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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, it's me your old pal Josh, And for

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Speaker 1: this week's select, I've chosen our twenty twenty episode on spiritualism, which,

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Speaker 1: as you might be able to tell from the first

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Speaker 1: couple of minutes, was recorded during the height of the

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Speaker 1: COVID pandemic. But that's not why I chose this one.

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Speaker 1: I chose it because it's been coming up a lot

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Speaker 1: lately for some reason in episode after episode, which I've

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Speaker 1: taken as a sign to choose this as a select.

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Speaker 1: But it's also kind of made me think about all

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Speaker 1: of the back and forth I've gone through in my life.

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Speaker 1: Is there an afterlife? Is there not an afterlife? Who knows?

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Speaker 1: That's where I'm at right now. Who knows. So maybe

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Speaker 1: listen to this episode about the spiritualism movement and see

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Speaker 1: what you think about the whole thing. Enjoy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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Speaker 1: Charles W Chuck Bryan over there somewhere in the heart

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Speaker 1: of darkness. I'm in the office, dude, where I hear

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Speaker 1: your voice, Chuck, but I can't see you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know why people need to

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Speaker 2: know the behind the scenes things. But home recording provides

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Speaker 2: some challenges and I was getting pretty frustrated. So I

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Speaker 2: was like, you know what, I'm going to go to

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Speaker 2: the studio yep, because I know it'll sound great in here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I know there won't be dogs and children and

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Speaker 2: everyone should feel good about it because I have not

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Speaker 2: seen another human being.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in the building. Didn't a security guard.

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Speaker 1: Didn't a security guard try to run you off the

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Speaker 1: road when you were parking?

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Speaker 2: He didn't try. He stopped me literally in the parking lot.

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Speaker 2: I was like, what are you doing here? I was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to my job, and he said, okay.

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Speaker 4: He said stay home, save lives.

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Speaker 3: But before we left, I mean I apparently since I left. Uh,

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Speaker 3: they have these.

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Speaker 2: There's a bottle of microphone sanitizer. Whoa, there are headphone

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Speaker 2: sanitized or not sanitized, but just disposable headphone covers. Sweet,

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Speaker 2: And I feel more safe here than I do at

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Speaker 2: my house.

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Speaker 1: What a microphone sanitizer? That sounds really made up?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's We'll go ahead and buzz market. No I

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Speaker 2: won't because it smells bad and I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: buzz market. And then say it smells bad. It's apple flavor, whoa,

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Speaker 2: which would make Emily just like turn over in her bed.

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Speaker 1: It's a good, jolly rancher flavor. Not the best scent, though.

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Speaker 3: I hate it when they add scent to stuff that

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Speaker 3: doesn't need scent.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, agreed.

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Speaker 3: Try finding an unscented garbage back these days.

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Speaker 1: Uh is it tough to Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Man, every single one of them. I even got some

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Speaker 2: that said unscented and it still smells like.

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Speaker 1: You've missed it. In parentheses underneath it says mostly we

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Speaker 1: can't help ourselves. Rosemary, Well, I don't have my over

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Speaker 1: the ear headphones right now.

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Speaker 4: I just yeah, so I'm look one.

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Speaker 1: Of Yumy's long scarves wrapped around my head twice to

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Speaker 1: keep from your audio bleeding onto the track through my microphone.

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Speaker 2: You either look like Lawrence of Arabia or like you

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Speaker 2: just wandered in with a head entry.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I had to.

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Speaker 1: It kept slipping off with the Lawrence of Arabia looks,

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Speaker 1: so I had to do it the other way around.

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Speaker 1: So now it looks like I have a nineteenth century toothache.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, to me another picture.

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Speaker 1: It's not It's not very comfortable. My Adam's apple is

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Speaker 1: being pressed towards the back of my throat right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what was the deal with that whole toothache thing?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 3: Was there ice in there or something?

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Speaker 2: Or was it just like just tie their gin shut

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Speaker 2: and it'll help.

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Speaker 1: Knowing that era, there were probably some sort of like

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Speaker 1: razor blade and heroin concoction that would just scrape the

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Speaker 1: area where the tooth was and inject you with dope

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Speaker 1: to keep you from complaining.

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Speaker 2: Doctor uh, doctor Payne's new chin wrap now with more leeches.

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Speaker 1: All right, from the makers of microphone sanitizer.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's get into this. We've already been goofing

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Speaker 2: around for too long. Let's just finish. Fine, just get

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Speaker 2: this over with.

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Speaker 1: Let's get serious and talk about spiritualism, shall we.

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Speaker 3: This is a great, great job by Grabster, a great

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Speaker 3: idea by you. Yeah, and it'll be a great.

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Speaker 4: Episode, yeah, grabs Her.

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Speaker 1: We asked them to help us out with this, so

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Speaker 1: we put together a world class article for us. And

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Speaker 1: when we asked him, we said, hey, how about spiritualism?

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Speaker 1: He because my brother wrote his dissertation on that should

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Speaker 1: be simple and me.

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Speaker 4: Just forwarded us that.

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Speaker 1: Right it did. He didn't even like erase his brother's

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Speaker 1: first name. He just did a strikethrough and wrote.

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Speaker 3: Ed after it easy Money.

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Speaker 1: So it is like a really really interesting phenomenon and

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Speaker 1: something I think we kind of take for granted because

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Speaker 1: it pops up everywhere in our world in pop culture.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a part of everything from crystal

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Speaker 1: balls to seances, to Ouiji boards to tarot cards, all.

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Speaker 4: Of this stuff. Movies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as a matter of fact, I ran across so

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Speaker 1: you know Dan Akroyd's hugeno UFOs, right.

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Speaker 3: I did know that.

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Speaker 1: Actually, he's also enormous into spirits and ghosts. It's actually

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Speaker 1: one of the impetuses. Yeah, I think so of him

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Speaker 1: writing Ghostbusters. He's actually a fourth generation spiritualist with a

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Speaker 1: capital S, like the Church spiritualism.

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Speaker 4: He was raised that way.

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Speaker 1: His father, grandfather, and great grandfather were all spiritualists and

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Speaker 1: that's how he was raised as well. So it does

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Speaker 1: just kind of it's so permeated our culture. It's weird

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Speaker 1: to think of a time when it wasn't there. But

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Speaker 1: there actually was this period starting in right about in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the nineteenth century going well into the

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Speaker 1: twentieth century where there was a movement that basically said,

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Speaker 1: the spirit world is there, it exists. When you die,

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Speaker 1: your personality survives, and some people actually have a talent

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Speaker 1: for communicating with the spirits in the spirit world, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to start doing that. And that was spiritualism,

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Speaker 1: the spiritualist movement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Ed pointed out, which we should as well,

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Speaker 2: that ghosts and things like that and ghost stories they

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Speaker 2: had been around since people had been around. Everyone since

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Speaker 2: the dawn of humankind has tried to figure out what

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Speaker 2: happens after you die. Do people visit, do they take on,

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Speaker 2: you know, other forms or whatever. So that's different than

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about. What we're talking about is spiritualism

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Speaker 2: in that it became a big scam and way to

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Speaker 2: get money out of people who are in pain from

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Speaker 2: a friend's or loved one's death.

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Speaker 1: Sadly, yeah, yeah, for sure, but there is like a

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Speaker 1: throw a thread through there where this same era, the

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Speaker 1: same period, and this belief in communicating with the spirits

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Speaker 1: and the idea that you could go to a seance

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Speaker 1: and talk to your dead loved one or whatever. It

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Speaker 1: produced this other group of people who said, yes, there

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Speaker 1: are tons of fraudsters and hucksters out there, who are

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Speaker 1: taking advantage of this.

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Speaker 4: But there's also this real.

