1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:23,196 Speaker 1: Pushkin, this American, this American. All right, we got cheap 2 00:00:23,276 --> 00:00:28,156 Speaker 1: gas and we're gonna burn it. It's Lee Greenwood riding 3 00:00:28,156 --> 00:00:33,156 Speaker 1: a bald ego, you know, into some like a fireworks finale. 4 00:00:35,076 --> 00:00:37,796 Speaker 1: For the final championship round of our Car of the 5 00:00:37,876 --> 00:00:41,156 Speaker 1: Year tournament, We've brought together one of my favorite car 6 00:00:41,156 --> 00:00:45,236 Speaker 1: guy comedians, Alonzo Boden, who you might know from NPRS 7 00:00:45,316 --> 00:00:49,196 Speaker 1: Wait Weight, Don't tell Me? And my favorite car guy 8 00:00:49,276 --> 00:00:53,476 Speaker 1: public intellectual, Malcolm Gladwell, who you know from his books, 9 00:00:53,956 --> 00:00:57,916 Speaker 1: his podcasts and his unofficial co host status on this show. 10 00:00:59,076 --> 00:01:01,996 Speaker 1: The task in front of us is daunting. How to 11 00:01:02,036 --> 00:01:05,516 Speaker 1: pick a winner from this random grouping of cars. What 12 00:01:05,636 --> 00:01:09,476 Speaker 1: criteria can we use that applies across these four athlete 13 00:01:09,556 --> 00:01:15,636 Speaker 1: different segments. Well, keep listening. Malcolm, of course has the answer. 14 00:01:16,756 --> 00:01:18,036 Speaker 1: I'm going to get out of the way here and 15 00:01:18,116 --> 00:01:20,716 Speaker 1: let the three of us determine once and for all 16 00:01:21,356 --> 00:01:25,796 Speaker 1: the best car I drove this year. I'm Eddie Alterman, 17 00:01:26,116 --> 00:01:32,996 Speaker 1: and this is Car Show. We have our list of semifinalists. 18 00:01:33,436 --> 00:01:37,636 Speaker 1: We have the Chevrolet Corvette zero six. We have the 19 00:01:37,716 --> 00:01:42,876 Speaker 1: Cadillac CT five V Black Wing. We have the Hyundai 20 00:01:43,036 --> 00:01:47,916 Speaker 1: Ionic five as our EV representative and then as our 21 00:01:48,076 --> 00:01:55,396 Speaker 1: SUV semifinalists, the Genesis GV seventy so two from Detroit, 22 00:01:55,996 --> 00:01:59,516 Speaker 1: two from Korea. And if you ask me fifteen years ago, 23 00:01:59,596 --> 00:02:03,116 Speaker 1: that's a mere two product cycles ago whether there would 24 00:02:03,156 --> 00:02:07,036 Speaker 1: be two Korean cars and two domestics on this list. 25 00:02:07,196 --> 00:02:11,476 Speaker 1: I just said, you're smoking angel dust. But here we are. 26 00:02:12,196 --> 00:02:13,396 Speaker 1: What do you guys think? How do you want to 27 00:02:13,436 --> 00:02:16,316 Speaker 1: jump into this? I'll start with cars I can fit in, 28 00:02:16,356 --> 00:02:21,836 Speaker 1: which makes the Corvette really tough. So give me the dimensions. 29 00:02:21,876 --> 00:02:26,396 Speaker 1: So I've been in the new Corvette and it's it's 30 00:02:26,476 --> 00:02:29,996 Speaker 1: kind of like two tunnels with a high center. I mean, 31 00:02:30,036 --> 00:02:32,276 Speaker 1: I got wide shoulders, so it is kind of a 32 00:02:32,316 --> 00:02:36,836 Speaker 1: snug fit. But as car, it's phenomenal. You know, it's 33 00:02:36,836 --> 00:02:40,036 Speaker 1: the only one you talk about punching above your weight class. 34 00:02:40,076 --> 00:02:44,956 Speaker 1: Everything it competes with costs at least twice as much. Yeah. Yeah, 35 00:02:44,996 --> 00:02:48,116 Speaker 1: I actually want to spend a lot of time on 36 00:02:48,116 --> 00:02:51,356 Speaker 1: that very point. But before we do that, I want 37 00:02:51,356 --> 00:02:55,756 Speaker 1: to eliminate one right off that the conversation. Let's see 38 00:02:55,756 --> 00:02:57,716 Speaker 1: if we could agree on the one car of these 39 00:02:57,756 --> 00:03:00,756 Speaker 1: four that doesn't belong. Okay, and I think it's obvious 40 00:03:01,756 --> 00:03:05,516 Speaker 1: it's the Genesis. Really, why, I don't understand why would 41 00:03:05,596 --> 00:03:11,356 Speaker 1: we celebrate just another well put together, overpowered luxury suv 42 00:03:11,596 --> 00:03:15,636 Speaker 1: like it's another version of something that portion vented ten 43 00:03:15,716 --> 00:03:17,876 Speaker 1: fifteen years ago. I see the point, but I think 44 00:03:17,876 --> 00:03:24,196 Speaker 1: the exceptionalism comes from just being so perfectly suited to 45 00:03:24,356 --> 00:03:27,356 Speaker 1: that market. Well. I tend to agree with Malcolm here. 46 00:03:27,836 --> 00:03:31,636 Speaker 1: My issue with Genesis is they make perfect copies of 47 00:03:31,716 --> 00:03:35,036 Speaker 1: other cars. Yeah. I mean, when you're talking about car 48 00:03:35,196 --> 00:03:37,636 Speaker 1: a year, you want something special. So if you want 49 00:03:37,636 --> 00:03:41,236 Speaker 1: it to pick an suv to be special, then I 50 00:03:41,276 --> 00:03:45,196 Speaker 1: think you have to take a turbo Cayenne or an 51 00:03:45,356 --> 00:03:48,716 Speaker 1: X five M, something ridiculous and over the top, you know, 52 00:03:48,876 --> 00:03:53,156 Speaker 1: six hundred horsepower, etc. Like an suv that there's no 53 00:03:53,236 --> 00:03:56,596 Speaker 1: reason for it to exist. Yes, the Genesis is just 54 00:03:57,636 --> 00:04:01,796 Speaker 1: as he said, it's a well executed suv, but it's 55 00:04:01,876 --> 00:04:05,836 Speaker 1: not a special car. Yeah. Also, can I bring up 56 00:04:05,876 --> 00:04:08,756 Speaker 1: Tiger Woods here? Yeah, isn't this the one that nearly 57 00:04:08,796 --> 00:04:11,036 Speaker 1: didn't Tiger? I mean, come on, it's got like a 58 00:04:11,036 --> 00:04:13,716 Speaker 1: shadow of fave Tiger. No, that was the gv ab 59 00:04:14,396 --> 00:04:17,996 Speaker 1: Oh that was a gv Adio. Yeah, Malcolm, that that's 60 00:04:18,036 --> 00:04:21,236 Speaker 1: pretty much anything Tiger drives other than a golf club. 61 00:04:21,596 --> 00:04:26,036 Speaker 1: If anyone who has millions of dollars should hire a 62 00:04:26,076 --> 00:04:29,156 Speaker 1: professional driver, I think we can say it's Tiger Woods. 63 00:04:29,196 --> 00:04:32,396 Speaker 1: He's just his record behind the wheel is just not 64 00:04:32,596 --> 00:04:36,036 Speaker 1: I know, yeah, yeah, I thought about that. That is true. 65 00:04:36,556 --> 00:04:38,876 Speaker 1: I think he can afford a driver at this point. Yeah, 66 00:04:38,916 --> 00:04:41,756 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm with Alonso. Like, if it was 67 00:04:41,916 --> 00:04:45,676 Speaker 1: nuts in some really wonderful way, I love that. If 68 00:04:45,676 --> 00:04:48,396 Speaker 1: it had no reason to exist other than to fulfill 69 00:04:48,396 --> 00:04:51,556 Speaker 1: the fantasy of an engineer somewhere, then I would be 70 00:04:51,876 --> 00:04:55,156 Speaker 1: all over it. But it's like another Jennifer Aniston romcong. 71 00:04:55,716 --> 00:04:59,036 Speaker 1: I mean, you know what you're getting. It's really well produced. 