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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, where we

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Speaker 1: discuss all things mental health, personal development, and all the

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Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information

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Speaker 1: and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls

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Speaker 1: dot com. And while I hope you love listening to

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Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to

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Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental

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Speaker 1: health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me

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Speaker 1: for Sessions TWINNY two of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast.

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Speaker 1: So before we get started today, I do want to

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Speaker 1: send my thoughts and prayers to all of our listeners

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Speaker 1: in the Houston area or listeners who have friends and family, um,

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Speaker 1: who have been impacted by the storm. This definitely has

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Speaker 1: been a significant, UM and very tragic storm, UM, and

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Speaker 1: so I'm definitely thinking about you all, um, and you know,

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Speaker 1: wanting to offer some ways that we can help. So

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Speaker 1: if you will pay attention to the show notes, you

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Speaker 1: can find those that Therapy for Black Girls dot com

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Speaker 1: slash sessions. We need to I have included different Houston

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Speaker 1: agencies where you can donate um money or goods so

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Speaker 1: that we can help those who have been impacted by

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Speaker 1: this storm. So today I want to discuss dealing with

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Speaker 1: their impostor syndrome. And this has been a widely requested

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Speaker 1: topic to be discussed because I think for successful Black

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Speaker 1: women and high achieving Black women, this often comes up,

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Speaker 1: and so I wanted to talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: what it is and some strategies for dealing with it.

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Speaker 1: So before we get started, I think we need to

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Speaker 1: have a definition of what the impost syndrome is. So

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Speaker 1: the term was coined by two American psychologists, doctors Pauline

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Speaker 1: Clance and Suzanne I'ms, and they coined this term in

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Speaker 1: nineteen and they describe it as a feeling of phoniness

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Speaker 1: in people who believe that they are not intelligent, capable,

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Speaker 1: or creative despite evidence of high achievement. While these people

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Speaker 1: are highly motivated to achieve, they also live in fear

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Speaker 1: of being found out or exposed as frauds. So I

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Speaker 1: think for a lot of people, one of the first

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Speaker 1: times where you may have this experience of being an

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Speaker 1: impostor may struggle with imposter syndrome is in grad school. UM,

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Speaker 1: So I don't know that there's any other time in

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Speaker 1: your life where you're probably under as much criticism and

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Speaker 1: scrutiny as when you are in grad school. And so

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of times people begin to question

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Speaker 1: whether they really deserve to be there. Um, you may

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Speaker 1: have feelings of Okay, at any moment, somebody's going to

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Speaker 1: find out that I don't deserve to be here. I

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Speaker 1: got in here by chance despite all evidence that that

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Speaker 1: is not the case. So I do think that this

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Speaker 1: is something that a lot of people struggle with, and

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Speaker 1: UM wanted to give you some strategies to help deal

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Speaker 1: with that. So in preparing for today's episode, I did

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Speaker 1: some more research about the imposter syndrome and found something

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Speaker 1: that I was not aware of. So more research, of

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Speaker 1: course has been done in this field, and they have

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Speaker 1: now found five different types of impostor syndrome. So I

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Speaker 1: want to read these um subtypes to you. This is

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Speaker 1: coming from an article from Melody Wilding for a Fast

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Speaker 1: Company and the article is based on the five different

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Speaker 1: subtypes that were found by Valerie Young. And she has

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Speaker 1: a book called The Secret Thoughts of Successful Women. Why

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Speaker 1: capable people suffer from the imposter syndrome and how to

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Speaker 1: thrive in spite of it, so of course all of

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Speaker 1: this information will be included in the show notes. So

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Speaker 1: the five different subtypes of the imposter syndrome are the perfectionist,

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Speaker 1: the superwoman, the natural genius, the rugged individualist, and the expert.

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Speaker 1: So the first type is the perfectionist. Perfectionism and imposter

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Speaker 1: syndrome often go hand in hand. Think about it. Perfectionists

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Speaker 1: that excessively hide goals for themselves and when they fail

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Speaker 1: to reach a goal they experience made yourself down and

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Speaker 1: worry about measuring up, whether they realize it or not.

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Speaker 1: This group can also be control freaks, feeling like if

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Speaker 1: they want something done right, they have to do it themselves.

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Speaker 1: So some questions to ask yourself if you're not sure

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Speaker 1: that this subtype is you. Have you ever been accused

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Speaker 1: of being a micromanager? Do you have great difficulty delegating

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Speaker 1: even when you're able to do so. Do you feel

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Speaker 1: frustrated and disappointed in the results when you miss the

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Speaker 1: insanely high mark on something? Do you accuse yourself of

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Speaker 1: not being cut out for your job and ruminate on

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Speaker 1: it for days? Do you feel like your work must

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Speaker 1: be one percent perfect of the time. The second subtype

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Speaker 1: is a superwoman. Since people who experienced this phenomenon are

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Speaker 1: convinced their phonies among real deal colleagues, they often push

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Speaker 1: themselves to work harder and harder to measure up. But

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Speaker 1: this is just a false cover up for their insecurities,

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Speaker 1: and the work overload may harm not only their own

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Speaker 1: mental health, but also their relationships with others. Does this

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Speaker 1: apply to you? Here are some questions. Do you stay

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Speaker 1: later at the office then the rest of your team,

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Speaker 1: even past the point that you've completed the day's necessary work.

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Speaker 1: Do you get stressed when you're not working and find

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Speaker 1: downtime completely wasteful? Have you let your hobbies and passions

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Speaker 1: fall by the wayside sacrifice to work. Do you feel

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Speaker 1: like you haven't truly earned your title despite numerous degrees

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Speaker 1: and achievements, so you feel pressed to work harder and

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Speaker 1: longer than those around you to prove your worth. The

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Speaker 1: third sub type the natural genius. People who struggle with

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Speaker 1: this who are also natural geniuses judge success based on

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Speaker 1: their abilities as opposed to their efforts. In other words,

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Speaker 1: if they have to work hard at something they assume

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Speaker 1: they must be bad at it. These types of impostors

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Speaker 1: set their internal bar and possibly high, just like perfectionists,

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Speaker 1: but natural genius types don't just judge themselves based on

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Speaker 1: ridiculous expectations. They also judge themselves based on getting things

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Speaker 1: right on the first try. When they're not able to

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Speaker 1: do something quickly or fluently, their alarm sounds. Here are

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Speaker 1: some questions to see if this subtype applies to you.

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Speaker 1: Are you used to excelling without much effort. Do you

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Speaker 1: have a track record of getting straight a's or gold

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Speaker 1: stars and everything you do. Were you told frequently as

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Speaker 1: a child that you were the smart one in your

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Speaker 1: family or peer group. Do you dislike the idea of

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Speaker 1: having a mentor because you can handle things on your

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Speaker 1: own when you're faced with a setback. Does your confidence

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Speaker 1: tumble because not performing well provokes a feeling of shame.

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Speaker 1: Do you often avoid challenges because it's so uncomfortable to

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Speaker 1: try something you're not great at. The fourth subtype is

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Speaker 1: the rugged individual list sufferers who feel as though asking

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Speaker 1: for help reveals their phoniness or what Young calls rugged individualists.

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Speaker 1: It's okay to be independent, but not to the extent

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Speaker 1: that you refuse assistance so that you can prove your worth.

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Speaker 1: Questions to ask to see if this subtype applies to you.

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Speaker 1: Do you firmly feel that you need to accomplish things

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Speaker 1: or your own I don't need anyone's help. Does that

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Speaker 1: sound like you? Do you frame requests in terms of

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Speaker 1: requirements of the project rather than your needs as a person?

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Speaker 1: And the fifth subtype is the expert. People who fall

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Speaker 1: into this competence type may feel like they somehow trick

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Speaker 1: their employer into hiring them. They deeply fear being exposed

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Speaker 1: as inexperienced or un knowledgeable. Some questions to ask to

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Speaker 1: see if this subtype applies to you. Do you shy

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Speaker 1: away from applying to job postings unless you meet every

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Speaker 1: single educational requirement? Are you constantly seeking out trainings or

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Speaker 1: certifications because you think you need to improve your skills

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Speaker 1: in order to succeed even if you've been in your

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Speaker 1: role for some time. Can you relate to feeling like

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Speaker 1: you still don't know enough? So these are the five

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Speaker 1: different subtypes, and I'm guessing that you probably heard some

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Speaker 1: some scenarios or situations that apply to yourself. So I

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Speaker 1: think that this is a great article, and I do

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Speaker 1: want you to give it a read. She also offers

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Speaker 1: different strategies to deal with each subtype UM, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to get into some more general strategies to deal

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Speaker 1: with the imposter syndrome now. So I have five different

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Speaker 1: strategies that you may want to consider UM to help

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Speaker 1: deal with the imposter syndrome. So the first one, UM

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Speaker 1: is to make yourself UH file on your phone or

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Speaker 1: in your inbox or on your hard drive or your

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Speaker 1: Google drive UM where you can collect all of the

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Speaker 1: compliments and things that you get UM. So if you

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Speaker 1: get a nice email or positive work evaluation, great feedback

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Speaker 1: from a presentation, or if somebody gives you a fabulous

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Speaker 1: comment on your I G post, UM, I want you

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Speaker 1: to save all of those things in this particular file

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Speaker 1: so that you can look back over them when you're

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Speaker 1: having a doubtful day. So I have a file on

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Speaker 1: my Google drive. The name of my file is called

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Speaker 1: you did that and and ever y'all send me sweet

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Speaker 1: emails about what you're learning from the podcast, or when

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Speaker 1: clients share how how I've helped them, then I save

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Speaker 1: it in this file. So if I'm having a tough day,

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Speaker 1: or feeling like, Okay, I don't really know what I'm doing. UM,

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Speaker 1: then I can look back through these text messages and

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Speaker 1: emails to you know, kind of remind myself to keep

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Speaker 1: going and that what I'm doing makes an impact. So

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Speaker 1: what I want you to do is to tweet me

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Speaker 1: and let me know what the name of your filet is.

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Speaker 1: So if you have one, then let me know. And

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Speaker 1: if you don't have one, then I want you to

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Speaker 1: create it and then tweet me and let me know

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Speaker 1: what your file name is. UM. Make sure to use

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Speaker 1: the Twitter address therapy for the number four be Girls,

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Speaker 1: or if you're not on Twitter, UM, you can tag

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Speaker 1: me on Instagram and Therapy for Black Girls or on

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Speaker 1: Facebook Therapy for Black Girls. So related to this number

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Speaker 1: two is that I want you to learn how to

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Speaker 1: actually accept a compliment. So off I times, without even

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Speaker 1: thinking about it, we minimize our hard work and our

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Speaker 1: talent without really even thinking. Someone tells you that your

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Speaker 1: outfit is beautiful and you say, oh girl, I just

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Speaker 1: threw this together, or someone tells you you killed that

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Speaker 1: presentation and you say, I'm just glad it's over. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I want you to try saying something like thank you.

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Speaker 1: For noticing I really like the cut of the skirt,

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Speaker 1: or thank you for your feedback about the presentation. I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate your support. So somewhere along the line, we

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Speaker 1: have learned that self deprecation UM and kind of playing

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Speaker 1: small were necessary to kind of seem humble and not

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Speaker 1: be boathful. But I don't know that that really serves us,

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Speaker 1: and I want us to try leaving some of that behind.

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Speaker 1: So I'm definitely not saying kind of run all over

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Speaker 1: and talk about how great you are into your own

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Speaker 1: horn in situations where it would not be appropriate. But

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Speaker 1: there's no need to play yourself small or to hide

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Speaker 1: your talents and gifts um to try to make someone

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Speaker 1: else comfortable. We don't need that. We need you to

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Speaker 1: kind of be your full self. So the third strategy

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Speaker 1: is to cultivate strong relationships with mentors or other senior

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Speaker 1: figures in your field. Sometimes others can see the greatness

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Speaker 1: in us before we do. Even if what your mentor

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Speaker 1: is saying doesn't match up with your personal reality of yourself,

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Speaker 1: you should believe that someone who really cares about you

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Speaker 1: is not just saying something to make you feel good.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes people who are in our field who have

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Speaker 1: kind of walked the past that we've walked can really

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Speaker 1: see like some of the natural talent and skill that

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Speaker 1: we have in our fields and our chosen areas before

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Speaker 1: we can see those things. And so I think if

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Speaker 1: you develop a strong relationship with these people, and you

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Speaker 1: developed a foundation of trust and honesty, you can believe

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Speaker 1: it when these people tell you that you're doing a

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Speaker 1: great job, that you know that you're that you belo

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Speaker 1: long in this place, and so I think sometimes that

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Speaker 1: can help you to kind of um gain the confidence

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Speaker 1: to match up with the skill that probably is already there.

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Speaker 1: One important point to notice about this is that a

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Speaker 1: real mentor is typically invested in both you and the

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Speaker 1: longevity of whatever the field is that you guys are in,

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Speaker 1: and so they want to see you succeed, but they

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Speaker 1: also want to see the field move forward. Um So

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, mentors and seniors in our

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Speaker 1: fields can be gatekeepers. And so if this person is

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Speaker 1: telling you that you're doing a good job and they

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Speaker 1: think you should keep going, then they probably are accurate

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Speaker 1: and you should probably believe them even if what you

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Speaker 1: even if what they believe is not something that you're

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Speaker 1: seeing in yourself right now. The fourth strategy is I

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Speaker 1: want you to get comfortable with good enough. And I

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Speaker 1: think this is especially true for sisters who are starting

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Speaker 1: get to grad school by being less than the stellar um,

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Speaker 1: so you're usually very successful student, probably highly accomplished. So

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Speaker 1: the idea that all of your ideas may not be

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Speaker 1: UM great might come as a shocker UM and sometimes

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Speaker 1: that will happen in grad school because you're learning. So

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Speaker 1: I want you to learn to take difficult feedback and

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Speaker 1: allow it to move you and UM allow you to

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Speaker 1: kind of move forward, but not allow you to wallow

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Speaker 1: in self doubt. So allow it to kind of propel

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Speaker 1: you forward and learn things and stretch and grow and

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Speaker 1: challenge yourself in ways that you need to, but don't

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Speaker 1: allow it to paralyze you so that you're not doing anything.

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Speaker 1: So while I want you to get comfortable with good enough,

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Speaker 1: the fifth strategy is that I do not want you

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Speaker 1: to answer to anything which is not your name. So

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Speaker 1: I say this to say that feedback about your work

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Speaker 1: and how you could do some things better is great,

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Speaker 1: but comments about your earth and deserving to be in

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Speaker 1: a particular place or space or not. Yes, your writing

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Speaker 1: may not be as strong as it will be in

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Speaker 1: a year. And no, you probably aren't ready to be

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Speaker 1: seen as a leader in your field. But you do

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Speaker 1: deserve to be where you are in this exact moment.

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Speaker 1: You absolutely do. So I want you to be open

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Speaker 1: to the feedback and allow yourself to grow in whatever

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Speaker 1: field you're going into or whatever career path you've chosen

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Speaker 1: for yourself. But do not allow people's negativity and criticism

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Speaker 1: to kind of evade your space so much so that

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Speaker 1: you continue or start to question yourself and doubt yourself. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I would love to hear if you have any

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Speaker 1: other tips that you would add to this list, other

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Speaker 1: strategies that maybe you try that have helped you to

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Speaker 1: deal with the imposter syndrome. Make sure you also tag

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Speaker 1: those on social media using the hashtag TBG in session

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Speaker 1: so that we can kind of follow this conversation and

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Speaker 1: the other women can get those tips and share with

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Speaker 1: each other as well. So we also have an on

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Speaker 1: the porch question today. So this letter says I've been

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Speaker 1: struggling with how to rebuild a relationship with my older sister.

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Speaker 1: We've been estranged and haven't spoken in five years. I

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Speaker 1: had to lovingly let her go for a while because

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Speaker 1: I believe the relationship became too toxic and filled with drama.

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Speaker 1: I tried to have a few courageous conversations with her

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Speaker 1: on several occasions before I had to make the tough

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Speaker 1: choice to break from her. She struggles with mental illness

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Speaker 1: and I'm at a loss as to how to rebuild

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Speaker 1: with her. We had some terrible things happened in our relationship,

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Speaker 1: and I don't trust her and she doesn't trust me.

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Speaker 1: Before our physical fight slash betrayal happened, I would pretend

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Speaker 1: everything was okay, even though I wasn't happy with it.

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Speaker 1: I was always trying to protect her, which was a

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Speaker 1: bad idea, and it blew up in my past. For

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Speaker 1: ten years, I felt like I was begging my sister

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Speaker 1: to have a relationship with me, and five years ago

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Speaker 1: I hit a wall and decided to take care of me.

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Speaker 1: I believe the relationship was codependent, toxic, confusing, and there

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Speaker 1: was really no reciprocity and it really broke me and

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Speaker 1: I gave up. We have no relationship presently. She never

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Speaker 1: showed up for me, and that sucks. Let's be clear,

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Speaker 1: I'm not perfect, but I've always made an effort to

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Speaker 1: invest the time, energy, and have sacrificed a lot helping

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Speaker 1: her through life's up and sounds, suicide attempts, abusive boyfriends.

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Speaker 1: I'm honestly at a loss help. So, first of all,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for writing in UM, and I

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Speaker 1: do hope that I can give you some feedback that

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Speaker 1: may be helpful to you, and to also give some

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Speaker 1: feedback to other people who may be struggling with similar situations.

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Speaker 1: So your letter really reminded me a lot of the

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Speaker 1: conversation I had with Dr Pamela Thompson in the Surviving

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Speaker 1: Mama episode, because I think in a lot of ways, UM,

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Speaker 1: familial relationships that are toxic are very difficult to deal with,

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Speaker 1: and like she mentioned in that episode and in her book, UM,

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Speaker 1: sometimes we just have to let those relationships go. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like that's where you got in this relationship with

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Speaker 1: your sister, and so I'm not quite sure what you're

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Speaker 1: asking for help related to UM. I'm not sure if

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Speaker 1: you are thinking of kind of trying to reconnect with

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Speaker 1: your sister or UM. What it almost really feels like

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Speaker 1: to me is that you are asking for permission to

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Speaker 1: continue on this path that you've chosen for yourself in

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Speaker 1: terms of making your um safety and health and wellness

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Speaker 1: and your peace of mind a priority. And I would

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Speaker 1: absolutely say you have that permission. UM, you don't have

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Speaker 1: to ask anybody else for that permission, because it sounds

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Speaker 1: like you made a good decision for yourself. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like you tried a lot of different things, UM that

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Speaker 1: didn't work, and so you know, I think it may

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Speaker 1: be helpful to always be open to the possibility of

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Speaker 1: having a reconnection with your sister. If that's something that

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Speaker 1: she takes the steps forward to do, I would leave

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Speaker 1: it on her to UM kind of show you if

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Speaker 1: things have changed. It sounds like you've taken a lot

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Speaker 1: of initiative in the past, so I don't know that

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Speaker 1: I would encourage you to try to do that again,

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Speaker 1: but I think you could be open to it if

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Speaker 1: the opportunity presented itself and she came to you, UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe apologizing and explaining to you how she

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Speaker 1: felt like the relationship could be different. But you mentioned

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Speaker 1: a lot of things in this letter, UM, you know

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Speaker 1: that do point to the relationship being toxic. So you

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Speaker 1: talked about a physical fight, you talked about betrayal, you

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Speaker 1: talked about not trusting her and her not trusting you.

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Speaker 1: So with all of those things that have happened, I

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Speaker 1: do think you made the best decision for yourself. And

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Speaker 1: unless something drastically changes and she comes to you to

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Speaker 1: kind of say what those changes are and how they

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Speaker 1: can continue moving forward, I think that you probably are

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Speaker 1: doing the right thing for yourself by continuing to have

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Speaker 1: this separation with your sister. And you know, honestly, sometimes

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Speaker 1: we just have to love people from a distance. UM.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't mean that you have to wish your

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Speaker 1: sister any ill will, which it doesn't sound like you are,

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Speaker 1: but it does mean that sometimes you have to take

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Speaker 1: a step back so that you can do what you

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Speaker 1: need to do for yourself. So I do hope this helps. UM.

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Speaker 1: If you have any questions that you would like to

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Speaker 1: have some feedback about, please make sure to send me

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Speaker 1: an email. You can send that to podcast us at

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com. And as always, if

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Speaker 1: you are looking for a therapist in your area, please

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Speaker 1: make sure to check out the directory on the website.

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Speaker 1: You can find that at Therapy for Black Girls dot

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Speaker 1: com backslash directory, and I'd also like to ask you

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Speaker 1: to share the podcast with a new friend who hasn't

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Speaker 1: heard it before. Um I always like to see what

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Speaker 1: you are learning and the insights that you're gathering from

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Speaker 1: the episodes, so make sure to share this with a

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Speaker 1: friend who hasn't heard the podcast yet. If you're interested

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Speaker 1: in joining our Facebook community to talk about the episodes

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Speaker 1: or other mental health and wellness kinds of topics, you

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Speaker 1: can join the Facebook community. You can find that at

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com backslash tribe that's t

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Speaker 1: R I b E. And I'd also like to encourage

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Speaker 1: you to pick up the September issue of the Old

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Speaker 1: Magazine Oprah's Magazine, because I am featured in a piece

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Speaker 1: talking about changing the face of therapy. So I'm very

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Speaker 1: excited to kind of v on the national stage in

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Speaker 1: that way and featured in Old Magazine, and it definitely

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Speaker 1: feels like a huge accomplishment. And I'm just excited to

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Speaker 1: be able to talk about Therapy for Black Girls and

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Speaker 1: the impact that I'm hoping to make in the community

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Speaker 1: and encouraging black women to continue to make their mental

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Speaker 1: health priority. So make sure to pick up your copy

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Speaker 1: if you see it on the newsstands. As always, you

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Speaker 1: can find me over on social media at Therapy for

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Speaker 1: the Number four b Girls on Twitter and on Instagram

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Speaker 1: and Facebook. You can find me at Therapy for Black Girls.

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Speaker 1: I'm definitely looking forward to continue in this conversation with

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Speaker 1: you all real soon. Take good care all, actor actor

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Speaker 1: p Oftortor