Speaker 1: Welcome back to it could happen here a show about
Speaker 1: how things are following up art at least generally, a
Speaker 1: show about how things are falling apart, um and how
Speaker 1: to you know, maybe maybe not falling apart that much.
Speaker 1: But we have a we have a little bit of
Speaker 1: a different episode for you today. A friend of a
Speaker 1: friend of mine reached out to me recently in the
Speaker 1: wake of a pair of episodes we did From Behind
Speaker 1: the Bastards on sexual abuse within the Boy Scouts of America,
Speaker 1: which was, if you're not aware, and endemic problem, with
Speaker 1: more than a hundred thousand victims having come forward in
Speaker 1: the last year alone. UM. And this is a case
Speaker 1: that kind of ties into that. Uh. It's it's the
Speaker 1: case of a young man UM who committed murder and
Speaker 1: the young man who was also UM a victim of
Speaker 1: a terrible series of crime. So I wanted to kind
Speaker 1: of shine a little bit of light on the case
Speaker 1: of Heath Stocks today. UM. And to help me do
Speaker 1: that is Mr Michael Kaiser. Michael, welcome to the show,
Speaker 1: Good afternoon, Thanks for having me. Michael. Would you like
Speaker 1: to introduce is kind of your affiliation with this case
Speaker 1: before we go over the broad strokes of it. Sure. Um, Again,
Speaker 1: my name is Michael Kaiser. I'm a criminal defense attorney
Speaker 1: with the Last and Cassinelli Firm in Little Rock, Arkansas. UM.
Speaker 1: This case started in the nineties and I was I'm
Speaker 1: thirty two, so I was not practicing. Then I came
Speaker 1: into this case in the last two years after Heath
Speaker 1: has already I've been sentenced to three life sentences, and
Speaker 1: I assisted him in filing a petition for a commutation
Speaker 1: asking for the Governor of Arkansas to reduce those sentences
Speaker 1: to a term of years and giving him a chance
Speaker 1: of parole while he is still alive. And and can we, uh,
Speaker 1: let's go over kind of what happened in this case
Speaker 1: the basis because this is this is a really sad story, UM,
Speaker 1: and it's one of those things where there's there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of I think, easy answers. But yeah, let's
Speaker 1: let's talk about sort of the broad strokes of what happened,
Speaker 1: and then we can drill into what what you're trying
Speaker 1: to achieve. Year. Sure, so the broad strokes are back
Speaker 1: in nine seven, UM, when Heath was a young man, UM,
Speaker 1: just twenty years old. UM, he was arrested and charged
Speaker 1: with killing his entire immediate family, both his mother, father, UM,
Speaker 1: and his younger sister. He was quickly identified as the
Speaker 1: primary suspect, questioned, confessed, arrested, charged, and within I believe
Speaker 1: six months, had pleaded guilty to all three capital murders
Speaker 1: and received a sense of life without parole for each
Speaker 1: each one of those, for a total of three life sentences. UM.
Speaker 1: Shortly after he was convicted, UM, it came to light
Speaker 1: that his longtime boy scout scout Master Jack Walls had
Speaker 1: been molesting Heat since he was around age nine or ten.
Speaker 1: UM that it was a serial sort of abuse, that
Speaker 1: he that Heath was not the only one. UM, that
Speaker 1: it was particularly brutal, and that his abuse didn't just
Speaker 1: involve you know, sexual acts. UM, it was kind of
Speaker 1: a long term I hate to use the term brainwashing,
Speaker 1: but a lot of people have about what he did
Speaker 1: to those boys. UM. Heats is not the only life
Speaker 1: that was ruined. He's family is not the only families
Speaker 1: lives who were ruined. UM, but Heats is unfortunately the
Speaker 1: most extreme case UM where where he he ultimately committed
Speaker 1: a crime against against his family. We'll get into the
Speaker 1: circumstances in a second, I just want to add a
Speaker 1: little bit of clarification that the Scout master, we're looking
Speaker 1: at between a hundred and a hundred and fifty victims,
Speaker 1: kind of conservatively based on what I've been reading. Yes, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's it's some of I mean, it's so this guy.
