WEBVTT - The Final Round with Malcolm Gladwell and Alonzo Bodden 0:00:15.316 --> 0:00:23.196 Pushkin, this American, this American. All right, we got cheap 0:00:23.276 --> 0:00:28.156 gas and we're gonna burn it. It's Lee Greenwood riding 0:00:28.156 --> 0:00:33.156 a bald ego, you know, into some like a fireworks finale. 0:00:35.076 --> 0:00:37.796 For the final championship round of our Car of the 0:00:37.876 --> 0:00:41.156 Year tournament, We've brought together one of my favorite car 0:00:41.156 --> 0:00:45.236 guy comedians, Alonzo Boden, who you might know from NPRS 0:00:45.316 --> 0:00:49.196 Wait Weight, Don't tell Me? And my favorite car guy 0:00:49.276 --> 0:00:53.476 public intellectual, Malcolm Gladwell, who you know from his books, 0:00:53.956 --> 0:00:57.916 his podcasts and his unofficial co host status on this show. 0:00:59.076 --> 0:01:01.996 The task in front of us is daunting. How to 0:01:02.036 --> 0:01:05.516 pick a winner from this random grouping of cars. What 0:01:05.636 --> 0:01:09.476 criteria can we use that applies across these four athlete 0:01:09.556 --> 0:01:15.636 different segments. Well, keep listening. Malcolm, of course has the answer. 0:01:16.756 --> 0:01:18.036 I'm going to get out of the way here and 0:01:18.116 --> 0:01:20.716 let the three of us determine once and for all 0:01:21.356 --> 0:01:25.796 the best car I drove this year. I'm Eddie Alterman, 0:01:26.116 --> 0:01:32.996 and this is Car Show. We have our list of semifinalists. 0:01:33.436 --> 0:01:37.636 We have the Chevrolet Corvette zero six. We have the 0:01:37.716 --> 0:01:42.876 Cadillac CT five V Black Wing. We have the Hyundai 0:01:43.036 --> 0:01:47.916 Ionic five as our EV representative and then as our 0:01:48.076 --> 0:01:55.396 SUV semifinalists, the Genesis GV seventy so two from Detroit, 0:01:55.996 --> 0:01:59.516 two from Korea. And if you ask me fifteen years ago, 0:01:59.596 --> 0:02:03.116 that's a mere two product cycles ago whether there would 0:02:03.156 --> 0:02:07.036 be two Korean cars and two domestics on this list. 0:02:07.196 --> 0:02:11.476 I just said, you're smoking angel dust. But here we are. 0:02:12.196 --> 0:02:13.396 What do you guys think? How do you want to 0:02:13.436 --> 0:02:16.316 jump into this? I'll start with cars I can fit in, 0:02:16.356 --> 0:02:21.836 which makes the Corvette really tough. So give me the dimensions. 0:02:21.876 --> 0:02:26.396 So I've been in the new Corvette and it's it's 0:02:26.476 --> 0:02:29.996 kind of like two tunnels with a high center. I mean, 0:02:30.036 --> 0:02:32.276 I got wide shoulders, so it is kind of a 0:02:32.316 --> 0:02:36.836 snug fit. But as car, it's phenomenal. You know, it's 0:02:36.836 --> 0:02:40.036 the only one you talk about punching above your weight class. 0:02:40.076 --> 0:02:44.956 Everything it competes with costs at least twice as much. Yeah. Yeah, 0:02:44.996 --> 0:02:48.116 I actually want to spend a lot of time on 0:02:48.116 --> 0:02:51.356 that very point. But before we do that, I want 0:02:51.356 --> 0:02:55.756 to eliminate one right off that the conversation. Let's see 0:02:55.756 --> 0:02:57.716 if we could agree on the one car of these 0:02:57.756 --> 0:03:00.756 four that doesn't belong. Okay, and I think it's obvious 0:03:01.756 --> 0:03:05.516 it's the Genesis. Really, why, I don't understand why would 0:03:05.596 --> 0:03:11.356 we celebrate just another well put together, overpowered luxury suv 0:03:11.596 --> 0:03:15.636 like it's another version of something that portion vented ten 0:03:15.716 --> 0:03:17.876 fifteen years ago. I see the point, but I think 0:03:17.876 --> 0:03:24.196 the exceptionalism comes from just being so perfectly suited to 0:03:24.356 --> 0:03:27.356 that market. Well. I tend to agree with Malcolm here. 0:03:27.836 --> 0:03:31.636 My issue with Genesis is they make perfect copies of 0:03:31.716 --> 0:03:35.036 other cars. Yeah. I mean, when you're talking about car 0:03:35.196 --> 0:03:37.636 a year, you want something special. So if you want 0:03:37.636 --> 0:03:41.236 it to