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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Negative emotions feelings like fear, anger, sadness, and overwhelm

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Speaker 1: are just part of being human, but that doesn't make

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Speaker 1: them any easier to manage. Whether it's the sense of

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Speaker 1: dread we get before a challenging task or the frustration

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Speaker 1: of dealing with unmet expectations, our big feelings can drain

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Speaker 1: our energy, mess up our performance, and make us feel

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Speaker 1: like crap. The good news is that we don't have

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Speaker 1: to be at the mercy of our big feelings. Research

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Speaker 1: shows that with the right strategies, we can not only

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Speaker 1: manage tough emotions effectively, but also use them to our

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Speaker 1: advantage no matter what life throws our way. So in

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Speaker 1: today's episode of the Happiness Labs how To Season, we

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Speaker 1: will dive into the science of emotion regulation and to

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Speaker 1: help us, we have one of my favorite experts on

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Speaker 1: the topic here to teach you how to shift your

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Speaker 1: emotions is my friend, psychologist Cross.

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Speaker 2: Great to see you guys. Let me put on some

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Speaker 2: background here. Yeh again, what do you think I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to blur it here? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Blur's finderka Ethan founded the Emotion and Self Control Lab

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Speaker 1: at the University of Michigan and his latest book tackles

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Speaker 1: the topic of dealing with big feelings head on. It's

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Speaker 1: called shift managing your emotions so they don't manage you.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to Ethan's specific tips in a moment, but

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Speaker 1: I wanted to begin with how Ethan got interested in

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Speaker 1: emotion regulation in the first place. Ethan credits a lot

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Speaker 1: of his interest in the topic to his grandmother.

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Speaker 2: Well, my grandmother had this remarkable story. So she was

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Speaker 2: growing up in Poland around the time of World War Two,

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Speaker 2: and when it hit, she basically lost everything, so her

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Speaker 2: family was for the most pop slaughtered. She ended up

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Speaker 2: living in the forest for quite a while, bouncing around

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Speaker 2: from one ghetto to the next, and she ultimately survived

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Speaker 2: moved over to the States with nothing, this kind of

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Speaker 2: classic immigrant story. And I remember as a kid just

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Speaker 2: being totally fascinated about her experience, as I think so

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Speaker 2: many of us are when we're little. We want to

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Speaker 2: just know about where we come from, where the people

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Speaker 2: we love come from. And so I would ask her repeatedly,

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Speaker 2: like Bubby, what happened back then, Like how did you feel?

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Speaker 2: And how did you survive? And she would not engage

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Speaker 2: with me on those topics. You know, there's this great

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Speaker 2: quote that she once said, which was like, don't ask

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Speaker 2: why is a crooked letter, which is actually a really

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Speaker 2: interesting phrase that makes you think or it didn't mean,

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Speaker 2: but what does that mean? Well, what she meant was,

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Speaker 2: you know, asking why is just a source of pain,

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Speaker 2: So the just don't go there. And it was interesting

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Speaker 2: that she had mastered that command of English language, because

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Speaker 2: if you spoke to her, she spoke terrible English. She had, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, very accented and never quite really learned how

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Speaker 2: to speak fluently, but she had mastered that little bit.

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Speaker 2: Of course, I proceeded to not listen to her, and

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Speaker 2: I ended up devoting my career to doing a exactly

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Speaker 2: what she told me not to do, which is asking

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Speaker 2: why about our emotional lives? Why do we have the

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Speaker 2: emotions we do? And when we find them getting tweaked

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Speaker 2: in ways that we don't want them to be tweaked,

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Speaker 2: they get activated too intensely or for too long, what

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Speaker 2: can we do to rain them in? And so I

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Speaker 2: do attribute a lot of where I am today to

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Speaker 2: those early experiences with my grandmother, who, for the record,

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Speaker 2: aside from not talking to me about the pain of

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Speaker 2: the war, was an incredibly emotive and warm individual. So

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Speaker 2: just to put that out there, she was capable of

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Speaker 2: experiencing emotion, and she did. She just didn't really like

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Speaker 2: to talk about a teach.

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Speaker 1: It also seems like she was really not interested in

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Speaker 1: talking about the negative emotions. What are some of the

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Speaker 1: negative emotions you expected she experienced, but you didn't hear

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Speaker 1: it talking.

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Speaker 2: About terror, fear, anxiety, you know. I did discover later

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Speaker 2: on in her life she did recount her experiences for

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Speaker 2: a project at the United States Holocaust Museum, which is

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Speaker 2: where I learned a lot lot about her story. And

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Speaker 2: I also heard about her stories. Once a year she

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Speaker 2: would allow herself to go back to what happened. There's

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Speaker 2: like a grassroots organization of survivors from the town and

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Speaker 2: the towns nearby where she grew up, and they'd get

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Speaker 2: together and they just talk about what happened. And I

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Speaker 2: remember learning about an experience where several of her immediate

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Speaker 2: family members were killed, but her dad and her had

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Speaker 2: made it. And they're in this small ghetto and her

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Speaker 2: dad says they're coming to kill us. Hide she hid

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Speaker 2: somewhere in the apartment, I can't remember where, And then

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Speaker 2: her dad left and then he just never came back.

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Speaker 2: So when I think about that, or when I think

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Speaker 2: about her experience standing on a line, knowing that she

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Speaker 2: would be taken to be killed, and if it wasn't

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Speaker 2: for my grandfather essentially convincing the police officer to look

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Speaker 2: the other way while she ran away, Like, I think

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Speaker 2: to myself, how would I feel in that situation? And

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Speaker 2: it's terror, it is anxiety, it is dismayed, this complex

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Speaker 2: cocktail of negative emotions, and so, you know, I guess

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Speaker 2: in retrospect it made a lot of sense why she

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Speaker 2: didn't really want to talk to me about that. So

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Speaker 2: these are not pleasant states to be in. But you know, Laurie,

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Speaker 2: the thing is, in my mind, my grandmother was superwoman

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Speaker 2: for not only being able to survive those experiences, but

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Speaker 2: for them arguably by many metrics of success, being able

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Speaker 2: to thrive moving over here, living the dream, working super hard,

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Speaker 2: eventually buying her own home, restarting her family. And it

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Speaker 2: was really that story that captivated me from a young age.

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Speaker 1: And in your book you talk about how we've wanted

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Speaker 1: to figure out ways to regulate our emotions, especially our

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Speaker 1: negative emotions, for a long time. And I didn't know

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Speaker 1: the history of some of the kookier ways that people

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Speaker 1: went about this. So share some of these kind of

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Speaker 1: strange like historic ways that we've tried to regulate our emotions.

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Speaker 2: So the best way I can convey my experience reading

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Speaker 2: up on the history of emotions and emotion regulations is

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Speaker 2: to use the phrase blew my mind. It's just remarkable.

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Speaker 2: So we have likely been struggling with our ability to

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Speaker 2: manage our emotions for as long as we have been

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Speaker 2: roaming the planet. Why do I say that, Well, if

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Speaker 2: you look at some of the earliest writings ever discovered,

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Speaker 2: writing on clay tablets, these were writings that talked about

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Speaker 2: the pain of emotion, of being rejected, the pain of

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Speaker 2: a broken heart, and how that was managed. The first

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Speaker 2: surgical technique, the first technique that we believed was developed

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Speaker 2: for surgical technique was drilling holes in people's heads. And

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Speaker 2: there are likely many reasons that it was believed to

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Speaker 2: be used, but one of them, according to medical historians,

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Speaker 2: is to help people manage extreme emotions dysregulated states. And

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Speaker 2: like you know, if you think back eight to ten

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Speaker 2: thousand years ago when that first came on the scene,

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Speaker 2: you have this instance of people being consumed, assumed with emotion,

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Speaker 2: and what do we gotta do well, our theory about

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Speaker 2: what may have been driving that was there some evil

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Speaker 2: spirits in there, so you gotta purge yourself of those.

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Speaker 2: And that kind of purging mentality existed for quite some

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Speaker 2: time exorcisms, leeches, blood letting. But then if we fast

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Speaker 2: forward to the nineteen forties, there's another giant spike on

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Speaker 2: the emotion regulation timeline. A Portuguese physician wins the Nobel

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Speaker 2: Prize for what I would describe as an emotion regulation intervention.

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Speaker 2: That is right, someone has won the Nobel Prize for

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Speaker 2: emotion regulation intervention. What was it called the leucotomy or

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Speaker 2: in modern terms, the frontal lobotomy. So foot back the eyelid,

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Speaker 2: poke a few holes in your frontal cortex and turn

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Speaker 2: the volume down on how we are feeling. Nobel Prize.

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Speaker 2: But you know, one other really fun kind of historical

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Speaker 2: fact that I forgot to put in there is if

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Speaker 2: you go to the best selling book of all time

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Speaker 2: by a wide margin, let's tell everyone what was what

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Speaker 2: is the best selling book of all time? The Bible? No,

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Speaker 2: you got it, Bible.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm on Jeopardy.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I drink it's the Bible. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: Bible has sold many, many copies. What is one of

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Speaker 2: the most famous stories from the Bible. It is the

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Speaker 2: story of Adam and Eve. This is a story about

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Speaker 2: emotion regulation, or the failure to regulate emotions. So we've

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Speaker 2: been struggling with this stuff for a really long time.

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Speaker 2: And I get it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there have been times when if I knew

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Speaker 1: it was medically reasonable to drill a hole in my

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Speaker 1: head and I would stop ruminating or being sad or

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Speaker 1: kind of especially after like breakups and things like that,

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Speaker 1: Like I would have gone for it.

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Speaker 2: You know, either the pain is real and if you

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Speaker 2: look at the statistics, they're shocking. You know, this laur

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Speaker 2: better than better than most and and folks who are

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Speaker 2: listening to the podcast are no doubt familiar with these

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Speaker 2: statistics too. But the wellness industry, by some estimates, is

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Speaker 2: a trillion dollar industry. You see increasing amounts of resources

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Speaker 2: being devoted to helping people with mental health, with well

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Speaker 2: being written large culturally, I think we are now at

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Speaker 2: an inflection point where we really recognize the role that

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Speaker 2: our emotions are playing in our lives and understand the

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Speaker 2: need to manage them. So here's the really good news.

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Speaker 2: What fills me with hope is that we have learned

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Speaker 2: a lot about how we can manage our emotions without

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Speaker 2: having to take these extreme steps of damaging our brains. Which,

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Speaker 2: to be clear, I think I could speak for you,

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Speaker 2: Laurie of saying we do not endorse that on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: We're not endorsing brain holes.

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Speaker 2: No, yes, no brain holes. No no holes, Like, let's

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Speaker 2: just leave the holes out of the equation. Like, we've

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Speaker 2: got a fantastic array of non invasive tools that we

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Speaker 2: can use if we know what those tools are and

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Speaker 2: how they work. This is not to say we know

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Speaker 2: everything about emotion regulation. We have a lot to learn.

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Speaker 2: That's exciting, but we have learned quite a bit. And

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Speaker 2: what also to use my favorite phrase blows my mind

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Speaker 2: is if you ask most people, hey, where you ever

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Speaker 2: taught these tools growing up? By far and away, the

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Speaker 2: majority will say no. If I ask an audience, hey,

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Speaker 2: when is the first time you learned, like how to

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Speaker 2: exercise physically, most people will say, you know, probably like

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Speaker 2: first or second grade. We have gym class. Yeah, jumping jacks,

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Speaker 2: push ups, you know how to do those? I may

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Speaker 2: not like to do it, but we know what to do. Okay.

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Speaker 2: When is the first time you learned how to formally

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Speaker 2: learned how to manage your emotions? Most people will say never,

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Speaker 2: and that to me is a travesty, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's something that we have the opportunity to address by

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Speaker 2: you know, quite frankly, what you're doing on this podcast,

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Speaker 2: which is to take science and to share it with

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Speaker 2: folks in ways that can benefit them.

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Speaker 1: I still find it amazing that we teach physical education

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Speaker 1: and even drivers to our young people, but we don't

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Speaker 1: always give them the tools they need to cope with

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Speaker 1: their big feelings. It's time for a short break, but

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Speaker 1: even soon be back to share the first of his

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Speaker 1: evidence based how to tips for regulating big feelings, the

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Speaker 1: Happiness Lab. Will be back in a moment. Big emotions

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Speaker 1: often feel pretty out of control when feelings like fear, overwhelm,

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Speaker 1: and anger kick in, they often feel like they're here

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Speaker 1: to stay. But psychologist Ethan Cross, author of Shift Managing

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Speaker 1: Your Emotions so They Don't manage You, argues that there

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Speaker 1: are lots of ways to get big feelings under control,

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Speaker 1: and his first tip for doing so is to find

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Speaker 1: the right outside sensory stimulus, a hook from a friend,

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Speaker 1: hearing a kind word, or maybe even sipping a warm drink.

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Speaker 1: Research shows that using our senses can be a great

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Speaker 1: way to break out of big feelings. In fact, Ethan

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Speaker 1: has a particularly good example of his own emotions being

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Speaker 1: altered by a cheesy song or let me rephrase by

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Speaker 1: a stone cold rock classic.

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Speaker 2: So Journey, Don't Stop Believing. I will admit, huge fan,

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Speaker 2: what's one of my go to feel good pump up songs?

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Speaker 2: If we go back in time, about five or so years,

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Speaker 2: I was coaching my daughter's soccer team on the weekends.

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Speaker 2: She was around five or six. And I love, love,

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Speaker 2: love coaching kid soccer, not because I'm particularly good at it.

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Speaker 2: It's also I'm not getting super immersed it. It's just

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Speaker 2: a fun contrast to everything else I do. And so

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Speaker 2: I would look forward to these games with her on

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Speaker 2: the weekend throughout the week and normally she was just

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Speaker 2: a ball of excitement and ready to go. But there

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Speaker 2: was this one day that really sticks out in my

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Speaker 2: memory where she was just really bumming me out. She

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Speaker 2: was super glum, like it was like I was pulling

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Speaker 2: her to get into the car to go. She did

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Speaker 2: not want to be there, and you know, I start driving,

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Speaker 2: look in the rear view mirror. Her head's kind of

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Speaker 2: like draped over her shoulder, no smile. And then all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, Don't Stop Believing comes on the radio,

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Speaker 2: and I'm instantly kind of getting a little bit more excited.

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Speaker 2: And then I start audibly, you know, kind of humming

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Speaker 2: and singing along and turn the volume up a little bit.

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Speaker 2: And then I look in the back seat and I

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Speaker 2: noticed that she's beginning to jam out also, and she's

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Speaker 2: bopping her head and she's kind of humming along, you know.

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Speaker 2: Fast forward about seven minutes. We get to the park,

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Speaker 2: and before I can even park the car, she just

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Speaker 2: opens the door, bolts out of the car, and scores

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Speaker 2: what I remember to be seven thousand goals that game

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Speaker 2: not true, but it was really in many ways that

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Speaker 2: experience with my daughter and Jerney. A light bulb went off.

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Speaker 2: From that point on, when I would look at my

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Speaker 2: dashboard and see the music console, I no longer just

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Speaker 2: saw an LED dashboard. I now saw an emotion regulation device.

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Speaker 1: This is such an important idea because I also use

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Speaker 1: music without realizing it to regulate my emotions all the time.

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Speaker 1: But I think this is a spot where I kind

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Speaker 1: of mess up, right, because unlike you who had this

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Speaker 1: moment where your daughter is feeling glove and you put

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Speaker 1: on Don't Stop Believing, which is like the most happy

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Speaker 1: pump up get out dancing on your soccer match related song. Ever,

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Speaker 1: when I'm feeling kind of glove, I don't gravitate towards

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Speaker 1: the journey, or I gravitate towards journey, but different journey

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Speaker 1: songs that come is.

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Speaker 2: Sad you know Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Like it's like the whiny you know, love

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Speaker 1: bites kinds of songs, right, And so what am I

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Speaker 1: doing wrong there? Because I'm using music to kind of

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Speaker 1: move my erooss around, but it seems like it's not shifting.

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Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't say you're doing something wrong unless it's

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Speaker 2: counter to your goals. And let me unpack that for

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Speaker 2: a second. So, one really important message I hope to

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Speaker 2: convey in this book is that all of our emotions

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Speaker 2: are functional when they're experiencing the right proportions, not too

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Speaker 2: intense or not too long. What do I mean by that?

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Speaker 2: How could anger or sadness or envy ever be useful? Well,

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Speaker 2: if you look at what those emotions are doing. They're

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Speaker 2: often being triggered in particular situations where the way they

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Speaker 2: are motivating you to think, feel, and behave can actually

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Speaker 2: be adaptive. So let's take sadness as an example. Because

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Speaker 2: you brought up the kind of sh hago, a deell

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Speaker 2: genre of songs. We typically experience sadness when we experience

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Speaker 2: some loss that we cannot regain, so the loss of

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Speaker 2: a loved one, we don't get a job, we can't

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Speaker 2: ever get it. And in that circumstance, when we feel

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Speaker 2: this emotion, what research shows it motivates us to do it.

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Speaker 2: It slows us down physiologically, it leads us to turn

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Speaker 2: our attention inward, to inter respect, to try to make

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Speaker 2: sense of the situation. There is a need for menimaking.

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Speaker 2: Often when you experience sadness, well, the world is no

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Speaker 2: longer the way I expected it to be or have

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Speaker 2: experienced it. I got to like reconfigure how I make

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Speaker 2: sense of this world now. So let me take some

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Speaker 2: time by myself to engage in that reflective process. But

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Speaker 2: because going off in the corner by myself maybe a

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Speaker 2: little dangerous, right, we don't want to leave people totally alone.

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Speaker 2: We have evolved to send warning signs to other folks

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Speaker 2: to let them know that we're experiencing sadness and might

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Speaker 2: need a little help, which is often a sad expression.

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Speaker 2: When you see a sad expression on someone else's face,

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Speaker 2: you mimic that. My kids, by the way, have mastered this.

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Speaker 2: I can be like really appropriately upset for some negative

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Speaker 2: behavior and they do this exaggerated stick out the lower

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Speaker 2: leb and it is so powerful it gets me every

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Speaker 2: time in any case I digress. So sadness can be functional.

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Speaker 2: It could help us think through some problems. So your

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Speaker 2: intuition to like listen to journey that is a way

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Speaker 2: of you going deeper into that potentially sad state to

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Speaker 2: facilitate that introspective meaning making process. Here's the big butt

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Speaker 2: that I want to convey though, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: where you originally were going. If you are feeling sad

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Speaker 2: and you don't want to feel sad, don't listen to

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Speaker 2: sad music. Then what you want to do is you

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Speaker 2: want to resist that urge to listen to the music

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Speaker 2: that is congruous. So we're talking about this emotional congruency effect,

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Speaker 2: and you want to go in the other direction. So

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Speaker 2: this is what I do strategically if I've got like

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Speaker 2: a high stakes presentation coming up and I have some jitters, right,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to listen to music that just amplifies

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Speaker 2: that and say I'm going the journey route, right, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to other terribly terribly cheesy pump up music. Living

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Speaker 2: on a Prayer being another great example, with a little

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Speaker 2: bit of Metallica enter the Sandman mixed in right, Like,

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Speaker 2: this is a way in which I am strategically harnessing

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Speaker 2: my senses to push my emotions on a different trajectory.

