WEBVTT - Are siblings more influential than parents? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.840 Let's up, y'all before we start? What up? Y'all? Before 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:07.520 we start this week's episode, I want to give you 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:09.520 guys a heads up that we're going to be off 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:14.680 for the next few weeks. We have some exciting announcements 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.040 which we'll be able to tell you all about very soon. 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.319 But in the meantime, if you want to be the 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.480 first to hear about it, subscribe to our newsletter, No 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.640 Such Thing That Show, and you can also follow us 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:32.360 on Instagram at No sich Thing Show, and you'll be 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.919 the first to hear about our new and exciting updates 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.360 that we will tell you all about very very very 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:42.920 very very very very soon. Okay, let's talk about siblings. 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.400 I'm Manny, I'm Noah, this. 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:47.319 Is Devin, and this is no such thing the show 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.280 where we settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:54.400 doing the research. On today's episode, who's more influential your 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:56.520 parents or your siblings? 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.400 There's no no such things touch thing. 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:05.319 Touch than. 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:20.840 To So today's episode was inspired by a new book 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:24.880 called The Family Dynamic by Susan Dominis, who I'll be 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.720 talking to later in this episode. The book profiles six 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.440 families with multiple successful siblings and tries to analyze what 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:36.360 factors have actually made them successful. So she looks into 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.320 the influence of their parents, their siblings, the environments they 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.680 grew up in. After reading the book, I think there's 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.920 an argument to be made that siblings are actually more 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:51.960 influential than our parents. But why don't we start here 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.320 Since we all have siblings, let's go around and break 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:58.120 down when we fall on our ber folder and how 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.640 many siblings we have. So I'll start. I have one 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:04.160 sibling who is fifteen years younger than me, so I'm 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.840 thirty two and he is seventeen. Noah, I am a 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:08.400 middle child. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.080 So I have an older brother who is thirty six, 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:19.040 and a younger sister who is six years younger than 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:20.080 me twenty six. 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.400 I always struggle remembering my siblings agesc too, so but 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.200 let's see if I can do this. I've got an 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.960 older brother who's thirty five or thirty six. There's me 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:32.320 who's thirty three. My younger sister's only a year younger 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:33.359 than me, so she's thirty two. 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.799 Irish siblings twins? What do they call that? Iris? Twins? Oh? 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.840 Right after the other one? Yeah, if that's derogatory, I 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:44.560 didn't come up with that, heyth. 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:46.680 A lot of people are saying we need more of 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.000 that Catholic twins. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:52.640 And then my youngest brother is twenty nine, I think 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:54.320 twenty eight or twenty nine. 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.280 He's not thirty yet. I know that. Who can say 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:01.440 we're all, let's say, relatively successful year old living in 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:07.120 New York. What were your family dynamics like growing up? Like, 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:09.360 did your parents have really high expectations when it came 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:11.440 to school? You know, some people grow up in households 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:13.720 where they have like really strict curfews, like they can't 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.080 hang out with friends at certain times. Like what was 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.680 what was the vibe at home growing up? Yeah? 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:23.240 I would say relatively strict in terms of like, yeah, 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.600 sleepovers and that kind of stuff. I will say my 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.360 older brother kind of took the brunt of that. Like 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:32.119 by the time you get to the second child, it's 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:33.200 not as strict. 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.640 Mm. So okay, So give me some examples, Like in 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.400 terms of school, what was the expectation. 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:40.560 For all four of us? 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.960 It was straight a's okay. Yeah, So if you came home, 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.160 would it be it'd be like what's going on here? 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:47.400 What's going on? But were your parents like checking your 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.760 homework every night. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay. 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.200 Yeah, I would say mine was sound just less less 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.800 strict than that. There was definitely expectations of, you know, 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:59.360 doing well and getting your stuff done. But I was 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.960 And it's interesting. I'd be curious what my older brother 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:07.240 would say. But for me, it was like pretty hands off. 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:08.840 It felt like where it's like they trusted me to 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:09.600 get my stuff done. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.119 Yeah, they didn't. I don't remember. 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.680 Being like beg to do my homework or do things 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:15.080 like that. 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.520 How about hobbies, like would they make you like play 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.400 piano or read? Like in our household, they made sure 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:21.680 we were always reading something. 