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Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

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Speaker 1: if you've got a growing family. Hello, they're happy Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Chuck Podcast. Well,

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite sayings used to be, if it

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Speaker 1: was Tuesday, somebody's voting somewhere, which means, if it's Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: we have some election results. And this happens to be

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Speaker 1: no ordinary Wednesday. It's a day after a special election.

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Speaker 1: I know the most devoted of your time podcast subscribers

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Speaker 1: and listeners caught our live stream or I hope caught

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Speaker 1: our live stream election show and partnership with Decision Desk

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Speaker 1: HQ and Chris Solisa. We were essentially watching the returns

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Speaker 1: with those that chose to watch with us, and we

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Speaker 1: had another huge turnout. We are overwhelmed by the response

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Speaker 1: we've been getting for these election night specials. Let's just say,

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Speaker 1: you're you're only encouraging us to do this more and more.

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Speaker 1: But in some ways, this is one of those special

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Speaker 1: elections where both parties are going to take something away

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Speaker 1: that they feel better about. Both parties are going to

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Speaker 1: look at this and say what could have been for

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Speaker 1: different rays, And in another way you look at it

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Speaker 1: is in some ways it changes nothing. It taught us

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Speaker 1: nothing we didn't already know. So I'm gonna start with

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Speaker 1: that part right. In some ways, this special election went

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Speaker 1: as expected. What do I mean by that? Well, as

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Scaleling said there at the end, it's like the

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Speaker 1: final margin of victory looks like to be somewhere around,

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Speaker 1: you know, somewhere between four and six percentage points, which

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Speaker 1: means you're looking at it at approximately a sixteen to

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Speaker 1: eighteen point Democratic over performance based on the twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four results, which is exactly pretty much in line with

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Speaker 1: what we've seen with various special elections. We've had some

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Speaker 1: special congressional elections. Two that happened in Florida. One had

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Speaker 1: a sixteen point over performance another one actually had a

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Speaker 1: twenty three point over performance for Democrats. Both are still

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Speaker 1: Republican victories like this one, but there was this over

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Speaker 1: performance right super red districts that suddenly got much closer

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Speaker 1: in a special election. In some Democratic victories, their over

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Speaker 1: performance has been in the sixteen to eighteen point range.

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Speaker 1: Why do I keep using this number sixteen to eighteen

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Speaker 1: And no, I'm not saying six seven. I'm not participating

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Speaker 1: in that nonsense. But the importance of that sixteen to

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Speaker 1: eighteen point range is that it's about the same number

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Speaker 1: that we saw in twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen special

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Speaker 1: elections going into that mid cycle, where that over performance

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Speaker 1: did end up translating to a good Democratic Knight. But

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Speaker 1: of course the question is is twenty twenty six going

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Speaker 1: to be another twenty eighteen or it's twenty twenty six

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Speaker 1: going to be something bigger, something akin to what Republican

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Speaker 1: You know, Republicans nineteen ninety four they swept both the

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Speaker 1: House and the Senate, or Democrats two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: where they swept both the House and the Senate. When

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Speaker 1: you have a to me at this point. A wave

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Speaker 1: is when you're the party out of power, you're not

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Speaker 1: holding either of the House and Senate, and after the

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Speaker 1: wave hits, you end up controlling both the House and

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Speaker 1: the Senate. And I think the question we're all looking

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Speaker 1: for is, is this in a political environment that is

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Speaker 1: developing into a wave for the Democrats right to You know,

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Speaker 1: we love our weather metaphors as political prognosticator types, and

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Speaker 1: there's clearly a storm brewing, and the question is is

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Speaker 1: this going to be you know, to use hurricane terms,

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Speaker 1: a Cat two, a Cat three, a Cat four, a

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Speaker 1: Cat five. Right, if it's a Cat one, Republicans probably

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Speaker 1: can hold both the House and the Senate. If it's

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Speaker 1: simply a Cat two or a Cat three type of storm,

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Speaker 1: where it's a bigger Democratic turnout than Republican turnout, more

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Speaker 1: enthusiasm on the left than the right, but the money's

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Speaker 1: kind of equal, the candidate performance is kind of equal.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's an environment that the Democrats probably wouldn't

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Speaker 1: control the House but come up short in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: This thing gets bigger than that and it becomes where

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Speaker 1: they can win both the House and the Senate, where

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Speaker 1: you start to have more retirements, and you have lopsided

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Speaker 1: candidate issues. And that's what we were watching for tonight, Right,

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Speaker 1: was the bottom going to fall out for Republicans. It's

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Speaker 1: been a rough couple of months for Republicans in general,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump specifically. The narrative is not going well. The

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Speaker 1: headlines aren't going well. Right, you look at the MAGA

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Speaker 1: coalition and there's been a lot of cracks in that coalition.

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Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green. The Jeffrey Epstein files created cracks. What's

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Speaker 1: happening in Venezuela, in Israel, in Ukraine has created some cracks.

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Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's a reminder, you know, Trump

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Speaker 1: Trump put together this coalition that doesn't really share any

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Speaker 1: sort of ideological values other than they don't like the

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Speaker 1: left right. There's a cultural bind that keeps this coalition together,

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Speaker 1: but there's not really an issue bind that keeps this

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Speaker 1: coalition together, you know, And so if you start to

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Speaker 1: see fracture, it's fracture that may be really hard to

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Speaker 1: put back together. And I think the fear Republicans had

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Speaker 1: about this special election in Tennessee that a loss would

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Speaker 1: essentially lead to the bottom falling out. And what does

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Speaker 1: the bottom falling out look like for Republicans, another ten

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Speaker 1: to fifteen House members deciding to retire and not seek reelection,

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Speaker 1: maybe a senator or two. That you don't that Republicans

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Speaker 1: thought we're going to seek reelection. That says, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm out of here. I'm not going to do this.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I don't want to either be in the

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Speaker 1: minority or worse risk losing my seat. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to go out that way. And a loss in this

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Speaker 1: special election would have been that, but that didn't happen, right,

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Speaker 1: So I think what we have is you have Republicans

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Speaker 1: feeling as if, Okay, there's a way to survive these midterms.

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Speaker 1: They can survive the storm that's coming. It's not going

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Speaker 1: to be pretty. They may lose some windows, they may

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Speaker 1: lose a piece of their roof. That's the equivalent of

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Speaker 1: losing House seats and losing control of the House. Maybe

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Speaker 1: the Senate goes from a three seat advantage down to

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Speaker 1: a one seat advantage, but they hang on to some

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Speaker 1: power in Congress.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 1: It's not a total loss if you're Donald Trump, and

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Speaker 1: if you look at and I think that that's what

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Speaker 1: each party's going to take away from this, right, I

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Speaker 1: think the Democrats are going to look and say, look,

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Speaker 1: we got an enthusiasm advantage. Voters are ready to walk

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Speaker 1: on broken glass to show up. The turnout in this

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Speaker 1: special election was was very high, but it also meant

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Speaker 1: it engaged the other side too. I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of Democrats are going to whisper today that hey there,

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Speaker 1: you know, imagine if they had a candidate that ideologically

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Speaker 1: fit the district better. Right this If you remember the

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Speaker 1: famous Connor Lamb special election of twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: that was sort of the first big, you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of tea leaf that when Connor Lamb won a district

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Speaker 1: that had been a double digit Republican district and he

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Speaker 1: won that special election, that was like whoa. And I

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Speaker 1: remember at the time Republicans were going, well, Democrats won't

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Speaker 1: find candidates like that in all these races. But it

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Speaker 1: was an acknowledgment that the Democrats had found almost the

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Speaker 1: perfect candidate to run in that district. That is not Aftenban, Right,

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Speaker 1: she was definitely the progressive in the primary. She was

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Speaker 1: outspent in the primary by more establishment candidates, and you know,

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Speaker 1: she was the more democratic socialist leaning candidate, if you will,

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Speaker 1: I think even you know had some kind things to

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Speaker 1: say about it. Let's just say anything she had said

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Speaker 1: positively about democratic socialism or progressive politics. Republicans found and

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Speaker 1: used it in their at and she ended up being,

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Speaker 1: in some ways the referendum in this race, right. It

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Speaker 1: was Republicans wanted this to be a referendum on her

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Speaker 1: and left wing politics. Democrats were hoping this would be

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Speaker 1: a referendum on prices, the economy, and Donald Trump. And

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Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is they both succeeded. Right.

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Speaker 1: Democrats succeeded in getting a turnout that made this race

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Speaker 1: incredibly competitive, fairly close, probably as close as they realistically

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Speaker 1: could have gotten it given the makeup of this district.

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Speaker 1: But Republicans got the nominee they wanted, right, And I

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Speaker 1: think that's what Democrats are going to ask themselves the

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Speaker 1: special had they had a Jim Cooper like Democrat. And

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Speaker 1: for those of you who are familiar with old Tennessee politics,

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Speaker 1: Jim Cooper was sort of an old school blue dog Democrat,

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Speaker 1: which was code for more you know, he was closer

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Speaker 1: to Joe Manchin on the ideological scale than even say

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Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer. Okay, I'm not even saying, you know, going

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Speaker 1: to AOC definitely was more center left than just mainstream liberal.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's going to be a fair, a

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Speaker 1: fair piece of analysis that you know, would that have

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Speaker 1: would that have been the difference? Right? A couple of

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Speaker 1: points been harder to paint, you know, somebody like a

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Speaker 1: Jim Cooper as a radical. But then you got to

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Speaker 1: ask yourself, if you're Republicans, can you do this in

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Speaker 1: forty races? Can you do this for thirty districts that

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Speaker 1: you've got to defend? Because it's going to be somewhere. Now,

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Speaker 1: you know, anything that is our anything that Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: won by say twelve to fifteen points, I think now

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Speaker 1: is a house seat. Realistically, the Democrats, that they find

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Speaker 1: the right candidate can potentially put in play. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: can they run the kind of camp essentially emergency triage

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Speaker 1: campaign that Republicans came in and ran. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: they deserve credit for this because you know, failing to

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Speaker 1: answer the bell on these warning signs and losing this

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Speaker 1: would have led to a total catastrophe. So doing the

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Speaker 1: triage sort of bought them some time and probably saved

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Speaker 1: a handful of retirements on this front, But can they

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Speaker 1: scale this right? You know, you might be able to

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Speaker 1: save a race here or a race there in this game,

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Speaker 1: but you're not going to be able to hope that

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Speaker 1: you get Democratic nominees that don't fit the district across

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Speaker 1: the country. Now, do I think Republicans are going to

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Speaker 1: get into the habit now of trying to actually play

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Speaker 1: in Democratic primaries, because that's been the biggest That's the

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Speaker 1: other difference between the twenty eighteen cycle and the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six cycle. In twenty eighteen, the Democratic leadership and

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Speaker 1: at that time, you know, and yes that included Schumer

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Speaker 1: and Pelosi, But back then they had a little more juice.

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Speaker 1: The Democratic Party had a little more credibility with its

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Speaker 1: own voters and donors that when they squeezed people out

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Speaker 1: of a primary, they listened and they said, hey, this

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Speaker 1: is who we were supporting, this is who the national

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Speaker 1: party wants. They could clear a primary field and they

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Speaker 1: could sort of minimize the number of nominees that we're

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Speaker 1: going to be too far to the left to win

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Speaker 1: general elections. They don't have that credibility this cycle. While

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Speaker 1: I think a bit more enthusiasm for Democrats. You also

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Speaker 1: have a national party that can't sit here and say

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Speaker 1: we're going to squeeze out this candidate, and the Michigan

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Speaker 1: Senate primary squeeze out and in some ways, an endorsement

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Speaker 1: from the national party for in certain primaries maybe a

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Speaker 1: kiss of death that it puts the scarlet e on

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Speaker 1: your coat for establishment right and in these days, being

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Speaker 1: part being seen as part of the political establishment, whether

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Speaker 1: you're on the left or the right, is not a

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Speaker 1: good place to be politically. So, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: that the challenge the Democrats have is they have a

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Speaker 1: great environment building. In fact, if you look at my

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Speaker 1: latest substack, I kind of think we're I think we're

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Speaker 1: sort of underrating what is growing here. I think this

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Speaker 1: is when you look at it, Yes, things look very

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Speaker 1: similar as twenty eighteen, but I sense that Trump's script

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Speaker 1: on his own party is loosening a little bit. And

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Speaker 1: ask yourself over the next five months, what good headlines

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Speaker 1: are going to help a Republican that's going to be

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Speaker 1: on the ballot in twenty six Right, they're having this

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Speaker 1: argument over extending the Obamacare subsidies. In fact, I believe

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Speaker 1: that had Ashton Bain won this special had the Democrat

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Speaker 1: pulled the upset. I think you've seen those subsidy extensions

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Speaker 1: like happen within forty eight hours. I still think they're

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Speaker 1: going to happen because I think Trump is going to

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Speaker 1: flip a switch in his polster who's been warning a

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Speaker 1: lot of Republicans that healthcare could be the issue that

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Speaker 1: takes down the Republican majorities in both chambers. That Trump

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Speaker 1: will end up weighing in and doing a one year

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Speaker 1: or two year extension because he just wants to get that.

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Speaker 1: They want to mitigate the damage. Not extending these healthcare

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Speaker 1: subsidies would do so. But the point is just that

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Speaker 1: fight alone, there's not positive headlines being created. Those are negative.

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Speaker 1: That's defensive headlines. Then you've got we've got a ter

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Speaker 1: ruling that's coming. Well, no matter what the ruling is,

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Speaker 1: it's a bad I think it's a bad headline for

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Speaker 1: the Republicans. Right. If if the Supreme Court upholds Trump's authority, well,

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Speaker 1: the market's going to go haywire. It means these tariffs

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Speaker 1: stay in place and the uneven economy continues, right, and

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Speaker 1: we have prices continue to rise, We continue to have

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Speaker 1: inflationary pressures, and we've weakened the global economy. And when

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Speaker 1: the global economy gets weaker, our economy can't get as strong.

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Speaker 1: You know, we might you know, I saw somebody cheering

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Speaker 1: on that that we you know Japan, you know, the

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Speaker 1: tariffs have really slowed down Japan's economy. That's not good

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Speaker 1: for America. Of Japan's economy, it goes into recession. That's

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Speaker 1: not anything to cheer. That's only going to hurt our economy.

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Speaker 1: Economies are too interconnected. So this is the naivete of

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Speaker 1: this whole teriff regime. But the more nationalistic we go

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Speaker 1: with our economic policy, the more nationalistic everybody else is

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Speaker 1: going to go with their economic policy. And that is

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Speaker 1: bad for prices, and that is bad for GDP growth

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Speaker 1: around the world, And it doesn't solve the income inequality problem,

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Speaker 1: and it just puts a sort of a wet blanket

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Speaker 1: over any economic growth. But you still have inflationary pressures, right,

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Speaker 1: Costs still go up because of these consumer taxes. We

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Speaker 1: call them tariffs, but they're nothing more than an additional tax, essentially,

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Speaker 1: a form of almost like a vat tax that Trump

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Speaker 1: has tried to institute here. But that's not going to

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Speaker 1: be a great headline. You've got what's happening in Venezuela,

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Speaker 1: where where you know, is this war even legal? Have

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Speaker 1: any of the you know, it's possible. Nothing is legal here, right,

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Speaker 1: There's been no congressional authority that you know is clear

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Speaker 1: to me that has given the president the authority to

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Speaker 1: do this. This definition of narco terrorism to me, is

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Speaker 1: a It is not something that's been tested in the courts,

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Speaker 1: whether you can truly I go to war and if

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Speaker 1: this is you know, is this a regular crime or

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Speaker 1: is it a homicide or a war crime. But either way,

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Speaker 1: the second strike attacking those that survived the first strike

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Speaker 1: in that first attack on the alleged Venezuelan and cocaine traffickers,

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Speaker 1: either one creates a congressional inquiry that again, this is

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Speaker 1: not a positive headline for the Republican Party and anybody

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Speaker 1: running for office. It is a headline that puts you

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Speaker 1: on the defensive at best, and if anything, may put

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Speaker 1: some Republicans in a place where they feel like they've

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Speaker 1: the more unpopular Trump is growing and his approval rating,

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Speaker 1: his disapproval rating continues to rise, and his his approval

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Speaker 1: ratings floating downward. I wouldn't say it's diving downward, but

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Speaker 1: it continues to float downward. You put all that together

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Speaker 1: and you're going to have in comment Republicans looking for

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Speaker 1: ways to subtly distance themselves from Trump. In fact, we

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Speaker 1: saw it in the special election. The most remarkable thing

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Speaker 1: about the Matt Van epsads is that they didn't use

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Yes, he phoned into a rally, right you know,

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Speaker 1: and the national media covered that rally, but you know

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Speaker 1: that was they did not want a picture of Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump with this candidate. He never used Trump's name, you know.

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Speaker 1: He certainly said I will fight for America first, and

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Speaker 1: used radicals, used different buzzwords that are very familiar buzzwords

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Speaker 1: in maga circles. But there was no use of Trump,

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Speaker 1: and there are going to be other Republicans are going

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Speaker 1: to be looking for specific places to start splitting from Trump.

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Speaker 1: They may do it on tariffs, they may do it

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Speaker 1: on Venezuela, they may do it on healthcare subsidies. But

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Speaker 1: the point is all of the near term events that

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Speaker 1: are going to impact this political environment, they all seem

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Speaker 1: like negative headlines right now for the Republicans. What is

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Speaker 1: going to be a positive headline that's coming up. Are

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Speaker 1: we suddenly going to see prices fall and saving these

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Speaker 1: accounts grow over the next six months. That doesn't seem likely.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the intangible here of Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: Trump fatigue. Don't I think we underestimate the length of

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Speaker 1: the you know, of the hold he's had on our politics.

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Speaker 1: Right it's been now over ten years that he's essentially

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Speaker 1: dominated politics. His movements about ten years old. And if

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Speaker 1: you look at the history of modern political campaigns, at

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Speaker 1: modern politics, which I defined modern politics as essentially the

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Speaker 1: end of World War two to now, you know, these runs,

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Speaker 1: these sort of cult We've basically had a series of

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Speaker 1: cult to personalities. It's not that parties have have runs.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like political personalities have run, right. You know,

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Speaker 1: Eisenhower had himself of basically an eight to ten year run,

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Speaker 1: and Kennedy Johnson had eight to ten years, and Nixon

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Speaker 1: had his ten year period. You know, Carter was sort

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Speaker 1: of a four year interlude, and Reagan Bush dominated about

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Speaker 1: ten to twelve years, and Clinton had his eight to

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Speaker 1: ten years, and George W. Bush and then Barack Obama

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Speaker 1: and then we're in the air of Donald Trump. The

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Speaker 1: point is is that it's really hard to extend this

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Speaker 1: to eleven and twelve years successfully. Right by the ninety midterms,

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Speaker 1: everything was petering out for the Reagan coalition. By the

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Speaker 1: twenty oh two midterms, the Clinton or Clinton coalition was

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Speaker 1: completely gone. By twenty sixteen, we saw the Obama coalition

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Speaker 1: already fracturing. It kind of got put back together during

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Speaker 1: COVID for Biden, but that might have been a bit

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Speaker 1: of a COVID effect than anything else. So I don't

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Speaker 1: think we fully appreciate that we're at the end. We're

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Speaker 1: at the end stages here of the Trump era. Is

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Speaker 1: it going to go out with a whimper? Is it

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Speaker 1: going to go out with a bang? Is it going

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Speaker 1: to be escorted out by the voters or sort of

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Speaker 1: fade away. I think that's the only unknown here, right,

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Speaker 1: and it being escorted out by the voters is a

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Speaker 1: wipeout in the twenty twenty six midterms. Fading away is

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Speaker 1: you know, losing the House, holding the Senate and staying

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Speaker 1: competitive in twenty in twenty twenty eight and so you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that I am sort of think I believe

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Speaker 1: we're underestimating the sort of the intangible Trump fatigue here.

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Speaker 1: And the fact is, when this economy sucks and the

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Speaker 1: economy member did not suck in twenty eighteen, that's a

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Speaker 1: big difference between twenty eighteen and now. You had a

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Speaker 1: people felt pretty good about that economy in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: and Democrats still won the House though they lost two sentences.

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Speaker 1: You're now going to have a similar enthusiastic democratic environment,

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Speaker 1: but with an economy that a lot of people don't like.

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Speaker 1: And I always say that because you know, the stock

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Speaker 1: market looks good, but the real world looks uncomfortable and bad, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think it's because the issue of costs is

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Speaker 1: really starting to pinch. And you know, now you've got

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Speaker 1: the high cost of electric bills and that's starting to

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Speaker 1: hit and that's being connected to these a ideals. And

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Speaker 1: I just think that Trump Trump now instead of being

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Speaker 1: teflon don, he's now wearing some beltcrow and whether it's

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Speaker 1: his weekly pardons that become less and less defensible, particularly

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Speaker 1: this one of the former Honduran presidential cocaine trafficker. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, on one breath, Donald Trump is going after

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Speaker 1: Venezuela because of cocaine distribution, and in the next breath

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Speaker 1: he's pardoning somebody who's responsible for my massive cocaine distribution

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Speaker 1: into this country. Is the only difference that Roger Stone

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Speaker 1: got paid for one and didn't get paid for the other.

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Speaker 1: I mean that that is an uncomfortable thing. And there's

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Speaker 1: not many elected Republicans that want to have to defend

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Speaker 1: that pardon. And Trump's doing this almost on a weekly basis.

