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Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Down here in the South,

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Speaker 1: we have some interesting names that we call our grandparents.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's the case all over the country, but for

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Speaker 1: me spending my entire life down here, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the norm. I call my grandfather Papa. I love that

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Speaker 1: man more than anything. Had two papas, But the one

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about right now was what's referred to as

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Speaker 1: a finishing contractor or a finishing carpenter, and he ran

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Speaker 1: a crew guys. It would actually frame houses. He was

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Speaker 1: not a big man, but he had gigantic hands, and

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Speaker 1: he had farms that I remember as a small child

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Speaker 1: that looked like Popeye. And the reason I bring this

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Speaker 1: up is that he always carried a hammer, and he

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Speaker 1: had a wide variety of hammer. I think probably the

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Speaker 1: one that everybody knows about is a claw hammer. That

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Speaker 1: means that you've got the blunted side where you're driving nails,

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Speaker 1: and you've got the other side that's pulling him out. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about a case that involves a hammer,

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Speaker 1: and it's a hammer that my grandfather probably never would

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Speaker 1: have been seen with. It's actually a pink claw hammer.

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Speaker 1: But we're going to talk about its involvement in the

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Speaker 1: alleged homicide of an elderly man of seventy six years

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Speaker 1: of age. His name was Leon Dwayne Hignite. I'm Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body Packs My buddy Dave

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Speaker 1: mac He's a reporter for Crime Online. He's joining me

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Speaker 1: today to help me make sense out of this case

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Speaker 1: and break down the forensics. And Dave, there are just

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Speaker 1: certain cases out there that you think, when you've heard

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Speaker 1: the worst that humanity has to offer, you come across

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Speaker 1: a case like this and you think, Wow, can't it

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Speaker 1: go any deeper and any darker? And I think this

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Speaker 1: is pretty dark. This is one of those situations where

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Speaker 1: you've got an elderly couple. Carol Higne sixty nine at

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Speaker 1: the time that this took place, husband Leon is seventy

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Speaker 1: six at the time. You know, when you see an

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Speaker 1: old couple out and about and you just think how

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Speaker 1: sweet it is to have a partnership like that that

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Speaker 1: lasts a long time. You don't think about what could

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Speaker 1: possibly be going on in the relationship beyond what you see,

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Speaker 1: just a nice little couple together. They're sunset years, but

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Speaker 1: the sunset years for Carol and Leon. Leon, in particular,

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Speaker 1: we're not what you and I would wish on anybody. Listen,

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Speaker 1: when I see an older couple together. I'm a romantic

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Speaker 1: at heart. I have hope for love, and this case,

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Speaker 1: it's actually chilling to the bone now when I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about that elderly couple, and I'm wondering if that's what

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Speaker 1: people think of my wife and I or you and

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Speaker 1: your wife, you know, when we're out, are we that?

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Speaker 1: Are we that elderly couple? Now? Oh my goodness, but

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Speaker 1: I think we are because I think somebody actually referred

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Speaker 1: to my wife and I were at Dollar General. I

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Speaker 1: think I heard somebody say, isn't that a cute old couple?

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Speaker 1: And I thought, hey, yeah, it does. This is a

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Speaker 1: dose of reality. But hey, we've made it to this point,

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Speaker 1: so I'm thankful for that. I wonder if Leon felt

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Speaker 1: that way. I've made it to this point. I'm good. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's what actually happened. Nine one one was called on

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Speaker 1: September twenty fifth, and they were called because there was

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Speaker 1: a senior citizen suffering distress. He was not in good

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Speaker 1: health and the wife called saying I need help. She

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Speaker 1: indicated he had gone to the bathroom and had fallen

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Speaker 1: couldn't get up. She checked on him and the door

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Speaker 1: was locked so she couldn't get in to help him.

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Speaker 1: Leon after about fifteen minutes, was able to get out

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Speaker 1: of the bathroom and get out enough to crawl towards

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Speaker 1: the bedroom. This is where his loving wife helped him

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Speaker 1: to the bedroom. Now she noticed that there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of blood on the floor of the bathroom Joe

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Speaker 1: because he had hit his head and apparently more than

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Speaker 1: once in trying to get up, maybe slipping in the blood,

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Speaker 1: and was having trouble. So Carol helps him to the

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Speaker 1: bedroom where he says, I have a bad back. Let

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Speaker 1: me lay on the floor, and so he does. That's

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Speaker 1: on the twenty fifth September. He laid there for a

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Speaker 1: couple of days. Carol says she thought he was going

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Speaker 1: to get better because he had fallen before and got up.

