1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ketch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, Cocklay and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: Following breaking news that we just got from President Trump 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: courtesy of his True social feed, where he informed us 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: he just spoke to Russian President Vladimir Putin by phone 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 2: for over an hour, a conversation that the President described 10 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: as a good one, but not a conversation he said 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 2: that will lead to immediate peace, noting that Putin said 12 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 2: very strongly he will have to respond to the recent 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 2: attack on the airfields, referring Joe, of course, to the 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: drone strikes we saw across deep into Russian territory last weekend. 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 3: This could mean some very difficult days ahead for the 16 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 3: Ukrainian people, knowing that Russia has preference of attacking civilian targets, 17 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 3: unlike what we saw from Ukraine. Over the course of 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 3: the next half hour, we're going to bring you two 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 3: very important voices in the midst of breaking news today 20 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 3: in Washington, with all the stories we're talking about. Republican 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 3: Senator Bill Haggerty of Tennessee will join along with Democratic 22 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 3: Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, all in the next twenty 23 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 3: minutes here on the fastest show in Politics. We do 24 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 3: want to start on Capitol Hill, though, Kayley with all 25 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 3: of the breaking news today in Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall First, Tyler, 26 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 3: welcome back. On this phone call lasted over an hour, 27 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 3: Trump and Putin. What else do we know? 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, hey, Joel Keyley read one of the key lines 29 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 4: from President Trump's truth social posts, which is that he 30 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 4: said it was a good conversation, but not one that's 31 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 4: going to ultimately lead to immediate peace. Now, of course 32 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 4: this was it was not known that they were going 33 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 4: to have this call, but does come after the two 34 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 4: leaders did speak by phone last month, and it contributed 35 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 4: to what was really mounting frustration from this White House 36 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 4: when it comes to really stalled progress towards reaching a ceasefire. 37 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 4: We're going to be watching how this really escalates as 38 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 4: President Trump does confirm that Vladimir Putin has those plans 39 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 4: to retaliate after we really saw that surprise a drone 40 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 4: attack by Ukraine that went so deep into Russian territory 41 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 4: it it hit areas as far as Siberia. Now, we 42 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 4: should say that earlier today Vladimir Putin did come out 43 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 4: and he dismissed the idea of meeting face to face 44 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 4: with his Ukrainian counterpart, something that Ukraine says ultimately needs 45 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 4: to happen if there is going to be progress when 46 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 4: it comes to these talks. It also comes against a 47 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 4: broader backdrop of a Bloomberg News scoop earlier this morning 48 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 4: that the US does not have plans to provide air 49 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 4: defenses to back a reassurance force that would comprise of 50 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 4: the United Kingdom in France that has been trying to 51 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 4: convince the United States to give some firmer security guarantees 52 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 4: moving forward here that would back any potential deal. So 53 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 4: we're going to be watching closely how this ultimately ends 54 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 4: up developing, because, as you well know, the US has 55 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 4: gone to Russia before with a potential plan that could 56 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 4: even see freezing the back of the battlefield lines where 57 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 4: they were, but that hasn't been enough to move the 58 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 4: needle in really a significant way as of yet. 59 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: Well and Tyler, as we consider the implications for what 60 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 2: this means in terms of Russia's behavior in negotiations over 61 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: the war in Ukraine. It seems President Trump is also 62 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: suggesting that Russia will have a role to play in 63 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: separate negotiations with Iron. 64 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 4: Right exactly. And that's going to be a really interesting 65 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 4: one to follow here too. As we know, this really 66 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 4: is a priority for this White House to ultimately try 67 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 4: to make some kind of progress here. I believe that 68 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 4: the fifth rounds of talks just concluded, and we're seeing 69 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 4: Oman really be an a mediator in these talks, but 70 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 4: details haven't really emerged, including how a potential deal would 71 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 4: differ from the JCPOA, which the US pulled out of 72 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 4: under the first Trump administration. 73 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 3: Tyler, we thought we'd been talking first with you about reconciliation. 74 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 3: This is an important day on the track to make 75 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 3: the Trump tax cuts either permanent or extended. You've got 76 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 3: members Republican members of the Senate Finance Committee headed to 77 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 3: the White House to meet with President Trump, among them 78 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 3: Senator Ron Johnson, who says he's a flat no unless 79 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: these deficit numbers change. This, of course, follows the missive 80 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 3: several of them overnight again from Elon Musk and now 81 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 3: news from the CBO. How important is this meeting today, Tyler. 82 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, the stakes are incredibly high, Joe, as the White 83 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 4: House really does try to ramp up the pressure on 84 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 4: these Republicans with President Trump picking up the phone and 85 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 4: calling them directly. Now you alluded to this before. Perhaps 86 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 4: the most vocal group that's emerging as this group that 87 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 4: are pitching themselves as fiscal hawks, and that includes Ron Johnson. 88 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 4: And I actually had the chance to catch up with 89 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 4: the Senator from Wisconsin earlier today. He's pushing for those 90 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 4: deeper spending cuts. He says he's in close touch with 91 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 4: the White House and he realizes that it might take 92 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 4: some time to get the sort of spending cuts that 93 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 4: he's really looking for. 94 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 5: If I'm wrong, challenge me. I want to get in 95 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 5: that dialogue, Kudas, and that is really my discussion for Trump. 