1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. We are 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: rounding out NOL. I guess we took somewhat of a vacation, not. 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 2: Really though, Yeah, you know, a micro hiatus is what 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 2: we said. But I think even still, we just did 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: the math. You know, we don't roll out these classic 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 2: episodes very often, and we do, it's usually for a 7 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 2: good reason, so that we can, you know, do human things. 8 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 2: I think we only hit you. This is the third 9 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: I think that maybe we've hit you with. 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: And this one's a doozy. 11 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: This is from back in the early days. I think 12 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 2: a pet interest of all three of us, honey and hallucinogens. 13 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 2: This is sort of combinds us of all of those 14 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: things into one sweet treat of an episode. 15 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you were to ask me, well in 16 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, Ben, what are the best pizza ingredients? I 17 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: would not have known that hot honey is one, but 18 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: now I'm convinced. And honey, what about hallucinogenic hot honey? 19 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: There we go. 20 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: It's more than a sweet ingredient and it could be 21 00:00:58,480 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: a weapon of war. 22 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,319 Speaker 2: Let's get right to it. 23 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio well, folks, friends 24 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: and neighbors, fellow would be apiarist. You have heard the buzz, 25 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: and the rumors are true. This is ridiculous history. My 26 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: name is Ben, my name is Noah. 27 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 2: Not the bees. Not the bees. They're in my eyes? Brown, 28 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: what is that? What is that? What is that? Holla? No, 29 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: not the my eyes. 30 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: And we are of course joined with our super producer, 31 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: Casey Pegrim Casey, thank you. He just lifted a lovely 32 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: looking sparkling water in our direction. And I'm a fan 33 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: of toast, and I've got a weird anecdote to start 34 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: this off. 35 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: Toast. 36 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, toast, both the prepared bread item and the act. 37 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: Oh I thought you were like toast with honey. I 38 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: get it toast like a cheers kind of motion. I 39 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 2: got you. 40 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: I'm glad that you mentioned honey. Funny story. There was 41 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: a middle aged couple once upon a time who decided 42 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: to improve their sex life in two thousand and eight. 43 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: They decided to do this, and they spent a week 44 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: eating raw honey gathered from an area in your Turkey's 45 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: Black Sea, and it did not have the results that 46 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: they had hoped for. 47 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: Not only raw honey, in fact, in the abstract for 48 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: this study entitled mad honey sexual activity and acute inferior 49 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: myocardial infarctions in a married couple. You see the keyword 50 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: there is mad honey. That's because this particular honey is 51 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 2: produced from the nectar of the rhododendron flower or Rhododendron ponticum, 52 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: which is native to areas of Japan, Nepal, parts of 53 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: North America, Europe, and Brazil, and as you mentioned then 54 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: the Eastern Black Sea region of Turkey. And this honey 55 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: has some pretty interesting qualities, right, Yeah. 56 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: To go back to the story there, the couple from 57 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: the Black Sea did not have the improved sex life 58 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: that they felt they would. Instead, they ended up in 59 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: the hospital with symptoms mimicking heart attacks. Due to it's 60 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: relatively obscure, destroyer Noles introduced mad honey, specifically mad honey 61 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: poisoning this syrup. This substance is naturally toxic and it 62 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: does have a different taste to reportedly tastes more bitter 63 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: than normal honey, and the toxicity varies depending upon when 64 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: you gather it. It's higher when you gather fresh honey 65 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: in the springtime because that's when those rhododendrons are among 66 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: the first plants to bloom, so bees are more likely 67 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: to interact with those. 68 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: Some of those interesting characteristics I mentioned, though, one of 69 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: them is that it apparently is used to treat erectile dysfunction, 70 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: and it's that particular reason is one of the big 71 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: ones that causes you know, folks in the age range 72 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 2: of these patients to buy the stuff. And it's pretty 73 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: easy to buy online. But let's rewind the story way 74 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: back to when we first started hearing reports of the 75 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 2: effects of this type of honey. 76 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: Right, this is something that's easily purchased today, but it 77 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: does have a razor's edge. It can go from intoxicating 78 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: to lethal with just a small variance of dose, and 79 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: people have been aware of it for a long life, 80 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: long time. The ancient Greek commander Xenophon, who led his 81 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: army of ten thousand soldiers from Persia back to Greece 82 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 1: in four hundred and one BC, prided himself on being 83 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: the best, the utter last word, when it came to 84 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: finding healthy and safe campsites and enemy territory. This is 85 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: according to research scholar and Classics and History of Science 86 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: at Stanford named Adrian Mayer, she's also luckily for our purposes. 