1 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A tiny baby is dead. 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: Not by natural causes, She's dead because mommy laces her 3 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: sippy cup with fentanyl. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 4 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Listen to this. How 5 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: did the fentanel get in the cup? I mean we 6 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: have some idea. UM, I'm comfortable we can charge somebody, 7 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: and I've authorized that. You are hearing the Allegheny County 8 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: District Attorney Stevens A. Paula talking about evil mommy feeding 9 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: her baby fentanyl in her sippy cup. The baby is dead. 10 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: With me, Dr Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, Joseph Scott Morgan, 11 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: forensics professor, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate, 12 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: Me Now in Connecticut lawyer, criminal defense attorney Mickey Sherman, 13 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: and with me now Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter 14 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: Larry Mayor, Larry, you know what, thanks mom, fentanel in 15 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: the sippy cup. The baby is dead, Larry, that's true. Um. 16 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: The police arrived at the mother's apartment to find the 17 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: child unresponsive, basically unconscious, not breathing. Her lips had turned blue, 18 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: and the officers performed CPR on the child, waiting for 19 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: an ambulance to arrive. As they did, the little girl 20 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: spit up a red liquid of some kind. They also 21 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: noted that what appeared to be blood was in her mouth. 22 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: It was later determined through autopsy and toxicology results that 23 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: Charlotte Napor Callie, who was seventeen months old, had ingested 24 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: a deadly dose of the opioid painkiller fentinyl. The drug 25 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: was also found inside the sippy cup that her mother 26 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: admits she had given the little girl. And then the mother, 27 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: whose name is Jania Pratt and she is twenty three 28 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: years old, clammed up. Police and prosecutors say she has 29 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: not been particularly helpful as police tried to put together 30 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: exactly what happened that led up to the death of 31 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: her little girl. We were talking about the death of 32 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: a tiny infant. After mommy laces her sippy cup with 33 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,959 Speaker 1: the deadly sentinel. Just got morgan with me. Just got 34 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: explained what is fentinel. Fentinel is very similar h in 35 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: its usage relative to things like heroin. UH. It's uh 36 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: many times has been used as an analgesic, which means 37 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: that knocks paying down and Nancy, can I give you 38 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: one little factory to put this in in in frame 39 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: for us? Do you know what happened in August of 40 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and eighteen relative to fentnyl. It was the 41 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: first time that finnel was actually used in the United 42 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: States as a component of lethal injection. It was utilized 43 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: in Nebraska to take a guy's life in prison as 44 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: part of a death sentence. That's how powerful this drug is. 45 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: I mean, Mickey Shrman, veteran defense attorney. Fentanyl is sold 46 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: on the black market that, along with oxycodone and other 47 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: drugs that are prescribed by doctors, are now sold illegally, 48 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: like heroin and crack cocaine. It's that powerful. And this 49 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: mom is putting fentneyl in the baby sippy cap, as 50 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: Michael Corleone said, and god father too. One thing we've 51 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: learned is that anybody can kill anybody else. And she 52 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: didn't use a fentanyl so she could done something else. 53 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: It's the intent to kill that enable someone just to 54 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: do everything else to the wind and do what they 55 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: want to do in order to take this person's life. 56 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: I started to give you grief about quoting car Corleone 57 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: as your answer, but actually making your absolutely correct. Dr 58 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: Daniel Bober forensic psychiatrists. You know, poison or lacing food 59 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: or drinks with you know, highly powered medicines is typically 60 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: a female crime. Statistically, Yes, that's true, Nancy. And fentonel In, 61 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: which is a drug that's a hundred times stronger than morphing, 62 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: essentially makes the brain forget to breathe, and so it's hot, 63 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: it's it's very deadly. And most of the deaths in 64 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: the opioid epidemic I've actually been due to heroin being 65 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: spiked with fentinyl and not the heroin themselves. So fentyl 66 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: is a very very lethal drug. You know, I will 67 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: never forget, which I banned my husband from the medicine 68 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: draft this. The children were having all sorts of like 69 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: um allergies and rashes and drippy noses and blah blah 70 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: when they were little. You remember, Mickey, how premature they were. 71 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: You were with me way back when when the children 72 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: were born, and I gave them some bena drill, okay, 73 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: and then I took them to the only set of 74 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: bucket swings I could find, and we were out super 75 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: early in the mornings, like seven am. I've been up 76 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: with them all night and I was swinging them. I 77 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: looked at them and they were both slumped over like 78 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: sacks of potatoes. And I called Davis, said, David, this 79 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: is where they fell asleep in the end the swing 80 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: and went probably because they gave him Ben a drill. 