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Speaker 1: There's the real version of it actually does exist, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to apply this newfangled thing called science to

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Speaker 1: investigate it. And that produced that era of people like

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Speaker 1: Charles Fort or Harry Price who visited the Borley Rectory,

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Speaker 1: the most haunted place in England, or Sir Arthur Conan

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Speaker 1: Doyle like those guys. I know, I'm trying, not a

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Speaker 1: new version to these guys though they were they believed

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Speaker 1: in this stuff and the possibility of it. They also

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Speaker 1: believed in the possibility of applying science to it. And

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Speaker 1: even if science couldn't explain it, it didn't mean that

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Speaker 1: it didn't exist. And then there was another group who

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Speaker 1: were what we would recognize today is like pure skeptics,

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Speaker 1: like the James Randys of the day, who all followed

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Speaker 1: in the footsteps of Harry Houdini. Is we'll see who

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Speaker 1: kind of created this. So you had hucksters, believers who

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Speaker 1: were skeptical, and genuine pure skeptics who believed none of

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Speaker 1: it was correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and what I mentioned before, like all the previous

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Speaker 2: attempts to do stuff like this pre mid eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 2: in largely the Northeast United States. It was more religious

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Speaker 2: like prophets and shaman and stuff like that. Spiritualism was

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Speaker 2: the birth of the Madam Kleios of the world. Ed

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Speaker 2: refers to it as a democratization, and that's one way

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Speaker 2: to look at it. But it was the idea that hey,

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Speaker 2: if you are chosen and you are special, you could

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Speaker 2: you know, it's not like you have to be some

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Speaker 2: religious leader, you can just be a regular person with

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Speaker 2: the gift exactly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Which was a huge sea change. And there are basically

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Speaker 1: a few things that kind of came together for this mentality,

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Speaker 1: this fertile kind of imagination of this pocket of America

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Speaker 1: and western New York where all of this began to

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Speaker 1: kind of take shape. And one of those things was

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Speaker 1: the frontier, this frontier mentality. The historian Frederick Jackson Turner

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Speaker 1: called it the significance of the frontier in American history,

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Speaker 1: and he basically said, man, the people who are living

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Speaker 1: out there on the frontier, they're living on the edge

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Speaker 1: of civilization, the leading edge right right beyond that what

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Speaker 1: they're coming up against. And this is highly debatable because

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Speaker 1: part of what they were coming up against was Native America.

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Speaker 1: It just wasn't a civilization in the Forum that any

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Speaker 1: European had ever encountered before. But the idea was that

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Speaker 1: the people who are living on the frontier and expanding

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Speaker 1: westward were basically being forced just by virtue of having

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Speaker 1: to survive under these weird conditions outside of culture and

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Speaker 1: civilization in the European sense, that they were having to

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Speaker 1: abandon that culture and basically make it up as they

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Speaker 1: went along and recreate a new culture from the frontier,

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Speaker 1: and that that just kind of threw the rules out

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Speaker 1: the window.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one of my favorite things when we

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Speaker 2: do topics, that when you can look back at a

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Speaker 2: movement and point to factors that at any other time

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Speaker 2: in history, if just one of these might not have

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Speaker 2: taken you know, might not have influenced it, that it

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Speaker 2: might not have happened at all. There's something about that

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Speaker 2: that I've always really loved. And this is a perfect example.

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Speaker 2: The frontier life is one. Religious fervor is another, and

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Speaker 2: specifically in New York in the eighteen hundreds, people were

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Speaker 2: really caught up on this religious fervor and it kind

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Speaker 2: of went from town to town and there was no

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Speaker 2: there was no big religious authorities in the area that

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Speaker 2: were out on the frontier, they had no structured hierarchy

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Speaker 2: of religion, and so again they could just make up stuff.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that's not tied to this next sentence,

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Speaker 2: because I don't want to turn anyone off, but a

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Speaker 2: lot of religions sprang out from this region during that time,

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Speaker 2: like Millerism and Mormonism and Quakers and Shakers kind of

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Speaker 2: had a resurgence, basically as shot in the arm, just

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Speaker 2: because of this fervor going on the time.

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Speaker 1: And I couldn't quite put where Millerism why it seems

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Speaker 1: so familiar, And then I remember that that was the

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Speaker 1: woman who gave birth eventually to the Seventh day Adventists,

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Speaker 1: and that popped up in the Kellogg episode. Remember yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Millerism was where it all started. But that was And

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Speaker 1: that really kind of indicates I love it when things,

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Speaker 1: just things we've talked about before, like have even more

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Speaker 1: context from something else. But that just kind of goes

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Speaker 1: to show you, like, this is the kind of place

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Speaker 1: where somebody could be like I'm in contact with the spirits,

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Speaker 1: or Jesus came and hung out with me or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and this is what I know, And what I've been told,

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Speaker 1: So let's start a religion based on it. And not

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Speaker 1: even necessarily just religions too, but also like social movements

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Speaker 1: like utopian societies where.

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Speaker 3: And chew your food twenty times so you'll poopies here.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, or you know, women have equal rights as men,

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Speaker 1: which is just completely radical. Or how about fifty of

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Speaker 1: us lived and just by the fact that we all

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Speaker 1: lived together, we're married according to this utopian society, just

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Speaker 1: whatever you wanted to do, you kind of could because

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Speaker 1: the frontier threw the rules out the window, or at

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Speaker 1: the very least cultural traditions that most people are raised into.

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Speaker 1: When that's not there, people make up their.

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Speaker 3: Own, Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: And the third big factor that you mentioned was or

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Speaker 2: we haven't talked about yet with science, and you talked

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Speaker 2: a little bit about science at the beginning, but the

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Speaker 2: idea that in the middle of the Industrial Revolution, when

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Speaker 2: we're really learning a lot more than we ever have

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Speaker 2: about science and things like elect electromagnetism and things that

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Speaker 2: you can't see but science.

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Speaker 3: Are saying, oh it's there.

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Speaker 2: This kind of fed the spiritualist movement because you know,

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Speaker 2: that's something else that you can't see, that other people

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Speaker 2: are saying is there. So they're like, well, hey, if

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Speaker 2: science is saying there are things out there we can't

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Speaker 2: quite explain, but trust me it's real, then why shouldn't

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Speaker 2: I believe this stuff too?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Or well this electric like electromagnetism, maybe that actually explains

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Speaker 1: how spirits survive. After that, it was a really wide

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Speaker 1: open time as far as you know, acceptance of possibilities

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Speaker 1: rather than no science has said this is not possible,

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Speaker 1: or it can't explain this, or you can't see it

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Speaker 1: with your own eyes, so it won't. It doesn't, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't jibe like. There was a lot more willingness among

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Speaker 1: people who were scientifically minded to say, well, maybe this

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Speaker 1: is a good explanation of that.

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Speaker 4: Let's investigate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the birth of science and medicine was a really

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Speaker 3: crazy time.

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Speaker 4: It really was. It really was.

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Speaker 3: So should we take a break?

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Speaker 2: Yes, come on, man, Yes, I think you're You're beard

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Speaker 2: Holster is on too tight.

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Speaker 1: I haven't been able to feel my nose for about

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Speaker 1: fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 2: All right, we'll go rub your nose and bring some

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Speaker 2: feeling back, and we'll talk about some of the chiritualists.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna say it spiritualists nice and there there

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Speaker 1: was actually so there was a bunch of factors that

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Speaker 1: led to the beginning of all of this, including there

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Speaker 1: was one that I also came across that we need

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Speaker 1: to mention, a guy named Andrew Jackson Davis, who combined

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Speaker 1: the ideas of the German hypnotist Franz Mesmer with the

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Speaker 1: Swedish philosopher of the soul, Emmanuel Swedenborg. They were both

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Speaker 1: eighteen century. He kind of brought him together and he

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Speaker 1: was a bit of a nobody, but he emerged very

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Speaker 1: very soon after the Fox Sisters became celebrities as a

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Speaker 1: founder of the spiritualist movement, almost like he was doing

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Speaker 1: it off in isolation at the same time that all

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Speaker 1: of us began.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the Fox Sisters figure into this really quite largely.