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Speaker 1: Where there's some pardon that you're like, oh, BOYD, does

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Speaker 1: that stink? That's impossible to defend. In a normal political environment,

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Speaker 1: there might be borderline impeachable offense. We're obviously not going

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Speaker 1: to head in that territory. But the point is is

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Speaker 1: that not only are the macro is the macro environment

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Speaker 1: pretty bleak right now? If you're an elected Republican and

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Speaker 1: the headlines that you know are coming, there's sort of

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Speaker 1: the what Trump is doing to you, and you know

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Speaker 1: Trump is not thinking about the Republican Party at all.

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Speaker 1: Trump never has right. It is about himself and whether

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Speaker 1: it's these pardons, whether it's these personal business deals that

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Speaker 1: he cuts on behalf of his son, the weird business

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Speaker 1: relationships that is chief envoy in these negotiations Steve Woodcoff

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Speaker 1: is involved with, and the mixing of all this, none

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Speaker 1: of that's defensible. And when people don't, if people are

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Speaker 1: unhappy about the economy, that stuff will then really irritate them.

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Speaker 1: They overlooked it the first four years, they overlooked it

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Speaker 1: maybe during the Biden presidency, but if they don't like

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Speaker 1: their current situation, they're really not going to like you

430
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: benefiting Donald Trump while they're in this tough situation. So

431
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: that's why I'm a bit more bearish on Republican chances

432
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: of holding each chamber. And I think that the for

433
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: those that follow these political prediction markets, I think everybody

434
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: is under under rating Democratic chances of winning the Senate.

435
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: Fun little fact that I put into my sub stec

436
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: this week, and then I'm gonna We're going to transition

437
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 1: to my interview. There have been you know, since there

438
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: have only been six times six midterm elections. The first

439
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: was eighteen ninety four. But six midterm elections where the

440
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: party not in power in the White House won both

441
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: the House and the Senate in a midterm. It's only

442
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: actually happened six times. The last time was two thousand

443
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: and six. On election day, Republicans held both the House

444
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: and Senate. By the time all the votes are counted,

445
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 1: Democrats had flipped both the House and the Senate. The

446
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: Republicans did flip them both in ninety four. Then it

447
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: happened again in the fifties, and it happened again in

448
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: the forties. First time it happened was eighteen ninety four,

449
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: and it was Grover Cleveland's second presidential term. In the

450
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: midterm of that election, and he was dealing with the

451
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: depression of eighteen ninety three. Republicans sweep the midterms in

452
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 1: eighteen ninety four, and that second non consecutive term. Is

453
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: that familiar to anybody? Are we dealing with a president

454
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 1: in his second non consecutive term. The out party sweeps

455
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety four, and it foreshadows a big Republican

456
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: sweep in eighteen ninety six, which leads to sixteen straight

457
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: years of Republicans holding the presidency until Woodrow Wilson's victory

458
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen twelve. So that's the first time it happened.

459
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 1: Here's what was interesting that we've had thirty three midterm

460
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: elections since eighteen ninety four, and in twenty one of

461
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: the thirty three the out party picked up Senate seats,

462
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: and in eighteen of those twenty one instances the pickup

463
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 1: was four or more Senate seats. Well, Democrats only need

464
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: four Senate seats to win control of the Senate. I

465
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: know the map's not great for them when you're you know,

466
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: and this is sometimes I question whether the Democrats are

467
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 1: truly a national party because they don't. They barely contest

468
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: elections in a third to the states, and I think

469
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: that's why they may have a hard time putting enough

470
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: Senate seats in play with this particular map that they

471
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: have to run on. But if history is any guy,

472
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: the likelihood of them winning at least four Senate seats

473
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: is actually quite high. And so that's why I think

474
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: the bar I think people are underestimating democratic chances here. Look,

475
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: they still have a lot of recruiting to do and

476
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: finding a cannon in Kansas, finding a rallying around a

477
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: Canada in Mississippi, seeing if they can target places like

478
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: Kentucky or Alaska or Iowa. But they've got to put

479
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: a lot more races in play. But history says they

480
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 1: actually have a pretty good shot at doing it, Which

481
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: leads me to the rest of the rundown of this episode.

482
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to wrap things up here in a second

483
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: coming up. It's a conversation I have with Matt Higgins.

484
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: Matt's got a fascinating background. He spent ten years in

485
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: Washington trying to be a political guy, I say trying,

486
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: who's actually pretty successful. Worked a little bit in Washington,

487
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: worked a little bit for Rudy Giuliani, helped with the

488
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: work at Ground Zero during the redevelopment of Ground Zero.

489
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: Then sort of transitioned into the world of business. Was

490
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: a sort of a frequent Shark Tank guy, so some

491
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: of you who are fans of that show may recognize

492
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: him from there. Worked for a couple of professional teams,

493
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: the Jets and the Dolphins. But it's what he's doing

494
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: now that took up the largest chunk of our time

495
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: in the conversation. He's running a drone company that has

496
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: a pretty large contract with the Defense Department, And you know,

497
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: it sort of is in line of the conversation that

498
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: I had with Dexter Filkins a few months back about

499
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: what we've seen the changing nature of warfare and what

500
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: we've learned and what militaries around the world have learned

501
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: from the Russia Ukraine war that has really changed from

502
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: sort of what started as a fairly conventional war sort

503
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: of with twentieth century technologies, has really become a drone

504
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: war with the use of twenty first century technologies, and

505
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: what Matt describes as a US military that right now

506
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: is not prepared for twenty first century conflict. And the

507
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:09,959
Speaker 1: question is are we going to be able to get

508
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: prepared as fast, if not faster than our potential adversaries

509
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: and people like China and Russia, but more importantly are

510
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: smaller countries Are they going to be able to catch

511
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: up to US quicker thanks to drones and things like this.

512
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,719
Speaker 1: So it's fascinating conversation and it's certainly I think going

513
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: to be worth your time because I think This is

514
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: one of these uncomfortable converts that nobody likes to talk

515
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: about the military industrial complex in general, or you know,

516
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: the need for defensive weapons. But if America is going

517
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: to remain the superpower, it's going to have to figure

518
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: out and be a bit more nimble in the area

519
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: of drones. And it's and it's pretty clear that in

520
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: some ways where we have antiquated procurement systems in the

521
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: Defense Department. Still I wonder if we're going to be

522
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: able to move as fast as necessary to make sure

523
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: we don't fall behind. And then after that interview, I've

524
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: got a top five list that actually goes well with

525
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: what we're talking about tonight, which is top five center

526
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: races that Democrats if they actually can put the Senate

527
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: in play in twenty twenty six, then of my top

528
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: five list, one of them, at least one of them

529
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: has to be a single digit race and very competitive

530
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: by October if that's going to become realistic. I'll let

531
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: you get to the list before I tease which states

532
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: are in that. Of course, I have some Q and A.

533
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: So with that, yes, I have a lot to say

534
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: about the college football ESPN Invitational and all that nonsense,

535
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: but I'm going to save that for twenty four hours.

536
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: Get my thoughts together. I've poured my heart out about

537
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: all things Tennessee seven. I'd rather let that, let that settle,

538
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: let that simmer, and I'll see in twenty four hours

539
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: with the hottest of hot takes, not just on the

540
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: world of politics, but on the being invitational and the

541
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: leadership or lack thereof inside the acc So Gocaines, thanks

542
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: for listening. Let's sneak in a break when we come back.

543
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: My conversation with Matt Hagens all right, joining me now

544
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: is somebody who quite a bit of experience in the

545
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: world of startups and business and sports, also dabbled in

546
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: politics a little bit, and it is I thought it

547
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: would be an interesting conversation with somebody more in the

548
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: entrepreneur space, given I'm also in my own entrepreneur space.

549
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: So it's Matt Haiggins. I hope. I've he sort of

550
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: dabbled in politics at a time, working for Rudy Giuliani

551
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: back when he was mayor of New York City, but

552
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: has mostly been on the business side over the last

553
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: twenty years, but understands both sides of the street and

554
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: I kind of want to get a better understanding with

555
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: the business community how they really view politics, necessary, evil

556
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: or partner in different aspects. Matt, how'd I do in

557
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: describing your background?

558
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: Pretty good? I mean that hit the most important points.

559
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: Are you consider yourself a serial entrepreneur? How do you

560
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: describe your path in business?

561
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say I'm a super a serial entrepreneur.

562
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 2: I'm a builder, and my building impulses come from childhood.

563
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: I grew up abject poverty in Queens, New York. And

564
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: what does that mean. I took care of a disabled parent.

565
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: I would sell flowers on street corners and scrapecum tables

566
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: and McDonald's literally, so I really grew up with nothing,

567
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: and then I had to create my own path to

568
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: get out of poverty. I dropped out of high school

569
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: when I was sixteen, tok gd to go to college

570
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: so I could get a job. So that that faith

571
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: that I could architect my own life then began to

572
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: translate into just building businesses. We can go deeper into

573
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 2: any of that, but.

574
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's interesting. I'm to start there a

575
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: little bit because I for somewhat different reasons. I also,

576
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: I always say, end up growing up early. In some ways,

577
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: my childhood ended when my dad died at sixteen, and

578
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: you just does right your childhood you didn't sounds like

579
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: you didn't. Really you didn't have the traditional childhood there.

580
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: And I'm curious, as you've gotten more resources where there,

581
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: how you've scratched that itch. And I'll get to that

582
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: in a minute. But that is sort of what makes

583
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: this country. I always say, what makes this country different

584
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: is that there are different paths up the ladder. Yes

585
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: there are. It does feel like there are hurdles that

586
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: sometimes are bigger than they should be for the average American,

587
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: but it's not impossible to climb over them, right it is.

588
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: But I'm curious how you view Do you view your

589
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: success as hey, anybody can do this, or do you

590
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: think you had unique help at certain forks in the road.

591
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: Such a great question. The answer is both. I do

592
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: think that I always believe that education and work was

593
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: my way out of poverty, and those two never failed me,

594
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 2: so that's definitely true. I remember as a kid realizing

595
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: it was a lot better to be the person who

596
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 2: bought the flowers and put margin on them. R I'm

597
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: the kid who knocked on your window that was like

598
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: my first lesson on capital deployment. I grew up in

599
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 2: a really poor neighborhood in Queen's but I was also

600
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: very cognizant of the fact that there was a difference

601
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 2: between being a white kid and a black kid growing

602
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: up in that area. And to this day I still

603
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: feel and people say, what do you mean, what advantages

604
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 2: did you have? You grew up with nothing. Your mother

605
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: literally died when you were twenty six, so I was

606
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: living in a roach motel, and I was like, there

607
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: still was an advantage of being a kid who.

608
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: Grew up in that context, and so hay to be

609
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: totally cynical about this. You could get a cab a

610
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 1: lot easier than a black man your age.

611
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: Well, you know what it was. And I see. The

612
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: good part is I can transcend both sides because I

613
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: have a g came from nothing. So you can't tell

614
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: me I'm not credible to speak on this topic of

615
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: you know, is there any kind of eyes in the

616
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: world if you back when I was growing up, if

617
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 2: you've had a kid back then, at least in the eighties,

618
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 2: a black kid who had a ged, maybe there would

619
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: be a degree If it's confirmatory right. Lots of kids, uh,

620
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,479
Speaker 2: And I never had you meet you know, smiley, little

621
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 2: white kid, you know who's out there hustling and he

622
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: has a GD and you say, oh, what happened? So

623
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: I talk about that in my book like that is

624
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 2: that is a difference. Does that mean you can't overcome?

625
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 2: But of course not. I also have my own things

626
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: to overcome. I had a mother who's completely not equipped

627
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: to take care of kids, sadly, and she died rotting

628
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: in a chair. We had no health insurance, right, so

629
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: I had to overcome the absence of health insurance and

630
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 2: the trauma of raising a parent. And another kids had

631
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: to overcome the color of their skin. And so I

632
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 2: don't think any it doesn't you know what that's We're

633
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: in a funny time. It doesn't invalidate anybody's journey to

634
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: say that you had some type of built in advantage,

635
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: you know.

636
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: So well, it goes actually the other way. It's funny.

637
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: It's like it doesn't matter whether it's somebody who's a

638
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 1: scholarship football player on college team or somebody we are

639
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: almost we have convinced ourselves we all have to tap

640
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: into a her radio Alger story or we don't have

641
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: a story to share. And I don't know whether I

642
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think I worry that it almost encourages victimhood.

643
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 2: That's so funny you said that. I say. I get

644
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 2: asked this question recently. Somebody said a teacher at Harvard

645
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 2: Business School, and they were saying, oh, when you get resumes, now,

646
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: are you like, you know, you throw away those kids

647
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 2: from those elite schools because you only look at the

648
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 2: kids from who are downtrod. And I said, no, that's

649
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 2: not true at all. Actually, I have a greater appreciation

650
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 2: for what it would actually take to go to Harvard.

651
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 2: Number one. Number two, I have a built in excuse

652
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: why I didn't go to Harvard. I was working and

653
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: taking care of my mom for seven years going to

654
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: Queen's College. But could I have really gotten into Harvard

655
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: even if I didn't have the circumstances? So I agree

656
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: everyone now has to have this, you know, come up

657
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 2: and story of transcendence, and I think, honestly a lot

658
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 2: of people make it up or amplify it, but it

659
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 2: does create this culture of victimhood, and I completely reject it.

660
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: The reality is if I didn't grow up in that circumstance,

661
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 2: there is zero chance that I would end up going

662
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: from sixteen, you know, and Julian's secretary of twenty six.

663
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: And I, you know, it's funny, I say, that's it's

664
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: it is. It is true. It's sort of like sometimes

665
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: you see this with super successfully ambitious people where in

666
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: some ways they needed chase something, you know, in politics.

667
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: I always say, it's fascinating to me how many presidents

668
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 1: we've had that have had daddy issues. And I say

669
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: this with no disrespect to anybody. I have my own.

670
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 1: I My dad died at sixteen, So I'm constantly trying

671
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: to to help live the life that he should have

672
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: had and he never got to live. And he had

673
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: a variety and there's a variety of reasons for that.

674
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: And I've watched all these presidents, but there's something about

675
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,479
Speaker 1: if you don't have that drive, maybe you don't run

676
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: for president. George W. Bush or Donald Trump or Barack Obama.

677
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: But if you look at our particularly the last five presidents,

678
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: they've all had some form Either they were looking, you know,

679
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: searching for the father figure they never had see Bill Clinton,

680
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: see Barack Obama. Or they were trying to prove something

681
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: to a father figure, right, see Donald Trump, see George W.

682
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: Bush.

683
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: Arguably even you see it a little bit in Joe

684
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: Biden's story. But it is funny how this is why

685
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: I always say, you know, and I'm gonna guess it

686
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 1: is hard to imagine an alternative path because you don't

687
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: no other path than the one you than the one

688
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: you travel, right.

689
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the patterns that govern us. I always

690
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 2: govern us. I get made fun of a lot because

691
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 2: I use psychologists a lot in business all the time.

692
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: Because one time I went through one twenty five years

693
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 2: ago and revealed everything I thought I was hiding was

694
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 2: perfectly on display to anybody who worked for me or

695
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 2: around me. So I was like, apparently I'm bleeding out

696
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: in front of everyone. But a lot my decisions to

697
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: this day, you're talking about daddy issues, my mommy issues

698
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: that nobody helped, you know, nobody cared to intervene. And

699
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 2: I got to witness what powerlessness looks like up front,

700
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: and that there's no happy endings. She died without ever

701
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: taking a plane, and so I have these, you know,

702
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,879
Speaker 2: un boundless empathy that shows up for a single love.

703
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 3: But I agree, we're all just little creatures. Primitively, what

704
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 3: is your Let me ask you this, what is it?

705
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 3: How has it informed your views of the role of government?

706
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 3: And where where do you think government should be involved

707
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 3: in your life? Looking back now, where should government have

708
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 3: been more involved or less in Well?

709
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 2: Such a great question. I mean I take a cynical

710
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: view of both sides because I've been on both sides.

711
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: I've been up close. My earliest days. We're working for

712
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: a Democratic Congressman, Gary Ackerman back in Queen's I got

713
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: to see what that looked like, and I worked for

714
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 2: Rudy Giuliani for a while. Then I helped mid Romney's

715
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 2: campaign and John Mcca. I've been everywhere, and the reality is,

716
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: you know, when when let's just take on the left,

717
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 2: you know this sort of cynical over promising and then this,

718
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 2: you know, pop feel dis blame somebody for what you're

719
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 2: not given. As a kid, I was subjected to those

720
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: feelings too, like who's wronging me? Why is no one

721
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: taking care of me? And that didn't do me any,

722
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: to be honest. What did me good was cultivating my

723
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 2: belief that I have agency, that I can transcend my circumstances.

724
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 2: And so the answer is where does government belong level

725
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 2: the playing field? Passionate conservatism is something that has really

726
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: resonated with me as I've gotten older, but didn't What do.

727
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 1: You think that means now? I mean, because I don't

728
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: know what it means. I had an idea of what

729
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: George W. Bush meant by it. But what do you

730
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 1: think compassionate conservatism means?

731
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: I think it begins with empathy of somebody's circumstances and

732
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: trying to figure out a solution that you wish would

733
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 2: be advocated for if you were in the same position.

734
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: And so what does that really mean? We should figure

735
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 2: out a way that everybody can have health care, because

736
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: you would want that if you were not in that position.

737
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong though, with requiring people to work and

738
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: work as a path to self respect and self esteem.

739
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I don't know what it means,

740
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 2: but weirdly resonates with me. Is probably closer to the truth, right.

741
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 2: I just remember as a kid when we I would

742
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 2: be sold those empty promises too, and trying to point

743
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 2: you know, who's to blame for my servus. They didn't

744
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 2: do anything for me. What did something for me was

745
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: work and and so I think government's roles leveling the

746
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: playing field and approaching everything with a degree of empathy.

747
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: You've been sounds like the last chop.

748
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 2: I know. That's not like I didn't give you no.

749
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: I mean I get it. I mean I think it's

750
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: a fair no. And I think ultimately, you know your description.

751
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: I find that to be a fair description. I have

752
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: no you know, I don't feel the need to make

753
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: you follow up, which is, you know it sounds like

754
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: you believe in equal access, not equal outcomes, right, And

755
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: I think that sometimes there is a different I think

756
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: some people want equal outcomes, and that is that that

757
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: gets you in one type of redistribution of wealth versus

758
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 1: equal access, equal opportunity, which I think is ultimately probably

759
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: at the core of even what the founders thought they

760
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: were creating here in the United States, right, like this

761
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: is about creating so that you don't have to be

762
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: related to the king or you don't have right you

763
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: know at that time, right, you have an equal opportunity

764
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: versus equal outcome. And I think that that's always been

765
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: arguably one of the simplest ways to differentiate left and

766
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: right at times.

767
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 2: And one thing remains true whatever we are in our

768
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 2: current political climate and what people think, like, what's great

769
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 2: about this country that die is never cast. I love

770
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: the fact that I always say I'm here, I'm here

771
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,439
Speaker 2: in the circumstances I'm in through an accident of birth

772
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 2: that I didn't make a choice. But I'm really glad

773
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: that nothing about my future is going to be pretty

774
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 2: determined based upon where I was born.

775
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 1: I knew one at every single person born in America

776
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: or frankly born in the world. In theory, right, this

777
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: is what the Founders said, right, the life, liberty and

778
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: the pursuit of happiness. In theory, they were saying that

779
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,479
Speaker 1: that all of us, that that's we have the those

780
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: are the inalienable rights that we are born with.

781
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think we're struggling with where that pendulum

782
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 2: is right. Where where does leveling the playing field in

783
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: terms of trying to reckon with the past fit in

784
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: with the excluding other people who had nothing to do

785
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 2: with it, right, It's a really I mean, I'm hoping

786
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: that the pendulum comes right back to where it's supposed

787
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: to be, which is probably what will happen in the long.

788
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: Arc of his It always does, right, it always does.

789
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: I would say I'm not sure what period we're in

790
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: and what we're reckoning, to be honest, because there was

791
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 2: a period in which we had the exclusion with the

792
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 2: other direction, which isn't right answer either.

793
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: Well, what's interesting is that in the moment when we're

794
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: living through one of these transitional periods, right, and I

795
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: think we're in the middle of a realignment, and we

796
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: think every election is an answer to the realignment. Oh,

797
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: re alignment's over. No, we just don't have another election

798
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: for another two years, right, Like we're it just because

799
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: we hold you know, an election happens as a mean

800
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: realignment stopped. Right, We're sort of we're in the middle

801
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: of something, and we have been, frankly since the end

802
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: of the Cold War. Right, the country had a north

803
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: star defeating communism in the Soviet Union, Well, then we

804
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: did it. We've actually struggled with our next north star.

805
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 2: And what I find I wrote, I gave a commencement

806
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: speech at my mom's college, where my mom had went

807
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 2: the place she had any dignity, and I came back

808
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 2: and give gave the speech, and I was in my

809
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: speech I noted that when I was when she had

810
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: when I was there, when she was graduating on that

811
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 2: you know, same quad, the percentage of people that believed

812
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,479
Speaker 2: in gay marriage was completely flipped. So in the time

813
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: that it took for me to graduate and give that speech,

814
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 2: you know, a decade. And so I always think, I

815
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 2: use this metaphor of tacking, you know, with a boat

816
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 2: that doesn't look like it's forward progress, but if you

817
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: were looking down from above, you would see it's moving.