96 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 5: And so he had Kevin Hasson comment right away, I'll 97 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 5: be meeting with Secretary. So he wants to engage, yet 98 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 5: he wants to reduce spending. It's just hard to do. 99 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 5: I'm not denying that fact. Was the slender majority in 100 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 5: the House and Democrats having no interest what soever at 101 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 5: reducing spending. That's our problem now. 102 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 4: Of course, the other side of this, Joe and Kelly, 103 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 4: is that the White House is dealing with conflicting demands. 104 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 4: So you have some senators here that are calling for 105 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 4: deeper spending cuts, raising some concerns about how some of 106 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 4: the tax sweeteners, whether or not they would really contribute 107 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 4: or incentivize growth over the long term. But then you 108 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 4: have a group of Republicans that are concerned about what 109 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 4: spending cuts ultimately will mean for Medicaid. Now, we should 110 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 4: say that there's pretty broad agreement about those core pillars 111 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 4: of this plan, including extending the twenty seventeen tax cuts. 112 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, there are really 113 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 4: slim margins here in the Senate. They can only afford 114 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 4: to lose three votes. 115 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: Indeed, all right, Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall live on Capitol Hill 116 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: for us. Thank you so much, and it's on Capitol 117 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 2: Hill that we stay here on Balance of Power Bloomberg 118 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: TV and Radio. As we turn to Republican Senator Bill 119 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: Haggerty of Tennessee, who is back with us on the program. Senator, 120 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: we appreciate your time. As we just heard our colleague Tyler, 121 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 2: they're outlining that various portions of your body have demands 122 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 2: as to what it will take to get them to 123 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: a yes vote on this legislation. What's yours? What change 124 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: do you need to see for you to vote for 125 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: this package? 126 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 6: I think the most critical thing to keep in mind, Kayley, 127 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 6: is the fact that if we don't get this done, 128 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 6: Americans looking at a north of four trillion dollar tax increase. 129 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 6: I was talking with Kevin Hasset at the White House yesterday. 130 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 6: His projections are that that would yield a six percent 131 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 6: decrease in our nation's GDP. That would be terrible for America. Frankly, 132 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 6: be terrible for the world economy. We can't let that happen. 133 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 6: The main interest I have is making certain that we 134 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 6: stimulate more capital investment in America, because more capital investment 135 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 6: will be get more jobs, more jobs, more economic activity. 136 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 6: This will have a very positive impact on the economy, 137 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 6: and frankly, it's something that the Congressional Budget Office completely 138 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 6: misses in their analysis. They missed it at an incredible 139 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 6: level back after the twenty seventeen tax cuts and jobs 140 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 6: after passed. In fact, they missed it by north of 141 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 6: a trillion dollars worth of revenues. So I think that 142 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 6: my colleagues need to certainly take into account the fact 143 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 6: that this is a pro growth bill. This tax package 144 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 6: is going to stimulate more economic activity here in America. 145 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 6: We will see growth that's not captured in the CBO estimates, 146 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 6: but will have a material impact on our economy, on 147 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 6: our well being, and frankly, in terms of going the 148 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 6: right direction to reducing the deficit. 149 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 3: Will Senator, We've got a lot of questions about what's inside, 150 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 3: and it's great to have you back on Bloomberg. You 151 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: mentioned the CBO, so I do have to ask you 152 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 3: about that. Two big headlines today coming out of the 153 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 3: Congressional Budget Office. First, the Republican tax bill that cleared 154 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: the House they say would add two point four trillion 155 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 3: dollars to US deficits. But that same Congressional Budget Office, 156 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 3: which I know Republicans criticize a lot, is not projecting 157 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 3: the Trump tariffs will cut the budget gap by two 158 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 3: point eight trillion. Do you buy that number? 159 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 6: And if so, is this bill paid for well? In 160 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 6: the first case, what they do is static analysis. They 161 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 6: don't take into account the dynamic of investment in the 162 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 6: economy that we yield grow, so I think that's patently wrong. 163 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 6: And the second with regard to tariff revenue, it's possible, 164 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 6: but we're not nearly to the end of our trade negotiations, 165 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 6: Jamison Greer. Our trade rep working is hard out to 166 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 6: try to bring together a significant sea change in the 167 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 6: way America is treated on the global stage. I think 168 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 6: we're going to make great progress, but it's very hard 169 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 6: for me to say right now, and I don't know 170 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 6: how the CBO is able to say this. Where we're 171 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 6: going to land on tariff revenues as well? 172 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 2: Well, Yeah, it is worth pointing out the CBO was 173 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: only scoring tariff revenues through where tariff stood as of 174 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: May thirteenth, and we already know changes have been made 175 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: since then. There's still some legal questions around whether or 176 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: not AIPA is going to stand, Senator, so we have 177 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: to bear that in mind. We've heard from the Senate 178 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 2: Majority Leader John fun that there's going to have to 179 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: be some adjustments made to the salt cap, something that 180 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 2: House Republicans from those salt districts say would essentially mean 181 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: that the deal dies when it returns back to the 182 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: How else, knowing that the debt ceiling lift is also 183 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: attached to this legislation. Do you see risk around making 184 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 2: changes like that? Could that bring the US closer to 185 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 2: the brink of default? 186 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 6: Well, I think there's always risk in any situation like 187 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 6: this where you have a complex bill. Kayley, We're going 188 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 6: to have a conference meeting right after I'm on with 189 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 6: you now to begin the process of talking through where 190 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 6: the Senate is going to land here, and I do 191 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 6: expect that there'll be improvements. It will be different, they'll 192 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 6: be deeper cuts, and we'll start to see texts coming 193 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 6: out on Friday. What I don't want to do is 194 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 6: try to get ahead of those who are negotiating. As 195 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 6: you know, the Finance Committee is going to the White 196 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 6: House right now to meet with President Trump. This is 197 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 6: a process that's underway. But I can say this at 198 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 6: a very high level, my colleagues in the Senate want 199 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 6: to see more cuts, more definite reduction. But at the 200 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 6: same time, I've been encouraging everyone to move expediously to 201 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 6: make certain that this happens extremely quickly because the United 202 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 6: States economy needs certainty, and with that certainty, we're going 203 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 6: to see more capital investment. The longer this takes again, 204 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 6: the less certain that we've got, and that's going to 205 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 6: have a negative impact on capital investment here in America. 206 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 3: With that in mind, Senator, I'd love to explore the 207 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 3: idea of permanence with you, because we're hearing about this 208 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 3: a lot more now, the likes of Steve Danes and 209 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 3: others who say, no, we need to make permanent certain 210 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 3: business tax breaks, specifically the full research and development deduction, 211 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 3: bonus depreciation, and interest expensing. Are you on board with 212 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 3: making them permanent? 213 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 6: Certainly I am. I agree with the premise completely, and 214 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 6: you know, Steve Danes is a business person just like me. 215 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 6: We understand the importance of being able to make long 216 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 6: term plans with respect to capital investments. That's what's driving 217 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 6: Steve's Steve's position, I think he's exactly right, and we 218 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 6: need to extend these as far as we possibly can. 219 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 6: Permanent is the best possible answer we could achieve. 220 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 2: Senator. Of course, well, you and your colleagues are working 221 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: on reconciliation. There is also active actively underway an effort 222 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 2: to advance the stable coin legislation, the Genius Act. Last 223 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 2: time you were on with us, we talked about some 224 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 2: of the various amendments that were being put forward, which 225 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: you said are being worked through. Have you had direct 226 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 2: conversations or recently with either the Majority Leader or Senator 227 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 2: Roger Marshall about whether or not the Credit Card Competition 228 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: Act is going to become a real factor here. 229 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 6: Yes, those conversations are under way. I certainly respect the 230 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 6: process that we're addressing, but right now this really isn't 231 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 6: about policy, nor is it process. We're just trying to 232 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 6: get floor time right now to get this processed. We 233 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 6: have brought agreement, Kayley, with respect to the content of 234 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 6: the stable coin legislation, my Genius Act, and this is 235 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 6: going to, I think, take us into the twenty first 236 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 6: century in terms of upgrading our payment systems. It's going 237 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 6: to have very desirable effects, taking the US economy into 238 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 6: the digital assets arena, keeping innovation here, lowering risk here 239 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 6: in America, and putting in place guardrails that will protect 240 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 6: consumers because every one of these stable coins will be 241 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 6: backed up dollar for dollar with US treasuries. Very positive 242 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 6: outcome here. We've got very strong support. 243 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 3: So Okay, what's the timeline, Senator, and what does it 244 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 3: mean for the Clarity Acts coming out of the House Joe. 245 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 6: The timeline is the key issue right now. The window 246 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 6: is closed on us to get this done because we've 247 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 6: got to turn our attention to reconciliation. As I mentioned, 248 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 6: we're going to a conference meeting, our first broad conference meeting, 249 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 6: to talk about the Reconciliation Bill. We need to get 250 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 6: the Genius Act passed. When need to get it on 251 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 6: the floor. And that's where my discussions have been with 252 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 6: the Leader and with my colleagues, is getting that time 253 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:17,599 Speaker 6: on the floor as soon as possible. I like to 254 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 6: start it today tomorrow, but I like to get that 255 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 6: time on the floor as soon as possible because then 256 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 6: we can turn our attention to dealing with the Reconciliation 257 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 6: Act and getting more confirmations across the floor. 258 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: And when will your attention, Senator turned to market structure 259 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 2: And when the time comes to actually look at a 260 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 2: market structure bill, how can do you expect it will 261 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 2: be to the Clarity Act that was just introduced in 262 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: the House last week. 263 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 6: Well, there's been a great deal of good work that's 264 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 6: been done in the House. A lot of questions have 265 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 6: come up in the process of building the stable coin 266 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 6: legislation that have been more appropriate to market structure. We're 267 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 6: focused on it. We've already begun the process of building 268 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 6: it here in the Senate. Again, as I mentioned, a 269 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 6: lot of it's natural out growth, outgrowth of the stable 270 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 6: coin legislation that we've been pushing forward. So we're going 271 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 6: to turn our attention immediately to that. But I think 272 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 6: the most immediate thing that will happen is the reconciliation 273 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 6: bill coming to the floor of the Senate. In the meantime, 274 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 6: I pledged to President Trump I would get this done 275 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 6: in the first one hundred days if I possibly could. 276 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 6: We've exceeded that by a bit. But President Trump wants 277 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,599 Speaker 6: to see this legislation on his desk. JD. Advance was 278 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 6: at the Bitcoin conference in Las Vegas just last week 279 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 6: saying he wants to see a clean bill in front 280 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 6: of him on stable coin legislation in front of President Trump, 281 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 6: and I think we can get there. 282 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 3: Interesting as you bear down on a reconciliation tax and 283 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 3: spend legislation here, Senator, I know it's going to be 284 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 3: an important day, and you're walking into this meeting after 285 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 3: we're done with our conversation to begin hearing from Republican 286 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 3: members of the House who apparently didn't have enough time 287 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 3: to read the whole bill. Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green says 288 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 3: she's a no, having not read a section banning states 289 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 3: from passing their own AI regulations. Mike Flood, Republican from Nebraska, 290 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 3: doesn't like this idea making it harder for judges to 291 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 3: hold officials in contempt of court. They both didn't see 292 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 3: it in the first pass. Have you had a chance 293 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 3: to read that bill? 294 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 6: Having gone through the entire of the bill, we're in 295 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 6: the process of reviewing all the texts that just came 296 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 6: over in the past couple of days. But again, we're 297 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 6: moving on it. The Finance Committee is at the White 298 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 6: House negotiating it right now. The text is in process, 299 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 6: and it's an item that's in motion. I understand that 300 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 6: there may be items here that not everyone is happy with, 301 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 6: but at the end of the day, we're going to 302 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,559 Speaker 6: have to compromise and get it done. I'll come back 303 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 6: to the original point. The American economy needs this certainty, 304 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 6: and I'm going to be working my heart out to 305 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 6: make certain that we deliver the best possible product we 306 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 6: can here. But I'll remind you as well, this isn't 307 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 6: the last bite at the Apple. We'll have the opportunity 308 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 6: to have another reconciliation process coming up fairly soon. So 309 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 6: we're going to find a number of other opportunities to 310 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 6: improve the situation here in the American economy. It achieves 311 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 6: some of the other objectives our legislators and we can 312 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 6: if we don't solve it all here, we'll have another 313 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 6: opportunity to do that. 314 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: Well. 315 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 2: Senator, you will have an opportunity as soon as tonight 316 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: to vote for the confirmation of Mickey Bowman to be 317 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 2: the Fed's new Vice CHAIRFF Supervision after the cloture vote 318 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: passed earlier today. This comes just a day after the 319 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 2: FED officially lifted the asset cap on Wells Fargo starting today. 320 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 2: Is this a new a era of banking regulation in 321 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: the United States? 322 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 6: I certainly think so. Michael Barr took us in exactly 323 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 6: the wrong direction, and I'm very glad to see someone 324 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 6: with the sensibilities of Mickey coming into this position. She's 325 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 6: going to do a great job. What we need to 326 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 6: do is return to the overarching mission of making certain 327 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 6: that her capital markets are as competitive and safe as 328 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 6: they possibly can be. Get out of the business. These 329 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 6: extraneous policy issues, whether it regards climate or other sorts 330 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 6: of issues that essentially make the US economy less competitive, 331 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 6: and the goal plating that Michael Barr attempted to do 332 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 6: making US a subject even more regulations than the Europeans 333 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 6: only Hamper's American Capital Formation. Mickey has a very different 334 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 6: point of view, and I'm very excited to see her 335 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 6: come into this role. 336 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 3: Well, it is interesting seeing this asset cap lifted on 337 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 3: Wells Fargo today, Senator, your colleague Elizabeth Warren, who's going 338 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 3: to be with us a bit later this hour, is 339 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 3: asking for five years of exam reports from the Bank 340 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 3: as a member of the Banking Committee, having suggested that 341 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 3: they've not gone a year without breaking the law. Statement says, 342 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 3: it's stunning the Fed could not wait till the company 343 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 3: went a full year without breaking the law before wiping 344 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 3: its slate clean. Should she get those documents, should the 345 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 3: committee see them. 346 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 6: I'm all for transparency, Joe, and I'm all for having 347 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 6: committee members have access to the information that they need. 348 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 6: But I'm not about to respond to something that Elizabeth 349 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 6: Warren has said, just based on what she probably doesn't have. 350 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 6: You know, she didn't have access to the documents at 351 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 6: this point. So I don't understand her leveling these accusations, 352 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 6: but she's wont to do that. 353 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 2: Well, I wonder, Senator, if you'd like to respond to 354 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 2: something President Trump has just said, as he shared with 355 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 2: us on True Social that he spent an hour and 356 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes on the phone today with Russian President Vladimir Putin. 357 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: He suggested that phone call will not lead to an 358 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: immediate peace with Ukraine, but went on to say that 359 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: Putin believes or suggested he could participate in discussions with Iran. 360 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 2: And of course, the US approach to Iran is something 361 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: I know you feel quite passionate, passionately about. Is it 362 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: appropriate for Russia to be stepping in here? 363 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 6: Well, I think you understand well the fact that the 364 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 6: previous administration removed all of the maximum pressure campaign that 365 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 6: we had imposed on Iran. We had Iran to a 366 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 6: point where they were ready to deal. Their reserves were 367 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 6: below ten billion dollars. As soon as the Biden administration 368 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 6: came in, they stopped enforcing the sanctions. They put Iran 369 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 6: in a position to fund terror. We saw what happened 370 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 6: with Hamas, we saw what happened with Husbalah, We saw 371 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 6: what happened with the houtis we're bringing that situation back 372 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 6: under control. We're putting back in place at maximum sanctions, 373 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 6: and we also have the opportunity to get the world 374 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 6: behind us, and I think the world should be behind 375 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 6: us to ensure that Iran does not have the capability 376 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 6: to threaten the rest of the world as they seem 377 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 6: to want to do. President Trump has every right to 378 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 6: seek out other world leaders, to find allies wherever you may, 379 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 6: but at the end of the day, it's going to 380 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 6: be up to us to take the leadership position to 381 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 6: deal with Iran and to make certain that they don't 382 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 6: have the capability or the capacity to threaten the rest 383 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 6: of the world as they have in the past. And 384 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,239 Speaker 6: understand this, they're behind all of the terror and all 385 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 6: the disruption in the Middle East. It's got to come 386 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 6: to an end. 387 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 3: A deep dive with Republican Senator Bill Haggarty of Tennessee. Senator, 388 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 3: it's good to see you, and we appreciate all of 389 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 3: your time today on Bloomberg TV and Radio. We're going 390 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 3: to continue our conversation as we crossed the aisle, coming 391 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 3: up to speak with Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts 392 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 3: about these very same issues. 393 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcasts. Catch 394 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's durn 395 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: on Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 396 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 397 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 398 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 2: Starting the move, we're seeing in Wells Fargo shares today 399 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 2: up just about three quarters of one percent on the 400 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: day after the FED lifted the asset cap that has 401 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 2: hampered the bank's growth for years now. But I would 402 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 2: note Joe that Wells Fargo shares are also up about 403 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 2: twenty percent since election day, so there was a lot 404 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 2: of anticipation that this asset cap would indeed get lifted 405 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: under this Trump administration. 406 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 3: There definitely popping quarks at Wells Fargo. Elizabeth Warren, on 407 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 3: the other hand, is not as we told you. Will 408 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 3: be joined here by the Democratic Senator from Massachusetts, having 409 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 3: issued a blistering statement following this FED decision, Kaylee, saying 410 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 3: the entire Federal Reserve Board, including appointees of both parties, 411 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 3: should be embarrassed. She's with us now. The Democrat from 412 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 3: Massachusetts live from Capitol Hill. Senator, it's great to see 413 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 3: you back on Bloomberg TV and radio. You are demanding 414 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 3: five years of exam reports from Wells Fargo, and I 415 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 3: wonder what leverage you have here how far you would 416 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 3: go to get them. Would you threaten to hold up 417 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 3: the nomination, for instance, of Michelle Bowman as the Fed's 418 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 3: Vice Chair of Supervision to get them. 419 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 7: Look, I'm already opposed to having Michelle Bowman as the 420 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 7: vice chair for supervision. This is someone who has never 421 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 7: seen a regulation for a giant bank that she wasn't 422 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 7: willing to cut or undermine. But understand this about Wells Fargo. 423 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 7: I think before you decide to lift this big penalty 424 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 7: that's been in place for Wells Fargo for seven years now, 425 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 7: you should ask for maybe one year in which they 426 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 7: aren't caught breaking the law. Remember that in January of 427 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 7: this year, the SEC tagged Wells Fargo for cheating investors. 428 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 7: In December, the CFPB tagged Wells Fargo for cheating American 429 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 7: consumers bit it with way to the tune of over 430 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 7: eight hundred million dollars, And in September, the OCC tagged 431 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 7: Wells Fargo for money laundry. So we have the three 432 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 7: big banking regulators all saying Wells Fargo's out there still 433 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 7: breaking the law. And then a report just a few 434 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 7: weeks ago by former and current Wells Fargo employees saying 435 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 7: that the very activities that Wells Fargo engaged in seven 436 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 7: years ago, where they created fake accounts for people and 437 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 7: so on, because they were pressing their employees to get 438 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 7: those numbers in to get more people signed up for 439 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 7: more accounts, that that same activity is occurring today. And 440 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 7: those of the circumstances under which the Fed unanimously says, hey, 441 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 7: Wells Fargo, get on out of here. You don't need 442 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 7: any extra regulation. Now, that just doesn't wash. 443 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 2: Do you see any potential benefit here, Senator though, of 444 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: Wells Fargo being able to better compete with other big banks, 445 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 2: for the competitive landscape to change in that way. 446 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 7: Look, I'm all for competition, but I don't think that 447 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,959 Speaker 7: cheaters ought to have a leg up in competing. And 448 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 7: that's really the part to remember here about Wells Fargo. 