1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: In the criminal Justice System, landmark trials transcend the courtroom 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 2: to reshape the law. The brave man and women who 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 2: investigate and prosecute these cases are part of a select 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: group that is defined American history. These are their stories. Sunday, 7 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 2: April thirteenth, nineteen eighty six, early afternoon, Benson Nurst, Brooklyn. 8 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: It was a quiet day outside the Veterans and Friends 9 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: Social Club. A Genevese associate approached a gray Buick Electra. 10 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: He slit a brown paper bag under the passenger door, 11 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: then walked away like it was just another afternoon. That 12 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: car it belonged to Frank de Chico, the newly minted 13 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: Gambino underboss and the right hand man of John Gotti. 14 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: Watching from nearby was Lucsey soldier Anthony Gaspipe Casso, notorious 15 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: for his brutal tactics, but today he wouldn't need a 16 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: pipe to get the job done. The order from the 17 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: Genovise bosses was simple, get Gotti. 18 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 3: Today. 19 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 4: One man was killed and another critically injured when their 20 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 4: car was rigged with a bomb in Brooklyn. 21 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: In the kitchen having coffee. It's just sitting there and 22 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, moms, just like that. I thought 23 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: it was back in a war. 24 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 4: Sources within the police department said that the man killed 25 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 4: was a lieutenant to John Gottie, the reported godfather of 26 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 4: the Gambino crime family. 27 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 5: You're not with them because you want to be. It's 28 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 5: the gangster that decides whether you're his associated on. 29 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 6: If you like your life, you will vote to acquit. 30 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: I'm Aniseega Nicolazzi. 31 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 7: My father should have been a dead. 32 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: Man from Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. This is law 33 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: and order, criminal justice system. How did the Genevise family 34 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: avoid federal prosecution for so long through a brilliant act 35 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: of leadership deception. For years, prosecutors were convinced that Fat 36 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: Tony Salerno was the boss of the Genovese. His conviction 37 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: should have brought the organization down like the other mafia families. 38 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: But what the government didn't know There was a clue 39 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: buried deep within hours of surveillance that things were not 40 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: as they seemed. On a nineteen eighty four wire tap, Salerno, 41 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: frustrated for a list of recruits, was overheard saying and 42 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: I quote, I don't know none of them, but I'll 43 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: leave this up to the boss. That single sentence, I'll 44 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: leave this up to the boss was a bombshell. Salerno, 45 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: the man authorities believed to be the boss, was revealing 46 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: that there was someone even higher. This comment shattered the 47 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: long held belief that Salerno was the one in charge. 48 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: Here's defense attorney James Leonard. 49 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 8: When I first became aware of the Geneese crime family, 50 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 8: it was seeing fat Tony Salerno, the alleged boss. The 51 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 8: United States government sentenced him to one hundred years and 52 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 8: they got their guy, and the entire time he wasn't 53 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 8: the boss. That's what made me want to dive into 54 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 8: who are these guys that fooled the United States government, 55 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 8: fooled the media, ooled some of the other organized crime families. 56 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: Rumors began circulating that the real head of the family 57 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: was Vincent the Chin Gigante, a man who managed to 58 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: stay in the shadows while Sealerno took the heat. Gigante's 59 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: low profile wasn't just luck. It was a calculated plan 60 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: that kept him off the radar of both law enforcement 61 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: and the media. This strategy wasn't new. As far back 62 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: as the nineteen sixties, a former Genovie's boss known as 63 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: Benny Squints had created the role of front boss, a 64 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: decoy to protect the real leadership. Former FBI supervisor Jim 65 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: Kostler explains. 66 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 9: The Genovie's family there were secret of these people would 67 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 9: tell you if your hair was on fire. 68 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: The idea was simple, Sellerno would be the public face, 69 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: while Giganty really called the shots. 70 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 9: So they came to an agreement that that Tony would 71 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 9: be the titular boss and call the shots, with the 72 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 9: approval of Jinger Ganty. They kept it that way for 73 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 9: a long time. 74 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:14,239 Speaker 1: And so Vincent Giganti began his covert reign out of sight, 75 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: shielded from prosecution. His administration was so cautious, secretive, and 76 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 1: powerful that it was described as the most sophisticated family 77 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: in the US. While federal prosecutors were busy rounding up 78 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: other mafia leaders, Giganty remained untouchable. Here's Michael Cherdoff. 79 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 10: We had to focus on the people that we had 80 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 10: evidence were part of the commission actively. You know, there 81 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 10: were no recordings of Giganty. There was really no evidence 82 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:44,679 Speaker 10: that we could. 83 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: Use Salerno's conviction and the belief that he was the 84 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: Genovese boss added a final layer of protection for Gigante. 85 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: But who was Vincent Giganty? Law enforcement knew parts of 86 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: his criminal history, but much about him remained a mystery, 87 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: a man shrouded in both myth and legend. One person, however, 88 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: knew the truth about arguably the most powerful boss in 89 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,239 Speaker 1: organized crime, someone who called him Dad. 90 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 7: Rita Gigante. I am the daughter of Vincent Giganty. 