1
00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:06,160
Speaker 1: Disclaimer drug episode. Hey, everybody, we recorded an episode on

2
00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,160
Speaker 1: LSD and we just wanted to throw it out there

3
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,920
Speaker 1: that we talked about LSD and other drugs in a

4
00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,200
Speaker 1: very frank, open, uh, non judgmental way. So parents, you

5
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,840
Speaker 1: may not want your little kiddies to listen to this one.

6
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,680
Speaker 1: It's up to you. I don't know what kind of

7
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:25,640
Speaker 1: household you run, but that's our disclaimer. Welcome to Stuff

8
00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:34,480
Speaker 1: you Should Know from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey,

9
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,159
Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W.

10
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,960
Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant and Jerry and this is Stuff you Should

11
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 1: Know the podcast. It's right, Josh. Uh. I'm gonna wish

12
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,960
Speaker 1: you two things. Happy anniversary, Yes, happy anniversary because the

13
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 1: day that we're recording, it was eight years ago this

14
00:00:54,720 --> 00:01:00,160
Speaker 1: week that we released Well not we you we. I

15
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,120
Speaker 1: wasn't even there yet, you were here in spirit. I

16
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Yeah, it's when stuff you should know. I I

17
00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 1: was born. Yeah, two mid April, eight years ago. We

18
00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: got forty two years ago. And happy bicycle Day. Did

19
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:14,880
Speaker 1: you know that it was bicycle day when he picked

20
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:20,320
Speaker 1: us out? No? Really really, that's actually that's amazing, isn't it. Yeah,

21
00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 1: it's weird. Yeah. It was the thing that prompted it

22
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,280
Speaker 1: was that recent study about LSD and I was like, wow, yeah,

23
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,760
Speaker 1: we should totally do LSD. We've never done it. And

24
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,920
Speaker 1: it was I think yesterday that I realized today is

25
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,319
Speaker 1: bicycle Day. And for those of you who aren't in

26
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,720
Speaker 1: the know, bicycle days not about riding bicycles to work. No,

27
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:41,880
Speaker 1: it's not. As a matter of fact, somebody on Twitter

28
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,479
Speaker 1: said every day's bicycle Day. To me, I'm like, I

29
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:50,600
Speaker 1: bet you don't. So. Bicycle Day commemorates the day when

30
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,000
Speaker 1: Um Albert Hoffman, the discoverer or creator I guess, depending

31
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 1: on how you look at it of LSD, UM experimented

32
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,720
Speaker 1: on himself and part of that included him riding his

33
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 1: bike back home from work while he was Yeah, and

34
00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,720
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that here in a minute. But bicycle

35
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 1: Day itself was started supposedly by Professor Thomas Roberts of

36
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:20,200
Speaker 1: Northern Illinois University, Go Huskies, in commemoration of that what

37
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,000
Speaker 1: some people say it was a great day in history.

38
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 1: It certainly was the day that changed history. You really

39
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,119
Speaker 1: can't argue that. No, and Um, if you want to

40
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,960
Speaker 1: just hear all things LSD and stuff you should know

41
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,040
Speaker 1: We and did two other shows two thousand eight, did

42
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,800
Speaker 1: the CIA test LSD on Unsuspecting Americans? Good? The answer

43
00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,600
Speaker 1: is yes, mind opening and October. Can you treat mental

44
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:49,000
Speaker 1: illness with psychedelics? And now in typical stuff you should

45
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,359
Speaker 1: know backward form, we're gonna do LSD. Yeah, we like

46
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 1: to nibble around that. Do l s D. You know

47
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,720
Speaker 1: that'd be weird. Oh, we weren't supposed to. Oh, we

48
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,640
Speaker 1: better get through this quick. We got about thirty minutes. Oh.

49
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,240
Speaker 1: We should also point out at the end of this

50
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,160
Speaker 1: episode we have John hodgment On is in a very

51
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 1: special listener male audio segment where he rebuts our nostalgia episode.

52
00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,200
Speaker 1: Although it seems like we agreed more than we didn't,

53
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,400
Speaker 1: he didn't end up forbutting anything. Yeah. Uh, and that's

54
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 1: we worked out the the the misunderstanding, how about that? Yeah,

55
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 1: and we like all times that you sit down with

56
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,359
Speaker 1: hodgement We talked for thirty minutes about one small thing.

57
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,440
Speaker 1: That's why this episode is super long, because this is

58
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,800
Speaker 1: gonna be long too. It is so it's super size

59
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,480
Speaker 1: robuts we should sell like eight more extra ads all

60
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,160
Speaker 1: but just kidding. Yeah, like Tommy Chong would probably one

61
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 1: in on this one. He's got some businesses done. Yeah,

62
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,440
Speaker 1: I shouldn't joke because sales will be like knocking on

63
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,440
Speaker 1: the door. All right, Chuck really really said, Chuck, we're

64
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 1: talking about l s D today, um and l s

65
00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:00,000
Speaker 1: D again. That that bicycle day, that first day seven

66
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 1: three years ago. I think it really did change the

67
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 1: world because there are very few substances that have ever

68
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,640
Speaker 1: been created by man that had a more sweeping, profound

69
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,560
Speaker 1: effect than LSD. Like you, kind of a lot of

70
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,400
Speaker 1: people associate LSD with hippies, they're grateful dead maybe ravers,

71
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,520
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. But if you really start to

72
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,520
Speaker 1: kind of poke around popular culture here in the West,

73
00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,000
Speaker 1: you start to see it turn up everywhere. Like every

74
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 1: American president has taken LSD. Right, Well, it's part of

75
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,880
Speaker 1: the oath of office, like the Bible is laced with

76
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,279
Speaker 1: LST put their hand on their hand on it. Actually,

77
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,599
Speaker 1: let's debunk that myth right now. Apparently LSD is non

78
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,160
Speaker 1: absorbment through the skin. Yeah, which means that those says, well,

79
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,160
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of rumors, but the one with Jimi

80
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 1: Hendrix would put LSD in his sweatband. He may have

81
00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,479
Speaker 1: wouldn't have done anything, although it could have trickled down

82
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,800
Speaker 1: into his mouth maybe. Yeah. Uh, here's some other popular

83
00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,160
Speaker 1: LSD myths. I don't think there have been any They're

84
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,920
Speaker 1: drugs that have spawned maybe these days. But I'm not

85
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,040
Speaker 1: hip to all these new drugs, man, and like it's

86
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,400
Speaker 1: impossible to be. I was doing research for this and

87
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 1: I ran across, like all the new drugs that are

88
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,680
Speaker 1: available today. It's incredible. There's just like an avalanche of new, new,

89
00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:23,040
Speaker 1: virtually untested drugs that's being They're they're going from synthesis

90
00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,640
Speaker 1: to human trials by way of customer like people are

91
00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,000
Speaker 1: taking these things and they're essentially like guinea pigs for

92
00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 1: these things. Still, it is extremely dangerous. Yeah, Molly and

93
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 1: Billy and Jim's way beyond that, Jimmy, Jimmy's old news,

94
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,760
Speaker 1: Jimmy's oldness. Uh. Here just a few quickie uh highlights. Um,

95
00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:44,719
Speaker 1: the guy that thought he was an orange so he

96
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,520
Speaker 1: like peeled his skin off. Clearly LSD did that. Not true? Uh,

97
00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,040
Speaker 1: college kids who stared at the sun until they were blind.

98
00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,600
Speaker 1: Clearly LSD is responsible for those children licking stick tattoos

99
00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,800
Speaker 1: given out to children at Halloween. Uh, seven hits will

100
00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,640
Speaker 1: make you legally insane, right, you can use that as

101
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,320
Speaker 1: a defense in court. Diane link Letter jumped from a

102
00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,719
Speaker 1: window because she thought she could fly, So that was

103
00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,280
Speaker 1: a big one that kind of changed public opinion. She

104
00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,400
Speaker 1: jumped from a window, she definitely did, but she was

105
00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 1: also suicidal and she had taken LSD before. What made

106
00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,719
Speaker 1: it such a huge case was that, um, she was

107
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,599
Speaker 1: Art link Letter's daughter art link Letter at the time.

108
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,640
Speaker 1: This is I think the early seventies. When his daughter

109
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,359
Speaker 1: committed suicide, Um, he was already a bit of a

110
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,760
Speaker 1: He was like the Bill Cosby of the age, which

111
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,040
Speaker 1: is not surprising, and the moral crusader and kind of

112
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,159
Speaker 1: um social scold of everybody, and how things are just

113
00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,039
Speaker 1: not like they used to be in the good old days,

114
00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,960
Speaker 1: are so much better and everybody's just letting their kids

115
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,599
Speaker 1: get away with so much and pull up your pants

116
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,680
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff. He was a bit like

117
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,840
Speaker 1: that already. And then his his daughter committed suicide, and um,

118
00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:04,000
Speaker 1: he was understandably uh devastated by that, and he turned

119
00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: his ire towards drugs because she had taken LSD before.

120
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,560
Speaker 1: But there's no evidence that she was on on LSD

121
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,160
Speaker 1: at the time, she was already suicidal. But again, art

122
00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,679
Speaker 1: link letter is going to all of the kids parents

123
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,040
Speaker 1: and saying like, you can't let your don't let this

124
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,440
Speaker 1: happen to your children too. Scared America's parents and really

125
00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,600
Speaker 1: kind of sealed the deal of public opinion against LST

126
00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah. Uh, and how about one more

127
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,200
Speaker 1: for you. Uh. Pittsburgh Pirates pitcher doc Ellis thoes a

128
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 1: no hitter on acid. That's true, that's true. Well, I

129
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 1: know we've covered it. Dufus Okay, oh you're putting one

130
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 1: into yeah. Oh sorry, there's a great documentary about it,

131
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 1: and um, true is the only person's word we have

132
00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,680
Speaker 1: to go on. Was doc Ellis, Well, his girlfriend also,

133
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,520
Speaker 1: I don't want to say testify, but she she backed

134
00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,080
Speaker 1: it up. She was like, yeah, we took acid and

135
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,280
Speaker 1: into it. Though, and apparently the story changed a bit

136
00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 1: over the years, and he also said other things that

137
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,400
Speaker 1: didn't quite match up. So there's a little speculation that

138
00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,520
Speaker 1: he might have Gussie did it up a little bit. Oh,

139
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,720
Speaker 1: like the ball was telling him what pitch to throw,

140
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 1: and maybe when he took the acid, so supposedly took

141
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,080
Speaker 1: it at noon and he was pitching it like seven.

142
00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 1: So I mean he still would have been on acid,

143
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 1: he just wouldn't have been speaking on acid or something. Yeah,

144
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,960
Speaker 1: but it's a great documentary. You should check it out. Yeah,

145
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 1: it's good. Okay, you threw me off at that. When

146
00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,520
Speaker 1: you got me I was like, Chuck, wait, we did

147
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 1: an internet round up on that. Yeah, that's right. So

148
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,520
Speaker 1: there was another thing, Chuck, that I remember growing up

149
00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,679
Speaker 1: with is that acid. If you took acid, it would

150
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,839
Speaker 1: mess up your chromosome so that when you had offspring kid,

151
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,479
Speaker 1: they would be all kinds of messed up, disfigured, deformed,

152
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:54,200
Speaker 1: would have severe developmental defects, all sorts of terrible stuff.

153
00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:55,800
Speaker 1: That's what we call it back in the early eighties.

154
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,720
Speaker 1: By the way, um, it could put holes in your brain. Yeah,

155
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,640
Speaker 1: that's another one too that everybody ringing around believing. And

156
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,880
Speaker 1: one of the reasons everyone ran around believing all of

157
00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,559
Speaker 1: these weird myths. By the way, No, LSD doesn't affect

158
00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,600
Speaker 1: your chromosomes. That actually is metabolized. It out of your

159
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 1: system faster than just about any other drug on the planet.

160
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 1: Pee it up very quickly. Your liver starts breaking it

161
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,920
Speaker 1: down immediately. Um, So it certainly doesn't affect your chromosomes

162
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,200
Speaker 1: and it doesn't put holes in your brain. But the

163
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 1: reason why these myths are around and the reason why

164
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 1: people believe them is because the authorities are the ones

165
00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,640
Speaker 1: who either made up these myths or latched onto them

166
00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,480
Speaker 1: and basically amplified them through these kind of public service

167
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,840
Speaker 1: announcements and through the media. And so a lot of

168
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,560
Speaker 1: people walked around believing this. And and on the one hand,

169
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,720
Speaker 1: you can say, well, that's fine, it kept some kids

170
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,680
Speaker 1: maybe off of heroin or something. Lying to kids is

171
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,560
Speaker 1: fine when it comes to drugs. You can make that case, right,

172
00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,760
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you can also point to

173
00:09:55,160 --> 00:10:00,440
Speaker 1: the real chilling effect that the LSD hysteria had on

174
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 1: um understanding consciousness, potentially treating mental illness, which were just

175
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,840
Speaker 1: now starting to realize, like, yeah, it has that a

176
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 1: lot of potential for that treating alcoholism. Um, there's a

177
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: lot of people whose lives could have been helped had

178
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 1: at the very least uh Science been allowed to continue

179
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,680
Speaker 1: his inquiry into LSD. But the the the fear of

180
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:29,160
Speaker 1: LSD was so widespread and so profound that even science

181
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,440
Speaker 1: was clamped down. Yeah, the CIA was like only week

182
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,880
Speaker 1: and good people LSD, not you scientists in controlled settings.

183
00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,480
Speaker 1: There's this one guy. I don't know where the lawsuit

184
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,839
Speaker 1: is now, but he uh. I don't think we covered

185
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,480
Speaker 1: it on our show about the CIA, but the family

186
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,040
Speaker 1: of a guy that supposedly jumped from a window after

187
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,840
Speaker 1: being dost Yeah, but his family is suing the CIA,

188
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 1: saying now he was beaten up and shoved out the

189
00:10:54,760 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 1: window because he had information. I think he was actually

190
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,600
Speaker 1: does though, and he was losing his stuff. I don't

191
00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,200
Speaker 1: know he was dosed, but they're there. Their contention, the

192
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,440
Speaker 1: families and he was thrown out is that he was murdered.