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Speaker 2: And the senses should not be underestimated as a tool

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Speaker 2: that could be strategically used to do that, because we

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Speaker 2: know that the links between sensation and emotional experience, these

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Speaker 2: are very strong links that exist in our brains. And

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Speaker 2: so if you are aware of how your senses could

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Speaker 2: affect you, this opens up the door to all manner

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Speaker 2: of tools that you can recruit to help you out.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasons I loved reading your book

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Speaker 1: is that, of course I've known about the music example,

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Speaker 1: maybe not for shifting in the right direction, but I

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Speaker 1: knew that that was a powerful sensory tool. I could

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Speaker 1: use your book really reminded me. There are lots of

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Speaker 1: sensory tools you can use. Right. I can use touch

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Speaker 1: of like a comfy blanket. Right, I could use just

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Speaker 1: the visuals, like turning the light on more to kind

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Speaker 1: of wake myself up more. There's just so many different

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Speaker 1: kinds of sensory experiences you can use to shift your

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Speaker 1: emotions around. I kind of remembered audition, but I've kind

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Speaker 1: of forgotten about some of the other ones.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this was my experience too. In fact,

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Speaker 2: one of my regis sudents, sim Mi Kayla Rodriguez. We

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Speaker 2: actually wrote a paper after I dug into this literature.

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Speaker 2: I like, why aren't we talking about our senses more

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Speaker 2: so that we wrote this paper called Sensory Emotion Regulation,

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Speaker 2: which we looked at each of the major senses and

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Speaker 2: all of them have this capacity to relatively effortlessly shift

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Speaker 2: our emotions. And I think the effort piece is an

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Speaker 2: important one to put on people's radar. I talk about

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Speaker 2: a ton of different tools in shift from pushing our

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Speaker 2: emotions around. Some of them aren't quite effort full. They

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Speaker 2: take resources for us to implement these tools, and there's

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Speaker 2: nothing wrong with that. There's a time and place for that.

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Speaker 2: But what we know about all of us human beings

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Speaker 2: is that in general, if we don't have to exert effort,

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Speaker 2: we're not going to do it. We tend to be

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Speaker 2: a lazy species in that regard because we're trying to

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Speaker 2: conserve our resources. Our senses push our emotions around really

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Speaker 2: really fast. And so touch is another great example that

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Speaker 2: I like to remind folks about. I call this tool

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Speaker 2: affectionate but not creepy touch because you have to be

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Speaker 2: careful about how you wield that tool. But you know,

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Speaker 2: like a fist bump at work, that's a tactile exchange

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Speaker 2: that activates an emotional response, right, Like, what is the

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Speaker 2: first tool we use with kids when they're born into

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Speaker 2: this world to soothe them, to regulate them. It is

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Speaker 2: skin to skin contact. Those kinds of tactile experiences they

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Speaker 2: stay with us throughout our lives. The caveat, of course,

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Speaker 2: is research does show that if a tactile experience is

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Speaker 2: not wanted, which would be the creepy form of touch,

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Speaker 2: it not only mitigates positive effects, that actually can elicit

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Speaker 2: a negative reaction. So to be clear to everyone who's listening,

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Speaker 2: Laurie and Ethan and I think I can say this

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Speaker 2: for you, Laurie. We are not advocating haphazardly touching people

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Speaker 2: at work and in your lives. In the appropriate context, though,

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Speaker 2: this cannot be.

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Speaker 1: Powerful, and I think we can just use forms of

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Speaker 1: self touch that feel really good. Right reading your book,

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Speaker 1: I was reminded, there's this blanket that just feels really cozy,

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Speaker 1: and when I'm having a bad day, like I can

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Speaker 1: just kind of go to it.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I have like slippers that are just really comfortable.

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Speaker 2: Right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm also a huge fan of some of Kristin Neff's

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Speaker 1: suggestions that, you know, if you need that kind of

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Speaker 1: self touch but you're not around somebody for whom it

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Speaker 1: would be effectively appropriate to ask them, you can give

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Speaker 1: yourself some self touch, a little self hug or a

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Speaker 1: little self soothing. Because brains are stupid, they don't know

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Speaker 1: who's giving you that self touch.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I I'll share with you, And I

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Speaker 2: guess everyone who's listening a somewhat embarrassing implementation of this tool.

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Speaker 2: And I did it unknowingly. I was giving a presentation

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Speaker 2: the other the other day, and it was after lunch,

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Speaker 2: so I had an upset stomach and I found myself

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Speaker 2: like pacing the room and just rubbing my stomach a

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Speaker 2: little bit, rubbing your tummy, yeah, rubbing my tummy. And

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Speaker 2: then I had the metama, what are you doing? Stop

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Speaker 2: doing this? So I stopped doing immediately. So here's other

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Speaker 2: one fun fun finding in this space. Organizations are leveraging

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Speaker 2: this tool of sensation as a regulator all the time,

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Speaker 2: and often completely out of our awareness. So many organizations,

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Speaker 2: for example, have beautiful artwork on the walls and visual

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Speaker 2: stimuli designed to push us into a different emotional space

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Speaker 2: that may not be so surprising, But what was surprising

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Speaker 2: to me were the ways in which organizations often pump

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Speaker 2: certain kinds of odors through their ventilation systems to arouse

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Speaker 2: a certain kind of positive response. And there are companies

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Speaker 2: that really specialize in constructing the right ode to match

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Speaker 2: the organization's goals. And so this came full circle to

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Speaker 2: me because earlier on in life, I remember my children

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Speaker 2: whenever we go on vacation, we go to a hotel,

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Speaker 2: and I remember they were going, ah, daddy itself so

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Speaker 2: nice in here. This is such a nice place. And

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Speaker 2: that is exactly the goal, and it is a way

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Speaker 2: that we are being regulated by another organization through this path.

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Speaker 1: But the idea is that we can do exactly the

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Speaker 1: same thing ourselves totally. We'd scented candles or just all

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Speaker 1: the kinds of ways that we can manipulate our sensory

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Speaker 1: environment to feel better.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And you know, the real hope that I

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Speaker 2: have for this book is it lays out all of

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Speaker 2: the tools that exist. Some of these tools may be film.

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Speaker 2: You may have like encountered some of these tools but

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Speaker 2: not realized it. You may not know about some of

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Speaker 2: these tools. But the idea is that when we lay

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Speaker 2: all of this out and explain how this works, now,

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Speaker 2: we give you the opportunity to start wheeling these tools

433
00:23:09,876 --> 00:23:15,796
Speaker 2: strategically to help you match your emotion regulatory goals. My

434
00:23:15,956 --> 00:23:18,196
Speaker 2: hope is that that is a boon to people in

435
00:23:18,316 --> 00:23:20,116
Speaker 2: terms of improving their lives.

436
00:23:20,516 --> 00:23:23,196
Speaker 1: So let's jump to tool number two, which is how

437
00:23:23,236 --> 00:23:26,716
Speaker 1: we can shift our emotion using our attention. A big

438
00:23:26,716 --> 00:23:28,836
Speaker 1: one that I know I tend to use a lot

439
00:23:28,876 --> 00:23:31,436
Speaker 1: when it comes to shifting my emotions with attention is

440
00:23:31,476 --> 00:23:35,276
Speaker 1: through distraction. Am I alone is distraction to kind of

441
00:23:35,316 --> 00:23:36,996
Speaker 1: go to strategy for lots of folks.

442
00:23:37,196 --> 00:23:40,476
Speaker 2: Distraction is is that's a big eat, and it is

443
00:23:40,516 --> 00:23:42,836
Speaker 2: a go to for lots of folks. And what's interesting

444
00:23:43,036 --> 00:23:48,476
Speaker 2: is it doesn't always get the props that it deserves.

445
00:23:49,236 --> 00:23:53,596
Speaker 2: There's a common belief that when you experience big, significant

446
00:23:53,636 --> 00:23:56,276
Speaker 2: emotional events in your life, you should not avoid them,

447
00:23:56,276 --> 00:23:59,316
Speaker 2: you should not distract, You should approach them work through them.

448
00:23:59,476 --> 00:24:03,276
Speaker 2: This message is often reinforced in popular culture, and it

449
00:24:03,316 --> 00:24:05,116
Speaker 2: turns out if you look at the science, it is

450
00:24:05,356 --> 00:24:09,476
Speaker 2: not entirely true. So what we have seen is that

451
00:24:09,836 --> 00:24:13,556
Speaker 2: really the key to wielding your attention effectively is being

452
00:24:13,596 --> 00:24:17,676
Speaker 2: strategic in how you do so, approaching certain kinds of

453
00:24:17,716 --> 00:24:20,716
Speaker 2: experiences to work through them when the conditions are right.

454
00:24:20,876 --> 00:24:24,676
Speaker 2: But also if you can distract in a healthy way.

