1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, are you welcome 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow your Mind? My name is Robert 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And I was just out 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: of town for about a week and a half. So 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: where were you recorded some interviews while I was out? 7 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: That's right, I didn't have you to talk to, so 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, who am I going to talk to? So 9 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: I just started calling people up and saying, hey, let's 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: let's talk about some stuff. And one of these individuals 11 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: was Daniel Whitson, who is a physicist and the co 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: host of the podcast Daniel and Jorae Explain the Universe. 13 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: We've been meaning to talk to these guys for a while, 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: and I'm sorry I missed the chance to chat with 15 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: you and Daniel, but I'm excited to hear what you 16 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: all talked about. Yeah, this is a this is a 17 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: fun little conversation we talked. We talked a little bit 18 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: about you know, physics and particle physics, a little bit 19 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: about science communication and just also just the nature of science. 20 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: And yeah, it was just really a really fun little chat. 21 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: It was nice to to actually, you know, chat with 22 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: a physicist about this, because you know, there are times 23 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: where you and I we we are not physicists, so 24 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: a little bit not and and so when we're tackling 25 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: some of these like really complicated physics related topics, you know, uh, 26 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: we're we're at times struggling with the content, and you know, 27 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: having and helping the listeners struggle with the content is 28 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: when our nature is generalists is brought out. Yes, and 29 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: I think there's a there's certainly an advantage in being 30 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: a journalist and listening to a journalist, but uh, it 31 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: was also just really cool to to speak to an 32 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: expert about some of these topics. So yeah, it's a 33 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: it's a really really fun one. Uh So, without further Ado, 34 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and jump into the interview, and we'll 35 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: jump out for ad Rex of course, and then we'll 36 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: meet you at the end. Hi, Daniel, welcome to the show. 37 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: Can you go ahead and just introduce yourself, your name, 38 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: and your title for for everybody out there listening, Hey, 39 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: thanks a lot for having me on. I'm Daniel Whiteson. 40 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: I'm a professor of experimental particle physics at University of 41 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: California at Irvine, I'm also the co host of Daniel 42 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe, our podcast that comes out 43 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: twice a week about mind blowing crazy stuff about the universe, 44 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: and together with Jorge cham we also wrote a book 45 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: called We Have No Idea, A Guide the Unknown Universe 46 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: that tells you all about all the things that we 47 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,239 Speaker 1: don't know about the universe. And uh, how, let's see, 48 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: how when did the show actually start? I know it's 49 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: been going for uh for for quite a while. Now 50 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: you have a number of episodes banked up. Yeah, we're 51 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: actually just hit a hundred episodes. Oh nice, So we've 52 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: been Yeah, it comes out twice a week, and so 53 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: we've been doing it for just over a year. And 54 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: you know, the topics vary from like how big is 55 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: the universe to more pedantic stuff like how does lightning work? 56 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: And does anybody actually understand it? We just look for 57 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 1: mysteries anywhere, you know, puzzles that physicists like to unravel, 58 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: and we hope our listeners like to hear us blather about. 59 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: Now again, you're you're a physicist and a science communicator. 60 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: Jorge is um a science communicator and a comic artist. Correct, 61 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: that's right. But he actually also has a PhD of 62 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: his own. Oh yeah, he has a hilarious background. He 63 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: went to grad school in robotics and was developing little 64 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: robots that could run like cockroaches, which is pretty hilarious. 65 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: But on the side he started doing a comic strip 66 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: just so sort of procrastinated the real work he should 67 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: have been doing. And then that took off and became, 68 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, frankly more popular than his academic research and 69 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: turned into a full time gig for him. So how 70 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: did you guys come together first on the book and 71 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: then again you know, the podcast to follow. Well, we 72 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: met on Tinder of course. Like no Um, Jorge is 73 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: sort of is something of a celebrity in academia. Um 74 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: his comics that he's been putting out, called pah d Comics, 75 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: really captured the sort of existential angst or doing research 76 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: and working under a professor and being a grad student. 77 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: And so when I was a grad student, I loved 78 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: his work, and everybody around me loved his work because 79 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: they expressed something we were all feeling, you know, how 80 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: you can be in the lab all day and make 81 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: no progress or even move backwards. So he was something 82 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: of a celebrity, and maybe ten years ago, I was 83 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: working on some science communication and I had the idea, 84 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: what if we could use comics to explain some of 85 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: these complicated concepts in physics that might be much simpler visually. 86 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: But the problem was I don't have any artistic skill myself, 87 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: so I couldn't draw these things. So my wife, who's 88 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: also an academic, she suggested to me. She's like, oh, 89 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: why didn't you email Jorge cham and asked him to 90 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: do your drawings? And I was like, yeah, and then 91 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: I'll email Brad Pitt and asked him to a movie 92 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: with me, right, I mean, it's sort of at the 93 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: same level for me. But emailed Jorge cold email and 94 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: he actually wrote back, and I thought it was sounded 95 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: like a fun project, and we've been working on stuff 96 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: ever since. Awesome. Well, yeah, I mean obviously it worked 97 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: well together in the book. But and then on the 98 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: podcast you guys have Wonderful or four. Yeah, we um, 99 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: we had fun. We have fun doing the podcast, mostly 100 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: because we have fun talking science to each other. I mean, 101 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: when we were working on the book, we would spend 102 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: a lot of time talking about the concepts and figuring 103 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: it out and Um, something that Jorge is really good 104 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: at is teasing out what's interesting about a topic and 105 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: figuring out how to connect it to the general public. 106 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: You know, he's not trained as a physicist, but he 107 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: has a science background obviously the brain force, so we 108 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: can understand these concepts, but he's outside the field, so 109 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: he's able to sort of bridge between you know, the 110 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: the hard science and the general public. And so I 111 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: think that works really well. But yeah, we just had fun. 112 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: We're just laughing all the time while talking, and so 113 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: we thought it'd be fun to, hey, record those conversations 114 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: and share them with people. So you are you already 115 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: touched on this a little bit, but the you know 116 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: part of this. You know, as a scientist and a 117 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: science communicator, you you're you're privy to the the inside 118 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: world of scientific research and an acade me, but then 119 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: you're you're communicating it to a more general audience. And 120 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned the you know, the idea of going in 121 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: working every day and either feeling as if you're not 122 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: making progress or feeling like you're you're slipping backwards. Do 123 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: do you feel that there is a like there's a 124 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: myth or a misconception concerning science in the general public 125 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: that you know, regarding like the rate of progress uh 126 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: in in science or what progress looks like. Yeah. Absolutely, 127 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: I think that most people have no idea what the 128 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: life of a scientist is like, just out of not 129 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,679 Speaker 1: having had the experience. You know. I think most people 130 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: go to work and they have a pilot work in 131 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: front of them, and then they work through it, you know, 132 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: and then at the end of the day they've done 133 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: something right. You know, even somebody who's job is very simple, 134 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: like a chopping wood or something right. This is famous 135 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 1: time when Einstein spent a day chopping wood and he 136 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: was like, wow, that is really satisfying. Spend a day, 137 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: you get a day's worth of work done. Um. Whereas 138 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: in science you can work for or months and make 139 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: no progress or ruin things that you have established. But 140 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: then one day, you know, you can make a huge 141 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: leap forward, and those are the days we live for. 142 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: It's very stochastic, um. And it's hard for me to 143 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: really remember what I thought science was like before I 144 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: became a scientist. But you know, as a kid, I 145 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: imagined it was days filled with insight and discovery and 146 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: mind blowing realizations about the universe, you know, but those 147 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: are very rare and few and far between. Yeah, I 148 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: think on you know, on the exterior and in the 149 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: general public, we tend to focus in on those those 150 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: big moments, right, those aha moments, those discoveries, like the 151 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: final paper, or not the final paper, but the resulting 152 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: paper that comes out. Uh, you know. It's it's those 153 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: moments and not the day to day to day that 154 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: we end up focusing on. That's right. And in order 155 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: to be a scientist, you need to be interested in 156 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: those big moments, those drive you, that's what pulls you 157 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: through the work. But you also have to have an 158 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: appreciation for the craft of it, right, the day to 159 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: day actual work. And I learned this when I was 160 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: trying to become a scientist because I first joined the 161 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: field that I thought was exciting, like I became a 162 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: plasma physicist when I was um first exploring physics, and 163 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: because because I wanted to solve the world's energy problem 164 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: and develop fusion, I thought that was really awesome. But 165 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: the day to day work of working on these reactors, 166 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: I found mine knowingly dull, right, just the concept like 167 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: I might one day develop a fusion reactor wasn't enough 168 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: to interest me every day. And and then I tried 169 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: condensed matter physics, where you're like shooting lasers at GOO 170 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: and trying to make it do weird stuff, and I 171 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: thought that was awesome, But day to day you're like 172 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: tweaking a laser and trying to make it work, and 173 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: that wasn't that much fun. And then eventually I stumbled 174 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: on particle physics, where most of the work day to 175 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: day is writing computer programs, so you're solving these little 176 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: intellectual puzzles involved with debugging computer programs and understanding statistics, 177 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: and for me, that was really fun. It's totally separate 178 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: from the actual big questions we're trying to answer every day. 179 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: You know, what's the universe? It out of what's the 180 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: smallest thing. So I tell this a lot to grad 181 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: students who are thinking about particle physics. I say, find 182 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: a field where you're excited about the big questions, but 183 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: you also got to enjoy the day to day wood 184 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: shopping because that's what you're mostly doing. So in your work, 185 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: you you deal with sub atomic particles and UH and astronomy, 186 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: you deal with reality at the micro scale and the 187 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: macro scale. Distances smaller and and vaster than our our 188 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: as humans are evolved sensory perceptions. What does it feel 189 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: like as a as a human scientist to be sort 190 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: of trapped between these two realms that you know at 191 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: times are are difficult to imagine. Yeah, it makes me 192 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: feel very very small. You know. It's ah. I feel 193 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: like the job of physics at this level is to 194 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: expand our horizons. You know, we've seen the universe sort 195 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: of the scale of stuff that's like a meter down 196 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 1: to a centimeter, down to maybe a millimeter we can 197 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: grasp right with our minds, and what we're trying to 198 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: do is push those boundaries to the very very small 199 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: and very very large. And you know, the first thing 200 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: you learn is that there's a huge amount going on 201 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: at the very small level and at the very big level. 202 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: And that just makes me feel like, you know, small 203 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: and insignificant in so do the best possible way. I mean, 204 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: it's like it tells me that the universe is so 205 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: fascinating and so filled with mysteries, um that we're really 206 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: just beginning to crack the surface. And I love that feeling. 207 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: I love feeling like there are amazing discoveries out there 208 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: waiting for us, and so it makes me feel like, 209 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, I'm an explorer and there's a huge amount 210 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: of territory that is left to touch. So it's an 211 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: exciting feeling, but also intimidating. Now there's I guess there's 212 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: you know, even no matter how you know, large or small, 213 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: the you know, the details of the universe you're dealing 214 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: with your there there is this bedrock experience of reality 215 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I've I've I've read a little 216 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: bit about you know, the idea that you know can 217 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: read lead to um like a reality bias. Is that 218 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: a problem for physics? A reality bias? That's awesome? Um, 219 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: I think it's a problem for physics. But it's also 220 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: the only thing we can do. I mean, most of 221 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: what we do in physics is try to extrapolate from 222 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: what we know into what we don't know. Right, let's 223 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: explore the new territory, the sum atomic particles. How does 224 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: that stuff work? What does it look like? When we 225 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: do that, we build mental models, right, models in our 226 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: mind of what might be happening that are based on 227 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: the kind of things we know. Right. When I say particle, 228 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: probably in your head you're thinking tiny little ball, Right, 229 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: maybe it's spinning or something. Why do you think that? 230 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: Because that's one of the things in the catalog of 231 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: your mind. It's harder to come up with a completely 232 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: new thing. Right. It's like if somebody gave you a 233 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: totally new fruit you've never eaten before, you might be like, 234 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: it's kind of like apple with maybe a little bit 235 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: of cherry and banana in it. Right. You describe things 236 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: you don't know in terms of things you know, because 237 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: that's the only thing we really can do. So, yeah, 238 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: we have a reality bias because we've experien oarence the 239 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: world in this sort of very specific, unusual set of 240 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: circumstances where we're not moving close to the speed of light, 241 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: where don't have as much energy as the sun. And 242 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: because of that, we have a sort of a set 243 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: of basic objects we can build off of. And and 244 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: that that changes how we see the world, and it 245 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: changes um what we think we have learned about the world, 246 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: and and it leads to mistakes, right, Like photons and 247 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: other particles are not tying little balls, and there are 248 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: a lot of misconceptions there. But it's also I think 249 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: all we can do. I can't sweep away everything we've 250 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: learned and start tabby larassa. You know, I think one 251 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: exciting way to probe that reality bias, frankly is talking 252 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: to alien physicists. This is why I'm so excited for 253 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: the arrival of extraterrestrial because I have so many questions 254 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: I want and I want to know, like how do 255 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: you guys think about photons? Or do you think about 256 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: photons or you know all this? I have so many 257 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: questions for the aliens, and right, you know, I was 258 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this the other day when my 259 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: my son, who's um, whose seven, is asking about about 260 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: light and light years. I think it had to do 261 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: with its telling about some news about a planet a 262 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: hundred and eleven light years away and UM and trying 263 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: to explain it to him. And I was thinking at 264 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: the time, well, it's kind of like I have I 265 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: have two ways of looking at or thinking about light. 266 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: There's the you know, the explanation of photons, and then 267 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: there's this kind of default but incorrect version of like 268 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: of light that I kind of fall back into, you know, 269 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: the sort of like sight as a laser beam, um, 270 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: you know, where where it's something emitted rather than received, 271 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 1: but but based on on the way you just described 272 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: it, it it makes me think, well, maybe they're really doing 273 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: like three different levels. They're sort of like photons as 274 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: they actually are. The metaphor metaphorical version of photons that 275 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: we used to understand that, and then the you know whatever, 276 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: the sort of basic incorrect version based on just the 277 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: experience of physical reality is yeah, and we even have 278 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: more than one metaphor right, because one doesn't do the 279 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: job right. Photons is a particle. We also have photons 280 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: as a wave because sometimes photons do things like, you know, 281 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 1: interfere with each other um in patterns that we see 282 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: waves do. And so we're like, oh, well, let's explain 283 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: that using our wave analogy. And then we're like, okay, 284 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: but now the photons are like bouncing around the way 285 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: particles do. Okay, now let's use our particle analogy. And 286 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: the question we often get on our podcast is like, 287 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: our photons particles or are they waves? Or are they both? Right? 288 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: And the answer is there neither right. They're not. They're 289 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: not particles, they're not tiny little balls, they're not waves. 290 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: Those are two different metaphors we used to try to 291 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: capture the fundamental essential weirdness of this thing, which we 292 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: never can completely describe in terms of things we're familiar with, 293 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: because they're totally different from anything we've ever seen before. Right, 294 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: it's this weird quantum mechanical particle. They can do things 295 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: that basketballs and water waves just cannot do. So some 296 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: combination of those two ideas comes closer to this scribing 297 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: what it is. But I don't think we'll ever truly 298 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: deeply understand it the way we understand the way basketball bounces, 299 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: just because we didn't grow up experiencing it. Right. It's 300 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: like if you don't grow up hearing Chinese, you're never 301 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: going to speak it without an accent. It's just impossible. 302 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: In the same way we're never going to really understand photons, 303 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: no matter how many banan appeals we smoke. Um. I 304 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: like the idea you mentioned about about alien physicists, So 305 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: so yeah, if they had to do you know, any 306 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: Unfortunately I do not. But but but I love the 307 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: idea of of an alien being, you know, not only 308 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: having you know, perhaps access to you know, different technological 309 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: levels of understanding regarding you know, the cosmos, but having 310 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: access to like different metaphors based on uh, you know, 311 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: different levels of sensory awareness, etcetera. Yeah, and I think 312 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: we would learn so much, you know, in terms of 313 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: like what is the language they used to describe this stuff? 314 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: Are they mathematical? You know? We have questions about like 315 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: is a something that comes out of human the human 316 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: mind is reflect the way we think, or is it 317 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: something deep about the universe. It seems to us like 318 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: it must be deep about the universe because it's so 319 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: pure and crystalline and and clean, right, and and all 320 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: of our physical laws can to be described in terms 321 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: of mathematics, so it must be deep and true. But 322 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: that's a thought in human minds, shared between human minds, right, 323 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: we might meet an alien species that doesn't think about 324 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: math and has some other deep insight into the way 325 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: the universe works. The thing that excites and frustrates me 326 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: is those movies where the aliens come and then like 327 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: five minutes later, their physicists and our physicist around a 328 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: chalk at a chalkboard, excitedly making progress. And I'm like, 329 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: we've spent like ten years figuring out what zero means, 330 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: you know, and then another five talking about real numbers, 331 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: and then maybe you know, twenty years and we can 332 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: start talking about science or something. I suspect that we 333 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: would have that that our entire you of the universe 334 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: and that we we think about physics and math is 335 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: so biased by our experience. Of course, it has to 336 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: be that we would learn a tremendous amount just by 337 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: encountering those aliens and trying to communicate with them. Yeah, 338 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: that's interesting to think about, because a lot of times 339 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: we do fall back on this idea of of math 340 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: be at a be at this you know, wonderful human 341 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: invention that gets to the heart of reality, or being 342 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: this thing that underlies reality that we've discovered. That either way, 343 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: it would be like this universal language that would not 344 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: in itself require translation. Yeah, and and and demonstrating that 345 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: by finding an alien species and discovering that they also 346 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: think in math, that would be an enormous question answered, 347 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: like one of the deepest questions in the history of 348 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: human experience crossed off the list. That would be a 349 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: great day. All right, it is time for a sponsor break. 350 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: Let's take a break, and we're back with the interview. Now. 351 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: In terms of of things that you know, various scientific experiments, uh, 352 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: you know, large scale experiments, especially h that that humans 353 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: are engaged in. Want. One question that we've asked on 354 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: the show before that I'd like to ask you is 355 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: if you could summon the collective will, the political capital 356 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: and of course the funding to um, you know, to 357 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: launch any terrestrial based scientific experiment, you know, be at 358 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: a collider, a telescope, etcetera. What would it be? And 359 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: uh and why oh no, oh no, you're gonna ask 360 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: me to betray my own field. Um. Well, you know, 361 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: I'm a particle physicist and I work with these amazing facilities. 362 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: They caused tens of billions of dollars to smash particles together, 363 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: and they're wonderful and they provided me a lifetime so 364 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: far of intellectual curiosity, etcetera, etcetera. Um, last decade or so, 365 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: I haven't really revealed that many surprises. You know, we 366 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: smashed particles together. We don't know what we're gonna find. 367 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,719 Speaker 1: Maybe crazy new purple bananas may mean nothing. Um, it's exploration. Recently, 368 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: we haven't really found anything. And we don't know if 369 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: building a bigger one for a hundred billion dollars would 370 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: provide anything or just or or you know more nothing. 371 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: We don't know. Um. But The thing that's always amazed 372 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: me is about is telescopes, because every time we build 373 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: a new telescope that looks out into the universe, either 374 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 1: in a new way like X ray or you know, 375 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: um infra red or whatever, or looks in a new 376 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: direction or looks deeper like the hubble, we always find 377 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: crazy stuff that blows your mind. Stuff that astronomers think, 378 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: what why is that there? Or we didn't think that 379 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: was possible. So astronomy amazes me because every time humans 380 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: open up new eyes into the universe, they see something 381 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: crazy and new that teaches us something deep about the 382 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: universe and was out there. So I think, if I 383 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: had to choose, I would build, you know, a huge, fancy, 384 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: amazing telescope that lets us look ever deeper into the 385 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: universe with clearer and clearer eyes, because there's just so 386 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: much to discover there. It feels like it feels like 387 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: every dollar spent there is a dollar of understanding. Yeah. Absolutely. 388 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: I mean, in regularly consuming the you know, the science 389 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: headlines and the new studies that come out, it's it's 390 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: easy to sort of grow numb to some of the 391 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: especially the anthropomorphized headlines. But like just in like the 392 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: last few weeks we've had we you know, we've just 393 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: yesterday there's the uh, the the new Exo planet that 394 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: they've been discussing, the one that's a hundred eleven light 395 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: years away, you know, the possible presence of water there, 396 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: the Fermi bubbles from Sagittarius, a star. You know, there's 397 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: all there's there's something exciting. You know, it seems like 398 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: almost every week if you just you know, pay attention 399 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: to it. Yeah, and and you don't you can also 400 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: just focus on this stuff we've already found that nobody understands, like, 401 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, where are these crazy particles coming from with 402 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: super high energy. Nobody knows what's the source of these 403 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: fast radio bursts, these crazy little, super loud, very short 404 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: bursts of radi of energy from other galaxies. We have 405 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: no idea. It's incredible how much stuff is already out 406 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: there that we're clueless about. That if we could look 407 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: deeper and find more of them, we could start to 408 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: get clues of where are they coming from, what makes them, 409 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: and what's going on over there. And it's wonderful to 410 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: me to to learn about these things happening in the 411 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: universe that are sort of of shocking scale. You know, 412 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: like you learned about the amazing magnetic field around some 413 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: of these neutron stars, or the incredible density of stuff, 414 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: or the huge temperatures, and again, it just makes me 415 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: feel sort of wonderfully small. And you know, the universe 416 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: is so much bigger than we ever imagine, but it's 417 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: also so much more extreme. You know, there's dense stuff 418 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: and hot stuff and fast stuff and crazy stuff, and 419 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: I love that because it just tells me that there 420 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: are more these crazy, mind blowing moments in the future, 421 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: and that's that's what I live for, right and in 422 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: any of them close to home. You know, it's easy 423 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: to get wrapped up in the various exoplanet stories and 424 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, considerations of of black holes. But but then 425 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: like all the mysteries that relate just to our Solar system, 426 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: and you know, the the end, the less uh known, 427 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, outer reaches of it are always fascinating. Yeah, 428 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: that we have moons of Jupiter that have like oceans 429 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: underneath their surface that might have life on them. Right, 430 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: there's potentially incredible discoveries basically just around the corner. So 431 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I would love to send something up there 432 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: to drooll into that ice and figure out what's underneath 433 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: and what's swimming around in that ocean. Like, I would 434 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: definitely pay more tax if we could have more missions 435 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: to explore just our own solar system for sure. Sign 436 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: me up. So you're a you're a scientist and a 437 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: science communicator, and we we find ourselves in a time when, 438 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: especially in the United States, there's a there's a certain 439 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: amount of hostility to certain scientific topics, generally politicized topics, 440 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: especially climate change. Uh. And of course the stakes for 441 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: the future are are huge when it comes to climate change. 442 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 1: Do you do you think there have been mistakes, any 443 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,239 Speaker 1: mistakes in science communication that let us see, Um, I 444 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: think everybody makes mistakes because everybody's human and everybody comes 445 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: from their own perspective. And you know, I've heard people 446 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: be asked questions like is there a chance the large 447 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: Hadron collider will destroy the Earth? And you know the 448 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: answer to that question, of course, is there's a chance. Right. 449 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: But you have to know your audience, right, you have 450 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: to know really what are they asking? They're asking should 451 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: I be worried? Right? And the answer to that is no, um. 452 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: And so it's it's a matter of sort of bridging 453 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: those communities of knowing who your audience is and knowing 454 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: how to talk to them. And um, you know, I 455 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't blame anybody in particular. I think everybody was well 456 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: intentioned and doing their best. And I commend any scientist 457 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: who's trying to explain what we're doing and why we're 458 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: doing it to the public, because in the end, we're 459 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: doing it for the public. The public are paying for it. Um, 460 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: it's their science also, so I think we have an 461 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: obligation to try to share with them and everybody why 462 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: we're doing it, and and also to reach out to 463 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: to the next generation and excite them, right because the 464 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: next generation of scientists comes from the next generation of children. 465 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: And the reason a lot of us are scientists is 466 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 1: because some scientists took the time to explain why they 467 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: were amazed and what they learned. UM. So I don't 468 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: think it's that useful to assign blame and say, like, 469 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: this person said the wrong thing. But I think we 470 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: can think about, you know, how has it done well? 471 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: And um, I think that we should find those scientists 472 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: who are good at it and who have a passion 473 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: for it. You know, one thing I really like about 474 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: science is that it's mostly people following their passions. It's 475 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: not like somebody came and told me, Daniel, study deuced topic. 476 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: I'm doing this particular one because I'm pulled into it 477 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: because I want to know the answers. Somebody else is 478 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: doing plasma physics because they love it and they love 479 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: the day to day work of climbing around on the 480 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: fusion reactor. And some people love science communication, and other 481 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: people like hiding in their office and never talking to 482 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: human beings. And so you know, let's let the huge 483 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: and varied set of talents we have do their best. 484 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: So it times, you know, in in dealing with things 485 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: that the macro or the micro scale, dealing with things 486 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: like like radiation, you know, we're dealing with things that 487 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: are again beyond our our our our ability to really perceive. 488 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: You know, as humans were kind of dealing with invisible realms. 489 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: And and one thing that was kind of striking me 490 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: when I was, you know, thinking about things to ask 491 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: you about, was we have um, you know, we we 492 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: have for for ages humans have have have been willing 493 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: and able to comprehend invisible realities. Uh, you know, along 494 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: spiritual models and religious models Um. And yet sometimes like 495 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: the invisible or you know, uh difficult to to understand 496 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: aspects of the scientific invisible realms seems to be kind 497 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: of a stumbling block to some people. Uh why do 498 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: you think that is? Like if you like, if you 499 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: just put it on paper, it seems so seemed like, oh, well, look, 500 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: for thousands of years people have had no, no problems 501 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: buying into you know, models of reality and and reasons 502 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: for their conditions that that that are not visible. Well, 503 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: you know, it seems like they would have a natural 504 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: proclivity to to take to these uh more you know, 505 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: you know, seemingly exotic scientific explanations. Yeah, I agree. I 506 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,719 Speaker 1: think that's one of the attractive things about it, right, 507 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,239 Speaker 1: that science let's you sort of open up a new 508 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: set of eyes and get a glimpse of another way 509 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: that the universe is working. You know, it's like discovering 510 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: that you've been blind for a thousand years and finally 511 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: you can see the universe in a new way, the 512 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: stuff going on you never even imagined. Um. So I agree, 513 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: I think it gives you a new view, and it 514 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 1: gives you a new insight. It also shows you what 515 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: tiny fraction of the universe you can actually experience, you know, 516 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: I tell people a lot, for example, that that um, 517 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: every second, one billion new trino passes through your fingernails. 518 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: Like the air around us is just stuffed filled with 519 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: these new trinos. Right, You don't notice them. You go 520 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: around your everyday life. You never think about them. They 521 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: never think a at you either, right, So sort of 522 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 1: like being snubbed on the street. But it tells you 523 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: it's a clue that there's a huge amount of stuff 524 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: going on around you all the time that you're not 525 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: aware of that you're seeing a tiny little slice of 526 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: what's happening. So actually, I think the opposite. I think 527 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: that UM, people's historical acceptance of mysticism and hidden powers 528 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: and invisible actions UM lets them makes it easier for 529 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: them to understand that the universe is filled with invisible 530 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: crazy stuff UM that they might not have imagined. So 531 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: I've actually had the opposite experience UM. I think that 532 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: that people are quite receptive to this kind of thinking UM, 533 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: and that they love hearing about it. They love that 534 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: the feeling of awe when you when you show them 535 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: that the universe that you can peel back a layer 536 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: of reality and show them the universe is different from 537 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: what they imagine because the and that's what physics is 538 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: trying to do, right, peel back layers of reality and 539 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: show us sort of what's really there. Alright, time for 540 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: a break to hear from the sponsor. We will be 541 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: right back, and we are back with the interview. Coming 542 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: back to just the idea of public perceptions of science 543 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: and uh and the work of scientists. What are some 544 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: other examples that that you've encountered before, you know, big 545 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: misconceptions that the general public has about about science or scientists. 546 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of people think that 547 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: science is always fun, you know, and it's not. There 548 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: are days when I'm pulling my hair out because I 549 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: just can't make something work, or I thought I understood 550 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: something and then it turns out I've been wrong for 551 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: five years. Um. And and the other thing I think 552 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: that's important for people to understand is that science is 553 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: not some church of objectivity, right. Science is people. It's 554 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: people trying to understand the universe. It's just a community 555 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: of of of people, right. And so you know, when 556 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: we talk about science, we try to some people imagine 557 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: this like edifice of knowledge that we're building up this 558 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: list of facts. But it's really it's just a community 559 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: of the curious, right And those people are of course subjective. 560 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm not perfectly objective. I've things I've biases, and things 561 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,719 Speaker 1: I like and things I'm interested in and things I'm 562 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: not interested in. And so as a scientist you can't 563 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: be just like off on your own figuring out the universe. 564 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: You have to sort of move the community with you, 565 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: right Like, for example, I get a lot of emails 566 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: from people who think they have figured out the universe. There, 567 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: here's my theory. I've I've been thinking about it, and 568 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: here's my theory. And I think that's wonderful because I 569 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: love the people out there thinking about this stuff, that 570 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: they're inspired by the grand mysteries of physics to try 571 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: to solve it. Awesome. And often these are technical folks 572 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: of an engineered Boeing who on the side is thinking about, 573 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: you know, the nature of light or whatever. That's cool. 574 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: The thing that I think they don't understand is that 575 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: you can't just work on your own own for twenty 576 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: years and then deliver your magnum opus the theory of everything, 577 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,479 Speaker 1: because nobody knows how to digest that even you're speaking. 578 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: You're inventing your own mathematics and working on your own 579 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: for two decades. You're so far away from where we're thinking, 580 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: there's hard for us to even understand what you're doing. 581 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: It's like meeting an alien physicist. And so to be accepted, 582 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: to change the direction of science, to make some progress, 583 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: you have to be part of the community and sort 584 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: of steer the ship a little bit and convince people 585 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: that what you're doing is interesting so that they will 586 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: get involved and digested and build on your work. Right, 587 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: So it's not a bunch of people delivering grand insights 588 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: in front of an audience of people who totally unprepared. 589 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: It's the slow accumulation of work, the movement of the 590 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: crowd of minds sort of in a new direction. That's 591 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: what leads to these really big insights. We we um 592 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: cite the website Eon a lot, and you actually wrote 593 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: a wonderful piece for them a little while back titled 594 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: the most Wonderful Words and Science We have no idea yet, uh, 595 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: And it gets into this idea you know that the 596 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: science is this ever expanding under understanding of reality like 597 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: we've been discussing, and it's it's the kind of thing 598 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: that always makes me think of like a slime mold 599 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: and in an experimental maze, you know, in the most 600 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: flattering possible way. Yes, yeah, yeah, And that it's it's expanding, 601 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: it's following uh potential pathways, shrinking back from the ones 602 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: that don't have food, but just expanding uh uh. And 603 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: you mentioned in your your piece that if we were 604 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: to grab a science textbook from uh, like a thousand 605 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: years in the future, that it would be beyond our understanding. 606 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: And it reminds me a lot of the I don't 607 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: know if you've encountered this, but the you know, the 608 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: idea of fixed versus growth mind sets, and you see 609 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: this a lot in business circles, for instance. Is science 610 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: sort of a um a growth mindset process for a 611 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: fixed growth species. Yeah, I think it's um it's the 612 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: slow evolution of concepts, right, that build on each other. 613 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: And I think what I was trying to get up 614 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: with that is that you can't leap frog. You can't 615 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: just like fast forward a thousand years and digest everything 616 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: those physicists have been doing. Like if I want a 617 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: thousand years in the future and try to talk to 618 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: those physicists. They would be not just using some crazy 619 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: technology to talk to each other, and right, you know, 620 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: they wouldn't have chalkboards or white boards. They will probably 621 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: have crazy kinds of math that made no sense to me, right, 622 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: even if they were still speaking English. And so it's 623 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: you know, you have to in order to catch up. 624 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: I need to probably go through a thousand years of 625 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: work to get from where I am to where they are. Right. 626 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: You need to sort of build that bridge. You can't 627 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: just take an enormous leap out into nothing. Um. But 628 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: the thing that amazes me is the children. The children 629 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: in that time they will never have known anything else, 630 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: and so they will have been have They will have 631 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: been introduced to these concepts from the beginning, and they 632 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: will think they're totally natural. Right. So things that those 633 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: those scientists learned nine years from now and then teach 634 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: to children a thou us and years from now, we'll 635 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: be totally natural to those kids and totally alien to us. Um. 636 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: And I think that it's again it's just a process 637 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: of explaining what we don't know in terms of what 638 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: we do know. And then that basis set of ideas, 639 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: you know, what the basic concepts we think we understand 640 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: that slowly evolves. You know, take for example, trying to 641 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: get some perspective. Um, it's only been a hundred years 642 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: that we've understood that there's more than one galaxy in 643 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: the universe, right that that it was Hubble like less 644 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: than a hundred years ago who looked out and found 645 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: what he saw were star he thought were stars that 646 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: turned out to be way too far away. Nobody understood, 647 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, those are other galaxies. Like that's a 648 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: completely different mindset about the universe. Right, So if you 649 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: go back a hundred years and try to explain to 650 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,239 Speaker 1: people your research about how galaxies form, they'll be like, 651 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: what what do you mean galaxies? There's just so many 652 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: basic things to explain before you can get to the 653 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: interesting bit. So that's why I was trying to capture, 654 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: is trying to express how, on one hand, somebody from 655 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: my time, our time would have a hard time knowing 656 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: what those scientists are working on. At the same time, 657 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: those children would find it totally intuitive because they would 658 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 1: know nothing else, and so that would be really fascinating. 