72 00:04:59,796 --> 00:05:04,476 Speaker 1: Like is your life really immeasurably improved by seeing the 73 00:05:04,556 --> 00:05:08,436 Speaker 1: seventeenth you know, romcom where she thinks she's being left 74 00:05:08,436 --> 00:05:15,916 Speaker 1: to the altar? Well, okay, taking the opposite position. There's 75 00:05:15,956 --> 00:05:18,516 Speaker 1: so much value packed into this thing that for the 76 00:05:18,676 --> 00:05:23,116 Speaker 1: average SUV person, this thing is like a Mercedes for 77 00:05:23,196 --> 00:05:25,916 Speaker 1: half the money. It's one hundred thousand dollars interior in 78 00:05:25,996 --> 00:05:28,876 Speaker 1: a fifty thousand dollars vehicle. It's probably going to be 79 00:05:29,396 --> 00:05:32,516 Speaker 1: more trouble free and cheaper to keep on the road 80 00:05:32,516 --> 00:05:35,876 Speaker 1: than any of the German makes you highlighted there, and 81 00:05:36,516 --> 00:05:40,556 Speaker 1: this is their second SUV and Genesis wasn't even a 82 00:05:40,636 --> 00:05:43,876 Speaker 1: brand fifteen years ago. And it's like way better than 83 00:05:44,036 --> 00:05:47,996 Speaker 1: I think the Audie or the or even you know, 84 00:05:48,116 --> 00:05:51,076 Speaker 1: the Mercedes in the BMW in some way. I'm gonna 85 00:05:51,116 --> 00:05:53,076 Speaker 1: stop you right here, but I'm gonna tell you why 86 00:05:53,756 --> 00:05:57,196 Speaker 1: your statement just eliminated that car. Okay, you use the 87 00:05:57,236 --> 00:06:00,316 Speaker 1: word it's a great value. When you were a kid 88 00:06:00,316 --> 00:06:02,716 Speaker 1: and you looked at cars and you dreamt of the 89 00:06:02,836 --> 00:06:05,596 Speaker 1: car when you grow up, at no point did you say, man, 90 00:06:05,676 --> 00:06:07,476 Speaker 1: I can't wait till I'm old enough to buy a 91 00:06:07,516 --> 00:06:11,156 Speaker 1: great value. That's not the card a year the car 92 00:06:11,196 --> 00:06:13,596 Speaker 1: of the year is. I want something excited. When you 93 00:06:13,636 --> 00:06:15,756 Speaker 1: were a kid, you wanted to grow up to get 94 00:06:15,756 --> 00:06:18,556 Speaker 1: a Corvette or if there was a Cadillac with five 95 00:06:18,636 --> 00:06:21,996 Speaker 1: hundred horsepower like that didn't even exist back then. But 96 00:06:22,076 --> 00:06:25,956 Speaker 1: that's an aspirational you want one of those. Nobody's like, man, 97 00:06:25,996 --> 00:06:31,356 Speaker 1: if I could only get a great value, right, you know? 98 00:06:31,436 --> 00:06:34,356 Speaker 1: I want to also Also, Eddie suddenly gotten religion, you 99 00:06:34,396 --> 00:06:35,476 Speaker 1: know alone as I don't know if you know that 100 00:06:35,556 --> 00:06:38,156 Speaker 1: Eddie and I have a beef that goes back how 101 00:06:38,196 --> 00:06:41,836 Speaker 1: many years now, like ten years, ten years or more. 102 00:06:42,076 --> 00:06:43,596 Speaker 1: I wrote a piece with The New Yorker where I 103 00:06:43,636 --> 00:06:47,556 Speaker 1: took issue with a comparo that the car driver had 104 00:06:47,596 --> 00:06:55,516 Speaker 1: done Porsche Cayman versus Lotus Elise versus Corvette. They compared 105 00:06:55,556 --> 00:06:58,316 Speaker 1: these sweet cars, and the subject to price never came up. 106 00:06:58,316 --> 00:07:01,316 Speaker 1: And my point was, the Corvette appears to be as 107 00:07:01,316 --> 00:07:04,916 Speaker 1: good as the other two cars in every conceivable important respect. 108 00:07:05,156 --> 00:07:08,636 Speaker 1: It is twenty grand cheaper on account for something. And 109 00:07:09,116 --> 00:07:11,836 Speaker 1: and he was completely blind to this idea. And now 110 00:07:11,876 --> 00:07:14,236 Speaker 1: all of a sudden he's turned around and he's talking. 111 00:07:14,356 --> 00:07:17,996 Speaker 1: He sounds like Consumer Reports. Well, I might be able 112 00:07:18,036 --> 00:07:25,196 Speaker 1: to extricate myself through some deft, you know, rationalizations and bullshittery. 113 00:07:25,796 --> 00:07:27,676 Speaker 1: You've gone from the editor of Car and Driver to 114 00:07:27,676 --> 00:07:30,636 Speaker 1: the editor of Consumer Reports. All you're concerned about is 115 00:07:30,676 --> 00:07:33,076 Speaker 1: how far I can struct my suburban dollar, what how 116 00:07:33,236 --> 00:07:35,596 Speaker 1: my tacy case. I keep my feet on the ground. 117 00:07:35,676 --> 00:07:38,876 Speaker 1: I keep reaching for the stars from Malcolm. So the 118 00:07:38,956 --> 00:07:42,756 Speaker 1: idea that you raised, Alonzo, that the Corvette is great 119 00:07:43,316 --> 00:07:45,756 Speaker 1: based on you know, it's a third to half the 120 00:07:45,796 --> 00:07:51,036 Speaker 1: price of Lamborghini Orican or you know Ferrari Fate or 121 00:07:51,076 --> 00:07:53,756 Speaker 1: a Pista or something like that. I think value is 122 00:07:53,796 --> 00:07:56,516 Speaker 1: part of the Corvette equation. But the Corvette is a 123 00:07:56,596 --> 00:08:00,476 Speaker 1: still a high performance car. It's a supercar. As a 124 00:08:00,596 --> 00:08:04,876 Speaker 1: side bonus, it costs less, but it's still unto itself. 125 00:08:04,916 --> 00:08:08,516 Speaker 1: It's a supercar. That's the difference. The Genesis, it isn't 126 00:08:08,796 --> 00:08:11,836 Speaker 1: a super suv. It's an suv. It's it's a nice 127 00:08:12,316 --> 00:08:17,476 Speaker 1: luxury suv. The Corvette steps up to supercar level, and 128 00:08:17,556 --> 00:08:20,076 Speaker 1: the fact that it costs less is like a bonus. 129 00:08:20,636 --> 00:08:24,356 Speaker 1: You know, when I evaluate cars in the Corvette category. 130 00:08:24,956 --> 00:08:27,436 Speaker 1: You know where I live in upstate New York, there's 131 00:08:27,436 --> 00:08:29,876 Speaker 1: a lot of guys with a lot of money. On 132 00:08:29,876 --> 00:08:33,876 Speaker 1: the weekends they take out their special automobile. I will 133 00:08:33,956 --> 00:08:39,396 Speaker 1: driving into town on Saturday morning see ten amazing automobiles 134 00:08:39,436 --> 00:08:41,596 Speaker 1: on a good day. There's a guy who lives when 135 00:08:41,676 --> 00:08:44,476 Speaker 1: Naby who has a Lamborghini. Every time I see him 136 00:08:44,476 --> 00:08:48,276 Speaker 1: as Lamborghini, my first thought is what a jazz? I mean? 137 00:08:48,316 --> 00:08:52,356 Speaker 1: Come on, so you dropped whatever it was three on 138 00:08:52,436 --> 00:08:56,756 Speaker 1: this thing which is basically undrivable, and you're only doing 139 00:08:56,756 --> 00:08:59,316 Speaker 1: it because you have some kind of adolescent fantasy that 140 00:08:59,356 --> 00:09:02,356 Speaker 1: you're fulfilling. At this point, when I see someone in 141 00:09:02,396 --> 00:09:05,796 Speaker 1: a new Corvette, I don't think Jack has really now 142 00:09:06,196 --> 00:09:09,636 Speaker 1: to follow up. At a Lotza's point, there's some element 143 00:09:09,796 --> 00:09:14,476 Speaker 1: of discretion involved. There's a certain judiciousness. It's like, all right, 144 00:09:14,516 --> 00:09:18,556 Speaker 1: I want a world class autobile. I could go all 145 00:09:18,556 --> 00:09:20,636 Speaker 1: the way to one hundred percent and get a McLaren 146 00:09:21,396 --> 00:09:24,836 Speaker 1: or it can go ninety five percent or ninety eight 147 00:09:24,876 --> 00:09:27,916 Speaker 1: percent and get a Corvette and save myself two hundred grand. 148 00:09:28,276 --> 00:09:32,156 Speaker 1: Who is it? That's an admirable position. Yeah, I see that. 149 00:09:32,236 --> 00:09:34,796 Speaker 1: There's a nugget of rationality in there. And you're also 150 00:09:34,876 --> 00:09:37,436 Speaker 1: saying like, yeah, I probably could have a three hundred 151 00:09:37,476 --> 00:09:39,876 Speaker 1: thousand dollars car. You could have it, but you don't. 152 00:09:39,876 --> 00:09:42,796 Speaker 1: You're more intentional about the Corvette zero six than you 153 00:09:42,836 --> 00:09:47,916 Speaker 1: are about a Hurrican. The thing about like ferraris as 154 00:09:48,076 --> 00:09:52,716 Speaker 1: distinct from Lamborghini's is the Ferrari guy he's planned his purchase, 155 00:09:52,836 --> 00:09:55,636 Speaker 1: he's been fixated on, you know, with a four thirty 156 00:09:55,716 --> 00:09:58,196 Speaker 1: spider for twenty years, and he wants to get he 157 00:09:58,236 --> 00:10:01,076 Speaker 1: wants to get it, and he does and he keeps 158 00:10:01,116 --> 00:10:05,276 Speaker 1: it forever. The Lamborghini guy falls into a bunch of money, 159 00:10:06,356 --> 00:10:08,516 Speaker 1: buys his thank and he's dead in eighteen months or 160 00:10:08,556 --> 00:10:11,036 Speaker 1: he's broken eighteen months, and it's just way more impulsive. 