455
00:24:24,956 --> 00:24:27,836
Speaker 2: What I mean by that is not by substance abuses

456
00:24:27,916 --> 00:24:30,836
Speaker 2: or risky behaviors, which some people. Some people do, but

457
00:24:31,316 --> 00:24:35,316
Speaker 2: a positive form of distraction can often be really useful

458
00:24:35,396 --> 00:24:38,556
Speaker 2: for giving you some space from the experience to then

459
00:24:38,636 --> 00:24:43,476
Speaker 2: let you reapproach it with a healthier perspective. My grandmother

460
00:24:43,556 --> 00:24:49,156
Speaker 2: is actually really effective at using attention strategically. She would

461
00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:51,356
Speaker 2: not dwell on the experience over and over. She didn't

462
00:24:51,356 --> 00:24:54,556
Speaker 2: get lost in rumination and chatter about this event. She

463
00:24:54,676 --> 00:24:58,076
Speaker 2: would focus on things that were under her control, her kids,

464
00:24:58,236 --> 00:25:01,956
Speaker 2: her job. But when the conversation with other people one

465
00:25:01,996 --> 00:25:04,196
Speaker 2: time a year, or even if she ran into fellow

466
00:25:04,236 --> 00:25:09,036
Speaker 2: survivors lend itself to thinking about this experience, she would

467
00:25:09,436 --> 00:25:11,476
Speaker 2: with it so she wouldn't avoid it to the point

468
00:25:11,596 --> 00:25:14,716
Speaker 2: where it was a chronic form of avoidance that we

469
00:25:14,796 --> 00:25:18,476
Speaker 2: know is really harmful. You know, there are various I

470
00:25:18,516 --> 00:25:22,676
Speaker 2: think steps that people can follow to figure out when

471
00:25:22,676 --> 00:25:25,516
Speaker 2: they should approach and when they should avoid or go

472
00:25:25,596 --> 00:25:28,916
Speaker 2: back and forth between their experiences. Step one is just

473
00:25:29,236 --> 00:25:33,236
Speaker 2: I like recognizing there's no one size fits all solution here,

474
00:25:33,596 --> 00:25:36,116
Speaker 2: not for wielding your attention, or for that matter, for

475
00:25:36,316 --> 00:25:39,836
Speaker 2: using any of the different shifters and emotion regulation tools

476
00:25:39,876 --> 00:25:42,436
Speaker 2: I talk about in the book. What we know is

477
00:25:42,476 --> 00:25:48,436
Speaker 2: that variability is the rule, not the exception. Different tools

478
00:25:48,476 --> 00:25:51,796
Speaker 2: work for different people in different situations. I liken it

479
00:25:51,836 --> 00:25:55,516
Speaker 2: to physical exercise. If I take ten people in my

480
00:25:55,636 --> 00:25:57,916
Speaker 2: social network and I ask them what they do to

481
00:25:57,996 --> 00:26:01,396
Speaker 2: keep physically fit, I'm likely going to get ten different

482
00:26:01,756 --> 00:26:04,796
Speaker 2: physical health routines. The data that we and others have

483
00:26:04,956 --> 00:26:10,116
Speaker 2: collected suggest that emotion regulation is very, very similar. We

484
00:26:10,196 --> 00:26:13,796
Speaker 2: rely on different tools in different situations. Let's say you

485
00:26:14,356 --> 00:26:18,076
Speaker 2: encounter an experience that provokes you in some way and

486
00:26:18,516 --> 00:26:21,156
Speaker 2: you decide to distract, and so what's your favorite distraction?

487
00:26:21,196 --> 00:26:23,556
Speaker 1: Laurier the wordal archive, where I kind of go back

488
00:26:23,556 --> 00:26:26,236
Speaker 1: and do old wordal puzzles that I haven't done before.

489
00:26:26,396 --> 00:26:31,836
Speaker 2: That is a really really good distractor because it is pleasant,

490
00:26:31,876 --> 00:26:35,916
Speaker 2: but also it is cognitively demanding, so it captures your attention,

491
00:26:36,276 --> 00:26:38,676
Speaker 2: which is useful for a distraction. You want a distraction

492
00:26:38,796 --> 00:26:41,716
Speaker 2: to capture your attention to prevent it from going back

493
00:26:41,796 --> 00:26:44,756
Speaker 2: right away to the situation that's just provoked you. So okay,

494
00:26:44,756 --> 00:26:47,956
Speaker 2: So let's say you know you have let's say a

495
00:26:47,956 --> 00:26:49,556
Speaker 2: podcast interview doesn't go the way you want.

496
00:26:49,636 --> 00:26:51,796
Speaker 1: That would never happen, ethan, come on, now, it.

497
00:26:51,676 --> 00:26:56,236
Speaker 2: Would never happen, So you know, so that happens and

498
00:26:56,316 --> 00:27:01,076
Speaker 2: you distract, and then when you're done distracting, turns out

499
00:27:01,636 --> 00:27:04,716
Speaker 2: you're done. You're not thinking about that problem that that

500
00:27:04,836 --> 00:27:07,956
Speaker 2: interview again. Well, if that's the case and it doesn't

501
00:27:07,956 --> 00:27:12,996
Speaker 2: resurface into aware, like fantastic, keep doing what you do,

502
00:27:13,236 --> 00:27:16,556
Speaker 2: move on with your life. Your psychological immune system has

503
00:27:16,676 --> 00:27:20,476
Speaker 2: done its job behind the scenes. Time has passed, the

504
00:27:20,516 --> 00:27:23,556
Speaker 2: intensity of the emotions has decided, and you're off to

505
00:27:23,636 --> 00:27:26,476
Speaker 2: the next challenge, the next interview. If, on the other hand,

506
00:27:26,876 --> 00:27:29,356
Speaker 2: you take a break, you distract, and then you find

507
00:27:29,396 --> 00:27:31,876
Speaker 2: yourself thinking about the experience again when you're done, well,

508
00:27:31,916 --> 00:27:34,436
Speaker 2: then that could be a signal to then, okay, let

509
00:27:34,436 --> 00:27:36,836
Speaker 2: me re engage with it. And now with the gift

510
00:27:36,876 --> 00:27:40,996
Speaker 2: of time, which often moderates the intensity of our emotions. Now,

511
00:27:41,076 --> 00:27:43,116
Speaker 2: let me try to work through this experience a little

512
00:27:43,156 --> 00:27:46,876
Speaker 2: bit more productively. And maybe I'll even layer another shifter,

513
00:27:47,276 --> 00:27:49,676
Speaker 2: another tool on to help me do that. So maybe

514
00:27:49,676 --> 00:27:52,636
Speaker 2: I'll try to figure out, well, why did this happen?

515
00:27:52,636 --> 00:27:55,316
Speaker 2: Why didn't this interview go very well? I'll think about

516
00:27:55,316 --> 00:27:57,676
Speaker 2: it from a distance perspective. All right, Laurie, why do

517
00:27:57,756 --> 00:28:00,196
Speaker 2: you think this didn't go so well? So you'll try

518
00:28:00,236 --> 00:28:03,636
Speaker 2: to process it from a more objective standpoint, So you're

519
00:28:03,716 --> 00:28:04,956
Speaker 2: layering in other tools there.

520
00:28:05,076 --> 00:28:06,796
Speaker 1: And this is a really nice transition to the third

521
00:28:06,836 --> 00:28:08,836
Speaker 1: shifter that you mentioned in your book, the fact that

522
00:28:08,876 --> 00:28:11,236
Speaker 1: we can get a little bit of perspective when we

523
00:28:11,276 --> 00:28:13,756
Speaker 1: need to regulate our emotions. Now, this is something we've

524
00:28:13,756 --> 00:28:16,916
Speaker 1: talked about on this show before, but explain again why

525
00:28:16,956 --> 00:28:19,636
Speaker 1: perspective can be so important to shifting our emotions.

526
00:28:19,756 --> 00:28:23,316
Speaker 2: Well, the reason perspective is so useful is we all

527
00:28:23,356 --> 00:28:27,796
Speaker 2: have the capacity to reframe how we think about our circumstances,

528
00:28:27,956 --> 00:28:30,836
Speaker 2: but it can often feel really hard to do that

529
00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:33,756
Speaker 2: when we are totally immersed in the situation and the

530
00:28:33,796 --> 00:28:36,836
Speaker 2: emotions are flooding us. Actually the name of this chapter,

531
00:28:37,036 --> 00:28:39,476
Speaker 2: it's named after an anecdote with one of my close friends.

532
00:28:39,476 --> 00:28:41,996
Speaker 2: I don't know how I can actually say this, you know.

533
00:28:42,036 --> 00:28:45,356
Speaker 2: I was driving back from dinner one day with another

534
00:28:45,436 --> 00:28:48,476
Speaker 2: couple and the other couple is talking about a difficult

535
00:28:48,556 --> 00:28:52,236
Speaker 2: experience that my friend was having at work, and his

536
00:28:52,276 --> 00:28:54,076
Speaker 2: wife said to him, well, why don't you just think

537
00:28:54,116 --> 00:28:58,516
Speaker 2: differently about it? And his response was easier bleeping said

538
00:28:58,556 --> 00:29:01,516
Speaker 2: than done to convey. I think this very common experience

539
00:29:01,556 --> 00:29:05,996
Speaker 2: we have, which we know that we can think differently,

540
00:29:06,156 --> 00:29:08,996
Speaker 2: and we should think differently. We should reframe how we're

541
00:29:09,116 --> 00:29:11,876
Speaker 2: thinking about this, be more optimistic, but we just have

542
00:29:12,036 --> 00:29:14,116
Speaker 2: hard time doing that in the moment. And so what

543
00:29:14,156 --> 00:29:17,716
Speaker 2: we've learned is that in those situations, taking a step back,

544
00:29:17,916 --> 00:29:21,956
Speaker 2: thinking about our circumstances from a more distanced perspective, almost

545
00:29:21,996 --> 00:29:24,596
Speaker 2: like we're giving advice to someone else can be really

546
00:29:24,636 --> 00:29:26,196
Speaker 2: helpful for allowing us to do that.

547
00:29:26,396 --> 00:29:28,036
Speaker 1: And you've come up with a super easy way we

548
00:29:28,076 --> 00:29:31,396
Speaker 1: can do that linguistically, just how we use different pronouns, right.

549
00:29:31,276 --> 00:29:34,476
Speaker 2: That's right, So using your own name and you can

550
00:29:34,516 --> 00:29:36,356
Speaker 2: be a useful tool for allowing us to do this.

551
00:29:36,436 --> 00:29:38,516
Speaker 2: So we usually use the word you and we give

552
00:29:38,516 --> 00:29:40,876
Speaker 2: advice to other people. So when you use the word

553
00:29:40,916 --> 00:29:44,116
Speaker 2: you to refer to your own problem, so ethan, why

554
00:29:44,116 --> 00:29:45,436
Speaker 2: are you doing this? And what do you think you

555
00:29:45,436 --> 00:29:48,356
Speaker 2: should do? What that does is it automatically switches your perspective.

556
00:29:48,476 --> 00:29:50,356
Speaker 2: It puts you in this frame of mind where now

557
00:29:50,436 --> 00:29:53,356
Speaker 2: you're giving advice to essentially another person. It's another person

558
00:29:53,356 --> 00:29:56,036
Speaker 2: who happens to be you, So you have full access

559
00:29:56,076 --> 00:29:58,916
Speaker 2: to everything that's happening inside that person's mind. But it's

560
00:29:58,956 --> 00:30:01,316
Speaker 2: just easier to do so because you're doing it from

561
00:30:01,316 --> 00:30:05,116
Speaker 2: that more objective standpoint. So that's one really simple distancing

562
00:30:05,196 --> 00:30:08,636
Speaker 2: tool that you can use. Another powerful way of broadening

563
00:30:08,636 --> 00:30:12,116
Speaker 2: our perspect active is to do what I call mental

564
00:30:12,116 --> 00:30:14,956
Speaker 2: time travel. So you jump into this mental time travel

565
00:30:14,956 --> 00:30:17,116
Speaker 2: machine we all possess. You could go into the future

566
00:30:17,916 --> 00:30:19,276
Speaker 2: and think, so, how are you going to feel about

567
00:30:19,316 --> 00:30:22,356
Speaker 2: this next week, next month, next year. When you ask

568
00:30:22,356 --> 00:30:26,116
Speaker 2: yourself that question, and notice I'm doing that, still maintaining

569
00:30:26,116 --> 00:30:28,436
Speaker 2: the linguistic distance, right, how are you going to feel

570
00:30:28,476 --> 00:30:31,156
Speaker 2: about this down the road? What that does is it

571
00:30:31,236 --> 00:30:35,596
Speaker 2: makes clear to you something you've experienced your entire life,

572
00:30:35,996 --> 00:30:37,756
Speaker 2: but we often lose sight of it in the moment,

573
00:30:37,756 --> 00:30:41,156
Speaker 2: which is as awful as our emotions are. As time

574
00:30:41,196 --> 00:30:45,156
Speaker 2: stretches on, they typically fade. It's a very common trajectory

575
00:30:45,196 --> 00:30:48,956
Speaker 2: that characterizes emotional responses. As time goes on, they kind

576
00:30:48,956 --> 00:30:50,916
Speaker 2: of peter out. And so how am I going to

577
00:30:50,956 --> 00:30:53,036
Speaker 2: feel about this next year? I'm going to feel better

578
00:30:53,076 --> 00:30:56,516
Speaker 2: about it. I've lived through that countless times in my life.

579
00:30:56,876 --> 00:30:59,596
Speaker 2: So mental time travel machine into the future helps you

580
00:30:59,636 --> 00:31:01,996
Speaker 2: with that. You could also go back in time. It's

581
00:31:01,996 --> 00:31:04,516
Speaker 2: another way of broadening our perspective. It works a little differently.

582
00:31:04,716 --> 00:31:07,876
Speaker 2: And if I'm struggling with a really difficult situation at

583
00:31:07,916 --> 00:31:10,556
Speaker 2: work or in my personal life, I could jump into

584
00:31:10,556 --> 00:31:13,316
Speaker 2: the mental time travel machine and go to the Polish

585
00:31:13,396 --> 00:31:16,636
Speaker 2: Woods in the nineteen forties with my grandmother. Right now,

586
00:31:16,676 --> 00:31:20,116
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about the adversity that she experienced back then,

587
00:31:20,916 --> 00:31:23,276
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking to myself, Wow, if she was able

588
00:31:23,276 --> 00:31:26,116
Speaker 2: to get through this, I can handle what I'm dealing

589
00:31:26,156 --> 00:31:28,036
Speaker 2: with now, So that's time to travel to the past.

590
00:31:28,076 --> 00:31:29,516
Speaker 2: Those are some other distancing tools.

591
00:31:30,196 --> 00:31:32,636
Speaker 1: Self talk and mental time travel are great ways to

592
00:31:32,636 --> 00:31:35,676
Speaker 1: put your emotions in perspective. But if big feelings are

593
00:31:35,716 --> 00:31:38,756
Speaker 1: still dragging you down, Ethan has a more radical suggestion

594
00:31:38,956 --> 00:31:42,196
Speaker 1: forgetting some distance between you and whatever's bothering you. That

595
00:31:42,356 --> 00:31:50,596
Speaker 1: radical suggestion is coming up right after the break of

596
00:31:50,676 --> 00:31:53,356
Speaker 1: all the tips Ethan cross outlines and his new book Shift,

597
00:31:53,556 --> 00:31:56,436
Speaker 1: Managing your Emotions so they don't manage you. The one

598
00:31:56,436 --> 00:31:58,916
Speaker 1: that resonates with me most is the strategy of putting

599
00:31:58,956 --> 00:32:01,956
Speaker 1: some physical space between you and your problems. What I

600
00:32:01,996 --> 00:32:04,196
Speaker 1: didn't realize was that his insights about the power of

601
00:32:04,236 --> 00:32:07,476
Speaker 1: physical distance were partly inspired by me.

602
00:32:08,356 --> 00:32:11,356
Speaker 2: It's funny you bring that up, Lori, because it was you, Laurie,

603
00:32:11,556 --> 00:32:14,676
Speaker 2: who I talked to about this, and so maybe I

604
00:32:14,716 --> 00:32:16,916
Speaker 2: could turn the tides here and ask you about this.

605
00:32:17,076 --> 00:32:19,556
Speaker 2: So you know, as I was researching the book, I

606
00:32:19,676 --> 00:32:24,236
Speaker 2: was struck by the power of spaces to push our

607
00:32:24,276 --> 00:32:27,516
Speaker 2: emotions around. I think spaces, like our senses, are often

608
00:32:27,756 --> 00:32:32,436
Speaker 2: a tool for manager emotions that we see literally every

609
00:32:32,516 --> 00:32:34,676
Speaker 2: day as long as our eyes are open, but we

610
00:32:34,836 --> 00:32:38,876
Speaker 2: totally take for granted. And you have a really powerful

611
00:32:38,956 --> 00:32:44,036
Speaker 2: story about how changing your spaces powerfully modulated your own

612
00:32:44,036 --> 00:32:46,436
Speaker 2: emotional response. So would you mind telling telling folks what

613
00:32:46,516 --> 00:32:46,956
Speaker 2: you told me?

614
00:32:47,236 --> 00:32:48,756
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Well it's in the book now, so I

615
00:32:48,756 --> 00:32:50,356
Speaker 1: guess everybody's going to read it anyway.

616
00:32:50,436 --> 00:32:50,796
Speaker 2: Yeah. I know.

617
00:32:51,276 --> 00:32:53,356
Speaker 1: This was around the time that I was experiencing a

618
00:32:53,356 --> 00:32:55,476
Speaker 1: lot of burnout in my role as a head of

619
00:32:55,516 --> 00:32:59,436
Speaker 1: college working on y'elle's campus where it was just after

620
00:32:59,476 --> 00:33:02,556
Speaker 1: the pandemic. I was feeling incredibly burned out, and I

621
00:33:02,596 --> 00:33:05,356
Speaker 1: made the tough decision to leave that role. But when

622
00:33:05,356 --> 00:33:07,796
Speaker 1: I left that role and had some time off, I

623
00:33:07,836 --> 00:33:09,556
Speaker 1: had to face the question of like, Okay, well where

624
00:33:09,596 --> 00:33:11,676
Speaker 1: do I want to be Right, I have a house

625
00:33:11,916 --> 00:33:14,996
Speaker 1: in my hometown in Connecticut. I could have moved there,

626
00:33:15,556 --> 00:33:17,756
Speaker 1: but my husband and I weren't tied to anything, and

627
00:33:17,836 --> 00:33:20,156
Speaker 1: so I said, well, why don't I go to a

628
00:33:20,196 --> 00:33:22,596
Speaker 1: different place, a place that's really far away from the

629
00:33:22,636 --> 00:33:25,476
Speaker 1: physical place where I was experiencing burnout, but also a

630
00:33:25,516 --> 00:33:28,996
Speaker 1: place that had certain memories for me or certain associations,

631
00:33:29,036 --> 00:33:31,796
Speaker 1: And so I decided to move back to where I

632
00:33:31,796 --> 00:33:35,316
Speaker 1: went to grad school in Massachusetts and Cambridge, Massachusetts, and

633
00:33:35,636 --> 00:33:38,316
Speaker 1: I moved from my huge head of college house into

634
00:33:38,396 --> 00:33:42,276
Speaker 1: this smaller apartment, and honestly, I think it was the

635
00:33:42,316 --> 00:33:45,476
Speaker 1: thing that wound up making me feel much less burned out. Right,

636
00:33:45,516 --> 00:33:48,076
Speaker 1: I was just in a completely different place with totally

637
00:33:48,076 --> 00:33:51,076
Speaker 1: different sensory experiences than I was in before. It was

638
00:33:51,116 --> 00:33:53,476
Speaker 1: a nice way to distract myself from some of the

639
00:33:53,516 --> 00:33:56,036
Speaker 1: things that were tricky during my life at Yale and

640
00:33:56,076 --> 00:33:58,276
Speaker 1: some of the stresses I was facing. It allowed me

641
00:33:58,356 --> 00:34:01,756
Speaker 1: to focus my attention more on running this podcast rather

642
00:34:01,796 --> 00:34:04,316
Speaker 1: than worrying about my lab and some of these other things.

643
00:34:04,836 --> 00:34:08,916
Speaker 1: And within like weeks, I was feeling completely better. And

644
00:34:10,036 --> 00:34:11,716
Speaker 1: I thought that this was just kind of an accident

645
00:34:11,756 --> 00:34:13,756
Speaker 1: of my little burnout story. But you wanted to use

646
00:34:13,796 --> 00:34:16,436
Speaker 1: the story to explain to deep principles about the importance

647
00:34:16,436 --> 00:34:18,556
Speaker 1: of place for shifting your emotions.

648
00:34:18,756 --> 00:34:21,276
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's such a powerful story. And you know,

649
00:34:21,356 --> 00:34:27,436
Speaker 2: our spaces, the spaces around us often impact multiple shifters

650
00:34:27,476 --> 00:34:30,116
Speaker 2: that exist inside us, So, like you were talking about,

651
00:34:30,556 --> 00:34:35,036
Speaker 2: they certainly impact our attention, like what we're exposed to,

652
00:34:35,316 --> 00:34:38,596
Speaker 2: and by impacting what we're exposed to. They have implications

653
00:34:38,596 --> 00:34:42,196
Speaker 2: for our senses. We also form connections to places, and

654
00:34:42,236 --> 00:34:44,236
Speaker 2: what really stood out to me about your story when

655
00:34:44,236 --> 00:34:47,396
Speaker 2: I think about it, is when you moved back to Cambridge.

656
00:34:47,396 --> 00:34:51,676
Speaker 2: Cambridge had these warm associations attached to it. This is

657
00:34:51,676 --> 00:34:54,876
Speaker 2: where you were a student and you had these formative experiences.

658
00:34:55,196 --> 00:34:57,756
Speaker 2: And what we've learned in the science that I think

659
00:34:57,996 --> 00:35:01,156
Speaker 2: doesn't get as much attention as it deserves, is we

660
00:35:01,276 --> 00:35:04,956
Speaker 2: routinely form attachments to places in a way that is

661
00:35:04,956 --> 00:35:07,596
Speaker 2: similar to the way we form attachment to people to

662
00:35:07,636 --> 00:35:10,516
Speaker 2: other people. So we talk a lot about attachment to

663
00:35:10,556 --> 00:35:13,996
Speaker 2: other individuals in our lives, attachment figures who when were

664
00:35:14,036 --> 00:35:16,516
Speaker 2: in the presence of those figures. This provides us with

665
00:35:16,596 --> 00:35:21,836
Speaker 2: a sense of safety and support, parents, caretakers, partners, friends. Well,

666
00:35:22,276 --> 00:35:25,516
Speaker 2: we also form attachments to places, and when you're enough

667
00:35:25,756 --> 00:35:28,756
Speaker 2: in the presence of a place that you are positively

668
00:35:28,796 --> 00:35:32,796
Speaker 2: attached to, that likewise gives you this sense of safety

669
00:35:32,836 --> 00:35:35,316
Speaker 2: and security. I'll bring this back to my kids when

670
00:35:35,916 --> 00:35:38,156
Speaker 2: it's funny when you learn new material and you filter

671
00:35:38,236 --> 00:35:40,796
Speaker 2: it through the lens of your own experiences. I remember

672
00:35:40,836 --> 00:35:42,876
Speaker 2: when my kids were upset, they always used to do

673
00:35:42,916 --> 00:35:44,756
Speaker 2: this curious thing when they were little and just they

674
00:35:44,836 --> 00:35:47,396
Speaker 2: just wanted to go home, and when we got home,

675
00:35:47,396 --> 00:35:49,516
Speaker 2: they'd want to go in their room, and that just

676
00:35:49,596 --> 00:35:51,796
Speaker 2: provided them with a sense of security. And so it

677
00:35:51,836 --> 00:35:53,796
Speaker 2: turns out that's not just true of little kids, it's

678
00:35:53,796 --> 00:35:56,516
Speaker 2: true of all of us. And I think the invitation

679
00:35:56,716 --> 00:36:00,476
Speaker 2: that extends to us is to do some thinking ahead

680
00:36:00,476 --> 00:36:04,236
Speaker 2: of time before the triggers ignite, Like what are the

681
00:36:04,356 --> 00:36:09,156
Speaker 2: spaces in our lives that have those restorative properties that

682
00:36:09,196 --> 00:36:12,036
Speaker 2: make us feel safe? In supert I have several of

683
00:36:12,076 --> 00:36:15,716
Speaker 2: these positive spaces located around ann Arbor that I've like

684
00:36:15,836 --> 00:36:19,116
Speaker 2: marked on a map figuratively, and I know where to go.

685
00:36:19,356 --> 00:36:21,156
Speaker 2: It's like in the movies, you know where there's a

686
00:36:21,196 --> 00:36:23,796
Speaker 2: safe house for the ci agent when they need to

687
00:36:23,916 --> 00:36:26,396
Speaker 2: escape people who are getting going after them. Like, I've

688
00:36:26,396 --> 00:36:30,556
Speaker 2: got my safe spots. There's the law school quadrangle here,

689
00:36:30,596 --> 00:36:34,596
Speaker 2: which is just this magnificently beautiful space. There's the arboretum,

690
00:36:34,756 --> 00:36:37,436
Speaker 2: there's my home. Those are places I can go to

691
00:36:37,836 --> 00:36:41,676
Speaker 2: and they are managing my emotions without me having to

692
00:36:41,716 --> 00:36:44,276
Speaker 2: do anything by just being in that place.

693
00:36:44,676 --> 00:36:46,756
Speaker 1: But you've also talked about ways that we can manage

694
00:36:46,796 --> 00:36:49,876
Speaker 1: our spaces in more local ways, right, Like my situation

695
00:36:49,996 --> 00:36:52,756
Speaker 1: is a case where I literally move cities. Not everybody

696
00:36:52,836 --> 00:36:55,516
Speaker 1: can do that. You're talking about kind of within your town,

697
00:36:55,596 --> 00:36:58,316
Speaker 1: specific spaces you can go to. You've talked about how

698
00:36:58,316 --> 00:37:00,916
Speaker 1: we can take our local spaces and make them more

699
00:37:00,996 --> 00:37:02,476
Speaker 1: emotionally regulatory.

700
00:37:02,476 --> 00:37:04,356
Speaker 2: How do we do that? Yeah, this is I think

701
00:37:04,396 --> 00:37:08,636
Speaker 2: a really important point because changing your space is a

702
00:37:08,716 --> 00:37:12,676
Speaker 2: luxury we don't always have the ability to engage in.

703
00:37:12,956 --> 00:37:14,876
Speaker 2: You can think of that as like a macro way

704
00:37:15,316 --> 00:37:17,516
Speaker 2: of moving our emotions around via spaces. But then there's

705
00:37:17,516 --> 00:37:19,476
Speaker 2: a more microway you could do this. There's a way

706
00:37:19,476 --> 00:37:22,556
Speaker 2: of harnessing your immediate spaces, and there are lots of

707
00:37:22,596 --> 00:37:24,676
Speaker 2: things you could do here. There's research that we and

708
00:37:24,756 --> 00:37:28,636
Speaker 2: others have done where you put pictures of attachment figures

709
00:37:28,796 --> 00:37:31,796
Speaker 2: in your surroundings, so pictures of love ones. Research shows

710
00:37:31,796 --> 00:37:34,316
Speaker 2: that when you glance at a picture of a loved

711
00:37:34,316 --> 00:37:37,916
Speaker 2: one after thinking about something negative, it speeds the pace

712
00:37:37,956 --> 00:37:42,996
Speaker 2: at which you recover from emotional turbulence. Right. So you know,

713
00:37:43,076 --> 00:37:45,956
Speaker 2: after I did that research, I went on a picture

714
00:37:46,036 --> 00:37:48,436
Speaker 2: frame shopping spree and I put pictures of loved ones

715
00:37:48,476 --> 00:37:51,956
Speaker 2: all around my offices, So that's putting something new in

716
00:37:51,996 --> 00:37:54,156
Speaker 2: your environment to push you in a direction where you

717
00:37:54,156 --> 00:37:56,676
Speaker 2: want to go. Another example of that would be plants.

718
00:37:56,916 --> 00:38:01,276
Speaker 2: We know that looking at images of green things, so

719
00:38:01,436 --> 00:38:05,596
Speaker 2: plants and trees, flowers. This also has restorative calming effects,

720
00:38:05,596 --> 00:38:08,156
Speaker 2: so you can imagine decorating your space in that way.

721
00:38:08,356 --> 00:38:11,796
Speaker 2: You can also modify your space so by removing things

722
00:38:12,076 --> 00:38:14,956
Speaker 2: that are pushing your emotions in the wrong direction. Lots

723
00:38:14,956 --> 00:38:17,556
Speaker 2: of ways you could do this. We're talking right now

724
00:38:17,636 --> 00:38:20,916
Speaker 2: and I have my cell phone turned over, so I've

725
00:38:20,956 --> 00:38:24,116
Speaker 2: now modified my space to reduce a distractor which would

726
00:38:24,196 --> 00:38:26,676
Speaker 2: get in the way of our conversation. I tell a

727
00:38:26,676 --> 00:38:28,876
Speaker 2: story in the book True Story. This is true. I've

728
00:38:28,876 --> 00:38:32,156
Speaker 2: done this many times. I tend to overorder pizza whenever

729
00:38:32,196 --> 00:38:34,516
Speaker 2: we have people over to watch football, and I know

730
00:38:34,996 --> 00:38:37,756
Speaker 2: that if I don't give every single size of pizza

731
00:38:37,876 --> 00:38:41,596
Speaker 2: away before our friends leave the house, I will come

732
00:38:41,676 --> 00:38:45,076
Speaker 2: down to the kitchen at between ten and twelve at

733
00:38:45,196 --> 00:38:48,116
Speaker 2: night and I will eat the cold pizza and I

734
00:38:48,156 --> 00:38:51,836
Speaker 2: will have such a positive emotional experience while doing so

735
00:38:52,436 --> 00:38:55,956
Speaker 2: that will then end the second I finished consuming it,

736
00:38:56,076 --> 00:38:57,516
Speaker 2: and then I won't be able to sleep at night.

737
00:38:57,676 --> 00:39:00,716
Speaker 2: So the solution, I'm modifying my space to remove that

738
00:39:01,396 --> 00:39:05,476
Speaker 2: as a distractor, as a temptation. So you can modify

739
00:39:05,556 --> 00:39:10,556
Speaker 2: your spaces and really architect your surroundings to help you

740
00:39:10,636 --> 00:39:13,076
Speaker 2: achieve the emotions that you want to achieve.

741
00:39:13,316 --> 00:39:15,956
Speaker 1: And that gets us to the final shifter that we'll

742
00:39:15,956 --> 00:39:18,876
Speaker 1: talk about in this episode, which is something that exists

743
00:39:18,916 --> 00:39:20,796
Speaker 1: in our space and definitely something that I tried to

744
00:39:20,796 --> 00:39:23,956
Speaker 1: do when I physically move spaces, which is I wanted

745
00:39:23,956 --> 00:39:27,436
Speaker 1: to surround myself with different people. Our relationships can also

746
00:39:27,516 --> 00:39:31,076
Speaker 1: be big shifters. Explain this idea of emotional contagion and

747
00:39:31,116 --> 00:39:33,436
Speaker 1: why it could be a powerful tool for changing our

748
00:39:33,476 --> 00:39:34,436
Speaker 1: emotions around.

749
00:39:34,556 --> 00:39:37,876
Speaker 2: So other people. We are a social species, and our

750
00:39:37,916 --> 00:39:44,156
Speaker 2: emotions are powerfully calibrated against other people and how we

751
00:39:44,196 --> 00:39:46,556
Speaker 2: think about them and interact with them, and emotional contagion

752
00:39:46,636 --> 00:39:49,556
Speaker 2: is a great example of this. There's lots of research

753
00:39:49,676 --> 00:39:52,956
Speaker 2: that shows that when we are not sure of how

754
00:39:52,996 --> 00:39:56,996
Speaker 2: to respond in a given situation, we reference other people

755
00:39:57,036 --> 00:40:00,396
Speaker 2: because other people are a rich source of information. Now

756
00:40:00,996 --> 00:40:05,036
Speaker 2: that can push us in good or bad directions, right, So,

757
00:40:05,596 --> 00:40:08,596
Speaker 2: you know, one frowning face in a room can quickly

758
00:40:08,676 --> 00:40:13,036
Speaker 2: lead to any other frowning faces, smile and joy can

759
00:40:13,116 --> 00:40:16,596
Speaker 2: spread as well. I do this exercise often with groups

760
00:40:16,636 --> 00:40:20,556
Speaker 2: when I lead workshops to demonstrate the power of emotional contagion,

761
00:40:20,596 --> 00:40:23,636
Speaker 2: where I break people up into groups. Then I ask

762
00:40:23,916 --> 00:40:27,236
Speaker 2: each member of the group to volunteer a leader, and

763
00:40:27,316 --> 00:40:29,036
Speaker 2: so I take the leaders out and then I count

764
00:40:29,076 --> 00:40:31,836
Speaker 2: off one two one two one two and as eara Ones,

765
00:40:31,876 --> 00:40:33,396
Speaker 2: I'm going to go back into the room with you

766
00:40:33,476 --> 00:40:34,956
Speaker 2: in a few minutes. I'm gonna give you a really

767
00:40:34,956 --> 00:40:37,116
Speaker 2: hard problem to solve. I want the ones to be

768
00:40:37,196 --> 00:40:41,276
Speaker 2: an ultra supportive cheerleading leader. And then I turn to

769
00:40:41,316 --> 00:40:43,476
Speaker 2: the twos. They kind of know what's coming. They're kind

770
00:40:43,476 --> 00:40:47,156
Speaker 2: of nervously laughing, and as Arai two's you know who

771
00:40:47,156 --> 00:40:48,756
Speaker 2: I want you to be. I want you to be

772
00:40:48,796 --> 00:40:51,716
Speaker 2: the A holes. I want you to be, stoic, disapproving,

773
00:40:52,276 --> 00:40:55,356
Speaker 2: don't give much positive reinforcement. I assure them that I

774
00:40:55,396 --> 00:40:58,636
Speaker 2: will debrief everyone the moment the exercise is over, and

775
00:40:58,716 --> 00:41:00,956
Speaker 2: then they go back into the rooms. They work on

776
00:41:00,996 --> 00:41:04,556
Speaker 2: this problem, and the leaders follow the orders I've given them.

777
00:41:04,676 --> 00:41:08,476
Speaker 2: It is remarkable, Lourie, to see how these different groups

778
00:41:08,596 --> 00:41:11,716
Speaker 2: respond with than seconds, the groups of the positive leaders

779
00:41:12,196 --> 00:41:16,676
Speaker 2: they're brainstorming out loud, they're giggling, they're laughing, they're having fun.

780
00:41:16,916 --> 00:41:19,676
Speaker 2: In the other groups like no one is talking, they're

781
00:41:19,756 --> 00:41:22,516
Speaker 2: just looking at the piece of paper, right because the

782
00:41:22,516 --> 00:41:24,796
Speaker 2: emotion of the leader that has then spread throughout the

783
00:41:24,836 --> 00:41:27,156
Speaker 2: rest of the group. We see this, of course playing

784
00:41:27,196 --> 00:41:30,676
Speaker 2: out not just in person to person context. It happens

785
00:41:30,716 --> 00:41:33,476
Speaker 2: on social media a lot in ways that can have

786
00:41:33,796 --> 00:41:38,876
Speaker 2: really consequential effects. So this is often how moral outrage spreads.

787
00:41:39,076 --> 00:41:41,996
Speaker 2: There are also instances and once you see positivity spreading

788
00:41:41,996 --> 00:41:45,556
Speaker 2: within networks too, So simply being aware of this, I

789
00:41:45,596 --> 00:41:49,516
Speaker 2: think can be very important for all of us. Number One,

790
00:41:49,556 --> 00:41:52,396
Speaker 2: if you are in a leadership point of view, whether

791
00:41:52,436 --> 00:41:54,756
Speaker 2: it be in an organization, in a friend group, and

792
00:41:54,796 --> 00:41:59,556
Speaker 2: a family, recognize that the emotional tone that you bring

793
00:41:59,996 --> 00:42:05,636
Speaker 2: to a situation directly impacts other people, often without any

794
00:42:05,716 --> 00:42:08,716
Speaker 2: explicit direction. If you're a leader, you might also want

795
00:42:08,756 --> 00:42:10,796
Speaker 2: to be away of the fact that if you want

796
00:42:10,796 --> 00:42:12,996
Speaker 2: this group to be pushing in a particular direction, and

797
00:42:13,036 --> 00:42:16,116
Speaker 2: there's one voice or one person there that maybe isn't

798
00:42:16,156 --> 00:42:18,556
Speaker 2: abiding by that, you want to be sensitive to that

799
00:42:18,676 --> 00:42:20,996
Speaker 2: too and nip that reaction in the blood right away.

800
00:42:21,156 --> 00:42:24,116
Speaker 2: But emotional contagion is a really powerful lustration of how

801
00:42:24,196 --> 00:42:25,316
Speaker 2: other people can affect us.

