Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of questions. One, how's your health? Well, uh,
Speaker 1: funny you should ask, because uh, yeah, I know you're
Speaker 1: a person who takes health issues very seriously. And I'm
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you an exclusive okay, because because
Speaker 1: Gary Ker first told me a long time ago that
Speaker 1: I should pay attention to Bob Letts sets. And um,
Speaker 1: I think that was even back when you were on
Speaker 1: the velvet rope in those days. Okay, but uh, over
Speaker 1: the Memorial Day weekend, I had a heart attack. I
Speaker 1: was um, I had been feeling this. The impression I
Speaker 1: had was that I had really bad heartburn for a lot,
Speaker 1: and it was coming and going for a couple of days,
Speaker 1: like it started on a Wednesday night and then Thursday
Speaker 1: it was coming and going. And so I said, this
Speaker 1: is really uncomfortable. I'm going to call the doctor, and
Speaker 1: I set up an appointment for Friday morning. Very good
Speaker 1: doctor said, this has all the earmarks of um an ulcer,
Speaker 1: but you don't seem like the ulcer type. So let
Speaker 1: me real quick take a blood test, will rush it
Speaker 1: and we'll see what's really going on. So two hours,
Speaker 1: he said, you go home, lie down. I'll call you
Speaker 1: two hours later he called me. He said, Chris, you
Speaker 1: gotta call get yourself to the hospital. It seems like
Speaker 1: you might be having a heart attack. I thought, oh wow,
Speaker 1: because my father, I'm I'm sixty nine. My father died
Speaker 1: of a heart attack at age sixty seven. So I thought, oh,
Speaker 1: I beat it. But oh, anyway, I went to bridge
Speaker 1: you know Fairfield. I went to bridge Hospital, Bridgeport Hospital.
Speaker 1: They were the cardioc cardiology team was waiting. They tested
Speaker 1: me for COVID nineteen and make sure I didn't have that,
Speaker 1: and then they wheeled me right into It's not a
Speaker 1: surgery room. It was like one of these micro uh
Speaker 1: surgical things where they go in through your wrist and
Speaker 1: look at everything on video monitors. Oh yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the way they do it now. Yeah yeah. And I
Speaker 1: mean there's just a little tiny dot on my wrist
Speaker 1: where they went in and so they they found blockage
Speaker 1: in my lower coronary artery and um, they cleared it
Speaker 1: out and they put in three stints, and uh, three
Speaker 1: days later, I was home resting up. But I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you, I feel good and I'm very grateful to
Speaker 1: the good people at Bridgeport Hospital. So what's the rehab well, uh,
Speaker 1: changing to a more plant based diet. For one thing,
Speaker 1: I was a guy who I'm a bone vivant, you know.
Speaker 1: I like to I love to eat. But I've lost
Speaker 1: seventeen pounds since that happened, maybe eighteen. I didn't weigh
Speaker 1: myself yet today, and uh, I mean I was too heavy,
Speaker 1: It's true. And um, I I probably liked meat uh
Speaker 1: more often than I should have done. So anyway, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna change my diet. I'm gonna relax, you know, let's
Speaker 1: face it, I've got it made. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: need to like sweat, like new records or new anything
Speaker 1: like new tours. They're not happening anyway. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to relax and enjoy the fruits of my labors and
Speaker 1: my life. And I was sort of doing that already,
Speaker 1: but now I'm really gonna do it now. Since your
Speaker 1: father was sixty seven and he died of a heart attack,
Speaker 1: had you been tracking this closely? Probably not as closely
Speaker 1: as I should have. I was getting warnings, you know,
Speaker 1: from blood work and stuff, and I but I don't
Speaker 1: really like that anti cholesterol medicine, although I'm taking it now.
Speaker 1: Which one are you? Which one? Are you taking pressed
Speaker 1: door right that one? Yeah? And uh, you know, the
Speaker 1: statins have their pros and cons. But my cardiologist is
Speaker 1: a really good guy, and I'm gonna just follow his
Speaker 1: advice and keep taking it until the numbers are such
Speaker 1: that I can consider easing off. Are you taking the
Speaker 1: ubiquinol with it? I don't. I don't think so. No.
Speaker 1: Is that a supplement? Yeah, is supplement. It's supposed to
Speaker 1: speak to the side effects. It's c It's not c
Speaker 1: O two but without going to the other room looking
Speaker 1: up and it's something like that. And uh, are you
Speaker 1: having any side effects from the Crest store? Not too bad?
Speaker 1: Actually none so far. I mean, I know, I know
Speaker 1: the side effects can be one. One is depression, another
Speaker 1: is memory loss. I really don't want that. Well, the
Speaker 1: number one, I you know, I haven't had any issues
Speaker 1: with that, but with some of the statins I have
Speaker 1: had the leg pains, you get the muscle tightness, Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I've I've heard about that. I haven't had that, thank goodness.
Speaker 1: But I didn't want to, you know, talk about health
Speaker 1: the whole time. But since you started off with that question,
Speaker 1: I thought I better Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the
Speaker 1: Bob Left Sets podcast. We started, as I say, we
Speaker 1: got an update on Chris's health and he says that's
Speaker 1: fine for everybody to hear, so we're gonna leave that
Speaker 1: in and any event, my guest today is drummer for
Speaker 1: Talking Heads and Tom Tom Club. He has a new book,
Speaker 1: Remain in Love. It's going to be in stores both
Speaker 1: of the UK and the US on July one. Please
Speaker 1: welcome Chris France. Chris okay, it's a great pleasure to
Speaker 1: be here, Bob Okay. Now, Chris, why the book? Why now? Well, Uh,
Speaker 1: I've been meaning to write the book for many years,
Speaker 1: like a dozen years or so, and then a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago I finally buckled down and said, you
Speaker 1: better do this, you know, because you're not getting any younger,
Speaker 1: and um, nobody's writing any good books about talking Heads.
Speaker 1: So so I did it. I started about two years ago,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, my I feel like my story
Speaker 1: is a delightful one and I feel like I was
Speaker 1: very fortunate, and I feel like, well, I feel like
Speaker 1: it's a memorable tale to have been in Talking Heads,
Speaker 1: to have been in Tom Tom Clement, to be married
Speaker 1: now for forty three years, to Tina Weymouth. Look, I'm
Speaker 1: a lucky guy, you know. Okay, one thing anybody who
Speaker 1: reads the book will be stunned about is not only
Speaker 1: is it comprehensive in terms of the timeline, the detail
Speaker 1: is really incredible. Did you have any notes or did
Speaker 1: you just remember all that? You know? Most of it
Speaker 1: I remembered. But fortunately, you know, I I've been kicking
Speaker 1: myself for a long time for not keeping a journal.
Speaker 1: I knew during that time that I should be keeping
Speaker 1: a journal, and I just didn't. But Tina fortunately had
Speaker 1: these not a journal, but date books like you know,
Speaker 1: like the calendar book date books you buy at the
Speaker 1: Metropolitan Museum that has King Tutt on the cover. She
Speaker 1: had one of those, and she she would write down
Speaker 1: last night we played the Roundhouse, sold out, three encres,
Speaker 1: got paid. It's She also made notes of the hotels
Speaker 1: and things like that, like bed was terrible, or shower
Speaker 1: was too small, at things like that. So so I
Speaker 1: was able to Tina. Tina loaned me her date books
Speaker 1: from those those years I guess it was like from
Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy seven to nineteen eighty, and they came
Speaker 1: in very helpful because a lot of the information you
Speaker 1: get on the internet is a tissue you have lies. Well,
Speaker 1: that begs a question. Once you wrote it, I'm sure
Speaker 1: you ran it by Tina. Did she remember things the
Speaker 1: same way you had in most instances? Yes, although once
Speaker 1: in a while she would say, oh no, no, it
Speaker 1: wasn't like that. And uh she she has a the memory.
Speaker 1: It's very keen, you know. Okay, let's go back to
Speaker 1: risdy Rhode Island School of Design. That's where you and
Speaker 1: Tina went to college. According to the book, David dropped out?
Speaker 1: Why go to risdie? Why go to Risdee? To begin with, well,
Speaker 1: I was planning on having uh a life as a painter,
Speaker 1: and I had been in bands when I was young,
Speaker 1: a teenager. Um, and I loved being in bands, you know.
Speaker 1: I started off in elementary school and then the Beatles
Speaker 1: came out and everybody had little rock and roll bands.
Speaker 1: And okay, well let's leve on a little bit there.
Speaker 1: So you were playing in bands before the Beatles. Yes,
Speaker 1: actually I was. I was playing in No, I was
Speaker 1: playing in my elementary school band before the Beatles. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's let's cover something. So you're originally from where, well,
Speaker 1: I'm originally from Kentucky. But during my formative years we
Speaker 1: moved to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, which is where my father was from.
