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Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of questions. One, how's your health? Well, uh,

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Speaker 1: funny you should ask, because uh, yeah, I know you're

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Speaker 1: a person who takes health issues very seriously. And I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give you an exclusive okay, because because

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Speaker 1: Gary Ker first told me a long time ago that

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Speaker 1: I should pay attention to Bob Letts sets. And um,

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Speaker 1: I think that was even back when you were on

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Speaker 1: the velvet rope in those days. Okay, but uh, over

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Speaker 1: the Memorial Day weekend, I had a heart attack. I

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Speaker 1: was um, I had been feeling this. The impression I

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Speaker 1: had was that I had really bad heartburn for a lot,

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Speaker 1: and it was coming and going for a couple of days,

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Speaker 1: like it started on a Wednesday night and then Thursday

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Speaker 1: it was coming and going. And so I said, this

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Speaker 1: is really uncomfortable. I'm going to call the doctor, and

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Speaker 1: I set up an appointment for Friday morning. Very good

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Speaker 1: doctor said, this has all the earmarks of um an ulcer,

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Speaker 1: but you don't seem like the ulcer type. So let

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Speaker 1: me real quick take a blood test, will rush it

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Speaker 1: and we'll see what's really going on. So two hours,

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Speaker 1: he said, you go home, lie down. I'll call you

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Speaker 1: two hours later he called me. He said, Chris, you

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Speaker 1: gotta call get yourself to the hospital. It seems like

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Speaker 1: you might be having a heart attack. I thought, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: because my father, I'm I'm sixty nine. My father died

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Speaker 1: of a heart attack at age sixty seven. So I thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: I beat it. But oh, anyway, I went to bridge

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Speaker 1: you know Fairfield. I went to bridge Hospital, Bridgeport Hospital.

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Speaker 1: They were the cardioc cardiology team was waiting. They tested

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Speaker 1: me for COVID nineteen and make sure I didn't have that,

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Speaker 1: and then they wheeled me right into It's not a

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Speaker 1: surgery room. It was like one of these micro uh

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Speaker 1: surgical things where they go in through your wrist and

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Speaker 1: look at everything on video monitors. Oh yeah, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the way they do it now. Yeah yeah. And I

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Speaker 1: mean there's just a little tiny dot on my wrist

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Speaker 1: where they went in and so they they found blockage

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Speaker 1: in my lower coronary artery and um, they cleared it

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Speaker 1: out and they put in three stints, and uh, three

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Speaker 1: days later, I was home resting up. But I gotta

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Speaker 1: tell you, I feel good and I'm very grateful to

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Speaker 1: the good people at Bridgeport Hospital. So what's the rehab well, uh,

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Speaker 1: changing to a more plant based diet. For one thing,

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Speaker 1: I was a guy who I'm a bone vivant, you know.

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Speaker 1: I like to I love to eat. But I've lost

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Speaker 1: seventeen pounds since that happened, maybe eighteen. I didn't weigh

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Speaker 1: myself yet today, and uh, I mean I was too heavy,

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Speaker 1: It's true. And um, I I probably liked meat uh

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Speaker 1: more often than I should have done. So anyway, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna change my diet. I'm gonna relax, you know, let's

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Speaker 1: face it, I've got it made. I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: need to like sweat, like new records or new anything

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Speaker 1: like new tours. They're not happening anyway. So I'm going

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Speaker 1: to relax and enjoy the fruits of my labors and

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Speaker 1: my life. And I was sort of doing that already,

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Speaker 1: but now I'm really gonna do it now. Since your

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Speaker 1: father was sixty seven and he died of a heart attack,

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Speaker 1: had you been tracking this closely? Probably not as closely

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Speaker 1: as I should have. I was getting warnings, you know,

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Speaker 1: from blood work and stuff, and I but I don't

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Speaker 1: really like that anti cholesterol medicine, although I'm taking it now.

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Speaker 1: Which one are you? Which one? Are you taking pressed

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Speaker 1: door right that one? Yeah? And uh, you know, the

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Speaker 1: statins have their pros and cons. But my cardiologist is

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Speaker 1: a really good guy, and I'm gonna just follow his

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Speaker 1: advice and keep taking it until the numbers are such

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Speaker 1: that I can consider easing off. Are you taking the

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Speaker 1: ubiquinol with it? I don't. I don't think so. No.

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Speaker 1: Is that a supplement? Yeah, is supplement. It's supposed to

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Speaker 1: speak to the side effects. It's c It's not c

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Speaker 1: O two but without going to the other room looking

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Speaker 1: up and it's something like that. And uh, are you

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Speaker 1: having any side effects from the Crest store? Not too bad?

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Speaker 1: Actually none so far. I mean, I know, I know

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Speaker 1: the side effects can be one. One is depression, another

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Speaker 1: is memory loss. I really don't want that. Well, the

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Speaker 1: number one, I you know, I haven't had any issues

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Speaker 1: with that, but with some of the statins I have

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Speaker 1: had the leg pains, you get the muscle tightness, Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I've I've heard about that. I haven't had that, thank goodness.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't want to, you know, talk about health

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Speaker 1: the whole time. But since you started off with that question,

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Speaker 1: I thought I better Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: Bob Left Sets podcast. We started, as I say, we

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Speaker 1: got an update on Chris's health and he says that's

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Speaker 1: fine for everybody to hear, so we're gonna leave that

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Speaker 1: in and any event, my guest today is drummer for

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Speaker 1: Talking Heads and Tom Tom Club. He has a new book,

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Speaker 1: Remain in Love. It's going to be in stores both

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Speaker 1: of the UK and the US on July one. Please

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Speaker 1: welcome Chris France. Chris okay, it's a great pleasure to

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Speaker 1: be here, Bob Okay. Now, Chris, why the book? Why now? Well, Uh,

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Speaker 1: I've been meaning to write the book for many years,

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Speaker 1: like a dozen years or so, and then a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago I finally buckled down and said, you

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Speaker 1: better do this, you know, because you're not getting any younger,

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Speaker 1: and um, nobody's writing any good books about talking Heads.

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Speaker 1: So so I did it. I started about two years ago,

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Speaker 1: and um, you know, my I feel like my story

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Speaker 1: is a delightful one and I feel like I was

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Speaker 1: very fortunate, and I feel like, well, I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's a memorable tale to have been in Talking Heads,

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Speaker 1: to have been in Tom Tom Clement, to be married

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Speaker 1: now for forty three years, to Tina Weymouth. Look, I'm

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Speaker 1: a lucky guy, you know. Okay, one thing anybody who

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Speaker 1: reads the book will be stunned about is not only

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Speaker 1: is it comprehensive in terms of the timeline, the detail

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Speaker 1: is really incredible. Did you have any notes or did

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Speaker 1: you just remember all that? You know? Most of it

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Speaker 1: I remembered. But fortunately, you know, I I've been kicking

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Speaker 1: myself for a long time for not keeping a journal.

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Speaker 1: I knew during that time that I should be keeping

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Speaker 1: a journal, and I just didn't. But Tina fortunately had

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Speaker 1: these not a journal, but date books like you know,

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Speaker 1: like the calendar book date books you buy at the

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Speaker 1: Metropolitan Museum that has King Tutt on the cover. She

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Speaker 1: had one of those, and she she would write down

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Speaker 1: last night we played the Roundhouse, sold out, three encres,

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Speaker 1: got paid. It's She also made notes of the hotels

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Speaker 1: and things like that, like bed was terrible, or shower

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Speaker 1: was too small, at things like that. So so I

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Speaker 1: was able to Tina. Tina loaned me her date books

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Speaker 1: from those those years I guess it was like from

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Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy seven to nineteen eighty, and they came

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Speaker 1: in very helpful because a lot of the information you

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Speaker 1: get on the internet is a tissue you have lies. Well,

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Speaker 1: that begs a question. Once you wrote it, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you ran it by Tina. Did she remember things the

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Speaker 1: same way you had in most instances? Yes, although once

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Speaker 1: in a while she would say, oh no, no, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't like that. And uh she she has a the memory.

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Speaker 1: It's very keen, you know. Okay, let's go back to

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Speaker 1: risdy Rhode Island School of Design. That's where you and

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Speaker 1: Tina went to college. According to the book, David dropped out?

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Speaker 1: Why go to risdie? Why go to Risdee? To begin with, well,

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Speaker 1: I was planning on having uh a life as a painter,

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Speaker 1: and I had been in bands when I was young,

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Speaker 1: a teenager. Um, and I loved being in bands, you know.

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Speaker 1: I started off in elementary school and then the Beatles

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Speaker 1: came out and everybody had little rock and roll bands.

