1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, four 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: team year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Enius Williams. Hello, 4 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast. I am a Nius Williams. 5 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: Today we're going to speak about something that's near and 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: dear to my whole that's the experience of going to 7 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: historically black colleges and universities. I am a graduate of 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: the Southern University and it's something that I treasured. Today's 9 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: panel features to all time HBCU greats. Matter of fact, 10 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: two guys that really Shannon and I stand on their shoulders. First, 11 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: we have all time great Harold Carmichael, who my dad 12 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: used to tell me about and they were last mates. 13 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: Are in school together at Southern University when he was 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: at Southern. We also have the Pride of Savannah State 15 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: Hall of Famer tight end Shannon Sharp uh the arch 16 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: enemy of Skip bay If Willie Lanier Super Bowl champion 17 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: head coach or Hank Stram I remember because the coast 18 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: the Saints. Uh. Morgan State University. Is it's still Morgan 19 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: State or is it it is still? It's Morgan State 20 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: College when I was in school NAS Morgan State University, 21 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: Morgan State University. It is so good to be with 22 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: you guys. Man, let's get it started. This is the 23 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: first of many HBCU discussions we're going to have, So 24 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: I want to focus this podcast on opportunities that are 25 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: presented by attending an HBCU. Harold, let's start with you. 26 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: An opportunity that Southern University presented you when you were 27 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: coming out and the late sixties, I want to say, 28 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: out of Jacksonville, Jacksonville, Florida, Jacksonville, Florida. Yes, yeah, well 29 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: you know, for me, I thought I had a scholarship 30 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: at Southern University UM. One of my friends that played 31 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: ball with that was a quarterback and he was my 32 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: fullback at William Raynes High School in Jacksonville, and we 33 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: thought I thought I had a scholarship. I got the 34 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: Southern got We called a train from Jacksonville to Baton Rouge. 35 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: I got off the train. That guy had a list 36 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: of names, said, when I call your names, throw your 37 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: bag on the truck. Name was never called you. Guy said, well, 38 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: I can't leave me here on the trains. Uh at 39 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: the train stations they get in the truck, got to Southern, 40 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: went into the lobby. When I call your name, come 41 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: pick up your keys to go to your room. Name 42 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: was never called, you know. So they sent me to 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: Coach Smith's the head coach at the time. He really 44 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: devil watched me. Please came to see somebody else played. 45 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: But he can you know by looking at him. He 46 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: sold me because he sold me giving this guy the 47 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: ball so and me throwing a few paths and so 48 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: he said, give him a room. And with the blessing 49 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: of God. At the end of my freshman year, I 50 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: was Rookie of the Year, Freshman of the year. When 51 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: they didn't call you, they didn't have They didn't call 52 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: your name. Did you think about getting on the train 53 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: going back home? I didn't have enough money. They get 54 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: back on the trail. Yeah, my mom just gave me 55 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: enough money to get there. And she said, I said 56 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: you something later, you know. So I got there, man, 57 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: and and you know this stuff is gonna I said, 58 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: what do I do now, you know? And that's why 59 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: I got you know, I'm just standing there and I 60 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: guess he saw it in my face. He said, well, 61 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: I can't leave. It's one of our quarterbacks. Uh, Willie Jones. 62 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: We all used to call him picking you and he's 63 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: he said, come on, we gotta check you. I can't 64 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: leave here. So you know, I got on the campus 65 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: and all and um again my name wasn't called. I 66 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,839 Speaker 1: had to get a room kick. He finally gave me one. 67 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: And uh. And then from that, you know, I always learned, 68 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just somebody to give you an opportunity 69 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: to take advantage of it, you know, uh do it 70 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: better than anybody else that can do it, you know, 71 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: And I learned that from my high school coaches. And 72 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: you know from that, I just you know, I guess 73 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: you can see I just took off a while. What 74 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: about you? Well it opportunity when while at Morgan State, 75 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: did you even think about playing the national football The 76 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: thing happens something what Harrold said, it is is that 77 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: you you don't know your pathway. And because I'm somewhat older, 78 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: and with the race being what it is and being 79 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: in Central Virginia, had an opportunity to Virginia State. But 80 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 1: I'm still in Central Virginia. So with that that summer 81 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: it didn't make as much sense to me to go 82 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: to Virginia State, because I was not saying, well, pro football. 83 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: I was thinking about a degree. I forget a degree 84 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: in business. I'm still in Central Virginia. So my college 85 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: quarterback had been given a scholarship to Morgan State. So 86 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: July of that year, I called a coach at Morgan State. 87 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: So my neigh is, wil I want to go to 88 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: your school? You called. I called a coach at Morgan State. 89 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: His name is their old Banks, said, I want to 90 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: go to your school. He's he said, son, I don't 91 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: know a thing about you. Well you need to know. 92 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: He's on need some film of the transcript, I said, find, 93 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: I'll send it to you. Because I sent the film 94 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: and the transcript to him. Now he's intrigued because I'm 95 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 1: a serious guy. So I ended up catching ground busses 96 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: here all called the train. I get up to Morgan State. 97 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: He could meet me at the train station. I take 98 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: the entrance exam. I school to stop Timberson er freshman class, 99 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: and he says me he doesn't have any money, as 100 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: I didn't come to ask you for money, as I 101 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: want to go to your school. I said, what will 102 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: happen is I'll take work study. His student along with 103 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: whatever I need to do in the first semester. After 104 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: academically athletically, you will do whatever you need to do 105 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: after that. And that's why I went to school. Hold on, well, 106 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:50,239 Speaker 1: where did you get this mentality from you? But before 107 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: it was that at different points, I was a quiet 108 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: guy until it was time to be somebody else. So 109 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: you're trying what what I'm saying is that you're trying 110 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: to listen and pay attention to things that are going on. 111 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: The race was a high, huge component because Brown versus 112 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: Board of Education. That was a that was a county 113 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: sixty miles from Richard called Prince Edward County, which was 114 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: rolled into that that lawsuit, and the county, instead of 115 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: complying with the decree, shut down the school systems in 116 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: Prince Vera County, so people look like us had nowhere 117 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: to go to school from ninety four. That was significant 118 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: in in my mind because for some reason they would 119 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: withhold that's us, took all the money and put in 120 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: white academist in that county. So somewhere in the midst 121 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: of my decision about going to college, I felt I 122 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: had to get away from that area as much as possible. 123 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: So with that, I knew that Baltimore Morgan State in 124 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: a city where it had an NFL franchise, which though 125 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: I was not thinking about it that much at that time, 126 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: but it felt like it was a better opportunity. So 127 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: once I got there, I became you could play as freshman, 128 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: so I started as an old tackle or whatever. Coach 129 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: moved me back that next year and then the rest 130 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: of it became history. But the whole point was you 131 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: had to try to define your pathway and then be 132 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: conscious and add to the story, I had not discussed 133 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: anything on my parents about my decision. They thought I 134 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: was going to Virginia State, which I had been offered 135 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: a full scholarship, and I said I'm out of here 136 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: because I had meant it meant more to you to 137 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: leave Virginia and go elsewhere as opposed to take the 138 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: full ride of course stay there completely completely, because I 139 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: was trying to define who I was going to be 140 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: and then and then doing that, I had to step 141 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: away from something. It wasn't comfortable to think about being 142 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: in Virginia watching other people who African Americans not having opportunity, 143 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: being limited in what they could expect, uh not being 144 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: able to fulfill your promise because this cap was on 145 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: environment and everywhere I could look around. So all of 146 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: that just meant something at that moment, and it was 147 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: the best decision I could have ever made because one 148 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: thing that happened, I'll let you all get back into discussion, 149 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: is that my college coach was Buddy Young's teammate, who 150 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: was the first black executive in the NFL. And will 151 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: you just go and expanded, I'll get back to that 152 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: a touch point. They'll come from that, you know, coming 153 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: out of out of Jacksonville. You know, the only thing 154 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: I was thinking about going to college, you know, thinking 155 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: about playing football, I was I would take a day time. 156 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: I took a day at a time. I took a 157 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: step at a time to try to be the best 158 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: person that that could be. You know, Shannon, your story 159 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: interesting and probably a little bit parallel to me. One 160 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: of the the things by the time you and I went 161 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: to college, times that change and men of color had 162 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: more opportunities. Now here's where in parallel Sterling, I've heard 163 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: you say, it's almost like your role model, your your 164 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: idol South Carolina Universe, South Carolina. Right, So, my brother, 165 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: who was eighteen months Achilties. He was that guy for me, 166 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: but he was at Southern right, yes, right, so he's 167 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: at South You follow what I'm saying, Yes, yes, Sterling's 168 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: at South Carolina. How or why did you choose Savannah 169 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: State my first year? In the first year of property eight, 170 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: you had to make seven hundred s a T to 171 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: get into any university, you know, for your institution, And 172 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: I only took the s A T once and I 173 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: didn't qualify. So by that time, everybody had started pulling 174 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: their scholarships from you, from me? And what was that like? Well, 175 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: at that time, I was like, okay, Savannah State. Uh, 176 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: Coach Davis, who's my head coach? He had already talked 177 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: to me and says I wanted and Uh. I remember 178 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: when he first came down there, my high school coach 179 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: wouldn'tlet him talk to me. He says. Coach, this kid 180 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: is big time. He says, I coached against herschel Walker. 