193
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,800
Speaker 1: I saw that too. Yeah, yeah, like the Frank Olsen

194
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,840
Speaker 1: project dot org. Maybe that's what the website is. And

195
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,720
Speaker 1: we definitely covered that the CIA thing because he definitely

196
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 1: he was around at the time that happened at that time,

197
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,400
Speaker 1: because that was the time when like, if you went

198
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,320
Speaker 1: to a party with CIA, they we were all just

199
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 1: dozing one another for fun. If you went to a

200
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:32,240
Speaker 1: San Francisco CIA party, you're a hardcore at that you'ren

201
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,600
Speaker 1: me drinking acid unwinningly, all right, So we should, uh,

202
00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,240
Speaker 1: even though we've covered it before, the story is so wonderful.

203
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,120
Speaker 1: We should go over the creation of LSD by Albert

204
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,600
Speaker 1: Hoffman again. So I think, please begin. You didn't want

205
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,520
Speaker 1: to skip this, did you know? I was? I was.

206
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,440
Speaker 1: I think we should put in like a little accompanying music, said, yeah,

207
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:58,520
Speaker 1: like some Jefferson airplane maybe. So. Um a Swiss chemist.

208
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,920
Speaker 1: His name was Albert Hoffman. We said a few times.

209
00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,760
Speaker 1: He was working at a lab called Sandoz. Uh. They

210
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,000
Speaker 1: were a farmer company and now they're they're still around,

211
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,960
Speaker 1: but there's a subsidy or I can't remember who. They're

212
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,560
Speaker 1: not making drugs anymore, okay. Uh. So he was working

213
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,240
Speaker 1: on a project involving something called ergot. It's a fungus

214
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,680
Speaker 1: that grows on rye and it's been blamed uh, notably

215
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,559
Speaker 1: this woman named Linda l Oh, I know what you're

216
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,960
Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, she put forth a theory that the

217
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,679
Speaker 1: Salem witch trials were kicked off by a round of

218
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,800
Speaker 1: ergot poisoning, and she has a lot of good evidence. Um, oh,

219
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,160
Speaker 1: we'll go over it all. It's it's cool to look

220
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,080
Speaker 1: up though, And a lot of people came out and like,

221
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,200
Speaker 1: you know what, I bet she's right. So you're gonna

222
00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,520
Speaker 1: talk about the Hoffman. Yeah, so he was working with ergot,

223
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,880
Speaker 1: which grows on rye and UM did a lot of

224
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,720
Speaker 1: poisoning over the years, notably in the Middle Ages. Even

225
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,040
Speaker 1: though they used it medicinally, midwives used it to help

226
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 1: speed up labor until they decided in the nineteenth century

227
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,240
Speaker 1: that's pretty dangerous, actually, maybe we should just not poison

228
00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,200
Speaker 1: these pregnant women with ergot. Well they were they were

229
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,240
Speaker 1: not just giving them ergot to poison them for fun.

230
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 1: Apparently it um contracts muscles, right, so it would speed

231
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,800
Speaker 1: up labor, right exactly. UM. And they figured out that

232
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 1: they would actually prove it would slow bleeding, I think

233
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,440
Speaker 1: by dilating blood vessels maybe, so they would give it

234
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 1: to a woman after labor. Still, but they stopped giving

235
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,440
Speaker 1: it to them like to to create, to put a

236
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:36,200
Speaker 1: woman into labor. But it was it was remarkable enough

237
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,400
Speaker 1: that even after this level of medicine UM went away,

238
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 1: scientists were still figuring out there, like, there's something with ergot.

239
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 1: We've got to be able to do something with it.

240
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,679
Speaker 1: It's just too potent, you know, so uh in the

241
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,680
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, this was the nineteen thirties. It's just so crazy.

242
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,800
Speaker 1: To think about when you see pictures of the nineteen thirties. Yeah,

243
00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,240
Speaker 1: they're like wires hanging everywhere the new electric lamp, like

244
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,520
Speaker 1: experimenting with LSD. But it happened um at the Rockefeller

245
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 1: Institute in New York City. They isolated lisergic acid from

246
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,880
Speaker 1: ergot and um, this is where Hoffman kind of started

247
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 1: his work, resulting in N and the derivative. The number

248
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,960
Speaker 1: twenty five is and he did twenty four previous. He

249
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:27,600
Speaker 1: finally landed on LSD, and uh that was kind of it. Yeah.

250
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,320
Speaker 1: And LSD we should say, stands for lysergic acid diethyl minde.

251
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:36,160
Speaker 1: And uh, basically he started with this lisergic acid um

252
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 1: and just basically tinkered around with it until he, like

253
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,200
Speaker 1: you said, arrived at LSD. And again, he wasn't looking

254
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,400
Speaker 1: for the most potent psychedelic known to humankind. Now he's

255
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,400
Speaker 1: looking for medicine exactly. He was looking for I think

256
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:56,320
Speaker 1: a respiratory um um stimulator something like that made me asthma. So, yeah,

257
00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:01,720
Speaker 1: give these kids some LSD. Twenty five it up and uh,

258
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 1: he the first time he messed around with it, he

259
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,960
Speaker 1: sent it off to the pharmacologists to look, because he

260
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 1: was a chemist at Sandos, and chemists at Sandos they

261
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,360
Speaker 1: figure out processes to extract stuff, to make new compounds,

262
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,480
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. But that's that's the sum of

263
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,760
Speaker 1: their job. Once they come up with a new compound

264
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,760
Speaker 1: that they're satisfied with, they send it off to the

265
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,560
Speaker 1: pharmacology department. The pharmacology department says, uh, yeah, actually this

266
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 1: made that frog's leg jump by itself all the way

267
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,760
Speaker 1: across the room. I think there's some potential here. The

268
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:35,240
Speaker 1: pharmacologist got their hands in on LSD, examined it, said

269
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,320
Speaker 1: we don't think there's any pharmacological potential here. Throw it away,

270
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 1: and Hoffman did as he was told. Five years later,

271
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 1: he um suddenly just thinks about LSD again, and it's like,

272
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,320
Speaker 1: you know what, I think they missed something. I'm gonna

273
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 1: make a new batch just on my own. Later on,

274
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 1: he was quoted as saying, I did not choose LSD.

275
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 1: LSD found and called me. So him deciding to make

276
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,800
Speaker 1: a batch on his own is highly irregular. For the

277
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,760
Speaker 1: first For one, he's a chemist. You know the chemist.

278
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 1: Don't go and tell the pharma colleges they missed something.

279
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,920
Speaker 1: They certainly don't have a hunch. Five years later they

280
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 1: missed something. And then thirdly, for him to make a

281
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:22,280
Speaker 1: batch of LSD was very weird. It was contrary to

282
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,400
Speaker 1: his work orders. And also Ergot was very expensive and

283
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 1: Sandoz was trying to keep a lid on expenses. So

284
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,240
Speaker 1: it was really really weird that five years later he

285
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,560
Speaker 1: mixes up another batch of LSD. That is true, but

286
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: while he was mixing it up, it was a sort

287
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,600
Speaker 1: of a little like a Peter Parker experiment gone wrong.

288
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,400
Speaker 1: He got a little inside of him somehow. Uh they

289
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 1: think now he probably got on his fingers and maybe

290
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,400
Speaker 1: like licked his finger while he was he had been

291
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,560
Speaker 1: eating KFC for lunch, maybe so, and uh it got

292
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:57,160
Speaker 1: into his body. Uh, and he you know, he had

293
00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 1: a macid trip. He had an accidental one at first,

294
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,800
Speaker 1: the world's first acid trip. That's right, And that happened

295
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 1: one of those pharmacologists. I was keeping something on the download.

296
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, this is useless, throw all this away

297
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 1: except to save me, like since my head staff. So

298
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,880
Speaker 1: that was April eighteen ninety three. And um, the next

299
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,320
Speaker 1: day Albert Hoffman's like, I got to try that again.

300
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,440
Speaker 1: So he takes some LSD. I think he took two

301
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 1: fifty micrograms at PM. Yea, I noticed that too, almost

302
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 1: on four nineteen. Yeah, but that's a marijuana thing. Yeah,

303
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 1: I just I just it kind of jumped out at me.

304
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 1: It's like I thought I saw that too. I'm sure

305
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,959
Speaker 1: everyone who's ever read that was like, oh dude, nineteen

306
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 1: Oh he was so close. That's the universe. So he

307
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,160
Speaker 1: took two fifty micrograms, is that right? Which is about

308
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 1: ten times the minimum dose that an average person takes

309
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,919
Speaker 1: these days. That's a lot. And he he shot it.

310
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:03,719
Speaker 1: He injected it in traveniously, I believe. Yeah, didn't he

311
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:05,800
Speaker 1: or did he take it orally? I'm sorry, no he

312
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 1: took it orally? Yeah, I don't. I don't see in

313
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,240
Speaker 1: there where he injected it, and uh, he started to

314
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 1: have a wild ride. He did. He went to the doctor.

315
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,919
Speaker 1: At first, he asked his assistant. He was like, um,

316
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 1: I am tripping pretty hard. You don't know what that

317
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,359
Speaker 1: is yet, but I do. And he said, I think

318
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 1: I should go to the doctor. And he went to

319
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,880
Speaker 1: the doctor and the doctor was like, dude, you're fine.

320
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,399
Speaker 1: Uh you're not fine, but there's nothing physically going on

321
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 1: with you. Right, and we should say he was that

322
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 1: he made it to his house with his assistant and

323
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 1: they were on their bikes. This is why where bicycle

324
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,919
Speaker 1: day comes from. And he was like, oh my god,

325
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 1: how long did it take for us to get home?

326
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 1: And as the system is like, actually, we made it

327
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 1: home really fast, and he's like what, he's freaking out,

328
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 1: He's like, go give me some milk from the neighbor.

329
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 1: Ends up drinking two liters of milk that night. Yeah,

330
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 1: because milk could supposedly quell the effects of different drugs

331
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,199
Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, so sense it did nothing for

332
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 1: this no and his neighbor. Later on, there's a couple

333
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 1: of stellar quotes. Let me jump back, sorry, jump back jack,

334
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,640
Speaker 1: that's all right. After forty minutes after that initial dose,

335
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 1: he wrote down in his journal seventeen hundred hours beginning dizziness,

336
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:21,399
Speaker 1: feeling of anxiety, visual distortions, symptoms of paralysis, desire to

337
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 1: laugh full stop. Uh. And then following that closely, I

338
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,360
Speaker 1: was able to write the last words only with great effort.

339
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: And then who wrote that last? And when he got

340
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,400
Speaker 1: the milk, he said, Um, the lady next door, whom

341
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 1: I scarcely recognized, brought me milk. She was no longer

342
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: Mrs R but rather a malevolent, insidious witch with a

343
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,640
Speaker 1: colored mask. So people think now he was fearful going

344
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 1: into this experiment, and that's what you know. We'll talk

345
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 1: about setting, setting and your mindset going in has a

346
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 1: lot to do with what kind of trip you have.

347
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 1: And people think now like he went into it fear

348
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 1: full and ended up by all accounts, having a bad trip.

349
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 1: He had a bad trip. But then the doctor came

350
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: and was like, look, man, uh you're something wacky's going

351
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,680
Speaker 1: on with you, but physically you're fine. You don't have

352
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 1: to worry about it. And I believe that's what kind

353
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 1: of freed Hoffman up to have a good time, have

354
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: a good trip. After that, he uh really started to

355
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: go oh wow and really took in what he was seeing,

356
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 1: what he was thinking, what he was experiencing, and um

357
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 1: moved from dysphoria to euphoria is the way he would

358
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 1: have put it. That's right. And he goes into work

359
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 1: the next day, tells everyone about this amazing experience and uh,

360
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 1: everyone else tries it, well, not everyone, but other people

361
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: at Sandos. His two bosses, did I think his boss

362
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 1: and his boss's boss. And the reason they were like no, uh,

363
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,400
Speaker 1: it was because he said I took two and fifty micrograms.

364
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 1: They're like, that's astounding, two fifty micrograms, right, that they've

365
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: never heard of a compound having the kind of effects

366
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 1: that Hoffman was reporting. And he's like, I measured it myself.

367
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: I know what I was doing, and it was two micrographs.

368
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: These guys each took a third of that, and they

369
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 1: tripped pretty hard themselves, and from that moment on, Sandoz

370
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 1: was like, we're onto something here. Yeah. He also experimented

371
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: on animals. He started dosing boy, you name it. He

372
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: gave it to mice, and he said they moved radically

373
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 1: and showed alterations in licking behavior. They taught themselves to

374
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: tide cats cats hair stood on end, and they salivated.

375
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,439
Speaker 1: He put cats and mice together and instead of the

376
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: cats attacking the mice, said, the felines would ignore the

377
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 1: rodents or sometimes even appear frightened by them. How about

378
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 1: that that's a cat on a bad trip, it said.

379
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 1: Chimpanzees did not show any obvious signs of being affected,

380
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: but normal chimps around them became upset, which he his

381
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 1: theory was they failed to maintain these weird social norms

382
00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: that are only perceptible to other chimps. Fish swar am oddly,

383
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: and finally Spider's altered web building patterns that low doses

384
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 1: the webs were even better proportioned and more exactly built

385
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: than normally, But in higher doses the webs are badly

386
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 1: in rudimentaral rudimentarily made. Yeah, so he would give it like, look,

387
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 1: there's a roach crawling across the floor. Let's douse it.

388
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: See what happens. And there's also a very famous case

389
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: and it wasn't Hoffmann. Who's who tested it? This dude

390
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma Um who was a professor of maybe pharmacology,

391
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 1: I'm not sure psychology. He shot an elephant. He got

392
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: his hands on the like Oklahoma City zoos elephant and

393
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: shot it full of LSD. The elephant, like trumpeted once,

394
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: fell on its side, started seizing its eyes, roll back

395
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: on its head, a bit part of its tongue off.

396
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: It stayed like this for an hour. He finally, ultimately

397
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 1: a lot of people point to this as a fatality

398
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: from LSD, proving that you can die. There's such a

399
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: thing as a fatal overdose from LSD. UM. But other

400
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: people say, well, actually, and then he shot the elephant

401
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: with even more tranquilizers to try to calm it down,

402
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: and that's probably what killed the elephant. But this guy

403
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: gave But it was like that for like an hour

404
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: and a half, just suffering on just an enormous amount

405
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: of acid. And the guy actually used to boast about it.

406
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: He kind of wore it like a badge, like it

407
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: made his career and it was just such a foul thing.

408
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: But even the scientologists were mad about it and released

409
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: like articles criticizing the guy in his work. Yeah, and

410
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: then there's a lot of questions about whether he's actually

411
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: UM and a CIA funded scientist as well. Well, he

412
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: had a blowgun so personal to give you when you

413
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: signed up with the CIA, is your blowgun and gallon

414
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: of LSD. Yeah, but r I P. Tusky the elephant

415
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: he went in a really bad way. That's terrible. Uh,

416
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: So long story short, sandals is onto something. Um. They

417
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,479
Speaker 1: say this research is compared telling we're gonna patent this

418
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 1: stuff and market it as Dela said DELI the E

419
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: Y S I D and uh they started advertising it

420
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: for use like psychiatrists you should get some of this stuff.

421
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: Get some you should use it yourself and use it

422
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 1: on your patients and see what happens. They said again,

423
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: I just want to repeat with Chuck said, use it

424
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: on yourself. Well, yeah, so you know what's going on exactly. Well,

425
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: that's highly irregular compared to the psychiatry of today. They

426
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: don't usually go like, here's a here's a couple of

427
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: any bars for you to try, just you know, eat

428
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: some and then you'll know what your patients are going through.

429
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: They don't do that anymore. So well that they they

430
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 1: they're not supposed to Chuck um. But yeah, Sandals was

431
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: like sending this stuff out as uh an experimental drug,

432
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: that's how it was labeled at first, and as it

433
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 1: called on um. They moved it into like full on

434
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: marketing and started selling them like hot cakes. Yeah, it's

435
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: pretty neat. If you look up de LISID for Google images,

436
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: you know it's just package right there. It looks like

437
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: it's a very nineteen sixties boss, says Del said, LSD

438
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: here it is in the vials, so weird. And they

439
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: came in uh microgram doses, which is a it's a

440
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: low dose. It's about half of what an average dose

441
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: you would buy today would be at a fish concert.

442
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: I guess I'm sure that's even a dated reference. What

443
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 1: were people doing LSD these days? E d M shows? Sure, Uh,

444
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: scrillics shows, how about that? That's probably dated it Probably

445
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: we're old chucks, you know, we're old Billy Joel concert. Sure,

446
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: people inject LSD at Billy Joel concerts right in their eyeball.

447
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: So by um, by the mid nineteen sixties, uh is

448
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: when it actually became illegal in nineteen sixty six. We

449
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 1: hold on stop making it before that though, as when

450
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: it was selling like hot cakes, like it was having

451
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: a real beneficial effect in the psychiatric setting. Doses were

452
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: given to patients. Patients got doses just in the U

453
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: S alone, right, I mean like a lot of doses

454
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: were sold and that was just the U S. And

455
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 1: it was having an effect. And in Europe they used

456
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: it for um this, they used it for a camera

457
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: what it was called, I want to say, like psychotronic

458
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: or something like that, where they just give you, like

459
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: the the average dose, maybe two pills, the low dose,

460
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: and then they would talk about your childhood and that

461
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: kind of thing. They used it to to kind of

462
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: disarm the patient. Right in the US, they used what

463
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: was called psychedelic therapy, where they would give you about

464
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: ten times the minimum dose about what Hoffman took when

465
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: he experimented on himself, right, and that was meant to

466
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: just not not just break down your defenses, but to

467
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: completely blow your mind basically, so that when you came

468
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: back down you had had all these revelations and you

469
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: were essentially a better person with a more fulfilled sense

470
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: of self and meaning in your life. Yeah, those were

471
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: the two schools of thought, Like in Europe, we'll talk

472
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: about your childhood and give you a little acid. In America,

473
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: We're gonna open all these doors of perception. And the

474
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: thought was that you could skip years of psychotherapy with

475
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: like a good acid trip, and a lot of people

476
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: had this experience. Very famously, Carrie Grant was um hugely

477
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: into acid as a result of going to see a

478
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: psychiatrist in Beverly Hills. And there's a really, really great

479
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: article from Vanity Fair from a few years back called

480
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: carrying the Sky with Diamonds that I would strongly recommend

481
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: going and reading because it's really interesting and it gives

482
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: you a really good glimpse of this era where like

483
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: like the mad Men era, everybody's taking LSD for at

484
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: their psychiatrist's office for eight hours. Well, there was an

485
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: LSD episode for Madness, right, I think it's mentioned in

486
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: that article. It was one of the best of a

487
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: great show when Roger Shirling takes acid. Yeah, it was

488
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: it at a psychiatrist. Uh no, it was. Um, it

489
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: was just like a you know, like a party, right, okay,

490
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,479
Speaker 1: but like a party where they were saying like, do

491
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: this to expand your mind. It wasn't you know, slip

492
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: to him or anything. But I had a profound effect

493
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: on him in the show. And Chuck, there's actually this

494
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: awesome little quote from Carrie Grant that makes it in

495
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: that that article about his experience with LSD one of

496
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: them at least. He said, Um, when I first started

497
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: under LSD, I found myself turning and turning on the couch.

498
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 1: And you have to imagine Carry Grant saying this year

499
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: which better? I said to the doctor, why am I

500
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: turning on the sofa? And he said, don't you know why?

501
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: And I said, I didn't have the Vegas idea, but

502
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: I wonder when I was going to stop? When you

503
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: stop it he answered, well, it was like a revelation

504
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,479
Speaker 1: to me. He felt like he was under the spell

505
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: of LSD or there's whatever. He realized like he had

506
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: control over his life. It's kind of cool. So it

507
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: did have a really big effect on people in real

508
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: life as well. But like you said, very quickly, in

509
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: very short order. Within ten twelve years of it being

510
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: marketed for the first time by Sandos, it starts to

511
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: become outlawed around the country and around the world. Yeah.

512
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: By nineteen sixty five, not a lot of research was

513
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: done in the United States. Um. By nineteen sixty nine

514
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: there were only six projects conducted. By seventy four, the

515
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: National Institute of Mental Health said that had no therapeutic value.

516
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: And then the final experiments in the United States took

517
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 1: place in the nineteen eighties. Uh. And those studies and

518
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 1: most of the newer studies now are concerned with end

519
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: of life care and germanly ill patients. Yeah, but the

520
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: the the window is starting to open once more to

521
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: studying LSD and its effects on neurology and um psychiatry

522
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff. UM. And actually, when it

523
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: started to get outlawed in Sandos stopped making it they

524
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: recalled their stocks of it and um handed it over

525
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: to the National Institutes of Mental Health for study. But

526
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: within a few years the National Institutes of Mental Health staid, like, no,

527
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: no therapeutic value whatsoever, despite people in the US alone

528
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: basically singing its praises, no therapeutic value whatsoever. Well, I

529
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: don't know if all forty thou people said it was great,

530
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: I would say a significant portion of it. If you

531
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: go back and look at the media coverage of it

532
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: at the time, it was mostly favorable. It's very promising.

533
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: All right, So we're gonna take a break here and

534
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: come back and teach everyone how to make LSD. Al right, Josh, alright.

535
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: H The first thing that you want to do if

536
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: you want to make LSD is be a really really

537
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: good qualified chemist. Yeah, with a really good qualified set up. Yeah,

538
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: this is not meth. You can't go to Walmart making

539
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: it in a mountain dew bottle and make it in

540
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: a mountain dew bottle on aisle six, shake it up

541
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: real good, and you've got meth. Yeah. Um, this is

542
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: The ingredients are tough to get and they're highly regulated. Yeah,

543
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: they're not found on drug store shelves. It's very different. No. Plus,

544
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: I mean you can start with um, and there's actually

545
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: other natural sources of LSD precursors, including um morning glory

546
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: seeds in Hawaiian baby wood rows seeds, And there are

547
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: some LSD recipes that call for extracting the stuff called

548
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: L S A um from these things and starting with that.

549
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: But it's it's a coin toss what kind of quality

550
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: your ultimate LSD is going to be because you don't

551
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: know how how good the L. S A is in

552
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: these things. Plus, the government um, in a nod to

553
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: their prohibition era tactics, actually put a toxic coating on

554
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: these seeds to discourage people from using them to create

555
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: LSD or even eating them, which some people do. So

556
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: I guess if you're a legitimate LSD chemist, you are

557
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: starting with ergic like Hoffman did. That's right, just like

558
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: in the old days in the nineteen thirties. Uh, what

559
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: you wanna do? You get this fungus, which is the ergot,

560
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: and you have to culture it to extract the alkaloids

561
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: from that ergot. Right, you have to have a dark

562
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: room because just like sheets of acid can be contaminated

563
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: by sitting it out in the sun, in the back

564
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: of your Jetta. The fungates itself will decompose under bright light. Right,

565
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: so you gotta do some of this early work in

566
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: the dark room, right exactly. Um. And uh, you take

567
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: the org it once you have it extracted. Um, you

568
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: you're you're isolating the alkaloids, right or get alkaloid. And um,

569
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: when you've got the alkaloid, you add some solvents and

570
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: reagents to it, which themselves are dangerous as well. Um.

571
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: One of them is chloroform, which is no joke chemical. Yeah.

572
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: Hoffman actually the next day thought he didn't quite know

573
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: for sure that it was the LSD, so he huffed

574
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: chloroform because he thought, you know, it's probably the chloroform.

575
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: He's like Jeff Bridges in The Vanishing. He has some chloroform,

576
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: and I guess woke up a little while later and said, Nope,

577
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: that wouldn't acid. Nope, something different must be the LSD. Um,

578
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: So chloroform is not good for you. Another one of

579
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: the re agents is uh anhydrous hydrazine, which sounds like

580
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: a Douglas Adams character and it's a known carcinogen, very poisonous.

581
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: And both of them are easily breathed in and absorbed

582
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: through the skin. So it's these things are no joke

583
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: in there important in uh turning ergic alkaloids into LSD.

584
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: So it's very difficult, very dangerous if you're not getting

585
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: that picture. Yeah, hopefully no one's like setting up in

586
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: their kitchen and like following along. Hit Sweet said, well,

587
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: I mean you would get nowhere very quickly. We're not

588
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: giving out detailed information. And what's funny. It's funny you

589
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: bring that because until I think like nineteen five, you

590
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: could mail off to the U S. Patent Office and

591
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: for fifty cents they would mail you the patent to LSD,

592
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: which is the recipe for LSD. You could get it

593
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: directly from the US government for a few years. I

594
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: bet it's some one somewhere, don't you know. I'm sure

595
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: on the dark web, probably not even on I Can

596
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: has cheeseburger. So the ergic alkaloid is in synthesize into

597
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: lesurgic acid compound. It's called isolasurgic acid hydrolyzed I'm sorry,

598
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: hydroside and you uh do you do that by adding

599
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: some chemicals, heat it up a little bit, uh, shake

600
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: it in your milk jug, put a little basil in there. Um,

601
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: is it okay to joke about this? If it's not

602
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: okay to joke about this, chuck, then we've lost our

603
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: sense of humor. That's right. Uh. Then that is is summarized,

604
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: which means, and this is pretty advanced chemistry, but it's

605
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: really advanced chemistry. Yeah. Uh. It means the atoms are

606
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: actually the molecules are being rearranged in the chemical process

607
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: with a little heat, a little reagent, solvent, that kind

608
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: of stuff. It's taking a compound and basically doing the

609
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: old switcheroo and then bam, you have an entirely new

610
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: chemical as a result. That's right. Um, you cool that down,

611
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 1: you mix it up with an acid, and the base

612
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: evaporated and you were left with isosurgic diaphylamide. I summarize

613
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: it again because you know if once it's good too

614
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: with better, then you have LSD and it's it comes

615
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: in the form of a crystallized powder, I believe. I

616
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: think it also says you can also make it a liquid.

617
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: Now you have to do something else to make it

618
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: a liquid. So when you have LSD that you've synthesized

619
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: from urga alkaloids, Yeah, it's a crystalline powder, a white powder. Yeah.

620
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: And in the old days, in the in the sixties, um,

621
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: you could make micro dots, which was a tablet form. Uh.

622
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: You could just mix it with liquid and you know

623
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: use it like you know, put this drop under your tongue, um,

624
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: or you know, make tea out of it or whatever. Uh.

625
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: And then window pane, which was gelatine squares. So that's

626
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 1: still around. I saw on Reddit some kid was like,

627
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: look at this and he was holding like a huge

628
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: thing of window panes and I think he called them,

629
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 1: well window panes too. Yeah, they're uh. The great great

630
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: movie Flirting with Disaster, did they take gel tabs? Well?

631
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: That one of the sun Lily Tomlin and Ellen all

632
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: the son at the end of the movie doses everyone

633
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: at dinner with window pane. That's what he calls it.

634
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: And I always just think that that's a funny word

635
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: for it. But these days you're more than likely going

636
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: to see what's called the blotterer acid. Uh. And what

637
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: they do is they just dissolve that powder in ethanol

638
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: and then dip a sheet of blotting paper that's conveniently

639
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: perforated into tiny little squares about a quarter inch by

640
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: a quarter inch. Yeah, they're little and and he he

641
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: soaks up into that paper. Um, sometimes the paper is

642
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 1: just plain white. Sometimes it's got a little cartoon characters

643
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 1: and things. A lot of times and uh, then that's

644
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: you know, that's a sheet of acid. Right. There's actually

645
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: a dude in San Francisco who has an acid museum

646
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: and he has a book like a huge binder of

647
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: sheets of acid just to basically show off the artistry

648
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: on it. And um, it's like, how has this not

649
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: been rated by the d A. I think the answer

650
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: to that is because the d e A doesn't know

651
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: it exists. It's probably fake, right, No, I would say

652
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: that's stupid because he hit a waste of money his Um, well,

653
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: I meant fake paper in there and tell everyone it's acid,

654
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: because what he's he's not trying to sell it. He's

655
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: trying to say, like, look at the art that people make.

656
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: You know that what I'm saying that why would he

657
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: waste all that money putting the drug on something he's

658
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: not he's buying I don't follow, Like he's going out

659
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: and being like, Wow, that's a really beautiful sheet of

660
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: acid by it and put it in my museum. Well

661
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: that's even dumber. So he said that these things have

662
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: been exposed to light over the years and that they're

663
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: they're most likely totally inactive. That we said the last

664
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 1: twelve times I tried to take it, it didn't work.

665
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: He's like, but I traveled back in time. So each

666
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: square is a dose, and you can get up to

667
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: nine doses on a single sheet. Uh. And we'll get

668
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: to this later, but the only might as well talk

669
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: about now. Uh. There was a Supreme Court ruling in

670
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: early nineties where they said, um, the weight of the

671
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: drug is also the weight of the paper, which uh yeah,

672
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people got really and remain

673
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: upset about this. Uh there. The argument is that's the

674
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: equivalent of saying, well, this cocaine came in this um suitcase,

675
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: So just way the suitcase with the cocaine, and if

676
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: it adds eight pounds, then it adds eight pounds. Instead

677
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: of measuring the actual quantity of the drug itself, it's

678
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: measuring the carrier device, right. And one reason they did

679
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: that was because the weight of again LSD, when you're

680
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: looking at a minimum dose of about quarter quarter of

681
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: a microgram, that's like the weight of two grains of salt.

682
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: So if you're trying to bust people, you could be like,

683
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: well a quarter microgram get to a year. So that's

684
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 1: why I'll see why they didn't do that. Just rewrite

685
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: the law to reflect the weight of the real drug,

686
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: because that's all they'd have to do. I know, it

687
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: was very weird. Sam Fisted can say that, yeah, you

688
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: just did. But the long and short of that is

689
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: there are people, uh the dealt acid at a fish

690
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: show that are in prison for longer than you know,

691
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: rapists and murderers. Oh yeah, there's the guy who's um

692
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: in prison for life without parole. He's like sixty six now.

693
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: He's been in there for a while because he got

694
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: busted with some acid. Yeah, um for life. Yeah, he's

695
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: spending his life in jail because he had acid with

696
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 1: and he's seen violent criminals all around him. Get pretty interesting.

697
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: Uh so should we talk about what an LSD trip

698
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: is like? Yeah? According to whoever wrote this article, I

699
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: think this is a Shana Freeman joint. Yeah. I thought

700
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 1: most of this was pretty good. There were a few

701
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: parts that I was like, come on, it was yeah,

702
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: very straightforward and logical and reasonable and rational and myth

703
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: busting too. Yeah, I agree. Uh so the hallucinations that

704
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: one would have on LSD. I think there's there's a

705
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: bit of a misnomer there and that some people might think, Oh,

706
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: you know, I saw a pink elephant come in the

707
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: room and sit down beside me, and I thought it

708
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: was real. Um, that's not exactly what they mean by

709
00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: an LSD hallucination. What they mean more is, um, you know,

710
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: I stared at the wall and the wall looked like

711
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: it was pulsating and breathing, or that painting had a

712
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: glow around it. Uh. And and it's also a case

713
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: of not oh my god, what's happening to my brain?

714
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 1: It's oh my god, this asset is awesome or bad

715
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: or strong. But I know that I'm on a drug

716
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: and it's making all these hallucinations happen precisely right, And yeah,

717
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: it's a great way to say I mean, it's it's

718
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 1: it's away from the classical definition of a hallucination because

719
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 1: you don't and it's also you don't you don't believe

720
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: what you're seeing is like real. You realize that it's

721
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: the result of the drug. Although I'm sure some people

722
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: have taken asset and really uh thought, like you know,

723
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: it's done such a number on the brain that they

724
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: didn't know that they were on the drug, which is

725
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: why you have your buddy there. You say, no, no, no,

726
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: that's the acid. Right, Well, that's that's Another point that

727
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: um Shane of Freeman makes in this article is that

728
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: because of the trip and how what a profound impact

729
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: that has on the brain. Um, you typically want to

730
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: trip with other people who have experience tripping in a

731
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: very calm place. And you mentioned set and setting earlier.

732
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: I think that was Timothy Leary that came up with that,

733
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: and set reminds refers to mindset and setting refers to

734
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 1: the setting that that you and you take your asset in. Right,

735
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: So you want to be in a positive frame of

736
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: mind or else you're going to probably have a bad

737
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: trip and you want to take it in a calm,

738
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: comfortable setting like your home or SHANEA. Freeman suggests the park. Yeah,

739
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: maybe don't. If you're stressed out about finals, maybe don't

740
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: take acid before you go to class to take those finals.

741
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: You're probably going to have a bad time. That would

742
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: betray set and setting in a profound way. Exactly. So

743
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: the trip itself typically lasts for something between maybe seven

744
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: to twelve hours. About halfway through. Uh, you're going to

745
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: experience what's called the peak, and the whole thing is

746
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: going to really start about thirty to sixteen minutes after

747
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: you take acid. Uh. Yeah, And if you've ever been

748
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: to college and seeing someone taking acid on the dorm floor,

749
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: you might hear a lot of like, I don't know

750
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: if it's working yet. I don't think it's working yet.

751
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think we got ripped off, man,

752
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: I don't think. And then all of a sudden, and

753
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: then you just shut the door and then you go

754
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: and study like a good student. Right. Physically, Josh, you

755
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: might have dilated pupils, increased blood pressure. Your body temperature

756
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: might raise. You might go a little sweaty and dizzy.

757
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: You might be drowsy. Um, you might be tingly in

758
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: the extremities, right, your stomach might feel kind of weird,

759
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 1: have a metallic sensation in your mouth. Yeah, you're probably

760
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: not hungry, right, Um, and you may uh, you're seeing

761
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: things in a very weird way. You will probably start

762
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: to notice patterns basically in the air. You could see

763
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: a wall, but eating. Like you said, Um, you're going

764
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: to see things in a different way than you normally do,

765
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 1: is the best way to put it. UM. In some

766
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: extreme cases, some people have reported synaesthesia triggering in them,

767
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: where their senses they're basically getting mixed up. I wonder

768
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: if they're synists maybe in that like unlocked it maybe, Um,

769
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: that's entirely possible because there's a pretty well established school

770
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: of thought that says that if you are predisposed to

771
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: a brain based mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, UM,

772
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: taking LSD can hasten its onset. It's not going to

773
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: give you schizophrenia, it's not going to give you bipolar disorder.

774
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: But if you were already predisposed to it and the

775
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: symptoms hadn't started yet, it could hasten that true. Emotionally,

776
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: Shana points out that you kind of can run the

777
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: gamut from happiness and euphoria. Uh, you love everything, You

778
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: love everyone. Everything's magical. That's the key word right there.

779
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: What's that magical? Yeah, everything seems magical to you, or

780
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: it can go the other way. Um, and you can

781
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 1: have you know, bad emotions, and that's you know, probably

782
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: part of the bad trip, go into it in the

783
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: wrong headspace, like we talked about. But that's the crux

784
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: of It's still the magic is still the crux of it.

785
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: Regardless of whether you're having a uth fork or a

786
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: dysphoric experience, it still seems to have supernatural qualities to it.

787
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: It's not just normal um having a bad experience, bad

788
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: mood kind of thing. It's like the universe is coming

789
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 1: apart and it's it's all reflecting poorly on my life. Yeah,

790
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 1: And I think with a lot of hallucinogenics, that's why

791
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: they're used in in spiritual and religious ceremonies all over

792
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: the world because it's a profound experience. It can make

793
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: you very contemplative, uh you know the things you think.

794
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: It can make uh people look inward and to cover

795
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: things about themselves. And so that's why I mean like

796
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: ayahuasca and uh ayahuascauska Ia huskahuasca and there's somewhere in

797
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: magic mushrooms who did a great episode on that. Um.

798
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: They've been used for millennia around the campfire for people

799
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: to like, you know, quote unquote unlock these doors in

800
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: their mind that they don't readily have access to. The

801
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: doors of perception. It's right. Uh. If you are an

802
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: observer of people on LSD and you're not on an LST,

803
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 1: you might think, Man, there talking a lot about really

804
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: things that aren't very important, But to the person on

805
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: the LST, it's very important. It's the most important thing

806
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: in the world at that moment. The person not on

807
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: LSD and the person on LSD will both mutually scare

808
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: one another and usually end up in different rooms at

809
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: a party. Uh. And then there is the the the

810
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: time jumps. Um. It just really will mess with your

811
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: sense of time. According to research, and they will say

812
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: that you might think you've been doing something for five

813
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: minutes and it's been an hour, or it might be

814
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: the reverse, and you might not have any idea how

815
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: much time is passing. So whether you're having a good

816
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: trip or a bad trip, the one thing that all

817
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: trips are gonna have in common is that they end

818
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: within about twelve hours or so. Like the magical thinking

819
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 1: goes away, what you would perceive as normal reality starts

820
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: to step back in and um, there may be some

821
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: sort of emotional or mental hangover, not a hangover like

822
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: one that alcohol brings on, but more just like a

823
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 1: whoa kind of thing after a profound emotional mental exercise

824
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: or being put through the grinder. Um, you're going to

825
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 1: you will have some sort of you'll be a wash

826
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: in something, but you reality will return eventually. That makes

827
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: sense that you would have an emotional hang over, Chuck,

828
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: because LSD basically mimics the shape of Sarahtonin and kind

829
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: of hijacks your serotonin receptors. Is how it does its thing,

830
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: So Sarah toonin is in part responsible for mood regulation, emotions,

831
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So it makes sense that you'd

832
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: be a little wacky the day after you trip on LST. Interesting. Uh.

833
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: Sometimes you might see uh, I always say college students,

834
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 1: And to keep picking on college students, I mean, what

835
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: happens about of acid trips are taken by college students. Um,

836
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: you might see a college student admit themselves to the

837
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: e R or call an ambulance. The doctors like this

838
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: was a terrible decision on your part. Yeah, and you go,

839
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 1: why are you talking to me about this? Just heal

840
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: me and the doctor will pat you on the head

841
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: and put you in a in a quiet room. And

842
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: no the doctor coming to the hospital while you're on acid,

843
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: I got you. But when you get to the r

844
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 1: the doctor will patch you on the head, put you

845
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: in a nice quiet dark room that everything is okay. Uh.

846
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: They may give you some anti anxiety meds or a

847
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: tranquilizer to sort of chill you out a little bit,

848
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 1: but basically they just keep you in there and tell

849
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: a nurse like, do me a favorite every hour going

850
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: there and make sure that guy isn't breaking some equipment

851
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: and he'll be fine. And you know it sounds like

852
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 1: about six hours. So that's tripping tripping one on one. Um,

853
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: you want to take another break before we get into

854
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: like what's going on in your mind? Yeah? Why not?

855
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: All right, so everybody bear with us. Man, So chuck,

856
00:49:55,600 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: what's going on right now? Yeah, well just went and

857
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: ppet he went to a little podcasters room and now

858
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: you're back during the break. That's what's going on. What's

859
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 1: going on in the mind? You mean on LSD. Funny

860
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: you should ask h here's the deal. When this article

861
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: was written, she said, researchers aren't sure what LSD is

862
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 1: doing in the brain. They still aren't sure. We have

863
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 1: a better idea, that a much better idea. Um, well

864
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: it was back a little bits of two. Well yeah,

865
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: this this one was from two thousand eleven. A Yale

866
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: psychiatrist named Andrew Sewell, one of the few dudes in

867
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: the US who uh does psychedelic drug research. He's not

868
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: l seven, He's not square. Remember that band else, Yeah, yeah,

869
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: they were good. Remember it was them, the Breeders and

870
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: four non Blondes all came out with like great albums

871
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: all at once and whole and I'm gonna take issue

872
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: with wholes. I'll take that one. No fenand blance they

873
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 1: have that Hey song. That whole album was pretty good.

874
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: All right, Well I'm bad, Okay. I was listening to

875
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: Pavement the entire time. You could listen to all of it,

876
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: all right. I was listening to Pavement to Now I'm

877
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: just kidding. I liked El seven though. Um Andrew Sewell, Uh,

878
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: he was a Yale psychiatrist, like I said, or maybe

879
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: still is. And he said at the time, uh, that

880
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: it had to do with the thalamus. Sensory impressions are

881
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: routed through the thalamus. Jacks is a gatekeeper. So his

882
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: theory at the time, which was built upon research from

883
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 1: Franz Volanda, Switzerland, said that drugs like LSD and psilocybin um.

884
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 1: They toned down the thalamus's activity. So, in other words,

885
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: the gatekeeper doesn't work. The he liken to to a

886
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: spam filter on email, said, it's not working as well,

887
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: So it lets it lets unprocessed information through to consciousness,

888
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: which is a great explanation of it. That was two

889
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: thousand eleven, but from you got that from Live Science, right, Yeah,

890
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 1: I think that was a good, good explanation of it. Yeah,

891
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: but we have brand new hot off the press's information

892
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: which I which doesn't necessarily contradict that, right, agreed. So

893
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 1: I think Imperial College of London researchers got their hands

894
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,959
Speaker 1: and some acid, gave them to some people and threw

895
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: them in a wonder machine and looked at their brain volunteers. Volunteers,

896
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: we should add that had all taken LSD before. This

897
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: wasn't against their will now, and that uh, they wanted

898
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: people that have tripped before and people that knew they

899
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: could handle taking acid and being an m r I machine,

900
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,839
Speaker 1: which we already have mentioned as weird and loud and claustrophobic.

901
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, that's a good point. That was very

902
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: wise of those guys. Yes, So the upshot of it

903
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:51,439
Speaker 1: was that we now have brain scans of people under

904
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 1: the influence of LSD for the first time in human history,

905
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 1: and it's it's really kind of opened up some new

906
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: ideas for what's going on an acid trip. And you

907
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 1: should see the difference of these, like the comparison to

908
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: control and the one on acid. It's like you don't

909
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 1: even have to read the caption to know which one's which,

910
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: Like one is like, okay, I'm I guess I'm thinking

911
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm aware of myself my toe, which is uh, am

912
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,359
Speaker 1: I gonna pay the water bill this month? And then

913
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 1: the other ones just like yeah, like that. It's amazing

914
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: what they said. I'm just gonna read it because they

915
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: say it better than I ever could. Um. They said.

916
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: LSD simultaneously creates hyper connections across the brain, allowing the

917
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: functions of seemingly unrelated regions of the brain to ooze

918
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: into one another. At the same time, the drug apparently

919
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: chips away at organization within networks. Like all of this

920
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: sounds like right on the money, uh, including a system

921
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,959
Speaker 1: the brain differs to at rest called the default mode

922
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: network yeah, which normally governs functions of such as self reflection,

923
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 1: autobiographical memory thing and mental time travel bing bing. Right.

924
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: So what what the what they're saying is is that

925
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: the idea that you see things differently, that you think

926
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: about things differently, that you understand concepts like the universe

927
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: and reality and your place in it differently than you

928
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: normally do is accurate. Like LSD changes literally the way

929
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: you think about the world by changing the connections in

930
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 1: your brain. Yeah. And notably they point out, um, in

931
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 1: the sixties, you would always hear a lot about the

932
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: ego and the sense of self. Uh. They think they

933
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: have proven through brain scans that LSD literally makes you

934
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: forget that your sense of self for that time, right,

935
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: and and it allows you to do something that LSD

936
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: is very famous for, which is makes you feel connected

937
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 1: to the universe, to humanity, to the gazelle population, to everything,

938
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: just feel connected. And again it's called um ego dissolution, right, Yeah,

939
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 1: which is one of the you know, it supports the

940
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 1: notion that when you take acid with somebody, you have

941
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 1: this bond with them, uh, perhaps even a lifelong bond.

942
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: They also found that the effects, the psychological effects in

943
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: the individual as well have lasting impacts as well, So

944
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,439
Speaker 1: it's not just like you're on the drug. You're under

945
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,280
Speaker 1: the influence of the drug. What you're thinking and feeling,

946
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 1: um is temporary. It actually creates a pronounced and most

947
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 1: commonly positive change in the individual's outlook on life in

948
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: stace of well being, which is pretty amazing. But now

949
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: we have brain scans of it. The brain scans just

950
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: in every way seemed to support everything everyone has always

951
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: said up. Not everyone, but the people that weren't making

952
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: up stories about acid, but about acid, the people who

953
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: never said, oh, I see a pink elephant in the room.

954
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: The people who never went up to somebody and like

955
00:55:55,160 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 1: wave their hand in front of their face. Oh, that's

956
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: somebody do that. Like a couple of summers ago at

957
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 1: my neighborhood pool, there's a stew behaving strangely and I

958
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: was like, I wonder, and then somebody went up and

959
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: went like that. So I was like, oh, no, I know.

960
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: So super promising research, and I think it's awesome that

961
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: they're looking into this stuff again. Um, are they doing

962
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: this in the United States? That all? Yet? Because it

963
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: didn't they sort of allow it again. Yes, three years

964
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: ago there was a two four um study with like

965
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 1: twelve terminally ill patients with cancer in the United States,

966
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 1: but it's still like very small groups of scientists are

967
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: probably working on like like twelve oh yeah yeah, and

968
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: they're using very small study populations. But the results that

969
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 1: they're finding, like in this case, um that the cancer

970
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 1: patients reported even twelve months on a more positive outlook

971
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: on life despite the fact that their life was coming

972
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 1: to an end prematurely in their opinion, um, because of

973
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: the acid. They're finding like all of these the studies

974
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: that are being carried out are are finding such sweeping

975
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 1: um conclusions about the potential for LSD to positively impact

976
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: people's lives that um there all of them are like,

977
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: we need more studies, more studies, more studies, we need

978
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: more people involved in I'm like, let's get back to

979
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: studying this, which we left off of like forty fifty

980
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: years ago for no good reason. And forty and fifty

981
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: years ago is when the scientists thought like they were

982
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: on the cusp of making some real breakthroughs. When everything

983
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: gets shut down, um, and back then, like the way

984
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: they do the studies now, it seems like our way better.

985
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: They didn't have controls back then, but they didn't use

986
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 1: controls in most of these experiments. Timothy Leary was carrying

987
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: out these studies. I mean, give me a break, all right,

988
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: let's talk about acid flashbacks. Yeah, I mean, Shanna calls

989
00:57:55,720 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: it very controversial among LSD users and researchers. Um, I'm

990
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,919
Speaker 1: gonna say false outright, because there's zero evidence that it's

991
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: a real thing and that the body actually retains some

992
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: bit of LSD. What you've heard, you know, the rumors

993
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: like it's in your spinal fluid. Uh, it's in your

994
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: fatty deposits, and years later you can be sitting in

995
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: a meeting and have a full on hallucinatory acid flashback. Right.

996
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: There's no mechanism that this could be carried out by

997
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: where there's like just yeah, like your your body stores

998
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: some acid for later and you start to trip again suddenly.

999
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 1: There are people who have reported it, Um, but it's

1000
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: entirely possible that they're mentally all right, or it's entirely

1001
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: possible they're suffering from something called hallucinogen hallucinogen hallucinogen persisting

1002
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: perceptive disorder. This sounds pretty awful if you ask me. Yeah,

1003
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: and this I did a little more research. Apparently this

1004
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: is linked to persistent LSD use. Um, someone who's done

1005
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: a lot out of acid, and it is even then,

1006
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: it's still not due to a build up of LSD

1007
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: molecules in the body. So what maybe they rearranged their

1008
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: neural connections. Well, it's where they also predisposed to mental illness. Well,

1009
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times it's as current medical

1010
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: opinions divided as to the cause. Uh, some people think

1011
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: it's a form of PTSD. Other people think there were

1012
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: changes in the brain morphology because they did so much acid.

1013
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: But it's still not like the old story, like you

1014
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: had acid in your body from a trip long ago.

1015
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: It's just reactivated, just like burned out sitting in the corner. Yeah,

1016
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: and supposedly where this was all born. At an educational

1017
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: meeting for a d A agents in San Francisco, a

1018
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: speaker said, Uh, he suggested that the rerelease of LSD

1019
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 1: hidden in the bodies of users led to untimely psychotic flashbacks.

1020
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: And no one has tape of this, but there are

1021
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: people that wrote about it, and all evidence points that

1022
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: like this is where the acid flashback myth. Myth was

1023
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 1: born just from this one speaker, that's that's really interesting

1024
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: the way to go dude. So um, again, we were

1025
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: talking about like there's a lot of hysteria surrounding LST.

1026
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: People have died on LSD. What's what's that issue is? Well,

1027
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: a couplefold One. Is there a lethal dose of LSD

1028
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: that's never been proven Despite the millions of acid trips

1029
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: that people have taken, it's never been conclusively shown that

1030
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: LSD led to the death of a human being. Yeah,

1031
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: I would assume, like there's a lethal dose of water,

1032
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: So I would assume if you drank five gallons of

1033
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: LSD you might die. But then it it's so out

1034
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: of the realm of believability. It's just like why even

1035
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: talk about it? Right? And there have been cases of

1036
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 1: people ingesting massive amounts of LSD. So the minimum dose

1037
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: is a quarter microgram, which is um like twenty five

1038
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: thousandths of a graham I believe. Is that like what

1039
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: an ascid hit is these days? I think it's that's

1040
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: about a half of a hit. It's a mild hit

1041
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 1: from what I understand. So if you go splits these

1042
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: with your girlfriend the fish concert, then you'd have like, yeah, yeah,

1043
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: that would be that kind of dose. I guess right, So, um,

1044
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: the that that's a that's a very small amount, like

1045
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: thousandths of a graham. Some people have taken like, no,

1046
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: thousands of a milligram. I'm sorry, that's the that's the

1047
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 1: Some people have taken milligrams of this stuff accidentally. Um,

1048
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: there was a group of people in and at a

1049
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 1: party and they thought they were snorting cocaine, but it

1050
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 1: turned out they were snorting powdered LSD. And one person

1051
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: which shown to have had seven have ingested seven milligrams

1052
01:01:54,560 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 1: of LSD. So that's like seventy thousand times the minimum

1053
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: dose something like that. Yeah, and I think this is

1054
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 1: actually in the Western Journal of Medicine. And they most

1055
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: of the people just boom. It knocked him out immediately

1056
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 1: and they passed out. The people that were awake, well,

1057
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: everyone went to the hospital because it was by all

1058
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:19,439
Speaker 1: accounts an overdose of LSD, but every everyone was fine.

1059
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: So that's what it was. It's like seven thousand micrograms

1060
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: and a minimum dose is a quarter of a microgram.

1061
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, like twelve hours later they were fine, and

1062
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 1: twelve years later they five of them were examined for

1063
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: years for long term issues. UM, and no one had

1064
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: any issues at that party. At least there's another one,

1065
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: another person who shows up in one study. I'm not

1066
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: sure what the case was around it, but the person

1067
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: survived in justing forty milligrams, which is forty micrograms UM

1068
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 1: and apparently survived. So so the toxic dose, the LD

1069
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 1: fifty dose, which is where half of the people who

1070
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:05,919
Speaker 1: took that dose would be expected to die. UM, it's

1071
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: never been established. We don't know what it is, but

1072
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: it's it's huge, it's massive. So the pharmacological deaths from

1073
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: LSD have probably never happened. What what is what has

1074
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: been documented is behavioral deaths. People who UM took risks

1075
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 1: potentially that UM they wouldn't normally have under the influence

1076
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 1: of LSD. If he went swimming in a place they

1077
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't have normally gone swimming, maybe jump from a building,

1078
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: not because they thought they could fly or anything like that,

1079
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: but because I think I can make it to the

1080
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: ledge and go party over there, Whereas if they were

1081
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: under normal conditions, they wouldn't have engaged in that behavior.

1082
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: So the Pore judgment basically right. But again those are

1083
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: pretty few and far between, although when they do happen

1084
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: they're there tragic. Yeah, and there there are also cases

1085
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: of like heart attacks and strokes, but um, with something

1086
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 1: like that, there's used the other drugs involved, and you

1087
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: can't conclusively say, like the LSD caused the heart attack.

1088
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 1: There's also apparently no documented, confirmed, confirmed report of somebody

1089
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: committing suicide under the influence of LSD. It's more like

1090
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: art link letters daughter somebody who had taken ls D before,

1091
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 1: and the l their their previous LSD use was blamed

1092
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: for it. But there's from what I could find, not

1093
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: a documented case of someone who was on LSD and

1094
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: went nuts and killed themselves. And even then I think, uh,

1095
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: it was It's a that's a difficult thing to prove

1096
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: that something caused something because then you start digging into

1097
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 1: that person's uh closet and find out that they were

1098
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 1: suicidal anyway, and this was a long time coming. Um,

1099
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: who knows. It's it's a tough thing to prove. The

1100
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: upshot of it is that the documented evidence of the

1101
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: positive effects that LSD can have on the human psyche

1102
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: um vastly out number the recognized tragic events that have

1103
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 1: taken place as a result of LSD. Can I read

1104
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: this one part about heavy LSD users because I thought

1105
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 1: this is kind of funny. Heavy LSD users can develop

1106
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: profound social problems, completely ruin their sleep cycles, and lose

1107
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 1: interest in eating and personal hygiene. They turn into hippies,

1108
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 1: is what they're saying. Yeah, And and she says something

1109
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: I do take issue with that there's no one and

1110
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: and rehab for LSD. That's not true. There are people

1111
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 1: in rehab for LSD. It's not common because she rightly

1112
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: points out that when you do LSD and then you

1113
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: do it again the next day, you and then the

1114
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: next day and the next day you become uh, you

1115
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 1: build up a tolerance really fast, and you just need

1116
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 1: more and more LSD and it doesn't work after a

1117
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: very short time. Right. Well, like I said, things normalize

1118
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: and you don't get the experience you're looking for. Um. So,

1119
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 1: like more most other drugs, it's not the kind of

1120
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 1: drug that you usually see people doing a lot of

1121
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: day in and day out all the time. Right. And

1122
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: what she's also saying is there's no no means for

1123
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 1: becoming psychologically or physically dependent on it, which makes it

1124
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: a non addictive drug, although the FEDS have it under

1125
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: Schedule one, which means that it has a high likelihood

1126
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 1: for abuse addiction and that it has no medical usefulness whatsoever.

1127
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: So both of those two, Um, but that's false for

1128
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: for both um, both of the reasons that, yeah, both

1129
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: of the criteria for a Schedule one drug. Um. She

1130
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: also points out, and this is something I never considered,

1131
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 1: but I think it makes a lot of sense. Um,

1132
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: the effects of LC aren't dependable, like you never know

1133
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 1: what you're gonna get, and addicts crave that dependability. They

1134
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 1: want to know, like cocaine will do the same thing

1135
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 1: to me every time, that bottle of Jack Daniels will

1136
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,439
Speaker 1: do the same thing to me every time, or that cigarette. Yeah,

1137
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: but um, I don't know what I'm going to get

1138
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 1: out of acids, so it just doesn't lend itself to

1139
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: that sort of addictive nature. Pretty interesting. Plus it's also

1140
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 1: further interesting that a lot of people have used I

1141
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 1: don't want to say a lot. I have no idea

1142
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 1: of the number, but I know it's been used in

1143
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 1: the past. People have used LSD and other psychedelic drugs

1144
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 1: to quit addictions like cigarette smoking, like alcoholism. And um,

1145
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: again you mentioned our can you treat mental illness with

1146
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 1: Psychedelics episode, which was awesome, but we talked about that

1147
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 1: in that that episode two. All right, Josh, let's I

1148
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 1: know this is a long one. Plus we got the

1149
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 1: hodgment that this is gonna be our first two hour show.

1150
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. But we can't finish the show unless

1151
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 1: we talk a little bit about the cultural history. Uh.

1152
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 1: Notably someone you mentioned, Timothy Learry. Dr. Timothy Leary actually

1153
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 1: worked at Harvard almost single handedly is responsible for the

1154
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 1: initial boom turn against LSD by the public and science.

1155
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 1: He took. He took what was a legitimate field of

1156
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 1: inquiry and um made it completely illegitimate. Like he's almost

1157
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 1: singlehandedly to blame for acid being first science turning its

1158
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 1: back on acid. Yeah, he had He had a loud

1159
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 1: voice and talked about a lot of like hippie dippy

1160
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 1: things that people didn't like, Scientists didn't like them, associating

1161
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 1: it with LSD. He founded a church where LSD was

1162
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 1: the sacrament of it, the League for Spiritual Discovery. Previous

1163
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: to that, though at Harvard, he and his colleague Richard

1164
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 1: Albert Um we're actually trying to study it a little

1165
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 1: more legitimately. That he got fired from Harvard and sixty three,

1166
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 1: and that's when he sort of went full bore towards uh,

1167
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, tune in, turn in, drop out, which he

1168
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 1: regrets that phrase, he he and he he should not

1169
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 1: be blamed for that because he said later on that

1170
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 1: he did not mean like drop out of society and

1171
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 1: like don't he said that it was taken like, um,

1172
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 1: that people's people took it to mean get stoned and

1173
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,720
Speaker 1: abandoned all constructive activity, and that that's not at all

1174
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 1: what he meant. That he went when he was saying

1175
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 1: turn on, he was saying, like, you know, turn on

1176
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:03,640
Speaker 1: your brain. Yeah, turn on your brain, like turn on

1177
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: your potential, like like let's get things going. Um, tune

1178
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 1: in to uh, interact harmoniously with the world around you,

1179
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 1: and then drop out with it becomes self reliant, not

1180
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:17,880
Speaker 1: dependent on the man or so basically an after school

1181
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: special that he was trying to make sure basically the

1182
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 1: more you know, and it was taken you know, people

1183
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: take things like water like they're looking for the path

1184
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: of least resistance in a lot of ways, so they

1185
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 1: took it to mean like, oh, it's great, Timothy Leary

1186
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,759
Speaker 1: just gave us all license to like not do anything

1187
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: useful and really upset all the crew cuts over there

1188
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 1: who are carrying everybody right now. Then there was kin

1189
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 1: Kisi Um, author of many books, uh, notably One Floor

1190
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: with the Cuckoo's Nest Um, which that alone makes him

1191
01:09:54,880 --> 01:10:00,959
Speaker 1: a yeah or just like a major contributor to popular

1192
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: culture culture even yeah, just that agreed. Uh. He was

1193
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: notable for being a part of the Mary Pranksters, which

1194
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 1: um it's documented in the Great Great Tom Wolf book

1195
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: The Electric kool Aid Asset Tests. His favorite books required

1196
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 1: reading really good um and it documents in Mary Prankster

1197
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: was basically a school bus, uh, psychedelically painted full of

1198
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 1: hippies driving around with gallons and gallons of acid at

1199
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:33,679
Speaker 1: the time when the cops had no idea what acid

1200
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 1: was or when it was not yet illegal. Yeah, but

1201
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 1: he got into acid because of the CIA. He was

1202
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 1: a volunteer in the late fifties to dose himself. And

1203
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:46,840
Speaker 1: uh he was what did she call him here, an

1204
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: acid populace that he was one of those that thought

1205
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: everybody needs to do this and it will be a

1206
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 1: different world. Uh. And then uh, finally, Mr Owsley Stanley,

1207
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: all the dead heads out there just went you about

1208
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 1: time they were so mad. While they never get mad,

1209
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 1: but get mad because they they have a profound social

1210
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 1: interaction problems. He was a chemist who was in hate

1211
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:17,680
Speaker 1: Ashbury and San Francisco, studied at cal Berkeley, and he

1212
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I'm taking a lot of

1213
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:23,240
Speaker 1: bad LSD and so I'm gonna start making it myself.

1214
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 1: He was a self taught chemist, did you say that? Yeah,

1215
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 1: And he got really really good at it. And Asley

1216
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:33,879
Speaker 1: l s D became the standard for good clean acid

1217
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties and seventies, and they used them

1218
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: at the acid tests which um can KESI used to

1219
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 1: hold in San Francisco and the Grateful Dead used to play.

1220
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 1: And Osley Stanley was also the sound engineer. Did he

1221
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 1: create the Wall of Sound? Was that him his doing? No,

1222
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 1: that was Phil Specter. But he was the Dead's original

1223
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 1: sound man. And what he got known for was he

1224
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 1: was one of the first people to mixed concerts lie

1225
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,800
Speaker 1: and in stereo and plug right into the board. So

1226
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 1: all those old you know, deadheads love to trade the

1227
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:12,679
Speaker 1: old bootlegs. Those bootlegs sounds so good because of Owsley. Um,

1228
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 1: because he was you know, he was an innovator as

1229
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:17,040
Speaker 1: a sound man, and he was one of the first

1230
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 1: investors in the Dead financially and because he was a millionaire.

1231
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:25,639
Speaker 1: Alicet Millionaires said he made like ten thousand or ten

1232
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 1: million hits of acid in his lifetime. Uh, he gave

1233
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 1: away a lot of it, though there was one there

1234
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:33,640
Speaker 1: was a sit in I can't remember what it was

1235
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 1: called where he gave out and by all accounts, three

1236
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 1: hundred thousand people took acid all in one place where

1237
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:44,639
Speaker 1: I had to be San Francisco. Uh. And he also

1238
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:50,639
Speaker 1: designed the Steely with Bob Thomas. The very famous lightning

1239
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 1: bolt skull logo on the Grateful Dead album Steal Your

1240
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 1: Face Right off of Your Head was designed by Owsley.

1241
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,639
Speaker 1: Did not know that, yep. And now all the dead

1242
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 1: Heads are going, Okay, you mentioned the Steely. I'm sure

1243
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:08,480
Speaker 1: we got some two and a half hours in um

1244
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:11,559
Speaker 1: and acids making a bit of a comeback in San

1245
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 1: Francisco to among all the little technocrats that took that

1246
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: town over and raised they're tripping and stuff, not really

1247
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 1: tripping their micro dosing there. Basically, Albert Hoffman had the

1248
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 1: idea that UM taking minuscule amounts of LSD could improve

1249
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:31,639
Speaker 1: cognitive function, so basically they're they're getting better at coding.

1250
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:35,719
Speaker 1: They're taking it and going to work and um, not

1251
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 1: fully tripping, but just having it's having some effects. Supposedly

1252
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 1: that's like the new thing with acid yea. And that

1253
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: is another reason I want to punch San Francisco in

1254
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,320
Speaker 1: the face. You're not the town you used to be.

1255
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 1: So and they all know it, so don't get mad

1256
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: at me. They it's true. They there's also some other

1257
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:58,720
Speaker 1: stuff chuck, Like, apparently if you buy LSD these days,

1258
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:01,679
Speaker 1: there's a really highlight lihood that you're actually getting something

1259
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 1: called n bomb dash n B O m E. Is

1260
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 1: it just another chemical. It's like a much more intense

1261
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 1: psychedelic that's very similar to LSD, but it does have

1262
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: shown toxic effects, Like people actually have died from overdoses

1263
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:24,639
Speaker 1: on this style. Thinking that they had LSD does not cool. Man.

1264
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: You don't sell something saying it's one thing stay away

1265
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 1: from the orange sunshine. Um. And then there's also some

1266
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 1: other thing called one p LSD and it's LSD with

1267
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 1: an extra pro pion il bond that technically makes it legal.

1268
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 1: That apparently it's open season on the internet with that

1269
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:50,560
Speaker 1: stuff right now. Kamaliohnny, the great comedian and friend of

1270
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 1: the show, has a great bit about some designer drug

1271
01:14:54,400 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: which is heroin and thailan al or thailan al cold edison,

1272
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 1: oh codeine. Yeah, like with heroin. Okay, it's just funny.

1273
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 1: He's like, you're already doing heroin. It's like the heroine

1274
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 1: is enough thailand. Yeah, it's just this. It just seems like, um, well,

1275
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:16,599
Speaker 1: these are like waxing nostalgic for the good old days

1276
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 1: of just acid. But it seems like if people are

1277
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 1: dying on something they think is acid, then maybe you're

1278
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 1: not doing it right. There you go, So, Chuck, I

1279
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 1: think that's it. That's LSD man. This could have been

1280
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:31,639
Speaker 1: a two parter. It could have been, but we're not greedy.

1281
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 1: We stayed just one. Yep. Uh. If you wanted more

1282
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 1: about LSD, just type those three letters into the search

1283
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 1: part how Stuff Works dot Com and it will bring

1284
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: up this great article. And since I said search part,

1285
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail. That's right, very special listener

1286
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: mail featuring Mr John Hodgman right here, right now. Yeah, okay,

1287
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 1: so here we are with an audio listener mail. Because

1288
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 1: as I read previously in the teaser. Judge John Hodgman

1289
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 1: a k a. John Hodgman of The Daily Show a

1290
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 1: k a. Hog Right is here and he refused to

1291
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 1: send us anything in the print, so he just said,

1292
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 1: why don't you have me on and we can do

1293
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 1: get out over nostalgia once and for all. Hello you guys,

1294
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 1: Hey John, nice to talk to you both. So John,

1295
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:26,240
Speaker 1: it's good to talk to you too. I think fondly

1296
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 1: about the times in the past when we have spoken before,

1297
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 1: but I always look forward more to the times when

1298
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,759
Speaker 1: we may speak again. Because time moves in one direction,

1299
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 1: and that is this, that is forward, and that is

1300
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 1: the direction I'm interested in. That's the little included um

1301
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:49,040
Speaker 1: intro to Happy Trails. The song is that. So time

1302
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:51,720
Speaker 1: moves in one direction, and that is what I'm interested in.

1303
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: It's known as and then if it's followed by into one,

1304
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:01,839
Speaker 1: Uh said John, you listen to the to the Nostalgia

1305
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 1: episode right when we were were pretty hard on you.

1306
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:06,639
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I don't know what you guys were so

1307
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 1: mad at me about you, especially I feel we're stung

1308
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:17,320
Speaker 1: by the premise that I have stated frequently as settled

1309
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:21,080
Speaker 1: law on my own. Judge John Hodgman podcast available at

1310
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 1: maximum fun dot org for free or on iTunes. That

1311
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 1: nostalgia is the most toxic impulse. And I admit that

1312
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:36,240
Speaker 1: I've I employ a little hyperbole in that statement, but

1313
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 1: I think at its core, I believe that it is

1314
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 1: true that nostalgia. My point of view is that nostalgia

1315
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:49,600
Speaker 1: that is a yearning for the past, is at best

1316
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:57,519
Speaker 1: unproductive and at worst poisonous. So John, we talked about this, Chuck.

1317
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:03,760
Speaker 1: Chuck introduced your radical views about nostalgia on the Nostalgia episode, right,

1318
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 1: your leftist theory. Right, Well, how did you do? How

1319
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: did you come to this conclusion about nostalgia? Like where

1320
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,800
Speaker 1: you in nostalgizing and um like bit your tongue off

1321
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 1: or something. I mean, what what happened to make you

1322
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 1: feel this way about nostalgia? If I may ask? I

1323
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 1: don't know that there was any one particular turning point

1324
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:25,240
Speaker 1: because and the truth is that I I am a

1325
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 1: guy who likes old timey things, right, and this is

1326
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:31,280
Speaker 1: not to say old timey things are bad. I grew

1327
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 1: up going to the Coolidge Corner movie House in the

1328
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 1: Coolidge Corner Recline, Massachusetts, where I which is my hometown.

1329
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: You wrote a Penny Farthing to work. I did not write.

1330
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 1: I did not write I'm not that kind of loathsome

1331
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 1: but you know, at that time, all they would do

1332
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:48,759
Speaker 1: is show old Marx Brothers movies and the Thin Man

1333
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 1: marathons and even even you know, more recent old movies

1334
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:57,639
Speaker 1: as it were. And I love, I would love going

1335
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 1: into so called nostalgia stores to pour through uh old

1336
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 1: movie posters, and I love used bookstores. I love the

1337
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:10,800
Speaker 1: trappings of seeing culture what it was like at a

1338
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: time that was different from the way it is in

1339
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:16,879
Speaker 1: my own life. I love to I love to rummage

1340
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 1: through junk stores and thrift stores and find stuff. And

1341
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 1: I come in listening to your podcast, I completely UH

1342
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 1: felt with you. I guess that is called empathy. That's

1343
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:35,720
Speaker 1: different feeling with and No, I mean empathy and nostalgia

1344
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 1: are different. No, But I felt empathy for uh, for

1345
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:43,760
Speaker 1: you your individual expressions of the things that give you

1346
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 1: that that whispy feeling of nostalgia. Um and and how

1347
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:50,840
Speaker 1: that is, how that is in a personal mode of

1348
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 1: very comforting feeling, because I can speak honestly that you

1349
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 1: know I went when I went through when I when

1350
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:02,240
Speaker 1: my mom passed away about fifteen years ago I went.

1351
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 1: I could not go. I could not engage with any

1352
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 1: culture that was more challenging, um than reading the Dorling

1353
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:14,200
Speaker 1: Kindersley books that of Star Wars vehicles like that was

1354
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 1: the only thing I could read before going to sleep

1355
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:19,559
Speaker 1: because I was in such emotional pain in the present.

1356
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 1: Had you had you read those as a younger, lad Well, no,

1357
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:28,680
Speaker 1: because I mean no, but because I didn't exist. But

1358
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:31,040
Speaker 1: those dek books of the of the Star Wars vehicles

1359
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 1: that sort of give you these cross sections of all

1360
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 1: the vehicles, you know, it was not I was not

1361
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:38,440
Speaker 1: engaging with new culture per se. I was just revisiting

1362
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 1: my feelings about Star Wars, do you know what I understood?

1363
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 1: So I was exactly playing with old toys in like

1364
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:48,040
Speaker 1: playing with playing with my old at. I never had

1365
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:49,759
Speaker 1: the ad at, nor did I have the melting I'm falling.

1366
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:51,880
Speaker 1: I never had either one of those two, and I'm

1367
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:54,360
Speaker 1: still I'm a little bitter about it. Still. Yeah, I

1368
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: know those were those were the big ticket items. But

1369
01:20:57,280 --> 01:21:00,680
Speaker 1: from my point of view, storage was a problem with

1370
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 1: those things, very untidy well they served as storage um

1371
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 1: boxes themselves. Really, Yeah, but you couldn't put the ad

1372
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 1: at into the millennium falcon and none of the none

1373
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:14,439
Speaker 1: of them fit into any good sized shelf. And and

1374
01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:17,200
Speaker 1: even as an even as a nine or ten year

1375
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:23,800
Speaker 1: old neurotic only child, I had real tidiness issues. But

1376
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 1: I will say that, you know, um, I wasn't at

1377
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 1: a point where I would be playing with my old, oh,

1378
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 1: you know, my old my old lobot, figuring it was

1379
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 1: my favorite in bed as a grown man, next to

1380
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 1: my wife to fall asleep. If I would certainly read,

1381
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:46,559
Speaker 1: I would certainly read about the propulsion mechanism of a

1382
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 1: best pined twin cloud car, for sure, and really and

1383
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:55,439
Speaker 1: dig into those weeds and and and prod those feelings.

1384
01:21:55,439 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 1: And indeed, today you know it's still the case that

1385
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 1: I have two things on my nightstand because night night

1386
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:06,880
Speaker 1: is the time when when you and going to bed

1387
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:11,040
Speaker 1: is the time when you might be most prompted to

1388
01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 1: feel nostalgia, because on the one hand, you're trying to

1389
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:16,200
Speaker 1: ease yourself to rest, and on the other hand, as

1390
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 1: you grow older, in particular, you realize that every going

1391
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 1: to sleep time is a rehearsal for your own death.

1392
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 1: So whatever you're anxious about can really come out at

1393
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 1: night or in the middle of the night, right when

1394
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 1: you wake up during second sleep, which is a concept

1395
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 1: that I've heard about first on the Great Stuff You

1396
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: Should Know podcast available on the How Stuff Works Network,

1397
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:38,080
Speaker 1: right the Plugs and so on my dead side table,

1398
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,720
Speaker 1: both real and virtual. I have two sets of culture right.

1399
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:45,920
Speaker 1: One is new stuff that I've never read before or

1400
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:49,240
Speaker 1: or encounter before, or watched before, whatever it is that's

1401
01:22:49,280 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 1: going to be challenging or interesting or provocative, even if

1402
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:54,600
Speaker 1: it's only because I've never seen it or read it

1403
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:57,040
Speaker 1: or listen to it. And then there's old, the older

1404
01:22:57,080 --> 01:23:01,240
Speaker 1: stuff that's gonna reconnect me with a feeling that I

1405
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 1: might have had in the past. But even in the

1406
01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 1: older stuff like I got a pile I got a

1407
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 1: pile of old Avengers comics from the seventies, but which

1408
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 1: are which are dumb, profoundly unchallenging and remind me to

1409
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:17,680
Speaker 1: some degree of what it felt like to be a

1410
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 1: little kid buying comics on i RAQ. But even those

1411
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 1: are comics that I've not really read before because they

1412
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:25,599
Speaker 1: were before my times even then. But it's like I

1413
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:30,680
Speaker 1: get it. I totally appreciate and was illuminated, I should say,

1414
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:35,800
Speaker 1: by your podcast for pointing out um that that this

1415
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:42,200
Speaker 1: therapeutic personal therapeutic aspect of transporting yourself or giving yourself

1416
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 1: a good feeling by by uh re encountering um or

1417
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:52,800
Speaker 1: or imagine reencountering culture from your past or thinking about

1418
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:57,360
Speaker 1: good times from your past. He's real and measurable and

1419
01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 1: and uh scientific, right, that's part of that was part

1420
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 1: of your conclusion, correct, Right, So I get I am

1421
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:09,479
Speaker 1: on board with you for that that nostalgia from a

1422
01:24:09,520 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 1: personal point of view, can be a truly soothing therapeutic tool,

1423
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:18,640
Speaker 1: uh that can can help calm you during periods of

1424
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: stress and and this disorder in your life. And that

1425
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:27,240
Speaker 1: sounds like a drug though, right, And it's like all drugs,

1426
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:32,840
Speaker 1: it should be used in moderation like and there. And

1427
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:35,720
Speaker 1: there's a reason for that specifically because I think that

1428
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:41,679
Speaker 1: it is a uh when overused, it as a drug

1429
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:44,800
Speaker 1: that can cause truly deltarious effects and the happiness of

1430
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 1: your life. And here's the reason why, No, is this

1431
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:56,360
Speaker 1: the crux off? Well, Look, I'm going on along. I'm

1432
01:24:56,400 --> 01:24:59,400
Speaker 1: going on a long disquisition in part because I love

1433
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:02,560
Speaker 1: the sound of my voice and in part because you

1434
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:04,639
Speaker 1: guys called me up because I refused to write any

1435
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:06,360
Speaker 1: of this down for free just because you mentioned my

1436
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 1: name in a podcast, So you can either take the

1437
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:11,400
Speaker 1: free essay or not. But if you'd like, if you'd

1438
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 1: like to jump in and challenge me on any of this,

1439
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm always glad to do this in a more back

1440
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 1: and forth manner. Well, no, that's so the reason neither

1441
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:22,120
Speaker 1: one of us challenges because you you've so far totally

1442
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 1: agreed with everything we believe about nostalgia. Basically, here's where

1443
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 1: it turns dark. When it turns toxic is well is

1444
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 1: in overuse or over application. And and there are two

1445
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:40,560
Speaker 1: ways that that can happen, but figuratively poison to oneself

1446
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 1: or to society at large. And here's there. Here is

1447
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:49,240
Speaker 1: the reason why it is a dangerous drug. Nostalgia is

1448
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 1: founded on a fallacy, on a delusion that is has

1449
01:25:55,120 --> 01:26:00,400
Speaker 1: two parts, one that the past was better not true,

1450
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:06,760
Speaker 1: and to to not true not true? Are you you no? No, no,

1451
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 1: I'm not go ahead, right okay, quite right, quite right, chuck,

1452
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:15,519
Speaker 1: Not true, because man, I'm my brain just stripped out.

1453
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:18,320
Speaker 1: There is no there is no rosy past that you

1454
01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:21,599
Speaker 1: could in your life or in your imagining of your

1455
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 1: societal life that does not have counter examples of why

1456
01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:29,320
Speaker 1: it was actually far worse. So you agree with that?

1457
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,760
Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt, John, Do you agree with that, don't you? Chuck? No,

1458
01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:34,559
Speaker 1: that's one of the things I fully disagree with. Sometimes

1459
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 1: things were better in the past. Okay, pick a time, huh,

1460
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 1: pick a time. No, No, I'm not talking about in

1461
01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:47,519
Speaker 1: an era. I'm talking about personally in someone's life. There

1462
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:50,439
Speaker 1: were times that are better than others, of course, So

1463
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:54,240
Speaker 1: you're talking about as an era, yes, okay, Okay, that's

1464
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:59,040
Speaker 1: where I misunderstood you. Yeah, the the so okay, you

1465
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:03,320
Speaker 1: could you could make an argument like my my experience

1466
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:11,559
Speaker 1: of say, uh the nies. Yeah, you could say that

1467
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:17,200
Speaker 1: my experience of the nine eighties was a good was

1468
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 1: better then my experience now, And that might be true

1469
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:28,400
Speaker 1: for your personal um for your personal experience, but that

1470
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 1: might not be true, Uh if you were a gay

1471
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:36,560
Speaker 1: man dying of bates. Okay, Yeah, it's just been diagnosed.

1472
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:39,559
Speaker 1: I think I've misunderstood you've all the all these years,

1473
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:43,519
Speaker 1: and that you were always saying, even on a personal

1474
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: level level, times were not better. Uh. And it's just

1475
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:49,720
Speaker 1: you know, a misremembering of the past. Yeah, because it

1476
01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:52,720
Speaker 1: sounds like everything John is saying we covered on the

1477
01:27:53,160 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 1: on the podcast on this nostalgia episode, Well, this is

1478
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 1: exactly right, because I've explained all of this to check

1479
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: before and he obviously misremembered it from the past, because

1480
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:07,599
Speaker 1: memory is absolutely selective, and the things and and and

1481
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:11,480
Speaker 1: even and and I think the common aspect of nostalgia

1482
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:15,599
Speaker 1: that we can agree on is that there is one

1483
01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:19,760
Speaker 1: constant to one's reimagining of the past. It is reimagining

1484
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:25,000
Speaker 1: of a time when you were younger. And that's always

1485
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 1: better than being older. Sure, just because you're too dumb

1486
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 1: to know what is really going on, you don't have

1487
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:35,120
Speaker 1: the responsibility you know that you that you're settled with

1488
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 1: as an adult, that you can make a lot of

1489
01:28:37,560 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 1: a lot of cases that for the average person, childhood

1490
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:45,360
Speaker 1: was easier and you know, more enjoyable than adulthood, you know,

1491
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:48,040
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Quite so for the average person,

1492
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:50,920
Speaker 1: that's quite that's quite true, I think. And also even

1493
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:53,720
Speaker 1: if that person had, even if wasn't had a terrible childhood,

1494
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:55,720
Speaker 1: there were still at a time when their whole life

1495
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:57,519
Speaker 1: was laid ahead of them and they could have dreams

1496
01:28:57,520 --> 01:28:59,800
Speaker 1: and ideals. But now that we're getting into our late

1497
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:02,599
Speaker 1: teason and for me mid forties, you know, it's all

1498
01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 1: just coming to an end. That's how optimistic about the future.

1499
01:29:08,120 --> 01:29:10,720
Speaker 1: But the second part of the delusion is that the

1500
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 1: past is attainable in some way. And I don't think

1501
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 1: either of you are suffering from this particular nostalgia. But

1502
01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:24,879
Speaker 1: let me say this. The thing that turned me against nostalgia,

1503
01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:28,320
Speaker 1: I just remembered what it is in some ways, is

1504
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 1: that one of the things I was comforting myself, and

1505
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:35,680
Speaker 1: it was it was I had two big body blows

1506
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:39,160
Speaker 1: in the year two thousand and then the year two

1507
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:41,880
Speaker 1: thousand one, and that was the death of my mother

1508
01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:44,840
Speaker 1: in the year two thousand and then the World Traits

1509
01:29:44,840 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 1: Center attacks in the year two thousand one, and there

1510
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:52,080
Speaker 1: was a lot of Star Wars reading and taking of

1511
01:29:52,360 --> 01:29:55,160
Speaker 1: valium that I had stolen from my mother's medicine cabinet

1512
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 1: after she passed away in order to get through those

1513
01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 1: it's a fair game. Well, you know what, Nostalgia is

1514
01:30:03,439 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 1: a comforting pill to take, but there are actual comforting

1515
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,840
Speaker 1: pills to take, and if you take too much of them,

1516
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 1: it's a problem because on a personal level, you might

1517
01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:15,200
Speaker 1: become mired in nostalgia to the point where you you

1518
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 1: become depressed with your everyday life and you because you

1519
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:21,200
Speaker 1: know on a level you can't regain the past that

1520
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:24,360
Speaker 1: you have convinced yourself was better and more glorious. That is,

1521
01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:26,920
Speaker 1: that is a bad state to be in. And if

1522
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:29,719
Speaker 1: you want to learn more about that, listen to Dana

1523
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:36,080
Speaker 1: Gould's incredible monologue about about Buddhism and its rejection of

1524
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:38,960
Speaker 1: the past and it's disconcern with the future and the

1525
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:42,599
Speaker 1: embrace of the present on his own podcast, The Dana Gueldaur,

1526
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:46,040
Speaker 1: especially the episode Happy Sad Right. But the other thing

1527
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 1: that I was engaging with was um, a movement of jihad,

1528
01:30:51,479 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 1: which is hardly unique but was on my mind at

1529
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 1: that time. That is founded on a principle of nostalgia.

1530
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:04,160
Speaker 1: Radicalized jew bodies right like like a lot of radicalized

1531
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:09,680
Speaker 1: right wing terrorists in the United States, believe that the

1532
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 1: past was better and that the present is corrupt and

1533
01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:18,920
Speaker 1: that we can do something to get back to the

1534
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 1: way it was. And well, John, not just with Jihad,

1535
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:27,320
Speaker 1: I think with any conservative and especially ultra conservative movement

1536
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:32,840
Speaker 1: in not just religion but also politics, economics, just about

1537
01:31:32,840 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 1: any anybody of of ultra conservative people seem to harken

1538
01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:39,200
Speaker 1: back to the past and want to bring it back

1539
01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:42,400
Speaker 1: so that the future is more like some idealized past,

1540
01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:45,640
Speaker 1: not more not more like, not more like exactly like

1541
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:49,439
Speaker 1: and and and you know the thing that's and and

1542
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even I wouldn't even say that it's a

1543
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:56,120
Speaker 1: far right impulse. There's certainly far left utopian impulses that

1544
01:31:56,240 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 1: expressed the same sort of if we just get back

1545
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:02,639
Speaker 1: this is where we went wrong, and if we go

1546
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:07,559
Speaker 1: back here and and freeze here, um, it will be

1547
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 1: better now. But I don't have any problem. I don't

1548
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:13,479
Speaker 1: have any problem with by Anyone can do whatever they want.

1549
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:15,479
Speaker 1: People like what they like. And if you, as a

1550
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:20,800
Speaker 1: society want to isolate yourself from contemporary society, like the

1551
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:23,120
Speaker 1: Mennonite movement or the Amish movement or what have you,

1552
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:26,200
Speaker 1: and and and try to try to hold your own

1553
01:32:26,240 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 1: ground in contemporary culture because you think that is a

1554
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:31,760
Speaker 1: better way to live, go for it. As long you're

1555
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:36,040
Speaker 1: not hurting anyone else, that's great. But don't be deceived.

1556
01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:43,200
Speaker 1: Star Wars is itself and an entire story premised on nostalgia.

1557
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:49,840
Speaker 1: Things were better before the Empire, And if we blow

1558
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:54,120
Speaker 1: up enough human beings. We can make it good again.