pick an suv to be special, then I 0:03:41.276 --> 0:03:45.196 think you have to take a turbo Cayenne or an 0:03:45.356 --> 0:03:48.716 X five M, something ridiculous and over the top, you know, 0:03:48.876 --> 0:03:53.156 six hundred horsepower, etc. Like an suv that there's no 0:03:53.236 --> 0:03:56.596 reason for it to exist. Yes, the Genesis is just 0:03:57.636 --> 0:04:01.796 as he said, it's a well executed suv, but it's 0:04:01.876 --> 0:04:05.836 not a special car. Yeah. Also, can I bring up 0:04:05.876 --> 0:04:08.756 Tiger Woods here? Yeah, isn't this the one that nearly 0:04:08.796 --> 0:04:11.036 didn't Tiger? I mean, come on, it's got like a 0:04:11.036 --> 0:04:13.716 shadow of fave Tiger. No, that was the gv ab 0:04:14.396 --> 0:04:17.996 Oh that was a gv Adio. Yeah, Malcolm, that that's 0:04:18.036 --> 0:04:21.236 pretty much anything Tiger drives other than a golf club. 0:04:21.596 --> 0:04:26.036 If anyone who has millions of dollars should hire a 0:04:26.076 --> 0:04:29.156 professional driver, I think we can say it's Tiger Woods. 0:04:29.196 --> 0:04:32.396 He's just his record behind the wheel is just not 0:04:32.596 --> 0:04:36.036 I know, yeah, yeah, I thought about that. That is true. 0:04:36.556 --> 0:04:38.876 I think he can afford a driver at this point. Yeah, 0:04:38.916 --> 0:04:41.756 I don't know. I'm with Alonso. Like, if it was 0:04:41.916 --> 0:04:45.676 nuts in some really wonderful way, I love that. If 0:04:45.676 --> 0:04:48.396 it had no reason to exist other than to fulfill 0:04:48.396 --> 0:04:51.556 the fantasy of an engineer somewhere, then I would be 0:04:51.876 --> 0:04:55.156 all over it. But it's like another Jennifer Aniston romcong. 0:04:55.716 --> 0:04:59.036 I mean, you know what you're getting. It's really well produced. 0:04:59.796 --> 0:05:04.476 Like is your life really immeasurably improved by seeing the 0:05:04.556 --> 0:05:08.436 seventeenth you know, romcom where she thinks she's being left 0:05:08.436 --> 0:05:15.916 to the altar? Well, okay, taking the opposite position. There's 0:05:15.956 --> 0:05:18.516 so much value packed into this thing that for the 0:05:18.676 --> 0:05:23.116 average SUV person, this thing is like a Mercedes for 0:05:23.196 --> 0:05:25.916 half the money. It's one hundred thousand dollars interior in 0:05:25.996 --> 0:05:28.876 a fifty thousand dollars vehicle. It's probably going to be 0:05:29.396 --> 0:05:32.516 more trouble free and cheaper to keep on the road 0:05:32.516 --> 0:05:35.876 than any of the German makes you highlighted there, and 0:05:36.516 --> 0:05:40.556 this is their second SUV and Genesis wasn't even a 0:05:40.636 --> 0:05:43.876 brand fifteen years ago. And it's like way better than 0:05:44.036 --> 0:05:47.996 I think the Audie or the or even you know, 0:05:48.116 --> 0:05:51.076 the Mercedes in the BMW in some way. I'm gonna 0:05:51.116 --> 0:05:53.076 stop you right here, but I'm gonna tell you why 0:05:53.756 --> 0:05:57.196 your statement just eliminated that car. Okay, you use the 0:05:57.236 --> 0:06:00.316 word it's a great value. When you were a kid 0:06:00.316 --> 0:06:02.716 and you looked at cars and you dreamt of the 0:06:02.836 --> 0:06:05.596 car when you grow up, at no point did you say, man, 0:06:05.676 --> 0:06:07.476 I can't wait till I'm old enough to buy a 0:06:07.516 --> 0:06:11.156 great value. That's not the card a year the car 0:06:11.196 --> 0:06:13.596 of the year is. I want something excited. When you 0:06:13.636 --> 0:06:15.756 were a kid, you wanted to grow up to get 0:06:15.756 --> 0:06:18.556 a Corvette or if there was a Cadillac with five 0:06:18.636 --> 0:06:21.996 hundred horsepower like that didn't even exist back then. But 0:06:22.076 --> 0:06:25.956 that's an aspirational you want one of those. Nobody's like, man, 0:06:25.996 --> 0:06:31.356 if I could only get a great value, right, you know? 0:06:31.436 --> 0:06:34.356 I want to also Also, Eddie suddenly gotten religion, you 0:06:34.396 --> 0:06:35.476 know alone as I don't know if you know that 0:06:35.556 --> 0:06:38.156 Eddie and I have a beef that goes back how 0:06:38.196 --> 0:06:41.836 many years now, like ten years, ten years or more. 0:06:42.076 --> 0:06:43.596 I wrote a piece with The New Yorker where I 0:06:43.636 --> 0:06:47.556 took issue with a comparo that the car driver had 0:06:47.596 --> 0:06:55.516 done Porsche Cayman versus Lotus Elise versus Corvette. They compared 0:06:55.556 --> 0:06:58.316 these sweet cars, and the subject to price never came up. 0:06:58.316 --> 0:07:01.316 And my point was, the Corvette appears to be as 0:07:01.316 --> 0:07:04.916 good as the other two cars in every conceivable important respect. 0:07:05.156 --> 0:07:08.636 It is twenty grand cheaper on account for something. And 0:07:09.116 --> 0:07:11.836 and he was completely blind to this idea. And now 0:07:11.876 --> 0:07:14.236 all of a sudden he's turned around and he's talking. 0:07:14.356 --> 0:07:17.996 He sounds like Consumer Reports. Well, I might be able 0:07:18.036 --> 0:07:25.196 to extricate myself through some deft, you know, rationalizations and bullshittery. 0:07:25.796 --> 0:07:27.676 You've gone from the editor of Car and Driver to 0:07:27.676 --> 0:07:30.636 the editor of Consumer Reports. All you're concerned about is 0:07:30.676 --> 0:07:33.076 how far I can struct my suburban dollar, what how 0:07:33.236 --> 0:07:35.596 my tacy case. I keep my feet on the ground. 0:07:35.676 --> 0:07:38.876 I keep reaching for the stars from Malcolm. So the 0:07:38.956 --> 0:07:42.756 idea that you raised, Alonzo, that the Corvette is great 0:07:43.316 --> 0:07:45.756 based on you know, it's a third to half the 0:07:45.796 --> 0:07:51.036 price of Lamborghini Orican or you know Ferrari Fate or 0:07:51.076 --> 0:07:53.756 a Pista or something like that. I think value is 0:07:53.796 --> 0:07:56.516 part of the Corvette equation. But the Corvette is a 0:07:56.596 --> 0:08:00.476 still a high performance car. It's a supercar. As a 0:08:00.596 --> 0:08:04.876 side bonus, it costs less, but it's still unto itself. 0:08:04.916 --> 0:08:08.516 It's a supercar. That's the difference. The Genesis, it isn't 0:08:08.796 --> 0:08:11.836 a super suv. It's an suv. It's it's a nice 0:08:12.316 --> 0:08:17.476 luxury suv. The Corvette steps up to supercar level, and 0:08:17.556 --> 0:08:20.076 the fact that it costs less is like a bonus. 0:08:20.636 --> 0:08:24.356 You know, when I evaluate cars in the Corvette category. 0:08:24.956 --> 0:08:27.436 You know where I live in upstate New York, there's 0:08:27.436 --> 0:08:29.876 a lot of guys with a lot of money. On 0:08:29.876 --> 0:08:33.876 the weekends they take out their special automobile. I will 0:08:33.956 --> 0:08:39.396 driving into town on Saturday morning see ten amazing automobiles 0:08:39.436 --> 0:08:41.596 on a good day. There's a guy who lives when 0:08:41.676 --> 0:08:44.476 Naby who has a Lamborghini. Every time I see him 0:08:44.476 --> 0:08:48.276 as Lamborghini, my first thought is what a jazz? I mean? 0:08:48.316 --> 0:08:52.356 Come on, so you dropped whatever it was three on 0:08:52.436 --> 0:08:56.756 this thing which is basically undrivable, and you're only doing 0:08:56.756 --> 0:08:59.316 it because you have some kind of adolescent fantasy that 0:08:59.356 --> 0:09:02.356 you're fulfilling. At this point, when I see someone in 0:09:02.396 --> 0:09:05.796 a new Corvette, I don't think Jack has really now 0:09:06.196 --> 0:09:09.636 to follow up. At a Lotza's point, there's some element 0:09:09.796 --> 0:09:14.476 of discretion involved. There's a certain judiciousness. It's like, all right, 0:09:14.516 --> 0:09:18.556 I want a world class autobile. I could go all 0:09:18.556 --> 0:09:20.636 the way to one hundred percent and get a McLaren 0:09:21.396 --> 0:09:24.836 or it can go ninety five percent or ninety eight 0:09:24.876 --> 0:09:27.916 percent and get a Corvette and save myself two hundred grand. 0:09:28.276 --> 0:09:32.156 Who is it? That's an admirable position. Yeah, I see that. 0:09:32.236 --> 0:09:34.796 There's a nugget of rationality in there. And you're also 0:09:34.876 --> 0:09:37.436 saying like, yeah, I probably could have a three hundred 0:09:37.476 --> 0:09:39.876 thousand dollars car. You could have it, but you don't. 0:09:39.876 --> 0:09:42.796 You're more intentional about the Corvette zero six than you 0:09:42.836 --> 0:09:47.916 are about a Hurrican. The thing about like ferraris as 0:09:48.076 --> 0:09:52.716 distinct from Lamborghini's is the Ferrari guy he's planned his purchase, 0:09:52.836 --> 0:09:55.636 he's been fixated on, you know, with a four thirty 0:09:55.716 --> 0:09:58.196 spider for twenty years, and he wants to get he 0:09:58.236 --> 0:10:01.076 wants to get it, and he does and he keeps 0:10:01.116 --> 0:10:05.276 it forever. The Lamborghini guy falls into a bunch of money, 0:10:06.356 --> 0:10:08.516 buys his thank and he's dead in eighteen months or 0:10:08.556 --> 0:10:11.036 he's broken eighteen months, and it's just way more impulsive. 0:10:11.156 --> 0:10:14.436 Whenever I see a Lambeau in La, I'm like, if 0:10:14.436 --> 0:10:17.116 I'm dropping three hundred k in La, I'm going to 0:10:17.156 --> 0:10:19.516 get a Rolls Royce because I'm only sitting in traffic. 0:10:19.556 --> 0:10:23.356 I might as well be comfortable. Yeah, but again, getting 0:10:23.796 --> 0:10:25.996 back to our point about the Genesis. You notice the 0:10:26.036 --> 0:10:29.916 cars we're talking about are all exotic, aspirational cars, and 0:10:30.356 --> 0:10:33.596 nobody's feeling that about the Genesis. But Eddie, if we 0:10:33.636 --> 0:10:36.356 gave you, how about this, put it this way, All 0:10:36.396 --> 0:10:39.956 four of those cars are available to you tomorrow for free. 0:10:39.956 --> 0:10:41.596 You can pick one of the four for free for 0:10:41.676 --> 0:10:45.076 your own personal use. Which one are you picking? You're 0:10:45.076 --> 0:10:49.196 not picking the Genesis, no, no, Now, I will tell 0:10:49.236 --> 0:10:52.036 you that there are times definitely where I choose comfort, 0:10:52.476 --> 0:10:55.276 Like if I have a Genesis or a BRZ, I'm 0:10:55.316 --> 0:10:59.076 gonna probably go with the Genesis. But I'm sure there's 0:10:59.076 --> 0:11:01.676 gonna be if an M three is up on the board, 0:11:02.116 --> 0:11:05.036 that'll do. And I didn't even bring in the sex 0:11:05.036 --> 0:11:08.556 appeal factor because again that you know there is a 0:11:08.596 --> 0:11:12.036 sex appeal to these cars, and nobody's walking up. Hey baby, 0:11:12.276 --> 0:11:17.236 you know what kind of value I got here? But 0:11:17.396 --> 0:11:21.276 Malcolm's point is a great one that cars are about context, right, 0:11:21.716 --> 0:11:27.556 and a Corvette in the Hudson Valley has a kind 0:11:27.556 --> 0:11:31.596 of outsider cool factor to it, especially as Zo six. 0:11:32.116 --> 0:11:34.756 You know, we have this thing in Detroit called the 0:11:34.756 --> 0:11:39.596 Woodward Dream Cruise and it's basically just quarter mile runs 0:11:40.076 --> 0:11:42.796 all day long. You have gasers in there, you have 0:11:42.876 --> 0:11:46.476 hot rods, you have all this great domestic iron. Somebody 0:11:46.476 --> 0:11:49.596 shows up in a Lamborghini. They just look like a 0:11:49.596 --> 0:11:52.796 complete asshole, you know, like, what are you doing with 0:11:52.836 --> 0:11:54.956 that car going in a straight line. Yes it's got 0:11:54.996 --> 0:11:57.676 good quarter mile times, but you're just so out of place. 0:11:57.716 --> 0:12:00.596 It doesn't even look right. You want like big Impaua's, 0:12:00.756 --> 0:12:05.236 you want tea bucket forards. Those kinds of cars really 0:12:05.236 --> 0:12:08.716 fit in and Woodward and exotics just don't. But the 0:12:09.196 --> 0:12:14.276 but it can code switch, you know what I mean. 0:12:15.036 --> 0:12:19.436 It can be kind of everything to everybody in a 0:12:19.516 --> 0:12:23.436 really really cool way. It's not just the traditional The 0:12:23.476 --> 0:12:27.676 Corvette has a lot of baggage, you know, because of 0:12:27.916 --> 0:12:30.676 all the Corvette shows and guys in their lawn chairs, 0:12:30.916 --> 