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Speaker 1: Class Action is a production of I Heart Radio and

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Speaker 1: Sound Argument. So hello everyone, I'm Kevin Huffman and I'm Lisa,

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Speaker 1: and you're listening to a special bonus podcast with two

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Speaker 1: of our favorite people, A J. Belieta de Luna and

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Speaker 1: and this Kara from St. Mary's or formerly from St.

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Speaker 1: Mary's University. So I wanted to just kick it off

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Speaker 1: by asking the two of you just to reflect a

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Speaker 1: little bit. Either one reflect a little bit about the

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Speaker 1: series and you know what was your reaction? How did

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Speaker 1: it work for you? Well, let me just begin by saying,

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Speaker 1: Hi Kevin, Hi Lisa, and of course Hi Andy. I

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Speaker 1: have missed you so much this year. So my first

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Speaker 1: reflection is the obvious. You know, when you guys came

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Speaker 1: here and you brought the crew and the boom mix

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Speaker 1: and if you might remember orientation, the hunting down, the

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Speaker 1: steps in the crowd, cheering and h you know, that

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Speaker 1: was a kind of our first recording that we had.

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Speaker 1: And then you were everywhere and nowhere at the same time,

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Speaker 1: and we kind of forgot that you were there. But

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Speaker 1: now I remember that you're not there, and I actually

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Speaker 1: miss you. So thank you for having the bonus coverage

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Speaker 1: because that gives us a chance to to reconnect. For me,

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Speaker 1: you know, there were so many phone calls and emails

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Speaker 1: and the wow I didn't know from people. I was

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Speaker 1: shocked by that. I was shocked that we were trending

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Speaker 1: of Canada. It was just really humbling for me to

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Speaker 1: be a part of this, more so because you did

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Speaker 1: such an amazing job highlighting my students and what they

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Speaker 1: were going through. And I think I've told this to

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Speaker 1: the dean. I thought that I was pretty much in

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Speaker 1: touch what was going on with our students. I knew

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Speaker 1: that they were working hard. I knew what we were

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Speaker 1: putting them through. It was difficult. I knew it was

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Speaker 1: a good purpose for were it. I don't think I

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Speaker 1: really knew, you know, what I learned in the podcast,

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Speaker 1: because there was a lot more that was going on.

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Speaker 1: And he would tell you that I probably was. She's

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Speaker 1: been to some of our our boot camp and in

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Speaker 1: classes this year, and I think everyone will tell you that.

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Speaker 1: I think I got softer because I was really worried

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Speaker 1: about listening to some of those episodes. I was really

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Speaker 1: worried about with the way that you know, some of

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Speaker 1: those students what they were going through. So it was

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Speaker 1: educational for me. At the same time, you got to

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Speaker 1: find that balance right of how far and how hard

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Speaker 1: can you push them? You know. I just love the show.

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Speaker 1: I miss it. I really do miss having you around. Andy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess just like bouncing off what dan Aj was saying.

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Speaker 1: I actually yesterday one of the victim advocates for some

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Speaker 1: of my courts, which is the person that you know

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Speaker 1: deals with the victims, and he was there. He was

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Speaker 1: the victim advocate in the case that went that Cassie

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Speaker 1: and I tried. He was like, hey, okay, so whatever

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Speaker 1: came of that the girl with the boom mic in

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Speaker 1: the room, Like where where is that? I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's a podcast. And he's like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: Like let me go. I'm gonna go listen to it.

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Speaker 1: And he was like, wait, I'm he was reading through it.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I don't really get it. I was like, no, Like,

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Speaker 1: mock trial is like a whole universe. And he was like,

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Speaker 1: so there's more of you and I was like, yes,

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Speaker 1: there's more of me. Yeah. I was like no, this

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Speaker 1: is it's like a subculture that people don't really know about.

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Speaker 1: So that was cool. Um and then today kind of

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Speaker 1: also what Teenager was saying, I was kind of starting

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Speaker 1: to think about everything that we went through and now

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Speaker 1: that I am on the other side of things that, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I do go and like see how I

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Speaker 1: can help, or if you know the teams need someone

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Speaker 1: to scrimmage, or you know, if Teenager needs another pair

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Speaker 1: of hands on Saturday, like anything. I'm so happy because

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Speaker 1: the program gave me everything, gave me the skills to

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Speaker 1: have the job that I am now hopefully going to

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Speaker 1: have October six fingers crossed. I was thinking about that

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Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, we are. When I was

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Speaker 1: living it, it was a lot of stress. It was

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Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety. It was about how hard can

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Speaker 1: they push you and how far can you go until

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Speaker 1: you break? Don't break? Like if you break, it's done.

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Speaker 1: Like if you break, it's over. If you break, you

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Speaker 1: don't in advance if you break, like and it was

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Speaker 1: like the press. It felt like the pressure of the

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Speaker 1: whole world on you. In retrospect, I can only remember

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Speaker 1: the good things. I can only remember the feeling of

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Speaker 1: knocking Baylor out of NTC for like the first time

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Speaker 1: in like twenty years. I can only remember the feeling

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Speaker 1: of like winning, I can only remember the highs and

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Speaker 1: not to get to theoretical. But it's kind of akin

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Speaker 1: to my upbringing had very strict parents. I had a

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Speaker 1: very very strict upbringing. But when you're on the other

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Speaker 1: side of things, when you have reached success and you

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Speaker 1: have fulfilled every dream that you've had, you're like, wow,

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Speaker 1: you can only remember the good things, right, you can

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Speaker 1: only you don't remember all those times that you they

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Speaker 1: pushed you so hard that you know you're like, I

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Speaker 1: can't do it. Um, you only remember the good. So

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Speaker 1: to wrap it up, I'm so glad that at least

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Speaker 1: this last year was caught and putting these little time

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Speaker 1: capsules that when I miss it or when I remember

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Speaker 1: why I did it, or when I'm trying to think

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Speaker 1: of what to say to younger team members that are

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Speaker 1: now on the team, I just I can listen to

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Speaker 1: it and I'm like, that's why, like that feeling or

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Speaker 1: that bond or that support, Like that's why we were

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Speaker 1: fortunate enough to kind of follow one team. You had

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Speaker 1: multiple teams actually happening, so we took a risk by

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of going all in on on that

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Speaker 1: one team. I want you to maybe if you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: mind just sort of talk about what was it like

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Speaker 1: sort of following that particular group of students first, and

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Speaker 1: then second, maybe tell us a little bit about what

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Speaker 1: we missed, because obviously we did not capture the flavor

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Speaker 1: of the entire team. No, that's right. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think if we go back to the first time that

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Speaker 1: you interviewed me at the beginning, I had told you

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Speaker 1: that our year would be decided by whether or not

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Speaker 1: we would finally win a tournament. Um that we have

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Speaker 1: this team. We had been building the program, not just

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Speaker 1: in numbers, but in difficulty. We were we wanted. We

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Speaker 1: were ratcheting it up a little bit more each year.

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Speaker 1: We were making it. We're trying to just build the

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Speaker 1: students up each year. And I thought that this was

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Speaker 1: the year. Last year was the year. It was my

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Speaker 1: fourth full year here, and I thought that it was

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Speaker 1: time for us to not just advance. They not just

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Speaker 1: get a couple of Best Advocate or Best direct or

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Speaker 1: something awards. It was time for us to actually make

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Speaker 1: it to those final rounds, and that I would determine

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Speaker 1: whether or not, in my mind, I would determine whether

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Speaker 1: or not we had a great year, whether or not

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Speaker 1: we want something that I thought it was time that

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Speaker 1: we want a tournament, and we had the advocates to

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Speaker 1: do it with. I really believe that we had a

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Speaker 1: huge year this year. In fact, it was our best

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Speaker 1: record ever in the history of our school's program. We

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Speaker 1: advanced in every tournament that we participated in except for

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Speaker 1: three uh and it was the most number of tournaments

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Speaker 1: that we had participated in. We want our a J.

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Speaker 1: That's the American Association of Justice. We want our regional tournament,

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Speaker 1: that's the There's the National Trial Competition. That's the one

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Speaker 1: that Andy and her teammates were in and your chronicled.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the two big ones of the year.

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Speaker 1: The other one, there's another one that's called a a

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Speaker 1: J Stacked, the Student Trial Act competition. You need points

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Speaker 1: in Stack and you need points at A a J

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Speaker 1: in order to make it to the Tournament of Champions.

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Speaker 1: This school has never gone to the Tournament of Champions

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Speaker 1: and that's our next goal. Our next goal is to

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Speaker 1: make it to the Tournament of Champions. I'm hoping that

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Speaker 1: we can do that in three to five years. But

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Speaker 1: we had an amazing year. Um I had asked you

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Speaker 1: to hey, hang out with this National Trial League, which

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Speaker 1: was a beast of a tournament. It was every other week,

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Speaker 1: another fact pattern, another round of competition every other week

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Speaker 1: from August all the way to November, and then it

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Speaker 1: culminated with a round robin national championship in January, and

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Speaker 1: we won that thing. I could not be more proud

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Speaker 1: of those kids. We want our a j A Regional,

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Speaker 1: our our Stack Regional, and two of those kids are

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Speaker 1: now States attorneys up in Denver. I mean, we really

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Speaker 1: had just an incredible year. You know, we're getting better,

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Speaker 1: We keep getting better, and now we're playing with some

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Speaker 1: of the top programs in the country. And as a

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Speaker 1: result of all of this work that we did this year,

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Speaker 1: there's a performance ranking system that's out there, and they

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Speaker 1: get graded based on the tournaments that you go to

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Speaker 1: and how you do at those tournaments. And before this year,

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Speaker 1: I think we were eighty five and this year we're

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Speaker 1: number thirteen and the country and that's your actual performance

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Speaker 1: against everybody else in the country. And I cannot be

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Speaker 1: more proud of these kids. But I'm really happy about

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Speaker 1: where our program is right now. Andy talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the sort of bond that you know, you've

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Speaker 1: formed with Cole and Jasmine and Mariella who was also

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Speaker 1: sort of part of the team, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: you know that you know all of you come from

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Speaker 1: somewhat similar backgrounds, and how did that play out over

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Speaker 1: the year. In the beginning, I think all of us

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Speaker 1: were tossed out of our comfort zones from where we

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Speaker 1: had been the year before. None of us had ever

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Speaker 1: worked together, and it was all about finding how we

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Speaker 1: work together, and like, how are we going to work together?

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Speaker 1: How are we going to figure out a way to

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Speaker 1: make this work and make this the a team. But

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Speaker 1: we didn't realize is that over the course of several

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Speaker 1: competitions and over the course of all the months and

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Speaker 1: all the hours that you spend together m mandatory and

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Speaker 1: non mandatory hours that you and together. I think that

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Speaker 1: y'all probably took it out of us about like why

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Speaker 1: we started to bond the way that we did and

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Speaker 1: all of the shared experiences that we had had. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: over the course of time, we just it became it

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Speaker 1: is a story of friendship, but it's like like not

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Speaker 1: just like normal friendship, Like I'm talking like Harry Potter friendship,

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Speaker 1: Like I would like they make me better, um, and

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Speaker 1: I think that we all made each other better, Like

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Speaker 1: I would have never become the advocate that I did

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Speaker 1: without Jasmine, without Cole and vice rusa. Um, I think

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Speaker 1: we see that now more clearly. Jasmine and I have

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Speaker 1: been helping out to scrimmage some of the right now

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Speaker 1: the Battle of the Experts team that's about to go

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Speaker 1: um here in this next coming week. And so it

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Speaker 1: just makes me all the time, I just like see

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Speaker 1: her now in this building and I'm just like, You're

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Speaker 1: so close, but so far I wish you were just

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Speaker 1: next to me all the time. Well, and you just

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Speaker 1: spent this past Sunday in Guadelupe County with your old team.

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Speaker 1: It's scrimmaging against them for an entire day on both

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Speaker 1: sides of the case. Right, you're not even you're not

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Speaker 1: even a member of the team. You're like an aspiring,

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Speaker 1: hopeful new coach for us moving forward. And there you

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Speaker 1: were scrimmaging getting your old your old teammate Mariella ready

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Speaker 1: for Battle of Experts. That's pretty cool. A do. You

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Speaker 1: had mentioned You've been getting a lot of reactions from people,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to know what some of those I

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Speaker 1: didn't knows were that you were hearing from people, whether

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Speaker 1: these were practicing attorneys or teachers or students. You know,

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Speaker 1: the episode, right, was that episode seven. It was such

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Speaker 1: a powerful, powerful, powerful episode. What was interesting to me

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Speaker 1: was that that episode has drawn so much feedback from folks.

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Speaker 1: Some of it was, you know, we didn't know you

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Speaker 1: know when I heard when Jasmine and Mariella, we're being

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Speaker 1: questioned about them being one and the same, and there's

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Speaker 1: no way that any human being couldn't confuse them because

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Speaker 1: it couldn't be more different, nor could they look more different.

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Speaker 1: Even when they were standing side by side, you could

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Speaker 1: heard Jasmine say to Mariella, I think they think that

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Speaker 1: we're cheating. Um that that that was caught so and

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Speaker 1: you are miss and seas yes, yes. The attorneys was well,

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Speaker 1: he thinks are the same, you're You could hear that

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Speaker 1: the pain was already happening, and it was such a

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Speaker 1: powerful moment, and so many people reacted by saying we're

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Speaker 1: sorry that you're students had to go through that because

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Speaker 1: of that powerful emotion that came from them not realizing

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Speaker 1: again that they were being recorded. Right, we got so

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Speaker 1: used to you being around that something good has come

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Speaker 1: from that right. This year on the president of NELEE,

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Speaker 1: the National Association of Legal Advocacy Educators, and my number

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Speaker 1: one priority is to address this issue of this of

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Speaker 1: it's unintentional. I mean, I don't I do not believe

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Speaker 1: for one second that the people that we're saying that

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Speaker 1: we're somehow intentionally trying to be whatever racist, discriminatory, or

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Speaker 1: whatever word anybody wants to use. I do not believe

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Speaker 1: that they meant it. That's the problem. Isn't that the problem?

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Speaker 1: They didn't mean to be But yet they were unintentionally

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Speaker 1: and oblivious the message they were sending. They were completely

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Speaker 1: oblivious to it. So how do we address that. We

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Speaker 1: have a committee and we are working on on a

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Speaker 1: policy that we could maybe best practices, something that every

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Speaker 1: tournament should be thinking about, not just when they're putting

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Speaker 1: teams together, but when they're inviting outsiders in to judge

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Speaker 1: their competition, to judge these students. I mean, at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, let's remember, these are still young adults.

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Speaker 1: They really haven't gone out into the world. They're still

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Speaker 1: trying to find themselves, and they don't know how to

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Speaker 1: deal with these things. Look, I didn't know how to

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Speaker 1: deal with it. Right. I was caught off guard by it,

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Speaker 1: but now I'm more aware of and I think now

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Speaker 1: because of this, I'm also willing to not stand still, uh,

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Speaker 1: and I I want to try to do something about it.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the powers of your podcast is that

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Speaker 1: I'm in a position where I can affect change, or

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Speaker 1: I should be able to affect change. And I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: that they're going to recommend to us a policy that

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Speaker 1: we can give to everyone that and hopefully it's something

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Speaker 1: that they'll abide and they'll share and they'll make even

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Speaker 1: if they pick up pieces of it. It's better than

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Speaker 1: where we are right now. Andy, did you get any

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Speaker 1: fallout or reaction to that episode we're talking about episode seven.

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Speaker 1: I think that just when people heard it, they just

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Speaker 1: were surprised that it happened and that it can that

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Speaker 1: it's still two and we're still dealing with it, and

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Speaker 1: that it's real, and that it's alive and well, and

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Speaker 1: that maybe people don't even realize that they're doing it,

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Speaker 1: which is the craziest part about all of it. Right,

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Speaker 1: just that some shock, like two different newspapers reached out

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Speaker 1: about some comments. Um, they really wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: that episode, which um, I think it came out in

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Speaker 1: one of the articles, and it was just like an

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Speaker 1: important conversation to have as a community. I think it's

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Speaker 1: an important conversation out in San Antonio, just as it

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Speaker 1: is to have in New York and in every other state,

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Speaker 1: but especially here. And it kind of pivoted to why

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Speaker 1: representation matters, and that's what got out of it. Just

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Speaker 1: to switch gears a little bit, you know, you seem

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Speaker 1: to have a pretty active summer. Uh, tell us where

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Speaker 1: you went and what was that all? I so, um,

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Speaker 1: I took the bar July. But then right after we

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Speaker 1: finished on the second day, we finished around five and

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Speaker 1: the next morning, UM, my family and I were at

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Speaker 1: the airport at like seven am the next morning, so

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Speaker 1: we jetted out of there. And so I was in

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Speaker 1: Italy for the first week and then I was in

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Speaker 1: Portugal for the second week. So we just kind of

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Speaker 1: took each week and went up and down each country

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Speaker 1: and ate nothing but pasta and really by all accounts

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Speaker 1: lived the dream um before coming back. So it was

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Speaker 1: amazing and A J I know you were overseas to

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Speaker 1: what what was that program and what were you doing

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Speaker 1: over there? Yeah? I was I mean. First, I went

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Speaker 1: back to Maryland, though, uh, and we packed up our house.

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Speaker 1: We moved out of it, waiting for our house here

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Speaker 1: in Texas to finally be built. So after we packed

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Speaker 1: up the house and moved it out, went to St Andrew, Scotland.

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Speaker 1: We showed up the day that the British opened, the

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Speaker 1: last day of the British Open. I played on the

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Speaker 1: course next to the old course. I didn't get to

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Speaker 1: play on the old course. I'm not good enough. But

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Speaker 1: I went out there for Baylor Law School holds a

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Speaker 1: summer advanced advocacy program. I was invited to help teach

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Speaker 1: that program, and I was in awe for those two

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Speaker 1: we I learned so much about advocacy. There were great

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Speaker 1: legendary instructors from all over the country. I felt like

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Speaker 1: I was a student in the room. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I came back a better a better advocate teacher than

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Speaker 1: before I left to go there. Scotland is a beautiful,

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Speaker 1: amazing country. My wife and a couple of students went

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Speaker 1: up to Inverness and we got to walk the fields

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Speaker 1: of Colada and the battlefields of Colote. And I was

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Speaker 1: invited to go back next year and I cannot wait

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Speaker 1: to do that after I go to Greece and Turkey. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting older. I need to start traveling more, right,

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Speaker 1: so I need to get it in. So yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: I had a wonderful had an incredible summer, and I

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Speaker 1: did that just before boot camp and then uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: we started another group of twenty four the day after

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Speaker 1: I got back. What does this year's team look like?

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Speaker 1: What you're feeling going in? Every team every year has

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Speaker 1: a certain rhythm to it, and the rhythm to Andy's

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Speaker 1: team was this just real drive. It's like get either

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Speaker 1: lead us or get out of the way. Sometimes they

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Speaker 1: were like pushing you right, you're going too slow for us.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they were like whoa slow down. But most of

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Speaker 1: the time they were like you're going to slow you know.

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Speaker 1: They were like, get out of the way. We got it,

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Speaker 1: we gotta coach, let us go. I think the national

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Speaker 1: team that won the championship did Andy's team at NTC

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Speaker 1: was like that they finally got to the point that

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Speaker 1: we got this. Get out of the way. But I

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Speaker 1: felt when they walked in they kind of had that

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Speaker 1: chip on their shoulder when they walked in. So this

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Speaker 1: group is not like Andy screwp talented group, a little

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Speaker 1: bit more reserved, a little bit more what do I

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Speaker 1: do now? What do I do next? You know, you

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Speaker 1: love that right because they're saying what do I do next?

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Speaker 1: Then they're sponges and they're taking it in. But I

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Speaker 1: hope that in time we'll get them a little bit

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Speaker 1: more like the class of twenty two. I loved it

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Speaker 1: because they became their own voices and their own advocates.

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Speaker 1: This young lady that you have here in the podcast

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Speaker 1: room with me, you know, look at her. She just

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Speaker 1: turned into this amazing advocate. She's gonna be a great lawyer.

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Speaker 1: Someone's gonna be really lucky to have her representing them.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I hope all these kids turned out

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Speaker 1: to be. This class is going to actually actually has

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Speaker 1: more opportunity than Andy's class. They're going to competition out

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta. They're going to travel. Andy's team didn't get

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Speaker 1: to travel to Atlanta. We're gonna send the T two

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Speaker 1: teams out to arbitration, and we're sending a team out

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Speaker 1: to William Daniels and we have people already playing with

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Speaker 1: National Trial League. We'll see where we go. We have

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Speaker 1: we have a few that are really good, but they

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Speaker 1: have to stick it out. They have to do the

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Speaker 1: dirty work to get to the to get to the glory. Right, Andy,

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Speaker 1: are you over the whole ANTC experience? Um? I mean

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Speaker 1: that was tough to witness, definitely, and and you a

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Speaker 1: days two we got right up to the line. But

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Speaker 1: I actually listened to it this morning and it really

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Speaker 1: took me back, like to that day and to that

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Speaker 1: moment and to that thing, and I'm like, it's just

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Speaker 1: too soon, Like I can still feel it like it

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Speaker 1: was yesterday. And yeah, I don't know. I think we'll

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Speaker 1: be talking about that for a while. Like I think

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Speaker 1: Jasmine and I will probably be talking about that for

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Speaker 1: the rest of our lives. I can't help, right, but

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Speaker 1: being like, well, what if, like what if the cards

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Speaker 1: would have been different? Right? Because danger was totally right,

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Speaker 1: Like we there was a high and then we came

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Speaker 1: crashing down. We weren't ready. We I don't think we

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Speaker 1: were prepared to Like what happens when you take out Baylor,

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Speaker 1: Well that's not really going to happen until the end,

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Speaker 1: So you don't even need to prep for that. If

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Speaker 1: you take out Baylor, you win. We took out Baylor,

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Speaker 1: but there was another step right like, and we weren't

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Speaker 1: ready for that. Yeah, I think it's just something that

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Speaker 1: we'll be talking about forever. But tragic story. I had

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Speaker 1: to hear that episode twice because the first time I

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Speaker 1: heard the episode. Yeah, I don't mind saying it now,

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Speaker 1: but Lisa tried catching me. Um. I was in a

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Speaker 1: room by myself. I'm probably gonna do it again right

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Speaker 1: now just thinking about it. But I was in the

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Speaker 1: scoring room and I was so I was by myself

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Speaker 1: in this room, and I just felt that we failed

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Speaker 1: the students because we just kept telling him, you've got

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Speaker 1: to beat Baylor. We gotta get over this humble. Baylor's

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Speaker 1: the number you know, the number two team in the

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Speaker 1: country that has been for you know, as long as

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Speaker 1: I've been doing this, they've been number two or three,

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Speaker 1: and every road goes through Baylor. If we're going to

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Speaker 1: go somewhere, we need to go through Baylor. We were

401
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Speaker 1: lucky enough to beat Baylor and not in the outrounds,

402
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Speaker 1: but we've had never beaten Baylor in the outrounds, and

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Speaker 1: here you go, the first time ever we beat this

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Speaker 1: incredible program. I remember when the announcement was made I

405
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Speaker 1: was watching them in the three courtroom. Team on Texas

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Speaker 1: will go prosecution against Team one S three St. Mary's

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Speaker 1: congratulations to all of you, for those of you who

408
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Speaker 1: I couldn't say what I was thinking, and what I

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Speaker 1: was thinking was we beat Baylor and that's all that

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Speaker 1: they're thinking about, and they're not thinking about the next round.

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Speaker 1: And I just felt like, you know, everyone got kind

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Speaker 1: of caught up in that. All the coaches did, and

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Speaker 1: we really did, you know, let them down a bit,

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Speaker 1: because a good coaching decision would have been to get

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Speaker 1: them out of that room, get them to a safe place,

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Speaker 1: and get them refocus. Instead, what they did is they

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Speaker 1: went into a room and they they weren't ready for

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Speaker 1: the round. They just weren't. I don't know if it

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Speaker 1: would have honestly helped because the turnaround, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know what would have happened. But

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Speaker 1: what I do know is that I know that the

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Speaker 1: side that we went on, we weren't prepared to go

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Speaker 1: that side again, Like it was like you needed more

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Speaker 1: of a second. But as soon as they announced that

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Speaker 1: they were like, okay, the round starts in twenty minutes,

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Speaker 1: you could I don't know, like, I don't maybe right,

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Speaker 1: like if they would have taken us out to another

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Speaker 1: room and they would have done a thing, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it would have overcome the side in

430
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: the amount of time that you had to recuperate. You're you're, you're,

431
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right on that, but we should have done that.

432
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: So when Lisa came into the room, she had asked me,

433
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: what are you thinking? And I just I just I

434
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: literally had to stomp away from her. I mean, I

435
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: just broke out in tears and I couldn't even speak. Um,

436
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: I was just I was overcome by by that moment

437
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: as well that we had gotten so far, and yet

438
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: I felt like we let them down. I really do.