818
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 2: We are always moving. Our values aren't evolving. And then

819
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: there are these reckonings where the pendulum swings violently one

820
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 2: way or the other.

821
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: Way, turning an aircraft carrier, you know, I mean, we

822
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: are an aircraft carrier and moving. It takes a long

823
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: time to turn. But watch out when we turn, you know,

824
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: we're a powerful force. So let's get into the world

825
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: of business. It sounds to me over the last twenty

826
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: five years, the first half of it you spent in politics,

827
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: the second half in business. Is that roughly the split.

828
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: That's probably right. I mean, I started so young, so

829
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: I've had a degree of a little bit before scum career,

830
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 2: because if I started with Giuliani, I started as a reporter,

831
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: actually a cub reporter in when I was seventeen and

832
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 2: then I started Rudy when I was maybe twenty and

833
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: I became Pressbactoria by twenty six, so I've been able

834
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 2: to leave multiple lives. So I was a first employee

835
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 2: and one of the first of the redevelopment of the

836
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 2: World Trade Center site, and then I became chief operating officer.

837
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: So I spent two years of ground zero at the

838
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 2: age of twenty nine, I guess my government career ends.

839
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 2: So and I'm fifty, which I cannot believe fifty one.

840
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, every check engine light's going to go off, brother,

841
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: just trust me.

842
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 2: I'm feeling it.

843
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I feel it because I rarely I don't

844
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: think I interviewed anybody older than me anymore. It feels

845
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: like everybody I'm interviewing as well. Another building three. Yeah, no,

846
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: I'm making you feel better A couple of years older

847
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: than you.

848
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

849
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: But so tell me on the transition to business. The

850
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 1: longer you've been on the business side, has it, how

851
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: has it changed your view of politics?

852
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 2: Well, when you're in politics. Anybody in politics can relate

853
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 2: to this when they leave one of these heady jobs,

854
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 2: like when I had to leave being press secretary of

855
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 2: the mayor or the ground zero. There is this fear

856
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 2: that you're just not going to be valued the same

857
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: by the society. And then once you step out, you

858
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 2: realize you're in an ecosystem that a lot of people

859
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: are frankly apathetic about. First, that bothers you don't you

860
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 2: realize how important it is to work with the mayor.

861
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: And I worked all night and I showed up to

862
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: every crisis, and you realize, oh, it's because you're trying

863
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 2: to feed yourself and you want government to exist in

864
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 2: the background, and you don't want it to occupy every

865
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 2: minute of your life, which is why.

866
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: The theory of I ascribe to the theory of the

867
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: clog toilet that most people view don't want to think

868
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: about government, and then when the toilet's clogged, they don't

869
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: want to think about the plumber until the toilet's clog,

870
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 1: and they really hope they don't have to call the plumber.

871
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: That's how most people view government. They just don't, Yeah,

872
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 1: just make sure the toilet plushes.

873
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 2: I thought that was like, that was unsophisticated and apathetic.

874
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: I don't understand how important it is to be dialed in.

875
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 2: But as I've gotten older, I realized, no people just

876
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 2: want to take care of the family, have a degree,

877
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 2: which is why I'm sure we have collective adrenal fatigue

878
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 2: at the moment because you're bombarded with politics, you know,

879
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 2: every day.

880
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: But yes, so yeah, go ahead, finish.

881
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: No No, I was making the point that was one

882
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 2: of the things that was the first transition I had

883
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 2: to get used to going into is that that people

884
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 2: didn't care as much as I thought they cared, and

885
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: then as a result, there is a degree of narcissism

886
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 2: when you're in government that you think there's nothing more important.

887
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,520
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Speaker 1: It's interesting, and it's uh it's true, right, it's by

916
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: the way, true the media side.

917
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: Apologies at city Hall or where No.

918
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you know, look, I didn't get

919
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 1: into this to become a celebrity reporter or whatever you

920
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,919
Speaker 1: want to call that. And unfortunately or it happened, right,

921
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: It just it's I say unfortunately because I think the

922
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: personalization of the media has politicized the media, where when

923
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: we were more of the fourth estate mindset, where we

924
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: you know, we were there, we were that we were

925
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: a check and balance. You know, we were a branch

926
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: in some ways, the fourth branch, and that meant we

927
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: were supposed to be a check and balance, not necessarily

928
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: picking a side type of mindset. But then you know,

929
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: the politicians in some ways surfaced us up individually in

930
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: order to whack us down right like. And that's that's

931
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 1: the mistake. We collectively made it because we individually could

932
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: get more station and more or prominence, but it actually

933
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: collectively weakened us as the individual became.

934
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 2: This conversation I was obsessed about when I was there.

935
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: I started as a cub reporter. I thought I was

936
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 2: I was going to go work for the City section

937
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 2: of the Times and always investigative pieces. Bob wouldword owned

938
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 2: a piece of my newspaper, so he nominated me for

939
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,919
Speaker 2: a pultzer. Anybody by the way, but it sounded good

940
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 2: when I was at city halls apress like. I used

941
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 2: to be obsessed with the fact that each reporter has

942
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 2: own their own context, that they live in, that cultivatessonal bias.

943
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 2: But yet you're holding me accountable in a pseudo objective way.

944
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 2: We believe all the news that's you know, but no

945
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 2: one's actually revealing your bias. I used to be obsessed

946
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 2: by shouldn't there be a way in which I could

947
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 2: look into your bib your background, I can assess whether

948
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 2: or not you bring some type of bias to the table.

949
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 2: Now we will the other direction, But I.

950
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: Would argue this, and this is where I just don't

951
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: accept the premise of I think bias is the wrong

952
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 1: part of this conversation to have, right, because we're born

953
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 1: you just you said it earlier in this conversation. We're

954
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: all born with original bias. Who you're born to, where

955
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: you're born, your circumstances, your geography, your socioeconomic status, color

956
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: of your skin, all of that is original bias, all right,

957
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: And it's just the life you lead where you grow up,

958
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: how you grew up. It just, you know, So I

959
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: always want to know where somebody. I always want to

960
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: know where you grew up and how you grew up

961
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: that I have an idea of the different biases that

962
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: may have contributed to your political worldview. I sort of

963
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: get it, you know. I do my best to try

964
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: to be transparent about you know. I always say I

965
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: was lucky enough to grow up in a household where

966
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: my parents canceled each other's vote out and talked about it.

967
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: So I heard the conversation that they had about Reagan

968
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: versus Carter, and I remember it very intuitively. And my

969
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: mother just couldn't bring herself to vote for Reagan. Thought

970
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: Carter had to go. So she writes in Gerald Ford,

971
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: my father's a big Reagan guy. But hearing the conversation

972
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: and then reading about it later as an adult, you

973
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: realize that it was the conversation of many voters were having.

974
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: It was sort of like they knew Carter needed to

975
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 1: be fired. They just weren't comfortable yet handing the reins

976
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: to Reagan, and they were trying to figure that out.

977
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: And it is so I grew up I was. I

978
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: always say I was lucky to grow up hearing those conversations,

979
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: so at least understanding how my parents were a microcosm

980
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: of a debate about that. But you know, as far

981
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: as bias and a reporter, to me, it's not about bias.

982
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: Every reporter is going to have a bias. Are they fair?

983
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: I think fairness is the only That's why I never

984
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: accepted the premise of fair and balanced. You can't balance

985
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: the truth. All you can do is be fair. Are

986
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: you a jerk to boat everybody that's the press secretary

987
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: to the mayor? You know those reporters. Some reporters are

988
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: just irascible, right, They're just going to be a pest

989
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 1: no matter who which side of the isle they come from.

990
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: And then there are those that get in the tank,

991
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: and you know who those are pretty quickly too.

992
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think we're saying the same thing about

993
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 2: was saying twenty five years ago, the idea that somehow

994
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 2: a context let's not call bias, let's call this your framework.

995
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: Wherever you grew up at environment sure influenced how you

996
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: chose the lead or how you chose the first quote

997
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 2: was sort of rejected back there, this like you know

998
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: that there was some theoretical objectivity about writing, which is

999
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 2: impossible to obtain. And now I think the pendulum has

1000
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 2: gone so far the other way that we can't trust anything,

1001
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 2: which I don't think is the right view. The right

1002
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 2: view is we should assess how you've chosen to present

1003
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 2: those facts and understand that you have your own implicit

1004
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 2: context that's shaping how you write an article. Now we've

1005
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: gone well, now we can't trust anything, which I can

1006
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 2: I completely reject. But back then it was interesting. You

1007
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 2: couldn't have the debate that somehow are you the way

1008
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 2: you chose that first quote might have been influenced by

1009
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 2: your background.

1010
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: Now you're right and it's true and you get that,

1011
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: and then the question becomes and I always say this

1012
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: about covering a story or covering a person. Right where

1013
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,280
Speaker 1: there was this debate about plat, you know, deplatforming Trump,

1014
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: which I think when if I were to say, what

1015
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: did legacy meant? Why did they essentially knock themselves out right?

1016
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: And I always believe this was a self inflicted wound

1017
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: in this respect, deep platforming Trump was couldn't have been more,

1018
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, couldn't have been a bigger mistake. And I

1019
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: thought it internally. I thought it externally because it sort

1020
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 1: of got to this. It it sort of the voters

1021
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: decided to platform these people, right, You, as a reporter,

1022
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: are there to explain what's happening, to tell people what's happening.

1023
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: But hey, the voters have done this. And if you

1024
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: don't accept the premise as a political reporter that you

1025
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: know so and so is important because the voters have

1026
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: decided it is, then you don't accept the premise of

1027
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: the democracy.

1028
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 2: Which is amazing. I never would have thought, I mean,

1029
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 2: you were similar ages that we could have such a

1030
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 2: shift in the collective way we express ourselves and social norms.

1031
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: And these are the algorithms. To me, it's the algorithms

1032
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: that have destroyed us. I mean, to constantly feed people.

1033
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you strike me as somebody that probably sought

1034
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: out you want contradictory information, I do. The tech companies

1035
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: make it impossible to get contradictory information that isn't sort

1036
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 1: of overly contradictory, right, It isn't well thought out contradictions.

1037
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: It's just almost partisan contradictions. It's very hard to get

1038
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: a more balanced view because I can't curate what I want.

1039
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 1: The algorithms keep trying to curate what they think I

1040
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: want because I match some profile. That is what I

1041
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: think has been so destructive to the trust of the media.

1042
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. If you're on Twitter, I mean that's

1043
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,760
Speaker 2: your whole existence, right, you could see where you're spending

1044
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 2: your time.

1045
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: I want Elon musk Ney's to get off his own platform.

1046
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: You know, if you spend only your time on there,

1047
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 1: you think the world is on the brink of a

1048
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: civil war every night.

1049
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:48,439
Speaker 2: It's true.

1050
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: Get off of online and you realize now most people

1051
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: are pretty comfortable living in this country. They're basically pretty

1052
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: you know. You know, they wish the economy were more even,

1053
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: and they wish a lot of things. But we're not

1054
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: ready to pull guns on each other. But that's not

1055
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: the way it feels on Twitter sometimes.

1056
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a new approach, by the way, which

1057
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 2: has really been helpful for how I approach both business

1058
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 2: and my sanity is an idle after I check in

1059
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 2: on it, so I have to go through the extra

1060
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 2: step of reinstalling it, which has been so healthy productivity

1061
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 2: wise and otherwise. Because to your point, it was I

1062
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 2: couldn't tell what's real or are we on the brink

1063
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 2: you know, or are we as Kim Kardashian launching a

1064
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 2: new you know, sweatpants on skims Like it's like, what's reality?

1065
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 2: So I literally deal everything? But LinkedIn LinkedIn is like

1066
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: eating vegetables and lima beans all day, like it's not

1067
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 2: going to hurt you.

1068
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's funny you say that because LinkedIn

1069
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 1: has become a fairly trusted space, and I've been interested

1070
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 1: as to why that is. And I think the users

1071
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: of LinkedIn don't want it to become like X. And

1072
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: I think LinkedIn at least those folks realize, Hey, be careful,

1073
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: don't overserve people what they want here, or you might

1074
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: create yet another Instagram or another X or another Facebook

1075
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:59,479
Speaker 1: that just divides and that isn't what the LinkedIn community wants.

1076
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's to your point. Now you don't get the extremes,

1077
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: which is good, but you also don't get any toxic toxicity.

1078
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: No, it does it. Well, let me get back to

1079
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: your world of entrepreneurship, and do you it is you've

1080
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: had more of a background in sports than any other

1081
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: sector of business or is that am I overreading? No?

1082
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: It is.

1083
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 2: I can give you a quick for the audience. So

1084
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: I've had a crazy career in business and that I

1085
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: partnered up after running the Jets, and then I ran

1086
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 2: the Dolphins as a vice chair. So I ran two

1087
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 2: NFL teams in one capacity at least off the field.

1088
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: For a career post. So you worked for Whatody Johnson?

1089
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: Did you work for Steve Ross?

1090
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 2: Well, I have this philosophy andes for anyone listening is

1091
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 2: like never put yourself in a box. So as a

1092
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 2: kid who grew up in a certain box right object poverty,

1093
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 2: total dysfunction, I had to get out of that box.

1094
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: And government was my path. What's great about government is

1095
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 2: it has a bias towards young people because then they

1096
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 2: don't wan's dumb enough to work these hours, and they

1097
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 2: believe too finally, like you know that the cause matters

1098
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 2: and you know whatever it takes. So I put in

1099
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 2: those crazy hours. But in fairness, government didn't judge me

1100
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 2: for being a poor kid wearing second hand clothes and

1101
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 2: living in a roach motel. Was I going to put

1102
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 2: in the hours and that was my first path out.

1103
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 2: So that was one box. I knew that if I

1104
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: didn't transcend from being Press secretary, ID always be the

1105
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 2: press guy. But as you know chalk, the press guy

1106
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 2: or girl ends up running a lot of the power. Right,

1107
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: they have a lot more power than you would ever believe.

1108
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: More Now, I'm not at first boy. When I first

1109
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: started covering politic ninety two was my first campaign professionally,

1110
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: and the press shops were definitely.

1111
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 2: Down.

1112
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: The totem pole right fundraisers were held in higher esteem,

1113
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: the media consultants were held in higher esteem. The policy

1114
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: person was helt. I think of the twenty first century

1115
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: that is completely flipped. And I think now the communication side.

1116
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: I mean, look, even in business in two thousand, there

1117
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: was probably not a single Fortune five hundred company that

1118
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: had a chief Comms officer that the word Comm's office

1119
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: coms in a C suite title did not exist. Now

1120
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: that a majority of Fortune five hundreds have that title.

1121
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: So I do think we've transitioned to believing that communicating,

1122
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: whether in politics or business, is now a front of

1123
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: brain lobe. Right, It's a frontal lobe necessity in order

1124
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: to succeed.

1125
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 2: I think that's true so externally, but internally in the

1126
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 2: Apparasa government, that comms person, if they were good, was

1127
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 2: all powerful because they had proximity. They have proximity. So

1128
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 2: I was close to power and I had that power externally,

1129
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 2: though back to your point, it would not be seen

1130
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 2: as anything. So my whole life is career in business

1131
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 2: has been about breaking out of those boxes. And the

1132
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 2: first box was to become an operator. I became chief

1133
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 2: operating officer of the World Trade Center site, and now

1134
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 2: I had this new skill of being able to manage

1135
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 2: complex variables in a land used context in a city

1136
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: of New York, and I use that to join the

1137
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 2: Jets to run their effort to build a stadium. Now

1138
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 2: I'm in a new box. I'm in a business guy.

1139
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 2: I'm running a sports team. And then but my dream

1140
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 2: was to build businesses from scratch. And then I became

1141
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 2: partners with Steve Ross, owner of the Dolphins, so left

1142
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 2: that last skill to run the team, but started doing

1143
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 2: what I would really wanted to do, was build businesses

1144
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 2: from scratch. And so now I'm at the end of

1145
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 2: this journey of Okay, Now I'm a builder. I build businesses,

1146
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 2: and I've been able to do it in different different contexts,

1147
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 2: communications but also a military of a pretty significant drone company.

1148
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 2: Now that is very important and it serves the US

1149
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 2: Army and a bunch of other government agencies that I'm

1150
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 2: the co founder of. So so it's been this constant evolution,

1151
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 2: but leveraging the last thing I did to get out

1152
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 2: of that box.

1153
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: Let's uh, let me start with the drones, because I

1154
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: think I had a long podcast interview with Dexter Filkins,

1155
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: who's one of the best war correspondents, living war correspondents

1156
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: that we have, always embeds himself in different variety of places.

1157
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: Is just one of those war correspondent is just wired

1158
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 1: differently than most reporters. And you know, he wrote a

1159
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:57,479
Speaker 1: big piece.

1160
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 2: It's a great movie in the Civil War. By the way,

1161
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 2: have you seen it? About it war? About war photographers?

1162
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 2: You have to see this movie a document, it's a movie.

1163
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 2: I don't think it did that that well, but it's

1164
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: actually fantastic and it covers it's a theoretical you know, oh,

1165
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 2: the Civil War movie.

1166
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: I refuse to watch it. I didn't like. I don't

1167
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: well because I think it plays off of some cynical

1168
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: stereotypes of our political discourse these days, not the actual

1169
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: but war a photographer that I yeah, well, what I know.

1170
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:31,439
Speaker 1: What Filkens was writing about though, was just like how

1171
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: much warfare has changed. Just in the three and a

1172
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 1: half years we've been in a hot war between the

1173
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: Russians and the Ukrainians and how that is probably and

1174
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 1: it's panicking the Pentagon at the moment that basically we

1175
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: are prepared for a war we'll never fight, but we

1176
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: are not prepared for the next war we're going to fight.

1177
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 1: And it's been the acceleration of drone war drone warfare

1178
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: that is really catching the Pentagon off guard. And I

1179
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: imagine it's been a pretty big boom for your business.

1180
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 2: Right, let me tell you the origin story, since we

1181
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 2: were talking about patterns in childhood. But when I partnered

1182
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 2: with Steve Rossby started writing checks into some nascent sports.

1183
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 2: The first check I wrote was into the drone Racic

1184
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 2: League in twenty fifteen, and my partner, who's you know,

1185
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 2: now eighty five, But back then it's like, what the

1186
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 2: hell or why is anybody gonna watch flying robots? Fair point,

1187
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 2: But nonetheless took a flyer and as I got closer

1188
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: to the technology that.

1189
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: By the way, two hundred years ago, do you think

1190
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: people said, why would anybody want to watch two horses race?

1191
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: And eventually it became a thing. Why would anybody want

1192
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: to watch two cars race?

1193
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, So that was my logic, and also

1194
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 2: who cares to fly? But as I got close to

1195
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 2: what we were inventing, we broke the Guinness Book World

1196
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 2: records for flying a drone one hundred miles an hour.

1197
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: We were organizing drone races in stadiums, so you have

1198
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 2: to fly around the crevice, you know, make sure there

1199
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 2: was no latency between the drone and the pilots.

1200
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: Sounds like the Star Wars prequels. You're describing an arena's

1201
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 1: and stadiums. Since that getting to the point of the story.

1202
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: Because of my pattern recognition and because I was on

1203
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 1: the ground at the World Trade Center site on Church

1204
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: Street looking up at that building, I always have had

1205
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: that terror and that just intersectional military very clear to

1206
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:18,919
Speaker 1: me early on and my co founders that Pandora's box

1207
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 1: has been opened, and that that actually at the time,

1208
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: China was running an economic sabotage campaign to undermined the

1209
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: entire US drone market.

1210
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 2: Those close to it knew what China was doing. We

1211
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 2: didn't know the ultimate endgame, but completely undermining the US

1212
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 2: drone market. So in twenty seventeen we started working on

1213
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 2: standing up someb rosa a company to make sure that

1214
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 2: we had this technology on us soil. Nobody at the time,

1215
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 2: there was no market, there was no anything, So we

1216
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 2: put it into all Alabama. We put tens of millions

1217
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 2: of dollars through the value of death, which is the

1218
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 2: long period of time it takes place to win a

1219
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 2: single contract. So my point to you is, I've been

1220
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 2: living this nightmare for a long time, and then Ukraine

1221
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 2: starts and everything changes. Bring you forward. Our drunes are

1222
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 2: fitting a rugsack. They can enable a warfire to call

1223
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 2: in their own air support on the edge. It does

1224
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 2: a ton of things. But what's remarkable is how incredibly

1225
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 2: behind our country is and how hard this administration has

1226
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 2: been working to catch up. You could say whatever you

1227
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 2: want politically, but what the Trump administration has tried to

1228
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 2: do in this category is so overdue and so necessary.

1229
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 2: But for the longest time, people just were ignoring it.

1230
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 2: Ukraine has been on the radar for years now, right,

1231
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 2: but there wasn't a lot devoted to it in any

1232
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 2: meaningful way. So when you see the Pentagon scrambling to

1233
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 2: catch up, it's because the need is so urgent and

1234
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 2: it was it was going unaddressed, not not entirely. A

1235
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 2: lot of good people in the military were trying to

1236
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 2: stay on the alarm.

1237
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: Right, So are we to you know, sort of sort

1238
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: of going forward if all warfare is going to be Yeah,

1239
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, we go to robotic war.