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:23.120 Yeah, did you have to have to like read a 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:24.240 book a week or ye? 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:27.520 That stuff was always like usually tied to school, like 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:29.440 the summer reading and that sort of thing. But you know, 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.720 I mean I read, My family read and did this thing, 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:33.880 so it was kind of natural to do. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.280 Okay. It wasn't like so you just liked reading. 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:40.520 Yeah, which is parenting, But yeah, I wasn't like what 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:41.799 are you reading this month? 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:42.719 For godcha? 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:44.840 You have to read parents an of books? Yeah, I 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.039 would say it's similar to nouh. It was like the 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.640 expectation was like, you're going to do well in school. 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.560 But my parents I don't remember it, Like I'm sure 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:55.599 when I was much younger they checked my homework and stuff, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.599 but it was like pretty much on me. So it 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.400 was more so like here, we have expectations, but like 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.359 it's up to you to like fulfill them. We're not 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.599 going to give you like a step by step breakdown 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.359 on how you are going to achieve this. All right, 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:10.480 So we talked a lot about kind of expectations with 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.000 your parents. Were your siblings like pressuring you to do 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:17.520 things or like on you about stuff, especially because both 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:18.960 of you had older siblings. 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:20.880 Like, so this is something that I think is key 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.640 is my brother's four years older than me, so we 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.520 didn't really overlap in school. I feel like when people 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.480 have siblings that are a year apart or two years apart, 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.839 they're so tethered socially and kind of in the school 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.080 system where it's like every teacher is going to know, okay, 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:39.799 those are the those are the manny brothers. 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.159 Yeah, yeah, you know, I did my stuff. 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.359 So yeah, my brother wasn't caught in to discipline me much, 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.160 but he was a good student, so definitely set an 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.479 example in that sense. He definitely took his work seriously 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.080 and then I saw him, you know, go to school 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:54.760 and other things, so it was like, okay, so. 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.200 He led by example more so than not like yo, 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.280 no specific like just knock it off and do this, 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.560 and we and then just more broadly like we never 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:05.000 like fought really or bickered. 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.719 Like other than like sure small things or whatever. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.080 My dynamic my older brother in terms of school is 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:14.240 a little different because well, we we're classic like immigrant family, 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.280 where like we're here in this country, you guys better 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.320 fucking do perfect or they'll kick us out. 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:21.400 And uh. 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.880 But he so he was just like an insanely good student, 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.480 and I think just because of the dynamic of like 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.760 that immigrant family who like wants you to become pharmacists, 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:32.920 that kind of stuff. It went down a chain of 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:34.920 like my parents were really strict on him, and then 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:38.920 he was definitely checking up on my schooling and being like, well, 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:40.640 you know, how come you didn't do we better in 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.680 this class? Blah blah blah. It wasn't like he would 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:46.960 be a that upset, but more like checking in. 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.120 Yeah, So he led more by like actually instruction. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.440 By example and also by like it was pretty like 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.920 kind of hands on in the early Like I won 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:02.000 the spelling bee at my school in fourth grade and 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:08.320 so then they sent me to like the city spelling bee. 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:12.600 I was practicing for the city championship with my older 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.200 brother and that was like, you know, he was really 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.840 drilling me on the words and stuff, and like then 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.720 I went up there and failed to spell like sorcerer 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:25.400 or something like that, and then he was like disappointed 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:30.320 like that kind of yeah, sorcerer, I hope so s 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.200 O R C E. 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:34.840 R E R nice, well done? 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.360 Can I get the country of Orgony? 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:39.480 Yeah? 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.120 It was like he was like involved but not but 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.720 kind of in a chill way, like it wasn't ever like, 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:45.120 damn my brother's home. 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:46.320 I needed a cool uncle. 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:47.840 But he kind of had to do that as well 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.680 because our parents were working all the time. And it's 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:52.920 crazy to think, like he was actually like twelve when 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.920 this was happening. Yeah, took on a lot of responsibility early. 