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Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I think you need be a fountain of ideas. So

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Speaker 2: I write down everything. Anything that sounds insane, I still

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Speaker 2: write it down, I still pitch it. And I try

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Speaker 2: to create environments where anybody can say anything without any judgment.

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Speaker 2: And I think the best clients and the best relationships

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Speaker 2: are you've set that process up together where you've created

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Speaker 2: the environment for creativity to live.

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Speaker 3: I am Bob Pipman, and welcome to Math and Magic.

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Speaker 3: Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing. Today, we have someone

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Speaker 3: who has been at the center of the magic of

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Speaker 3: advertising and has been a creative leader in the advertising business,

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Speaker 3: from reimventing Burger King to the Fearless Girl statue of

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Speaker 3: Wall Street. He's Rob Riley, Global, Chief Creative Officer for WPP,

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Speaker 3: the massive global advertising, marketing and communications company. Rob started

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Speaker 3: out live ast Robert grew up in New Jersey, played soccer,

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Speaker 3: was in a band, was a fighting blue hen in college,

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Speaker 3: and even had an early job as a bartender. He

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Speaker 3: won a slew of awards and has been a part

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Speaker 3: of some of the greatest creative agencies. For a good reason,

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Speaker 3: he makes extraordinary creative, and for that same good reason,

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Speaker 3: he has chaired the can Lyons Awards show Jury four times, which,

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Speaker 3: for those of you outside the industry, is like the

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Speaker 3: Academy Awards of advertising. We got a lot to discuss today, Rob.

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Speaker 4: Welcome, Oh, pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 3: What I want to do now is get you in

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Speaker 3: sixty seconds?

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Speaker 4: You ready? Perfect? Yeah? I'm ready. Do you prefer capture dogs? Neither?

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Speaker 2: But if I'm forced to choose one cats, city or country,

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Speaker 2: I think city, though we live out in Shelter Island,

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Speaker 2: which is a beautiful place, so getting to be a

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Speaker 2: little bit more of a I don't know if a country,

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Speaker 2: but more of an islander. Books are movies, I think.

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Speaker 4: I'll say audio books, amor FM.

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Speaker 2: Well, in college I worked at an AM radio station,

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Speaker 2: so I'm going to say AM for all it was

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Speaker 2: back then.

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Speaker 4: Don Draper or George Lois.

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Speaker 2: Don Draper, George Lewis. I met him once and he

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Speaker 2: cursed at me in an elevator favorite TV show.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna say Bevis and butneat.

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Speaker 3: Most exciting advertising campaign that you did not make.

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Speaker 4: Right the future, Nike, Let's jump into the meat.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about developing creative ideas as we've discussed on math.

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Speaker 4: And magic before.

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Speaker 3: And I'll take my own personal experience that creative ideas

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Speaker 3: for me are just sudden epiphanies. I think about the

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Speaker 3: issue and then I forget about it, and in the

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Speaker 3: middle of the night or often in the morning, when

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Speaker 3: I'm taking that nice, hot meditative shower, answers just pop

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Speaker 3: in my head out of nowhere. And by the way,

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Speaker 3: David Eagleman, the neuroscientists who's been on this podcast, it

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Speaker 3: has theories and talks about why that is.

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Speaker 4: But how do you.

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Speaker 3: Develop new ideas and what's your creative process?

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Speaker 2: For people like me my kind of creative process, it's

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Speaker 2: so much a process. It isn't just come up with

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Speaker 2: while the idea is the briefing part of advertising is

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Speaker 2: the thing that's most underrated for successful creative work. When

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Speaker 2: you have a brief that's clear and pointed in inspiring,

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Speaker 2: you have first and many steps of making great work.

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Speaker 4: I always tell.

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Speaker 2: Clients, listen, this brief is not for you or I.

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Speaker 2: This brief is for that junior team that has to

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Speaker 2: show Rob Riley work at nine am and it's midnight.

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Speaker 2: And if that brief is convoluted long eight point type

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Speaker 2: on a page versus twelve point type. If it's trying

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Speaker 2: to do too many things, it's going to be a nightmare.

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Speaker 2: How do we make that brief the best friend? And

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Speaker 2: the way you do that is you've got a very

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Speaker 2: simple ask. It's going to solve some tension that's out

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Speaker 2: there in culture. And when this idea lands in culture,

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Speaker 2: what's the thing that the press writes about? What's that

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Speaker 2: thing people love share and spread. That's the entire process.

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Speaker 2: It started years ago at an agency called Kryst and Bagusky.

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Speaker 2: We called it's the press release process. And when the

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Speaker 2: idea lands in culture, what's that story the press will

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Speaker 2: write about? And if you can't figure that out and

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Speaker 2: a sentence or two, there's no way you're going to

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Speaker 2: be able to make an entire campaign that's going to

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Speaker 2: pop in culture. And we did it to help young

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Speaker 2: teams compete with senior teams on big projects like launching

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Speaker 2: a Windows ten to the world. It's really hard for

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Speaker 2: young people to take that and figure it out. So

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Speaker 2: I try to simplify things by creating that process, and

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Speaker 2: I still use it today. It's evolved to what's that

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Speaker 2: thing people love share and spread through the Internet through

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Speaker 2: on social But it's a very simple thing. If I

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Speaker 2: can't imagine it what it's going to be when it

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Speaker 2: lands in culture, then it's probably not going to be

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Speaker 2: a great idea.