161 00:10:11,156 --> 00:10:14,436 Speaker 1: Whenever I see a Lambeau in La, I'm like, if 162 00:10:14,436 --> 00:10:17,116 Speaker 1: I'm dropping three hundred k in La, I'm going to 163 00:10:17,156 --> 00:10:19,516 Speaker 1: get a Rolls Royce because I'm only sitting in traffic. 164 00:10:19,556 --> 00:10:23,356 Speaker 1: I might as well be comfortable. Yeah, but again, getting 165 00:10:23,796 --> 00:10:25,996 Speaker 1: back to our point about the Genesis. You notice the 166 00:10:26,036 --> 00:10:29,916 Speaker 1: cars we're talking about are all exotic, aspirational cars, and 167 00:10:30,356 --> 00:10:33,596 Speaker 1: nobody's feeling that about the Genesis. But Eddie, if we 168 00:10:33,636 --> 00:10:36,356 Speaker 1: gave you, how about this, put it this way, All 169 00:10:36,396 --> 00:10:39,956 Speaker 1: four of those cars are available to you tomorrow for free. 170 00:10:39,956 --> 00:10:41,596 Speaker 1: You can pick one of the four for free for 171 00:10:41,676 --> 00:10:45,076 Speaker 1: your own personal use. Which one are you picking? You're 172 00:10:45,076 --> 00:10:49,196 Speaker 1: not picking the Genesis, no, no, Now, I will tell 173 00:10:49,236 --> 00:10:52,036 Speaker 1: you that there are times definitely where I choose comfort, 174 00:10:52,476 --> 00:10:55,276 Speaker 1: Like if I have a Genesis or a BRZ, I'm 175 00:10:55,316 --> 00:10:59,076 Speaker 1: gonna probably go with the Genesis. But I'm sure there's 176 00:10:59,076 --> 00:11:01,676 Speaker 1: gonna be if an M three is up on the board, 177 00:11:02,116 --> 00:11:05,036 Speaker 1: that'll do. And I didn't even bring in the sex 178 00:11:05,036 --> 00:11:08,556 Speaker 1: appeal factor because again that you know there is a 179 00:11:08,596 --> 00:11:12,036 Speaker 1: sex appeal to these cars, and nobody's walking up. Hey baby, 180 00:11:12,276 --> 00:11:17,236 Speaker 1: you know what kind of value I got here? But 181 00:11:17,396 --> 00:11:21,276 Speaker 1: Malcolm's point is a great one that cars are about context, right, 182 00:11:21,716 --> 00:11:27,556 Speaker 1: and a Corvette in the Hudson Valley has a kind 183 00:11:27,556 --> 00:11:31,596 Speaker 1: of outsider cool factor to it, especially as Zo six. 184 00:11:32,116 --> 00:11:34,756 Speaker 1: You know, we have this thing in Detroit called the 185 00:11:34,756 --> 00:11:39,596 Speaker 1: Woodward Dream Cruise and it's basically just quarter mile runs 186 00:11:40,076 --> 00:11:42,796 Speaker 1: all day long. You have gasers in there, you have 187 00:11:42,876 --> 00:11:46,476 Speaker 1: hot rods, you have all this great domestic iron. Somebody 188 00:11:46,476 --> 00:11:49,596 Speaker 1: shows up in a Lamborghini. They just look like a 189 00:11:49,596 --> 00:11:52,796 Speaker 1: complete asshole, you know, like, what are you doing with 190 00:11:52,836 --> 00:11:54,956 Speaker 1: that car going in a straight line. Yes it's got 191 00:11:54,996 --> 00:11:57,676 Speaker 1: good quarter mile times, but you're just so out of place. 192 00:11:57,716 --> 00:12:00,596 Speaker 1: It doesn't even look right. You want like big Impaua's, 193 00:12:00,756 --> 00:12:05,236 Speaker 1: you want tea bucket forards. Those kinds of cars really 194 00:12:05,236 --> 00:12:08,716 Speaker 1: fit in and Woodward and exotics just don't. But the 195 00:12:09,196 --> 00:12:14,276 Speaker 1: but it can code switch, you know what I mean. 196 00:12:15,036 --> 00:12:19,436 Speaker 1: It can be kind of everything to everybody in a 197 00:12:19,516 --> 00:12:23,436 Speaker 1: really really cool way. It's not just the traditional The 198 00:12:23,476 --> 00:12:27,676 Speaker 1: Corvette has a lot of baggage, you know, because of 199 00:12:27,916 --> 00:12:30,676 Speaker 1: all the Corvette shows and guys in their lawn chairs, 200 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:33,796 Speaker 1: you know, rubbing them with diapers, and cars with chrome 201 00:12:33,836 --> 00:12:38,876 Speaker 1: wheels and yellow cars with purple stripes. That's not what 202 00:12:38,996 --> 00:12:42,916 Speaker 1: this new zero six is. This new Zeo six is 203 00:12:42,996 --> 00:12:47,356 Speaker 1: every bit the international exotic right down to it's crazy 204 00:12:47,636 --> 00:12:53,396 Speaker 1: naturally aspirated engine. I mean, there's kind of nothing like it. Yeah, 205 00:12:53,436 --> 00:12:56,156 Speaker 1: but the way you know, I saw that Corvett's thinking 206 00:12:56,156 --> 00:12:57,916 Speaker 1: of spinning off as a brand and coming out with 207 00:12:57,956 --> 00:13:01,316 Speaker 1: an suv. If we had a Corvette SUV in this lineup, 208 00:13:01,396 --> 00:13:04,476 Speaker 1: that would be my hands down winner. Really, Oh so 209 00:13:04,636 --> 00:13:07,356 Speaker 1: you're four, You're four a Corvette suv? I am so? 210 00:13:08,116 --> 00:13:14,116 Speaker 1: Are you? Who? Wait? Alonzo, Yeah, that would be that 211 00:13:14,156 --> 00:13:17,636 Speaker 1: would be fun. I have to say, Eddie, if the 212 00:13:17,716 --> 00:13:21,396 Speaker 1: new Corvette was not badged as a Corvette, it wouldn't 213 00:13:21,436 --> 00:13:23,836 Speaker 1: fit in there either. It would be too exotic. And 214 00:13:23,876 --> 00:13:27,036 Speaker 1: it's look, the reason it fits in is because of 215 00:13:27,076 --> 00:13:30,996 Speaker 1: the name Corvette and the history you talked about is 216 00:13:31,036 --> 00:13:34,956 Speaker 1: why it would be accepted amongst Detroit muscle. Otherwise it 217 00:13:34,996 --> 00:13:40,276 Speaker 1: would look like another international, flashy exotic car and people 218 00:13:40,276 --> 00:13:43,076 Speaker 1: would be like, nah, that doesn't belong here, because it 219 00:13:43,156 --> 00:13:46,036 Speaker 1: certainly doesn't look like an American muscle car. Even though 220 00:13:46,036 --> 00:13:49,916 Speaker 1: it has the ultimate American muscle engine, right, It's amazing 221 00:13:49,996 --> 00:13:52,516 Speaker 1: how much they can keep working the small block and 222 00:13:52,596 --> 00:13:54,956 Speaker 1: just keep getting it better and better and more and 223 00:13:54,996 --> 00:13:58,916 Speaker 1: more power. But that car, if it wasn't badged as 224 00:13:58,916 --> 00:14:01,396 Speaker 1: a Corvette, it would look as out of place as 225 00:14:01,396 --> 00:14:04,796 Speaker 1: a Lamborghini or a Ferrari in a quarter mile. But 226 00:14:04,916 --> 00:14:07,276 Speaker 1: it's that power of the brand that allows them to 227 00:14:07,796 --> 00:14:12,276 Speaker 1: spin on. Yeah, yeah, totally. When we come back more 228 00:14:12,356 --> 00:14:25,196 Speaker 1: with Malcolm Gladwell and Alonzo Boating, let's talking about the 229 00:14:25,196 --> 00:14:27,316 Speaker 1: Black Wing because my first thought on long these lines 230 00:14:27,396 --> 00:14:30,156 Speaker 1: is another car that would be a hands down winner 231 00:14:31,036 --> 00:14:33,956 Speaker 1: in a study different configuration is if the Black Wing 232 00:14:33,996 --> 00:14:37,836 Speaker 1: were a station wagon. Now you're talking like a real 233 00:14:37,916 --> 00:14:42,076 Speaker 1: automotive journalist, Malcolm, the shooting brake version of the CT 234 00:14:42,276 --> 00:14:45,796 Speaker 1: five Black Wing. I would mortgage my house to buy 235 00:14:45,796 --> 00:14:48,556 Speaker 1: that car. I would buy that so fast. It's it's 236 00:14:48,596 --> 00:14:51,636 Speaker 1: like that we achieve and also an extended version, like 237 00:14:51,636 --> 00:14:53,876 Speaker 1: a shooting brake version of the CT five in the 238 00:14:53,916 --> 00:14:58,036 Speaker 1: same way that the take on Grant Rismo Sports Grant 239 00:14:58,076 --> 00:15:01,116 Speaker 1: Resmo and also the Panamera. Both of the shooting brake 240 00:15:01,196 --> 00:15:03,116 Speaker 1: versions of those cars are infinitely better looking than the 241 00:15:03,596 --> 00:15:07,396 Speaker 1: way more desirable, way more desirable. You know, in that form, 242 00:15:07,476 --> 00:15:11,596 Speaker 1: that car becomes such a slam dunk. I mean you 243 00:15:11,636 --> 00:15:15,076 Speaker 1: can legitimately, you know, justify it to your spouse, spice 244 00:15:15,356 --> 00:15:18,396 Speaker 1: by pointing to its practicality. It's only six hundred and 245 00:15:18,436 --> 00:15:22,116 Speaker 1: sixty eight horsepower. You don't mention that. You don't mention that. 246 00:15:24,396 --> 00:15:27,476 Speaker 1: I think the problem they have with those it's the 247 00:15:27,516 --> 00:15:29,596 Speaker 1: same that they had when they had the CTS V 248 00:15:29,756 --> 00:15:33,316 Speaker 1: Wagon and all people like them in theory, but then 249 00:15:33,356 --> 00:15:36,716 Speaker 1: they don't buy them, you know, I mean the Panamera 250 00:15:36,996 --> 00:15:40,636 Speaker 1: that was it, the Grand Turismo. Yeah, yeah, it looks 251 00:15:40,676 --> 00:15:43,196 Speaker 1: really cool, but but I don't see them on the road. 252 00:15:43,236 --> 00:15:46,436 Speaker 1: People aren't buying them, and they're you know, they cost 253 00:15:46,436 --> 00:15:48,556 Speaker 1: a lot. I mean I looked at it. It's it's 254 00:15:48,556 --> 00:15:53,396 Speaker 1: an expensive car. So from a manufacturing standpoint, you know, 255 00:15:53,476 --> 00:15:56,836 Speaker 1: getting back to Eddy value, that's what I'm gonna call 256 00:15:56,876 --> 00:16:01,116 Speaker 1: you from that, just the Eddy value. You know, marketings 257 00:16:01,196 --> 00:16:04,276 Speaker 1: like we should make it, but but sales is like, yeah, 258 00:16:04,316 --> 00:16:06,516 Speaker 1: but we can't sell those, I would Eddie. Do you 259 00:16:06,556 --> 00:16:10,436 Speaker 1: know the sales numbers on the the take on Shooting Brake, 260 00:16:10,676 --> 00:16:14,516 Speaker 1: Is that one selling Well? No, it's a tiny percentage 261 00:16:14,876 --> 00:16:17,716 Speaker 1: and it's a bit of a Haywell vehicle for the 262 00:16:17,756 --> 00:16:22,236 Speaker 1: Tykon brand itself. Same with the Panamera. But you know, Alonzo, 263 00:16:22,316 --> 00:16:25,956 Speaker 1: your point about you know, the ctfive v Wagon that 264 00:16:26,076 --> 00:16:28,436 Speaker 1: nobody wanted when it came out. Now if you look 265 00:16:28,476 --> 00:16:30,476 Speaker 1: on bring a trailer or something, they're going for a 266 00:16:30,596 --> 00:16:34,116 Speaker 1: ridiculous amounts of money. Yeah, now now people want them. 267 00:16:34,156 --> 00:16:35,996 Speaker 1: It's a lot of cars that people didn't want when 268 00:16:36,036 --> 00:16:38,516 Speaker 1: they came out and then later they're like, oh, that's 269 00:16:38,516 --> 00:16:42,956 Speaker 1: a phenomenal car. But as as you know, manufacturers don't 270 00:16:42,996 --> 00:16:45,876 Speaker 1: look at it that way. Right, there is something about 271 00:16:45,956 --> 00:16:51,316 Speaker 1: the United States and we love SUVs. We don't love wagons. Yeah, 272 00:16:51,356 --> 00:16:54,476 Speaker 1: and that's what we love. We love SUVs. I mean 273 00:16:54,516 --> 00:16:58,996 Speaker 1: you look at BMW right, they have high performance wagons. 274 00:16:59,596 --> 00:17:02,036 Speaker 1: They don't sell any of many United States. They sell 275 00:17:02,116 --> 00:17:05,116 Speaker 1: us the SUVs because that's what we that's what we 276 00:17:05,156 --> 00:17:08,396 Speaker 1: tend to buy. Any white On the question of the 277 00:17:08,716 --> 00:17:12,196 Speaker 1: of the C five Black Wing, you chose the CT 278 00:17:12,356 --> 00:17:14,796 Speaker 1: five Black Wing and not the CT four Black Wing 279 00:17:14,876 --> 00:17:19,276 Speaker 1: because well, I think the CT four is really brilliant too. 280 00:17:19,476 --> 00:17:21,876 Speaker 1: And like I said, we have that M three in 281 00:17:21,916 --> 00:17:25,156 Speaker 1: the office. But I'm driving the CT four. More than that, 282 00:17:25,876 --> 00:17:30,956 Speaker 1: the CT five to me is sort of the the 283 00:17:31,156 --> 00:17:35,516 Speaker 1: last will ever get of that format of the V 284 00:17:35,796 --> 00:17:40,156 Speaker 1: eight sports sedan with a stick rear drive. It is 285 00:17:40,436 --> 00:17:45,556 Speaker 1: so incredibly animalistic. The driving experience is much more vivid, 286 00:17:45,676 --> 00:17:47,996 Speaker 1: I think, even than the four. The four is great, 287 00:17:48,476 --> 00:17:51,196 Speaker 1: but the five really feels like that nine to eleven 288 00:17:52,156 --> 00:17:54,876 Speaker 1: sedan that Alonso was talking about, which is the ideal, 289 00:17:54,916 --> 00:17:58,036 Speaker 1: which is like, that's what your M five is, Malcolm. 290 00:17:58,076 --> 00:18:01,636 Speaker 1: It's like really a sports car sort of in drag, 291 00:18:02,396 --> 00:18:06,596 Speaker 1: and the five, to me, it's just more desirable. It's 292 00:18:06,716 --> 00:18:10,756 Speaker 1: more more. It's like, Okay, how much horsepower can we 293 00:18:10,756 --> 00:18:14,036 Speaker 1: throw out this thing and still make it totally totally livable, 294 00:18:14,236 --> 00:18:19,036 Speaker 1: usable rides great. It's utterly sophisticated yet utterly animalistic at 295 00:18:19,036 --> 00:18:21,236 Speaker 1: the same time. So to me, it just maxes out 296 00:18:21,316 --> 00:18:24,116 Speaker 1: both of those things. Now I haven't driven the CT 297 00:18:24,156 --> 00:18:26,916 Speaker 1: four and CT five, but I've owned the M three 298 00:18:27,156 --> 00:18:29,116 Speaker 1: and now I have an M five, and I tell 299 00:18:29,156 --> 00:18:33,636 Speaker 1: everyone the M five is more comfortable in comfort and 300 00:18:33,796 --> 00:18:36,636 Speaker 1: more powerful in sport? Is it the same thing with 301 00:18:36,716 --> 00:18:40,636 Speaker 1: the CT four and CT five, same deal? And what's 302 00:18:40,676 --> 00:18:43,756 Speaker 1: so amazing about the CT five is the ride quality. 303 00:18:44,316 --> 00:18:47,556 Speaker 1: CT four two, like the BMW's are very harsh now, 304 00:18:47,956 --> 00:18:52,876 Speaker 1: they're like that macho stiffness, whereas like the CT five 305 00:18:52,956 --> 00:18:56,956 Speaker 1: V Black Wing. To me, that's the car for Like, Okay, 306 00:18:56,996 --> 00:19:00,756 Speaker 1: this guy is like a world renowned pediatrist. He's got 307 00:19:01,156 --> 00:19:05,876 Speaker 1: a bomb ass collection of Hawaiian shirts, he listens to 308 00:19:05,916 --> 00:19:12,196 Speaker 1: Steely Dan on homemade speakers. He's like a true enthusiast iconoclast. Yeah, 309 00:19:12,436 --> 00:19:17,236 Speaker 1: and he wants the maximum of everything. So that's why 310 00:19:17,276 --> 00:19:19,796 Speaker 1: I chose it. What's your take on it, Malcolm? You know, 311 00:19:20,156 --> 00:19:24,836 Speaker 1: my daily driver is is a CT five V, so 312 00:19:24,996 --> 00:19:28,636 Speaker 1: one step down obviously not a manual. Part of me 313 00:19:28,756 --> 00:19:34,356 Speaker 1: has been jonesing to swap that for either the Black 314 00:19:34,356 --> 00:19:37,396 Speaker 1: Wing five or the Black Wing four. Kind of like 315 00:19:37,476 --> 00:19:40,516 Speaker 1: the Black Wing four conceptually more. I like the idea 316 00:19:40,556 --> 00:19:44,156 Speaker 1: of all that power in a little tidy package, and 317 00:19:44,196 --> 00:19:46,036 Speaker 1: I like the look of the four better than the five. 318 00:19:46,596 --> 00:19:48,756 Speaker 1: If you make the Black Wing the car of the year, 319 