449 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 7: The reason we want to have good enforcement of all 450 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 7: of the banking laws is that the banks that actually 451 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 7: follow the law, the banks that aren't engaged in money laundering, 452 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 7: or the banks that are not cheating their investors, that 453 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 7: those banks ought to be able to play on a 454 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 7: level playing field. And Wells Fargo, we know starting seven 455 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 7: years ago that Wells Fargo was so boosting its profits 456 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 7: and by the way, it's CEO compensation based on cheating 457 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 7: American customers. And in fact, it was so awful what 458 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 7: they did that it wasn't just civil penalties. They were 459 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 7: in violation of criminal laws. So the idea that, boyd, 460 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 7: we want to get them right back out there competing 461 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 7: with the other banks at a time when their own 462 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 7: employees are saying, hey, they're back to doing the stuff 463 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 7: they were doing before. That's not the direction we want 464 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 7: to go. 465 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 3: Senator Elizabeth Warren live with us on Bloomberg TV and Radio. 466 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 3: I'm going to ask you to walk with me here 467 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 3: for a second, Senator, because I don't know if Donald 468 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 3: Trump is watching us right now, but the President is 469 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 3: posting about you right now, just untruth social Donald Trump writes, quote, 470 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 3: I am very pleased to announce that, after all these years, 471 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 3: I agree with Senator Elizabeth Warren on something. The debt 472 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 3: limit should be entirely scrapped to prevent an economic catastrophe. 473 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,959 Speaker 3: He's reposting you here where you suggest as much. This 474 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 3: is less than twenty four hours after Elon Musk said, 475 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 3: shame on Republicans who passed the reconciliation bill in the House. 476 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 3: You're finding yourself within a twenty four hour period, agreeing 477 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 3: with Donald Trump and Elon Musk. What's going on around here? 478 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 7: Well, look, I think on the debt ceiling, I've been 479 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 7: on this for many, many years. The debt ceiling is 480 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 7: just something that's been used as leverage in negotiations. The 481 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 7: United States should never, never threaten to default on its debt. 482 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 7: We should get rid of this debt ceiling altogether. When 483 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 7: we pass a bill saying that we're going to do 484 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 7: a certain thing, that is our saying, and we're going 485 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 7: to pay for it, that's what the United States government does. 486 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 7: So I think that Donald Trump and I, hey listen, 487 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 7: I'm ready to join up with him and make that happen. 488 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 7: We need to get rid of the debt ceiling altogether, 489 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 7: not extend it. Not say ooh, while this is going 490 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 7: on this budget negotiation, let's just roll out a few 491 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 7: trillion dollars more in the debt ceiling. Nope, that has 492 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 7: gotten us into trouble before it continues to get us 493 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 7: into trouble. Donald Trump is right, let's get rid of 494 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 7: it all together. 495 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: Well, so, Senator, if we are to see if the 496 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: Senate and House cannot get this reconciliation bill through in 497 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 2: time for the mid July request the Treasury Secretary has 498 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 2: made to avoid bumping up against the X state, would 499 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 2: you support an initiative like that separately, a legislative effort 500 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 2: to eliminate the debt ceiling before that X state comes. 501 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 7: Look, we should do it now. There's no reason to delay. 502 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 7: Donald Trump is exactly right on this. It's what I've 503 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 7: been arguing for literally for years, and that is get 504 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 7: rid of the debt ceiling. It's serving no fun except 505 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 7: for holdout parties to try to use in negotiations, and 506 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 7: that makes no sense. That doesn't serve our nation. But 507 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 7: we should do that now. It doesn't need to be 508 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 7: tied to anything, it doesn't need any special date on it. 509 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 7: Ask the Republicans, they're the ones in control of the floor. 510 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 7: Let's bring that to the floor right now. It's a 511 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 7: simple piece of legislation. I'm ready to go on it. 512 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 7: I think it's the right thing for us to do. 513 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 3: Senator, I want to ask you, from your perch on 514 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 3: the Armed Services Committee about what else we heard from 515 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 3: Donald Trump today. He had an hour and fifteen minute 516 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 3: long call with Vladimir Putin. At the end of the call, 517 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 3: he wrote about it and said that peace is not 518 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 3: imminent in Ukraine. He did say, however, that Putin will 519 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: have to respond to the recent attack on the airfields 520 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 3: that Ukraine conducted over the weekend using this wild scheme 521 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,959 Speaker 3: with drones that had been smuggled into the country. What 522 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 3: do you make of this assessment and what is Ukraine 523 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 3: in for in the days ahead? 524 00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 6: Right? 525 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 7: Look, Vladimir Putin has been playing Donald Trump, and pretty 526 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 7: much everybody in the world can see that. Just me 527 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 7: seeing it, not just people in the United States see it. 528 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 7: Leaders around the world see it. And it looks like 529 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 7: Donald Trump is beginning to figure that out and starting 530 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 7: to push back against Putin. We owe it to Ukraine 531 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 7: to do everything we can to support them in their fight. 532 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 7: They are on the front lines fighting for democracy, and 533 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 7: they are in the front lines against an expansionist Russia. 534 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 7: Understand this. If Ukraine falls and Vladimir Putin gets either 535 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 7: a big chunk of it or all of it. He's 536 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 7: not stopping there. He's coming for more and more and more, 537 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 7: because that's who Vladimir Putin is. It is important right 538 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 7: now to help Ukraine push back. They are on the 539 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 7: front lines fighting the war for democracy on behalf of 540 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,719 Speaker 7: all of Europe, on behalf of the United States, on 541 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 7: behalf of freedom loving countries everywhere in the world, and 542 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 7: we should give them all the support we can. 543 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 2: All right, Senator, we appreciate you joining us on Bloomberg 544 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 2: TV and radio. The Democratic Senator from Massachusetts, also ranking 545 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 2: member of the Senate Banking Committee, Elizabeth Warren. 