659 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: And frankly, if I went to the year three thousand, 660 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: I would not be prepared to read anything other than 661 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 1: a children's book, because everything else would be so far 662 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: beyond us. Awesome, Well, let's let's be As we begin 663 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: to close out here, I want to come back to 664 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: the podcast and uh, you know, part of the podcast 665 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: mission statement, um is to explain the universe. Uh, where 666 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: where are you? A one year in on the you know, 667 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: your completion level of explaining the universe? I would say 668 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: approximately zero percent. No, you know, science has you know 669 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: what fraction in the universe has science understood? I think 670 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: zero percent is a good estimate. You know, we've only 671 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 1: recently stumbled across big questions, you know, questions like why 672 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: is the universe expanding and expand ning faster and faster? Um, 673 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: This is a question we only discovered twenty years ago, 674 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: and we still have no idea how to explain it. 675 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: And what that tells me is that there are huge 676 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: questions out there that we haven't even discovered yet. You know, 677 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: there are also other questions we don't even know how 678 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: to make progress on, like what is the nature of time? 679 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: Why does it only move forwards? What is even space? 680 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: You know it has three dimensions or maybe more. It 681 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: can wiggle and shake and expand and bend. What is 682 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: this stuff? Um, there's so many things we have not 683 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: yet scratched, and I think the deepest questions we have 684 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: not even discovered the questions yet, and so um, I 685 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: think a zero percentage is approximately a fair estimate. You know. 686 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: There are other ways to look at it, though, Like 687 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: we know, for example, how much energy there is in 688 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: the universe sort of crazy and amazing, But we can 689 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: measure the total energy density of the universe by measuring 690 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: how much it bends space, and then we can ask, like, 691 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: how much of that energy can we account for? And 692 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: there we've made a solid five percent progress because five 693 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: percent of the energy is in terms of matter like 694 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: me and you and hamsters and bananas. So that's some 695 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: concrete progress, you know, but it leaves of the totally unexplained. 696 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: So um, there's lots of stuff to keep exploring and 697 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: definitely lots of material for future episodes. So for anyone 698 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: out there who is checking out Daniel Joy explaining the 699 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: universe for the first time, what do you recommend? Start 700 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: at the beginning, Start with the most recent episodes or 701 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: their key episodes that you would recommend. Uh in particular, 702 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: we try to cover a pretty broad variety of stuff 703 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: from like how big is the universe? Too? Is the 704 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,240 Speaker 1: universe of simulation? Down to more you know, everyday stuff 705 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: like how does a microwave work? Or you know how 706 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: today's episode was, like how is it possible for stones 707 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: to skip on water? And so what I would suggest 708 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 1: people just sort of skim the titles and find one 709 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: that pulls them in and says, oh, I want to 710 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: know about that, because everybody's got different curiosity and different passion, 711 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: and um, my favorite ones are the particle physics ones. 712 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: You know what is a quantum fielder? Is light, a 713 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: particle or a wave. That's the kind of stuff that 714 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: really gets me going. But I think, well, they're all fun, 715 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: and people should follow the ones that touch their personal curiosity. Now, obviously, 716 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: if people want to find the podcasts, they can, they 717 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: can find it wherever podcasts are available. But what are 718 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: some other key addresses or contact points you want to 719 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 1: get out there? Yeah, you can find us on Twitter 720 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge or Facebook and Instagram, and you can 721 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: look at our website Daniel and Jorge dot com. And 722 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: if you have a question that you'd love us to answer, 723 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: just email us questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. 724 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,720 Speaker 1: We answer all of our listener emails every physics question 725 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: we get, and we love suggestions from listeners because we 726 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 1: want to know what you want to hear about. Awesome. Well, Daniel, 727 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,879 Speaker 1: thanks for taking time out of your day to chat 728 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: with me here on the show. And uh, you know, 729 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,879 Speaker 1: Joe and I may take you up on on that 730 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: that email situ wish and because we have physics questions 731 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: from time to time that we certainly cannot answer, so 732 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: it would be nice to bounce some of them off 733 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: of you. Awesome, Well, thanks so much for having me on. 734 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: Really fun to talk about this stuff. I love the 735 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: questions and uh, thanks again. All right, so there you 736 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: have it again. That was Daniel whiteson uh, co host 737 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: of Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, and you can 738 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: find that at Daniel and Jorge dot com. You can 739 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,879 Speaker 1: also find that podcast anywhere you get your podcasts. It's 740 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: a it's an in network show. There are essentially our 741 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: co workers on the other side of the continent here, 742 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 1: but it's a's tremendous show. I highly recommended awesome. In 743 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: the meantime, if you want to check out other episodes 744 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: of Stuff to Blow your Mind heading over to stuff 745 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com because that is where 746 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: you will find them. We also find them everywhere you 747 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and as always we ask you, if 748 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: you have a chance, support the show by leaving a 749 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: nice rating and a review. Huge thanks as always to 750 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you'd like 751 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us to let us know 752 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other, to Joe, to 753 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: topic for the future, just to say hello, you can 754 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind 755 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production 756 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from 757 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 758 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. B