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.160 And then you know, obviously with me, it's very different 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.000 having a brother. You know, I was in high school 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.200 when my brother was born, so people always like, well, 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.000 you had such a big age difference, like were you 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.360 guys close and we were because I would drag him 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.120 around and like it was in all my like student 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.480 films at the time, Like I would put him in stuff, 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:18.760 So I would hang out with him a lot. But 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.400 obviously it is a very different dynamic. So one of 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.520 the things that really drew me to Susan's reporting is 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.640 her focusing in on families with multiple successful siblings and 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.000 influence that they have on one another. I feel like 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.040 most of the time we were talking about like successful people, 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.480 we're usually talking about their parents and how their raise. 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.160 So neither one of you have actually read this book 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:45.440 yet that's or definitely done any research. So I'm curious, 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.120 just based on what we were talking about in terms 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.480 of influences and that sort of thing, who do you 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.640 think has been more influential to where you are today? 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.400 Your parents or your siblings. 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:58.520 It's got to be I think it's got to be 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:03.000 my siblings, And I think the reason. One of the 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.760 reasons could be that my parents are like immigrants to 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:07.800 this country and they just come from like kind of 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.960 a completely different culture, whereas my siblings we all grew 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:17.520 up here and I don't know, we like culturally socially, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.280 we were much more similar to each other than we 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:21.160 were to our parents. 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.440 No, it's definitely a mix. 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.240 I'd probably say my parents overall, just as far as 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.760 my kind of I don't know how to structure my 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.000 life and those sorts of things. But then there's obvious 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.439 things like I went to the same college as my brother, 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:37.960 and you know, he did well in school, so I 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.800 wanted to do well in school. So things like that. 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.040 We kind of diverged at a certain point in terms 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.040 of interests and kind of you know, career type and 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:48.720 things like that. But there's definitely things where it's like, Okay, 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:50.000 he set an example for me. 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:54.600 But you still think that your parents at the end 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.040 of the day still more influential, even if he was 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:58.200 a positive influence. 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.640 Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's hard to kind 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:06.240 of quantify, I guess, or like delineate what came from who, 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.640 But that's just kind of my gut feeling, I guess. 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.280 Okay, we're going to take a quick break, and when 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.280 we come back, we'll hear from Susan and her reporting 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:32.800 on family dynamics. All right, we're back. This is no 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:37.720 such thing. I'm manny Noah, Devin, Can I have you 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.559 start by introducing yourself sure. 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.160 My name is Susan Dominus, and I am the author 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.480 of The Family Dynamic, A Journey inside the Mystery of 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.200 Sibling Success. I'm also a staff writer at the Sunday 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:51.560 New York Times magazine. 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.760 So as a reminder, Susan's book profile six different families. 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.640 So I was curious why she chose these specific families. 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:00.840 When we look at a family that has, you know, 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.480 one kid who's wildly successful, I think you can think 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.480 that maybe that kid was an outlier, a bunch of 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.720 lucky things happened to that child, and or that person 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:11.640 was extremely talented. 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:12.600 And was an outlier in that way. 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:16.040 But I was interested in families where multiple siblings were 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.680 very successful, because when you see it across the board, 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.360 then you kind of think, well, maybe there was something 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.679 consistent that the parents were doing in the family home 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.280 that inspired those kids. And I was curious to find 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:30.320 out what those things were. 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:38.040 So we already talked a bit about our own family dynamics, 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.720 but I was curious to hear what Susan's family dynamic was. Like. 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.559 I have an older brother and an older sister, and 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:47.720 I grew up in the seventies and eighties, which most 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.160 of us recalls an era of benign neglect. 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.120 My parents definitely expected us. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.839 To get good grades, and if they were good grades 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.160 were not forthcoming, that was a problem. But beyond that, 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.960 they didn't have particularly life big dreams for us other 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.280 than that we have stable careers and you know, happy lives. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.839 But when Susan was younger, she also spent time with 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.680 other families where she noticed a very different family dynamic. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:15.679 My parents used to go on vacation just the two 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.720 of them, or sometimes they traveled for work, and they 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.960 would leave us with family friends for up to ten days, 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:23.800 maybe even a little bit longer, each of us in 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.000 a different household. And the particular family friends that I 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.040 stayed with them most had like these really elaborate dinner 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:36.000 time cultural kind of enrichment opportunities where the father would 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.760 do very elaborate math word games with the kids, like, 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.360 you know, playing is leaving Albuquerque flying x number of 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.120 miles per hour, another one is leaving another city, what 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.360 time is it when they cross paths, you know, where 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:51.160 they would talk about current events and this very deliberate way, 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.079 and I loved it until the moment when the father 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.520 turned to me and asked me one of those math questions, 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.959 and I burst into tears. 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:01.600 Because like, there was no way in hell that I 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:02.160 could do that. 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.520 I was amazed, and I loved watching the kids work 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:05.640 it out, but like I couldn't. 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:07.959 It sounds like my worst nightmare. Like we're trying to 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.599 have dinner and you're asking me math questions that I 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:12.920 need to work out in my head. 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.280 Well it's funny because I always admit that I was 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:21.360 a very ambitious kid, and I think they did want to. 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.000 Do something exciting with my life. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.800 And I was sort of intrigued by the fact that 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.560 the parents were giving their kids this boost beyond our 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.680 pretty mediocre public high school education that we were getting. 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.200 So I both envied it a little bit and also 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.520 was relieved when I got back to my house and 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:40.680 all we had to do. 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.720 My father was very strict about chewing with your mouth clothes. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.319 That was like the big imperative for our dinner table. 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:52.280 So I'm curious, but what were your dinner time routines. 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.520 Did you have any specific like every night we have 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:57.760 to do ex for dinner? Were you getting math prolems 0:13:57.800 --> 0:13:58.559 at the dinner table? 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:01.960 Not every night, but like definitely there were times when 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.040 my dad would be like at dinner, like tell me 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.040 what nine times four is or whatever, just so like 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.160 just to kind of quiz us on the thing that 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.160 we were. Yeah, but no, mostly I think our dinners 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:13.840 were pretty chill. 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.600 You know. My ritual was at the dinner table. We 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.440 always had a TV in the kitchen. Oh oh we do. 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:21.560 Yeah, that's great TV dinners. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.520 So kind of in the start of a book, Susan really 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.160 comes at the idea that parents have this like huge 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.880 impact on the outcome of their kids' lives. She says, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.320 you know, obviously there's some basic things that parents can 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.000 do they set their kids up for success. But she 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.080 makes the argument that these little, like small minute things 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.320 that parents think so hard about about like should we 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.720 have a chore wheel, and like these small decisions what 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:50.880 rules should we have, they don't really matter all that much. 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.680 Yeah, it's basically we know this from twins studies, and 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.720 from twins you've been separated at birth. And there are 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.800 critiques of this research, but most behavioral genet at least 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.360 will tell you that you know, you come into the 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.800 earth and you have certain genetic variations that lead you 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:10.040 in certain directions, and that accounts for like fifty percent 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.040 of the differences among people in a population, let's say. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:15.400 But then there's also just this. 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.840 Huge environmental effect, and people often think of that as 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:23.160 like parenting. But the environmental effect is like everything that 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.160 happens to you. It's the school that you go to, 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:27.720 it's what teacher you had, it's your siblings, it's like 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:29.840 whether it was sunny where you grew up. It's what 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.080 opportunities were presented to you, and a huge amount of 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.800 like chance and luck and happenstance. So parenting, when you 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:38.960 think about it, by the time kids are five years old, 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:40.840 you know, there's only so many hours a day you're 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.360 spending with your parents, and there's so much that happens 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.080 over the course of the day that your parents have 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.360 nothing to do with. So the idea that you know, 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.920 whether you enforce rules strictly or not, or make your 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:52.720 kid practice for half an hour of piano or an 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:54.600 hour a day, and that's going to have some like 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:59.320 huge effect on their diligence or their conscientiousness. I don't 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.400 I think the search suggests that's probably not true. You know, 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.760 parenting matters for kids. I would say it matters in 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.040 the moment for kids and you know, like, how do 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.040 they feel, how is that relationship? Are they happy to 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:10.840 come home at the end of the day, and all 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.120 of that obviously matters. Are there things you can do 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.440 to make your kids, you know, excel? The answer is 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:17.720 probably less than you think. 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:24.000 Wow, So, like the circumstances in your life probably have 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.760 a lot more sway than the way you're raised. 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.600 Well, I think the point that she makes is like 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:32.400 it makes so much sense on you, hear right. It's like, 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.360 especially when you're younger, you spend so much time at school, 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.800 after school activity, hanging out with your friends. You don't 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.400 spend outside of weekends that much like one on one 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.640 time with your parents. There's a lot of time most 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:47.600 of the time you're not spending with your parents. You know, 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.280 most of the time you're spending when your parents you're sleeping. 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:52.320 So I think what she's saying is that, like not 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.120 parents don't matter at all. It's just like there's so 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.000 many things outside of the parents control that happen day 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.760 to day, and often when parents are thinking about how 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.040 successful their kids are going to be, they're only thinking 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.480 about the influence that they have and the things that 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.280 they are bestowing onto their kids. They're not thinking about 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.359 all the random things that can happen to them throughout 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.720 the day that can really put them on a certain 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.359 trajectory that they will have no say on. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:24.359 Yeah, it's interesting. As someone who's dating a British person, 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.439 we always joke about like whether our kids would have 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.040 in a British accent or an American accent, And we 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.240 did a little bit of reading. It turns out they're 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.280 going to have the accent of the kids at school, 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:35.960 but they're not. It doesn't matter. 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.840 Our accents don't matter exactly. Parents don't matter, kidding, But 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.280 for parents or people who are thinking about being parents, 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.520 there are a few things that Choosing points to in 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:48.960 their book that they can do to help kids help themselves. 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:56.400 So there's one study that showed that when researchers modeled 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.760 persistence while playing with toys in front of babies, that 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.040 may the babies more likely to be persistent. 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.600 So basically, the study had researchers working with like fifteen 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.320 month old babies, and the researcher would be holding a 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.560 toy and you know, trying to make it make this 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:11.880 sound and saying things like. 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:13.080 Huh, how do I do this? 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.400 And there would be a big button that you'd think 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.040 would make the music play, but they would hide the buttons, 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.000 so the researcher would eventually press this module that would 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.520 make the song come out. And then they would see 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.800 how long a baby, having watched a researcher persist, would 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.480 then persist in getting a different toy to do something else. 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.119 So it was basically seeing if modeling persistence had an 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:38.439 effect on how long babies tried to do something, and 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:40.679 the answer was they did see a real result, like 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.240 watching a researcher persist did lead babies to try harder. 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.680 The same researcher then went on. Her name is Julia Leonard. 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:48.280 She runs the. 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:52.240 Leonard Learning Lab at Yale. She got very interested in 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:56.280 autonomy and because we know that when parents do intervene 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.880 when like kids are doing a puzzle or something like that, 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.960 it's very deep motivating and kids tend to try less 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.280 hard the next time around when they're presented with a puzzle, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.679 like even a few hours later. So she set up 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.320 this experiment at a children's museum in which four or 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.840 five year olds were in the dressing room of the 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.800 children's museum trying to put on hockey gear, which is 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.680 kind of elaborate, and in some of the dressing rooms 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:23.600 there was a sign that said, did you know that 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.280 putting on clothing can be learning? And in the other 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.119 rooms it just said dress up is fun, you know 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.000 that kind of thing. In the room where there was 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.080 no reminder that getting dressed could be learning, the parents 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.159 jumped in and intervened all the time. And in the 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.520 room where the parents were reminded that there was learning 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.960 to be done and even simple everyday tasks like putting 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.280 on shin guards, they waited a little bit longer. So 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.200 it was both a reinforcement of the idea that parents 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:51.920 jump in way too quickly and also got at the 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.119 idea that maybe if parents appreciated that there is learning 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.280