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Speaker 2: And you can even pinpoint a date to what you

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Speaker 2: might consider the birth of the modern American spiritualist movement

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Speaker 2: is March thirty one, eighteen forty eight, in Hydesville, New York,

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Speaker 2: near Rochester, at a farm. This Fox family lived there,

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Speaker 2: real people, not a family of cute little red for

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Speaker 2: fuzzy creatures.

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Speaker 1: Voiced by George Clooney exactly.

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Speaker 3: Mister missus Fox had three daughters.

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Speaker 2: Actually one was much older. Her name was Leah. She

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Speaker 2: was nineteen and twenty three years older. Why was that funny?

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Speaker 1: Because I saw a picture of her and she's like

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Speaker 1: the spitting image of Jeffrey Ross. Look her up, Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Ross's that's what Leah Fox looked like.

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Speaker 2: I didn't see. I saw the picture of the three

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Speaker 2: of them, and I didn't get a good close up.

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Speaker 2: That's an unfortunate look for him and her.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, anybody really? Uh?

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Speaker 3: And I think he would admit that too. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: he's doing.

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Speaker 4: All right though. What if he had really thin skin? Rosmaster?

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Speaker 1: He couldn't take a joke against himself. Have you seen

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Speaker 1: that bump in Mike Show? It's pretty good?

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Speaker 3: Uh? No? Is that the roast competition thing?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: He and David Tell just sit there and roast people.

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Speaker 1: It's really good.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 3: I used to love David Tel back in the day.

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Speaker 1: He has just turned into like the weird like comedy

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Speaker 1: genius friend that Jeffrey Ross has.

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Speaker 4: And it shines through in this awesome I'll check it out.

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Speaker 2: So the Fox family, older daughter Leah was nineteen and

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Speaker 2: twenty three years older than younger Kate and Maggie or

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Speaker 2: I guess Maggie and Kate if you're going in that order.

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Speaker 2: And on that night, on March thirty first, eighteen forty,

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Speaker 2: they heard these rapping knocking sounds and they didn't know

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Speaker 2: where it was coming from, and that kind of kickstarted

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Speaker 2: this whole thing.

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Speaker 3: In a weird way, this led and.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about the more specifics, but in a weird way,

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Speaker 2: this led to them eventually saying, wait a minute, we

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Speaker 2: can make some money if we convince people that young

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Speaker 2: Kate and Maggie are a conduit to the other side.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The thing is is like when it went from you know, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: there's a ghost rapping or knocking like a poultrygeist kind

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Speaker 1: of thing too. This ghost will respond to questions from

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Speaker 1: the sisters through rapping and knocking, like how old is

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Speaker 1: Maggie and it would rap like fifteen times or something

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Speaker 1: like that. And that really caught a lot of people's attention.

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Speaker 1: And Maggie and Kate moved in with Leah. And apparently,

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Speaker 1: from what I read, it was Leah whose idea it

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Speaker 1: was to take the show on the road try to

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Speaker 1: scam people out of money. It was not a super

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Speaker 1: great person and from what I read.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just sorry. I was thinking of a rapping

342
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 3: ghost and right gott sidetracked. I'm the ghost, George Washington.

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Speaker 3: I'm here to say I love fruity pebbles in a

344
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Speaker 3: mateor way. You know what's funny is I was going

345
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Speaker 3: to do that exact same thing, but for the Fox family.

346
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Speaker 3: That's like the go to rap for guys like us.

347
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Speaker 4: Oh, it totally is guys who can't wrap.

348
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm here to say something something, something in a

349
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Speaker 3: something way.

350
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Speaker 4: The Zach Morris method, I think, is what that is.

351
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Speaker 2: I wonder if that's based on an actual rap. I

352
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Speaker 2: guess there was one at some point that really did.

353
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Speaker 4: That, right, Yeah, I think Blondie was the popular.

354
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Speaker 3: My name is Blondie.

355
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Speaker 2: I'm here to say I'm gonna try rap because it's

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Speaker 2: popular today.

357
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Speaker 4: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: So what were you saying? I was laughing. I didn't

359
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Speaker 3: even notice.

360
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Oh, oh, just that it was basically I

361
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Speaker 1: was laying at Leah's feet for corrupting the younger sisters.

362
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Speaker 2: Yeah, she kind of. She ended up managing them as

363
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Speaker 2: a unit. I think later on, if I'm not mistaken,

364
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Speaker 2: But there aren't great records of everything going on at

365
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Speaker 2: the time, But the idea was that Kate and Maggie

366
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Speaker 2: were the ones. It wasn't really her parents, but they're

367
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Speaker 2: the ones who could actually communicate with this barn spirit.

368
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Speaker 2: And so they said, you know what, they not only

369
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Speaker 2: can talk to this spirit. Media starts, you know, getting

370
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Speaker 2: a hold of these stories. And obviously back then it

371
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Speaker 2: was a very big deal with something like this coming

372
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Speaker 2: out in the media with not a lot else going on.

373
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Speaker 2: But they moved and would go away to other places

374
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Speaker 2: and said, wherever they go, ghosts are talking to them.

375
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Speaker 2: So you guys, my daughters are talented and gifted. They're

376
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Speaker 2: not just talking to the what we think is a

377
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Speaker 2: murder victim from our previous house.

378
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Speaker 4: Right right, which just changed everything.

379
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Speaker 1: And also other suspiciously, Leah suddenly realized that she was

380
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Speaker 1: able to communicate with spirits too, So all three of

381
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: the sisters were able to But yeah, not just that

382
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Speaker 1: one murder victim in their house that had been the

383
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 1: original ghost, but just about any ghost. And this was

384
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 1: the beginning of the spiritualist movement. Basically a trank by

385
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Speaker 1: a couple of teenage girls that got way out of

386
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 1: hand really fast.

387
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so what do they do they start having

388
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Speaker 2: these private sessions where people would pay money, and they

389
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Speaker 2: would wear these big long dresses that were in fashion

390
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Speaker 2: at the time, and they would no one's exactly sure

391
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 2: the exact mechanism, but they would do some sort of

392
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Speaker 2: toe knocking or something where they couldn't be seen. And

393
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 2: that was the Morse code that they said was the

394
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Speaker 2: ghost speaking to them.

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Speaker 1: So it it's really they had like a little wooden

396
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 1: stool under the table with them, and they would take

397
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Speaker 1: off their shoes surreptitiously, and from what I can gather,

398
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: they could pop their knuckle of their toe up and

399
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Speaker 1: down with enough force that it would make a thud

400
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: on that wooden stool.

401
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 3: That's happy in and of itself.

402
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: It was Yeah, they should have just been like, forget

403
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 1: all this spirit so bunch, this weird thing.

404
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 4: But that was the phantom knocking.

405
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 1: And we know that because Maggie later on confessed to

406
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: the New York Tribune maybe or the Post one of them,

407
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: and said, like, this is how, this is how we

408
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 1: did it actually in an effort to take her sister

409
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 1: Leah down, but it ended up taking the spiritualist movement

410
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 1: down in large part. But that was it, Like thumping

411
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: your knuckle on a wooden stool. They did this for

412
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 1: forty forty years. They made a living around the world

413
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Speaker 1: doing that and created a new religion from it.

414
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the time the spiritualism fad sort of

415
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 2: died away, the two younger sisters were and she recanted

416
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: that confession, by the way, but everyone's like, yeah, you

417
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: already said it, you'd try, right, But the two younger

418
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 2: sisters and Maggie especially were in pretty bad shape with alcoholism,

419
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 2: and they died sort of in a call your Brother's esquay,

420
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 2: very quietly and fairly destitute in New York City in

421
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 2: the eighteen nineties.

422
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: Trapped under newspapers maybe, but no. They had very interesting

423
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: but also very sad lives. Like I think Maggie married

424
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: a skeptic and.

425
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 4: He not a good move, right he died.

426
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: He talked to her out of doing spiritualism, but she

427
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: went back after he died. Kate married another spiritualist and

428
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: she had a huge career touring the world as a spiritualist,

429
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: made a lot of money but apparently lost it all.

430
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: And Leah again was just kind of I guess, a

431
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: bit of a villain in this story.

432
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 3: Where's that movie.

433
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: Man, I was wondering the exact same thing. It's crazy

434
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: it hasn't been made fifty times already, you know, yeah.

435
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: That would be that would be pretty cool. I couldn't

436
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: even find a good documentary on it.

437
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah.

438
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 2: On them at least. I'm sure there are plenty on

439
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 2: that they're featured in. But and no give me those

440
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: Fox sisters.

441
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: No matter how you look at it too, whether you

442
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: look at it from the aspect of a believer who

443
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 1: thinks like this is where it all started, these two sisters,

444
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: and there's plenty of reasons to believe if you're a

445
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: credulous person or confiding, as Mark Twain would put it,

446
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: that you know, like the Andrew Jackson Davis guy who

447
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: kind of started this thing on his own, supposedly wrote

448
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: on March thirty first, eighteen forty eight, that spirit came

449
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: to him and said the work has begun. We just

450
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: started something over here, and then later found out about

451
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: the Fox. There's like, there's all sorts of stuff you

452
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: can believe, and so it's interesting from that respect. But

453
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: also if you're just a pure died in the wolf

454
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: skeptic who do not believe in any kind of afterlife

455
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: or soul or anything like that. It's equally interesting in

456
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: a totally different way that this whole, like almost century

457
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: long movement started from that.

458
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, it's crazy. It's just love it. I

459
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 4: love this whole story.

460
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 2: So it's sweeping the nation at this point by the

461
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: eighteen fifties, and we're going to go over some of

462
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: the different things that they would do, some of the

463
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 2: methods that they would use to communicate with the other side,

464
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: to fake communicate with the other side. The first one

465
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: is channeling, and these would be trance mediums. So this

466
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 2: is like when you've seen in a movie when someone

467
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 2: is just talking, like I am in my regular voice

468
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 2: and I'm entering the trance and I'm doing a lot

469
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,239
Speaker 2: of showy things to kind of get people, you know,

470
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: pretty pumped up.

471
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 3: I feel like they're spending their money.

472
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 4: Well, you get me pumped up, I'll tell you that.

473
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, you know, I go into

474
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: this other voice and I'm like a small child. Maybe

475
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: the parents lost a child, or I'm a woman.

476
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 4: Or I'mammy Davis Junior.

477
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 3: Hey babe, I just came back to say that don't

478
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 3: worry about me. This cat is doing just fine.

479
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: I came back to say, I love pretty pebbles in

480
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: a major way.

481
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 3: He invented rap.

482
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 4: That's right.

483
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: So if you were a good talented medium, that meant

484
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: that you were probably a pretty good actor.

485
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: You could probably do good voices. Sometimes.

486
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 2: In the case of Corus Scott, who I know, we've

487
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 2: talked about her before.

488
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 4: Her name, just can't remember what I have no recollection

489
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 4: of talking about her.

490
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, sounds super familiar.

491
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: But she was one of the top mediums, trance mediums,

492
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: because she was this very sort of demure, attractive young lady,

493
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 2: and her whole demeanor was about that. And then she

494
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 2: was apparently a great actor because she would go into

495
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: these big, heavy, gruff voices, and the gulf between who

496
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: she was and who she was imitating was so great

497
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: that everyone was just like, fantastic, Cora Scott, you're a genius.

498
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: Well also, yeah, she was like a little twelve year

499
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: old girl when she started, and supposedly she would take

500
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: the stage and confidently discuss like physics and philosophy and

501
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: all that stuff because there was some authoritative spirit who

502
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: had basically taken possession of her.

503
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I looked up her picture and Kate Winslet

504
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: I think is from my cast in Couch is who

505
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 2: I would throw in that movie. Okay, Okay, not as

506
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: the twelve year old that would be weird unless they

507
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 2: do some sort of bad irishman de aging. But she

508
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: looked enough like her and she's a great actor.

509
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: So so that's so channeling is what you kind of

510
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: think of, where somebody becomes possessed, the medium becomes possessed.

511
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 4: Right.

512
00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 3: Yeah.

513
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: There's also ones where like they're just saying, like, oh

514
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: I can hear what they're saying, but you can't because

515
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: they're speaking to me through telepathy, right, Okay, that reminds

516
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: me of John Edwards. Remember him crossing over with John Edwards?

517
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't picture him. I think if I saw

518
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: a picture, I would totally remember, though.

519
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 4: You would, you would.

520
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: What a weird time the nineties were as far as

521
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: stuff like that goes, although I think his show ran

522
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: from two thousand to two thousand and four.

523
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that can sort of coincide it with the

524
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: Reverend Bob Dobbs and the televangelism and all that good stuff.

525
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a crazy time.

526
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: So then there's automatic writing was another big one too,

527
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: and all of this should sound familiar again, because the

528
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: stuff just is so permeated in a pop culture.

529
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 4: It's crazy.

530
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: But automatic writing is instead of the medium's voice being

531
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: taken over, the medium being possessed and speaking as the spirit,

532
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: the spirit took over their hand and they would start writing.

533
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: And so in just the same way chorus Scott would

534
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: have a completely different personality or a different voice or

535
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: different accent or something like that. This, like the handwriting

536
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: or the word usage or anything like that would be

537
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: different than the medium's normal handwriting.

538
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 4: This is automatic writing.

539
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 3: And there was that trying to decide if I could

540
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: do that.

541
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes they would use their non dominant hand, So

542
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: if you want to change your handwriting, just.

543
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 4: Do that to start. Yeah, I can't some way.

544
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: And then there was a woman named Pearl Curran who

545
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: wrote at least five thousand poems, novels and plays through

546
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: automatic writing, all channeling the spirit of the seventeenth century

547
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: woman from England named Patience Worth.

548
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 4: Nice. That's prolific. That's a lot of words. And then

549
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 4: what about direct voice?

550
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, direct voices.

551
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: When you are a medium, you contact a spirit and

552
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 2: the spirit is so powerful that they just speak to

553
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: you directly, like the medium is just sitting there with

554
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 2: their mouth closed.

555
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 4: Yea.

556
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: And this happened usually in a dark room where they

557
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: would have a business partner just behind the curtain obviously

558
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: use talking, or maybe they were just doing a bad

559
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: ventriloquist kind of deal where there it's dark enough where

560
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: you can't really see their lips moving throwing their voice.

561
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: There was a woman named Leslie Flint, a medium.

562
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 4: Oh really, he looked like the old man from up.

563
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: Oh did it make you cry when he.

564
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 4: Looked at him?

565
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 3: My daughter did?

566
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 4: Watched that.

567
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 2: Here have these balloons, So yeah, Leslie Finch, I actually

568
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: love that name for a man.

569
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 4: So yeah. And I don't know why I.

570
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 2: Assumed, but he would recreate famous people like Sammy Davis Junior,

571
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: but wasn't very good at it apparently, which is kind

572
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: of funny. That makes us all a little bit more

573
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 2: rediculous and fun.

574
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: Well, I was reading obituary about him that was written

575
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: by somebody who attended one of his or a couple

576
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: I think of his seances, and they said things like,

577
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of times you could tell it,

578
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: like what the trickery was or whatever. But there are

579
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: other times where he would like be speaking over the voice,

580
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: which is tough to do with ventriloquism, or one time

581
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: he was tested, he was made to hold colored water

582
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: in his mouth while the spirit voice was speaking, and

583
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: you're like, wow, you know, that's pretty interesting, and then

584
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: you just think, well, there's there's always an explanation for it. Yeah,

585
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe there was another person who was

586
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: a confederate in the room. Who knows, But it just

587
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: goes to show that even still even today, and this

588
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: guy's obituary that was written in the nineties, the nineteen nineties,

589
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: that they were like, yeah, you know, he was largely

590
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: considered a trickster or fraud. But they'll still hedge and say,

591
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: you know, but there were a couple of things and

592
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: at the very least it's unexplained, which is pretty interesting

593
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: and neat, But that doesn't necessarily mean that, oh no,

594
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: there really was a spirit that was talking in the

595
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: room thanks to him.

596
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 3: Amazing.

597
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 2: So we had table turning. This is at a you know,

598
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: this isn't like a theatrical performance. This is in a

599
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: small room. Everyone and this kind of think wija board

600
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: with this. It's the same sort of thing, except the

601
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: wija board would be the actual table that you're sitting at.

602
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: Everyone would put their hands on the table and then

603
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 2: the table would move or tilt or something when you're

604
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: asking questions, So it's inhabiting the furniture. Of course, what's

605
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 2: going on here is either like knee movements, or sometime

606
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 2: they had these rings on the medium's finger that were

607
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: slotted and could move the table around without anyone noticing.

608
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: Just another little parlor trick.

609
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, or you know the idea that you're moving

610
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: the table yourself like a Oigi board.

611
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 4: I can't remember what it's.

612
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: Called, but basically, your your body is moving without your

613
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,479
Speaker 1: brain being aware of it. And then there's also just

614
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: the straight up power of suggestion, and this applies to

615
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: table turning in a lot of other stuff. But if

616
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: you're saying, like if you're the medium at a seance

617
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: and you said the table is rising, it's rising people

618
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: who are willing to believe, a lot of people who

619
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: went to seance is wanted to believe. We're already believed

620
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: in this stuff. Just the power of suggestion could be like, oh,

621
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: it is raising a little bit, I can feel it.

622
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: I can tell kind of thing.

623
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, my favorite and I bet your favorite too is

624
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 2: ectoplasmic manifestations.

625
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 4: That's a good one.

626
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty good.

627
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: This is when you would actually, as a spiritualist, produce

628
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: something physical, something would manifest itself, an actual substance, and

629
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: it was They called it ectoplasm, and they could pull

630
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: it from their body and it was just basically something

631
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: that they would make beforehand.

632
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 3: Out of whatever. I mean, they would make it out

633
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: of all kinds of things.

634
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 2: There was one story about someone who was actually gluing

635
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: cut out faces from a magazine onto dolls and those

636
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 2: were ectoplasm spirits. But they would hide these things sometimes

637
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: like up their butt or in their other body cavities,

638
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: and they would pull these things out. And some of

639
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: the pictures that you see online if you look up

640
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: ectoplasm eighteen hundred's seance is just the pictures themselves are

641
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,439
Speaker 2: hysterical and frightening all at the same time.

642
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially now when you look back and see them,

643
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: you're like, how did anybody fall for that? And it's

644
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: really important to keep in mind one they wanted to believe,

645
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: but two these seances would be carried out in dark

646
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: rooms to where you couldn't see much at all. You

647
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: just suddenly see some luminous cloth or something that you

648
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: were led to believe was ectoplasm kind of what looked

649
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: like floating in the middle of the table or something

650
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: like that. It's stuff that's really easy to explain. But

651
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: in a darkened room that you been sitting in for

652
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: three hours communicating with spirits, you might be a lot

653
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 1: more prone to buy into it than under normal circumstances.

654
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, maybe you're a little.

655
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 4: Drunk right tipsy on Chinnap's.

656
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: Levitation was another big one, nice little party trick. I

657
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 2: actually could sort of do this for a little while.

658
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: The David Blaine method. I don't know if you ever

659
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 2: saw his when he made himself levitate.

660
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 4: It's just kind of hopping up and down in air.

661
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 3: Right, No, it's it's you're thinking of trampolines.

662
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 4: Oh, that's not the same thing.

663
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 3: No, people can see those.

664
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 2: Oh No, it's all about the angle with the David

665
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 2: Blaine method of getting them to see you from the

666
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 2: right angle to where what you're really doing is you're

667
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 2: rising your body up with just one like just your

668
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: first three toes on your right foot, and you're hiding

669
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: that with your other foot, so it looks like you're

670
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: just sort of levitating a few inches off the ground

671
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: and then you act like you're unsteady and then you

672
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 2: land back.

673
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 3: Down and go oh boy, that was a good one.

674
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 3: That was pretty powerful.

675
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: So wait a minute, David Blaine can raise his entire

676
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: body weight with three toes.

677
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 2: Well, I mean he's on his toes. I just I

678
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 2: mean I could do it at the time too. This

679
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: is in the nineties.

680
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 4: Man, that's impressive.

681
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever had the kind of toe't

682
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: strength that is required to do that.

683
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 3: You can raise yourself up with one foot.

684
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 4: In a seated position.

685
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 3: No, no, no, you're standing uh.

686
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 4: Oh oh oh, I got you.

687
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

688
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: So what you're doing is you're standing there and then

689
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 2: you raise yourself off the ground with just the toes

690
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: on your right foot, let's say, and you're keeping your

691
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: left foot is shielding that so you can't quite see it.

692
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, I've got it.

693
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 2: And it just creates if you got someone at the

694
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 2: right angle. And I got pretty good at it. My

695
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: roommate Justin was like, you're getting better, mate.

696
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 4: Right, oh, I'm getting drunker.

697
00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: Well, both of those things are happening.

698
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: I thought you were talking about like you know, like

699
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: a fake here or something like that where they're sitting

700
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: cross legged and they're levitating. I was like, to do

701
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: that with just three toes. That in and of itself

702
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: is pretty impressive, but it's pretty good, all right.

703
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: What are the other There's another couple of things they

704
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 3: did too, What are.

705
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 4: The beer photography?

706
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: Pretty straightforward stuff where you know, this is the very

707
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: beginnings of photography. So people didn't understand double exposures unless

708
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 1: you were a photographer. But if you were, you could

709
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: do all sorts of neat stuff like double exposed something

710
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: to put a ghostly face in the background over someone's shoulder.

711
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 4: I saw one.

712
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: I saw a spirit photograph where it was a ghostly arm.

713
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: It also could have been a genie coming out of

714
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: a bottle. One of the two. It looked exactly the same,

715
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: but it was like that it was on a table,

716
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: so they were like, this is a spirit arm, levitating table.

717
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: So they're like tying three things together. Table turning, levitating

718
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: and spirit photography.

719
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 3: Those are great.

720
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: I think the spirit photography just because they were taking

721
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 2: advantage of this new technology people did not even understand.

722
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 4: Right, it was like the deep fake of the time.

723
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: And they were probably like everybody, we got maybe three.

724
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 4: Years, Yeah, we ready to get prolific.

725
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 3: And then everyone's going to be like, oh, that's just

726
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 3: double exposure.

727
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 1: Right, and then people like I said earlier too, a

728
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: lot of the New Age stuff that's tied into spiritualism today,

729
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: like tarot readings or oh, I don't know, astrological that

730
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: kind of stuff that had nothing to do with this

731
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: because spiritualists, all of it grew out of Christianity. So

732
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: there was some Christian basis to all of the spiritualist practices.

733
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: And even though in a lot of ways it was

734
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: extraordinarily heretical. There was no religious leader in charge of anything.

735
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: There was no scripture, doctrine or anything like that. It

736
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: was still very much tied into and born out of Christianity.

737
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: So stuff like occult things would have, yeah, it would

738
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 1: have been very much frowned upon by spiritualists totally.

739
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 3: Should we take another break, I think we should. All right,

740
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 3: We'll take.

741
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: Another break and tell you about what the Civil War

742
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: had to do with all of this, right after this,

743
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 2: all right, So, pre Civil War in the United States,

744
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 2: spiritualism was popular. It was booming, but it was more

745
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: like the kind of thing that you did in a

746
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: theater and you would go see it as a curiosity

747
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: or you might just maybe even knew it was fake

748
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 2: and it was just attainment.

749
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 3: There was a lot going on back then, kind.

750
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: Of like looking at penguins in a zoo today, like

751
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: you know they're fake, but it's still fun to look at.

752
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: Right, Why not go pay a nickel to see madam

753
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 2: whatever do her little? Do her a little erotic because

754
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: we'll get into that. The'se got a little sexy at

755
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: times too.

756
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 4: A little ghost shimmy.

757
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 3: This is part of the part of the draw, the

758
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:21,240
Speaker 3: ghost shimmy.

759
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: But you need to talk about a couple of things here.

760
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: The Civil War for sure, but one of the things

761
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 2: that was going on. You know, we've been talking about

762
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: a lot about the northeastern United States, and there's a

763
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: very good reason it didn't take hold in the South.

764
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 3: It's because.

765
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: The way Christianity was, and some might argue still is

766
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: in the South didn't leave a lot of room. The

767
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 2: hierarchy didn't leave a lot of room for other schools

768
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: of thought. And it was basically, even though it wasn't

769
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: necessarily a cult, it was just shut down kind of

770
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: from the beginning in.

771
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: The South, they're like, we'll stick to our voodoo, thank

772
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,919
Speaker 1: you very much, exactly, keep that spiritualism stuff out.

773
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was just not a big thing in

774
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 2: the South. The mediums at the time would move off

775
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: the stage sometimes and have these private seances.

776
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 4: Yea.

777
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: Sometimes they would get in touch with a family member,

778
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 2: but oftentimes it would just be kind of the same

779
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 2: in the state as the stage show. They would say, like,

780
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to get in touch with Sammy Davis Junior

781
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: or whatever. The popular dead figure at the time.

782
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 1: Was Sure, but that was for like pre Civil War,

783
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 1: it was an entertainment, it was an amusement. But when

784
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: the Civil War came, a lot of people died in

785
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: the Civil War, and that means that a lot of

786
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: people who survived the Civil War lost a loved one.

787
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: And these might have been people who you know, went

788
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 1: off to fight and just never came back, never heard

789
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: from again, no nothing, have no.

790
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 4: Idea where they died, where they were buried.

791
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: And so that kind of grief, you know, that transcends

792
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: any kind of time or place, and it created a

793
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: lot of people, a large population of people who were

794
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: very interested in getting in touch with their dead relative,

795
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: and it just so happened that at the time there

796
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: was a movement afoot that said, oh, well, this guy

797
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 1: over here is actually really good at getting in touch

798
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: with the dead. Why don't you have a seance with him.

799
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: You just have to, you know, pay him to do

800
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,720
Speaker 1: this work, because it does a lot of work. Whether

801
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: you are a believer and a skeptic, it's a lot

802
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 1: of work to have been a medium during this time.

803
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: And so they would be paid and they would make

804
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: a living like this, and so these seances, these performances

805
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: were decreased in size, but vastly increased in frequency.

806
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot more spiritualists doing smaller mediums for families

807
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 2: or smaller seances for families, And the same thing happened

808
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: after World War One as well. So it's you know,

809
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 2: it's kind of all fun and games until it gets

810
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: to this level. If it's a big theater show, fine, whatever,

811
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: go pay your money and get entertained for an hour.

812
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,439
Speaker 2: But when you are taking people's money who have lost

813
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 2: loved ones in battle, then that's when it gets kind

814
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: of really ugly if you ask.

815
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 4: Me, right.

816
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: And that's where I think a lot of the genuine

817
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 1: skeptics who who beat this kind of stuff to a pulp.

818
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: That's the place that they're coming from. You know, not

819
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: necessarily that it's like an affront to science or reason

820
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: or common sense or anything like that, but that there

821
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who have parted money from

822
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: people who were bereaved at the time, and you just

823
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 1: you don't take advantage of people who are undergoing grief.

824
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 4: That's a pretty shod thing to do.

825
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: That's a life lesson right there for everybody listening, especially

826
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: with youngsters.

827
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 2: Not only that, not only taking their money, but I

828
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: imagine in a lot of cases people made real life

829
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: decisions based on things that would happen in these seances.

830
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 2: You know, right, it's true, sell the family farm like

831
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: stuff like that.

832
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 4: Oh God, thought about that.

833
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: And not only sell the family farm, sell it to

834
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: me the medium. That's what your dead brother wants you

835
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: to do.

836
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: For what something's coming through. They're saying pennies on the dollar.

837
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 4: That's great.

838
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 3: Oh wait so yeah, yeah, that's terrible.

839
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: So by the end of the twentieth century, things started

840
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: to decline a bit. One was just pure greed. There

841
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 2: were too many of them out there. They were all

842
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: trying to outdo one another. They were trying to draw

843
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 2: bigger crowds and more money, and they were getting more

844
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 2: outrageous by doing so, and that meant, just like anything,

845
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 2: when you try and do that, the bigger, you try

846
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: to force something to be Sometimes that can lead to

847
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: its kind of early death.

848
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, go big or go home, But eventually

849
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: you're going to go home anyway.

850
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 4: That's the end of that saying. I love it right.

851
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: So part of it was that they were making more

852
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: and more audacious claims, but also there were more and

853
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: more scientists like those that that open minded scientific approach

854
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: had become a lot more hardened toward spiritualism and mediums

855
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: because so many had been investigated and found to just

856
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: be total frauds. Most of the time, the outcome was

857
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: the medium couldn't reproduce this ectoplasm or get in touch

858
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: with the spirit when they were under controlled conditions, or

859
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: they went for it and they were found to be

860
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: a fraud, like the knuckle of their toe was found

861
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: to be wrapping on a stool or something like that.

862
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: And so as these reports kept coming out, more and

863
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,959
Speaker 1: more these scientific investigators were like, I don't think any

864
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: of this is real, and they would be interviewed in newspapers,

865
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: and the papers would run these articles, and so over

866
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: time just the general public kind of turned away from

867
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: spiritualism as hocum and bunk. But the thing is is

868
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: not everyone did. Even still today. Go ask Dan Aykroyd.

869
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: There is a group of people who adhere to spiritualism as.

870
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 3: A religion, no for sure.

871
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 2: And one of the big reasons that it didn't completely

872
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 2: go away was Spiritualists were very smart in that they

873
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 2: would use influencers of the day in their act. They

874
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 2: would seek out these well known people. They would tour

875
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: the world, sometimes tour Europe and do seances with like

876
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 2: royal families of various countries. The newspapers write about this.

877
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: They would get a quote or maybe demand a quote

878
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 2: from someone like well known and they would say, all right,

879
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 2: I'll come to a seiance, but you got to give

880
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 2: me a quote that I can use my flyer or whatever.

881
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 4: What's it called quote?

882
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, that fallacy, the logical fallacy, appeal

883
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: to authority.

884
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yeah, the appeal to authority, sure, okay, yeah,

885
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: which you know makes a lot of sense that people see,

886
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: oh well, they did a sands for the Prince of

887
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 2: Monaco or Sammy Davis Junior, then it's got to be

888
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 2: good enough for me. It's not pseudoscience at all, because

889
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 2: why would Sammy Davis Junior believe in pseudoscience?

890
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: Right, He's just a Satanist. He didn't care about pseudoscience,

891
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: that's right. So one of the other authorities that they

892
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: would appeal to, Chuck, was what this one. There's an

893
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: expose written in eighteen ninety seven, and by god if

894
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: I can't I can't find it anywhere in my tabs.

895
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: But it was basically, uh oh, Revelations of a Spirit

896
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: Medium is what it was called. And it was written

897
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 1: anonymously by a medium, a huckster, a fraud, and I'm

898
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: pretty sure it was published in eighteen ninety seven, and

899
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: it is like four hundred pages exposing all the tips

900
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, all the tricks. But one there's

901
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: a glossary of like nineteenth century slang words among hoasters.

902
00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:58,760
Speaker 4: It's amazing.

903
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: But one of them was the heavy, and that was

904
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: a scientist who was over credentialed. They had all these

905
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: PhDs and everything like that, so they were BookSmart, but

906
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: they were super gullible and if you could get a

907
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 1: top heavy to basically say, like I can't explain it,

908
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: science can't explain it. That would go a very long

909
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: way to bolstering your career.

910
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 4: You know.

911
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, even if you talked to one hundred scientists and

912
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: one of them was a top heavy who'd said something

913
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 2: valuable to you, that's the only one. You're the tenth

914
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: dentist of the nine out of ten dentists.

915
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: Right, exactly exactly, and that's all you need, especially if

916
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: the other nine dentists just keep their traps shut because

917
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: they have better things to do. But there were a

918
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: bunch of people who would not keep their traps shut.

919
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: I guess actually one of a legendary top heavy, even

920
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: though he wasn't a scientist, credential or otherwise, was Sir

921
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: Arthur Kunnan Doyle. I don't know what's wrong with me.

922
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Sir Arthur cohnin do yell.

923
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: By the way, before I forget, If there's not a

924
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 2: band called the tenth Dentist out there, then I don't

925
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 2: know what to think anymore.

926
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: That's a good one. Remember those Trident commercials. I think

927
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: it was four out of five dentists.

928
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 4: One of them.

929
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 3: I was it four out of five.

930
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: He was bit on the testicles by a squirrel before

931
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: he could pronounce how, before he could recommend denteen or

932
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: trident or something like that.

933
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 2: Maybe it should be the fifth. It is four out

934
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 2: of five us, it's not nine out of ten.

935
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 4: Do you remember that though? No, it was that great?

936
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 3: The uh? What was the what was the was it?

937
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 3: We make holes and teeth? Oh?

938
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 4: Yeah?

939
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 3: Remember that the cartoon that was Crest.

940
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: Okay, do you want to hear you want to hear

941
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of eighties marketing to kids. My third grade

942
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: maybe fourth grade class put on a play about toothpaste, yes,

943
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: and cavities sponsored by Crest.

944
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

945
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 2: They had a big pushback then for taking over the

946
00:49:58,239 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 2: minds of American children.

947
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 4: Well it worked.

948
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: What's funny is I now use Aquafresh the orange tube.

949
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: Oh man, if there is a favorite toothpaste that any

950
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: boy in America has ever had, that is it in

951
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: its mind?

952
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 3: That was from the eighties?

953
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 4: No, it is now.

954
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: But I'm saying the Crest takeover of my mind didn't work. Gotcha,

955
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: I'm an Aquafresh boy now?

956
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 3: Is that the one with the tricolor?

957
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, which is another very appealing part of it.

958
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 3: Man, you'd buy it all, don't you.

959
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 4: I do so gullible. Yeah, I am a little gullible.

960
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 3: You're like an Arthur Conan Doyle.

961
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: So he if you recognize his name, he was the

962
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: author of Sherlock Holmes. Of course, he was super into this.

963
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: He joined the Society for Psychical Research, which was an

964
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:48,280
Speaker 1: early skeptical slash believer society, and he always he bought

965
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: into this. He was just convinced. But on the other

966
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: side of the equation, we're skeptics who were not convinced,

967
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: who basically didn't keep their mouths shut. They were the

968
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: other four who would say, like, no, oh, everybody, actually,

969
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: this guy's wrong. My esteemed colleague has been taken. But

970
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: then the head of those guys was Harry Houdini. Amazingly enough, yeah, Houdini.

971
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: Which makes it super ironic that at the Magic Castle

972
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles they have long had Harry Houdini seance nights.

973
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,720
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, where you can.

974
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 2: Go into the Harry Houdini Room and do a seance,

975
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 2: which is, you know, it's all for fun. But it

976
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 2: is kind of funny that he was very much against

977
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 2: this stuff. Although supposedly if you go to the Magic castle,

978
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 2: they'll tell you that he did, and he may have

979
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: really done. This is told his wife before he died that, hey, listen,

980
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 2: if I was wrong, I'll come back and I'll contact

981
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 2: you and let you know.

982
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 4: You're right.

983
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: And he came back and he said, I've got good

984
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: news and I've got bad news. The good news is

985
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 1: there is a heaven. The bad news is you're scheduled

986
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 1: to pitch there tonight. Do you remember that Scary Stories

987
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 1: of Telling the Dark book?

988
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 3: Yeah? Where was that? What that was from?

989
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: It was like two friends who played baseball together. Yeah,

990
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 1: they had a pack to like Harry Houdini and his wife.

991
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 4: Apparently.

992
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 3: I think that's a there's different versions of that joke though.

993
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 4: Man, the illustrations in that book were just barre on.

994
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was great stuff. And by the way, we

995
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: should give a big rest in peace to mister Mort

996
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 2: Drucker who passed away. Oh yeah, a couple of weeks

997
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 2: ago in real time. But that was that was a

998
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 2: big one. We talk about Mad Magazine a lot, and

999
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 2: Mort Drucker was my number one with a bullet favorite

1000
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 2: artist and he passed on and he was one of

1001
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:37,760
Speaker 2: the greats.

1002
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 4: He definitely shaped my childhood in a very large way. Yeah,

1003
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 4: big time with his drawings. Yeah. Nice, we'll hear from

1004
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 4: you soon, right. He's like, you guys are pitching tonight.

1005
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 3: Oh no, both of us.

1006
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 4: So so Harry Houdini.

1007
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, Josh is gonna flowb it and Chuck's

1008
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: gonna have to be brought in for the safe. So

1009
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: Harry Harry Houdini created this long standing tradition of stage

1010
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 1: magicians exposing the fraud of spiritualism.

1011
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 4: Basically, yeah, because they were.

1012
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 3: They're like, they're stealing our tricks.

1013
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's pretty cool, Like he would incorporate into

1014
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 1: his stage shows a lot of these things that spiritualists

1015
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 1: were doing to show how they did it.

1016
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 4: And he was relentless at it.

1017
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was very relentless.

1018
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: But it was very cool and the fact that it's

1019
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: still going on today. Richard Wiseman, who's come up a

1020
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: few times. He was in the Sheldrake episode. He was

1021
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 1: in the Ghosts episode, and I think we somehow misconstrued

1022
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 1: as research in the ghost episode to suggest that he

1023
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: had proven ghosts exists. I don't remember exactly the details

1024
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: of it, but we got that one wrong. But in

1025
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: this case, he has recreated seances from the nineteenth century

1026
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: and has shown how willing people are to totally miss

1027
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: report the events that went on in the seance, to

1028
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 1: say that, yes, you know, the table did levitate or

1029
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: all the stuff that he's studying under these controlled conditions,

1030
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: and it's basically shown not just that the medium himself

1031
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: or more often herself as we'll see, was engaging in fraud,

1032
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 1: but also that the audience had a willing suspension of disbelief.