81 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: I nearly did a backflip because I had given them 82 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: been a drill and he was under strict orders to 83 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: always tell me if he medicated the children or was 84 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: going to He's you know, he's all about o TC, 85 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: but I'm all about no drugs at all over the counter. Dry. 86 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: You know this is going to be the defense. It's 87 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: going to be it was an accident. But hold hold on, 88 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: if it were an accident. If it were an accident, 89 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: why didn't Mommy say it was an accident and cooperate 90 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: with police. Listen to the district attorney. We tried to 91 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: interview her, she was she didn't give us any information. Um, 92 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: it was kind of I hate to characterize her attitude, 93 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: except that she was interviewed and she was not helpful. 94 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: And it's her it's her child. Is that true? Larry 95 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: May her Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Mommy was uncooperative. Yes, 96 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: at the time of the child's death, she was not 97 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: very helpful with police. However, there was someone else was helpful, 98 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: and that was her boyfriend who had been in the 99 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: apartment earlier in the day. He had taken care of 100 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: the little girl during the morning and early afternoon hours 101 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: and then he left, and based on the time of 102 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: her death, which was early in the evening, prosecutors and 103 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: police determined that the only person who could have given 104 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: her the drug was the mother after the boyfriend had left. 105 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: The purfect. Okay, there's a second line of defense, Mickey, sureman. 106 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: First of all, she's gonna say it was an accident. 107 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: First of all, she's gonna say somebody else did it 108 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: and try to point the finger at the boyfriend. Then 109 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: she's going to say, okay, he did it, But if 110 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: he didn't do it, then it was an accident. That's 111 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: going to be the defense. I see it right now, Mickey, 112 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: Especially if she doesn't take the stands, it'll be easier 113 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: for the defense attorney to kind of both of the 114 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: scenarios out there as you supposed to having to under 115 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: stand and getting pubbled by rus. Take a listen to 116 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: what the district attorney says, you put Fentonel in play 117 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: and somebody dies. I want to see you go to jail. 118 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: What the sentencing enhancement will do is put somebody in 119 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: a penitentiary. We are talking about a mom now arrested 120 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: in Fentinel La Sippy Cup case feeding her baby Sentinel. 121 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: The baby is dead and I want justice now. We 122 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: traveled to Indiana. Did a man, a twenty three year 123 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: old guy Marshall s Snyder the third a k a. 124 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: Marshall Snyder, did he actually crush painkillers, very powerful painkillers, 125 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: and sprinkle them into breast milk for a baby girl? 126 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: You know what I want to know with me? Ashley Wilcott, 127 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: Atlanta judge, lawyer and founder of child Crime watch dot com. 128 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, 129 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: renowned Atlanta defense attorney, Raymond Judah Chay, Karen Stark, new 130 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: York psychologist joining us from Manhattan, and Pamela fur Crime 131 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: Online dot com investigative reporter. It's hard for me to 132 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: look at this guy. He looks like a actually looks 133 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: kind of like a spoiled bratt college kid to me. 134 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: But he's actually twenty three year old Marshall S. Snyder 135 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: the third and apparently he is suspected of crushing powerful 136 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: painkillers and putting it in a baby's breast milk. What 137 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: to start at the beginning, Pam, Well, you have this 138 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: young girl eighteen years old who is living with her 139 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: mother and her brother decided to move his fiance and 140 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: they're eleven week old baby into that house for whatever reason, 141 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: and the eighteen year old Sarah Rodriguez Miranda, was very jealous. 