00:19:49,156 --> 00:19:52,036 Speaker 1: it's a middle finger to the entire automotive world, right, 320 00:19:52,036 --> 00:19:55,396 Speaker 1: because you're saying everything you guys have been trying to 321 00:19:55,436 --> 00:19:59,276 Speaker 1: transition to over the last five to ten years, we're 322 00:19:59,276 --> 00:20:03,836 Speaker 1: not interested in. What we want is rear drive manual 323 00:20:03,996 --> 00:20:08,956 Speaker 1: V eight old school, Like, you know, I'm increasingly convinced 324 00:20:08,956 --> 00:20:12,876 Speaker 1: the cars peaked fifteen years ago and everything's been downhill 325 00:20:12,916 --> 00:20:17,196 Speaker 1: ever since. And the CT five Blacking it's basically the 326 00:20:18,076 --> 00:20:20,676 Speaker 1: better version of the fifteen year old car. The corvettees 327 00:20:20,796 --> 00:20:22,996 Speaker 1: the same way the Corvette's like, you know, it's like 328 00:20:23,036 --> 00:20:26,796 Speaker 1: a four or five eight specialty Ferrari from fifteen years ago, 329 00:20:26,916 --> 00:20:30,836 Speaker 1: ten years ago. And this thing is like naturally aspirated 330 00:20:31,356 --> 00:20:35,316 Speaker 1: M five although it's supercharged, but it's it's not turbo charged. 331 00:20:35,396 --> 00:20:39,436 Speaker 1: It doesn't have, like, you know, that feel free steering 332 00:20:39,476 --> 00:20:42,436 Speaker 1: that all these new cars have. It's not remote and 333 00:20:42,636 --> 00:20:46,396 Speaker 1: distant and clinical feeling like a lot of new cars. 334 00:20:46,396 --> 00:20:49,396 Speaker 1: It's got a ton of feel. And I think what 335 00:20:49,476 --> 00:20:53,156 Speaker 1: the CT five V Black Wing says is that he 336 00:20:53,236 --> 00:20:55,356 Speaker 1: can't just take a car out of the box and 337 00:20:55,956 --> 00:20:59,596 Speaker 1: release it into the wild. You have to really work it. 338 00:20:59,676 --> 00:21:02,196 Speaker 1: You have to to develop it and hone it and 339 00:21:02,236 --> 00:21:05,516 Speaker 1: hone it and hone it. And that's what the engineers 340 00:21:05,556 --> 00:21:07,636 Speaker 1: on the Black Wings, and I think on a lot 341 00:21:07,636 --> 00:21:10,996 Speaker 1: of Cadillacs are doing now. It's just really making them 342 00:21:11,116 --> 00:21:14,596 Speaker 1: very driver oriented, full of feedback, and to me, like, 343 00:21:16,196 --> 00:21:19,236 Speaker 1: I want to sports adan that can really calm down 344 00:21:19,356 --> 00:21:22,156 Speaker 1: when I wanted to calm down, and can really go 345 00:21:22,356 --> 00:21:24,676 Speaker 1: hard when I want to like take an on ramp, 346 00:21:24,716 --> 00:21:27,356 Speaker 1: burn off ramp, and I want to have that bandwidth 347 00:21:27,756 --> 00:21:30,276 Speaker 1: that you know, I think only a car like the 348 00:21:30,316 --> 00:21:33,596 Speaker 1: CT five V gives you. Well, I think the V 349 00:21:33,876 --> 00:21:39,036 Speaker 1: series Cadillacs have always been like the ultimate version of 350 00:21:39,076 --> 00:21:41,396 Speaker 1: a muscle car. Like you go back to the muscle 351 00:21:41,436 --> 00:21:44,436 Speaker 1: cars of the sixties, right, and they had these giant 352 00:21:44,436 --> 00:21:47,076 Speaker 1: engines and they had all this horsepower, but they were 353 00:21:47,116 --> 00:21:50,356 Speaker 1: bad cars. They were just brutal and harsh. They didn't 354 00:21:50,356 --> 00:21:53,236 Speaker 1: handle this. So now they're like, Okay, we're still gonna 355 00:21:53,276 --> 00:21:56,876 Speaker 1: give you that feeling that you can only get from 356 00:21:56,916 --> 00:22:01,036 Speaker 1: a big V eight rear drive like muscle American muscle. 357 00:22:01,676 --> 00:22:04,636 Speaker 1: But like you were saying, Eddie, we're gonna make it comfortable, 358 00:22:04,756 --> 00:22:06,796 Speaker 1: and we're gonna make it handle, and we're gonna put 359 00:22:06,836 --> 00:22:10,996 Speaker 1: in all the modern conveniences. You know, my buddy Chris 360 00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:15,116 Speaker 1: Titus hot rod lover, and we we had this argument 361 00:22:15,196 --> 00:22:17,556 Speaker 1: long ago and he was talking about hot rods. I 362 00:22:17,636 --> 00:22:19,956 Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I like my hot rod 363 00:22:19,996 --> 00:22:24,436 Speaker 1: with heated seats and navigation. I'm okay with that, all right. 364 00:22:24,516 --> 00:22:27,036 Speaker 1: I don't need it to, you know, to be as 365 00:22:27,076 --> 00:22:29,316 Speaker 1: brutal as they were back in the day. So yeah, 366 00:22:29,356 --> 00:22:32,716 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a big fan of the V series, all 367 00:22:32,756 --> 00:22:35,796 Speaker 1: of them, all of the VS. It is what Malcolm said, 368 00:22:35,796 --> 00:22:38,116 Speaker 1: it is the middle finger. Like, no, it's not even 369 00:22:38,156 --> 00:22:40,316 Speaker 1: the middle thing, you know what. It's like this American, 370 00:22:40,596 --> 00:22:43,196 Speaker 1: this American, all right, we got cheap gas and we're 371 00:22:43,236 --> 00:22:48,116 Speaker 1: gonna burn it. It's Lee Greenwood riding a bald ego, 372 00:22:48,436 --> 00:22:53,356 Speaker 1: you know, into some like a fireworks finale. It's funny 373 00:22:53,436 --> 00:22:55,076 Speaker 1: to go back to what you said at the beginning, Eddie, 374 00:22:55,116 --> 00:22:57,956 Speaker 1: about how fifteen years ago someone had told you that 375 00:22:57,996 --> 00:23:02,276 Speaker 1: the four semi finalists were two Koreans and two Detroit products. 376 00:23:02,956 --> 00:23:07,276 Speaker 1: What's interesting is how the position of BMW and Cadillac 377 00:23:07,316 --> 00:23:11,916 Speaker 1: has flipped in that period, right, because fifteen years ago, 378 00:23:11,916 --> 00:23:16,076 Speaker 1: it would have been two BMW's and probably two Japanese 379 00:23:16,076 --> 00:23:18,556 Speaker 1: cars on that list, right, it would have you know, 380 00:23:18,556 --> 00:23:22,196 Speaker 1: it would have been the the NSX, the M five, 381 00:23:23,236 --> 00:23:26,316 Speaker 1: you know, like you guys in philipp Yeah, and like 382 00:23:26,436 --> 00:23:29,876 Speaker 1: that that kind of like is super I mean, this 383 00:23:29,956 --> 00:23:33,396 Speaker 1: is a separate and larger conversation. But that idea that 384 00:23:33,396 --> 00:23:38,236 Speaker 1: an American brand has re emerged as the engineering paragon 385 00:23:39,236 --> 00:23:42,436 Speaker 1: is super interesting, right, It's like it says something about 386 00:23:42,436 --> 00:23:46,076 Speaker 1: the new direction that American manufacturing has gone in in 387 00:23:46,076 --> 00:23:49,556 Speaker 1: that period, Like where where the Germans? I mean the 388 00:23:49,636 --> 00:23:54,316 Speaker 1: Germans now we're you know, this is kind of another 389 00:23:54,516 --> 00:23:57,396 Speaker 1: stunning blow to German pride. Right, they don't have a 390 00:23:57,396 --> 00:24:00,916 Speaker 1: carn list. It's unbelievable. But my feeling isn't like they're 391 00:24:01,436 --> 00:24:04,436 Speaker 1: They're like, there's something that's gotten very kind of fussy 392 00:24:04,476 --> 00:24:09,836 Speaker 1: about German cars and this this kind of like almost 393 00:24:09,836 --> 00:24:13,316 Speaker 1: cynical attempt to broaden and broaden and broaden their base 394 00:24:13,396 --> 00:24:18,676 Speaker 1: and while pretending to hang on to their performance enthusiast roots, 395 00:24:19,036 --> 00:24:21,316 Speaker 1: is getting really annoying. I have a different take on that. 396 00:24:21,516 --> 00:24:23,876 Speaker 1: I have a different take on that. And my take 397 00:24:24,116 --> 00:24:27,756 Speaker 1: is that with the German cars, it's a given we've 398 00:24:27,796 --> 00:24:31,436 Speaker 1: become so used to the level of performance from BMW 399 00:24:31,476 --> 00:24:36,916 Speaker 1: and Mercedes that it's not surprising that their cars are supercars. 400 00:24:37,236 --> 00:24:40,556 Speaker 1: We're not surprised at the M five at what it 401 00:24:40,596 --> 00:24:44,676 Speaker 1: can do, whereas with the Cadillac because you know, unfortunately, listen, 402 00:24:44,716 --> 00:24:48,956 Speaker 1: American cars destroyed their reputation right through let's say, through 403 00:24:48,956 --> 00:24:51,836 Speaker 1: the nineties, and now they make great cars and a 404 00:24:51,836 --> 00:24:54,876 Speaker 1: lot of people don't even think of looking at that 405 00:24:54,956 --> 00:24:57,596 Speaker 1: car when they're in the market. They're looking at, you know, 406 00:24:57,676 --> 00:25:01,036 Speaker 1: an M five, or they're looking at an AMG whatever, 407 00:25:01,596 --> 00:25:04,196 Speaker 1: and they're not thinking to look at Cadillac. And Cadillac 408 00:25:04,236 --> 00:25:07,556 Speaker 1: can compete on every level and in some ways superior. 409 00:25:08,276 --> 00:25:11,276 Speaker 1: But I think that with the German car, it's been 410 00:25:11,396 --> 00:25:15,316 Speaker 1: so good for so long people take it for granted. 411 00:25:15,436 --> 00:25:19,556 Speaker 1: Like you look at the BMWM, even though it doesn't 412 00:25:19,596 --> 00:25:25,276 Speaker 1: go on these best car lists, it's what they're compared to. See, 413 00:25:25,316 --> 00:25:28,836 Speaker 1: everything's been compared to the M three. Since the M 414 00:25:28,916 --> 00:25:32,636 Speaker 1: three was made, it became the standard, and everything is 415 00:25:32,676 --> 00:25:35,516 Speaker 1: still compared to the M three, even the M three 416 00:25:35,836 --> 00:25:39,396 Speaker 1: is compared to prior M three's Yeah right, Still, we 417 00:25:39,516 --> 00:25:42,516 Speaker 1: kind of take for granted the excellence of German cars, 418 00:25:42,796 --> 00:25:45,756 Speaker 1: and while they do sometimes sit on their laurels. They'll 419 00:25:45,796 --> 00:25:49,116 Speaker 1: make something like that M two and say, oh, yeah, 420 00:25:49,116 --> 00:25:51,676 Speaker 1: we could still do it. We still have some that 421 00:25:51,716 --> 00:25:54,156 Speaker 1: are you know, but that's annoying that they choose not 422 00:25:54,236 --> 00:25:56,836 Speaker 1: to and they do spend more time on like the 423 00:25:56,916 --> 00:25:59,836 Speaker 1: sound of the door chimes than they do on the steering. 424 00:26:00,196 --> 00:26:03,556 Speaker 1: It's ridiculous, unfortunate, But I think that is the broad 425 00:26:03,676 --> 00:26:07,276 Speaker 1: level marketing aspect. Let's face it, we're enthusiasts. They're not 426 00:26:07,356 --> 00:26:11,156 Speaker 1: worried about us. Okay, they're they're gonna make a few 427 00:26:11,196 --> 00:26:14,316 Speaker 1: toys for us, but they're worried about the broad level marketing. 428 00:26:14,396 --> 00:26:17,356 Speaker 1: Like you were saying, Malcolm, they're worried about what your spouses. 429 00:26:17,396 --> 00:26:20,836 Speaker 1: But even the enthusiasts Alonzo are turning their backs on 430 00:26:20,996 --> 00:26:23,356 Speaker 1: BMW's and say they're not as good as they were. 431 00:26:23,396 --> 00:26:25,876 Speaker 1: And if you if you ignore that, if you don't 432 00:26:25,996 --> 00:26:29,916 Speaker 1: really serve that enthusiast really really well, then the rest 433 00:26:29,956 --> 00:26:32,836 Speaker 1: of it kind of becomes meaningless. Like you know, the 434 00:26:32,876 --> 00:26:35,916 Speaker 1: center can't hold you have to really It's it's sort 435 00:26:35,916 --> 00:26:37,916 Speaker 1: of like what we talked about with the Corvette, Like 436 00:26:37,956 --> 00:26:42,036 Speaker 1: the Corvette is so good now that they can do 437 00:26:42,076 --> 00:26:45,116 Speaker 1: an SUV. The nine to eleven got so good that 438 00:26:45,196 --> 00:26:47,836 Speaker 1: they could do a cay En you know, and have it, 439 00:26:49,276 --> 00:26:52,036 Speaker 1: you know, have some integrity and not be like some 440 00:26:52,156 --> 00:26:54,596 Speaker 1: kind of cynical marketing exercise. And I think that's where 441 00:26:54,636 --> 00:26:57,036 Speaker 1: BMW is right now. It's kind of in the let's 442 00:26:57,076 --> 00:27:00,356 Speaker 1: cash in on our reputation and sell a lot of 443 00:27:00,396 --> 00:27:04,436 Speaker 1: cars to you know, real estate agents in southern California. 444 00:27:04,836 --> 00:27:07,796 Speaker 1: Here's what my BMW thing is. You know, I have 445 00:27:07,916 --> 00:27:14,116 Speaker 1: a twenty fourteen X one which was based on the 446 00:27:14,516 --> 00:27:19,356 Speaker 1: Was it on the platform of the three series? Yeah? Yeah? 447 00:27:19,756 --> 00:27:23,756 Speaker 1: It breaks down like clockwork every four months, and every 448 00:27:23,756 --> 00:27:25,876 Speaker 1: time I take it in it costs me thousands and 449 00:27:25,996 --> 00:27:29,996 Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. It's like, got too many miles on it. 450 00:27:29,996 --> 00:27:32,076 Speaker 1: It's a pain in the ass. I don't get rid 451 00:27:32,116 --> 00:27:36,356 Speaker 1: of it. Why because the steering is so sublime. And 452 00:27:36,556 --> 00:27:40,316 Speaker 1: every time I drive a new BMW, I am filled 453 00:27:40,356 --> 00:27:45,196 Speaker 1: with rage that they they had the driving experience nailed 454 00:27:45,396 --> 00:27:47,756 Speaker 1: and they went backwards and I just can't. I can't 455 00:27:47,756 --> 00:27:51,476 Speaker 1: get over that hump. I'm like, dude, my decrepit X 456 00:27:51,516 --> 00:27:54,636 Speaker 1: one from twenty fourteen. You get behind the wheel and 457 00:27:54,636 --> 00:27:57,236 Speaker 1: you're just happy. You feel betrayed, right, feel betrayed. I 458 00:27:57,276 --> 00:28:00,476 Speaker 1: totally feel betrayed. The idea that the brand would depart 459 00:28:00,596 --> 00:28:04,236 Speaker 1: from one of their strongest suits for whatever reason, it's 460 00:28:04,276 --> 00:28:09,316 Speaker 1: just infuriating to me. Well, refuting these insinuation that I'm 461 00:28:09,316 --> 00:28:12,596 Speaker 1: an old fogy, I did put you know the new 462 00:28:13,076 --> 00:28:17,356 Speaker 1: Hyundai Ionic five on this list, which to me is 463 00:28:17,476 --> 00:28:22,636 Speaker 1: maybe it's not an aspirational vehicle, but it looks so cool. 464 00:28:23,316 --> 00:28:27,636 Speaker 1: It looks like an eight bit, you know, lancha Delta 465 00:28:27,676 --> 00:28:31,756 Speaker 1: integrally like the styling really pushes a lot of gen 466 00:28:31,996 --> 00:28:34,516 Speaker 1: X buttons for me. Have you guys seen these things 467 00:28:34,556 --> 00:28:37,676 Speaker 1: on the road I have? It's funny, you know, I 468 00:28:37,676 --> 00:28:42,276 Speaker 1: have a friend who is a a classic east Side 469 00:28:42,596 --> 00:28:48,236 Speaker 1: LA progressive, so, you know, long conversations about what she eats, 470 00:28:48,836 --> 00:28:52,036 Speaker 1: progressive politics, you know, blah blah blah, blah blah. She 471 00:28:52,116 --> 00:28:54,476 Speaker 1: emails me and says, I think I gotta get a 472 00:28:54,476 --> 00:28:58,716 Speaker 1: new car because my prius stio money miles on it. 473 00:28:59,076 --> 00:29:01,476 Speaker 1: What should I get? I'm thinking maybe a used Volvo. 474 00:29:01,556 --> 00:29:04,076 Speaker 1: And I said, first of all, if you get a Volvo, 475 00:29:04,076 --> 00:29:07,596 Speaker 1: I'm not speaking to you again, but exactly, you have 476 00:29:07,636 --> 00:29:12,236 Speaker 1: only two choices. I said, you can get a golf er. Well, 477 00:29:12,276 --> 00:29:15,636 Speaker 1: you can get an Ionic. And I said, if you 478 00:29:15,676 --> 00:29:18,116 Speaker 1: can find an Ionic, that should be your first choice. 479 00:29:18,876 --> 00:29:21,636 Speaker 1: I don't know how she found one. Two weeks later 480 00:29:21,716 --> 00:29:24,636 Speaker 1: she calls me, up, I have an Ionic, and then 481 00:29:25,076 --> 00:29:27,436 Speaker 1: I saw her in La was driving around it. It's 482 00:29:28,676 --> 00:29:31,396 Speaker 1: it's a fantastic car. The thing it's baffling to me 483 00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:35,436 Speaker 1: about it is it looks like it's a hatchback. It's 484 00:29:35,476 --> 00:29:37,516 Speaker 1: a big car that somehow I don't know what they 485 00:29:37,596 --> 00:29:40,316 Speaker 1: did with the styling. It's so confusing. The proportion I 486 00:29:40,356 --> 00:29:43,796 Speaker 1: thing is spacious and looks like it's, you know, this 487 00:29:43,996 --> 00:29:47,156 Speaker 1: modest little but it's gorge the size of a palisade. 488 00:29:47,556 --> 00:29:50,156 Speaker 1: So weird. I can't even wrap my mind around that. 489 00:29:50,356 --> 00:29:52,756 Speaker 1: But it is. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful car. It's 490 00:29:52,756 --> 00:29:55,556 Speaker 1: like the future we were promised in the eighties. Yeah right, 491 00:29:55,836 --> 00:29:59,276 Speaker 1: I will say that. In my neighborhood, in my part 492 00:29:59,276 --> 00:30:03,356 Speaker 1: of La this was the ultimate Ionic compliment on the 493 00:30:03,396 --> 00:30:07,396 Speaker 1: next door app. These Ionic people were telling the Tesla 494 00:30:07,476 --> 00:30:10,756 Speaker 1: people to get rid of their test and get an Iona. 495 00:30:11,716 --> 00:30:15,396 Speaker 1: I think it's the same. It was a whole it 496 00:30:15,476 --> 00:30:17,716 Speaker 1: was a whole thing on the app. They were like, yeah, 497 00:30:17,836 --> 00:30:20,476 Speaker 1: get rid of your Tesla, get the Ionic. You're gonna 498 00:30:20,516 --> 00:30:23,076 Speaker 1: love it. And I do see, I do see Ionics 499 00:30:23,436 --> 00:30:26,516 Speaker 1: rolling around here, and it looks like it's the it's 500 00:30:26,636 --> 00:30:29,716 Speaker 1: the car. I was traveling a lot recently and decided 501 00:30:29,756 --> 00:30:32,396 Speaker 1: to rent teslas, you know, rent teslas from her. So 502 00:30:32,436 --> 00:30:35,116 Speaker 1: I was like, I got my whole Tesla experience down 503 00:30:35,556 --> 00:30:41,476 Speaker 1: and was so appalled by the bill quality that it's 504 00:30:41,516 --> 00:30:45,676 Speaker 1: just an appliance and it's so ugly inside, and I'm 505 00:30:45,716 --> 00:30:50,636 Speaker 1: just like, an Ionic is is truly one generation beyond 506 00:30:50,636 --> 00:30:52,796 Speaker 1: the Teslas. So what LUNs It was saying with the 507 00:30:52,796 --> 00:30:55,716 Speaker 1: neighbors telling their tests of people, that is absolutely right. 508 00:30:55,796 --> 00:30:58,956 Speaker 1: Like Testa was a starter car, It's always been the 509 00:30:58,996 --> 00:31:01,116 Speaker 1: car for people who don't like cars, and now we 510 00:31:01,196 --> 00:31:04,196 Speaker 1: have an electric car or the first of a whole 511 00:31:04,236 --> 00:31:06,396 Speaker 1: group of electric cars that are electric cars to people 512 00:31:06,436 --> 00:31:11,116 Speaker 1: who actually like autobiles. But with the lyric lyric net category, 513 00:31:11,636 --> 00:31:14,756 Speaker 1: the Ionic is a couple of others the lyrics in 514 00:31:14,796 --> 00:31:16,716 Speaker 1: there too, and that makes But you know the thing 515 00:31:16,756 --> 00:31:20,516 Speaker 1: about the evs is that the ecosystem around them is 516 00:31:20,556 --> 00:31:23,756 Speaker 1: as important as the car itself. You know your iPhone app. 517 00:31:23,956 --> 00:31:28,196 Speaker 1: The charging infrastructure, and that's where Tesla wins. They have 518 00:31:28,356 --> 00:31:33,436 Speaker 1: the supercharger network that's really Musk's own utility. It's the best, 519 00:31:33,476 --> 00:31:39,556 Speaker 1: it's super reliable. The actual Electrify America charging stations are 520 00:31:39,676 --> 00:31:42,276 Speaker 1: always broken down, they always suck, or somebody's park their 521 00:31:42,276 --> 00:31:44,316 Speaker 1: f one fifty in front of it just to spite you, 522 00:31:45,076 --> 00:31:48,596 Speaker 1: and you know, it's like Tesla really has that part down. 523 00:31:48,756 --> 00:31:51,956 Speaker 1: But I completely agree, like this is a step change 524 00:31:52,756 --> 00:31:56,916 Speaker 1: beyond a Model three, but I still feel like it's 525 00:31:56,996 --> 00:32:01,276 Speaker 1: missing something so big, and that big thing is the 526 00:32:01,356 --> 00:32:07,356 Speaker 1: reciprocating internal combustion engine. Well that's that's a whole different argument. 527 00:32:07,396 --> 00:32:09,676 Speaker 1: I will say. One of the problems with evs you 528 00:32:09,796 --> 00:32:12,836 Speaker 1: talked about it they need to standardize it. It's not 529 00:32:12,956 --> 00:32:17,676 Speaker 1: like cars have different gas nozzles, so you have to 530 00:32:17,716 --> 00:32:20,836 Speaker 1: have different gas stations, you know. Now, I'll throw something 531 00:32:20,836 --> 00:32:25,156 Speaker 1: else out with Tesla that that they have developed both 532 00:32:25,196 --> 00:32:29,916 Speaker 1: through the initial owners and Elon Musk. There's a certain 533 00:32:30,036 --> 00:32:32,836 Speaker 1: douche factor to having a Tesla, like, oh, you're one 534 00:32:32,876 --> 00:32:35,556 Speaker 1: of them, You're a Tesla person, you know what I mean? 535 00:32:35,636 --> 00:32:40,476 Speaker 1: And the ionic doesn't carry that baggage. I know, as 536 00:32:40,556 --> 00:32:44,916 Speaker 1: a motorcyclist, when I'm riding around La and I see 537 00:32:44,956 --> 00:32:49,156 Speaker 1: a Tesla, I assume that driver isn't driving the car, 538 00:32:49,476 --> 00:32:52,476 Speaker 1: that it's an automatic, and that that car might kill me. 539 00:32:52,636 --> 00:32:57,036 Speaker 1: You know, there's there's a certain baggage that goes with 540 00:32:57,156 --> 00:33:00,356 Speaker 1: owning them, and as far as the interiors they have 541 00:33:00,516 --> 00:33:03,716 Speaker 1: become you know, for the amount of car costs, it's like, 542 00:33:03,716 --> 00:33:07,876 Speaker 1: what is this cheap plastic interior that's going up? Like 543 00:33:08,436 --> 00:33:11,476 Speaker 1: they're not unique enough anymore to put up with that. 544 00:33:11,556 --> 00:33:13,716 Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, you have a Tesla. Now it's 545 00:33:13,756 --> 00:33:17,276 Speaker 1: just another car, especially here in LA and you know 546 00:33:17,316 --> 00:33:20,156 Speaker 1: in some places they're still unique. In La they are, 547 00:33:20,316 --> 00:33:24,316 Speaker 1: they are Diame a dozen, They're everywhere, and I don't 548 00:33:24,316 --> 00:33:26,356 Speaker 1: know who would pay that kind of money for that 549 00:33:27,036 --> 00:33:32,916 Speaker 1: level of quality. Like Malcolm was talking about, when we 550 00:33:32,956 --> 00:33:45,476 Speaker 1: come back our winner for Car of the Year. So 551 00:33:45,476 --> 00:33:48,836 Speaker 1: we've got we've eliminated one, we've been talking about about 552 00:33:48,836 --> 00:33:50,636 Speaker 1: the other three. Do you have Do you have any 553 00:33:50,756 --> 00:33:54,396 Speaker 1: kind of feelings about about about rankings here? Well, I 554 00:33:54,396 --> 00:34:00,196 Speaker 1: think that the Ionic rises above the Tesla and indeed 555 00:34:00,396 --> 00:34:04,996 Speaker 1: many other evs, and it's really kind of important and 556 00:34:05,036 --> 00:34:08,556 Speaker 1: a significant breakthrough, but it's going to be surpassed in 557 00:34:08,676 --> 00:34:11,516 Speaker 1: three years years by something with more range and more power. 