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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Daybreak Weekend, our global look at the

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Speaker 1: top stories in the coming week from our Daybreak anchors

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Speaker 1: all around the world. Straight ahead on the program. But

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Speaker 1: holidays are over, so how did the nation's retailers fare.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tom Busby in New York.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephen Caron and London, who are asking if peliscal

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Speaker 2: and business leaders can rebuild trust at this year's Wild

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Speaker 2: Economic Forum in Davos.

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Speaker 3: I'm Brian Curtis in Hong Kong. With Taiwan election results looming,

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Speaker 3: we look at Taiwan Semiconductor at delegate time in the

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Speaker 3: chip industry.

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Speaker 4: I'm Kavid Lyons in Washington, where we're looking ahead to

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Speaker 4: the Iowa Caucasus.

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Speaker 5: That's all straight ahead on Bloomberg Daybreak Weekend. The business

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Speaker 5: news you need to wrap up your week, Available on Apple, Spotify,

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Speaker 5: the Bloomberg Business Appen everywhere you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Good day to you. I'm Tom Busby. We begin today's

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Speaker 1: program with a look at the strength of the US

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Speaker 1: consumer through the lens of the holidays and fourth quarter

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Speaker 1: retail sales, and we take a peek at the year ahead.

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Speaker 1: We're joined today by Poonham Goyle, Senior retail analysts for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence and Molly Smith, Bloomberg News Economy editor. Thank

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Speaker 1: you both for being here. Poonam. It's still a little early,

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Speaker 1: but what we've heard so far about retail sales and

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Speaker 1: December's numbers. We know the National Retail Federation says sales

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Speaker 1: last month up three percent five percent for all of

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Speaker 1: last year. Master cards spending pulse an increase of three

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Speaker 1: point one not spectacular, but would you say pretty solid?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I'd say, you know, the holiday season ring in

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Speaker 6: pretty solid results. In fact, a number that you didn't

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Speaker 6: cite was the Adobe number where they came out with

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Speaker 6: also a slight increase, which suggests that online sales also

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Speaker 6: did well. So we think holiday overall did do well

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Speaker 6: and a large part of that was the strength that

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Speaker 6: we saw in November versus December. So it was a

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Speaker 6: great start to holiday, It ended okay and led the

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Speaker 6: season to be higher than what most expected.

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Speaker 1: And Molly, I'm going to ask you about what that

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Speaker 1: means for the consumer. We have a very strong labor market, right,

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Speaker 1: unemployment holding steady just three point seven percent last month.

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Speaker 1: What appears to be a soft landing. What does it

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Speaker 1: look like?

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Speaker 7: I think it's it's maybe a little bit more complicated

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Speaker 7: than that that the jobs report on the surface that

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Speaker 7: we got for the month of December, well, it's great

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Speaker 7: from the headline number in terms of the payrolls, the

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Speaker 7: unemployment figure that you cited, wage growth, but there are

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Speaker 7: a few other things under the surface, like duration of

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Speaker 7: unemployment growing longer, and a few other caveats that made

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Speaker 7: this maybe just not as strong as you might expect.

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Speaker 7: And it's kind of contributing then to what we're expecting

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Speaker 7: to be a slowdown in consumer spending this year. I

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Speaker 7: know we've been calling for that for a while. There

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Speaker 7: have been people who would have expected us to have

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Speaker 7: a recession already, Like you said, look like that's probably

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Speaker 7: not going to happen, But there has just been this

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Speaker 7: really outsize strength and consumer spending. Given all of these

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Speaker 7: this other macro backdrop, that you would expected consumer spending

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Speaker 7: to taper off by now. And I think the cumulative

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Speaker 7: effect of the inflation that we've had for the last

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Speaker 7: year and a half plus now, higher borrowing costs and

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Speaker 7: how much longer they're going to stay this elevated level,

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Speaker 7: is probably going to lead to consumer spend tapering off

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Speaker 7: in this year, and you talked.

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Speaker 1: About the higher borrowing costs. We're consumer spending. We're still spending,

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Speaker 1: but it looks like we're charging more more than ever before.

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Speaker 7: There is Yeah, definitely has been a pickup in credit

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Speaker 7: card balances. I think important though to keep that in

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Speaker 7: the context of deposits, and those are still pretty high,

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Speaker 7: so when you look at card balances to deposits, it's

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Speaker 7: not as startling of a rise as if you were

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Speaker 7: to just look at card balances in an absolute dollar amount.

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Speaker 7: So I think that's important to remember. And when we

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Speaker 7: talk about the consumer, obviously like that's you know, millions

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Speaker 7: and millions of people, there's obviously a lot of different

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Speaker 7: income brackets within that, a lot of different spending propensities.

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Speaker 7: So important to keep in mind that this isn't really

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Speaker 7: a broad, you know, decline in spending power. It's really

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Speaker 7: more affecting consumers at the lower end the most as

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Speaker 7: you would expect, and higher end, you know, higher income

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Speaker 7: earners are still really propping up a lot of the

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Speaker 7: aggregate numbers.

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Speaker 8: Poon let's starn to you.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of the retailers that really did

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Speaker 1: benefit no matter who the shoppers are, high end low end.

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Speaker 1: We heard from Abercrombie and Fitch, Lulu, Lemon, American Eagle,

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Speaker 1: all reporting strong sales and strong outlooks. Who else have

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Speaker 1: you heard from?

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Speaker 6: Well, those are the few that we've heard from, and

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Speaker 6: we'll hear from more as a report earning, but we

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Speaker 6: did see strength and the Amazon numbers based on our

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Speaker 6: own channel checks and what we're hearing, so we do

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Speaker 6: think that's another retailer or web giant that will continue

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Speaker 6: to take share, not just for the holiday but even

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Speaker 6: as we move into twenty twenty four, as spending just

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Speaker 6: shifts more online. Broadly speaking, the one interesting thing that

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Speaker 6: I will call out, and just to piggyback on Molly's

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Speaker 6: comments on the credit card, you know, part of the

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Speaker 6: reason that we saw such strength in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 6: was the rise of BNPL, which is buy now, pay later,

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Speaker 6: and in fact, from data that we're seeing in four

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Speaker 6: q BNPL spending online was up fourteen percent year every year,

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Speaker 6: and that's based on Adobe's estimate. So as consumers leverage

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Speaker 6: this new payment option and really use that to stretch

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Speaker 6: their wallets, we'll probably continue to see more of that

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Speaker 6: heading into twenty twenty four too.

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Speaker 1: And you talked about more use by the lower end consumer.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the lower and consumer and where we

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Speaker 1: see some of the big giants like Walmart, Target, Coals

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Speaker 1: another big discounter. What did you see this past season

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Speaker 1: and what do you see ahead Poonam for those big retailers.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I think the big retailers, you know, it's a

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Speaker 6: double edged sword for them because they are getting spend

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Speaker 6: from people that are trading down or people that want

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Speaker 6: to stretch their dollars further. They're seeing that spend come through,

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Speaker 6: but then at the same time they're also ground with

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Speaker 6: just consumers that don't have enough to spend and also deflation. Right,

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Speaker 6: we saw deflation kick in at least in a lot

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Speaker 6: of the consumables later in the year. So because of that,

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Speaker 6: you're seeing some pressure on their top line, which we

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Speaker 6: think could continue into twenty twenty four, especially early twenty

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Speaker 6: twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Now, you wrote a piece, I think it came out

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Speaker 1: just last week about the challenges in retail specific to

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Speaker 1: the retail calendar. What did you tell us about that?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so it's interesting, you know, regardless of where consumer

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Speaker 6: spending shapes out to be this year, we're entering the

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Speaker 6: year with fewer shopping days between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and

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Speaker 6: that's five fewer shopping days. So that means that consumers

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Speaker 6: are going to have to consolidate their purchases in a

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Speaker 6: shorter window, and there's fewer days for retailers to try

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Speaker 6: to sell them more. That's a negative. The other negative

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Speaker 6: is coming up shortly, which is Easter. Easter this year

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Speaker 6: falls on March thirty first, versus later in April in

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Speaker 6: years past, so that means temperatures will be cooler. It

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Speaker 6: means that consumers maybe spending a little less. Historically, when

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Speaker 6: Easter has come earlier, it has impacted sales of food

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Speaker 6: and clothing, and that could occur again this year.

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Speaker 1: Molly, where do you see the calendar falling in for

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Speaker 1: consumer spending?

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Speaker 7: I just always have to like smile a little because,

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Speaker 7: you know, we always say, like the weather one way

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Speaker 7: or the other seems to play a role in this.

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Speaker 7: You know, it was like two cold people didn't shop,

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Speaker 7: it was two warm people wanted to play outside and

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Speaker 7: didn't shop. So there's always some kind of factor and

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Speaker 7: you know, who the heck knows, so it'll it'll play

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Speaker 7: out into time. That's certainly more Punam's specialty than mine

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Speaker 7: to forecast how the weather will factor into spending patterns.

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Speaker 7: But you know, she raised an interesting point though about

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Speaker 7: how retailers have been seeing deflation for a few months,

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Speaker 7: and that was something that when we just got the

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Speaker 7: Consumer Price Index report last week that was for the

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Speaker 7: month of December, really important moment here where the good sector,

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Speaker 7: you know, this is where all of like the purchases

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Speaker 7: of stuff like cars, furniture, clothing, things of that nature,

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Speaker 7: that sector has been showing price declines, had been showing

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Speaker 7: price declined, sorry, for six months, and that unexpectedly stopped

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Speaker 7: in December. That was a that's a really key potential

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Speaker 7: turning point because this has been in the broader context

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Speaker 7: of where is inflation going? The good sector has been

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Speaker 7: driving so much of the disinflation that we've been seeing

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Speaker 7: in recent months, and now it's kind of raising some questions,

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Speaker 7: is that running out of steam? How much more can

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Speaker 7: the supply side continue to help? So that's going to

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Speaker 7: be a really key question going forward for retailers and

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Speaker 7: for the economy.