142 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: She did not want them staying in that house, and 143 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: so she concocted some crazy plan to crush up some 144 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: pills and put them in the breast milk of that 145 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: eleven month old baby. She wanted to kill that baby 146 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: that she wanted them gone out of the house, and 147 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: so she started talking to her boyfriend about that and 148 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: it was very very open about what her plans were, 149 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: and that's how the case started. You know, Pamela, for 150 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: when you explain the motive behind this, it makes the 151 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: entire thing even more absurd. Take a listen to this service. 152 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: Conditions determined aidity of your arrested and contention Simply, Miranda 153 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: ran term as you are sah Rrigez Miranda here luci 154 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: for and he charges understands. Yes, okay. What you're hearing 155 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: is a lot of lawyer talk called extradition. She really simple. 156 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: What happens in this case, according to prosecutors, is that 157 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: a woman is angry another woman moves into the home 158 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: with her when we cold baby girl, and she plots revenge. 159 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: It's crazy, so she and her lover, Marshall Snyder, decided 160 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: to poison the baby dead by putting powerful painkillers into 161 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: a bottle of breast milk meant for the baby. Now, 162 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: I can't say that they're crazy in the legal sense 163 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: because then they flee to Michigan so they won't be 164 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: caught for this. So they've got the cunning and the 165 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: wherewithal and the uh plan, the machinations of the plan 166 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: to get away knowing they've done this bad thing. They're 167 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: caught now, they're being extradited. Raise un extradition is really simple. 168 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: They're caught in Michigan. They're not determining in court whether 169 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: they're guilty, whether it's probable cause nothing. All they have 170 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: to do is say are you Marshall Snyder, and are 171 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: you the Marshall Snyder in this warrant. That's all they've 172 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: got to decide, and then they're send back home to 173 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: face charge. Well, that's right, and the judge will normally say, uh, 174 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: Sarah and madam defendant, I am not telling you that 175 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: we think you're guilty of anything. Uh. This is not 176 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: a condition. This is a tradition warrant from whatever state. 177 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: Do you wish to have a full blown extradition hearing 178 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: and challenge it, or do you wish to waive that? 179 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: And the Ford Ltd. Will be here in the morning 180 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: to drive you back to whatever state at a hundred 181 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: and fifty miles with the blue lights on so that 182 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: you can defend yourself and face whatever charges out of 183 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 1: the state has. So it's it's just for a procedural transfer. However, 184 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: there is a a some advantage to the defend in 185 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: fighting the extradition if you have good counsel or the resources, 186 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: because you can make the opposing state that wants to 187 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: the state that wants to bring you back has to 188 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: at least flesh out the basis of the warrant just 189 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: a little bit, and it may give you a little insight. 190 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: Most of the time folks waive ex formal extradition hearings 191 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: and get transferred at immediately. And partly that's because they're 192 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: on the run. They don't have counsel, of their families 193 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: not there, and they're you know, they're in some state 194 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 1: prison across the country and they just want to get 195 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: back to where they where they think safe ground will be. 196 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: You know, in this case, Joseph's got Morgan and their wisdom. 197 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: The two got a full bottle of exctern and crusted 198 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: up to feed the baby. What effect would that have 199 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: had on the baby? It's that that we know of. 200 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what else they've put in there. Just 201 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: so that folks at home know what this consists of. 202 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: We're talking about a seta menaphon, which is like tyl 203 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 1: and all. We're talking aspirin and we're talking caffeine. A 204 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: seta menaphon. What would have happened with this child? That 205 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: would have literally shut that sent the kid into what 206 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: we refer to as hepatic failure. In other words, it 207 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: would have shut this child's liver down. For for aspirin, 208 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of contraindications for this, particularly when you, uh, 209 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: you administered into a very tiny baby Nancy, we're talking 210 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: about a very powerful over the counter analgesic to knock 211 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: down pain. Uh. Too much aspirin can literally lead a 212 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: child or put a child into a state of coma. 213 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: Back to Pamela for Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. 214 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: So how do they manage to track the two down 215 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: in Michigan? They had text messages that they had exchanged 216 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: between each other, Marshall Snyder and the young eighteen year old. 217 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: So the mother had seen the messages. So as they 218 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: were looking for them, they found his family in Fort Wayne, Indiana. 219 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: That's where they fled to, I'm sorry, in Michigan. They 220 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: went from Fort Wayne, Indiana to Michigan. That's where his 221 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: family lives, and that's how they were able to track 222 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: them down. Um, and these text message exchanges, I'm telling you, Nancy, 223 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: it's just very disturbing. Well, you're right, the text messages 224 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: sent by Sarah to Marshall Snyder are damning. I'm quoting quote, 225 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna crush up some of these pills since she 226 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: decided they can stay longer and kill their baby. That 227 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: that's not all the documents that we have obtained out 228 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: of Alan County circuit in superior courts in Indiana explain 229 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: how the woman Sarah Rodriguez Miranda, actually researched how much 230 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: over the counter pain medication it would take to kill someone, 231 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: then crushed multiple pain killers and put the powder in 232 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: the Battle of Breast Milk. We also know she sends 233 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: her boyfriend Marshall Snyder a picture of a mortar and 234 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: puzzle set containing the white concoction. Now that also was 235 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: according to court documents, she says, I put the stuff 236 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: in a mad bottle in the fridge. In another text, 237 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: she writes, yeah, I thought it was funny that I 238 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: don't have an ounce of guilt. It seems as if 239 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: in the early morning hours, Sarah Miranda's mother, who wisely 240 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: monitors her daughter's phone and social media messages, sees a 241 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: text exchanged between her daughter and Marshall Snyder, the boyfriend. 242 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: The mother took pictures of the messages, then went in 243 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: the kitchen and open the refrigerator door, and there she 244 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: finds two baby bottles. One was darker in color, with 245 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: a greenish ring and a residue that had settled at 246 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: the bottom. She put both the bottles into a grocery bag, 247 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: put them both in a zip lock bag, and she 248 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: took the grand baby wisely, along with the child monitor, 249 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: to a nearby emergency room to immediately have the baby 250 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: check for poisoning. It's disturbing, very disturbing. You have this 251 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: eighteen year old girl who is jealous of this eleven 252 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: month old baby, saying things like, yeah, you know, I 253 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: don't even feel any guilt at all. She took a 254 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: picture of where she had crushed up the pills and 255 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: put it in this text message to her boyfriend and 256 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: said I had to feel no guilt at all. She 257 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: then sent another text message saying, oh my god, the 258 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: bottles aren't in the refrigerator. I'm so excited. Things like 259 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: this in these text messages, and that's eventually what led 260 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: to them the police finding them in Michigan. Yeah, you're right, 261 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: she texts, O n G. I forgot to tell you 262 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: the bottle is gone. She was so happy those bottles 263 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: have been taken out of the refrigerator, as she Willcott, 264 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: founder of child crime watch dot com. One of the 265 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: text messages states, I hope she dies. Oh yeah. She 266 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: does not hide her intentions in these text messages at all. 267 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: The good news for the prosecution is certainly again, it 268 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: shows the premeditation. She she had no qualms killing this child. 269 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: Here's what's interesting to me, Nancy. And most of these cases, 270 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: it is someone's own child that they are killing. In 271 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: this particular case, it is it is her niece. It 272 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: is not even her own child. And there's this new comic. 