546 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 547 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 548 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You 549 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 550 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 551 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: We turn to our political panel today. Genie Shanzano is 552 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 2: with us Bloomberg Politics contributor, Senior Democracy Fellow at the 553 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 2: Center for the Study of the Presidency in Congress, and 554 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 2: Democratic analyst, alongside Republican strategist Chape and Fay, founder of 555 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 2: Lighthouse Public Affairs Chapin as we hear Senator Warren say, 556 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 2: I agree with Trump. Let's do this, get rid of 557 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 2: the debt cealing right now. Is this the potential off 558 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 2: ramp for if the Republicans cannot get through this partisan 559 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 2: reconciliation bill with a debt sealing hike attached in time? 560 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 8: Well, what wild times we're living in? Right, Cats and 561 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 8: dogs are living together. Elizabeth Woarne and Donald Trump are 562 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 8: almost praising each other publicly in agreement. But yes, answer 563 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 8: your question, I do think this is a way maybe 564 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 8: to greece the skids there grees the wheels, so to speak, 565 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 8: and get a deal done. By the way, this is 566 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 8: how throughout history, our history of American history. This is 567 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 8: how big deals get done, and how major programs like 568 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 8: some of the programs the Big Beautiful Bill are arguing 569 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 8: over right now get done right compromise an agreement among 570 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 8: people on the left and the right. So I think 571 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 8: this is good news. I mean, I have always seen 572 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 8: I think MAGA sees Donald Trump as a deal maker 573 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 8: on behalf of the American people, and they have faith 574 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 8: in him to do that. It will be wild to 575 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 8: see them support Elizabeth war in the same endeavor. 576 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 3: But we'll see that was a wild moment. We have 577 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 3: found an acknowledge what just happened here the President's posting 578 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 3: about Elizabeth Warren while she's live on the air with 579 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 3: this genie? Is that how this ends with the debt limit? 580 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 9: Your biggest fan, Joe and Kayley, So I love it 581 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 9: the you. 582 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 3: Can't help but to watch he who can help? 583 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 9: But watch you guys. The reality is is that I 584 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 9: love his post too, which is strange because it seems 585 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 9: to me he's calling for some bipartisan movement forward. He 586 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 9: ends the post by saying, let's get together Republicans and 587 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 9: Democrats and do this. I'm not sure if that is 588 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 9: just limited to the debt ceiling, which absolutely needs to 589 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 9: be scrapped, but it should also pertain to this issue 590 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 9: of the Reconciliation bill overall. So I don't know if 591 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 9: it's a bad sign for the President that the Republicans 592 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 9: aren't moving on the bills so he's reaching across the aisle, 593 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 9: or a good sign that he's just found religion that 594 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 9: he needs to work across the aisle. But I'm in 595 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 9: favor of you two bringing the parties together like this. 596 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 8: I love this. 597 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 6: Done. 598 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 2: Balance of power. That's what we aim to do here 599 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 2: cheap and finally, we just have a minute left. But 600 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 2: President Trump and Republicans overall have had a lot of 601 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 2: words about the CBO in recent days that they've shared, 602 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: specifically poo pooing essentially their estimates on the tax bill. 603 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 2: But now the CBO says tariffs could reduce the deficit 604 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: by two point eight trillion dollars over the next ten years. 605 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: Is that argument now nullified? 606 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 8: I don't think so. I mean this is sort of 607 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 8: some of the sausage being made that always spills out 608 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 8: into the public. And if the CBO says something you like, 609 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 8: you support it, you use it as a proof point. 610 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,479 Speaker 8: And when the CBO goes the other way, you can 611 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 8: do what the Republicans are doing recently. But it is 612 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 8: helpful to have the CBO give some numbers that can 613 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 8: help an argument and push things forward. 614 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 3: For sure, GINI, what's your thought on this when it 615 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 3: comes to the CBO. I think I know your answer, 616 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 3: But I think Republicans are suggesting that the broken clock 617 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 3: is right once a day when it comes to CBO's 618 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 3: take on tariffs. But CBO is broke when it comes 619 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 3: to scoring the tax cut bill because it doesn't use 620 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 3: dynamic scoring. Am I warm on this? 621 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 9: You are hot, Joe, Let's say you're hot. The reality 622 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 9: is is that the CBO. I think is a good 623 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 9: day for the CBO because they give it and they 624 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 9: take it away. You know, as you guys have been 625 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 9: talking about on the tariffs, they are you know, supporting 626 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 9: what the President is doing. I mean not partisan wise, 627 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 9: but in terms of the impact on the deficit. And 628 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 9: yet when it comes to the issue of the reconciliation bill, 629 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 9: they are underscoring the fact that this is going to 630 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 9: increase the deficit an awful lot. So I think it's 631 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 9: a good day for the CBO because it shows that 632 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 9: they are indeed bipartisan or nonpartisan is probably a better term. 633 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 9: But the reality is is that the President and the 634 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 9: Republicans are going to have to really get their head 635 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 9: around what Elon Musk, what so many people have been 636 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 9: talking about. You simply have a math issue when it 637 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 9: comes to the reconciliation bill. You cannot add two point 638 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 9: five trillion plus two the deficit and call yourself economically 639 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 9: or fiscally responsible. I know russ Vote and others are 640 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 9: out there saying about this static scoring and all of this. 641 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 9: The reality is the CBO is running the numbers right, 642 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 9: Elon Musk and others know how to run the numbers. 643 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 9: This doesn't add up. So you either have to cut 644 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 9: spending or you have to increase taxes. It's pretty basic. 645 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 3: You just heard that from Bill Haggerty. Broken clock is 646 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 3: right twice at that. 647 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 2: I do want to follow up on your point on 648 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 2: Elon Musk, though, Genie, to what extent is he actually 649 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 2: credible in his contentions that the budget deficit is a 650 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 2: problem in Congress is making the wrong choices here, knowing 651 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 2: that a his companies benefit from massive government contracts and 652 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 2: b is the Speaker of the House was quick to 653 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: point out he also wanted those EV credits that this 654 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 2: bill rolls back to stick around. So maybe there's a 655 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 2: bit of a personal issue here. 656 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, certainly as it pertains to the NASA administrator. 657 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 9: As you mentioned to the ed Many to Starlink, he 658 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 9: apparently wanted to re maintain his special status as a 659 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 9: special government employee. All of that is true, but the 660 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 9: reality is Elon Musk knows how to do this math, 661 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 9: and anybody who looks at this objectively, there is no 662 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 9: way that you can make the claim that it doesn't 663 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 9: add an enormous amount to the deficit. And we will 664 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 9: be strapping our children and grandchildren with a government and 665 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 9: a really a country that is economically and fiscally in 666 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 9: a horrible position, not just as a result of the 667 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 9: Republicans Democrats as well. We all own this and we 668 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 9: have to get out of it. So he's right on 669 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 9: the math here, regardless of his reasons for being frustrated. 670 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 3: How are you looking at this Elon Musk thing? Chapin 671 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 3: obviously a maga darling until I don't know, a few 672 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 3: hours ago this post hit. He hasn't always seen eye 673 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 3: to eye with the president. But are you looking at 674 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 3: this as a disgruntled government contractor or a guy who 675 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 3: saw too much when he was Washington? 676 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 8: No, I think Elon Musk is an honest broker here, 677 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 8: and he's giving his input right and and it's important input. 678 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 8: While I don't know the level of influence he'll he'll 679 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 8: retain after leaving, you know, the President's side, after seeing 680 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 8: him at the President's side almost on a daily basis. 681 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 8: But there's no question that he has input. And and 682 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 8: like Genie and you all said, he knows the math, 683 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 8: he knows the numbers, and he's he's trying to shape 684 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 8: the legislation just like the president and and every other 685 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 8: special interest I mean would pull up special interests in 686 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 8: the negative way. But that's what happens right now when 687 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 8: when you're in this precarious situation, uh, while the you know, 688 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 8: while they're reconciling the two bills and trying to get 689 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 8: this passed without you know, destroying the economy and the budget. 690 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 8: And and Elon Musk has always been an honest broker 691 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 8: in my mind, on the on the on the numbers, 692 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 8: on the map. So that's what he's doing. I don't 693 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 8: see him as a disgruntled employee. I think he's doing 694 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,919 Speaker 8: his part to continue doing you know, his part. 695 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 2: Chapin, you and frankly Genie are both joining us from 696 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 2: New York. So I want to ask you about the 697 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 2: contention the Majority leader has made that there's going to 698 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 2: have to be made adjustments made to the salt cap 699 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 2: deal that was struck in the House, lifting it from 700 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 2: ten thousand to forty thousand dollars cheap and if that 701 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 2: adjustment is material, do you see any way in which 702 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 2: those Salt Caucus Republicans are going to be able to 703 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 2: vote for this package when it returns to the other chamber. 704 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 8: You know, it's going to be interesting to see they 705 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 8: have sort of boxed themselves into a corner, so, you know, 706 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 8: fighting for this some of them and some of them 707 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 8: sort of are going to go along. So it's be 708 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 8: interesting to see what the final outcome is. But this 709 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 8: is a huge deal in New York and in their 710 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 8: districts in some of these Republican members districts in particular 711 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 8: in the suburbs, like Congressman Lawler right, sort of the 712 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 8: northern suburbs of New York City, and this is a 713 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 8: critical issue to them and their re election in some cases. 714 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 8: So I think you're going to see some of them 715 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 8: fighting for it really hard, and I think some of 716 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 8: them are going to, you know, go along quietly and 717 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 8: hope for the best. 718 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,040 Speaker 3: Great conversation with our panel, That's Cheap and things. A 719 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 3: Republican strategist Lighthouse Public Affairs and Genie Shanzo, Bloomberg Politics contributor. 720 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 3: Great to see both of you. Thanks for listening to 721 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 3: The Balance of Power Podcast. Make sure to subscribe if 722 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 3: you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get 723 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 3: your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday 724 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 3: from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com