91 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: As a child, Rita was left largely in the dark 92 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: about her father's chosen profession, but his presence still loomed 93 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: large in her life. 94 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 7: As a child, I can remember myself sitting in the classroom, 95 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 7: very depressed, crying all the time, wanting to go home, 96 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 7: never wanting to be in school. And I never understood 97 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 7: why I would be home a lot. My mother would 98 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 7: keep me home. So those are my first memories of him. 99 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 7: I would have to say, probably about eight years old. 100 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 7: I would get sick a lot physically, so he used 101 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 7: to comfort me. I would lay on his lap and 102 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 7: he used to rub my back when I was young, 103 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 7: and I would fall asleep. That was one of the 104 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 7: first memories. 105 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: Rita grew up between two homes, her mother's home in 106 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: New Jersey and her grandmother's New York City apartment. 107 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 7: We moved out here when I was about six months old, 108 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 7: and then about a year after we moved, my dad 109 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 7: picked up and went back in the city with his mom. 110 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 7: This was in Greenwich Village, the Lower West Side, and 111 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 7: he lived on Sullivan Street with my grandmother. Kids were 112 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 7: split from him, and my mom and him were split 113 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 7: even though they were together, so we would be visiting 114 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 7: back and forth to see him. I had two older 115 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 7: sisters fifteen and sixteen years older than me, and then 116 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 7: two older brothers ten and twelve years older than me, 117 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 7: So I was pretty much a change of life baby 118 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 7: or oops, you know. So, my brothers and sisters experienced 119 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 7: a very different energy and a very different father. By 120 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 7: the time I came along, he was very caught up 121 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 7: in his business, so he had less time and less 122 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 7: energy to connect to me. 123 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: His business was running the Genevies crime family, but as 124 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: Rita remembers it, he still found time for his immediate 125 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: family too, gathering at her grandmother's house for weekly dinners. 126 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 7: It would be at least twice a week, if not 127 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 7: three times, but always on a Sunday Sunday dinner. We 128 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 7: always went to spend at my grandmother so he would 129 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 7: be there. It wasn't exciting, let's put it that way. 130 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 7: And there were no real conversations between me and my 131 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 7: dad other than maybe ten words each time I saw him, 132 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 7: and that was how are you house school? You're taking 133 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 7: care of your mom. To be that young and being 134 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 7: asked that you're taking care of your mom, you kind 135 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 7: of think that's your job. 136 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: To Gigante, family was everything. His own father had died young, 137 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: so he put a heavy significance on a child's responsibility. 138 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: He loved and took care of his own mother, and 139 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: while she loved him back, she also did approved of 140 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: his lifestyle. 141 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 7: My grandmother couldn't stand what my father did. She wanted 142 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 7: him to go to school, She wanted him to become something. 143 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 7: This began back in Italy. My great grandfather was a 144 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 7: pharmacist and doctor and he witnessed a crime by the 145 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 7: black Hand. Now the black handed in Italy back then 146 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 7: was the mafia. The black hand approached him and told him, 147 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 7: if you testify, we're going to kill your whole family. 148 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 7: And honestly, back then that's what they did. It was 149 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 7: very different in Italy than it is here. He ended 150 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 7: up killing himself. He took cyanide poisoned himself, and that's 151 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 7: how everything altered in my grandmother's life. She met my 152 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 7: grandfather Salvatore, and he wanted to come to the United 153 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 7: States because his family was here, and so she followed him, 154 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 7: left everything, left all the wealth. 155 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: Then my father, comes Gigante, grew up during the Depression 156 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: on the West Side of Manhattan. His father there was 157 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: a watchmaker and his mother a seamstress who doted on 158 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: Vincent and his three brothers. But it was another woman 159 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: who would steal his young heart, his future wife, Olympia. 160 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 7: They knew each other as babies. My grandmothers were friends, 161 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 7: so they grew up together. They had their first kiss 162 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 7: at twelve years old. But my mother remembers him as 163 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 7: this nice young boy who was very respectful. It was 164 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 7: that side of him that she could not get out 165 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 7: of her mind, and it's really why she never left him, 166 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 7: because she really loved him. It's like they never parted, 167 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 7: you know. And then they eventually got married. 168 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: But in the fifties, Lower Manhattan was not the wealthy 169 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: enclave of hipsters and fashionistas it is today. And to 170 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: survive the mean streets of his youth. To guant, he 171 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: knew he would have to use both his wits and 172 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: his fists. 173 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 7: They were broke. I think he wanted to make sure 174 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 7: that he could provide for family. So my dad, he's 175 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 7: in the street, and eventually he wants to start boxing. 176 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 7: He starts to train and wants to be a boxer, 177 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 7: and all that he gets like a little name in 178 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 7: the street that he's a good kid, he's reliable. That 179 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 7: so Vito takes some men underneath his wing, and that's 180 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 7: how it all begins. 181 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: Veto, as in Vito genovis top brass in the Luciano 182 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: crime family and a cutthroat gangster with his eyes on 183 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: the throne. 184 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 7: He started driving for him. He started doing little things 185 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 7: here and there, and he start to build his reputation 186 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 7: and his name at that point. And I think once 187 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 7: he got a taste of the power and the connection 188 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 7: to the man Veto that really loved him, his ego 189 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 7: just got swept in and it was very easy to 190 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 7: get caught up in it. 191 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: By the time Gigante was in his twenties, he was 192 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: Genoviz's top enforcer, and as his reputation grew, he was 193 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: given a nickname that stuck. Here's prosecutor Guilt Childers. 194 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 10: He got the name Chinn because he was an amateur boxer, 195 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 10: you know, a chin of granite, so he was a 196 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 10: very physical guy. He made his bones through murder and 197 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 10: other violence, you know, launch sharking, collection and things like that. 198 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 10: That's sort of how he roast to the ranks. 199 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 1: The moment to Ganty truly earned his mafia spurs came 200 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty seven when he walked up to the 201 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: boss of his own crime family, Frank Costello, pointed a 202 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: gun at his head and shot him point blank. 203 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 7: This was sanctioned by Vito Genevies and this is how 204 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 7: someone moves up in the ranks. They show their loyalty. 205 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 7: That's something my father had to do. 206 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: And though Costello miraculously survived the shooting, he refused to 207 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: identify Giganty at the trial, which remains one of the 208 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: most famous examples of omerta in mob history. 209 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 7: My dad knew going in he was never going to 210 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 7: be convicted because nobody he was going to write on 211 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 7: anybody's soul. Frank bowed out. 212 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: Giganty was either destined for mob glory or perhaps he 213 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: was just lucky, because typically in Kosinostra bungling a hit 214 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: does not bode well for the would be assassin. 215 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 7: Now, the fact that he missed my father should have 216 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 7: been a dead man, because if someone screw something like 217 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 7: that up, there's no room for them to stay. But 218 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 7: Vito was He just loved my father. I can't explain it. 219 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 7: There was just this connection between them. But surprisingly they 220 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 7: didn't take my dad out, and then he began to 221 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 7: rise further. 222 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: And rise he did. Over the next two decades, Giganty 223 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: climbed to the head of the Genevese family, his power 224 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: and survival a result of both his ferociousness and his cunning. 225 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: So how did Giganty do it? How did he manage 226 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: to run New York's most powerful family right under the 227 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: knows of one of the largest federal investigations in American history, 228 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: with perhaps the craziest KHN in mafia history. 229 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 5: The recruitment process starts, usually with young teenage kids, and 230 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 5: they visualize the glory of being in that life. 231 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: During his career in the FBI, special agent Mike Campy 232 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: spent two decades battling organized crime, and there is perhaps 233 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: no better authority on what gangsters call the life. 234 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 5: So say you grow up in a neighborhood and you 235 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 5: have social clubs where you'll see the wealth that somebody 236 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 5: may generate, or attractive women cars that can lure somebody 237 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 5: into it. That may not be what you would describe 238 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 5: as the best student. He thinks he's a tough guy. 239 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 5: The fistfights then changed into guns where you sort of 240 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 5: want to become a gangster, and you may align yourself 241 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 5: as an associate with an individual who is in organized crime. 242 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: Over the course of his career, Mike put away and 243 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: flipped dozens of associates, soldiers, captains, and bosses. Mike also 244 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: had an aptitude for numbers, which led him to pursue 245 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: a degree in accounting. 246 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 5: I did probably about three years in accounting and realized 247 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 5: that I could not visualize myself doing this as a career, 248 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 5: so I dropped accounting immediately, and about a year later, 249 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 5: coming home from working in the summer, I met an 250 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 5: individual named Jack McKenna who was an FBI agent, and 251 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 5: we had a conversation about FBI. 252 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: Similar to other investigators we spoke with It was a 253 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: family friend that set Mike on his proper path. He 254 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: arrived at the New York Field office at the hight 255 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: of the investigation into the Five Families. 256 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 5: I got to New York in nineteen eighty five. At 257 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 5: that time I was involved in labor racketeering investigations. 258 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: He immediately put his accounting skills to good use and 259 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: did so well that he even developed a reputation on 260 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: the streets. 261 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 5: I remember one time meeting a guy from the Bureau 262 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 5: of Prisons. He looked at me and he said, you're 263 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 5: Campy and I said, yeah, what, And he said it. 264 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 5: You don't know how often I heard your name on 265 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 5: prison calls. And I said, can you recall one? And 266 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 5: he said, oh, I remember somebody calling from prison to 267 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 5: a guy outside who said that he was just visited 268 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 5: by Mike Campy at FBI agent. And the inmates said, 269 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 5: hire an attorney and plead guilty. He said, but he 270 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 5: didn't charge me with anything, And he said, hire an 271 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 5: attorney and plead guilty. I'll see you in a few months. 272 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 5: I mean, I took that as a big compliment. 273 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 1: With his number crunching prowess, Mike Campy was just the 274 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: rite agent for tackling the Genovies mobsters because one of 275 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: the family's foremost talents was making obscene amounts of money. 276 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: Here's defense attorney James Leonard. 277 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 8: There were books written about John Gotti and the Gambino 278 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 8: crime family, but separated apart the genez crime family. 279 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: In addition to their usual income from gambling rackets, the 280 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: Genevies had their hand in almost everything, and Mike was 281 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: uncovering a lot of it. 282 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 5: They can generate money through bank robbery and loan sharking, extortions, 283 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 5: the stock fraud business, with the check cashing, I mean, 284 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 5: there was another scheme where they were talking about a 285 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 5: blocking sewers scheme. On a holiday weekend, they would block 286 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 5: the sewers outside huge buildings in Manhattan with the purpose 287 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 5: of an individual in charge of approving an emergency to 288 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 5: unblock the sewer that they prevented the flooding in the buildings. 