87 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: The author of a book called The Poison King and 88 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: a survey of ancient warfare called Greek Fire, Poison Arrows 89 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: and Scorpion Bombs, and according to Professor Mayer, Xenophon noticed 90 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: nothing unusual about the campsite that he had chosen, in 91 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: a place called Pontus on the Black Sea coast in 92 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: northeast Turkey. But he did note an extraordinary number of 93 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: swarming bees, and he said that his men soon discovered 94 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: the hives and went nuts and bananas. They gorged on 95 00:05:58,640 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: that sweet, sweet wild. 96 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 2: And then Xenophon, who was noted for his meticulous record keeping, 97 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that's true, but he definitely kept them, 98 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 2: recorded his observations of the way his troops behaved, and 99 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 2: the author Adrian Mayer describes them as such. He was 100 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: appalled when his soldiers suddenly began to behave like crazed 101 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: mad men, and they collapsed on mass I'm assuming in 102 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: some sort of Greek heap. His entire army was paralyzed 103 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: and incapacitated for days, totally vulnerable to enemy attacks. So, 104 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 2: in other words, they were wasted and utter sitting ducks. 105 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: And with the benefit of modern science, we can crack 106 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: a little bit of the case. 107 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: Here. 108 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: The honey they were consuming is dark, reddish mad honey 109 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: appearance in Turkey. It's called Deli ball, And we can 110 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: trace the active ingredient that's harming people. It's called grayanotoxin. 111 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: Grayanotoxins can be found in honey produced from the nectar 112 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: plants like this specific sort of rhododendron. Because they contain alkaloids, 113 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: they're poisonous to humans. But as we're jumping back in time, Noel, 114 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: you said you had another example from a little bit 115 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: later in the timeline I do. 116 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: In sixty seven BCE, Rome invaded the Black Sea region 117 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: under the command of General POMPEII, no relation to the 118 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 2: town No No, but the opposition forces, which were headed 119 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 2: up by the reigning King Mithridates. They knew about the 120 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: area and the indigenous wildlife and flora and fauna, and 121 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: so they kind of pulled a little bit of a 122 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: trick on the Romans by lining their paths with these 123 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: very enticing pieces of this mad honeycomb. And a similar 124 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: scenario took place as to the Greek situation. They started 125 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: vomiting and became intoxicated and just hallucinating wildly, and they 126 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: became easy prey, easy for the pickens. 127 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: Yes, they also were experiencing the dizziness, hypotension, the heart problems, 128 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: the weird simulation, the feeling of you know, incoming death. 129 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: It's very painful, strange feeling. And this isn't the only 130 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: time that somebody weaponized mad honey. It's also been used 131 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: in mead as a way of stalling approaching forces. We 132 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: have an excellent article called Ancient Armies Waged War with 133 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: Hallucinogenic Honey by our recurring contributor Lori L. Dove, and 134 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: in this you can find more information about these various instances. 135 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: And it turned out this stuff worked really well. If 136 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: you used this honey, this Deli ball to make mead 137 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: or aka honeywine, then you can still have similar effects. 138 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: In AD nine four to six this happened. 139 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: It had a little extra kick to it. 140 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: I guess right, mm hmm yeah, yeah, not like a 141 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: Heinz fifty seven versus ketchup kick, a more dangerous one. 142 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: I'm more of a Worcestershire sauce man myself. 143 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: And the Story of Worcestershire by the way itself. 144 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 2: Is just really weird. Oh, can we do that one? 145 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:20,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do that one in Do you want to 146 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: do it in a later episode? 147 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 2: I think we do in a later episode in the 148 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: New Year. 149 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: Okay, sounds good. So there was someone named Olga of Kiev, 150 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: and Olga of Kiev had Russian foes, and Olga went 151 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: through some proxies and had some allies offer these Russians 152 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: several tons of mead, and five thousand Russians ingested this 153 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: mead and they collapsed, reeling and delirious, and they were 154 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: summarily massacred. 155 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,599 Speaker 2: Then in fourteen eighty nine, in the same area, a 156 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 2: Russian army absolutely slaughtered ten thousand Totters who had drunk 157 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: too many casks of this kind of meat the Russians 158 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 2: had left behind. Once again in that kind of sneaky 159 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: honey traps. You call that kind of a honey trap. 160 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: That's a term, but that's actually what it was. And 161 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: by the way, Totter's just kind of into this are 162 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 2: a Turkish people from living in and around Eurasia, in 163 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: eastern Europe and northern. 164 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: Asia, and so folks, we can begin to see the 165 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: shape of the moral for today's episode. If this moral 166 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 1: would exist, is it honeycomb shaped? It is a honeycomb 167 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: hive shaped moral, and it is the following if someone 168 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: you don't trust offers you something to eat or drink, 169 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: or if you are walking on the way to a 170 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: clear battle, I just don't eat stuff you see on 171 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: the side of the road. 172 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 2: It's very true, And we also. 173 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: Have good news for anybody who loves rhododendrons and says, wait, 174 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: am I in danger my friend's family and my foes 175 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: by having these plants? The answer is no. Only one 176 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: or two, maybe three of rhododendrons carry this stuff, so 177 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: generally you should be safe, and it's not all bad. 178 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: In Turkish culture, deli ball as seen as a kind 179 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: of medicine and it's used in very small amounts to 180 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: treat various medical conditions. 181 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. The couple that we talked about at 182 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 2: the top of the show were trying to use this 183 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: stuff for a medicinal reason. They weren't just trying to 184 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: get messed up. We mentioned the idea of it being 185 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 2: used to treat a rectile dysfunction, but ben, have you 186 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 2: heard of the Gurrong people of Nepal. 187 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: Briefly, but I'd love to hear more. 188 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, So they to this day carry on the tradition 189 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 2: of they call it hunting. For this hunting, we'll talk 190 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 2: about what that process is like in a minute. It's 191 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 2: pretty insane. But they use it to treat like joint pains, 192 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: things like arthritis or mild stomach aches or I believe 193 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 2: I read somewhere even you knowention, which is interesting considering 194 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: that in the medical study that we talked about, part 195 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 2: of the side effects of taking too much of the 196 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 2: stuff is that it can increase your heart rate significantly 197 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: and cause your blood pressure to drop dangerously. 198 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: Like the old saw about alcohol mad honey, maybe rumor 199 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: to cure some of the problems it causes. 200 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: Indeed, but these Gurang people are a fascinating bunch. They 201 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 2: live in villages and they are entirely self sufficient. They 202 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: shear the wool from goats that they have, They grind 203 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: their own flour, they make their own clothes, and what 204 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 2: they have leftover they sell at local markets. But every 205 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: year they carry on this tradition of going on an 206 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 2: expedition out to these incredible cliffs where they get this honey. 207 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: Because the areas were these particular bees, which are actually 208 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: I don't know if we mentioned the largest bees in 209 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 2: the world. 210 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Himalayan rock bee is a gigantic honey. 211 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: Bee and they make their nests and their hives on 212 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: these steep, steep cliffs. So in order to access this, 213 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 2: these folks make these rope ladders out of kind of 214 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 2: twisted bamboo and then they it looks like a giant rope, 215 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: and then they insert these pieces of wood in between 216 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 2: to create rungs, and then they like well, you know, 217 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: rope it down to like a root or some kind 218 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 2: of tree, and then they repel down the side of 219 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 2: these cliffs and they use these giant sticks to kind 220 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: of poke at the combs and knock them into a 221 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: basket that's also being lowered down independently. And in order 222 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: to kind of protect themselves you might see this been 223 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 2: with traditional bee keeping, or to get the bees to 224 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 2: kind of leave so you can get this the goods, 225 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: they smoke them out of their holes, basically with burning 226 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 2: leaves and stuff. But still even still, these folks get 227 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 2: stung constantly, and it's a real almost right of passage 228 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: to do this, and there have been cases where people 229 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: have fallen to their death. There's a great quote in 230 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: this article from Vice Hunting for Hallucinogenic Honey in Nepal 231 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 2: by David Kapara, who actually went on this expedition, and 232 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 2: he's speaking firsthand, and he spoke to one of the 233 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: men that he went on the expedition with, and this 234 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 2: is what this man, Tulsi Gurung said, And all of 235 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: these folks have the surname of Gurum, everyone that lives 236 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 2: in the village. I think is interesting quote. At first, 237 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 2: I'm very scared going down the ladder, but when I 238 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: see the hives, I get filled with power and become fearless. 239 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: And this rite of passage, this arduous collection process, results 240 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: in what the locals call pagal maha or mad honey. 241 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: You can find accounts of people who have tried this 242 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: both medicinally and recreationally, like backpackers in Nepaul, for example. 243 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: We did say it was it is available, you can 244 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: buy it it likely from the comfort of your own computer. 245 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: But we were a little bit misleading because although you 246 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: can obtain it easily, you cannot really obtain it cheaply. 247 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: In some places, this stuff allegedly sells for one hundred 248 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: and sixty six dollars a pound exactly. 249 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 2: Ben and I actually found an article talking about kind 250 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 2: of procuring some of this Turkish variety of deli ball 251 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: at a shop. And this piece was written by Emma 252 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: Bryce for Modern Farmer, called The Strange History of Mad Honey. 253 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: And Bryce actually makes her way to a shop that 254 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: specializes in honey, and the shopkeeper had a jar, and 255 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 2: she describes it as kind of a frothy honey, very 256 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 2: bright orange, almost looks like clarified butter. But the shopkeeper 257 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 2: called it rose of the forest honey or armand Kamar 258 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: Bali and Emma got a sense that they weren't really 259 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,119 Speaker 2: trying to promote this stuff because they didn't want tourists 260 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: completely losing their minds by eating too much. In every 261 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: account that I've read of someone tasting this or trying it, 262 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: it's usually been a couple of tea spoons, and it's 263 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 2: described as having almost a cooling effect on the throat, 264 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 2: a little bit of a burn, but then that kind 265 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: of was replaced by kind of almost a I see 266 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 2: hot kind of effect that kind of then goes down 267 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: your spine and almost comparable to a cannabis high. 268 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: I guess, hmm, yeah, I think again it really depends 269 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: on the amount of the dose, because you could read 270 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: accounts from people who clearly took way too much of 271 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: this stuff and talk about laying awake at night in pain, 272 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: terrified by the sound of their own heartbeat. A lot 273 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: of hallucingenic experts will tell you that if you're going 274 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: for something recreational, not that we would ever legally recommend 275 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: considering that on our show, but if you are attempting 276 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: to use some hallucinogens for recreational purposes. Biologist Sean McCann 277 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: says the compounds involved in mad honey are not super 278 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: fun and not something I would recommend. They are far 279 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: better and safer hallucinogenic compounds that you can use. 280 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 2: Speaking of legally acquiring this stuff, I just wanted to 281 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: point out this may have maybe stating the obvious, but 282 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 2: it is legal in Turkey, so you can buy it, 283 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 2: you know, completely free and clear. But again there is 284 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,479 Speaker 2: a sense, probably like the way Amsterdam has done business 285 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 2: for a long time, where even though you know cannabis 286 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 2: and you know edible versions of that are legal there, 287 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: they kind of tuck it away a little bit. They 288 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 2: don't necessarily want to promote it right up front, and 289 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: there is that sense that dummy American tourists are going 290 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 2: to swoop in and like take away too much and 291 00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 2: be a liability. 292 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: And there are some other fascinating things here. First, Adrian 293 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: Mayer says that matt hunting could still be used as 294 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: a ruse in war today for just the same reason 295 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: that we pointed out. People could do a much better 296 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: job in general of accepting things from strangers. You got 297 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: to have some critical thinking. We also, you know, I 298 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: had heard about biological or chemical warfare throughout history before, 299 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: but it wasn't familiar with food, and I wanted to 300 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: see if there were any other examples, and I found 301 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: some stuff that's best vaguely related. There was a war 302 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: between Brazil and Uruguay in the eighteen sixties and during 303 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: one maritime battle, a Uruguay and ship ran out of 304 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: cannonballs and the captain ordered his men to fire stale 305 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: balls of cheese instead. 306 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 2: Yikes, that's a that's thinking on your feet right there, though. 307 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: And how stale was this cheese man? Because one of 308 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: the cheeses shattered the main man of the enemy ship 309 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: and people died by a cheese shrapnel, which I know, 310 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: every human death is tragic, but that's kind of that's 311 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: kind of amusing. 312 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 2: That's it's it's kind of ridiculous. You know, I could 313 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 2: picture cheese. Have you ever had a real hard cheese, ben, 314 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 2: I could picture if it was cut thin enough and 315 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 2: that fluid a fast enough you know speed, and the 316 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 2: trajectory was just right, I could picture getting garrotted by 317 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 2: one of those things. 