Speaker 1: Some of it's the stuff that you heard in a
Speaker 1: lot of these other cases. Some of it is is
Speaker 1: very unique to this guy. But he would basically he
Speaker 1: would have people over, kids over camping on his land. Um,
Speaker 1: he would take them shooting, he worked for any munition company. UM,
Speaker 1: he would molest them. He would also like purchase prostitutes
Speaker 1: for them. And it was this, UM, I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of of really some of the worst abuse that
Speaker 1: I've read about in connection to any of these these
Speaker 1: boy scout sexual abuse cases. UM, it's it's pretty harrowing
Speaker 1: stuff when you read the stories of other kids, um,
Speaker 1: who were kind of in the same position that Heath was. Yeah, Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: you're you're correct. It's you know, every time you think
Speaker 1: this can't get worse, or this case is so extreme,
Speaker 1: that you find some other element that's more offensive, more appalling,
Speaker 1: more victims, more more families ruined down the line even
Speaker 1: um today thirty forty years fifty years later. M. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so how does the because I mean, one of the
Speaker 1: things about this is this is a pretty the initial
Speaker 1: crime here is pretty horrific, um, And I think it's
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where it is hard to
Speaker 1: have a lot of sympathy for he until you kind
Speaker 1: of learned about what this guy like, his his his
Speaker 1: role in the crime, because it was not just a
Speaker 1: case of, um, you know, a kid committing murder. It
Speaker 1: was a case of a kid being um, very deliberately
Speaker 1: pushed into committing murder, and potentially I think that there's
Speaker 1: the allegations being made her that he was he directly
Speaker 1: helped with it as well. Yes, Um, so you know,
Speaker 1: at first glance, yeah, it looks it looks really bad
Speaker 1: for Heath, um. But over the years, um, what we
Speaker 1: have learned is that what what really happened is that
Speaker 1: Heath had been serially abused sexually, physically, emotionally and otherwise
Speaker 1: by Jack for a period of ten plus years. His
Speaker 1: mother discovers the abuse and discusses it with her, her
Speaker 1: pastor another religious counselor. Uh. Heath informs Jack that you know,
Speaker 1: his mother is aware, and and Jack instructs Heath to
Speaker 1: do as he's been taught, UM, and and to kill
Speaker 1: the problem. UM. Jack was never convicted with anything associated
Speaker 1: with the death of of the Stocks family. UM. However,
Speaker 1: his first set of life sentences for the many assaults
Speaker 1: that he was convicted of, UM, when they were reversed.
Speaker 1: It was because the judge in that in that sentencing
Speaker 1: hearing said, you know that the death of the Stocks
Speaker 1: family is also on your hands. And because he hadn't
Speaker 1: been formally convicted of that, he actually had his original
Speaker 1: life sentences reversed. Every sentencing he got essentially the same sentence,
Speaker 1: multiple life sentences in additional years. UM. But yes, there
Speaker 1: there's there is a connection. UM. It wasn't known at
Speaker 1: the time, or at least it wasn't publicized, And if
Speaker 1: if it had been, I think the results of his
Speaker 1: case would be very different. I don't think you and
Speaker 1: I would be speaking right now. Yeah. And it's I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously like, this is this is this is a thoroughly
Speaker 1: horrible situation. UM. And when somebody commits three murders, I
Speaker 1: think even people who are very critical of the criminal
Speaker 1: justice system should agree that, like something needs to be done,
Speaker 1: But I it just seems so unfair to lock this
Speaker 1: kit up for his entire life without kind of and
Speaker 1: and and acting as if this was just a thing
Speaker 1: he did on his own, rather than kind of the
Speaker 1: result of a pretty horrific I mean, one of the
Speaker 1: most one of the most horrific patterns of abuse and
Speaker 1: exploitation of a of a child that I can imagine.
Speaker 1: UM And I don't know, I don't know what would
Speaker 1: actually like help other than getting him into a situation
Speaker 1: where he's not spending the rest of his life in
Speaker 1: a prison cell. Like I don't know what the long
Speaker 1: term for him looks like in terms of rebuilding this
Speaker 1: guy's potential to have a life, but it certainly starts
Speaker 1: with him not spending the rest of that life in
Speaker 1: a jail cell. The problem we've encountered, UM with Heat's
Speaker 1: case is the parole board, and many just even just
Speaker 1: people that encounter the case wonder why would he attack
Speaker 1: and kill you know, his immediate family rather than his abuser.