289 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 5: It was like a simple process outside which took nothing, 290 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 5: and they cited like making a million dollars on a weekend, 291 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 5: and they'd split it amongst themselves. 292 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: In other words, even as the Commission trial was dismantling 293 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: the Concrete Club, the Genovise family was still raking in 294 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: the cash. They controlled the Fulton Fish Market, ports and 295 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: waterfront services, shipping container companies, convention centers, trade shows, as 296 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: well as garbage collection in all five burroughs, and if 297 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: another company attempted to encroach on Genovi's profits, they were 298 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: met with horror, like when a waste removal company began 299 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: competing for the city's business. One morning, the sales manager 300 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: found a dog's head on his front lawn. Stuffed in 301 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: its mouth was a note reading, Welcome to New York. 302 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 5: These are not people that go to work. These are 303 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 5: people that just talk kind of regular basis, how they're 304 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 5: going to use somebody in a business to generate money 305 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 5: for them. 306 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: And behind it all the family's cutthroat and elusive boss, 307 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: Vincent Gigante, who even had the audacity to extort the 308 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: biggest religious festival in little Italy. 309 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 5: At the Feast of San Gennaro. Historically it goes back decades. 310 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 5: It's as though it's a charitable organization, that the church 311 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 5: is generating money, but the reality is it's just a 312 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 5: front for organized crime. The city charges twenty five percent 313 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 5: of what they're collecting from the vendors, and the vendors 314 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 5: fill out forms with the city. Say, for instance, they're 315 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 5: being charged five hundred dollars for the stand, where in 316 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 5: reality they may be charged five thousand, depending on where 317 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 5: they're located, Like if they're right at Mulberry Street, just 318 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 5: off Canal, there's higher fee charged by the mobsters. 319 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: That to me is a perfect example, as you're saying 320 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: it of exactly how so many people are just victimized. 321 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: Here you have a food cart vendor, right, but like 322 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: where they should be paying, making the number up five hundred, 323 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: they're having to pay up the little that they have 324 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: to the mob to even get that business, which they 325 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: should have every right to do for whatever it's supposed to. 326 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 5: Cost, right, and the city loses out. It's like hundreds 327 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 5: of thousands of dollars a year, you know. I remember 328 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 5: the priest fled New York to go to South America 329 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 5: because his life was in jeopardy because he didn't want 330 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 5: the church to be a sponsor of crime. And it 331 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 5: wasn't benefiting the church, it was benefiting organized crime. 332 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: A lot of what Mike learned about these criminal operations 333 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: was from wiretaps planted in Genevie's social clubs. But there 334 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: was one person that continued to avoid ever being recorded 335 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: the boss himself, Vincent Giguanty. Here's Jim Costler again. 336 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 9: We did try to put microphones on, but we weren't 337 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 9: successful because he was that. 338 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: Secretive, employing a front boss that was just his first 339 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: layer of insulation. Giganty was known to only speak to 340 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: a select inner circle of trusted mobsters. Former Colombo capo 341 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: Michael Franzis, who managed to escape the life in the 342 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: early nineties, had this to say. 343 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 11: I'll tell you one thing about Chin. 344 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 3: He didn't care who you were. If he didn't want 345 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:15,719 Speaker 3: to meet you. 346 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 11: Made guy Coppo on the boss Boss, he wasn't going 347 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 11: to meet you. 348 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 9: That was it. 349 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 10: He was the real power in New York for quite 350 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:24,479 Speaker 10: a long time. 351 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: Anyone outside of Giganti's trust circle would receive messages second hand, 352 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: and even those communications came with a dire warning. If 353 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: a mobster was ever caught on a wire speaking Chin's name, 354 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: the punishment was death. So during his investigations, Mike learned 355 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: of a type of sign language mobsters would use. 356 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 5: I made recordings where they wouldn't say his name, where 357 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 5: they would refer to Chin Gigante by just putting their 358 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 5: finger to their chin. They're talking crimes. But they would 359 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 5: say this guy and I I'm sure, and align it 360 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 5: to the recording where this guy was chin because they'd 361 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 5: point to this chin. He had the respect of the 362 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 5: people under him and they feared him. 363 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: Gil Childers also learned of a code name they used. 364 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 10: He was extremely careful. Another case I did, which was 365 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 10: a Genevie's family case, the guys were on tape talking 366 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 10: about I've got to go downtown and see my aunt. 367 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 10: They always referred to him as a female, so that 368 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 10: was another part of his thing. But of course the 369 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 10: conversations that were on tape roysoul be like tell my 370 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 10: aunt I love him, mixing up the gender so it 371 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 10: became obvious who they were talking about. 372 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: Rita was no stranger to her father's covert communication style. 373 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: In fact, she often had a front row seat. 374 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 7: By the time I reached the age of seven or eight. 375 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 7: There was always this knowing that he was more than 376 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 7: what they were telling me, because I remember the phone 377 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 7: would always be off the hook. He never ever spoke 378 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 7: on a phone. These men that would come into my 379 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 7: grandmother's apartment very nice men. They would kiss a silo, 380 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 7: sit down, around the dining room table with him. The 381 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 7: TV was on, the radio was on, lad and I 382 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 7: would see these pieces of paper being you know, they 383 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 7: were just notes to give him information, and then he 384 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 7: would write back, and then they would take them and 385 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 7: rip them up and either flush them down the toilet 386 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 7: or they would burn them. Nobody ever really spoke above 387 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 7: a whisper, and if they wanted to directly speak to him, 388 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 7: they had to go up to him and whisper in 389 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 7: his ear. He would give them a direction to go 390 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 7: and do something, and they would nod and go one 391 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 7: by one. So this I knew was something's he's important. 392 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,239 Speaker 7: I don't know how he's important, but he is. 393 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: When Rita asked about her father's job, the answer was 394 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: a lie, and. 395 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 7: She knew it. I was told several different things. He 396 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 7: worked for a hat company, trucking. Those were the two 397 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 7: most that I remember. 398 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: But secrets can be kept only for so long. One 399 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: way or another. They forced their way out, and being 400 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: an unwitting accomplice to her father's secret life was taking 401 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: a dangerous toll. 402 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 7: I was sixteen, so I was in high school and 403 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 7: there was this girl, typical eighties girls, big hair, all 404 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 7: of that and she would spew a lot of stuff 405 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 7: about my family and me being a mafia princess and 406 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 7: all of that, and so many people were afraid of us, 407 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 7: and kids couldn't hang out with me. And I think 408 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 7: I was so angry because it was probably a piece 409 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 7: of me that knew there was something to it, but 410 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 7: I didn't know what. I was having a really bad day, 411 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 7: and I cornered her in the bathroom, and before she 412 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 7: could even try to make a move to get out 413 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 7: of the bathroom, I just wrapped my hand around the 414 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 7: back of her thick hair and I pulled her head 415 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 7: right into the sink and I just slammed her head 416 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 7: in the sink. She fell to the floor. She was bleeding. 417 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 7: I stepped on her face and I said, I'm done 418 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 7: with you. And I remember instantly a brief flashback, but 419 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 7: I didn't know where it came from. Then all of 420 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 7: a sudden, I snapped out of it, and I walked 421 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 7: out of the bathroom, and I'm like, where did that 422 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 7: come from? 423 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: In her heart, Rita knew that her violent outburst had 424 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: its roots in her traumatic childhood, and in one memory 425 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: in particular. 426 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 7: I remember clearly as a flashback, not so much that 427 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 7: it was part of my memories until I had the flashback. 428 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 7: So I remember being underneath my grandmother's dining room table. 429 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 7: I was five years old, and I was playing and 430 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 7: there was always a radio and a TV on, and 431 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 7: they were pretty loud, you know, just in case anybody 432 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 7: was talking or anything, it could be buffled out. I 433 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 7: could hear like a struggle coming through the door. I 434 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 7: remember being under the table, and I remember hearing the 435 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 7: scuffle coming through like the hallway, and then it ended 436 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 7: up where my grandmother's dining room entrances. I knew like 437 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 7: something was going on, but I didn't know what it was. 438 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 7: So I backed up and I kind of just wrapped 439 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 7: my arms around my legs and I, you know, covered 440 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,239 Speaker 7: my mouth and I was just quiet. And then I 441 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 7: remember hearing like like someone punched somebody in the face 442 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 7: and the man fell to the floor and he was bleeding. 443 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 7: Blood was starting to trickle out of his nose and 444 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 7: coming towards me. But I remember very vividly my father's 445 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 7: hand and the only reason why I knew it was 446 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 7: his hand was because of his pinky ring. You know, 447 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 7: I'm under the table, he's above me, and I see 448 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 7: his hand, you know, hitting this man like over and 449 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 7: over again his face to the point where the guy was, 450 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 7: you know, unconscious. And then the last thing he did 451 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 7: was take his foot and just step on his face 452 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 7: and like in a very grave, low voice, he said, 453 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 7: don't ever disrespect me again. And then he told them 454 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 7: get him out of here. 455 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: Rita was frozen in fear, shaking silently underneath the table. 456 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: She was one of the few people to witness her 457 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: father's violent temper and live to tell about it. 458 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 7: You know, what happens to all children, I think when 459 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 7: they have that kind of trauma, is they go inward. 460 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 7: They know not to speak a word. I remember at 461 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 7: that moment, I just started to shake from the inside out. 462 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 7: It was probably minutes later where I heard my mother 463 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 7: and my grandmother calling for me, because nobody knew where 464 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 7: I was. When they looked on the kneath the table, 465 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 7: they saw me shaking and crying, and my mother pulled 466 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 7: me out and she was holding me, and I was 467 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 7: just told, you know, it's okay. Daddy was just angry. 468 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 7: You're safe, You're this, you're that. But I don't ever 469 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 7: remember seeing my father's face. It was like I buried 470 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 7: my face in my mother's chest area, and they just kind. 471 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 12: Of ripped me out of there and that was it. It 472 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 12: was the memory of that day that came back to 473 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 12: her when she attacked her high school classmate. It left 474 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 12: her wanting answers. 475 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 7: I was flipping out, what is this? Why are people 476 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 7: calling me mafia princes? I said, I know he's important. 477 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 7: I know people go to him fit things, but I 478 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 7: don't know what it is that he actually does. So 479 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 7: my sisters sat with me and they described everything and 480 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 7: went through the whole thing from the beginning. 481 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 1: The truth about her father and the magnitude of his 482 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: power came as a massive shock. It was information that 483 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: very few people possessed, including the FBI. 484 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,360 Speaker 7: I was told he was the head of the Genevese 485 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 7: crime family and the head of the Commission, which meant 486 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 7: he was the head of all five families, which means 487 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 7: nothing could be sanctioned unless somebody came to ask my father, 488 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 7: especially if someone wanted to kill someone. And that his 489 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 7: hand stretched across the country. 490 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: Because by the nineteen eighties, Gigante was not just the 491 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: most powerful Boston, New York. His authority extended over crime 492 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: families in New England, Buffalo, Philadelphia and the Midwest, and 493 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: with profits of over one hundred million a year, the 494 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: Genovese family was earning more than half the companies on 495 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: the fortune five hundred. 496 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 7: I had no idea, no idea. 497 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: For his youngest daughter. It was a staggering revelation. 498 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 7: All the pieces of the puzzle start to snap into 499 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 7: place at that age, the people around the table and 500 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 7: all things that I questioned, I began to come to 501 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 7: the realization of, Okay, this is why. So there was 502 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 7: a lot of different emotions that came with it. One 503 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 7: was relief in finally knowing everything, the idea that he 504 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 7: was this force of nature that people didn't cross. Actually 505 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 7: I felt very protected by it. And then the other 506 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 7: part of it was like, oh my god, like the 507 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 7: Feds could come at any time and take him down. 508 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 7: They could take us with him, because we were all 509 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 7: part of this. So there was this struggle inside of 510 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 7: me of this is my family. I love them. I 511 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 7: would never utter a word to anyone about it other 512 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 7: than therapy, and I knew that they were sworn that 513 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,719 Speaker 7: they couldn't say anything unless they felt I was in trouble. 514 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 7: Oh my gosh, I'm. 515 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: Just picturing the therapist when you say, like my father's 516 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: head of a major organized crime family. 517 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 7: She went white, like everything drained out of her. But 518 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 7: she was very good at recovering, and she helped me tremendously. 519 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: For Rita, therapy became a refuge from the guilt and 520 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: anguish caused by the knowledge of what her father did 521 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: for a living and what he was capable of doing. 522 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: It was a burden few people could bear, and in fact, 523 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: even the boss himself was starting to show outward signs 524 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: that the mob life was taking a significant psychological toll. 525 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 13: Giganty has taken to walking the streets near his Greenwich 526 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 13: Village home, unshaven and wearing just a bathrobe. His friends 527 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 13: and family say Giganty is mentally unbalanced. I already say 528 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 13: it's an elaborate hoax. 529 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: But was Gigante really starting to crack or was his 530 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: insanity act just another smokescreen to protect him from prosecution. 531 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: It would take a showdown with the Feds and an 532 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: up and coming rival to finally reveal the truth. With 533 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: federal investigators bearing down on all the top bosses of 534 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: organized crime, one boss was deploying a myriad of tactics 535 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: to avoid prosecution. While the Commission trial was a sweeping success. 536 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: It also showed the government's hand, revealing the many ways 537 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: they had successfully infiltrated organized crime, and Vincent Giganty was 538 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: taking note. From refusing to use telephones, speaking in code, 539 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: and even deploying a front boss to act as as representative, 540 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: Giganty avoided leaving any incriminating evidence for Feds to use 541 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: against him. But none of these strategic deceptions could hold 542 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: a candle to his most impressive ruse. 543 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 11: Vincent the China Ganti has appeared as a mentally ill 544 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 11: invalid who for years has walked around New York streets 545 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 11: in a bathrobe, mumbling to himself. To the FEDS, that's 546 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 11: been an elaborate act. To his family, it's the truth. 547 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: There's no cure for what he has. Andrew Weisman began 548 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: his career as an AUSA in the Eastern District of 549 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: New York in nineteen ninety one. 550 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 3: When I started, I was in a tiny little office 551 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 3: that I think had been the equivalent of like a 552 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 3: broom closet, and my supervisors had below ground offices where 553 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 3: people could go by. You could see them peeing on 554 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 3: the street and throwing trash, but you know what, I've 555 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 3: never been happier. So the physical space was pretty bad, 556 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 3: but the work was so great that you never even 557 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 3: thought about the physical conditions. 558 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: Andrew worked his way up to deputy chief of the 559 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: Organized Crime and Racketeering Section, and for years he watched 560 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: Gigante's increasingly bizarre public behavior. 561 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 3: People talk about the Godfather, but he was known as 562 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 3: the odd Father for many, many, many years, decades. He 563 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 3: had been viewed as and presented himself as incompetent. He 564 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 3: had run around the village in a bathrobe and pajamas 565 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 3: and looked disheveled. 566 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: His appearance was a far cry from the slick suited 567 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: image of his mafia predecessors, and his behavior disguised his 568 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: true role as the boss. In public, Gigante would mumble 569 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: and stumble his way through the streets of Greenwich Village. 570 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: FBI agent Charlotte Lang recalls one time when a couple 571 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: of her colleagues paid Giganty a visit and were met 572 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: with a curious surprise. 573 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 6: He was at his mother's apartment and she goes, yeah, 574 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 6: I go in, you can talk to him. And when 575 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 6: the agents walked in, he was in the bathroom, standing 576 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 6: in the shower stall with an umbrella, holding an umbrella up. 577 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: Within law enforcement, Gigantes's antics earned him the nickname the 578 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: Enigma in a Bathrobe, but according to Gil Childers, there 579 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: was a growing suspicion amongst his colleagues that Gigante's incompetence 580 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: was all in act. 581 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 10: He would roam the streets by day in his bathrobe, 582 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 10: mumbling to himself, urinating on fire hydrants, and doing all 583 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 10: sorts of things to make himself look like he was crazy, 584 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 10: so he figured that would insulate him from prosecutions. 585 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: But there was some evidence that perhaps it wasn't an 586 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: act at all. Multiple doctors and psychiatrists issued reports that 587 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: Giganty was, in their words, a psychotic, a mute, or 588 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: possibly schizophrenic. Others that his mind was quote infantile and primitive, 589 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: with a below normal IQ of sixty nine to seventy two. 590 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 14: Not what you'd expect of an alleged organized crime boss, 591 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 14: and relatives of the god he's saying he's not a boss, 592 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 14: he's a paranoid schizophrenic, wanders around hallucinating and has to 593 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 14: take florazine four times a day. 594 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 1: These diagnoses and his public reputation as someone with severe 595 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,959 Speaker 1: mental impairment created a cloud of uncertainty about his role 596 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: in the Genevese leadership. After all, how could someone with 597 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: his disability be the dawn of Don's It was also 598 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: laying groundwork for a clever defense in the face of 599 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: a potential federal prosecution, because being deemed mentally unfit to 600 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: stand trial might just be the get out of jail 601 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: free card he was hoping to receive. So was Vincent 602 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: Gigante as mentally unfit as he said he was. Here's 603 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: his daughter, Rita. 604 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 7: At some point I was told it's got paranoid schizophrenia. 605 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 7: I never thought it was real because I started to 606 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 7: see patterns of when he would do it. One of 607 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 7: the doctors came to visit. I mean immediately everybody went 608 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 7: into role. At that point, it was like my grandmother, 609 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 7: hurry up, get him his medicine. He's not well today. 610 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 7: The TV would have cartoons on. He'd be mimicking the 611 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 7: cartoons and he was good. I'm gonna tell you, he 612 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 7: was good. The doctor would come in evaluate him, and 613 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 7: then once he was gone, that was it. He was 614 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:19,720 Speaker 7: my father again. 615 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: According to Rita, her entire family was in on the 616 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: ruse which often included accompanying her father on his walks 617 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: around the neighborhood. 618 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 7: So you tell me, come on, I'm gonna walk. I'm like, oh, 619 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 7: God help me. He would leave his pajamas on, put 620 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 7: his robe on, mess up his hair, even if he 621 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 7: wore a hat. You know, he would never be clean shaven. 622 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 7: He would like stumble in the streets. He was five ten, 623 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 7: five eleven. I'm five to one on a good day. 624 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 7: He'd whisper to me, make like you're holding me up, 625 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 7: and I'm looking at him like really, people are not 626 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 7: really gonna believe this. And then he would stop and 627 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 7: talk to the tree or the parking met or whatever 628 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 7: it was. He'd make statements, it's the parking meter. It's 629 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,839 Speaker 7: a nice day today. God told me to say this, 630 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 7: you know something along those lines. He would mumble and 631 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 7: say just words like sporadic words and stuff. Wasn't always 632 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 7: like a full sentence, you know what I mean. And 633 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 7: then it with people coming down the block. Those who 634 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 7: knew him would tip their hat or smile at him. 635 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 7: Others that didn't know him would walk to the other side. 636 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 7: They would look at us like we were crazy. Not 637 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 7: an easy task. 638 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 15: Let me tell you for nearly two decades. 639 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 2: Vincent Gigante's relatives have said he walked around in the 640 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 2: bathroobe talking to himself because he was emotionally and physically ill. 641 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 1: Her father had been committed to his Mental Illness Act 642 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: for as long as she could remember, even willing to 643 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: check himself into the psychiatric word to maintain the charade. 644 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 7: He was checking himself into three weeks at a time 645 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 7: whenever the fens were getting close to him. But I 646 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,399 Speaker 7: think going in and experiencing him checking himself into an 647 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 7: institution where these people were on the third floor, the 648 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 7: ones that were the sickest. This was brutal, especially for me. 649 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 7: They would be roaming the floors, they would be cursing 650 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 7: at you. It was sad because I thought to myself, 651 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 7: these are people that are sick, like there really need help, 652 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 7: and you're in here faking like you're making a mockery 653 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 7: of this illness. I was beside myself with it. 654 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: But Gigante's deception came in handy, especially when the FEDS 655 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: were turning up the heat on his fellow mobsters. 656 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 3: Actually, shortly before the commission case was brought, vinc Giganti 657 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 3: had a law enforcement source and knew that the indictment 658 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 3: was coming down, and thus checked himself into a hospital 659 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 3: before the commission case happened. 660 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 1: As it turns out, it wasn't just the federal government 661 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: that Giganty was worried about, because while the Chin continued 662 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: his mental masquerade, he was also contending with his biggest adversary, 663 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: a brand new Gambino boss whose public image was a 664 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 1: far from the boss in the bathrobe. 665 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 8: The New York tabloids had christened John Gotti the Dapper Don, 666 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 8: And anytime you would see John Gotti, he's wearing a 667 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 8: two thousand dollars suit, hand painted silk ties. His hair 668 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 8: is perfectly quaff. And then Vincent Chin Gaganty out of 669 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 8: the fanfare, never clean shaven, always wearing a natty bathrobe, 670 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 8: in a hat, wandering the streets holding somebody's arm, mumbling 671 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 8: to himself. And that guy was more powerful than John Gotti, 672 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 8: and he could not have been more polar opposite in 673 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 8: the image that was projected. 674 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: In the nineteen eighties, Gotti's star was on the rise, 675 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 1: and his conspicuous display of flash and style was obscene 676 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,240 Speaker 1: to Giganty. But there was another reason that Giganty wanted 677 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 1: Gotti dead. He had broken Kosen nose ST's most fundamental rule. 678 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 3: You can't kill a boss without approval from the Commission, 679 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,319 Speaker 3: and obviously bosses and other families would take that role 680 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 3: particularly seriously for their own self preservation. Well, John Gotti 681 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,280 Speaker 3: had killed Paul Castellano outside of sparks. 682 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 5: Castelano's murder was not a sanctioned murder by the Commission. 683 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 5: The Lucasi and Genovese family were an agreement that the 684 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 5: retaliation is to occur. 685 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: Gigante had ordered a Luksi soldier to kill John Gotti 686 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: and his underboss Frank to Jacob, but there was an 687 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 1: unusual twist. The hit had to be done with a bomb, 688 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: and according to Special Agent Mike Campy, this method of 689 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,879 Speaker 1: murder was supposed to be off limits even for the mob. 690 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,800 Speaker 5: The car bomb situation, that's what they do in Italy. 691 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 5: That's not how you're supposed to kill here in the US. 692 00:40:58,920 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 5: That's prohibited. 693 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: Tipped off that Gotti and his deputy would be at 694 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: the social club that day, gas Pipe and his crew 695 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: approached Gotti's car with the homemade bomb, using a detonator 696 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:16,280 Speaker 1: made from a toy car remote. The blast killed two people, 697 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,760 Speaker 1: but incredibly, Gotti was not one of them. It turns 698 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,359 Speaker 1: out that he was tipped off about the potential hit 699 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: and stayed away from the meeting. 700 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 16: Sunday afternoon, a police officer had carried Jajico's body from 701 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 16: this car. The Chico, second in command of the Gambino 702 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 16: organized crime family, had opened the passenger door. A bomb 703 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 16: under the front seat exploded, killing him. Why the most 704 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 16: popular law enforcement theory revenge. 705 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: With the failed hit, the beef between the reclusive Giganty 706 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: and the flashy Gotti was brought into the open, and 707 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: while the teflon Dawn never seemed to be afraid of 708 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: the spotlight, it was clear that Giganty too would no 709 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: longer be able to work in the shadows. 710 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 7: You could look at it in this way too. There 711 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,760 Speaker 7: were men dressed in three thousand dollars suits getting away 712 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 7: with all kinds of things, being very showy. But then 713 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 7: there's this man who is now dressed in the bathrobe, 714 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 7: slippers and pajamas, who you could say, well, that would 715 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,479 Speaker 7: draw attention as well, right, and. 716 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: Make the government really want to get him and prove 717 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 1: that it's false. 718 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,399 Speaker 7: Exactly, so, did he bring the heat not the way 719 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 7: other families conducted themselves, not in that way, and that 720 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,439 Speaker 7: really did not help moving forward, because once you bring 721 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 7: that heat, they're just going to stay there till they 722 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 7: figure it out. They needed him because he was the 723 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 7: head of the commission, and they were going to get 724 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 7: him at all courts. 725 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 15: This is Vincent Gigante, aka the Chin. Now take a 726 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 15: good look. According to a judge, he avoided prosecutors for 727 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 15: twenty seven years by pulling a crazy act. According to 728 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 15: most cops, it was worthy of an oscar performance. Cops 729 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 15: say he's the last of the big time organized crime bosses. 730 00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 15: Now he's set to go on trial. 731 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 2: Next time on law and order criminal justice system. 732 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 7: Vito Genevies and some of the others they were ruthless 733 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,839 Speaker 7: and they would kill someone at the drop of a hat. 734 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 7: My father was not that way. 735 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,239 Speaker 9: He got a phone call in the middle of the 736 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 9: night from Euganti's right hand man, told his wife, this 737 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 9: is it. I guess I'll never see you again. 738 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 5: He was forewarned that Sevino was a rat and he 739 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 5: was trying to warn others to stay away from him. 740 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 3: Vincent Giganti had a wife named Olympia. He also had 741 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,839 Speaker 3: a girlfriend named Olympia. 742 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 2: Law and Order. Criminal Justice System is a production of 743 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 2: Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. Our host is Anna Sega Nicolazi. 744 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 2: This episode was written by Chandler Mays and Anna Sega Nicolazzi. 745 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 2: Executive produced by Dick Wolf, Elliott Wolf, and Stephen Michael 746 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 2: at Wolf Entertainment on behalf of iHeartRadio. Executive produced by 747 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 2: Alex Williams and Matt Frederick, with supervising producers Trevor Young 748 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 2: and Chandler Mays and producers Jesse Funk, Noms Griffin and 749 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 2: Rima Elkayali. This season is executive produced by Anna Sega Nicolazzi, 750 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 2: story producer Walker Lamond. Our researchers are Carolyn Talmage and 751 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,800 Speaker 2: Luke Stentz. Editing in sound design by Rima Alkali, original 752 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 2: music by John O'Hara, original theme by Mike Post, additional 753 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 2: music by Steve Moore, and additional voice over by me 754 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 2: Steve Zarnkelton. Special thanks to Fox five in New York, 755 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 2: ABC and CBS for providing archival material for the show. 756 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio and Wolf Entertainment, visit the 757 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or Wherever you listen to your 758 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 2: favorite shows. Thanks for listening.