1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome. It is Verdict with Center, Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: with you, and I want to give a very special 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: welcome to so many of you that are joining this 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: podcast for the very first time. As many of you 5 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: that are listening to podcast may have heard, we are 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: now a syndicated radio show on the weekend's nationwide, so 7 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: you can listen to show wherever you have a lot 8 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: of local news talk stations. So we're really excited to 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: bring in new listeners with this first show since we 10 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: went live this weekend with that syndicated show Center. It 11 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: was really fun. By the way, we even had some 12 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: friends that sent you some warm wishes, which included Sean Handy, 13 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: and that was really cool as well, welcoming you as 14 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: the first sitting senator and actually national politician to ever 15 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 1: have a syndicated radio show while also in office. It's 16 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: pretty awesome. 17 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 2: Well, we launched the podcast as a said syndicated radio 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: show this weekend. We started on eighty four stations nationwide 19 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: eighty four, and we're anticipating a lot more stations picking 20 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: it up. We're going to be every weekend all across 21 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: the country, and it'll be our Friday podcast that will 22 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: air on Saturdays and Sundays throughout the weekend, and it's 23 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: a great opportunity just to take listeners behind the scenes, 24 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: behind the curtain. What's going on today. What we're talking 25 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: about is we're talking about two battles. One a battle 26 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: in the United States Senate, the second a battle in 27 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: the US Supreme Court. All of these battles number one 28 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 2: in the Senate, the Democrat senators have decided they have 29 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 2: found their issue to campaign on in twenty twenty six. 30 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: Their issue is illegals. They want more of them, and 31 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: especially MS thirteen gang members. They're all in. It's an 32 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: amazing decision. Chris van Holland, Democrat from Maryland, flew down 33 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: Delle Salvador to play foot seat with a gang member. 34 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 3: We're going to talk about that. 35 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: We're also going to talk about a big decision at 36 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court halting I hope temporarily deportations of Venezuelans. 37 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: You had a vigorous descent from Justice Eleide and Justice Thomas. 38 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: All of that on today's pod. 39 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: Before we get to that, though, I want to talk 40 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: to you about how Israel is still under attack. Missile 41 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: fire has resumed from Israel's enemies and terrasts are seeking 42 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: utter death and destruction here in America. We can't imagine 43 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: what it's like to live in constant fear like this, 44 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: and that is the reality for many in Israel. That 45 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: is where you can come in and help those. You 46 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: can join me and show the people of Israel that 47 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: not only do you want to help protect them in 48 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: this time of attack and uncertainty, but that you stand 49 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: with them as well. And one of the best ways 50 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: to do this is by giving to the International Fellowship 51 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: of Christians and Jews. Your gift today will help provide 52 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: security essentials like bomb shelters, flat jackets, and bulletproof vests. Also, 53 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: there is a major need for armored security vehicles and 54 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: armored ambulances. There's no better time to give than right now, 55 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: out during the Passover holiday, when we celebrate Israel's historic 56 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: deliverance and birth as a nation. So give a special 57 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: Passover gift today and help protect the people of Israel. 58 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: The number eight to eight four eight eight IFCJ. That's 59 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: eight eight eight four eight eight four three two five, 60 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: Or you can go online and give securely at support 61 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: IFCJ dot org. That's one word support IFCJ dot org 62 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: or eight A eight for eight eight IFCJ. All right, Senator, 63 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: So let's start with this big first issue. I still 64 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: can't get my head around the fact that this is 65 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: clearly the political issue, as you mentioned, a moment ago 66 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: Democrats believe is like a big moment for them and 67 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: an issue to run on in less than two years 68 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: in the midterms. And that's not to defend Americans, but 69 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: to defend a terrorist organization and their members. 