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Speaker 1: It just took him a little time to recover. But

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Speaker 1: she called their family doctor and he says, well, no,

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Speaker 1: you need to call nine one one. He needs help.

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Speaker 1: He's been on the ground too long. And that's when

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Speaker 1: paramedics showed up and they took one look around the

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Speaker 1: place and they said, hey, Joe, this is not a

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Speaker 1: loving elderly couple where the man has fallen and can't

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Speaker 1: get up. There's more to this than meets the eye.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, one of the paramedics noticed

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Speaker 1: blood on the ceiling and the wall. Is there a

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Speaker 1: way you could hit your head on the sink in

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Speaker 1: the bathroom and get blood on the ceiling and the wall, Joe,

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Speaker 1: that you can think of. You will encounter circumstance where

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Speaker 1: people say and it generally happens in cases, particularly involving

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Speaker 1: small children, where there's ongoing child abuse. This is clearly

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Speaker 1: to me a case of what could be defined as

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Speaker 1: or abuse. Remember Leon, not only did he not get

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Speaker 1: around well, he was blind and he couldn't hear real well,

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Speaker 1: so you don't know what his level of ability to

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Speaker 1: communicate was. Can you imagine that you've suffered these injuries

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Speaker 1: and then it's almost like you're locked inside your head

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Speaker 1: and the people or person that you're totally dependent upon

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Speaker 1: as your caregiver, is not paying attention to you. They're

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Speaker 1: not rendering aid. You know that you're in a desperate circumstance.

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Speaker 1: But there's darkness, there's an absence of sound, Perhaps the

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Speaker 1: floor is cold, and you know nothing is changing. You

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Speaker 1: don't know if anything will change until the end eventually comes.

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Speaker 1: But when we think about head injuries in particular, for

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Speaker 1: every point of contact relative to a head injury, there

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Speaker 1: will be a singular point of impact. That's important to

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Speaker 1: remember in this case because as a result of a

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Speaker 1: later examination that's done of Leon, it was determined that

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Speaker 1: this man had sustained at least thirty count them, thirty

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Speaker 1: blunt force impacts all about his head, over and over

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Speaker 1: and over again. And the fact that that had occurred

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Speaker 1: and you have that much head trauma, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: take the measure of what's going on internally with his brain,

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Speaker 1: but I can tell you this, the brain, probably at

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Speaker 1: the initial onset, was beginning to swell, and if there's

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Speaker 1: nowhere for that brain to receive any kind of relief,

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Speaker 1: it becomes more and more progressively congested. You enter into

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Speaker 1: an altered mental state. And this is not even counting

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Speaker 1: the pain that would have been involved as you linger

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Speaker 1: there and probably eventually going into a comma. We have

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Speaker 1: brought this about with this case with Carol and Leon Hignite,

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Speaker 1: and have brought it to situation where Leon is on

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Speaker 1: the floor and paramedics have been called. Basically, I was

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Speaker 1: giving you the story from Carol Hignite, what she told

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Speaker 1: their primary care physician and later what she told paramedics.

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Speaker 1: The actual truth of the matter was somewhat different, because,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, there's not a case where a person

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Speaker 1: could end up with over thirty lacerations about their head

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Speaker 1: by falling in the bathroom and hitting a sink. For

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Speaker 1: three days, leon Hignite laid on the bedroom floor. When

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Speaker 1: nine one one was called and paramedics arrive, they find

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Speaker 1: leon Hignite unresponsive, dehydrated, lacerations to his head and lying

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Speaker 1: in his own filth and waste excrement. They saw blood

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Speaker 1: on the walls and ceiling as well as on the

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Speaker 1: bedroom floor around his head. And when you actually see

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Speaker 1: some of the photos, Joe, you can see that leon

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Speaker 1: Hignite actually wedged himself underneath a bed frame in the bedroom.