Speaker 1: And he was going into a law practice, so we
Speaker 1: moved back to where he had some connections. And um
Speaker 1: so so elementary school, junior high, and part of high school.
Speaker 1: Most of high school I was in Pittsburgh. Okay, now
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh is very hip. Again, What do I know about Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1: You know, there's the book Michael Chaban The Mysteries of Pittsburgh,
Speaker 1: which I recommend the darkest movie I've ever seen in
Speaker 1: the theater Mrs soulfil in Pittsburgh. But when you were
Speaker 1: growing up in Pittsburgh, was it a ship hole or
Speaker 1: was it an unknown hip city? Um well, I couldn't
Speaker 1: wait to get out of there. To be honest, I
Speaker 1: knew that Pittsburgh was not going to be where I
Speaker 1: was going to make my mark because I wanted to
Speaker 1: be an artist, and I thought, God, Andy Warhol wanted
Speaker 1: to be an artist. He was from Pittsburgh, but he
Speaker 1: had to move to New York, you know. And uh,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I have a lot of good
Speaker 1: friends still in Pittsburgh and fond memories of the place,
Speaker 1: but I just knew as an artist it wasn't happening
Speaker 1: for me. Okay, but you have to get out of there.
Speaker 1: But you said, uh, so you went to prep school
Speaker 1: for part of your high school. Yeah, I went to
Speaker 1: a Shady Side Academy, which is a fine school in
Speaker 1: in the suburbs of Pittsburgh. And so you still live
Speaker 1: did home at the same time, or do you live there?
Speaker 1: I lived at home. I was a day student and
Speaker 1: that's where I started painting. I had a great studio
Speaker 1: art teacher named David Miller. He went on to teach
Speaker 1: at skid More. But anyway, he um he turned me
Speaker 1: onto contemporary art, which was something I didn't know anything
Speaker 1: about at the time. Like he turned me onto Jasper
Speaker 1: John's Rauenberg, I knew about Warhol Ah, people like Ed
Speaker 1: Keene Holtz and uh Klaus Oldenburg and uh of course
Speaker 1: Willem de Cooning. You know. He turned me onto all
Speaker 1: these artists, and I thought, Wow, this is what I
Speaker 1: want to do, and that's why I went to Risdy. Okay. Uh,
Speaker 1: those are all generally speaking abstract painters. Prior to this teacher,
Speaker 1: Mr Miller, did you have an int Aushton art. Were
Speaker 1: you did you draw? Did you paint anything like that?
Speaker 1: I did draw. Uh. You know. I was born in
Speaker 1: Kentucky and my my whole mother's side of the family
Speaker 1: in Kentucky, So I I used to draw horses and
Speaker 1: stuff like that or my grandfather, you know. And I
Speaker 1: would draw on those shirt cardboards that you used to
Speaker 1: get when your shirts were laundry laundered. I never really
Speaker 1: thought of myself as being an artist at all until
Speaker 1: I took that class called studio art in high school,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I thought, this is what
Speaker 1: I want to do. Okay. So you said you were
Speaker 1: in the elementary school band. Is that where you learned
Speaker 1: how to play or did your parents give you lessons? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I started off on the trumpet and it wasn't really
Speaker 1: happening for me. I was trying, I was practicing, but
Speaker 1: I wasn't getting anywhere. And I and uh, I had
Speaker 1: a very good teacher. His name was Gene Wilmouth. He
Speaker 1: was a mallet instrument guy, you know, marimba, vibra, frying,
Speaker 1: xylophone and also piano and also drums. And he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can see it's not really working out for you,
Speaker 1: but you have a good sense of rhythm. What do
Speaker 1: you what do you say we switch you over to drums?
Speaker 1: And I said, cool, let's do it. And he gave
Speaker 1: me the little rubber pad and the elementary book of rudiments,
Speaker 1: and he gave me a couple of lessons, a little
Speaker 1: private lessons, and next thing I knew, I was first
Speaker 1: chair and the drum department. Now in the school band,
Speaker 1: you're just playing the marching drum whatever they call that, right,
Speaker 1: You're not playing a whole kid. Yeah. In the yeah,
Speaker 1: there was no drum kit in the In the fall
Speaker 1: and the spring, you would do marching and so that
Speaker 1: would be a marching drum. In the winter months we
Speaker 1: would have orchestra and I would I would hit a
Speaker 1: snare drum or a triangle or a tambourine. One time
Speaker 1: I played just the symbol, just the ride cymbal. And
Speaker 1: so what what what happens when the Beatles arrived? So
Speaker 1: the Beatles came and just basically changed everything overnight after
Speaker 1: their Ed Sullivan appearance. And uh, I remember the day
Speaker 1: after that, the girls on the School of Us were
Speaker 1: singing Beatles songs in Unison and they knew all the
Speaker 1: words and everything already and I thought, wow, So a
Speaker 1: bunch of my friends and I who were in the
Speaker 1: school band, just took the stuff to our garage and
Speaker 1: started started playing. We didn't just play Beatles, we played
Speaker 1: like the Ventures and Dave Clark five and uh what else. Well,
Speaker 1: we in my first band, which is called the Lost Chords,
Speaker 1: we actually had a trumpeter and a trombone in the
Speaker 1: band too, so we could play her Balford and the
Speaker 1: Tiawana brass songs. It was really fun. Uh. We we
Speaker 1: never really accomplished much other than having fun, but you know,
Speaker 1: fun is the best thing to have anyway. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so like the Beatles song. Um, so did you ever
Speaker 1: have bands that had gigs in high school? We had
Speaker 1: one gig with the Lost Chords and that was at
Speaker 1: the Presbyterian Church Youth fellowship Hall. Can you imagine a
Speaker 1: straighter gig than that? And uh, it was really fun.
Speaker 1: The kids went nuts and we had a great time.
Speaker 1: But mostly we just rehearsed and either my garage or
Speaker 1: my friends basement or you know, a lot of rehearsing,
Speaker 1: so you go to Risdy at all times. Maybe in history,
Speaker 1: being a fine artist is a challenging career. Did that
Speaker 1: occur to you? Yes, it did. One thing they tell
Speaker 1: you when you you go to art school is you
Speaker 1: know there's no guarantees. Some people say you can't even
Speaker 1: teach art at uh. Well, the fact is that some
Speaker 1: people can and some people can't. But um Risdi was
Speaker 1: not RISTI didn't have any like program that you could
Speaker 1: enroll to get a job after after graduation. It was
Speaker 1: you're on your own now, good luck. Okay. You played
Speaker 1: in bands in high school. It seems based on the
Speaker 1: book that very soon after your arrival at Risdy, you
Speaker 1: were interesting interested in forming a band. Yes. My second year.
Speaker 1: The first year I didn't play any drums at all,
Speaker 1: any music except you know, on my record player. But
Speaker 1: um I was really missing it, and um so I
Speaker 1: asked my dad if he would drive me up to
Speaker 1: Rhode Island from Pittsburgh with my drum kit and he
Speaker 1: said yes sure, So we brought the drum kid up
Speaker 1: and and the first band I joined was in fact
Speaker 1: a soul band, I mean a real soul band, and
Speaker 1: UH called the Brotherhood. They were all from Boston, from Roxbury, Boston,
Speaker 1: but one of them went to Risdy. The trumpet player,
Speaker 1: and so he asked me what I what I play
Speaker 1: with them? And and uh, we ended up again rehearsing
Speaker 1: a lot. And I must admit I was the weak
Speaker 1: link in that band because the rest of the guys
Speaker 1: were Berkeley School of Music guys, you know. But eventually
Speaker 1: I got it and um, I loved soul music. The
Speaker 1: challenge for me was the slower tempos. You know. The
Speaker 1: slow tempos are for me more difficult than any any
Speaker 1: fast tempo. So it took me a while to get
Speaker 1: to get it together with the brotherhood. We we we
Speaker 1: did one show, which was the Ristey Spring Dance in
Speaker 1: the what they called the Refectory, and it was very
Speaker 1: great celebration, very celebratory, and the band sounded good and
Speaker 1: uh and that was it. That was the last gig
Speaker 1: with them. So you have your drum, kid, you're in
Speaker 1: pro evidence. What's the next step. Well, the next step
Speaker 1: I was just playing by myself a lot with records,
Speaker 1: and uh, Tina, Tina Weymouth was kind enough to uh
Speaker 1: let me keep my my drums, or to invite me
Speaker 1: to keep my drums at her place, which was she
Speaker 1: was living in a little carriage house near Brown University.
Speaker 1: And it was right by the tennis courts, so nobody
Speaker 1: complained about the noise, and um I practiced. I would
Speaker 1: play along with the latest Marvin Gay record, or the
Speaker 1: latest Brian Ferry record, or the latest you know, goats
Speaker 1: Head Soup by the Rolling Stones or whatever. And I
Speaker 1: would try to keep in shape doing that. But eventually,
Speaker 1: one day a guy came to me, a friend said Chris,
Speaker 1: I'm making this film. He was a film student. I'm
Speaker 1: making a film about my girlfriend getting run over by
Speaker 1: a car, and I need some really cacophonous music. Do
Speaker 1: you think you could help me with that? And I
Speaker 1: said sure, I'd be happy to and uh uh, I said,
Speaker 1: bring your bring your nagare tape recorder over to Tina's
Speaker 1: carriage house and we'll do it. And he said, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring another guy to who plays guitar, a
Speaker 1: friend of mine who plays guitar. I said, great. So
Speaker 1: he brings this guy over with his tape recorder and
Speaker 1: he says, Chris, this is David Byrne. And um, so,
Speaker 1: David and I sat down together and Mark's instructions where
Speaker 1: I want this rising cacophony, you know, crescendo crescendo and
Speaker 1: then diminuendo. So we said, okay, we can do that,
Speaker 1: and I think we got it in the first take.
Speaker 1: And I had been I had this dream about starting
Speaker 1: another band at Risdey since the Brotherhood had kind of
Speaker 1: gone to put and I had imagined, you know, David
Speaker 1: Bowie had just come out and uh lou Reid who
Speaker 1: had this hit with Walk on the wild Side, and
Speaker 1: there was a lot of rejuvenated interest in the Velvet
Speaker 1: underground by by art students I knew. I thought, hm,
Speaker 1: we should start a sort of velvet underground ish band.
Speaker 1: And I asked, Uh, I had this dream that we
Speaker 1: could have a band that would entertain our friends. You know, no, no, uh,
Speaker 1: higher aspirations than that. Really, we weren't thinking about records
Speaker 1: or anything. And uh, I said to David, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about starting a band. Would you like to be part
Speaker 1: of that? And he said, yeah, I think so. And
Speaker 1: uh so we started a band called the Artistics, and
Speaker 1: uh we had loads of fun. And did you have
Speaker 1: any gigs we did? Our biggest gig was the Rhode
Speaker 1: Island School of Design Valentine's Day Ball and we played
Speaker 1: that and uh that was very exciting for us. We
Speaker 1: we played um that they had lowered the drinking age
Speaker 1: to eighteen. So we had a bar at rizzi called
Speaker 1: the tap Room and we played in the tap room.
Speaker 1: We played a couple of private parties and uh, just
Speaker 1: before we graduated, we played outside across from the Ristey
Speaker 1: Museum on Benefit Street in this little park on a
Speaker 1: nice afternoon in May, and that was our final show.
Speaker 1: And who was in the band at that point It
Speaker 1: was David myself, a friend of mine from Kentucky named
Speaker 1: David Anderson on guitar he's a painter now, and Hank
Speaker 1: Staylor on base. Hank was running PS one in New
Speaker 1: York um a while back, which is an art museum.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what he's doing now, but uh, and
Speaker 1: we and we would have guest appearances by one. One
Speaker 1: one of our friends named Tim Beal was a sacks player.
Speaker 1: He would sit and sit in from time to time.
Speaker 1: And we also had our friends Mark and Naomi who
Speaker 1: there um they were a couple. In their song was
Speaker 1: my Baby Must be a Magician, So so we would
Speaker 1: we would uh play my Baby Must be a Magician
Speaker 1: and Mark and Naomi would sing it duet style. We
Speaker 1: we had a we had a ball and how often
Speaker 1: would you rehearse? Oh, a couple three times a week,
Speaker 1: so you were taking it seriously. Let's stay at wristy
Speaker 1: for a second. How did you meet Tina? I met Tina.
Speaker 1: She came. Well, she came riding down the street. I
Speaker 1: was sitting on the grass in this little park and
Speaker 1: I saw this beautiful girl coming my way on a bicycle,
Speaker 1: a yellow bicycle. Uh you know, old three speed style,
Speaker 1: and uh she she rode past. She didn't look at
Speaker 1: me or anything, didn't notice me. But I was sitting
Speaker 1: with a male model at the school, like an artist
Speaker 1: model named Charlie. And Charlie said, I said, whoa Charlie.
Speaker 1: Did you see her? Wow? And Charlie said, that's my
Speaker 1: friend Martina. Charlie called everybody his friend, you know, and
Speaker 1: uh so, uh, I thought I gotta meet her, and um.
Speaker 1: The next day I had a figure painting class. It
Speaker 1: was it was the beginning of the school year. Had
Speaker 1: a figure painting class taught by a guy named Richard Murkin,
Speaker 1: whom you may know his work from The New Yorker
Speaker 1: or or other places. He was actually on the cover
Speaker 1: one of the heads on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts club
Speaker 1: band fash and a hat because he was friends with
Speaker 1: Peter Blake, good friends with Peter Blake. So anyway, he
Speaker 1: um Richard Merkin was teaching and uh, it was the
Speaker 1: first class of the year, and I looked over and
Speaker 1: there in the corner was Tina Weymouth setting up her
Speaker 1: easel and so that's where I met her. Now, how
Speaker 1: how deep into your career at Risdy, this is what year?
Speaker 1: This is my second year? She she transferred in from Barnard,
Speaker 1: so she was a new kid. Okay. Now, one thing
Speaker 1: that comes up in the book frequently is other men
Speaker 1: hitting on Tina. Okay, hey, how did that make you feel?
Speaker 1: And be uh, why do you think or what's your
Speaker 1: insight into Tina that she stayed with you? I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously there are a lot of stories the opposite, if
Speaker 1: nothing else, Michelle Phillips and the Mamas and Papa's poor Michelle. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, Uh, I was always okay with these guys
Speaker 1: who who I could tell they were coming on to
Speaker 1: Tina because somehow I felt secure in my relationship with her,
Speaker 1: secure enough that I had I didn't have to be jealous.
Speaker 1: I think they're I'd have been one or two times
Speaker 1: before we got married where I felt a little jealous
Speaker 1: of some guy or another. But once we were married,
Speaker 1: which was in ninety seven, I, uh, I felt confident
Speaker 1: that I didn't have to worry about such things. Okay,
Speaker 1: you graduate from Risdy what years at seventy three four?
Speaker 1: Then what's the plan? Then the plan is I went home.
Speaker 1: I I painted a mural. The plan was to move
Speaker 1: to New York. But I knew I had to have
Speaker 1: a little money in my pocket to move to New York.
Speaker 1: So I went home to Pittsburgh, and through my father's connections,
Speaker 1: I got a job painting a mural in a hospital,
Speaker 1: the Iron Ear Hospital of Pittsburgh. And the mural had
Speaker 1: already been des mined by some other guy and I
Speaker 1: was supposed to make blow it up and make it huge,
Speaker 1: which I did, and it took a long time up
Speaker 1: on a scaffolding, you know, on a stairway. But but
Speaker 1: uh I got I think dollars, Well, that's a lot
Speaker 1: of money. Yeah, And so I had enough. Then I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: I can move to New York now, which was which
Speaker 1: I did in in late September, and h or maybe
Speaker 1: it was early October. It was early October, and um, well,
Speaker 1: David had agreed to move to New York and he,
Speaker 1: in fact, he moved there before I did, and uh
Speaker 1: Tina had agreed, and the three of us got aloft
Speaker 1: together on Christie Street, which which I found after much
Speaker 1: searching around New York. And uh uh Tina's brother, who's
Speaker 1: an architect, said, Chris, don't bother about the village voice,
Speaker 1: don't look in there. Look at the industrial section of
Speaker 1: the New York Times on Sunday. So I said, okay,
Speaker 1: and he was right. That's where you found the good lofts.
Speaker 1: You know that nobody lived in yet. And we got
Speaker 1: a nice one on Christie Street, just below Houston on
Speaker 1: what is called the Lower East Side, and it was
Speaker 1: three blocks from cb GBS, maybe three and a half.
Speaker 1: Uh this is my friend who lived across the street
Speaker 1: from CBGB said Chris, there's something going on over at
Speaker 1: this club across the street. You gotta check it out.
Speaker 1: And I went in there and I checked it out
Speaker 1: and there was like nothing happening at all. It was
Speaker 1: in the middle of the week, but there was a
Speaker 1: like four guy is playing pool in the back. And
Speaker 1: I went back there and they were Latino guys and
Speaker 1: uh one of them was wearing like a shark skin
Speaker 1: suit and a tie and had a real sharp crew cut,
Speaker 1: I thought, So I asked him, you know what's going on?
Speaker 1: Is there are going to be any music tonight? You said,
Speaker 1: in a very heavy Mexican accent, No, man, not tonight.
Speaker 1: But you come back on the weekend the Ramons will
Speaker 1: be here. And I thought, oh, a Mexican band. Interesting,
Speaker 1: And uh, well I came back on the weekend the
Speaker 1: Ramones were there, and I soon found out they were
Speaker 1: not a Mexican band. Well what else would you like
Speaker 1: to know? Well, know what, I guess what I'm asking
Speaker 1: is when you, David and Tina moved to New York,
Speaker 1: is your plan to be a painter or a rock
Speaker 1: and roll musician? Well, we we, David and I hoped
Speaker 1: to be rock and roll musicians. And because we felt like,
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're young. We can do this while
Speaker 1: we're young. If if we don't succeed, we can we
Speaker 1: can be painters or you know whatever, conceptual artists, whatever
Speaker 1: we want to be, and we'll still be considered young
Speaker 1: painters at age forty or whatever. Um, we we kept
Speaker 1: in touch with the art world. We were we were
Speaker 1: very you know, closely knit with the art world, and
Speaker 1: in fact, a lot of people that came to c
Speaker 1: B GBS to hear us and the other bands play.
Speaker 1: We're artists of various types, you know, um, people in
Speaker 1: the visual arts, people in the performing arts. You know.
Speaker 1: Philip Philip Glass would come to see us, you know,
Speaker 1: and at that point in time, he kind of already
Speaker 1: was Philip Glass, right, Yes, well it was early on,
Speaker 1: but he he already had a very high reputation downtown. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so what is everybody doing to stay alive? Um, I
Speaker 1: had a h day. We all had day jobs. Mine
Speaker 1: was I was a stock boy and shipper for for
Speaker 1: Design Research, which we sold fancy European furniture and housewares,
Speaker 1: and uh it was really fun because the store was
Speaker 1: full of all these beautiful shop girls, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: sales girls. And we also sold Merimecho clothing from Sweden,
Speaker 1: so they all wore the striped merrime Echo t shirts.
Speaker 1: And uh. There are a couple of poets that worked
Speaker 1: with me down in the basement where we would we
Speaker 1: would unload things off of trucks and then after they
Speaker 1: get sold. We put them back on the trucks. Uh,
Speaker 1: it was. It was a good, good day job. Nice people.
Speaker 1: What did David David David, a friend of ours had resigned.
Speaker 1: A friend of ours got a job at the at
Speaker 1: the Museum of Modern Art, and he left his job
Speaker 1: at an ad agency, also on fifty seventh Street. We
Speaker 1: all worked on fifty seventh Street, which is so funny,
Speaker 1: but uh so David went help make ads for people
Speaker 1: like Prince Macha Belli and um Sergio Valenti and things
Speaker 1: like that back in the seventies. And Tina was working
Speaker 1: at Henry ben Dell, which was a very exclusive only
Speaker 1: recently went out of business because of Trump's you know,
Speaker 1: uh screwing up Fifth Avenue and they lost all their business. Okay,
Speaker 1: with was David actually designing ads? No, he was operating
Speaker 1: a stat machine, you know, photograph, photographing parts of the
Speaker 1: ads and putting them together. So how does Tina become
Speaker 1: a member of the band. I had actually asked Tina
Speaker 1: to become a member of the band when we had
Speaker 1: the artistics, when we were forming it, and she said,
Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, that's a guy's thing. I'll be
Speaker 1: very I'll support you in your efforts, but I don't
Speaker 1: want to. No, she she just felt like it was
Speaker 1: a bad idea, and um, but I kept after her
Speaker 1: because I felt like the band we were gonna I
Speaker 1: was forming with David was going to be a very
Speaker 1: different type of band in terms of appearance and also sound,
Speaker 1: and we weren't going to be like copying The Who
Speaker 1: or the Rolling Stones or even the Velvet Underground. Really, uh,
Speaker 1: we were going to be uh more unusual, uh than
Speaker 1: than what people might have anticipated. You know, that we
Speaker 1: were trying to be different and interesting. And I knew
Speaker 1: that Tina share the similar aesthetic artistically, that she she
Speaker 1: got what we were trying to do even before she
Speaker 1: you know, started playing with us. And also I knew
Speaker 1: that she had a fantastic sense of rhythm from dancing
Speaker 1: with her and just you know, embracing her and you know,
Speaker 1: when the records come on, when our favorite songs come on,
Speaker 1: we would dance, you know, and I knew that she could,
Speaker 1: you know, really feel the rhythm. So I kept asking her,
Speaker 1: and I kept asking her, and she kept saying, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: not a good idea. It's a it's a boy's club.
Speaker 1: But then one day she walked into the loft with
Speaker 1: a Fender Precision bass that she'd been putting down like
Speaker 1: five dollars a week on for months evidently, and uh,
Speaker 1: one of the happiest days in my life. Well, I
Speaker 1: think she may have been the progenitor of female musician
Speaker 1: bass players in terms of rock bands. I don't remember
Speaker 1: anybody playing that role before that. I'm sure people email,
Speaker 1: Well there was Susie Quatro was was of course. Well,
Speaker 1: I had a couple of Susie Quatro records and on
Speaker 1: one of them she even kind of looks like Tina,
Speaker 1: And I said, Tina, look at this, and uh but uh,
Speaker 1: and of course there's a great Carol Kay who teena
Speaker 1: session bass player who Tina admires greatly. Um, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure there were plenty others, but yeah, Tina was one
Speaker 1: of the first down in uh Lower Manhattan to do it. Okay,
Speaker 1: Now Tina is in the act when you finally play
Speaker 1: CB GBS. Yes, yes, our first gig. It was in
Speaker 1: in May of nineteen seventy five. And how did you
Speaker 1: get that gig? I walked in, I asked Hilly Crystal,
Speaker 1: the owner, I have this band and we'd like to audition,
Speaker 1: and he said what kind of music you play? And
Speaker 1: I said, well, we play in a style of our own.
Speaker 1: And he chuckled like he'd heard that one before, I think,
Speaker 1: and uh he said okay. You know, he had a
Speaker 1: very basso voice. He said, okay, I suppose I could
Speaker 1: put you on in front of the Ramones. And I said,
Speaker 1: all right, we'll We'll take it. And that was our
Speaker 1: audition night. Um, which was I think three days later.
Speaker 1: So we had to think of a name. We didn't
Speaker 1: even have a name yet, so we had to think
Speaker 1: of a name, and our are our One of our
Speaker 1: friends from Risty was visiting us at the time. He uh,
Speaker 1: he now has a job at the Art Institute of Chicago.
Speaker 1: But anyway, he said, he said, I've been I was
Speaker 1: reading TV Guide and they have a glossary of television
Speaker 1: technical terms, and one of the terms is talking head.
Speaker 1: It means the the most boring but also the most
Speaker 1: informative format of broadcasting. So we thought to ourselves, talking heads,
Speaker 1: talking heads, that sounds good and we could relate to
Speaker 1: it because it didn't connote any particular type of music
Speaker 1: like heavy metal or country or you know, hard rock
Speaker 1: or disco. Talking Heads. It could be anything. So we
Speaker 1: went with that name, and we put Tina and I
Speaker 1: had little t shirts made that said talking Heads on it,
Speaker 1: and we walked through uh, Washington Square Park with it
Speaker 1: with it on, and people would say, are you guys
Speaker 1: in a band? Things like that, and so we thought, hmm,
Speaker 1: I think this talking Heads name might work out. And
Speaker 1: and that particular shirt of Tina's is now in the
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which, uh is kind
Speaker 1: of sweet. Now, if you read the book, you find
Speaker 1: out essentially you met everybody, but in that scene it's
Speaker 1: CB G B of course, the guys from television, people
Speaker 1: from Blondie, etcetera. Did you have the feeling that this
Speaker 1: was in retrospect? Of course, it was really percolating a
Speaker 1: big scene, and almost all of those acts got record deals,
Speaker 1: some went on to great success. Did you have that
Speaker 1: vibe when you were ave it? Yes, I had. I
Speaker 1: had the impression that it was, you know, it started
Speaker 1: off really small, and even then with television, Patti Smith, Blondie,
Speaker 1: the Ramoons, ourselves band called the Mumps, even even when
Speaker 1: they were only people in the audience on a given night.