1240
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 1: Of course, the biggest, you know, the biggest concern I

1241
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 1: would have about that, right, is the other intended consequence

1242
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: of automating warfare. Does it one allow smaller countries to

1243
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,959
Speaker 1: potentially be on equal footing if you're essentially just buying

1244
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: robots that's one.

1245
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:11,919
Speaker 2: Two?

1246
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 1: Does it make if if does it make it easier

1247
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: to kill? If it looks like a video game, right,

1248
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 1: which has always been a I think of fear that

1249
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 1: the the the drone wars, if you will become sort

1250
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: of almost like you know, life imitating sci fi, right,

1251
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: the Clone wars. You know, if the if the damage

1252
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: to humanity is minimal, does it increase the likelihood that

1253
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: that people go to war or does it decrease it

1254
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: because there's less casualties or does.

1255
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 2: It decrease it because it's futile and we just simply

1256
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 2: know it's AI generated you know, warfare?

1257
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: But allah that I allow, so that it's mutual assured

1258
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: destruction is growing back to the old ICBM.

1259
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 2: Right. But let's before we get to that deterrent, we

1260
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 2: need to go through this phase. I'll tell you my

1261
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 2: hierarchy of things I worry about. World Number one, the

1262
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 2: United States needs a drone arsenal that we don't currently have,

1263
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 2: particularly FPV drones. The administration is working over time to

1264
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 2: fix that problem, to their credit. But what I care

1265
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: more about. I was watching a documentary for some reason.

1266
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with this nineteen eighties period of the Mujadin

1267
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 2: and what we did in Afghanistan through proxy wars, right,

1268
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 2: and then we gave the Stinger missiles you know, to

1269
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 2: the Mujad dein right, and it ended up haunting us

1270
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 2: because now Stinger missiles are everywhere similar in Ukraine, our

1271
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 2: adversaries are getting a PhD and how to operate an

1272
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 2: FPV and all the tactics, which is forget about IP.

1273
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 2: That knowledge is very scary. That knowledge. Once this war ends,

1274
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 2: it's going to be disseminated to bad actors all over

1275
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 2: the world. So we post Afghanistan and we need and

1276
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 2: don't have, nor does any country on Earth have a

1277
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 2: multi layered solution to an incoming drone attack for not

1278
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 2: just a swarm, but just like any drones. And so

1279
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 2: there's a whole effort behind the scenes to do whatever

1280
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 2: we can to get ready. But I think that is

1281
01:06:57,680 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 2: the scariest part of it. So how are they related.

1282
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 2: You need to master offensive drone tactics on your soil,

1283
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 2: including the supply chain, to also be able to understand

1284
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 2: defense because they go hand in hand. So there's a

1285
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 2: tremendous effort behind the scenes to redomesticate all the means

1286
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 2: of production around drones. And the most important part of

1287
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 2: that is magnets. You cannot make drone motors without magnets,

1288
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 2: and magnets are not made in the United States. So

1289
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 2: when you read all this geopolitical stuff coming on magnets,

1290
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 2: it all goes back to drone wars. So back to

1291
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 2: your point, Chuck, maybe one day it becomes mutually assured

1292
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 2: destruction and therefore a deterrent, But in the interim, there

1293
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 2: are a lot bigger problems I think to get there.

1294
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 1: So you view this as an arms race, right, China

1295
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: is trying to start a drone up that we're in.

1296
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: We're sort of in the early days. This is like

1297
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons circa nineteen fifty five.

1298
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 2: I think it is the biggest arms race that we've

1299
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 2: had since nuclear weapons and is not one answer to it.

1300
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 2: And I think drones eventually become like the rifle or

1301
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 2: the artillery, the one five to five shell. You need

1302
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 2: all sorts of different kinds. There's no question, and it

1303
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 2: was very intentional. I don't know if China had the

1304
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 2: foresight to recognize we're going to undermine the US domestic

1305
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 2: drone industry through And for those who don't know, I

1306
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 2: know I'm going on on about this, but I will

1307
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 2: make it very simple. We used to make a lot

1308
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 2: of drones in this country, and then Dji came along

1309
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,680
Speaker 2: and started selling exquisite drones that are really, to this

1310
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 2: day incredible at a suspiciously low price. And what ended

1311
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 2: up happening is a lot of the drone makers in

1312
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 2: the US disappeared, and at the same time, all law

1313
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 2: enforcement in the U. In the United States, I think

1314
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,680
Speaker 2: almost ninety percent now used Chinese made drones. So a

1315
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 2: dependency was created in the US on these drones, and

1316
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 2: now there's no drone industry to fill it. So they say, okay,

1317
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 2: well why can't we just build a drone industry. It

1318
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 2: cost a lot of money to make a competitive consumer drone.

1319
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 2: It's up four billions of dollars and then okay, well

1320
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 2: the military can help. If there's no demand signal from

1321
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 2: the military, then there's no market. So that's what's being

1322
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 2: fixed right now. Government is putting out affirmative demand signals

1323
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 2: so that a domestic drone industry can sprout up.

1324
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

1325
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,000
Speaker 1: there's a reason. Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

1326
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,839
Speaker 1: law firm. For the last thirty five years, they've recovered

1327
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

1328
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

1329
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:20,320
Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

1330
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

1331
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,639
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, one client was awarded twenty six million dollars,

1332
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

1333
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

1334
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty

1335
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:38,759
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, so with more than one thousand lawyers across

1336
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 1: the country, they know how to deliver for everyday people.

1337
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: If you're injured, you need a lawyer. You need somebody

1338
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 1: to get your back. Check out for the People dot com,

1339
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: Slash podcast or dial pound Law Pound five to two

1340
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: nine law on your cell phone. And remember all law

1341
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: firms are not the same. So check out Morgan and Morgan.

1342
01:09:57,479 --> 01:10:04,720
Speaker 1: Their fee is free unless they win. What's the biggest impediment?

1343
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 1: So if you've got a defense department that says, hey,

1344
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 1: we're ready to be the biggest customer, that obviously matters

1345
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:12,799
Speaker 1: a lot. What's the next impediment you talked about magnets?

1346
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:14,600
Speaker 1: What would it take for us to be able to

1347
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 1: produce our.

1348
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 2: Own government has to speak in very concrete demand signals

1349
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 2: so that the different drone companies out there can raise

1350
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 2: the venture funding against it. We still aren't quite in

1351
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,719
Speaker 2: that place. Two as just having the means of production

1352
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 2: to build those drones at scale all very insurmountable in

1353
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 2: the next twenty four to thirty six months.

1354
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: You know, the surmountable, not insurmountable.

1355
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I should have said surmountable. Thank you.

1356
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 1: I know that's one of those words, but we don't

1357
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: always know. You know, we say insurmountable a lot. We

1358
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 1: never say surmounting.

1359
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 2: That is surmountable in the next thirty for thirty six months.

1360
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:49,840
Speaker 2: What we need to work on as a country before

1361
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 2: there's a disaster is this multi layered counter drone solution.

1362
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 2: That part is the part. There's lots of directed energy

1363
01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 2: and you know, catch a drone with a net. There's

1364
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:01,560
Speaker 2: all sorts of you know, geeky solutions, but none of

1365
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 2: them quite broad together stitch together in a solution that

1366
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 2: could protect a city.

1367
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 1: Well, I was just going to say, let's let's go

1368
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: back to your coming Arguably, I'm going to guess is

1369
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 1: in some ways you're almost coming of age moment right

1370
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 1: being being press secretary on the ground during nine to eleven.

1371
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 1: You know, now, if those nineteen hijackers and if those

1372
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: folks planning that attack on America, they you know, they

1373
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't have used airplanes, they'd be they'd be it would

1374
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:32,600
Speaker 1: have been a drone like assault on us that we

1375
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: were quote unquote not ready for, right, we were not

1376
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 1: back then. The biggest what was the biggest criticism of

1377
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:41,520
Speaker 1: the intelligence community both you know, it didn't matter partisanship.

1378
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 1: It was simply failure of imagination.

1379
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,880
Speaker 2: Rights all the time. We have a failure imagination right now.

1380
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:49,680
Speaker 1: And I think right now it sounds like what you're advocating.

1381
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,280
Speaker 1: And some might be a little say, well, he'd make

1382
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 1: his business, will make money on this bet. Well, look,

1383
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: the drone wars are here, whether we whether whether we

1384
01:11:58,320 --> 01:11:59,560
Speaker 1: like it or not, we got to come up with

1385
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: some sort of per perimeter. I mean, I look, some

1386
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 1: of us laugh at the Golden Dome, right you know,

1387
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 1: I'll uh, the Iron Dome type of security structure that

1388
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 1: that we've helped Israel build. I don't know if we

1389
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 1: can put an entire dome essentially invisible dome over the

1390
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 1: continental United States, but we do need some sort of

1391
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 1: security field on drones that you could picture could suddenly.

1392
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the panic. Do you remember the

1393
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,879
Speaker 1: panic about six to nine months ago over the drones

1394
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 1: off the coast of New Jersey And it turns out

1395
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 1: they were weather drones, right you know. I mean that's

1396
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 1: the problem. We don't even know the inventory of drones

1397
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 1: that are constantly in the air all the time as

1398
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 1: it is.

1399
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, So first of all, I live in New Jersey,

1400
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 2: so everyone assumed I had the answer to that, which

1401
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 2: I which I I don't believe anybody did, which should

1402
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,640
Speaker 2: tell you something. Second, whether I stand a benefit, I

1403
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 2: actually don't do counter uas. But regardless, that's not even

1404
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 2: the point the point.

1405
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,960
Speaker 1: Of course, but I did want to just that everybody's Yeah.

1406
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 2: It would be fair, it would be fair. I don't

1407
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 2: want people to reject it base it on, So it's

1408
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 2: it's a fair suspicion. More importantly, we live in a

1409
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 2: paternalistic society subconsciously, so we presume when we walk into

1410
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 2: a stadium, somebody's got that figured out, right, Like there's

1411
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 2: a way that somebody could get and let me tell

1412
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 2: you something. They don't have it figured out. And so

1413
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 2: if you know that they don't have it figured out

1414
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 2: and we are vulnerable. We know that nine to eleven

1415
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 2: was a failure of imagination. We know that there was

1416
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 2: a cell, for example, in Europe, a Hesbala cell that

1417
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 2: had been ordering drone parts on Amazon. We know that

1418
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 2: AI is going to make autonomy and automatic target recognition,

1419
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 2: these kinds of tools that enable a drone to fly

1420
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 2: with no signature. They're going to make it possible for

1421
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 2: anybody to do a eighteen year old, you know, aspiring

1422
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 2: parist in the next twenty four months, we know these

1423
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 2: things are happening, then we know that we need a national,

1424
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 2: multi layer solution. Unfortunately, the problem is we don't always

1425
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 2: learn from the past, so we don't respond until something happens.

1426
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 2: That's my biggest fear again, and maybe, like I saw,

1427
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 2: have a lot of trauma from nine to eleven. To

1428
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 2: be honest, if I take the train to New York

1429
01:13:56,479 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 2: and I get stuck underneath the tunnel, I have a

1430
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 2: total panic attack of texting my wife just stay with me.

1431
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 2: I know this sounds totally unbalanced, and I'm fifty years old.

1432
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:08,759
Speaker 2: So I live with the memory standing under those towers,

1433
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 2: just thinking like, how does that happen?

1434
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 1: Well, I always thought, I'll be honest, I always thought, Matt,

1435
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 1: that DC in New York nine eleven was personal for us.

1436
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:22,840
Speaker 1: I mean I was in d C. I was at

1437
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:25,799
Speaker 1: the Watergate building. We were seeing smoke come from the Pentagon.

1438
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: I was trying to keep my staff as calm as

1439
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 1: you could in a situation you had no idea what

1440
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:32,759
Speaker 1: was happening. Our offices were acrossed from the Saudi Embassy.

1441
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:39,759
Speaker 1: We were all freaked out, and it's always been remarkable

1442
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: to me that the rest of America cared for as

1443
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 1: long as they did. But the fact of the matter is,

1444
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:48,599
Speaker 1: think about your reaction to Oklahoma City. You probably had

1445
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 1: a visceral reaction at first, and then over time because

1446
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 1: it wasn't in our face every day, we sort of

1447
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: it ventured to the back of your brain. Being a

1448
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: New Yorker. Nine to eleven doesn't venture back to your

1449
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:02,839
Speaker 1: brain being a DC or nine to eleven never ventures

1450
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 1: back to my brain. Right, I know I live. We

1451
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 1: can argue about whether it's New York or d C,

1452
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 1: but we know that they are two of the most

1453
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: biggest targets in the world. Right you know, I've I've

1454
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:17,760
Speaker 1: always sort of since nine to eleven had a all right,

1455
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 1: if I think of nuke's coming, what am I doing?

1456
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:23,040
Speaker 1: You know, where am I going? And can I leave

1457
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:25,600
Speaker 1: in time? How much time would I actually have? And

1458
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 1: would I mean, in the.

1459
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 2: Last subway car, I was thinking, that's not the one

1460
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 2: to tear. It was a strike, you'd strike the middle.

1461
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:33,840
Speaker 1: I mean, like we interesting, it's good, but that's the point.

1462
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 1: It's sort of like and I and I do wonder,

1463
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: right when you think about it, we don't really have

1464
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 1: you know, there's most you know, yes, there's a New

1465
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 1: Yorker's president, and there's two New Yorkers in leadership, and

1466
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:49,759
Speaker 1: certainly people that were here when nine to eleven happened

1467
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 1: that are kind of still in power, though not many

1468
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 1: of them left. You do wonder how much of that

1469
01:15:56,120 --> 01:16:00,680
Speaker 1: contributes to this lack of realizing that, hey, we might

1470
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 1: want to look at nine to eleven is okay, what's

1471
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:05,439
Speaker 1: the next nine to eleven look like? What could we

1472
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:10,520
Speaker 1: be missing? Drones feels like some combination of cyber sabotage

1473
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:14,599
Speaker 1: and drones feels like the most likely way next sort

1474
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 1: of tragedy that we quote miss as a society that

1475
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:19,800
Speaker 1: we have to fix.

1476
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And I don't know quite how you

1477
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:24,599
Speaker 2: sound the alarm to make people hacked, because then people say, well,

1478
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:26,280
Speaker 2: what am I supposed to do about that? Right at

1479
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 2: the end of the day. But the difference the next

1480
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,719
Speaker 2: nine to eleven is next nine eleven doesn't require elaborate

1481
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 2: flight training at a flight school. It's a simulator that

1482
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:36,599
Speaker 2: you do online. It requires parts that you could buy

1483
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 2: in Amazon. It's just so much very It's a different attack.

1484
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 2: There is there is a way to counter it, but

1485
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 2: it requires such a multi layered federal, state, local solution

1486
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 2: that I think is the part that hasn't come into focus.

1487
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 2: So when you read the government pentagon eyone advocating, it's

1488
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,519
Speaker 2: because they know more than you do about the true

1489
01:16:56,600 --> 01:16:58,920
Speaker 2: nature of threat and how at the moment where we

1490
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:03,640
Speaker 2: are unflanked. I could go this, I don't have.

1491
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 1: But that's that's all right. That's what makes a good

1492
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,280
Speaker 1: that's what makes a good conversation. Let me get you

1493
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: out of here. On sports, I was like you, I've

1494
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 1: gone back and forth in sports and politics in the media.

1495
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:22,880
Speaker 1: I helped found the Sports Business Journal, which is used

1496
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 1: to be called the Sports Business Daily, so you probably

1497
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 1: were familiar with it back in your Jets and Dolphins days.

1498
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this.

1499
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 2: Thank you Chuck for that.

1500
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:33,080
Speaker 1: Oh congrats, all right? You know my man a mat core,

1501
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:35,000
Speaker 1: he knows how identify him. So good, good for you.

1502
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 1: So what makes a good NFL owner? And does it matter?

1503
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: Because it is a socialistic enterprise, right, even a bad

1504
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 1: owner makes money because everybody makes money in the NFL.

1505
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:51,640
Speaker 1: What do you think separates a good owner from a

1506
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 1: bad owner?

1507
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 2: Such a great question. Well, yeah, your audience might be

1508
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:58,400
Speaker 2: surprised if I've been around a lot of owners work

1509
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 2: for two directly, but know all them sit at the

1510
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 2: table at the NFL for a long time. Every single

1511
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:05,560
Speaker 2: one of them desperately wants to win. So there's some

1512
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:07,760
Speaker 2: sentences and they're in for the money. No, they're in

1513
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 2: it to compete the competing.

1514
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 1: They bought a trophy. I've always said, they bought trophies.

1515
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:14,600
Speaker 1: There's thirty two trophies to own in the NFL. And

1516
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 1: these guys, you know, they're just another Bill Simmons has

1517
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 1: this and he's like, you know, if Woody Johnson doesn't

1518
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 1: own a sports team, nobody knows Whoddy Johnson is.

1519
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 2: Well, there's there's that. Also, any one of them have

1520
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 2: different levels of success and failure. They're not on display

1521
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 2: every Sunday, so they're now stepping into the arena where

1522
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:34,920
Speaker 2: they're where their success. So that's number one. I never

1523
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 2: met somebody who was appetite about winning and didn't.

1524
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 1: Really want no right because they're already rich guys, so

1525
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 1: they want something to get as much money as they

1526
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:43,960
Speaker 1: got right now. They want to now they're good to

1527
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:45,760
Speaker 1: play in the rich guys circle. And they want to

1528
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 1: beat the other rich guys. Right.

1529
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 2: I think what makes a good owner for owner probably

1530
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 2: makes what makes a good CEO or business owner anywhere else,

1531
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:55,040
Speaker 2: is you have very strong values and you telegraph them

1532
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 2: and apply them consistently throughout the entire organization. Like you

1533
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 2: really you believe in what you believe you are. Consistent

1534
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:05,439
Speaker 2: values can form around that. Consistent because an owner is

1535
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 2: an asset too, because it means it's not changing every

1536
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 2: every two years. Right, we're not president of the United States,

1537
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:12,240
Speaker 2: got eight years, right, An owner could have thirty years.

1538
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,720
Speaker 2: And so I think consistent values that spread through willingness

1539
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 2: to invest and play the long game, maybe not respond

1540
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 2: to headlines and make changes, you know, on a win.

1541
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 2: Number one bad quality would be placating the press you know,

1542
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 2: or or or or an uprising of sorts by making

1543
01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 2: a short term move, because then you're then you're under

1544
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 2: You're undermining the very benefit of the fact that no

1545
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 2: one could displace you. You're an owner, no one can

1546
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:36,639
Speaker 2: fire you. So you should be able to make long

1547
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 2: term decisions, even more so than a publicly traded CEO. Right,

1548
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:41,639
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's it's it's your.

1549
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:44,680
Speaker 1: Why do you think it's so hard to build a

1550
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 1: winner with the Jets?

1551
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:47,880
Speaker 2: What do I think it's so? Why do? I Let

1552
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:49,200
Speaker 2: me ask you why it's so hard to build a

1553
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:50,040
Speaker 2: winner with any team?

1554
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 1: I mean, I was, I was some teams look at

1555
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:56,640
Speaker 1: the look at the Steelers. The Steelers are consistently competitive,

1556
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 1: which is all you can ask for in a in

1557
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: an owner. They put they seemed why did this? Steelers

1558
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:05,160
Speaker 1: are always in the mix and the Jets can't be well?

1559
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 2: I think without speaking to the Jets, I was around

1560
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 2: Winny for a long time. I'll tell you what. He

1561
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 2: cares deeply as much as any owner.

1562
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:14,240
Speaker 1: I believe he does. But he's not had success. And

1563
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:16,160
Speaker 1: I'm just curious if it's just bad luck or you

1564
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 1: think it's something else.

1565
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 2: And I've been around the Dolphins too with Steve, and

1566
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:21,880
Speaker 2: they tried, you know, really hard to win. I think

1567
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:23,559
Speaker 2: the first answer is that it's that it's really hard.

1568
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 2: I think the Steelers have had success. If I go

1569
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:28,160
Speaker 2: back to my first criteria I told you, right, values

1570
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:29,840
Speaker 2: that float out from the bottom, that are that are

1571
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:32,560
Speaker 2: imviewed in the organization. Sometimes the Steelers probably could be

1572
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 2: judges being rigid or you know, they stick to their

1573
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 2: own not bridges, wrong word, but you know, you get

1574
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 2: the point. I think that the Steelers have a phenomenal,

1575
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 2: you know, culture. But the non satisfying answer I'm going

1576
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:46,680
Speaker 2: to give you is that it's really hard. If you

1577
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:49,160
Speaker 2: you right, you can't give me the formula. And I

1578
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:51,000
Speaker 2: was around it for fifteen years, and I can't give

1579
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:51,639
Speaker 2: you the formula.

1580
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:55,680
Speaker 1: I don't think even today's really smart football fan understands

1581
01:20:55,720 --> 01:21:00,639
Speaker 1: that quarterback is ten times harder to better or whether

1582
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: it's a bad quarterback or not, than it is to

1583
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 1: be a running back. Like I'm all for Jonathan Taylor

1584
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:07,639
Speaker 1: being the NFL MVP, but I promise you all thirty

1585
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:10,839
Speaker 1: two starting quarterbacks job is much harder than Jonathan Taylor's,

1586
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 1: and it's hard to convey that. I think the Manning

1587
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:16,600
Speaker 1: broadcast does a good job of conveying the difficulty of

1588
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 1: being the coach on the field, but it's the only

1589
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 1: place you get that come.

1590
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 2: It's the other hard, hard job to hire as the coach.

1591
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 2: I've been involved multiple coaching searches. The one thing consistency

1592
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 2: I've seen is the pendulum always swings violently from one

1593
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,760
Speaker 2: direct of the other players coach think a disciplinarian.

1594
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:33,560
Speaker 1: Then yeah, well the joke is like, you know, the

1595
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:37,080
Speaker 1: first thing a new coach does is decides what to

1596
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:39,200
Speaker 1: do with a ping pong table. If there's a ping

1597
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:41,599
Speaker 1: pong table in the locker room, they take it out.

1598
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 1: Oh this is a serious coach. If there wasn't a

1599
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:46,519
Speaker 1: ping pong table in the in the locker room, they

1600
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 1: put one in. Oh this is a different But it's like.

1601
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 2: The second thing they do they paint. They paint the

1602
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 2: walls and they put up new slogans which I always

1603
01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 2: look sobody now some of them are good, Rex, Ryan

1604
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:58,839
Speaker 2: gam Me one, you appreciate you play through the whistle,

1605
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 2: play through the way, her her herm ed where's you

1606
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:04,920
Speaker 2: played it? You play to win the game?

1607
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 1: You know.

1608
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 2: Eric Mangini, who.

1609
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:09,639
Speaker 1: Is you know, very smart of the man, genius.

1610
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, he had all his own things. Like what

1611
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:16,200
Speaker 2: I found. There is always a consistent attempt on the

1612
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:19,639
Speaker 2: coach level to bring a control and try to isolate

1613
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:21,680
Speaker 2: some variables that can make the difference, you know.

1614
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:25,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, it is true. But whatever the culture was,

1615
01:22:25,479 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 1: you just change it to the other culture.

1616
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 2: Right, So back to what you wanted, which youlied a

1617
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:32,719
Speaker 2: good owner. You want a good owner as a culture

1618
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 2: that can transcend coaching changes.

1619
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 1: Uh, Matt, this was great. I am out of I

1620
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:40,600
Speaker 1: think we're both running up against time. I appreciate the

1621
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 1: uh so is the drone world? Your full time job? Is?

1622
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 2: That?

1623
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:46,439
Speaker 1: Is that where?

1624
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:48,519
Speaker 2: This is what I was meant to be working on.

1625
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:50,800
Speaker 2: It's from a degree of destiny. It's that brings me.

1626
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:52,599
Speaker 2: It's the most important work I've ever done in my life.

1627
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 2: I get to be around the military all the time,

1628
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 2: and it is mostly what I focus on now peacefully

1629
01:22:57,160 --> 01:22:58,600
Speaker 2: you how much of.

1630
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 1: Your business is commercial and how much of it is

1631
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,160
Speaker 1: all defense contracting? These days? Oh so hard.

1632
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:04,800
Speaker 2: We only own a lot of brands and a lot

1633
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:06,760
Speaker 2: of businesses, But in terms of where I put my time,

1634
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 2: over half half of my time is spent on this.

1635
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:11,760
Speaker 2: We have other businesses, but this is where my heart,

1636
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:15,360
Speaker 2: my energy goes because the mission is so important, That's

1637
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 2: where I spent my time.

1638
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:18,600
Speaker 1: Well, this is something that I have a feeling. I

1639
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 1: want to be checking in with you a lot more

1640
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 1: because I do. I don't think Washington official Washington is

1641
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 1: fully aware of how dramatically warfare is changing right now,

1642
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 1: and we are we we just are it explains why

1643
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:38,920
Speaker 1: they You know why there's so much effort in the

1644
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 1: in the tech community, and I know it's at times

1645
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable with how much government and tech are fusing,

1646
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 1: but it is because of this panic of the nature

1647
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 1: of the change in warfare.

1648
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 2: Is a danger. We're so part as an only leave

1649
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 2: you with this. It's so easy to dismiss the efforts

1650
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:56,400
Speaker 2: based upon which side of the ali you're on. But

1651
01:23:56,520 --> 01:23:59,519
Speaker 2: the one thing I can deliver you from the other side, Hey,

1652
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:03,519
Speaker 2: this patch, which is the response, is because there's exiting

1653
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:06,599
Speaker 2: crisis happening that we need, we need to stand up

1654
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:11,200
Speaker 2: this industry and you. Lastly, the seventy percent of all

1655
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:14,679
Speaker 2: kills or casualties in Ukraine are caused by a flying

1656
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:16,439
Speaker 2: object the size of a dinner plate that you can

1657
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:18,640
Speaker 2: make for eight hundred dollars. You can't make it here

1658
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:21,400
Speaker 2: for eight hundred dollars. But what does that tell you?

1659
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:24,760
Speaker 2: So the second question is our adversaries North Korea, all

1660
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 2: our different enemies are getting a PhD and how to

1661
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 2: make these in scale and them very quickly. So what

1662
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:33,360
Speaker 2: you're reading about is because of that threat and that

1663
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 2: we're not.

1664
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:37,479
Speaker 1: One hundred percent No, I think we just generally all

1665
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:41,679
Speaker 1: need a better education in what is happening at the moment.

1666
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:44,360
Speaker 1: I mean, this is unfortunate. We cover the war in

1667
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:46,920
Speaker 1: Ukraine now through the prism of how it ends. We

1668
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 1: don't actually cover the war in Ukraine collectively anymore through

1669
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 1: what's happening in the moment, and that that's probably actually

1670
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:57,720
Speaker 1: is hindering your ability to communicate the urgency of this

1671
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:01,240
Speaker 1: and frankly mine as well. We need more pictures of

1672
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 1: what's happening in the moment.

1673
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 2: I agree, thanks.

1674
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 1: Exactly. Other than that, enjoy the end of the year holidays.

1675
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:21,479
Speaker 1: The exactly good to meet with it like that. Well,

1676
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Matt Higgins. Look,

1677
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:26,479
Speaker 1: every once in a while we want to showcase some

1678
01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 1: folks that you may not know, may not be household names,

1679
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:32,560
Speaker 1: but they know, but they're innovating, or they're in a

1680
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 1: part of the economy or in the world of national security,

1681
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:39,200
Speaker 1: like in Matt's case, where there is where there is

1682
01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:42,479
Speaker 1: something to learn and something to understand. And you know,

1683
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,560
Speaker 1: as if you recall the interview I had with Dexter

1684
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 1: Filkins regarding the changing basically the changing nature of warfare

1685
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:57,080
Speaker 1: of military warfare. Then you understand what's happening in the

1686
01:25:57,160 --> 01:26:02,000
Speaker 1: world of drone warfare and how transformational this is going

1687
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:06,799
Speaker 1: to be. Is it going to make war easier to conduct,

1688
01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: harder to win, easier to win, fewer human casualties or

1689
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:14,519
Speaker 1: does it lead to more human casualties? Right? You know,

1690
01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:18,760
Speaker 1: if the personal cost seems low, does that increase the

1691
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:28,000
Speaker 1: likelihood of leaders escalating military conflicts or not? So I

1692
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,439
Speaker 1: think it turned out to be an important conversation and

1693
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:35,680
Speaker 1: certainly something that I'm glad to be more familiar with.

1694
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 1: So with that, I want to transition a bit. Look,

1695
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:42,640
Speaker 1: given what happened in Tennessee, I thought it would be

1696
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:46,880
Speaker 1: worth focusing my top five list before I get to

1697
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:50,800
Speaker 1: the as check segment. I thought it would be worth

1698
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:53,719
Speaker 1: focusing the top five list this week on five Senate

1699
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 1: races that are not competitive at the moment. They're Republican

1700
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 1: health seats, but what I would call is blue wave

1701
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:09,720
Speaker 1: watch Senate seats. To top the five I'm going to

1702
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:14,719
Speaker 1: give you are or my five nominees for what happens

1703
01:27:14,760 --> 01:27:18,080
Speaker 1: in an actual wave. Is that a Senate race that

1704
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 1: was not on the map a year out ends up

1705
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:26,640
Speaker 1: flipping in two thousand and six, there were sort of

1706
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 1: three candidates. There were arguably four candidates for that. Three

1707
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:37,280
Speaker 1: candidates really for that For that idea, you had Virginia

1708
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 1: Senate at the time, a Democrat had n't want to,

1709
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, had Chuck rob But it was the sense

1710
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:46,080
Speaker 1: that Virginia was still a Republican state. George Bush carried

1711
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 1: Virginia in two thousand and four. Democrat hadn't carried carried

1712
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: in a presidential race since Carter in seventy six. So

1713
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:54,599
Speaker 1: the perception of Virginia was that it was a tough place.

1714
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,240
Speaker 1: So and Jim Webb was an unusual candidate. George Allen

1715
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:02,280
Speaker 1: was a perspective presidential candidate. It was a race that

1716
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:04,920
Speaker 1: developed late and popped on the radar late, and then

1717
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 1: it was a flip. And then it turned out to

1718
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 1: be a canary in the coal mine. It turned out

1719
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:12,599
Speaker 1: to foreshadow was a growing shift of Virginia from light

1720
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:16,839
Speaker 1: red to now light blue. But each one of those cycles,

1721
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 1: there's always a seat or two that you're like, well,

1722
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:23,880
Speaker 1: how did that happen? Sometimes it's a special election win

1723
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: in the Senate side. Scott Brown's victory in Massachusetts it

1724
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 1: was it a seat could hold on his own in

1725
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:30,840
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. Nope, that's what gave us Elizabeth Warren. But

1726
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 1: in that unique environment, in that moment in time, that's

1727
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 1: how much the ground had shifted underneath Democrats when it

1728
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:42,800
Speaker 1: came to the issue of health care, and it certainly

1729
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:45,920
Speaker 1: foreshadowed what was not a very good mid term. So,

1730
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:48,800
Speaker 1: with that caveats out of the side, here are my

1731
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:51,719
Speaker 1: nominees of the five. You know, and like I believe,

1732
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:55,439
Speaker 1: I think all five of these Senate seats have a

1733
01:28:55,600 --> 01:29:00,160
Speaker 1: chance to become shockingly competitive. And I'll explain what the

1734
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 1: unique circumstance for each of them, but they are ones

1735
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:04,920
Speaker 1: that have been written off, right, and I'm not even

1736
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:07,599
Speaker 1: talking about Alaska and Texas don't make this list because

1737
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 1: or even Nebraska, because they're already seen as quasi competitive

1738
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:15,360
Speaker 1: at the moment. Right Alaska, especially if Democrats get Mary Patello,

1739
01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:17,720
Speaker 1: Texas looks like it's going to be competitive, no matter

1740
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:19,600
Speaker 1: what part of it is demographics, part of it is.

1741
01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:21,640
Speaker 1: Explain to me how John Corny gets out of that

1742
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:25,559
Speaker 1: gets fifty percent plus one after a runoff. Really hard

1743
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 1: to see that, and without him as the nominee, suddenly

1744
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:31,760
Speaker 1: that becomes a winnable race. Although the Democratic primary is

1745
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:34,960
Speaker 1: a mess there. It's a topic for another day. But

1746
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:40,479
Speaker 1: these don't count those races to me. You know, it's

1747
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 1: the job of the Democratic Party to put those races

1748
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:46,320
Speaker 1: in play because they're competitive enough sort of on paper.

1749
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:49,640
Speaker 1: Then then it becomes, hey, you should be able to

1750
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:51,920
Speaker 1: find candidates, you should be able to target those races.

1751
01:29:52,360 --> 01:29:54,559
Speaker 1: The five states I'm going to be emphasizing here are

1752
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:57,680
Speaker 1: not obvious. A couple of them would have been ten

1753
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,160
Speaker 1: years ago, but they're not obvious at all. And what

1754
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:03,760
Speaker 1: I would theorize for you is that if Democrats, you know,

1755
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 1: if I go into a coma and I wake up

1756
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:08,200
Speaker 1: the day after the midterms and you tell me Democrats

1757
01:30:08,240 --> 01:30:12,000
Speaker 1: flip the Senate, I'm going to guess one of these

1758
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 1: five races was either actually flipped or was one of

1759
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:20,800
Speaker 1: the final was one of the six or seven Senate

1760
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:22,920
Speaker 1: races in the country that was decided by five points

1761
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:26,600
Speaker 1: or less. So here are my candidates for that, And

1762
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 1: then I'll put in an order of least likely to

1763
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 1: end up on that last minute competitive slate to most likely.

1764
01:30:34,040 --> 01:30:35,880
Speaker 1: So I'm going to start with my home state of Florida.

1765
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:39,800
Speaker 1: You know, I think there's still a competitive nature to

1766
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:42,639
Speaker 1: the state of Florida. I think there's definitely some sort

1767
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 1: of Republican fatigue in general. I think the governor's race

1768
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 1: still has a shot at getting competitive. There's a couple

1769
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 1: of quality candidates on the Democratic side. We're not seeing

1770
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:54,839
Speaker 1: the same level of energy or interest on the Democratic

1771
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:58,120
Speaker 1: side on the Senate race as much. Ashley Moody, of course,

1772
01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 1: is running to fill out the rest of Marco Rubio's

1773
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:04,040
Speaker 1: term after he left to become Secretary of State, National

1774
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 1: Security Advisor, head of the Archives, et cetera. All the

1775
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:09,559
Speaker 1: different jobs that he still holds. He does hold all

1776
01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:14,040
Speaker 1: three of those that I just mentioned. And you know,

1777
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:16,920
Speaker 1: it just it's a very expensive state. So the work

1778
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 1: and the Democratic Party nationally has done a terrible job

1779
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 1: at incubating the state of Florida. They don't help the

1780
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:25,160
Speaker 1: state party. The state party doesn't help itself very well.

1781
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 1: You know, there's a variety of reasons why Florida sort

1782
01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:31,439
Speaker 1: of under punches its voters. Right. This is a state

1783
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 1: that you know, is still probably a fifty three to

1784
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:38,519
Speaker 1: forty seven state if both parties were equally funded. You know,

1785
01:31:38,640 --> 01:31:41,360
Speaker 1: it's a leaner I think I still think Florida's light red,

1786
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:46,720
Speaker 1: not dark red yet, but you know, the incompetence of

1787
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:50,439
Speaker 1: the state Democratic Party makes it seem like it's dark red.

1788
01:31:50,960 --> 01:31:52,720
Speaker 1: So that's why I put it in the fifth slot here,

1789
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:55,920
Speaker 1: because I do think the political environment could shift in

1790
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:59,280
Speaker 1: such a way where we could see and Ashley Moody's

1791
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:02,519
Speaker 1: not a household name and it is an appointed senator.

1792
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:05,800
Speaker 1: If you told me in October fifteenth, twenty twenty six,

1793
01:32:06,160 --> 01:32:08,120
Speaker 1: you had a poll show in that race forty five

1794
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:14,200
Speaker 1: forty with the Democratic nominee in Moody, in a political

1795
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 1: environment that looks like a growing blue wave, which at

1796
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:19,799
Speaker 1: the moment to me, it looks like that. That's what's happening.

1797
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:24,320
Speaker 1: Florida gets more competitive. It's just inevitable that you would

1798
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:26,920
Speaker 1: see that. So Florida's fifth on my list. But I'm

1799
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:28,920
Speaker 1: not yet impressed with the canaid. I almost think it's

1800
01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 1: too expensive to put in this category, to actually take

1801
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:34,960
Speaker 1: it from from could we make it competitive to look

1802
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 1: it's kind of competitive, to actually competitive. Fourth on the

1803
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:41,880
Speaker 1: list of Kentucky, it's an open seat. This is the

1804
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 1: Mitch mcconnel'sy. There's actually we've interviewed one of the Kentucky candidates,

1805
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:52,720
Speaker 1: Amy McGrath, is running again. There is you know, the

1806
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:56,200
Speaker 1: Republican Party in Kentucky is pretty divided, right because it's

1807
01:32:56,439 --> 01:33:00,920
Speaker 1: there's some pretty strong anti Trump Republicans in the state

1808
01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 1: of Kentucky. The retiring Senator Mitch McConnell ran Paul Thomas

1809
01:33:05,080 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 1: Massey the potential for the Republican primary to turn into

1810
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 1: a bloody mess. It's already kind of that way, right. Look,

1811
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:18,000
Speaker 1: I think Andy Barr, if he's the nominee, is very

1812
01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:20,120
Speaker 1: difficult to be But I also think Daniel Cameron would

1813
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:24,400
Speaker 1: be a pretty you know, a strong potential Senate nominee

1814
01:33:24,439 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 1: as well. But what if one of them aren't the

1815
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:31,799
Speaker 1: nominee and it is, like I said, it is nasty.

1816
01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:35,320
Speaker 1: The primary campaign is heated up. There is a sense

1817
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 1: on the Republican side that it doesn't matter what happens,

1818
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:40,840
Speaker 1: it can be as bloody as you want. Sometimes that

1819
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:49,200
Speaker 1: mindset might leave a potential nominee weaker than they should be.

1820
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:52,719
Speaker 1: We saw that with Jade Vance out of his Ohio primary,

1821
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: which was a bloody mess and ended up creating a

1822
01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:59,719
Speaker 1: much more competitive general than was necessary. All the ingredients

1823
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 1: are there in Kentucky for that. So it's I tell you,

1824
01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:09,360
Speaker 1: this is one of those things that if there were

1825
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:13,120
Speaker 1: a more, if the Democratic Party had a slightly better

1826
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:17,080
Speaker 1: brand and slightly better leadership, Andy Basheer would be the

1827
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:20,080
Speaker 1: Senate nominee in that campaign, and we'd be talking about

1828
01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:23,120
Speaker 1: Kentucky Senate a lot differently. But the fact that that's

1829
01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:25,439
Speaker 1: not even on the table, and there wasn't and there

1830
01:34:25,479 --> 01:34:28,759
Speaker 1: wasn't anybody with the heft to go to Andy Basheer

1831
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 1: and sort of beg him and twist his arm in

1832
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:33,400
Speaker 1: a way that could talk him into it. I think

1833
01:34:33,479 --> 01:34:34,920
Speaker 1: it just shows you how weak the party is. And

1834
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:37,519
Speaker 1: I think Andy Bisheer certainly has his eye. I think

1835
01:34:37,560 --> 01:34:41,839
Speaker 1: he thinks his skills translate better to a potential presidential campaign.

1836
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:45,400
Speaker 1: But again, all the ingredients of there in Kentucky for

1837
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:51,280
Speaker 1: something late to surge if the Republican primaries is messy.

1838
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:55,720
Speaker 1: It is again I'm assuming only if this environment continues

1839
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:57,760
Speaker 1: to be as poor as it appears to be for

1840
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:00,479
Speaker 1: the party that's currently in power. Three and this list

1841
01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:03,160
Speaker 1: for me is Lindsay Graham and South Carolina. I know

1842
01:35:03,240 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 1: we've been here before with the with the with Jamie

1843
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:09,760
Speaker 1: Harrison and all that wasted money, just like with Amy

1844
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:12,640
Speaker 1: McGrath and that wasted money. But I would argue that

1845
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:16,640
Speaker 1: six years ago the political environment wasn't as weak for Republicans.

1846
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:19,439
Speaker 1: It was a very competitive environment. What does that Senate

1847
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:22,640
Speaker 1: race look like in twenty twenty six without Trump on

1848
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:27,599
Speaker 1: the ballot? Is Lindsey Graham wearing out as welcome? Does

1849
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:31,920
Speaker 1: the mess that is the South Carolina Governor's race sort

1850
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:39,960
Speaker 1: of put an entire pall over the South Carolina Republican brand? Look,

1851
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:43,240
Speaker 1: South Carolina Democratic Party is very similar to the Florida

1852
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:48,560
Speaker 1: Democratic Party. They really underperformed their potential. You know, there

1853
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:52,960
Speaker 1: is a stronger floor in South Carolina. I mean, you know,

1854
01:35:53,640 --> 01:35:56,479
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. South Carolina is surrounded by competitive states Georgia

1855
01:35:56,520 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 1: to the south, North Carolina to the north. They just

1856
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:02,559
Speaker 1: had they've had bad leadership in the state party week

1857
01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:07,120
Speaker 1: voter registration campaigns. It is South Carolina and Mississippi are

1858
01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:10,840
Speaker 1: the two. And I've just previewed the next Senate race

1859
01:36:10,920 --> 01:36:13,840
Speaker 1: on my list, But these are two places where if

1860
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:18,720
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party invested serious resources and voter registration campaigns

1861
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:20,760
Speaker 1: and and sort of had a better message for rural

1862
01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:25,559
Speaker 1: blacks in South Carolina and Mississippi in general. But it's

1863
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:28,000
Speaker 1: a problem they have across the black belt in the South.

1864
01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 1: Is Democrats underperform among in all rural communities, not just

1865
01:36:33,360 --> 01:36:36,559
Speaker 1: rural white communities, but at rural Latino communities and rural

1866
01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:39,960
Speaker 1: black communities. It has been a it is, it has

1867
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:42,880
Speaker 1: been a nagging problem for them, and they've done very

1868
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:45,559
Speaker 1: little to fix it, very little investment. And this gets

1869
01:36:45,600 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 1: it to, you know, is the you know, does the

1870
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:50,439
Speaker 1: party see the opportunity that's staring them in the face

1871
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:54,519
Speaker 1: or have they Is it being run by a frankly,

1872
01:36:54,600 --> 01:36:57,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of people who live on the coasts and

1873
01:36:57,600 --> 01:36:59,960
Speaker 1: and just have written off and assume all rural America's

1874
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:02,360
Speaker 1: white when in the South, not all of rural America

1875
01:37:02,439 --> 01:37:06,599
Speaker 1: is white. And I think that's been a huge missed

1876
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:11,759
Speaker 1: opportunity in states like North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia,

1877
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:14,760
Speaker 1: uh in general. I mean, the only reason they throw

1878
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:16,360
Speaker 1: money at Georgia is do the Atlantic growth of the

1879
01:37:16,360 --> 01:37:19,000
Speaker 1: Atlanta suburbs. They're not. They're not doing as good of

1880
01:37:19,040 --> 01:37:21,320
Speaker 1: a job in the rural black communities as they could be.

1881
01:37:22,439 --> 01:37:25,639
Speaker 1: So anyway, I again, South Carolina's another one of those

1882
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:28,800
Speaker 1: there's a mess. You know, yes it's in the governor's race,

1883
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 1: but that it's just creating a bad juju if you will.

1884
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:38,920
Speaker 1: And you know, Lindsay's his own worst enemy at times,

1885
01:37:39,479 --> 01:37:43,840
Speaker 1: and his mouth can certainly inspire donors to give money

1886
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:47,840
Speaker 1: to candidates in ways that that that he may and

1887
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:50,320
Speaker 1: he may have tied himself too much to Trump in

1888
01:37:50,439 --> 01:37:53,719
Speaker 1: ways that are not you know, you know, Lindsay's problem

1889
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,080
Speaker 1: is is I think that there are there is this

1890
01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:59,080
Speaker 1: center right voter in South Carolina that assume Lindsay was

1891
01:37:59,120 --> 01:38:01,479
Speaker 1: one of them, and I think they still think Lindsay

1892
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:05,439
Speaker 1: is one of them. But he's so desperate to stay

1893
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:08,160
Speaker 1: in Trump's good graces that he he sort of does

1894
01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:13,560
Speaker 1: some rhetorical gymnastics that's embarrassing to some voters. They just

1895
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:16,080
Speaker 1: have not had the right Democrat to to to sort

1896
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:19,720
Speaker 1: of expose that side of Lindsay. But look, this is

1897
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:23,759
Speaker 1: a guy Lindsay reminds me of Chuck Schumer in this respect.

1898
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:29,960
Speaker 1: These are two two politicians who've had a really impressive

1899
01:38:30,120 --> 01:38:34,920
Speaker 1: career who are probably here a term too long. Had

1900
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:38,120
Speaker 1: they left a term sooner, they'd be they'd have they'd

1901
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:41,040
Speaker 1: have been lying. They literally would have been treated as

1902
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:43,479
Speaker 1: lions of the Senate, you know, if they had left

1903
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:45,400
Speaker 1: on their own terms. And yes, you can say they're

1904
01:38:45,400 --> 01:38:47,080
Speaker 1: going to be leaving on their own terms, but in

1905
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:51,120
Speaker 1: some ways, you know, it's it's they're they're they they're

1906
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:53,320
Speaker 1: kind of here past their cell by date. And the

1907
01:38:53,439 --> 01:38:57,000
Speaker 1: longer they're here, I think the smaller they've become in

1908
01:38:57,120 --> 01:39:00,240
Speaker 1: some ways. And and I think that's the danger here

1909
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:03,720
Speaker 1: for Lindsay on this one. And that's why again I

1910
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 1: put it in here. I think that it's it's another

1911
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:09,479
Speaker 1: political environment, right, you know, you tell me how South

1912
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:15,200
Speaker 1: Carolina working class voters are going to benefit from high

1913
01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:18,720
Speaker 1: tariffs and things like that. So, uh, it's it's a

1914
01:39:19,320 --> 01:39:22,400
Speaker 1: it's it's again. I'm not saying it's going to happen,

1915
01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:25,720
Speaker 1: but it's if it does happen. It's one of the

1916
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:27,439
Speaker 1: five races I would put in there. Number two on

1917
01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:30,960
Speaker 1: my list is Mississippi, as I previewed, almost the identical

1918
01:39:31,400 --> 01:39:35,720
Speaker 1: situation uh as South Carolina. But you also have an

1919
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 1: incumbent who's just not hasn't left a heavy footprint yet

1920
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:44,880
Speaker 1: in the state, Cindy Hyde Smith. You know, Roger Wicker

1921
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:47,800
Speaker 1: is definitely more of the senior senator and he's on

1922
01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:51,000
Speaker 1: the higher profile committees. He's sort of involved in the

1923
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:54,840
Speaker 1: higher profile issues. I don't think Cindy Hyde Smith has

1924
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:58,519
Speaker 1: the same hold over over her voters or her seat

1925
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:03,800
Speaker 1: that are previous senators from Mississippi have had in their

1926
01:40:03,800 --> 01:40:08,320
Speaker 1: Senate seats. So look, she's you know it is this

1927
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:11,160
Speaker 1: is actually her campaign for a second full term she

1928
01:40:11,240 --> 01:40:14,599
Speaker 1: got she got appointed there two years and then second

1929
01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:19,080
Speaker 1: full term. So look that the Democrats have an interesting

1930
01:40:19,160 --> 01:40:24,320
Speaker 1: candidate here in somebody that was put up for a

1931
01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:31,320
Speaker 1: judicial nomination rejected. Again. Mississippi a state we've seen it

1932
01:40:31,400 --> 01:40:34,920
Speaker 1: in the governor's races. It can be a competitive state.

1933
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:37,840
Speaker 1: Takes a little bit of work, but this is one

1934
01:40:37,920 --> 01:40:42,120
Speaker 1: of those where come October, I fully expect a poll

1935
01:40:42,240 --> 01:40:45,320
Speaker 1: showing forty five to forty Sydney hind Smith and where

1936
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:47,960
Speaker 1: there's a striking distance where there is a debate about

1937
01:40:47,960 --> 01:40:52,000
Speaker 1: whether how all in should Democrats go on Mississippi Senate.

1938
01:40:52,280 --> 01:40:53,960
Speaker 1: And then number one on my list of the of

1939
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:58,040
Speaker 1: the five is actually Montana. You know, Montana is an

1940
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:03,240
Speaker 1: R plus ten state. It is you know, in some

1941
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:05,920
Speaker 1: ways not having a high profile challenger this time, like

1942
01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:08,680
Speaker 1: Steve Danes had the last time. But the thing it

1943
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:12,760
Speaker 1: might might be more beneficial. Right. When John Tester ran

1944
01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:14,519
Speaker 1: the first time, he was kind of the outsider. When

1945
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:19,240
Speaker 1: Brian Schweitzer ran the first time, the outsider, Steve Bullock,

1946
01:41:19,360 --> 01:41:23,320
Speaker 1: you know, was seen as an outsider. So I think

1947
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:26,760
Speaker 1: Dane's a pretty savvy politician. So I don't think he's

1948
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:29,120
Speaker 1: going to get caught napping maybe the way some of

1949
01:41:29,160 --> 01:41:32,680
Speaker 1: these other incumbents could get caught napping. But Montana is

1950
01:41:32,680 --> 01:41:34,920
Speaker 1: also not a hard right state, and they're going to

1951
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:40,639
Speaker 1: be pretty sensitive, especially if corruption starts to pop Montana

1952
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:44,920
Speaker 1: voters are a bit more sensitive to corruption issues I

1953
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:47,240
Speaker 1: think in general, and a bit less tolerant of it

1954
01:41:47,439 --> 01:41:51,120
Speaker 1: no matter whose side is doing it. And if that

1955
01:41:51,479 --> 01:41:55,479
Speaker 1: becomes you know, sort of gets into the ecosystem, in

1956
01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:58,720
Speaker 1: the campaign ecosystem, what Trump's been doing with pardons and

1957
01:41:58,760 --> 01:42:02,200
Speaker 1: the self enrichment and all of that. You know, I

1958
01:42:02,240 --> 01:42:04,439
Speaker 1: think there's a reason, if you've noticed Steve Danes keeps

1959
01:42:04,479 --> 01:42:07,840
Speaker 1: a pretty low profile. He does not want to necessarily

1960
01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:11,280
Speaker 1: pop his head up on this front. It is Look,

1961
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:14,439
Speaker 1: Montana is a populist, it's a right leaning state. But

1962
01:42:14,479 --> 01:42:18,360
Speaker 1: there's a it's a populous state and it is one

1963
01:42:18,400 --> 01:42:19,800
Speaker 1: of those you can get on the wrong side, and

1964
01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:23,040
Speaker 1: the Democrats are well organized in the state. So the

1965
01:42:23,120 --> 01:42:25,120
Speaker 1: point is is that I think these are five races

1966
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:27,960
Speaker 1: nobody's talking about at the moment. Nobody believes are going

1967
01:42:28,040 --> 01:42:30,760
Speaker 1: to be competitive. Nobody believes, maybe nobody at the d

1968
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:33,519
Speaker 1: SEC is even looking at it. But I promise you,

1969
01:42:33,680 --> 01:42:37,960
Speaker 1: if this is as bad of a political environment as

1970
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:41,880
Speaker 1: it looks like it's growing into for Republicans, one of

1971
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:43,680
Speaker 1: these five, if not more of them, but one of

1972
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:47,720
Speaker 1: those five Florida, Kentucky, South Carolina, Mississippi, Montana, will be

1973
01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:51,439
Speaker 1: a seriously targeted race and might actually flip come election

1974
01:42:51,560 --> 01:42:54,519
Speaker 1: Day twenty twenty six if this trajectory of where the

1975
01:42:54,600 --> 01:43:06,439
Speaker 1: political environment is going stays on the same trajectory. All right,

1976
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:08,840
Speaker 1: So with that, let's get to se Aster Ash Chuck.

1977
01:43:12,120 --> 01:43:15,799
Speaker 1: All right, first question comes from Nate Nate's in Yorkville, Illinois.

1978
01:43:16,360 --> 01:43:19,439
Speaker 1: Nate confesses, I almost skipped the Clay Travis episode, but

1979
01:43:19,439 --> 01:43:21,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad I gave it a listen. It was a guest.

1980
01:43:21,200 --> 01:43:23,439
Speaker 1: It was a great conversation. He came across as thoughtful

1981
01:43:23,479 --> 01:43:26,400
Speaker 1: and engaging. Thanks for pushing us outside our bubbles and

1982
01:43:26,479 --> 01:43:29,240
Speaker 1: featuring voices we might not normally hear. I also fully

1983
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:31,439
Speaker 1: agree with your Thanksgiving take best holiday by far and

1984
01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:33,760
Speaker 1: your Turkey Day top five A spot on, especially the

1985
01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:37,639
Speaker 1: pumpkin Pie thoughts Nate podcast fan since the nineteen forty

1986
01:43:37,680 --> 01:43:40,960
Speaker 1: seven days. That's super old school. Appreciate it, Nate. Thanks

1987
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:43,080
Speaker 1: for saying that, Like, That's what I'm trying to do,

1988
01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:45,720
Speaker 1: And in some ways I hope Matt Higgins is a

1989
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:51,200
Speaker 1: similar type of conversation, trying to expose people, to expose lists,

1990
01:43:51,240 --> 01:43:54,400
Speaker 1: expose you know that this is I just look at

1991
01:43:54,400 --> 01:43:56,360
Speaker 1: it this way. These are people I'm trying to learn

1992
01:43:56,400 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 1: something from, trying to understand better, and if it's helping

1993
01:43:59,479 --> 01:44:02,040
Speaker 1: me understand something better, I'm assuming it's going to help

1994
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:04,720
Speaker 1: you understand something better. So that's kind of the way

1995
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:07,640
Speaker 1: I just view myself as sort of what helps me

1996
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:12,360
Speaker 1: sort of get smarter about both sides of the aisle,

1997
01:44:12,520 --> 01:44:16,519
Speaker 1: understanding the as I call myself a political anthropologist. You know,

1998
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:23,719
Speaker 1: I want to understand folks that live in a variety

1999
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:25,920
Speaker 1: of bubbles and I don't I'm not going to presume

2000
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:28,559
Speaker 1: we just have two bubbles. In this country. I think

2001
01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:31,040
Speaker 1: we have quite a few, so I appreciate that. And

2002
01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:35,000
Speaker 1: I left out, by the way my numbers, I left

2003
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:37,280
Speaker 1: out the single most important thing I do every Thanksgiving,

2004
01:44:37,680 --> 01:44:41,400
Speaker 1: and that is I make this turkey chili with the

2005
01:44:41,479 --> 01:44:48,640
Speaker 1: leftover turkey. And the real question is how long? The

2006
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:51,120
Speaker 1: question is how long is it? Is it okay to

2007
01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:54,800
Speaker 1: keep around? Because it is one of those chilies it

2008
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:57,320
Speaker 1: gets better every day for a period of time. Then

2009
01:44:57,360 --> 01:44:59,880
Speaker 1: there's the point then everything starts to taste old, right,

2010
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:04,160
Speaker 1: But there's something about putting all the flavors together. You know. Today,

2011
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:07,120
Speaker 1: certainly I'm taping here on a Tuesday. I had it

2012
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:10,240
Speaker 1: a lunch again for lunch today. We're still in peak.

2013
01:45:10,280 --> 01:45:13,360
Speaker 1: I think we're still in it's in peak mode. But

2014
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:15,200
Speaker 1: I'm probably now on the other side of the hill.

2015
01:45:16,560 --> 01:45:20,120
Speaker 1: Is it worth freezing or not? Would you freeze left

2016
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 1: over at chilling? I am probably not going to do it,

2017
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:29,439
Speaker 1: but I'm contemplating it, so I would love I'd love

2018
01:45:29,479 --> 01:45:30,720
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that, if any of you want to

2019
01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:32,400
Speaker 1: chime in that all right, next question comes from Dan.

2020
01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:34,479
Speaker 1: He says, Hey, Chuck, what is the public to make

2021
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:37,120
Speaker 1: of all the recent attempted censures in the House of Representatives.

2022
01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:39,559
Speaker 1: Some of it is dem on dem and GOP and GOP.

2023
01:45:39,800 --> 01:45:42,760
Speaker 1: Is it based in a sense of morality, opportunistic acts,

2024
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:45,880
Speaker 1: grinding or both? Dan, you know, it's interesting.

2025
01:45:45,960 --> 01:45:46,120
Speaker 2: Dan.

2026
01:45:46,240 --> 01:45:48,320
Speaker 1: I talked to Mike Turner about this on my new

2027
01:45:48,400 --> 01:45:50,600
Speaker 1: Sphere show. He brought this up to me as a

2028
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:53,679
Speaker 1: Republican from Ohio. But he noted how at the time

2029
01:45:53,720 --> 01:45:55,720
Speaker 1: of our interview sort of this it was sort of

2030
01:45:55,760 --> 01:45:59,720
Speaker 1: almost a similar observation that you did, which is like,

2031
01:46:00,320 --> 01:46:01,960
Speaker 1: what the hell is this? What is it? I mean,

2032
01:46:02,040 --> 01:46:04,479
Speaker 1: you know where it is. But it was his way

2033
01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:06,840
Speaker 1: of pointing out of what a terrible place it is

2034
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:12,280
Speaker 1: to work right now. He chalked it up to being

2035
01:46:12,360 --> 01:46:16,280
Speaker 1: kept away from Washington for over a month. Mike Johnson's

2036
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:20,360
Speaker 1: decision to keep the House out of DC during the

2037
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:24,400
Speaker 1: shutdown just drove members crazy, and so it was like,

2038
01:46:24,760 --> 01:46:27,479
Speaker 1: you know, it's like you kinked hose and then young

2039
01:46:27,560 --> 01:46:31,320
Speaker 1: kinked it and whoom, right, and when people came back

2040
01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:34,080
Speaker 1: to Washington, they came back ready to go.

2041
01:46:34,400 --> 01:46:34,559
Speaker 2: Right.

2042
01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:37,400
Speaker 1: So you had Marie glusen Camp's going, what the hell's

2043
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:38,519
Speaker 1: Chewy Garciodo on?

2044
01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:38,920
Speaker 2: Right?

2045
01:46:39,400 --> 01:46:41,800
Speaker 1: That was the demon dem one where she's like, that

2046
01:46:42,040 --> 01:46:45,080
Speaker 1: was an underhanded move. If we think Trump's regging an election,

2047
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:48,400
Speaker 1: that's no different, we should denounce it. By the way,

2048
01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:52,040
Speaker 1: I think MGP is right, I am. I think Marie

2049
01:46:52,080 --> 01:46:54,200
Speaker 1: Glusoen camp Perez is one of the If I were

2050
01:46:54,200 --> 01:46:56,680
Speaker 1: to say, who the if I were to do my

2051
01:46:56,760 --> 01:46:59,960
Speaker 1: best Barbara Walters and who's the five most interesting Democrats

2052
01:47:00,160 --> 01:47:02,280
Speaker 1: right now to talk to, she'd be in my top

2053
01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:06,160
Speaker 1: five list on that one. She's fascinating to me, and

2054
01:47:06,240 --> 01:47:11,200
Speaker 1: I think that there's a there's a populist honesty to

2055
01:47:11,280 --> 01:47:18,600
Speaker 1: her that I think is infectious and fascinating and you know,

2056
01:47:19,479 --> 01:47:22,920
Speaker 1: definitely worth Uh. She's trust me. I'm trying to book her.

2057
01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:25,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to bring her to you as soon as

2058
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:28,080
Speaker 1: we can get her to say, agree to agree to

2059
01:47:28,160 --> 01:47:31,320
Speaker 1: an interview. So some of it is the members blame

2060
01:47:31,360 --> 01:47:32,680
Speaker 1: on that, but I think some of it is just

2061
01:47:32,720 --> 01:47:37,000
Speaker 1: simply the current political environment. Right think about it. The

2062
01:47:37,080 --> 01:47:40,240
Speaker 1: Democrats are unhappy with their leadership, and they're unhappy with

2063
01:47:40,680 --> 01:47:42,519
Speaker 1: what they're having to deal with Donald Trump, and they're

2064
01:47:42,520 --> 01:47:44,880
Speaker 1: really mad about Joe Biden still, so it's just a

2065
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:49,559
Speaker 1: cranky group of Democrats. Republicans feel as if they've been

2066
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:53,559
Speaker 1: pushed aside, particularly after the shutdown, they feel as if

2067
01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:56,200
Speaker 1: they do nothing but to you know, go back to

2068
01:47:56,439 --> 01:47:58,920
Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green statement, they feel as if they do

2069
01:47:59,040 --> 01:48:02,519
Speaker 1: nothing but defend Trump, and all they get is grief

2070
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:06,120
Speaker 1: in return, or they get set aside, or they get

2071
01:48:06,200 --> 01:48:09,400
Speaker 1: dealt out. So even though in some ways this is

2072
01:48:09,479 --> 01:48:12,920
Speaker 1: a Republican governing renaissance, in theory it could be. Right.

2073
01:48:13,000 --> 01:48:15,680
Speaker 1: You have controlled the House, the Senate, and the presidency,

2074
01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:18,400
Speaker 1: and the president has control of his party in a

2075
01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:24,679
Speaker 1: way that no president has had. Frankly, you know, Obama

2076
01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:27,760
Speaker 1: didn't have a grip like this under Democrats, and maybe

2077
01:48:27,920 --> 01:48:29,720
Speaker 1: for a temporary period Bush had a grip on the

2078
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:33,960
Speaker 1: Republicans like this after nine to eleven, but not not

2079
01:48:34,200 --> 01:48:39,320
Speaker 1: like this, And so in theory it should be a

2080
01:48:39,360 --> 01:48:43,120
Speaker 1: golden age for legislating, and yet it hasn't. Right. Instead,

2081
01:48:43,280 --> 01:48:45,880
Speaker 1: Trump wants to sign executive orders. He doesn't want to

2082
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:50,559
Speaker 1: bother watching letting the sausage be made. So I think

2083
01:48:50,600 --> 01:48:55,880
Speaker 1: it's that nobody's happy, right. House Republicans aren't happy that

2084
01:48:55,960 --> 01:48:59,799
Speaker 1: they don't get to govern, and House Democrats are unhappy

2085
01:48:59,840 --> 01:49:01,760
Speaker 1: at their position and are pissed off at all their

2086
01:49:01,840 --> 01:49:06,080
Speaker 1: leaders for they believe putting them in this place. So

2087
01:49:06,200 --> 01:49:09,120
Speaker 1: you put it all together and it's just think about

2088
01:49:09,160 --> 01:49:12,200
Speaker 1: your own bad day. I think about this, and I

2089
01:49:12,600 --> 01:49:16,120
Speaker 1: will you know. I've been this way as a boss.

2090
01:49:16,160 --> 01:49:18,120
Speaker 1: I've been this way as a parent. Right You've had

2091
01:49:18,160 --> 01:49:22,000
Speaker 1: a bad day and then somebody does something that's just

2092
01:49:22,080 --> 01:49:25,280
Speaker 1: slightly annoying, might be an employee, might be a kid.

2093
01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:29,559
Speaker 1: Isn't worth you losing your cool about? But you lose

2094
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:32,040
Speaker 1: you're cool because you're already upset about sixteen other things.

2095
01:49:33,280 --> 01:49:36,800
Speaker 1: That's the equivalent of I think the situation that the

2096
01:49:36,840 --> 01:49:39,720
Speaker 1: House of Representatives is feeling these days, and I just

2097
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:42,760
Speaker 1: think that's the way anybody in elective politics feels this

2098
01:49:42,840 --> 01:49:46,000
Speaker 1: way right now. Everybody feels like they're all out, that

2099
01:49:46,120 --> 01:49:49,760
Speaker 1: they all are out for themselves, not because they want

2100
01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:51,639
Speaker 1: to be, because they don't think they have any other choice,

2101
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:54,639
Speaker 1: because they really don't trust anybody else to look out

2102
01:49:54,680 --> 01:50:00,559
Speaker 1: for themselves. Next question comes from Randall and der Vaal

2103
01:50:00,840 --> 01:50:05,760
Speaker 1: from Lighten, Netherlands, leading r Lighten My Apologies. He says,

2104
01:50:05,760 --> 01:50:07,880
Speaker 1: as a listener from the Netherlands, I struggle to understand

2105
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:12,080
Speaker 1: how so many still support leaders who behave irresponsibly and unpredictably.

2106
01:50:12,120 --> 01:50:13,920
Speaker 1: It feels like both Europe and the US are losing

2107
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:17,040
Speaker 1: a shared sense of purpose with real leadership and short supply.

2108
01:50:17,080 --> 01:50:19,599
Speaker 1: I agree Europe should take more responsibility for its own security,

2109
01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:21,680
Speaker 1: but we need leaders who think beyond themselves. How do

2110
01:50:21,760 --> 01:50:25,160
Speaker 1: we get accountable, responsible leaders into power again? And what

2111
01:50:25,280 --> 01:50:27,839
Speaker 1: needs to change in our democracies to make that possible.

2112
01:50:28,640 --> 01:50:31,960
Speaker 1: So this is where I think populism and nationalism gets contagious,

2113
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:35,720
Speaker 1: and it's the wrong type of contagious. So and as

2114
01:50:35,840 --> 01:50:38,760
Speaker 1: leader of the free world, the United States, how you know,

2115
01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:42,519
Speaker 1: we set an example, right whatever whatever posture we take

2116
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:46,240
Speaker 1: when we are when we're leaning in as as leader

2117
01:50:46,439 --> 01:50:51,800
Speaker 1: of the free world in a more internationalists posture, say

2118
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:57,519
Speaker 1: in the era of Frankly, from Eisenhower to Obama in general,

2119
01:50:57,680 --> 01:51:02,720
Speaker 1: right we viewed we did. Every president between Eisenhower and

2120
01:51:02,840 --> 01:51:07,400
Speaker 1: Obama came into office believing America was leader of the

2121
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:10,800
Speaker 1: free world. And we put that in quotes their free world.

2122
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:16,040
Speaker 1: Believe that the relationship with Europe was second to none,

2123
01:51:16,280 --> 01:51:19,560
Speaker 1: that it was the single most important relationship there was,

2124
01:51:21,880 --> 01:51:29,480
Speaker 1: and that democracy was the ultimate goal. Freedom and democracy

2125
01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:32,920
Speaker 1: was the ultimate goal. Didn't mean that that was going

2126
01:51:33,000 --> 01:51:35,160
Speaker 1: to be our number one export over time. But in

2127
01:51:35,280 --> 01:51:38,719
Speaker 1: many ways we set an example. So how we behave

2128
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:41,760
Speaker 1: is how other countries think it's okay to behave. And

2129
01:51:41,960 --> 01:51:45,800
Speaker 1: as we sort of became more nationalistic, other countries get

2130
01:51:45,840 --> 01:51:49,960
Speaker 1: more nationalistic. When we decide to erect tariff barriers, other

2131
01:51:50,040 --> 01:51:54,400
Speaker 1: countries decide to America tariff barriers, and so you end

2132
01:51:54,520 --> 01:51:57,160
Speaker 1: up it. And so this is a case where I

2133
01:51:57,200 --> 01:52:00,799
Speaker 1: think the United States and ye you could say Brexit

2134
01:52:00,960 --> 01:52:04,680
Speaker 1: was sort of a sort of a starting gun that

2135
01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:08,320
Speaker 1: was fired on this movement towards nationalism, but that the

2136
01:52:08,800 --> 01:52:11,320
Speaker 1: collective move towards nationalism. I mean, this is you know,

2137
01:52:12,320 --> 01:52:13,960
Speaker 1: the last time we were in a position like this,

2138
01:52:14,560 --> 01:52:16,439
Speaker 1: you know, we ended up in a couple of world wars.

2139
01:52:16,680 --> 01:52:21,559
Speaker 1: You know, we had forms of nationalism arguably or how

2140
01:52:21,600 --> 01:52:23,080
Speaker 1: we got into World War One and certainly how we

2141
01:52:23,120 --> 01:52:28,519
Speaker 1: got into World War Two. So I think that's I

2142
01:52:28,600 --> 01:52:31,760
Speaker 1: think that is at the root of all this. Right

2143
01:52:31,920 --> 01:52:38,320
Speaker 1: the more, when when America becomes more isolationists, more protectionists,

2144
01:52:38,520 --> 01:52:41,479
Speaker 1: well so does everybody else because it's you know, you're

2145
01:52:41,600 --> 01:52:44,600
Speaker 1: you're going to behave like the you know, like the

2146
01:52:44,680 --> 01:52:47,120
Speaker 1: big dog is going to behave and so I think

2147
01:52:47,200 --> 01:52:49,439
Speaker 1: that has a huge part of it. I think that

2148
01:52:51,800 --> 01:52:54,320
Speaker 1: we do. We are in the middle of an economic transition,

2149
01:52:54,439 --> 01:52:57,439
Speaker 1: and this is a major one. We haven't had an

2150
01:52:57,479 --> 01:52:59,760
Speaker 1: economic transition like this in over one hundred years, and

2151
01:52:59,800 --> 01:53:01,800
Speaker 1: the last time we had it when we went from

2152
01:53:01,800 --> 01:53:04,560
Speaker 1: an agrarian to industrial. Think about all the revolutions that

2153
01:53:04,640 --> 01:53:06,920
Speaker 1: happened across the globe. Right, we had the Russian Revolution,

2154
01:53:07,040 --> 01:53:08,720
Speaker 1: we had the fall of the Ottoman Empire, we had

2155
01:53:08,840 --> 01:53:11,920
Speaker 1: the First World basically the First Great War we called it,

2156
01:53:12,720 --> 01:53:15,040
Speaker 1: where it felt like the entire globe was fighting each other.

2157
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:19,920
Speaker 1: But in some ways that was due to fear of

2158
01:53:20,320 --> 01:53:24,240
Speaker 1: what was coming next. Right, the Tetanic place were shifting

2159
01:53:24,320 --> 01:53:28,679
Speaker 1: in geopolitics, the United States was becoming a world power,

2160
01:53:30,040 --> 01:53:32,800
Speaker 1: and the powers that were the dominant powers of the

2161
01:53:32,800 --> 01:53:37,000
Speaker 1: eighteenth and nineteenth century we're trying to hang onto power. Right,

2162
01:53:37,160 --> 01:53:41,000
Speaker 1: So we are in the middle, and I think we

2163
01:53:41,080 --> 01:53:43,439
Speaker 1: can't underestimate we are in the middle of this great

2164
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:46,400
Speaker 1: transition from an industrial to whatever this new economy is

2165
01:53:46,439 --> 01:53:50,200
Speaker 1: going to look like, this tech driven, service driven AI

2166
01:53:50,360 --> 01:53:53,360
Speaker 1: driven Right, we know, we know this is going to

2167
01:53:53,960 --> 01:53:59,720
Speaker 1: dramatically change the nature of work and ultimately over time,

2168
01:53:59,800 --> 01:54:03,000
Speaker 1: it's probably going to be to the benefit of humanity,

2169
01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:05,720
Speaker 1: but the transition is going to be awful, just like

2170
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:09,080
Speaker 1: the Industrial Revolution was to the overall benefit of humanity

2171
01:54:09,080 --> 01:54:10,679
Speaker 1: when you look at it through one hundred year prism.

2172
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:13,280
Speaker 1: But the first twenty years of the Industrial Revolution was

2173
01:54:13,360 --> 01:54:17,280
Speaker 1: terrible if you look at it in terms of livelihoods

2174
01:54:17,360 --> 01:54:22,280
Speaker 1: lost and things like that. So this is where I

2175
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:25,479
Speaker 1: play sort of amateur historian, and I said, let's take

2176
01:54:25,479 --> 01:54:28,960
Speaker 1: a step back and realize, this is a moment in time. Now,

2177
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:31,880
Speaker 1: why are we in this moment in time? I try

2178
01:54:31,920 --> 01:54:34,960
Speaker 1: to comfort myself by sort of trying to at least

2179
01:54:35,080 --> 01:54:38,160
Speaker 1: understand how we got here, and we kind of know

2180
01:54:38,200 --> 01:54:40,400
Speaker 1: how we're going to get out. The question is can

2181
01:54:40,440 --> 01:54:42,920
Speaker 1: we get out without a world war? Can we get

2182
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:49,280
Speaker 1: out without internal civil wars, without dramatic sort of ideological revolutions?

2183
01:54:49,920 --> 01:54:50,040
Speaker 2: Right?

2184
01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:54,120
Speaker 1: Will the transition be smoother than it was between the industry,

2185
01:54:54,160 --> 01:54:57,520
Speaker 1: between the agrarian and the industrial You know, that was

2186
01:54:57,600 --> 01:55:01,920
Speaker 1: a very violent transition when when you look at it

2187
01:55:02,000 --> 01:55:06,320
Speaker 1: in hindsight, we don't necessarily always cover it that way.

2188
01:55:06,400 --> 01:55:08,640
Speaker 1: We just sort of like, ah, and then the Industrial

2189
01:55:08,680 --> 01:55:11,000
Speaker 1: Revolution began, and yeah, we had some child labor laws

2190
01:55:11,040 --> 01:55:13,360
Speaker 1: and we had something to that, right, you know. I

2191
01:55:14,360 --> 01:55:16,040
Speaker 1: it is like when we were in the moment, I

2192
01:55:16,080 --> 01:55:18,520
Speaker 1: don't think people felt like, oh, some man, this is

2193
01:55:18,600 --> 01:55:21,000
Speaker 1: going to be great. Everybody's gonna have electricity, and everybody's

2194
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:23,160
Speaker 1: gonna have We're all going to someday just sit on

2195
01:55:23,280 --> 01:55:27,760
Speaker 1: couches and watch stuff moving pictures on video screens. Right.

2196
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:29,880
Speaker 1: You know, people didn't know what their lives were going

2197
01:55:29,920 --> 01:55:31,800
Speaker 1: to look like thirty years later. Then they had no

2198
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:33,800
Speaker 1: clue what their life was going to be like thirty

2199
01:55:33,880 --> 01:55:37,600
Speaker 1: years later because that unknown was because it was unknown,

2200
01:55:38,320 --> 01:55:46,480
Speaker 1: it was all fear. So I think that here's here's

2201
01:55:46,520 --> 01:55:48,920
Speaker 1: why I always say, trust the voters. The voters eventually

2202
01:55:48,960 --> 01:55:52,160
Speaker 1: figured it out. I think the voters are starting to

2203
01:55:52,160 --> 01:55:54,760
Speaker 1: figure it out in Europe. I think the voters are

2204
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:57,200
Speaker 1: figuring it will continue to figure it out in this country.

2205
01:55:59,360 --> 01:56:05,600
Speaker 1: And in stability, you know, there's always a uh a

2206
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:10,040
Speaker 1: bias towards stability, okay, whatever that is. And at some

2207
01:56:10,240 --> 01:56:13,640
Speaker 1: point you know we're gonna we're going to get there.

2208
01:56:13,680 --> 01:56:15,240
Speaker 1: But I think we're in the middle of something that

2209
01:56:15,400 --> 01:56:18,000
Speaker 1: is just simply we're in the middle of a rocking

2210
01:56:18,880 --> 01:56:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, vote and choppy waters, and it's just going

2211
01:56:22,280 --> 01:56:26,000
Speaker 1: to be a while intil the water settle. I know

2212
01:56:26,120 --> 01:56:31,360
Speaker 1: that wasn't the best answer, but I think that that's

2213
01:56:31,440 --> 01:56:36,880
Speaker 1: the larger reason why we're here. But I also think that,

2214
01:56:37,080 --> 01:56:40,400
Speaker 1: you know, ultimately, people vote based on their own livelihoods.

2215
01:56:42,720 --> 01:56:44,640
Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of promises made by many

2216
01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:46,840
Speaker 1: of these nationalists and many of these populists, and they're

2217
01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:49,600
Speaker 1: not being able to fulfill them. And I think and

2218
01:56:49,720 --> 01:56:51,960
Speaker 1: instead it looks like there's just been nothing but grift

2219
01:56:52,040 --> 01:56:55,400
Speaker 1: and graft. I think that's going to be how these

2220
01:56:55,440 --> 01:56:58,520
Speaker 1: movements end. That's usually how many a political movement ends.

2221
01:56:58,560 --> 01:57:01,560
Speaker 1: It ends in corruption. That's what this one feels like,

2222
01:57:01,600 --> 01:57:05,560
Speaker 1: at least in this country. Next question, I love it.

2223
01:57:06,840 --> 01:57:10,120
Speaker 1: You signed it your champ. It's pretty neat to end

2224
01:57:10,240 --> 01:57:13,240
Speaker 1: up with the nickname Champ. I hope you're a champ

2225
01:57:13,360 --> 01:57:15,720
Speaker 1: in something, but anyway, this next question is just from Champ.

2226
01:57:16,960 --> 01:57:19,520
Speaker 1: You better have won something that got you the nickname,

2227
01:57:21,360 --> 01:57:23,000
Speaker 1: and I kind of think it's got to be at

2228
01:57:23,080 --> 01:57:26,720
Speaker 1: least high school championship are above. Like, if you're going

2229
01:57:26,760 --> 01:57:28,920
Speaker 1: to come at me with a middle school championship, I

2230
01:57:28,960 --> 01:57:31,720
Speaker 1: don't know if that's worthy of the Champ nickname. It's

2231
01:57:31,800 --> 01:57:34,800
Speaker 1: just my opinion. But what am I doing insulting my

2232
01:57:35,160 --> 01:57:38,920
Speaker 1: listeners like this? So no insult Champ. You know, I'm

2233
01:57:39,040 --> 01:57:41,120
Speaker 1: just let me know what you want, hey check. I'm

2234
01:57:41,120 --> 01:57:43,520
Speaker 1: curious about why President Biden seems to be facing challenges

2235
01:57:43,600 --> 01:57:47,000
Speaker 1: with donor support first presidential library, especially compared to past

2236
01:57:47,000 --> 01:57:49,880
Speaker 1: presidents like Clinton or Obama, who secured major deals in

2237
01:57:49,920 --> 01:57:53,160
Speaker 1: funding post being in office. Reports suggests donors are hesitant

2238
01:57:53,200 --> 01:57:55,720
Speaker 1: due to the twenty twenty four election outcome, concerns over

2239
01:57:55,760 --> 01:57:57,960
Speaker 1: Biden's South, then fear of Trump error retaliation. Why do

2240
01:57:58,040 --> 01:58:01,400
Speaker 1: you think these post presidentcyp coutunities are so different for Biden?

2241
01:58:01,440 --> 01:58:03,560
Speaker 1: And why might donors be so reluctant despite having the

2242
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:09,800
Speaker 1: right to support him. So, look, I think it's just

2243
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:14,280
Speaker 1: donor anger at the moment. And these weren't Biden donors, right,

2244
01:58:14,400 --> 01:58:18,080
Speaker 1: These were Democratic Party donors who always donated to who

2245
01:58:18,160 --> 01:58:21,480
Speaker 1: the Democratic nominee was, right, So they were their loyalty

2246
01:58:21,600 --> 01:58:23,640
Speaker 1: was to the party before it was loyalty to Biden.

2247
01:58:24,200 --> 01:58:25,600
Speaker 1: So I think there's a little bit of that, and

2248
01:58:25,680 --> 01:58:27,800
Speaker 1: it goes back to this has been a problem Biden's

2249
01:58:27,800 --> 01:58:31,960
Speaker 1: always had, right his his his loyal set of supporters

2250
01:58:32,040 --> 01:58:34,480
Speaker 1: have been very small. It's always been at small, tight circle.

2251
01:58:35,040 --> 01:58:37,040
Speaker 1: But there weren't you know, he was never a prolific

2252
01:58:37,120 --> 01:58:39,680
Speaker 1: fundraiser before he became president. So he didn't have like

2253
01:58:39,760 --> 01:58:45,120
Speaker 1: a donor network that akin to what most presidents have.

2254
01:58:45,280 --> 01:58:47,040
Speaker 1: And when you have a donor network like that, it's

2255
01:58:47,080 --> 01:58:49,760
Speaker 1: easy to tap into them. For the library, Obama had

2256
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:52,280
Speaker 1: a devoted donor network that was the Obama donor network.

2257
01:58:52,320 --> 01:58:54,680
Speaker 1: It wasn't one that belonged to the Democratic Party more

2258
01:58:54,720 --> 01:58:58,080
Speaker 1: than it belonged to him. This is also true of Trump.

2259
01:58:58,160 --> 01:58:59,840
Speaker 1: This is also true of Bush. It's also true of

2260
01:58:59,840 --> 01:59:03,960
Speaker 1: c It's also true both Bush, Bushes, Reagan. I can

2261
01:59:04,040 --> 01:59:08,440
Speaker 1: keep going on and on it is you know, even

2262
01:59:08,560 --> 01:59:11,720
Speaker 1: Carter had his set of his set of donors. I'm

2263
01:59:11,800 --> 01:59:16,160
Speaker 1: surprised that Biden doesn't have more folks in Delaware and

2264
01:59:16,160 --> 01:59:19,440
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia chipping in right. That was always his sort

2265
01:59:19,480 --> 01:59:23,280
Speaker 1: of community, was the Philadelphia business community, and the and

2266
01:59:23,360 --> 01:59:26,680
Speaker 1: the banking sort of the banking industry of Delaware or

2267
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, because of the incorporation rules that they have

2268
01:59:30,760 --> 01:59:35,040
Speaker 1: in Delaware that there was certainly a lot of He

2269
01:59:35,160 --> 01:59:37,520
Speaker 1: never had any trouble raising pack money as a senator

2270
01:59:37,560 --> 01:59:39,839
Speaker 1: put it that way, but he was never the most prolific.

2271
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:42,800
Speaker 1: So but I think so I think you have the

2272
01:59:43,120 --> 01:59:46,560
Speaker 1: main You have Democratic donors who donated to Biden but

2273
01:59:46,960 --> 01:59:50,160
Speaker 1: never considered themselves Biden donors still pretty angry at him,

2274
01:59:50,840 --> 01:59:54,440
Speaker 1: and so I don't think there's so you have that issue.

2275
01:59:55,960 --> 01:59:58,160
Speaker 1: You know, he could use a sugar daddy, like one

2276
01:59:58,240 --> 02:00:01,320
Speaker 1: big donor that might be, you know that might really

2277
02:00:01,400 --> 02:00:03,920
Speaker 1: want to have a presidential library at the University of Delaware,

2278
02:00:04,360 --> 02:00:06,720
Speaker 1: might really want to see something like that, or if

2279
02:00:06,720 --> 02:00:09,560
Speaker 1: they wanted to see it at Penn. Yeah, it's definitely

2280
02:00:09,640 --> 02:00:12,120
Speaker 1: supposed to be in Delaware. He announced that in September.

2281
02:00:15,360 --> 02:00:19,520
Speaker 1: Here's my guess, and what usually is the secret to

2282
02:00:21,320 --> 02:00:24,720
Speaker 1: finding presidential donors wealthy foreigners.

2283
02:00:27,240 --> 02:00:29,080
Speaker 2: And so uh.

2284
02:00:29,480 --> 02:00:33,880
Speaker 1: In that sense, I do wonder if Trump does scare off,

2285
02:00:34,840 --> 02:00:38,440
Speaker 1: if you know, if he's gonna raise money anonymously, But

2286
02:00:38,560 --> 02:00:40,360
Speaker 1: I don't think that's in Biden's nature, and that would

2287
02:00:40,360 --> 02:00:45,280
Speaker 1: make people uncomfortable. I do think there is some concern

2288
02:00:45,400 --> 02:00:49,720
Speaker 1: by some major donors that they don't want to they

2289
02:00:49,760 --> 02:00:52,160
Speaker 1: don't want to, they don't want to that they they

2290
02:00:52,320 --> 02:00:54,880
Speaker 1: believe that donating to Biden in a public way in

2291
02:00:54,920 --> 02:00:56,920
Speaker 1: the Biden Library would put a target on their back

2292
02:00:57,000 --> 02:01:00,360
Speaker 1: for the Trump administration. I think that fear is real,

2293
02:01:01,320 --> 02:01:05,800
Speaker 1: and I don't think it's unfounded in defense here. But

2294
02:01:05,960 --> 02:01:10,600
Speaker 1: I do think the biggest reason why he's had so

2295
02:01:10,720 --> 02:01:16,480
Speaker 1: much trouble is is anger. All right? Next question comes

2296
02:01:16,480 --> 02:01:21,760
Speaker 1: from Adam Shlip. I hope I pronounced that correctly. Hey,

2297
02:01:21,800 --> 02:01:23,840
Speaker 1: listen to your episode on MTG, and Trump reminded me

2298
02:01:23,920 --> 02:01:26,520
Speaker 1: of Benedict Arnold, specifically how he flipped not for ideology

2299
02:01:26,600 --> 02:01:29,120
Speaker 1: but for vanity and money. Trump, like Arnold, seems to

2300
02:01:29,160 --> 02:01:31,400
Speaker 1: have no real convictions, just a price. Even the British

2301
02:01:31,440 --> 02:01:34,400
Speaker 1: Canadians eventually rejected Arnold because no one trusts someone who

2302
02:01:34,480 --> 02:01:37,280
Speaker 1: sells out their own cause. Could Trump's legacy follow a

2303
02:01:37,360 --> 02:01:42,040
Speaker 1: similar arc if the true believers eventually walk away? You know, Adam,

2304
02:01:42,200 --> 02:01:45,560
Speaker 1: I think that's quite possible, right, you know, I have

2305
02:01:45,720 --> 02:01:50,680
Speaker 1: said that I think the biggest problem Republicans face in

2306
02:01:50,840 --> 02:01:53,400
Speaker 1: general over the next two years is I don't think

2307
02:01:53,480 --> 02:01:55,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump cares about the future of the Republican Party.

2308
02:01:56,040 --> 02:01:59,520
Speaker 1: He didn't care about the Republican Party before he got

2309
02:01:59,560 --> 02:02:02,240
Speaker 1: into it. In fact, when he got there, he said

2310
02:02:02,440 --> 02:02:04,840
Speaker 1: you know, all he did was criticize the party. All

2311
02:02:04,880 --> 02:02:07,160
Speaker 1: he said is what a terrible party it had been.

2312
02:02:07,680 --> 02:02:11,280
Speaker 1: They'd had stupid ideas or stupid people, you know, the

2313
02:02:11,360 --> 02:02:17,440
Speaker 1: typical Trump words and analysis. And if you told me

2314
02:02:18,400 --> 02:02:23,600
Speaker 1: in ten years Republicans hadn't elected, hadn't gotten control of

2315
02:02:23,640 --> 02:02:26,960
Speaker 1: the House or the Senator, hadn't elected a president, whether

2316
02:02:27,000 --> 02:02:29,760
Speaker 1: Trump would be happy or sad about that if it

2317
02:02:29,840 --> 02:02:32,840
Speaker 1: were deemed that, you know, boy, only Trump seems to

2318
02:02:32,880 --> 02:02:37,000
Speaker 1: be the only Republican that can win elections. That's the

2319
02:02:37,120 --> 02:02:40,680
Speaker 1: legacy Trump would actually like the most, not that he helped.

2320
02:02:41,920 --> 02:02:46,760
Speaker 1: You know, if there were four straight presidents under the

2321
02:02:46,880 --> 02:02:51,920
Speaker 1: umbrella of MAGA post Trump, would that make them happy

2322
02:02:52,280 --> 02:02:54,280
Speaker 1: or would it make them happier if nobody could win

2323
02:02:54,840 --> 02:02:57,040
Speaker 1: that didn't have the last name of Trump? Right? I

2324
02:02:57,120 --> 02:03:01,400
Speaker 1: think we all know the answer to this, and I

2325
02:03:01,480 --> 02:03:04,400
Speaker 1: think deep down most Republicans know this too. He does

2326
02:03:04,480 --> 02:03:07,080
Speaker 1: not care about the future of the party. He cares

2327
02:03:07,120 --> 02:03:10,760
Speaker 1: about him. And that's the stuff in the last two

2328
02:03:10,840 --> 02:03:14,280
Speaker 1: years of a presidency and why these midterms, and this

2329
02:03:14,400 --> 02:03:16,879
Speaker 1: is why I think that some people are really hesitant

2330
02:03:16,920 --> 02:03:21,480
Speaker 1: about this redistricting gambit because they're trying this is all

2331
02:03:21,560 --> 02:03:26,000
Speaker 1: about Trump staving off lame duck status for about six months,

2332
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:27,920
Speaker 1: which is all it would do if he somehow holds

2333
02:03:27,960 --> 02:03:31,640
Speaker 1: the House. But he's just trying to preserve his own

2334
02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:35,919
Speaker 1: status at the expense perhaps of making Republicans more vulnerable

2335
02:03:35,960 --> 02:03:40,360
Speaker 1: in the long term. I think that's why you're seeing

2336
02:03:41,080 --> 02:03:44,440
Speaker 1: pushback in the places that I would expect it. Indiana

2337
02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:47,160
Speaker 1: is one of those kind of states that they're Republicans

2338
02:03:47,200 --> 02:03:50,680
Speaker 1: before they're Trump people, and you know, you tells another one,

2339
02:03:51,040 --> 02:03:55,680
Speaker 1: but it's certainly a place that I would and I'm

2340
02:03:55,760 --> 02:03:57,600
Speaker 1: not surprised to see this. But I also think that

2341
02:03:57,760 --> 02:04:04,560
Speaker 1: there's a little bit the I think the average Indiana Republican,

2342
02:04:04,800 --> 02:04:08,560
Speaker 1: I think thinks that there's thinks about the world beyond Trump,

2343
02:04:10,400 --> 02:04:12,560
Speaker 1: and I think that that's that's what you might be

2344
02:04:12,640 --> 02:04:17,400
Speaker 1: seeing this. I you know, I happen to think that

2345
02:04:17,600 --> 02:04:21,760
Speaker 1: the I will go this way. As one of my

2346
02:04:21,840 --> 02:04:25,600
Speaker 1: favorite movie lines to use when talking about the industry

2347
02:04:25,640 --> 02:04:29,600
Speaker 1: of television is from the movie Cocktail. Everything else everything

2348
02:04:29,680 --> 02:04:32,320
Speaker 1: ends badly, or else it wouldn't end. It's kind of

2349
02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:34,600
Speaker 1: how I feel about the Trump, how Trump's ten ure

2350
02:04:34,640 --> 02:04:35,800
Speaker 1: is going to end. And by the way, this is

2351
02:04:36,160 --> 02:04:40,080
Speaker 1: you know his You know, he was a disaster for

2352
02:04:40,120 --> 02:04:44,720
Speaker 1: Atlantic City. He eventually had his TV show canceled due

2353
02:04:44,720 --> 02:04:49,760
Speaker 1: to low ratings. Right, everything in Trump's life, every sort

2354
02:04:49,800 --> 02:04:53,400
Speaker 1: of six or seven year cycle, has ended badly, or

2355
02:04:53,480 --> 02:04:57,400
Speaker 1: else it wouldn't have ended. I suspect his political career

2356
02:04:58,400 --> 02:05:01,800
Speaker 1: is it's hard to imagine that's a legacy that's going

2357
02:05:01,880 --> 02:05:04,880
Speaker 1: to get better rather than worse. All right, last question

2358
02:05:05,040 --> 02:05:07,640
Speaker 1: for this episode. It comes from Andy from Indy speaking

2359
02:05:07,680 --> 02:05:10,160
Speaker 1: of Indiana. Hey, check, as a millennial ouf and here

2360
02:05:10,200 --> 02:05:12,920
Speaker 1: from my peers at the political system feels broken and

2361
02:05:13,000 --> 02:05:15,680
Speaker 1: any honest critique tends to spiral into both parties are bad.

2362
02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:18,760
Speaker 1: The constant partisan battling has left many of us exhausted

2363
02:05:18,800 --> 02:05:22,400
Speaker 1: in disillusion. While a viable third party seems unlikely anytime soon,

2364
02:05:22,480 --> 02:05:24,560
Speaker 1: do you think we could see a mixed party presidential ticket,

2365
02:05:24,600 --> 02:05:27,080
Speaker 1: say a Democrat with a Republican VP. Would love to

2366
02:05:27,120 --> 02:05:29,400
Speaker 1: hear your take on any combos you think could actually work.

2367
02:05:29,480 --> 02:05:33,880
Speaker 1: Andy from Indy. You know, look my old mentor the

2368
02:05:33,960 --> 02:05:37,800
Speaker 1: late Doug Bailey, he had a vision in two thousand

2369
02:05:37,800 --> 02:05:43,120
Speaker 1: and eight. He thought he feared that a presidential election

2370
02:05:43,280 --> 02:05:46,440
Speaker 1: between which if starting in two thousand and five, the

2371
02:05:46,480 --> 02:05:50,840
Speaker 1: two front runners were loosely Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton. Right,

2372
02:05:50,960 --> 02:05:55,560
Speaker 1: this is before McCain didn't seem like as where the

2373
02:05:55,640 --> 02:05:59,920
Speaker 1: Republicans were going to go, and he thought that was

2374
02:06:00,120 --> 02:06:05,120
Speaker 1: going to be an opportunity for a bipartisan ticket, that

2375
02:06:05,400 --> 02:06:11,400
Speaker 1: that Rudy v. Hillary, that Rudy v. Hillary would be

2376
02:06:11,680 --> 02:06:15,200
Speaker 1: so divisive that it would open the door for a

2377
02:06:15,280 --> 02:06:19,600
Speaker 1: potential unity ticket. You know, think boy in two thousand

2378
02:06:19,600 --> 02:06:21,680
Speaker 1: and eight, I think he I think he had a vision.

2379
02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:24,080
Speaker 1: He hoped it would be an Obama McCain or McCain

2380
02:06:24,120 --> 02:06:29,680
Speaker 1: Obama right like type of mindset. Or I think John

2381
02:06:29,760 --> 02:06:34,800
Speaker 1: Huntsman as sort of a Republican on one end, or

2382
02:06:35,320 --> 02:06:38,760
Speaker 1: a I'm trying to think of another Democrat at the time,

2383
02:06:38,880 --> 02:06:42,760
Speaker 1: maybe Mark Pryor, who was a conservative Democrat from from

2384
02:06:42,920 --> 02:06:49,640
Speaker 1: from Arkansas, but something in under that category. You know,

2385
02:06:50,000 --> 02:06:52,600
Speaker 1: I think the only here's where I think that, you know,

2386
02:06:52,960 --> 02:06:57,640
Speaker 1: I look at we've had three major, three major third

2387
02:06:57,680 --> 02:07:04,680
Speaker 1: party candidates for president in the last say one hundred

2388
02:07:04,680 --> 02:07:06,920
Speaker 1: and twenty years. Right, One was Teddy Roosevelt in nineteen twelve,

2389
02:07:07,760 --> 02:07:09,920
Speaker 1: one was George Wallace nineteen sixty eight, and one was

2390
02:07:11,080 --> 02:07:17,720
Speaker 1: Ross Pero in nineteen ninety two, and they did sort

2391
02:07:17,720 --> 02:07:20,440
Speaker 1: of help tip the election right, and they certainly influenced

2392
02:07:20,560 --> 02:07:26,920
Speaker 1: Right Wallace's success, which nearly handed the election to Humphrey

2393
02:07:27,400 --> 02:07:29,560
Speaker 1: even though he was winning some of these But it

2394
02:07:29,680 --> 02:07:35,280
Speaker 1: certainly motivated Nixon to pursue a Southern strategy for the

2395
02:07:35,320 --> 02:07:38,960
Speaker 1: Republican Party and led to the eventual sort of Republicanization

2396
02:07:39,160 --> 02:07:45,760
Speaker 1: of the South. It sort of convinced Nixon to shift

2397
02:07:45,800 --> 02:07:50,200
Speaker 1: the Republican Party to the South for the future. Obviously,

2398
02:07:50,360 --> 02:07:56,080
Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt handing the presidency to the Democrats led to

2399
02:07:56,160 --> 02:07:58,800
Speaker 1: a different outcome on a variety of things, but sort

2400
02:07:58,840 --> 02:08:01,440
Speaker 1: of was an attempt to sort of reform both parties.

2401
02:08:01,440 --> 02:08:03,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if it fully did, to be honest,

2402
02:08:03,280 --> 02:08:07,280
Speaker 1: because a very corrupt Republican Party followed Wilson in the twenties,

2403
02:08:07,960 --> 02:08:11,160
Speaker 1: and and so in some ways Teddy failed to do

2404
02:08:11,280 --> 02:08:12,760
Speaker 1: what he was trying to do, which is reform the

2405
02:08:12,800 --> 02:08:15,680
Speaker 1: Republican Party. We didn't get that version of the Republican

2406
02:08:15,720 --> 02:08:20,080
Speaker 1: Party really until Eisenhower, and I would argue that Perode

2407
02:08:20,080 --> 02:08:23,360
Speaker 1: had an impact on both parties fairly positively. Right got

2408
02:08:23,840 --> 02:08:27,560
Speaker 1: Republicans not being so reflexively free trade and got Democrats

2409
02:08:27,960 --> 02:08:30,800
Speaker 1: to be a bit more concerned about the debt and

2410
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:34,880
Speaker 1: deficit and more into fiscally responsible things, so I could

2411
02:08:35,000 --> 02:08:38,760
Speaker 1: picture eate. You know, we have sort of we have

2412
02:08:38,840 --> 02:08:41,880
Speaker 1: a trust deficit in this country, and that's where a

2413
02:08:41,920 --> 02:08:44,640
Speaker 1: bipartisan ticket could help restore that. If we're trying to

2414
02:08:44,720 --> 02:08:49,280
Speaker 1: restore trust in some institutions, if we're trying to reform institutions,

2415
02:08:49,840 --> 02:08:52,560
Speaker 1: doing it on a bipartisan level is about the only

2416
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:55,920
Speaker 1: way you're going to get collected buy in. And you know,

2417
02:08:56,440 --> 02:08:58,360
Speaker 1: if we feel as it, you know, to me, if

2418
02:08:58,400 --> 02:09:04,000
Speaker 1: the country, I think we need a by something like this,

2419
02:09:04,280 --> 02:09:07,400
Speaker 1: some sort of third party or to sort of to

2420
02:09:07,520 --> 02:09:10,200
Speaker 1: sort of force both parties to think of themselves in

2421
02:09:10,320 --> 02:09:12,960
Speaker 1: broader terms. Right, I don't think either party. I feel

2422
02:09:13,000 --> 02:09:15,600
Speaker 1: like they're both in retreat as far as they're you know,

2423
02:09:15,720 --> 02:09:19,960
Speaker 1: not thinking about creating broad majorities, but thinking about creating

2424
02:09:20,320 --> 02:09:28,000
Speaker 1: deep majority deep majorities, but more narrow and so you know,

2425
02:09:28,120 --> 02:09:30,840
Speaker 1: you look out there. I would tell you this if

2426
02:09:30,880 --> 02:09:36,600
Speaker 1: you you know, Wes Moore, uh, Spencer Cox, right, And

2427
02:09:36,680 --> 02:09:38,200
Speaker 1: I don't care what order you give it to me.

2428
02:09:38,800 --> 02:09:43,520
Speaker 1: If we're looking for a pair of leaders a bipartisan

2429
02:09:43,640 --> 02:09:49,400
Speaker 1: set of leaders who who who singular goal was to

2430
02:09:49,480 --> 02:09:54,680
Speaker 1: be pastors for patriotism, to sort of restore the idea

2431
02:09:55,120 --> 02:09:58,960
Speaker 1: of America before the country before party. I think that

2432
02:09:59,040 --> 02:10:01,480
Speaker 1: would be your best ticket. And I don't care which

2433
02:10:01,560 --> 02:10:04,640
Speaker 1: order you put it in, but I think I think

2434
02:10:04,720 --> 02:10:10,320
Speaker 1: both of those gentlemen do govern thinking about their state

2435
02:10:10,400 --> 02:10:13,760
Speaker 1: before thinking about their party. And you know, I don't

2436
02:10:13,800 --> 02:10:17,040
Speaker 1: know how many I don't know how many elected officials

2437
02:10:17,080 --> 02:10:21,280
Speaker 1: i'd put in that category, but they're you know, they're

2438
02:10:21,320 --> 02:10:28,080
Speaker 1: two people, Mark Kelly, John Curtis, another Utah politician, John

2439
02:10:28,120 --> 02:10:33,320
Speaker 1: Curtis as a senator, you know, Rafael Warnock and James Langford,

2440
02:10:33,520 --> 02:10:37,200
Speaker 1: the two ordained pastors in the Senate. That would be

2441
02:10:37,200 --> 02:10:39,760
Speaker 1: an interesting pairing. To me, It's all about what moment

2442
02:10:39,800 --> 02:10:42,560
Speaker 1: are we trying to meet right at the time that

2443
02:10:42,640 --> 02:10:45,520
Speaker 1: you're trying to put this together. Is it to restore

2444
02:10:46,160 --> 02:10:51,160
Speaker 1: trust in government? Is it to restore faith in the country,

2445
02:10:51,240 --> 02:10:53,040
Speaker 1: Is it to heal the country? Is it to try

2446
02:10:53,080 --> 02:10:54,080
Speaker 1: to unify the country?

2447
02:10:54,200 --> 02:10:54,320
Speaker 2: Right?

2448
02:10:54,360 --> 02:10:56,560
Speaker 1: I think it there's you know, I think there's different

2449
02:10:56,600 --> 02:10:58,800
Speaker 1: skill sets. But when I start to think about certain

2450
02:10:58,840 --> 02:11:02,640
Speaker 1: people who I think have the ability two because it

2451
02:11:02,640 --> 02:11:06,640
Speaker 1: would in order to work in order to pair up

2452
02:11:06,680 --> 02:11:07,800
Speaker 1: with somebody on the other side of Oh, you got

2453
02:11:07,880 --> 02:11:11,320
Speaker 1: to leave your party. So who could I picture being

2454
02:11:11,440 --> 02:11:15,320
Speaker 1: comfortable leaving their party under a circumstance like that. And

2455
02:11:15,920 --> 02:11:18,760
Speaker 1: you know, look, I could you know, I'll give you

2456
02:11:18,800 --> 02:11:21,360
Speaker 1: another odd pair that you would say, what are you

2457
02:11:21,440 --> 02:11:24,600
Speaker 1: talking about? But you know I could see Rand Paul

2458
02:11:24,720 --> 02:11:27,600
Speaker 1: and a John Tester, you know, type of type of

2459
02:11:27,680 --> 02:11:31,280
Speaker 1: pairing when you're looking for bipartisan pairs that I think

2460
02:11:31,320 --> 02:11:34,320
Speaker 1: could work together again depending on you know, if they

2461
02:11:34,360 --> 02:11:37,840
Speaker 1: were depending on what problem you were trying to solve.

2462
02:11:38,680 --> 02:11:40,720
Speaker 1: But I you know, Mark Kelly is in that category.

2463
02:11:40,840 --> 02:11:49,560
Speaker 1: John Curtis, Lisa Rakowski, I'd probably put I'd have put

2464
02:11:49,600 --> 02:11:51,520
Speaker 1: a John Cornyan in that category. I had to put

2465
02:11:51,520 --> 02:11:54,360
Speaker 1: a Build Cassidy. We know Buil Cassidy actually showed some

2466
02:11:54,440 --> 02:11:58,440
Speaker 1: interest in the No Labels in the no label situation

2467
02:11:58,520 --> 02:12:02,120
Speaker 1: when No Labels was seeing if they recruit a bipartisan ticket.

2468
02:12:02,240 --> 02:12:05,360
Speaker 1: You know, I think they were dreaming of a Mansion

2469
02:12:05,440 --> 02:12:09,840
Speaker 1: Hogan ticket, Joe Manchin and Larry Hogan. So you know, look,

2470
02:12:09,920 --> 02:12:13,040
Speaker 1: I love these fantasy conversations, but I emphasize the word

2471
02:12:13,120 --> 02:12:15,680
Speaker 1: fantasy a lot of times. It's very hard for these

2472
02:12:15,720 --> 02:12:18,080
Speaker 1: guys to leave their party. It's so hard for them

2473
02:12:18,120 --> 02:12:20,920
Speaker 1: to leave their party. They have a hard time doing it.

2474
02:12:21,400 --> 02:12:23,120
Speaker 1: And you have to leave your party to do something

2475
02:12:23,200 --> 02:12:28,480
Speaker 1: like this, you have to be done, and it's it's so,

2476
02:12:28,920 --> 02:12:32,760
Speaker 1: you know it. And for this to succeed, it requires

2477
02:12:32,840 --> 02:12:36,280
Speaker 1: both parties going to their extremes, and usually we don't

2478
02:12:36,320 --> 02:12:38,760
Speaker 1: have that right. When one party goes too far one way,

2479
02:12:39,480 --> 02:12:42,720
Speaker 1: usually the other party then tries to become the party

2480
02:12:42,760 --> 02:12:45,600
Speaker 1: for the center right, tries to absorb the center and

2481
02:12:45,720 --> 02:12:47,880
Speaker 1: so which is frankly, I think it been a very

2482
02:12:47,920 --> 02:12:49,800
Speaker 1: effective way to create a check and balance in our

2483
02:12:49,840 --> 02:12:53,400
Speaker 1: country between the two parties. It's when it's in those

2484
02:12:53,440 --> 02:12:58,040
Speaker 1: weird moments when both parties split apart. Maybe we're oncoming

2485
02:12:58,120 --> 02:13:01,080
Speaker 1: to one of those moments, and if we do, then

2486
02:13:01,160 --> 02:13:06,839
Speaker 1: perhaps there is room for this year. But I ultimately

2487
02:13:06,880 --> 02:13:10,800
Speaker 1: don't think we're going to be there. And obviously my dog, Kelly,

2488
02:13:11,480 --> 02:13:15,840
Speaker 1: she is ready for this podcast to end, So with that,

2489
02:13:17,600 --> 02:13:19,160
Speaker 1: I will see you in twenty four hours