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Speaker 1: And I am only going to assume that he did

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Speaker 1: that to try to protect himself, that he's doing anything

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Speaker 1: ken to try to find some type of comfort, because

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Speaker 1: this did not happen on accident. It couldn't have, right, No,

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Speaker 1: it can't, because for every point of impact that you

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Speaker 1: have there will be evidence of that. And so back

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Speaker 1: to this idea of elder abuse. Many people that are

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Speaker 1: charged in cases of elder abuse and certainly child abuse

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Speaker 1: will say, well, my child fell down the staircase, and

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Speaker 1: this is how they wound up with these injuries. You're

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Speaker 1: looking at them. The logical part of your brain wants

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Speaker 1: to scream out, well how many times did they fall

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Speaker 1: down the staircase? Because now you've got bruises all over

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Speaker 1: the body. They're specific pattern injuries that come along with this.

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Speaker 1: You had mentioned the idea of lacerations, and there are

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Speaker 1: patterns that you can tie back to this and the

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Speaker 1: fact that he had gone in I think probably in

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Speaker 1: those early moments into a posture of protection. I use

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Speaker 1: this term a lot, maybe I overuse it, but it's

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Speaker 1: almost a primal thing. You're trying to survive, and even

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Speaker 1: as your compromise from a century standpoint, you can make

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Speaker 1: it from the bathroom to the bedroom. You would imagine

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Speaker 1: that that would be a normal course. In my estimation,

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Speaker 1: given how extensive these injuries were on his head, I

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Speaker 1: would imagine that there was probably a blood trail and

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Speaker 1: the dynamics of the blood that you would see in

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Speaker 1: the bathroom would certainly be different than those areas of

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Speaker 1: blood that are essentially pooled, because that's going to tell

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Speaker 1: the tale in the case of Leon. If you're looking

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Speaker 1: for more true crime, check out The Piked and Massacre

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Speaker 1: new details into what was uncovered at the gruesome crime

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Speaker 1: scenes in Pike County. Accused murderer George Wagner faces a

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Speaker 1: judge and jury. No Wagner family DNA was found at

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Speaker 1: a crime scene. Will he face the death penalty or

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Speaker 1: will he luck free? Mark my words, this case is

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Speaker 1: about to blow wide open. Been to the entire season

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Speaker 1: of The Piked and Masker season four on the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Two words

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Speaker 1: come to mind. Helpless and hopeless. I can't even begin

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Speaker 1: to fathom what it would be like to be abandoned

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Speaker 1: and the place that you would consider hopefully your safe harbor,

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Speaker 1: your haven, that home that you've lived in, perhaps for years.

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Speaker 1: There's no point of retreat. There's no place that you

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Speaker 1: can go to where you're going to feel comfort, that

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Speaker 1: you're going to get better. And I think that that's

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Speaker 1: probably the position that Leon Hicknoite found himself in. I've

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Speaker 1: never been to a scene like this. I've been to

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Speaker 1: a number of scenes where extreme things have happened to people,

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Speaker 1: but I've never been to one like this where authorities

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Speaker 1: are called. After the man has been laying for three

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Speaker 1: days that nine when one people walk in and they

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Speaker 1: see what's going on, they recognize it is so bad

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Speaker 1: that they begin taking action. They, being authorities, begin taking

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Speaker 1: action immediately. They get Leon out of the situation, get

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Speaker 1: him to the hospital, and they start doing what they

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Speaker 1: can to help him. He is seventy six years old,

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Speaker 1: he's blind, he's got some hearing is She's already has

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Speaker 1: a number of health issues. When all of this is

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Speaker 1: looked at by a third party, they go, this is

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Speaker 1: not the way she's claiming. This man did not slip

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Speaker 1: and fall in the bathroom on accident. He's not been

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Speaker 1: laying there for three days. While she waits to help him,

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Speaker 1: police get involved. They get a search warrant to come

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Speaker 1: and look at the house. Police arrive to serve the

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Speaker 1: search warrant, and as they go in, they smell smoke

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Speaker 1: and find that the house has been set on fire

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Speaker 1: in the basement. So already we have Carol Hignite, the wife.

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Speaker 1: She's been charged now with assault. She's been charged with

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Speaker 1: elder abuse now Arson, Yeah, and he's just hanging on

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Speaker 1: by a thread. And this is roughly three days post

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Speaker 1: accident quote unquote, I'm using air quotes here where this

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Speaker 1: head strike has taken place. When the doctors begin to

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Speaker 1: assess they've got him, I'm sure on NEUROICU, which means

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Speaker 1: that they're going to have to do the calculus here

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Speaker 1: to try to determine what they're going to do to

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Speaker 1: save him, because all the while I'd mentioned just a

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Speaker 1: moment ago, how when you sustain this kind of trauma

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Speaker 1: to your head, your brain does in fact begin to swell.