318 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: Right, Because I think that's a very interesting point, Nol. 319 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: Because you know, we've been around a cheese wheel or two. 320 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: We've seen some dangerous cheese. I'd never thought it. 321 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 2: We could be lethal dangerous cheese. 322 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: And one time, apparently in the Pacific Ocean during World 323 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: War two, a Japanese submarine was sunk using potatoes. Just 324 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: gonna let that one hang in the air. 325 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 2: Were these like regular potatoes or these like you know, 326 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 2: super mutant potatoes. Were there just a whole bunch of 327 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 2: potatoes tied together to make a giant battering red I 328 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 2: don't know, I just just my imagination is going wild. 329 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: These are all great ideas, These are all great ideas. No, 330 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: the usso bannon came across a surfaced Japanese submarine and 331 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: they had surfaced because they had a malfunctioning periscope, and 332 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: they blasted enough holes in the submarine to prevent it 333 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: from safely submerging again, but not enough damage to sink it. 334 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: And so they pulled directly along the sub and the submariners, 335 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: you know, are of course pod and angry, and before 336 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: they could start firing, the crew of the USS Obannon 337 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: began throwing potatoes at them, because for some reason, there 338 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: were no guns on the USS Obannon, and the Japanese 339 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: forces thought the potatoes were grenades. 340 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 2: You know, with a name like Obannon, you think they 341 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 2: would be more concerned with conserving their potatoes. Do you 342 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 2: know what? 343 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: Soon No, I think we have to wonder what the 344 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: what the namesake of the USS O Bannon would have 345 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: thought about it. But surprisingly enough to us, it turns 346 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: out that it is not well, it's uncommon, but it's 347 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: not unreasonable for food to be used as a weapon 348 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: of war. Typically, when I thought of this sort of stuff, 349 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: I thought food is a weapon of war would have 350 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: been a matter of resource restriction, right, like you starve 351 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: a city, you're sieging. I didn't know that you could 352 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: shoot cheese at people, and you know, that's on me 353 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: I gotta think outside the box. 354 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think some time outside the box would do 355 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 2: us both a world of good. And thankfully we have 356 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: all these fun topics to help us do that. Agreed. 357 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: And I want to ask you, Noel, does this curious 358 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: case of mad honey which persists today, does this inspire 359 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: any questions for you? Would you ever try it if 360 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: you found yourself near the Black Sea or Nepal? 361 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. I mean again, it's not illegal 362 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 2: if if I know enough about it that I certainly wouldn't, 363 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 2: you know, spread it on toast and just go to town. 364 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: But I try a little taste because it sounds like 365 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 2: in small doses it almost has just a slight euphoric 366 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: like maybe almost like having a beer or something kind 367 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 2: of vibe. But when you start kind of piling it on, 368 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 2: it turns much darker. 369 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think that's a reasonable way to 370 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: look at it. Let's see if we get a YA 371 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: or name from super producer Casey Pegrim Casey, what do 372 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: you think? 373 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 2: All Right, we have a ya. 374 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: Casey's all for it, Nol's all for it. I think 375 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: it's reasonable. I am impulsive. I probably would try it, 376 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: But what about you? Friends and neighbors. Would you take 377 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: a dose of the infamous mad honey, the substance that 378 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: toppled armies. Would you be up to the task? Why 379 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: or why not? Or have you already tried it? 380 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 2: Yeah? Right into us. Any intrepid travelers out there that 381 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 2: have scaled the rocky cliffs of Nepal in search of 382 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: this intoxicating nectar. We are ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com. 383 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 2: You can also find us on social media in various forms, 384 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 2: including Facebook and Instagram. Well those are the only. 385 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: Ones, yep, those are the main ones. We do not 386 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: have a LinkedIn, nor do we have a farmer's link. 387 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 2: We don't use the P word anymore either. 388 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: No, that's true. It is a it's a large sign 389 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: directly by this humongous timer we still have in the 390 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: office from a previous episode. 391 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, today, time is not on our side, but we 392 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 2: hope that you will join us next time for another 393 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 2: episode of Ridiculous History. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 394 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 395 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 2: your favorite shows.