0:12:33.796 you know, rubbing them with diapers, and cars with chrome 0:12:33.836 --> 0:12:38.876 wheels and yellow cars with purple stripes. That's not what 0:12:38.996 --> 0:12:42.916 this new zero six is. This new Zeo six is 0:12:42.996 --> 0:12:47.356 every bit the international exotic right down to it's crazy 0:12:47.636 --> 0:12:53.396 naturally aspirated engine. I mean, there's kind of nothing like it. Yeah, 0:12:53.436 --> 0:12:56.156 but the way you know, I saw that Corvett's thinking 0:12:56.156 --> 0:12:57.916 of spinning off as a brand and coming out with 0:12:57.956 --> 0:13:01.316 an suv. If we had a Corvette SUV in this lineup, 0:13:01.396 --> 0:13:04.476 that would be my hands down winner. Really, Oh so 0:13:04.636 --> 0:13:07.356 you're four, You're four a Corvette suv? I am so? 0:13:08.116 --> 0:13:14.116 Are you? Who? Wait? Alonzo, Yeah, that would be that 0:13:14.156 --> 0:13:17.636 would be fun. I have to say, Eddie, if the 0:13:17.716 --> 0:13:21.396 new Corvette was not badged as a Corvette, it wouldn't 0:13:21.436 --> 0:13:23.836 fit in there either. It would be too exotic. And 0:13:23.876 --> 0:13:27.036 it's look, the reason it fits in is because of 0:13:27.076 --> 0:13:30.996 the name Corvette and the history you talked about is 0:13:31.036 --> 0:13:34.956 why it would be accepted amongst Detroit muscle. Otherwise it 0:13:34.996 --> 0:13:40.276 would look like another international, flashy exotic car and people 0:13:40.276 --> 0:13:43.076 would be like, nah, that doesn't belong here, because it 0:13:43.156 --> 0:13:46.036 certainly doesn't look like an American muscle car. Even though 0:13:46.036 --> 0:13:49.916 it has the ultimate American muscle engine, right, It's amazing 0:13:49.996 --> 0:13:52.516 how much they can keep working the small block and 0:13:52.596 --> 0:13:54.956 just keep getting it better and better and more and 0:13:54.996 --> 0:13:58.916 more power. But that car, if it wasn't badged as 0:13:58.916 --> 0:14:01.396 a Corvette, it would look as out of place as 0:14:01.396 --> 0:14:04.796 a Lamborghini or a Ferrari in a quarter mile. But 0:14:04.916 --> 0:14:07.276 it's that power of the brand that allows them to 0:14:07.796 --> 0:14:12.276 spin on. Yeah, yeah, totally. When we come back more 0:14:12.356 --> 0:14:25.196 with Malcolm Gladwell and Alonzo Boating, let's talking about the 0:14:25.196 --> 0:14:27.316 Black Wing because my first thought on long these lines 0:14:27.396 --> 0:14:30.156 is another car that would be a hands down winner 0:14:31.036 --> 0:14:33.956 in a study different configuration is if the Black Wing 0:14:33.996 --> 0:14:37.836 were a station wagon. Now you're talking like a real 0:14:37.916 --> 0:14:42.076 automotive journalist, Malcolm, the shooting brake version of the CT 0:14:42.276 --> 0:14:45.796 five Black Wing. I would mortgage my house to buy 0:14:45.796 --> 0:14:48.556 that car. I would buy that so fast. It's it's 0:14:48.596 --> 0:14:51.636 like that we achieve and also an extended version, like 0:14:51.636 --> 0:14:53.876 a shooting brake version of the CT five in the 0:14:53.916 --> 0:14:58.036 same way that the take on Grant Rismo Sports Grant 0:14:58.076 --> 0:15:01.116 Resmo and also the Panamera. Both of the shooting brake 0:15:01.196 --> 0:15:03.116 versions of those cars are infinitely better looking than the 0:15:03.596 --> 0:15:07.396 way more desirable, way more desirable. You know, in that form, 0:15:07.476 --> 0:15:11.596 that car becomes such a slam dunk. I mean you 0:15:11.636 --> 0:15:15.076 can legitimately, you know, justify it to your spouse, spice 0:15:15.356 --> 0:15:18.396 by pointing to its practicality. It's only six hundred and 0:15:18.436 --> 0:15:22.116 sixty eight horsepower. You don't mention that. You don't mention that. 0:15:24.396 --> 0:15:27.476 I think the problem they have with those it's the 0:15:27.516 --> 0:15:29.596 same that they had when they had the CTS V 0:15:29.756 --> 0:15:33.316 Wagon and all people like them in theory, but then 0:15:33.356 --> 0:15:36.716 they don't buy them, you know, I mean the