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Speaker 1: You don't know if there's perhaps underlying fractures, but one

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Speaker 1: of the things they have to do is to relive

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Speaker 1: that pressure, and it's a surgical intervention most of the time,

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Speaker 1: where they'll go in and they will drill what's referred

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Speaker 1: to as a burrhole in the skull itself to relieve

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Speaker 1: this pressure. They'll also insert a pressure monitor into the

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Speaker 1: skull that keeps track of the indwelling pressure. There's a

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Speaker 1: range of pressure that is acceptable in the human brain

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Speaker 1: where if you begin to get up past that normal level.

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Speaker 1: It's curtains for you. So they're trying to assess all

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Speaker 1: of this day. Being the team at the hospital, there

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Speaker 1: are three days behind the curve. I'm not saying it

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Speaker 1: would have been a survivable event if they'd got to

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Speaker 1: him immediately, but I can tell you his chances may

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Speaker 1: have been a little bit better. He's there on the

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Speaker 1: floor for three days and he is dehydrated, he's emaciated,

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Speaker 1: he's had no food or water. How long can anybody

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Speaker 1: much less a seventy six year old man with underlying

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Speaker 1: medical issues lay on the floor without dying, no food,

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Speaker 1: no water, and he's bleeding. This is not something that

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Speaker 1: you're going to recover from just by resting on this

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Speaker 1: hard surface floor. This is something that requires medical intervention,

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Speaker 1: probably surgical intervention, in order to correct this issue, just

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Speaker 1: to give him immediate relief. So you couple that with

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Speaker 1: this idea of dehydration. There's one element to this case

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Speaker 1: that's kind of fascinating. Carol had claimed that while she

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Speaker 1: had chosen to let him rest on the floor, that

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Speaker 1: she had made efforts in order to hydrate. As a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, she stated that she had gotten a

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Speaker 1: cup and was giving him ice chips. If you've ever

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Speaker 1: been in the hospital, they might not let you drink water,

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Speaker 1: but they will give you ice chips in order to

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Speaker 1: kind of hydrate your mouth stem the dry mouth that

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Speaker 1: you get while you're in there, and that this was

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Speaker 1: her effort apparently at hydration. Dehydration is absolutely lethal. Probably

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Speaker 1: goes without saying. We can't go very long without taking

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Speaker 1: water on in our body because all of ourselves are

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Speaker 1: depended upon it. And so it's not just that he

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Speaker 1: struck his head, Dave, It's not just that he was

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Speaker 1: allowed to lay on the floor. It's the idea of

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Speaker 1: deprivation of basic needs. You see what I'm saying. You're

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Speaker 1: depriving this individual that is literally at your mercy. Carol

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Speaker 1: Hignite claimed that she checked on her husband periodically, but

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Speaker 1: didn't think his injuries worth severe enough to call an ambulance. So, Joe,

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Speaker 1: let me ask you. According to he care providers who

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Speaker 1: took care of Leon Hignite when he arrived at the hospital,

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Speaker 1: he sustained an extensive brain injury. I collapsed a lung,

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Speaker 1: broken ribs, broken leg, a fractured orbital socket, and bed sores.

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Speaker 1: Are these injuries typical of a fall. No, they're not.

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Speaker 1: Let's just go to the fractures that you're referring to.

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Speaker 1: When you see someone with fractured ribs and they're in

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Speaker 1: a diminished position like this. Now, you can have fractured

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Speaker 1: ribs as a result of a fall, and the elderly

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Speaker 1: do sustain those. How many times does anybody in the

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Speaker 1: audience reflect back, think, well, I had my aunt or

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Speaker 1: my grandmother that broke their hip. That does happen. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it will happen spontaneously, but many times if the elderly

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Speaker 1: or compromise physically, that will fall and strike that area

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Speaker 1: and it will fracture. The bones become brutal as we

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Speaker 1: get older. But how many fractures were there? And also

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Speaker 1: how recent are the fractures? How recent are the broken bones?