1033
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: And we're part of this too by saying, like I

1034
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: felt the phantom arm tap me on the shoulder. The

1035
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: medium didn't have anything to do with that. That was

1036
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: just something that kind of came out of the environment

1037
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: that was produced in the seance.

1038
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, pretty interesting. It is pretty interesting.

1039
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 2: So we'll finish up here with this. I thought this

1040
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 2: was very interesting, actually, the social implications of this. Most

1041
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 2: of the not all, but a lot of these spiritualists

1042
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 2: were women in the nineteenth century. For some practical reasons,

1043
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 2: they could wear these long dresses that could hide talented

1044
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 2: toe knuckles. They were not because of the time, they

1045
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't get like searched too closely, obviously, because you wouldn't

1046
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 2: do that if you were a scientist trying to examine

1047
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 2: whether or not a spiritualist was real or not, and

1048
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 2: that led to there were men for sure, But that

1049
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 2: led to this kind of interesting side note. One is

1050
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 2: that women could make their own money, and so it's

1051
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 2: easy to poopoo something like this. But I'm sure those

1052
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 2: Fox sisters made a lot more dough than they ever

1053
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 2: could have, as you know, doing anything else offered and

1054
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 2: available to them at the time. So that's a good thing.

1055
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 2: They gave them some agency. But these it was no

1056
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: coincidence that sometimes the voice from the other side would

1057
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: champion sort.

1058
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 3: Of progressive views, because this.

1059
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,280
Speaker 2: Turned out to be a chance to sort of reshape

1060
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 2: policy in a way. If you were a woman and

1061
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,720
Speaker 2: you were a spiritualist, it would be very easy to say,

1062
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 2: you know, they're saying that women should have more rights,

1063
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 2: and if not, they will come back and haunt you,

1064
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: all right, And that kind of ended up happening in

1065
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 2: some ways.

1066
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a huge connection between spiritualism and spiritualist

1067
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 1: movement and abolitionism, the women's suffrage movement, the women's or

1068
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:21,320
Speaker 1: the temperance movement, a lot of these progressive movements, workers'

1069
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: rights and you know, if you were an abolitionist and

1070
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: you didn't believe this kind of thing, you might be like,

1071
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,399
Speaker 1: I'm not really happy about that. But at the same

1072
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: time it kind of whipped up this fervor in that

1073
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: some people would like their spirits that were being channeled

1074
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,240
Speaker 1: by the medium were saying things like you guys better

1075
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: get on the train of abolitionism, you better get rid

1076
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 1: of slavery. And it actually did, especially in these theatrical settings,

1077
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: have a widespread influence on getting the message out there

1078
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: through the spirit communication.

1079
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: Weirdly enough, Yeah, it's almost like one could say anything

1080
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: at all. It's something like, oh, I don't know, a

1081
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 2: campaign rally, and people would believe it if they were

1082
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 2: an ardent enough believer in the.

1083
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: Speaker exactly, especially if they'd attach their ego to you

1084
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 1: and your success.

1085
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 4: Very strange.

1086
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to give two shouts out, one

1087
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: to the probably the greatest ghost movie that involved seances.

1088
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 3: Ever Ghost No would be Goldberg.

1089
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 4: No, all right?

1090
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: The others with Nicole, Yeah, that was good, it was

1091
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: so good, and then spoil it. The greatest short story

1092
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: involving seances in the spiritualist movement, written by arguably the

1093
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: greatest American writer of all time, Joyce Carol Oates. It's

1094
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: called night Side. It's a short story. It's the same

1095
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: title as a collection of her short stories from the seventies,

1096
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: I think nineteen seventy seven night Side. Look it up

1097
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: and thank me later. It's seriously just bone chilling how

1098
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 1: good it is.

1099
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 3: I wonder if we could get in touch with her

1100
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 3: and read that for our Halloween episode.

1101
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: I tweeted to her once kind of crassly and never

1102
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: heard anything back. Even though you're like Twitter, I know

1103
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: she saw that tweet.

1104
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 3: Hey at Joyce Carol Loats, you think you're so cool?

1105
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 4: Right?

1106
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 1: I would love to read that one. There's another one too.

1107
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: She's probably not just the greatest American writer, but the

1108
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: greatest American horror writer too.

1109
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 4: She's great, She's so wonderful. I would read.

1110
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: Any of her stories. So, if you out there know

1111
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: Joyce Carol Oates, in contact with her or her publisher, please,

1112
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: we would love to read in our ad free episode

1113
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: one of her short stories for Halloween.

1114
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 3: That's right, so I think she might like that aspect.

1115
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 4: Okay, Oh, one last thing, Chuck.

1116
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: There's a place called lily Dale in New York, appropriately enough,

1117
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: which is basically a spiritualist community where you can go

1118
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:07,959
Speaker 1: basically be among spiritualists as a religion. Today wonderful since

1119
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 1: I said today it's time for listening that.

1120
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to call this.

1121
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 2: We haven't gotten emails in two weeks from people because

1122
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 2: something's wrong with our email server. So it's on bidets again.

1123
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 2: You're going to get a couple on bidays.

1124
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 4: I think.

1125
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 2: All right, Hey, guys, listening to your recent episode on

1126
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 2: bidays reminded me of a funny story I thought you

1127
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 2: might like. Two thousand and four, my family bought a

1128
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 2: new house in the suburbs of Detroit. It was designed

1129
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 2: and built by an exceptionally pragmatic, efficient yet lacking an

1130
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 2: esthetic appreciation engineer. To our surprise my husband's delight, as

1131
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 2: he is from Spain, the master bathroom included a separate

1132
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 2: bidet unit. And remember this is two thousand and four

1133
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 2: and people were not as familiar in this country. Most

1134
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 2: people that visited our home had no idea what it was.

1135
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 2: And we also made the decision to not give advanced

1136
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 2: notice when they to the bathroom. Invariably, people would emerge

1137
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 2: from the bathroom trip either a little wet, or with

1138
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 2: an embarrassed look on their face as they confessed having

1139
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,439
Speaker 2: explored the contraption and released a stream of water onto

1140
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 2: themselves and into our bathroom.

1141
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 3: Was always good for a laugh. I sure appreciate you guys.

1142
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 2: When we moved from Michigan to the South Carolina.

1143
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: What was she once missed South Carolina, because that would

1144
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: explain that last bit.

1145
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 2: No, I thought it was she met the South and

1146
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 2: I didn't see on the next line it said Carolina.

1147
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 3: So that was just me.

1148
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 4: Oh okay.

1149
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 2: Your voices accompanied us as we made many twelve hour

1150
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 2: trips back and forth. We enjoyed the knowledge and the tangents,

1151
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 2: even the tangents, and now you continue to soothe and

1152
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 2: educate me as I go on my four to five

1153
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 2: mile recreational walks during the pandemic quarantine and temporary hopefully furlough.

1154
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 2: And that is from Michelle Salcedo.

1155
01:00:57,800 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 4: Nice.

1156
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Michelle. We're glad to know that you're

1157
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: doing okay there hanging out waiting for things to get.

1158
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 3: Back to normal in the South Carolina.

1159
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: That's right, Chuck, And as it will eventually go back

1160
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 1: to normal, and in the meantime, if you want to

1161
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: get in touch with us, like Michelle did to let

1162
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: us know some silly story.

1163
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 4: About a Biday or what have you.

1164
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 1: You can get in touch with us send us an

1165
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 1: email to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

1166
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 3: You Know Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

1167
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 4: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1168
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.