1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey guys, welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: your Mind. This is Julie Douglas talking at you today. 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: Today's episode Objects of Love is an Encore presentation that 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: we're rolling out and dusting off, mainly because we just 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: laid out about five or so Valentine themed episodes, an 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: attempt to take love and lust down to the studs 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: for examination. So as a sort of palate cleanser, we 9 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: thought we'd offer up this episode on the stuff we 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: love and the reasons why we cling to it. So, 11 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: but don't worry, we are not going to take away 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: your woobi a K. You're blankie, So enough preamble. We 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: hope that you enjoy today's episode. Julie, do you have 14 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: any magical objects with you today? Any good luck charms, 15 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: any personal items of importance? I was thinking about this. 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: I'm not really into the sort of magical thinking lucky items. 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: I have to say. Yeah, yeah, called up your hands. 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: Do you have any rings on? Oh? You don't have 19 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: any rings on? Nothing? Nothing? Huh okay, Yeah, I mean 20 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: maybe I have my lucky underwear on. Maybe I don't 21 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: you I mean not underwear. No, well, I mean nothing. 22 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: Let's see what do I have? I mean right now, 23 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: I just I have my wedding ring, and I do 24 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: there's so there's a certain amount of magical thinking involved 25 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: in that. Do I have any No, I don't have 26 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: any aiments on me right now, but I in the past, 27 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: I've I've certainly fallen in the habit of using them. 28 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: I think I've talked about this before. I previously had 29 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: a Ganitia remover of obstacles, remover of obstacles, the Hindu 30 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: god that the is that has a the you know, 31 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: the elephant appearance, and I have featured on The Simpsons 32 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: in a hilarious episode. Yes, yes, also also made fun 33 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: of there. But I carried around because you know, remover 34 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: of obstacles and you know this various ties into ties 35 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: into creativity and all. And so I would carry that 36 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: in my pocket. And then eventually I lost it, like 37 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: it crawled out in the washing machine or something and 38 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: left me. And and so I've always felt I felt 39 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: kind of bad. I'm like, where did Ganesha go? Did 40 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: Ganesha abandon me? And then and then I found Ganesha 41 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: put him back in and then and then he disappeared 42 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: again and hasn't come back, and and also in the 43 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: past all occasionally like pick up a rock, Like if 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,119 Speaker 1: I'm at the beach and I'm having a particularly good day, 45 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: I'll pick up that rock and take it with me, 46 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: and That'll end up in my pocket for maybe a 47 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: year or so, um, you know, because that kind of 48 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: comes to symbolize like a nice memory, and so I 49 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: can take it out and I can sort of I 50 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: think back to that time. So what I'm hearing is 51 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: that you have various kinds of boobies. Yeah, security blankets. 52 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: Oh yes, yeah, I guess they are to a certain 53 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: extent security blanket. I mean they're not you know, apples 54 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: to apples, but there is the sort of warm and 55 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: fuzzy thing that you're trying to evoke with with an object, 56 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: right Yah. Yeah, I mean it's uh, I mean it's 57 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: weird for me because like when I'm if I'm holding 58 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: a ganitia, I don't actually think that I'm using this 59 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: as a totem to get in touch with some sort 60 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: of a god, you know, like it's not like a 61 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: literal interpretation of the amulet. But there is a certain 62 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: amount of positive thinking that that comes with having it. 63 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: And I've also wondered a lot of times when I'm 64 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: passing by my own desk or coworkers desks, or seeing 65 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: somebody's desk on on TV where they have action figures, 66 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: typically like a dude's desk, you know, have various action figures, 67 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: and I wondered, what extent are modern action figures? Kind 68 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: of akin to the amulets of old, you know, like 69 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: today we don't have a papion of God's to really 70 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: call upon for the most part, but instead we have 71 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: all these various pop culture icons and cartoon characters that 72 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: represent various things, at least on a subconscious level, and 73 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: we keep them around to draw strength from them. You 74 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: haven't found the Pantheon room, that just w Pantheon room. No, 75 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: do we have one? Oh my goodness, but to the 76 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: room with the black toilet and the black sink. Yeah, yeah, 77 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: the superhero bathroom. Okay, well, see I've been missing that. 78 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: But if you if you passed by my desk, you 79 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: passed by like Jonathan's Strickland's desk, you passed by is 80 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: the office, you'll see little little figures, you know. So 81 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: I wondered what I mean. Obviously, they're on our death, 82 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: they're in our workspace, there in our work environment, informing 83 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: you know, our our relationship with our with our work, 84 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: with with what we're trying to do with and and 85 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: representing a little bit of who we are. So to 86 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,559 Speaker 1: what extent are those becoming deities? I don't know? Well, okay, 87 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: so that's what we're going to try to get to 88 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: the bottom of today. We're gonna look at objects, our 89 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: relationship to objects, and we're going to try to figure 90 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: out how much of this has to do with our 91 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: own uh ability to acquire things, and whether or not 92 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: this acquisitiveness is natural to us. And then we're gonna 93 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: look a little bit at a compulsupporting too. When you 94 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: comes some materialism, it is really a distinctive human trait 95 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: for the most part, especially when you look at its 96 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: more outrageous examples. The one that I was really partial 97 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: to was the one I brought up by Steve Taylor 98 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: and his article The Madness of Materialism, which just a great, short, 99 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: little article, but he he mentions gold, especially the like 100 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: European colonists love of gold and UH and their clashes 101 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: with with the native people's in the America's UH There's 102 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: one example that he brings up where an Indian chief 103 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: in Cuba learned that the Spanish sailors were about to 104 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: tack his land, so he actually praised to the spirit 105 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: of the gold to for for a like they've become. 106 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: They're trying to figure out why of these one of 107 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: these these people so into gold, this this shiny rock 108 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: from the ground. They must have some sort of They 109 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: must believe it's a god. They must believe that it 110 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: is that has supernatural powers, because otherwise, why would you 111 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: go to such ridiculous ends, Why would you wage all 112 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: this bloodshed just to get it right? Because otherwise it's like, well, 113 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: you guys are just talking like ferret. It's going after 114 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: something shiny. So surely this piece of gold has something 115 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: to it, and he prayed to it right and it 116 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: didn't work. Didn't work because, as as he points out 117 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: in this article, Steve Tailor points up, a certain amount 118 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: of hoarding of resources makes evolutionary sense. You know, we've 119 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: talked before and in the while, there are certain things 120 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: that are scarce. I mean, food itself is going to 121 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: be scarce to varying degrees, and so to whatever degree 122 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: we can plan ahead that we can stockpile it, the 123 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: better off will be if that means bearing nuts in 124 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: the yard, if that means uh, you know, finding something 125 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: that is that is more rare in nature, like sugar 126 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: and being able to store that away like like all 127 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: that makes sense firewood. I mean, there are things that 128 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: are they're part of our survival that that that makes 129 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: sense when we're hoarding it. Well, it makes sense I 130 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: think to a culture that is settled. But if you 131 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: look at back at early man um in particularly the 132 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: fact that early Man was a nomadic species um then 133 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: you know that a hoarding or stockpiling just really wasn't convenient, 134 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: That's right. I mean, yeah, if you're always on the 135 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: mood move if you even if you have kind of 136 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: like cyclical uh patterns to your your movement and you know, 137 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: going from north to south depending on what the weather 138 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: is doing, Yeah, you're not gonna be able to carry 139 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: all of this with you. You can maybe stockpile some 140 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: of it, but you're not going to carry it all 141 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: on your back. Yeah. So there's this big question mark 142 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: like is this really genetic? Is this something that's natural 143 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: to humans, this impulse to buy and possess things, or 144 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: is it something that really is more symptomatic of modern man, 145 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: particularly from the nineteenth century on, right, when things became 146 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: much easier to produce, to produce cheaply, and then to 147 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: acquire cheaply. Yeah, And I mean when it comes to 148 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: stockpiling things that are important. I mean, when once we 149 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: get out of this, uh, this transitory nature of culture 150 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: and we get into into actually settling in areas and 151 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: growing food. I mean, being able to stockpile food. I 152 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: mean that's part and partial to a lot of our 153 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: cultural growth as as a as a species, our ability 154 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: to put food away, have more food than we need, 155 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: and then specialize our roles within a community. But what 156 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,679 Speaker 1: about just buying lots of plastic things, right and putting 157 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: them in a storage unit and then that storage and 158 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: it being auctioned off in a show called Storage Wars 159 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: or something like that, right, Yeah, Because yeah, then it 160 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: seems like we're definitely getting into pathological area. We're getting 161 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: into an area where it is just it is a sickness. 162 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: It is some natural instinct that has been perverted. Because 163 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: even even though the you know, the native peoples of 164 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: the Americas couldn't understand the less for gold. If you 165 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: put gold within the context of of wealth, and then 166 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: wealth equals power, wealth equals comfort, wealth equals food. Then 167 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: I can see the cognitive steps you know, necessary to 168 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: think I gotta have all the gold, right because I 169 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: have to possess the symbol of it, which is probably 170 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: a large part of why we do have this such 171 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: such a high degree of acquisitiveness, right, like wanting to 172 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: get acquire everything. Um. But you know, the question is 173 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: is it genetic? Well was a study by Justine Giddon's, 174 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: Julie Shermer and Philip Vernon from the University of Western Ontario, 175 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,599 Speaker 1: and they wanted to know how much of it was environmental, 176 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 1: how much of it which genetics. Of course, they turned 177 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: to the twins. They recruited two hundred and forty pairs 178 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: of twins identical and fraternal, and they looked at the 179 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: benchmark of individual differences um, personality, values, happiness, and we 180 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: know about forty percent of those traits are heritable. Right. 181 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: So to the surprise of these researchers, they found that 182 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: individual differences in materialism were almost entirely attributed to environmental 183 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: factors and not a genetic thing going on here. So 184 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: that kind of makes sense. Right, And that actually makes 185 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: sense to me in the context of hoarding, because, yes, 186 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: hoarding does have some pathological brain disorder elements to it, 187 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: but a lot of the triggers for hoarding our environmental. So, um, 188 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, if you had a loved one who recently 189 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: passed away or something that was life changing, that kind 190 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: of sort of flipped the switch and hoarding behavior. And 191 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: when I talk about hoarding behavior, I'm talking about an 192 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: excessive collection of objects. This is like one of those 193 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: things where it's like I must keep every newspaper that 194 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: has ever come out. And it's not just keep them, 195 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: but like if you were to be separated from those newspapers, 196 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: you would suffer, you would feel pain, you would you 197 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: would be confused, you'd have an inability to really make 198 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: clearheaded decisions about the sort of stuff in your life. Yeah, 199 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: and you've seen one of these shows. To me, that's 200 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: enough recording shows, because it can be a bit much 201 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: to take in that it can be. I mean, they're 202 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: they're kind of depressing, uh, But but I think I 203 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: saw one once where it was like food items and 204 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: it wasn't in a sense that like I need to 205 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: save all the sweet potatoes because I love sweet potatoes 206 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: and I need need to eat these sweet podata is later. 207 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: But it would be like, oh, the sweet potato looked 208 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: really good. This is a really cool looking sweet potata, 209 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: and like this weird emotional attachment to the sweet potato, 210 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: and then it must be kept even though it's rotting 211 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: in the refrigerator. Yeah. Well, it turns out that people 212 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: who have hoarding behavior or hoarding disorder, they actually have 213 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: a part of their brain. Um, this is an interior 214 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: singular cortex. This part of their brain is actually not 215 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: behaving the same way as quote unquote normal people because 216 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: that is the part of the brain that's actually governing 217 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: your decisions and re um some some impulse control yeah, um, 218 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: but primarily it's the decision making. And so if you 219 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: take people who have the hoarding disorder and you look 220 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: at them in m r I scans when they are 221 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: considering whether or not to part from an object that 222 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: they own, you'll see that You'll see the fuzzy nature 223 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: going on there, So you know that it is, um, 224 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: it is a brain disorder. It is this this part 225 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: of their brain that is saying, I just don't know 226 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: what to do here, and so it's not just like Okay, 227 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: I need to have everything in the world, or some 228 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: sort of gluttonous you know, void that they're trying to fill. 229 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: It really is coming from the decisions that their their 230 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: brain circuitry is making. And Um, this is I thought 231 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: this was really interesting when I found out about it. Um, 232 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: hoarding behavior actually has some connection, or a lot of 233 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: connection to narcissism. So you think about narcissism, and you 234 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: think about vanity, you think about narcissus, do you think 235 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: about the reflection in the pool captivated by one's appearance. 236 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: But it really is sort of a coping mechanism, and 237 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: I believe it was Dr Rebecca Beaten. She explained this 238 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: to me a couple of years ago when I interviewed 239 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: her um about hoarding. She told me that kids who 240 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: are feeling abandoned from their parents, or they don't have 241 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: a significant relationship with a parent or really any sort 242 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: of guardian in other words, they they're not getting that 243 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: emotional connection or even sort of the touch of the 244 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: hug or any of that, they begin to turn inward 245 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: and they began to become narcissists because they have to 246 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: find self comfort from themselves and some of that gets 247 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: attributed to objects, so then they began to collect objects. 248 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: Is this part of comfort? And that's where you see 249 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: the behavior played out. And of course this brings to 250 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: mind and the Peanuts character Linus and it's blanket, right, 251 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: his wooby, his his comfort blanket, his uh or if 252 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: you want to get into the more technical, his comfort object, 253 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: his transitional object, which is something you see with a 254 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of kids. I mean it's uh, 255 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: let's see, did I have now my now, my sister 256 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: definitely had a blanket called blank e and uh. And 257 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:23,599 Speaker 1: it got to the point where they ended up like 258 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: cutting off the edge of Blanky so that she could 259 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: continue to carry blankly around with her. And I think 260 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: she may still have I think she still keeps blankly around. Well, 261 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: you know, my daughter's four, and the same thing has 262 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: happened to her blanket. She calls it Blanky's blanky. Wait, now, 263 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: the part that came off she carries around is called 264 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: blank's blanky. So it's the blank like the shard of blanket. 265 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: It's all right, it's like a like it's kind of 266 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: like a religious artifact kind of. And she hides it 267 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: in her bed and she's really freaky about it, like 268 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: we can't find it. It's like blank is blanket? Well, 269 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: I mean to an uninformed observer, it could in a 270 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: little freaky because it's like, because it is kind of 271 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: borderline religious obsession, it may seem like. In fact, if 272 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: you go back to the nineteen forties, attachment to a 273 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: special object by a child was regarded as just pathological 274 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: behavior and it's just a case of childhood fetish reflecting 275 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: something askew in the mother child relationship. Yeah, it must 276 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: be doing something wrong because your kid has this gross 277 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: scrap of a blanket that they're carrying around. And I 278 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: think it's interesting that they look at it as a fetish, 279 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: particularly if you kind of take a wide angle view 280 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: of that period anyway, where you see a lot of 281 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: this idea as of fetish or fetishism coming out. Um. 282 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, it wasn't until the fifties right when they 283 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: started to say, you know what, this is actually a 284 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: normal thing. It's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah, people like DW. 285 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: Wincott started defining these as normal and necessary and as 286 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: a transitional experience. A key step in an infantsi ability 287 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: to distinguish this inner subjective world from the outside reality. 288 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: So you know, through the even through the seventies and eighties, 289 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: there was still this sort of people are still clinging 290 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: to this old notion that it's there's something wrong that 291 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: the kid has some you know, some anxiety problems or something, 292 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: and that's why they're holding onto it. But but really, 293 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: the the the academic understanding of it was was pretty 294 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: much in place, yeah, because it began to understand that 295 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: this could really help allay some of the fears, um 296 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: some of the anxieties that children have. Of course they 297 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: haven't because remember they have an entirely new view of life, 298 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: so they have to categorize every loud sound, every image 299 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: and try to make sense of it. Is it a threat? 300 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: Is it not a threat? And so this transitional object 301 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: really does help because it is sort of like the 302 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: stand in for, you know, a parental unit or something else. 303 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: There's a study by G. J. Bara, R. H. Passman, 304 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: and C. Eisenberg, and they found that during a routine 305 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: third year pediatric examination, the security object enhanced rapport with 306 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: the examining nurse, and then children attached to a blanket 307 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: who were allowed access to it were rated as less 308 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: distressed and they experienced less physiological stress um and that 309 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: is evidenced by the heart rate and the systolic blood press. Sure, 310 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: so this is in contrast to kids who are undergoing 311 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: medical evaluate evaluation without their woobies. Really yeah, and certainly 312 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: these woobies, um, as you said that they can end 313 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: up becoming like an important parenting tool, I understand as well. 314 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're, if you're, you use it wisely, right, 315 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: I mean it's I guess it's powerful stuff to play with, 316 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: But I was reading about how you know a parent 317 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: can can use it to their advantage, and a kid 318 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: needs the movie too to remain comfortable in a position 319 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: when the mother is away. I think it's really important 320 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: to um, like around age one and so on and 321 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: so forth, when when they start to feel the separation anxiety, 322 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: as you say, like leaving the house or even just 323 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: sleeping at night, I think having something to grab onto 324 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: is really important. One of the interesting things about studying 325 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: transitional objects is that is that there's ultimately a kind 326 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: of a lack of uniformity in the definition of it 327 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: and also the cultural significance of it. Like some of 328 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: the cultural stats are pretty interesting, like um, the United 329 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: the States sixty of children have at least a mild 330 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: degree of attachment to some sort of soft and animal object. 331 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: And I think, looking back, I did have I had 332 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: a stuffed rhinoceros named RINCHI that I would had an 333 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: attachment to um. But but I don't know. Then you're 334 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: getting into like stuffed animals. You're getting into a whole 335 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: different area because those have personality. I don't know. Does 336 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: Blankie or does Blankie's Blankie have a personality? Do you think, well, 337 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: sometimes Blanky's Blankie gets in trouble or does things like 338 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: takes all the toilet paper off the toilet roll or 339 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: something like that. But um, generally, I think that's just 340 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: general scoundrelness right now. Well, okay, so anyway, six children 341 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: in the US have some sort of mild degree exhibit 342 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: strong attachment. But then if you look at incidences of 343 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: attachment in the Netherlands and New Zealand and Sweden, that's 344 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: that's comparable to the United States. Korean children have substantially 345 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: fewer attachments to blankets down to eight uh that compared 346 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: to American children, but in Korean born children living in 347 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: the United States to play an intermediate percentage of thirty 348 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: four five percent of rural Italian children have transitional objects 349 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: compared tot of urban Italians, and it goes as far 350 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: as the sixty two of foreign children living in Rome. 351 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: So don't you just see the stats I guess kind 352 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: of skewing towards urban areas. Yeahs say, that's interesting to 353 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: see that it can be. You know, within one country 354 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: you could have such a so many different variables there 355 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: and oh but in London, just six of children have 356 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: a special security object in there. That's London, So there 357 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: goes the urban argument. So it's just it's it's hard 358 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: to find the exactly what's going on. There's just so 359 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: many cultural factors to look at the I guess well, 360 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: and you have to wonder too if if part of 361 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: that is just to say, like, that's not as accepted 362 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: and therefore maybe in that culture it's not as encouraged, 363 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: or it's not maybe as prominent, people don't see it 364 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: as much, yeah, or maybe there's less of a culture 365 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: of these are my objects and these are your objects, 366 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: and it's more these are our objects. You know. Some 367 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: of this had to do with memory to write, like 368 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: they would go back and say, oh, did I have 369 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: an object that I was connected to, and so they're 370 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: collecting some of this data from faulty memory where people 371 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: are saying yes or no and they couldn't exactly remember. 372 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: I also want to point out too that you know, 373 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: transitional object is very different from a pacifier, And of 374 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 1: course a pacifier is something that's used to self soothe 375 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: and babies, but I kind of think of it as 376 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: gum for babies. You know, it's an activity to to 377 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: try to help them with their eventual um eating skills, uh, 378 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: they're swallowing skills, and it kind of helps keep them 379 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: occupied if they're hungry and you're trying to prepare a 380 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: bottle or something like that. But it is very different 381 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: in terms of comfort. All Right, we're gonna take a 382 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: quick break, Okay, so we're back, yeah, and we're going 383 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: to get into the realm of magical thinking. This is 384 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: charactery that we've we've moved through many times before that it 385 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: it continues to be important because it really does deal 386 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: with how we think about the world and versus how 387 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: the world really is. I mean we Magical thinking, of course, 388 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: is the belief that an object, action, or circumstance not 389 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: logically related to a course of events can influence its outcome. 390 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: So in magical thinking, you get into all these ideas 391 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: of of everything from a haunted house, the idea that, oh, 392 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: something bad happened here, so now something is bad with 393 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: the house, you know, like the idea that that that 394 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: that an event can affect the physical object, or even 395 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: like mere mementos. I mean I've mentioned my father's watch before, 396 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: you know, like obviously that's that's something that has significance 397 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: to me. And there's a certain amount of magical thinking 398 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: involved there. Um, you know, even if it's at a 399 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: subconscious level, even if I'm not thinking, oh this this 400 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: has the spirit of my dad, and I think, oh 401 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: that's that is that was his watch, and there is 402 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: some sense of him about it. So magical thinking kind 403 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: of uh, you know, is intertwined in all our lives, uh, 404 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: to varying degrees, and you know, be a conscious or subconscious. 405 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: One of the more more conscious ways, of course, is 406 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: with the idea of a lucky charm. Yeah. And uh, 407 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: there's something called apophenia, and that is seeing patterns where 408 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: there are none, and that is a little bit of 409 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: the suit based two magical thinking, right, because again, if 410 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: you let's say you're wearing something and something great happens, 411 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: you think, oh, those are those lucky socks. I must 412 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: wear them every time that I have to do this 413 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: certain challenge, and began to to make this causal connection. 414 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: But then there's always that difference between oh, I've got 415 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: a big interview, I'm gonna wear those lucky socks of mine. 416 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: There's that, and then there's these are my lucky socks. 417 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 1: I must wear them every day, and they must never 418 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: be washed, or they must be washed exactly eight times 419 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: to contain their their magic, you know. I mean there's 420 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: a line between the sort of helpful magical thinking and 421 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: UH and and and helpful lucky charm and belief to UH. 422 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: And then there's then there's a whole realm of pathology 423 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: I guess a little O. C. D in a way, right, 424 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: so called adventitious reinforcing. And then it is making that 425 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: connection and then keep you know, doing whatever that ritual 426 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: is over and over again so that you can hopefully, 427 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: you know, evoke those spirits of magic to help you 428 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: in your quest. So has anyone studied lucky charms? Of course? 429 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: Well not the cereal. The cereal that's a whole different 430 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: kettle of fish. But but yes, as far as studying 431 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: the effects that lucky charms lucky objects have on us, uh, 432 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: there's a really cool study from the University of Cologne 433 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 1: in two thousand ten, and uh. They started off with 434 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: just golf. They they invited these test subjects to come 435 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: and uh and see how many of tin puts they 436 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: can make from the same location. And when the experiment 437 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: has handed them a golf ball, they would they would 438 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: sometimes just give them a ball and say, hey, everyone's 439 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: used this ball so far. You know, no big deal. 440 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: Here's a golf ball. Why don't you hit it and 441 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: see what I'll go in that hole over there. And 442 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: then sometimes they said, hey, this ball, all this must 443 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: be a lucky ball. This one, this one's really worked 444 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: well for people. And then they they analyzed it. They 445 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: let everyone play a little golf see what happened, and 446 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: the mere suggestion that the ball was lucky significantly influenced performance, 447 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: causing participants to make almost two more puts on average. 448 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: See this is where like when David Eagleman says like, 449 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: we don't have any free will, I began to really 450 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: sort of say, you know, he might be onto something, 451 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: because the mere suggestion that it's lucky would actually have 452 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: some sort of bearing on your performance. That's crazy, you know. 453 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: So of course they weren't going to stop just there, 454 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: because generally, if you have a scientific experiment, if you 455 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: have a study going on, and it begins and ends 456 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: with people just playing golf one afternoon, you know that's 457 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: probably not enough. You need to push it a little 458 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: a little further. So what they did is they had 459 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: test subjects come in and they had them them bring 460 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: lucky artifacts with them, you know, be at their their 461 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: old inky or they're you know like me. You know, 462 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: I forgot about this. I always bring this uh Tristeratops 463 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: squeeze toy into the office with me. It's true, yeah, 464 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: And I don't think of it as a lucky charm. 465 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: I think of it more it's like something to occupy 466 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: my hand when I'm feeling kind of podcast without it. 467 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: I don't podcast without it. So there's a certain amount 468 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: of magical thinking involved, their certain amount of good luck 469 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: charm going on with that Tristeratops. So anyway, they invited 470 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: people to bring in their tri steretops toys. They're they're lucky, 471 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: you know, four leaf clovers, what have you and uh. 472 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: And then they started the tests. They assigned them to 473 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: either a condition where they would be performing a task 474 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: in the presence of their charm or in absence of 475 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: their charm and uh. And then the participants rated their 476 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: perceived level of self efficiency and then completed a memory 477 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: task that was essentially a variant of the you know, 478 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: the classic card game concentration. So psychologist Lisa and Tomish 479 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: she found that those people who had they're lucky charms, 480 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: they were doing a couple of things here to improve 481 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: their performance, because really it does improve your pose. And 482 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 1: they found once again, if they had their lucky charms 483 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: on hand, they did better. Yes, they were setting loftier 484 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: goals from for themselves, and then they were exhibiting increased 485 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: persistence right they were they did not give up as 486 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: easily because they felt bolstered by these lucky charms. Yeah, 487 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty crazy. I mean, it's the idea that 488 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: the so here's the try sarratops squishy in my hand 489 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: and bringing in I'm thinking, well, I've got to try 490 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: saratops with me. I'm gonna you know, I'm not just 491 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: gonna go for normal. I'm gonna shoot for higher because 492 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: I've got this, I've got the power up in my hand. Well, 493 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna stay to it more because because 494 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: because my I'm focusing with my attention, I have the 495 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: the symbol of my my commitment with me as well. Well, 496 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: here's where the fun house mirror shutters. If you are 497 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: aware of this effect, then supposedly this no longer works anymore. 498 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: If you become conscious that you are attributing magical qualities 499 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: to an object, then it's supposedly is not going to 500 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: be effective, you know. And I don't really I don't 501 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: really buy that part of the study. Well, I think 502 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: it depends. I think that this depends on the individual, 503 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: because for my own part, I find myself able to 504 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: drift in and out of believing in things depending on 505 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: what my day to day outlook is and depending on, 506 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: you know, how I want to view the world, Like 507 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: I find myself able to, to a certain extent, you know, 508 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: engage in the belief that an object might have some 509 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: sort of you know, luck, or believe in some varying 510 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: levels of spirituality depending on on how I'm viewing the day. 511 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: So I can imagine somebody, you know, logically knowing that 512 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 1: something is just a piece of metal, but then still 513 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: buying into it enough to get that effect out of it. Well, 514 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: I think that's because you have a creative, fiction twisted 515 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: mind that's been trained that way, so you can, I think, 516 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: dive into magical thinking very easily, yeah, and then still 517 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: be hanging out with reality. But I don't. I'm not 518 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: unique in that, and that that that people so, so 519 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: I think the study is fascinating. That I do. I 520 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: do kind of disagree on that part um about the 521 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: idea that just merely by listening to this podcast we 522 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: have deactivated all of your lucky charms out there, I 523 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: mean some of you, if you're the right kind of person, 524 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: that we just totally zapt all of your your magic 525 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: do dads? Sorry about that? Yeah, all right, So let's 526 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: change the subject and close this podcast out on Ikea, 527 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: because I kea. What is this but the the iconic 528 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: symbol of all objects known to man that can be 529 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: acquired by man, right right, And of course the thing 530 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: we always come back to with Ikea anytime we're talking 531 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: about I Kea, anytime we're we're thinking about Ikea, and 532 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about in the podcast, but just in general, 533 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: all of us is the the assembly of these items. 534 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: They come with the really well do well designed graphically instructions, 535 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: and you bring them home and you try to make 536 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: sense out of them, and then you take one or two, 537 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: three or four goes that assembling it correctly penally. With 538 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 1: some there's a little bit it's like going through a 539 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: maze because you end up betting a dead corner and 540 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: then you realize, oh, I already used those screws in 541 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: the wrong spot. Let's see if they can actually be 542 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: removed without destroying the product? Is that little is it? 543 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: The l Is that a Elan wrench? Yeah? Okay, that 544 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: thing is ridiculous to me because you have this, You 545 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 1: have all these pieces in front of you, and then 546 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: you have this tiny little Alan wrench that's supposed to 547 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: do the job. Well, you can get a screw driver 548 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: with the Alan. Well, power tools always come out. That's 549 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: the joke of it, right, And I feel like the 550 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: the little man that is that is the symbol of 551 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: the person that's supposed to be you is overly comical too. 552 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: And it's sort of like this commentary on the whole process. 553 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: I think he's supposed to be kind of disarming as well, 554 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: when you reach the frustration point with it. I see 555 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: his passage as being mocking. He's laughing at you. You're 556 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: just sitting in the living room floor, just surrounded by 557 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: half a symboled furniture. Yeah, yeah, beating away. Yeah, I 558 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: mean I have, I have. There have been times when 559 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,239 Speaker 1: I've been a sibling like kea furniture, and I love 560 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: I keya furniture, but there have been times when I've 561 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: been assembling it where I've just about lost my mind. Well, see, 562 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: I think that is what plays into this whole idea 563 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: of this I key effect, right, right, And this is 564 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: the idea ultimately, it's the idea that if we build 565 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: something ourselves, even if it's crap, we care more about it. 566 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: And you we've all encountered this with people. You know, 567 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: it's anybody that knows somebody who engages in a bit 568 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: of of art, a bit of creative endeavor would be 569 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: it be it be it somebody who's really good at it, 570 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: or you know, someone who's new to to the practice. 571 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: There's a tendency to to love your own work even 572 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: when it's not good. Well, I mean you see this 573 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: in fiction writing a lot, right when you're going through 574 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: the editing process. Is that what it was the term 575 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: kill your children. You don't want to do it, kill 576 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: you darlings. You don't want to to This is your 577 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: creation and it doesn't fit in and it doesn't really 578 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: even matter to the plotline anymore. But it's very hard 579 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: to get rid of those things. Yeah, I mean, it's 580 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: it's why you need an outsider to come in and 581 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: look at your stuff. That's the beauty of the editor. Um, 582 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: you know, that's why you know I have awesome ladder 583 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: milk around to edit my work for the website, because 584 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: otherwise stuff would remain in there that really needs to 585 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: be cut. He needs you need a hard, cruel louder milk. 586 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: She is not cruel to come in and and and 587 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,239 Speaker 1: take out all the unimportant organs, just rip them right 588 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: out of the body. Yeah, you do need someone putting 589 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: in comments next you work, saying hey, what's up with this? Yeah? 590 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: But see this is this really interesting of the Ikea 591 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: effect is that you know in the NPR story about 592 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: this called Why You Left, that I keep it a 593 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: keya table even if it's crooked. Um, they're saying that 594 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: people don't have this editor coming in and you see 595 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: this in company, see people getting really tied to this 596 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: idea of what a product is or what it is 597 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: that they're making is sometimes it's two years in the make. Yeah, 598 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: you're putting just loads of time and energy into it, 599 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: and you're just you're just you're in the jungle with it. 600 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: You're in the jungle. And then someone from the outside 601 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: comes in and goes, it's crooked. Yeah, you know, um, 602 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: and that you need that, you need you need that 603 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: sort of fresh perspective. So that's helpful. I mean, we're 604 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: we've kind of transitioned away from objects more into um 605 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: philosophy here. But hey, mean, isn't that what objects are 606 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: doing in the first place. They're just metaphors for us. Really. Yeah, 607 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: So the study was big on stressing that that building 608 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: your own stuff boost your feeling of pride and competence 609 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: signals to others that you were competent, which I think 610 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: is is good as well and reminds me of that 611 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: decent the Portlandia sketch. Did you see this with the 612 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: the duty to builds his own furniture? No? I didn't 613 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: see that one. He's he's like the all the women 614 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 1: want to date him and marry him and they can 615 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: make make him their own because they learned, oh, he 616 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: makes his own furniture, you know, because like it's you know, 617 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: it's just the perfect thing, right, But then they find 618 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: out that he makes really crappy furniture that he just 619 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: doesn't realize it. So so it kind of fits in 620 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: with what we're talking about. But the third thing that 621 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: they found in the study that was interesting was that, uh, 622 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: this is direct quote from the study, threatening consumers sense 623 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: of self increases the propensity to make things themselves. So 624 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: the idea to the idea here that the author talks 625 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: about in this this article is that theoretically, if you 626 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: were to provide a visitor to Ikea with a really 627 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,959 Speaker 1: difficult math problem to you know, to really bust them 628 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: down a few chops and make them make them feel 629 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: kind of stupid, then let them into Ikea, they're going 630 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: to be even more into the idea of buying something 631 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: and building it themselves so they can make good again. 632 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: So because they their ego has been taken down a 633 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: couple of notches, and then if they can just assemble something, 634 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: they can regain that ye idea. I think so because 635 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's kind of like anything. You know, 636 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: whenever you're logged in a in a process that is 637 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: just seemingly never ending, that you don't really feel like 638 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: there's a sense of completion, or you have one of 639 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: those days where you work on eighteen different things and 640 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: finish none of them. Like what you really want to 641 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: do is is nail something you want to say, I 642 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: went home and I made a girl cheese from start 643 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: to finish and then I ate it case close close 644 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: that loop. Well that would get you a lot of ladies. 645 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: Hey he makes cheese. He makes cheese. Yeah, well not 646 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: from start to finish, not making your own bread and cheese, 647 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: so that would be impressive as well. But yeah, yeah, 648 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. This is what the author was saying, 649 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: is that maybe Ikea could start to game their customers 650 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: to their advantage and give them these math problems or 651 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: just put up big placards that say, like, you know, 652 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: you're awful and lousy. To put some furniture together, you 653 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: feel better. Yeah, I mean some people love it. I 654 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: know people that are just in love with the idea 655 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: of putting together furniture. Well, ikea Hacker is a great 656 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: website to seeing what people do to to sort of 657 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: change the the or to make it more unique, or 658 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, try to game the furniture to havn't have 659 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: another purpose. I've been saying for a while that IKEA 660 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: needs to do like a game show where the teams 661 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: of of IKEA hackers have to like compete against each other, 662 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: and maybe they're having to do a symbol furniture in 663 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,479 Speaker 1: weird places, like you know, in a hot air balloon 664 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: around the subway. But my boy, I think you something there. 665 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: Yeah did that sound like nineteen Yeah? A little bit, 666 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: a little bit right, So there you go. Objects um, 667 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: a little insight into why we've surround ourselveselves with so 668 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 1: much stuff while it's so important. And I was really 669 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: I was really interested in you know, we're talking about 670 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: that that space, that that that your mind occupies, That 671 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: that moment when you're holding something in your hand and 672 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: trying to decide whether you can part with it and 673 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: throw it away or if it has value that and 674 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: needs to be held and maintained like that, That to 675 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: me is a very interesting frame of mind um to occupy. 676 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: I mean, we've all been there, and uh and and 677 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: and we all kind of skew different ways. I think 678 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: when when faced with that situation, some of us will 679 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: just throw stuff away at the drop of the hat. 680 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: My my wife is one and and she's been a 681 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: good influence on me and making me more susceptible to 682 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: getting rid of things instead of keeping them around needlessly. 683 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: So you just have boxes of notes and stuff. Yeah, 684 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: you know. Um, if I'm in a store, which don't 685 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 1: really shop that much, but if I'm in their store 686 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,919 Speaker 1: and I see something I fancy, I actually will carry 687 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: it around for about fifteen minutes to see whether or 688 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 1: not I actually wanted. In nine out of ten times 689 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: I put it back. Thank you for joining us today 690 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,879 Speaker 1: in this episode. We hope this uh stoke some thought 691 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: about your own material possession from what they mean to you. 692 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: And if you're interested in learning more about some of 693 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: the themes covered today, like say magical thinking, you can 694 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: check out stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. It's 695 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: our online hub for past and present podcast episodes, videos, 696 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: and blog posts all related to what we explore here 697 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: in this podcast. And if you have thoughts on the 698 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,280 Speaker 1: objects in your life that bring you them with pleasure 699 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: or even discomfort, we'd like to hear about them. You 700 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: can send your words our way by emailing us at 701 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind at? How supports dot com 702 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics. Does 703 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: it has? Stuff works dot Com? Could you leave you 704 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:01,800 Speaker 1: to me?