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Speaker 1: And okay, well let's leve on a little bit there.

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Speaker 1: So you were playing in bands before the Beatles. Yes,

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Speaker 1: actually I was. I was playing in No, I was

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Speaker 1: playing in my elementary school band before the Beatles. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's let's cover something. So you're originally from where, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm originally from Kentucky. But during my formative years we

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Speaker 1: moved to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, which is where my father was from.

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Speaker 1: And he was going into a law practice, so we

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Speaker 1: moved back to where he had some connections. And um

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Speaker 1: so so elementary school, junior high, and part of high school.

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Speaker 1: Most of high school I was in Pittsburgh. Okay, now

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh is very hip. Again, What do I know about Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's the book Michael Chaban The Mysteries of Pittsburgh,

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Speaker 1: which I recommend the darkest movie I've ever seen in

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Speaker 1: the theater Mrs soulfil in Pittsburgh. But when you were

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Speaker 1: growing up in Pittsburgh, was it a ship hole or

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Speaker 1: was it an unknown hip city? Um well, I couldn't

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Speaker 1: wait to get out of there. To be honest, I

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Speaker 1: knew that Pittsburgh was not going to be where I

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Speaker 1: was going to make my mark because I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be an artist, and I thought, God, Andy Warhol wanted

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Speaker 1: to be an artist. He was from Pittsburgh, but he

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Speaker 1: had to move to New York, you know. And uh,

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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I have a lot of good

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Speaker 1: friends still in Pittsburgh and fond memories of the place,

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Speaker 1: but I just knew as an artist it wasn't happening

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Speaker 1: for me. Okay, but you have to get out of there.

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Speaker 1: But you said, uh, so you went to prep school

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Speaker 1: for part of your high school. Yeah, I went to

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Speaker 1: a Shady Side Academy, which is a fine school in

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Speaker 1: in the suburbs of Pittsburgh. And so you still live

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Speaker 1: did home at the same time, or do you live there?

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Speaker 1: I lived at home. I was a day student and

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Speaker 1: that's where I started painting. I had a great studio

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Speaker 1: art teacher named David Miller. He went on to teach

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Speaker 1: at skid More. But anyway, he um he turned me

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Speaker 1: onto contemporary art, which was something I didn't know anything

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Speaker 1: about at the time. Like he turned me onto Jasper

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Speaker 1: John's Rauenberg, I knew about Warhol Ah, people like Ed

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Speaker 1: Keene Holtz and uh Klaus Oldenburg and uh of course

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Speaker 1: Willem de Cooning. You know. He turned me onto all

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Speaker 1: these artists, and I thought, Wow, this is what I

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Speaker 1: want to do, and that's why I went to Risdy. Okay. Uh,

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Speaker 1: those are all generally speaking abstract painters. Prior to this teacher,

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Speaker 1: Mr Miller, did you have an int Aushton art. Were

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Speaker 1: you did you draw? Did you paint anything like that?

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Speaker 1: I did draw. Uh. You know. I was born in

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Speaker 1: Kentucky and my my whole mother's side of the family

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Speaker 1: in Kentucky, So I I used to draw horses and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that or my grandfather, you know. And I

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Speaker 1: would draw on those shirt cardboards that you used to

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Speaker 1: get when your shirts were laundry laundered. I never really

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Speaker 1: thought of myself as being an artist at all until

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Speaker 1: I took that class called studio art in high school,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I thought, this is what

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Speaker 1: I want to do. Okay. So you said you were

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Speaker 1: in the elementary school band. Is that where you learned

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Speaker 1: how to play or did your parents give you lessons? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I started off on the trumpet and it wasn't really

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Speaker 1: happening for me. I was trying, I was practicing, but

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Speaker 1: I wasn't getting anywhere. And I and uh, I had

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Speaker 1: a very good teacher. His name was Gene Wilmouth. He

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Speaker 1: was a mallet instrument guy, you know, marimba, vibra, frying,

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Speaker 1: xylophone and also piano and also drums. And he said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can see it's not really working out for you,

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Speaker 1: but you have a good sense of rhythm. What do

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Speaker 1: you what do you say we switch you over to drums?

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Speaker 1: And I said, cool, let's do it. And he gave

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Speaker 1: me the little rubber pad and the elementary book of rudiments,

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Speaker 1: and he gave me a couple of lessons, a little

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Speaker 1: private lessons, and next thing I knew, I was first

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Speaker 1: chair and the drum department. Now in the school band,

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Speaker 1: you're just playing the marching drum whatever they call that, right,

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Speaker 1: You're not playing a whole kid. Yeah. In the yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was no drum kit in the In the fall

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Speaker 1: and the spring, you would do marching and so that

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Speaker 1: would be a marching drum. In the winter months we

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Speaker 1: would have orchestra and I would I would hit a

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Speaker 1: snare drum or a triangle or a tambourine. One time

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Speaker 1: I played just the symbol, just the ride cymbal. And

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Speaker 1: so what what what happens when the Beatles arrived? So

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Speaker 1: the Beatles came and just basically changed everything overnight after

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Speaker 1: their Ed Sullivan appearance. And uh, I remember the day

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Speaker 1: after that, the girls on the School of Us were

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Speaker 1: singing Beatles songs in Unison and they knew all the

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Speaker 1: words and everything already and I thought, wow, So a

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Speaker 1: bunch of my friends and I who were in the

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Speaker 1: school band, just took the stuff to our garage and

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Speaker 1: started started playing. We didn't just play Beatles, we played

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Speaker 1: like the Ventures and Dave Clark five and uh what else. Well,

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Speaker 1: we in my first band, which is called the Lost Chords,

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Speaker 1: we actually had a trumpeter and a trombone in the

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Speaker 1: band too, so we could play her Balford and the

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Speaker 1: Tiawana brass songs. It was really fun. Uh. We we

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Speaker 1: never really accomplished much other than having fun, but you know,

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Speaker 1: fun is the best thing to have anyway. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so like the Beatles song. Um, so did you ever

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Speaker 1: have bands that had gigs in high school? We had

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Speaker 1: one gig with the Lost Chords and that was at

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Speaker 1: the Presbyterian Church Youth fellowship Hall. Can you imagine a

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Speaker 1: straighter gig than that? And uh, it was really fun.

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Speaker 1: The kids went nuts and we had a great time.

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Speaker 1: But mostly we just rehearsed and either my garage or

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Speaker 1: my friends basement or you know, a lot of rehearsing,

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Speaker 1: so you go to Risdy at all times. Maybe in history,

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Speaker 1: being a fine artist is a challenging career. Did that

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Speaker 1: occur to you? Yes, it did. One thing they tell

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Speaker 1: you when you you go to art school is you

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Speaker 1: know there's no guarantees. Some people say you can't even

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Speaker 1: teach art at uh. Well, the fact is that some

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Speaker 1: people can and some people can't. But um Risdi was

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Speaker 1: not RISTI didn't have any like program that you could

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Speaker 1: enroll to get a job after after graduation. It was

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Speaker 1: you're on your own now, good luck. Okay. You played

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Speaker 1: in bands in high school. It seems based on the

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Speaker 1: book that very soon after your arrival at Risdy, you

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Speaker 1: were interesting interested in forming a band. Yes. My second year.

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Speaker 1: The first year I didn't play any drums at all,

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Speaker 1: any music except you know, on my record player. But

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Speaker 1: um I was really missing it, and um so I

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Speaker 1: asked my dad if he would drive me up to

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island from Pittsburgh with my drum kit and he

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Speaker 1: said yes sure, So we brought the drum kid up

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Speaker 1: and and the first band I joined was in fact

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Speaker 1: a soul band, I mean a real soul band, and

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Speaker 1: UH called the Brotherhood. They were all from Boston, from Roxbury, Boston,

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Speaker 1: but one of them went to Risdy. The trumpet player,

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Speaker 1: and so he asked me what I what I play

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Speaker 1: with them? And and uh, we ended up again rehearsing

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Speaker 1: a lot. And I must admit I was the weak

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Speaker 1: link in that band because the rest of the guys

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Speaker 1: were Berkeley School of Music guys, you know. But eventually

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Speaker 1: I got it and um, I loved soul music. The

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Speaker 1: challenge for me was the slower tempos. You know. The

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Speaker 1: slow tempos are for me more difficult than any any

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Speaker 1: fast tempo. So it took me a while to get

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Speaker 1: to get it together with the brotherhood. We we we

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Speaker 1: did one show, which was the Ristey Spring Dance in

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Speaker 1: the what they called the Refectory, and it was very

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Speaker 1: great celebration, very celebratory, and the band sounded good and

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Speaker 1: uh and that was it. That was the last gig

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Speaker 1: with them. So you have your drum, kid, you're in

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Speaker 1: pro evidence. What's the next step. Well, the next step

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Speaker 1: I was just playing by myself a lot with records,

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Speaker 1: and uh, Tina, Tina Weymouth was kind enough to uh

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Speaker 1: let me keep my my drums, or to invite me

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Speaker 1: to keep my drums at her place, which was she

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Speaker 1: was living in a little carriage house near Brown University.