Speaker 1: And in the twenty five plus years or in the
Speaker 1: five years or so since this happened, I mean juvenile
Speaker 1: that our understanding of the juvenile brain, neuropsycho psychology in general,
Speaker 1: UM has has come leap leaps and bounds, and so
Speaker 1: we know that a serially abused child has brain damage
Speaker 1: from really about the time that that starts happening. And
Speaker 1: so in Heats crazy world, and we do have this
Speaker 1: in our clemency application. We've had UM abuse specialists evaluate
Speaker 1: Heath and see how he you know, his actions conformed
Speaker 1: to our current understanding. Within the crazy world that he
Speaker 1: lived in. He actually was making dare I say, the
Speaker 1: reasonable decision. So Jack had demonstrated numerous times over the
Speaker 1: years he has physical, sexual, and and even control over
Speaker 1: heats life. He can end it at any time. He
Speaker 1: explicitly and implicitly threatens the boys all the time. He's
Speaker 1: got weapons everywhere. He's a Vietnam veteran. He brings them
Speaker 1: out to his property, shows them how to shoot, shows
Speaker 1: them what he will do to those who you know,
Speaker 1: go against him. UM, So, within Heat's world, he actually
Speaker 1: made a somewhat reasonable decision. He uh, the bigger threat
Speaker 1: was was Jack. Um. He can't kill Jack, so he
Speaker 1: has to do the thing to appease Jack to avoid
Speaker 1: the more severe abuse. That's oversimplifying it, but that's something
Speaker 1: that I don't think we would have been able to
Speaker 1: conceptualize back in the nineties. You had the element of
Speaker 1: there's it's it's mail on mail, and we're talking about
Speaker 1: a very small rural community um, Central Arkansas, and that
Speaker 1: element cannot be overlooked at all as well. That was
Speaker 1: a huge thing that Jack was counting on to keep
Speaker 1: these boys silent. Um. He explicitly told them, if you
Speaker 1: tell what happened to you, they're going to think that
Speaker 1: you are homosexual and a liar. So there's just there's
Speaker 1: there's just so many horrible things in this case. Jack
Speaker 1: had decades of experience doing this, and unfortunately, because of
Speaker 1: his position in the community, the son of a prominent judge, UM,
Speaker 1: the longtime scout master, the community's man of the Year
Speaker 1: multiple times, UM, he had access to dozens and dozens
Speaker 1: of boys, in fact, entire generations of these of these
Speaker 1: boys in Lono County. Um Heat's case is just one
Speaker 1: of many. Unfortunately, it's the most extreme case and it's
Speaker 1: kind of tests the bounds of our mercy. But the
Speaker 1: kid that discovered Jack, while he's a hero, ultimately he
Speaker 1: killed himself and he's not the only one. So unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the Stocks family are not the only people who lost
Speaker 1: their lives and not the only people whose lives, just
Speaker 1: like he's, were completely destroyed by Jack Walls. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: this is this is an important thing to understand because
Speaker 1: when we're talking about kind of the lingering impacts of
Speaker 1: childhood sexual abuse, it can take a wide variety of
Speaker 1: forms and when we like but but it but it
Speaker 1: is important to understand that the damage it can do
Speaker 1: goes so much further beyond like the physical damage done
Speaker 1: by the abuse, like these are your your brain is
Speaker 1: still forming and growing when you're that young, and he
Speaker 1: this is one manifestation of kind of what can happen
Speaker 1: UM at the more extreme end, admittedly, um as as
Speaker 1: the result like this is why it's such a heinous
Speaker 1: crime to abuse a child in this way. And it's
Speaker 1: just I don't know, like you're right, it is it
Speaker 1: It tests the limit of UM people's capacity for I
Speaker 1: don't know, forgiveness seems like the wrong word, but like Clemens, see,
Speaker 1: you know, this again is a pretty heinous crime. Um.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I can't bring myself to
Speaker 1: think that what he endured leading up to this shouldn't
Speaker 1: have an impact on what happens to him afterwards, right
Speaker 1: like it does. It does reduce his his complicity in this,
Speaker 1: And I just feel it feels so wrong to say that, like, well,
Speaker 1: he should spend the rest of his life behind bars,
Speaker 1: Like that's just not I can't imagine anything could help,
Speaker 1: Like I can't imagine that could help in any way. Um,
Speaker 1: just writing this this person off forever. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It just is, it's it's fucked. What are the next
Speaker 1: steps for y'all, for your for the defense team. So
Speaker 1: at this point, we've already filed a petition with the
Speaker 1: Arkansas governor requesting a commutation. That's not a pardon, that's
Speaker 1: not something saying say that Heath is innocent. We're asking
Speaker 1: the governor to modify his sentences to a term of years.
Speaker 1: Forty year is in each case to be served concurrently,
Speaker 1: So in effect, one single sentence of forty years. Uh. Well,
Speaker 1: in Arkansas, you're actually at the time he was convicted,
Speaker 1: he'd be parle eligible at se So that's twenty eight years.
Speaker 1: That's not a guarantee of parole, that is just what
Speaker 1: it means, parole eligibility. So that's what we've asked for. Um,
Speaker 1: we think his institutional record speaks for itself, and if
Speaker 1: and when he is a candidate for parole, he hopefully
Speaker 1: will make parole. He's he's done everything within his power
Speaker 1: UM to do so. UM. If this fails, it's right now. Uh.
Speaker 1: We in Arkansas at first goes to the parole board,
Speaker 1: who makes a non binding recommendation to the governor. They
Speaker 1: have recommended that the governor deny it. UM, which is unfortunate,
Speaker 1: but again it's not binding. UM. The governor now has
Speaker 1: I believe until February or March of two to issue
Speaker 1: his decision. UM. He has not yet. UM. We have
Speaker 1: requested a sit down with the governor. I don't know
Speaker 1: if we'll actually sit down with Governor Asa Hutchinson. We
Speaker 1: will sit down with his criminal justice coordinator. UM. We're
Speaker 1: thankful and lucky to have the support of all of
Speaker 1: the remaining victims family members. So both sides of Heat's family. UM,
Speaker 1: you know we have we have extensive support. UM. It
Speaker 1: wasn't they they A lot of them had to work
Speaker 1: to get to this point, a lot of them had
Speaker 1: to understand the true impact of the abuse. But at
Speaker 1: this point, we have extensive support from both sides of
Speaker 1: his family. UM. As far as we know, there are
Speaker 1: no objections to his commutation application from from victims family members.
Speaker 1: The only ones that there have been are from the
Speaker 1: sentencing judge or from the sentencing court. It's actually not
Speaker 1: the same judge and the sentencing or the prosecutor from
Speaker 1: that from that county, again a different person, um, but
Speaker 1: they felt the need to object it. Should this fail,
Speaker 1: we will seek additional post conviction remedies um uh. In Arkansas,
Speaker 1: we have something called a petition for writ of ericorum
Speaker 1: nobis um. You can file it. You have to ask
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, Hey, is it okay if I file
Speaker 1: a petition back in the trial court asking them to
Speaker 1: consider something that, if we had known back in ninety eight,
Speaker 1: would have affected the outcome of the litigation. In this case,
Speaker 1: we would point to the we we've had heath evaluated. UM.
Speaker 1: It will point to that neuropsychological evaluation UM as as
Speaker 1: new evidence. UM. We couldn't fully make a connection at
Speaker 1: the time between his abuse and the offense to answer
Speaker 1: that question why he killed his family rather than his abuser.
Speaker 1: We now can, and so that's what we're going to allege,
Speaker 1: is that is that new evidence UM. Whether the court
Speaker 1: will will find that it is remains to be seen.
Speaker 1: When Heath tried this on his own about five years ago,
Speaker 1: the court denied it. He alleged the new evidence was
Speaker 1: the fact of the long term sexual abuse of him
Speaker 1: by Jack Walls, and the court in a in an
Speaker 1: opinion that really does not um you know, shows shows
Speaker 1: the lack of understanding of long term juvenile sexual abuse,
Speaker 1: found that well though you personally were aware of all
Speaker 1: of that in your own mind because it had happened
Speaker 1: to you, So that was not new evidence. And I mean,
Speaker 1: we know that the average male who makes this sort
Speaker 1: of disclosure, it occurs deep into adulthood. So it's just
Speaker 1: at every level of the system. Even today, we're still
Speaker 1: feeling the effects of kind of that old school mentality
Speaker 1: about about this, and it's unfortunate. We could talk about
Speaker 1: kind of the the car serile state and this idea
Speaker 1: that like penalty is the way to respond to any
Speaker 1: kind of crime. But even if you believe that, even
Speaker 1: if you believe that, like you have to punish people
Speaker 1: with incarceration when they commit crimes. He's done twenty five years,
Speaker 1: Like that's no one. No one is discussing the possibility
Speaker 1: of Heath not being punished for the murder, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's he has been not just with time behind bars,
Speaker 1: but the fact that his family has gone. The idea
Speaker 1: that the state could do anything that's worse to him
Speaker 1: than than the scout Master did, to be honest, is
Speaker 1: kind of absurd in my head. But UM, where is
Speaker 1: there anything that, like, I don't know, I'm trying to determine,
Speaker 1: like what can be done to help in this situation?
Speaker 1: Is there any way people can actually help outside of
Speaker 1: like you and the team that's that's working to try
Speaker 1: and sit down with the governor? Yeah? Um, I mean
Speaker 1: public support is is wonderful. The more people that are
Speaker 1: out the problems in Heath's case and with his sentences
Speaker 1: and that are reaching out to the governor, UM, the
Speaker 1: better we think our chances are. UM. I apologize, I
Speaker 1: don't have the email address on me, but the governor
Speaker 1: has several publicly accessible UM accounts, as does his criminal
Speaker 1: justice coordinator. Even just getting on Facebook UM and and
Speaker 1: bringing it up. UM, there's a Facebook account managed by
Speaker 1: one of Heath's friends. I'm in Florida called at Hope
Speaker 1: for heat Stocks. UM. It's a there's also a website.
Speaker 1: I think it's Hope for heat stocks dot info. It's
Speaker 1: probably the most extensive trove of resources in this case.
Speaker 1: It has almost all original documents. It's where I still
Speaker 1: go to access things when I need them, even though
Speaker 1: you know, I am his attorney. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: out there. There's a lot of ways to support the cause,
Speaker 1: even just telling other people about it. Um. We do
Speaker 1: have a documentary in the works. UM. I actually don't
Speaker 1: think it has a producer at this point, but we're
Speaker 1: hopeful to have something out in early to make fith,
Speaker 1: to make Jack, to make this case more of a
Speaker 1: household name. UM. The hopes that you know, if any
Speaker 1: sort of um, you know, if there's more support out there,
Speaker 1: more pressure on the governor, it will increase the odds
Speaker 1: that that will do the right thing here. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: this shouldn't be a political issue. There shouldn't be a
Speaker 1: left or right thing. Like everyone should be able to
Speaker 1: see this is uh, this is the result of abuse,
Speaker 1: and that should have an impact on the what we
Speaker 1: actually what's actually what our society actually does to this
Speaker 1: kid in the wake of the crime. Perhaps it's like
Speaker 1: foolish to hope for some sort of rationality as regards
Speaker 1: a case like this, But I would hope that we
Speaker 1: could be rational about this and everyone agree, yes, this
Speaker 1: kid deserves some the more than what he's gotten. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's a bleak one though. That's
Speaker 1: putting it lightly. New York recently recently passed a law
Speaker 1: that kind of acknowledged kind of where you're at with
Speaker 1: it for victims of domestic or sexual abuse who then
Speaker 1: committed crimes um that weren't necessarily during the course of
Speaker 1: that specific abuse UM. And it allowed people like Heath
Speaker 1: to apply for resentencing if they met certain statutory qualifications
Speaker 1: um for things that mitigated their crime didn't justify it,
Speaker 1: but that didn't come out originally. Unfortunately, in Arkansas, we
Speaker 1: don't have a similar process. The only thing we have
Speaker 1: available is this clemency commutation process. And unfortunately, as you said,
Speaker 1: it should be a political but it's not. It's it's
Speaker 1: explicitly political. The parole board are all appointees by our governor.
Speaker 1: The governor is an elected official. There's a reason we
Speaker 1: filed it in the last year of his last term
Speaker 1: in Arkansas. He has term limited, so we're trying to
Speaker 1: get him at a point where he's as free from
Speaker 1: the politics to do what he actually thinks is correct.
Speaker 1: But to think that politics will be removed is I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: it never is. No, this is this is the United
Speaker 1: States inies, you know, politics is is a factor here,
Speaker 1: and there's a deeply divisive case in the state and
Speaker 1: especially in Lono County. Well, it's hard I can imagine
Speaker 1: it being hard to talk with people about just because again,
Speaker 1: the nature of the crime is is horrific. And so
Speaker 1: if you talk about like, well, we we think this
Speaker 1: guy should have another chance at life, and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: but he killed three people, he killed his sister, and yes,
Speaker 1: that is the case, but that's not the only thing
Speaker 1: going down here. And you just have to I think,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're at all, even if you're not
Speaker 1: coming at this from kind of politically where I am
Speaker 1: in regarding you know, the car serial state, you have
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that, like, this is not a race Heath's ribes,
Speaker 1: but Keith's cribes were also the result of not just
Speaker 1: the scout master's abuse, but of a number of failures
Speaker 1: on a on a wide level in our society that
Speaker 1: allowed that abuse to occur. Um and so I don't know.
Speaker 1: I I feel like there's a lot of reasons why
Speaker 1: it behooves us to give this kid another chance. I
Speaker 1: don't know. That doesn't make it easier to convince anyone else,
Speaker 1: But yeah, well, how would this case play out if
Speaker 1: it happened today versus in even in a more rural
Speaker 1: part of Arkansas. I think our understanding of several of
Speaker 1: the issues here it is so has come so far
Speaker 1: that my hope is Heath would have received a term
Speaker 1: of years rather than being charged with capital murder. They
Speaker 1: originally we're seeking the death penalty, and he made a
Speaker 1: deal for multiple life sentences, both as someone under twenty
Speaker 1: one and as a victim of long term sexual abuse.
Speaker 1: I would like to think that if this happened today,
Speaker 1: even in that county, what we're asking for is something
Speaker 1: close to what what would what would happen? I hope,
Speaker 1: I would hope so that That's why, again we didn't
Speaker 1: ask for a pardon. We didn't ask let him out today.
Speaker 1: We said let him earn it, let him still feel
Speaker 1: the weight of of what he has done, but give
Speaker 1: him that light at the end of the tunnel, because
Speaker 1: you know, there is no one in the Arkansas Department
Speaker 1: of Correction. Even with the there's just not a victim
Speaker 1: like him there, and there's not someone who who could
Speaker 1: be an advocate for victims like him were he to
Speaker 1: be released. So yep, well, all right, Michael, is there
Speaker 1: anything else you wanted to get into with this or
Speaker 1: any other ways people might be able to help? Check
Speaker 1: out the website again, post on social media. Um. Uh.
Speaker 1: The one thing I think we didn't focus on here
Speaker 1: is Heath himself. Um. Heath is a deeply spiritual individual.
Speaker 1: He's someone who lives with this on his conscious almost
Speaker 1: every moment of the day. This is not not someone
Speaker 1: who you know, feels he's skated by by avoiding the
Speaker 1: death penalty. Um. This is someone who has had to
Speaker 1: learn about trauma, mostly on his own, because with those
Speaker 1: life sentences, he is ineligible for so many of the
Speaker 1: programs of the scant programs and resources that we have
Speaker 1: in the Department of Correction because they don't give it
Speaker 1: to people who don't have parole dates. So he's had
Speaker 1: to do a lot of this on his own. He's
Speaker 1: come a remarkable way. He's still someone that needs um
Speaker 1: probably extensive treatment and therapy to deal with his own
Speaker 1: trauma as well as to deal with the effects of
Speaker 1: what he did on himself. Um. But he's a remarkable individual.
Speaker 1: He's a great self advocate. I wish you could speak
Speaker 1: with him as well. Um. He's someone I'm proud to represent.
Speaker 1: Not just that I do because I get paid. Um,
Speaker 1: this is why I got into the practice of law.
Speaker 1: Is this type of case. Um, he is not innocent,
Speaker 1: but he is not. Uh, he should not be bearing
Speaker 1: the full weight of what occurred. While you know, Jack
Speaker 1: is serving a life sentence. I think he should have
Speaker 1: one or two or three more for his role in this.
Speaker 1: I mean heats youth and heats brain damage. Because of that,
Speaker 1: sexual abuse should have and now should be considered. And
Speaker 1: we just hope the governor will Yeah, yeah, hopefully so.
Speaker 1: And again if you want to learn more, there's Heath
Speaker 1: stocks dot info. Um. There's a lot of good about
Speaker 1: Jack Walls on there as well. UM, and you can
Speaker 1: there's a link to make a donation to Heath's defense. Um.
Speaker 1: All right, well, Michael, thank you so much for coming
Speaker 1: on today. UM, and I hope you have a good
Speaker 1: rest of your week. Now that's well, it could happen.
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