273 00:17:58,119 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard about it. It's all 274 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: about the special relationship between aunts or aunt's or aunties 275 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: and their nephew or niece. And so there's this this 276 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: whole philosophy and statistics around what a special relationship that is. 277 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: And here you have an aunt who honestly, honestly you 278 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: you wouldn't believe the text of the extents of which 279 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: she goes to say, Hey, I'm happy to do this, 280 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: I'm proud to do this. I'm gonna kill their baby. 281 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: Then the girl starts questioning why the baby, the infant 282 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: is still alive? Quote why didn't that baby die? Dude? 283 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: That's dumb. Now we wait as just as unfolds for 284 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: Marshall Snyder the third the baby lived, But now what 285 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,479 Speaker 1: will happen to him and his so called girlfriend? An 286 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: Ohio boy who runs away after witnessing his father's murder. Miracle, 287 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: after months and months being gone, this boy has been 288 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: found alive. I Meancy Grace. This his crime stories. Thank 289 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: you for being with us. The Ohio Boy vanishes over 290 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: a year ago as he witnesses his father being gunned down. 291 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: I'm talking about Jacob Caldwell. Joining me from the Dayton 292 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: Daily News. Richard Wilson, former federal prosecutor, Francie Haicks, psychologist 293 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: and lawyer, host of investigation discoveries, hit show Fatal Vows. 294 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell, Jason Oceans, renowned New York attorney and 295 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: Mark class victim's advocate, founder of Class Kids. Straight out 296 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: to Richard Wilson. First, Richard, I want you to take 297 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: a listen to Robert Caldwell's one call just days before 298 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: his own murder. Yeah, I got a guy over here 299 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: onund he's get trying to learn me and who is 300 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: the who's the guy? Earlier? Boyfriend all to go back 301 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: to the James Company, will depute me there. Okay, So 302 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call my wife and you're hearing the voice 303 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: of Robert Calwell desperately calling nine one one, just days 304 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: before his own murder. Straight out, to Richard Wilson with 305 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: a Dayton Daily News. Richard, I think we better take 306 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: this from the beginning. How did this whole thing start, 307 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: Richard Wilson. As you hear in that nine one one call, 308 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: Robert Caldwell called nine one one reporting that his ultimate 309 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: accused killer, Sterling Roberts, was stalking him and in fact 310 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: pulled a gun on him. He believed his life was 311 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: in danger at that point, and that was actually two 312 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: weeks prior to his own death. Two weeks prior to 313 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: his own death. Richard Wilson described to me the death 314 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 1: of the victim. Victim was out with his three sons. 315 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: They were in a public place in a community called 316 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: Riverside here near Dayton, and I think is around six 317 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: o'clock that evening. It was still very light out. Robert 318 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: was approached by the gunman and shot and killed in 319 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: front of his three sons outside near a office building. 320 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: One of his sons, after it happened, ran to it 321 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: near by restaurant to report what happened. You know, I'm 322 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: just thinking about the horrific trauma a child would go 323 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 1: through standing there in the driveway. I believe you said, Richard, 324 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: with your father as he is gunned down in cold blood. 325 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: Still wake up at night thinking about my dad being 326 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: gone and my dad passed away as and I'm an 327 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: adult and I'm still upset about it. To Dr Brian Russell, 328 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: seeing your father gunned down right in front of your eyes, 329 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: No wonder the boy went running away. It has been 330 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: gone for a year hiding. Yeah, most of us can't 331 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: even imagine what that would be like and what that 332 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: would do to us, seeing that, even as adults, as 333 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: you said, so, a man at that age of your life, 334 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: being fifteen is a it's a tough age when everything's 335 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: going right. Six people have now been indicted for this 336 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 1: twisted murder plot, including an ex wife. Well, explain to 337 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: me Richard Wilson from the Dayton Daily News. The wife 338 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: is already an ex Well, why does she care if 339 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: her ex husband lives or dies? Explained to me. What's 340 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: my understanding? That they were involved in a heated custody 341 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: battle over the children um which was settled in July, 342 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: that's a month prior to Robert being shot and killed. 