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Speaker 1: And from a forensic stand point, if you're trying to

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Speaker 1: establish a timeline, one of the things that you look for,

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Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to bony fractures is has the

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Speaker 1: healing process begun at this point in time? Is there

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Speaker 1: any indication that the bones have begun to kind of

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Speaker 1: naturally mend on themselves. And you'll get these odd appearing

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Speaker 1: fracture lines where you'll see the bonus communicating where it's

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Speaker 1: beginning to mend itself, and these stand out you can't

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Speaker 1: miss it when you're doing an internal examination. It would

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Speaker 1: also be evident certainly in X rays as well. So

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Speaker 1: absent that from a forensic standpoint, you have to take

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Speaker 1: what you're being told by the investigators and try to

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Speaker 1: marry up these injuries and try to appreciate to what

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Speaker 1: extent these things have healed. Are they in the distant

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Speaker 1: past or they all recent? And also you think about,

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Speaker 1: well do any of them communicate with one another? And

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Speaker 1: what I mean by that, do you have overlapping contusions?

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Speaker 1: Certainly fractured areas where you might have a bone that's

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Speaker 1: not just fractured once, but maybe twice. Two things that

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Speaker 1: end out that you had mentioned, how do you get

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Speaker 1: a leg fracture? Because that requires a tremendous amount of

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Speaker 1: pressure in order to generate that. Sometimes you can see

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Speaker 1: leg fractures with individuals that will be stomped on. Perhaps

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Speaker 1: if you have a leg fracture, that means that there

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Speaker 1: ought to be some kind of related contusion overlying the

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Speaker 1: area of fracture. For anybody's ever fractured bone in their body,

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Speaker 1: you can actually see that kind of focal strike there.

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Speaker 1: But this other thing that you mentioned, Dave, this orbital

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Speaker 1: fracture that he sustained. Does anyone actually realize how rare

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Speaker 1: these are. We're talking about an eye socket, that's fracture

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Speaker 1: that requires a direct strike. Generally you see orbital fractures

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Speaker 1: many times in fatal car accidents. That's how rare these

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Speaker 1: kinds of things are. Maybe someone that takes a line

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Speaker 1: drive baseball to the face, that's how much force is required.

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Speaker 1: In this case, I think that there's far too much

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Speaker 1: to just ignore in total. When you begin to think

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Speaker 1: about Leon and the trauma that he sustained. I'm reflecting

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Speaker 1: back on my career. I've worked plane crashes where victims

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Speaker 1: have had fewer injuries than this. Fatal injuries they had,

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Speaker 1: but fewer injuries than this. I would associate this with

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Speaker 1: maybe a car accident as well, any kind of motor

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Speaker 1: vehicle accident where you have extreme force and trauma that's

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Speaker 1: applied to an individual. I'm amazed that this man survived

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Speaker 1: at all. You mentioned at the very beginning, the pink hammer,

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Speaker 1: and I'm looking at these in particular, the fractured orbital socket,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, a very difficult thing. But looking at

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Speaker 1: the injuries, we know we have the pink hammer, and

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Speaker 1: we know that there was blood on the hammer. We

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Speaker 1: know there's blood on the ceiling and on the walls.

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Speaker 1: We've got blunt force trauma to the head, over thirty

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Speaker 1: lacerations just dealing with the head. Does it sound like

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Speaker 1: rather than using the hammer to crush up blocks of

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Speaker 1: ice to lovingly feed her husband while he lay there

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Speaker 1: in his own excrement and blood and feeding him ice chips,

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Speaker 1: or was that hammer used for something else? Just about

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Speaker 1: out of every instrument that we examine at the Morgue

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Speaker 1: relative to blunt force trauma, I think probably hammer stands

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Speaker 1: out the most based upon the unique mark that it

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Speaker 1: leaves on the body. If everybody at home right now

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Speaker 1: that's listening to me or in your car, think about

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Speaker 1: what a quarter looks like and you're looking down on

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Speaker 1: the quarter. The dimensions of quarter very closely resemble what

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Speaker 1: the striking surface of a hammer would look like. And

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00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,959
Speaker 1: remember the head and the skull. Many people don't think

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00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: about their or their skull many times, but you have

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Speaker 1: uneven surfaces. It's a flat bone, but it's curved when

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Speaker 1: a hammer come down and it strikes to scalp initially

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Speaker 1: because that's where it's going to first make contact. There's

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00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,679
Speaker 1: this friction event that occurs, and you'll get an overlying

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00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 1: braided area many times, and also if the surface of

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00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 1: that contact the impact point of the hammer, some of

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00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 1: them will be dimpled. You'll see that transferred onto there.