181 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: I've coached to get some of the graces in Georgia. 182 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: This kid better than all of him, he said, You'll 183 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: never get him. He says. All the schools and the 184 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: BROWNSKA and Georgia, Texas, everybody wants him. He's not gonna 185 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: get him. And coach David said, just let me talk 186 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: to him. So I'm really coach a Hustan, who was 187 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: the coach at the time. He says, going there and 188 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: talk to him, give him like five minutes show him 189 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: that make it seem like an interested son. You got 190 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: bigger things to do that than go to Savanna State. 191 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: And so I remember talking to coach Davids and Coach 192 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: Davids his son. He told me, just like this extern, 193 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: if I was an NFL team and I had the 194 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: first pick in the draft, you'd be my first pick. 195 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: So that kind of like okay, yeah, okay, I like that. 196 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: I like that, I said, Coach. I'll give him some thought. 197 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: I said, but I really want to go as a coach. 198 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean that's you're really close to home. 199 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: I mean Savanna State is only like I was like 200 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: seventy five minutes from where I grew up at in Glennville, Georgia. 201 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, Coach, I really want to get far away. 202 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: He says, Okay, I understand that some of that. You know, 203 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: something doing to work out. Give me a call. Okay. 204 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 1: So it's now this was in in May, June rolls around, 205 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: July rolls around, and here it will start to be August. 206 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: And my brother called me, said, what you're gonna do? 207 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: I said, you know what, man, I called the Air 208 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: Force recruiter. I'm gonna go take the test next week, 209 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 1: passed it. I'm gonna go to the Air Force. He 210 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: hug on the phone. He came home, he's I'll tell 211 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: you what he says. If Savannon State still has a 212 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: scholarship for you, go to Savanto State for a year. 213 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: If you don't like it, you can say, at least 214 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: I gave it a try. I just didn't like it. 215 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: I went to Savanto State, and the rest is history. 216 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: Rest is history. It was the best decision of my life. 217 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: There's not one. And there are some decisions that I 218 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: made in my life that I look back on and 219 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: said that which I hadn't have done that. But this 220 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: was the best decision of my life. This. Everything that 221 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: you see that I was able to accomplish had a 222 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: lot to do with Savanto State. One of the things 223 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: about us is the culture at the schools where you 224 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: were started with you a Southern that that like that coach, 225 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: that track coach was for Shannon, was there someone that 226 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: encouraged you and within the HBCU culture. Well, you know, um, 227 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: one of the things that Shannon was talking about is 228 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: about that leak in house. My thing was growing up 229 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: in Jacksonville. We had no air condition, uh, no central 230 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: air condition. The only thing we had was a fan, 231 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: and my mom and dad had that, you know, And 232 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: I said, if I ever could make money, I will 233 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: never be hot again. You know. So I mean when 234 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: I right now, you know, it's like it was like 235 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: six degrees up in Philadelphia area past few days and 236 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: I had my fan going. Still, I'll never want to 237 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: be hot. I keep my house. You know. One of 238 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: the things that you know from high school, a lot 239 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: of people say your parents, you know, your coach and 240 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: all of that. My high school coach did push me 241 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: a little bit, but I wasn't the star, you know, 242 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: coming out of high school. But the guys I grew 243 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: up around, man, we we have each other's back. You know. 244 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: We weren't angels, but we didn't do that stupid stuff, 245 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: you know, and we are still pretty close to until 246 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: this day. They came up last year for me for 247 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: when I was here for the Black College Football Hall 248 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: of fame. Um, but we kind of helped each other out. 249 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: You know. Again, Uh, my basketball coach pretty much was 250 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: um he was my uh the guy that was pushing me. 251 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: You know. He was my basketball coach plus my baseball coach. 252 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: And now he's mad at me because I had to 253 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: try out with Pittsburgh Pirates in baseball. Uh in Georgia, 254 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: right outside of Jacksonville. And I get there, I've got 255 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: my cleats. No, I had to do this a sneakers 256 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: and you know when they hit them shots, I was 257 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: the first baseman. When they hit them shots down first base, 258 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: I was spinning in that clay trying to get to him. 259 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm about this, you know, this flour for making back 260 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: hand you know whatever, because I could not get that traction. 261 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 1: So till this day you could have played baseball, but 262 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: you know, just to have you know, that person to 263 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: push it was a lot of my friends, the guys 264 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 1: that grew up with, you know. And again that's hid before. 265 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: These guys are still behind me right now, you know, 266 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: will as you as you think about that one thing, 267 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: I can say all the time and I want you 268 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: guys are coming on this. What I got a Southern 269 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: University prepared me to compete on and off the field 270 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: at the highest level. And my question I would ask 271 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: you guys and your successes do when people later find out, 272 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: okay you oh he's from an h b c U, 273 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: are they surprised? Sometimes? Oh? Man either you know, I 274 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: talked about this all the time, and especially I talked 275 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: about you all the time, and I said, you know, 276 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: mel Blunt, I talked if they think these guys went 277 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: to all White's colleges and stuff, big university and I say, 278 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: they went to Southern you know, they went to morgan St. 279 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: They went through a historical Yeah, a lot of people 280 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: don't know this, but there's a lot of history in 281 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: the NFL that people don't know about. And that's one 282 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: of the things that I try to beat the drum 283 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: for it. Now Shannon National Show on television and skip 284 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: us outstanding job. How would you now those that are 285 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: listening who now have opportunities to go to our bigger schools. 286 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: What from your experience where you are now looking back, 287 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: that's the great thing about wisdom. What will you say 288 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: to some of our young African Americans today why it's 289 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: still important to strongly consider attendant HBCU today because all 290 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: the tools that you need to succeed in life can 291 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: be found at that historically black institution. Can you name 292 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: some of those tools? For me? I had some great professors. Um. 293 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: Norman Elmore was my English professor. Dr Haynes Walton was 294 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: a criminal justice and law and government professor. And I 295 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: really really got the impression that they cared about me. 296 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: They never asked me how did that do Saturday? They 297 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: never they never even mentioned football. Everything was that they 298 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: give me an assignment. And I think for me is 299 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: that they were impressed because I knew they know who 300 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: I was, but they give me an assignment. I turned 301 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: it in on time. Bakritique it. This is what you 302 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: need to do, This is how you should have done it, 303 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: no problem. And it for me, I mean growing up 304 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: how I grew up. My grandmother raised her nine kids, 305 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: my mom's three respect and you know here, you know 306 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: how I was saying, how the coaches told him to do? 307 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: And you did? That's the way I was. You did 308 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: what As someone older than you, they told you what 309 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: to do? You did? You ain't my mom, you ain't 310 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: my dad. You don't tell me what to do. I 311 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: got to listen to you. Okay, you're an authoritative figure. 312 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: I'm listening to what you gotta say. And I just 313 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: took that and I listened. Now, I don't think that 314 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: I know it all, um, but my grandmother just says 315 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: she would always tell me she has a son. Sometimes 316 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: manners and good friends or take your places that money can't. 317 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: So I've always tried to be respectful. I've always yes 318 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: or no, sir, someone's older than me, Okay, be attentive, 319 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,479 Speaker 1: never be a bit disrespectful. And I learned that at 320 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: Savannah State. And I just and I and I remember 321 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: going to the bowl games and everybody's looking at me like, 322 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: what was that was that? You know, because I had muscles. 323 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: I didn't go I didn't have you know, you go 324 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: to a major college and they gotta put a coach 325 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: for every position, got to tighten coat WI rety running back, dB, linebacker, 326 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: inside outside. My receiver coach was offensive coordinator, running back coat. 327 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: You know, he did all the job. But for me too, 328 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: and people asking, man, you're so well spoken, and you 329 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: know you have thought. Yeah, I got all that from 330 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: Savanal State. How to speak, what to say, how to 331 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: say it, how to articulate words, sure, there's a time 332 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: and a place when I want my buddies. I talked 333 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: one way. When I'm on national television, I talked another way. 334 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: Yeah I can. I can be two different people, but 335 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: I'm the same person. Man. I wouldn't And there's guys, 336 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: I would not change the experience that I got the 337 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: state for anything in the world, and a lot of 338 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: things that these professors I can still I still play 339 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: back in my head and it's so true. I mean 340 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: when you're young, you're eighteen, nineteen, twenty years of age, 341 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: like you listen to like Ah, and now all of 342 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 1: a sudden, I find myself from fifty got kids, and 343 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, man, you blessed. A lot of things have 344 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: to happen for in your life. A lot of people 345 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: have to care because a lot of times people think 346 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: they got there. Well I did this myself or I 347 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: did that. No, you did somebody else. Yeah, it was 348 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: the prayer that somebody sure that you didn't even know 349 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: it was someone opening that door. Sure, when the opportunity 350 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: presents itself, you need to be ready. But someone opened 351 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: that door for you, and mad Savannah State, I just 352 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: and like Willy said, it's Morgan University. It was Savanna 353 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: State College when I was there, and they got a 354 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: few more got a few more dollars and a few 355 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: more students of now So University. But the orange and 356 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: blew that tiger means a lot. And to see, well, Willy, 357 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: you was there in Houston when they had the guys 358 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: that's in the Pro Football Hall of Fame and Nils. 359 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: You were there also and had us walk out there 360 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,479 Speaker 1: on the field, and you saw all of those guys. 361 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: And you know, although Walter Payton no longer with us, 362 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: but you know Walter and Welly and Jerry and myself 363 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 1: and Michael stray Hand and Larry Little and I'm like 364 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: and and and the first thing that people is like, man, 365 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 1: I ain't know all those guys went to a blood Yes, 366 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: yes you can't. You can't tell the story of the 367 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: NFL without those guys. So you can't make me feel 368 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: no one even when even and people like man you 369 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: went to You went to an online college and you 370 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: went to a uh your colleague who next to a 371 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: piece of hunt. You can't make me feel I got 372 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: a degree. See you went to Mississippi State or University 373 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: of Michigan. I graduated from battate the difference between the two. 374 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: You went to I graduated from now who So what's 375 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: on your resume? When they asked you do you gotta 376 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: afford your education a degree? What do you what do 377 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: you put you went to or you have a degree, 378 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 1: because that's what I put on mine. I have an education, 379 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: So I don't let anybody. No one has ever been 380 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: able to make me feel imperial about where I went 381 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: to uh secondary education. No one, and no one should 382 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: make you feel less band because you didn't go to 383 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: some big institution that has fifty sixty thousands so or 384 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: you don't have Nobel laureates as your instructors. So m hm, 385 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: I can read a book, I can comprehend. I trust 386 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: their knowledge. Normandale Moore, Haines, Walton, Steven Smith. I put there, 387 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: and I put their knowledge up against any any professors 388 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: of doctors that teach at any universe. The confidence that 389 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: you gained from the universities I felt at a point 390 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: in two thousand that was a classmate of nine mine 391 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: named Jim Gilliam. He was in Balstimore, Marole. He had 392 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: become a lawyer. He had worked in Willingtondelaware, and he 393 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: gave our school a million and a half dollars. He 394 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: was my classmate and I was so proud to call 395 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: him and thank him and appreciate who he was. He 396 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: wasn't athletics. He graduated. We were in a business class 397 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: together and Jimmy rolling check for a million and a 398 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: half as a jim I'm gonna bust my behind to 399 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: try to do something because that from so and so 400 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: so in the midst of that, uh the fine Arts 401 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: auditorium that Morgan was opening and he had the theater 402 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: name for his parents and because he was Jimmy Gilden 403 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: from State of Delaware. I have a pitch at home 404 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: with Joe Biden. He invited him, and the former president 405 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: William Jefferson Clinton, he invited him. He was there, So 406 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: Barb Makowski, Governor Marlon she was there. That's my classmate. 407 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: The pride that I had in that. And as we 408 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: speak about sport and how it applies, we speak about college, 409 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: what it does. It's off the chart because we benefited 410 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: from others like us. We are here to tell the 411 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: story about what can occur the universities that are not 412 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: as beneficial to that student and that student's true need 413 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: for a cultural perspective. From the verst standpoint, my ability 414 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: to go to a majority's college when I was coming 415 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: out to school, I grew up in a safe grade environment. 416 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: So so that gap of distance, I can't imagine how 417 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: you could have psychologic survived something that was not nurturing 418 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:22,479 Speaker 1: to you. How did attending historical black colleges help you 419 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: at the level of uh, that level of competition prepare 420 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: for the weak? Well, you know, you had to you 421 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: had to be better, you know, you know, you couldn't 422 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: be just okay. You had to be better, you know, 423 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: because there was a statement, as we you said earlier, 424 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,719 Speaker 1: just because you went to a black college and stuff. 425 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: Your your degree or your knowledge is second grade and stuff. 426 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: You know, now speak to it, Harold, when you say 427 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: you had to be better, I had to be twice 428 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: as good as somebody, you know, the white player to 429 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: make the team. You know, um as you know, you see, 430 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: you know, I watched it a lot of times, and 431 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: I've been you know, in the in the game. You know, 432 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: just dealt with people, you know outside the game. You know, 433 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: I watched people get jobs and stuff. You know, their 434 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: resume had to be uh spectacular, But there was another 435 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: person that came in there and it was just not 436 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: of our car. They you know, all they do just 437 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: write a center and they get right in, you know. 438 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: But with with coming from those like I had to 439 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: be doubly good. I had to be twice as good 440 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: as ship, you know, to get that position. And you know, 441 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: people look at being fair and stuff, but that's just 442 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: the way it was, you know, you know, especially I 443 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: know what Willie and I will come, you know where 444 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: we came. You know, it's it was different, man. You know, 445 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: I was you know, my first you know, dealing with 446 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: around with whites. I was telling some people the other 447 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: last night, I said, I said, in my first team meeting, 448 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: I couldn't even listen at what they can't understand what. 449 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: I didn't hear what the coaches was saying. They had coach, 450 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: I was said, because I'm in awe of all these 451 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 1: people around me, white ballplayers and stuff, you know. And 452 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: I said, man, I got to be good because that 453 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: was the mentality growing up in Jacksonville. You got to 454 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: beat twice as good as this person. That was fine 455 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: for me because I grew up I'm the young you know, 456 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: I grew up playing against my cousins. I was the 457 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: youngest but at least two years, so basically it was 458 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: me and then my oldest male cousin was seven years 459 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: older than I was. So I always was and I 460 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: had a problem. And I knew once I got to 461 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: the battle because I remember going to the bowl games 462 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: and I remember calling my brother because he's already in 463 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: the NFL, and I remember calling Uh and Uh. I 464 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,479 Speaker 1: was explain, they they have receiver here better than me. 465 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,959 Speaker 1: I said, I'm better than all these guys. And I 466 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: remember when I got to Denver. I was seventh round 467 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: draft pick. I got to Denver, and I knew, like, 468 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to miss that you in the bowl game, 469 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: knowing pretty much, how did you deal with the seventh round? 470 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: That that hurt? I was to you know what I said, 471 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: I said, you know what all that? Guess what you 472 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: went to first round? You went the second round, third round. 473 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: I went to seven. They're gonna give you a helmet, 474 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: they're gonna give you show the pad, they're gonna give 475 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: you thoughpads. They're gonna give me ne tho pads. We 476 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: don't have to play. And at some point in time, 477 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: because you went to Michigan and you went in Nebraska. 478 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: That ain't gonna help you. Your skills. My skills are 479 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: better than yours. And I went to Savanna State and 480 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: I'm winning to bank on that. So for me, I've 481 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: always had the utmost confidence. Oh you wouldn't samount of sad. 482 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: I was, Okay, guess what Savannah State got the guy 483 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: from Notre Dame and the guy from Michigan as its backup, 484 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: and the guy from Savanna State to start. Guess what 485 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: the guy from Savanna State in the Pro Bowl starting. 486 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: The guy from Savannah State is first team All Pro 487 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: starting on the Super Bowl team. So you can do 488 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: all that talking about these big universities, but that they're 489 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: gonna get you, that they're gonna get at some point 490 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,959 Speaker 1: in time, you gotta put that hell but on and 491 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: you got to go make plays. Can you play? That's 492 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: what they need to know. Can you play? Because like 493 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: Bill Davids Tolba said, Sonny, if you're good, and I 494 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: thank you great, they'll find you. I think they said 495 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,959 Speaker 1: the proof is in a pudding. Guys, this has been great. 496 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: Thank you. We will be doing more hbc U podcasts, 497 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: so stay tuned. Thank you all the best is you 498 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: have to come. Thank you, thank you very much, appreciate you, 499 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: thank you for your time. Thank you man. This has 500 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback or request 501 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: the topic for discussion, email us at NFL Legends at 502 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: nfl dot com.