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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: Hi Wanha here, I'm excited to bring you a conversation

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Speaker 2: we had in Singapore earlier this week in front of

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Speaker 2: a live audience. This conversation has been edited and condensed.

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Speaker 2: Hope you enjoy it. Hello everyone, welcome to the special

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Speaker 2: edition of The Big Take Asia the US China Rivalry

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Speaker 2: in the Trump Era. It's only been, if you can

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Speaker 2: believe it, eight weeks since US President Donald Trump took

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Speaker 2: office again, and we've been confronted with a slew of

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Speaker 2: executive orders and policy moves that have royaled markets and

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Speaker 2: stemied businesses. And of course a lot of these moves,

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Speaker 2: especially those focused on trade, have serious ramifications here in Asia,

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Speaker 2: and they've dramatically increased this competition between the US and China.

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Speaker 2: To help us unpack how this is playing out for

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Speaker 2: the two economic super and the world, please help me

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Speaker 2: welcome a great panel speakers to the stage. So we've

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Speaker 2: got with us Nancy Cook, who is senior national political correspondent,

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Speaker 2: who joins us from Washington, d C. And John lou

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Speaker 2: who oversees Bloomberg's Greater China coverage based in Beijing. We've

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Speaker 2: got Tim O'Brien Bloomberg Opinions Senior executive editor based in

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Speaker 2: New York, and next to him Shuley Wrenn. She's the

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Opinion columnist who covers markets in China out of

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Speaker 2: Hong Kong. Tim, by the way, is also the author

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Speaker 2: of Trump Nation, The Art of Being the Donald, and

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Speaker 2: he's fantastic stories that he's been telling us about his

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Speaker 2: time with Donald. Welcome to Singapore, you guys. Well, since

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Speaker 2: we're in Singapore and food is such a big element

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Speaker 2: of the culture, right, we love the Hawker centers. I

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Speaker 2: think this very first question is appropriate to this place.

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Speaker 2: If US China relations were dish, what dish would it be?

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Speaker 2: Let me start with Shuley down there.

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Speaker 3: I guess I have to star wars Harpot. Everybody is

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Speaker 3: at a table. One guest didn't ask everyone else and

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Speaker 3: turn on the heat, and that you have spices splattered

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Speaker 3: everywhere on everyone's face. This is what I think of

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Speaker 3: very appropriate.

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Speaker 2: Tim.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if sweet and sour pork is an

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Speaker 4: American idea of what a good Chinese dish is, so

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Speaker 4: I might be stepping on my American toes and bring

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Speaker 4: this up, but I think sweet and sour pork is

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Speaker 4: useful because I think a strategy for dealing with Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump is, whether you're looking at trade or diplomacy, is

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Speaker 4: are you sweet with him? Or are you sour with him?

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Speaker 4: And I think people have learned over the years that

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Speaker 4: you get a little more out of him with sweetness

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Speaker 4: than with being sour, even though he gives other countries

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Speaker 4: and diplomats and investors a lot of reasons to be sour.

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Speaker 2: Very nice, thank you, very tasty insights. I think this

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Speaker 2: is also a good time to take you behind the

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Speaker 2: scenes of how we produce the podcast every week. So

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Speaker 2: we're going to cue up the music. Let's go. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha.

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Speaker 2: Every week we take you inside some of the world's

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Speaker 2: biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons and

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Speaker 2: businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today in the show,

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Speaker 2: live from Singapore, the US China rivalry in the Trump era.

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Speaker 2: How are Trump's policies playing out in Asia? And is

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Speaker 2: the US creating a vacuum for power and influence on

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Speaker 2: the world stage that allows China to step up? Nancy,

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Speaker 2: I want to start with you to get some perspective

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Speaker 2: because you have sat down with Donald Trump in mar

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Speaker 2: A Lago for a one on one interview, and you've

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Speaker 2: covered him since twenty fifteen. What's different this time around,

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Speaker 2: you think when it comes to the US China relationship

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Speaker 2: and rivalry.

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Speaker 1: So I think President Trump this time is a much

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Speaker 1: more sort of self assured and confident leader than he

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Speaker 1: was when he first came into office. He has a

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Speaker 1: much better understanding of the levers of power in the

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Speaker 1: United States and how to use them. And I think

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Speaker 1: people have been surprised that he is acting and moving

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Speaker 1: so quickly. I think he has very firmly held beliefs

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Speaker 1: on things like trade, and then is more ideologically flexible

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Speaker 1: on things like what the Chinese relationship looks like. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: what I'm watching, particularly in China is that I still

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Speaker 1: think he has He always likes to have a team

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Speaker 1: of rivals around him a little bit on different policy areas.

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Speaker 1: So there's sort of advisors, economic advisors competing to have

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Speaker 1: his ear on trade, and they have competing agendas. And

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Speaker 1: the same is true of foreign policy. There is not

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Speaker 1: one person that's going to be in charge of setting

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Speaker 1: the course for what the US China relationship looks like

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Speaker 1: there's different foreign policy people competing, whether that's the Secretary

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Speaker 1: of State Marco Rubio or the National Security Advisor of

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Speaker 1: Mike Waltz. And so everybody is trying to jockey and

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Speaker 1: find their place, and that will be very influential as

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Speaker 1: they think about how to approach China and whatever they're

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Speaker 1: going to do there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's also a great starting point

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Speaker 2: to also talk about itself. And I mean, if Trump

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Speaker 2: is different this time around, how is she president? She

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Speaker 2: also different?

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Speaker 5: The difference now is president She and China are in

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Speaker 5: a different position. The economy is in a weaker position,

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Speaker 5: there are more headwinds, there's the property market. So I

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Speaker 5: think Beijing is trying to act in a more considered way,

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Speaker 5: where maybe in the first term there was wolf warrior diplomacy.

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Speaker 5: I think there is an effort to be more measured

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Speaker 5: in its response. I mean, the ultimate question that I

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Speaker 5: think everybody in Beijing is trying to figure out is

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Speaker 5: what does President Trump want?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly that's what we've seen so far. Tim in DC,

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Speaker 2: in New York in the US, do people understand what

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Speaker 2: Trump is trying to achieve? I mean, you spent time

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Speaker 2: with him. What is a sense of the endgame here

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Speaker 2: from what we've seen so far.

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Speaker 4: You know, it was interesting, Juan, when you were giving

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Speaker 4: the introduction and you said, it's only been eight weeks,

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Speaker 4: but it seems like eight years. Because I think that's

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Speaker 4: a universal reaction to this, for flurry of activity from Trump,

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Speaker 4: wherever you are, and I think for people who are

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Speaker 4: feeling confused about it, or threatened by it, or just

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Speaker 4: wondering where it's headed. I think it's useful to try

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Speaker 4: to put all of that in context. A meaningful portion

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Speaker 4: of it is performative. Trump prides himself on being a

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Speaker 4: man of action and a disruptor. He is typically not.

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Speaker 4: He doesn't put his hands on the steering wheel. His

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Speaker 4: trade policies are not coming from a sophisticated place, that

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Speaker 4: is not coming from an understanding of how markets or

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Speaker 4: economies or business growth develop. It is a blunt tool

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Speaker 4: that he thinks he can use to repatriate manufacturing back

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Speaker 4: to the United States.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've seen certainly a lot of zigzagging on trade

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Speaker 2: and tariffs, so of course were the first thing that

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Speaker 2: Trump jumped on, and Trump is now talking about imposing

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Speaker 2: broad reciprocal tariffs and additional sector specific tariffs April second.

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Speaker 2: That's just a few weeks away. Truly, when you look

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Speaker 2: at this through China's lens, I mean, Trump is obviously

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Speaker 2: using what some people call this weaponized uncertainty right to

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Speaker 2: bring businesses to closer to what he wants. Is China

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Speaker 2: buying any of that?

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Speaker 3: I think China has realized that the US Trump is

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Speaker 3: serious about rebalancing the economy. I mean, before it worked

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Speaker 3: very well, right, US is the big consumer, China is

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Speaker 3: the big producer. China sells products into the US and

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Speaker 3: then with the trade surplus day in turn by US treasures.

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Speaker 3: It worked very well. And Trump just doesn't want that.

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Speaker 3: He wants the US society to be more producers based.

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Speaker 3: And for China, they have realized that is done deal,

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Speaker 3: and what they're trying to do these days is to

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Speaker 3: turn China into a more consumer based economy. We all

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Speaker 3: know Chinese consumers don't spend, right, and they're trying to

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Speaker 3: encourage consumers to spend or if they still try to

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Speaker 3: produce and sell, they will try to sell to the

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Speaker 3: global self. So that's what they've been trying to do.

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Speaker 2: But in the end, can these stear ups really break

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Speaker 2: Chinese grip on manufacturing at this point truly.

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Speaker 3: You know, there was no doubt China was a manufacturing powerhouse.

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Speaker 3: You look at like all the ev makers bid this year,

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Speaker 3: they're putting the autonomous driving technology into the cards without

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Speaker 3: raising price. It's not just the price point. It's not

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Speaker 3: that Chinese products are cheap, they're just more useful. But

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Speaker 3: the narrative a year or two ago was like, basically,

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Speaker 3: there is a new technological upgrade called AI, and the

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Speaker 3: China is being locked out. So the next decade forward,

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Speaker 3: China will.

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Speaker 2: Not get that.

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Speaker 3: And what we're seeing with deep Seek is that actually

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Speaker 3: China is not being locked down.

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Speaker 5: And then it's not just AI.

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Speaker 3: They're talking also about robotics, bringing AI features into robotics,

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Speaker 3: and I think US has a lot of things to

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Speaker 3: catch up on. And also like a lot of Chinese

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Speaker 3: companies think that this is a great opportunity. That Trump

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Speaker 3: is distracted and unfocused, and Elon Musk is also in focused.

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Speaker 3: I mean does he even run Tesla anymore? Right? And

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Speaker 3: BID is coming in. Shall me used to be a

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Speaker 3: Spark film maker and now they are making pretty high

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Speaker 3: end electric vehicles and the smartphones. They are taking on

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Speaker 3: Tesla and the Apple, so a lot of Chinese companies

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Speaker 3: actually think this is an opportunity. So then tim is

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Speaker 3: this whole focus on bringing back manufacturing to the US.

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Speaker 3: Is that a bit shortsighted?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think when you ask about what's his endgame,

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Speaker 4: has this mercant dealist view of how economies function and

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Speaker 4: how political power is wielded. You know, I think it's

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Speaker 4: always a mistake to talk about what Trump's strategy is

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Speaker 4: because he's not a strategic thinker. He's emotional, he's visceral,

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Speaker 4: but he has very clear goals and I think essentially

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Speaker 4: what they are right now is an economic hegemony for

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Speaker 4: the US and political hegemony for himself. So I think

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Speaker 4: one of the reasons he's dangerous politically in the United

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Speaker 4: States is he's trying to undermine institutions in the US

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Speaker 4: that would be checks on his own political hegemony, the courts,

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Speaker 4: the media, universities, is political opponents. And then he've views

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Speaker 4: political agemony as the US having its own defined sphere

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Speaker 4: of influence that is essentially the Americas, and he doesn't

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Speaker 4: want Europe or China interfering with that, and so he

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Speaker 4: will latch onto any tools that allow him to get there.

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Speaker 4: And then I think, you know, in terms of Trump himself,

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Speaker 4: he enjoys creating chaos because it keeps his audience and

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Speaker 4: his opponents back on their heels, and it allows him

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Speaker 4: to be in control of the narrative. I've covered Trump

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Speaker 4: since nineteen ninety in various forms, and I was with

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Speaker 4: him at mar A Lago once. We golfed together and

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Speaker 4: we came off the course and he had a brand

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Speaker 4: new yellow Ferrari in the driveway, and he looked at

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Speaker 4: me and he said, do you want to go for

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Speaker 4: a ride in it together? And I said sure. So

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Speaker 4: we hop in the car and it had a paddle

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Speaker 4: shifters on the steering wheel that he didn't know how

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Speaker 4: to use. So he was grinding the gears out on

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Speaker 4: the car, on this four hundred and fifty thousand dollars

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Speaker 4: car as we drove to downtown Palm Beach, and we

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Speaker 4: pulled up to a stoplight and the windows of the

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Speaker 4: car were all dark, and so no one could see

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Speaker 4: who was in the car. And when we stopped at

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Speaker 4: the stoplight, he goes, watch this. Trump said to me,

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Speaker 4: watch this, and then he put the windows down, and

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Speaker 4: everyone on the sidewalk stopped and pointed at the car

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Speaker 4: and said, look, it's Donald Trump. And then he put

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Speaker 4: the windows back up, and he looked at me and

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Speaker 4: he said, isn't that cool? And this is what he's

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Speaker 4: doing with the world right now. He's essentially using the

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Speaker 4: United States as like a giant ferrari, and he's pulling

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Speaker 4: up to these various situations and putting the windows down,

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Speaker 4: whether it's berating Zelenski in the Oval office, or courting

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Speaker 4: Putin or embracing tariffs.

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Speaker 2: Certainly keeping us busy in the news business. I want

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Speaker 2: to talk about the markets real quick, because the US

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Speaker 2: doc market's been sinking in reaction to tariffs and recession concerns. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: you've got China's market staying strong. Analysts are talking about

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Speaker 2: what they call a she put, this idea that the

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Speaker 2: Chinese government is going to do everything it can to

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Speaker 2: achieve this five percent growth target. There's certainly no talk

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Speaker 2: of a Trump put at the moment. What are the

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Speaker 2: reactions on both sides of the Pacific telling us about

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Speaker 2: what investors are thinking and feeling.

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Speaker 1: The US businesses are panic gaing right now. I bet

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Speaker 1: you know a number of US companies, everyone from McDonald's

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Speaker 1: that makes their French fries and canola oil that comes

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Speaker 1: from Canada to the big US automakers. They're calling the

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Speaker 1: White House flipping out about the tariffs. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: stock market did so well at the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: first seven weeks, let's say, or six weeks, and all

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Speaker 1: that wealth has been erased already. And the other thing

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Speaker 1: that's changed from last time is that Republicans on the

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Speaker 1: Hill just really have acquiesced him entirely and are very

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Speaker 1: afraid to publicly criticize him. So I think that what

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Speaker 1: will happen is if the stock market continues to slide

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Speaker 1: and we do seem like we're headed towards a recession,

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Speaker 1: then I think he will be less popular among Republicans,

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Speaker 1: among donors, among businesses, and then maybe he will, of

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Speaker 1: course correct. But he is really full steam ahead right now.

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Speaker 2: This must be so hard to plan at this point

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Speaker 2: when you've got such erratic news coming out of the

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Speaker 2: White House and erratic moves. Can businesses really plan at.

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Speaker 1: The no, And that is the message that they're telling

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Speaker 1: the White House. But part of the problem is that's

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Speaker 1: sort of unclear who is totally in charge with the

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Speaker 1: US China sort of strategy. The same is true on

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Speaker 1: economics and tariffs. There are a number of Trump advisors

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Speaker 1: and cabinet members who have their hands in tariffs, and

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Speaker 1: so it's just been a real sort of toss up

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Speaker 1: about what happens with this policy.

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Speaker 4: So this unpredictability. Can you really invest or build plant

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Speaker 4: and equipment if you can't have a five year plan

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Speaker 4: because he's knocking you back on your feet every week

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Speaker 4: with a different policy position. That's going to, I think

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Speaker 4: be a present factor for quite a while, and I

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Speaker 4: don't think the press or the business community will regulate that.

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Speaker 4: As a deal maker, he's in charge of these processes.

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Speaker 4: He has never been a great deal maker historically. In

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Speaker 4: his business career, he presided over six corporate bankruptcies. He

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Speaker 4: almost went personally bankrupt, but his father bailed him out

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Speaker 4: before that happened. And within the business community in the

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Speaker 4: United States, he was regarded as a cartoon character and

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Speaker 4: routinely got taken to the clean by better deal makers.

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Speaker 4: Robert bass on the sale of the Plaza hotel. You

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Speaker 4: could go on and on down a whole list of deals.

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Speaker 4: But he's had this myth because of the Apprentice, that

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Speaker 4: he can fix complicated situations, that he's got the analytic

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Speaker 4: and intuitive skills to do that, and he's lacked them

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Speaker 4: since he was seven.

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Speaker 2: After the break, the consequences of the Trump era on Asia,

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Speaker 2: will Asian economies become collateral damage in the wake of

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Speaker 2: the trade war, and how can China capitalize on this moment?

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Speaker 2: The ramifications of a US China trade war go beyond

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Speaker 2: just these two superpowers. And while Asia isn't directly targeted

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Speaker 2: by the latest US tariffs, the region is very trade dependent.

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Speaker 2: I asked our panel about what the impact would be

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Speaker 2: on the region. Here's Bloomberg's shulely Ren.

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Speaker 3: Again, Singapore has done very well because of China's capital

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Speaker 3: offlow in the last couple of years tremendously. I think

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Speaker 3: a Viennam like especially North Vietnam, has been doing very

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Speaker 3: well because it's a very natural China plus one destination

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Speaker 3: right like it's very close to mainland China's industry catalog.

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Speaker 3: And then Vietnamese people are hard working and entrepreneurial and educated.

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Speaker 3: But I do feel that countries like Vietnam had to

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Speaker 3: stay under Trump's radar because Vietnam believe or not, runs

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Speaker 3: the third and largest trade deficit with the US after

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Speaker 3: Mexico and China. So one day, if Trump wakes up

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Speaker 3: and say, wait a minute, you're using Vietnam to explore

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Speaker 3: your stuff into US, then I think Vietnam just has

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Speaker 3: to be very careful.

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Speaker 2: Nervous times, certainly for everyone. I want to pivot to

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Speaker 2: foreign policy. Trump has imposed tariffs on North American neighbors.

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Speaker 2: He had a shouting match with Ukrainian President Voladimir Zelinski

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Speaker 2: in the Oval Office. He's threatening tariffs on Europe. These

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Speaker 2: are the traditional allies of the US. All of that,

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Speaker 2: of course, must be having a very chilling effect for

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Speaker 2: America's friends here in Asia, from Taiwan to South Korea

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Speaker 2: to Japan. And I want to ask you, do you

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Speaker 2: think she sees this as an opportunity, especially here in Asia,

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Speaker 2: but around the world. How can China capitalize on this

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Speaker 2: moment when the US is being erratic, turning its back

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Speaker 2: on friends and allies.

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Speaker 5: I think Beijing sees this as an opportunity to advance

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Speaker 5: its interests around the world. If you listen to Chinese

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Speaker 5: officials now, they want the world to see Beijing or

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Speaker 5: see China as an anchor of stability in a chaotic

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Speaker 5: world as a result of American and Trump administration policies.

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Speaker 5: And it sounds like the administration has taken its eyes

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Speaker 5: off the ball a little bit, like it seems like

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Speaker 5: there's so much else going on. And if that is

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Speaker 5: the case, then yeah, then she has an opportunity, right

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Speaker 5: If the US is too busy thinking about Russia or

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Speaker 5: the Middle East, then China will have more room to

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Speaker 5: do things and to try and advance its own interests.

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Speaker 1: I also think that as Trump sheds sort of conventional

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Speaker 1: allies in Europe or all these different places, there's going

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Speaker 1: to be like a whole new reordering of global superpowers.

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Speaker 1: And I think that presents an opportunity for China, don't

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Speaker 1: you think so? Or maybe not.

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Speaker 5: Someone described the situation to me as Trump is digging

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Speaker 5: the world all the pieces and throwing them up in

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Speaker 5: the air, and everybody's trying to pick things up now.

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Speaker 5: And this person said, China's going to end up picking

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Speaker 5: up more pieces than it had before he got thrown up.

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Speaker 5: I think there's a really good chance that will happen.

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Speaker 1: And Trump, also, just to add it quickly, is an isolationist.

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Speaker 1: He does not think that the US needs to police

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Speaker 1: the world. He really wants to focus on stuff at home.

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Speaker 1: When I interviewed him at mar A Lago, you know,

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Speaker 1: his comments on Taiwan were really some of the most

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Speaker 1: striking ones in the interview. We sat with him for

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Speaker 1: an hour and a half and he was basically like,

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Speaker 1: what has Taiwan done for the US lately? He said

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Speaker 1: that he was like, I don't see what they're doing

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Speaker 1: for us. You know, they've stolen our jobs, Like why

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Speaker 1: should we protect them? And I think you know what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing happening with Ukraine and sort of his unwillingness

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Speaker 1: to defend Ukraine or pull back intelligence there, pull back money.

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Speaker 1: If I were living in Taiwan, I would be fairly

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Speaker 1: freaked out.

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Speaker 5: Taiwan's Defense minister, right after the blow up in the

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Speaker 5: Oval office with President Zelenski, had this quote I thought

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Speaker 5: was really interesting and I'm paraphrasing, but essentially said, we

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Speaker 5: realize that when talking with the US, you cannot discuss

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Speaker 5: values with the US without also addressing national interests, which

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Speaker 5: is like very different from what Taiwan's officials were saying

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Speaker 5: during the Biden administration, which was all about shared.

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Speaker 4: Values you know, I remember this conversation I want to

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Speaker 4: here with that screenwriter about his process, and he said

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Speaker 4: he would write scenes out on index cards, throw them

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Speaker 4: into the middle of the floor, and then rearrange them

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Speaker 4: to see what works. And that's essentially Trump's foreign policy.

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Speaker 4: And the danger with that is I have to believe

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Speaker 4: China and Russia are shocked at how much progress they've

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Speaker 4: made over the last two months without having after decades,

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Speaker 4: decades of strategically and economically and militarily trying to find

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Speaker 4: ways to get around the US or supersede the US,

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Speaker 4: and Trump has just walked up in a few short

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Speaker 4: weeks and delivered to them on a platter. But it

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Speaker 4: also isn't a sophisticated understanding of what we all get

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Speaker 4: when we have shared defenses, which it creates stability, it

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Speaker 4: creates economic opportunity, It allows people to spend domestically in

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Speaker 4: their economies on things other than defense, and it encourages

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Speaker 4: integration that is safer and more prosperous for the world.

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Speaker 4: And that's what's informing his defenestration of USAID, because he

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Speaker 4: doesn't understand how American soft power functions in the world.

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Speaker 4: And these come from hard won lessons about how you

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Speaker 4: successfully achieve peace and prosperity, and he grew up. John

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Speaker 4: and I were talking on less earlier. His father made

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Speaker 4: his fortune building subsidized housing for working class Americans, and

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Speaker 4: he ended up cheating the federal government during the nineteen

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Speaker 4: forties and fifties, and he got kicked out of that program.

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Speaker 4: And then he did a similar thing in New York State,

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Speaker 4: and he was getting funds from New York State for

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Speaker 4: housing development, and he did the same thing. He was overbilling.

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Speaker 4: He was creating faith companies, and he got kicked out

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Speaker 4: of the New York State programs. And he essentially resigned

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Speaker 4: after that or retired rather from building. But within the family,

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Speaker 4: they never said Dad got in trouble because he was

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Speaker 4: dealing from the government. What they said was the government

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Speaker 4: came and took Dad's properties away. The government came and

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Speaker 4: took his candy away. And that informs Trump's view of

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Speaker 4: emigration and informs Trump's view of foreign policy. It's beware,

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Speaker 4: someone's going to come and take things away from you,

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Speaker 4: and if you don't protect those things, you're a sucker

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Speaker 4: and you will be ripped off. And the only way

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Speaker 4: to do that is to isolate and put walls up

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Speaker 4: and defend yourself. And that's a perilous calcil in the

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Speaker 4: world we live in.

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Speaker 2: We're really talking about re ordering of alliances and friendships

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Speaker 2: and coalitions. Right at this point, since we don't have

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Speaker 2: much time left, I wonder if we can just stare

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Speaker 2: into an imaginary crystal ball. Right, we're twenty twenty nine,

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Speaker 2: four years from now, Right, what does the world look like,

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Speaker 2: and Asian in particular, four years after Trump?

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Speaker 3: I would just talk about the development of an economy

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Speaker 3: after World War Two in Asia. The economies that have

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Speaker 3: done very well are mostly driven by export, right, export

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Speaker 3: oriented economy. So how do the rest of the Asian

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Speaker 3: economies that have now reached the upper middle income level

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Speaker 3: become rich themselves? They have to think of a model

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Speaker 3: that's other than exports.

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Speaker 4: I think there's a happy and a sad answer to that.

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Speaker 4: And I'd hate to end on a sad note for everybody,

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Speaker 4: but I'll start with the sad and then go to

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Speaker 4: the happy. The sad note is that I think what

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Speaker 4: you're seeing around isolationism and predation continues on that, and

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Speaker 4: we have a world in which people have armed up

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Speaker 4: and trading sufferers and diplomacy suffers, and again we're in

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Speaker 4: an earlier century with the fallout all that entails. I

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Speaker 4: think the happy outcome is that people understand why it's

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Speaker 4: important to stand up for institutions and values and processes

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Speaker 4: that we need to have civilized societies and push back

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Speaker 4: against that. But I think we're on a knife edge.

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Speaker 4: I think we are in a very historically perilous place

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Speaker 4: right now.

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Speaker 5: I think Asia will be more Chinese, like I think

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Speaker 5: you're going to have Chinese electric cars and lots of

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Speaker 5: markets around Asia. I think you'll have people in Asia

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Speaker 5: using deep seek and Chinese Ai. And then I think

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Speaker 5: when people travel from Singapore to New York, they'll have

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Speaker 5: to get like completely different devices because none of those

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Speaker 5: things will exist in the US. I think Europe is

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Speaker 5: really hard to read at the moment where that goes.

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Speaker 5: But I do feel like this four years will see

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Speaker 5: China being more of fluential in Asia.

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Speaker 1: I think in four years it will be like Russia,

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Speaker 1: China and the US sort of competing against one another

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Speaker 1: and then sometimes cutting deals with each other, but also

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Speaker 1: trying to sort of woo either through force potentially in

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Speaker 1: Russia's case, or Trump with Greenland or the Panama Canal

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Speaker 1: sort of competing with one another, but also trying to

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Speaker 1: select new allies or new territories, each to their own side.

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Speaker 1: And I think those will be the three accesses that

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Speaker 1: I'll be watching.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly a new world order they were seeing forming

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Speaker 2: right now. With that, I want to thank my wonderful panelists.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for your lovely and insightful thoughts. I think

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Speaker 2: with that we're going to call it a rap And

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Speaker 2: if you enjoy this discussion, please subscribe to The Big

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Speaker 2: Take Asia. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 2: and we'll see you next week. This is The Big

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Speaker 2: Take Asia from Bloomberg News.

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Speaker 4: I'm wan Ha.

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Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Young Young and Naomi. It

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Speaker 2: was edited by Grace Jennings, ed Quist, Patti Hirsch, and

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Speaker 2: John Leu. It was fact checked by Naomi and mixed

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Speaker 2: and sound designed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Hugia. Our

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Speaker 2: senior producer is Naomi Shaven. Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso.

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Speaker 2: Our executive producer is Nicole Miemsterboer. Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's

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Speaker 2: head of Podcasts. Thanks for listening. See you next time