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Speaker 1: And it was right by the tennis courts, so nobody

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Speaker 1: complained about the noise, and um I practiced. I would

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Speaker 1: play along with the latest Marvin Gay record, or the

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Speaker 1: latest Brian Ferry record, or the latest you know, goats

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Speaker 1: Head Soup by the Rolling Stones or whatever. And I

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Speaker 1: would try to keep in shape doing that. But eventually,

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Speaker 1: one day a guy came to me, a friend said Chris,

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Speaker 1: I'm making this film. He was a film student. I'm

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Speaker 1: making a film about my girlfriend getting run over by

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Speaker 1: a car, and I need some really cacophonous music. Do

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Speaker 1: you think you could help me with that? And I

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Speaker 1: said sure, I'd be happy to and uh uh, I said,

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Speaker 1: bring your bring your nagare tape recorder over to Tina's

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Speaker 1: carriage house and we'll do it. And he said, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring another guy to who plays guitar, a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine who plays guitar. I said, great. So

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Speaker 1: he brings this guy over with his tape recorder and

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Speaker 1: he says, Chris, this is David Byrne. And um, so,

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Speaker 1: David and I sat down together and Mark's instructions where

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Speaker 1: I want this rising cacophony, you know, crescendo crescendo and

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Speaker 1: then diminuendo. So we said, okay, we can do that,

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Speaker 1: and I think we got it in the first take.

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Speaker 1: And I had been I had this dream about starting

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Speaker 1: another band at Risdey since the Brotherhood had kind of

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Speaker 1: gone to put and I had imagined, you know, David

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Speaker 1: Bowie had just come out and uh lou Reid who

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Speaker 1: had this hit with Walk on the wild Side, and

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of rejuvenated interest in the Velvet

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Speaker 1: underground by by art students I knew. I thought, hm,

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Speaker 1: we should start a sort of velvet underground ish band.

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Speaker 1: And I asked, Uh, I had this dream that we

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Speaker 1: could have a band that would entertain our friends. You know, no, no, uh,

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Speaker 1: higher aspirations than that. Really, we weren't thinking about records

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Speaker 1: or anything. And uh, I said to David, I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about starting a band. Would you like to be part

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Speaker 1: of that? And he said, yeah, I think so. And

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Speaker 1: uh so we started a band called the Artistics, and

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Speaker 1: uh we had loads of fun. And did you have

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Speaker 1: any gigs we did? Our biggest gig was the Rhode

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Speaker 1: Island School of Design Valentine's Day Ball and we played

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Speaker 1: that and uh that was very exciting for us. We

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Speaker 1: we played um that they had lowered the drinking age

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Speaker 1: to eighteen. So we had a bar at rizzi called

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Speaker 1: the tap Room and we played in the tap room.

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Speaker 1: We played a couple of private parties and uh, just

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Speaker 1: before we graduated, we played outside across from the Ristey

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Speaker 1: Museum on Benefit Street in this little park on a

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Speaker 1: nice afternoon in May, and that was our final show.

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Speaker 1: And who was in the band at that point It

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Speaker 1: was David myself, a friend of mine from Kentucky named

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Speaker 1: David Anderson on guitar he's a painter now, and Hank

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Speaker 1: Staylor on base. Hank was running PS one in New

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Speaker 1: York um a while back, which is an art museum.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what he's doing now, but uh, and

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Speaker 1: we and we would have guest appearances by one. One

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Speaker 1: one of our friends named Tim Beal was a sacks player.

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Speaker 1: He would sit and sit in from time to time.

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Speaker 1: And we also had our friends Mark and Naomi who

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Speaker 1: there um they were a couple. In their song was

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Speaker 1: my Baby Must be a Magician, So so we would

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Speaker 1: we would uh play my Baby Must be a Magician

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Speaker 1: and Mark and Naomi would sing it duet style. We

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Speaker 1: we had a we had a ball and how often

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Speaker 1: would you rehearse? Oh, a couple three times a week,

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Speaker 1: so you were taking it seriously. Let's stay at wristy

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Speaker 1: for a second. How did you meet Tina? I met Tina.

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Speaker 1: She came. Well, she came riding down the street. I

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Speaker 1: was sitting on the grass in this little park and

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Speaker 1: I saw this beautiful girl coming my way on a bicycle,

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Speaker 1: a yellow bicycle. Uh you know, old three speed style,

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Speaker 1: and uh she she rode past. She didn't look at

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Speaker 1: me or anything, didn't notice me. But I was sitting

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Speaker 1: with a male model at the school, like an artist

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Speaker 1: model named Charlie. And Charlie said, I said, whoa Charlie.

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Speaker 1: Did you see her? Wow? And Charlie said, that's my

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Speaker 1: friend Martina. Charlie called everybody his friend, you know, and

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Speaker 1: uh so, uh, I thought I gotta meet her, and um.

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Speaker 1: The next day I had a figure painting class. It

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Speaker 1: was it was the beginning of the school year. Had

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Speaker 1: a figure painting class taught by a guy named Richard Murkin,

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Speaker 1: whom you may know his work from The New Yorker

370
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Speaker 1: or or other places. He was actually on the cover

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Speaker 1: one of the heads on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts club

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Speaker 1: band fash and a hat because he was friends with

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Speaker 1: Peter Blake, good friends with Peter Blake. So anyway, he

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Speaker 1: um Richard Merkin was teaching and uh, it was the

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Speaker 1: first class of the year, and I looked over and

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Speaker 1: there in the corner was Tina Weymouth setting up her

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Speaker 1: easel and so that's where I met her. Now, how

378
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: how deep into your career at Risdy, this is what year?

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Speaker 1: This is my second year? She she transferred in from Barnard,

380
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: so she was a new kid. Okay. Now, one thing

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00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: that comes up in the book frequently is other men

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00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: hitting on Tina. Okay, hey, how did that make you feel?

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Speaker 1: And be uh, why do you think or what's your

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Speaker 1: insight into Tina that she stayed with you? I mean,

385
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: obviously there are a lot of stories the opposite, if

386
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: nothing else, Michelle Phillips and the Mamas and Papa's poor Michelle. Um.

387
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: You know, Uh, I was always okay with these guys

388
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 1: who who I could tell they were coming on to

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Speaker 1: Tina because somehow I felt secure in my relationship with her,

390
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: secure enough that I had I didn't have to be jealous.

391
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: I think they're I'd have been one or two times

392
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: before we got married where I felt a little jealous

393
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: of some guy or another. But once we were married,

394
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: which was in ninety seven, I, uh, I felt confident

395
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: that I didn't have to worry about such things. Okay,

396
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: you graduate from Risdy what years at seventy three four?

397
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: Then what's the plan? Then the plan is I went home.

398
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: I I painted a mural. The plan was to move

399
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: to New York. But I knew I had to have

400
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: a little money in my pocket to move to New York.

401
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: So I went home to Pittsburgh, and through my father's connections,

402
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: I got a job painting a mural in a hospital,

403
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: the Iron Ear Hospital of Pittsburgh. And the mural had

404
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: already been des mined by some other guy and I

405
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: was supposed to make blow it up and make it huge,

406
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: which I did, and it took a long time up

407
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: on a scaffolding, you know, on a stairway. But but

408
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: uh I got I think dollars, Well, that's a lot

409
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: of money. Yeah, And so I had enough. Then I thought, okay,

410
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: I can move to New York now, which was which

411
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: I did in in late September, and h or maybe

412
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: it was early October. It was early October, and um, well,

413
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: David had agreed to move to New York and he,

414
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: in fact, he moved there before I did, and uh

415
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: Tina had agreed, and the three of us got aloft

416
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: together on Christie Street, which which I found after much

417
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: searching around New York. And uh uh Tina's brother, who's

418
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: an architect, said, Chris, don't bother about the village voice,

419
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: don't look in there. Look at the industrial section of

420
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: the New York Times on Sunday. So I said, okay,

421
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: and he was right. That's where you found the good lofts.

