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Speaker 1: Novel.

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Speaker 2: Hey, listener, in this episode there's mentioned a murder, domestic violence,

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Speaker 2: drug abuse, and a dead body, but I do not

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Speaker 2: go into graphic detail. You also hear from a tenacious

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Speaker 2: cast of women and friends whose fight for justice is

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Speaker 2: truly truly inspiring. If you do listen and are impacted

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Speaker 2: by any of our themes, you can reach out to

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Speaker 2: no More, a domestic violence charity we've partnered with. They

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Speaker 2: have lots of great resources to help you or your

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Speaker 2: loved ones. You can find them at no More dot org.

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Speaker 2: That's no More dot org, mindy, a little louder? Hello, perfect,

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Speaker 2: So we're all on record. Yeah, and there goes your.

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Speaker 3: Talking them in the car?

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Speaker 2: Give me a she's putting her dogs in the car?

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Speaker 4: Who does that?

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Speaker 2: Mindy? Yes, Carol, we're starting right now. Are you sitting thankfully?

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Speaker 5: Yes.

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Speaker 2: I've learned so much about Gail recently. Gail was this

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Speaker 2: really educated young woman. She was pretty, she was tiny,

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Speaker 2: and she actually reminds me a little bit of me.

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Speaker 3: That does sound like you, Smart and petitte and attractive.

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Speaker 2: You know what else she had in common with us?

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Speaker 2: With you and I and our women friends?

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Speaker 3: Dark haired? Which Jewish women.

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Speaker 2: Besides dark haired Jewish women with great personalities. She not

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Speaker 2: only thought, she believed that she could fix him and

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Speaker 2: you and I've been there with men.

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Speaker 3: I can relate to that. But I don't think I

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Speaker 3: can fix them. I think I can fix me to

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Speaker 3: adapt to them. And I wonder who was fixing whom here.

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Speaker 2: That's a great point.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 2: The other thing I'm not proud of is that I'm

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Speaker 2: not happy with some of the laughter we had over

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Speaker 2: this situation. Like I look back and I go, what

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Speaker 2: the hell was I thinking. It's not that we were

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Speaker 2: doing anything wrong. We didn't know. But as I've come

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Speaker 2: to No Gail, as I've come to get acquainted with Elane,

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Speaker 2: we all have a very common bond and all could

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Speaker 2: have been great friends.

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Speaker 3: You know, in our weird Harriet the spy way, we're

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Speaker 3: hoisting a red flag. There's something dangerous. We are concerned

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Speaker 3: about this. I mean, really, Carol, look at how much

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Speaker 3: angst we had about doing this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I went kicking and screaming.

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Speaker 3: So there is a lot of baggage that we carry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, part of me doing this mindy is

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Speaker 2: about like it's just time to own my story for

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Speaker 2: christ sake. The domestic abuse or the controlling behaviors of men.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't have to define most women. May that just

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Speaker 2: be part of our journey. May not that be a

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Speaker 2: complete story.

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Speaker 3: You know, your definition of self changes daily. It's like Hamilton,

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Speaker 3: who tells you story? Because after you can't tell your

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Speaker 3: own story? Who tells your story?

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Speaker 2: I look back on that time and even now. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you supported me then, and you support me now.

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Speaker 3: And I support you because you're my crazy friend.

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Speaker 5: I know.

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Speaker 2: I miss you.

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Speaker 1: I love you.

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Speaker 2: I love you too. And get the dogs out of

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Speaker 2: the freaking car would you? From the teams at novel

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Speaker 2: and iHeartRadio, I'm Carol Fisher and you're listening to the

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Speaker 2: Girlfriends Episode four. Phone calls from Manhattan.

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Speaker 4: Got you, I've got you, got you, I've got you,

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Speaker 4: got you, I've got you.

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Speaker 2: This is what I found out about the days, months,

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Speaker 2: and years in New York after Gale went missing. In

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Speaker 2: the late afternoon on Monday, July eighth, nineteen eighty five,

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Speaker 2: Gail's sister Elaine, called her parents from a payphone from

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Speaker 2: the corner of Broadway and seventy fifth Street. She was

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Speaker 2: letting them know that she was headed back to law

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Speaker 2: school in DC.