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Speaker 1: But that force is transferring into that area and it

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Speaker 1: leads to tearing. Remember they're calling these lacerations, and lacerations

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Speaker 1: are not associated with sharp force injuries. Contrary to what

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Speaker 1: people say. Lacerations are associated with blunt force trauma. So

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Speaker 1: you've got tearing of the skin, but yet it will

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Speaker 1: leave a very specific mark that's going to look a

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Speaker 1: lot like a quarter. Also, you get this kind of

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Speaker 1: what I refer to as a beaver teeth mark, which

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Speaker 1: if someone spins the hammer around where you're attacking with

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Speaker 1: a claw, you'll get this penetrating event where you have

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00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 1: it looks like two large beaver teeth had gone into

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Speaker 1: the tissue side by side, and that's the claw. You

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Speaker 1: don't know if that's been lipped around, because lots of

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00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: times the hammer itself, the handle will get just saturated

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Speaker 1: with blood. Blood's very slick if you're holding it as

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00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 1: you're striking over And we know that there were multiple

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Speaker 1: strikes because investigators at the scene talked about how there

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Speaker 1: appears to be cast off, a copious amount of cast

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Speaker 1: off in this bathroom, on the walls and the ceilings,

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Speaker 1: and that blood actually matched Leon. The one problem here

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Speaker 1: with this case, though, forensically, is that they only found

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Speaker 1: blood on the underside of the head of the hammer

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Speaker 1: and also onto the leading edge of the handle, and

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Speaker 1: that blood could not be specifically tied back to Leon,

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Speaker 1: nor could it be tied back to his wife Carol.

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Speaker 1: That might be an indication that at some point in

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Speaker 1: time that weapon went through some kind of cleansing, perhaps

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Speaker 1: because you can imagine the thing would have been super saturated.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about at least thirty strikes to the head,

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Speaker 1: not to mention these other areas of the body. So

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00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: that's kind of telltale here. And one of the things

380
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Speaker 1: that's particularly telling when you take back the scalp at

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Speaker 1: autopsy and you begin to take a look at the

382
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: external table of the skull. Remember those quarter shaped injuries

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Speaker 1: that I've talked about on the skin, boy, or they

384
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: appreciated on the surface of the skull. They look like

385
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: plugs essentially, where that hammer strike has taken place, that

386
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Speaker 1: energy transfer down onto that bone, and the bone becomes

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Speaker 1: detached and suddenly portions of it might fragment and go

388
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Speaker 1: into the brain, or the plug itself is pressuring the

389
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: brain as well. So he's got all of this to

390
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Speaker 1: contend with Physiologically, I stand by my statement. The fact

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Speaker 1: that he survived as long as he did is absolutely

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Speaker 1: a miracle. Talking about the hammer and the lack of

393
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Speaker 1: blood from Leon the victim here, would you not have

394
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Speaker 1: two different types If the hammer is the weapon that

395
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: causes the head trauma, would there not be blood spatter

396
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: from impact that would be at head level as well

397
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Speaker 1: as cast off from raising the hammer back and blood

398
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: coming off the hammer onto the ceiling or the wall.

399
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Speaker 1: That's a good point one of the things that happens.

400
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: We teach our students at Jacksonville State this as well.

401
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: When you're thinking about cast off, it's almost like if

402
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 1: you took a bucket of red paint and dipped a

403
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: paint brush in it, withdrew it, and initially when you

404
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: withdraw it, what's going to happen? Well, that paint is

405
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: going to drip down kind of passively off of it,

406
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: but as you draw it up over your shoulder. If

407
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: you're trying to imitate this idea of casting off, depend

408
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: upon the force that you're using in drawing it back.

409
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: You can cast blood forward and then kind of arching,

410
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,360
Speaker 1: and then as you're coming down you're going to generate

411
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: more force. And it happens many times where these patterns

412
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: have cast off overlap one another. Just imagine in your

413
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: mind that you've got this big X that's happening going

414
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: up with an upward stroke and then down with a

415
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: down stroke, and you'll get these kind of communicating events.