422
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: You know that nobody lived in yet. And we got

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00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: a nice one on Christie Street, just below Houston on

424
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: what is called the Lower East Side, and it was

425
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: three blocks from cb GBS, maybe three and a half.

426
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: Uh this is my friend who lived across the street

427
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: from CBGB said Chris, there's something going on over at

428
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: this club across the street. You gotta check it out.

429
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: And I went in there and I checked it out

430
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: and there was like nothing happening at all. It was

431
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: in the middle of the week, but there was a

432
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: like four guy is playing pool in the back. And

433
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: I went back there and they were Latino guys and

434
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: uh one of them was wearing like a shark skin

435
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: suit and a tie and had a real sharp crew cut,

436
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,719
Speaker 1: I thought, So I asked him, you know what's going on?

437
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: Is there are going to be any music tonight? You said,

438
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: in a very heavy Mexican accent, No, man, not tonight.

439
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: But you come back on the weekend the Ramons will

440
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: be here. And I thought, oh, a Mexican band. Interesting,

441
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: And uh, well I came back on the weekend the

442
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: Ramones were there, and I soon found out they were

443
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: not a Mexican band. Well what else would you like

444
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: to know? Well, know what, I guess what I'm asking

445
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: is when you, David and Tina moved to New York,

446
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: is your plan to be a painter or a rock

447
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: and roll musician? Well, we we, David and I hoped

448
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: to be rock and roll musicians. And because we felt like,

449
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're young. We can do this while

450
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: we're young. If if we don't succeed, we can we

451
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: can be painters or you know whatever, conceptual artists, whatever

452
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: we want to be, and we'll still be considered young

453
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: painters at age forty or whatever. Um, we we kept

454
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: in touch with the art world. We were we were

455
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: very you know, closely knit with the art world, and

456
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: in fact, a lot of people that came to c

457
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: B GBS to hear us and the other bands play.

458
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: We're artists of various types, you know, um, people in

459
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: the visual arts, people in the performing arts. You know.

460
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: Philip Philip Glass would come to see us, you know,

461
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: and at that point in time, he kind of already

462
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: was Philip Glass, right, Yes, well it was early on,

463
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: but he he already had a very high reputation downtown. Yeah,

464
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: so what is everybody doing to stay alive? Um, I

465
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: had a h day. We all had day jobs. Mine

466
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: was I was a stock boy and shipper for for

467
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: Design Research, which we sold fancy European furniture and housewares,

468
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: and uh it was really fun because the store was

469
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: full of all these beautiful shop girls, you know, uh,

470
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: sales girls. And we also sold Merimecho clothing from Sweden,

471
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: so they all wore the striped merrime Echo t shirts.

472
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: And uh. There are a couple of poets that worked

473
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: with me down in the basement where we would we

474
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: would unload things off of trucks and then after they

475
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: get sold. We put them back on the trucks. Uh,

476
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: it was. It was a good, good day job. Nice people.

477
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: What did David David David, a friend of ours had resigned.

478
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: A friend of ours got a job at the at

479
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 1: the Museum of Modern Art, and he left his job

480
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: at an ad agency, also on fifty seventh Street. We

481
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: all worked on fifty seventh Street, which is so funny,

482
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 1: but uh so David went help make ads for people

483
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: like Prince Macha Belli and um Sergio Valenti and things

484
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 1: like that back in the seventies. And Tina was working

485
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 1: at Henry ben Dell, which was a very exclusive only

486
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: recently went out of business because of Trump's you know,

487
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: uh screwing up Fifth Avenue and they lost all their business. Okay,

488
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: with was David actually designing ads? No, he was operating

489
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: a stat machine, you know, photograph, photographing parts of the

490
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: ads and putting them together. So how does Tina become

491
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: a member of the band. I had actually asked Tina

492
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: to become a member of the band when we had

493
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: the artistics, when we were forming it, and she said,

494
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, that's a guy's thing. I'll be

495
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 1: very I'll support you in your efforts, but I don't

496
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: want to. No, she she just felt like it was

497
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: a bad idea, and um, but I kept after her

498
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: because I felt like the band we were gonna I

499
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: was forming with David was going to be a very

500
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 1: different type of band in terms of appearance and also sound,

501
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: and we weren't going to be like copying The Who

502
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: or the Rolling Stones or even the Velvet Underground. Really, uh,

503
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: we were going to be uh more unusual, uh than

504
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: than what people might have anticipated. You know, that we

505
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: were trying to be different and interesting. And I knew

506
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: that Tina share the similar aesthetic artistically, that she she

507
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: got what we were trying to do even before she

508
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: you know, started playing with us. And also I knew

509
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: that she had a fantastic sense of rhythm from dancing

510
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: with her and just you know, embracing her and you know,

511
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: when the records come on, when our favorite songs come on,

512
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: we would dance, you know, and I knew that she could,

513
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: you know, really feel the rhythm. So I kept asking her,

514
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: and I kept asking her, and she kept saying, no, no, no,

515
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 1: not a good idea. It's a it's a boy's club.

516
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: But then one day she walked into the loft with

517
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: a Fender Precision bass that she'd been putting down like

518
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: five dollars a week on for months evidently, and uh,

519
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: one of the happiest days in my life. Well, I

520
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: think she may have been the progenitor of female musician

521
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: bass players in terms of rock bands. I don't remember

522
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: anybody playing that role before that. I'm sure people email,

523
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: Well there was Susie Quatro was was of course. Well,

524
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: I had a couple of Susie Quatro records and on

525
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: one of them she even kind of looks like Tina,

526
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 1: And I said, Tina, look at this, and uh but uh,

527
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: and of course there's a great Carol Kay who teena

528
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: session bass player who Tina admires greatly. Um, and I'm

529
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: sure there were plenty others, but yeah, Tina was one

530
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 1: of the first down in uh Lower Manhattan to do it. Okay,

531
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: Now Tina is in the act when you finally play

532
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: CB GBS. Yes, yes, our first gig. It was in

533
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: in May of nineteen seventy five. And how did you

534
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: get that gig? I walked in, I asked Hilly Crystal,

535
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: the owner, I have this band and we'd like to audition,

536
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 1: and he said what kind of music you play? And

537
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: I said, well, we play in a style of our own.

538
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: And he chuckled like he'd heard that one before, I think,

539
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: and uh he said okay. You know, he had a

540
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: very basso voice. He said, okay, I suppose I could

541
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: put you on in front of the Ramones. And I said,

542
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: all right, we'll We'll take it. And that was our

543
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: audition night. Um, which was I think three days later.

544
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: So we had to think of a name. We didn't

545
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: even have a name yet, so we had to think

546
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: of a name, and our are our One of our

547
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: friends from Risty was visiting us at the time. He uh,

548
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: he now has a job at the Art Institute of Chicago.

549
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: But anyway, he said, he said, I've been I was

550
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: reading TV Guide and they have a glossary of television

551
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: technical terms, and one of the terms is talking head.

552
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: It means the the most boring but also the most

553
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: informative format of broadcasting. So we thought to ourselves, talking heads,

554
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: talking heads, that sounds good and we could relate to

555
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: it because it didn't connote any particular type of music

556
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: like heavy metal or country or you know, hard rock

557
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: or disco. Talking Heads. It could be anything. So we

558
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: went with that name, and we put Tina and I

559
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: had little t shirts made that said talking Heads on it,

560
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: and we walked through uh, Washington Square Park with it

561
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: with it on, and people would say, are you guys

562
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 1: in a band? Things like that, and so we thought, hmm,

563
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: I think this talking Heads name might work out. And

564
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: and that particular shirt of Tina's is now in the

565
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which, uh is kind

566
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: of sweet. Now, if you read the book, you find

567
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: out essentially you met everybody, but in that scene it's

568
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 1: CB G B of course, the guys from television, people

569
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: from Blondie, etcetera. Did you have the feeling that this

570
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: was in retrospect? Of course, it was really percolating a

571
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 1: big scene, and almost all of those acts got record deals,

572
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: some went on to great success. Did you have that

573
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: vibe when you were ave it? Yes, I had. I

574
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 1: had the impression that it was, you know, it started

575
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: off really small, and even then with television, Patti Smith, Blondie,

576
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: the Ramoons, ourselves band called the Mumps, even even when

577
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: they were only people in the audience on a given night.

578
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: I had the idea. I had the feeling that something, um,

579
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: something was getting really cool and good and and that

580
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: uh cb GBS was going to be like an incubator

581
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: for a scene where bands could sort of play their

582
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: play their original songs and maybe maybe they would not

583
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: even get through the song without making a big mistake

584
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: or something. But the audience was so small that not

585
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: that many people notice, and there was no internet, so

586
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: you you could make a mistake, you could have a

587
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: very awkward performance and uh still come back and do

588
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: it again the following week. And so it was that

589
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: kind of scene and uh, everybody was kind of, you know,

590
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: just learning how to do this, how to be a performer.

591
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: Petty Smith was a pretty good performer right from the

592
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: yet go because she had been doing poetry readings and

593
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: things and she had she had a lot of charisma.

594
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: Um But as this has more and more people came

595
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: and the band's got better and better, and all of

596
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: a sudden you had people from like Japan and London

597
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: and Hamburg, Germany, and people coming up from Atlanta, and

598
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: it just started to be, uh, a very exciting scene

599
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: and and there would be suddenly there would be lines

600
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: outside to get in, and yeah, I felt like, uh,

601
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: very fortunate to have been in the right place at

602
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: the right time. Now, needless to say, as you referenced earlier,

603
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: Talking Heads has a unique sound. Did it audience or

604
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 1: didn't resonate with the audience? Did you generate fans from

605
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 1: the beginning? Some people didn't get it. I think some

606
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: people still don't get it. But you know, the Kings

607
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: of downtown New York rock at that time, or the

608
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: New York Dolls and the various spinoffs of the New

609
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: York Dolls, and uh, we liked them. They were really

610
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: cool and everything, but we we certainly working to be

611
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: parading around in platform shoes and like purple trousers and stuff.

612
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: So um, there were some people that we were so

613
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: a contrary to the New York Dolls aesthetic that they

614
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 1: didn't really get us at first. But then eventually even

615
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: even some of the people who really didn't get us

616
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: came around. Okay, so how did Jerry get in the band? Well,

617
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: you know, Jerry Harrison was in the Modern Lovers, which

618
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: was a band that we greatly admired and played their

619
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: record a lot. Their record was produced, It was actually

620
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: a demo produced by John Kale that was later released

621
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: as an album. Uh, and we have been listening to that.

622
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: And I went home to Pittsburgh one time and one

623
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: of my mother's friends said, you know, Chris, my nephew

624
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: is in a band in Boston and they're really good.

625
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: And I said, who are they. What's the name of

626
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: the band. He said, oh, the Modern Lovers. Now I

627
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: knew that The Modern Lovers had broken up. Evidently she

628
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: didn't know it yet, but I said, oh, what's your

629
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: nephew his name and she said Ernie Brooks. I said, oh,

630
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: the bass players. She said yeah, and she she gave

631
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: me Ernie's contacts. So I had Ernie's contacts, and UM

632
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: went went back to New York from Pittsburgh, and I

633
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: like the next day or a couple of days later,

634
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 1: I was in a restaurant owned by Mickey Ruskin, who

635
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: who found in Max's Kansas City. But this this was

636
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: called The Local and h one of the cooks was

637
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: Julian Schnabelieva. Yeah, and uh so they were famous for

638
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: their hamburgers and their red wine. So we were having

639
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: some hamburger and a red wine, and Tina and David

640
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: and I and I looked across the room and who

641
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: should I see. But Ernie Brooks. I recognized him by

642
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 1: his big head of curly hair that he had on

643
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: the album cover. So I walked over and I said, hey, Ernie,

644
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: I was just talking to your aunt in Pittsburgh. And

645
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: he said, oh, yeah, the Showers Liz Liz Shower. I said, yeah, exactly,

646
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 1: and she's a friend of my mother's and she said

647
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 1: that I should get in touch with you. So here

648
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: I am. And he said, well, what's happening. What do

649
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: you guys do and and I said, well, you know,

650
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: actually we're looking for a third member of the band,

651
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: some somebody who can help us, you know, fill out

652
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: the sound and make the songs more beautiful. And um,

653
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: he said, well who what what instrument are you looking for?

654
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: I said keyboards maybe maybe keyboards and guitar And he

655
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: said have you have you thought of Jerry Harrison? And

656
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: I said wow, I would love to get in touch

657
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: with Jerry Harrison. And Ernie gave me a number, so

658
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: I called up Jerry and Jerry said, well guess what. Um,

659
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: he said, this is very interesting, but guess what. I

660
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: just enrolled in a master's program for architecture here at

661
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: Harvard and UH and besides that the breakup of the

662
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: Modern Lovers was a very difficult experience for me. So

663
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: I'm not going to rush into anything, but I'd be

664
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: interested to hear you play. So I said, okay, we'll

665
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: we'll plan a gig up and up in Boston and

666
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: you can come hear us play, which we did, and

667
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: one thing led to another, and when we when we

668
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: finally had a recording contract, Jerry said, okay, I'd like

669
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: to join the band. He had played with us a

670
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: few times before that, you know, so we knew that

671
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: it worked well. Uh. You know you mentioned that he's

672
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: a single child in the book and he's at Harvard.

673
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: How difficult was it for him to drop out? Um?

674
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: You know, I I never asked Jerry how difficult it was,

675
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: but he did. He did that, I think he did.

676
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: I think he did one semester, maybe even did a

677
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: full year. He might have done a full year. So

678
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: how do you get a record deal? How did we? Uh?

679
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: We had people approaching us offering us record deals, and uh,

680
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: you know, I can think of three off the top

681
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: of my head, and one of them was seymour Stein

682
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: of Sire Records. And uh, we had made a couple

683
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 1: of demos, and we we listened back to these demos

684
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: and we thought, uh, we're not ready yet. This is

685
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, we can rock cb GBS, but we're not

686
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: gonna like rock the billboard charts sounding like we do now.

687
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: And uh we we knew that if if we put

688
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: out a record too soon and it wasn't up to

689
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't happening, then we might not get

690
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: a chance to do do one. We might not get

691
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 1: another chance. So we were very careful. Seymour offered us

692
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,879
Speaker 1: this deal and we made him wait for a year

693
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: and a half, eighteen months, and he was poor guy,

694
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: was so nervous that some other record company was gonna

695
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: snatch us up in the meantime. But but we knew,

696
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: we had a feeling about Seymour and in his company's sire,

697
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: that they were independent, that they were in New York.

698
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: They their offices were on a town in a townhouse

699
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: on West seventy four a Street, and we could, according

700
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,879
Speaker 1: to Seymour, any anyway, We could go there any time

701
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: we wanted and talk to him. So we thought that

702
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: sounds a lot better than some guy in you know,

703
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: l a or at the top of a skyscraper in

704
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: New York. Who who you know? We can't even get

705
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 1: in to see him. Uh, and so we decided to

706
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: go with Seymour. We had we asked Danny Fields, who

707
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: was managing the Ramons. We said, Danny, what's your experience?

708
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: The Ramans were on Sire and Dan Danny, what's your

709
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: experience with Sire Records? And he said, well, Chris in

710
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: a nutshell, Seymour is always done right by us, And

711
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: that was like all I needed to know. He's Danny

712
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: also said, you know, no record company is perfect. With

713
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: any record company, you need somebody to tell them what

714
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: to do. But um, uh but Seymour has always done

715
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: right by us. So so we signed a deal with Seymour.

716
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 1: And uh, I'm really glad we did because it worked

717
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: out great. Okay, so you make the first record. Needless

718
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: to say, the first record sounds very different from what

719
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: came thereafter talking had sent Were you happy with the

720
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: result at the time? Yeah? I was. I I um,

721
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 1: I'm still happy with the result. It's it's a very

722
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: sweet um and uh rich that sounding album. I I

723
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: think my way of thinking about it is it was

724
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: a great start, great beginning, and I when I listened

725
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: to it today. If I listened to a song like

726
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: Don't Worry about the Government or Psycho Killer or Pulled Up,

727
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: I think, Wow, we were we were really something. Okay,

728
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: so the first album comes out, do you have a

729
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: feeling there's momentum. I we had momentum in uh sort

730
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: of like the big cities, but we didn't We didn't

731
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: have any worldwide momentum. And I remember looking at the

732
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 1: charts and thinking, uh, well, we're not really doing that great.

733
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: But the fact is that that we were, um, we

734
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: were making a big impression and establishing a reputation for

735
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: being artists, you know. Um and uh we we we

736
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: um we we we we. We had sort of like

737
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: the best of the best world we could possibly have.

738
00:52:55,880 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: We we had some commercial success, not a huge, huge amount,

739
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: but enough that we can make another record. We had

740
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: artistic success, which was validated, you know, by the Voice

741
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: in the New York Times and by our friends. And

742
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: we also had well, we had enough financial success that

743
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: we could give up our day jobs. And that's a

744
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: very significant thing. Staying with staying with business. Traditionally, the

745
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: drummer is the business guy in the group. Was that

746
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: the case with you in talking heads. You know. That's

747
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 1: what Gary Kerfer said to me. It's always the drummer

748
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: who runs the band. Well, um, I think all of

749
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 1: us had a pretty good business sense, but but maybe

750
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: I was the person who who was was comfortable, uh

751
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: talking to people about it. But it got to the

752
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: point after not very long that that I realized you

753
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: can't manage your own band. You have to have somebody

754
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: else do it for you. Okay, Now, the first record

755
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: makes an impression, second record is a whole new thing.

756
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: You work with Eno. You do a cover of taking

757
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: Me to the River, tell Us a Genesis and the

758
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: story of making that record. Well, um, we were on

759
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: a big tour of Europe and the UK with the

760
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: Ramones and when we when we came to London, Eno

761
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: came to see us and we we met with him.

762
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: We had a nice lunch with him, and then we

763
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 1: went to his home and we talked about you know,

764
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: music basically, and one thing led to another and we decided,

765
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, would be a good producer for us, and

766
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: and you know was interested in doing it, and and

767
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,280
Speaker 1: so that's how that that's how we got him involved

768
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 1: with Eno. And at the time though he hadn't really

769
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: worked with anybody significant. He'd been in uh Roxy music

770
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: and he'd done his own solo albums. Correct. Yes, yes,

771
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 1: he had also done uh just around the time before,

772
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: right before we worked with him, he was working with

773
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:25,320
Speaker 1: David Bowie on the Low the Low trilogy and also

774
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: with Divo. He produced the first Divo album, which he

775
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: did in Germany, and um so, so you know, uh,

776
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: maybe the record companies weren't thrilled that we were working

777
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: with Divo instead of like you know, Roy Thomas Baker

778
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: or somebody like that. But but he was right up

779
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: our alley. He was our kind of artist, and we

780
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 1: had his records. We collected his record as we admired

781
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,879
Speaker 1: his work, and so uh, he agreed to do it.

782
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: Now on that second album, more songs about buildings and food.

783
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: We had already been performing all those songs live, and

784
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 1: some of them we had been performing for years live,

785
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,879
Speaker 1: but they didn't make it onto the first record. So

786
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: and we had been touring like crazy. So when we

787
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: got to the studio at Compass Point in the Bahamas,

788
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 1: which was delightful, all you know, had to do was

789
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:33,720
Speaker 1: like set up the mics and then he could treat

790
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 1: the various instruments, instruments, mostly the drums, but sometimes other

791
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: instruments with this little briefcase synthesizer he had and um

792
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:49,280
Speaker 1: by treating, i mean putting effects and delays and things

793
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: like that on the instruments, and that was his main contribution.

794
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: But he also helped, like like when we came to

795
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,919
Speaker 1: Take Me to the River, which we been playing kind

796
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: of up tempo, like Al Green's version is quite up tempo,

797
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: but you know, said you should slow this down. You

798
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: should play this as slow as you possibly can without

799
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: making a mistake. And so we thought, okay, we'll try that,

800
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: and we did it and it was super sexy that way,

801
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: and uh so that that was uh of course that

802
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: became a hit, and it was our first hit and

803
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: the whole the whole experience down at Compass Point was

804
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: just super cool and everything went smooth and uh we

805
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: had a wonderful time. Well, it's all interesting. In the book.

806
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: You talked about taking Me to the River. Then ultimately

807
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: there sound where you feel like it's underwater, which is

808
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: that you described that I've always felt that, you know,

809
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: with the guitar, you know, during the solo part. Okay,

810
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: the record becomes a hit. How does that change in

811
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: the band? Well, um, I don't know that it really

812
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: changed us. It just made we were able to get

813
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: paid better by nightclubs because we had a song that

814
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: was on the radio, so we could get you know,

815
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 1: more money. It wasn't a whole lot more, and it

816
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: wasn't a whole lot of money, but it was like

817
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 1: better than we had been doing. And who was booking

818
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: who's booking all those tours in those days? It was

819
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: a guy named Stu wine trout at William Morris and

820
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: uh ste was it was quite a character. But um,

821
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 1: you know what we Gary really I think Gary Kerr first,

822
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: of course, was your manager. He was our manager and

823
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: I think he pretty much directed Stu. Now, Ste, we're

824
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: gonna play here, here and here, you get on the

825
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: phone and book it. And um we we played everything

826
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: for college campuses, universities to pizza parlors and uh uh

827
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: supermarkets that that were out of business and we're empty.

828
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 1: We played all kinds of crazy venues which which um

829
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 1: which uh. Later we were followed by Blondie and by

830
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: Elvis Costello and by the Clash. Because there was no

831
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: circuit for for bands like us, we were. We were

832
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: we weren't very big, you know, we weren't like Foreigner

833
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: or something. So a lot of promoters weren't interested. So

834
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: we had to find these young indie guys to to

835
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: promote our shows. Sometimes we promoted them ourselves, even when

836
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: you'd had the second album, etcetera. Yes, yes, uh okay,

837
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: third album. Of course, fear of music and of course

838
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: this ain't no party, this ain't no just go There

839
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: ain't no fool around. It brings you to a higher level.

840
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: But after the third record is when you start to

841
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: get winto the fact that maybe David Byrne is going

842
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: to go on his own tech. Yeah. I what I

843
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 1: found out was that David all Along had would prefer

844
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: to be a solo artist. Um, the group was just

845
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: something that he uh, I mean, he was a real

846
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 1: part of the group. We were we were really collaborators,

847
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: and we were friends and we were you know, we

848
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: lived together in the same loft, and um, we really

849
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: of the time we agreed on things. You know, we

850
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: didn't agree on every single thing. But but now, Bob,

851
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: I have to be very careful because I don't want

852
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: to sound like the whiney drummer who's who's embittered by

853
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: the famous lead singer, because that's not the case. I'm

854
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: not embittered, and I have great respect for David and

855
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 1: his talents, which are immense. But I still think that

856
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: he had his eyes on a solo career from almost

857
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: day two, maybe not day one, day two, and uh,

858
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, some people are like, let's jump forward when

859
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: he ultimately does go solo and you form top top club,

860
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: you have a hit, and up until his recent uh

861
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: mega concert dancing experience, he has not had He's had

862
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 1: a lot of ink, but he hasn't had any huge success.

863
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: How do you feel? How do you feel about that? Well? Um,

864
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 1: all I can say is our first Tom Tom Club

865
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: album was like magic to me. Uh, Chris Blackwell gave it. Now.

866
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: One thing Seymour did, which which I can you know,

867
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: make a little dig about, was he offered David a

868
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 1: solo deal because David wanted to do a solo record.

869
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: So then Jerry said, oh, if David's gonna do a

870
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 1: solo record, I'm gonna do a solo record. So he

871
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: offered Jerry a solo record, and then Tina and I

872
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: were like, well, what are we gonna do? And Gary

873
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: ker first went to went to Seamar and said what

874
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: can you do for record deal for Chris and Tina?

875
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: And he said, I can't afford three talking ed solo albums,

876
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: and so he offered us nothing, and um Chris Blackwell,

877
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: Chris Blackwell of Island Records, who knows the value of

878
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 1: a good rhym rhythm section, said you know what, Gary,

879
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: I'd love to do a single with Chris and Tina.

880
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 1: Have him come on down. He already knew us from

881
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: our recordings at at a Compass Point, and he said,

882
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: have him come on down. Cut a single. If I

883
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: like it, they can do a whole album. So we

884
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 1: went down to Compass Point and we we made a

885
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 1: record called Wordy Rapping Hood and uh he heard that

886
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: and he said, okay, I want you to make a

887
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: whole album, but first we're gonna release this one as

888
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: a single, and uh it it went to well, it

889
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 1: went top ten in about twenty different countries in Europe

890
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: and in Latin America. And you know, then we had

891
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: Genius of Love. And Genius of Love was a huge

892
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: hit in America, so so big that, um well, it

893
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 1: continues to be sampled by various hip hop artists and

894
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: R and B artists and uh, it was it was

895
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 1: like magic. It was a great, great success for us,

896
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: and it gave Tina and I. You know, I think

897
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: people realized, oh, Tina and I aren't just like David's

898
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: little friends. They actually have ideas of their own and

899
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: uh and I think, um, I think people realized that

900
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 1: talking Heads was was was actually more of a shared experience,

901
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: like the the art of talking Heads was more of

902
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: a shared experience than than than one particular guy's uh ideas. Okay,

903
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: but throughout the book, certainly you say at some point

904
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: that you believe David is on the spectrum, but he

905
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 1: does do some very interesting thing. You said, he dropped

906
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 1: out of Risdy after one year, he left his significant

907
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: other wife after being inducted to the raw could roll

908
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: a Hall of fame literally that night. But the most

909
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 1: interesting thing in a business level is you agree that

910
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: you would split songwriting credit along with eno. Tell us

911
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 1: about the songwriting credit and who really wrote those songs? Well,

912
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: those songs were created by the five people who were

913
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 1: in the studio working mostly mostly created by uh, Tina, Jerry, David,

914
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: and myself from improvisations in the studio. And then we

915
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: would and sometimes Brian would be playing something in the

916
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 1: control room while we were out in the studio, but

917
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 1: more often than not he was listening and he would

918
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 1: add things later. But uh, the original basic tracks that

919
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: all those songs were on Remaining Light come from. We're

920
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: improvised by the four musicians in the studio. Then we

921
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 1: took the we arranged, uh, Brian and the engineer mainly

922
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 1: arranged the different jam sessions that we did so that

923
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 1: they would uh evolve into different parts of a song,

924
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 1: like an A section, of B section, a C section,

925
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: and then we would do some rough mixes of those,

926
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: at which point David was expected to write lyrics because

927
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 1: at a certain point, actually pretty early on, he said,

928
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 1: I'm I want to be the one who writes the lyrics.

929
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to sing anyone else's lyrics. So we're like, okay, cool,

930
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:48,439
Speaker 1: and uh he uh. We we all knew after those

931
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 1: compass points sessions on Remaining Light that that we had

932
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 1: something very extraordinary. And he said, you know, this is

933
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: so extraordinary. I can't just write like something off the

934
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: top of my head. I gotta live with these tracks

935
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:07,439
Speaker 1: for a little while, and uh, then I'll be able

936
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: to write something. So we said, great, we understood that completely,

937
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: and I think he took I think he rented a

938
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: car and drove around the country listening to cassettes and

939
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: of the basic tracks, and also listening to the radio

940
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 1: with evangelical preachers and whatnot on the various regional radio stations,

941
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 1: and he came back with some great lyrics and at

942
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 1: that point Eno helped arrange some of the background vocals

943
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 1: and the U and actually I think he he wrote,

944
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:47,919
Speaker 1: for example, uh, the melody to Letting the Days Go By,

945
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 1: you know, the chorus of of Once in a Lifetime.

946
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 1: And he made major contributions. Long story short, when when

947
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: when this great album was finally finished and we got

948
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: our advanced copies, Tina and Jerry and I am, we're

949
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 1: looking at him. And the agreement had been that it

950
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 1: would say music by in alphabetical order, David Byrne, Brian Eno,

951
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:21,600
Speaker 1: Chris Brance, Jerry Harrison, and Tina Weymouth, but instead it

952
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:28,759
Speaker 1: said music by Brian David Byrne, Brian Eno, and Talking Heads. Well,

953
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 1: I thought David was a member of Talking Heads. But anyway,

954
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: you could see that the rest of us were being

955
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 1: treated like Sidemen all of a sudden, as if we

956
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 1: hadn't hadn't really contributed to the extent that we had,

957
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 1: you know, so we we had to deal with that.

958
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:55,440
Speaker 1: Brian wanted Brian wanted the the front cover to say

959
01:08:55,680 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 1: Remain in Light by Talking Heads and Brian Eno and

960
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 1: we're like, oh my god, how are we gonna how

961
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: are we gonna talk about it this one? And Gary

962
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 1: Ker first went to Brian. He said, you know, Brian,

963
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a nine month promotional tour behind this album.

964
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 1: Can you do that tour? And Brian said, oh no, Gary,

965
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 1: I couldn't possibly do that. You know, I don't tour.

966
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,600
Speaker 1: And so Gary said, well, then how can we advertise

967
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: it as Brian you know and talking Heads if you're

968
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: not there? And uh, well that that ended that problem

969
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 1: right there. But despite the credit in terms of in

970
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: terms of publishing royalties, did you get one fifth? No?

971
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:50,759
Speaker 1: Really no, I did not. So what was the final

972
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: split on the payment? You know, I prefer not to

973
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,599
Speaker 1: get into the details because off the top of my head,

974
01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:00,919
Speaker 1: I don't exactly know what they are. I a good idea,

975
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 1: but you know, uh, you know, it didn't work out

976
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: the way it was supposed to work out. How about

977
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 1: all the other albums? You know? Are you talking about

978
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 1: performance royalties or I'm talking about publishing royalties? Publishing royalties? Well, um,

979
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:20,559
Speaker 1: I'm afraid David gets gets the lion's share of most

980
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:25,760
Speaker 1: of that, but you do get some. Yes. Now it's

981
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: like it's almost like Godfather three. It looks like David's

982
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 1: out of the band, and then you and Tina always

983
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 1: seem to find a way to get him back in. Yeah,

984
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:39,640
Speaker 1: well you know you have to use psychology and uh,

985
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,839
Speaker 1: and we learned. We learned that if you make David

986
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: thinks something's his idea, it might get done. And so

987
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 1: what could I say? I think every rock band who's

988
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: who's been around for a while has many twists and

989
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,760
Speaker 1: turns and ups and downs, and and we had our

990
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 1: share too, Okay. Uh, after true stories, do you say

991
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 1: to yourself and then naked, do you say to yourself

992
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 1: this is ultimately done? Or do you don't always have

993
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 1: a hope that, well, we'll do it one more time.

994
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: I always had a hope that we do it one

995
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:22,600
Speaker 1: more time? Yes, And has it ever come close? I

996
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 1: wish I could say yes, but I don't think so. No,

997
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: a couple a couple of times I got my hopes up,

998
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 1: but lately I'm I'm kind of resigned to the fact

999
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 1: that it's not going to happen. Um, although Talking Heads

1000
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 1: has a great career on Broadway. Now there's some great

1001
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 1: talking Head shows songs being performed on Broadway. So I

1002
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 1: have you seen David Extravaganza in person? I have not.

1003
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: I confess I have not. I had I been invited

1004
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 1: to the show, I probably would would have been happy

1005
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 1: to go, but no invitation was extended and I didn't

1006
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:09,600
Speaker 1: want to just drop in. And how how often or

1007
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 1: when was the last time you actually spoke face to

1008
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: face with David. I spoke face to face with David

1009
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 1: for the last time in two thousand three, So it's

1010
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 1: been a good long while. We we cut. We communicate

1011
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 1: by email, mostly about you know, what songs can be

1012
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: used in what movies and what? You know? When was

1013
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 1: the last time you had an email from him? Oh?

1014
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: Probably probably a couple of weeks ago. Okay, So after

1015
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 1: Talking Heads is behind Tom Tom Club continues to go,

1016
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:54,040
Speaker 1: but also you and Tina start producing records. Yeah, how

1017
01:12:54,080 --> 01:13:00,600
Speaker 1: does that happen? Well? Um, it kind of uh uh.

1018
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 1: We hadn't really planned on being producers or anything. But

1019
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 1: our good friend Alex Sadkin, who was an extraordinary engineer

1020
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: and producer for Bob Marley and a Third World, and

1021
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 1: he ended up producing, engineering and mixing things like I

1022
01:13:24,360 --> 01:13:26,640
Speaker 1: want to Know what Love Is for Foreigner, you know,

1023
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: big hits. He was scheduled he had worked with Bob

1024
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:34,640
Speaker 1: Marley and he was scheduled to produce Ziggy Marley and

1025
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:40,640
Speaker 1: the Melody Makers, Bob Marley's Kids and um. He was

1026
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 1: down in Nassau Compass Point working with some band when

1027
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 1: tragically he was thrown from a open air jeep. Uh,

1028
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,080
Speaker 1: they had an accident. He was thrown, hit his head

1029
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 1: and never came to. So suddenly Virgin America, which was

1030
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: a brand company, Uh, they needed producers for Ziggy Marley

1031
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:08,640
Speaker 1: and the Melody Makers. And Tina's younger brother, Lark Weymouth

1032
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 1: was was young a and R man there and he

1033
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 1: said to uh, Nancy Jeffries. Nancy Jeffries was in charge

1034
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 1: of the Ziggy Marley and the Melody Maker's project. He said, Uh, Nancy,

1035
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 1: have you have you thought about using Chris and Tina

1036
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 1: because you know they love reggae. They know a lot

1037
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: about you know, island culture and stuff. Maybe they would

1038
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 1: be good. So we got a call from Nancy Jefferies

1039
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 1: and she said, would you be interested in doing this?