70 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: Well, it really is astonishing. This individual that they're focusing on, 71 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 2: who's been deported to El Salvador. He is an illegal alien. 72 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: No one disputes that he came illegally. He had an 73 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 2: order of deportation against him, the court ordered him deported. 74 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 2: Nobody disputes that either. And twice he's been adjudicated to 75 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: be a member of MS thirteen. As President Trump tweeted out, 76 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: he has tattoos on his fist, on his fingers that 77 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: correspond with MS thirteen gang tattoos. It is really a 78 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 2: remarkable thing that the Democrats look at this situation and say, 79 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: this is the issue that is going to move the 80 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: American people to our side. I don't know anybody who 81 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: thinks at least, I don't know anyone normal and rational 82 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: who thinks what we need is more gang members and 83 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: illegal aliens. And in fact, look, I'm gonna read to 84 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: you a text. I'm not going to identify who it is, 85 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: but but but it's a buddy of mine who's a Democrat, 86 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: who who's a Democrat. He's on the left, and and 87 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: and he just just texted me and said, your colleague, 88 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 2: Maryland Senator van Holland flew to El Salvador to see Garcia. 89 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 2: My wife's friends are very upset. The senators cares more 90 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 2: about one non citizen than many innocent American hostages. 91 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 3: Your thoughts and and and to be. 92 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: Clear, this this is a friend of mine who is 93 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 2: a Democrat, who is solidly left of center, and and 94 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 2: and his wife is looking at this going what the 95 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 2: hell are these people doing? That says something And I'll 96 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 2: tell you something else that that's interesting. This is not 97 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: just a one off. The Democrats have decided this is 98 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 2: our issue. So Sunday, Chris van Holland, senator from from Maryland, 99 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 2: who flew down Del Salvador, he did the full Ginsburg. Now, 100 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: now what is the let's see, man, how good is 101 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: your recollection? Do you remember what the full Ginsburg is? 102 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: See? These are the moments for people that are just 103 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: listening for the first time that make me laugh because 104 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: these are the I got you co host questions, get 105 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: used to them. They happen about once per episode, And 106 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: this is where I say. 107 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: Ginsburg is okay, the full Ginsburg and it's it's a thing. 108 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: It was named for William Ginsburg, who was Monica Lewinsky's 109 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: lawyer during during the scandal against Bill Clinton, and he 110 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 2: went on all major Sunday morning talk shows. He went 111 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 2: on this week on the ABC, Face the Nation, Meet 112 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: the Press, and State of. 113 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 3: The Union on CNN. 114 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 2: So doing all five is called the full Ginsburgh because 115 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: he he's the first one anyone remembers doing it. 116 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 3: And it's actually interesting. I went and googled it just 117 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 3: a minute. 118 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: Ago and Wikipedia oddly has a list of everyone who's 119 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: done the full Ginsburg, and it turns out quite quite 120 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: a lot of people have done it. So it started 121 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: off with William gins Burg. Then it was Congressman Rick 122 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 2: Lazio when he was running for Senate. Then it was 123 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: Dick Cheney, then it was John Edwards when he was 124 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: running for President. Then it was Michael Chertoff when he 125 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: was Secretary of Homeland Security. Then it was Hillary Clinton. 126 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 2: Then it was Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, the Secretary Janet Napolitano. 127 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: Then it was doctor Richard Besser of the CDC. That 128 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: it was Bill Clinton. Then it was George W. 129 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: Bush. 130 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: Then it was Rogie Shaw. Then it was Lieutenant General 131 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 2: Ken Keene. That it was Michelle Bachman. Then it was 132 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: Jack Lou. Then it was Susan Rice. That it was 133 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 2: Timothy the Geitner. Then it was Jeb Bush. Then it 134 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: was Marco Rubio. That it was Daniel Pfeiffer. Then it 135 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: was John Kerrey. That it was Dennis McDonough. Then it 136 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: was Jack Lou. That it was John Kerrey. Then it 137 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,239 Speaker 2: was Dennis McDonough again he was White House Chief of Staff. 138 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: Then it was Robert Sunwalt, a board member of the 139 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 2: National Transportation Safety Board. Then it was Paul Ryan. Then 140 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 2: it was Marco Rubio. And you know what I discovered. 141 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 2: And the next person to make the list actually was me, 142 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: which I didn't remember, but I'm looking at this Wikipedia article. 143 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: And when I ran for president twenty sixteen, a parent 144 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: I did it February twenty eighth of twenty sixteen, which 145 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: I didn't remember. 146 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: But I'm one of the ones who's done full Ginsburg. 147 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: So just to be clear, I got asked if I 148 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: knew what the Ginsburg was. I didn't know the answer, 149 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: but you were one of the people on the Ginsburg listen, 150 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: and you forgot it. So we're just full circling that right. 151 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: Well, and then the last two who've done it have 152 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: been John Kirby, who was a White House spokesman for 153 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 2: Joe Biden, and then on Sunday Chris van Holland. And 154 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: so I make this point. Look, someone does the full Ginsburg. 155 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 2: They go on every Sunday show when they really really 156 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 2: want to draw attention to something, when they want to 157 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: highlight it, when they want to say, hey, this matters, 158 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: and listen, the Democrat Party as a whole, they are 159 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 2: all in on this strategy. The media as a whole, 160 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 2: they're all in on this strategy. And I got to say, 161 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: that's just I think that has a real danger of 162 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: of backfiring on him. 163 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: So let's play part of what he had to say 164 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: on this visit with a guy that's not only a 165 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: not because I say so, multiple courts have said so. 166 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: Government agencies have confirmed it as well. Is an MS 167 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: thirteen gang member which has been declared to terrorist organization. 168 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: And this is part of what he had to say 169 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: on ABC this week. Take a listen. 170 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 4: As you know, the President himself has been attacking you 171 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 4: by pointing out some of the aspects of Abrego Garcia's record, 172 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 4: including the fact that his wife had an order of 173 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 4: protection against him in twenty twenty one and alleged some 174 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 4: pretty serious allegations of abuse, and even that that he 175 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 4: had detained her. Are you concerned about your defense of somebody. 176 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 4: Obviously everybody in this country, even those undocumented immigrants, have rights. 177 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 4: But are you concerned about standing so forcefully with somebody 178 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 4: that has, you know, at least a questionable record. 179 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 5: I am not defending the man. 180 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 6: I'm defending the rights of this man to do process, 181 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 6: and the Trump administration has admitted in court that he 182 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 6: was wrongfully detained and wrongfully deported. 183 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 3: My mission, of. 184 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 6: My purpose is to make sure that we uphold the 185 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 6: rule of law, because if we take it away from him, 186 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 6: we do jeopardize it for everybody else. And I do 187 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,599 Speaker 6: want to point out, Carl, Yes, the Trump administration is 188 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 6: trying to change the story. They're trying to detract attention. 189 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 6: Here's where they should put their facts. They should put 190 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 6: it before the court. They should put up or shut 191 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 6: up in court. 192 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing that he tries to spin it 193 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: this way. It's also amazing that ABC tries to kind 194 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: of downplay the fact that this is a guy that 195 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: attacked his wife. She had a protective order. Oh and 196 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: by the way, on top of these an MS thirteen 197 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: gang member, and you're trying to act like this is 198 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: the guy we need to go protect and save. 199 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 2: And let me point out what Ben Holland says there 200 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 2: is is just wrong. So there was an order of 201 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 2: deportation against this guy. Court had ruled he should be deported. 202 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 2: It is true. The Trump administration has admitted they made 203 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 2: a mistake. And the mistake they made is that there 204 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 2: was a court order prohibiting his deportation to l Salvador. 205 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 3: It was an older order. 206 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: They didn't see it, and so they missed it. And 207 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: so the state of the law was the federal government 208 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 2: could deport him to literally any country on planet Earth 209 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 2: except El Salvador. 210 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 3: But because of that order, you had a court order. 211 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: Saying don't send him to El Salvador, and they did 212 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: so because they didn't see that order until after the fact. 213 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 2: Now that also means if he came back, they could 214 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 2: literally deport him ten seconds later to another country. Because listen, 215 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 2: if you are here illegally, and in particular, if you 216 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: are a member of a terrorist organization, you don't have 217 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 2: a right to remain. You know, Jonathan Carl calls him 218 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: an undocumented alien. No, the term under the statute is 219 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 2: illegal alien, and they are an illegal alien. It's not 220 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 2: that they're just missing some piece of paper. It's that 221 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: they came here illegally, and the administration has the power 222 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 2: to remove him. I want you to listen to this 223 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 2: clip on another part of the full Ginsburg when he's 224 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 2: on CNN and Dana Bash questioned him, give a listen 225 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 2: to this. 226 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 6: Now. 227 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 5: President Trump says that some of Abrego Garcia's tattoos signify 228 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 5: that he's a member of MS thirteen. In twenty nineteen, 229 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 5: police alleged a confidential informant claimed that Abrego Garcia was 230 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 5: an active MS thirteen member. His wife and his attorney 231 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 5: deny that, of course, can you say with absolute certainty 232 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 5: that he is not, nor has he ever been a 233 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 5: member of the MS thirteen gang. And did you ask 234 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 5: him point blank? 235 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 6: Well, Dana, what Donald Trump is trying to do here 236 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 6: is change the subject. The subject at hand is that 237 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 6: he and his administration are define a court order to 238 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 6: give people to give a Brego Garcia his due process rights. 239 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 6: They are trying to litigate on social media what they 240 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 6: should be doing in the courts. They need to put 241 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 6: up or shut up in the courts. Let me tell you. 242 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 6: I decided to write this down so I could be 243 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 6: absolutely accurate as to what Federal District Courts Judge Zennis 244 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 6: said about these allegations by the Trump administration. Quote, no 245 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 6: evidence linking a Brego Garcia to MS thirteen or any 246 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 6: terrorist activity has been presented to the court. That's where 247 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 6: to litigate this. It's been litigated in many other places. 248 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 6: So I'm not going to get into the details because 249 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 6: the whole purpose of our court system is for them 250 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 6: to adjudicate these things, not for Donald Trump to go 251 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 6: off on social media. 252 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right, they have not. There hasn't been a 253 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 5: court hearing for them to put forward evidence in the 254 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 5: first place, which is your whole point. But since you 255 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 5: were the one person to have met with him. This 256 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 5: is a thing you say on social media. It's what 257 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 5: we hear from Donald Trump and Republicans every day, all 258 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 5: day long. You didn't ask him. 259 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 6: I didn't ask him that because I know what his 260 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 6: answer is. What he told me was he was sad 261 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 6: and traumatized that he was being in prison because he 262 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 6: has committed no crimes. And that goes to the heart 263 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 6: of this issue, because he's being denied his due process rights. 264 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 6: And Donald Trump is trying to change the subject. And 265 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 6: you know, when people start asking about asking that question, 266 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 6: in my view, they're falling into the president's trap, because 267 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 6: what the president wants to do is talk about that 268 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 6: as if we can't all fight gang violence, which I've 269 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 6: been doing for much longer than Donald Trump. Right. His 270 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 6: argument is you can't fight that and at the same 271 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 6: time uphold people's constitutional rights. That's a very dangerous view. 272 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 6: And if we deny the constitutional rights of this one man, 273 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 6: it threatens the constitutional rights of everybody in the mind America. 274 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 2: So there's several things that are remarkable in what Van 275 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: Hollen is doing. Number One, he keeps saying Trump is 276 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 2: trying to change the subject. Now mind you, that's exactly 277 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 2: what Van Holland is doing. I mean, it really is 278 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 2: Freudian projection. He gets asked about the restraining order and 279 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 2: the evidence that this illegal alien committed domestic violence and 280 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: was a wife beater. He said nope, nope, never mind, 281 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 2: never mind. And he gets asked, okay, well, is the 282 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: guy in MS thirteen gang member? 283 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 3: Yes? No, did you ask him? 284 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: And he says no, no, no Trump Trump Trump range 285 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: man bad Trump Trump Trump, And remarkably, Dana Bash goes 286 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: back again and says, well, yeah, but you sat down 287 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 2: with him. 288 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 3: Did you ask him? 289 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: And Van Holland says no, because it turns out so 290 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 2: in his view, it is quote changing the subject to 291 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 2: discuss the facts of who it is that was deported. 292 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 2: I think that is the subject, who it was that 293 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: was deported. And by the way, one of the things 294 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: Van Holland says is he has committed no crimes. That 295 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: would be factually incorrect. Crossing illegally into the United States 296 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 2: is a crime. The Democrats want everyone to do that, 297 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: and even if you're a gang member. At look at 298 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 2: the very same time that the Democrats are embracing this 299 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: admitted illegal alien and person who's been found by two 300 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 2: courts to be affiliated with MS thirteen. While they're defending 301 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: him as a quote Maryland man, we had simultaneously the 302 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 2: mom of Rachel Morin, who is also a Maryland resident, 303 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 2: and yet the senator from Maryland cannot bother to be 304 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 2: worried about Rachel Morin, a woman who was raped and murdered, 305 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: a mom of five kids, raped and murdered by an 306 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: illegal immigrant. That the Democrats released, their priorities are, I 307 00:16:58,600 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 2: think abundantly. 308 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: And by the way, this pr stunt by Van Hollen. 309 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: If you want to know who had to pay for it, well, 310 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: here's his answer on that. 311 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 6: Who did pay for this trip? This was an officially 312 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 6: cleared congressional trips, Yes, like every other trip. 313 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: Yes, like every other trip. So that just you know, yeah, 314 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: we waste your money all the time. We waste your 315 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: money on this trip too. Why would that be out 316 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 1: of the ordinary. 317 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 2: It is standard practice for members of both parties to 318 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 2: travel abroad, and it's part of doing the job responsibility. 319 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 2: So I don't fault him for traveling Dale Salvador. I 320 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: fault him for deciding that he wants to stake everything 321 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 2: he stands for on the proposition that we need more 322 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 2: illegal aliens in this country, that the federal government cannot 323 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 2: deport illegal aliens, and that we need more gang members 324 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 2: in this country. And as he lays out, he doesn't 325 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 2: care and he didn't ask if this guy's a gang member, 326 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 2: and apparently he didn't care if he all so as 327 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 2: committing domestic violence and beating up his wife, those are 328 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 2: not his concerns either. 329 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: I want to move also to this second big story, 330 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: and there's some people that are confused. I also think 331 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: very frustrated by the Supreme Court halting the deportations of 332 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: illegal immigrants in some cases. Can you break down what 333 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: this ruling is. Alito was in the descent here and 334 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: the headlines over Easter weekend, people are like, wait, what, how, 335 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: why is this happening. I don't understand how we're protecting 336 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: people that are illegal immigrants. Yet again, at the level 337 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court, break this down so it makes sense. 338 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 2: Well, the Supreme Court early Saturday morning issued in order 339 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 2: blocking the deportation of Venezuelan illegal immigrants under an eighteenth 340 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: century law, and what it says is that they had 341 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 2: to halt the deportations until quote further order of this Court, 342 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: and I got to say, just to Alito, joined by 343 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: Justice Thomas, wrote a very fiery descent, really disagreeing with it. 344 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 2: I'm going to read you part of the descent. Here's 345 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: what Justice Alito and Justice Thomas wrote. 346 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 3: Quote. 347 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 2: Shortly after midnight yesterday, the Court hastily and prematurely granted 348 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: unprecedented emergency relief proceeding under the all Ritz Act. The 349 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: Court ordered the quote government not to remove a quote 350 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 2: putative class of detainees until this Court issues a superseding order. 351 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 2: Although the order does not define the quote putative class, 352 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: it appears that the Court means all members of the 353 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: class that the Habeas petitioners sought to have certified, namely, quote, 354 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 2: all non citizens in custody in the Northern District of 355 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 2: Texas who were, are, and will be subject to the 356 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 2: March twenty twenty five Presidential Proclamation entitled Invocation of the 357 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 2: Alien Enemies Acts regarding the Invasion of the United States 358 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:03,479 Speaker 2: by trender Aragua and or its implementation. It also appears 359 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 2: that applicants have recently moved to amend their class petition 360 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 2: for Habeas Corpus and their motion for class certification, So 361 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 2: it is not clear if the applicants will continue to 362 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 2: defend this specific definition or will argue for a new one. 363 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 2: And although the Court does not specify what it means 364 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: by the government, it appears that term is intended to 365 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 2: embrace all the name defendants, including the President. The Court 366 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 2: did all of this even though it is not clear 367 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 2: that the Court had jurisdiction. The Allrits Act does not 368 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: provide an independent grant of jurisdiction. Therefore, the Court had 369 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: jurisdiction only if the Court of Appeals had jurisdictions of 370 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 2: the applicants appeal, and the Court of Appeals had jurisdiction 371 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 2: only if the supposed order that the applicants appealed amounted 372 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: to a denial of a preliminary injunction. But here the 373 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: order that applicants appealed was what they viewed as the 374 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 2: District court's constructive denial of their request for a temporary 375 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 2: restraining order. That is, the district Court did not actually 376 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 2: deny their most recent request for a tro but they 377 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 2: inferred that it was constructively denied because the District Court 378 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: failed a rule on that request before the expiration of 379 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: a truncated council imposed deadline. The denial of a true 380 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 2: tro is not appealable, and here it is not clear 381 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:28,719 Speaker 2: that the applicant's tro request was actually denied. Indeed, an 382 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 2: order issued last night the Fifth Circuit held that it 383 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 2: lacked jurisdiction. For this reason, it is questionable whether the 384 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 2: applicant complied with a general obligation to seek emergency and 385 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 2: junctive relief in the district court before asking for such 386 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 2: relief from an appellate court. When applicants requested such relief 387 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 2: in the district Court, they insisted on a ruling within 388 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 2: forty five minutes on Good Friday afternoon, and when the 389 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: District Court did not act within one hundred and thirty 390 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 2: three minutes, they filed a notice of appeal, which the 391 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,479 Speaker 2: District Court held deprived it of its jurisdiction. Now a 392 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 2: lot of that that jurisdictional language seems confusing, but understand 393 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 2: what happened. They went to the district Court and they 394 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 2: said we want an answer within forty five minutes, and 395 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: the court did not respond one way another forty five minutes. 396 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 2: They immediately appealed and said, up, they haven't answered. That 397 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 2: means you've denied it. And the Court of Appeals ruled that, well, 398 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 2: we're not going to act on this, and unfortunately seven 399 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 2: too the Supreme Court jumped in. And in fact, here's 400 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 2: how Justice to Leado and Justice Thomas end their dissent 401 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 2: quote in some literally, in the middle of the night, 402 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: the Court issued unprecedented and legally questionable relief, without giving 403 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 2: the lower courts a chance to rule, without hearing from 404 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 2: the opposing party, within eight hours of receiving the application, 405 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 2: with ubious factual support for its order, and without providing 406 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: any explanation for its order. I refuse to join the 407 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 2: Court's order because we had no good reason to think 408 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 2: that under the circumstances, issuing the order at midnight was 409 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 2: necessary or appropriate. Both the executive and the judiciary have 410 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 2: an obligation to follow the law. The executive must proceed 411 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 2: under the terms of our order, and this Court should 412 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 2: follow established procedures. 413 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: So you look at this and what is this going 414 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: to mean moving forward? And how big of a roadblock 415 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: is this going to be for the Trump administration to 416 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: do what they've said and promised the American people, And 417 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: by the way, the American people voted for, which was 418 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: we want to secure the border and we want to 419 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: get rid of all the illegal immigrants that came into 420 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: this country, especially those that are violent. 421 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 2: Well, look, it's not clear how big a challenge it's 422 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 2: going to be. The most distressing thing about this order 423 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 2: was that it was seven to two. 424 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 3: Seven to two is not good. 425 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: It means everybody by Alito and voted to stay to 426 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 2: halt the deportations of Venezuelans. 427 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 3: It's not clear. Presumably they're going to write a more. 428 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 2: Extended opinion at some point, and so we'll find out 429 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: more their reasoning. But I got to say, look, look, 430 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 2: these two stories, this story in the first one are 431 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 2: connected because I will say the Democrats strategy in doing 432 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 2: the full Ginsburg in some ways, I think their audience 433 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: is not the American people. They've got to know somebody 434 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: on the Democrat side of the aisle has got to know, Hey, 435 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: this is not earning us votes. When we say we're 436 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 2: the party of illegal aliens and criminals and gang members 437 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 2: and wife beaters, that's us that. 438 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 3: You don't have to be. 439 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: A rocket scientist when it comes to reading public opinion 440 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 2: to know that's not the most popular of issues to 441 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 2: stake your entire party platform on. But in many ways 442 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 2: they're aiming at a much smaller audience. They're aiming at five. 443 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 2: They're hoping to get five justices pissed off, and and 444 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 2: to get them pissed off enough that we see a 445 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: series of Supreme Court orders against the Trump administration trying 446 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 2: to halt these deportations. Now, I don't think that's going 447 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 2: to happen, but but this ruling is troubling that it 448 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 2: was seven to two. 449 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 3: Alito's descent. 450 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 2: Look, Alito was was was very concerned about this, and 451 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 2: the procedural minutia that he that he recounts as is 452 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 2: very unusual. Uh, and so that dynamic, it is a 453 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 2: dangerous process. 454 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 3: It is. 455 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 2: Right now, there's a little bit of a game of chicken, 456 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: and I think what the Democrats are trying to do 457 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 2: is is piss off a couple of Supreme Court justices 458 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: and get them to rule decisively against the president. That 459 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 2: would be very unfortunate if that starts to happen. 460 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: Well, another question, real quick before we move on, is 461 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: part of this Could it just be the quickness that 462 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: they were asking for the ruling from the court. Is 463 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: that something that you could change moving forward? Could that 464 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: be part of that issue? 465 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, it was done it as an emergency appeal, 466 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 2: and there are times, you know, there's another context to 467 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 2: where this happens a lot, which is dealing with death 468 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 2: penalty appeals. And when you have death penalty appeals, you 469 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 2: have someone who's been convicted of a capital offense and 470 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 2: they're set to be executed, and very frequently you have 471 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: last minute appeals that are filed. And I'll tell you 472 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 2: when I was a law clerk. I was a law 473 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 2: clerk for Chief Justice Renquist in nineteen ninety six and 474 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven and at the time, so this gives 475 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 2: you a sense you can now make a crack about 476 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 2: how old I am at the time. The way we 477 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 2: would get these emergency appeals is they would be faxed in, 478 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 2: so they weren't emailed at the time. They'd be faxed 479 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 2: in and you'd get it off the facts and you 480 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 2: would get say, if the midnight was if the execution 481 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 2: was scheduled to happen at midnight, and by the way, 482 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: if it was midnight on the West coast, that meant 483 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: it was three am in d C. But if the 484 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,479 Speaker 2: execution was scheduled at midnight, you would get sometimes one 485 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: hundred page appeal faxed in at ten thirty pm and 486 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 2: what would happen. So what plays out when that gets 487 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 2: faxed in is is the justice who is the lead 488 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 2: justice for that circuit. So each circuit, each region of 489 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 2: the country has a lead justice who is the justice 490 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 2: to whom emergency appeals go. Initially, Chief Justice Renquest was 491 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 2: the lead justice for the fourth circuit was concerned death 492 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 2: penalty appeals, and so that was Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Maryland, 493 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 2: West Virginia, and Virginia. In particularly there were fair number 494 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 2: capital cases. So you would get it faxed to you, You, 495 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 2: as the law clerk, would read through it. You'd have 496 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 2: to read through it very quickly. You have to prepare 497 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 2: a memo, write a memo. You then send it to 498 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 2: your justice. And a lot of times, if this was 499 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 2: at midnight or one or two or three in the morning, 500 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 2: you'd have to call home and wake your justice up. 501 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 2: Your justice would be asleep. You'd call home, you'd say, Chief, 502 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 2: we had an emergency appeal. 503 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 3: Now. 504 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 2: Now the justice would know there was an execution set 505 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 2: that night, and so would know that there is likely 506 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 2: to be a call. But you'd call, wake your justice 507 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 2: up and ask okay, here's the arguments, here's what I 508 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 2: think about it, and you would write a memo from 509 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 2: your justice saying summarizing the arguments in the appeal and 510 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: making the recommendation. So for Chief Justice Renquist, in virtually 511 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 2: every circumstance, if someone was seeking to halt an execution 512 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 2: at the last minute, he would recommend that that be denied. 513 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 2: You would then forward it to the other eight chambers. 514 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: To the other eight chambers, and there was a law clerk, 515 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: so in the night of execution, at least nine of 516 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 2: us were there till midnight or one or two or 517 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 2: three in the morning. And so when you would forward 518 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 2: your memo, in a memo in a case like this, 519 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 2: would be anywhere from two to maybe eight pages, depending 520 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 2: on how complicated the issues were. They would then get 521 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 2: your memo, and they've gotten the appeal as well, so 522 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 2: they're reading the appeal at the same time. They would 523 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 2: then call their justice, wake him er her up at home, 524 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: and they would cast votes at midnight or one or 525 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 2: two or three in the morning. And a strategy that 526 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 2: is still quite frequent when it comes to death penalty 527 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 2: appeals is just throw so much crap at the wall 528 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: that they're hoping the justices say, I don't know, I 529 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 2: can't figure this out this quickly, all right, just stay 530 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 2: the execution, halt the execution so we can figure this 531 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: all out. And unfortunately that strategy that that strategy can work. 532 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 2: That there may have been some of that that this 533 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 2: was being done over Easter weekend very quickly, and it 534 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 2: may be that the justices wanted to say, hold on 535 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 2: a second, we want to understand what's going on here. 536 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 3: That's possible, but. 537 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 2: I do think the democrats entire strategy is try to 538 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 2: see if they can get a majority of the Supreme 539 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 2: Court ticked off. And I don't think that's happened, but 540 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 2: I do think that would be very dangerous and harmful 541 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 2: if it did happen. 542 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really great point. And by the way, 543 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: don't forget if you are new to this podcast. Is 544 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: this your first time listening, Maybe you caught us on 545 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: the radio with our syndicated show. Make sure that you 546 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: hit that subscriber auto download button right now so you 547 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: do not miss an episode as we do this Monday, 548 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: Wednesday Friday, we have a weekend review of the big 549 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: three stories of the week you may have missed on 550 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: Saturdays as well, and then if you are driving around 551 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: on the weekend, make sure you check your local news 552 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: talk station and you can find this show on the radio. 553 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: It's really really cool, so we hope you enjoy that 554 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: as well. In the center, I will see you back 555 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: here on Wednesday morning.