439
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: I don't think the students than anything wrong. Well, and

440
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: and we think we let you all down, right, No,

441
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: not at all. You were you were pretty incredible, and

442
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: but there were a couple of things that we missed

443
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: that if we were paying attention, we could have better

444
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: protected the team in that final round. And I think

445
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: they could add a better outcome, but everyone was a

446
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: little overcome by it, and uh, and we failed to

447
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: protect them. And that's our job as coaches is to

448
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: protect our teams. So that's the wood, right, But and

449
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 1: I do think that if that team made it to Nationals,

450
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: they would have been a real force to contend with.

451
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: I did want to ask you, Andy, you know, now

452
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: that you've graduated, you've taken the bar. First of all,

453
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: do you feel like you've passed the bar? What a

454
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: terrible question to ask someone, Kevin, don't ask people that. Wow,

455
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: what is when you take a test? Don't you kind

456
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: of know whether you've aced the test? And I don't know?

457
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: You knock on wood, jeez, take that back. Okay, Well,

458
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: now that you've taken the bar and you potentially contest

459
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: and you've had a offer, where do you think your

460
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: career will go? Well? I think it will probably start

461
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: off of UM as a misdemeanor prosecutor here in Barry County, UM.

462
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: And then after that, I don't know. I guess wherever

463
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 1: the trials take me, Wherever I feel like it can

464
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: make the most impact, Wherever my skills can be used

465
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: for their maximum potential, Wherever I can feel like I'm

466
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: making a difference, where I feel like I'm doing the

467
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 1: right thing. Um, I'm sure eventually I'll want to go private,

468
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: whether that's the criminal defense or civil whatever way that

469
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: leans UM. But maybe not. Maybe I'll be a prosecutor

470
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: of my BOFE. Maybe I'll run for office. Who knows. UM.

471
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: You know, I think it takes a tremendous amount of

472
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: courage to get up there and do what you do.

473
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: I think it's really difficult to even if it's in

474
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: a you know, quote mock environment, to you know, study

475
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: up on the case, you know as much as you

476
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: know about the case, go through all the procedures, face

477
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: a judge, facing another team, another school, you're just out

478
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: there on an island. You know. Having now seen it

479
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: in action, I have great respect for for what you

480
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: all do, and you know, for what lawyers do. It

481
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: sort of did validate I think, and Lisa feels the

482
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: same validate. Our initial idea behind this is to understand

483
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: what it takes and and it's it's at a very

484
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: high level, and it's frightening. I mean, it is absolutely frightening.

485
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: So to see your team go as far as you

486
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: did and to be a part of that and to

487
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: know how tough it is, Uh, that was really wonderful. Yeah,

488
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: I appreciate you understanding the fear that I go through

489
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: and get in front of those students stuff every every week,

490
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: week after week. Thank you. And I just have to

491
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: say it's great to see the two of you again,

492
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: and we again can never thank you enough for all

493
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: the time that you've given us and the you know,

494
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 1: thoughts that you share and to spend a little bit

495
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: of time with your life was really iportant to us.

496
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: So it was great for us. I'm glad at Cans

497
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: to meet both of you and your crew, and I

498
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: think it's important to say thank you for what you

499
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: did for St. Mary's and our students. I mean, I

500
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: think a lot of people have heard your work. It

501
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: was just done so incredibly beautiful. Thank you for for

502
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: all your hard work and telling our little story and

503
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: our little neckcor role. Yeah, I mean it really it

504
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: made us feel seen. I really had no idea. I

505
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: remember first day of boot camp, like when I first

506
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: talked to you all, like, no idea why you would

507
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: be interested in this school, Like in the middle of nowhere,

508
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: full of all these like you know, little brown kids,

509
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: like okay, we're allowed, we're trying to channel that here.

510
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: Why why does it matter? Why do we matter? And

511
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: it was just awesome. It was wonderful, so thank you

512
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: so much for that. And as a quick note, after

513
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: this recording, the team received their our results and all

514
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: three Andy, Jasmine and Cole passed the bar and are

515
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: now practicing attorneys. Last Action is a production of I

516
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Sound Argument, created, produced, and edited by

517
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: Kevin Huffman and Lisa Gray. Executive producers are Taylor Shakogne

518
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: and Katrina Norvell. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,

519
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

520
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: you get your favorite shows.