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Speaker 4: And My mother said to me, have you spoken to Gail?

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Speaker 4: Do you know where Gail is? And I said, no,

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Speaker 4: I'm driving in a car, you know, to Manhattan. Then

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Speaker 4: I'm my way to d see what's wrong? And she said,

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Speaker 4: Bob said that she went out and never came back.

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Speaker 4: And they had a birthday party in Jersey for his

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Speaker 4: sister's child and she never came home. And that did

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Speaker 4: seem really odd. Gail was about appearances. The idea that Gail,

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Speaker 4: no matter how annoyed she was with Bob, didn't come

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Speaker 4: home to attend a birthday party for her nephew by

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Speaker 4: marriage in New Jersey was very strange.

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Speaker 2: Elaine put the phone down and got back into the

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Speaker 2: car to start the five hour drive back to DC,

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Speaker 2: and then, over the course of twenty four hours, everyone

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Speaker 2: else's phones in New York started ringing. Everyone was saying

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Speaker 2: the same thing, where is Gail.

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Speaker 1: Elaine called me and asked me if I had talked

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Speaker 1: to Gail? And I was like, what do you mean

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Speaker 1: if I talked to Gail?

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Speaker 2: No, why Abby Bruce, Gail's cousin.

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Speaker 1: Hoe down, So now what are you talking about?

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Speaker 5: She went out for a job, she.

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Speaker 2: Hasn't come home.

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Speaker 3: It's been since yesterday.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean she went for a jog and

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Speaker 1: she never came home.

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Speaker 4: What did she have on?

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Speaker 1: She had on her running shorts and her T shirt.

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Speaker 1: So I went out and started walking around and thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know where could she have possibly gone, walked over

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Speaker 1: to the park, came back, called my mother, who also

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Speaker 1: was like, what are you talking about? What do you

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Speaker 1: mean she's missing? So my mother hung up from me

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Speaker 1: and called my aunt.

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Speaker 2: But when Abby's mom called Sylvia, she was already in hysterics.

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Speaker 1: I need to find my child. We need to find her.

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Speaker 1: I remember her screaming at the top of her lungs.

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Speaker 1: So everybody was kind of making phone calls through the

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Speaker 1: rest of the day. Anyone heard from her, anyone heard

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Speaker 1: no one had heard from her. No one had heard

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Speaker 1: from her.

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Speaker 2: Next to get a call with Denise, Gale's best friend.

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Speaker 2: But it's not a Laine or Abby or Sylvia. He

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Speaker 2: called me, it's Bob.

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Speaker 5: Scale with you what no bus? She never came home.

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Speaker 5: That's when I said, oh my god, I knew right away,

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Speaker 5: I said to my husband at that time.

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Speaker 4: He killed him.

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Speaker 2: On Monday evening, roughly thirty hours after gail Is said

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Speaker 2: to have gone missing. Bob went to the nineteenth Precinct

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Speaker 2: on East ninety fifth Street and filed a police report.

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Speaker 2: He told the officer that he had been arguing with

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Speaker 2: his wife, Gail all morning and that around eleven am,

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Speaker 2: she stormed out of their home to cool off in

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Speaker 2: Central Park. He told them that she had a history

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Speaker 2: of depression and suicide attempts, which prompted the officer to

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Speaker 2: write EDP in the remarked section of the report. Now

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Speaker 2: EDP is shorthand for emotionally disturbed person. Gail is a

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Speaker 2: officially designated as New York's Missing Person's Squad number seven

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Speaker 2: eight one six, and her case is assigned to Detective

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Speaker 2: Tom O'Malley. Tom's first task is to start interviewing people

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Speaker 2: Gale's family, her college friends, Denise, Elaine, and they are

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Speaker 2: all talking about Bob.

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Speaker 4: Bob is acting weird, like some TV station wants to

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Speaker 4: put it on the six o'clock news, like two four

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Speaker 4: or seven, and he's like refusing to do it and

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Speaker 4: asking my mother if she'll drive in from Long Island

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Speaker 4: to do it, which is so strange. I mean, he

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Speaker 4: lives in Manhattan, where the TV studios are. This his wife.

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Speaker 2: In the end, he does the interview, and this is

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Speaker 2: the only moment that you'll hear Bob's voice on this

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Speaker 2: podcast because he and his attorney he never got back

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Speaker 2: to our request for an interview. But here he is

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Speaker 2: talking about Gail in nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 6: She's a graduate student psychology, takes out very seriously and

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Speaker 6: has patient responsibilities. Has patients were dependent on her, and

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Speaker 6: I think, no matter you know what, she wouldn't abandon

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Speaker 6: her patients.

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Speaker 2: What do you think happened to your wife?

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Speaker 6: I don't know. I don't know, but I'm worried.

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Speaker 2: Detective O'Malley started to build up a pretty damning picture

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Speaker 2: of Bob. Multiple people tell him about Bob's controlling behavior,

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Speaker 2: the strangulation, and the cat incident. O'Malley wanted to interview him,

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Speaker 2: but he knew he had to tread carefully. He didn't

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Speaker 2: want Bob to think he was a primary suspect and

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Speaker 2: lawyer up too soon, So during a casual phone call,

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Speaker 2: O'Malley invited Bob down to the station for a chat.

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Speaker 2: This is a note from Detective O'Malley ally's police report

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Speaker 2: from that day that my producer Anna found. It's dated

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Speaker 2: July thirteenth, just six days after Gale went missing. I

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Speaker 2: then asked him if he ever attempted to strangle his wife,

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Speaker 2: and he said, very abruptly, he did not want to

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Speaker 2: talk about it. When asked of any incident with the cat,

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Speaker 2: I received the same abrupt type answer.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: As we concluded, doctor Breenbaum said this doesn't look right,

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Speaker 2: and people are going to start to wonder. When I

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Speaker 2: asked him what he meant, he said, it's obvious, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: After that interview, Tom reached out to Elaine.

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Speaker 4: And he said, Bob was not forthcoming. It's so weird.

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Speaker 4: Bob doesn't want my help. Bob does not want me

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Speaker 4: to find your sister. If my sister was leaving him

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Speaker 4: and going to live with some guy, going to live

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Speaker 4: with some girlfriend, going to Bora, Bora, or wherever the

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Speaker 4: heck she was doing, the first one she would have

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Speaker 4: called would have been me. She might not have called

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Speaker 4: me to admit that she was going to stay married

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Speaker 4: to the psychopath, but she certainly would have called me

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Speaker 4: to tell me she was leaving him, and I would

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Speaker 4: have been there to do all the things she needed

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Speaker 4: me to do. I mean, please, she was dead. She

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Speaker 4: was dead or he hurt her terribly and he had

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Speaker 4: her hidden somewhere.

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Speaker 2: The next day, exactly a week after Gail went missing,

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Speaker 2: Bob and Gail's friends and family headed to Central Park

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Speaker 2: to distribute some missing posters. I'm looking at one right now.

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Speaker 2: The portrait of Gail is in black and white from

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Speaker 2: the photocopier. In it, her hair is layered and shoulder length.

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Speaker 2: She's smiling, but in that way where your eyes are

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Speaker 2: being blinded by the sun, or you don't quite want

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Speaker 2: your photo taken. And on the poster they've written her

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Speaker 2: height five to three, her weight one hundred and seven pounds,

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Speaker 2: brown hair and hazel eyes, a graduate student at Long

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Speaker 2: Island University, last seen at eleven am July seventh, nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty five, and they offered a reward for any information.

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Speaker 2: I'm telling you this gives me chills. It just it

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Speaker 2: must have been terrifying.

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Speaker 5: Part of me knew she was dead, but part of

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Speaker 5: me wanted to find her. Part of me wanted to

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Speaker 5: find her alive and know that she was still out

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Speaker 5: there somewhere.

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Speaker 4: They papered the park with missing posters. Except my mother

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Speaker 4: told me it felt weird. It felt like there were

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Speaker 4: two camps. There was Bob and his friends, and there

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Speaker 4: was my mother and father and Gail's friends, and it

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Speaker 4: didn't feel that they had the same mission.

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Speaker 2: At one point, Bob was handing out posters to passing

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Speaker 2: joggers with Gail's college friend Marianne. When she asked him

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Speaker 2: where he thought Gail might be, he said, I think

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Speaker 2: she's on a shopping spree at Bloomingdale's. You know what

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Speaker 2: a jap she is? Now, for those of you unfamiliar

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Speaker 2: with the term JAP, it means Jewish American princess, and

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Speaker 2: just in case it's not clear, it's a condescending term.

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Speaker 2: Bob then suggests that Gail may have been overly affected

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Speaker 2: when writing her recent paper on depression, but Marianne disagreed

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Speaker 2: with him. Gail didn't seem depressed when she last saw her.

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00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,600
Speaker 2: Marianne's stance seemed to annoy Bob, at which point he

222
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 2: pointed over at the gate and he said, how do

223
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,920
Speaker 2: you know she just didn't climb that gate? How do

224
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Speaker 2: you know Gail isn't lying at the bottom of that reservoir.

225
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Speaker 4: At one point, the New York Post did a story

226
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 4: on it, and there's everybody holding the missing posters in

227
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 4: front of their chest. Bob is holding it in front

228
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,640
Speaker 4: of his face as if he doesn't want people to

229
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,960
Speaker 4: see him, just like he didn't want to go on camera.

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Speaker 2: After distributing posters, Denise and a group of Gail's friends

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00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,000
Speaker 2: went back to Gail in Bob's apartment. It was then

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Speaker 2: that they all started quizzing, Bob, where's Gail, When did

233
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,280
Speaker 2: you last see her? What were you arguing about?

234
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,480
Speaker 5: He acted like, oh, so upset Gail's missing.

235
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Speaker 2: The group of women started looking around for clues.

236
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Speaker 5: And that's when we said, where's the rug that used

237
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Speaker 5: to be here?

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Speaker 7: This was a beautiful.

239
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,760
Speaker 2: Asian rug, and Bob said, oh, it had to be

240
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:01,960
Speaker 2: the cat got sick.

241
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,640
Speaker 5: We all looked at each other why but he was

242
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:11,320
Speaker 5: so stone cold. It's not as if he displayed any

243
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,480
Speaker 5: emotion at all, so there was like nothing to react to.

244
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 2: At one point, the phone rang, but Bob decided not

245
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,720
Speaker 2: to pick it up. When the answering machine kicked in,

246
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,040
Speaker 2: Gail's voice played out into the entire room, telling the

247
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 2: caller to leave a message. It must have been heartbreaking.

248
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 2: Along the way, Bob continued to share his theories. He

249
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,920
Speaker 2: talked about Gail's drug use and how perhaps that's how

250
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 2: she had gotten into trouble.

251
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Speaker 4: Listen, I'm not going to say my sister didn't do

252
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,880
Speaker 4: any drugs. My sister had patience, and she was a

253
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,280
Speaker 4: graduate student, and then she had this prestigious internship. My

254
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,160
Speaker 4: sister was not someone who had a drug problem. I'm

255
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,480
Speaker 4: not saying my sister never did any drugs, but that's

256
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:07,560
Speaker 4: not who she was.

257
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,680
Speaker 2: Everything the Cat's family knew started to stack up Bob's

258
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 2: past behavior, the fact that Gail was going to leave

259
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,879
Speaker 2: him that very night, the way she apparently left with

260
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,760
Speaker 2: hardly any belongings, and yet nobody had seen or heard

261
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,120
Speaker 2: from her. They had become convinced that Bob killed Gail.

262
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,240
Speaker 2: With only a week or two left before sitting for

263
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,600
Speaker 2: her bar exam, Elaine had to make a hard call.

264
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,919
Speaker 4: I'll never forget. I was taking the Peeper Lar Review

265
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 4: class and I called John Peeper and I told him

266
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Speaker 4: what I was going through. He said, don't take the

267
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,040
Speaker 4: word exam. I can't do that, which was sad for me.

268
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,159
Speaker 2: For Elaine, this was no longer a missing person's case,

269
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 2: but a homicide investigation. And if she wasn't going to

270
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 2: for the bar, then she'd settle for putting Bob behind bars.

271
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 4: Of course, I was a heartbroken that I did not

272
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 4: know where my sister was. But it wasn't because I

273
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,240
Speaker 4: couldn't bear the truth that my sister just left for

274
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 4: another life and ignored her sister. It's because the facts

275
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:30,960
Speaker 4: surrounding the situation made it impossible. She left her pocketbook,

276
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,560
Speaker 4: you know, there with cigarettes, and she lives in a

277
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 4: building with doormen. There's a fire department on the same

278
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 4: block where they all whistled at my sexy sister. She's

279
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,160
Speaker 4: allegedly wearing a tank top and short shorts. Nobody saw her.

280
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,479
Speaker 4: We would fall asleep without hanging up the phone. She

281
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:56,359
Speaker 4: did not go somewhere without talking to me, and I

282
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 4: began the one to two years us of proving that

283
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:29,680
Speaker 4: Bob killed my sister. There's my notes on what I did.

284
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 4: These are all the notes on all the phone calls

285
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 4: that I've had. The missing posters in here.

286
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,920
Speaker 2: When Elaine first arrived back in New York after dropping

287
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,439
Speaker 2: out of law school, she immediately started collaborating with the

288
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,639
Speaker 2: detectives from the Missing Person's Unit.

289
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 4: It took the form of a deep relationship with Tom

290
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 4: O'Malley and literally walking the beat with him, I mean

291
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,560
Speaker 4: sitting there and missing persons with him, brainstorming with him.

292
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,360
Speaker 2: They would talk about the calls Tom would get from

293
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 2: people responding to the missing person's reports. A man who

294
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 2: claimed to see Gail sitting in a yoga position in

295
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,160
Speaker 2: front of a brown stone near Washington Square. A doorman

296
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,160
Speaker 2: from an apartment on fifty second Street thought he saw her,

297
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 2: but later he changed his mind. And a man said

298
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 2: he saw her and her friend at eighteen eighth Bagels

299
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,439
Speaker 2: on East eighty first Street. She was spotted uptown on

300
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 2: the subway, downtown through Soho, and wandering around Tudor City.

301
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 2: None of these sightings could be verified by the detectives,

302
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,399
Speaker 2: but they also could not be dismissed ultimately, though the

303
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 2: detectives already had a pretty good hunch who the last

304
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,639
Speaker 2: person to see Gail was.

305
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 4: I'll never forget. I was having a drink with Tom

306
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 4: O'Malley on one of those investigator cop bars and less

307
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 4: Wolf came in and walked over and greeted us.

308
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 2: Less as a private investigator that Bobbitt hired to search

309
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 2: for Gail.

310
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 4: And as he walked away, Tommy said, yeah, he's been

311
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 4: hired to, you know, hide evidence. Bob knew he did it.

312
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 4: Bob wasn't hiring someone to help find Gail. He knew

313
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:13,959
Speaker 4: exactly where Gail was.

314
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 2: We couldn't confirm this, but whatever way you slice it.

315
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 2: For Elaine, the official route didn't seem to be leading

316
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 2: to anything, so she tried a different tack. She offered

317
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 2: to pick up some of Gail's stuff from Bob's place.

318
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 4: I was hoping that I could engage him in some way,

319
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 4: and I thought that it.

320
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 7: Sounds so idiotic.

321
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 4: Now he might break down and I'll never figure out.

322
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 4: I got up there and all of my sister's stuff

323
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 4: was in big trash backs. He didn't want her underwear,

324
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 4: he didn't want her perfume, he wanted her bike, her skis,

325
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 4: he wanted some expense and sieve crystal platter that my

326
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 4: aunt had bought them as a wedding gift. I argued

327
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 4: with him, you can't have that. I called my aunt

328
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 4: be on the phone and I said, Be, tell him

329
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 4: he has to give me the bowl. And I handed

330
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 4: him the phone and he let me take the ball.

331
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 4: And I realized I had made the biggest mistake. Had

332
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 4: I left the stuff. It may have haunted him. Instead,

333
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 4: I was taking out the trash.

334
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: By this point, Bob had been interviewed a few times

335
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 2: by Detective O'Malley and his partner, Detective Dolcis. At first

336
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 2: it had been on a friendly, voluntary basis, but it

337
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 2: was becoming a parent that they were no longer treating

338
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: Gale's disappearance as a missing person's case. After five or

339
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 2: so interviews, he lawyered up and became increasingly hard to reach.

340
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 2: Whenever the cops or Gail's friends and family tried to

341
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:12,959
Speaker 2: call him, they got his answering machine. Time passed and

342
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 2: still nothing. The Cat's family endured their first family gatherings

343
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 2: without Gail, their first young Kaipoor, the first passover, and

344
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 2: with each passing day, the family's grief cemented and the

345
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: wider public forgot about Gail. So Elaine started writing letters

346
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 2: to the editors and journalists of New York papers from

347
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: the perspective of her grieving mother.

348
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 4: My name is Sylvia Katz. My daughter gil Katspiarram disappeared

349
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 4: from her apartment. Nobody has heard from her. My son

350
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 4: in law has been asked to take a lie detector

351
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 4: test along with other friends with Gaels, but unlike her

352
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 4: friends who said yes, my son in law has refused twice.

353
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 4: He was the last person to see Gail. Therefore everything

354
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 4: that is known comes from him. He is uncooperative, as

355
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 4: is his family. We are very frustrated, and so are

356
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 4: the police. Please help us. Part of what I was

357
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 4: trying to do is really in good faith, get evidence.

358
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 4: Part of what I was trying to do if I

359
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 4: couldn't get evidence, is make sure that every single place

360
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 4: that Bob was people knew the truth. So by the spring,

361
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 4: I sent letters to every doctor that worked with Bob.

362
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 4: And at that point he was in a three hospital rotation,

363
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 4: and I sent them to all three hospitals. I used

364
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 4: a reverse phone book at the New York Public Library.

365
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 4: This is way before happy web stuff sending a letter

366
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 4: to every single person in the high rise apartment building.

367
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 2: Elaine started coming up with their own leads, talking to

368
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 2: people the police hadn't even interviewed.

369
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 4: The woman downstairs told me that it was terrible living

370
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 4: under them. They fought constantly, especially on the weekends when

371
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 4: he was home, and it was awful. And what was

372
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 4: interesting about that day was how quiet it was, except

373
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 4: she heard furniture moving, but it wasn't enough. There came

374
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 4: a time, the Missing Persons and the Homicide Bureau and

375
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 4: they all put their hands up and said, we just

376
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 4: don't have the evidence. Lady. I remember thinking double jeopardy.

377
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 4: They're hoping for a better case, and if they do

378
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 4: it now and they fail and they ever get really

379
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 4: good evidence, he will be walking around with impunity being

380
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 4: able to say I beat it. And I think that

381
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 4: really would have killed us. But my cousin, Hillard Weiss

382
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 4: worked for the Legal Aid Society and he got the

383
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 4: DA's office to investigate.

384
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: In August nineteen eighty six, a year and a month

385
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 2: since Gale went missing. The case was passed on to

386
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: the Manhattan District Attorney's office, but after just one year,

387
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 2: the investigation came to a halt and the case was

388
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 2: dropped yet again.

389
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 4: So at the point at which they said we're not prosecuting,

390
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 4: I had nothing left to lose, and I began a

391
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 4: different campaign. I would call him and I would say,

392
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 4: I know you killed my sister. Everyone knows she killed

393
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 4: my sister, and you're not going to get away with that.

394
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 4: And I'm going to keep on leaving these messages. Yes,

395
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 4: and every time you have a new girlfriend, she's going

396
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 4: to hear these messages. I was dying for him to

397
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,959
Speaker 4: sue me for slander. We might not have had beyond

398
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 4: a reasonable doubt for a criminal courtroom, but if he

399
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 4: sued me, I would get him under oath and a

400
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 4: deposition and a civil suit. He would have to prove

401
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 4: that I was lying, so I could act with absolute impunity.

402
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: But Bob was never going to sue Elane. He knew

403
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: better than that. Instead, her messages went unanswered, and slowly

404
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: people started getting on with their lives. Even Bob continued

405
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: to work at my Monadese Hospital, where he now worked

406
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: as a heart surgeon.

407
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 5: I went back to work, I went through my daily routine.

408
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: Denise Gale's friend.

409
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 5: I used to ride the bus and I'd look out

410
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 5: the window on the bus, and sometimes i'd see somebody

411
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 5: that looked like her, and you know, I'd get this

412
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 5: rush inside me like a girl, you know, And of

413
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 5: course I realized it wasn't but I never stopped looking

414
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 5: for her. So for a lot of years it was

415
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 5: still that feeling inside me. Then maybe she is alive,

416
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 5: Maybe she is out there.

417
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: Elaine decided that after three years of grief and anger.

418
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 2: She needed to choose herself.

419
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 4: Because during the summer of nineteen eighty eight, my father

420
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 4: had been hospitalized with heart disease. They discovered a massive

421
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 4: brain tumor. That's around the time that I decided I

422
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 4: had to live. I left Larry because he reminded me

423
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 4: of Gail.

424
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: Larry was Elaine's long term boyfriend.

425
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 4: I stopped allowing my mother to talk to me about

426
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 4: my sister. I when I'm New York magazine Personal Ads

427
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 4: and found a husband literally.

428
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: And while Elaine was on her honeymoon with her new husband,

429
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: a human torso washed up on the shores of Staten Island,

430
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: a torso that they believe could belong to Gail. It

431
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: was a calm day on Staten Island when the torso

432
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: washed up just north of the Verrizanto Narrows Bridge. She

433
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: was carried in by the water and laid on the

434
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: beach waiting to be found. Without overwhelming you with details,

435
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: it was clear that she had been at sea for

436
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: a while and that it was not her choice. This

437
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: happened on May twenty first, nineteen eighty nine, which makes

438
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: it roughly four years since Gail went missing. Obviously, It's

439
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: hard to verify who a torso belongs to it first glance,

440
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: But for New York's Chief Medical Examiner Charles Hirsch, the

441
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: age and size of the torso on the shore it

442
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 2: seemed to match up enough to warrant further testing, and

443
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: once again Elaine had to put her own life to

444
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: one side.

445
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 4: The saga began of trying to identify the torso. They

446
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,719
Speaker 4: tried DNA testing, but it was in the water for

447
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 4: so long. The DNA testing was not sophisticated enough back

448
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty nine, and I remember it was the

449
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 4: fall of eighty nine when during one of those trillion

450
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 4: conversations that I had racking my brain about how am

451
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 4: I going to identify this torso? I remembered that my

452
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 4: sister had a cox It's bone injury. And we looked

453
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 4: far and wide for those X rays. We couldn't find them.

454
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 4: Then we remembered that she had that injury when she

455
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 4: was at NYU and she didn't have health insurance, so

456
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 4: she used my health insurance card to get X rays,

457
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 4: and we got all these X rays, and it was

458
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 4: the radiology report of the torso comparing it to the

459
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 4: X rays that we found that sufficiently for the medical

460
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 4: examiner allowed them to change Jane Doe Torso on the

461
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 4: death certificate to Gil Cat's Spearmbam And finally I felt

462
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 4: that I found my sister and I had her and

463
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 4: she was safe.

464
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: A few months later, Gil's family finally had a burial.

465
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 4: I remember there was a scene at the burial site

466
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 4: because I wanted to open the coffin. I wanted to

467
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 4: see my sister, and I cried and screamed, and people

468
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 4: who were bigger than me, which wasn't so hard, physically

469
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 4: restrained me. They would not let me.

470
00:32:53,440 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 7: See her, and we buried her.

471
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 2: Gail's gravestone is small, nestled closely to the ground. Its

472
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: inscription reads Gail Beth beloved daughter, granddaughter, and sister March eighth,

473
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty six to July seventh, nineteen eighty five, Forever

474
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 2: in our hearts. I'm sure it meant a lot to

475
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: give Gail a place to rest. Usually Jewish burials take

476
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: place within twenty four hours, yet the Cats has had

477
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,239
Speaker 2: to wait four years. But whatever sense of closure that

478
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: gave them, it didn't last long. Within six months of

479
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: the burial, Sylvia Elaine's mother was diagnosed with an aggressive

480
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: form of cancer.

481
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 4: My mother buried daughter and she was dead by June.

482
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 2: Then just six years later, Elaine's father, Manny Katz, also

483
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: died from cancer, something he battled for years. He was

484
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: buried next to his daughter and his wife in the

485
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: Mountain Zion Cemetery family plot in Queens.

486
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 7: That's when I stopped.

487
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 4: I could not leave my brother alone, so I promised

488
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 4: myself that Bob would not kill me too.

489
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 2: But when Elaine cat stops, she doesn't really stop.

490
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 1: She was so angry that he was out there walking

491
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: around living his life. As long as her sister was gone,

492
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: she was going to find a way to make him pay.

493
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 2: This is Abby Bruce, Elaine's cousin.

494
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: There wasn't a thing you could say to her do.

495
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: It was an obsession. And what's amazing to me about

496
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: her is that along with that obsession she lived her life.

497
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: She got married, she had children, she opened a law firm.

498
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: I mean, she's an amazing person. But there was no

499
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: question in my mind that she was never going to

500
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 1: give up.

501
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: And so every once in a while Elaine would pick

502
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 2: up a part of the case, or in a moment

503
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 2: of sudden fury, she'd call Bob again to leave a

504
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 2: message on his machine while he was at work.

505
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 4: You killed my sister, and I know you think you

506
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 4: got away with it. I will always hound you and

507
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 4: haunt you, and I will keep at the police, I

508
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 4: will keep at the press. I will always find you

509
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 4: as long as you are a licensed and registered physician.

510
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 4: No matter where you go, I will find you. And

511
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 4: thanks to me, he did.

512
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: Go straightened to my unsuspecting arms in Las Vegas, Nevada.

513
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: But it didn't take long for him to run again.

514
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: While we were meeting up to talk about him at

515
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: the Mayflower Restaurant, he was packing his bags and heading

516
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 2: to one of the coldest places in America, North Dakota.

517
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: I know surprised us too.

518
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 3: There was a period where there was a vault and

519
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 3: he was writing snowblower injuries in the minor newspaper.

520
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 5: He was just smart guying, but women found him creepy.

521
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 4: I will never forget him saying. We have a cold

522
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 4: case Bureau, and I'd like to open up Gil's case.

523
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: We'd like to have the three hour lunches, we'd like

524
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 2: to have a cocktailer after work, and we'd like to

525
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 2: investigating homicides and.

526
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 4: I mentioned you know the Torso, and I'll never forget

527
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 4: him saying what Torso.

528
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 2: The Girlfriends is produced by Novel for Our Heart Radio.

529
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 2: For more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio. The series

530
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 2: is hosted by me Carol Fisher and produced by Anna Sinfield.

531
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 2: Our assistant producer is Julian Manyu Gera Patten, and our

532
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: researcher is Madeline Parr. The editor is Veronica Simmons. Max

533
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 2: O'Brien is our executive producer. Our fact checker is Valeria Rocca.

534
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 2: Production management from Sharie Houston and Charlotte woolf Sound design,

535
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempsen and Nicholas Alexander. Music

536
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 2: supervision by Anna Sinfield. Original music composed by Luisa Gerstein.

537
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: Story development by Isaac Fisher. Willard Foxton is creative director

538
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: of Development. Special thanks to Shawn Glynn, David Waters, might

539
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: Ley Rowl, Katrina Noravel, David Wasserman, and Beth Anne Mcaluso.

540
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 2: We did reach out to Bob and his legal team

541
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 2: to ask if he'd like to comment on the podcast,

542
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: but we never heard back.

543
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 5: Novel