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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am

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Speaker 1: Matt and today we're discussing extreme frugality in a culture

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Speaker 1: of excess with Liz Tims. Yeah, Joel, Liz Tims. She's

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Speaker 1: better known as Miss Frugal Woods, and she's the creator

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Speaker 1: of the award winning personal finance blog frugal Woods dot com.

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Speaker 1: And she's also the author of the book Meet the

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Speaker 1: Frugal Woods, Achieving Financial Independence through Simple Living. At age

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Speaker 1: thirty two, she reached financial independence and left a successful

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Speaker 1: career in Boston to create a more meaningful, purpose driven

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Speaker 1: life on a sixty six acre homestead in the woods

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Speaker 1: of Vermont with her husband and their two young daughters.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like a lot of lawn tomow. Liz has

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Speaker 1: been featured on The Today Show, PBS, NPR, in The

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Speaker 1: New York Times and more. Are So Liz, we can't

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Speaker 1: wait to share your story and give our listeners a

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Speaker 1: peek into what your life looks like they're on the homestead.

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Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you for having me, So Liz. Every week

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Speaker 1: on the show, Matt and I we drink a craft

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Speaker 1: beer Today on the show, We're drinking a beer called

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Speaker 1: Boss Tweed by Old Nation Brewing. And the reason that

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Speaker 1: we drink a beer it's to basically say that we're

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Speaker 1: prioritizing the here and now and craft beer or something

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Speaker 1: we value a whole lot. But what is something that

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Speaker 1: you're super intentional about. What's your splurge or craft beer

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Speaker 1: equivalent that says, you know what, I'm going to prioritize

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Speaker 1: this right now, even while I'm saving for the future.

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Speaker 1: Is it wrong if I say craft beer? Know you

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Speaker 1: just become the third best friend in this trio? Then

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Speaker 1: now listen. So recently my husband and I went to

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Speaker 1: Hill Farmstead. Thank you. I appreciate that. You know what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. So, no, my husband and I have

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Speaker 1: a great love of craft beer and of good food.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think good food is another thing for us.

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Speaker 1: We go out to dinner once a month. You guys

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Speaker 1: are parents, you understand this. We have a babysitter. Once

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Speaker 1: a month, we go out to dinner. I do not

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Speaker 1: think about the total at all, and we don't worry

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Speaker 1: about how much we spend. And for us, that's really

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Speaker 1: an investment in our marriage. It's an investment in the

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Speaker 1: long term and the same goes for the little vacation

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Speaker 1: getaways that we're able to take without our kids. You know,

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Speaker 1: there there is not like penny pinching going on on

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Speaker 1: those trips. And so I think when you are planning

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Speaker 1: for the long term, it's also important to think about

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Speaker 1: what you need to do to fill yourself up and

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Speaker 1: to reinforce the things that are important to you. And

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Speaker 1: for me, my marriage is really important and I don't

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Speaker 1: want to lose sight of, you know, this great person

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Speaker 1: I married just because we have two toddlers, which is

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Speaker 1: not always conducive to you know, a harmonious life. So

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Speaker 1: I think good food, good beer. I'm with you. So

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Speaker 1: Hill Farmstead, that's one of your favorites, Liz, Do you

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Speaker 1: have any other favorites there in Vermont? Because there is

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Speaker 1: some incredible beer from that great state. Absolutely so Upper

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Speaker 1: Pass is another that I think does just a tremendous job.

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Speaker 1: And also River Roost. Have you guys heard of River Roost?

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Speaker 1: Seriously haven't heard of either one of those. Surprisingly, So

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Speaker 1: if you have a chance for Upper Past their cloud Drop,

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Speaker 1: I p a is I want to drink it already. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I think it's better than the Alchemist I I really,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that. I'm gonna put that out there,

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Speaker 1: and then River Roost does an I PA called mass

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Speaker 1: Verde that in my mind, move over Hill Farmstead. We

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Speaker 1: have just some incredible small craft breweries here, and I

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Speaker 1: would say that we um invest in them heavily. Isn't

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Speaker 1: the right way, you know. We we drink really good beer,

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Speaker 1: like I'm not gonna drink cheap beer. You know. I

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Speaker 1: came to that realization a couple of years ago. For me,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of half and half, and then I decided,

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Speaker 1: you know what, that's something I say, I prioritize, and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go all the way and I'm not drinking

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Speaker 1: bad beer pretty much ever anymore. And it just makes

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Speaker 1: me so happy. Like when I have good beer, I

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Speaker 1: don't drink a whole lot of it, but I always

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Speaker 1: drink good stuff. And so every time i'm practice beer,

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Speaker 1: it puts a big smile on my face. I agree.

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Speaker 1: And it also for us like it lets us support

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Speaker 1: our local economy because you know, Vermont is a very

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Speaker 1: small state. We have like six dred thousand residents, and

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Speaker 1: so putting our money locally is important to us, especially

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Speaker 1: if it's beer. Alright, so Liz, let's kind of jump

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Speaker 1: into your story. So you currently live, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: on your homestead, but that wasn't always the case. Can

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Speaker 1: you share with our listeners a sort of a quick

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Speaker 1: little version of your story. Sure. So my husband and

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Speaker 1: I met in college our freshman year actually, and really

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Speaker 1: we're pretty conventional people, I would say at that point

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Speaker 1: in time, we graduated, we both got jobs, and we

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Speaker 1: got engaged, got married when we were twenty four, which

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Speaker 1: sounds so young now. I just it just sounds really young.

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Speaker 1: But that's when we got married, and we thought at

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Speaker 1: that point that we had essentially mapped out our lives.

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Speaker 1: We were living in Cambridge, outside of Boston. We both

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Speaker 1: had great jobs, and we figured, Okay, what we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do is save money in order to buy a home

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Speaker 1: and just keep sort of advancing in our careers and

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Speaker 1: we'll have kids and we'll live here and that will

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Speaker 1: really be it. And that was the path that we

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Speaker 1: followed until we hit thirty. And when we turned thirty,

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Speaker 1: we had this realization that we've been living in cities.

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Speaker 1: During that time. We lived in New York City, Boston, Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. Back up to Boston, We bought a home,

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Speaker 1: we adopted a dog, and we had jobs that when

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Speaker 1: we were twenty four we thought would be our dream jobs.

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Speaker 1: So here we are. We've essentially achieved everything we've set

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Speaker 1: out to achieve, and we're twenty nine and thirty years old,

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Speaker 1: and we are thinking what are we doing with our lives?

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Speaker 1: And that is a very privileged realization, but it's also

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Speaker 1: very scary because everything we've done after that point, you know,

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Speaker 1: our degrees, I had gone to graduate school, all of

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Speaker 1: the hours that we put in on our jobs, and

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Speaker 1: here we're thinking, this is not what we want to

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Speaker 1: be doing. And so we had a conversation that I

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Speaker 1: detail in my book, the coffee shop conversation. Yes, we

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Speaker 1: were at a coffee shop, drinking like really expensive lot

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Speaker 1: to days and saying, you know, what what are we doing?

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Speaker 1: What when are you happiest? And this was a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a rhetorical question, but also, you know, we

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Speaker 1: kind of turned to each other and said, no, really,

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Speaker 1: like when when are you actually happiest? And we realized

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Speaker 1: that we're both happiest when we're out in the woods,

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Speaker 1: when we're hiking. We started hiking together a couple of

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Speaker 1: years after we got married and recognized that being in

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Speaker 1: the woods for us represented this freedom and this loss

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Speaker 1: of all of the expectations that we felt in our jobs,

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Speaker 1: that we felt in society, and all of the stress,

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Speaker 1: kind of the ambient stress that living in big cities

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Speaker 1: put on us. We said, why are we paying to

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Speaker 1: live in this city and then driving several hours in

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Speaker 1: order to go hiking? You know, why don't we just

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Speaker 1: move to the woods. And this started sort of the

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Speaker 1: kickoff of what became Frugal Woods and the kickoff of

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Speaker 1: our journey to financial independence. And it was a conversation

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Speaker 1: that had a deadline that just kept accelerating. So initially

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Speaker 1: we said, all right, we'll move to the woods when

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Speaker 1: we retire at sixty five. And then we thought, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we could do it like when we're forty. And

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Speaker 1: then we sat down, we looked at our numbers, We

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Speaker 1: looked at what we were making, what we were spending,

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Speaker 1: how much we hadn't savings. We said, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think if we really focused, we could do this in

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Speaker 1: under five years. And that was a very scary thought

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Speaker 1: because we would be letting go of essentially these identities

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Speaker 1: that we had created for ourselves. But it was also

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Speaker 1: really exhilarating because we thought we can sort of chart

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Speaker 1: a new life and we can create a totally different existence.

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Speaker 1: Neither of us grew up rurally, and so moving out

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Speaker 1: here to Vermont, we bought our home in late moved

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Speaker 1: here in and we have sixty six acres of woods

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Speaker 1: and gardens and forests and it's all new to us.

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Speaker 1: And I think more than anything, what we love is

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Speaker 1: that it is constant learning. We were just constantly making mistakes,

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Speaker 1: constantly learning, learning new things, and that to me is

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Speaker 1: really invigorating. That is I mean, that's a really interesting story, Liz.

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Speaker 1: Take take me back to those conversations, that coffee shop

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Speaker 1: conversation and then the conversations that you guys were having

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Speaker 1: right after that. How intense were they, How hard was

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Speaker 1: it for you guys to both get on the same page.

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Speaker 1: Give me a window into kind of what those conversations

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Speaker 1: were like. At that point, we were very much on

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Speaker 1: the same page. And I think at different points in

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Speaker 1: our marriage, you know, we've been more or less on

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Speaker 1: the same page. And at that point, we were sort

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Speaker 1: of united in our feeling that we did not like

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Speaker 1: what we were doing, which you know, so we were

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Speaker 1: sort of like, I don't know why we're living here.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why we're doing these jobs. And we

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Speaker 1: that feeling was mutual, and I think that was a

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Speaker 1: really fortunate thing. You know, it just sort of happened

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Speaker 1: that way, that at that point in time, we both

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Speaker 1: felt that kind of dissatisfaction with what we thought would

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Speaker 1: be our ideal jobs. You know, what society was telling

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Speaker 1: us at that time is, well, you should spend more money,

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Speaker 1: you know, you should spend more money, and that will

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Speaker 1: yield fulfillment. And we were spending, you know, plenty of

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Speaker 1: money at that point, and I realized it was really

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Speaker 1: empty for me, you know, buying things including craft beer, um,

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Speaker 1: buying clothes, getting my hair done. It just wasn't the

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Speaker 1: deep fulfillment. And that the question that kept coming back

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Speaker 1: to me over and over is what am I doing

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Speaker 1: with my life? What am I doing? Where am I going?

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Speaker 1: When I am an old woman? What is it that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say I've done? And that really stuck

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Speaker 1: a burr in me, and it was essentially this sort

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Speaker 1: of tug that I I could not turn away from.

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Speaker 1: And Nate, my husband, felt much the same way, and

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, I've always wanted to live in

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Speaker 1: the woods, and I said, well, I've always wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a writer. And we kind of looked at each

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Speaker 1: other and said, well, why why aren't we doing that that?

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Speaker 1: You know what, what's holding us back? That? And so

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Speaker 1: I think when you are in a partnership, if you

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Speaker 1: can sort of see what your partner needs and kind

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Speaker 1: of recognize what their gifts are and when they thrive,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a real moment for finding how you

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Speaker 1: want to live your lives. And you know, as your listeners, know,

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Speaker 1: how you use your money is going to be the

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Speaker 1: type of life that you live. And so making that

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Speaker 1: conscious choice at that point in time to stop spending

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Speaker 1: our money and start saving it was a pretty i

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Speaker 1: won't say easy, but it was a it was what

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Speaker 1: we needed to do. We were both very bought into

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Speaker 1: the idea. There's a lot of power when you're working

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Speaker 1: together like that with your spouse. Uh. And you know, Lis,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned how that timeline kind of accelerated, right. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned five years and in the book you mentioned how

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Speaker 1: you had like a three year and five month plan

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Speaker 1: where y'all able to actually stick to that amount of

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Speaker 1: time or what did you know, did it happen sooner

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Speaker 1: or did it get pushed back a little bit. So

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Speaker 1: we ended up finding our homestead oh little bit before

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Speaker 1: we reached financial independence, but it was what we wanted.

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Speaker 1: We were able to buy it without selling our home

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Speaker 1: in Cambridge because a piece of our financial independence strategy

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Speaker 1: is that we rent out the home that we own

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Speaker 1: in Cambridge, and so we were able to do that,

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Speaker 1: and then we reached financial independence sort of shortly after

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Speaker 1: making that move, and so the timeline syncd up pretty well.

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Speaker 1: But it kind of came down to the whims of

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Speaker 1: real estate. If if anybody has ever looked rurally, then

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Speaker 1: you know that there are not that many properties. They

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Speaker 1: don't come for a sale very often, and they sit

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Speaker 1: on the market. They can sit on the market for

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Speaker 1: a very long time. So we needed to find something

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Speaker 1: that kind of ticked all the boxes for us because

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Speaker 1: we did not want to move again, and we had

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Speaker 1: thought about kind of a lot of different ways to

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Speaker 1: make this move. You know, would we build from scratch,

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Speaker 1: would we buy something that wasn't finished yet, would we

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Speaker 1: sort of buy a multi family in a city and

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Speaker 1: you know, renovate and rent out. Would we live in

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Speaker 1: a tent would we you know, what would we do?

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Speaker 1: And we this. We ended up realizing that we wanted

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Speaker 1: to buy a finished home, and we wanted to buy

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Speaker 1: a lot of land, and that ultimately we were pretty

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Speaker 1: flexible on location because we both work from home, and

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Speaker 1: so we needed a good school district and we needed

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Speaker 1: a good good land and a good house. And we

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Speaker 1: found it, and it was pretty obvious to both of

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Speaker 1: us that like, this was the one, so we bought it.

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Speaker 1: We closed on this house. I think it was the

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Speaker 1: week after our first daughter was born, which is I

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Speaker 1: do not recommend that, Like, if anybody's wondering, don't do that.

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Speaker 1: But that's just it's how it happened, and it was

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Speaker 1: it was the one. I could not let this house go. So,

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Speaker 1: but doesn't it always happen the way? I feel like

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Speaker 1: anytime there's a large life change that happens, there's always

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Speaker 1: like multiple life changes that happen all at once, especially

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Speaker 1: when you're near late twenties, early thirties making decisions like that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, a kids, houses, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Just sometimes it all goes down in the same week

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Speaker 1: and gets crazy. Yeah, I think so. And it's so

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Speaker 1: funny because I always tell people like, don't make several

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Speaker 1: life decisions at once, and then you know, I had

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Speaker 1: a baby, I bought it, so it's like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you just you. Kind of my thought about this is like,

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Speaker 1: do your research, spend a lot of time researching, and

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Speaker 1: then be ready to kind of take a risk. But

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Speaker 1: take a risk strategically. You know know what you're getting into.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, there there comes a point

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Speaker 1: where you have to just decide, okay, am I Am

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Speaker 1: I going to regret doing this or not doing this?

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Speaker 1: More so, you you mentioned keeping that house in Cambridge

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Speaker 1: and that that was a part of your financial independence plan.

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Speaker 1: What made that an important piece of your plan to

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Speaker 1: achieve financial independence? And how has that investment property really

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Speaker 1: impacted you guys on on your way towards hitting that goal.

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Speaker 1: So the reason it's important is it provides a great

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Speaker 1: source of passive income. I wouldn't say that it's necessary

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Speaker 1: to financial independence. You know, there's certainly the option of

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Speaker 1: selling that home, and I think if you're looking at

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Speaker 1: the at the rent versus cell, I think you need

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Speaker 1: to do a lot of calculations. So we did. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot lot of math and spreadsheets that went

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Speaker 1: into this decision, and there may come a point at

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Speaker 1: which we do decide to sell it, but so far

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Speaker 1: the rent has been fantastic and it's really providing a

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Speaker 1: great passive income stream. We have a property manager, which

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Speaker 1: for us has been the best decision. We are serious

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Speaker 1: insourcers and major d I wires and my husband can like,

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Speaker 1: he can do plumbing, he can do electrical, he can

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Speaker 1: he can do everything. But it came down to listen,

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Speaker 1: if this is really gonna be passive income, it has

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Speaker 1: to actually be passive. We can't be running down there.

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Speaker 1: It's three hours away, so we can't be driving three

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Speaker 1: hours to like, you know, repair a toilet or re

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Speaker 1: plumb the kitchen or whatever it is. So paying for

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Speaker 1: a property manager has been really really worthwhile in making

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Speaker 1: it a truly passive investment. So I think if you're

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Speaker 1: looking at this, you have to decide, you know, do

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Speaker 1: I live locally, do I want to be doing the

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Speaker 1: repairs or is the math going to work out that

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Speaker 1: I can pay a property manager, you know, and still

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Speaker 1: net a really good turn on that investment. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's it's always a question of how handy you

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Speaker 1: are and how hands on you want to be with

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Speaker 1: the property. So it's for us that the property manager

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Speaker 1: and the location of the rental has really worked out well.

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Speaker 1: It's in between Harvard University and M I T. And

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Speaker 1: so I mean it. So, you know, the great thing

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Speaker 1: is like there's a constant flow of graduate students who

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Speaker 1: need housing for a year, a couple of years, but

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Speaker 1: who don't want to buy. And another factor for us

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Speaker 1: is that I think it's like sixty of units in

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Speaker 1: Cambridge are rented, so the rental population is really robust.

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Speaker 1: In terms of vacancy. We always project out for having vacancy,

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Speaker 1: but knock on what, we haven't had any vacancy yet.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's as with anything, you really need

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Speaker 1: to know the market. For us, when we bought this house,

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons we bought it is because we

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Speaker 1: thought it would make a good rental and it does.

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Speaker 1: It was not our dream home, you know. We really

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Speaker 1: bought it thinking, Okay, it's a standalone, it has a

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Speaker 1: good number of bedrooms, good number of bathrooms, it's fairly updated,

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Speaker 1: it's in a great neighborhood, and we thought this could

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Speaker 1: be a really good rental and so that that kind

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Speaker 1: of went into our decision with buying it, and I

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Speaker 1: would say we did the exact opposite with the home

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Speaker 1: that we live in here in Vermont. This would be

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Speaker 1: a terrible rental. So you know, so it's like you

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Speaker 1: kind of need to know like, am I buying this

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Speaker 1: house because I may one day want to flip it

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Speaker 1: or may one day want to rent it? Or is

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Speaker 1: this just like my long term dream family home. And

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Speaker 1: so for us, you know, in our financial projections are

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Speaker 1: Vermont home is is zero on our balance sheets. We

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Speaker 1: do not count this property as anything, whereas the Cambridge

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Speaker 1: home is really seen as an asset. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's just important to know that when you're when you're

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Speaker 1: going into buying something. Yeah, I mean and thinking back

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Speaker 1: to you know, you mentioned how Nate how he's super handy,

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Speaker 1: your missfrugal woods and being handy and being able to

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Speaker 1: day why things that like really ties into being frugal.

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Speaker 1: It's a hard decision I found to actually say no

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Speaker 1: to things that you know, like that you could possibly do.

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Speaker 1: But when you actually take the time to sit back

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Speaker 1: and sort of assess, like does this line up with

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Speaker 1: my overall vision? Do I want to be spending my

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Speaker 1: time doing this. That certainly makes some of those decisions

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Speaker 1: a lot easier, and it sounds like that's what y'all

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Speaker 1: were able to do, absolutely and it really came down to, like, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we could, you know, drive six hours in a day

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Speaker 1: in order to go and you know, have Nate installed

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Speaker 1: the new oven that they needed or to repair the toilet,

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Speaker 1: because he can do all of that. But it's just

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Speaker 1: it's not worth it. And I think it's really important

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Speaker 1: to put a dollar amount on your time or even

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Speaker 1: just put a value on your time because it time

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Speaker 1: and money, right those are the two resources, and especially

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Speaker 1: since having kids, it's really obvious to us that time

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Speaker 1: is the greater resource. Alright, Liz, that's awesome. Until we've

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Speaker 1: got a lot more questions about frugality, because you have

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Speaker 1: called yourself an extreme frugal person and I love that.

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Speaker 1: I love that you lend yourself towards extreme frugality, and

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Speaker 1: so we're kind of we're going to kind of get

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Speaker 1: into some of the ways that you have positioned yourself

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Speaker 1: as an extreme frugalist and how other people can kind

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Speaker 1: of learn from that. Right after the break, all right,

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Speaker 1: we're back from the break with Liz Touns and Liz.

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Speaker 1: Before your book came out, you were completely anonymous and

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Speaker 1: you only went by Miss Frugal Woods. So obviously we

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Speaker 1: have to talk about frugality. What does it mean to

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Speaker 1: you to be frugal? For me, it means aligning my

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Speaker 1: spending with my values. It does not mean pinching every

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Speaker 1: less penny. It does not mean saving as much as

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Speaker 1: I can. It really means focusing on my priorities, so

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Speaker 1: spending on what matters and then saving in all of

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Speaker 1: the areas that don't matter to me. So I think

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Speaker 1: a good example is the craft beer. You know, my

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Speaker 1: husband and I we enjoy craft beer. It's it's a

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Speaker 1: hobby as well as a passion. We love to go

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Speaker 1: to tastings. Oh my gosh, we love having friends over

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Speaker 1: and like we had so we had the mad fie

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Speaker 1: into us and his wife come and we did like

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Speaker 1: a blind taste test where we all try to identify

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Speaker 1: the Yeah, none of us could do it. We're like,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I enjoy. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: joy and pleasure and community that comes from that. Now,

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Speaker 1: So a way that we save money is with hair cuts.

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Speaker 1: I cut my husband's hair and he cuts my hair,

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Speaker 1: and I cut our oldest daughter's hair, And so this

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Speaker 1: is we have calculated over the years, like actual thousands

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Speaker 1: of dollars that we're saving because I don't really care

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Speaker 1: what my hair looks like and my husband doesn't really

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Speaker 1: care what his hair looks like. And so it's really deciding, Okay,

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Speaker 1: where am I getting the best return on my investment?

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Speaker 1: Where do I want to be putting my money. Not

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Speaker 1: everything can be a sacred cow. Not everything can be prioritized,

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Speaker 1: So what matters to me where do I want to

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Speaker 1: spend the money, and then what doesn't. So we buy

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Speaker 1: a lot of organic produce. I buy a lot of

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Speaker 1: organic meats, local meat, local eggs from my neighbors. It's

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Speaker 1: much more expensive to buy from them, but I would

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Speaker 1: much rather do that. But then for things like my

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Speaker 1: kids clothes, books, toys, those are all used and from

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Speaker 1: garage sales for you know, a dollar or two dollars.

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Speaker 1: So again it's it's really deciding how I want to

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Speaker 1: allocate the resources that I have towards my values. And

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Speaker 1: I think there are different levels of this that you

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Speaker 1: can kind of ramp up and down depending on what

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Speaker 1: your goal is. So when my husband and I started

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Speaker 1: the financial independence journey. We cut out everything. There was

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Speaker 1: no craft beer going on all, right, it was pretty dire.

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Speaker 1: We decided we needed to save as much as we

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Speaker 1: could because we wanted to reach financial independence, so that

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Speaker 1: that was one way of living, you know that that

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Speaker 1: was like pretty bare bones frugality. And I share our

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Speaker 1: monthly spending on the blog and I've been doing it

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Speaker 1: for five years now, so you can look back, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of at the in the early days and compared

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Speaker 1: to what we spend now. We spent so much money now,

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Speaker 1: you know, by comparison, but it's all on things that

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Speaker 1: we thought about and think, the things that we've made

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Speaker 1: conscious choices about. And I think when you are conscious

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Speaker 1: about your spending, when you know how much you're spending

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Speaker 1: every month, you know you're spending on and it's all

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Speaker 1: meaningful to you, that's an essence of frugality. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think so many people are unwilling to even consider cutting

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Speaker 1: their partners hair or vice versa. Right, that's like something

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Speaker 1: that's not even on the table. And I love that.

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Speaker 1: You Just part of frugality is putting more things on

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Speaker 1: the table and being willing to consider it, right and

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Speaker 1: think about it, think outside the box a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I specifically want to ask you, Liz, you lived in

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Speaker 1: a couple of major cities. You lived in some really

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Speaker 1: expensive places before you moved at your homestead in Vermont.

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Speaker 1: So how were you able to in particular, inside of

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Speaker 1: a big city. Because we've got listeners who live in

430
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 1: l A, New York, We've got folks that live in

431
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: a lot of big cities. Matt and I live in

432
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 1: a big city. What are your suggestions and how are

433
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: you best able to exercise frugality even while living in

434
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: a major city. So I have actually found that it's

435
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 1: less expensive to live in a city than it is

436
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: to live rurally, which I know, I know is not

437
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 1: what people think. And I wrote a post about this

438
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: because I wanted to analyze our spending for a year

439
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: in the city and a year in the country, and

440
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: sure enough, we spent more in the country. And so

441
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,360
Speaker 1: I think, when you're in a city, you have so

442
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 1: many things that you can take advantage of, So you

443
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,919
Speaker 1: might be able to go without a car. My husband

444
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 1: and I were car free for a while. And if

445
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: your employer offers a transit pass or any kind of reimbursement,

446
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes there's an option to buy a transit

447
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 1: pass pre tax through your employer. These are always that

448
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: that you're saving. So if you don't have a car,

449
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 1: obviously that's a ton of embodied costs that you're saving.

450
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: You have more options, so you have competition. In grocery stores,

451
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 1: you have competition for just about every service. Whereas rurally,

452
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like one grocery store you're

453
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 1: kind of you're kind of beholden to whatever their prices are.

454
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: But when you're in a city, you really can comparison

455
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: shop in every sense. Also, the used market in this

456
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: city is on point. You can find anything. Specifically, you

457
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: can find things for free. So I when I lived

458
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: in New York City and in Boston especially, I found

459
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: almost everything for free on the side of the road

460
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: because people move a lot, you know, it's a very

461
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: transient culture. People are not interested in extracting a return

462
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: on their investment of furniture or whatever it may be,

463
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: and so it's out by the side of the road.

464
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,239
Speaker 1: They have to move. Whatever it's out there, you take it.

465
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: This is a good deal. So I found that living

466
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: in the city really really enables frugality. If you are

467
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: thoughtful and careful about it, and I have a couple

468
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: of posts on it if anybody is interested. I think

469
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: the big unavoidable cost is housing. So housing is going

470
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: to be more expensive in a city. But if you

471
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 1: are willing to sacrifice, or you're willing to be strategic,

472
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: you know, there are kind of there are ways that

473
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: you can make that work to your advantage. So my

474
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: husband and I lived in a basement apartment near Central

475
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: Square and Cambridge and paid just a fantastic rate. You know,

476
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: we saved a lot of money by living there, and

477
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: our landlord did not raise our rent for a couple

478
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: of years because we were great tenants, and we went

479
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: out of our way to be great tenants. You know,

480
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: we tried. I baked him cookies, our landlord. I you know,

481
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,679
Speaker 1: we tried. We kept it so clean and tried really

482
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: hard to sort of engender that good relationship because we

483
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: did not want our rent raised. And so I think

484
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: anything you can do to facilitate a lower housing cost

485
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: in almost every other avenue of life, you can often

486
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: spend less. If you are in a major city, well,

487
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: if you ever moved to Atlanta, you and Nate can

488
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: totally rent one of my places because I love cookies.

489
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: So hey, there you go. I I would bake you

490
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: cookies anyway. All right? Nice? So Lizen, you know in

491
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: your book and you often talk about being frugal like

492
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: out of necessity versus being frugal sort of from a

493
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: place of privilege when you were living in New York City,

494
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,719
Speaker 1: like you talk about how you're on food stamps and

495
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: so do you feel that was a period of your

496
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: life when you were being frugal because you had too,

497
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 1: because that was just what was needed to survive. And

498
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 1: then so that's part one of the questions. And then

499
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: the second part is how are you frugal enough to

500
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: still be able to save some of your income because

501
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: because I know you're you're working hard to save your

502
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 1: money while you were living in New York City as well.

503
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 1: So the two parts for you there. Sure, So when

504
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: I lived in Brooklyn, I was working for AmeriCorps and

505
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: making I think I made ten thousand dollars and then

506
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: saved two thousand of it. And that was a difficult year.

507
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: You know, I won't That's not an experience I really

508
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: want to repeat because that was frugality out of necessity,

509
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: and it wasn't a lot of fun. So, you know,

510
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of privilege in what I

511
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: do now in choosing to save money, there's there's just

512
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: so much embedded privilege there versus needing to save money.

513
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: And even when I was in Americorp, you know, had

514
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: I really come into dire straits, my family would have

515
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: helped me out, you know, my parents or my siblings

516
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: would have helped me out. So there's still there are

517
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: still layers and layers of privilege that go into that experience.

518
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: So during that year, I really had to think about

519
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: every dollar I spent, and that's exhausting. And I think,

520
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, anyone who has lived that way, who has

521
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: to live that way, recognizes how exhausting that is to

522
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: always focus on money and to always be worried that

523
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: you will not have enough money. At the same time,

524
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: it taught me the lessons of how creative I can

525
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: be and how out of the box I can be

526
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: with coming up with solutions. So I found a lot

527
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: of free entertainment. You know, I figured out which museums

528
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: were free. I figured out where I could get discount produce.

529
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: I figured out where free meals were offered. You know,

530
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: it was an opportunity for me to really think hard

531
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: about how I could enjoy the city but not spend

532
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: any money. And at the same time, I was so

533
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: fortunate I was single. I didn't have any kids, so

534
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: that is made the whole experience a lot easier. I

535
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: really cannot imagine doing it now with children. Yeah, I mean,

536
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 1: I can't imagine with kids. It makes it changes everything, right,

537
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: There's so much more to consider, Liz. Once you guys

538
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: hatched your plan to move out to the country, you

539
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: mentioned some of kind of the crazy frugal things that

540
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: you did, like you know, and you still do giving

541
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: each other haircuts. But what are some of the other

542
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: major things that you did that people might think are

543
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: outside of the box or a little zany. And in particular,

544
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: I want to hear about your d i y seltzer

545
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: that you that you make at home and to save

546
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: a ton of money. Oh yeah, the d i y seltzer.

547
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: So this comes from I am not kidding. My husband

548
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: and I like will sit down in the evening and

549
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: we'll look around the house and think, like, hmm, I

550
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: wonder if there's a better way that we could do that,

551
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: And so he and I both have this sort of

552
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: sense of efficiency and this desire to create efficiencies and

553
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: to create strategy around a lot of the things we

554
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: do are very our households is like very routine driven

555
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: and very sort of like formulaic in some ways, because

556
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,239
Speaker 1: that really works for our personalities. So I think, if

557
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: you have that personality, or if you want to cultivate

558
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: that personality, look around your house and think what could

559
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: I be doing better? And that is how the homemade

560
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: Seltzer hack came about. So I've written about this on

561
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: the blog a couple of times, and we essentially we

562
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: are obsessed with seltzer, which is sparkling water. We we

563
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: could just drink plain water, I'll be honest, but it's

564
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: one of those things that we really enjoy. And so

565
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: we were spending money on plastic bottles from the grocery

566
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: store of seltzer. We're like, there has to be a

567
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: better way. So we got a soda stream and that

568
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: cut down the cost per serving. Those are individual canisters

569
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: that you buy to create your own seltzer. But then

570
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: we thought, wait a minute, these canisters are I think

571
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: they were like fifteen dollars for these tiny canisters. Were like,

572
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: why can't we just get a huge tank of CEO two.

573
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: So so we looked into it, and this is where

574
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: it really helps that Nate is handy, because I would

575
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: not have figured this out. He figured out that we

576
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: could hack the soda stream and hook it up to

577
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: I think it's a thirty pound canister of c O two,

578
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: which costs us I think thirty bucks. So you're looking

579
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: at you know, just pennies per serving of saltzer. And

580
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: so this is an idea of sort of an idea

581
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: of hacking your life and really an idea of creating efficiencies.

582
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: So this comes to bear for us in how we cook,

583
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: how we clean, how we raise our kids, the buying

584
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: choices that we make. I think when you are willing

585
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: to be open to different alternatives, when you're willing to

586
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: settle for something that's not perfect. You know, does it

587
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 1: look perfect that I have this, like thirty pound canister

588
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: of c O two in my kitchen. Probably not, but

589
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: it's a conversation starter and I don't really care, you know,

590
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: I think letting go of this idea that I need

591
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: to have perfect hair or a perfect looking kitchen, allowing

592
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: myself to you be okay with the imperfect. Really lets

593
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: you save a lot of money and I think enjoy

594
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,719
Speaker 1: life a lot more. I think you're enormous. CEO two

595
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: canisters totally Instagram where the lives? Okay, you know I should.

596
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: It's never been on Instagram. You gotta put it up there.

597
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: People want to see that, right do they? Though? I

598
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: mean it really like, it's not that. After this conversation,

599
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: they totally it's just is it just one of those

600
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: like tall, skinny tanks that you see on the back

601
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: of trucks with like thirty other ones. Okay, it's not. Yeah,

602
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: there's nothing special. Well obviously, So that's something frugal that

603
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: you can do regardless where you live. Liz, you know,

604
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: you mentioned some of the different things you did there

605
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: in the city. So now that you live out there

606
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: on some land, right, like you mentioned your sixty six acres,

607
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: what are some ways that you're able to save a

608
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: ton of money now by flexing your home setting frugal muscles.

609
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: I assume that you are doing things differently there on

610
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: the farm than you were in the city. So we're

611
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: saving absolutely no money with our land, I think. So

612
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: we do a lot that I think will in the

613
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: long run be frugal, but in the short term is

614
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: very expensive. So and this is kind of one of

615
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: those things that I have written about a couple of

616
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: times that I think for people who don't live rurally,

617
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: it's hard to sort of understand how expensive it is

618
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: to be sustainable and to be self sufficient. So we

619
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: have solar panels, so we generate just about all of

620
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: our energy, but we had to pay for those solar panels, right,

621
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: so that was a pretty large upfront investment. Will that

622
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: pay off in the time that we live in this home,

623
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,959
Speaker 1: you know, I hope. So we heat our home with

624
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: wood that grows on our property that we harvest ourselves.

625
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: So you think, oh, free heat, right, we have like

626
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: no heating bill. But at the same time, it's hours

627
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: and hours of my husband's time, and it's also the

628
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: cost of a chainsaw, a tractor, you know, chainsaw gear,

629
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: a wood shed that my husband built himself, and then

630
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: really just all of the labor and time of heating

631
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: with wood. So it's you know, it's very easy to

632
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: kind of see it as something that is free if

633
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: you don't kind of recognize all of the costs that

634
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: are behind it. And for us, we choose to do

635
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: these things because we love it. We love our woodstove.

636
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: My husband loves you know, felling trees and bucking logs

637
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: and splitting wood and so that's a passion for him.

638
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: I love having wood heat in the house. But to

639
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 1: say that it's free, you know, kind of discounts the

640
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: costs that go into it. And the same goes for

641
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: our garden. So we grow tons and tons of food

642
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: and we preserve it and process it. But that is

643
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, a huge amount of labor hours, and it's

644
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: also fairly expensive. When you look at seeds and gardening equipment.

645
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: You can look at my expensive part and just see

646
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: like the amount of you know, stuff that we and

647
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: I'm needing overalls, boots, front pickers. You know. It's I

648
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: think it's possible that in ten or fifteen or twenty

649
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: years we might sort of start to see that we're

650
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: turn on investment. But I wouldn't want anyone to go

651
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: into the idea of kind of subsistence farming or even

652
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: generating a profit from agriculture and thinking that it's easy

653
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: or that you know, it's a very straightforward thing. Well,

654
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: at least night doesn't have to go to the gym

655
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: splitting his own wood. Yeah, we don't have to pay

656
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: for a gym membership, which is good because there is

657
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: no gym. Yeah, rural Vermont doesn't have like l a

658
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: fitness no no right. And so you know, again for us,

659
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: it's like we love it, like we love doing this,

660
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: and so I think it's it's important to recognize how

661
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: you enjoy spending your time. So, Liz, you've also talked

662
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: about kind of some of the side benefits that frugality

663
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: can offer. So it's not just saving money, it's not

664
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: just being able to invest more and and say more

665
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: for the future. What are some of the biggest benefits

666
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: to frugality aside from just being able to have more

667
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: money to to save and invest. So I find that

668
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: it's more environmentally friendly the less that you are consuming,

669
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: the less that you're buying, I think, the fewer sort

670
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: of carbon costs that you're incurring. I think when you

671
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: are concerned about how much you're spending commuting, you're likely

672
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: to have a fuel efficient car or walk or use transit.

673
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: So we have a Toyota Prius and then our other

674
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: car is a truck, a Toyota Tender. Because we live

675
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: in the woods, and so I think when you are

676
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: thinking about saving money but also impacting the environment, there's

677
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 1: a great sort of synergy that happens there. I also

678
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: find that frugality builds community. So with a lot of

679
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 1: my friends, a lot of our connections started through sort

680
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: of helping each other, sharing our resources, giving things to

681
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: each other, and really finding a way to build a

682
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: community that's not based on money, but that's based on

683
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: barter and trade. And I think barter and trade is

684
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: alive and well and is in a city near you.

685
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of people who would

686
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: love to be living that way and love to be

687
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 1: trading services versus paying for them, so we can when

688
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: you can tap into that network, it's such a wonderful

689
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: community to to open up. Awesome. So we're gonna talk

690
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: more with Liz here about basically the rhythms of their

691
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: life there Alice in Vermont, as well as some different

692
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: ways that folks can become frugal if they don't self

693
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: identify as being frugal. But first a quick break. We're back.

694
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: We're talking with Liz Tim's. She is the writer behind

695
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: the popular blog frugal Woods dot com. And Liz, you've

696
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: talked on your blog about how your initial plunge into frugality. Well,

697
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: it was mainly about money in the beginning, but after

698
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: a while, as it does for everyone who starts to

699
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: think about money intentionally, it kind of morphs into thinking

700
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: more about time prioritization. Can you talk about how that

701
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: changed for you over time as you began to kind

702
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: of dive more into the mindset of trying to achieve

703
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: financial independence. Absolutely. I think it's you know, when you start,

704
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 1: you in your first month of this financial independence journey,

705
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: it is all about the money, you know, and you're

706
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: really thinking like, okay, I will do anything to save

707
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: a dollar or a quarter, And as time goes on,

708
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: as you said, I think you really start to realize

709
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: that it's all about your time. And an exercise to

710
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: exercises that really work well for me are the dream

711
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: bio exercise, which is where you kind of write out

712
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: how ideally you would like your life to be presented.

713
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: So what would you like your bio to be and

714
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: what are you doing to get yourself to that and

715
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: what are you doing to hinder yourself? And then the

716
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 1: other pieces the obituary piece, which I don't know that's

717
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: kind of I know, right, But it's like thinking about,

718
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: hopefully you live to an old age and you've passed away,

719
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: what is it that you want people to say that

720
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: you have done, and what do you want to point

721
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: to that you've done with your life? And so I

722
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: think I came to realize that how I used my

723
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: time was going to inform those two elements, probably more

724
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: than how I used my money. But it goes back

725
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: to how you use your money is how your life

726
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: is going to play out. So for me, it's kind

727
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: of this interconnected web of the choices that I make

728
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: with my money and then the choices that I make

729
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 1: with my time. And there are times when I spend

730
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: money in order to spend less time, and there are

731
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: also times when I'm very happy to spend more time

732
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: in order to save money. And so I think it's

733
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: kind of knowing where you derive joy, what really brings

734
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: you fulfillment, and what you're happy to pay other people

735
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: to do. So I just had a post about what

736
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: we have for lunch, and one of the things I

737
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: do for lunches I buy chicken thighs that are like

738
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: they're already like deboned and like in little package I

739
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: don't roast a whole chicken. And I have plenty of

740
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,959
Speaker 1: friends out here who raise a chicken. They grow the chicken,

741
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: they slaughter the chicken, they pluck the chicken, they roast

742
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: the chicken. You know, they do the entire process. But

743
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: for me, it's like, I don't. I don't find fulfillment

744
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: in raising a chicken. I just it's not you know,

745
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: but they do it. I mean, you want, you know,

746
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: you want to know where your food comes from. For me,

747
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 1: it's not something I want to do. So I'm willing

748
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: to spend the money to buy chicken that someone else

749
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: is prepared. So I think it's being very conscious in

750
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: all of those decisions and recognizing I do have a choice,

751
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: and in this case, I choose to spend the money.

752
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: Another instance, I make my own apple sauce. So I

753
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: harvest the apples from our tree. I peel and core them,

754
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: I boil them down, I put them on the stove,

755
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: I can them a hot water bath, can them. You know,

756
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: this is like fairly time consuming, but I love doing it.

757
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: I love having that fresh apple sauce for my kids.

758
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: And so that's a choice where I'm making that I'm

759
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: making to spend more time but save money. So I

760
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 1: think it's really coming to terms with how you want

761
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 1: to use your time. And for me, having a weekly

762
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: schedule and kind of a weekly view of what I

763
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: do with my time is really important. And it's my

764
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: husband and I. We have a shared Google calendar. We

765
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: have these like constant sort of check ins about you

766
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: know what we what we want to accomplish that day,

767
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: and how we're going to use our time. And it's

768
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: always a balance between being outside, being inside, being with

769
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: our kids, being away from our kids, and making that

770
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: choice of what we need to feel whole. One of

771
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: the reasons you have those options list is because you

772
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: have in frugal, right, Like you've done smart things with

773
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: your money. You've been frugal, and that allows you to

774
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: prioritize certain things over others. You talk about this sort

775
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: of daily rhythm of life that you have there on

776
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: the farm where you are able to say, you know what,

777
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: like it's time for me to spend some time outside.

778
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: I'm done writing. Uh. You talk about like the sort

779
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: of balance that you're able to strive after between doing

780
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: things that are more like cerebrals, like more mental and

781
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: the things that you want to do that are also physical.

782
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that sort of balance a little bit? Yes,

783
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: that we so, Nate and I have realized that's kind

784
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: of like what we both need in our lives. Like

785
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: I really need to write. I love being a writer,

786
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 1: and I need to do that. I need that fulfillment.

787
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: I took a break after my first daughter was born

788
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: and didn't write for about two months, and it was

789
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: one of the worst two month periods of my life

790
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: because I was not receiving that fulfillment and I realized

791
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 1: I need to be doing this. So after my second

792
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: daughter was born, I did not take a break, which

793
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: may also not have been the best decision, but I

794
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 1: really need that outlet for myself. And similarly, my husband

795
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: is a software engineer and he loves doing that. He

796
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: needs time on the computer using that part of his brain,

797
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: and then he needs to get outside and like split

798
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: some wood, you know, our plan a garden, or harvest tomatoes.

799
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: And so I think recognizing what you need in order

800
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: to be fulfilled and not pigeonholing yourself. So I am

801
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: not a full time homesater, I am not a full

802
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: time writer. I'm not a full time mother, you know,

803
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: all of these things I do in increments that facilitate

804
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: the way that I want to be spending my time.

805
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: And I think just being honest with yourself about what

806
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: you need is something that I've struggled with as a parent.

807
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: And you know, I've struggled with acknowledging I love my kids,

808
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: but I need time away from them. You know, I

809
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: need to be able to work, I need to be

810
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: able to have that intellectual fulfillment and then have that

811
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: time outside without them too, because outside with your kids

812
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: is one thing, outside without them is a very different thing.

813
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: So knowing that like I need time to do yoga,

814
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: I need time to hike, I need time with my

815
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: friends without my kids, And the same goes from my

816
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: husband and so you know, really finding a way to

817
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: kind of create those opportunities within a family um and

818
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: a lot of what we have done is eliminate the

819
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: stuff that doesn't matter. So it sounds like you've been

820
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: able to find just such an awesome rhythm, and I

821
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: mean it changes every day, Like, let's be honest, I right, please,

822
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: Like I have a three and a half year old

823
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: and a one and a half year old, So this

824
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: is not like Nirvan album of course, of course we know,

825
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 1: we know that all too well. Matt's got four kids,

826
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: I've got three. Life is insane most days. But it

827
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: does sound like you guys have found a pace of

828
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 1: life that suits you, guys, and you had this massive

829
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: goal to move to Vermont, to this homestead, and obviously

830
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 1: getting there it took three years and five months pretty much.

831
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 1: It was this kind of years long process of achieving

832
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: this massive goal. What's it like not just in the

833
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: day to day, but but what are your long term

834
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: goals now? And what's it like to set new goals

835
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: Once you feel like you've achieved this intense, amazing, massive

836
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: goal that you said after and it took years to

837
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: get to, that's interesting. I don't you know, we don't

838
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,720
Speaker 1: really have like a next goal, but we have progressions

839
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: on this schal because the the homestead, as we see

840
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: it is still really coming to fruition. So every year

841
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: we kind of refine what we plant in the garden,

842
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: what we preserve. You know. The first year, like of

843
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: our apples rotted because we didn't know what we were doing. Yeah,

844
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 1: I was like crying and he was like, oh my god,

845
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: the apples rotted. Nate's like it's okay. Um, the next

846
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: year we made cider. You know, this year we're like

847
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: on schedule with cider. We've got people coming to help us,

848
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: like we're friends who we've conned into doing this. I

849
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: should be clear, um. And so it's every year we

850
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: kind of get better. So the idea of having an

851
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: ultimate goal when living rurally, it's really hard to see

852
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: that because it's a it's a constant progression of goals.

853
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: So Nate had this goal of having three years worth

854
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: of firewood in our woodshed, and so well, first he

855
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 1: had to build the woodshed. So last summer he built

856
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: the woodshed, and then this year he got up to

857
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: three years of firewood, which is nine chords, which I

858
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: know to people in the city, they're like, what nine

859
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 1: what's the chord? Listen, it's it's a lot of wood.

860
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: It's a lot. It's a lot of firewood. So he's

861
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 1: achieved that, but now he is like immediately pivoted into

862
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: another goal. And I'm kind of very much the same way.

863
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: You know, I always wanted to write a book, So

864
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: I wrote a book that was awesome, and then I

865
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: kind of pivoted into other goals. And so I think

866
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: you know, being nimble and realizing that a lot of

867
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: times achieving a goal is just an avenue into finding

868
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: new goals. And so I think, in a lot of ways,

869
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: this is our ultimate goal. I don't see us moving,

870
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: We don't plan on leaving Vermont. I really kind of

871
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: can't imagine ever leaving this property. I just were so

872
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: deeply connected to where we live now. But the way

873
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: in which we homestead, the way in which we spend

874
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: our time, that will evolve and that will change. And

875
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: each year that our kids get older, we have different

876
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: commitments with them, and I'm very open to sort of

877
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: seeing how all of that unfolds. I also want to

878
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 1: say that, you know, being financially independent, there's so much

879
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: privilege in that because if we decided tomorrow, okay, we're done,

880
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: we need to move, we could do that and it

881
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't be a financial challenge. So I think there's a

882
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,399
Speaker 1: lot of privilege and there's a lot of freedom that

883
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: comes from financial independence, and that comes from having that

884
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: ability to say, you know what, this isn't working for

885
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: me anymore. I need to go try something different. So

886
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 1: for someone specifically who's listening, who doesn't think that they're frugal,

887
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: or they just know that they're not frugal, Like, what

888
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: do you think are the keys to making frugality fun?

889
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: And how do you make it to be something that's ingrained,

890
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: something that sticks with you. So I wouldn't focus on

891
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: money at first. I would very much focus on where

892
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: you want to be in ten years, So you know,

893
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: write this out, where do you want to be in

894
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: ten years in terms of your finances, your career, and

895
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: your lifestyle. You know, if you again, this goes back

896
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: to kind of that dream bio exercise, like what do

897
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: you want to be doing when you really think about it,

898
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 1: What do you want to be doing? What do you

899
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: want to say you have accomplished? And how are you

900
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: going to make your money work towards that goal? Because again,

901
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: the money is just a tool. It's not the end all,

902
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: be all. It's it's very very much a way to

903
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: facilitate the life you want to live, So identify what

904
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 1: that life is. I think for a lot of folks,

905
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: For me in particular, I spent the most money when

906
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: I did not know what I wanted to do. You know,

907
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:17,479
Speaker 1: when I everything right and you're like, I don't know that, Yeah,

908
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,959
Speaker 1: maybe I want to be going to brunch all the time,

909
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: Like I don't know. I mean, it's not every Sunday,

910
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: come on, yeah, exactly exactly. And so it's like spending

911
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: money is a very easy way to explore yourself. And

912
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a bad thing, you know, I don't.

913
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a bad thing to spend money.

914
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: And kind of see, like, I don't know, does this

915
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: bring you fulfillment? Maybe it does. So maybe you need

916
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: to like make a lot of money, you know, in

917
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: order to spend a lot of money. So it's I

918
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: think you really need to identify what that long term

919
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: goal is. And I have Okay, so self promotion on

920
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 1: Frugal Woods, I have a free challenge. It's the Uber

921
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: Frugal Month Challenge. It's thirty one days, it's free, it's

922
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: by email, and it takes you through this process. So

923
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 1: it goes through the whole process that Nate and I

924
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: went through of identifying like what are those goals and

925
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: what we need to do to reach them. And I

926
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 1: think one of the things that I realized is like

927
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: maybe the goal is nebulous, right, Maybe I'm not totally

928
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: sure of the goal. But what I do know is

929
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: that having money is going to help facilitate whatever that

930
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 1: goal ends up being. I don't think anyone has ever said, oh, gosh,

931
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: I wish I'd saved a less money, Gosh, I wish

932
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: I'd had, you know, more debt. I don't, you know,

933
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: I don't think people have really said that, And so

934
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 1: coming at it from that aspect, from you know, from

935
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: that perspective, Okay, I'm gonna put myself in a great

936
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: financial position and then I'll be able to make the

937
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 1: choices that I want to make. Yeah, lean towards savings first, right,

938
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: and I love how the Y can really help facilitate

939
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: frugality in your life. Hey, Liz, this has been just

940
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: such a fun conversation. Thank you so much joining us,

941
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: and and we'll link to your uber frugal challenge in

942
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,439
Speaker 1: our show notes. But can you tell our listeners where

943
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: they can find out more about you. You can find

944
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: me at frugal woods dot com and then I'm on Instagram, Twitter,

945
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: and Facebook at frugal Woods. All Right, we'll be waiting

946
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,720
Speaker 1: for that Instagram shot of your CEO two tank shortly.

947
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: All right, I will do that. Thank you so much

948
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: for having you, Liz. Thanks so much for coming on

949
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: the show. Thank you all right, Matt, that was such

950
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: a fun conversation with Liz. Obviously she is just an

951
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: honorary member of the podcast. Now that if she loves

952
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: craft beer as much as we do. Man, I don't

953
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: think we've had a guest on that appreciated craft beer.

954
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: I think as much as Liz does. She was naming

955
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: some great breweries and it's very clear that it's a

956
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: priority for them, so I I'm totally gonna let us

957
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: slide that. She also said craft beer was her splur.

958
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: She's gone like Steve Urkel level nerd nerd and out

959
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: craft beer just like we do, just come out the

960
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: other side as stefan. She's going that hard, super cool,

961
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: super cool. But Matt, what was your big takeaway from

962
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: this converse? Yeah, man, you know, for me, it was

963
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: really surprising and it really caught me off guard that

964
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: she mentioned how their homestead, their gardens, their fruit tree

965
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: is just all that they have going on there that

966
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: is not saving the money, that in fact, it costs

967
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: them a lot of money. And you know, we joked

968
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: a lot about her her gas tank for her salts

969
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: or water, about putting that on Instagram. But it makes

970
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: me think how there are so many homesteads out there

971
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: that you see on social media with these beautiful gardens,

972
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: their magazine worthy, you know what they're kind of putting

973
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: out there. But the truth is that those beautiful pieces

974
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 1: of land, those properties like all that costs so much money,

975
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 1: especially if you're gonna try to get it to look

976
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: good right like aside from it is producing something, if

977
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: you wanted to look great like that, it costs a

978
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 1: lot of money. And so I guess my big takeaway

979
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: there is to know that if you're gonna do something

980
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: like that, make sure that you're doing it for you.

981
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: And that's what her and Nate are doing. That they're

982
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: doing it because they value that lifestyle, they value being

983
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: able to grow their own food. But it's not because

984
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,399
Speaker 1: it's necessarily the super affordable option she made, and how

985
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: it's more affordable to live in a city because there's

986
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 1: so many things that you have access to, and it

987
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: might be easy for us, maybe for me living in

988
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: a city, to always think that the grass is greener

989
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: right on the other side, but in reality it's not

990
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: so for her, I think it was a great message.

991
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: It was a great way that she was showing that

992
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: she was living out what was important to her and

993
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: her family, living out there on that farm. Yeah, I

994
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: think some people idealize that rural homesteading kind of life,

995
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: and it sounds like they do have a really cool

996
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 1: life out there. For me, it's just not something that

997
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,439
Speaker 1: appeals to me at all, Like I see myself living

998
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: in a city probably for the rest of my life.

999
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: But I know you it's something you've thought about, But

1000
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: it is just interesting how people idealize it. And they

1001
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: also think they're going to save money, but that's not

1002
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: always necessarily the case. So I think my big takeaway

1003
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: was something that she said really struck me. She said,

1004
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: not everything can be prioritized. I think most of us

1005
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: walk through our lives and we don't think about cutting

1006
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: our own hair, or cutting our partner's hair, or all

1007
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:54,959
Speaker 1: these little things that we can do to save money.

1008
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: Fifteen bucks here, twenty bucks there. It all adds up,

1009
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: but basically we we can't probably ties everything. We can't

1010
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: do it all. And for willing to put more things

1011
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: on the table and cut back, whether that's literally cutting

1012
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: each other's hair or or other things that you just

1013
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: haven't really thought about, cutting out of your life or

1014
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: changing all together your approach to it. I think we

1015
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: could all stand to learn a bit from Liz's extreme

1016
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: frugal mindset, and we could probably put some expenses up

1017
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: on the chopping block that we previously thought were untouchable. Right.

1018
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: She said not everything could be a sacred cow, and

1019
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: I completely agree. I think we have too many sacred cows.

1020
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: We have too many things that we're unwilling to touch

1021
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: in our budget and in our finances every month. And

1022
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: if we were a little more willing to look a

1023
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: little more deeply and start cutting a little more viciously

1024
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: in regards to what we're spending every month, I think

1025
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: it actually might make us happier as well as lead

1026
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: us towards saving more money. Yeah, exactly, man, It's a

1027
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 1: good challenge to push ourselves to be creative in the

1028
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 1: ways that we're able to cut back and save money.

1029
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: All right, man, let's take it back now to the beer,

1030
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: which is something that you and I are not willing

1031
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: to cut back on. Never. On this episode, we had

1032
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 1: Boss Tweed, which is a beard by Old Nation. Man.

1033
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: This is a personal face of it for you. This

1034
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: is a personal favorite for me. This is a beer

1035
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: that I think I could never grow tired of. Yeah, man,

1036
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: it's pretty much pretty close to a perfect I p A.

1037
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: In my estimation. It's one that is pretty much always

1038
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: my fridge at this point. It randomly kind of showed

1039
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: up on store shelves in our city, probably about a

1040
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: year ago, and I distinctly remember a couple of people

1041
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: just raving about it, and so I picked up a

1042
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: four pack and I was like, Wow, this this is really,

1043
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: really really good. So yeah, I find myself drinking it

1044
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: a lot because it's so dang tasty. So I'm glad

1045
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: we're able to drink this on the show tonight. Man.

1046
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: Just a really solid I p A. And if you

1047
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: do have Old Nation Brewing at a at a store

1048
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: near you, go pick them up like tomorrow. Yeah man,

1049
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: it is that good. If you love I p A s,

1050
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 1: you will love this beer. It's a double I PA

1051
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: so it's got that perfect balance of sweetness but at

1052
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: the same time just incredible happiness. I literally can't get

1053
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: enough of this beer in my life, man, So that's

1054
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: gonna be it for this episode. You can find our

1055
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 1: show notes up on our website at how some money

1056
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: dot com. We'll have some links they're pointing you towards

1057
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: where you can find Liz online, including that super cool

1058
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: uber Frugal Month challenge. And if you like the show

1059
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: and if you want to be informed every time we

1060
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 1: released an episode, be sure to hit the subscribe button

1061
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: wherever you're listening. And we really appreciate you listening. Matt

1062
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: and I have a good time creating this podcast in

1063
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 1: the interaction that we get from our listeners is incredible,

1064
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: So thank you so much and Matt, that will do it.

1065
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: Until next time, Best Friends, house Friends Out