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Speaker 1: Unless you're selling houses, of course.

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Speaker 7: Yes still pretty far. Insurance yes still both of those

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Speaker 7: also still pretty expensive, so also have not really turned

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Speaker 7: out to be the bigger disinflation story that you would

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Speaker 7: have hoped to see in rents. So far those are

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Speaker 7: still pretty expensive.

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Speaker 1: Now, Molly, one more thing I want to ask you

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Speaker 1: and Poonum, it looks excuse me, it looks like we're

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Speaker 1: not going to see an interest rate cut anytime soon,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe according to the FED, back half of the year,

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Speaker 1: and that will certainly impact borrowing costs. How do you

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Speaker 1: think that will help consumers?

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Speaker 7: Well, I think right now, you know, the bets are

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Speaker 7: still kind of coalescing around the earliest being for a

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Speaker 7: March reduction, which FED officials have pushed back on that

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Speaker 7: pretty strongly. But I mean, it's it's still really tough

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Speaker 7: to tell when that is going to come. I mean,

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Speaker 7: I don't think the you know, the reports that we

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Speaker 7: were just talking about, the CPI that we just got,

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Speaker 7: or retail sales coming up, those aren't going to really

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Speaker 7: you know, move the needle in terms of where that's

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Speaker 7: where when that cut's going to happen. But for I mean,

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Speaker 7: consumers can definitely count on borrowing costs coming down this year.

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Speaker 7: It's more a question just of when rather than if.

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Speaker 1: And Poonam final thoughts.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And I'd say if both borrowing boss do come down,

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Speaker 6: which they are likely too. That is on the note like,

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Speaker 6: it would be positive for consumer spending. Right, Just the

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Speaker 6: idea of boring costs coming down and the rates coming

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Speaker 6: down would be positive to consumer spending this year.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's great. Well, our thanks to Punham Goyle, She's

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Speaker 1: senior retail analyst from Bloomberg Intelligence, and Molly Smith, Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: News Economy editor. Coming up on Bloomberg day Break Weekend,

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Speaker 1: It's that time of year for the World Economic Forum

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Speaker 1: in Davos, Switzerland. Who's going and what's on the agenda.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tom Busby and this is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Daybreak Weekend, our global look ahead at the top stories

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Speaker 1: for investors in the coming week. I'm Tom Busby in

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Speaker 1: New York. Up later in our program, the Iowa Coxes

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Speaker 1: begin jump starting the Republican presidential nominating race. But first,

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Speaker 1: the globe's political, corporate, and cultural elite gathering in a

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Speaker 1: tiny alpine village in Switzerland for the World Economic Forum.

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Speaker 1: For a look at what to expect, we turned to

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Speaker 1: Stephen Carroll in London.

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Speaker 2: Tom, It's the annual pilgrimage to Davos, for the event

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Speaker 2: that's over the year has been dubbed everything from globalist

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Speaker 2: Glastonbury to speed dating for CEOs. This year's World Economic

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Speaker 2: Forum will be attended by more than twenty seven hundred

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Speaker 2: political and business leaders, including the Chinese Premier League Chung Francis,

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Speaker 2: Emmanuel Macron, the EU Commission President our Slavanda Line, and

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Speaker 2: the Israeli President Isaac Hertzog. There's plenty to discuss on

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Speaker 2: the geopolitical front, but also the hundreds of CEOs attending

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Speaker 2: will be talking about economic issues as well as new

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Speaker 2: technologies and climate change. Will have full coverage across Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Radio and television throughout the event. Our editor at large,

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Speaker 2: Francin and Lacort, will be there speaking to some of

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Speaker 2: the big names. And she's with me now, fran This is,

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Speaker 2: of course, in theory an economic event, but our economic

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Speaker 2: issues this year in Davos being overshadowed by things like

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Speaker 2: the wars in the Middle East and in Ukraine.

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Speaker 9: One hundred percent. I think there are mainly three themes,

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Speaker 9: and I know it's always mean. The themes that the

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Speaker 9: World Economic Form pick are always I guess the you know,

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Speaker 9: building too. We make jokes about it. Because some of

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Speaker 9: the predictions don't end up actually being the right ones.

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Speaker 9: But rebuilding trust. I think there are probably focused on

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Speaker 9: three things. It is monetary, so it's what's happening with

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Speaker 9: interest rates, Do we have a big pivot from central banks?

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Speaker 9: What does to inflation and therefore does that help and

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Speaker 9: support governments and companies. Remember twenty twenty three was meant

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Speaker 9: to be the wash out year. We started the year

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Speaker 9: by saying companies will go bus countries will get into

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Speaker 9: very very large debt situations, and it hasn't really played

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Speaker 9: out yet. The second thing, the World Economic Form participants.

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Speaker 9: I think we'll really focus on is AI and we're

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Speaker 9: expecting number of papers from the World Economic Forum to

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Speaker 9: trying to figure out exactly how you protect yourself for disinformation,

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Speaker 9: for fake news, especially in an election year. And now

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Speaker 9: I'm not only talking about the US. We have the

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Speaker 9: European Parliament. We have I think over fifty percent of

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Speaker 9: world GDP going to the poll, so a lot of

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Speaker 9: the folks will be on that. And then third one

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Speaker 9: one hundred percent will be geopolitics. So we have two

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Speaker 9: active wars Ukraine, the one between Israel and Hamas, and

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Speaker 9: there's you know, concerns that, of course, the Middle East

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Speaker 9: tensions spill over, so I think a lot of the

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Speaker 9: sessions and the conversations will be around that and what

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Speaker 9: it means for the world economy.

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Speaker 2: Now, every year of the World's Economic Forum publishers, it's Global

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Speaker 2: Risks reports. Top of the list you mentioned, they're misinformation

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Speaker 2: and disinformation. This year you've been speaking to the forums

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Speaker 2: Managing director Sadi is Ahiti about this. Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 10: In the two year timeframe, miss and disinformation number one risk.

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Speaker 10: So we put together the views of fifteen hundred experts

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Speaker 10: and that's what they're most worried about, very closely followed

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Speaker 10: by extreme weather, societal polarization, inflation. These are some of

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Speaker 10: the topics that are top of mind. But ten years out,

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Speaker 10: four top risks all about the environment, including for the

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Speaker 10: first time crossing tipping points for the Earth systems. That's

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Speaker 10: something that is top of mind, and I think the

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Speaker 10: predictions that that could happen in ten years and how

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Speaker 10: severe that could be.

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Speaker 9: Deeply concerning disinformation, fake news is extremely worrying. In an

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Speaker 9: election year, we have a large percentage of world GDP

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Speaker 9: actually going to the polls this year, how worried are

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Speaker 9: you about the US election?

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Speaker 10: I mean, depending on how you count it, major economies

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Speaker 10: with large populations, India, the US are going into these elections.

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Speaker 10: And what we found is that at each country level,

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Speaker 10: in addition to the global risk around miss and disinformation,

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Speaker 10: it's usually ranked very high among the top five risks

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Speaker 10: around the world, as is concerns about ourn economic downturn.

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Speaker 10: So what we're thinking is when these two things come together,

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Speaker 10: the economic hardship being faced by many people and the

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Speaker 10: rise of synthetic content, combined with going into an election

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Speaker 10: year where people get to make decisions about who's going

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Speaker 10: to be leading them, that together can be a very

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Speaker 10: potent mix. And in particular, if some of those views

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Speaker 10: start spilling over into very different perceptions of reality when

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Speaker 10: it comes to health, when it comes to what people

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Speaker 10: are thinking about education, what people think about specific people,

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Speaker 10: who then becomes the owner of the truth?

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Speaker 9: And again, do you have a breakdown of Actually this

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Speaker 9: misinformation is its state actors, and Russia has been involved

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Speaker 9: in the past in US elections.

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Speaker 10: So we're seeing a concern that this could be become

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Speaker 10: much more pervasive. To some extent, it's almost easier to

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Speaker 10: track some of that state sponsored disinformation and misinformation. But

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Speaker 10: now at some point that starts spilling over and it

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Speaker 10: becomes very difficult to track, especially without tracking systems, water

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Speaker 10: marking systems, and especially without the public being well educated

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Speaker 10: about the risks of synthetic content and especially when that

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Speaker 10: is fake news.

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Speaker 9: Does that have a clear impact on the economy, As

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Speaker 9: I guess, chief executives don't want to spend because they

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Speaker 9: don't know what pans out in the next twelve months.

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Speaker 10: So there's a lot of economic uncertainty. We're seeing a

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Speaker 10: risk of the lack of economic opportunity, we're seeing inflation

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Speaker 10: in the top ten or we're seeing a lot of

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Speaker 10: concerns around what exactly happens. And that's because of two

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Speaker 10: different situations. One is, of course, there continues to be

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Speaker 10: uncertainty as to what the policy outlook will be. Yes,

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Speaker 10: we are starting to tend towards a softer landing, but

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Speaker 10: at the same time, I think there are new pressures

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Speaker 10: coming in, supply side pressures that are coming in. There's

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Speaker 10: geopolitical risks out there and that may change what happens

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Speaker 10: over the course of the coming year. And then there's

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Speaker 10: a longer term economic risk and that has a lot

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Speaker 10: more to do with the divergence between developed and developing economies,

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Speaker 10: and that also has a lot to do with the

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Speaker 10: divergence between high income people and low income people across

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Speaker 10: all countries.

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Speaker 2: That is the World's Economic Forums. Sadiaz Ahdi, managing director there,

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Speaker 2: speaking to Francine Lack where Francine is still with us Fan.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned there the fact that it's a big election

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Speaker 2: year globally, with all those different elections happening. Does that

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Speaker 2: make the conversations in Davos different if some of those

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Speaker 2: world leaders who are going to be attending, we're also

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Speaker 2: going to be face the electors.

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Speaker 9: I think so. I think if you look at the

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Speaker 9: world economy and what we've been speaking with a number

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Speaker 9: of participants in the markets, is that actually an election year,

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Speaker 9: probably the incumbent will spend a lot more So if

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Speaker 9: you look at the economy, it's probably going to be

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Speaker 9: more resilient this year had we not had elections, because

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Speaker 9: no one wants to go into an election with a

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Speaker 9: week economy.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 9: I know it's a very simplistic way of looking at it,

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Speaker 9: but it's probably something that gives us a little bit

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Speaker 9: of support for the outlook for a lot of these countries.

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Speaker 9: Longer term, it's a really question mark about what happens.

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Speaker 9: So some of the policies in place. It can be

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Speaker 9: here in the UK, it could of course be the

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Speaker 9: US which changes everything in our relationship with China, climate change,

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Speaker 9: some of the support that a potential for example, President

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Speaker 9: Trump would give to companies. But if you also listened

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Speaker 9: to what Zadia was saying about the top ten risks,

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Speaker 9: and I don't think we should underestimate this Stephen, is

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Speaker 9: that if you look at the two year horizon, so

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Speaker 9: people that they surveyed worry about misinformation, extreme weather events,

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Speaker 9: social paroles, cybersecurity. Ten years, it's critical changes to earth systems, bidiversity,

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Speaker 9: extreme weather. But if you worry about what's happening in

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Speaker 9: the next two years, and if you have bigger concerns

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Speaker 9: that are different ten years, then you don't address the

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Speaker 9: longer term concerns. So there's also a real worry of

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Speaker 9: everyone splitting and not really get anything done to managing

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Speaker 9: the longer term risks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's part of the sort of dilemma that

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Speaker 2: faces Davos every year is that often there are big

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Speaker 2: long term issues that need to be talked about, but

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Speaker 2: everyone's much more focused on what's happening in the coming

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Speaker 2: months or the coming weeks as well. Much is made

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Speaker 2: every year of the politicians who do and don't go

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Speaker 2: to the World Economic Forum. Here in the UK, we

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Speaker 2: had the opposition labor leader Career Starmer being criticized for

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Speaker 2: attending last year. Is it a bad look any year?

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Speaker 2: What we're talking about rebuilding trust. If you go to

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Speaker 2: Davos or if you don't go, I.

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Speaker 9: Think it depends. I think it depends on cultural sensitivities

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Speaker 9: of the country. I think if you're an emerging economy,

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Speaker 9: showing up in Davos and getting deals done on trade

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Speaker 9: is a good thing. If you're Rishie Sunac and you're

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Speaker 9: married to a billionaire, it's probably not a good look,

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Speaker 9: which is why he stayed away last year. He's not

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Speaker 9: expected to show up this year as well. If you're

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Speaker 9: you know, mister Zelenski, President of Ukraine, then it probably

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Speaker 9: would be a good look, whether it's by video or

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Speaker 9: in person, to show up to make sure that people

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Speaker 9: don't forget Ukraine. So I think it's very personal and

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Speaker 9: whether you show up or not really gives you a

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Speaker 9: glimpse actually of what your country is facing or your

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Speaker 9: company is facing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm looking forward to hearing the answers to those

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Speaker 2: questions as well. Our editor at large, Fancy and Laqua

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Speaker 2: full coverage from the World Economic Forum in Davos throughout

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Speaker 2: the week. Here a call across Bloomberg Radio, television, and

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Speaker 2: of course online on the terminal as well. I'm Stephen

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Speaker 2: Carolyn London. You can catch us every weekday morning here

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Speaker 2: for Bloomberg Daybreak here at beginning at six am in

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Speaker 2: London and one am on Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: Tom, thank you, Steven, and coming up here on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: day Break weekend, we take a look at the geopolitical

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Speaker 1: machinations surrounding the business of computer chip manufacturing. I'm Tom Busby,

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Speaker 1: and this is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg day Break Weekend,

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Speaker 1: our global look ahead at the top stories for investors

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Speaker 1: in the coming week. I'm Tom Busby in New York.

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Speaker 1: The incredibly complex, high stakes business of making semiconductors has

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Speaker 1: always been a battle of corporate giants. Now it's also

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Speaker 1: a race among governments, especially between China, the US and Taiwan,

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Speaker 1: with the Taiwan election now underway, an event closely watched

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Speaker 1: by China, we take a look at the chip industry

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Speaker 1: and how the geopolitics play out.

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Speaker 3: Tom will know the full results of the Taiwan election shortly.

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Speaker 3: In the meantime, we thought it was a good time

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Speaker 3: to take a look at the business climate on the island,

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Speaker 3: especially through the prism of TSMC. Taiwan Semi is arguably

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Speaker 3: one of the most important companies in the world and

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Speaker 3: sits at the nexus of the relationship among the US,

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Speaker 3: China and Taiwan. Joining US now to look at TSMC

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Speaker 3: and possibly the up and coming challenge from Huawei Technologies

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Speaker 3: is Bloomberg's savov Tech editor here in Hong Kong, so Vlad.

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Speaker 3: Recently we learned that Huawei Technology's latest laptop was running

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Speaker 3: on a chip made by TSMC. This was a five

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Speaker 3: nanimeter chip and it was actually made by TSMC instead

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Speaker 3: of Huawei, and that seemed to head off some of

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Speaker 3: the talk about a Chinese technological breakthrough. How much did

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Speaker 3: that revelation sort of mean in lowering the temperature in

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Speaker 3: the relationship between US and China and chips.

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Speaker 11: Well, a good way to think about it is if

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Speaker 11: it wasn't the case, if it was Huawei actually making

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Speaker 11: five and animated chips. This would be the story we're

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Speaker 11: we're talking about for the inside January. National Security Adviser

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Speaker 11: Jake Sullivan would have dropped everything else. He's got a

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Speaker 11: very busy agenda, but he would have dropped everything else

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Speaker 11: because this would have been a breakthrough that would have

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Speaker 11: been entirely unforeseen. When you think about the sanctions that

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Speaker 11: the US is imposed on Chinese chip makers, this was

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Speaker 11: what they were trying to prevent, so you can say

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Speaker 11: they've been effective. But the reason we're talking about this

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Speaker 11: in the first place is because of Huawei seven nanimeter,

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Speaker 11: a generation behind breakthrough that happened in August last year

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Speaker 11: that was also unforeseen and unexpected.

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Speaker 8: It's worth bearing in mind again.

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Speaker 11: That this chip that Huawei would have stuck part from

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Speaker 11: TSMC way back in twenty twenty is still one or

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Speaker 11: two generations ahead of what Huawei is capable of doing.

435
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 11: Where China and manufacturers such a Smick, which is Huawe's

436
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 11: domestic partner, our positioned at the moment. So what we

437
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:36,120
Speaker 11: can really say is that Huawei is certainly trying. There

438
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 11: are a number of voices, including a video one of

439
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 11: TSMC's biggest customers that say that Huawei and a whole

440
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 11: bunch of China mainline startups are going to be legitimate competitors.

441
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 11: But we haven't seen the evidence this would have been

442
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 11: it it didn't happen.

443
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 3: Let me ask a question that may sound political, but

444
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,479
Speaker 3: it's not really. The sanctions that are in place by

445
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 3: the US, is this slowing down the develop and Bismic

446
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 3: and by Juawei and others, or in a sense, is

447
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 3: it actually speeding it up because now in China domestically

448
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 3: they know they need this.

449
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 11: Well, absolutely, it's political, but I keep saying every tech

450
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 11: story nowadays a political story. Every political story has attach angle,

451
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 11: So of course it is. I think the answer is

452
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 11: yes to both aspects of your question. It has categorically

453
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 11: slowed down Chinese domestic chip making. You have these key

454
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 11: machines which are bus sized and they cost hundreds of

455
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 11: thousands millions of dollars each made by ASML in the Netherlands.

456
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 11: Because of US and Dutch relations, SMO doesn't ship those

457
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 11: super advanced machines into China. They are the effectively the

458
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 11: gateway to get into five ninimeters and beyond. TSMC has

459
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 11: a bunch of them, is spent tens of billions of

460
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 11: dollars acquiring them. They can't get into China without them.

461
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 11: China has to invent effectively alternative methods to get to

462
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 11: those super advice.

463
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 8: On manufacturing techniques.

464
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 11: Now that being said again to the latter aspect of

465
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 11: your question, because China, Beijing, its government sees no breakthrough,

466
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 11: no path to coming to terms and acquiring those machines

467
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 11: in straightforward fashion, it is pouring money resources. Like I say,

468
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 11: all these startups are effectively state back startups to again

469
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 11: invent its way out of its issue or maybe come

470
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 11: up with more inventive ways of acquiring the machines.

471
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 3: Can these companies in China catch up or will they

472
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 3: always be one or two generations behind?

473
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 11: Well, if you ask the US, they want them a

474
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 11: couple of generations behind. That's effective their entire agenda. They

475
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 11: don't want to shut down Chinese tech manufacturing altogether. They

476
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 11: have repeatedly said that it's tailored sanctions that they have

477
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 11: to prevent China's military from acquiring advanced tech. So if

478
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 11: it's two three generations behind, they're comfortable with that. Will

479
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 11: they make I mean effectively the answer to your question

480
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 11: is we'll try to make a breakthrough that nobody is expecting.

481
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 11: We saw some of that again last year from Huawei.

482
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 11: Will they repeat defeat? It's open to a member of guesswork.

483
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 8: I suppose.

484
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,959
Speaker 3: In recent days, TSMC gave us its fourth quarter revenue.

485
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 3: Some of these numbers were pretty decent. They did beat

486
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: estimates of a decline, but there's obviously a little bit

487
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: of a slow path ahead. What they said was that

488
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 3: demand from AI players offset the slower smartphone and laptop

489
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 3: chip sales. Where are we now in terms of full

490
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 3: recovery by the chip makers, including TSMC.

491
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 11: Well, one of the things that we did over the

492
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 11: course of the year on the terminal is we tracked

493
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 11: Taiwanese supplies to Apple, surely the most important tech company

494
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 11: in the world, and every month it was red figures.

495
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 11: It's TSMC, Fox gone, et cetera. It was always down

496
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 11: on the prior year's results. So just having a quarter

497
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 11: that was flat that was the same as the prior

498
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 11: year is heading in the right direction. TSMC executives, including

499
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 11: CEO cc Way, have said that they expect to rebound

500
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 11: in twenty twenty four. Canna lists, one of the market

501
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 11: research companies. They said that in the final quarter of

502
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 11: the year, the PC market and laptop market were up

503
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 11: just by a couple of percentage points, like three percent altogether,

504
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 11: But again, comparing that to double digit declines over the

505
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 11: previous several months, that's a big upside. So all of

506
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 11: it seems to point toward an improvement in consumer demand.

507
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 11: In Ventory glots that used to exist at the start

508
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 11: of the year I have gone away, so things are

509
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 11: looking up.

510
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 3: You referred earlier to the Huawei May sixty pro and

511
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 3: the fact that it had a seven nanometer processor in it.

512
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 3: What sort of progress is Smick making in selling that

513
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 3: outside of China.

514
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 11: Well, I think whatever Snick is able to make in

515
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 11: terms of manufacturing that particular chip, it's probably all going Huawei.

516
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 11: When we talk to analysts looking at teas prospects. It

517
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 11: has already taken market share back from Apple in the

518
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 11: iPhone in mainland China. One of the topics that might

519
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 11: actually intensify in importance over the course of this year

520
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 11: is the iPhone's fate in China, which has been increasingly down.

521
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 11: It was bad to begin with, it was underwhelming, and

522
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 11: then it got worse. So Huawei is reclaiming that market

523
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 11: share but when we talk to analysts, they say that

524
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 11: its limitation, if anything, on shipments is the amount of

525
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 11: chips and devices that it can produce.

526
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,479
Speaker 3: So when we look at the diminishing sales of Apple,

527
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: who's gaining the lion's share of that in China?

528
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 8: Right as I say it is Huawei.

529
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 11: Huawei is number one, But then you have Honor, which

530
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 11: is a company that spun out of Huawei in twenty twenty.

531
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 11: It's an independent company. It's pursuing an IPO probably in

532
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 11: the next year or so. That's what the company has said.

533
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 11: Shaomi has done a really good job with over the

534
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 11: past few months. The company is Vivo and Appo, who

535
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 11: used to be number one.

536
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 8: Two, three.

537
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 11: Every quarter they would shift places. We are actually struggling.

538
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 11: The answer really is that the Chinese smallphone manufacturing ecosystem

539
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 11: is kind of shifting positions show me and huilbe I

540
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 11: would say in the strongest position at the moment, and

541
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 11: even worth mentioning, Samsung, which has had a tiny share

542
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 11: of the Chinese market for a long time, is making

543
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 11: efforts making in roads as well.

544
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 3: Lad outside of China, you mentioned Samsung, what are the

545
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 3: prospects for its latest phone?

546
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 11: Well, it's promising us the first AI phone, which is

547
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 11: a promise that we've heard actually for years. At this point,

548
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 11: the whole idea of branding your phone as an AI

549
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 11: device is going to be the theme of twenty twenty

550
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,479
Speaker 11: four across every smartphone manufacturer, and I'm looking forward to

551
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 11: seeing Samsung, which is generally a serious company, try to

552
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 11: justify that label.

553
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 8: We can also look forward to Google.

554
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 11: The designer and provider of the Android software and ecosystem,

555
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 11: to do more on this front. I expect Google has

556
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 11: always been a leader in AI. One of the things

557
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 11: that came out of the Sea Yes Trade show just

558
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 11: recently is that Google and Samsung announced that they collaborating

559
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 11: on a quick sharing function, which is effectively the equivalent

560
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 11: to Apple's ed Drup.

561
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 3: All right, Lad, thanks so much for joining us. Bloomberg's

562
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 3: Lad Salvov, tech editor here in Hong Kong. I'm Brian

563
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 3: Curtis along with Doug Krisner. You can catch us every

564
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 3: weekday here for Bloomberg day Break Asia, beginning at seven

565
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 3: am in Hong Kong and six pm on Wall Street.

566
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: Tom Thank you, Brian. Coming up on Bloomberg day Break

567
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: weekend to look ahead to the Iowa Caucuses. I'm Tom

568
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: Busby and this is Bloomberg. I'm Tom Busby in New

569
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: York with your global look ahead at the top stories

570
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: for investors in the coming week. The official start to

571
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four GOP presidential nominating process, the Iowa caucuses,

572
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: begins on Monday, with just a handful of candidates on

573
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: the ballot, one of them former president and clear front

574
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: runner Donald Trump. What can we expect to see for more?

575
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: Let's add to our Bloomberg ninety nine one newsroom in

576
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: Washington and Bloomberg Sound On co host Joe Matthew and

577
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: Kaylee Lines.

578
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 4: Yeah. Tom. We spoke with Kyle Condick of Sabado's Crystal

579
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 4: Ball at the University of Virginia and started by asking him,

580
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 4: if we know Trump's probably gonna win in Iowa anyway,

581
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 4: what kind of margin matters?

582
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 12: So the Trump campaign has noted accurately that of all

583
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 12: the you know, contested, you know, non incumbent Republican Iowa

584
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 12: caucuses and over history, the biggest margin of victory is

585
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 12: twelve points, and so they're sort of setting the bar like, hey,

586
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 12: we win by more than twelve points, that's good. I

587
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 12: personally don't you know if they would buy like thirteen

588
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 12: or fourteen. I don't think that that's some sort of

589
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 12: impressive performance given what the polls are showing now, which

590
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 12: is more like he's up by like thirty points. You know,

591
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 12: what is the difference between a good performance and a

592
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 12: bad one? I don't know, maybe that's like forty percent

593
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 12: or something like that, which actually, you know, given the polls,

594
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 12: he's consistently but over fifty forty percent would seem maybe

595
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 12: not that great. So there is you know, there are

596
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 12: maybe there's maybe a higher bar for Trump to impress

597
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 12: in Iowa, but if he matches the polls, he will

598
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 12: have done that. I also think it's probably fair to

599
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 12: treat Trump differently than you would a normal non incumbent

600
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 12: race because he has sort of like a quasi incumbent,

601
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 12: given that he's the you know, he's aiming for a

602
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 12: third straight Republican presidential nomination and has already served the

603
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 12: term as president before. So I don't know where I

604
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 12: put the number necessarily, but you know, just just matching

605
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 12: or slightly exceeding that historical you know, twelve point margin

606
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 12: that that probably is not good enough to be impressive.

607
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 12: And in fact, I think would probably be disappointing if

608
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 12: it's close to that number. Again, given what the polls saying.

609
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 13: Well, of course everyone's banking on a surprise in New

610
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 13: Hampshire because it's New Hampshire. Of course it's not a

611
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 13: surprise if you're expecting it. But after Chris Christie dropped

612
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 13: out of the race, Kyle, I wonder your thoughts on

613
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 13: the impact it could have on Nikki Haley. We've seen

614
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 13: polls that show Donald Trump and Haley within single digits.

615
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 13: This would make up the different there. But we also

616
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 13: heard from Christy himself, hot Mike, she's not up for this,

617
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 13: She's going to get smoked, which Christie is right.

618
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 12: Look, I would not be surprised by Haley winning in

619
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 12: New Hampshire. I think she frankly needs to win New

620
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 12: Hampshire to really to really justify staying in the contest. Frankly,

621
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 12: you know, her home state of South Carolina votes like

622
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 12: a month after New Hampshire, and so you kind of

623
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 12: enter like a little bit of a dead period. There's

624
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 12: there are contests in Nevada in early February, but there's

625
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 12: a caucus that's actually awarding the delegates that Donald Trump's

626
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 12: probably gonna win easily, and then there's like a beauty

627
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 12: contest primary that Haley's competing and she's not competing for

628
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 12: the delegates, which she'll probably win comfortably. I don't know

629
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 12: what you really do with that. So after New Hampshire,

630
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 12: the focus will really go go to South Carolina. But again, Haley,

631
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 12: the coalition Haley is building is kind of kind of

632
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 12: centered on more moderate voters. You know, a lot of

633
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 12: independence can cross over and vote in the New Hampshire primary.

634
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 12: It probably will and probably incline to support a candidate

635
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 12: like her, particularly with Chris Crusty out of the race.

636
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 12: You know, if Haley can't win there, and let's say

637
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 12: Trump wins Iowa and New Hampshire, I don't know if

638
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 12: there's much of a rationale for anyone else to even

639
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 12: continue given that. You know, I guess at that point,

640
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 12: the only real threat that Trump would be some of

641
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 12: these legal matters he's dealing with. But he would have

642
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 12: you know, he would have basically stopped DeSantis in Iowa

643
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 12: and stopped Haley in New Hampshire. But again, I could

644
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 12: definitely see Haley winning New Hampshire. But that's not enough

645
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 12: to make this thing a real horse race. I think

646
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 12: Trump would have to lose South Carolina too in order

647
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 12: fore Weekness to go on to Super Tuesday and say, hey,

648
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 12: this thing is really opened up.

649
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 4: That's Kyle Condick from Savado's Crystal Ball and Tom, the

650
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four race is really just about to get started.

651
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: Thank you, Kaylee and Joe. And that was Bloomberg Sound

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Speaker 1: On co host Joe Matthew and Kaylee Lines reporting from

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio and coming up here on Bloomberg day Break Weekend,

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Speaker 1: we take a look at the geo political machination surrounding

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Speaker 1: the business of computer chip manufacturing. I'm Tom Busby, and

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Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg