WEBVTT - Luke’s Diner: A Sweet Surprise 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:04.080 I am all in again. 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:22.599 Let's do Luke's Diner with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast. 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.919 Everybody Scott Patterson, I Am all and Podcast, one of 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:30.080 eleven productions iHeart Radio Media. iHeart Podcast Luke's Diner one 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:35.040 on one or two on one interview with some incredible women. 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:42.360 Here Georgetown Cupcakes founders. And here they are Catherine Coaleenis Berman, 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:48.400 Sophie Kalinas La Montaigne, the powerhouse duo behind Georgetown Cupcakes 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:53.600 and the star of TLC's DC Cupcakes. Inspired by their grandmother, Yes, 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:58.440 it's family, they opened their first bakery on Valentine's Day 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.160 two thousand and eight. It quickly became a global destination 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.120 for cupcake lovers. And let me tell you, let me 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.119 do a testimonial right here and now I had one 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:13.320 this morning because these lovely ladies sent me two cases, 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:19.280 two cases, vacuum packed, sealed, a cooled. I mean, what 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:23.080 a process that must be at the at the at 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:27.120 the fulfillment center and just buttoned down and tight. And 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:28.840 I opened it up and I got through it, and 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.800 I read the instructions and I knew how special an 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.840 experienced this was. You guys thought of everything good on 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:39.600 you for that. Uh, And I I took the lid 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:41.520 off and I looked down on twelve of the most 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.360 beautiful things I've ever seen in food form, and I 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:49.480 decided on the chocolate. Chocolate, and man, I think I 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.720 ate that thing and maybe three bites it just it 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.720 just I just wolfed it down. It was wonderful. So 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.840 they're they're best selling authors, they're TV personal, they're proud 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:06.040 supporters of children's health through their work with Make a Wish, 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.520 a cause near and dear to my own heart. I've 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.520 been involved with them for twenty five years. What a 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:15.679 great organizations. And we just recapped season two, episode eight, 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.120 Gilmore Girls, the Ins and outs of in one of 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:24.040 my favorite favorite episodes, and we will be discussing cupcakes, 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:29.160 ladies and gentlemen. Ladies. You sent me the cupcakes, and 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.880 I told you what I thought. You both left corporate 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.000 jobs to open up a cupcake shop during a recession. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.240 I mean, what gave you the guts to do that? 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:42.760 And were there moments when you thought what have we done? 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.360 Definitely? So Sophie and I, like you said, are sisters. 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.200 We grew up in a Greek household. So both of our 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.400 parents were from Greece. Our grandparents were from Greece, and 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.079 like most Greek families immigrant families, our grandparents actually lived 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.240 down the street from us, so when our parents went 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.520 to work, they would drop us off at our grandparents' house. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.840 And so Sophie and I were pretty much raised like 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:09.520 our formative years by our grandmother, who baked everything from scratch. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.600 I mean, they had a huge garden in their backyard. 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.200 Buying things at a grocery store was a very foreign 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.320 concept for them because they grew up on a farm 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.000 in Greece. And so Sophie I would follow around the 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.960 kitchen when we were little girls, mimicking her making all 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.359 of her cakes or Greek desserts, her breads. And we 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.480 have this dream when we were very young of opening 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:32.800 a bakery. And I remember telling our parents and they said, 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.200 are you crazy. People in our country are trying to 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.200 get out of the bakery. We came to this country 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.640 so you could be a doctor or a lawyer, work 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.440 for a big company, and so they were totally set 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:46.520 against it, and we were very We were very sad 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:48.520 because that was sort of like a dream that we 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.640 kind of held onto. And even though you know, we 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:52.400 went to college. Sophie ended up studying well like other 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.760 biology in college. I ended up studying politics. We sort 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:57.920 of went on our different career paths. Were still kind 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:02.080 of held onto this dream of owning this bakery inspired 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.280 by our grandmother, and it came at a very weird 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.320 time in our lives. When you're right, the recession had 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.440 just hit. We could not get a bank loan to 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.400 start our business whatsoever. So we were in our late twenties, 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.000 early thirties at that point. This has been it's been 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.320 seventeen years we've been doing this, and I remember we 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.400 had this frank conversation with each other where we said, listen, 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:25.600 we know that over fifty percent of food businesses failed 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.080 within the first year. So are we okay if we 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.400 do this and we completely fail, starting all over again, 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:33.760 knowing that we were going to max out all of 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:35.600 our personal credit cards to get this thing off the ground, 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.160 use like the life savings that we had, which wasn't 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.520 that much, because you know, we weren't we were late twenties, 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.040 early thirties. We both looked at each other and we said, yeah, 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.560 we're willing to do it because we were afraid of 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.719 always wondering what if, you know, what if it didn't happen, 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.000 Like what if it did work out and we did succeed, 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.640 So we took the plunge in two thousand and eight. 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.120 I remember we we had like no money left when 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.400 we first opened the business, and we wanted to make 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.120 a little sign in the window to say we were 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.400 opening on Valentine's Day. We passed the health inspection and 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:09.760 we're like, we got to open the next day when 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.240 this tiny signed and so, you know, people came that 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.000 first day because it was Valentine's Day and they were 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.040 walking down the street in Georgetown we're located. We were 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.640 located our first shop and this quaint little street in 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.240 Georgetown in Washington, d C. And we had a line 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.720 and people actually came the first day, but we thought, okay, 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.400 it's just the first day and it was Valentine's Day. 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:30.159 Tomorrow will be different. It'll be very slow because it 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.200 was kind of chaotic the first day. But the second 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.800 day more people came, the third day, the fourth day, 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:39.760 and we were very shocked and surprised that people actually came, 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.600 and in a weird way, we really weren't set up 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.160 for having that much business. Early on, because it's just 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.360 the two of us and our mother who came to 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.560 help us for the weekend and ended up staying forever. 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.160 She never left, she's still here. 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.359 You know what that But that's I think that's a 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.640 plus because that's really charming. If you're standing in line 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.720 and you know that it's a brand new business and 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.520 the owners are overwhelmed, I mean, that would give me 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.160 the incentive to continue to support that business and wait 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.479 in line a little longer because you want to support 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.159 that business because you're so happy that they're experience that 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.680 you're experiencing this kind of success. I mean, if it's 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.880 all buttoned down and perfect and sort of you know, 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.000 I would I'm not say corporate, but maybe automated and 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:28.480 we expected this, you know, it's like kind of too 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.560 much of a corporate experience, but it's there's something very 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.320 small time charming about it that would make one people 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.680 want to completely support it and feel like they are 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:40.520 participating in the growth of this. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.200 And I do feel that that was sort of the 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.080 you know, the only advertising we had back then, it 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.200 was word of mouth, and honestly, I think that's the 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.440 best form of advertising, is someone has a great experience, 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.640 they tell like other people, and then those people want 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.360 to check it out too. So in that way we 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:58.359 were very lucky, although there were some customers who were 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:00.159 very upset at us in the beginning, and they would say, 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.760 what's going on in there? Do you only have two ovens? 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:04.080 And we always did. 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.880 Well. Scarcity is you know, it's it's good for a business, 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.360 you know, make them way run out when they get there, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:15.600 you know, that kind of thing. 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.520 From our perspective that we were scared because sometimes having 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.480 too much business at the beginning, it's just as bad 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.360 as having no business at all. We're not set up 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:23.960 for it. So I remember in the early days we 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.640 would pray for rain somedays, so please God let it rain, 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:29.680 because it was just the two of us and our 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:31.600 mom and didn't keep up. 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.240 So when did you realize that you needed Did you 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.160 bring on more help? Did you? When did you realize? 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.400 Was that pretty quick? It was within the first month 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:51.760 or so. 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.120 It was in the first month, and we actually had 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.720 one of the food editors from the Washington Post come 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.640 come knock on our door early one morning. I was 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.040 covered in like read velvet batter and I opened the 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:05.080 door and he's like, I'm from the Washington Post and 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.320 I want to do an article on this jop like 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:09.520 we've been seeing lines. And I said, I'm so sorry, 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.440 we can't let you in. I'm baking back here and 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.520 we get angry customers. I have to make sure that 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:17.840 I have and he's like, no, no, you don't understand. Like, 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:19.520 I'm from the Washington Post. I want to write a 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.080 feature article. And I was like, I understand, but I'm 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.160 really stressed out. I had to bake all these comments, so, 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:27.520 you know, in retrospect, that was like the dumbest thing 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.120 I could have ever done. But luckily he stayed. He 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.120 waited till we opened the doors. He came in, he 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.560 observed the chaos, our mother yelling at us mes serving 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:40.679 the customers, Sophie Frosting, and he wrote this article in 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.640 the Washington Post. And I think that was the first 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.360 major hit that we had gotten. This was back in 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.880 two thousand and eight when we first opened, within the 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.840 first couple of months, and then that brought in more people. 