416
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Speaker 1: The fact that he was struck this many times allegedly

417
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: with this hammer that they've talked about would give us

418
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: an indication because they've made no bones about it here, Dave.

419
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: They talk about the volume or the amount of blood

420
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: cast off that they're seeing at the scene. So you

421
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: can get an idea that this would have been a

422
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: rather dynamic event. Now to your other point, when you

423
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: are striking down. If you take a hammer and you

424
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: were to drive it into some like a tomato for instance,

425
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: well when at that point of impact, what's going to

426
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: happen with all of the fluid that's contained in that tomato. Well,

427
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: it's going to kind of blast out, isn't it. Now.

428
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: It's not going to be high velocity, but it will

429
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: at least be medium velocity. We talk about velocities of blood.

430
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: We talk about a low, medium, and high. High is

431
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: generally generated from a firearm. But when you have medium

432
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: velocity that's easily associated with things like hammers, baseball bats, crowbars,

433
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 1: motor vehicle accidents, and you're thinking about a firearm, you're

434
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: thinking about maybe subsonic or supersonic round this passing through

435
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 1: a body that generates that kind of blast effect. It's

436
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: not quite to that level, and the blood droplets themselves,

437
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: the deposition of blood will be larger, they'll be easier

438
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 1: to appreciate, whereas if you have high velocity, it'll be

439
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: almost histamine like, it'll be very fine spray that you'll see.

440
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: With that, they would have been able to appreciate that.

441
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: And he could have been in multiple positions, because if

442
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: you're talking about this number of strikes and impacts, he's

443
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: not going to just simply sit there statically, at least

444
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: in the beginning. He's going to try to fend this off.

445
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 1: So you might have these impact patterns that are all

446
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: over the place, and they're going to settle in various locations,

447
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: maybe underneath the sink, maybe on the side of the toilet,

448
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: on the wall under the sink. You just never know

449
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: because this is such a dynamic event. One other thing

450
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to get clarity on is that you talked

451
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 1: about the hammer not having blood. One would expect. But

452
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: obviously between the time of the incident on the twenty

453
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: fifth and the I'm that Carol Hignite called nine one

454
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: one was three days. That's not in debate. During that

455
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: three day period of time, one could clean up a

456
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: lot of things. Now, those of us who are crime watchers,

457
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: watching crime stories and things like that, we hear of

458
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: luminol that it doesn't matter how much you clean up,

459
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 1: that luminol can be sprayed and it just shows up

460
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: where the blood was. Is that true or is that

461
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: TV stuff? Joe? It's accurate, it truly is. I know

462
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: of cases that have been ten, twelve, even fifteen years

463
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: down range from the actual event. They were able to

464
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: go back. On one case in particular, in the early days,

465
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: the use of luminol comes to mind. A friend of

466
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: mine where a fellow had killed his wife in a

467
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: basement and redund the basement and even carpeted the floor,

468
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: and the cops have been watching the house for some time.

469
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: They were aware that she was missing. A young couple

470
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: bought the house and they found luminol under the carpet

471
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: its surface after all those years, and as it turns out,

472
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: the wife was actually buried out in the rose garden

473
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: and the back of the house. So yeah, it's quite

474
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: possible to go back over a period of time, and

475
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: certainly in this case, it's such a short period of time,

476
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: you're not going to have too much degrading of that

477
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: sample anyway, so yeah, you'd be able to pick up

478
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: on it. So Carol Hignet was initially charged with assault.

479
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: She was charged with abuse of the elderly and arson,

480
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: and then it was upgraded because Leon did die nine

481
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: days after the initial attack. The day was October the fourth.

482
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: He passed away, and that's when the charges against Carol

483
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: were upgraded to murder. Yeah, you're absolutely right, and she

484
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: went to trial on this. They brought in forensic experts,

485
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: they had all of the witnesses and back to the fire,

486
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: they had a retired fire investigator that worked for the

487
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: county there. He testified that the fire that was set

488
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: was set by an individual with a handheld torch perhaps

489
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: or fire source like a lighter, that it wasn't as

490
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: a result of maybe faulty electrical box or something like this,

491
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: which the defense experts said that you couldn't rule that out.

492
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: Remember they said you can't rule it out. But at

493
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: the end her trial ended in a hung jury, but

494
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: the DA has stated that they're going to try her again.

495
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,719
Speaker 1: So more to come on this case. We'll see what happens.

496
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks