Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a brid egg
Speaker 1: Frida Egg, the dread Frida eg, Frida Egg bride egg Lie,
Speaker 1: I'm about ready to run off of the Welcome back
Speaker 1: to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode
Speaker 1: is with Andrew Putnam. Andrew plays on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: He has been out there for a few years now,
Speaker 1: has really established himself as a good PGA Tour player. Uh,
Speaker 1: he starred at Pepperdine University, and uh, you know a
Speaker 1: guy that's not really out there that much, like he's
Speaker 1: not on social media much is He's an interesting dude
Speaker 1: because he's does things a little bit differently, no swing coach,
Speaker 1: a little bit different approach to the game, a little
Speaker 1: bit different style to the way he plays versus the
Speaker 1: rest of the tour. Really, so, I was super excited
Speaker 1: to talk to Andrew, and we did it in person
Speaker 1: when I was down at riv last week. And I
Speaker 1: think this was a really good conversation. Something I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about at the top here before we get
Speaker 1: to the Andrew interview was Riviera in general. I went down.
Speaker 1: I think this was the third year that I've gone
Speaker 1: down to Riviera for the tournament, and I think as
Speaker 1: the stature of the event, the fields continue to get
Speaker 1: better and better, and obviously with the new designated events
Speaker 1: to the field was outstanding this last week at Riviera,
Speaker 1: and you know, the courses it really shines, even with
Speaker 1: how far these guys are hitting the golf ball and
Speaker 1: rendering a lot of the shots at Riviera less consequential
Speaker 1: than they used to be, because you know, these guys
Speaker 1: are hanging nine irons, wedges and such into long part fours.
Speaker 1: But the course continues to shine, and I think, like
Speaker 1: what everybody is talking about is like how do we
Speaker 1: get more Rivieras on the schedule. And that's the tough thing.
Speaker 1: I think everybody looks at this event and it's been
Speaker 1: such a success, and it's how do we replicate this?
Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's actually possible. You know,
Speaker 1: the reality of today's day and age is that clubs
Speaker 1: get tired of hosting PGA Tour event after a few years.
Speaker 1: You know, it used to be a huge badge of honor.
Speaker 1: You used to see longtime hosts do you think about Westchester,
Speaker 1: you think about the Michigan Warwick Hills Course, you think
Speaker 1: about cog Hill in Chicago. We used to have these
Speaker 1: long time hosts Butler National before cog Hill, and obviously
Speaker 1: that went away because of the lack of women members.
Speaker 1: But we have these law We used to have these
Speaker 1: longtime club hosts, and really that's changed over i'd say
Speaker 1: the last twenty years or so, and it's become harder
Speaker 1: and harder to find clubs that want to host tournament
Speaker 1: golf year in and year out. At Riviera, it's a
Speaker 1: little bit different. It's not a membership club, so in
Speaker 1: terms of you know, one of the big differences is
Speaker 1: it's a single owner and the single owner wants to
Speaker 1: host it. So that's what they do. They host the tournament.
Speaker 1: The history is really shown well through the clubhouse, Like
Speaker 1: I mean, they have a whole wall of champions that
Speaker 1: shows every single year LA Open winners. I thought that
Speaker 1: was kind of cool and nice ode But the members
Speaker 1: don't have a say and they can't complain about losing
Speaker 1: their course for ten or eleven days every single year.
Speaker 1: That's not a problem at Riviera, but that becomes a
Speaker 1: problem at almost every other club in America that wants
Speaker 1: that hosts year in, year out. The other thing that's
Speaker 1: kind of irreplicable about Riviera is its location. It's right
Speaker 1: in the like it's just on the border of Brentwood,
Speaker 1: Santa Monica, and Pacific Palisades. It's a great place, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's players are genuinely excited about Riviera, not just
Speaker 1: because of the golf course, but because of where it is,
Speaker 1: the town. Getting to spend a week in Santa Monica,
Speaker 1: they go out, they eat in one of the best
Speaker 1: food areas of the world. So it's a unique experience
Speaker 1: on tour, not only for the fans, but also for
Speaker 1: the players. You see a lot of the players' wives
Speaker 1: come to this event because it's such a delightful place
Speaker 1: to be. So that's something to keep in mind with
Speaker 1: tour events is that, you know, I think that the
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour can be a grind for players that
Speaker 1: week in week out, you go to these different areas
Speaker 1: and you know, whether it be Palm Springs or Harbor Town,
Speaker 1: it's like these vacation places where you know, it's not
Speaker 1: a place like La where you're in the city and
Speaker 1: you have lots of things you can go do, you
Speaker 1: can go see sporting events and different things. And that's
Speaker 1: something that I I kind of really thought of as
Speaker 1: a missed opportunity for the PGA Tour is you know,
Speaker 1: La has a lot of great things to do, but
Speaker 1: it also has a lot of great golf courses, and
Speaker 1: Riviera happens to be the one that hosts all the time,
Speaker 1: and that's awesome, but you know where the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: is missing, and how do you create something You're never
Speaker 1: going to create Riviera multiple times across you know, the
Speaker 1: course of a calendar year. But how do you get
Speaker 1: better golf courses more consistently. And the key to that
Speaker 1: is going to great markets, great golf markets and having
Speaker 1: mainstay events. But you have to start to create these
Speaker 1: rotations because again, the memberships, the golf courses, they get
Speaker 1: tired of hosting year and year out. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're giving up ten days at one of the very
Speaker 1: best times of the year in our golf windows only
Speaker 1: six months, So you have to ration the amount of
Speaker 1: times you're going back to these so easy ways for
Speaker 1: the tour schedule to get better, to be a better product,
Speaker 1: because venues matter. Going to good golf courses matter these guys.
Speaker 1: It's just a better test to golf. As we saw
Speaker 1: with Rom and hom of battling down the stretch, it
Speaker 1: was awesome to see a golf course that provided some
Speaker 1: stuff they had to think about getting in bad places
Speaker 1: around the greens, in different things. So with that mind,
Speaker 1: I kind of started to think about what could these
Speaker 1: what could the tour do that you know, would start
Speaker 1: to replicate this at more designated events. Number one, you
Speaker 1: got to have you got to go to a few cities,
Speaker 1: and right off the top of the list, New York area,
Speaker 1: the New York market, the met golf section, that's the
Speaker 1: most golf rich area in the country. And the fact
Speaker 1: that there's not a regular event there is absolutely crazy
Speaker 1: not to mention all the businesses done there. I'm sure
Speaker 1: there's a sponsor on the PGA Tour that would love
Speaker 1: to host eight annual New York Golf event New York,
Speaker 1: New Jersey. So my just first stab at creating a
Speaker 1: little rotation of that go Bethpage, Ridgewood and Westchester. So
Speaker 1: with beth Page, you're hitting Long Island. It's easy to
Speaker 1: get to from the city, and obviously it's a major
Speaker 1: Championship host golf course Ridgewood is outstanding. That was one
Speaker 1: of the golf courses that I was, you know, most,
Speaker 1: I guess surprised. I knew it was a good golf course,
Speaker 1: but I was so pleasantly surprised after playing there. I
Speaker 1: thought it was so much fun. It stood up really
Speaker 1: well at the USM last year, and I think it
Speaker 1: stood up well at the PGA Tour playoff event it
Speaker 1: hosted a few years back. I think Bryson won that one.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't crazy. Even though it was wet, the
Speaker 1: scoring wasn't crazy, and it's a really fun golf course,
Speaker 1: good test. And then the final one hit a different
Speaker 1: part of the city. Go up to Westchester, obviously longtime
Speaker 1: host years ago, go play that golf course. And you've
Speaker 1: got a nice little three rotation. And so you're not
Speaker 1: going back to Ridgewood and asking him to host every
Speaker 1: single year. You're asking him to host every three years.
Speaker 1: Maybe you find a fourth course to put in there.
Speaker 1: I'm sure people have some ideas. If you have ideas,
Speaker 1: feel free to reach out to me. I'd love to
Speaker 1: hear your New York rotation. Then you go to Chicago,
Speaker 1: you need to have an annual event in Chicago if
Speaker 1: you're interested in upping the venue quality, because there aren't
Speaker 1: many cities that can host an annual event at great
Speaker 1: golf courses. With Chicago, you obviously have Olympia Fields. We'll
Speaker 1: see it this year in the BMW. We saw it
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago during the COVID BMW have
Speaker 1: a great finish with DJ and John Ram. That's a
Speaker 1: golf course that can stand up to players and provides
Speaker 1: a pretty interesting test. Madina Number three is undergoing a
Speaker 1: renovation this year, so that will be a new look Medina.
Speaker 1: And you know, in terms of venue, just outside of
Speaker 1: just golf course, I'm pretty bullish on the golf course
Speaker 1: being very good when it's renovated because it's on a
Speaker 1: outstanding piece of ground. But from a venue standpoint, there
Speaker 1: are a few courses in the world that are better
Speaker 1: suited to host big major golf terms than Madina. There's
Speaker 1: so much space and it's an awesome club. And then finally,
Speaker 1: Conway Farms. Now, is Conway Farms the most stout test, No,
Speaker 1: but it's in a different part of the city and
Speaker 1: it's just been renovated by Jackson and con it's got
Speaker 1: a much I think they've greatly improved their aesthetic. They've
Speaker 1: greatly improved some holes that have a lot more strategy
Speaker 1: than they used to now. I think that golf course
Speaker 1: is one that's gotten a lot better thanks to the
Speaker 1: renovation from Jackson and con and that provides you a
Speaker 1: nice Chicago rotation. Further on, another city, Philadelphia. How good
Speaker 1: would it be if we saw a rotation of Philly
Speaker 1: Cricket Club Arono Mink and Wilmington. Philly Cricket Clubs obviously
Speaker 1: hosted a senior PGA. That would be an awesome, awesome
Speaker 1: PGA to our course. I have no clue if they
Speaker 1: would be opened up hosting it, but that would be
Speaker 1: an amazing place to have an event every couple of
Speaker 1: years around the make same bucket. That was a great
Speaker 1: BMW even through the soaked rain, And obviously they're hosting
Speaker 1: a PGA in coming years. And I thought Wilmington was
Speaker 1: a fine PGA tour course. Is a great great golf course, No,
Speaker 1: but I think it's an above average PGA tour course
Speaker 1: and serves another area. But like Philly, these great golf
Speaker 1: cities you have to go do. I think the key
Speaker 1: here is rotation. You can't go back every single year
Speaker 1: to these places. They get tired, they get stale, the
Speaker 1: events get stale. So rotations, what about regional rotations. Wisconsin
Speaker 1: is now out of major Championship golf US opens aren't
Speaker 1: gonna go back to Aaron Hills. It doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: and PGAs can't go you know, Men's Major Golf is
Speaker 1: not gonna go there. So what about a regional Wisconsin, Indiana,
Speaker 1: Michigan rotation. So let's take the rocket mortgage and rotate
Speaker 1: it around or you know, maybe it's a differ for
Speaker 1: an event, but we got Whistling Straits, Aaron Hills, Crooked Stick,
Speaker 1: and Detroit Golf Club. It hits different parts of the
Speaker 1: country that are going to be so excited to come
Speaker 1: out and show up. And there are good golf courses
Speaker 1: to go to, so you know, you're you're flying in,
Speaker 1: parachuting in. The support from local community is going to
Speaker 1: be huge to the years you host in these areas,
Speaker 1: and you're also achieving something important going to good golf courses.
Speaker 1: Another one, a little bit off the wall that I
Speaker 1: threw together here Denver, Washington, Oregon and Utah. Here's the
Speaker 1: Rotation Cherry Hills, Chambers Bay Band in Dunes and then
Speaker 1: sand Hollow Down in Saint George, which can obviously pull
Speaker 1: from Salt Lake City as well as Las Vegas. I
Speaker 1: think that would be a really great way to hit
Speaker 1: up some areas of the country that aren't used to golf.
Speaker 1: That's just some ideas for the America American aspect of it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: then you could take some of these designated events internet
Speaker 1: nationally the UK and Australia would be amazing. The hard
Speaker 1: thing with those is just going to be fitting them
Speaker 1: into the PGA to tour schedule with travel, Like obviously
Speaker 1: these guys just don't want to go to Australia because
Speaker 1: of how long it takes. I would love to see
Speaker 1: them play in Australia in the winter sometime. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: a kickoff, like an Australian event would be great before
Speaker 1: you go to Caappealoua. So you're kind of buffering that
Speaker 1: travel back with Hey, we're going to do Australia, then
Speaker 1: we're going to do Capolua. But those are just a
Speaker 1: few ideas, and I'll let us get to Andrew Putnam.
Speaker 1: But I'd love to see one of the big focuses
Speaker 1: with this designated event push be venues while they're reworking
Speaker 1: this schedule in the coming year. Really, I mean this
Speaker 1: is the time. I think They've got a bunch of
Speaker 1: meetings in the coming weeks that are going to be
Speaker 1: deciding how this tour looks in the next year. And
Speaker 1: I'd love to see a little bit of a focus
Speaker 1: on designated events venues as well as how they make
Speaker 1: up the field. So, without further ado, here's Andrew Putnam.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the podcast, and thanks to
Speaker 1: Andrew for coming on. I got to ask you this question.
Speaker 1: It's a question that I think about a lot. Is Reno.
Speaker 1: Would you consider it as a past champion, a Reno
Speaker 1: which you can consider it part of the Pacific Northwest?
Speaker 2: I would not, No, that's I'd never thought of it
Speaker 2: Pacific Northwest. I'm thinking more Oregon, Washington, Idaho. But I
Speaker 2: haven't heard the case. I haven't heard the case for
Speaker 2: why Reno would be So how's it?
Speaker 1: At a bookstore in my town? I'm in northern California, technically,
Speaker 1: you know, really kind of central if you think about it,
Speaker 1: dividing the state. And I saw a book about mushrooms
Speaker 1: of the pacifica northwest right in the window, and I
Speaker 1: was like, well, am I in the northwest Pacific Northwest?
Speaker 1: But my thought is wherever there are redwood trees, like
Speaker 1: redwood forest, I kind of consider.
Speaker 2: That constitutes us. Yeah, I mean, if that's your definition,
Speaker 2: then I guess it would be.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that you include Idaho.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've just always thought of Idaho just it's it's
Speaker 2: cold and gloomy, kind of like Washington's. I don't know,
Speaker 2: we used to. I mean there's a lot of like
Speaker 2: junior tournaments that would cross over into Idaho, so it
Speaker 2: just feels kind of one one area. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, so you're down in Phoenix in the winter full
Speaker 1: time really.
Speaker 2: Well we used to actually sold our house, so now
Speaker 2: we're actually full time in university place right by Chambers Bay.
Speaker 1: Wow. So you're one of the that's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm yeah, I'm there right now because our kids
Speaker 2: and all that, But we do miss Scottsdale in the
Speaker 2: wintertimes and we still spend quite a bit of time there.
Speaker 1: So you're one of the few PGA tour players that's
Speaker 1: not like Texas Sea Island in Florida or Arizona.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me and I guess Kyle Stanley are the only
Speaker 2: ones up there right now.
Speaker 1: But how do you think growing up in Washington kind
Speaker 1: of shaped you as a golfer?
Speaker 2: You know, I think there's a lot of good tours it,
Speaker 2: you know, they have, I mean, Washington Zone is one
Speaker 2: of the strongest, like junior golf as one of the strongest,
Speaker 2: I guess statewide junior golf programs wj g A. They've
Speaker 2: they've existed for a long time, and competition is a
Speaker 2: sneaky good up there. We've had quite a few tour
Speaker 2: players come out of there, especially recently compared to how
Speaker 2: many golfers there are, you know. And so but in
Speaker 2: terms of like man in high school, I had to
Speaker 2: play through everything like just I just remember like the
Speaker 2: cups being full of water and still having to play,
Speaker 2: and just the nastiest weather you could ever imagine. And
Speaker 2: so I think it looking back on it like that,
Speaker 2: that was just all I ever knew. So I just
Speaker 2: did it and had fun with it. But I think
Speaker 2: obviously it translates into having a little more grit on
Speaker 2: the PJ tour. You know, a lot a lot of
Speaker 2: kids now like went to these IMG academies in Florida
Speaker 2: or California and just played in perfect weather, so they're
Speaker 2: not as for bad weather as I am.
Speaker 1: I have a buddy who's on the corn Ferry Tour.
Speaker 1: I'm from Chicago, and he kind of he turned pro
Speaker 1: and then he was down in Florida and then he
Speaker 1: eventually made the decision to move back to Chicago in
Speaker 1: the and spend winter in Chicago, and he kind of
Speaker 1: rationalized it as like I struggled with golf all the
Speaker 1: time and I needed a break. Is that did you?
Speaker 1: You know? Is that something that part of you know
Speaker 1: growing up in Washington that became part of your golf,
Speaker 1: like having a weather andduce break?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I played basketball the way through high
Speaker 2: school and you kind of get forced time off because
Speaker 2: the weather's just not fun to play in, you know.
Speaker 2: So I think that that was good for me, like
Speaker 2: playing a team sport, and I think for juniors now
Speaker 2: that's even more important because it's so hyper focused on
Speaker 2: like you got to get good quick and fast, and
Speaker 2: like you know, so many guys are burning out now.
Speaker 2: So I think having like a forced break is great
Speaker 2: and now translating to like where I am now, it's like, man,
Speaker 2: when I was living in Phoenix, like you never questioned
Speaker 2: what the weather is going to be like when you
Speaker 2: woke up, Like it's sunny every day, right, And so
Speaker 2: there's like if you want to take a few days off,
Speaker 2: you almost felt guilty because like the weather's so good
Speaker 2: that it's like why why wouldn't I go practice? You know?
Speaker 2: But then now living up in Washington, it's like, man,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to practice because it's forty in raining.
Speaker 2: Like I'm just I'm not doing it, so I don't
Speaker 2: feel bad. So it actually it does. There's a part,
Speaker 2: you know, there's part of it that it helps with
Speaker 2: rest because you're you're forced to take a little time
Speaker 2: off on off weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was reading I found this Pepperdine article about you,
Speaker 1: and there's a quote, when you spend so much time
Speaker 1: playing a sport, your identity and worth as a human
Speaker 1: becomes tied to how you perform. But my identity is
Speaker 1: not in what I do or what I play. And
Speaker 1: that's a good lesson that I'm glad I learned early on.
Speaker 1: When is that just from having that time off that
Speaker 1: you you kind of came to.
Speaker 2: That, Uh No, that's just trial and error. I think
Speaker 2: that just as I mean every golfer, I feel like
Speaker 2: that's the big struggle is like, man, our identity is
Speaker 2: in I mean any I think in anything obviously can
Speaker 2: wrap your identity in your job, and but more so
Speaker 2: in like competitive sports, it's just like a that's just
Speaker 2: par for the course, Like you spend so much time
Speaker 2: on it. It's extremely important. And yeah, when you when
Speaker 2: I mean, there's moments when all you know, any tour
Speaker 2: golfer has been extremely depressed with bad results, and so
Speaker 2: you learn like, hey, man, I'm I'm identifying my worth
Speaker 2: as a human because I play playing bad right and
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel good. And so that's something that you
Speaker 2: got to learn and get through. And I kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, obviously have a lot of good people around
Speaker 2: me to keep me on track, and my faith growing
Speaker 2: up is a big part of that. But that's a
Speaker 2: huge lesson that you got to learn as a as
Speaker 2: a high level golfer. I mean, and it's never it's
Speaker 2: never like I'm I'm free of that, Like it just
Speaker 2: always comes back.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean that's I think it's got to
Speaker 1: be part of it because of the individual aspect of it. Right,
Speaker 1: versus you know, growing up playing basketball, like when the
Speaker 1: team's playing bad, it's a joint thing and you're in
Speaker 1: it together almost. But with golf, is does it just
Speaker 1: make it so difficult because it's an individual thing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it just it solely relies on you, and
Speaker 2: it's like you can't blame anyone else. It's like, yep,
Speaker 2: I'm terrible right now. I don't know what to say.
Speaker 2: I mean, and golf is just like a fickle sport
Speaker 2: where like, man, you can feel like you're like, when
Speaker 2: it's going well, you feel like it's the easiest game
Speaker 2: in the world, but then when it's going bad, You're like,
Speaker 2: I honestly have no idea how I'm ever gonna like
Speaker 2: play good again. There's certain it's just like the highs
Speaker 2: and lowser insane.
Speaker 1: What would you say has been the most frustrating point
Speaker 1: of your career? Like it is there a period where
Speaker 1: you think back to like a specific run of events
Speaker 1: where it was like, God, I you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know why I'm doing this.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I've had multiple episodes of that. I
Speaker 2: mean in college I got the driver yips, I was
Speaker 2: like gonna be probably second team All American Pepperdine had
Speaker 2: like eight top tens and then my driver broke and
Speaker 2: then all this stuff happened, and I shot a million.
Speaker 2: I went to play Carson Creek in Oklahoma, and it's
Speaker 2: like the worst course ever to have driver problems. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you've been there, it's a nightmare, but
Speaker 2: I literally almost I mean I barely was breaking ninety.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, dude, I'm a good player, Like I'm
Speaker 2: second team All American. I mean, another guy in my
Speaker 2: team the final round, I was like fifteen over another
Speaker 2: guy in my group or another teammate came up. I
Speaker 2: was like, on the sixteenth green, I saw him coming
Speaker 2: riding in a rules officials cart coming up, and I'm like, Chad,
Speaker 2: what are you? What's going on? Why are you on
Speaker 2: a rules officials cart? And He's like, bro, I lost
Speaker 2: all my golf balls. I had to withdraw, and I'm
Speaker 2: sitting there with the driver ybs, having to finish this
Speaker 2: college tournament. That was probably the lowest point of my
Speaker 2: golf career. I remember my parents been out there watching me,
Speaker 2: and I I was legit in tears, saying Dad, I
Speaker 2: need to quit, Like this is not like you know,
Speaker 2: when you got left and right going you can't find
Speaker 2: the map. It was a nightmare. So that that took
Speaker 2: me like six months to work through. That was terrible.
Speaker 1: I had a buddy who was a really good, like
Speaker 1: a really good amateur player played in college, and U
Speaker 1: like was like a very good driver of the golf
Speaker 1: ball that got it. The only way he could not
Speaker 1: get away from the driver, yps was hitting a ball
Speaker 1: off the deck, off the tee, so you just throw
Speaker 1: the ball down and he hit it off the ground. Like,
Speaker 1: how did you work through that? Because we've obviously seen
Speaker 1: we I think it's like an under talked about thing
Speaker 1: that happens to very elite golfers, is the driver, like
Speaker 1: the you know, you kind of lose it and starts
Speaker 1: going both ways, and yeah, as soon as you don't
Speaker 1: have confidence in that club, it can be scary.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I just grinded through it. Honestly. I
Speaker 2: just my natural reaction was to just stop playing and
Speaker 2: just be like, Okay, I'm gonna take time off. But
Speaker 2: I knew that it wouldn't the problems wouldn't go away,
Speaker 2: you know. So it's one of those things where like
Speaker 2: if you're facing something like that you just got to
Speaker 2: go through it. And I just kept playing and literally
Speaker 2: shooting in the eighties like NonStop, non stop, beating myself
Speaker 2: down to like ground zero, and then once you hit
Speaker 2: the bottom, then that's when you can kind of like
Speaker 2: work your way out. You know, it just sucked for
Speaker 2: six seven months, I don't know how long it's but
Speaker 2: then like that next year, I remember just having a
Speaker 2: couple of good things happened, like qualified for the US
Speaker 2: Open as an amateur that next year, and there's just
Speaker 2: you know things that like Okay, I'm back and got
Speaker 2: my confidence back. But yeah, I mean that was bad.
Speaker 2: I kind of had a similar thing happen on my
Speaker 2: rookie year as a PGA player. I just was kind
Speaker 2: of just had no idea where my game was at.
Speaker 2: And I remember had a good fall. I was like
Speaker 2: probably top ten on the corn Ferry kind of list.
Speaker 2: I got into this riv event and then I just
Speaker 2: kind of, I don't know, rookie year on the PGA
Speaker 2: tour is tough, Like things can get out of control
Speaker 2: of fast. Again's kind of spiral and you can just
Speaker 2: get into like a bad rhythm where you're just trying
Speaker 2: to play catch up and you're changing things. Anyways, I
Speaker 2: was in one of those death spirals and I remember
Speaker 2: Travelers Championship playing like this pro am and offside pro am,
Speaker 2: and it was at like this course that was pretty
Speaker 2: wide open, and I remember playing the first of the
Speaker 2: front nine and I hit probably I m out of
Speaker 2: lost like four or five balls off the tee. I
Speaker 2: remember these guys in my pro am like looking at
Speaker 2: me and like, hey, so are you playing in this
Speaker 2: tournament this week?
Speaker 1: The tour ement?
Speaker 2: Are are you just here like filling in for that?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh no, this is not a good sign.
Speaker 2: If these guys don't even think I'm like, you know,
Speaker 2: I remember like I ended up withdrawing from that tournament
Speaker 2: because I was like having just like crazy anxiety of
Speaker 2: like I couldn't play golf, like I don't know, I
Speaker 2: just I couldn't, Like dude, I don't know what was
Speaker 2: going on. And I withdrew and it was like very humbling,
Speaker 2: Like I remember like calling some my coaches and I
Speaker 2: was like, man, I was like in tears in the airport,
Speaker 2: just like dude, I can't do it.
Speaker 1: And uh.
Speaker 2: I think that was a big breakthrough for me because
Speaker 2: I realized like I could, I could say no to golf.
Speaker 2: It's hard to like as a rookie, you feel you
Speaker 2: got to keep playing. I'm like no, Like I can
Speaker 2: take two weeks off and I can put the pause
Speaker 2: button on and like, I don't have to keep going
Speaker 2: down this road where golf is everything. And I think
Speaker 2: I kind of woke up there and obviously didn't finish
Speaker 2: off my season great, but I think that was a
Speaker 2: big moment for me, especially as a young professional, like
Speaker 2: going through that early on.
Speaker 1: I feel like the same thing happens with the corn
Speaker 1: Ferry Tour, where you have this race to points, and
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, as a rookie, it's you don't
Speaker 1: get you start where you start right, you don't get
Speaker 1: a set here. So if you're in you feel like
Speaker 1: you have to play, just like on the corn Ferry
Speaker 1: where like you know, you watch these guys they'll play
Speaker 1: twelve weeks in a row and it's like, no, that's
Speaker 1: like not a good thing to do.
Speaker 2: Healthy, yeah, like any aspect of you.
Speaker 1: But it's like that, it's like a fear of missing
Speaker 1: out on points. It's like, well, I'm like I'm forty
Speaker 1: fifth right now, and if I don't play, I'm guaranteed
Speaker 1: to drop down to fifty and like that that's the
Speaker 1: tricky thing. How hard was it? Also? You know, like
Speaker 1: you hear people talk about learning courses, and now that
Speaker 1: you're a veteran on the PGA Tour, what would you
Speaker 1: place in terms of a like kind of like does
Speaker 1: it really save you shots week and week out? Or
Speaker 1: can some places get harder the more you play it?
Speaker 2: I absolutely think like the more you play something doesn't
Speaker 2: mean you're going to play better. There's certain courses that
Speaker 2: might work on but like, for example, yesterday LA was
Speaker 2: my first time playing. I was like five hundred through
Speaker 2: nine holes. You know, I'm not saying that that's a
Speaker 2: good strategy, but I don't know. There's something to like
Speaker 2: simplifying like golf right like you can as a rookie.
Speaker 2: That's one thing that was really hard is like, man
Speaker 2: I played the Monday pro am. I played Tuesday, played
Speaker 2: nine holes and Wednesdays practicing. It's like when Thursday rolls around,
Speaker 2: you're just exhausted and you're like, man, I learned the course,
Speaker 2: but then I'm exhausted and I don't know. So there's
Speaker 2: a fine line I think for that and now like
Speaker 2: I feel like, man, I can just show up on
Speaker 2: like a Tuesday, maybe play nine Tuesday, nine Wednesday, and
Speaker 2: I'm good to go because obviously I've played all the
Speaker 2: courses a lot and know them, so that helps. But yeah,
Speaker 2: there's something, there's like a definitely a balance.
Speaker 1: I've always thought like some places, I think it more
Speaker 1: fits like certain holes, like certain holes get harder the
Speaker 1: more you play them, because like you have like the
Speaker 1: skeletons in your brain and like you or you know,
Speaker 1: I really need to avoid that spot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like.
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes it's just like why don't I just
Speaker 1: hit a good shot and hit the fair away you.
Speaker 2: Know for sure? Yeah, I know. I mean like playing
Speaker 2: yesterday La, I remember hitting a driver off the deck
Speaker 2: on this par five, like I don't know, fourteen or something,
Speaker 2: and I hit a good shot and then the pepper
Speaker 2: Ank coach was like, yeah, you know, if you hit
Speaker 2: it like twenty yards right there, it just goes into
Speaker 2: out of bounds. I'm like, well, I'm glad I didn't
Speaker 2: know that, Like I wouldn't hit a driver off the deck,
Speaker 2: but you know, it seemed like an easy shot to
Speaker 2: me at the point at the moment, so I've honestly
Speaker 2: it's weird. I've had some of my best tournaments when
Speaker 2: I've like been her or had some freak thing where
Speaker 2: I literally could only play nine hole practice rounds, and
Speaker 2: I've like played my best and I've talked to other
Speaker 2: pros and similar stories, So I think practice rounds are overrated.
Speaker 1: I was watching the Netflix show and you know, obviously
Speaker 1: mix mixed reviews for it, but one of the things
Speaker 1: I seem to clean and I think what you just
Speaker 1: hit on is like the the idea of expectations with
Speaker 1: you guys, and how like being able to keep expectations
Speaker 1: lower is such an advantage and no matter like how
Speaker 1: you compartmentalize it, and you know, and what you said,
Speaker 1: like when you've got something going on and you almost
Speaker 1: like you know, you can only play a little bit,
Speaker 1: maybe you're injured or whatever, then your expectations change.
Speaker 2: Right, Oh that's huge. Yeah, expectations are huge. It's just
Speaker 2: like if it frames a week like totally different. If
Speaker 2: your expectations are higher, you're like wanting to play well.
Speaker 2: If you're in like a hometown or it's it changes
Speaker 2: the whole week. It's it's yeah, it's key but yeah,
Speaker 2: when people play less practice rouns, I feel like you
Speaker 2: have less expectations. Like when you think like, hey, I
Speaker 2: got I've been here for three day, four days, I
Speaker 2: got this course totally figured out. Like your expectations are
Speaker 2: going to be higher. They're like, hey, I should play well.
Speaker 2: Once you have that thought, it's you're just that's not good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you played with the Peppertine team at LACC. I
Speaker 1: was chatting with one of your former teammates just getting
Speaker 1: ready for this, and he wanted to know how much
Speaker 1: different the college golf landscape has changed since your time
Speaker 1: at Pepperdine. Maybe the courses these guys, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, yeah, the programs now, I feel like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: they're just so much better. Like the places they get
Speaker 2: to play. I mean, these guys are flying private jets
Speaker 2: a few weeks a year, Like it's not or not
Speaker 2: even the same ballpark clothes that they get to wear.
Speaker 2: I mean, we had some of the nastiest pleated pants,
Speaker 2: and just it's a whole new level. Like they're playing
Speaker 2: La once a month and they get to play. They're
Speaker 2: like members out of Sherwood and then they get bell
Speaker 2: Air they get I mean the places they get they
Speaker 2: get to go are just it's unbelievable and the trips
Speaker 2: they get to make. And obviously the coach at Pepperdine
Speaker 2: is is doing a great job, Michael Beard. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean he's he's one of the best coaches in
Speaker 2: the country for sure, so they're lucky to have him.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's different. It's different, especially now with
Speaker 2: the nil stuff and all that. It's man, it's wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw one of the guys because I was
Speaker 1: out there and I saw one of the guys like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's as William mau he's a big time player. You know,
Speaker 1: one of the best players in the country is wearing
Speaker 1: a ping hat like all. You know, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's got a deal, like you know, it's it's I
Speaker 1: think it's good obviously for I like long you know,
Speaker 1: when you think about the NTA, obviously an IL I
Speaker 1: think is uh is a long It was a long
Speaker 1: time coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I heard from your teammate
Speaker 1: was that you take weeks off golf. What do you
Speaker 1: like to do in your downtime?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't take a ton of time
Speaker 2: off just because there's so many tournaments on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: I man played all but one in the fall SCHEDULESO,
Speaker 2: it's more like I'm not I'm not someone that grinds
Speaker 2: on the off weeks. I'll play like twice a week.
Speaker 2: But I like, I mean, I like anything outdoors. I'm wakesurfing, surfing,
Speaker 2: mountain I got. I've got a mountain bike that I
Speaker 2: one of those electric ones. It's kind of fun to
Speaker 2: take out motorcycling. I mean, I do kind of everything.
Speaker 1: I live somewhere where a lot of people are mountain
Speaker 1: biking all the time, like crazy amounts, and I was wondering, like,
Speaker 1: is the e bike like cheating.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? It's yeah, but it's like you're get
Speaker 2: out of jail free card because like if you if
Speaker 2: you end up going too far and you're like, oh man,
Speaker 2: I like I don't want to get back, Like you
Speaker 2: just flip that thing on and you just power through it.
Speaker 2: So for me, it's like I'm going just kind of
Speaker 2: explore and just get out. If you're like a purist,
Speaker 2: you know, like my old Caddie's like all into mountain
Speaker 2: biking and he would I feel like you would never
Speaker 2: do one of those because it's you know, he looks
Speaker 2: down on that, but if you're just out there like
Speaker 2: for fun, I mean, it's it's amazing way to get around.
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Speaker 1: to Andrew Putnam. What do you think of the new
Speaker 1: tour schedule? I think, obviously, with everything that's gone on
Speaker 1: with live elevated events, we've heard a ton from top
Speaker 1: tier players, like you know, Rory's really stepped up obviously
Speaker 1: as one of the big voices on tour. But the
Speaker 1: interesting thing is, like how this changes tour life for
Speaker 1: players of your ILK, like right in the middle, like
Speaker 1: you know, it's you know, mid level players. I hope
Speaker 1: I'm not you know, denigrating your career, but you know,
Speaker 1: how do you think the new schedule? What do you
Speaker 1: like about it? What are some of the drawbacks of
Speaker 1: it for a player that's kind of you know, you're
Speaker 1: in elevated events, You're playing the second elevated event in
Speaker 1: it's many weeks here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've yet to seen what the fall
Speaker 2: is like actually going to look like. But this the
Speaker 2: this year in general is the same as it always
Speaker 2: has been. Really, I mean not not much has changed
Speaker 2: other than those elevated events which I already play anyways,
Speaker 2: So it's not changing a whole lot, but once the
Speaker 2: fall rolls around, that's kind of where I'm curious to
Speaker 2: see how it all shakes up, you know, that's where
Speaker 2: all the changes kind of are coming. And I don't
Speaker 2: even know if they know what the fall looks like.
Speaker 1: What would you like to see the fall look like?
Speaker 2: I'd like to have a break, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, we never really get that much time off,
Speaker 2: so like having a few months off would be would
Speaker 2: be great. But I think that's what they're planning on.
Speaker 2: But I'm just I don't know. It's hard to know.
Speaker 1: As somebody who covers this sport, I'd like to break
Speaker 1: a little bit too, Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 2: I mean an off season wouldn't be the worst.
Speaker 1: You've played in a handful of majors. Now, what's the
Speaker 1: biggest difference for you when you go from a regular
Speaker 1: tour stop to a major.
Speaker 2: I would say, just like the vibe and the energy
Speaker 2: and the atmosphere just on another level. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think it's way more fun. Like it's just I played
Speaker 2: all I was actually in all the majors that COVID year.
Speaker 2: It was kind of unfortunate. I was an exempt through
Speaker 2: all of them, and man, it was such a bummer.
Speaker 2: It just was like, this is not that enjoyable being
Speaker 2: on the courses in these majors with no fans, and
Speaker 2: so obviously the setups are tougher and it's more penal
Speaker 2: and you got to be on kind of every aspect
Speaker 2: of your game is basically challenged. But just the crowd
Speaker 2: in the atmosphere is just the best. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: just you can't beat it. It's kind of like Phoenix Open,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like that for the Majors, just so
Speaker 2: much energy and it's just so fun.
Speaker 1: Did that Phoenix Open feel different as an elevated event
Speaker 1: than like the year before?
Speaker 2: No, not really. I mean it obviously with the better players,
Speaker 2: like all the better players being there, that makes a
Speaker 2: little difference. But the atmosphere was just as wild as
Speaker 2: it's ever been.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm interested obviously, Like this week is an
Speaker 1: event that always has a great field, so it's not
Speaker 1: that much different, And it's like when we get more
Speaker 1: into the schedule, maybe it's well Fargo, Yeah, when you
Speaker 1: have like your probably your first elevated event that isn't
Speaker 1: used to having, you know, fifteen of the top twenty
Speaker 1: players in the world or ten of the top twenty
Speaker 1: players in the world, if it'll feel any different. But
Speaker 1: I think the idea, like how are you going about
Speaker 1: building your schedule now with these events is different, Like
Speaker 1: are there stops that you like to play because they
Speaker 1: fit your game that you're having to work in and
Speaker 1: maybe it's creating like a you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: events in a row.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the Wells Fargo is the one that like,
Speaker 2: I've kind of been iffy on my schedule, but I'll
Speaker 2: probably end up playing it this year because it's in Elevated.
Speaker 2: But all the other ones, I mean, they're all events
Speaker 2: that I've always loved to play, So it's not changing
Speaker 2: a whole lot, but that middle part of the season, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be strange. What I mean, I'm still I'm
Speaker 2: in that spot where I'm like, I'm not in the Masters.
Speaker 2: I'm kind of on the edge with the match play.
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of like moving pieces that like
Speaker 2: I just I don't know where I'll be playing or not.
Speaker 2: I'm you know, living in up in Washington. It's like
Speaker 2: flying all the way to Hilton Head and then do
Speaker 2: I fly home after that or I play, you know, Louisiana.
Speaker 2: I don't know. There's just it's a tough like middle
Speaker 2: stretch for me. So we'll see how that shakes out.
Speaker 2: But I still have no idea what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 2: It's just, especially with the family and stuff, I don't
Speaker 2: know how that's gonna work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that, I mean, I imagine that makes it a
Speaker 1: lot different. I mean, I travel a ton, and being
Speaker 1: on a coast makes it a little bit tougher to
Speaker 1: get out because it's like do I take a red
Speaker 1: eye or do I just give a full day to travel.
Speaker 1: But then obviously with the family, is there a cadence
Speaker 1: that you like to keep a certain amount of weeks out,
Speaker 1: a certain amount of weeks home.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think not being gone for more than
Speaker 2: like two weeks from the family, either them coming to
Speaker 2: see me or me seeing them is probably kind of
Speaker 2: a good rhythm for us. But there's no like set
Speaker 2: in stone, we got to do this or that. That
Speaker 2: just seems like if I'm gotting on in two weeks,
Speaker 2: my kids might start forgetting about me here. That's just
Speaker 2: a preference. But yeah, what like.
Speaker 1: A week where your kids aren't or in family aren't around, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what are you doing with your downtime versus like obviously
Speaker 1: when they're around, I don't think we have to talk
Speaker 1: about like what you're doing stuff with them obviously, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what are you doing weeks that they aren't around?
Speaker 2: I'm doing stuff like this, like getting to you know,
Speaker 2: hang out and being on a podcast like I got
Speaker 2: to play you know with Pepperdine Team yesterday, and go
Speaker 2: out to dinner with a couple of friends. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: a lot of you know, trying to sleep in, read
Speaker 2: and trying to get out and like do like a
Speaker 2: couple hour hike by myself like alone each week, you know,
Speaker 2: without the phone and stuff. I think that's kind of important.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean get a catch up on business
Speaker 2: stuff I'm doing and just other stuff. It's yeah, it's
Speaker 2: quite a stark contrast between the weeks and my kids
Speaker 2: on the road and not. It's kind of weird. It's
Speaker 2: kind of hard. Honestly, it's a weird adjustment because you
Speaker 2: go from like twenty four to seven to what do
Speaker 2: I do with all this time? It's it's it is
Speaker 2: it's almost it's like a little hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I honestly, you know, last night or so,
Speaker 1: we traveled down here without our daughter and this is
Speaker 1: going to be the longest that we've been away from her.
Speaker 1: And my wife went out with friends last night and
Speaker 1: I like it was like six o'clock and I was like, wait, what, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what am I doing to, Like I'm just gonna get
Speaker 1: a site by myself? Like it's very weird the the
Speaker 1: hike without a phone. Yeah, you know, I think, like
Speaker 1: this is one of the things I'd noticed is like
Speaker 1: a lot of times when I go out and do something,
Speaker 1: I put headphones in, I listen to music or all right,
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts, and like you don't have the same
Speaker 1: thought process, Like it's almost like sometimes you feel like
Speaker 1: it's empty calories. I shouldn't be saying this as a
Speaker 1: podcast host. But then when you go without it, like
Speaker 1: it's amazing where your mind takes you if you go
Speaker 1: without anything, Like what are the things that you're thinking
Speaker 1: about when you're when you're doing that.
Speaker 2: If you don't mind sharing, yeah, I feel like you
Speaker 2: just give your like mind time to breathe and like recalibrate,
Speaker 2: like you just I try to not do it and
Speaker 2: have like an intention where I'm like I need to
Speaker 2: figure these things out. It's like, okay, just let my
Speaker 2: mind go. Like there's all these things I think in
Speaker 2: you're subconscious that like you can kind of suppress with
Speaker 2: you know, just information in and shows and just the
Speaker 2: NonStop digital life, right, And so I think allowing giving
Speaker 2: yourself that room to just like let your mind like
Speaker 2: figure out the stuff it's been putting on the back
Speaker 2: burner is really important. Like, Hey, I need to process
Speaker 2: this conversation I had with my wife where you know,
Speaker 2: got an argument or like what happened, like how should
Speaker 2: I raise my kids in this situation? Like just these
Speaker 2: random thoughts that I'm not trying to like force that
Speaker 2: just kind of pop in and you're like, wow, I'm
Speaker 2: actually able to work through through some things that I'm
Speaker 2: probably not thinking through that need to get figured out
Speaker 2: that I haven't given myself the time to do, you know.
Speaker 2: So like it's it's a very powerful, powerful like practice
Speaker 2: to just get away. I don't do it enough, but
Speaker 2: it's so important.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had any golf epiphanies doing this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had, you know, like just random things I've
Speaker 2: thought through and like, yeah, I need to change this
Speaker 2: or think through this or nothing that's been like probably
Speaker 2: groundbreaking recently. It's more just personal life stuff that I'm
Speaker 2: trying to work through.
Speaker 1: You don't have a swing coach, right, a regular swing coach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, haven't. I haven't really had one since Mark Blackburn
Speaker 2: and probably was that two thousand and fourteen or fifteen.
Speaker 2: Been kind of solo since for about six years now?
Speaker 1: Seven years? What are what do you feel like the
Speaker 1: advantages of that are?
Speaker 2: I mean for me, it was just uh I think
Speaker 2: with I mean, Mark's an incredible teacher, right, Like I
Speaker 2: credit him like getting me to the tour. Like I
Speaker 2: was kind of a bad spot on the corn Ferry
Speaker 2: and ended up meeting him and this guy Jason Glass,
Speaker 2: who a great trainer and did a lot of good
Speaker 2: work together, and I'd see him like being on the
Speaker 2: corn Fairy, you know, I'd see him like once every
Speaker 2: couple months, right, and then give me a few things
Speaker 2: work on is great, worked on them, and then see
Speaker 2: him again a couple of months. And I think that,
Speaker 2: like that rhythm was really good for me. And then
Speaker 2: I got to the tour and I think just there's
Speaker 2: just more access to information and coaches and you know Mark,
Speaker 2: Mark travels a lot, so he's out there a lot,
Speaker 2: and it's hard, like when you have a coach there,
Speaker 2: it's like how do I not see my coach and
Speaker 2: get instruction or get feedback? And I was going through
Speaker 2: some struggles with some equipment stuff too, so it was
Speaker 2: like this combination of things, and sometimes you just like
Speaker 2: just get too far off where you just kind of
Speaker 2: forget like what got you there and forget your feels.
Speaker 2: And so I think the advantage is, like, man, you
Speaker 2: become very attuned with like you have to have ownership
Speaker 2: over your game first of all, and you have to
Speaker 2: be become like I've always been a pretty feel oriented player,
Speaker 2: so I think it really forces you to engage with that.
Speaker 2: Like if I get off, I kind of have to
Speaker 2: have my checklist of these are the things I know
Speaker 2: it gets me back on. So that's advantage. Like if
Speaker 2: I'm in competition and I'm playing and I get off,
Speaker 2: I kind of know what I need to correct. But
Speaker 2: if you are too reliant upon a coach, you can
Speaker 2: have a problem where you're like, man, I need to
Speaker 2: finish this round and I need to send my coach
Speaker 2: these videos and get this figured out, Like I don't
Speaker 2: know what's going on. And so there's advantages of both.
Speaker 2: I would say, I mean the ideal case is probably
Speaker 2: having a coach you're checking in with, like having a
Speaker 2: second eye, and I still have that. I still I
Speaker 2: mean i'd seen like I went and saw but Charman,
Speaker 2: I've sent videos to David Ledbetter, like I've seen a
Speaker 2: lot of coaches throughout these six years that I haven't
Speaker 2: had a full coach, but I just haven't. I think
Speaker 2: for me it worked best with just you know, a
Speaker 2: little bit of instruction and then me kind of formulating
Speaker 2: it around my own feels and taking ownership versus the
Speaker 2: constant like input that some players need. And everyone's different,
Speaker 2: you know, everyone everyone excels differently, and that I figured that,
Speaker 2: I figured out that was the best case scenario for me.
Speaker 2: And I think, like the last couple of years, I
Speaker 2: haven't really had much coaching at all, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think like you hit on something that's extremely powerful.
Speaker 1: It is like the idea of like your coach being
Speaker 1: almost like a crutch, and when you take that away,
Speaker 1: it forces you to be And obviously I think like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different ways to approach as golf,
Speaker 1: Like you can approach things a million different ways. But
Speaker 1: when something goes wrong and you get when you see
Speaker 1: somebody regularly, your first inclination is like, Okay, I need
Speaker 1: to ask what's wrong because they're there to help. It's
Speaker 1: almost like if your home with your kids and your
Speaker 1: wife is around, it's like you say, hey, can you
Speaker 1: come help, versus if you're home alone, it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I got to figure this out right. And I think
Speaker 1: that's like an interesting thing with golf is like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's such an individual game. The more individual you can
Speaker 1: be with with your golf swing and technique is probably
Speaker 1: a pretty powerful thing. And then using coaches like you
Speaker 1: have as almost consultants where you can take or leave
Speaker 1: whatever they're saying. Yeah, how have you noticed with seeing
Speaker 1: different guys and some of the best teachers in the world,
Speaker 1: do you see different styles in the way they approach things?
Speaker 1: Has there been things like with the way they communicate something?
Speaker 1: Are they giving consistent feedback? Is like do most people
Speaker 1: point to this two similar things with you when you're
Speaker 1: seeing these different coaches.
Speaker 2: For the most part, Yeah, I mean they like kind
Speaker 2: of see the same It's like they see the same. Hey,
Speaker 2: I'm having a problem with this like how you know
Speaker 2: they pretty much all have the same consensus for you,
Speaker 2: Like these guys are smart, Mark smart, like but Charman's smart,
Speaker 2: Ledbetters like you know some of the other guys. You know,
Speaker 2: I have friends who are good swing coaches. They're smart,
Speaker 2: like they see the exact same thing. It's like it's
Speaker 2: not rock science, Like what my I get a little steep,
Speaker 2: my hips kind of go left. I don't know, there's
Speaker 2: just like things that I always do right, and it's
Speaker 2: like get a little narrow, you know, get narrow, and
Speaker 2: it's like yeah, hands and body club get away from
Speaker 2: me going back. And so there's like these patterns that
Speaker 2: like everyone points to is the same thing. But you know,
Speaker 2: the the differences in coaching is just like how they
Speaker 2: communicate it to you, you know, and that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 2: Like I think, Butch Harmon's like the kind of guy
Speaker 2: that's like a great coach, Like he he pumps you
Speaker 2: up and makes you feel like you're gonna be a
Speaker 2: world beater.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Same with Ledbetter, Like he's great like interpersonally, and I
Speaker 2: felt like he wasn't very technical at all, like he
Speaker 2: I know, he got he gets that rap, but he wasn't.
Speaker 2: He's like, man, if you're just within this range, like
Speaker 2: you'll be perfect. So I think the best the best
Speaker 2: golf swing instructors are the best coaches too, Like they
Speaker 2: know how to get you feeling confident about what they're
Speaker 2: talking about. But they all see the same stuff. You know,
Speaker 2: they're all smart. It's not like they've been doing it
Speaker 2: long enough. They can point out the flaws pretty quickly
Speaker 2: in the matchups, you know. Yeah, And so it's just
Speaker 2: more the delivery style and communication that you know, you
Speaker 2: might hear something from one person and someone says it
Speaker 2: just like a tiny bit different, it makes sense with
Speaker 2: your brain, and sometimes that's that's all you need.
Speaker 1: That's why I always say to people, it's like, if
Speaker 1: somebody just communicates the feel that connects with your brain,
Speaker 1: that's like all because they could be saying the exact
Speaker 1: same thing. But it's so hard to deliver, like telling
Speaker 1: somebody how to move their body while you're doing a
Speaker 1: golf swing that you've done a million times.
Speaker 2: And that's the problem with like relying. Like so I've
Speaker 2: see some players that are like they get so lost
Speaker 2: and they're like and they're blaming their coach for what
Speaker 2: they're doing. It's like, dude, you're dealing with unless you're
Speaker 2: making these huge changes, like you're dealing with the smallest
Speaker 2: little things that like the coach can't feel that. You
Speaker 2: can't feel what you're feeling, so like him tell giving
Speaker 2: you advice, Like why are you asking him? It's like
Speaker 2: a crutch. You want someone to blame, right, instead of
Speaker 2: digging deep and be like, no, I got to figure
Speaker 2: this out because these little like maybe it's a little
Speaker 2: timing thing, or it's a little of how the club
Speaker 2: goes back to first foot, Like these little tiny things
Speaker 2: are It's what makes like how can you go from
Speaker 2: hitting a perfect shot one swing and then hitting a
Speaker 2: bad shot the next, like if you film it on
Speaker 2: on camera, Like these golf announcers on TV are ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Obviously they need to like have content and make say stuff,
Speaker 2: but like to be able to see like oh yeah,
Speaker 2: he got kind of underneath that, or I'm like, dude,
Speaker 2: you cannot tell what's going on in a camera track.
Speaker 2: Man can pick it up and show the club path,
Speaker 2: but visually you can't see it. So how would a
Speaker 2: swing coach know those little micro adjustments? Like man, just
Speaker 2: own up to it. And don't put it on your
Speaker 2: coach to be the crutch for you, Like that's the problem,
Speaker 2: you know, And so.
Speaker 1: Many times like with that, it's just little things like
Speaker 1: if you don't feel as comfortable over the shot, like
Speaker 1: that's how like I noticed, like if I don't feel comfortable,
Speaker 1: that's when I might get under and block one.
Speaker 2: That's the thing with all its so it can be
Speaker 2: so complicated, but it's like you can from what I've
Speaker 2: tried to do is like, man, there's some weeks that
Speaker 2: I'm playing really well. The next week I don't. And
Speaker 2: it could be like I don't know, it could be
Speaker 2: the grass I'm playing on, it could be the way
Speaker 2: I'm seeing, like the shadows and the dude, there's so
Speaker 2: many weird things that could be influencing like how you're
Speaker 2: playing that I've come to like accept and realize and
Speaker 2: I think it helps you just like get over some
Speaker 2: bad golf or bad swings or you know, like putting.
Speaker 2: You could just not be seeing the reeds that well
Speaker 2: in the greens because the greens are different than the
Speaker 2: week before. And it's like, well, if I make this
Speaker 2: big overarching statement of I need to change everything, well
Speaker 2: maybe it's just a little visual something that changed, you know,
Speaker 2: and you don't get on these extremes that people can
Speaker 2: get on, especially pro golfers, like we're perfectionists. It's very hard,
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of like there's a lot of
Speaker 2: nuance to playing well.
Speaker 1: You're you're a really good putter, obviously, I mean everybody.
Speaker 1: One of the things I tell people is like everybody
Speaker 1: on tour is really good putter. Yeah. Like if you
Speaker 1: take like the worst putter on tour and put them
Speaker 1: in like a club game, they'd be the best putter
Speaker 1: out there. But I'm curious about how you approach go
Speaker 1: about approaching putting, Like what's your general thought? Are you
Speaker 1: very detail oriented? You talked about earlier being a field player.
Speaker 1: Are you what are you thinking about? Do you think?
Speaker 1: Do you just try and not think about anything? How
Speaker 1: does how do you like kind of approach your work
Speaker 1: on the greens?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean in terms of putting, like I
Speaker 2: kind of do the same drills I've always done for
Speaker 2: the last twenty years. Honestly, I kind of I have
Speaker 2: like a mirror and a ruler. I put off and
Speaker 2: then I use a string line. I do a lot
Speaker 2: of one handed putting right hand, left hand, and I
Speaker 2: kind of do the same stuff every day, like put
Speaker 2: a string line, have a left to right breaker, and
Speaker 2: do one handed putting with my right hand, one hand
Speaker 2: butt with my left hand right side, same thing. I'm
Speaker 2: not a very risky putter. I'm a lot of shoulders,
Speaker 2: and so I keep that very simple. I haven't changed
Speaker 2: my putter really, I've had kind of a similar putter
Speaker 2: for the last twenty years. I mean, I think that's important.
Speaker 2: Like people who struggle with putting, you see, they just
Speaker 2: go through putters all the time. Like my brother was
Speaker 2: never a great putter, and you have a different putter,
Speaker 2: different grip, sometimes mid round, like just different.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like that's just the tall tale sign of that
Speaker 2: guys struggling with his putting, and we switching all the time,
Speaker 2: right right, Yeah, it's hard to just be consistent like that,
Speaker 2: So keep everything pretty consistent. And then I've always like
Speaker 2: I've always read putts with my feet. It's weird. I've
Speaker 2: always kind of gone to where like the last like
Speaker 2: four or five feet are and kind of shuffled my
Speaker 2: feet in and it's just funny to see now that
Speaker 2: the aim point that's how everyone does it. But I've
Speaker 2: always done that, so it's just kind of been how
Speaker 2: I've That's how I've read putts.
Speaker 1: Do you think about speed?
Speaker 2: If I do, that's not good sign. So I'm trying
Speaker 2: because people ask me like, what do you you know?
Speaker 2: I all have friends who like, I'm pretty good golfers
Speaker 2: and always ask me like, what do you think about
Speaker 2: when you're putting on this and that? Like you are
Speaker 2: you looking at the ball? Are you seeing the back?
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, if you're thinking of speed or thinking
Speaker 2: of where your eyes looking, or it's just not good.
Speaker 2: Like I don't. I try not to have any thoughts, honestly,
Speaker 2: once I start thinking, it's not good.
Speaker 1: That's I tell people this all the time, and they
Speaker 1: think I'm like crazy, Yeah, But like I believe if
Speaker 1: I like walk around a putt, that I've hit enough
Speaker 1: putts in my life that I don't have to even
Speaker 1: contemplate how hard to hit the putt. And I compare
Speaker 1: it to like basketball, if you're coming across half court,
Speaker 1: you're not thinking about how far away from the hoop
Speaker 1: you are when you're shooting right, You're just shooting the ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just reacting exactly and That's the thing.
Speaker 1: Is like with putting, I feel like getting into that
Speaker 1: reaction where you're not thinking about anything, it becomes more reactionary,
Speaker 1: which is like, I think the hardest thing about golf
Speaker 1: is like all it's like pitching or shooting a free
Speaker 1: throw or kicking a field goal. As we've seen guys
Speaker 1: struggle with, you know, like uh, Brett Maher like you know,
Speaker 1: like he just became you know, But when you have
Speaker 1: time to think about it, that's when you can get
Speaker 1: yourself in trouble. And it's where you're not thinking about
Speaker 1: stuff can help you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean you got guys like I'm
Speaker 2: friends with Aaron Badley, and like if you heard his
Speaker 2: putting routine, you'd just be like, this guy's nuts. He
Speaker 2: doesn't I've asked him. He doesn't even know he's aiming,
Speaker 2: does no hiss aiming, And I don't even know if
Speaker 2: he does any practice putts, he says, I just look,
Speaker 2: I just get up to the ball. He's one of
Speaker 2: the best putters ever ever. I'm like, you seriously don't
Speaker 2: know what you're amy. No, just get up there and
Speaker 2: I just see it and I hit it, and that
Speaker 2: I mean, that's like the total extreme, but it shows you, like, man,
Speaker 2: the guy's been great forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. To me, it's like I used to be
Speaker 1: a really I used to struggle with putting, and when
Speaker 1: I stopped thinking about everything, I became like a way better.
Speaker 1: It's funny now I can't hit the ball right, I
Speaker 1: don't practice, but like it's it's weird how the game shifted.
Speaker 1: But it was all a mentality shift, and it was
Speaker 1: like just picking out spots and hitting a putt to
Speaker 1: a spot and not thinking about the speed, Like it's
Speaker 1: almost the worst thing that can But then everybody's different
Speaker 1: than you see guys with the line that are really
Speaker 1: great putters that everything.
Speaker 2: And I use that, use the line all that stuff.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean I think practicing your speed is good,
Speaker 2: but once you're in like tournament mode, like you shouldn't
Speaker 2: be if you're thinking speed, that's just not a bad
Speaker 2: that's not a good spot. You kind of using let
Speaker 2: it flow.
Speaker 1: You brought up your brother. He was a great player.
Speaker 1: He played on the PGA Tour I think three web
Speaker 1: event that was back when the web was the web.
Speaker 1: What was the advantage of being the younger.
Speaker 2: Brother had a lot of advantages I mean coming out
Speaker 2: like getting recruited by colleges, like they obviously knew my
Speaker 2: name just because my brother. So that was a huge advantage.
Speaker 2: And I mean playing with a guy who was I mean,
Speaker 2: he was probably one of the best, if not the best,
Speaker 2: am player coming out his year. You know, he was
Speaker 2: on the Walker Cup team. He was like probably the
Speaker 2: best player on the Walker Cup he had and he
Speaker 2: had Anthony Kim JB. Like, he had all those guys
Speaker 2: on this team. So being able to play and practice
Speaker 2: and kind of chase after him was huge advantage, like
Speaker 2: learning through his footsteps, and he kind of was the
Speaker 2: trailblazer for me. And uh yeah, I mean it's always
Speaker 2: easier the second time around.
Speaker 1: I feel like his game is like a lot different
Speaker 1: than yours too, right, like usually pretty much polar opposites. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I imagine I remember, you know, I had
Speaker 1: a buddy who was a really good high school player,
Speaker 1: and he had older brothers who played on the team,
Speaker 1: and he was like when he was a little he
Speaker 1: was scrappy, you you know, get up and down everywhere,
Speaker 1: and he would drive his brothers insane. Like, were there
Speaker 1: moments I imagine that you guys had some matches that
Speaker 1: got pretty chippy, and you, being a little bit different
Speaker 1: type player, probably riled them up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean it's always frustrating when
Speaker 2: you're hitting the ball better than someone and someone else
Speaker 2: has beaten you, like match play or anything. It's just
Speaker 2: it's the worst. I had a lot of teammates who
Speaker 2: are still have bitter feelings towards me for some of
Speaker 2: that stuff. So because he I mean, Michael is one
Speaker 2: of the best ball strikers like in the game, and
Speaker 2: his putting was good at times, you know, at times
Speaker 2: it wasn't as good. But yeah, it's when you're hitting
Speaker 2: into five feet and you're and you're the guys making
Speaker 2: twenty footer and you're missing your five footer. There's nothing
Speaker 2: more frustrating when you look at.
Speaker 1: Your game and where it's at. What are you doing,
Speaker 1: like what are you looking at to try and get
Speaker 1: your to the next level, like get where you're locked
Speaker 1: in every major every year type level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that, like the consistency I've
Speaker 2: had the last couple of years has been pretty good.
Speaker 2: I've had like brief stretches of a couple of months
Speaker 2: where I just didn't quite play well, and it kind
Speaker 2: of kept me out from getting out getting into like
Speaker 2: the top thirty I think at the end of the year.
Speaker 2: So I've been doing a lot of great. I mean,
Speaker 2: I've my body's been feeling really great over the last
Speaker 2: two years. I kind of had a back issue like
Speaker 2: three years ago that kind of was tough for about
Speaker 2: six seven months. So being healthy is like number one
Speaker 2: priority for me in this stage of life. And keeping
Speaker 2: my swing speed kind of at least where it's at,
Speaker 2: not declining as kind of a big goal. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm just in that spot where I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: a lot more comfortable, like in positions, being in final
Speaker 2: groups and all that stuff. So it's just kind of
Speaker 2: learning through that process of how to, like I feel like,
Speaker 2: especially the last like four or five months, I've been
Speaker 2: in the final group probably four or five times, maybe
Speaker 2: last three or four times, maybe going to Sunday or Saturday,
Speaker 2: and just haven't quite played as well as I had
Speaker 2: the previous a few days and just kind of got
Speaker 2: my own way and just playing a little too conservatively.
Speaker 2: So I think just being able to learn from those
Speaker 2: and being freed up to man when you're the guys
Speaker 2: who win typically man, they're playing the same way Sunday
Speaker 2: as they did on like a Friday, unless it's like
Speaker 2: a major where you have to be a little more conservative,
Speaker 2: but just kind of keeping the you know, petal on
Speaker 2: the metal. Something I'm still trying to learn. You know,
Speaker 2: there's certain guys that I feel like they get in
Speaker 2: the hunt and they're just like killers. Like Max Homa,
Speaker 2: Like he's always been that guy, you know, where it's
Speaker 2: like he gets toward the lead and he just like
Speaker 2: it's it's like a fuel that just accelerates. And like
Speaker 2: a guy like Nick Taylor even like you know, he
Speaker 2: gets around the lead and he's you know, obviously like
Speaker 2: great amateur. He won a million times and and he
Speaker 2: has that instinct and I'm trying to still learn that instinct.
Speaker 2: I've been very consistent, but I think having that instinct
Speaker 2: of like having to get you know, pushing through and
Speaker 2: winning is something I'm trying to learn.
Speaker 1: It's a weird thing about golf where I think, like
Speaker 1: most people, I don't think like what you're talking about
Speaker 1: with Taylor and Homa is a natural thing or a
Speaker 1: normal thing. I think that's like kind of a where
Speaker 1: you get that mentality like it's it's something I'm like
Speaker 1: fascinated about with golf, is like how you immediately you
Speaker 1: have success and then it's like I need to protect
Speaker 1: this versus just doing what you're doing. I had a
Speaker 1: round last year. I don't have many good rounds anymore.
Speaker 1: It's like few and far between. But I got it
Speaker 1: going and I was like through twelve holes and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I haven't made a bogie yet, I haven't had a
Speaker 1: clean card in forever. And I start and then sure enough,
Speaker 1: like I'm thinking about the clean card and it's like
Speaker 1: the rest of the way in it's like a grind
Speaker 1: of up and downs to keep that because that's what
Speaker 1: became my thought versus like just doing what I did
Speaker 1: the first twelve holes.
Speaker 2: You know, well, yeah, it's like the simple psychology thing.
Speaker 2: It's like loss of version. Right when you feel like
Speaker 2: you have something, you don't want to lose it, which
Speaker 2: is bizarre because it's like even like if you know
Speaker 2: you're in a casino and you're getting hot, most times
Speaker 2: people are trying to back down their bets, like no,
Speaker 2: that's when you need a press. It's like you're you're
Speaker 2: on a heater, like you need to press it's that
Speaker 2: weird protective mechanism we have in our It's like a
Speaker 2: normal human trait that, yeah, it's like we're we don't
Speaker 2: want to lose what we've had. But that's so scary
Speaker 2: and golf because it's like, dude, you don't have anything
Speaker 2: until the tournament's over, so you this is a terrible
Speaker 2: mindset to be in, and especially on the PGA tour,
Speaker 2: Like I've had to literally try to trick my mind
Speaker 2: because I'm like at the end of a tournamount of Sunday,
Speaker 2: like if I make a bogie and I say I'm
Speaker 2: in like the top fifteen or the strokes really count.
Speaker 2: If I make a bogie, it might cost me forty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars just looking at money wise, but if I
Speaker 2: make a birdie, it's gonna I'm gonna make one hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty thousand dollars. So it's like, do you not
Speaker 2: realize that going for birdies, like the upside is so
Speaker 2: much higher than the downside risk, Like it's weird how
Speaker 2: you you don't naturally think that way, but it's like
Speaker 2: that's the reality, and so sometimes you's got to be like, dude,
Speaker 2: get over trying to you know, not make mistakes and
Speaker 2: go for it, you know, because that's how that's I mean,
Speaker 2: all the top guys, it's their mindset.
Speaker 1: Do you have like a sequence, like an event, like
Speaker 1: a small sequence that you like think about a lot,
Speaker 1: like where something went completely one way, but like since
Speaker 1: then it was a really valuable learning experience.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've had a ton of those, like
Speaker 2: just in small doses. But I think there's like a
Speaker 2: framework of thinking that I try to go back to.
Speaker 2: It's like this this thing called like fear setting. I
Speaker 2: don't know, it's kind of a random thing, but like
Speaker 2: as golfers, like you have a fear of failing, right,
Speaker 2: Like this is a constant thing, like missing a cut
Speaker 2: or not playing well in a big event or whatever.
Speaker 2: And sometimes like that fear of playing bad or something
Speaker 2: like can overwhelm your ability, you know, it kind of
Speaker 2: distracts you from doing the things you got to do
Speaker 2: to play well. But like I try to go back
Speaker 2: and think about all the times I have missed the
Speaker 2: cut or I have failed in the big moments and
Speaker 2: all that stuff, and go like work your way through
Speaker 2: the outcome of like what was the what was the
Speaker 2: worst outcome of that or how you know, and you
Speaker 2: think back and you're like, oh, there's just a tournament.
Speaker 2: I hardly even remember those times I failed. It really
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. But like in your mind, you can make
Speaker 2: these moments become like so big and it's like, dude,
Speaker 2: it's just not a tournament. It's not going to change
Speaker 2: your career, your life. And so to like to do
Speaker 2: kind of this that fear setting thing. I think it's
Speaker 2: like a Tim Ferriss thing, and he talks about like
Speaker 2: doing like just play out like what's the worst case
Speaker 2: scenario with this happening. And then after you know that,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, it's not that bad, you know, and
Speaker 2: I can get through it and I can take on
Speaker 2: risk and I can fail, and it's hey, I've had
Speaker 2: enough tournaments now where I've like I've had failures and
Speaker 2: I've had successes, so I kind of know like, hey,
Speaker 2: they're both. It's fine.
Speaker 1: I Mean, one of the things that you'd lose if
Speaker 1: if you got it off season is the idea of like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know there's a tournament next week. Yep, what are
Speaker 1: your five, say, five favorite stops on tour?
Speaker 2: I mean, this week's probably the best course on tour
Speaker 2: I'd say hands down. I mean, there's what maybe one
Speaker 2: hazard one hazard on the golf course and it's literally
Speaker 2: just right in front of you. It's just as good
Speaker 2: as it gets. I'd say here Memorial is probably one
Speaker 2: of the best on tour. And then I mean Charles
Speaker 2: Schwab For me, I just love that course. It fits
Speaker 2: me really well. And I mean these are not counting
Speaker 2: the majors. Obviously, the majors are obviously number you know,
Speaker 2: the top, and then after that, I don't know, those
Speaker 2: are kind of my top three. That's fine. I have
Speaker 2: a number of mind, I got a solid top three
Speaker 2: for sure. And then yeah, I mean there's a lot
Speaker 2: of great urnaments that treat you really well. And the
Speaker 2: courses are I mean Travelers is a really fun event.
Speaker 2: I love that course, but it's not like an elite course.
Speaker 2: It's a fun course.
Speaker 1: Do you have do you set goals or you goal setter?
Speaker 1: Do you have any goals for the h you know, your.
Speaker 2: Career And no, I'm very anti goals. I tried doing that.
Speaker 2: It just was disappointing. So I just I never I
Speaker 2: don't know, I've just never liked goals, Like it's just
Speaker 2: one of those things in golf is like the quickest
Speaker 2: way of disappointments having high expectations or like setting goals
Speaker 2: like in life in general, like the secret to happiness
Speaker 2: is low expectations. Right, So I'm more like, man, if
Speaker 2: I do just the day to day things, right, if
Speaker 2: I'm taking care of my body, if I'm taking care
Speaker 2: of my you know, my mental I guess, like my
Speaker 2: off the course stuff, having good relationship with my wife,
Speaker 2: my kid, like all these little things that like build
Speaker 2: on day day to day that like, if I take
Speaker 2: care of those little things, like the results are going
Speaker 2: to be they're gonna be good, you know, And so
Speaker 2: I don't need to worry about trying to achieve certain things.
Speaker 2: That's just never been my thing.
Speaker 1: Awesome. I appreciate the time you got a golf tournament.
Speaker 1: You gotta go do some practice rounds and stuff. But
Speaker 1: I appreciate the time everybody can find you on social
Speaker 1: media and hopefully you'll have some new fans. We'll go
Speaker 1: to figure out what Andrew Putnam fans would be called,
Speaker 1: you know, is their name?
Speaker 2: I don't know. My wife likes Team Putnam. That's kind
Speaker 2: of our ill go to line, but.
Speaker 1: It might be too close to team you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: shout that that's not good all right?
Speaker 2: Thanks Andrew Cool, Thanks Amy.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another edition of the Frida
Speaker 1: Egg podcast, and thank you to Matt Rush's for the edit.
Speaker 1: Thank you Matt. As a quick reminder, if you have
Speaker 1: not checked it out, Club TFE is humming. This last
Speaker 1: week we posted a bunch of stuff on George Thomas
Speaker 1: in different intricacies. Garrett's been writing a ton in Club TFE.
Speaker 1: We've been getting a lot of great feedback about our
Speaker 1: weekly course write ups as well as the other content.
Speaker 1: And this week we have the second version of our
Speaker 1: virtual hangout, so it's basically like a Q and A
Speaker 1: kind of almost like a Q and a podcast. We're
Speaker 1: kicking that off this week. If you're interested in Club TFE,
Speaker 1: it's one hundred and twenty dollars for the year and
Speaker 1: that you can find out more about it at the
Speaker 1: Friday dot com slash membership. Thanks and we will be
Speaker 1: back later this week with another edition of the podcast.