1040
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 1: And we said, yeah, we would be interested because Talking

1041
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: Heads wasn't touring at the time or anything. And um,

1042
01:14:55,760 --> 01:15:00,080
Speaker 1: we went down to Jamaica to meet Ziggy. Uh know.

1043
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: First we we met his mother, Rita Marley, in a

1044
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 1: sushi bar in New York and she said, she said, Okay,

1045
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:10,600
Speaker 1: you guys seem cool to me, and uh she she

1046
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:16,720
Speaker 1: remembered meeting us before somewhere and uh she liked her

1047
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 1: Tom Tom called music Genius of Love. She loved that,

1048
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:24,760
Speaker 1: and um, so she said, you've got to come down

1049
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 1: to Jamaican meet Ziggy. So we met Ziggy and uh

1050
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 1: we flew down there and uh Ziggy said, yeah, man,

1051
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 1: you can do it. So uh we started working with

1052
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:41,960
Speaker 1: Ziggy the first day, you said to me. This was

1053
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 1: at Sigma Sound in New York because we we thought

1054
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,639
Speaker 1: if we if we were produced the record in Jamaica,

1055
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,760
Speaker 1: things might get kind of out of control. We we

1056
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,519
Speaker 1: should have it here in New York and and so

1057
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: we did that and the first day Ziggy came to

1058
01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 1: me said Chris France, how come you bring your wife

1059
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: to the studio, man, I said, well, Ziggy, First of all,

1060
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 1: Tina knows more about music than I do. The second

1061
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 1: of all, she's gonna be a great producer, so just

1062
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 1: sit back and enjoy it. And uh, in fact, in fact,

1063
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 1: it went very well. That record did great. It was

1064
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:34,080
Speaker 1: called Conscious Party. Another new signing to Virgin America at

1065
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 1: that time was Keith Richards. So Keith Richards came in

1066
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:41,000
Speaker 1: and played on a song called Lee and Molly, which

1067
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 1: is about a interracial relationship, and he was really cool.

1068
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 1: And uh we had um q Massakla come in and

1069
01:16:53,200 --> 01:17:00,400
Speaker 1: arrange background vocals for a group of um Zulu women,

1070
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 1: young Zulu women who were in town doing a musical

1071
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:09,800
Speaker 1: called Sarah Fina, and uh Baba Ola Tunji dropped in.

1072
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 1: Um a whole lot of Jamaican uh dance hall artists

1073
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:18,919
Speaker 1: stopped by to see what was happening. And the records

1074
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 1: sold like millions. So it was a wonderful experience. Okay,

1075
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 1: so needles to say, Talking Heads doesn't make another record,

1076
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:31,240
Speaker 1: you have success with Tom Tom Club. So for the

1077
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:35,000
Speaker 1: last twenty five years, how much of that was working,

1078
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 1: how much of that was rest and relaxation my last

1079
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 1: twenty five years. Well, I've I've taken plenty of time off.

1080
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:49,960
Speaker 1: I assure you we we like to go sailing. I

1081
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 1: know you like to ski. When when our kids were younger,

1082
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time at Crested Butte and

1083
01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:01,919
Speaker 1: loved it there. Uh and of course also in New England.

1084
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:06,760
Speaker 1: Um but as you know, out west is kind of

1085
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 1: more fun, especially the middle of winter. Uh. We uh

1086
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,799
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time sailing because we love to sail.

1087
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 1: But we've also done several Tom Tom Club albums. Uh.

1088
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:27,600
Speaker 1: And we've done plenty of Tom Tom Club tours, sometimes

1089
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 1: with a package, sometimes just on ourselves, by ourselves. The

1090
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 1: last time we we played was I think six years ago.

1091
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:39,960
Speaker 1: You know, nobody's breaking down our door for a new

1092
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 1: Tom Tom Club album. But we're okay with that because

1093
01:18:43,439 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 1: we're we've already done some good stuff and um I

1094
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:55,920
Speaker 1: I we're more active in our community here in Fairfield,

1095
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:59,840
Speaker 1: Connecticut than we used to be, and we uh we

1096
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:04,840
Speaker 1: enjoy that. Tina Tina was really not too long ago

1097
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 1: inducted into the Connecticut Women's Hall of Fame. Wow, that's

1098
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 1: pretty cool. It's a big deal, and um, I mean

1099
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 1: she's a really good company there. And uh, then I

1100
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 1: decided I would write a book. And that was a

1101
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. Okay, well, obviously you've had this

1102
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 1: health blip, but are you sailing into the sunset or

1103
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: do you in the back of your mind, is there

1104
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: some artistic project that you still want to cook up? Well,

1105
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:42,640
Speaker 1: Tina and I have been encouraged by what's happening with

1106
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 1: electronic music today. Um, I'm not referring to, um, the

1107
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 1: kind of music you you necessarily here on uh pop

1108
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:59,840
Speaker 1: popular radio. I'm I'm referring more to an underground thing

1109
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:05,080
Speaker 1: and uh and we dig the underground life. So we're

1110
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:09,639
Speaker 1: thinking that we we a few years back we did

1111
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:15,879
Speaker 1: a record um for a label run by the Chicks

1112
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:19,760
Speaker 1: on Speed and they were friends of ours there from

1113
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:24,679
Speaker 1: Holland or they were at the time, and they said,

1114
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 1: would you do a We're gonna do this album called

1115
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:31,800
Speaker 1: girl Monster with with with all girl artists. Well, I know,

1116
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 1: I'm not a girl artist, So we put Tina's name

1117
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 1: on it and it was it was very well received

1118
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:46,439
Speaker 1: on an underground in an underground way, and um, so

1119
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 1: we we thought, well, maybe we should do like an

1120
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 1: electronic duo, or it's just Tina and myself, some electronic drums,

1121
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:02,679
Speaker 1: some keyboards, some bass, and some vocals, and we don't

1122
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: have to have a big production. It can be very minimalist.

1123
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:12,400
Speaker 1: We don't have to have a big stage show because

1124
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 1: maybe we won't even go out on tour, or maybe

1125
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 1: we will and we'll we'll have some you know, interesting

1126
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 1: little stage production that that um doesn't necessarily look like

1127
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 1: a rock and roll show. So we're thinking along those lines.

1128
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,640
Speaker 1: I'm also thinking about writing a book about my beagles

1129
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:41,679
Speaker 1: because they travel with us everywhere. Poppy has has crossed

1130
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:47,160
Speaker 1: the Atlantic twenty two, no, twenty four times more than

1131
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 1: most Americans. And are you painting at all? Well, that

1132
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, my son, uh Egan France is Uh is

1133
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 1: doing the painting for the whole family right now. He's

1134
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:03,479
Speaker 1: really good, really great. He's got to show up in

1135
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 1: Berlin starting next week. I think he's an art bossle.

1136
01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:13,599
Speaker 1: He's serious, he's serious. And what about your others? Uh?

1137
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:18,600
Speaker 1: Your daughter? Oh? Oh, we only have two boys. His

1138
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 1: name is his name is Robin, his nickname. He's an

1139
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:26,599
Speaker 1: electronic artist and he's got his own label called craft

1140
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 1: Jerks like craft work but with J and a Z

1141
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:36,280
Speaker 1: craftjerks and he's on his like I don't know how

1142
01:22:36,280 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 1: many releases twenty and uh and they sell. You know,

1143
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 1: they're small batches, but they sell. And he also uh

1144
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 1: well lately nobody's performing live, but he also performs live

1145
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 1: as kid Jin sing as a DJ. Okay. Now, needless

1146
01:22:57,400 --> 01:23:01,640
Speaker 1: to say, the musical landscape is littered with people who

1147
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:04,800
Speaker 1: are of household names and have no money in your

1148
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:08,920
Speaker 1: particular case, or the royalties and the sinks uh keeping

1149
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: you comfortable? Thank goodness. Yes, we Tina and I were

1150
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:16,840
Speaker 1: very fortunate and we had a few good years and

1151
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:20,639
Speaker 1: we sucked some away. Good to know. Okay, Chris, I

1152
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:23,599
Speaker 1: think we've covered the basics. If you want to go

1153
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:27,639
Speaker 1: into in much more detail, needless to say, learn much

1154
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:29,360
Speaker 1: more about the New York scene and what it was

1155
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 1: like to be in that and to be happening in

1156
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 1: the late seventies and early eighties. Certainly read Remain in Love,

1157
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 1: Chris's memoir out on July. Chris, thanks so much for

1158
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 1: doing this. Thank you, Bob. It's a pleasure. Until next time.

1159
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 1: This is Bob left sus