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Speaker 3: So you've got a really good process, and it sounds

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Speaker 3: like you're very thorough, very thoughtful about it, and you

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Speaker 3: wind people up and say, Okay, this is what we've

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Speaker 3: got to do. It's got to accomplish these things. It's

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Speaker 3: got to really impact culture. But the idea has got

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Speaker 3: to come from somewhere. How does that idea hit you

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Speaker 3: or hit other creatives?

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Speaker 4: People? Oh, fear that you won't have an idea.

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Speaker 2: I don't like to use fear as a motivator, but

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Speaker 2: I think for each individual person, like you do wake

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Speaker 2: up thinking am I going to have any more ideas?

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Speaker 2: And I think you need to be a fountain of ideas.

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Speaker 2: So I write down everything. Anything that sounds insane, I

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Speaker 2: still write it down, I still pitch it, and I

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Speaker 2: try to create environments where anybody can say anything without

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Speaker 2: any judgment. And I think the best clients and the

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Speaker 2: best relationships are you've set that process up together where

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Speaker 2: you've created the environment for creativity to live.

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Speaker 3: We talked about George Lois, and you told me your

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Speaker 3: George Lois story. George Lois created Don't Want My MTV.

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Speaker 3: And I had lunch with George when mad Men first

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Speaker 3: came out, and he goes, that's not me. We spent

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Speaker 3: a lot of time at lunch on me that wasn't him,

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Speaker 3: which meant it was probably more him than not. But

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Speaker 3: it was interesting with George Is. George was not afraid

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Speaker 3: to revive old advertising ideas. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 3: I Want my MTV was actually I want my Maypo

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Speaker 3: And when George pitched it to me, he said, look,

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Speaker 3: this was really successful for Maypo. I think this is

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Speaker 3: what we need because our goal was we had cable

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Speaker 3: companies that did not want to put MTV on because

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Speaker 3: they wanted us to pay them. We didn't have any

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Speaker 3: money to pay them, and we had this very crazy audience.

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Speaker 3: We said, well, we can enlist them to go sort

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Speaker 3: of get consumer pull for this. And so he wasn't

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Speaker 3: afraid to go back and use it. But I saw

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Speaker 3: him throughout a lot of his work and others as well,

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Speaker 3: go back in mine great ideas from the past place

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Speaker 3: for you and that or do you have another point

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Speaker 3: of view?

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Speaker 2: Well, everything is rived of off everything, right, I don't

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Speaker 2: think there's too many original ideas. Years ago at Crispin

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Speaker 2: to promote a Burger King chicken sandwich, we came up

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Speaker 2: with this idea called the Subservient Chicken. But it was

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Speaker 2: a guy in a chicken suit responding to commands. There's

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Speaker 2: been a million things with people in chicken suits, right,

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Speaker 2: But until you do it and put a twist on

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Speaker 2: it and make it just that's weird enough, then that's

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Speaker 2: what it becomes special. So now what George did, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you can get away with it now.

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Speaker 2: I mean he literally took the exact sam campaign he

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Speaker 2: made decades before and just put it into MTV. I

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Speaker 2: actually give him a lot of credit for not worrying

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Speaker 2: about what people might think of, like, oh, you stole

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Speaker 2: your own idea, because it was the right idea for.

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Speaker 4: MTV at the time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that campaign, you could say, is probably a

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Speaker 2: big reason why MTV was successful. I mean I remember

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Speaker 2: it like it was yesterday. I remember the first d a

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Speaker 2: MTV came was and it was a Saturday afternoon, I

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Speaker 2: believe I was in Long Island, New York at my

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Speaker 2: aunt and uncle's house watching this thing come on, and

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Speaker 2: I remember like it was yesterday. So in some ways,

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Speaker 2: like I give George Lowis a lot of credit for

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Speaker 2: being brave enough or not caring enough. But I think

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Speaker 2: his style, but like the style of being gruff and

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Speaker 2: maybe yelling a bit more like those days are gone.

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Speaker 2: You can't get away with it now, Like you really

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Speaker 2: have to be more of a charming provouct You need

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Speaker 2: to charm your own people, your coworkers and your clients

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Speaker 2: with charm them with wit, intelligence, caring about their business

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Speaker 2: where that they care, knowing about their business more than

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Speaker 2: they do, then you could be provocative. The days of

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Speaker 2: throwing chairs at clients or at teams or those are gone.

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Speaker 2: It's a much different world and you've got to figure

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Speaker 2: out how can you be successful in that style of business.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not necessarily a yell or screamer, but you

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Speaker 2: know I did a lot of coaching from ten to

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Speaker 2: fifteen years ago where you know, I was intense and

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Speaker 2: you know, didn't care about people's feelings as much. So

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Speaker 2: I think it's a new kind of creativity that you know,

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Speaker 2: would be interesting if George could survive in this day

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Speaker 2: and age.

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Speaker 3: Let's take that note of the past. At the dawn

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Speaker 3: of the century, you were the acting chief creative officer

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Speaker 3: at Hill Holiday and you took up sixty percent pay

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Speaker 3: cut to change jobs and become just a copywriter at

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Speaker 3: Crispin Porter. Clearly it all worked out. Why did you

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Speaker 3: take that risk and what lesson did you learn?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 2: I had worked for this amazing boss named David Weekle,

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Speaker 2: and he was the chief graative officer and they parted ways,

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Speaker 2: and I was one of the more senior people there,

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Speaker 2: but not very senior at all, and they said, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe you can step in temporarily while we search for

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Speaker 2: a new CEO. Might have been some discussion if you

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Speaker 2: want to throw your hat in the ring to be

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Speaker 2: that person. And I kind of realized that I had

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Speaker 2: all the skills of a great creative director without maybe

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Speaker 2: the work of a great creative director. And I did

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Speaker 2: want to end up being a New York creative at

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Speaker 2: a certain age that kind a giant salary, but didn't

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Speaker 2: have the work where people would follow you. So I

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Speaker 2: ended up going down to Crispin Porter and Buguski at

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Speaker 2: the time probably one hundred and twenty people, sort of

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Speaker 2: getting known for doing some really interesting national work for

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Speaker 2: smaller clients, and I pitched Alex Buguski, now my current wife,

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Speaker 2: my only wife, but she was my girlfriend the time

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Speaker 2: she was working there, so I had a connection. But

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Speaker 2: Alex wasn't going to hire me just because I was

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Speaker 2: the boyfriend. Maybe in fact, didn't necessarily want some guy

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Speaker 2: from New York who had all the wrong sort of

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Speaker 2: closed and was a big creative director from New York

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Speaker 2: City come down to his agency in Miami.

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Speaker 4: That was really small type culture.

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Speaker 2: But I knew that's the kind of work I needed

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Speaker 2: to be part of, because in the end, you don't

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Speaker 2: necessarily just follow people. You follow people because of the

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Speaker 2: work they've done. And I had all the skills of

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Speaker 2: being able to present and good with clients and maybe

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Speaker 2: good with teams, but I didn't have enough creative work

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Speaker 2: that I thought was like culture changing that was going

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Speaker 2: to get me to a long term career. So I

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Speaker 2: took a few steps back. But it wasn't the easiest ride.

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Speaker 2: When I got there, I was the guy from New York.

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Speaker 2: Everybody's in flip flops and shorts. I'm here in the

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Speaker 2: produc boots in black. I stood out like a sore

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Speaker 2: thumb and about thirty days into it, Alex calls me

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Speaker 2: in his office said, listen, man, I love the work

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Speaker 2: you're doing. I think you're fantastic. Here's the problem. No

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Speaker 2: one else likes you. So I thought he would say,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't matter as long as I like you. He said,

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Speaker 2: that's the opposite. I can't have one guy who ruined

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Speaker 2: the culture. So you got to figure out how to

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Speaker 2: get people to like you. And long story short, I

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Speaker 2: ended up going back and deciding, like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to shut my mouth and sit in

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Speaker 2: the corner and crank out work.

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Speaker 4: And that's what I did.

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Speaker 2: And then once you start making work, people respect. That

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Speaker 2: was the beginning of building a body of work that

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Speaker 2: I'm really proud of at every level. Copywriter, creative director, CEO,

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Speaker 2: creative chairman. To down with WPP, head of a holding company.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, let's go back in time for a second.

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Speaker 3: Why didn't they like you? What were you doing?

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Speaker 4: Why didn't they like me?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 4: I probably had the wrong clothes.

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Speaker 2: I had an incredibly intelligent, smart, beautiful girlfriend who's now

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Speaker 2: my wife and doing all the amazing work.

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Speaker 4: And I was a boyfriend from New York.

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Speaker 2: I came from a big New York ad agency and

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Speaker 2: it wasn't quite fitting in the culture. And I think,

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Speaker 2: growing up in New Jersey like we're loud. And when

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Speaker 2: I went and told my wife that Alex said that

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Speaker 2: people didn't like me, her response was, why don't you

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Speaker 2: just try shutting up and doing the work, you know,

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Speaker 2: like you're the problem. So I was taught a lesson

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Speaker 2: early on to shut my mouth and do the work.

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Speaker 2: And when you have the work, you get the respect.

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Speaker 3: Well that's a great lesson. And ten years later you

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Speaker 3: were the chief creative officer of Crispin Porter. So it

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Speaker 3: all worked out. Yeah, it all worked out. You continued

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Speaker 3: to succeed. You went on to be Global Creative Chairman

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Speaker 3: at a McCann, a worldwide group from twenty and fourteen

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Speaker 3: to twenty twenty one, and then on to WPP in

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Speaker 3: your current role. Everyone knows the Fearless Girl statue on

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Speaker 3: Wall Street.

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Speaker 4: What's this story?

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Speaker 2: It's a great story because State Street Global Advisors was

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Speaker 2: an account that McCann had for a few years and

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Speaker 2: hadn't been known for doing such great work. But when

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Speaker 2: I went to McCann, the first thing I did to

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Speaker 2: turn around an agency that maybe hadn't been doing as

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Speaker 2: well as they had hoped. Was let's put an attainable

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Speaker 2: goal in place, and we called it three for All,

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Speaker 2: and it was, how do we create three magical pieces

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Speaker 2: every year for every client in every office and this

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Speaker 2: way everybody is responsible for contributing to hopefully the creative

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Speaker 2: turnaround that McCann eventually achieved a process, and I think

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Speaker 2: three magical pieces a year is pretty attainable and you

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Speaker 2: don't rely on just one account making the famous work.

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Speaker 2: Every account has to deliver. And state ttreat was probably

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Speaker 2: one of the most challenged. It's because it's a financial

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Speaker 2: company based in Boston, a great company, but not known

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Speaker 2: for doing very bold work all the time. But at

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Speaker 2: the end of the year, we didn't really have three

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Speaker 2: pieces of work that we could hold up and say

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Speaker 2: these are our best three pieces of work for State Street.

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Speaker 2: And someone said, well, they got this amazing fund called

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Speaker 2: the She Fund, where you can invest in female lead companies.

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Speaker 2: Because State Street realized they were part of the problem

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Speaker 2: with the lack of female leadership on Wall Street. They

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Speaker 2: created a fund where you can invest in female lead companies,

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Speaker 2: and they put pressure on companies to put more females

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Speaker 2: on their board. So of course an easy thing for

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Speaker 2: us to do was to do a print ad about it.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we brought the print at but then

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Speaker 2: here's thirty more ideas and one of the ideas was

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Speaker 2: not necessarily a Ferals girl.

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Speaker 4: The idea is to put a.

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Speaker 2: Female bowl in front of the male bowl. And amazing

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Speaker 2: team Lizzie and Tally came up with the idea with

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Speaker 2: the help of Eric Silver, who was the CECO of

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Speaker 2: North America. And you know, they kept coming in my

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Speaker 2: office saying, oh, we love this idea, and I'm like, okay, okay.

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Speaker 4: Go for it.

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Speaker 2: And of course the clients that we love the idea,

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Speaker 2: but you know, we're just not comfortable with it. And

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Speaker 2: the reason they're not comfortable with it because there's no

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Speaker 2: such thing as a female bull. It's a cow, right,

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Speaker 2: And that's why, you know, as a CEO, you really

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Speaker 2: have to let people, if they're so passionate about something,

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Speaker 2: go try and sell it. But what they didn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: realize was it wasn't necessarily the bull or the cow

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Speaker 2: that was going to be the thing people talk. It

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Speaker 2: was the standoff. It was the standoff to the charging bull,

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Speaker 2: which had become the sort of the symbol of the

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Speaker 2: misogyny on Wall Street, if you will, right, So I

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Speaker 2: said to him, go back and let's see if there's

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Speaker 2: another way to cut this. And they came back and

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Speaker 2: threw a lot of brainstorming and came back with little

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Speaker 2: girl or hands on her hips, staring down the bowl.

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Speaker 2: We called it Fearless Girl, to match the cadence of

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Speaker 2: charging bull meet Fearless Girl. And then we bought two

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Speaker 2: weeks of space in front of the bowl. We built

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Speaker 2: out cobblestone so to sort of match the cobblestone, and

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Speaker 2: we said we got two weeks for.

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Speaker 4: This to hit.

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Speaker 2: And I knew that it would hit, and I knew

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Speaker 2: once the world and the city fell in love with her.

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Speaker 2: And again, remember Hillary did not win the presidency, so

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of angst in the world certainly

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Speaker 2: around this. So that it came at the perfect time.

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Speaker 2: We launched around International Women's Day, and the rest is history.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: The interesting part of this, Bob is that she was

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Speaker 2: causing a lot of traffic with the bull. The bull

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Speaker 2: itself always causes traffic, but then with feral Scirl, it

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Speaker 2: really was causing a bit of a traffic concern. So

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Speaker 2: the city came to us and said, oh, we need

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Speaker 2: to move feral Scroll and like we're going to move

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Speaker 2: her wherever. We want to move her to a park.

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Speaker 2: It's like no, no, no, no, We'll move her to Germany

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Speaker 2: or to Tokyo, to London.

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Speaker 4: They all want her.

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Speaker 2: There's only one place she goes, and that's standing in

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Speaker 2: front of the New York Stock Exchange. And if you

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Speaker 2: go there today, she stands in front of it and

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Speaker 2: faces the entrance.

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Speaker 4: You know it doesn't front it.

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Speaker 2: So when those stockbrokers leave every day, they got to

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Speaker 2: see here and remember to do the right thing.

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Speaker 3: More of Math and Magic right after this quick break.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to Math and Magic. Let's hear more from

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Speaker 3: my conversation with Rob Riley. I want to go back

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Speaker 3: in time a little bit to get some context on you.

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Speaker 3: You grew up in Jersey in the seventies and eighties.

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Speaker 3: Can you paint a picture of those times and how

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Speaker 3: you grew up? What was your environment?

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Speaker 2: Just awesome, Bob News Jersey is awesome that you know.

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Speaker 2: We get hit a bit sometimes. I don't know where

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Speaker 2: you're from, Bob.

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Speaker 3: But U Mississippi, Jersey wrote, Mississippi hitting New Jersey. Mississippi

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Speaker 3: gets Yeah, you get, you get.

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Speaker 2: A couple of a couple of shots.

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Speaker 4: You know you've done.

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Speaker 2: Quite well for a guy from Mississippis So Jerseys gets

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Speaker 2: a little bit of the same.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: We always seem like we're scrappy and fighting. I'm actually

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Speaker 2: mostly Italian. My mother's side was all Italian and my

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Speaker 2: father's Irish and German. But even though my last name

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Speaker 2: is Riley, I grew up mostly Italian with my grandmother

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Speaker 2: ten minutes away and the sauce on the Sundays.

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Speaker 4: That whole thing is.

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Speaker 2: Very much a big part of my life, and I

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Speaker 2: grew up in an environment with that was very positive.

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Speaker 2: Grew up in the same house for my entire life.

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Speaker 2: My father worked for IBM. Years later I realized he

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Speaker 2: turned down probably ten promotions. IBM used to be known

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Speaker 2: for I've been moved. The only way he got promoted

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Speaker 2: was moving, and he turned down ten promotions so the

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Speaker 2: family could grow up in the same household. You know,

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Speaker 2: sacrificed a lot. So it's not lost on me the

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Speaker 2: sacrifices my parents made for their kids to grow up

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Speaker 2: in the same place with the same friends and same

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Speaker 2: sports teams and that comfortable environment that I don't think

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Speaker 2: a lot of kids often get, certainly these days where you.

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Speaker 3: Have to move a lot. Your parents clearly had a

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Speaker 3: huge impact on you. What lessons do you still use

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Speaker 3: today that came directly from your parents?

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Speaker 4: My parents and also my grandparents. My mother's father was

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Speaker 4: an artist.

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Speaker 2: When he was young, he was a semi pro hockey player,

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Speaker 2: was in the Rangers farm system, and he was about

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Speaker 2: to go pro with the Rangers, and he chose to

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Speaker 2: be an artist instead because he thought it would be

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Speaker 2: a better way to make money.

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Speaker 4: Isn't it ironic now?

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Speaker 2: But as an artist, you know, he was very talented,

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Speaker 2: but also it wasn't a guarantee that you're going to

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Speaker 2: make money, So he ended up working in an advertising

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Speaker 2: gains he's as a retoucher. He made money or support

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Speaker 2: his family by being a retouch or in advertising. That

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Speaker 2: story always stuck with me. Just because you want to

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Speaker 2: be an artist, or you train to be an artist,

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean you're going to be successful. You know, creativity

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Speaker 2: is to crashoot. Sometimes you need luck, you need people

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Speaker 2: helping you, but you need that hard work. So I

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Speaker 2: always had that in the back of my mind. Is

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Speaker 2: like Hey, I want to go into advertising. You know,

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Speaker 2: once I started realizing I wanted to be a copywriter,

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Speaker 2: It's like, this isn't a guarantee. I got to work

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Speaker 2: that much harder and I've got to do everything that

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Speaker 2: would give you a leg up. When I used to

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Speaker 2: have this presentation I called creativity is the only way

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Speaker 2: to survive. And I think my own life, in my

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Speaker 2: own career, is that I'm always figuring out ways like

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Speaker 2: how do I keep surviving and thriving in this world?

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Speaker 2: And part of it is like always waking up thinking

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Speaker 2: like it could be gone tomorrow, I could fall out

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Speaker 2: of favor. That's the thing artists always struggle with, is

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Speaker 2: like you put all this time and effort into it,

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean it's going to turn into a success.

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Speaker 3: You went to college at University of Delaware, the Fighting

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Speaker 3: Blue Hens. Why there and what did you get from

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Speaker 3: your college experience?

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Speaker 2: Well, listen, Jill and Joe Biden, come on, We've got

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Speaker 2: some pretty famous.

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Speaker 4: People who went to the University of Delaware.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting Delaware another state that gets a lot of shots, right.

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Speaker 4: You know, my mother didn't like to fly.

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Speaker 2: We didn't go on many vacations outside of the Northeast area.

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Speaker 2: So when I was choosing schools, it's really like I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to be so far that my mother couldn't

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Speaker 2: come visit me. And I was a soccer player, pretty

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Speaker 2: good one in high school and Delaware as a team

430
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Speaker 2: is Division one team, and I liked the coach and

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Speaker 2: he liked me, and I ended up going there to

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Speaker 2: play soccer and then ended up quitting, you know, after

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Speaker 2: two years because I just wasn't playing.

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Speaker 4: It was frustrating.

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Speaker 2: You played Division in sports, you're working that hard and

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Speaker 2: if you're not playing it, you're like, why am I

437
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Speaker 2: doing this? I'm not a quitter. But it did allow

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Speaker 2: me to do other things. Work at a radio s

439
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 2: work at an ad agency in Wilmington. So I think

440
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,879
Speaker 2: that choice I made, even though I look back on

441
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 2: and say, I wish I would have finished that out

442
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 2: and maybe I could have turned it around, but it

443
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 2: allowed me to do things that maybe have put me

444
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 2: in this position. So I think I got team mentality

445
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 2: from being part of a high level team for a

446
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,639
Speaker 2: very short time. But then I got the experience working

447
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,159
Speaker 2: in an ad agency. Wow, you know, I fell in

448
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 2: love with advertising from that. So I feel like it

449
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 2: all kind of always works out.

450
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 3: So how did you get your first job in advertising?

451
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 2: This is a great story. I lived in the Rugby

452
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 2: House on the main road at the University of Delaware.

453
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 2: A bunch of rugby guys, you know, there were my roommates.

454
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 2: And see, the Rugby guys would throw parties every once

455
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 2: in a while. And one Saturday afternoon, we're having a party.

456
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 2: It's on the main road and it looks crazy, and

457
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, the sky in a Porsche stops.

458
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 4: And said, Hey, what's going on. I'm like, I don't know.

459
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,400
Speaker 4: We're having a party. What does it look like? And

460
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 4: I go, why are you here? It's like, ah, you know,

461
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 4: just driving by. It looks like fun.

462
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 2: And I go, what do you do You're in a

463
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 2: Porsche And he goes, I own an advertising agency. I go, oh,

464
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 2: I work at a radio station and I'd love to

465
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 2: learn more about advertising. And I struck up a conversation

466
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 2: with him and gave me his card. I called him,

467
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 2: and then right out of college I ended up working

468
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 2: for him as an account executive. He did not owe

469
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 2: Gladstone and Quinn was the agency. Tom Quinn was the guy.

470
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 2: I owed that guy a lot. He gave me a

471
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 2: shot get into advertising, learning it, but I was an

472
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: account guy at the time. I wasn't a copywriter. I

473
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:29,679
Speaker 2: wanted to be one, but I didn't really know how

474
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: to do it. Yeah, that was the first job. So

475
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 2: throw parties on your front lawn. You never know how

476
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 2: it changes your life.

477
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 3: So let's jump a little bit to present day. How

478
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 3: do you understand the consumer? We recently did a study

479
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 3: along with Malcolm Gladwell comparing Real America to marketing folks,

480
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 3: and wow, big divisions really sort of like you know,

481
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 3: electric moment for all of us. The study did stuff like,

482
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 3: what are two things you can't give up? Marketers and

483
00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 3: Real America agree on snacking, but mark say I can't

484
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 3: give up online shopping. Consumers say I can't give up podcast.

485
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 3: When you look at basic values being a little more

486
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 3: serious about it, the American public, two things that are

487
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 3: very important that are really missing from the marketers world

488
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 3: is religion and the military. And so it's a number

489
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 3: of things like that. It just says, wow, we're talking

490
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 3: past each other on a lot of stuff. And I

491
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 3: admit I'm one of those people. I live in this bubble.

492
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 3: But we really try and understand the real America that

493
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 3: we're talking to. How do you avoid living in a

494
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 3: Marketer's bubble and staying connected to real consumers.

495
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 2: So you got to read a lot of newspapers, You

496
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 2: got to lead a lot, read a lot of things online,

497
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 2: listen to a lot of podcasts. You try to listen

498
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: to things that not necessarily about your own industry.

499
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 4: But I don't know.

500
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 2: I think it's a lot of how.

501
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 4: You've been brought up and grown up.

502
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 2: I had an amazing parent, but you know, money wasn't

503
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: always plenty and saw struggles, and like a lot of

504
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 2: families within America, grew up, you know, knowing that my

505
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 2: parents are working their ass off to put their kids

506
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 2: through college, to do all those things. I don't think

507
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 2: you forget that. So that keeps me grounded. But I

508
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 2: don't know. I think sports is the greatest of the connectors,

509
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 2: you know, because you could be rich, you could be poor,

510
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: you could be from the city, you could be from

511
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: the country. But like man, you are pulled together by sports.

512
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: So I spend a lot of time. My wife probably

513
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 2: thinks I spent too much time with sports, but I

514
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 2: do think it is the great connector because I might

515
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: be in an elevator of someone and strike up a conversation,

516
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 2: and sports is always that thing that connects you and

517
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 2: allows you to start to get to know to people

518
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 2: and hear what they're really caring about and thinking about.

519
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 2: I don't think we're that different, and if you go globally,

520
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 2: people are pretty similar to Everybody wants to have a

521
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 2: great life for their family, do well, enjoy life a bit,

522
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 2: and we're not that different.

523
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting you say that about the stories. When

524
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 3: I was a young man, I rode motorcycles a lot

525
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 3: with a group of friends and we did a lot

526
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 3: of trips. We did two cross country trips, one in

527
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety two one in nineteen ninety four across the

528
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 3: two lane highways across America.

529
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 4: Won the Northern route, won the Southern route.

530
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 3: And when I came back from that trip, what struck

531
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 3: me the most is everybody wants to talk to you,

532
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 3: and if you just shut up and listen to them,

533
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 3: they're going to tell you a lot of stuff you

534
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 3: don't know. And through the years, I've been a pilot

535
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: since I was a kid, and when I had smaller planes,

536
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 3: I couldn't make it a long distance without stopping for fuel,

537
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 3: and every time i'd stop for fuel, I would try

538
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 3: and borrow a crew car and go into town just

539
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 3: to see the town, no matter where that town was.

540
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 3: And I sort of missed that at my age now

541
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 3: because I don't do as much of it. But boy

542
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: do you learn a lot. Let's jump to corporate culture.

543
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 3: How do you build it and how do you use it?

544
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 2: All the CEOs of all our companies we have a

545
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: monthly get together, mostly virtual because people are in different places.

546
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 2: And I said, don't forget to tell everybody, Hey, yeah,

547
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 2: it's always a tough year. Like advertising it, it's always tough, right,

548
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: but you can't forget to thank people and let them

549
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 2: know that they've done it, great job and accomplish so

550
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 2: many things.

551
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 4: It's easy to focus on the negatives.

552
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 2: It's much harder focused on the positives, you know, and

553
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 2: how do we celebrate those things more so? I think

554
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: that's how you build the culture. You just remind people

555
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 2: like we've come a long way, done a lot.

556
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 4: Of amazing things.

557
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: We're seen as the most creative company and advertising we're

558
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 2: seen as one of the best places to work because

559
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 2: I think people want to come work for creative places.

560
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: I think We're constantly having to prove the value of creativity.

561
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 4: We're out there championing it.

562
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 2: So I think the reminding people like the job they

563
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: have is such a great one because one it's different

564
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: every day. Two, creativity really is the world's most valuable asset.