Panamera 0:15:36.996 --> 0:15:40.636 that was it, the Grand Turismo. Yeah, yeah, it looks 0:15:40.676 --> 0:15:43.196 really cool, but but I don't see them on the road. 0:15:43.236 --> 0:15:46.436 People aren't buying them, and they're you know, they cost 0:15:46.436 --> 0:15:48.556 a lot. I mean I looked at it. It's it's 0:15:48.556 --> 0:15:53.396 an expensive car. So from a manufacturing standpoint, you know, 0:15:53.476 --> 0:15:56.836 getting back to Eddy value, that's what I'm gonna call 0:15:56.876 --> 0:16:01.116 you from that, just the Eddy value. You know, marketings 0:16:01.196 --> 0:16:04.276 like we should make it, but but sales is like, yeah, 0:16:04.316 --> 0:16:06.516 but we can't sell those, I would Eddie. Do you 0:16:06.556 --> 0:16:10.436 know the sales numbers on the the take on Shooting Brake, 0:16:10.676 --> 0:16:14.516 Is that one selling Well? No, it's a tiny percentage 0:16:14.876 --> 0:16:17.716 and it's a bit of a Haywell vehicle for the 0:16:17.756 --> 0:16:22.236 Tykon brand itself. Same with the Panamera. But you know, Alonzo, 0:16:22.316 --> 0:16:25.956 your point about you know, the ctfive v Wagon that 0:16:26.076 --> 0:16:28.436 nobody wanted when it came out. Now if you look 0:16:28.476 --> 0:16:30.476 on bring a trailer or something, they're going for a 0:16:30.596 --> 0:16:34.116 ridiculous amounts of money. Yeah, now now people want them. 0:16:34.156 --> 0:16:35.996 It's a lot of cars that people didn't want when 0:16:36.036 --> 0:16:38.516 they came out and then later they're like, oh, that's 0:16:38.516 --> 0:16:42.956 a phenomenal car. But as as you know, manufacturers don't 0:16:42.996 --> 0:16:45.876 look at it that way. Right, there is something about 0:16:45.956 --> 0:16:51.316 the United States and we love SUVs. We don't love wagons. Yeah, 0:16:51.356 --> 0:16:54.476 and that's what we love. We love SUVs. I mean 0:16:54.516 --> 0:16:58.996 you look at BMW right, they have high performance wagons. 0:16:59.596 --> 0:17:02.036 They don't sell any of many United States. They sell 0:17:02.116 --> 0:17:05.116 us the SUVs because that's what we that's what we 0:17:05.156 --> 0:17:08.396 tend to buy. Any white On the question of the 0:17:08.716 --> 0:17:12.196 of the C five Black Wing, you chose the CT 0:17:12.356 --> 0:17:14.796 five Black Wing and not the CT four Black Wing 0:17:14.876 --> 0:17:19.276 because well, I think the CT four is really brilliant too. 0:17:19.476 --> 0:17:21.876 And like I said, we have that M three in 0:17:21.916 --> 0:17:25.156 the office. But I'm driving the CT four. More than that, 0:17:25.876 --> 0:17:30.956 the CT five to me is sort of the the 0:17:31.156 --> 0:17:35.516 last will ever get of that format of the V 0:17:35.796 --> 0:17:40.156 eight sports sedan with a stick rear drive. It is 0:17:40.436 --> 0:17:45.556 so incredibly animalistic. The driving experience is much more vivid, 0:17:45.676 --> 0:17:47.996 I think, even than the four. The four is great, 0:17:48.476 --> 0:17:51.196 but the five really feels like that nine to eleven 0:17:52.156 --> 0:17:54.876 sedan that Alonso was talking about, which is the ideal, 0:17:54.916 --> 0:17:58.036 which is like, that's what your M five is, Malcolm. 0:17:58.076 --> 0:18:01.636 It's like really a sports car sort of in drag, 0:18:02.396 --> 0:18:06.596 and the five, to me, it's just more desirable. It's 0:18:06.716 --> 0:18:10.756 more more. It's like, Okay, how much horsepower can we 0:18:10.756 --> 0:18:14.036 throw out this thing and still make it totally totally livable, 0:18:14.236 --> 0:18:19.036 usable rides great. It's utterly sophisticated yet utterly animalistic at 0:18:19.036 --> 0:18:21.236 the same time. So to me, it just maxes out 0:18:21.316 --> 0:18:24.116 both of those things. Now I haven't driven the CT 0:18:24.156 --> 0:18:26.916 four and CT five, but I've owned the M three 0:18:27.156 --> 0:18:29.116 and now I have an M five, and I tell 0:18:29.156 --> 0:18:33.636 everyone the M five is more comfortable in comfort and 0:18:33.796 --> 0:18:36.636 more powerful in sport? Is it the same thing with 0:18:36.716 --> 0:18:40.636 the CT four and CT five, same deal? And what's 0:18:40.676 --> 0:18:43.756 so amazing about the CT five is the ride quality. 0:18:44.316 --> 0:18:47.556 CT four two, like the BMW's are very harsh now, 0:18:47.956 --> 0:18:52.876 they're like that macho stiffness, whereas like the CT five 0:18:52.956 --> 0:18:56.956 V Black Wing. To me, that's the car for Like, Okay, 0:18:56.996 --> 0:19:00.756 this guy is like a world renowned pediatrist. He's got 0:19:01.156 --> 0:19:05.876 a bomb ass collection of Hawaiian shirts, he listens to 0:19:05.916 --> 0:19:12.196 Steely Dan on homemade speakers. He's like a true enthusiast iconoclast. Yeah, 0:19:12.436 --> 0:19:17.236 and he wants the maximum of everything. So that's why 0:19:17.276 --> 0:19:19.796 I chose it. What's your take on it, Malcolm? You know, 0:19:20.156 --> 0:19:24.836 my daily driver is is a CT five V, so 0:19:24.996 --> 0:19:28.636 one step down obviously not a manual. Part of me 0:19:28.756 --> 0:19:34.356 has been jonesing to swap that for either the Black 0:19:34.356 --> 0:19:37.396 Wing five or the Black Wing four. Kind of like 0:19:37.476 --> 0:19:40.516 the Black Wing four conceptually more. I like the idea 0:19:40.556 --> 0:19:44.156 of all that power in a little tidy package, and 0:19:44.196 --> 0:19:46.036 I like the look of the four better than the five. 0:19:46.596 --> 0:19:48.756 If you make the Black Wing the car of the year, 0:19:49.156 --> 0:19:52.036 it's a middle finger to the entire automotive world, right, 0:19:52.036 --> 0:19:55.396 because you're saying everything you guys have been trying to 0:19:55.436 --> 0:19:59.276 transition to over the last five to ten years, we're 0:19:59.276 --> 0:20:03.836 not interested in. What we want is rear drive manual 0:20:03.996 --> 0:20:08.956 V eight old school, Like, you know, I'm increasingly convinced 0:20:08.956 --> 0:20:12.876 the cars peaked fifteen years ago and everything's been downhill 0:20:12.916 --> 0:20:17.196 ever since. And the CT five Blacking it's basically the 0:20:18.076 --> 0:20:20.676 better version of the fifteen year old car. The corvettees 0:20:20.796 --> 0:20:22.996 the same way the Corvette's like, you know, it's like 0:20:23.036 --> 0:20:26.796 a four or five eight specialty Ferrari from fifteen years ago, 0:20:26.916 --> 0:20:30.836 ten years ago. And this thing is like naturally aspirated 0:20:31.356 --> 0:20:35.316 M five although it's supercharged, but it's it's not turbo charged. 0:20:35.396 --> 0:20:39.436 It doesn't have, like, you know, that feel free steering 0:20:39.476 --> 0:20:42.436 that all these new cars have. It's not remote and 0:20:42.636 --> 0:20:46.396 distant and clinical feeling like a lot of new cars. 0:20:46.396 --> 0:20:49.396 It's got a ton of feel. And I think what 0:20:49.476 --> 0:20:53.156 the CT five V Black Wing says is that he 0:20:53.236 --> 0:20:55.356 can't just take a car out of the box and 0:20:55.956 --> 0:20:59.596 release it into the wild. You have to really work it. 0:20:59.676 --> 0:21:02.196 You have to to develop it and hone it and 0:21:02.236 --> 0:21:05.516 hone it and hone it. And that's what the engineers 0:21:05.556 --> 0:21:07.636 on the Black Wings, and I think on a lot 0:21:07.636 --> 0:21:10.996 of Cadillacs are doing now. It's just really making them 0:21:11.116 --> 0:21:14.596 very driver oriented, full of feedback, and to me, like, 0:21:16.196 --> 0:21:19.236 I want to sports adan that can really calm down 0:21:19.356 --> 0:21:22.156 when I wanted to calm down, and can really go 0:21:22.356 --> 0:21:24.676 hard when I want to like take an on ramp, 0:21:24.716 --> 0:21:27.356 burn off ramp, and I want to have that bandwidth 0:21:27.756 --> 0:21:30.276 that you know, I think only a car like the 0:21:30.316 --> 0:21:33.596 CT five V gives you. Well, I think the V 0:21:33.876 --> 0:21:39.036 series Cadillacs have always been like the ultimate version of 0:21:39.076 --> 0:21:41.396 a muscle car. Like you go back to the muscle 0:21:41.436 --> 0:21:44.436 cars of the sixties, right, and they had these giant 0:21:44.436 --> 0:21:47.076 engines and they had all this horsepower, but they were 0:21:47.116 --> 0:21:50.356 bad cars. They were just brutal and harsh. They didn't 0:21:50.356 --> 0:21:53.236 handle this. So now they're like, Okay, we're still gonna 0:21:53.276 --> 0:21:56.876 give you that feeling that you can only get from 0:21:56.916 --> 0:22:01.036 a big V eight rear drive like muscle American muscle. 0:22:01.676 --> 0:22:04.636 But like you were saying, Eddie, we're gonna make it comfortable, 0:22:04.756 --> 0:22:06.796 and we're gonna make it handle, and we're gonna put 0:22:06.836 --> 0:22:10.996 in all the modern conveniences. You know, my buddy Chris 0:22:10.996 --> 0:22:15.116 Titus hot rod lover, and we we had this argument 0:22:15.196 --> 0:22:17.556 long ago and he was talking about hot rods. I 0:22:17.636 --> 0:22:19.956 was like, you know what, I like my hot rod 0:22:19.996 --> 0:22:24.436 with heated seats and navigation. I'm okay with that, all right. 0:22:24.516 --> 0:22:27.036 I don't need it to, you know, to be as 0:22:27.076 --> 0:22:29.316 brutal as they were back in the day. So yeah, 0:22:29.356 --> 0:22:32.716 I'm I'm a big fan of the V series, all 0:22:32.756 --> 0:22:35.796 of them, all of the VS. It is what Malcolm said, 0:22:35.796 --> 0:22:38.116 it is the middle finger. Like, no, it's not even 0:22:38.156 --> 0:22:40.316 the middle thing, you know what. It's like this American, 0:22:40.596 --> 0:22:43.196 this American, all right, we got cheap gas and we're 0:22:43.236 --> 0:22:48.116 gonna burn it. It's Lee Greenwood riding a bald ego, 0:22:48.436 --> 0:22:53.356 you know, into some like a fireworks finale. It's funny 0:22:53.436 --> 0:22:55.076 to go back to what you said at the beginning, Eddie, 0:22:55.116 --> 0:22:57.956 about how fifteen years ago someone had told you that 0:22:57.996 --> 0:23:02.276 the four semi finalists were two Koreans and two Detroit products. 0:23:02.956 --> 0:23:07.276 What's interesting is how the position of BMW and Cadillac 0:23:07.316 --> 0:23:11.916 has flipped in that period, right, because fifteen years ago, 0:23:11.916 --> 0:23:16.076 it would have been two BMW's and probably two Japanese 0:23:16.076 --> 0:23:18.556 cars on that list, right, it would have you know, 0:23:18.556 --> 0:23:22.196 it would have been the the NSX, the M five, 0:23:23.236 --> 0:23:26.316 you know, like you guys in philipp Yeah, and like 0:23:26.436 --> 0:23:29.876 that that kind of like is super I mean, this 0:23:29.956 --> 0:23:33.396 is a separate and larger conversation. But that idea that 0:23:33.396 --> 0:23:38.236 an American brand has re emerged as the engineering paragon 0:23:39.236 --> 0:23:42.436 is super interesting, right, It's like it says something about 0:23:42.436 --> 0:23:46.076 the new direction that American manufacturing has gone in in 0:23:46.076 --> 0:23:49.556 that period, Like where where the Germans? I mean the 0:23:49.636 --> 0:23:54.316 Germans now we're you know, this is kind of another 0:23:54.516 --> 0:23:57.396 stunning blow to German pride. Right, they don't have a 0:23:57.396 --> 0:24:00.916 carn list. It's unbelievable. But my feeling isn't like they're 0:24:01.436 --> 0:24:04.436 They're like, there's something that's gotten very kind of fussy 0:24:04.476 --> 0:24:09.836 about German cars and this this kind of like almost 0:24:09.836 --> 0:24:13.316 cynical attempt to broaden and broaden and broaden their base 0:24:13.396 --> 0:24:18.676 and while pretending to hang on to their performance enthusiast roots, 0:24:19.036 --> 0:24:21.316 is getting really annoying. I have a different take on that. 0:24:21.516 --> 0:24:23.876 I have a different take on that. And my take 0:24:24.116 --> 0:24:27.756 is that with the German cars, it's a given we've 0:24:27.796 --> 0:24:31.436 become so used to the level of performance from BMW 0:24:31.476 --> 0:24:36.916 and Mercedes that it's not surprising that their cars are supercars. 0:24:37.236 --> 0:24:40.556 We're not surprised at the M five at what it 0:24:40.596 --> 0:24:44.676