Speaker 1: I had the idea. I had the feeling that something, um,
Speaker 1: something was getting really cool and good and and that
Speaker 1: uh cb GBS was going to be like an incubator
Speaker 1: for a scene where bands could sort of play their
Speaker 1: play their original songs and maybe maybe they would not
Speaker 1: even get through the song without making a big mistake
Speaker 1: or something. But the audience was so small that not
Speaker 1: that many people notice, and there was no internet, so
Speaker 1: you you could make a mistake, you could have a
Speaker 1: very awkward performance and uh still come back and do
Speaker 1: it again the following week. And so it was that
Speaker 1: kind of scene and uh, everybody was kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: just learning how to do this, how to be a performer.
Speaker 1: Petty Smith was a pretty good performer right from the
Speaker 1: yet go because she had been doing poetry readings and
Speaker 1: things and she had she had a lot of charisma.
Speaker 1: Um But as this has more and more people came
Speaker 1: and the band's got better and better, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you had people from like Japan and London
Speaker 1: and Hamburg, Germany, and people coming up from Atlanta, and
Speaker 1: it just started to be, uh, a very exciting scene
Speaker 1: and and there would be suddenly there would be lines
Speaker 1: outside to get in, and yeah, I felt like, uh,
Speaker 1: very fortunate to have been in the right place at
Speaker 1: the right time. Now, needless to say, as you referenced earlier,
Speaker 1: Talking Heads has a unique sound. Did it audience or
Speaker 1: didn't resonate with the audience? Did you generate fans from
Speaker 1: the beginning? Some people didn't get it. I think some
Speaker 1: people still don't get it. But you know, the Kings
Speaker 1: of downtown New York rock at that time, or the
Speaker 1: New York Dolls and the various spinoffs of the New
Speaker 1: York Dolls, and uh, we liked them. They were really
Speaker 1: cool and everything, but we we certainly working to be
Speaker 1: parading around in platform shoes and like purple trousers and stuff.
Speaker 1: So um, there were some people that we were so
Speaker 1: a contrary to the New York Dolls aesthetic that they
Speaker 1: didn't really get us at first. But then eventually even
Speaker 1: even some of the people who really didn't get us
Speaker 1: came around. Okay, so how did Jerry get in the band? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, Jerry Harrison was in the Modern Lovers, which
Speaker 1: was a band that we greatly admired and played their
Speaker 1: record a lot. Their record was produced, It was actually
Speaker 1: a demo produced by John Kale that was later released
Speaker 1: as an album. Uh, and we have been listening to that.
Speaker 1: And I went home to Pittsburgh one time and one
Speaker 1: of my mother's friends said, you know, Chris, my nephew
Speaker 1: is in a band in Boston and they're really good.
Speaker 1: And I said, who are they. What's the name of
Speaker 1: the band. He said, oh, the Modern Lovers. Now I
Speaker 1: knew that The Modern Lovers had broken up. Evidently she
Speaker 1: didn't know it yet, but I said, oh, what's your
Speaker 1: nephew his name and she said Ernie Brooks. I said, oh,
Speaker 1: the bass players. She said yeah, and she she gave
Speaker 1: me Ernie's contacts. So I had Ernie's contacts, and UM
Speaker 1: went went back to New York from Pittsburgh, and I
Speaker 1: like the next day or a couple of days later,
Speaker 1: I was in a restaurant owned by Mickey Ruskin, who
Speaker 1: who found in Max's Kansas City. But this this was
Speaker 1: called The Local and h one of the cooks was
Speaker 1: Julian Schnabelieva. Yeah, and uh so they were famous for
Speaker 1: their hamburgers and their red wine. So we were having
Speaker 1: some hamburger and a red wine, and Tina and David
Speaker 1: and I and I looked across the room and who
Speaker 1: should I see. But Ernie Brooks. I recognized him by
Speaker 1: his big head of curly hair that he had on
Speaker 1: the album cover. So I walked over and I said, hey, Ernie,
Speaker 1: I was just talking to your aunt in Pittsburgh. And
Speaker 1: he said, oh, yeah, the Showers Liz Liz Shower. I said, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: and she's a friend of my mother's and she said
Speaker 1: that I should get in touch with you. So here
Speaker 1: I am. And he said, well, what's happening. What do
Speaker 1: you guys do and and I said, well, you know,
Speaker 1: actually we're looking for a third member of the band,
Speaker 1: some somebody who can help us, you know, fill out
Speaker 1: the sound and make the songs more beautiful. And um,
Speaker 1: he said, well who what what instrument are you looking for?
Speaker 1: I said keyboards maybe maybe keyboards and guitar And he
Speaker 1: said have you have you thought of Jerry Harrison? And
Speaker 1: I said wow, I would love to get in touch
Speaker 1: with Jerry Harrison. And Ernie gave me a number, so
Speaker 1: I called up Jerry and Jerry said, well guess what. Um,
Speaker 1: he said, this is very interesting, but guess what. I
Speaker 1: just enrolled in a master's program for architecture here at
Speaker 1: Harvard and UH and besides that the breakup of the
Speaker 1: Modern Lovers was a very difficult experience for me. So
Speaker 1: I'm not going to rush into anything, but I'd be
Speaker 1: interested to hear you play. So I said, okay, we'll
Speaker 1: we'll plan a gig up and up in Boston and
Speaker 1: you can come hear us play, which we did, and
Speaker 1: one thing led to another, and when we when we
Speaker 1: finally had a recording contract, Jerry said, okay, I'd like
Speaker 1: to join the band. He had played with us a
Speaker 1: few times before that, you know, so we knew that
Speaker 1: it worked well. Uh. You know you mentioned that he's
Speaker 1: a single child in the book and he's at Harvard.
Speaker 1: How difficult was it for him to drop out? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, I I never asked Jerry how difficult it was,
Speaker 1: but he did. He did that, I think he did.
Speaker 1: I think he did one semester, maybe even did a
Speaker 1: full year. He might have done a full year. So
Speaker 1: how do you get a record deal? How did we? Uh?
Speaker 1: We had people approaching us offering us record deals, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I can think of three off the top
Speaker 1: of my head, and one of them was seymour Stein
Speaker 1: of Sire Records. And uh, we had made a couple
Speaker 1: of demos, and we we listened back to these demos
Speaker 1: and we thought, uh, we're not ready yet. This is
Speaker 1: you know, we can rock cb GBS, but we're not
Speaker 1: gonna like rock the billboard charts sounding like we do now.
Speaker 1: And uh we we knew that if if we put
Speaker 1: out a record too soon and it wasn't up to
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't happening, then we might not get
Speaker 1: a chance to do do one. We might not get
Speaker 1: another chance. So we were very careful. Seymour offered us
Speaker 1: this deal and we made him wait for a year
Speaker 1: and a half, eighteen months, and he was poor guy,
Speaker 1: was so nervous that some other record company was gonna
Speaker 1: snatch us up in the meantime. But but we knew,
Speaker 1: we had a feeling about Seymour and in his company's sire,
Speaker 1: that they were independent, that they were in New York.
Speaker 1: They their offices were on a town in a townhouse
Speaker 1: on West seventy four a Street, and we could, according
Speaker 1: to Seymour, any anyway, We could go there any time
Speaker 1: we wanted and talk to him. So we thought that
Speaker 1: sounds a lot better than some guy in you know,
Speaker 1: l a or at the top of a skyscraper in
Speaker 1: New York. Who who you know? We can't even get
Speaker 1: in to see him. Uh, and so we decided to
Speaker 1: go with Seymour. We had we asked Danny Fields, who
Speaker 1: was managing the Ramons. We said, Danny, what's your experience?
Speaker 1: The Ramans were on Sire and Dan Danny, what's your
Speaker 1: experience with Sire Records? And he said, well, Chris in
Speaker 1: a nutshell, Seymour is always done right by us, And
Speaker 1: that was like all I needed to know. He's Danny
Speaker 1: also said, you know, no record company is perfect. With
Speaker 1: any record company, you need somebody to tell them what
Speaker 1: to do. But um, uh but Seymour has always done
Speaker 1: right by us. So so we signed a deal with Seymour.
Speaker 1: And uh, I'm really glad we did because it worked
Speaker 1: out great. Okay, so you make the first record. Needless
Speaker 1: to say, the first record sounds very different from what
Speaker 1: came thereafter talking had sent Were you happy with the
Speaker 1: result at the time? Yeah? I was. I I um,
Speaker 1: I'm still happy with the result. It's it's a very
Speaker 1: sweet um and uh rich that sounding album. I I
Speaker 1: think my way of thinking about it is it was
Speaker 1: a great start, great beginning, and I when I listened
Speaker 1: to it today. If I listened to a song like
Speaker 1: Don't Worry about the Government or Psycho Killer or Pulled Up,
Speaker 1: I think, Wow, we were we were really something. Okay,
Speaker 1: so the first album comes out, do you have a
Speaker 1: feeling there's momentum. I we had momentum in uh sort
Speaker 1: of like the big cities, but we didn't We didn't
Speaker 1: have any worldwide momentum. And I remember looking at the
Speaker 1: charts and thinking, uh, well, we're not really doing that great.
Speaker 1: But the fact is that that we were, um, we
Speaker 1: were making a big impression and establishing a reputation for
Speaker 1: being artists, you know. Um and uh we we we
Speaker 1: um we we we we. We had sort of like
Speaker 1: the best of the best world we could possibly have.
Speaker 1: We we had some commercial success, not a huge, huge amount,
Speaker 1: but enough that we can make another record. We had
Speaker 1: artistic success, which was validated, you know, by the Voice
Speaker 1: in the New York Times and by our friends. And
Speaker 1: we also had well, we had enough financial success that
Speaker 1: we could give up our day jobs. And that's a
Speaker 1: very significant thing. Staying with staying with business. Traditionally, the
Speaker 1: drummer is the business guy in the group. Was that
Speaker 1: the case with you in talking heads. You know. That's
Speaker 1: what Gary Kerfer said to me. It's always the drummer
Speaker 1: who runs the band. Well, um, I think all of
Speaker 1: us had a pretty good business sense, but but maybe
Speaker 1: I was the person who who was was comfortable, uh
Speaker 1: talking to people about it. But it got to the
Speaker 1: point after not very long that that I realized you
Speaker 1: can't manage your own band. You have to have somebody
Speaker 1: else do it for you. Okay, Now, the first record
Speaker 1: makes an impression, second record is a whole new thing.
Speaker 1: You work with Eno. You do a cover of taking
Speaker 1: Me to the River, tell Us a Genesis and the
Speaker 1: story of making that record. Well, um, we were on
Speaker 1: a big tour of Europe and the UK with the
Speaker 1: Ramones and when we when we came to London, Eno
Speaker 1: came to see us and we we met with him.
Speaker 1: We had a nice lunch with him, and then we
Speaker 1: went to his home and we talked about you know,
Speaker 1: music basically, and one thing led to another and we decided,
Speaker 1: you know, would be a good producer for us, and
Speaker 1: and you know was interested in doing it, and and
Speaker 1: so that's how that that's how we got him involved
Speaker 1: with Eno. And at the time though he hadn't really
Speaker 1: worked with anybody significant. He'd been in uh Roxy music
Speaker 1: and he'd done his own solo albums. Correct. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: he had also done uh just around the time before,
Speaker 1: right before we worked with him, he was working with
Speaker 1: David Bowie on the Low the Low trilogy and also
Speaker 1: with Divo. He produced the first Divo album, which he
Speaker 1: did in Germany, and um so, so you know, uh,
Speaker 1: maybe the record companies weren't thrilled that we were working
Speaker 1: with Divo instead of like you know, Roy Thomas Baker
Speaker 1: or somebody like that. But but he was right up
Speaker 1: our alley. He was our kind of artist, and we
Speaker 1: had his records. We collected his record as we admired
Speaker 1: his work, and so uh, he agreed to do it.
Speaker 1: Now on that second album, more songs about buildings and food.
Speaker 1: We had already been performing all those songs live, and
Speaker 1: some of them we had been performing for years live,
Speaker 1: but they didn't make it onto the first record. So
Speaker 1: and we had been touring like crazy. So when we
Speaker 1: got to the studio at Compass Point in the Bahamas,
Speaker 1: which was delightful, all you know, had to do was
Speaker 1: like set up the mics and then he could treat
Speaker 1: the various instruments, instruments, mostly the drums, but sometimes other
Speaker 1: instruments with this little briefcase synthesizer he had and um
Speaker 1: by treating, i mean putting effects and delays and things
Speaker 1: like that on the instruments, and that was his main contribution.
Speaker 1: But he also helped, like like when we came to
Speaker 1: Take Me to the River, which we been playing kind
Speaker 1: of up tempo, like Al Green's version is quite up tempo,
Speaker 1: but you know, said you should slow this down. You
Speaker 1: should play this as slow as you possibly can without
Speaker 1: making a mistake. And so we thought, okay, we'll try that,
Speaker 1: and we did it and it was super sexy that way,
Speaker 1: and uh so that that was uh of course that
Speaker 1: became a hit, and it was our first hit and
Speaker 1: the whole the whole experience down at Compass Point was
Speaker 1: just super cool and everything went smooth and uh we
Speaker 1: had a wonderful time. Well, it's all interesting. In the book.
Speaker 1: You talked about taking Me to the River. Then ultimately
Speaker 1: there sound where you feel like it's underwater, which is
Speaker 1: that you described that I've always felt that, you know,
Speaker 1: with the guitar, you know, during the solo part. Okay,
Speaker 1: the record becomes a hit. How does that change in
Speaker 1: the band? Well, um, I don't know that it really
Speaker 1: changed us. It just made we were able to get
Speaker 1: paid better by nightclubs because we had a song that
Speaker 1: was on the radio, so we could get you know,
Speaker 1: more money. It wasn't a whole lot more, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't a whole lot of money, but it was like
Speaker 1: better than we had been doing. And who was booking
Speaker 1: who's booking all those tours in those days? It was
Speaker 1: a guy named Stu wine trout at William Morris and
Speaker 1: uh ste was it was quite a character. But um,
Speaker 1: you know what we Gary really I think Gary Kerr first,
Speaker 1: of course, was your manager. He was our manager and
Speaker 1: I think he pretty much directed Stu. Now, Ste, we're
Speaker 1: gonna play here, here and here, you get on the
Speaker 1: phone and book it. And um we we played everything
Speaker 1: for college campuses, universities to pizza parlors and uh uh
Speaker 1: supermarkets that that were out of business and we're empty.
Speaker 1: We played all kinds of crazy venues which which um
Speaker 1: which uh. Later we were followed by Blondie and by
Speaker 1: Elvis Costello and by the Clash. Because there was no
Speaker 1: circuit for for bands like us, we were. We were
Speaker 1: we weren't very big, you know, we weren't like Foreigner
Speaker 1: or something. So a lot of promoters weren't interested. So
Speaker 1: we had to find these young indie guys to to
Speaker 1: promote our shows. Sometimes we promoted them ourselves, even when
Speaker 1: you'd had the second album, etcetera. Yes, yes, uh okay,
Speaker 1: third album. Of course, fear of music and of course
Speaker 1: this ain't no party, this ain't no just go There
Speaker 1: ain't no fool around. It brings you to a higher level.
Speaker 1: But after the third record is when you start to
Speaker 1: get winto the fact that maybe David Byrne is going
Speaker 1: to go on his own tech. Yeah. I what I
Speaker 1: found out was that David all Along had would prefer
Speaker 1: to be a solo artist. Um, the group was just
Speaker 1: something that he uh, I mean, he was a real
Speaker 1: part of the group. We were we were really collaborators,
Speaker 1: and we were friends and we were you know, we
Speaker 1: lived together in the same loft, and um, we really
Speaker 1: of the time we agreed on things. You know, we
Speaker 1: didn't agree on every single thing. But but now, Bob,
Speaker 1: I have to be very careful because I don't want
Speaker 1: to sound like the whiney drummer who's who's embittered by
Speaker 1: the famous lead singer, because that's not the case. I'm
Speaker 1: not embittered, and I have great respect for David and
Speaker 1: his talents, which are immense. But I still think that
Speaker 1: he had his eyes on a solo career from almost
Speaker 1: day two, maybe not day one, day two, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, some people are like, let's jump forward when
Speaker 1: he ultimately does go solo and you form top top club,
Speaker 1: you have a hit, and up until his recent uh
Speaker 1: mega concert dancing experience, he has not had He's had
Speaker 1: a lot of ink, but he hasn't had any huge success.
Speaker 1: How do you feel? How do you feel about that? Well? Um,
Speaker 1: all I can say is our first Tom Tom Club
Speaker 1: album was like magic to me. Uh, Chris Blackwell gave it. Now.
Speaker 1: One thing Seymour did, which which I can you know,
Speaker 1: make a little dig about, was he offered David a
Speaker 1: solo deal because David wanted to do a solo record.
Speaker 1: So then Jerry said, oh, if David's gonna do a
Speaker 1: solo record, I'm gonna do a solo record. So he
Speaker 1: offered Jerry a solo record, and then Tina and I
Speaker 1: were like, well, what are we gonna do? And Gary
Speaker 1: ker first went to went to Seamar and said what
Speaker 1: can you do for record deal for Chris and Tina?
Speaker 1: And he said, I can't afford three talking ed solo albums,
Speaker 1: and so he offered us nothing, and um Chris Blackwell,
Speaker 1: Chris Blackwell of Island Records, who knows the value of
Speaker 1: a good rhym rhythm section, said you know what, Gary,
Speaker 1: I'd love to do a single with Chris and Tina.
Speaker 1: Have him come on down. He already knew us from
Speaker 1: our recordings at at a Compass Point, and he said,
Speaker 1: have him come on down. Cut a single. If I
Speaker 1: like it, they can do a whole album. So we
Speaker 1: went down to Compass Point and we we made a
Speaker 1: record called Wordy Rapping Hood and uh he heard that
Speaker 1: and he said, okay, I want you to make a
Speaker 1: whole album, but first we're gonna release this one as
Speaker 1: a single, and uh it it went to well, it
Speaker 1: went top ten in about twenty different countries in Europe
Speaker 1: and in Latin America. And you know, then we had
Speaker 1: Genius of Love. And Genius of Love was a huge
Speaker 1: hit in America, so so big that, um well, it
Speaker 1: continues to be sampled by various hip hop artists and
Speaker 1: R and B artists and uh, it was it was
Speaker 1: like magic. It was a great, great success for us,
Speaker 1: and it gave Tina and I. You know, I think
Speaker 1: people realized, oh, Tina and I aren't just like David's
Speaker 1: little friends. They actually have ideas of their own and
Speaker 1: uh and I think, um, I think people realized that
Speaker 1: talking Heads was was was actually more of a shared experience,
Speaker 1: like the the art of talking Heads was more of
Speaker 1: a shared experience than than than one particular guy's uh ideas. Okay,
Speaker 1: but throughout the book, certainly you say at some point
Speaker 1: that you believe David is on the spectrum, but he
Speaker 1: does do some very interesting thing. You said, he dropped
Speaker 1: out of Risdy after one year, he left his significant
Speaker 1: other wife after being inducted to the raw could roll
Speaker 1: a Hall of fame literally that night. But the most
Speaker 1: interesting thing in a business level is you agree that
Speaker 1: you would split songwriting credit along with eno. Tell us
Speaker 1: about the songwriting credit and who really wrote those songs? Well,
Speaker 1: those songs were created by the five people who were
Speaker 1: in the studio working mostly mostly created by uh, Tina, Jerry, David,
Speaker 1: and myself from improvisations in the studio. And then we
Speaker 1: would and sometimes Brian would be playing something in the
Speaker 1: control room while we were out in the studio, but
Speaker 1: more often than not he was listening and he would
Speaker 1: add things later. But uh, the original basic tracks that
Speaker 1: all those songs were on Remaining Light come from. We're
Speaker 1: improvised by the four musicians in the studio. Then we
Speaker 1: took the we arranged, uh, Brian and the engineer mainly
Speaker 1: arranged the different jam sessions that we did so that
Speaker 1: they would uh evolve into different parts of a song,
Speaker 1: like an A section, of B section, a C section,
Speaker 1: and then we would do some rough mixes of those,
Speaker 1: at which point David was expected to write lyrics because
Speaker 1: at a certain point, actually pretty early on, he said,
Speaker 1: I'm I want to be the one who writes the lyrics.
Speaker 1: I don't want to sing anyone else's lyrics. So we're like, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: and uh he uh. We we all knew after those
Speaker 1: compass points sessions on Remaining Light that that we had
Speaker 1: something very extraordinary. And he said, you know, this is
Speaker 1: so extraordinary. I can't just write like something off the
Speaker 1: top of my head. I gotta live with these tracks
Speaker 1: for a little while, and uh, then I'll be able
Speaker 1: to write something. So we said, great, we understood that completely,
Speaker 1: and I think he took I think he rented a
Speaker 1: car and drove around the country listening to cassettes and
Speaker 1: of the basic tracks, and also listening to the radio
Speaker 1: with evangelical preachers and whatnot on the various regional radio stations,
Speaker 1: and he came back with some great lyrics and at
Speaker 1: that point Eno helped arrange some of the background vocals
Speaker 1: and the U and actually I think he he wrote,
Speaker 1: for example, uh, the melody to Letting the Days Go By,
Speaker 1: you know, the chorus of of Once in a Lifetime.
Speaker 1: And he made major contributions. Long story short, when when
Speaker 1: when this great album was finally finished and we got
Speaker 1: our advanced copies, Tina and Jerry and I am, we're
Speaker 1: looking at him. And the agreement had been that it
Speaker 1: would say music by in alphabetical order, David Byrne, Brian Eno,
Speaker 1: Chris Brance, Jerry Harrison, and Tina Weymouth, but instead it
Speaker 1: said music by Brian David Byrne, Brian Eno, and Talking Heads. Well,
Speaker 1: I thought David was a member of Talking Heads. But anyway,
Speaker 1: you could see that the rest of us were being
Speaker 1: treated like Sidemen all of a sudden, as if we
Speaker 1: hadn't hadn't really contributed to the extent that we had,
Speaker 1: you know, so we we had to deal with that.
Speaker 1: Brian wanted Brian wanted the the front cover to say
Speaker 1: Remain in Light by Talking Heads and Brian Eno and
Speaker 1: we're like, oh my god, how are we gonna how
Speaker 1: are we gonna talk about it this one? And Gary
Speaker 1: Ker first went to Brian. He said, you know, Brian,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a nine month promotional tour behind this album.
Speaker 1: Can you do that tour? And Brian said, oh no, Gary,
Speaker 1: I couldn't possibly do that. You know, I don't tour.
Speaker 1: And so Gary said, well, then how can we advertise
Speaker 1: it as Brian you know and talking Heads if you're
Speaker 1: not there? And uh, well that that ended that problem
Speaker 1: right there. But despite the credit in terms of in
Speaker 1: terms of publishing royalties, did you get one fifth? No?
Speaker 1: Really no, I did not. So what was the final
Speaker 1: split on the payment? You know, I prefer not to
Speaker 1: get into the details because off the top of my head,
Speaker 1: I don't exactly know what they are. I a good idea,
Speaker 1: but you know, uh, you know, it didn't work out
Speaker 1: the way it was supposed to work out. How about
Speaker 1: all the other albums? You know? Are you talking about
Speaker 1: performance royalties or I'm talking about publishing royalties? Publishing royalties? Well, um,
Speaker 1: I'm afraid David gets gets the lion's share of most
Speaker 1: of that, but you do get some. Yes. Now it's
Speaker 1: like it's almost like Godfather three. It looks like David's
Speaker 1: out of the band, and then you and Tina always
Speaker 1: seem to find a way to get him back in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well you know you have to use psychology and uh,
Speaker 1: and we learned. We learned that if you make David
Speaker 1: thinks something's his idea, it might get done. And so
Speaker 1: what could I say? I think every rock band who's
Speaker 1: who's been around for a while has many twists and
Speaker 1: turns and ups and downs, and and we had our
Speaker 1: share too, Okay. Uh, after true stories, do you say
Speaker 1: to yourself and then naked, do you say to yourself
Speaker 1: this is ultimately done? Or do you don't always have
Speaker 1: a hope that, well, we'll do it one more time.
Speaker 1: I always had a hope that we do it one
Speaker 1: more time? Yes, And has it ever come close? I
Speaker 1: wish I could say yes, but I don't think so. No,
Speaker 1: a couple a couple of times I got my hopes up,
Speaker 1: but lately I'm I'm kind of resigned to the fact
Speaker 1: that it's not going to happen. Um, although Talking Heads
Speaker 1: has a great career on Broadway. Now there's some great
Speaker 1: talking Head shows songs being performed on Broadway. So I
Speaker 1: have you seen David Extravaganza in person? I have not.
Speaker 1: I confess I have not. I had I been invited
Speaker 1: to the show, I probably would would have been happy
Speaker 1: to go, but no invitation was extended and I didn't
Speaker 1: want to just drop in. And how how often or
Speaker 1: when was the last time you actually spoke face to
Speaker 1: face with David. I spoke face to face with David
Speaker 1: for the last time in two thousand three, So it's
Speaker 1: been a good long while. We we cut. We communicate
Speaker 1: by email, mostly about you know, what songs can be
Speaker 1: used in what movies and what? You know? When was
Speaker 1: the last time you had an email from him? Oh?
Speaker 1: Probably probably a couple of weeks ago. Okay, So after
Speaker 1: Talking Heads is behind Tom Tom Club continues to go,
Speaker 1: but also you and Tina start producing records. Yeah, how
Speaker 1: does that happen? Well? Um, it kind of uh uh.
Speaker 1: We hadn't really planned on being producers or anything. But
Speaker 1: our good friend Alex Sadkin, who was an extraordinary engineer
Speaker 1: and producer for Bob Marley and a Third World, and
Speaker 1: he ended up producing, engineering and mixing things like I
Speaker 1: want to Know what Love Is for Foreigner, you know,
Speaker 1: big hits. He was scheduled he had worked with Bob
Speaker 1: Marley and he was scheduled to produce Ziggy Marley and
Speaker 1: the Melody Makers, Bob Marley's Kids and um. He was
Speaker 1: down in Nassau Compass Point working with some band when
Speaker 1: tragically he was thrown from a open air jeep. Uh,
Speaker 1: they had an accident. He was thrown, hit his head
Speaker 1: and never came to. So suddenly Virgin America, which was
Speaker 1: a brand company, Uh, they needed producers for Ziggy Marley
Speaker 1: and the Melody Makers. And Tina's younger brother, Lark Weymouth
Speaker 1: was was young a and R man there and he
Speaker 1: said to uh, Nancy Jeffries. Nancy Jeffries was in charge
Speaker 1: of the Ziggy Marley and the Melody Maker's project. He said, Uh, Nancy,
Speaker 1: have you have you thought about using Chris and Tina
Speaker 1: because you know they love reggae. They know a lot
Speaker 1: about you know, island culture and stuff. Maybe they would
Speaker 1: be good. So we got a call from Nancy Jefferies
Speaker 1: and she said, would you be interested in doing this?
Speaker 1: And we said, yeah, we would be interested because Talking
Speaker 1: Heads wasn't touring at the time or anything. And um,
Speaker 1: we went down to Jamaica to meet Ziggy. Uh know.
Speaker 1: First we we met his mother, Rita Marley, in a
Speaker 1: sushi bar in New York and she said, she said, Okay,
Speaker 1: you guys seem cool to me, and uh she she
Speaker 1: remembered meeting us before somewhere and uh she liked her
Speaker 1: Tom Tom called music Genius of Love. She loved that,
Speaker 1: and um, so she said, you've got to come down
Speaker 1: to Jamaican meet Ziggy. So we met Ziggy and uh
Speaker 1: we flew down there and uh Ziggy said, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: you can do it. So uh we started working with
Speaker 1: Ziggy the first day, you said to me. This was
Speaker 1: at Sigma Sound in New York because we we thought
Speaker 1: if we if we were produced the record in Jamaica,
Speaker 1: things might get kind of out of control. We we
Speaker 1: should have it here in New York and and so
Speaker 1: we did that and the first day Ziggy came to
Speaker 1: me said Chris France, how come you bring your wife
Speaker 1: to the studio, man, I said, well, Ziggy, First of all,
Speaker 1: Tina knows more about music than I do. The second
Speaker 1: of all, she's gonna be a great producer, so just
Speaker 1: sit back and enjoy it. And uh, in fact, in fact,
Speaker 1: it went very well. That record did great. It was
Speaker 1: called Conscious Party. Another new signing to Virgin America at
Speaker 1: that time was Keith Richards. So Keith Richards came in
Speaker 1: and played on a song called Lee and Molly, which
Speaker 1: is about a interracial relationship, and he was really cool.
Speaker 1: And uh we had um q Massakla come in and
Speaker 1: arrange background vocals for a group of um Zulu women,
Speaker 1: young Zulu women who were in town doing a musical
Speaker 1: called Sarah Fina, and uh Baba Ola Tunji dropped in.
Speaker 1: Um a whole lot of Jamaican uh dance hall artists
Speaker 1: stopped by to see what was happening. And the records
Speaker 1: sold like millions. So it was a wonderful experience. Okay,
Speaker 1: so needles to say, Talking Heads doesn't make another record,
Speaker 1: you have success with Tom Tom Club. So for the
Speaker 1: last twenty five years, how much of that was working,
Speaker 1: how much of that was rest and relaxation my last
Speaker 1: twenty five years. Well, I've I've taken plenty of time off.
Speaker 1: I assure you we we like to go sailing. I
Speaker 1: know you like to ski. When when our kids were younger,
Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time at Crested Butte and
Speaker 1: loved it there. Uh and of course also in New England.
Speaker 1: Um but as you know, out west is kind of
Speaker 1: more fun, especially the middle of winter. Uh. We uh
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time sailing because we love to sail.
Speaker 1: But we've also done several Tom Tom Club albums. Uh.
Speaker 1: And we've done plenty of Tom Tom Club tours, sometimes
Speaker 1: with a package, sometimes just on ourselves, by ourselves. The
Speaker 1: last time we we played was I think six years ago.
Speaker 1: You know, nobody's breaking down our door for a new
Speaker 1: Tom Tom Club album. But we're okay with that because
Speaker 1: we're we've already done some good stuff and um I
Speaker 1: I we're more active in our community here in Fairfield,
Speaker 1: Connecticut than we used to be, and we uh we
Speaker 1: enjoy that. Tina Tina was really not too long ago
Speaker 1: inducted into the Connecticut Women's Hall of Fame. Wow, that's
Speaker 1: pretty cool. It's a big deal, and um, I mean
Speaker 1: she's a really good company there. And uh, then I
Speaker 1: decided I would write a book. And that was a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. Okay, well, obviously you've had this
Speaker 1: health blip, but are you sailing into the sunset or
Speaker 1: do you in the back of your mind, is there
Speaker 1: some artistic project that you still want to cook up? Well,
Speaker 1: Tina and I have been encouraged by what's happening with
Speaker 1: electronic music today. Um, I'm not referring to, um, the
Speaker 1: kind of music you you necessarily here on uh pop
Speaker 1: popular radio. I'm I'm referring more to an underground thing
Speaker 1: and uh and we dig the underground life. So we're
Speaker 1: thinking that we we a few years back we did
Speaker 1: a record um for a label run by the Chicks
Speaker 1: on Speed and they were friends of ours there from
Speaker 1: Holland or they were at the time, and they said,
Speaker 1: would you do a We're gonna do this album called
Speaker 1: girl Monster with with with all girl artists. Well, I know,
Speaker 1: I'm not a girl artist, So we put Tina's name
Speaker 1: on it and it was it was very well received
Speaker 1: on an underground in an underground way, and um, so
Speaker 1: we we thought, well, maybe we should do like an
Speaker 1: electronic duo, or it's just Tina and myself, some electronic drums,
Speaker 1: some keyboards, some bass, and some vocals, and we don't
Speaker 1: have to have a big production. It can be very minimalist.
Speaker 1: We don't have to have a big stage show because
Speaker 1: maybe we won't even go out on tour, or maybe
Speaker 1: we will and we'll we'll have some you know, interesting
Speaker 1: little stage production that that um doesn't necessarily look like
Speaker 1: a rock and roll show. So we're thinking along those lines.
Speaker 1: I'm also thinking about writing a book about my beagles
Speaker 1: because they travel with us everywhere. Poppy has has crossed
Speaker 1: the Atlantic twenty two, no, twenty four times more than
Speaker 1: most Americans. And are you painting at all? Well, that
Speaker 1: you know, my son, uh Egan France is Uh is
Speaker 1: doing the painting for the whole family right now. He's
Speaker 1: really good, really great. He's got to show up in
Speaker 1: Berlin starting next week. I think he's an art bossle.
Speaker 1: He's serious, he's serious. And what about your others? Uh?
Speaker 1: Your daughter? Oh? Oh, we only have two boys. His
Speaker 1: name is his name is Robin, his nickname. He's an
Speaker 1: electronic artist and he's got his own label called craft
Speaker 1: Jerks like craft work but with J and a Z
Speaker 1: craftjerks and he's on his like I don't know how
Speaker 1: many releases twenty and uh and they sell. You know,
Speaker 1: they're small batches, but they sell. And he also uh
Speaker 1: well lately nobody's performing live, but he also performs live
Speaker 1: as kid Jin sing as a DJ. Okay. Now, needless
Speaker 1: to say, the musical landscape is littered with people who
Speaker 1: are of household names and have no money in your
Speaker 1: particular case, or the royalties and the sinks uh keeping
Speaker 1: you comfortable? Thank goodness. Yes, we Tina and I were
Speaker 1: very fortunate and we had a few good years and
Speaker 1: we sucked some away. Good to know. Okay, Chris, I
Speaker 1: think we've covered the basics. If you want to go
Speaker 1: into in much more detail, needless to say, learn much
Speaker 1: more about the New York scene and what it was
Speaker 1: like to be in that and to be happening in
Speaker 1: the late seventies and early eighties. Certainly read Remain in Love,
Speaker 1: Chris's memoir out on July. Chris, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: doing this. Thank you, Bob. It's a pleasure. Until next time.
Speaker 1: This is Bob left sus