1559
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:58,760
Speaker 1: We can make the galaxy great again. And does that

1560
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:04,880
Speaker 1: rhetoric have any echoes with today any one presidential campaign

1561
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:08,120
Speaker 1: ring a bell when I say we can make the

1562
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:11,680
Speaker 1: galaxy great again. We're gonna win so much against the

1563
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:15,439
Speaker 1: Empire that is gonna make your head spin. It's you know,

1564
01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 1: it's it's Star Wars is uh and I have I

1565
01:33:20,240 --> 01:33:22,360
Speaker 1: think I've had this fight with you guys before. It's like,

1566
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 1: it's there's a reason Star Wars isn't science fiction. It's

1567
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:30,040
Speaker 1: pure fantasy because it is a It is nostalgic by

1568
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:32,559
Speaker 1: by in its very DNA, and that makes it a

1569
01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 1: great story. Right. But as soon as you start having

1570
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:40,240
Speaker 1: political movements founded on the idea that we actually can

1571
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:44,120
Speaker 1: turn back time, then I feel that that was the

1572
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:47,920
Speaker 1: moment I suppose that I began to feel like, oh, yeah,

1573
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:49,840
Speaker 1: you know what, I want to close this Star Wars

1574
01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:52,360
Speaker 1: book because I can't go back to that. I'm in

1575
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 1: an uncomfortable new present and my job as a human

1576
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: is to make the best of it now, and so

1577
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:03,599
Speaker 1: I did, although I still dip back into it from

1578
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:06,639
Speaker 1: time to time. So now you just watch the Force

1579
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:09,920
Speaker 1: awakens basically is what you're saying. Well, I feel like

1580
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:12,520
Speaker 1: I had a cultural obligation to watch The Force Awakens,

1581
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:17,719
Speaker 1: and I enjoyed and I enjoyed it once but the but,

1582
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:20,080
Speaker 1: but the thing that I enjoy about it the most

1583
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:26,320
Speaker 1: is that it is attempting to move the story forward,

1584
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:31,519
Speaker 1: and I'm happy to care about characters in a in

1585
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:33,400
Speaker 1: a very familiar world. But I'm happy to care about

1586
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:36,080
Speaker 1: characters that I that I've never seen before and be

1587
01:34:36,160 --> 01:34:38,920
Speaker 1: concerned about what's going to happen for them in the future.

1588
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:44,920
Speaker 1: As contrasted to the to the prequel trilogy um which

1589
01:34:45,240 --> 01:34:49,360
Speaker 1: still exists no matter what people say, which completely you know,

1590
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:51,519
Speaker 1: misunderstood a lot of things. But one of the things

1591
01:34:51,520 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 1: that misunderstood was that if you have a movie that

1592
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:56,880
Speaker 1: is founded if you have a movie like Star Wars

1593
01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:01,080
Speaker 1: or Empire or Jedi one big trilogy but has founded

1594
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:05,000
Speaker 1: on nostalgia, that that the past before, that the past

1595
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:07,519
Speaker 1: was better than the present, and if we blow up

1596
01:35:07,640 --> 01:35:10,759
Speaker 1: enough stuff we can get back to that wonderful past.

1597
01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 1: Then you cannot show the story of the past because

1598
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:17,679
Speaker 1: all the past will reveal is it was terrible then too.

1599
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:21,400
Speaker 1: People were just as corrupt, you know, there, there's just

1600
01:35:21,439 --> 01:35:25,639
Speaker 1: as much bad stuff going on, and and you there

1601
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:28,200
Speaker 1: is no good past to get back to. So in

1602
01:35:28,240 --> 01:35:30,880
Speaker 1: many ways that they were, those three I mean, those

1603
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:36,080
Speaker 1: three prequel trilogies were dark in the sense, even even

1604
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:38,840
Speaker 1: in their lightest moments, in the sense that they were

1605
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:45,080
Speaker 1: basically about uh, you know, the corruption of uh foreign

1606
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 1: interventionism as a policy, and you know, misusing military for

1607
01:35:50,320 --> 01:35:53,479
Speaker 1: personal agendas and all sorts of weird crypto critiques of

1608
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,360
Speaker 1: the George W. Bush administration, for which those movies don't

1609
01:35:56,360 --> 01:35:58,400
Speaker 1: get a whole lot of credit because they're terrible and

1610
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:01,120
Speaker 1: not fun to watch. But they were. But they were

1611
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:05,479
Speaker 1: much there. They are much more rooted, not surprisingly in

1612
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:09,080
Speaker 1: a middle to elderly aged man's appreciation of what life

1613
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:12,559
Speaker 1: is really like, that is to say, George Lucas than

1614
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:17,120
Speaker 1: the first three trilogy. The first the original trilogy was

1615
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:18,920
Speaker 1: when he made it at a much younger age and

1616
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:24,400
Speaker 1: he could afford to be nous algae. Wow, mine's blown, right, Yeah,

1617
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:27,559
Speaker 1: that's what I do all day. He just blow mind.

1618
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:31,640
Speaker 1: That's right. Alan Josh was threatening to auction off my stripe.

1619
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:35,240
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not scared to tell you. It's Hodge

1620
01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:40,640
Speaker 1: hyphen Man. Oh yeah, you go. If you catch me

1621
01:36:40,680 --> 01:36:43,320
Speaker 1: on Skype and I feel like picking up, I'll blow

1622
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 1: your mind too. You're like weird Al Yankovic Hodgeman. Why

1623
01:36:48,120 --> 01:36:50,920
Speaker 1: does he answer his own phone? He once tweeted that

1624
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:54,120
Speaker 1: he was like hanging out and I think the Minneapolis

1625
01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:56,479
Speaker 1: airport and here's the number for a pay phone he's

1626
01:36:56,520 --> 01:36:58,439
Speaker 1: standing next to so give him a call and some

1627
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:02,800
Speaker 1: fan call. Then he talked for like twenty minutes. What when?

1628
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:05,639
Speaker 1: When was this a couple of years five years ago

1629
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:09,439
Speaker 1: when they were payphones. However, there's a time when there

1630
01:37:09,520 --> 01:37:13,200
Speaker 1: was Twitter and pay phones. Yeah, there was like a

1631
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:15,880
Speaker 1: six month period and Weirdale made the best the best

1632
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:18,800
Speaker 1: of it. Well, he's nothing if not resourceful. That was

1633
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:22,840
Speaker 1: a great those are great days. I remember once. I was, yeah,

1634
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:24,920
Speaker 1: I know, you know what, that's true? It really was.

1635
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:27,960
Speaker 1: It was a golden age for Twitter. It wells we

1636
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:30,960
Speaker 1: need to get back to that. Yeah, that's where that's

1637
01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:32,760
Speaker 1: you know what. I can acknowledge that there was a

1638
01:37:32,760 --> 01:37:37,600
Speaker 1: golden age for Twitter, um when it was different and

1639
01:37:37,760 --> 01:37:40,000
Speaker 1: a little bit more playful because it was so much smaller,

1640
01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:42,720
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? But there's no way

1641
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:47,080
Speaker 1: to go back, and you've just moved forward, haven't you.

1642
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:50,360
Speaker 1: You've gone from Twitter to to Instagram now is your jam?

1643
01:37:50,400 --> 01:37:54,200
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Well? I I enjoyed. I still use

1644
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:59,720
Speaker 1: I use all of the social meds my Instagram, my

1645
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:06,799
Speaker 1: my Tumbler, and my Twitter, uh and all for different things.

1646
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:08,839
Speaker 1: I still have a I still have a deep fondness

1647
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:11,360
Speaker 1: for Twitter. I don't I don't do anything with Facebook.

1648
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:14,920
Speaker 1: And I apologize y'all you snap chatting, No I didn't.

1649
01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:16,880
Speaker 1: I couldn't get into that. I couldn't add another thing

1650
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:20,160
Speaker 1: to my portfolio has already overburdened. And Facebook I have.

1651
01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:23,200
Speaker 1: You know, there's a Judge John Hodgeman Facebook page which

1652
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:26,760
Speaker 1: is wonderfully maintained by Max fund. There's an official John

1653
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:31,599
Speaker 1: Hodgman fan page which is wonderfully maintained by a fan

1654
01:38:31,640 --> 01:38:34,040
Speaker 1: of mine, Benjamin and San Francisco, and I'm grateful to

1655
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:36,360
Speaker 1: him for it. And all of my social medias feed

1656
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:38,280
Speaker 1: into those things. And if you're on Facebook and you

1657
01:38:38,280 --> 01:38:40,080
Speaker 1: want to follow him, you can find him or whatever.

1658
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:46,360
Speaker 1: But but my social media sort of declination is Instagram

1659
01:38:46,360 --> 01:38:48,920
Speaker 1: to Tumbler to Twitter. But sometimes I just get deep

1660
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:51,320
Speaker 1: into Twitter again because just for the old times, you

1661
01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:53,400
Speaker 1: know what I mean. You want you on Fishbob, you on?

1662
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:56,680
Speaker 1: Are you on deck chair? Am I? Am I on

1663
01:38:56,760 --> 01:38:59,800
Speaker 1: toggle Switch, am I on and I on matchbook car,

1664
01:39:00,439 --> 01:39:04,360
Speaker 1: am I on Cybord gape Right, I'm just subscribing. Am

1665
01:39:04,360 --> 01:39:09,280
Speaker 1: I on Bottle of sand, am I on profit Cobe. So, John,

1666
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:11,040
Speaker 1: I think in closing, I think the one thing I

1667
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:14,200
Speaker 1: would ask is that you revise your your mantra to

1668
01:39:15,120 --> 01:39:22,200
Speaker 1: UH nostalgia can, for many people sometimes be a toxic impulse. Yeah,

1669
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:25,040
Speaker 1: good mantra. Check or it sounds like it should should

1670
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 1: be revised to something like nostalgia is the most toxic

1671
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:32,559
Speaker 1: impulse society as a whole can engage in. Oh. I

1672
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:39,080
Speaker 1: like that one, Josh, Sorry, Chucks, that's a nice full sentence.

1673
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:42,840
Speaker 1: It needs some work. I'm gonna go on fish Bob,

1674
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:46,439
Speaker 1: but I stand behind it. Thanks John, Thank you guys.

1675
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:48,160
Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure to talk to you. You know.

1676
01:39:48,360 --> 01:39:51,680
Speaker 1: You know I'm such a supporter of UH stuff. You

1677
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:54,400
Speaker 1: should know podcast, this very podcast, and I'm grateful always

1678
01:39:54,439 --> 01:39:57,000
Speaker 1: for the support that you offer me. Yeah, and we

1679
01:39:57,080 --> 01:39:59,759
Speaker 1: will see you in New York right at our Bellhouse shows,

1680
01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:02,040
Speaker 1: both of them. I assume, Yeah, you want to announce

1681
01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 1: when those are Uh. Yeah, well we already have already

1682
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:08,160
Speaker 1: sold out, you know June. Well, let me tell you

1683
01:40:08,200 --> 01:40:12,320
Speaker 1: about something that isn't sold out. June nine. Yeah, I

1684
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:15,400
Speaker 1: will be appearing at Largo at the Coronet. Oh we've

1685
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:19,439
Speaker 1: done that. It's fun, wonderful, wonderful theater. Uh. They're on

1686
01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:23,760
Speaker 1: La Sienega. Uh for a one night only performance of

1687
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:29,479
Speaker 1: my latest stand up, talking, funny, storytelling personal story show,

1688
01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:34,080
Speaker 1: which on vacation Land. Oh we've seen that. It's good,

1689
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:36,679
Speaker 1: thank you very much. Yeah, we we You guys saw

1690
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:39,680
Speaker 1: it in Atlanta when I was down there, and uh,

1691
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:42,760
Speaker 1: I am bringing it to Los Angeles for one night

1692
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:47,280
Speaker 1: only before the Max Fun Con, which is the thing

1693
01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:50,679
Speaker 1: that is involved with the Maximum Fun dot org podcast

1694
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:53,400
Speaker 1: network where you can hear my judge John Hodgman podcast.

1695
01:40:53,439 --> 01:40:55,160
Speaker 1: So those are all things you can find out about

1696
01:40:55,400 --> 01:40:58,160
Speaker 1: at John Hodgman dot com. Or just remember what I

1697
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:00,800
Speaker 1: said and remember it was the thing you've ever heard

1698
01:41:00,800 --> 01:41:03,000
Speaker 1: and you wish you could hear it again. Hey, and

1699
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:06,080
Speaker 1: you and I will be doing our annual trivia part

1700
01:41:06,360 --> 01:41:10,000
Speaker 1: bar trivia show at I know, but you know what, now,

1701
01:41:10,040 --> 01:41:13,680
Speaker 1: you're just making people sad because because it's all. So

1702
01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 1: that's all sold out. The only thing you can the

1703
01:41:16,280 --> 01:41:20,360
Speaker 1: only thing you can do, people, is buy tickets for

1704
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:23,920
Speaker 1: my show at Largo on June nine. It's the only

1705
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:26,360
Speaker 1: ticket available. Where do they Where do they go to

1706
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:29,080
Speaker 1: buy those? John? They go to John Hodgman dot com

1707
01:41:29,120 --> 01:41:31,360
Speaker 1: slash tour and there's a link directly to the Largo

1708
01:41:31,400 --> 01:41:33,880
Speaker 1: ticket page from there, or even I think it's Largo

1709
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:36,600
Speaker 1: hyphen l a dot do do what I said, Go

1710
01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:40,559
Speaker 1: to John Hodgman dot com slash tour. Yeah, and everyone

1711
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:44,200
Speaker 1: we can attest that that will be a very good show. Yeah,

1712
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:46,360
Speaker 1: and you can find John and all this social meds.

1713
01:41:47,120 --> 01:41:50,240
Speaker 1: I'm nostalgic for the time when we called it social media.

1714
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:54,960
Speaker 1: Well we're moving on. Oh good now it's not even

1715
01:41:54,960 --> 01:42:01,439
Speaker 1: called social meds now, it's called Sonny. All right, lovely

1716
01:42:01,479 --> 01:42:04,000
Speaker 1: to talk to you guys. I will uh, I will

1717
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:08,320
Speaker 1: sign off now. That is all I I chok. Was

1718
01:42:08,360 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 1: not expecting Jihad to make an appearance in that were you.

1719
01:42:11,479 --> 01:42:14,760
Speaker 1: I was not expecting Jihad, Donald Trump or Darth Maul

1720
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:17,599
Speaker 1: to make it as here. But thanks a huge amount

1721
01:42:17,640 --> 01:42:21,040
Speaker 1: to Hodgeman. We appreciate it for coming on. The next

1722
01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:23,040
Speaker 1: time we have some sort of disagreement, we'll have them back.

1723
01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:26,280
Speaker 1: Always a pleasure. Uh. And if you want to get

1724
01:42:26,320 --> 01:42:28,960
Speaker 1: in touch with this in the meantime, you can tweet

1725
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:31,080
Speaker 1: to us at s Y s K podcast. You can

1726
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:33,760
Speaker 1: join us on Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know.

1727
01:42:34,000 --> 01:42:36,120
Speaker 1: You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at

1728
01:42:36,120 --> 01:42:38,240
Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us

1729
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:40,080
Speaker 1: at our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know

1730
01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:48,160
Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

1731
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:57,000
Speaker 1: Does it how stuff Works dot com.