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.079 And then Frank Bruney, who at the time was one 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.400 of the food writers for the New York Times, the 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.480 restaurant critic, the restaurant critic had come in unbeknownst to us, 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:03.880 and they did a they called us for a fact checked, 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.440 and Sophie and I were panicking. We said, oh my god, 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:08.480 what if he had a horrible experience, Like we didn't 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:09.800 know what he was going to write. But he ended 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.480 up writing this glowing like little article on us, and 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.400 that kind of put us on the footy map. So 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.400 people give people from like New York coming this time around, 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:22.080 and we slowly had to start hiring more people, you know, 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:27.360 getting more ovens and slowly scaling it. And then the big, 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.199 the big thing for us was the television show. And 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.439 that came about in a very you know, uh, off 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.480 the beaten path kind of way, where a producer and 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.320 we're not from the TV world whatsoever, So we had 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.240 a television producer I guess was in line. He came 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.480 into the shop and he said what is this place? 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.480 And I was like, it's a cupcake bakery and he said, oh, 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.360 I thought they were just giving away free stuff. That's 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.600 why I stood in this lot. And he said this 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:55.480 place is crazy, like you all this place? And I said, yeah, 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.080 my sister and then my mother was like there and 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.600 he's like, do you mind if I film here for 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.280 a weekend. At that point in time, Sophie and I 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.840 had been doing like YouTube interviews with local college kids 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:09.920 and that kind of stuff. So we're like, yeah, sure, 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:11.800 come in, you can film for a weekend. And that 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:14.400 week it was a pretty chaotic weekend. We had some 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:18.240 wedding orders going up to New York, and unbeknownst to us, 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.760 you know when you're when you can mic on, you know, 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:22.800 even though the cameras are down, they can hear everything 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.040 you're saying everything. So they got some good footage and 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.760 I guess they had taken it to TLC, and before 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.160 we knew it, they had picked up the first season 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:32.839 of d C Cupcakes. So we had a film crew 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.800 kind of following us around and we did that for 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.400 three seasons with TLC, which was really a really great 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:43.200 experience for us because it really resonated with a lot 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.480 of young girls and their mothers too. It's a very 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.320 family friendly show. Sort of A sister showed a cake Boss. 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:50.920 I don't know if you remember that show, but that 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.400 and that really kind of brought even more people to 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:54.400 the Vittoria Baker. 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.720 So let me ask you this. As you were beginning 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:03.280 to experience the growth. What were the difficulties did you 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.240 run to some any sort of major like uh oh, 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:10.400 you know kind of because there's always bumps in the road, right. 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.760 I've had a coffee company for nine years and it 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.160 did not start out the way your business started out. 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.640 It started out with an utter disaster, and it seemed 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.679 like disaster after disaster, And so what were the first 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:28.160 what was the first real like uh oh moment when 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:29.240 you're as you're expanding. 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.040 For us, I think, like you said, every day, especially 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.200 early on, something would go wrong and we would be 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.280 like we would get buried down on ourselves and say, 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.920 when's this day gonna come where nothing goes wrong? And 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.559 then as an entrepreneury, risk that day doesn't exist. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.880 Doesn't exist, And once you make peace with. 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.719 That fact, you become a lot happier because we were 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:51.760 just it's a lot. It's day in and day out 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.079 of waking up with this thinking feeling in your stomach 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.000 and then you re is that is just part of 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.200 running a business. And so I don't know that there 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.080 was one major snaff who or roadbook. I think it 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.559 was day to day to day everything something would go 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.320 wrong and it's just being able to manage that and 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:08.680 get through that. I know at the very beginning, one 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.760 of the challenges we face actually turned into an opportunity 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:13.880 for us. So because we didn't ship our cupcakes when 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:15.440 we first started, like how we sent them to you, 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:17.520 but we had customers who were coming in from all 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:18.719 over saying, hey, I want to send you to my 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:20.000 friends in Texas. I want to send it to my 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.400 friends in California, and sorry, we don't ship. They would 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.640 literally take the pink box, wrote in an f X 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.320 or ups couch and put it in the meal and 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.480 the cupanies would are all jumbled up and realized, hey, listen, 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.640 like the there's a demand for this. People want to 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.960 send these cupcakes his gifts. We used bigger out how 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:37.360 to do this, or else they're going to end up 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.280 getting all tossed around and arrived like a jumble mess. 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.640 And so we took that you know experience, and we 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.200 designed some packaging. We really worked on it hard, and 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:48.840 we figured it a way to ship our cupcakes overnight 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:50.680 so that people that's them as nice gifts, you know. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.840 And so that was something like a roadblock we encounters. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:55.760 We could didn't do something our customers who wanted it. 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.200 We tried to listen to our customers. But I think 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:02.240 there's been seventeen years of that just failing learning from it. 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.240 We like to call them lessons learned, not it's not. 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.640 Failures, but you know, no learning opportunities. 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.000 They are and there's a law along the way. And 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.240 I think that, you know, for anybody we always say 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.600 this funny was interested in starting their own business, whether 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.840 it's you know, food business or whatever. It's it's kind 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.280 of it's scary and and I think it's the uncertainty 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:24.160 of it, because I think that a lot of people 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.440 and I think for us too, we just wanted to 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:30.240 be guaranteed a day where nothing went wrong, And like 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.800 Sophie said, it doesn't exist, and every day something and 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.600 sometimes be very taxing on you. Oh my god. Every 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.000 like there's always going to be something, and like Sophie said, 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.400 it's almost like you have to make peace with it 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.959 and somehow learn to like cope with all this uncertainty 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.600 and sort of this this feeling of like what's what's 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:51.680 it going to be today, What's going to happen today? 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.480 Let me ask you this, how many skews did you 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.360 start out with on day one. 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.080 I think they baked like eight flavors and now our 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:02.760 menu has over one hundred flavors. 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.120 But we took it was a slow process. 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.120 We kind of tried to like grow slowly. I mean, 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.319 we've been around a long time seventeen years, so it 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.240 wasn't like all overnight. Definitely wasn't a linear path that 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:16.000 we always call it a roller coaster. But over the 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.000 years we were able to figure out, how are we 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.080 going to make more, how are we going to experiment 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.760 with flavors. For us, that's one of the coolest parts 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:24.120 of our job, is like coming up with these new 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.160 flavors and expanding our menu. But at the same time, 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.200 we want to keep what makes our brand special. And 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.280 when people walk into the bakery, especially after seeing it 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.120 on a TV show. I think when people see something 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.840 on TV, they had this expectation and you want to 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:39.280 live up to it and you want to look them 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.000 to come in and say, wow, that place was as 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:42.880 school as I thought it would be. The staff was 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.360 as friendly, the cups were as amazing, and we want 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:46.560 them to be able to share that. The worst thing 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.040 that can happen is to come in there saying wow, 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:49.400 that was not what I thought it was going to 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.040 be and it was disappointing. So I think there's a firebar. 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.960 Sometimes we're on TV because people have this perception or 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.680 expectation and we want to meet it. 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:02.640 And this is your store, is your cupcake shops? A 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.240 place people come in and sit down and they can 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.960 get they can can they have coffee and tea as well? Ok? Yeah, okay, 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.480 all right, great? And how many what's the seating for? 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:13.440 How much? 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.680 Oh it's small. I think we have like four tables 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.400 inside and four outside. 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:19.280 So it's it's a cozy little place. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:25.200 Wat yeah, quaint Yeah, absolutely, And have you had have 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.880 you ever had thoughts of expanding the shops? 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:33.360 We did so for ten years before COVID. We had 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.840 shops in New York and in Boston, in LA and 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:38.600 we ran us for ten years ago. Def page just 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.840 flies by, and then after COVID we had to make 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:43.720 a decision or we're going to renew them or not. 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:46.680 And then we started shipping. So one thing that happened 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.920 during that's another problem is that COVID had these the 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.600 restaurant industry and everyone kind of, you know, just totally 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.080 freaked out, and for us, our shipping business really just 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.160 took off in a way we would not expect during 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.080 COVID because people we still wanted to celebrate from a 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.000 far and so we really kind of double down on 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.000 our shipping business and found that we can reach our 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.720 customers this way. And so I think, you know, like 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:13.040 like I said, these these problems are roadblocks turned into opportunities. 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.520 And for us, shipping was part of our business, but 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.720 it was like a huge part that after COVID and 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.560 during and AFTERCD it just became a huge, huge part. 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:22.040 And so we've really tried to. 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.080 Build that is this United States only a ship in 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:26.320 a candidate only. 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.640 To us because we do everything overnight. Maybe one day 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.640 we can go international. We have on time, we have 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.480 had times shipped international. People actually come into the shop 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.000 and like literally we'll take like you know, twenty dozen 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.040 back to like Dubai or all like people take the 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:39.840 cup exeterates. 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.080 They just put it on their private chat right exactly. 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.280 Yeah, actually so much so fun to see where they 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.560 go because people send us photos of their cupcakes in 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.000 all these places around the world, and it's as fun 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:51.760 for us. How far they make. 0:16:51.680 --> 0:17:04.720 It such a great success story. And now so are 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:09.960 you as engaged with the store as you have always been. 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:11.919 I mean, you're going there every day and you're spending 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:12.840 time there every day. 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.480 Sophie was just there. She just felt bad. 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.119 I literally just I think when you have a food business, 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.320 you have to stay in the weeds as owners, I think, 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:26.080 and Catherine and I are happiest when we're in the weeds, 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:27.960 to be honest, because you feel in touch and in 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.200 tune with what's going on. You're connected to your customers, 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.240 and we love it. And I think one of the 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.200 main reasons we started this business is because we wanted 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.600 to work together and live our dream. And it's not 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.760 something one, Hey, We're going to start something and try 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.119 to sell it a couple of years later and flip it. 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.959 I mean, for us, I can't. I don't know why 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:47.639 I would do if we weren't doing this, and I 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.760 can't I can't picture do anything else, especially without Catherine. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.800 So as sisters, it's been really rewarding and fun. I 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:55.200 mean it's hard. 0:17:55.400 --> 0:18:00.160 It's definitely trying it, you know some days, but overall, 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:02.000 you know, we love what we do, and I think 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:03.800 you kind of learn to like live in a chaos 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:05.920 like you just it's a constant set of chaos. 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.240 We always say, kind of like running a marathon that 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.160 never ends, because when you own a business, you can't 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.360 do at the opposite. You're taking it with you all 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.239 at all times. Right, But I think you know, it's 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:18.600 kind of like it was. You know, we have children, 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.520 but like this is kind of our first baby, really. 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.960 And sometimes the chaos is really exciting and other times 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:29.280 it's just a giant headache. It's either or. 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.480 And it's nice having a business with a sister in 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.720 that regard because you have someone as your support system. 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.960 If being an entrepreneur can be a very lonely experience 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.560 if you're doing it on your own, because it's very 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:42.880 intense the experiences. It's not for the faint a part. 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.760 We always say that because there's a few people understand 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:47.600 like what's going on in your head when you own 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.080 a business, and when you do with your sister, it's 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.160 like you have this buddy who's got your back, and 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.600 you know, we're able to have these like crazy fights 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.080 as sisters. We can talk to each other like the 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:01.960 way you can not talk to your coworker, and we 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:03.679 really make the best decisions for our business that way 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.760 because we don't have to worry about stepping on each 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:07.800 other's toes or how do I deliver this message? 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:09.320 We just say, like it is the feeling. 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.480 Yeah, it's like, you know, it's not for everyone to 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.560 Some people say I can never work with my sister, 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:16.320 and some for us. Some people it works for us, 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:17.520 it works, but it's not for everyone. 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:22.360 Right, did inflation hit your business? Did the costs? Yes? 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.679 So how did you deal with that and and maintain 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:26.520 your margins? 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:28.560 For us, the egg prices is the rise and the 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:32.399 eggs crazy because that's like that's a key ingredient in 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.560