565
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 2: And your agents for that and agents for helping brands

566
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 2: be really meaningful in people's lives. And I've said this

567
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 2: many times that listen, it's brands that are filling in

568
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 2: for governments that just can't afford to help people, which

569
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 2: was the original point of government was set up to

570
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: help people. Well, we've not forgotten it, but but we've

571
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: got so many challenges. Is like, brands have really filled

572
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 2: in the void sometimes and it's really a great honor

573
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 2: to do. And I think we forget that we do

574
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 2: have a big job, and so I try to focus

575
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 2: on the positives and create that kind of culture.

576
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 3: What's your philosophy? Own business is doing good for the

577
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 3: world we'd live in.

578
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 2: There's not enough of it, and I hope we don't

579
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: get tired of pushing it. More than ever. People need help.

580
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: So many people need help. And if a brand is

581
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 2: out there that can help people and it's born out.

582
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 4: Of their DNA.

583
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 2: It's not some barred interesting like why wouldn't we help it?

584
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: I think it should be a real serious part of

585
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 2: people's marketing, purpose led marketing, because I think young people

586
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: are looking at brands and if you're not doing the

587
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 2: right thing, so they just won't use they use somebody else.

588
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: And so I do think it's it's important that we

589
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: don't forget that brands can really be positive in people's

590
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: lives and fill in when governments maybe can't get the

591
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: job done.

592
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: You and I were on the radio as teenagers. I'm

593
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 3: doing a podcast and now you're a podcaster. What drew

594
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: you to this medium and what is surprise you most

595
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 3: about audio and podcasting.

596
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 2: Well, it's a great question because I have two people

597
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: that work closely with, Alex and Jonathan, and they are

598
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: the producers and they run comms also. But Jonathan comes

599
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: from the world of TV and he was filling in here.

600
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: He lives in Singapore, but he's actually moving here and

601
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: running in North America for US. But he kept pushing

602
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: me into doing things, into doing more things out there.

603
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 2: And I was on the Today Show talking about the

604
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 2: Super Bowl last year, and he said, you need to

605
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 2: do a podcast.

606
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I don't want to do this. Too

607
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 4: many podcasts. You know, everybody's doing a podcast.

608
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: But Mark had also said Mark Reid it said, listen,

609
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: we need to put out more content for our teams,

610
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: and you know you need to do more. I said, well,

611
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: I'll do a town hall. He's like, well, we already

612
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: have a town hall. What else can we do? So

613
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 2: a podcast seem like a real natural way for me

614
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 2: to connect with one hundred and fifteen thousand WPP employees.

615
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: So the rest of the world if they listened to it, great,

616
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: but it's really done for our own employees because one,

617
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: we have so many talents people within our walls that

618
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 2: do so many great things, and how do we tell

619
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 2: their stories? But again, a chance for people to hear

620
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,239
Speaker 2: from me bi weekly through different guests about what I

621
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: believe in and the kind of creativity I'm looking for,

622
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 2: and different people's stories. And if people are out there

623
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: who haven't gotten to advertising and they feel like, oh,

624
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 2: that sounds like a cool business and we attract more

625
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 2: diverse talent, then it's really done its job. So I'm

626
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 2: liking it. I didn't love it at first, but Alex

627
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 2: and Johnathan convince me to keep doing it, and I

628
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: quite like it.

629
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 4: Now.

630
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 3: Welcome to our world AI. We can't talk without mentioning

631
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 3: AI friend or foe.

632
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 4: Oh friend, Oh my god, such a friend.

633
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: I think what's been removed from our business a bit, bob,

634
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: And this is just from a creative person standpoint within advertising,

635
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: because of course it's going to make production more efficient,

636
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: and it's already making media more efficient, but it's going

637
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: to allow creative people to experiment faster and fail a bit.

638
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: You know, what's been removed is the time and money

639
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: to experiment and fail, and that's such a part of

640
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: the creative process. And I think is allowing designers to

641
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: look at looks that would have taken a week to

642
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: have it done in a couple hours and to take

643
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 2: inspiration from that. But I do think in five years

644
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: and s is why WPP has bet so hard on

645
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,719
Speaker 2: creativity and bet so much on creativity, is that AI

646
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: is going to put a lot of mediocrity out into

647
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: the world. A lot of companies a will be able

648
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: to put out things at scale. So the brands that

649
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: bet on creativity and the talent and the agencies that

650
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: it takes to create those breakthrough ideas are going to

651
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: be the ones who win because that's what's going to

652
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: be needed. So I'm a fan of it. It's just

653
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: like the digital camera in the computer. I mean, there

654
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: used to be art directors back in the eighties and

655
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: nineties when the computer was first introduced, and who said

656
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 2: I'm never going to use a computer.

657
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 4: I draw everything. Well, those people do.

658
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 2: Not exist, and I think AI is going to be

659
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: the same. If you're a creative person in advertising, you

660
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: better learn it, understand it, at least be able to

661
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: judge it. Because AI won't replace creative people, but creative

662
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: people who are masters of AI eventually will replace creative

663
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: people who just haven't embraced it. And for all the

664
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: things that it brings you.

665
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 3: It's time for some advice. If someone wants to be

666
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: the next you, what advice would you give them?

667
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know why they would want to be

668
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: the next me, But if someone wants to be maybe

669
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: this successful in the CEO role, right, because it's different

670
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 2: than a copywriter and even different than a creative diduct

671
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: you really have to be good at everything. You don't

672
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: necessarily have to be great at anything, but you really

673
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: have to understand everything. They're writing the art direction to design,

674
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: the media part, the business side of it, the relationship

675
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: side of it, how to sell to people in a

676
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: way that feels that they're not being sold to, and

677
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: how to provide inspiration and influence and leadership. If you're

678
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: not down with all of those things, you won't be successful,

679
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: you won't be happy. Because this job isn't just sitting

680
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: in your office and looking at ideas and saying yes

681
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 2: or no. It's a lot of relationship building. There are

682
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 2: very smart clients on the other side that are under

683
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: so much pressure, and our jobs is like relieve that pressure,

684
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: like by bringing them bold ideas that will lead to

685
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: widely successful business results. You know, that are based in

686
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: their DNA as a company and have smart strategies behind it. Like,

687
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 2: that's a lot of work that isn't just throwing you know,

688
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: darts at a dartboard or playing ping pong and drinking

689
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: beers to come up with crazy ideas. And maybe mad

690
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: Men has done that a bit, but Don Draper wasn't

691
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: doing that, And you know he was the CCO of

692
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: that company. Don Draper was dealing with clients a lot

693
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: and dealing with the pressures of that but he embraced

694
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: a lot of it and maybe solved it with too

695
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: many scotches on the rocks. But I think that's the

696
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: part that people don't quite understand about being the CEO.

697
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 2: It's so much about creativity, but it's so much more

698
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 2: and being that hopefully inspirational leader for people when they

699
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: needed the most clients included.

700
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 3: As we wrap up, we always end with a shout

701
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 3: out to the best of math and magic, out to

702
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 3: the greatest person you know know of who is the

703
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 3: expert in the analytics or the math side of the business.

704
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 3: And the other shout out goes to the best magician,

705
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 3: the creative type. Can you give me a year two?

706
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: Well, there's a woman that she just left recently, McCann.

707
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 2: She was my creative strategy partner. Her name is Suzanne Powers,

708
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 2: and there's no one better at strategy than her, no

709
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: one better at looking at the data and then turning

710
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: it into inspirational insights and briefs. And she's by far

711
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: the mathemagician because she uses data analytics and analyzes all

712
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: types of research and then delivers such inspiring ways for

713
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: us to go creatively. The magic part, it's not necessarily

714
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: a choice that most people would do. But there's this

715
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: woman named Debica Bulchandani who's now the CEO of Ogilvy.

716
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: We work together at McCann and we talked about fearal

717
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: S Girl.

718
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 4: She's the reason it got sold.

719
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 2: And I think the people that are either CEOs or

720
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: account people don't get a lot of credit for being magicians.

721
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 2: And she's a magician and how she sells work to

722
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: clients and how she really understands their needs and turns

723
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: it into assignments for us and really can take an

724
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: idea and say, well, here, I know I didn't come

725
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: up with it, but this might make it better. So

726
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: it's not necessarily a choice of the Bill Burnbacks or

727
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: the David Ogleby's or the Dan Widens of the world.

728
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: But I do think when you find a business person

729
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: or a CEO or an account person that understands creativity

730
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: so deeply and then can sell these ideas and figure

731
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 2: out how to get them made, that to me is

732
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 2: the real magicians of our business.

733
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: Rob so great having you with us. Thanks for the

734
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 3: stories and the insights and nice to hear from someone

735
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 3: at the top of their game.

736
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 2: Thanks Bob, You're a legend and This has been like

737
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: one of the biggest honors I've had, and I was

738
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: happy to do it.

739
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 3: Here are a few things I picked up from my

740
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: conversation with Rob one. Write down all your ideas. Ideas

741
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 3: are our lifeblood, especially when you're talking about the magic

742
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 3: side of marketing. Create a system for logging all your ideas,

743
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 3: especially your wildest ones. You never know when an old

744
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: thought might lead to the next great innovation.

745
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 4: Two. Do the work.

746
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: When Rob had the opportunity to rise to an executive

747
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 3: level early in his career, he went the opposite direction.

748
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 3: He decided to build out his portfolio as a copywriter

749
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 3: so he could prove his talent and build credibility before

750
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 3: becoming a leader. Dedicating time to doing the real work

751
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 3: of your job will help you understand your business and

752
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 3: craft better. Building that foundation will make you a better

753
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 3: and well respected leader in your career.

754
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 4: Three.

755
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 3: Break out of your bubble. Pursue information that's outside your

756
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 3: daily environment and personal interest. There's a huge gap between

757
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 3: the values of marketers and major cities and those of

758
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 3: consumers all over the country. Get out of your comfort

759
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 3: zone and take in new information. Read things you usually

760
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 3: wouldn't learn about a new industry for visiting new place,

761
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 3: think about what bridges the gap, and use those values.

762
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 4: In your work to speak to a large audience.

763
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 3: I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening.

764
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening

765
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. The

766
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sidney

767
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: Rosenblum for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is

768
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: no small feat. Mathematics producers are Emily Meronov and Jessica Crimechitch.

769
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: It is mixed and mastered by Baheed Fraser. Our executive

770
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: producers are Nikki Etoor and Ali Perry, and of course

771
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: a big thanks to get Ale, Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel

772
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 1: and everyone who helped bring this show to your ears.

773
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 1: Until next time,