WEBVTT - Bonus: Checking in with AJ and Andy 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.880 Class Action is a production of I Heart Radio and 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:09.720 Sound Argument. So hello everyone, I'm Kevin Huffman and I'm Lisa, 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:15.120 and you're listening to a special bonus podcast with two 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:20.000 of our favorite people, A J. Belieta de Luna and 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.759 and this Kara from St. Mary's or formerly from St. 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:28.080 Mary's University. So I wanted to just kick it off 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.960 by asking the two of you just to reflect a 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.000 little bit. Either one reflect a little bit about the 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.280 series and you know what was your reaction? How did 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.960 it work for you? Well, let me just begin by saying, 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.680 Hi Kevin, Hi Lisa, and of course Hi Andy. I 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:50.120 have missed you so much this year. So my first 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:54.440 reflection is the obvious. You know, when you guys came 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:56.480 here and you brought the crew and the boom mix 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:00.560 and if you might remember orientation, the hunting down, the 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.160 steps in the crowd, cheering and h you know, that 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.080 was a kind of our first recording that we had. 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.080 And then you were everywhere and nowhere at the same time, 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.640 and we kind of forgot that you were there. But 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.040 now I remember that you're not there, and I actually 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.319 miss you. So thank you for having the bonus coverage 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:25.760 because that gives us a chance to to reconnect. For me, 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.640 you know, there were so many phone calls and emails 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:34.039 and the wow I didn't know from people. I was 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:36.360 shocked by that. I was shocked that we were trending 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:38.800 of Canada. It was just really humbling for me to 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.399 be a part of this, more so because you did 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.720 such an amazing job highlighting my students and what they 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:48.800 were going through. And I think I've told this to 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.400 the dean. I thought that I was pretty much in 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.080 touch what was going on with our students. I knew 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.160 that they were working hard. I knew what we were 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.160 putting them through. It was difficult. I knew it was 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.680 a good purpose for were it. I don't think I 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.240 really knew, you know, what I learned in the podcast, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.760 because there was a lot more that was going on. 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:10.240 And he would tell you that I probably was. She's 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:13.640 been to some of our our boot camp and in 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.000 classes this year, and I think everyone will tell you that. 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.680 I think I got softer because I was really worried 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.280 about listening to some of those episodes. I was really 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.799 worried about with the way that you know, some of 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.120 those students what they were going through. So it was 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.480 educational for me. At the same time, you got to 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.519 find that balance right of how far and how hard 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:35.760 can you push them? You know. I just love the show. 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:41.120 I miss it. I really do miss having you around. Andy. Yeah, 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.519 I guess just like bouncing off what dan Aj was saying. 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:50.320 I actually yesterday one of the victim advocates for some 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:53.000 of my courts, which is the person that you know 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.480 deals with the victims, and he was there. He was 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.400 the victim advocate in the case that went that Cassie 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:04.560 and I tried. He was like, hey, okay, so whatever 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.280 came of that the girl with the boom mic in 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.560 the room, Like where where is that? I was like, yeah, 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.119 you know, it's like it's a podcast. And he's like, oh, okay, 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:14.760 Like let me go. I'm gonna go listen to it. 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.880 And he was like, wait, I'm he was reading through it. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:19.560 He's like, I don't really get it. I was like, no, Like, 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.079 mock trial is like a whole universe. And he was like, 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.240 so there's more of you and I was like, yes, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.799 there's more of me. Yeah. I was like no, this 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:32.040 is it's like a subculture that people don't really know about. 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.440 So that was cool. Um and then today kind of 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.080 also what Teenager was saying, I was kind of starting 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.640 to think about everything that we went through and now 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.119 that I am on the other side of things that, um, 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.240 you know, I do go and like see how I 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:49.119 can help, or if you know the teams need someone 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.160 to scrimmage, or you know, if Teenager needs another pair 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.400 of hands on Saturday, like anything. I'm so happy because 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:58.240 the program gave me everything, gave me the skills to 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.640 have the job that I am now hopefully going to 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.000 have October six fingers crossed. I was thinking about that 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.680 and I was like, wow, we are. When I was 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:08.760 living it, it was a lot of stress. It was 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:11.400 a lot of anxiety. It was about how hard can 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.160 they push you and how far can you go until 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.920 you break? Don't break? Like if you break, it's done. 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:18.719 Like if you break, it's over. If you break, you 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:20.479 don't in advance if you break, like and it was 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:22.760 like the press. It felt like the pressure of the 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:26.880 whole world on you. In retrospect, I can only remember 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.240 the good things. I can only remember the feeling of 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.360 knocking Baylor out of NTC for like the first time 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:34.600 in like twenty years. I can only remember the feeling 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:39.000 of like winning, I can only remember the highs and 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.000 not to get to theoretical. But it's kind of akin 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.279 to my upbringing had very strict parents. I had a 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.920 very very strict upbringing. But when you're on the other 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.039 side of things, when you have reached success and you 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:52.200 have fulfilled every dream that you've had, you're like, wow, 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:54.160 you can only remember the good things, right, you can 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.400 only you don't remember all those times that you they 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.200 pushed you so hard that you know you're like, I 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.200 can't do it. Um, you only remember the good. So 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.400 to wrap it up, I'm so glad that at least 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.360 this last year was caught and putting these little time 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.520 capsules that when I miss it or when I remember 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:11.160 why I did it, or when I'm trying to think 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.600 of what to say to younger team members that are 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:16.960 now on the team, I just I can listen to 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.720 it and I'm like, that's why, like that feeling or 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:25.000 that bond or that support, Like that's why we were 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.840 fortunate enough to kind of follow one team. You had 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.719 multiple teams actually happening, so we took a risk by 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.280 you know, kind of going all in on on that 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.679 one team. I want you to maybe if you wouldn't 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:41.960 mind just sort of talk about what was it like 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.599 sort of following that particular group of students first, and 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.320 then second, maybe tell us a little bit about what 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:53.719 we missed, because obviously we did not capture the flavor 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.400 of the entire team. No, that's right. I mean, I 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:00.120 think if we go back to the first time that 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.840 you interviewed me at the beginning, I had told you 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.080 that our year would be decided by whether or not 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.200 we would finally win a tournament. Um that we have 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.520 this team. We had been building the program, not just 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.760 in numbers, but in difficulty. We were we wanted. We 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.560 were ratcheting it up a little bit more each year. 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.440 We were making it. We're trying to just build the 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.240 students up each year. And I thought that this was 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:26.800 the year. Last year was the year. It was my 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:29.960 fourth full year here, and I thought that it was 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.320 time for us to not just advance. They not just 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.159 get a couple of Best Advocate or Best direct or 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:41.719 something awards. It was time for us to actually make 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.320 it to those final rounds, and that I would determine 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.360 whether or not, in my mind, I would determine whether 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.880 or not we had a great year, whether or not 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.400 we want something that I thought it was time that 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.520 we want a tournament, and we had the advocates to 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.680 do it with. I really believe that we had a 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.679 huge year this year. In fact, it was our best 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:07.440 record ever in the history of our school's program. We 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.200 advanced in every tournament that we participated in except for 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.240 three uh and it was the most number of tournaments 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.760 that we had participated in. We want our a J. 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:22.280 That's the American Association of Justice. We want our regional tournament, 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.400 that's the There's the National Trial Competition. That's the one 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.880 that Andy and her teammates were in and your chronicled. 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.080 That's one of the two big ones of the year. 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.440 The other one, there's another one that's called a a 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:41.080 J Stacked, the Student Trial Act competition. You need points 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.120 in Stack and you need points at A a J 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.480 in order to make it to the Tournament of Champions. 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.160 This school has never gone to the Tournament of Champions 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:52.520 and that's our next goal. Our next goal is to 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:54.560 make it to the Tournament of Champions. I'm hoping that 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:56.880 we can do that in three to five years. But 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.120 we had an amazing year. Um I had asked you 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.520 to hey, hang out with this National Trial League, which 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.520 was a beast of a tournament. It was every other week, 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:10.880 another fact pattern, another round of competition every other week 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.000 from August all the way to November, and then it 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:19.160 culminated with a round robin national championship in January, and 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.320 we won that thing. I could not be more proud 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.720 of those kids. We want our a j A Regional, 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:29.360 our our Stack Regional, and two of those kids are 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.400 now States attorneys up in Denver. I mean, we really 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.640 had just an incredible year. You know, we're getting better, 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.000 We keep getting better, and now we're playing with some 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.960 of the top programs in the country. And as a 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.640 result of all of this work that we did this year, 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:49.000 there's a performance ranking system that's out there, and they 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.840 get graded based on the tournaments that you go to 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.920 and how you do at those tournaments. And before this year, 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.640 I think we were eighty five and this year we're 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.120 number thirteen and the country and that's your actual performance 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.760 against everybody else in the country. And I cannot be 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.600 more proud of these kids. But I'm really happy about 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:13.640 where our program is right now. Andy talk a little 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.040 bit about the sort of bond that you know, you've 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.200 formed with Cole and Jasmine and Mariella who was also 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.640 sort of part of the team, and the fact that 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:24.680 you know that you know all of you come from 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.680 somewhat similar backgrounds, and how did that play out over 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.080 the year. In the beginning, I think all of us 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.560 were tossed out of our comfort zones from where we 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.160 had been the year before. None of us had ever 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:42.040 worked together, and it was all about finding how we 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.679 work together, and like, how are we going to work together? 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:47.560 How are we going to figure out a way to 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:49.640 make this work and make this the a team. But 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.600 we didn't realize is that over the course of several 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.600 competitions and over the course of all the months and 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.880 all the hours that you spend together m mandatory and 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.400 non mandatory hours that you and together. I think that 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.120 y'all probably took it out of us about like why 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.360 we started to bond the way that we did and 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.600 all of the shared experiences that we had had. Yeah, 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.880 over the course of time, we just it became it 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.600 is a story of friendship, but it's like like not 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.400 just like normal friendship, Like I'm talking like Harry Potter friendship, 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.560 Like I would like they make me better, um, and 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.719 I think that we all made each other better, Like 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:27.440 I would have never become the advocate that I did 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.839 without Jasmine, without Cole and vice rusa. Um, I think 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.720 we see that now more clearly. Jasmine and I have 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.360 been helping out to scrimmage some of the right now 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.439 the Battle of the Experts team that's about to go 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.920 um here in this next coming week. And so it 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:44.680 just makes me all the time, I just like see 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.680 her now in this building and I'm just like, You're 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.440 so close, but so far I wish you were just 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.440 next to me all the time. Well, and you just 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:59.920 spent this past Sunday in Guadelupe County with your old team. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.640 It's scrimmaging against them for an entire day on both 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.320 sides of the case. Right, you're not even you're not 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.920 even a member of the team. You're like an aspiring, 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:12.200 hopeful new coach for us moving forward. And there you 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.800 were scrimmaging getting your old your old teammate Mariella ready 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:21.400 for Battle of Experts. That's pretty cool. A do. You 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.760 had mentioned You've been getting a lot of reactions from people, 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.880 and I wanted to know what some of those I 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.880 didn't knows were that you were hearing from people, whether 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:38.080 these were practicing attorneys or teachers or students. You know, 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.320 the episode, right, was that episode seven. It was such 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:46.720 a powerful, powerful, powerful episode. What was interesting to me 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:53.199 was that that episode has drawn so much feedback from folks. 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.640 Some of it was, you know, we didn't know you 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:03.600 know when I heard when Jasmine and Mariella, we're being 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:06.640 questioned about them being one and the same, and there's 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:11.800 no way that any human being couldn't confuse them because 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.600 it couldn't be more different, nor could they look more different. 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.760 Even when they were standing side by side, you could 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.920 heard Jasmine say to Mariella, I think they think that 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:29.680 we're cheating. Um that that that was caught so and 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:40.240 you are miss and seas yes, yes. The attorneys was well, 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:50.160 he thinks are the same, you're You could hear that 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.920 the pain was already happening, and it was such a 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:59.000 powerful moment, and so many people reacted by saying we're 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.560 sorry that you're students had to go through that because 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:07.400 of that powerful emotion that came from them not realizing 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.960 again that they were being recorded. Right, we got so 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:14.439 used to you being around that something good has come 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.680 from that right. This year on the president of NELEE, 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:22.160 the National Association of Legal Advocacy Educators, and my number 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.000 one priority is to address this issue of this of 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.480 it's unintentional. I mean, I don't I do not believe 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.040 for one second that the people that we're saying that 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:36.200 we're somehow intentionally trying to be whatever racist, discriminatory, or 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.760 whatever word anybody wants to use. I do not believe 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.040 that they meant it. That's the problem. Isn't that the problem? 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:48.120 They didn't mean to be But yet they were unintentionally 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:53.400 and oblivious the message they were sending. They were completely 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.000 oblivious to it. So how do we address that. We 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:00.040 have a committee and we are working on on a 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:05.600 policy that we could maybe best practices, something that every 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.160 tournament should be thinking about, not just when they're putting 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:12.000 teams together, but when they're inviting outsiders in to judge 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.880 their competition, to judge these students. I mean, at the 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.840 end of the day, let's remember, these are still young adults. 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.240 They really haven't gone out into the world. They're still 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.480 trying to find themselves, and they don't know how to 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.320 deal with these things. Look, I didn't know how to 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:30.440 deal with it. Right. I was caught off guard by it, 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.520 but now I'm more aware of and I think now 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:39.520 because of this, I'm also willing to not stand still, uh, 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.000 and I I want to try to do something about it. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.640 That's one of the powers of your podcast is that 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.760 I'm in a position where I can affect change, or 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.440 I should be able to affect change. And I'm hoping 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.080 that they're going to recommend to us a policy that 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:58.040 we can give to everyone that and hopefully it's something 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:02.320 that they'll abide and they'll share and they'll make even 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.800 if they pick up pieces of it. It's better than 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:09.880 where we are right now. Andy, did you get any 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.800 fallout or reaction to that episode we're talking about episode seven. 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.200 I think that just when people heard it, they just 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.040 were surprised that it happened and that it can that 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:25.200 it's still two and we're still dealing with it, and 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.120 that it's real, and that it's alive and well, and 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.800 that maybe people don't even realize that they're doing it, 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.280 which is the craziest part about all of it. Right, 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:37.480 just that some shock, like two different newspapers reached out 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.080 about some comments. Um, they really wanted to talk about 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.840 that episode, which um, I think it came out in 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:45.880 one of the articles, and it was just like an 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.480 important conversation to have as a community. I think it's 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.800 an important conversation out in San Antonio, just as it 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.840 is to have in New York and in every other state, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.760 but especially here. And it kind of pivoted to why 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.800 representation matters, and that's what got out of it. Just 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.440 to switch gears a little bit, you know, you seem 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:08.160 to have a pretty active summer. Uh, tell us where 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:12.440 you went and what was that all? I so, um, 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:17.080 I took the bar July. But then right after we 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:21.600 finished on the second day, we finished around five and 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.920 the next morning, UM, my family and I were at 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.560 the airport at like seven am the next morning, so 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:33.640 we jetted out of there. And so I was in 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.400 Italy for the first week and then I was in 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.920 Portugal for the second week. So we just kind of 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.160 took each week and went up and down each country 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:46.479 and ate nothing but pasta and really by all accounts 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.280 lived the dream um before coming back. So it was 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:54.000 amazing and A J I know you were overseas to 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.760 what what was that program and what were you doing 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.400 over there? Yeah? I was I mean. First, I went 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.960 back to Maryland, though, uh, and we packed up our house. 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.919 We moved out of it, waiting for our house here 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.320 in Texas to finally be built. So after we packed 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.359 up the house and moved it out, went to St Andrew, Scotland. 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.800 We showed up the day that the British opened, the 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.399 last day of the British Open. I played on the 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:24.760 course next to the old course. I didn't get to 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.080 play on the old course. I'm not good enough. But 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.560 I went out there for Baylor Law School holds a 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:37.280 summer advanced advocacy program. I was invited to help teach 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.960 that program, and I was in awe for those two 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.800 we I learned so much about advocacy. There were great 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.680 legendary instructors from all over the country. I felt like 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.919 I was a student in the room. I feel like 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.360 I came back a better a better advocate teacher than 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.119 before I left to go there. Scotland is a beautiful, 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.680 amazing country. My wife and a couple of students went 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:06.479 up to Inverness and we got to walk the fields 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.679 of Colada and the battlefields of Colote. And I was 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.520 invited to go back next year and I cannot wait 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:16.560 to do that after I go to Greece and Turkey. Yeah, 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.160 I'm getting older. I need to start traveling more, right, 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.720 so I need to get it in. So yeah, I know, 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:25.919 I had a wonderful had an incredible summer, and I 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.879 did that just before boot camp and then uh, you know, 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.120 we started another group of twenty four the day after 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.640 I got back. What does this year's team look like? 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:41.920 What you're feeling going in? Every team every year has 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:47.440 a certain rhythm to it, and the rhythm to Andy's 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:52.000 team was this just real drive. It's like get either 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:53.879 lead us or get out of the way. Sometimes they 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.959 were like pushing you right, you're going too slow for us. 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.800 Sometimes they were like whoa slow down. But most of 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.040 the time they were like you're going to slow you know. 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.040 They were like, get out of the way. We got it, 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.000 we gotta coach, let us go. I think the national 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.919 team that won the championship did Andy's team at NTC 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.159 was like that they finally got to the point that 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.720 we got this. Get out of the way. But I 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.359 felt when they walked in they kind of had that 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.760 chip on their shoulder when they walked in. So this 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.720 group is not like Andy screwp talented group, a little 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.280 bit more reserved, a little bit more what do I 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.760 do now? What do I do next? You know, you 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:36.880 love that right because they're saying what do I do next? 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.000 Then they're sponges and they're taking it in. But I 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.840 hope that in time we'll get them a little bit 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.439 more like the class of twenty two. I loved it 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:50.119 because they became their own voices and their own advocates. 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:52.800 This young lady that you have here in the podcast 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.000 room with me, you know, look at her. She just 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.159 turned into this amazing advocate. She's gonna be a great lawyer. 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:02.240 Someone's gonna be really lucky to have her representing them. 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:03.960 And that's what I hope all these kids turned out 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.959 to be. This class is going to actually actually has 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.360 more opportunity than Andy's class. They're going to competition out 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.240 in Atlanta. They're going to travel. Andy's team didn't get 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.720 to travel to Atlanta. We're gonna send the T two 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.320 teams out to arbitration, and we're sending a team out 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.600 to William Daniels and we have people already playing with 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:25.959 National Trial League. We'll see where we go. We have 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.439 we have a few that are really good, but they 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:30.760 have to stick it out. They have to do the 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:35.560 dirty work to get to the to get to the glory. Right, Andy, 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:40.680 are you over the whole ANTC experience? Um? I mean 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:44.119 that was tough to witness, definitely, and and you a 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.359 days two we got right up to the line. But 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.439 I actually listened to it this morning and it really 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:53.280 took me back, like to that day and to that 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.240 moment and to that thing, and I'm like, it's just 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.359 too soon, Like I can still feel it like it 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.280 was yesterday. And yeah, I don't know. I think we'll 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:04.160 be talking about that for a while. Like I think 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:06.680 Jasmine and I will probably be talking about that for 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.879 the rest of our lives. I can't help, right, but 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:11.920 being like, well, what if, like what if the cards 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.640 would have been different? Right? Because danger was totally right, 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.600 Like we there was a high and then we came 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:19.720 crashing down. We weren't ready. We I don't think we 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:22.320 were prepared to Like what happens when you take out Baylor, 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:24.600 Well that's not really going to happen until the end, 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:26.520 So you don't even need to prep for that. If 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:28.800 you take out Baylor, you win. We took out Baylor, 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:31.920 but there was another step right like, and we weren't 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.080 ready for that. Yeah, I think it's just something that 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:40.000 we'll be talking about forever. But tragic story. I had 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:42.919 to hear that episode twice because the first time I 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.040 heard the episode. Yeah, I don't mind saying it now, 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:50.080 but Lisa tried catching me. Um. I was in a 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:52.239 room by myself. I'm probably gonna do it again right 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:54.639 now just thinking about it. But I was in the 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.160 scoring room and I was so I was by myself 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:03.440 in this room, and I just felt that we failed 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:07.560 the students because we just kept telling him, you've got 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.440 to beat Baylor. We gotta get over this humble. Baylor's 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:12.399 the number you know, the number two team in the 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:15.399 country that has been for you know, as long as 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.160 I've been doing this, they've been number two or three, 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.840 and every road goes through Baylor. If we're going to 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:24.800 go somewhere, we need to go through Baylor. We were 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:28.000