343 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: The judge ultimately decided to grant custody to Robert and 344 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: his new wife. Uh so it's our understanding that that 345 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: appears to be a factor in the motivation of his guys. 346 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 1: We were talking about the death of the dad and 347 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: the disappearance of the boy. Jacob Caldwell. Take a listen 348 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: to what Robert Caldwell's brother Tyler has to say. They 349 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: were in love when they were married, and you know, 350 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: he cared about her, and you know, he tried to 351 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: start a family and do the right thing. My brother 352 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: called me one day and was upset. Uh, and he said, 353 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: I finally found it, and uh, you know, I didn't. 354 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: I didn't know what he was talking about. And he said, 355 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: you know, check your email. It's it's it's pictures of 356 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: Tommy's escort website um that she created. He said that 357 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: he was done. I mean, this was kind of the 358 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: last straw with Tony and and that you know, he 359 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: had to get out of there and move on with 360 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: his life. It sounds like their relationship was a nightmare. 361 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: He's referring to his wife, Tawny Roberts. Take a listen 362 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: to what his mom said. My understanding is he was 363 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: walking out of the counseling with the kids with him 364 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: and this guy. We came out of somewhere and he 365 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: shot my son many many, many, many times. All Bobby 366 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: cared about really in life was being a good father 367 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: and a good husband to his wife Candice. That was 368 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: his whole purpose in life. Is a beautiful person. He 369 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: didn't deserve that at all. Is just taking his kids 370 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: to counseling. He was trying to help them. You're hearing 371 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: his mom speak, and it goes to show Francy Haiggs, 372 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor, that there is no love like a 373 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: mother's love, even when the child, the son is grown, 374 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: and you hear the pain in her voice talking about 375 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: the death of her son, now a father himself, trying 376 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: to start a new life. Francy, it's a terrible case, Nancy. 377 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: I mean, all I can think is the horrific irony 378 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,239 Speaker 1: of him taking his children to therapy so that they 379 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: can deal with all the upset of these custody battles 380 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: and the divorce, and then having them have to witness 381 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: their lives and their parents being own apart. And one 382 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: of the other things that bothers me, Nancy about this 383 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: case I've read recently is that when they found this boy, Jacob, 384 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: this eyewitness to the murder of his father, they tossed 385 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 1: him in juvenile detention. I don't understand it. I don't 386 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: understand it either. I think it's an incredible miracle that 387 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: he was found. Mark Class, this is your expertise. This 388 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 1: little boy had been missing for over a year after 389 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: witnessing his father againned down Well Nancy a little context. 390 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: First of all, everything I understand about Robert Caldwell is 391 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: that he was an excellent man and a superior father, 392 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: and that everything that he did, the extended custody battles, 393 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: the counseling, even the remarriage, was really about ensuring the 394 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 1: safety of this children, that his children had an opportunity 395 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: to grow up and and have safe lives. And unfortunately 396 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: he got with a thuggish family full of psychopaths. Because 397 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: all of the people, with the exception of the boyfriend, 398 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: all of the people that have been indicted in this 399 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: case are from the mother's family, and apparently the ex wife, 400 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: the mother, Tawny, who had a softcore porn site, was 401 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: calling all of the shots in this case. She was 402 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: directing absolutely everybody. And the home where they found little 403 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: Jacob was a home that was associated with friends of 404 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: the ex mother's family. So these people are evil beyond compare, 405 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: and they took a wonderful guy out and have obviously 406 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: traumatized these three young men, and particularly I think Jacob, 407 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: given the fact that he was living in proximity of 408 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: the family of this of his father's killer for that 409 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: entire time. You know, it's amazing to me. Richard Wilson 410 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: joining me with the Dayton Daily News. The whole family 411 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: is indicted in his murder. How did the whole family 412 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: agree to be part of our murder plot? Richard Wilson, Well, 413 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: I don't know that those that are indicted, the ones 414 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: at least that are charged with aiding and abetting, whether 415 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: they knew the entire scope of what was about to happen. 416 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 1: So I think it's very possible that they were assisting 417 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: and helping in ways that they, you know, didn't know 418 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: exactly why. Well, it's hard for me to believe that 419 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: they had no idea what was going on. And the 420 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: coincidence of the timing of the murder, because Robert had 421 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: just been awarded custody and then two weeks later he's dead. 422 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: He gets awarded custody, then he calls nine on one 423 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: and names the people he thinks are trying to kill him. 424 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: They're following him around town. Calls nine one one. Then 425 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: still nothing is done to protect him, and he's dead 426 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: and the little boy runs away. In the Last Day's miracle, 427 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 1: the little boy has been found. For some reason, they 428 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: throw him in juvenile detention. I wonder if this was 429 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: the icing on the cake that Robert call Will had 430 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: finally found a new love in his life. Listen, I 431 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: remember like it was yesterday when he got from custody. 432 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: Was a very exciting day. Uh. We had just bought 433 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: a new house so all of the all the kids 434 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: could have their own rooms and everything. They were hearing 435 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: the voice of Robert's new wife, Candice called, well, now, 436 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: I want to figure out how the boy has stayed 437 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: missing in hiding for over a year. Mark class, what 438 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: do you understand about it? He wasn't being held against 439 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: his will, for one thing. He had the ability to 440 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: come and go as he pleased, and he didn't seem 441 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: particularly traumatized when the authorities finally found him. Um. But 442 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: then on the other hand, the authorities were doggedly looking 443 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: for him. There were uh, there was a reward that 444 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: was being offered. There were billboards that were up they 445 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: were following credible leads, and in fact, the credible lead 446 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: because of the reward, is what led to his recovery. 447 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: He was obviously coercedance we uh. He was obviously coerced 448 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: and manipulated in ways that were far beyond his control. 449 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: In this scenario, I'm amazed the boy is even still alive. 450 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: How did it unfold? Take a listen? And yesterday afternoon 451 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: received a call from an individual thought that the information 452 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: a possible location where Jacob could be takes the stair 453 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: and the FBI agent met with that individual. UM. They 454 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: were a little hesitant to come forward in the sense 455 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: that they didn't want their day out there, so we 456 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: assured him that that that would be a problem. UM 457 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: got some information from hers seemed very credible. There had 458 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: some uh. Some of the details that was given to 459 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: us were pretty specific, so we started looking into hollowly 460 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: where this location is UM, the jurisdiction and possibly getting 461 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: a warrant. Got got additional information a little later in 462 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: the evening that possibly he was going to be moved UM, 463 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: so we we bumped up our our timeline quite a bit. 464 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: UM got that, got a warrant signed late last evening 465 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: and just before midnight, we served a warrant at a 466 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: location in Miami Township. Four adults were inside and we 467 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,239 Speaker 1: found Jacob in the basement. Uh, not that he's hiding him. 468 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: I don't think he was necessarily hiding at that moment 469 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: from us. UM that appeared to be where his primary 470 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: area of sleeping was. That is how it all unfolded. 471 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: According to police, they received a call from a female 472 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: who said she had information about where they could find 473 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: the missing boy. Four individuals taken into custody. Listen, we're 474 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: able to get him. We had four adults. M Jacob 475 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: is currently over at the Green County Juvenile Attention Center 476 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: right now. He's in under an unruly warrant US through 477 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: City of Beaver Creek. But we're we're something to get 478 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: our charges through through the township where he actually was 479 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: missing from. To Richard Wilson with the Dayton Daily News, 480 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: why is he in juvenile detention? The lawyer represending his 481 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: legal custodian uh tells us that, you know, the court 482 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: is looking out for his welfare and wants to get 483 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: counseling for him. So he had this previous unruly charged 484 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: that was a warrant issued prior to him running away 485 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: this time. Uh And that is is the pretense of 486 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: why he's being held there at this point. But I 487 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: think the overall concern is just his welfare. As you 488 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: can imagine, he's an eye witness to a murder. He's 489 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: certainly been through a lot over the last year or so, 490 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: and he's very important to um the prosecutor's case. Uh 491 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: So I think they, you know, want to make sure 492 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: he's he's okay and he's accounted for. I mean, think 493 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: about it, Mark Class, He's witnessed to murder. If that mother, 494 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: his mother would gun down the father of her children 495 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: and enlist her family to help her, there's six people 496 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: indiced it for that murder, what would she do to him? 497 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: I mean, even from behind bars, he is a state's 498 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: chief witness about who ordered his father. Well, he's one 499 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: of three witnesses, certainly, And I don't yeah, I don't. 500 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: I don't imagine that the reason that she targeted him 501 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: um for kidnapping, because ultimately I think that's probably what 502 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: occurred there, although he did seen to go voluntarily, But 503 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: I don't think the fact that she targeted him for 504 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: that was to keep him from testifying. I think that 505 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: you probably had other deeper, more twisted motivations involved in 506 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: certain things that I can't tam. We know to you, 507 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: Richard Wilson, with a dating dealing news. We also know 508 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: that there's going to be I predict a treasure trove 509 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: cyber evidence because from what I can understand, the ex wife, 510 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: the one that had the porn side, Tawny Roberts, her 511 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: boyfriend Sterling Roberts, allegedly cyber stalked Robert Caldwell, the murder victim, 512 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: via his cell phone, with the assistance of that lovely lady, 513 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: the ex wife, Tawny Caldwell. So there should be uh 514 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: trail a mile wide through text messages, phone calls, and 515 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: so forth. Some of that evidence is actually coming to 516 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: light through the lawsuit, UH that has been filed by 517 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: Robert's widow, particularly related to that nine one one call 518 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: and the incident that happened two weeks prior to his murder, 519 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: you know. To Francie Haig's former federal prosecutor, I want 520 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: to follow up on what Richard Wilson is telling us. Apparently, UH, 521 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: the wife, the ex Tuning Colwell, also accused of destroying 522 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: contents and data of a cell phone. Hello, A lot 523 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: of that can still be retrieved, Francy, it can be. 524 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: Forensic tools are pretty amazing, and I suspect that they've 525 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,719 Speaker 1: got their forensic analysts out there looking through everyone's computer 526 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: and everybody's phone in order to find evidence. And I think, Nancy, 527 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: one of the significant things in this case that you 528 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: heard in that last clip you played from the police 529 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: was they were saying that they got a warn and 530 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: went into this house because they had information the boy 531 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: quote was about to be moved. Not that the child 532 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: was going to run away again, but was about to 533 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: be moved. There's no doubt in my mind based on 534 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: that evidence if it's true. But the child was being held, 535 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: and I think there's really only one reason for it. 536 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 1: Perhaps of the three eyewitnesses, he had the best vantage point, 537 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,879 Speaker 1: or he's the one who knows more information and that's 538 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: why he was targeted for the kidnapping and his own mother, 539 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: his own family. It looks like it kept him out 540 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: of school for a year, He's had no contact with 541 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: his friends. This was a child who'd been isolated and 542 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: probably brainwashed. The other people charged our chance Pete Deacon 543 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: Christopher Roberts, James Harmon, and Shandra Harmon. Who are these people? 544 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: These other people charged Richard Wilson in addition to the 545 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: ex wife Tawny Roberts and her boyfriend Sterling. Who are 546 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 1: these other people? Sports? I understand they are simply associates 547 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: of the mother Towny Caldwell. Um, you know, friends in associates. 548 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: I don't know that there are any familial ties there, 549 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: you know. I first thought her family was roped in 550 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: on this, but it looks to me like it's more associates, 551 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: not necessarily family. According to the FBI, Calledwell and Shaun 552 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: dr Harmon conspired to intimidate and threaten witnesses. So it's 553 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,760 Speaker 1: like these people think they're living in the wild wild West, 554 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: according to the FBI, threatening witnesses. While the one boy 555 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: has gone missing hiding out, that boy, little Jacob Caldwell, 556 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: has been found. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend.