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What's the real story behind 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.720 the Mona Lisa, We've got that. What caused the collapse 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.480 of Rome? We know? Where? Did we find Mankind's earliest ancestor? 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.720 Come find out? From Egypt to Weinstein. Curiosity Stream is 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.200 the place for history with monthly, annual, and bundled plans. 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:02.200 Find one for you at curiosity stream dot com. Welcome 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.920 to the Piked and Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:09.160 Katie Studios. I gotta tell you from kind of a 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:14.000 visceral standpoint, when I heard the news that this kid 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:18.400 had rolled over on this case, one thing that kind 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:22.640 of came to mind for me is, you know, I 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:27.680 kind of envisioned his mother in almost a mob Barker 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.520 kind of way, that she's kind of the puppet master 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:38.840 that's controlling everything. He's sitting there all along, and suddenly 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.760 he has this lucid moment where he's out from under 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:47.440 that thob and he realizes, I'm going to get the 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:54.639 needle for all of this. This is the Piked and 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:59.800 Massacre Returned to Pike County Season two, Episode three, Wagner 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:04.480 Versus Wagner. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.480 Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. On April twenty second, 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.000 twenty twenty one, Jake Wagner pleaded guilty to eight aggravated 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.480 murder charges in the Rodent family massacre. As part of 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.040 his plea deal, he implicated his mother, Angela Wagner, father 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:23.000 Billy Wagner, and brother George Wagner as co conspirators in 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.520 the killings. He's also agreeing to testify against his parents 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.919 and brother, who are also charged in these murders. Here's 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:33.440 reporter Anteinette Levy. I don't believe anybody knew he was 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.640 going to do this, so it's it's a pretty stunning development. 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.840 To see Jake Wagner, the youngest of the entire family, 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.400 who would you would think would be, you know, maybe 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.400 the most pliable in some respects because he is the youngest. 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.200 But to see him just break away from his family, 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:56.560 I don't know, it's it's pretty interesting. The significance of 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:00.080 Jake Wagner folding on his family cannot be overstated. But 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.160 what does it mean moving forward? Criminal defense attorney Mike 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.840 Allen told Stephanie that it could signal an impending legal 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.800 chess match in terms of Jake Wagner's admission of guilt, 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.680 I'm just curious about what that means altogether. He's confessed 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:17.760 to killing five of the eight rodents. Personally, is he 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.800 trying to save himself or trying to save his family? 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.320 You know, obviously, you know if he did five out 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:25.839 of eight, you still have three left, and you know 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.080 it'll come out who who actually did the killing on 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:33.840 those other three, But it was probably a strategic move 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.320 on the prosecutor's part not to let that out yet. 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.279 And you know a prosecutor is not going to show 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.120 his cards, or in this case, she Angie when't. She's 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.960 got three other defendants to try, so they're still going 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:50.040 to hold it close to the vest I think. Stephanie 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.880 asked reporter James Pilcher if there were still moves left 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.360 for Jake to play, Is it possible that he'll say 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.360 that Jacob could say I was in a very controlling environment. 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:03.120 My mother, Angela Wagner, controlled us, My father was a 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:07.080 bully and said I had to do these things, and 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.880 we were coerced into it. Is there any value in 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.800 that even? I mean, that's entirely possible, and some of 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.400 the reporting that's what we've heard. Leekal. The other thing 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.320 I will say is that maybe they're going after bigger 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.600 game than Jake, and they figured we'll cut this deal. Now, 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.040 he'll give us what we want and then we can 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.920 go get the mom and the dad. But clearly they 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:29.560 were going after the people who plotted it. This was 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.440 not Jake's idea, right, or at least not according to 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.479 the prosecutors. This was the family coming together. That's what 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.560 the prosecutors are after, is that, Okay, we get Jake 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.359 to help us, we get Jake to plead out. It 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.320 shows that this really did happen. Now we can go 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.440 after the people who actually planned it. On April twenty eighth, 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.600 just six days after Jake Wagner's hearing, his accused brother 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.760 George Wagner, walked into the Pike County Courthouse. The first 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.400 court hearing since last week's surprise plea deal and the 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.159 Pike County murder trials took place today. This hearing for 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.680 George Wagner was supposed to center on a few defense 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:07.119 emotions involving discovery evidence. Annette Levy was on the scene 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.200 that day. She spoke to producer Chris Graves. He kind 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.520 of described the mood and what was going on. The 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.279 mood was a lot lighter than it had been in 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.440 the past. The Roden family is a little bit that 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.279 I saw of them. They just seemed happy for the 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:20.919 first time in a long time. And I think I 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.360 saw Hannah Gilly's mother and she actually seemed happy and 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.200 they can start to finally look fithered. So it was 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.159 just a much lighter mood, But you know George the Fourth, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.440 obviously it wasn't a lighter mood for him. He looked 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.760 very stressed, He looked very thin. He doesn't look good. 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.800 You can see it on his face. In the aftermath 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.320 of Jake Wagner's shocking confession, many wondered how accused older 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:46.479 brother George Wagner's hearing would play out. We spoke at 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.200 length about George in the last two episodes. It was 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.240 at his wedding that the last known picture of the 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.839 Roden and Wagner families was taken. Also, George and his 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.720 ex wife dealt with eerily similar custody issues that would 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.360 foreshadow what would happen between victim Hannah Rowden and Jake Wagner. 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:06.320 His lawyer, Rick Nash, has been very assertive and maintained 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.800 that George the fourth there was no case against him, 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.920 that there was no evidence against him. But now he's 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.720 kind of having to swallow his pride a little bit. 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.800 I think and realize that there may be some really 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:21.920 good evidence tying his client to this and this emotion 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.160 hearing was for like all these boilerplate death penalty emotions, 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:30.360 death penalty's off the table now, people following the case, 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.200 wondered would George Wagner strike a plea deal as well. 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.960 My opinion of George the fourth is that he's kind 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.160 of is the weakest link in this family because he's 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.520 got the most to lose. He has a son who 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:48.119 he loves dearly, and he wants to be with his son. 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.960 And so I was wondering, what's George going to do? 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.320 Instead of a guilty plead, the court heard something far 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.000 less dramatic. It took us in five minutes for George 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.280 wage to the fourth to ask for more time to 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:08.360 evaluate the situation. No, Judge, I don't think so. I 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.360 think everybody's agreed that, given recent events, that everybody needs 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.240 to step back and reassess. The hearing concluded with an 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:20.160 agreement to reschedule the motion for June twenty first, twenty one. 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.440 Though there were no bombshell developments, it's clear that the 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.240 next few weeks will be pivotal. George Wagner and his 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.800 accused parents, Angela and Billy Wagner must now decide how 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.240 they will proceed. Do you think that it's possible that 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.599 now that Jake took the plea deal and admitted to 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.400 the murders that we may see Billy Angela and or 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.440 George doing this same thing. I think it's possible that 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:43.800 the others could plead out. But at the same time, 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.839 what's the point They have nothing to lose by going 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:51.040 to trial, because they either to plead out get life 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.440 in prison, or they roll the dice and go to 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:58.240 trial and maybe they can hang a jury. As Mike 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.960 g Allen points out, there's no one case that assures 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.440 a conviction. Is there any version of this where one 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:08.240 of them is found guilty and the other are found innocent. 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.040 It's possible, Yeah, I mean, it just it all depends 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.600 on what the individual juries want to do. Yeah, I mean, 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.440 that's very possible, and it's happened on trials that where 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.800 they're two defendants that have been severed, where one has 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.320 found guilty and the other one is not. You know, 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.880 different juries are different and it'll be a different jury 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:33.840 for every one of these trials. And lawyers will tell you, 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:38.160 especially criminal lawyers, you never know what is going to 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.800 happen with the jury. And I've been at this for 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:46.880 forty years and juries are becoming even more unpredictable. I 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.000 don't know why, but they are but in answer to 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:54.120 your question, yeah, that's a possibility. Last episode, we heard 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.439 Bureau of Criminal Investigation agent Ryan Scheiderer testify about the 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.040 Wagner's cult like family done Ammock. They're very close. They 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.719 lived together, they've always lived together. Their finances are intermingled, 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.520 the homeschool together, they raised their kids together. Everything is 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:13.319 done together. As well as we have an informant who 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.720 says that every decision within that family is made as 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:21.000 a family decision. Without any of the other Wagners coming 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.080 forward with plea deals, there are still a lot of 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.480 questions that need to be answered about the family that 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.559 is alleged to have carried out Ohio's most notorious crime. 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.560 It's worth noting that while Jake Wagner pleaded guilty, Angela 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.400 Billy and George Wagner have pleaded not guilty. The state 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.880 is kind of maintained that each person in this conspiracy 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.360 had their own role, They had their own kind of 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.760 part to play, and you know, it's going to be 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:49.600 interesting to see how strong the evidence is to support 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.280 their assertion that each person had a role in this conspiracy. 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.280 At this point, one thing is clear. Jake Wagner holds 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.280 the fate of his family in his hands, and the 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.640 united front the Wagner family has built is beginning to erode. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.360 How it will all unfold is anyone's guests. Remember, we 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.000 don't know exactly what Jake said and how he said it. 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.720 We just know that he confessed and led them to evidence. 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:15.720 So there's still a lot we don't know based on 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:19.800 what the prosecution outlined in court. So let's take a 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:21.719 look at the evidence we know about based on what 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.800 we've heard through preliminary hearings over the past three years. 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.199 One of the most informative was a hearing for accused 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.080 brother George Wagner that took place on August thirty first, 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:35.280 twenty twenty. That day, George's attorneys requested that he be 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.240 allowed to post bail, arguing that there was no evidence 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:41.120 to tie him to the case, and natte Levy was 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.040 at the Pike County courthouse that day. It was actually 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.559 a fool's errand because in the state of Ohio, someone 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.360 charged with aggravated murder in which the death county is 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.840 sought can be held without bail automatically. There's really no 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:57.040 question about it. So they were kind of wanting to 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.360 I think get some more information about the evidence in 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.600 the case. The BCI agent on the case, the lead agent, 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.319 Ryan Scheiderer, took the stand and answered a series of 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.760 questions about the evidence in the case that they have 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:14.000 against George. Swear testimony. You were about gearge of its 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:22.160 three the whole pie. That special Agent Ryan Scheiterer of 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.160 the Bureau of Criminal Investigation taking his oath in court. 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.520 During the hearing, George Wagner's attorney tried to distance his 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.199 client from the crime and his accused family. His attorney 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.240 had set something to the effect of the evidence, you know, 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.400 if it tied anybody to this, it was Jake and 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:41.680 Angela and not George. What text or digital communications did 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.439 you find too or from him? If you think is 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:50.240 relevant specifically about text messages with George, I don't remember any. 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.160 Did you collect a cell phone from George? I don't 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.920 believe we ever collected George celler What connection does George 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.960 had to do with that Laftime? The device was registered 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.440 to Jake, but specifically Angela, who seemed to be the 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:08.240 primary user of that laptop. But there was some evidence 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.160 that implicated George Wagner along with his brother Jake in 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.320 the crimes. One of the most striking parts of Agent 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.880 Scheider's testimony had to do with the type of guns 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.280 used in the homicides. We know the three calibers of 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.080 firearms that were used to give them these murders, and 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:28.040 they were a twenty two caliber long rifle, a forty 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:32.000 caliber and a thirty caliber. Scheiderer went on to make 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.080 a direct correlation between the twenty two caliber shell casings 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.720 found at victims Dana Roden and Frankie Roden's homes and 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.679 the property owned by the Wagner family. Here's Agent Scheiterer 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.760 being questioned by Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa. We recovered twenty two 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.640 caliber shell casings and where we recovered those which at 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.199 two sixty Peterson Road, which was a property that was 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:57.760 owned by George Wager and his brother Jake. And were 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.720 those shell casings submitted to the last for comparison to 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.800 the shell casings that have been recovered from both Frankie's 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:12.640 and Dana's residences. Yes, and what was the opinion of 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:17.080 the The weapon that fired the shell casings at two 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:22.240 sixty Pierson Road also fired the shell casings at Anna's 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.680 and Dana's residence as well. As Frankie and Hannah Gillis residence. 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.000 So the same firearm had been fired on the same properties. Okay, 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.800 so the exact same gun, not just the same type 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:41.440 of the same firearms, okay. Forensic expert Joseph Morgan explained 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.600 the intricate science involved in tying a shell casing back 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.360 to a specific gun. The inside of a handgun like 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.520 this has got rifling. That means it's got lands, which 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:56.360 are kind of flat plateau looking formations. And also because 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:01.040 these are soft metal brass casings that are being ejected 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.960 once the round is fired, you have what are referred 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:08.040 to as extraction marks this spent case, and it leaves 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.360 these little marks that are unique to the interior housing 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.360 of this particular weapon. And even you can have a 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:19.280 weapon that rolls off the line with fifty other weapons 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.400 that are the same same model, but they're all going 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:26.120 to be unique at a microscopic level, and that's how 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:31.280 they tied back the projectile to a specific weapon. Another 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.080 suspicious item was found during a different search of the 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:38.920 same Wagner property. The police went back and they found 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:43.120 what the ATF says was likely used as a homemade 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:49.840 silencer for a gun agent Scheierer elaborated recovered a maglite 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:55.160 flashlight turned into a suppressor. Yeah, adapter at one end 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.400 that as a solid adapter, they closed in and they 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.760 at the other end you add a thread adapter and 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:06.800 it's designed to catch cleaning solvent when you're cleaning your firearm, 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.600 but it can easily be converted into a suppressor. They 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.000 determined that it was a suppressor as defined by federal statue, 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:16.760 been fired at least one time because they could see 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:21.000 a bull of striking inside the suppressor. Thing. That was 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.600 pretty interesting because that wasn't found. That was found in 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.440 I think October of twenty eighteen, right before the indictments 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.360 came out, and that property, the Peterson Road home had 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.480 been searched in May of twenty seventeen. I mean, when 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.600 I hear that, it sounds like someone told them about it. 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.520 We know, but Jake led them to the guns, the 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.920 murder weapons, the car used purchased and news and so 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:50.640 who knows. Maybe. During cross examination by George Wagner's attorney, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.560 Agent Scheiterer highlighted some of the other evidence the state 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:58.480 has on George, including wiretap surveillance. Could you approximate to 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:03.960 the nearest hundred of how many hours you have regarding 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:11.960 this recording of George Wagner? Hours? Not really, but I 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:16.359 would say over one hundred, one hundred days, over a 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.520 hudred days, okay, And so I want you to focus 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.400 on those hundred days, and maybe your answer is the same, 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.000 but I'm going to ask it a different way. Could 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.840 you tell us over that one hundred days of recording 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:32.560 George Wagner one statement he made that you recorded that 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.840 ties him into this case. I mean, he never confessed, 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.640 if that's what you're getting at, but he made incriminating statements. 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.639 At a different hearing, George Wagner appeared in court for 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:49.040 an unusual request to be put in solitary confinement. Here's 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.119 Jeff speaking with Mike Gallen. What about George Wagner asking 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.639 for solitary confinement? What do you make of that? His 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.720 stated reason was that he wanted to be able to 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.879 study the Bible in peace. That's a little unusual when 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.520 inmates ask for solitary A lot of times, although they 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.400 may not say it, they're asking for that because they've 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.160 been threatened, and you know, they want to make sure 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.399 that they're as safe as they can be in jail. 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.240 You know, it's hard, it's hard to know what's going 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.680 through his head. But I mean, either he's immersing himself 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.240 in the Holy Bible or somebody saying that they're going 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.800 to do something to him. Either way, his mental state 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.080 is probably not good. But when I read that, I 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.440 kind of wondered, is that the real reason? I mean, 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.040 you know, you just have to wonder what the motivation is. 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.040 Since his arrest in twenty eighteen, accused father Billy Wagner 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:46.000 has also staunchly maintained his innocence. Billy Wagner's attorney has 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.720 been very adamant that there's no evidence. There's no case 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.679 against Billy Wagner, but there's nothing. They have, nothing that 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.239 ties him to this. Last year, Billy Wagner made an 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.760 audacious move to separate himself from the other members of 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.680 his family and moved his trial forward. He took it 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.400 upon himself to file a motion in court. It had 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.280 to do with his right to what's referred to as 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:11.159 a speedy trial and Ohio procedural rule stipulating that anyone 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.520 charged with a felony must be brought to trial within 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.000 two hundred and seventy days of their arrest while accused 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.520 father Billy Wagner, had initially waived his right to a 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.680 speedy trial. It seems he suddenly had a change of heart. 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:27.040 The court received a handwritten motion from Billy Wagner asking 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.240 that his right to a speedy trial be invoked and 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.440 that he withdraw his waiver of a speedy trial right. 