WEBVTT - Summer Reading 2018, Part 1 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.840 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:14.600 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.320 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. How 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.600 are you doing today, Robert, on this fine summer morning. Well, 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.120 I'm doing great because we're we're about to jump into 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:26.400 our our annual summer reading episode. Every year, I feel 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:28.360 like we end up doing these two late in the 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.000 summer and everybody's already gone to the beach, so their 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:33.680 beach reading time is gone, and they ended up just 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:35.879 reading whatever was in the beach house they went to 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.080 or something. I bet you've had that experience before. I've 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.800 never been forced to read the books in the beach house, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.880 but I always check them out. It's always it's always, 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.559 I always approached when I find the stash of books. Uh. 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.760 It always built up a sense of excitement because you 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.639 pretty much know what to expect. It's gonna be your 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.040 Tom Clancy books, right, It's gonna be or what you're 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.280 Daniel Steel. Why is it that everybody who owns beach 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.480 front property is into Tom Clancy. I don't know. There's 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.280 a strange confluence of characteristics of a person. It does 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.680 seem like the the the type of person who owns 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.600 a beach house seems to have Tom Clancy books or 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:14.760 is it the other way around? People who go to 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.240 beach houses tend to bring tom Clancy books with them 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:19.880 and then leave them. Like if you're into kind of 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:25.120 like like cold war military technology and uh, nuclear submarines 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.600 and stuff like that, you just end up with a 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.120 lot of extra money and real estate and investments. I 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.520 don't know. But again you can say, well, yes, Tom 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.280 Clancy books were highly popular, But why do I see 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.640 more Tom Clancy books seemingly without actually doing like a 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.160 scientific study of this, Why does it seem like they 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.360 are more Tom Clancy books than say, Stephen King books 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.480 or Michael Crichton books. Though I have to say that 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.200 occasionally I get lucky and find some some cool gym 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.760 like some seventies horror or that the last time I 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.080 went to a beach house, uh, there there happened to 0:01:56.080 --> 0:02:00.320 be some some German books, like German language books. I 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:02.600 can't remember what they were off hand, but it was 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.160 exciting to find something new. I'm just remembering. I think 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:06.800 one time you told me about going to a beach 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.400 house in the summer and finding a werewolf spy book. Yes, yes, 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:12.640 to cover Werewolf. That was one I think I had 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.040 to take a picture of. I I cannot remember the 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.840 the author um or the title, but it was I 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.160 think it was a seventies or the eighties publication. Well, anyway, 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:23.320 there's still time in the summer, still time to read 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.360 summer reading books. So we're here with our picks for 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.120 the summer of But before we get into that, I 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.320 think we need to remind you real quick that we're 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.680 about to go on tour. That's right, we have a 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.560 we have a mini tour coming up, and this is 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.079 gonna be in September, specifically September. We're going to be 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.080 in Boston at the Armory September six. We're gonna be 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.959 in New York City at the Cutting Room. September seven, 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.960 We're going to be in Philly at at Underground Arts, 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.200 and then then on then on the ninth, we're gonna 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.720 be in Washington, d C. At Union Stage. So if 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.799 you've ever wanted to experience stuff to blow your mind live, 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.560 if you want to check out like you nique stuff 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.359 to blow your mind experience, uh, this is the opportunity 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.680 to do it. This is gonna be a special episode. 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.519 We're really excited about what we're putting together. Yes, So 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.800 if you are interested in coming out to see us, 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.960 you can click on the tour tab on our website 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:14.760 that stuff to Blow your Mind dot com and you 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:16.639 can go ahead and get your tickets today. Yeah, I 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:18.680 got to stuff to blow your Mind dot com Live 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.120 shows Tabor right at the top. Click on it and 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.320 buy your ticket. Get ready to go. But now back 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.960 to Summer Reading, which which really this whole episode is 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.760 always like the final minutes of an episode of Reading Rainbow. 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:32.920 Do you remember watching Reading Rainbow as a child, Well, 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:34.519 of course I remember it. About what happened in the 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.280 final minutes. You would have just a few different children 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.200 would present a book that they had read and loved, 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.000 and essentially it was like a mini book report. Over 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.280 the years, it's we've had different host arrangements. Sometimes we've 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.720 had guests, either guests from other How Stuff Works podcasts 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:54.280 or guests from outside the organization. Uh. This this year 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:57.600 is just just Joe and UH and me. But still 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.360 we have some some really exciting books to discuss here. Uh, 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.280 some books that so many of you out there have 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.160 already read uh others, others of you are going to 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.360 be introduced to some new reads for the first time, 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.840 all minor Tom Clancy books. One quick caveat this is 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.680 gonna be a two parter. Uh so this is gonna 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:17.520 we started talking about books and then we went for 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.039 two hours. So uh sorry or or I guess not 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.880 sorry about that. Everybody loves talking about books and cool concepts. 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:26.960 So yeah, be prepared. This one is going to be 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.440 split into you know, I don't know about you, Joe, 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:33.839 but personally, the nonfiction part of summer reading is always 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.840 a challenge for me because I find that almost all 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.840 of my nonfiction reading is usually podcast research, and if 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.920 I stumble across a new fiction nonfiction book that I'm 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.640 interested in, then I'll probably shoot to cover it on 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:50.560 an episode exactly. So um So this year I made 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.159 sure that I picked out something that I've been meaning 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.719 to read for a long time and something that felt timely. 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.120 Uh you know, especially given some of our recent episodes. Yeah, 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.080 I know what you mean that choosing which ones to 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.600 talk about it can be difficult because, for example, uh, 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.080 one of my favorite books I read this year, I 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.800 know was was Carl Zimmer's Awesome book She Has Her 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.160 Mother's Laugh, which we interviewed Carl about on the podcast 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.880 in June. And so you're thinking about that, and I say, well, 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.000 that's that is definitely one of my favorite books I 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:20.880 read this year, But we already did an episode about it, 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.680 so it doesn't make sense to like really recommend that again. 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.440 Uh So, I I tried in this episode to pick 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.320 books that I hadn't talked about or hadn't talked about 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:34.039 much on the podcast already. Yeah, likewise, I had I 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:36.920 had a similar problem with with fiction choices because when 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.000 it comes to literature, I'm kind of I guess I'm 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.239 kind of a selfish lover. I will if I really 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.200 dig a work of fiction, I'm probably going to talk 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.560 about it on the show. So both of my fiction 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:50.480 choices this year, my main choices that I made, I 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.880 have discussed at least in passing a few past episodes, 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.920 but I haven't really I think, you know, chewed them 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.640 up properly on the show. Um. But on the other hand, 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.160 one of my absolute favorite books from the last year 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.800 was our Scott Baker's The Unholy Consult, And we actually 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:08.800 had Scott on the show to talk a little bit 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.560 about that book. So I'm not going to talk about 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:13.320 it anymore. Here is that the one A bunch of 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.719 people were mad about, Well, I don't know a bunch 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.279 of people were mad about. There was some division among 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:24.280 the fans about like what the ending meant. You know, 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.640 it's stuck, It's stuck with you. And I felt like 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.800 it was very much in keeping with the trajectory of 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.200 all the previous books. Well, let's get right into our 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.159 book selections. All right, Robert, I think you are starting 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.240 with a classic, aren't you. Yeah, a classic that I 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:42.120 had I had never read. Uh, so this was the 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.280 first time for me, but I was well from familiar 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:48.000 with it. By reputation, The Demon Haunted World Science as 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:52.440 a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan from So 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.880 the author here, of course has Carl Sagan, noted astrophysicist, author, 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.040 cosmos television host and one of the most important and 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.520 enduring science communicators of the twentieth century. And now that 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.159 this is one of those big this is like one 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.960 of the great science communication tomes. Yes, yeah, And and 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.280 this was also the next to last book written in 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:16.880 Sagan's lifetime, as he died of pneumonia after a battle 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:20.560 with cancer. So, yeah, I picked it up recently following 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:22.720 our most recent episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.000 on science communication and the dangers, particularly of the illusory 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.200 truth effect. Oh yes, So we had a two parter 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.080 on that recently, and that's the concept that's now been 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.800 shown in multiple studies replicated over and over that simply 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.520 exposing somebody to a claim and then repeating that claim 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.880 over and over actually does provably make people believe the 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.840 claim more. Yeah, and it really made us think about 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.200 about the show, about some of the things we talk about. 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:53.040 Sometimes we talk about erroneous theories or um, let's say, 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.480 radical hypotheses, and and you know, to what extent, uh, 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:59.280 should we do that too? You know what what is 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.880 what is our respond instability? What as a as science communicators? 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.480 I think I have come away thinking I thought about 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.560 this a lot since the episode. I think I've come 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.040 away thinking, as I originally did, that it doesn't make 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.400 sense to say we can never discuss bad ideas on 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.280 the podcast. I mean, that's that's a lot of what 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:20.920 we do. And yeah, yeah, that's it's an extremely important 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.320 thing to do. It's not like once an idea looks 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:27.320 unlikely or has been disproven, you should never speak of it. 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.080 But I think that the point is that whenever you 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.199 speak of those things, you should make clear that simply 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.120 repeating the thing and then saying it's not true isn't 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.240 the whole story that you give the alternative account that 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.439 you get, that you analyze, you explain, you give people 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:47.319 context that's memorable so they can understand what the truth is. Yeah, 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.320 and so you know, and I've been thinking about this 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:50.920 as well, and I realized this would be a perfect 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.400 book to to seek out again because, you know, given 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:57.520 Sagan's expertise in science communication and his willingness to engage 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.679 in ah the sort of open minded yet optical thinking 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:02.559 that we really try and pull off on the show. 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.800 So I picked it up and inject it out. So 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.880 in this book, Sagan set out to explain just what 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.040 science offers us as a culture, how pseudoscience and magical 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.920 thinking work against it, and indeed why many of us 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.679 are sucked into these ideas when science can both better 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.240 amaze us, I mean, and improve our our lives and 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.840 our understanding of the world. That that is one of 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.760 the key tragedies that the science communicator has to observe 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.240 over and over again. Is that like, say, you see 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:35.200 somebody gets sucked in by ancient aliens literature and they 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.880 you know, they they say, you can't explain the pyramids 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.360 unless aliens came in and did it. One of the 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.560 worst things about that is it's not just wrong, but 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.280 it cuts you off from understanding the fascinating reality of 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:51.400 how ancient people with very limited technology accomplished this amazing 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:56.520 feed of engineering and construction. The truth is actually more interesting, 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.240 but it's it's sometimes harder to communicate how interest thing 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:04.360 it is. Pseudo scientific ideas are often more interesting in 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:07.280 a shallower way that they've got something that can grab 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:09.920 you in one sentence, you know what I mean? Yeah, 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:11.920 So Sacand makes this point as well, But it is 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:15.880 this uh, you know, authentic shortcut to awe when the 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.120 real story can provide all. It's just it's just more 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.400 difficult to show how it provides all. Yeah. In the 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:24.560 early stages of the book, he talks about writing in 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:28.920 a taxi cab with his character that he he nicknames Buckley. Uh, 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:33.440 and Buckley is very interested in the world. Buckley's asking say, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:37.400 like he recognizes sagan Um eventually and civilizes He's the 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.320 TV science guy. So he starts asking him all these 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:43.160 questions about ancient aliens and the Lost City of Atlantis 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.240 and all these questions, and Sagan is just kind of 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.120 having to break his heart over and over again, saying, well, yeah, 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.520 there's no evidence for that. The evidence is super shaky 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.800 and that and and he you know, he points out 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.520 that that Buckley here is not you know, he's not 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.839 a dumb dumb He's he's a he has this q 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.320 reosity about the world. He wants to be odd. He 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:08.400 wants science. But for various reasons that that that Sagan 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.480 gets to it gets into in the book Um, the 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.360 media and and science communicators even have not reached him, 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.840 have not provided in the meal that he he that 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.439 he really wants and he and that he needs UM. Instead, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.280 he's left with the junk food of pseudoscience, and that's 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.360 all he has to feast on. Yeah, and it's unfortunate 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.560 that that's the dynamic, But you can see why it 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:34.160 is because giving good explanations based on facts and real 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:38.760 evidence and rigorous analysis, that that is all constrained. You know, 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.719 it's constrained by all these limits imposed by reality. There 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:44.600 are only so many things you can say that are 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.520 actually logically correct and follow from your premises. There are 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.200 only so many things that you can actually prove with 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.000 real hard evidence. You can use your imagination to make 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.920 up all kinds of alternative, crazy things to say that 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:01.240 can be interesting, and you're not constrained by those problem blums. Yeah, 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.480 and you know, back back to the idea of like 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.080 how do you communicate science, then how do you discuss 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.800 crazy ideas and balance them? Um? You do see a 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.120 lot of this done very well in uh Sagan's book here, 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.679 for instance, he talks about UFOs a bit because it 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.600 was then, as it is now, still a topic of 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:23.080 of of of great interest. You know people here about UFOs. 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.120 If you're like like me, you grew up watching unsolved 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.800 mysteries and you're just bombarded with these ideas. So I 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.559 feel like UFOs are less discussed now than they used 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.360 to be. I feel like that was a much bigger 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.560 domain of pseudoscience in decades past. Yes, but we saw 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.160 these stories of UFOs um that we're that we draw 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.720 on right. And one thing that that Sagan does really well, 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:45.640 and this is that he talks about say that the 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.360 Cold War sightings of UFOs and to what extent the 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:54.000 government was looking into these, and he goes into say, 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:59.480 weather balloons, observation balloon to high altitude balloon technology, and 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:03.000 we've all heard that brought up as a as as 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:07.120 an explanation for unidentified flying objects before, but taking as 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.320 a great job in this of really breaking down like 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.000 what sort of technology balloon based technology was being used 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.600 at the time, not only for observational purposes, but also 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:22.080 for intelligence purposes uh by the United States against the 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.559 Soviet Union, and how this would have played into possible 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.840 reports of unidentified flying objects. And this is a case where, yeah, 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.360 we've all heard the essentially the boring story at this 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.840 point of somebody seeing something unexplainable in the sky and 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.000 thinking it's aliens and having to embellishment or turn to 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.840 embellishment to to make sense of it. But these real 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.600 stories of of of of weather balloon technology and what 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.120 we were doing with them at the time is is 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.280 even more fascinating, just because I feel like fewer people 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.559 have heard the story, and indeed it's the story I 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.520 wouldn't mind returning to in a future episode. Well, another 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.040 thing I would say, though, is that virtue of being 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:05.720 true that story also connects with an ecosystem of other 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:10.839 true ideas, whereas pseudo scientific beliefs don't lead you anywhere. 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.240 You know, they don't lead you anywhere fruitful, like a 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.839 true belief leads you to other true discoveries and a 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:22.280 mistaken or false or embellished belief does not. Yeah, I mean, 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.640 because it seems like you're If you're suddenly interested in 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:29.280 hollow Earth ideas, then you're at best you're gonna wind 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.360 up reading about more ridiculous myths about like Nazi super 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.720 science or something, and how Hitler's on the moon now 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.080 or something to that effect. I guess with with it's 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.200 gonna vary depending on what your pseudoscience is, I guess 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.680 there are examples where, Yeah, if you're interested enough in 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:49.080 ancient aliens, you might find yourself learning more about say 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.400 Mayan or as tech civilization than you would have otherwise. 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.160 But it's going to be a painted understanding of it, right, Well, 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.760 you can only really get there by abandoning or ignoring 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.160 your initial premise. What I'm saying is like pseudo scientific 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:05.480 beliefs and stuff don't become useful premises in future arguments 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:09.960 or discovery. You can't really build a house on that foundation. Right. Yeah, 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.480 So this is a this is a book that of 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.160 course is as relevant now as it as it ever was, 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:21.200 especially with talk of post truth, alternative facts, uh, and 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.960 just stay disgustingly anti science trend and American politics of late. 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:28.720 So that's why there's a book I startling or strongly 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.320 recommend to everybody. It's available in all reading and listening 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:35.080 formats right now. Um. He Sagan spends a lot of 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.960 time in this discussing the allure of pseudo science, but 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.200 also how it gains power, and he points, uh, he 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.600 points the to the role of of our relinquishing of 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.640 civil controls and scientific education and how this allows for 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.400 the infection of pseudoscience and pseudo scientific belief to spread. 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.120 Points two examples in in pre war Germany also a 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:00.360 post communist Russia, a situation whereas the as sort of 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:05.880 the the controls are are relaxed, there is less science, 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.360 less scientific understanding in the in the among everyday common people. 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.520 Not talking about the the scientific establishment of the Soviet Union, 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.960 which of course uh was significantly advanced, but the the 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.720 average person, when the controls are loosened, what do they 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.000 have to turn to? They end up turning to some 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.080 of these science pseudo scientific ideas. Sagan argues, so it's 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:30.240 a good cautionary tale for for for today, for any age. Really, 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.920 I just want to read a couple of quick quotes 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.080 from the book itself, just to give you some Sagan's words. 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.080 Um for a short one he points he makes this point. 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.680 He says, pseudoscience is embraced. It might be argued in 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:46.320 exact proportion as real science is misunderstood, which I think 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.040 is is an interesting way of looking at a very 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.760 very apt way of looking at it. Kind of zero 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.280 sum competition between them. It's not like you can both 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.920 build up your scientific understanding and your embrace of pseudoscience 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.240 at the same time. They sort of they exist in 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.320 necessary competition with one another, and one undermines the other. 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.879 So if you hold one, it's undercutting your stock of 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.560 the other. Right, you know, one of the most important 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.439 things in this area, which I've been thinking about a 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:18.919 lot lately, is the danger of when you're talking about 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:23.840 embrace of scientific thinking, critical thinking, skepticism, rationality, all these 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.800 subjects that are very useful and very important, that you 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.480 want to be careful not to let it turn into 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.040 a kind of back padding exercise, where like, you know, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.720 we do such a such a good job of being 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.160 rational and being skeptical, and there are all these other 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.800 people out here who have all these mistaken beliefs and 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:45.240 and and letting it um. I don't know. I feel 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.640 like I see this occasionally and say the skeptic community 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:53.440 is a kind of um over reliance on self congratulation 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:58.639 for being skeptical, Whereas really the greatest job we have 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:00.840 to do in this is being critical of ourselves. I 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:02.680 know it It's easier to say that than it is 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.080 to actually do it. I mean, I know I'm very 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.560 often not sufficiently critical of myself. But but that's what 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.240 we should really be focusing on, like remembering like this 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:16.160 isn't something other people do, this is something I do. Yeah, 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.800 And I agree, and I I say that I have 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.600 to say that I I have to watch myself as well, 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:23.920 you know what I mean? And I have to ask myself, well, 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.480 this particular hypothesis, Yeah, am I Why am I attracted 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.439 to it? Like it is? It is it's speaking truth 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:33.320 to reality? Or is it speaking to some other need 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.840 inside me? You know, some religious need perhaps that is 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.080 not being fulfilled by something else in uh in culture, Yeah, 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:41.359 I feel like I have to be. One of the 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.400 ways in which I have to be very careful here 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.760 is like I feel that I am irrationally attracted to 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:51.199 overly interesting or cool ideas. I've brought this up a 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.720 lot when we talk about the bicameral mind idea. Now, 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.199 of course, as I've said before on the show you Know, 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.760 we did an episode about this last year. It's come 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:01.399 up a good bit since then. It's one of the 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:05.040 most interesting hypotheses I've ever come across. I wouldn't say 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.320 it's just like you know, it's just flagrant pseudoscience. Like 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.080 Janes was a psychologist, he brings a lot of evidence 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.280 and interesting argument, But then again, it's a radical hypothesis. 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.520 He asks you for, you know, to go along with 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.800 a very radical path with him, and so I don't 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.440 ultimately accept his hypothesis. I think he was probably wrong, 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.360 But I wonder if I give it even more credence 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.399 than it deserves, just because of how thought provoking and 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:34.000 cool it feels in my mind to contemplate well by 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.840 cameral mind hypothesis. One way I have of looking at 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:39.680 it is that I asked myself, is it a better 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:47.119 hypothesis for for the human experience than other uh theories 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.119 of consciousness. And I have to say largely no, I 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.320 think we have some better working theories of what's going on, 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.119 such as say, attention schema theory. You know, just what 0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:00.080 ways of thinking about how are limited cognitive ability is 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.680 are focused on particular tasks. On the other hand, if 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:08.880 you say, is it a better hypothesis than say, established religion, 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.640 then I would say yes. And that's I think that's 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:13.479 one of the reasons that that I'm drawn to It 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.399 is the part of me that wants to make sense 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.720 of tales in which men speak to God's or or 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.480 God speak to men, the part of me that wants 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:26.600 that magic to be real. Um, then in those cases, 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.680 the bi cameral mind is a far better explanation than 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:33.040 God's are real, or that magical beings and spirits and 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.960 elves are an actual reality. You know, you can almost 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:40.400 like use it as a personally satisfying mythology, even if 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:44.600 you don't think it's necessarily a successful scientific theory. Yeah. 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.800 So it's I feel like it's a weird duck for 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.080 me and that I can't think of another hypothesis that 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:55.119 kind of uh, you know, it occupies that middle ground. 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:57.760 But we'll get back to to the bi cameral mind 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:00.280 and a little bit. Actually, I'm gonna close out the 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.000 section on on Sagan though by reading one more quote 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.440 um from a candle in the dark. Science is more 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:08.760 than a body of knowledge. It is a way of thinking. 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.400 I have a foreboding of an America in my children 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:16.280 or grandchildren's time, when the United States is a service 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:20.440 and information economy, when nearly all the key manufacturing industries 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:24.480