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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Well, welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time.

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Speaker 3: Happy weekend, everybody.

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Speaker 2: It's coming to a close Sunday, August seventeenth, and we

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Speaker 2: have a stacked night of headlines. I'm Stephanie Leidecker, and

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Speaker 2: I'm here, of course with my favorite crime analyst.

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Speaker 3: Body Moven.

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong's Away Tonight. So Joseph Scott Morgan, our forensics

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Speaker 2: expert and host of Bodybags the podcast joins us because look,

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Speaker 2: it's scientific Sunday, everybody, and man, do we have a

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Speaker 2: lot to explore. There's some basic, real new developments in

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Speaker 2: this again Brian Coberger, Idaho student murderer's case. Some video

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Speaker 2: has been eventually leaked from him behind bars or of

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Speaker 2: him behind bars. Also there's that case in mon talk

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Speaker 2: about the fashion designer who was found dead on a boat.

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Speaker 3: We're going to unpack that.

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Speaker 2: Joseph has some inside scoop also on the forensic's there

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Speaker 2: to explore and this case in Oregon the serial killer potential.

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Speaker 2: Joseph has been talking about this for a while now

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Speaker 2: it's all tracking. He is here to really fill us

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Speaker 2: in and unpack the details to what could be really

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Speaker 2: a serial killer in Oregon. He's been potentially charged with

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Speaker 2: four murders. This gentleman has claimed his innocence and Joseph's

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Speaker 2: about to jump in. So welcome Joseph Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 4: Hey, thanks for having my favorite night of the week

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Speaker 4: as many.

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Absolutely, I'll look forward to Sunday night hanging out

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Speaker 4: with my friends.

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Speaker 3: A chill Sunday.

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Speaker 2: Rights, a chill Sunday. So it's just say, just to

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Speaker 2: reframe it, this is a conversation. We are all gathered

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Speaker 2: around just to unpack some of the new developments that

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Speaker 2: came out over the weekend. If you want to jump

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Speaker 2: in and join the conversation, please do eight eight eight

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Speaker 2: three one Crime. You can leave us a talk back.

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Speaker 2: Just download the iHeartRadio app. It's free, push the top

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Speaker 2: right hand button, leave us a little message.

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Speaker 3: And you are on the show.

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Speaker 2: Or you could always hit us up on our socials

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Speaker 2: at True Crime Tonight Show on Instagram and TikTok, or

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Speaker 2: also on Facebook at True Crime Tonight. So listen, there's

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Speaker 2: no excuse, So if you have something to say, and

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Speaker 2: we hope you do, please join us. Yeah. So, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you guys have seen it, but there

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Speaker 2: is this video circulating of Brian Coberger, the killer in

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Speaker 2: the Idaho student murders. You know, if you've been following along,

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Speaker 2: he recently confessed to the murder of Xana Carnodle, Madison Mogan,

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Speaker 2: and Ethan Shapin and of course Kaylee Gonzalvez. He's behind

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Speaker 2: bars serving four life sentences and listen, he's just not

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Speaker 2: really enjoying prison life, even though he's in this macimum

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Speaker 2: security prison.

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Speaker 3: It's been tough. Listen.

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Speaker 2: He's by himself a lot twenty three hours and apparently

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Speaker 2: the inmates are making him crazy and they're you know,

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Speaker 2: they're kind of shouting and talking to him through the

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Speaker 2: bars and all of the tunnels in there so that

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Speaker 2: he can't sleep. So he's tired, and now there's been

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Speaker 2: this potential leak, some could say even a breach of

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Speaker 2: you know, prison conduct, but basically it's him behind bars

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Speaker 2: or in some portion of the facility, and you know,

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Speaker 2: he's just being weird.

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Speaker 3: Looking weird.

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Speaker 2: You see him kind of his hands are all red

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Speaker 2: stained and looks like he's kind of cleaning a shoe

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Speaker 2: or something.

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Speaker 3: And there's two sides, So what the chatter is.

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Speaker 2: One, how weird wires, hands so red. I think that's

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Speaker 2: probably from his hand washing habit. Two, you know, technically

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Speaker 2: this should not be leaked out to the public because

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Speaker 2: there are you know, violations in their security within these prisons,

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Speaker 2: so video isn't leaked. And then also, you know, some

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Speaker 2: are saying it's potentially AI.

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Speaker 3: So body, what do you think. I don't think it's AI.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's AI. And I actually never did

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Speaker 3: think it was AI. I saw it and I immediately said,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, that looks like medical hold. And the

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Speaker 3: only reason I say that is because you instead of

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Speaker 3: like there being like a cot like that that you

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Speaker 3: would expect to see in some in in a prison cell,

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Speaker 3: you know, like where they sleep, it's a it's a

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Speaker 3: it's a frickin' gurney, you know, and it's it doesn't

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Speaker 3: look like oh, so it is not his cell, you

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Speaker 3: don't know. I don't think so. I will sell I

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Speaker 3: don't think so. And it's worth noting too that lay

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Speaker 3: Talk County and Ada County both came out and said

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Speaker 3: it's not their jail. So if it's not Ada County

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Speaker 3: and it's not lay Talk County, then it has to

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Speaker 3: be the prison, right because that's the only other place

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Speaker 3: he's been. He's been in Pennsylvania, Ada County, and lay

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Speaker 3: Talk County, and I don't think it's Pennsylvania. So it

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Speaker 3: looks to me like it's before he gets it's like

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Speaker 3: where he's processing to be to be put into, you know,

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Speaker 3: the unit j where he's at now, it's where he

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Speaker 3: was before that, where he was processing. I think it

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Speaker 3: doesn't look like aie to me. He looks real creepy.

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Speaker 3: Can we just saw that too?

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Speaker 2: He looks like a real creep captain obvious to the

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Speaker 2: degree and why the reds.

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Speaker 3: There's like a little TV and like a little cage

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Speaker 3: that he's kind of looking at and he sets like

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Speaker 3: a tissue on a little shelf and then he's just

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Speaker 3: kind of watching TV and he's looking at his hands,

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Speaker 3: you know, and they're they are they are kind of red,

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Speaker 3: but it's hard. It's hard to see it, you know,

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Speaker 3: how red they really are. But you know, apparently he's

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Speaker 3: got like a hand washing addiction of some kind, and

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Speaker 3: so you know, if if, if that's true, it's possible

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Speaker 3: that you know, he's just washing his hands a lot. Joseph,

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Speaker 3: what do you make of that? Because I don't know

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Speaker 3: how to tell.

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Speaker 2: The difference, to be honest, between an aid first artificial

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Speaker 2: and tell really the artificial the trap relations who don't know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there was something about there was something about the

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Speaker 4: video to me that you know, sometimes with AI, and

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Speaker 4: again I'm not a computer scientist or you know, people

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Speaker 4: that produce these types of things, but with AI at

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Speaker 4: the stage that it's at right now, sometimes you can

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Speaker 4: look at it it almost looks like a cutout that's

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Speaker 4: been inserted. That's my eye, the untrained eye. This did

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Speaker 4: not have that appearance to me. It actually appeared to

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Speaker 4: be real to me. And you know, body, I was

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Speaker 4: asking you, you know, real or memory X man, I

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Speaker 4: don't know. I saw it and I was thinking, is

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Speaker 4: this the real thing? And I kind of feel like

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Speaker 4: that it is. This goes to a bigger issue though

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Speaker 4: for me, and it goes back to the scene. I

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Speaker 4: have this fhere, this abiding fear that there are going

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Speaker 4: to be AI things that are going to come out

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Speaker 4: that will pretend to be images from the scene, or

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Speaker 4: if this is a leak, which we've already talked about

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Speaker 4: multiple leaks along the way this case, our image is

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Speaker 4: going to be leaked from that scene that the police

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Speaker 4: don't have control over. Will will money play into this?

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Speaker 4: Money always plays into it relative to people that are

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Speaker 4: tempted with cash from some media outlet or some other

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Speaker 4: means nowadays where they can make revenue off of it.

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Speaker 4: I'm terrified that this is going to happen, and this

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Speaker 4: is just like a small taste of it.

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Speaker 3: I didn't even think about that.

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Speaker 2: And that's like the I guess the assertion that's being

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Speaker 2: talked about online right is that potentially somebody within the

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Speaker 2: prison took money in exchanged for getting some inside video

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Speaker 2: because this case has become so you know, infamous there,

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Speaker 2: I say, which is exactly what he wants. By the way,

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Speaker 2: that's an interesting point about it not being his prison cell,

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Speaker 2: because it's being noted as his cell online. And I

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Speaker 2: thought it looked a little nice too.

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Speaker 3: With me.

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Speaker 2: I kind of felt like I know a lot of

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Speaker 2: people who live in far smaller dwellings in New York

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Speaker 2: City and don't have a TV to access or shoes

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Speaker 2: to it kind of made me mad.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. I don't think it was a selling.

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Speaker 4: I think it was. Yeah, it's a sizeable it's a

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Speaker 4: sizeable space. When you consider this, and this is supposed

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Speaker 4: to be you know, they use the term solitary. You know,

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Speaker 4: you always think about solitary when you go into these

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Speaker 4: these places and you see them, which I've had to

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Speaker 4: work cases inside of prisons, and they're very it's it's

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Speaker 4: very claustrophobic when you go in there, you know you

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Speaker 4: and again he's hearing voices coming through the events as well,

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Speaker 4: and I don't you know, it's not necessarily that their

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Speaker 4: voice is like he's here, he's a magic These are

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Speaker 4: the inmates, the fellow incarcerated individuals that are nipping atting

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Speaker 4: the entire time. You got to you got to consider something.

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Speaker 4: He's in with a group of people right now that

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Speaker 4: are well aware that he has murdered three women in

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Speaker 4: their sleep. One of the most gutless things that you

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Speaker 4: can possibly do. And let me tell you something, this population,

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Speaker 4: they might do a lot of things, they generally don't

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Speaker 4: abide that kind of behavior. So it's going to be

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Speaker 4: a rough road.

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Speaker 3: Ahead for him to that point.

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Speaker 2: It's five hundred and thirty five violent men who are

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Speaker 2: in this prison for very dark circumstances. By the way,

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Speaker 2: the prison is doing an investigation and you know, has

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Speaker 2: not come out publicly in any way and says they'll

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Speaker 2: do a very thorough one at that. But again, also,

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Speaker 2: you know, people who are on death row are also housed,

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Speaker 2: you know, within this prison. So this is real and

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Speaker 2: this group of people exactly were really waiting waiting for

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Speaker 2: mister Coburger to arrive on the red carpet if you will, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, The IDoc, the Idaho Department of Corrections, is investigating

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Speaker 3: the origin of this footage. And it looks to be

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Speaker 3: like they have like they're recording that they took their

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Speaker 3: phone and they're holding it up to like the monitor. Right,

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Speaker 3: That's kind of what it looks like to me. So

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Speaker 3: they're investigating that. The prison officials reiterated that sharing security

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Speaker 3: footage is strictly prohibited and violators could face criminal prosecution

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Speaker 3: if you know, and termination if caught. You're listening to

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Speaker 3: True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk true crime

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Speaker 3: all the time. I'm here with Stephanie Leidecker. I'm body

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Speaker 3: moving and we are joined by the wonderful and great

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Speaker 3: forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan. And right now we're just

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Speaker 3: kind of talking about all the stuff that's come out

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Speaker 3: with Coburg. Over the weekend. You know, this weekend, I

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Speaker 3: took a trip, Yes, I did. You took a trip?

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Speaker 3: I did. I went to Oakland and India and I

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Speaker 3: sat and we watched Joseph Scott Morgan pretty much all weekend.

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Speaker 3: He was all over, all over if you have a treat,

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Speaker 3: he was. He was all over the place. And Idaho

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Speaker 3: State Police dropped a bunch of documents while I was

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Speaker 3: while I was traveling, and in some of these stuffs,

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Speaker 3: we got to talk about some of these documents.

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Speaker 2: Let's break it down because there has been this very

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Speaker 2: big in Where do you want to start?

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Speaker 3: I literally looked over at India and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I have to get these documents right now. And she

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Speaker 3: was like, it's your your onification. Just can you stop,

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Speaker 3: you know, And I'm like, no, we don't understand. I

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Speaker 3: need these documents right now. She's like, just relax. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So that is.

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Speaker 2: Relaxing because you want the information.

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Speaker 3: I want the information.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I've come home to this. I literally just walked

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Speaker 3: in the door, what an hour and a half ago,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I'm trying to make sense of some

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Speaker 3: of this. So the Idaho's State Police ISP apparently there's

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Speaker 3: six hundred new documents and I or six hundred pages

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Speaker 3: of documents that Brian Inton has and he has kind

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Speaker 3: of gone over some of the information that are in

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Speaker 3: these documents, and some of it's crazy. You guys, did

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Speaker 3: you hear I'm just gonna drop your highlight the high

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Speaker 3: well to get right. So one of his professors observed

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Speaker 3: like some troubling behavior and basically said, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: quote starting now, Coburger is smart enough that in four

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Speaker 3: years we will have to give him a PhD. Mark

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Speaker 3: my word, I work with predators. If we give him

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Speaker 3: a PhD. That's the guy that in many years when

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Speaker 3: he's a professor, we will hear he is harassing, stalking,

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Speaker 3: and sexually abusing. Now this is this is somebody at

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Speaker 3: WSU right staggering that a criminology professor of his who

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Speaker 3: worked with Coberger at WSU. That's pretty dramatic. Months before

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Speaker 3: the murders.

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Speaker 2: Pretty dramatic. And remember he had this incident in high

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Speaker 2: school that we're aware of. Please check out the Idaho Massacre,

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Speaker 2: the podcast that we make season two, also coming out

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Speaker 2: season three. Rather my goodness, got it all goes by

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Speaker 2: so quick? But again, yeah, like he had that incident

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Speaker 2: in high school. We know, Brian Coburger and we also

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Speaker 2: know that Joseph has been following this so so closely,

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Speaker 2: and this all tracks this guy was a potential psychopath.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this we already knew, but it's kind of

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Speaker 2: harrowing to see that in print.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, leading up to the trial, leading up to it,

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Speaker 3: that this guy is that they recognized, they knew there

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Speaker 3: was something odd about this guy. And you know Brian

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Speaker 3: Enton said that or was it Ashley Banfield, one of

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Speaker 3: the two, said he would basically trap people in rooms,

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Speaker 3: like block them from leaving, specifically women by the way

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Speaker 3: block with his body them leaving rooms. It's scary.

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Speaker 2: And listen, there's a lot of forensics to discuss. We

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Speaker 2: for starters have a lot to talk about and continue

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Speaker 2: to discuss in the Brian Coberger recent jump of information.

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Speaker 2: Also some new developments happening in Oregon. Joseph, you've been

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Speaker 2: talking about this potential serial killer in Oregon, So you're

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Speaker 2: going to unpack the forensics on that and also this

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Speaker 2: sterious death on a yacht in mon Talk. So that's

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Speaker 2: another one that we're going to start unpacking tonight as well.

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Speaker 2: But we also want to hear from you, so we

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Speaker 2: have a talkback coming up right here. Hey, ladies, it's

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Speaker 2: Stephanie from Pennsylvania. Listen more questions.

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Speaker 6: That other caller was talking about BK and the dog

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Speaker 6: and the dog not sleeping with Mattie. So I was wondering,

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Speaker 6: do you think that she was taking the dog out

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Speaker 6: to go potty and that's why she wasn't in the

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Speaker 6: room because you know, dogs have to go to the

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Speaker 6: bathroom at all different times.

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Speaker 3: It's a fair point, So a fair point. Bethany tells

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Speaker 3: us that around two thirty, shortly after Kaylee and Mattie

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Speaker 3: came home, that Bethany, this one of the surviving roommates

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Speaker 3: who was on the first floor, remember, took Murphy outside

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Speaker 3: with Mattie around two thirty and she said it was

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Speaker 3: too cold, so she came in and then she grabbed

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Speaker 3: some chips and went to her room and watched you know,

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Speaker 3: her iPad. And then a short time later Mattie came

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Speaker 3: down there and said, do you know where Murphy is?

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Speaker 3: I can't find Murphy, which is interesting. But then we

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Speaker 3: hear from Dylan that she heard around four in the

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Speaker 3: morning Kaylee going upstairs, up the stairs with Murphy, and

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Speaker 3: she knew it was Kaylee because Murphy. So no, we

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Speaker 3: don't think Mattie was out with the dog or Kaylee

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Speaker 3: was out with the dog. I still happened to think

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Speaker 3: that Kaylee was in her room the entire time and

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Speaker 3: walked into that room. I am one of many voices.

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Speaker 3: We can totally disagree on this. It's totally fine. I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to get angry that we disagree, but I

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Speaker 3: don't believe Mattie or I'm sorry, I don't believe Kaylee

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Speaker 3: was in the room initially. No, wow, great.

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Speaker 2: Question though, keep them coming that we want to keep

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Speaker 2: hearing from you. Eight eight eighty three one Crime And

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Speaker 2: before the break, you guys were discussing this new development

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Speaker 2: that one of Brian Coberger's former professors when he was

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Speaker 2: getting his PhD basically put in writing that he was

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Speaker 2: the guy that was ultimately if given a PhD degree,

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Speaker 2: that he'd be a predator potentially to students and to

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Speaker 2: real tell Joseph, what do you guys.

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Speaker 3: Think of this?

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Speaker 4: I tell you what for a second, let me take

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Speaker 4: my forensic hat on, yeah, and put on my professor hat.

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Speaker 4: About to start our first week back at university this

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Speaker 4: week at jack State, and I literally have a brand

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Speaker 4: new grad assistant. I've had my previous one for two

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Speaker 4: and a half years. I know her, but I don't

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Speaker 4: know her okay, and it's going to take me a

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Speaker 4: while to get to know her. Is she and I

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Speaker 4: work together. The fact that this professor wrote this comment

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Speaker 4: about this individual will and they were able to assess

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Speaker 4: that much information or suss out that much information about

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Speaker 4: this subject, and he had only been there since July,

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Speaker 4: and they're making predictions four years into the future based

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Speaker 4: upon current behavior is mind blowing to me, because you know,

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Speaker 4: they're supervising multiple people, and this guy stands out in

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Speaker 4: the crowd. I don't know how many other doctoral candidates

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Speaker 4: they have, and they're going to have other doctoral candidates

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Speaker 4: at various stages in their candidacy, if you will, as

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Speaker 4: they're making it through, and this essential nobody who has

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Speaker 4: just come in. They're able to project this that far

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Speaker 4: into the future. That's kind of a bold statement to me.

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Speaker 4: I don't know that means. To me, that means that

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Speaker 4: he made an impression. And also and quick, this is

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Speaker 4: a very dark impression too.

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Speaker 3: And quick too, right, like he was only there in July,

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Speaker 3: like you said, the murders happened in November. And it's

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Speaker 3: for these who are just joining us. This is what

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Speaker 3: the professor said. Coburger is smart enough that in four

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Speaker 3: years we will have to give him a PhD. Mark

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Speaker 3: my word, I work with predators. If we give him

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Speaker 3: a PhD. That's the guy that in many years when

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Speaker 3: he's a professor, we will hear he is harassing, stalking,

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Speaker 3: and sexually abusing. And that's what a WSU professor said

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Speaker 3: about Brian Koeberger months before the murder. So this in

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Speaker 3: a very short time. To Joseph's point, this professor sussed

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Speaker 3: out Brian Coberger and called him out.

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Speaker 2: How does he get the job in the first place, though, Joseph,

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Speaker 2: you've discussed this with me for a very long time.

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Speaker 2: By the way, Joseph's a very distinguished professor himself. So

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Speaker 2: to get your PhD, it's a big deal, right, You

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Speaker 2: almost have to choose the person you're going to study

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Speaker 2: under and it's really prestigious to be able to be

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Speaker 2: in the seat he was, and you have to be selected.

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Speaker 3: It's not it's no joke.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, undergraduate and to to a less degree,

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Speaker 4: master's degrees. You kind of go because you you have to,

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Speaker 4: you know, whatever feel that you're in to master it.

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Speaker 4: You do PhD. And this is this is the ultimate

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Speaker 4: in learning, and it's generally a student that selects where

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Speaker 4: they want to go. Now, you hope that these people

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Speaker 4: will select you, but you have enough knowledge now that

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Speaker 4: you choose the person you want to literally study under

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Speaker 4: and serve. Keep that in mind too. You have to

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Speaker 4: serve these individuals while you're there because you're helping them

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Speaker 4: with research. You're learning how to be a professor and

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Speaker 4: do their research because you're doing their research for them.

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Speaker 4: All right, Just understand that they'll direct you. So the

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Speaker 4: fact that he got he had some talent for this

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Speaker 4: apparently or they would not have selected him. And the

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Speaker 4: fact that he got chosen for this, they're paying him.

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Speaker 4: By the way, this is a paid g oh and

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Speaker 4: by the way, you get free tuition as well. So

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Speaker 4: that's all covered. Yeah, that's all covered for you, and

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Speaker 4: they only select a few individuals that get these positions

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Speaker 4: because look, you're handcuffed to this person for the next

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Speaker 4: four or five years. They're going to be in your department.

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Speaker 4: You better choose well.

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Speaker 3: I wonder, I wonder how the person who wrote his

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Speaker 3: recommendation letter for this program feels from the sales.

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Speaker 4: I've wondered about this, and generally there are multiple, multiple

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Speaker 4: recommendation letters. It's not just one. Most for most programs

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Speaker 4: you're going to need about three or four. And there's

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Speaker 4: been something that has floated about I heard again this

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Speaker 4: is hearing WSU was apparently one of the programs that

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Speaker 4: did not require you to have a GRE, which is

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Speaker 4: the graduate entrance program. And then there was another one,

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Speaker 4: I think in Cali that he had applied to. And

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Speaker 4: you know, I don't know. I hate it taking the GRE.

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Speaker 4: It's part of It's like getting you know, your gum scrape.

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Speaker 4: It's horrible. It's worse than the SAT. But it's one

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Speaker 4: of those things that you know, you look forward that

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Speaker 4: you know you're trying to lessen the pain. Here will

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Speaker 4: they buy me based upon the research that I've already

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Speaker 4: done in order to get into the doctor program? And

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Speaker 4: that's you know, he's having to sell hisself that way

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Speaker 4: as opposed to, you know, doing standardized testing.

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Speaker 3: Right, you also need a true crime. Tonight on iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 3: I'm Boddy Moving and I'm here with Joseph Scott Morgan

392
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Speaker 3: and Stuffy Myducker and we're talking about the latest updates

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Speaker 3: in Brian Coberger. There's been a new document dump. I

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Speaker 3: haven't been able to go through them myself, but we're

395
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Speaker 3: kind of just talking about them right now. I was

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Speaker 3: on the little trip and I just got home, so

397
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Speaker 3: I haven't had a chance to like sink my teeth

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Speaker 3: into them, but I promise you it's coming.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: I have a few that I was curious about, apparently

401
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 2: on October twenty twenty one, if there was a break

402
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Speaker 2: in in a sorority house.

403
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Speaker 3: Yes, I have the audio.

404
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Speaker 2: Potential assailant dressed in black wielding night. Yeah, that's one

405
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Speaker 2: I'd like to discuss, by the way, if anybody wants

406
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Speaker 2: to join us.

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Speaker 3: Eighty eighty three to one crime.

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Speaker 2: Also the fact that he had eighteen contacts in his phone,

409
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Speaker 2: eighteen and his mother that he called, she's saved in

410
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Speaker 2: his phone. I don't know why I thought this was

411
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Speaker 2: so weird mother as mother and father as opposed to

412
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Speaker 2: like dad or what have you.

413
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Speaker 3: It was just and when he talks to like the

414
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Speaker 3: mourning of the murders. We know that he texted his mom.

415
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Speaker 3: She didn't respond, so he texted again, and when she

416
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Speaker 3: didn't respond, he texted his dad and he said, father,

417
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Speaker 3: why isn't mother answering? That's how he addresses them. It's

418
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Speaker 3: he's dissociated a little bit.

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Speaker 2: It's so weird, you know, And he's not connecting the dots,

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Speaker 2: which is a real sign of psychopathy, right. They lack

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Speaker 2: an empathy, a lack of human connection and ability to

422
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 2: sort of have real human emotion essentially, which is why

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Speaker 2: you could kill without remorse or confessing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in these eighteen contacts too, some of them didn't

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Speaker 3: even have a name. It was just like girl I

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Speaker 3: went running with or guy with the hair like, they

427
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 3: didn't even have a person's name. It's just discreeted.

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Speaker 2: And remember he wanted to be a cop, so you know,

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Speaker 2: fortunately he got booted from that program because also he

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Speaker 2: was being a weirdo.

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Speaker 3: Now years later he.

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Speaker 2: Resurfaces, getting his you know, PhD in criminology act. In

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00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 2: all kinds of weird again. The walls were closing in

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Speaker 2: on him. He was going to lose that said scholarship

435
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 2: that we talked about earlier, Joseph, because this guy wasn't

436
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 2: fit in the bill. His teacher, his criminology professor of minutes,

437
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: is already identifying him as a potential predator. This is

438
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: somebody who had the signs right even just seeing that

439
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: potential video from behind bars in the facility he's in.

440
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 2: Now you know, him rubbing his hands together so much

441
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 2: that they're red already, just because he's it's there's such

442
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 2: a scariness to it.

443
00:23:58,920 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 3: I can't write play.

444
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is a scariness to it. But here's the thing,

445
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 4: and when when you have kids that come into your

446
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 4: world in academia, they're only there for a short period

447
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 4: of time. The idea that you're going to because my

448
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 4: colleagues and I talked about this frequently, and I've discussed

449
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 4: this at crime Con as well, where you know, with

450
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 4: not on stage, but with people you know, are you

451
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 4: afraid you're teaching people things that they should not know, right,

452
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 4: hidden knowledge? If you will, There's no way that you

453
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 4: can evaluate the future behavior on an individual when you're

454
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 4: in charge of a whole classroom of kids that are coming.

455
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 4: I don't remember half of their names, you know, most

456
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 4: of the time, much less unless they really act out

457
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 4: to the point where they're disruptive, that's most of the time,

458
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 4: or unless they're a stellar student that you know, is

459
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 4: an honors program and all these sorts of things. Yeah, yeah,

460
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 4: and yeah, they have to be they have to be impressive.

461
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 4: And it's not that I'm arrogant, it's just it's a

462
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 4: competitive environment, and so it's it's one of these things

463
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 4: where you're not going to queue into it. So going

464
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 4: when I think about back at the sales and I

465
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 4: think about Catherine Ramsel, you know, people have, you know,

466
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 4: have made some kind of bad comments about her. How

467
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 4: in the hell is she going to predict what he's

468
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 4: going to do down the road. Catherine couldn't see what's

469
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 4: coming on any level whatsoever. She's not superhuman. She's a

470
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 4: great professor and a great researcher, and she's cutting edge

471
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 4: with a lot of her stuff. But you know, she

472
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 4: couldn't have predicted this. Nobody could have.

473
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 3: No, it's not her.

474
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 2: Fault at all, Joseph, You've been talking about this for

475
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: a while now, and it's tracking and we really want

476
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: to hear your deep dive into some of the forensics,

477
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: and hopefully we get to this, and if not, we

478
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 2: will tomorrow.

479
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 3: This mysterious death.

480
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: Of the fashion designer found dead on a yacht on

481
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: mom talk very close to where I grew up. I

482
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 2: used to go please dover in there, so yeah, I

483
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: know the area well, and yeah it's an area really

484
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 2: close to my heart.

485
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 3: So we'll get to that.

486
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 2: If for some reason tonight gets away from us, because

487
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: you guys are just talking so much, we want those

488
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 2: talkbacks eight eight eight three one crime. Come on, give

489
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 2: us your opinions. Download the iHeartRadio app, push the button

490
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: at the top right, leave us a message in boom

491
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 2: you're on the show, or hit us up on our

492
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: socials at True Crime Tonight's Show, on Instagram, in TikTok,

493
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 2: or on Facebook to my mom who's listening. My stepdad

494
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 2: is having surgery in the morning, so let's all send

495
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: him lots of love.

496
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: He's going to be great.

497
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 2: We do want to hear from you, though, so you

498
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 2: can also reach us on Facebook at True Crime Tonight's show.

499
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 2: So back to it. We have a talkback right now.

500
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 7: Hey, y'all, I was sitting here listening y'all talk about

501
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 7: the door dash driver, and I was really curious, what

502
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 7: if what Bethany thought she heard or splash she saw

503
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 7: was from the door dash driver taking the picture, dropping

504
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 7: it off. She's just drinking and stuff in time, you know,

505
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 7: I don't know what.

506
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: Are your thoughts? Oh yeah, I mean that's the first

507
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: and foremost.

508
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. Yes, no, And that's a reasonable that

509
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 3: a lot of people think that. Actually a lot of

510
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 3: people have said, oh, it's probably just you know, when

511
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 3: they leave your food at the porch, they take a picture.

512
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 3: If Xana had to open the door at that moment,

513
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 3: you know, then maybe that's the flash Bethany saw because

514
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: her her bedroom is on that first floor. Right, Yeah,

515
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 3: it's a good call, It's yeah, it's very reasonable. However, however,

516
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 3: that would that would mean that the DoorDash driver would

517
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 3: have run Intosanna at some point that night, and there

518
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 3: is no evidence of that. The DoorDash driver says she

519
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 3: never saw them. She got lost a little bit, you know.

520
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 3: There there's not one of those photos, you know, of

521
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: Xanna grabbing her food, So there's basically there's no evidence

522
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 3: that that front door was ever opened. When that door

523
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 3: dash driver was there.

524
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, to validate what you're saying, body, the uh. In

525
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 4: that CCTV image that was released on the street you

526
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 4: can see this and truly, my heart breaks for the

527
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 4: it's just such a sad story.

528
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: Mouth.

529
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and she's walking up and if you can see

530
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 4: her walking up and down the street and she's actually

531
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 4: looking at her like yeah, and and listen, I got

532
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 4: to tell you that area is very confusing.

533
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: Well, the house is technically.

534
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 4: On Queen right, right, so yeah, everybody refers to but yeah,

535
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 4: it's actually on Coin legally.

536
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 3: It's on King though, like the way the parcels. Yeah,

537
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 3: so it was confusing and she got a little loss.

538
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 3: So there's no here's the thing, there's no chance that

539
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: the DoorDash driver was taking a photo with her fly,

540
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 3: let's say, at the same time Xanna was opening the

541
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 3: door for the flash to seep through to Bethany's. But

542
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: I will say it's a great talk back. A lot

543
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 3: of people have come up with that as a you know,

544
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 3: maybe maybe maybe, but it doesn't seem to be. It's

545
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 3: weird too.

546
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 2: I always assumed, do you know, when you're like laying

547
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 2: in your bed and somehow a car is driving around

548
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: the house and their lights kind of roll through your house.

549
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 3: It's scary, you know.

550
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 2: So the only difference here is this was kind of

551
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: a cult to sack, so you really had to be

552
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 2: intentional about driving down this road. You know, it wasn't

553
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 2: a through way if you will, like you had to

554
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: kind of you would have to go there to deliver

555
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: a package or if you were the DoorDash driver. By

556
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: the way, thank god she's survived. Yes, this is a

557
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: woman who really brushed with death and you know, thankfully

558
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: lived to tell the tale. So I guess that doesn't

559
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: really attract either, because there wouldn't be a lot of headlights.

560
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 4: Kind of.

561
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 3: It could have been the DoorDash driver leaving though, like

562
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 3: pulling up and making a three point turn kind of

563
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 3: situation getting out of there. It could have been that.

564
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 3: It could have been it could have been that. I

565
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 3: just don't think it was her on her phone taking

566
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 3: that makes sense, I, you know. I I love the

567
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 3: idea though, and you know, keep those talkbacks coming because

568
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 3: those are the kinds of ideas that it's one day

569
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: we're gonna be like, oh my god, that has to

570
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 3: be it, right, Like that has to be it but

571
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 3: we just haven't haven't gotten there yet. This is True

572
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 3: Crime Tonight on Iheartrader. We talk true crime all the time.

573
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 3: I'm body movin And I'm here with Stephanie Lydecker and

574
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: the wonderful and expert forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan. And

575
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: right now we're talking about the latest updates that have

576
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: happened over the weekend in the Brian Coberger case. Again,

577
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 3: the Idaho State Police dropped a bunch of documents, which,

578
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 3: by the way, I have not gotten an opportunity to

579
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 3: get my little grubby hands on, but I will on you. Yeah,

580
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 3: I you know, it's so funny. I'm on vacation. That's

581
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 3: all I can think about. I got to get these documents.

582
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: I gotta get these documents. Have to get you better vacations,

583
00:30:59,600 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: you know.

584
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: INDI take a time out, like I want you to

585
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: be doing the COMPLI yeah, put your phone down, have

586
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 2: a margarita, call it a day so you get fresh

587
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: minded Indian night.

588
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 3: It's like our idea of a good time is sitting

589
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 3: on the couch being total sloths, eating popcorn, watching bad TV.

590
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 3: This and that's what we did. It was perfect. That's

591
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 3: not a vacation.

592
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's just now every perfect that's every weekend

593
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: for me.

594
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: So what that makes sense. That's just a day in

595
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 3: the life. Don't tell.

596
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: But again, like these documents are coming out, and I

597
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: mean some of it's a little less surprising, but I

598
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: think where it's noting. You know, for example, on Christmas

599
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: Day he was doing a lot of searches of serial killers,

600
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: et cetera. Now, again, this is a guy who was

601
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: studying criminology. Is that particularly strange. I don't know, it

602
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 2: doesn't really seem very festive, if you will, But that's

603
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: been noted in here quite a bit. And also, Joseph,

604
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the two hundred

605
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: crime scene photos that also or are being shared. You know,

606
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: the family has been pretty outspoken, you know, throughout all

607
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: of this mess about how undignified these you know, photographs are,

608
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: and that they really shouldn't be shared so wildly. I'm

609
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 2: curious what your thoughts from a forensic standpoint on that is.

610
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 4: Am I surprised? No, I mean, any listen, it all starts.

611
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 4: It all starts with the people that are kind of

612
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 4: heading this thing up. Anybody that would send a family

613
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 4: an email that's right, tell them that's right. Photos are

614
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 4: the least of this. You're you're You're not going to

615
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 4: include them in in the decision. I feel very strongly

616
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 4: about this. On the other hand, I can look at

617
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 4: from the police perspective that they want to be able

618
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 4: to control the flow of information that's going to go out.

619
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 4: I have. I do have a big fear, like I

620
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 4: stated earlier, that something will either be generated and we're

621
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 4: going to be doing this thing where we're jumping from

622
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 4: the left foot right foot to try to say if

623
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 4: it's AI or not right, or somebody is going to

624
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 4: be tempted by money that's inside of the agency. I'll

625
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 4: tell you one questions I want to answer that still

626
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 4: hasn't been answered. I don't know where it's going, and

627
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 4: that is who was the leaker? Who is the leaker

628
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 4: that leaked to all of that information out prior to

629
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 4: all of this. And remember the judge said that he

630
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 4: I mean, let me get it straight. I think the

631
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 4: judge told the prosecutor that he wanted a special investigation

632
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 4: into this. Hadn't heard peep about that, have you, guys?

633
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: I have note, that's a really good question. Boddy, you

634
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: have what is the update there?

635
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 3: So the Bill Thompson and detective one of the detectives,

636
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 3: I can't remember which one it was now I think

637
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 3: Gilbertson met with Kevin Fixler from the Idaho Statesman, who,

638
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 3: by the way, is doing excellent reporting on this case, tremendous, tremendous,

639
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 3: excellent reporting. And Bill Thompson said, yeah, there's a special

640
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 3: prosecutor that's appointed, and that the judge and the state,

641
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 3: which of course is Bill Thompson and the defense won't

642
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: get updated on it and they don't know the status

643
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,239
Speaker 3: of it because they're not part of this investigation. There

644
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 3: are the ones that are being investigated. So there is

645
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 3: an investigation ongoing. We don't have any updates on it,

646
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 3: and nobody else does either, and when we do, we do,

647
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 3: but right now there's no there's no updates on it.

648
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 3: But they are going to find the person. And listen,

649
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 3: it's going to be more than one person, because you know,

650
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 3: there's the Howard Bloom leaks that happened with Howard Bloom,

651
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 3: There's the James Patterson leaks that happened with James Patterson.

652
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 3: There's the Dateline leaks that happen with dateline. You know,

653
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 3: there's several different leaks along the way.

654
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: So can I ask one unpopular question, do those leaks

655
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 2: mean he confessed, meaning.

656
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 3: We hate those leaks?

657
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 2: Right, they were all up in arms about everything else

658
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: one you just mentioned, but then he did confess. Do

659
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 2: you think because of those said leaks that you know,

660
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 2: Brian Coburger realized, Wow, I'm not going to win thing.

661
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 2: There's no chance in hell I'm going to get away

662
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 2: with this, and I'm going to find myself on death row.

663
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: And that's why he ultimately confessed in the eleventh hour.

664
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 3: That coward. I mean, you know, maybe, but I think

665
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 3: it tends to be more that the third party, you know,

666
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 3: calpability was denied. His alibi was a joke. I think

667
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 3: it basically what was happening was every motion the defense

668
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 3: was bringing, like we want to start blaming these people.

669
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 3: This is the alibi, we want to challenge the DNA,

670
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: we wanted. Everything was being denied by the by the

671
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 3: judge and the last Hail Mary. You know, the judge

672
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 3: denied it and said the last best offer has to

673
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 3: be in at the end of July, and here we

674
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: are now. I just think it was he was at

675
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 3: the end of his rope with all.

676
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 4: His I can. I can also see it from the

677
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 4: perspective of a of some media outlet thinking that they're

678
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 4: going to be, you know, the white night riding in

679
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 4: on the steep. It's going to uncoverage, you know, they're

680
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 4: going to be the next brand, the star or whatever,

681
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 4: and they're going to go out there and they're going

682
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 4: to say, I'm going to be the hero. I'm going

683
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 4: to pry this information loose, will expose it and he'll

684
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 4: have to roll over, you know, like it's some kind

685
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 4: of serialized tele This is real life. This is not television.

686
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 4: And I think that that line gets blurred very frequently.

687
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 4: If if that comes out, I think that that nothing

688
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 4: will happen. I don't think relative to any kind of

689
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 4: news agency, but I think that there needs to be

690
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 4: a warning shot fired over the over the bow of

691
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 4: individuals within agencies that decide to do this, because this

692
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 4: you have a huge problem here if this goes sideways

693
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 4: on you, I mean, and I don't I don't think

694
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 4: people fully appreciate what could have happened. I think those

695
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 4: of us that are you know, have a background in

696
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 4: forensics and work these cases. As investigators, we know what

697
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 4: could have happened, and the fact that somebody on the inside,

698
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 4: if there was somebody on the inside, did it. Shame shame.

699
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 4: We'll find out hopefully. Yeah.

700
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 3: Wow, you have the potential to affect the jury pool, right, Yeah,

701
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 3: get the trial pushed mm hmm. You have the potential

702
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 3: to give the defense time. Yeah. Or maybe there's like

703
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 3: inculpatory evidence that they the state doesn't want the public

704
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 3: to know about yet, right, like, you know, especially if

705
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 3: there's evidence that links him to other crimes. You know,

706
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 3: just s don't want that stuff out there yet, you know,

707
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 3: he presented.

708
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, look to use a gambling analogy. The media is

709
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 4: playing with house money. They got nothing to lose, get

710
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 4: everything to gain. Who knows?

711
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 2: The hands are in the air in the studio, it

712
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: is flying by. I am Stephanie Leidecker here with Body

713
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 2: Move In and tonight, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert in

714
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: host of Body Bags the podcast is joining us to

715
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 2: unpack forensics about Brian Coburger and the recent developments with

716
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 2: new information that the police are basically sharing with the

717
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: public and also this Oregon potential serial killer again, a

718
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: case that Joseph has been talking about behind the scenes

719
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: for a while now, so he's going to unpack that

720
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 2: as well. And we want to hear from you eight

721
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 2: eight eight three one crime but also very very important.

722
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: And Joseph, this one's close to your heart. Out of

723
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 2: New Orleans. There's a missing person that we want to

724
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: alert to the public and maybe we can all kind

725
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 2: of come together and be actionable and hopefully find some

726
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 2: find some new information.

727
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 3: Joseph, do you want to share a.

728
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 4: Little Yeah, dude, this case is coming out of an

729
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 4: area called East New Orleans, New Orleans, the East as

730
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 4: locals refer to it. If you've ever come into New

731
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 4: Orleans on Autien, you're passing the all six flags that

732
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 4: was wiped out at Katrina. It's kind of in a

733
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 4: I hate to say desolate, but it's in kind of

734
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 4: a questionable area. A lot of swamp land around there

735
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 4: surrounding this area. And we're talking about a young man,

736
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 4: a young kid, twelve years old, Bryon Vasquez, and he

737
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 4: was reported missing at ten am back on August fourteenth.

738
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 4: Now here's the thing, and you need to keep this

739
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 4: in mind. This child suffers from seizures, all right, and

740
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 4: he's got a neurodevelopmental disorder and he's nonverbal. The last

741
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 4: time he was seeing he was almost completely nude, with

742
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 4: the exception of wearing an adult diaper. That's kind of

743
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 4: his status and just kind of wandering about. So they've

744
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 4: got all points out looking for him, and anybody that

745
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 4: happens to come across him, anybody that knows anyone in

746
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 4: the area, please urge them to keep an eye out

747
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 4: for this child. I mean, he is completely defenseless out

748
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 4: in this world. And here's the phone number if you

749
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 4: want to reach out. It's area code five oh four six'

750
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 4: five eight six 'sh seven. Zero keep in, mind, AGAIN

751
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 4: i cannot emphasize what kind of danger he's in because

752
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 4: there is a lot of swamp land around. Here there's

753
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 4: a lot of canals that are easy to step off.

754
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 4: INTO i just pray for his. Safety keep the police

755
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 4: in your in your thoughts relative to, this and let's

756
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 4: help find this.

757
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 3: Child, Yeah i'm so glad you brought this to our.

758
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: Attention this is kind of the spirit of the whole show,

759
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 2: too just generally, speaking is, look we're stronger together and

760
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 2: sometimes we just have to get the word. Out so

761
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 2: for anyone. Listening, yeah please back to that number That

762
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 2: joseph just, shared and we'll be also putting that up

763
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: in our socials as. Well five zero four six five

764
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 2: eight six zero seven zero and please any new, information

765
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 2: and then we're going to come back in the next

766
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: hour also and be really unpacking This oregon. Thing, JOSEPH

767
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 2: i know you're chopping at the bit in this.

768
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 3: One go. AHEAD i just want to say really. Quick

769
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 3: brand is A hispanic male with brown eyes and black.

770
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 3: Hair he's about five one any weighs anywhere between eighty

771
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 3: six and one hundred, Pounds so he's just a little.

772
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 4: Kid he's a little. Guy, yeah he. Is he, is

773
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 4: and again, nonverbal so if you approach, him he's not

774
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 4: going to verbally respond to, You so be very, careful be,

775
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 4: gentle be, kind and just keep an eye out for.

776
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 3: Him, NOW i would imagine he would stand out like

777
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 3: a sore thumb, though walking around in an adult.

778
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 4: Tapers, YEAH i, don't you, Know and it would sound

779
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 4: that it sounds like he's not capable really of self.

780
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 4: Care and so that's a major problem. Here and yet it's.

781
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 4: Summertime you'd, say, well you, know he'll be, okay it's,

782
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 4: warm weather out. There, no it's insufferably. Hot and he

783
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 4: doesn't have water and so.

784
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: And he doesn't know how to ask for.

785
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 4: Water, no he. Doesn't and you know there's wildlife out,

786
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 4: there serious. Wildlife please keep your eye out for.

787
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 2: Him all, right thank you for Sharing Joseph's we're going

788
00:41:49,920 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: to be right. Back welcome back to True crime tonight On.

789
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio we're talking to crime all the. Time I'm Stephanie

790
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: leidecker here with crime Analyst Body Move, in And Joseph Scott,

791
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 2: morgan forensics expert and host of the Podcast Body, bags

792
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 2: joins us because look At Scientific sunday and if you

793
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 2: have missed any of the first hour of the, show no,

794
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 2: sweat just catch us right after on the.

795
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 3: Podcast and also, listen you gotta tell us what you're.

796
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 3: Thinking eight eight eight three one.

797
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 2: Crime please jump, in join the, conversation leave us a

798
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: talk back on The iHeartRadio, app hit us up on our,

799
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: socials or just call us live a little bit Like

800
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: cynthia From, Canada welcome to the.

801
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 3: Show we're so glad you're.

802
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 4: Here hi, there how everybody?

803
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 2: Tonight, hey miss how are you?

804
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 8: Hi this question is For. Joseph my question is did

805
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 8: the professor from the university have a duty of care

806
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 8: to any of the current students or future students that

807
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 8: may have come in contact With brian's through that program

808
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 8: that he was in doing his doctorate.

809
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 3: Degree good.

810
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 4: CALL i can't speak to what WSU's protocol is At Jack. State, yeah, if, oh,

811
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 4: yeah if we sense that there was a student that

812
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 4: is out of, control there are certain avenues that we.

813
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 4: Take SO i don't know how they handle it out,

814
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 4: there BUT i know that in my, world if there

815
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 4: was somebody that was presenting with disturbing, behavior and you

816
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 4: can't just blow this off and dismiss it as, well

817
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 4: he's a, student he's. Eccentric you, know he's going to study.

818
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 4: CRIMINOLOGY i know plenty of students that are. Eccentric i'm,

819
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 4: ECCENTRIC a lot of us professors. Are we're. Weirdos but

820
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 4: when it, rises when it rises to this, level that

821
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 4: that's your perception of the individual and you're going to

822
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 4: be trapping women against walls and sexual harassment. Stuff come, on,

823
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 4: man you know? That, well, yeah it's kind of. UNREASONABLE

824
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 4: i need.

825
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 3: LISTEN i got to get my hand on these. Documents

826
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 3: do we know what behavior the professor was referencing that

827
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 3: is a. QUESTION i, mean it's going to be hard

828
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 3: to answer, That, cynthia because, like do professors have like

829
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 3: an obligation to, report, Right like they're not mandatory, reporters

830
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 3: like in the sense that like they're not you, know

831
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 3: mandated by law to report, something but the faculty must

832
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 3: report if a student makes direct threats OR i look

833
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 3: this up in between breaks BECAUSE i was wondering we run.

834
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 3: Break by the, way are you And cynthia sharing the exact?

835
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 3: SAME i was, LIKE i wonder if THAT wsu professor is,

836
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 3: wondering like after the, murders was THAT wsu professor kind

837
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 3: of going, HMMM i wonder if.

838
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 4: Information did they have direct, information direct evidence that would

839
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 4: you know where they're making this. Assessment, now this is

840
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 4: just them arbitrarily opining about, something, Right that's different Than,

841
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 4: Okay i've seen how this guy acts around around women

842
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 4: and he's a. Threat, okay, now if that, occurs, yeah

843
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 4: you would push it through. Channels but if this is

844
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 4: just kind of you, know it's like they're writing a,

845
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 4: paper they're offering up an. Opinion, well even with, papers

846
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 4: you have to have substant, scientific you, know data that

847
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 4: you can back up this supposition with is that what?

848
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 4: HAPPENED i don't, Know.

849
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,919
Speaker 2: Cynthia great, question and make sure you keep calling. Back

850
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: we have missed hearing from you. Too you, know, INTERESTINGLY

851
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 2: i HAD i interviewed on The idaho. MASSACRE i believe

852
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 2: it was season, one season three dropping this week one

853
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 2: of his former students that was in his class before

854
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 2: the murders and w seater correct and you, know, look

855
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: you know we kept a lot of the stuff on

856
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: the editing room floor a because she wanted to remain.

857
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 2: Anonymous it was so scary.

858
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 3: Too at the, time it was not.

859
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 2: Proven his, judication it wasn't, adjudicated and it's not our

860
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 2: role to slander or affect a jury, pool so we

861
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 2: had to be really careful about what we aired and

862
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 2: what we. Didn't but, listen this was a female student

863
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 2: and she was creeped out by, him and there was

864
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 2: no question that he treated female students differently and that

865
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: he just had a weird way about. Him and after the,

866
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: murders he he was. Unshaven and again we're leading into,

867
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 2: finals so you could see how this could get explained

868
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: away either. Way but he seemed like a little more,

869
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 2: stressed a little more, tired a little, unshaven a little,

870
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 2: unkept but a little happier in his grading after the

871
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: murders versus.

872
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 3: Before he was like that stickler.

873
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 2: Guy and she basically would, say, like nobody really would

874
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 2: want to go to student hours or what is it, Called,

875
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 2: joseph you, know when you have to go see your

876
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 2: professor because you need a little extra help or you're

877
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: clear about one of the. Topics teachers, hours, right advisement.

878
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 2: Hours you know when you go see your you, know

879
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 2: your professor or your teacher's assistant after class because you

880
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 2: want more more info or you want to do better

881
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 2: on your, test et. Cetera and like nobody wanted to

882
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 2: deal with him because he, was you, know a CLASS a,

883
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: weirdo and we really know they call him a.

884
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 3: PSYCHOPATH i would really like to know why the professor said,

885
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 3: This like what behaviors specifically were they looking at or

886
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 3: were they were they tracking? It even for this professor to,

887
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,959
Speaker 3: say if we give him a, PhD that's the guy

888
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 3: that in many years when he's a, professor we will

889
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 3: hear he is, harassing, stalking and sexually. Abusing those are strong.

890
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 4: Words very, Strong and what was. It what was it

891
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 4: that you said earlier body about he, said HE i

892
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 4: Study what was?

893
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 3: It he, SAID i study?

894
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 4: Predators, yes, wow holy, SMOKES i mean that's.

895
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 3: That's it's in, lammatory, right.

896
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah it really is. Inflammatory so there's.

897
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 3: Got to be some. Evidence there's got to be something

898
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 3: right that that lets this or that gives the professor

899
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 3: the cone right to say something so strong like.

900
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 4: That this is a thread that runs through this entire

901
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 4: case where you've got this kind of you, know let's face,

902
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 4: it academia is not the real, world and so you've

903
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 4: got where the real world actually merges into this you,

904
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 4: know collegiate environment and this weird crossover that you have

905
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 4: where people are, thinking you, know this is like just

906
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 4: the homicides, themselves this cannot possibly happen. Here and then

907
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 4: you've got this input from professors that are saying things like.

908
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 4: This now it's like a. Shop they're not in a

909
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 4: correctional facility observing. Somebody this is an individual that they're

910
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 4: in charge of teaching and teaching them how to. Teach

911
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 4: so again we've crossed over into the surreal here in this.

912
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 4: Case it's one of the things that hooked me on

913
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 4: the case from the big the cases from the, beginning

914
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 4: because it happened at a. UNIVERSITY i was teaching a

915
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 4: university and it's so. Similar it's just super. Bizarre are super?

916
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 3: Bizarre, Yeah SO i WOULD i would really like to

917
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 3: know why this, professor what specific behavior is the reports of?

918
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 3: Him you, Know brian it was Either Brian Interner Ashley

919
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 3: banfield was saying that he would basically corner women in,

920
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 3: rooms like block them from exiting with his, body like

921
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 3: he was spatially trapping them in. Rooms and you, know

922
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 3: is it that behavior that made this professor say that

923
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 3: or is there more that we just don't know.

924
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 4: About we don't Know and let me tell you. Something

925
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 4: is there somebody who found it? Out Is brianton a

926
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 4: big shout. Out is one of the best of the. Business.

927
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 4: Now he is.

928
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 3: FANTASTIC i agree him And Kevin fixler have really from

929
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 3: from my, perspective really, risen you, know above the, fold

930
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 3: right like they they've just done a phenomenal. Job i'm

931
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 3: particularly particularly impressed With Kevin fixler and his reporting from

932
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 3: The Idaho. Statesman just. Fantastic but, yeah we're gonna have

933
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 3: To we're gonna have to and. See but, yeah there

934
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 3: is no professional mandate unless there's right this documented behavior

935
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 3: of him completely harassing. Everybody so, anyway stay. Tuned we're

936
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 3: going to keep following This Brian koberger stuff and it's

937
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,919
Speaker 3: going to keep coming out little by, little, dribbled blood.

938
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 3: Dribble so stick with us true crime. Tonight we're talking

939
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 3: true crime all the. Time you can give us a

940
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 3: call at eighty eight thirty One. Crime right, NOW i

941
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 3: think we're gonna shift a little bit if we don't

942
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 3: mind into you want to Do, ORGAN i, do.

943
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 2: Although we also have one more talk back if we

944
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 2: can jump to, that let's do.

945
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 3: It, Okay i'm, Down.

946
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 9: Hi, Everyone i'm a big fan of your. Show oh,

947
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 9: yeah and last week's, EPISODE i was looking to the

948
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 9: serial killer and organ you guys, discuss and his charges

949
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 9: are really interesting to. Me with all four, women he

950
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 9: was charged with second degree murder and abuse of a.

951
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 9: Corpse SO i was wondering what evidence could the prosecutors

952
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 9: have to lead them to those charges instead of something

953
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 9: else like first degree. Murder i'm excited to hear what

954
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:01,320
Speaker 9: y'all think about.

955
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 3: This by do we have? This is there a?

956
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 2: Spy i'm a Studio this is crazy by the, way

957
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 2: that's about what we're gonna jump to. Now, Essentially joseph's

958
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 2: here to literally discuss that. Case WE i swear we're being.

959
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 2: Tapped great, Question, JOSEPH i don't even. Know we can't

960
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 2: answer it with before setting it, UP i, guess, Right,

961
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 2: YEAH i got to set it.

962
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 4: Up pretty pretty, amazing, absolutely and it's going to be

963
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 4: fascinating to. Explore, Right so just.

964
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 3: A quick set the, table, right we can jump into it.

965
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 3: Now So Jesse Lee, calhoun he is the suspected serial

966
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 3: killer In. Oregon he has been, charged as the talk back,

967
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 3: said he's already been charged with three murders, again second

968
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 3: degree murder In portland And Southwest, washington and he has

969
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 3: pled not guilty to a fourth one they just put

970
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 3: on his plate and abuse of a corpse charge On august.

971
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 3: Sixth this is all very, recent you. Guys On august

972
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 3: so this, Year calhoun was indicted for the murder Of Kristin,

973
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 3: smith whose remains were found in back in twenty twenty. Two,

974
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 3: okay On august, eleventh he pled not guilty to the

975
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 3: murder or abuse of a corpse relative to that. Charge

976
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 3: calhoun was indicted last year in the deaths Of Charity

977
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 3: perry twenty, Four Bridget webster thirty, one And Joanna speaks thirty.

978
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 3: Two he remains in custody in The Moultoona County Ivernus

979
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 3: jail and his trial is expected to be held in

980
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 3: twenty twenty. Seven so we've got some. Time, listen we

981
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 3: have hi until twenty twenty seven to dig into this.

982
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 3: Case so let's take our. Time let's not rush through.

983
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 3: IT i want to get some of these, details and

984
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 3: we've Got joseph here to help us walk us through.

985
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 3: It so three women he's charged with In portland area

986
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 3: and dumping their bodies. Again he was indicted recently for

987
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 3: a fourth. Charge In august, sixth a grand jury indicted

988
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 3: him in The november of twenty twenty two death of

989
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 3: twenty two year Old Kristin. Smith the district attorney his

990
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 3: name Is Nathan. Vesquez he said during a press news

991
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 3: conference that that all. Happened he pled not guilty to

992
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 3: the new, charge one count of second degree murder and

993
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 3: one count of abusive a. Corpse, Now i'm not sure

994
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 3: why he's getting charged with second degree. MURDER i truly

995
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 3: don't know. Yet we're just kind of digging into this,

996
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 3: now but we'll find. Out he has pled not guilty

997
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 3: to all of. Them each of them is a second

998
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 3: degree murder. Charge i've already said that their bodies were

999
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 3: found over several, months starting in twenty twenty, three in wooded,

1000
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 3: areas like in a culvert and under a, bridge and

1001
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 3: it was roughly in like a kind of a small,

1002
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 3: area like one hundred square, miles which is pretty actually

1003
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 3: it sounds, large but it's. Not he was arrested in

1004
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,760
Speaker 3: the over the summer of twenty twenty three on unrelated,

1005
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 3: warrants so he was already in jail when he was

1006
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 3: indicted for these. Murders he was in jail and, unrelated unrelated.

1007
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 3: Crimes he was initially really least in twenty twenty, one

1008
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 3: a year, early because he helped fight. WILDFIRES a lot

1009
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 3: of these guys in jail will volunteer firefight and they'll

1010
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: get time taking off their. Sentence this is, crazy like

1011
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 3: he was released because of.

1012
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 4: That, well he was granted. Clemency, yeah and, yeah it's

1013
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,919
Speaker 4: pretty disgusting and look good on you if you want

1014
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 4: to fight. Fires BUT i don't know how much of

1015
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 4: a background check they did on this. Guy kind of,

1016
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 4: running you, know running through the numbers and seeing what

1017
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 4: he had done in the. Past but it's almost, like you,

1018
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 4: know when he, exited he started on this, journey horrible

1019
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 4: journey to kill these. Women very.

1020
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 3: True the quick pace of the murders that he's accused

1021
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 3: of committing after his release indicates that he felt. Invincible

1022
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 3: and guess who's telling us? That Catherine, ramsland who is

1023
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 3: Also Brian cowerer's.

1024
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 2: Professor and we are digging into This oregon. Case there's

1025
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 2: a potential serial killer in the timeline.

1026
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 3: Here he's kind of.

1027
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 2: Fascinating this guy has been. Arrested he's claiming. Innocence, however

1028
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 2: some of the forensics it's adding. Up so, body do

1029
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 2: you want to give us a little summary of this?

1030
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 3: Case so There's i'm gonna just do a timeline because

1031
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 3: it's going to go into What i'm going to be talking.

1032
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 3: About So Ashley, reel she's twenty. Two her murder is

1033
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 3: still under, investigation and he has not been indicted with

1034
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 3: this murder, yet BUT i kind of foresee it, coming

1035
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 3: So i'm gonna mention. Her, Okay Ashley, reel she was

1036
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,439
Speaker 3: last seen On march twenty seventh of twenty twenty. Three

1037
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 3: her body was found a few months later In may

1038
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 3: in a wooded area In Clackamus. County her death is considered,

1039
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 3: suspicious But calhoun has not officially been. Charged, Okay so That's,

1040
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 3: march and then we go To. April joanna, speaks she's thirty.

1041
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 3: Two her body was Found april, eighth twenty twenty, three

1042
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 3: inside an abandoned barn In Clark, County. Washington her clause

1043
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 3: of death was a blunt forced trout to the head and.

1044
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 3: Neck he was indicted for second degree murder and abusive

1045
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 3: of a corpse in that. Case Then april twenty, fourth

1046
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 3: so a couple of weeks, later in a culvert In

1047
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 3: Ainsworth State park east Of, portland there Was Charity Lynn.

1048
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,839
Speaker 3: Perry she was. Found she was twenty. Four. Okay he

1049
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 3: was indicted for second degree murder and abusive corpse in that.

1050
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 3: Case then four days, later a body was Found Bridget

1051
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 3: Leanne webster thirty. One you know This april thirtieth on

1052
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 3: a rural road Near Mill creek In Polk, County. Oregon

1053
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 3: the charges were filed and he was indicted for second

1054
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 3: degree murder and abusive corpse in that case as. Well

1055
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 3: so these all happen in rapid. Succession and right before

1056
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 3: the BREAK i had mentioned That Catherine, ramsland who was

1057
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 3: of course Famously Brian coberger's professor at the sales who you,

1058
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 3: know also wrote the book ON. Btk she's pretty, famous,

1059
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 3: Right she said the quick pace of these murders because

1060
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,280
Speaker 3: they happen in quick, succession there's a very very little

1061
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 3: cooling down period right in these cases that he felt

1062
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 3: invincible and says that this is what she, said he

1063
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 3: thinks he's going to get away with, it and so he's,

1064
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 3: escalating he's wanting to do it more and. More and

1065
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 3: she told this To Ashley. Manfield he may be developing

1066
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 3: sort of an addiction to. It so this pretty rapid

1067
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 3: fire is something that we're not normally seeing with siliary.

1068
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 3: Killers the cooling off period is usually, weeks if not.

1069
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 3: Months this was days, Days so it's it's very very.

1070
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 3: Interesting what do you guys think about that the rapid.

1071
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 2: Succession first of, all the idea of a cooling off

1072
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 2: period always gives me, chills just this idea of somebody committing,

1073
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 2: murder probably with the intention of doing it, again but

1074
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 2: then going back to their lives and sometimes they have

1075
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 2: families and they live in a community and they're upstanding

1076
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 2: and their air quotes cooling.

1077
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 3: Off to, me that is the scariest of scary.

1078
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 2: Because, then, yeah it's the guy sitting next to you

1079
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 2: at church or the you, know not really that that would,

1080
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 2: know you, know but it's just like there's a stranger

1081
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 2: or a boogeyman amongst, us and that is so scary

1082
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: that you could commit a crime so. VICIOUS i, mean

1083
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 2: messing with a corpse and this isn't getting any.

1084
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 3: More, disgusting AND i mean that could just be moving it, too, right, yeah.

1085
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 4: And also not taking due care with the human, remains

1086
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 4: so that's very. Disrespectful and again it goes to you,

1087
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 4: know treating humans as if they're refuse and, so and

1088
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 4: that's a big part of. This one of the things

1089
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 4: that's kind of fascinating to me about when it comes

1090
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 4: to speed is that would speed comes, Carelessness so.

1091
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 3: Especially if you're feeling, invincible, Right, yeah you're absolutely.

1092
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 4: Right steph mentioned. CHURCH btk was a, deacon right or

1093
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 4: an elder, church so, yeah he could have been seated

1094
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 4: right next to. You so when you think about these,

1095
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 4: INDIVIDUALS btk, though was very. Purposeful he planned for a

1096
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 4: long and he would have huge gaps in. Time this

1097
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 4: is not something he rushed. Into this guy rushing like

1098
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 4: this always gives me the impression that there's a potential

1099
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 4: for somebody to make a. Mistake AND i think that

1100
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 4: Doctor ramselin is correct in this idea of not cooling

1101
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 4: off and that there's it's almost like mainlining, adrenaline the

1102
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 4: urge to do. This all this stuff is sexually. CONNECTED

1103
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 4: i think he's on a sexual high probably or whoever did.

1104
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 4: This remember he's, charged he's not. Convicted but you, know,

1105
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 4: broadly you have to think body you had mentioned this

1106
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 4: kind of concentrated. Area most of these guys are NOT

1107
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 4: i hate to use his, term but it's a term

1108
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 4: that the you, know behavioral sciences people talk about they

1109
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 4: don't hunt outside of their. Area that's not always. True

1110
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 4: that has been proven wrong because THERE i have been

1111
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 4: those that go on the, road you, know outist, tool you,

1112
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 4: know all of these all these people over the years

1113
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 4: have done. That Ted bundy went on the, road all,

1114
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 4: Right so that doesn't always hold. True mostly, yeah, Famously

1115
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 4: and how did they? Select look at that brackets of age,

1116
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 4: Here look at these. Women i'd ask you the, age

1117
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 4: and it's a very kind of a narrow, thing maybe

1118
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 4: a decade. Difference and you, know top, end low end, relative.

1119
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 3: Yeah twenty, four thirty, one twenty, two they're, young, yea.

1120
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 4: Yeah and then you consider. Race they say serial killers

1121
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 4: don't hunt outside their. RACE i don't necessarily believe. THAT

1122
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 4: i think they. Will they're. Opportunists and also it's always

1123
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,919
Speaker 4: sex workers that want up being. Victims NOW i don't

1124
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 4: know what the background these.

1125
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 3: WANT i don't.

1126
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 4: EITHER i have no. Idea maybe he just yanked them

1127
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 4: off the, street or maybe they were. Involved but still

1128
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 4: you have these precious. Souls their lives have been ended

1129
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 4: and they discarded like, rubbish and you can learn a

1130
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 4: lot about the behavior of these, individuals how they treat

1131
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 4: the bodies. Afterwards word around the campfire at this point in,

1132
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 4: time What i'm hearing all right with my, sources some

1133
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 4: of these bodies are in an advanced state of, decay

1134
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 4: so you're going to be absent some critical. Information and

1135
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,919
Speaker 4: that goes back to some of these BODIES i think

1136
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 4: have been placed adjacent to watery areas with the culver

1137
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 4: that sort of. Thing there's one that was adjacent TO

1138
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 4: i think a, river If i'm not. Mistaken i'm really

1139
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 4: wondering if this guy's thinking about eradicating fiber evidence or

1140
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 4: any kind of trace evidence it's. ON i mean that

1141
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 4: area of the, country beautiful. AREA i love going up.

1142
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 4: There but, buddy does it rain so you don't necessarily

1143
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 4: have to have a body in, Water but if it's

1144
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 4: exposed like, this you can eradicate certain types of. Evidence

1145
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 4: but we don't know clothing status at this. Point you

1146
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 4: don't know cause of death at this, point we don't.

1147
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 3: Know only one we know about Is Joanna, sparks and

1148
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 3: it said blunt force. Traumas, okay she's.

1149
01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 4: The only, one only, one, yeah with.

1150
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 3: A confirmed public cause of. Death the others are confirmed,

1151
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 3: homicides but the methods have not been disclosed. Yet you

1152
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 3: prosecutors usually withhold those kinds of.

1153
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 2: Things and was that particular Victim Joanne? Sparks she was

1154
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 2: also in a location that was, unique, right she was

1155
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 2: In she was In, washington, right Not.

1156
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 3: Oregon, yes that's, Her, Yep, yeah her body was found

1157
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 3: inside an abandoned barn In, Ridgefield. Washington her cause of

1158
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 3: death is the only one we know, about and it

1159
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 3: says blunt force trauma to the head and next she's

1160
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 3: the only one we know.

1161
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 4: About CAN i give you a little insight into.

1162
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 3: Of, course because that's why you're here.

1163
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 4: With when you have a. Body, okay let's just look

1164
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 4: at this from a prosecutor. Standpoint they've connected these these

1165
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 4: cases and he's been. Charged, okay here's the. Thing they

1166
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 4: flipped the switch on this thing because feds are not

1167
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 4: going to be involved in he's crossed state, lines so

1168
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 4: all of the resources they're not going to have to

1169
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 4: be invited in at this point because if he he

1170
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 4: kidnapped this, woman took her over, there if he's crossing state, yeah,

1171
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 4: absolutely you flip the switch and now you're steering directly

1172
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 4: into the teeth of the federal government and all of

1173
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 4: the resources they. Have i'm not saying that That oregon

1174
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 4: And washington don't have great, resources but when you have

1175
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 4: an entire unit within THE fbi that is a behavioral sciences,

1176
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 4: unit and not to mention the lab At quantico and

1177
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 4: all the other assets they, have they're marching onto the field.

1178
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 4: Now so he's really put. Himself whoever the perpetrator, is

1179
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 4: has really put themselves in a very very precarious position

1180
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 4: here that makes me.

1181
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 2: Scared you, know COULD i just go back to one

1182
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 2: thing you just, Mentioned joseph THAT i hadn't heard, before

1183
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: that serial killers don't hunt outside of their race typically not.

1184
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 4: INTERESTING i don't necessarily agree with. That that has been

1185
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 4: stated over and over. Again you, know this kind of.

1186
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 4: Boilerplate you hear, It you hear it a lot outside

1187
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 4: they don't hunt outside their, race and all these sorts of,

1188
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 4: things AND i just don't buy into that all of the.

1189
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 4: TIME i don't think any of the stuff that they

1190
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 4: put out there is the. PARAMETERS i don't think any

1191
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 4: of it is as static as people believe it actually.

1192
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 4: Is and it's very broad broad. Strokes and it's amazing

1193
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 4: Because i've been involved with cases where they've been profiled

1194
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 4: and they were way off the, market off to mark

1195
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 4: a couple of. Times so it's not like it's gospel

1196
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 4: all right every single. Time it's mainly a place to,

1197
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 4: begin mainly a place to. Begin and you, know, famously you,

1198
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 4: know The atlanta child, murders which is very. Controversial there

1199
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 4: were a lot of people that got that. WRONG i

1200
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 4: Think John, douglas so you, know stated and he was you,

1201
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 4: know kind of laughed at for saying this that this

1202
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 4: is going to be An African american male that's committing

1203
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 4: these crimes because he was going into the projects In,

1204
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 4: Atlanta techwood homes doesn't exist, anymore and he was snatching little.

1205
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 4: Boys you, know how can you? Go you, know because

1206
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 4: a lot of people are saying The klan was doing

1207
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 4: this and a rod into into the projects in Downtown

1208
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 4: atlanta and snatch kid off the. Street.

1209
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 3: Joseph the same thing happened with The Grim. Sleeper do

1210
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 3: you guys remember The Grim? Sleeper he was killing black

1211
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 3: women in south Central Los angeles and they were, like you,

1212
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 3: know were you very rarely ever get An African american serial.

1213
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 3: KILLER i can't think of. One but they were, like

1214
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 3: it has to be a black, man and they were,

1215
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 3: right it was, wow, Wow Grim sleeper and it was

1216
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 3: like south CENTRAL. La, yeah that was a crazy. One

1217
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 3: well the last ONE i remember at.

1218
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 2: Least, continue LIKE i was going to, say, honestly is

1219
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 2: typically not typically not usually a white, male you, Know so,

1220
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 2: listen we're going to continue all of these conversations buzzing

1221
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 2: yeah right. Now SO i guess we're going to have

1222
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 2: to get to some.

1223
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:49,919
Speaker 3: Talkbacks.

1224
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 2: Even though school is getting going for, You, joseph, professor

1225
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 2: you still rock in the mal Of, bhutan which were you,

1226
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 2: know jealous OF i might add Any, yeah you're right

1227
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 2: fresh off a, BOAT i. Assume so, listen we're gonna

1228
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 2: have a little talkback roulette right. Now so the phones are.

1229
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 2: Buzzing let's go straight to our first.

1230
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 10: Talkback, HI i had a question For Joseph Scott. Morgan

1231
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 10: you guys covered the murder On Safari trophy wife case Last,

1232
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 10: sunday and they talked about how this, Guy Larry rudolph

1233
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 10: told everyone that a crocodile bit off his finger and

1234
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 10: then he started receiving disability for it because he could

1235
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 10: no longer perform as a. Dentist but a lot of

1236
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 10: people think that he shot off his own finger just

1237
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 10: to get these disability. Checks AND i was wondering If

1238
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 10: joseph had any forensic ideas about whether or not it

1239
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 10: was a.

1240
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 3: Crocodile that's a great.

1241
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 4: Question, yeah it truly. Is and first, OFF i saw the.

1242
01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 4: Image he was not bitten. Off it's still The i've

1243
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 4: never had any experience of. Crocodiles i've had a lot

1244
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 4: of experience with alligators In South, louisiana and SO i

1245
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 4: know what these injuries look, like particularly as it applies

1246
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 4: to post mortem. Feeding but he it looked to me

1247
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 4: the image THAT i saw From Trophy wife, excellent excellent.

1248
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,120
Speaker 4: Docu by the, WAY i thoroughly enjoyed. It it looked

1249
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 4: to me like a blast, injury and that, is, yeah it.

1250
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 4: Did it kind of had as if you're looking at the,

1251
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 4: wound if you're thinking about a clock, face it's really.

1252
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 4: Gruesome if you see the, image you, know if you

1253
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 4: don't have strong, STOMACH i wouldn't recommend to go look at.

1254
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 4: It but at like the if you look at it

1255
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 4: like a clock, face there's like THE i think it's

1256
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 4: either the two or three o'clock. Position there's it appears

1257
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 4: to be some singing that's going on there that you,

1258
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 4: know you only get like when a weapon is. Fired,

1259
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 4: okay when a weapon is fired and it's. Discharged if

1260
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 4: you've ever seen a weapon fired at, night it's pretty amazing.

1261
01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 4: THING i was in the army and they used to

1262
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 4: do a thing called a mad, minute and you burn

1263
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 4: up all your EXCESS amo at the end of the

1264
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 4: day when you're at the, range and it's always done at,

1265
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 4: night so you see nothing but fire coming out of

1266
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 4: the ends of. Weapon but that even happens with the smallest.

1267
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 4: Handgun you've got an element of fire and just for a,

1268
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:17,799
Speaker 4: millisecond it'll light things up and it, Burns, okay. Burns

1269
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:19,599
Speaker 4: so if you place a weapon that close to your,

1270
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:24,719
Speaker 4: hand a crocodile would have snapped his damn hand, off

1271
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 4: probably at the, risk if not at the. Elbow these

1272
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 4: things are. Massive and the fact that it only got

1273
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 4: his thumb while he's pulling a fish out of the

1274
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 4: water Ball and of course there were no witnesses to,

1275
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 4: it so that that ALWAYS i found it kind of.

1276
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 3: Human you can't, see But i'm making a face right.

1277
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:43,720
Speaker 2: Now, wait but, wait how do you survive an alligator or?

1278
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 3: Crocodile?

1279
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 2: Joseph since you seem to, know can you do you run?

1280
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 3: Zigzag is that?

1281
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 4: TRUE i don't. Know they move VERY i would not.

1282
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 4: Want people don't really realize how fast these things can

1283
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 4: run on land that and Beare i'm always amazing people

1284
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 4: that approach. Wildlife it's SOMETHING i don't. Understand they don't

1285
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 4: realize that a bear can run almost forty miles per.

1286
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 4: Hour in first you know you're not going to get

1287
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:10,719
Speaker 4: away from, it and alligators in, particular in my experience

1288
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 4: At South, louisiana they move very very. Fast i've seen them.

1289
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:16,719
Speaker 4: Movie it seems like they're moving. Slow but if someone

1290
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:18,599
Speaker 4: is being, chased AND i know people that have been,

1291
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 4: chased they look Like Carl lewis Chasing. Abia all, right

1292
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 4: you're not going to.

1293
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 3: War so this guy pointed a gun at his own

1294
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,640
Speaker 3: hand and fired a, JRIGGER i, mean thinks about the

1295
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 3: psychopathy that, like like can you? Imagine, yeah and then

1296
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 3: he got free money for.

1297
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 2: It so, yeah he got a bunch of cash and

1298
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,480
Speaker 2: did that for a really long. Time so, again, yeah

1299
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 2: very very. Bad thank you for the talk.

1300
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 3: Back that was a that was a good. One apparently

1301
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 3: we have a. Voicemail let's hear this.

1302
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 11: Voicemail oh, guys It's sarah the doctor again the, doctor

1303
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 11: and was laughing at the part where you all were talking,

1304
01:09:56,240 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 11: about you, know the pills In Marilyn monroe and you,

1305
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 11: know whether you can give yourself an enema and, Not

1306
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 11: and you absolutely can give yourself an. Enema it's really

1307
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 11: there's a lot of easy.

1308
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 3: Ways to do.

1309
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 11: It and we've been doing it in medicine for a long,

1310
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 11: time especially for people's like constipation or things like. That

1311
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 11: we use a lot of enemas for those types of

1312
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 11: things as well as you, know illicit drug. Use but

1313
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:23,599
Speaker 11: the pills being in her, colon like pills are made

1314
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 11: to degrade in your stomach and in your small intestine

1315
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 11: with all of the enzymes and things in. There so

1316
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 11: it would be unless you, know obviously would need to

1317
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 11: look more into, it but it would be very bizarre

1318
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:38,639
Speaker 11: to have pills or pieces of pills in your colon

1319
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 11: because your stomach acid and all the enzymes in your

1320
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 11: small intest and should break all that. Down, Anyway, bye

1321
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 11: love the, Show Love sarah The.

1322
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 3: Doctor, yes thank, you Doctor. Sarah that's a that's your

1323
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,599
Speaker 3: new official title on the, Show Doctor. SARAH i might be.

1324
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 2: Not ben sure enough to talk about. ENEMAS i don't

1325
01:10:55,960 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 2: know what the like repositories, really, yeah AND i literally

1326
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 2: am not sophisticated, enough but, yes it does, track AND

1327
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:08,799
Speaker 2: i think it is.

1328
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 3: SUSPICIOUS i don't. KNOW i, mean these pills in are

1329
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 3: colony THAT i don't.

1330
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:18,639
Speaker 4: Know, well a lot of it on if Doctor noguchi

1331
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 4: did what's referred to in, autopsy we do something called

1332
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 4: running the, bowel which means when you take the bowel

1333
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 4: out at, autopsy and we do this with every. Case

1334
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 4: you go right down the middle line of it and

1335
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 4: you open it up and you look at the surface of,

1336
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:33,720
Speaker 4: it and it's just what we. DO i, mean we have.

1337
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 4: To yeah and. Yeah if you were to find particulate

1338
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 4: bits of, drugs particularly in the in the, colon which

1339
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 4: is the large, bowel it would be highly. Irregular SO

1340
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 4: i think that if anything was placed in, her it

1341
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 4: would have to be in a gelatinous, form or maybe

1342
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 4: it was rendered down into a liquid till they could

1343
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 4: get it rendered down to that point where they could

1344
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 4: dose her with.

1345
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 3: It, well your listening To True crime tonight where we

1346
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 3: talk true crime all the. Time i'm by Move in

1347
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,680
Speaker 3: And i'm here With Stephanie Lai decker and the wonderful

1348
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 3: and very opinionated right Now Joseph Scott. Morgan, yeah and

1349
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 3: we're just firing. Talkbacks, adam if you want to weigh,

1350
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 3: in give us a call at eighty eight thirty One

1351
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 3: crime or send us your out talk back and, boom

1352
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 3: you're on the. Show let's hear another talk back For.

1353
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 12: Joseph, hi ladies And, joseph if you're still on the show.

1354
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 12: Tonight this Is liz From, washington like my forty eighth

1355
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 12: time calling, in but we love last night you asked

1356
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 12: about the line between tourism and, morbidity and what really

1357
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 12: is that? LINE i will say my personal opinion is

1358
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 12: just that if something is done for a historical, impact it's.

1359
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 12: Fine if it's done just for tourism and to get

1360
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 12: a rise and to earn a, dollar probably not if

1361
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:44,679
Speaker 12: you guys ever have the chance to go to any

1362
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 12: of the concentration. Camps as horrible as that, SOUNDS i

1363
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:51,679
Speaker 12: have been to Duckau in just Outside, Munich, germany, twice

1364
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 12: and it is the most humbling experience That i've ever.

1365
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 12: Experienced i've done it, twice LIKE i, said and it

1366
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 12: is one percent if you're ever In europe or anywhere

1367
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 12: else said something like that has ever. Happened BUT i

1368
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 12: just wanted to put that out. THERE i know That

1369
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 12: corney said that she's been to The Holocaust, museum but

1370
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 12: it's nothing like putting your feet on those.

1371
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 3: Stones you, right have a good, Night thank, you thank

1372
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 3: you so much for the talk ABOUT i think that's

1373
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 3: a really good, line, right if it's teaching us history

1374
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 3: or you, know shining a lens on, history especially history

1375
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 3: that we don't want to, repeat, right then it's not

1376
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 3: necessarily dark. Tororism but if you're just going to, see you,

1377
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 3: know Where Jeffrey dahmer did, something then that's you, know

1378
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 3: maybe the moral. Line AND, i you, KNOW i kind

1379
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 3: of agree with what she, Said, yeah thank.

1380
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 2: You it's really important to be in the place where

1381
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 2: it happens, sometimes, right, so you, know especially a concentration

1382
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 2: camp of.

1383
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,959
Speaker 3: That you, know it's words can't do, enough.

1384
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 2: Right there are no. Words so maybe experiencing that. Firsthand

1385
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 2: WHEN i first went To Los, ANGELES i drove By

1386
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 2: rockingham where, ojay oh did you really?

1387
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 3: Living and.

1388
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 2: Arrested how crazy does that make me a? Little pretty crazy?

1389
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 3: Happened BUT i.

1390
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 4: Went To Chateau marmon to see Where belushi had. Died oh, yeah, yeah.

1391
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 4: YEAH i was staying in a house Behind Chateau marma

1392
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 4: and went down, there walked, around you, know tried to.

1393
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 4: Visualize you can't really see the, area but you, know

1394
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:21,599
Speaker 4: just you, know because you hear about this your entire.

1395
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 4: LIFE i was a HUGE snl fan and a Big belushi,

1396
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 4: fan AND i was curious about. It you, know where

1397
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 4: is it and it's right there on the main. Drag but,

1398
01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 4: YEAH i, mean one of the most disturbing Places i've

1399
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 4: ever been personally was The American Pow, museum which is

1400
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:40,720
Speaker 4: located In, andersonville well outside Of America's, georgia but it's

1401
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 4: at where The Andersonville Prison camp, was where hundreds Of

1402
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 4: union soldiers were starved to. Death and it was one

1403
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 4: of the most disturbing Places i've ever. Been and it's

1404
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 4: kind of off the beaten, path but, yeah it's it's

1405
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 4: run by THE, feds and it's The American Pow camp Or,

1406
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 4: museum and it Was it's amazing with those what those

1407
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 4: brave servicemen went through and what they had to, endure

1408
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 4: and these deaths that they died were.

1409
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 3: Horrendous, well we had time for one more talk, back

1410
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 3: do we? Guys do we have to?

1411
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 10: Do?

1412
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, bring, okay let's do.

1413
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 5: It, kay, Ladies andrea From North. CAROLINA i look forward

1414
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:19,080
Speaker 5: to listening to you every morning on my morning. Walk,

1415
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 5: yeah AND i had a question ABOUT i didn't realize

1416
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 5: That madison had woken definitely up that she couldn't find her, dog,

1417
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 5: right is there a possibility that he was potentially in

1418
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 5: the home and did something To, murphy kept him in

1419
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:38,559
Speaker 5: a different, room and then waited for them to fall.

1420
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:40,880
Speaker 3: Asleep that's a personal working theory of.

1421
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:45,959
Speaker 2: Mine It's steph. Unsubstantiated But i've often thought that.

1422
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 3: A lot of you, know a lot of people think

1423
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 3: that it's possible that he basically Groomed, murphy you, know

1424
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 3: Like kaylee reported that she saw a man in her

1425
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,679
Speaker 3: backyard in the tree line and That murphy was acting

1426
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 3: kind of, strange and is it possible that he, was you,

1427
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 3: know Giving murphy. Treats you, KNOW i don't think that's necessarily,

1428
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 3: possible but it is interesting That maddie went down To

1429
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 3: bethany's room that, night and it was around probably around

1430
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:16,639
Speaker 3: three o'clock or, so and said that she couldn't Find.

1431
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 3: MURPHY i think that is very. INTERESTING i don't know

1432
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:21,880
Speaker 3: if it has anything to do with, anything but it's

1433
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 3: really the only context that we have is that she

1434
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:28,520
Speaker 3: couldn't Find. MURPHY i don't Remember murphy's the friendliest.

1435
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,679
Speaker 2: Dog by all, accounts it was a very popular house

1436
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:33,720
Speaker 2: with a lot of foot traffic in and, out so

1437
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 2: this wasn't like a yipper of a.

1438
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 3: Dog, now you, know they do say you, know.

1439
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:43,919
Speaker 2: Sometimes smaller pets can detract somebody from a home invasion

1440
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 2: because they're so erratic and like hard TO i can

1441
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:50,519
Speaker 2: say this from firsthand, experience hard to wrangle in a

1442
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:55,600
Speaker 2: moment's notice sometimes or in some larger. Animals this is

1443
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 2: going to sound, horrible but that they can be. Drugged you,

1444
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 2: know you can give them a shot because there's sometimes

1445
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:05,839
Speaker 2: like more like come to your feet and giving hugs

1446
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 2: and kisses and.

1447
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 3: WELL i will, say listening to the audio that we

1448
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:13,680
Speaker 3: got with the the ring cam footage basically from that,

1449
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:16,640
Speaker 3: night it sounds to me Like murphy's in. Distress it

1450
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 3: sounds to me Like murphy is. Alerting it sounds to

1451
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 3: me Like murphy was not groomed by. Him AND i

1452
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:25,600
Speaker 3: don't Think Brian coberger did anything To.

1453
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 2: Murphy we've been talking true crime all the, time and

1454
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:30,640
Speaker 2: this night is coming to an.

1455
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 3: End it's hard to.

1456
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 2: Believe if you've missed any of the, show please don't sweat.

1457
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 2: It catch it as a podcast right after and you

1458
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 2: can start now leaving us some voicemails.

1459
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 3: Overnight you, know tomorrow.

1460
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:44,559
Speaker 2: We have a stacked show as, well and we will

1461
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:45,639
Speaker 2: cover the Mon talk.

1462
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 3: Mystery OH i really want to the fashion designer.

1463
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,600
Speaker 2: Found dead on that. Yacht so we didn't get to it.

1464
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,680
Speaker 2: Tonight we absolutely will. Tomorrow and by the, way we

1465
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:57,160
Speaker 2: haven't gotten to many of our, talkbacks.

1466
01:17:56,720 --> 01:17:58,439
Speaker 3: So you know we, WILL i.

1467
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:03,639
Speaker 2: Promise So, joseph, listen we have This oregon. Stuff we're

1468
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 2: still going to keep. Covering, Obviously, yeah this mon talk.

1469
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 2: Murder you've been everywhere talking about. It SO i know

1470
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:11,880
Speaker 2: tomorrow night's not great for, you but you'll have to

1471
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 2: pick a knight this week Because joseph's back in, session

1472
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 2: he's back in, school and he's you, know on every

1473
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 2: show no, demand so he's running a tight schedule right.

1474
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:23,719
Speaker 3: Now but we you're really ground.

1475
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 4: Zero every night is a true crime.

1476
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:29,479
Speaker 3: Tonight we know where your priority.

1477
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 4: Is, Like i'm, ready rock and, roll let's go to talk.

1478
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:35,600
Speaker 3: Back they have it.

1479
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:40,680
Speaker 13: Ready, hi this Is mila From, Scottsdale. ARIZONA i was

1480
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 13: wondering if the flash That dylan saw Was Brian coberger's.

1481
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 13: Camera he probably, well he obviously had it on airplane,

1482
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 13: mode but did he take? Pictures was that the?

1483
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:58,719
Speaker 3: Flash? Yeah that's? It you, KNOW i wondered the same.

1484
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:02,719
Speaker 3: THING i literally want the same, thing BUT i watched

1485
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 3: a lot with the celebrate experts That The independent did

1486
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 3: the story With Heather barnhart and her, PARTNER i Think

1487
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:15,880
Speaker 3: Jared barnhart was his, name and they said That Brian

1488
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:20,639
Speaker 3: koberger took the time that he actually pressed the button

1489
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 3: on the side of his phone to turn it, off

1490
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 3: so it wasn't just that it was an airplane. Mode

1491
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 3: he he Deactivated Wi fi and then he. Waited he

1492
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:32,919
Speaker 3: deactivated cellular and then he. Waited he went into airplane,

1493
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:35,679
Speaker 3: mode and then he, waited and then he physically turned

1494
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:38,600
Speaker 3: off the phone and it wasn't physically turned back on

1495
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 3: until five something in the, morning after he had already

1496
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:45,800
Speaker 3: left the. House so as far as we, know he

1497
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 3: never turned his phone on while he was in the.

1498
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 2: Home this guy was such a clown, though because also

1499
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 2: that same student we were speaking about earlier that was

1500
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:56,559
Speaker 2: in his. Class she shared, that, like one of the

1501
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,680
Speaker 2: very first things that was taught in that class that

1502
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 2: he would is the teacher's assistant in it was a criminology.

1503
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:05,080
Speaker 2: Class like one of the first things they learned about

1504
01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 2: was having a digital footprint and how you would not

1505
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:11,880
Speaker 2: want to have a digital footprint when committing a. Crime

1506
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:14,519
Speaker 2: so why the, hell did he have his phone at?

1507
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 2: All that's always been a hang up for. Me it

1508
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:17,720
Speaker 2: is such for me.

1509
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:21,080
Speaker 3: Too and maybe he was just on your phone. Home

1510
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 3: maybe he wasn't planning on it that. Night maybe he

1511
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 3: was a peeping tom and it just became not. Enough,

1512
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 3: yeah that's my.

1513
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 2: Theory also a little bit that it was more, spontaneous

1514
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:34,840
Speaker 2: otherwise he would have kept his phone at. Home but,

1515
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:37,639
Speaker 2: again a little unknowable because this guy won't give us any.

1516
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:40,360
Speaker 3: Details and it's, crazy. Man, yeah AND i think it's gonna.

1517
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:42,519
Speaker 3: CRY i think he's gonna want to. TALK i think

1518
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:44,280
Speaker 3: somebody's going to get to. HIM i don't know, who

1519
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:47,080
Speaker 3: BUT i hope that that somebody gets to him before

1520
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:47,639
Speaker 3: the prisoners.

1521
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:51,920
Speaker 2: Do and by the, way the prisoners have at it

1522
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,519
Speaker 2: and listen to our, Podcast The Idaho, Massacre season, Three

1523
01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:57,320
Speaker 2: episode one drops this.

1524
01:20:57,400 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 3: Week oh this.

1525
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:02,880
Speaker 2: Week, yeah everyone on it is, here you, guys OK

1526
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:06,920
Speaker 2: tea players are at large and, yeah for the next twelve.

1527
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 2: Weeks it's a ten week season and then there's two

1528
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:14,639
Speaker 2: bonus episodes where we have listener questions and. Interactions so

1529
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,720
Speaker 2: let's start stacking those. Up and, again this has been

1530
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,679
Speaker 2: an amazing Night joseph always when you were, Here good

1531
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 2: luck at school this week and for all of those

1532
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 2: who have kids, returning. Etc we're saying sending our love

1533
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 2: and prayers and you know.

1534
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:29,600
Speaker 3: Again be.

1535
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,880
Speaker 2: Safe this is my Stepdad. Elliott have a great. Show

1536
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:35,720
Speaker 2: this is true crime. Tonight we're talking true crime all the.

1537
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:36,840
Speaker 3: Time bath