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.480 He was pretty frustrated. I guess that he's sitting in jail. 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:42.119 He says he's innocent and was frustrated and submitted this 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.040 or to the court. But it was actually some fairly 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.399 good jailhouse lawyer. I'm assuming he had somebody in the 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.160 jail can write this for him and his attorneys. They 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.360 became aware of it and talked with him and withdrew 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:59.399 it immediately. Mike Allen gave us his professional opinion on 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.879 Billy's spun legal strategy. I don't care how small your 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.439 jail is, you're going to have jail house lawyers and 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.639 criminal defense attorneys instruct their clients. Do not listen to 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.080 the jail house lawyers. They don't know what they're talking about. 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.520 If they did, they wouldn't be where they are. So 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:21.840 that's every criminal defense lawyer's worst nightmare. Is when your 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:27.879 client files a motion without consulting the attorney, it's a 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:32.680 very stupid thing to do. So Billy Wagner's lawyer, I'm sure, 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:37.520 probably had some strong words for him for doing that. Well, 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.320 Billy and George Wagner have been busy filing legal motions 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.920 to help their cases. The same camp be said about 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.879 accused mother Angelo Wagner. Bob Craypence is what you would call, 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.000 you know, the first chair on this case for her 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:54.600 defense team, and he's been very it's been very quiet 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:59.359 on that front. However, Angelo Wagner has appeared in court 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:03.200 for other At a hearing in twenty nineteen, Judge Randy 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.800 Deering revoked Angelo Wagner's mail and phone privileges after she 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.720 was caught trying to discuss case strategy with her family. 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:15.040 Here's her lawyer speaking in court that day, which stipulating begetage. 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.639 She was in fact instructed she was having no contact 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.520 with codefendants in this case. This team half presented this 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:25.240 was some information indicative of a violation of that sticulate 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:30.040 that she did effect violate that court or some of 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:34.040 Angelo Wagner's alleged orchestration was presented by agent scheiterer. At 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:37.760 George's bail hearing last year, he testified about shoe prints 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:39.719 that were found at a few of the crime scenes. 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:45.879 This evidence points directly to Angela Wagner's role in the conspiracy. 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:53.919 Exib eight and nine. These are the shoe impression prints 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:58.000 that were lifted from Chris Rodan Senior's residence and those 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:02.679 are shoe impresses that later determined to be from an 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:07.240 a specific shoe that is determined to be sold by Walmart. Correct? 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:12.080 And then did you ultimately execute a search warrant up 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:15.280 on State out forty one? Yes, and you described to 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.800 us what you were searching. There there were two pickup 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:24.480 trucks and three trailers that were parked at that location 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:28.720 that belonged to the Wagner family. Did you find a receipt? Yes, 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:33.240 we did. There was a Walmart receipt. Read the receipt 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:42.560 and Jake Wagner's okay, and specifically in a tub marked 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:46.199 important days or something correct? Okay, what was the significance 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:50.200 of that receipt? So this Walmart receipt is for the Waverley, 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:55.120 Ohio Walmart on Emma Avenue. It is dated April seventh, 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:59.440 twenty sixteen timestamped at sixteen fifty eight hours on there 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:03.080 there are if they'd purchased up two Athletic brand tennis shoes, 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:06.680 which is consistent with the shoes that we were looking for. 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:11.640 And you indicated that Angela told made a statement to 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:16.160 your fellow agents that she had purchased those shoes specifically 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:21.399 for Jacob George. Correct. And you were asked if you've 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:26.840 recovered those shoes, if you found those shoes, yes, and 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:30.840 you did not correct. Correct, And isn't it true that 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:33.879 Angela said that she had thrown those shoes away the 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:37.080 very same day that she bought them. Yes, because the 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:41.480 boys didn't like the shoes. Correct, but jaded George told 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:51.680 they denied knowledge of the shoes ever seen. Correct. We're 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:53.920 going to take a quick break here. We'll be back 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:59.640 in a moment. Like many of us, you might think 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:02.840 id y theft will never happen to you, but consider this. 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:06.119 There's a new identity theft victim every three seconds in 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:09.439 the US. That's over fifteen million people by the end 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:12.320 of this year, equal to the populations of New York, 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:17.160 Los Angeles, and Chicago combined. Even worse, identity theft victims 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:20.680 often don't even know they're victims. That's why LifeLock Identity 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:24.080 theft protection helps you identify threats, even the ones that 0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:27.040 don't show up on a credit report, like data breaches, 0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:31.440