558 00:34:12,316 --> 00:34:16,716 Speaker 1: So I think that's probably our third place finalists. What 559 00:34:17,036 --> 00:34:19,836 Speaker 1: do you guys think I'd agree with that? Here's here's 560 00:34:19,876 --> 00:34:22,836 Speaker 1: the heuristic I would use to evaluate who we should 561 00:34:22,996 --> 00:34:26,356 Speaker 1: who should be number one, and that is five years 562 00:34:26,436 --> 00:34:31,996 Speaker 1: from now, would we understand the ranking. So you know 563 00:34:32,076 --> 00:34:35,636 Speaker 1: how there's some years with the Oscars where the pick 564 00:34:35,876 --> 00:34:38,276 Speaker 1: for Best Picture makes sense in the moment, and then 565 00:34:38,276 --> 00:34:41,756 Speaker 1: five years later you're like, wait they did, Like like 566 00:34:41,836 --> 00:34:45,956 Speaker 1: remember that movie Crash, Yeah, didn't crashin Best Picture. Like 567 00:34:46,076 --> 00:34:47,916 Speaker 1: there is not a person on the face of the 568 00:34:47,956 --> 00:34:50,076 Speaker 1: earth who thinks the Crash deserve Best Picture that year. 569 00:34:50,676 --> 00:34:52,716 Speaker 1: It's or like in basketball, you know there are some 570 00:34:52,836 --> 00:34:55,556 Speaker 1: number one picks. You're like, wait, Anthony Bennett was the 571 00:34:55,636 --> 00:34:58,436 Speaker 1: number of what he was number number two pick or 572 00:34:58,516 --> 00:35:00,876 Speaker 1: something like. It's that kind of thing. So five years 573 00:35:00,876 --> 00:35:02,956 Speaker 1: from now, are we going to be puzzled if we 574 00:35:03,036 --> 00:35:05,156 Speaker 1: put the ionic first? I think yes, we would be 575 00:35:05,156 --> 00:35:08,916 Speaker 1: puzzled because the field is going to progress so rapidly. 576 00:35:09,476 --> 00:35:12,396 Speaker 1: It really does come down to which of these two 577 00:35:13,476 --> 00:35:17,276 Speaker 1: perfect expressions of a traditional model we want to hold 578 00:35:17,316 --> 00:35:21,076 Speaker 1: up to posterity and say this is as good as 579 00:35:21,076 --> 00:35:24,916 Speaker 1: it got with the kind of analog sports dent, which 580 00:35:25,116 --> 00:35:27,956 Speaker 1: you know, it's down to the vet versus the black wing. 581 00:35:28,036 --> 00:35:30,116 Speaker 1: Which which of those is the better? Is the thing 582 00:35:30,116 --> 00:35:32,876 Speaker 1: that would that's five years from now we say, yeah, 583 00:35:32,956 --> 00:35:34,596 Speaker 1: that was man, that was the end of an era, 584 00:35:34,676 --> 00:35:37,916 Speaker 1: and like that was the right car to pick. Well, 585 00:35:37,916 --> 00:35:40,236 Speaker 1: I think using that criteria, it has to be the 586 00:35:40,316 --> 00:35:43,796 Speaker 1: Black Wing, because in five years that doesn't exist exactly. 587 00:35:44,236 --> 00:35:47,436 Speaker 1: You know, there will be supercars from here to infinity, 588 00:35:47,916 --> 00:35:52,676 Speaker 1: small batch supercars. They can slip past the regulators noses. 589 00:35:52,996 --> 00:35:57,036 Speaker 1: But a sports dan like this with this crazy almost 590 00:35:57,076 --> 00:36:01,276 Speaker 1: seven horsepower engine and a stick and all this torque 591 00:36:01,756 --> 00:36:06,156 Speaker 1: and just an absolutely perfect expression of what a sports 592 00:36:06,196 --> 00:36:10,036 Speaker 1: stand should be, which is a sports car with four doors. Yeah, 593 00:36:10,156 --> 00:36:13,236 Speaker 1: it's the Black Wing. And I'd also like to say, 594 00:36:14,236 --> 00:36:17,796 Speaker 1: is there any cooler name than black Wing? It's best, 595 00:36:18,236 --> 00:36:22,436 Speaker 1: It's the best. I want one. Well, another thing is 596 00:36:22,756 --> 00:36:25,716 Speaker 1: m and Malcolm you touched on it is the daily 597 00:36:25,796 --> 00:36:28,996 Speaker 1: driver aspect, you know. That's also the insane thing that 598 00:36:29,396 --> 00:36:32,676 Speaker 1: the Black Wing. I mean, the Corvette is a stretch 599 00:36:32,756 --> 00:36:35,716 Speaker 1: as a daily driver, right, I mean you might have 600 00:36:35,796 --> 00:36:39,156 Speaker 1: to carry luggage one day or you know, and the 601 00:36:39,236 --> 00:36:43,156 Speaker 1: Black Wing is so easy to live with if it's 602 00:36:43,156 --> 00:36:45,276 Speaker 1: your only car. You could live with that as your 603 00:36:45,276 --> 00:36:48,996 Speaker 1: only car, your daily driver, like you said, and every 604 00:36:49,076 --> 00:36:51,796 Speaker 1: day be comfortable and commute and this and that, and 605 00:36:51,836 --> 00:36:53,756 Speaker 1: then every now and then put your foot in it 606 00:36:53,796 --> 00:36:56,876 Speaker 1: and go berserk and absolutely love it. And then bring 607 00:36:57,436 --> 00:36:59,916 Speaker 1: it back down and not so. I think that also. 608 00:37:00,676 --> 00:37:03,156 Speaker 1: That's another reason the black wing goes at the top 609 00:37:03,196 --> 00:37:05,756 Speaker 1: of this It's gonna make it like it's it's gonna 610 00:37:05,796 --> 00:37:08,036 Speaker 1: be one of those cars that really, I think lasts 611 00:37:08,236 --> 00:37:11,476 Speaker 1: to your point, Malcolm, you know, this is a Citizen 612 00:37:11,556 --> 00:37:14,036 Speaker 1: Kane type of car that we talk about for a 613 00:37:14,076 --> 00:37:18,596 Speaker 1: long time. It's like a Citron sm you know, like, wow, 614 00:37:18,596 --> 00:37:22,036 Speaker 1: how did they do that? You know, it's just got 615 00:37:22,196 --> 00:37:28,076 Speaker 1: so much engineering integrity, so much design integrity. It's just 616 00:37:28,156 --> 00:37:30,836 Speaker 1: so well thought out that it's it's just going to last. 617 00:37:30,916 --> 00:37:35,596 Speaker 1: And you know, one of my maxims is that time 618 00:37:35,716 --> 00:37:39,236 Speaker 1: equals value. They spent more time on this car than 619 00:37:39,276 --> 00:37:42,036 Speaker 1: anything else probably on this list except maybe the Zeo six. 620 00:37:43,116 --> 00:37:47,356 Speaker 1: I think that's going to translate into lasting value. We're 621 00:37:47,356 --> 00:37:49,476 Speaker 1: gonna want this car for a very very long time. 622 00:37:49,516 --> 00:37:52,476 Speaker 1: We're going to work back and go. Man, that was 623 00:37:52,516 --> 00:37:57,596 Speaker 1: the peak of something. Yeah, agreed, agreed, Wow, Malcolm, you're right. 624 00:37:58,076 --> 00:38:01,276 Speaker 1: Eddie's going to go to work for Consumer Reports. I mean, 625 00:38:01,356 --> 00:38:04,196 Speaker 1: no matter where he goes, it comes back to value 626 00:38:04,636 --> 00:38:08,636 Speaker 1: all mister value. Edie. He's going to run the car 627 00:38:08,676 --> 00:38:17,716 Speaker 1: division Walmart Car Show is written and hosted by me 628 00:38:18,156 --> 00:38:22,396 Speaker 1: Eddie Alterman. It's produced by Emily Rosstek and Jacob Smith. 629 00:38:22,956 --> 00:38:27,516 Speaker 1: Our editor is Karen Shakerjee. Original music and mastering by 630 00:38:27,556 --> 00:38:32,276 Speaker 1: Ben Tolliday. Our executive producer is Mia lo Bell. Our 631 00:38:32,316 --> 00:38:35,436 Speaker 1: show art was designed by Sean Karney and air rushed 632 00:38:35,476 --> 00:38:39,876 Speaker 1: by Greg la Fever. Our patron Saints as always are We, 633 00:38:40,036 --> 00:38:44,316 Speaker 1: Tom Allad and Justine Lang. Car Show is a production 634 00:38:44,316 --> 00:38:48,036 Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. 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