802
00:42:25,596 --> 00:42:28,116
Speaker 1: It also really gives us an opportunity. You know, sometimes

803
00:42:28,116 --> 00:42:31,156
Speaker 1: we can think about emotional contagion as this terrible thing, like, oh,

804
00:42:31,156 --> 00:42:33,316
Speaker 1: I'm just at the mercy of everybody's emotions on my

805
00:42:33,356 --> 00:42:36,316
Speaker 1: team or whatever. But I think you also can recognize

806
00:42:36,316 --> 00:42:39,316
Speaker 1: that that's an opportunity. You can see the emotions that

807
00:42:39,356 --> 00:42:41,836
Speaker 1: you really want to see in the group, like through

808
00:42:41,836 --> 00:42:44,036
Speaker 1: your own actions. And in some ways, this is what

809
00:42:44,036 --> 00:42:45,716
Speaker 1: you were doing as the leader of your family with

810
00:42:45,756 --> 00:42:48,076
Speaker 1: your daughter in the car with Don't Stop Believing, right,

811
00:42:48,116 --> 00:42:49,836
Speaker 1: You could have kind of caught her a glom emotion

812
00:42:49,916 --> 00:42:52,756
Speaker 1: and felt bad, But you're like, non, if I shift myself,

813
00:42:53,076 --> 00:42:55,316
Speaker 1: it's going to shift her too. And I think this

814
00:42:55,396 --> 00:42:57,876
Speaker 1: is the real opportunities that we can use ourselves as

815
00:42:57,916 --> 00:43:00,836
Speaker 1: these pivot points to not to shift our own emotions,

816
00:43:00,876 --> 00:43:03,476
Speaker 1: but emotionally regulate for the people we care about too.

817
00:43:04,036 --> 00:43:07,516
Speaker 2: Couldn't agree more. And you know that a really profound

818
00:43:07,556 --> 00:43:10,036
Speaker 2: and eloquent way of summarizing saying how a lot of

819
00:43:10,036 --> 00:43:13,916
Speaker 2: these shifters come together, because they have implications for not

820
00:43:13,956 --> 00:43:16,556
Speaker 2: only the way you manage your own life, but how

821
00:43:16,596 --> 00:43:20,076
Speaker 2: you affect those around you, and ideally you're motivated to

822
00:43:20,116 --> 00:43:23,356
Speaker 2: affect those around you in a positive direction, but you

823
00:43:23,396 --> 00:43:27,996
Speaker 2: can also muster or out even further. Because our understanding

824
00:43:28,076 --> 00:43:31,476
Speaker 2: of how these principles of emotion regulation work, they also

825
00:43:31,516 --> 00:43:34,796
Speaker 2: have the opportunity to shape the cultures of the groups

826
00:43:34,796 --> 00:43:36,876
Speaker 2: that we belong to. So, you know, I've belonged to

827
00:43:36,916 --> 00:43:40,356
Speaker 2: a bunch of different groups characterized by different cultures, and

828
00:43:40,756 --> 00:43:44,676
Speaker 2: I'm constantly trying to be explicit about the values and

829
00:43:44,716 --> 00:43:48,316
Speaker 2: beliefs I have about emotion and emotion regulation. These are

830
00:43:48,396 --> 00:43:51,116
Speaker 2: states of being that I think are really important, and

831
00:43:51,156 --> 00:43:53,476
Speaker 2: I think we need to spend more time investing in

832
00:43:53,556 --> 00:43:57,116
Speaker 2: because doing so is going to help people think and

833
00:43:57,156 --> 00:43:59,236
Speaker 2: perform more effectively at work. It's going to improve the

834
00:43:59,276 --> 00:44:01,836
Speaker 2: quality of relationships and their health. So I'm being really

835
00:44:01,836 --> 00:44:04,716
Speaker 2: clear about what my beliefs are for this culture, and

836
00:44:04,996 --> 00:44:07,916
Speaker 2: I'm backing that up. I'm not just saying that, I'm

837
00:44:07,956 --> 00:44:11,796
Speaker 2: interacting with folks in ways that establish norms that reinforce

838
00:44:11,916 --> 00:44:15,156
Speaker 2: my values and beliefs, and I'm even giving people some

839
00:44:15,356 --> 00:44:19,596
Speaker 2: tools to try to hone these these abilities to shift.

840
00:44:19,636 --> 00:44:23,116
Speaker 2: And so that's the way you go from knowing about something,

841
00:44:23,236 --> 00:44:25,756
Speaker 2: to try it and to actually shift a culture around

842
00:44:25,796 --> 00:44:28,796
Speaker 2: a topic, which I think is a really important challenge

843
00:44:28,836 --> 00:44:31,156
Speaker 2: we all we all have in front of us.

844
00:44:31,236 --> 00:44:33,316
Speaker 1: It's great, we've come a long way from holes in

845
00:44:33,316 --> 00:44:35,396
Speaker 1: the head, I think, which is good.

846
00:44:35,716 --> 00:44:39,196
Speaker 2: We thankfully have come a very long way from putting

847
00:44:39,196 --> 00:44:41,396
Speaker 2: holes in our head. And I think, you know, look,

848
00:44:41,436 --> 00:44:43,316
Speaker 2: there's there's a lot more we have to learn, but

849
00:44:43,836 --> 00:44:47,396
Speaker 2: we have a mass, a pretty compelling set of insights

850
00:44:47,556 --> 00:44:52,036
Speaker 2: regarding how we manage this wacky, you know thing called

851
00:44:52,036 --> 00:44:54,916
Speaker 2: emotions and our emotional life. And I think we'd all

852
00:44:54,916 --> 00:44:58,516
Speaker 2: be a whole lot better off informing ourselves of what

853
00:44:58,596 --> 00:45:00,996
Speaker 2: we've learned and using it to help us live the

854
00:45:01,036 --> 00:45:02,116
Speaker 2: emotional lives we want to live.

855
00:45:03,876 --> 00:45:06,476
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful that Ethan and so many other scientists

856
00:45:06,556 --> 00:45:09,116
Speaker 1: have given us practical tools for regulating our big field

857
00:45:09,796 --> 00:45:12,916
Speaker 1: between work stress and life stress, not to mention politics.

858
00:45:12,916 --> 00:45:15,436
Speaker 1: In the state of the planet, I experienced big feelings

859
00:45:15,476 --> 00:45:17,636
Speaker 1: like fear, anxiety, and overwhelm a lot.

860
00:45:17,676 --> 00:45:18,276
Speaker 2: These days.

861
00:45:18,676 --> 00:45:21,196
Speaker 1: I'm so happy I've gotten Ethan's tips for helping me

862
00:45:21,236 --> 00:45:23,996
Speaker 1: find peace. They're much better than having someone drill a

863
00:45:23,996 --> 00:45:27,196
Speaker 1: hole in my head. Let's quickly recap first up, prepare

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00:45:27,236 --> 00:45:30,716
Speaker 1: a big emotions playlist. If you're scared or sad, dispel

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00:45:30,796 --> 00:45:34,076
Speaker 1: that mood by hitting play on some feel good music. Personally,

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00:45:34,156 --> 00:45:36,596
Speaker 1: I think some dad rock like Journey is definitely the

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00:45:36,596 --> 00:45:40,036
Speaker 1: way to go. Ethan's second tip divert your attention. There

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00:45:40,076 --> 00:45:42,556
Speaker 1: are plenty of quick ways to distract yourself away from

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Speaker 1: big emotions. Try going for a run or my favorite

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Speaker 1: solving the word. Tip three is to take a step

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00:45:48,516 --> 00:45:51,276
Speaker 1: back and view your problems as a stranger might see them.

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Speaker 1: Are things actually so bleak? What would a coach or

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Speaker 1: mentor say about what you should do? The fourth way

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00:45:56,876 --> 00:45:59,356
Speaker 1: to regulate your emotions is to get some physical distance

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00:45:59,396 --> 00:46:02,276
Speaker 1: from what's upsetting you. Get out of your home or workplace.

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Speaker 1: Remember that escaping the environment that's stressing you out can work.

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Speaker 1: Wonders and Ethan's final strategy to tame big feelings is

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Speaker 1: to surround yourself with positive people. Just like getting away

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00:46:12,516 --> 00:46:15,276
Speaker 1: from a location that's upsetting you, we can benefit by

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00:46:15,276 --> 00:46:17,556
Speaker 1: taking a break from the friends. Co workers are loved

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00:46:17,556 --> 00:46:20,636
Speaker 1: ones who are spiking our negative emotions. But above all,

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00:46:20,756 --> 00:46:23,276
Speaker 1: a metatip, if you will, is to remember that your

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00:46:23,276 --> 00:46:26,716
Speaker 1: emotions are functional. If you're feeling lonely, or if your

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00:46:26,716 --> 00:46:29,476
Speaker 1: boss is something that upsets you, or if a politician

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00:46:29,556 --> 00:46:32,316
Speaker 1: enacts some policy that gets you read with anger, that's

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00:46:32,316 --> 00:46:34,676
Speaker 1: a signal for you to take action. But once you've

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00:46:34,676 --> 00:46:36,716
Speaker 1: figured out what your big feeling is there to teach you,

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00:46:37,076 --> 00:46:39,796
Speaker 1: that big feeling has done its job, and it's time

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00:46:39,836 --> 00:46:42,596
Speaker 1: for that big feeling to move on. It's also time

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Speaker 1: for our how to season to move on. Next up,

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00:46:45,076 --> 00:46:47,996
Speaker 1: we'll be looking at something that's super useful in small doses,

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00:46:48,156 --> 00:46:50,596
Speaker 1: but can prove very harmful when it's allowed to rule

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00:46:50,596 --> 00:46:54,396
Speaker 1: our lives. We'll be exploring how to fight stress. That's

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Speaker 1: next time on the Happiness Lab with me Doctor Laurie

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Speaker 1: Santos