1 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: Hey to your Therapist listeners. It's Lori and Guy and 2 00:01:12,479 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: we have a quick update. 3 00:01:13,839 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something 4 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,439 Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it 5 00:01:18,479 --> 00:01:21,719 Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we 6 00:01:21,839 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we 7 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: didn't remember. 8 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: We're They're therapy is like that too. There are so 9 00:01:28,199 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: many learning moments in a session, and it's difficult to 10 00:01:30,919 --> 00:01:33,439 Speaker 1: absorb them all at once. So while we're not taping 11 00:01:33,559 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: new episodes right now, we are offering you our most 12 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: popular sessions as encores so that you can continue to 13 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: gain value from them. 14 00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: We love doing the Therapists episodes, but we're each busy 15 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects that we hope you will 16 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: love just as much. 17 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,679 Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked, 18 00:01:52,799 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts. 19 00:01:55,359 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called 20 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind, How to Break Free when work Hijacks your life, 21 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: and it will be published by Simon and Schuster. You 22 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: can find out more about it on my website. 23 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile, 24 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapist sessions as valuable 25 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. Hey, fellow travelers, 26 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: I'm Lori Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should 27 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,719 Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist column 28 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: for The Atlantic. 29 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 3: And I'm Guy Winch. I wrote Emotional First Aid, and 30 00:02:33,839 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 3: I write the Dear Guy call Um for Ted. And 31 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 3: this is Deo Therapists. This week, a man cares for 32 00:02:39,839 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 3: his ex girlfriend's dog and his current partner is concerned 33 00:02:42,839 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: about what that means for their relationship. 34 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,119 Speaker 4: I said, you know, it's really funny. I have never 35 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 4: met this person and I'm sorry to use the word hate, 36 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 4: but I hate her already because she is in the 37 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 4: middle of our relationship. 38 00:02:55,959 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: Listen in and maybe learn something about yourself and the process. 39 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 4: Hey, just a note before we start. 40 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only, does not constitute 41 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,479 Speaker 1: medical advice, and is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, 42 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental 43 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: health professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions 44 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: you may have regarding a medical condition. By submitting a letter, 45 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part 46 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: or in full, and we may edit it for length 47 00:03:30,359 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: and or clarity. Hey louri, Hey guy, So I hear 48 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: this week's letter has something to do with a dog. 49 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 3: It does, indeed, apparently to his company, and a dog 50 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: makes it a crowd. Let me read you the letter, 51 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: Dear therapists. I started dating a guy a few months ago, 52 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 3: in fact, one week before strict quarantine measures. The beautiful 53 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 3: part about this lockdown is we talk a lot. Does 54 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 3: I feel like I've gotten to know him on a 55 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 3: deeper level more quickly than I might have otherwise. We 56 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 3: have great emotional and physical chemistry. We read together, write together, 57 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 3: cook together, great conversations, etc. It's been wonderful. There is, however, 58 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 3: an unresolved issue from his past. He takes care of 59 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 3: his ex girlfriend's dog whenever she's out of town. They 60 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 3: maintain a close friendship, but because of COVID nineteen, she's 61 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 3: been somewhat willingly stranded in another part of the country, 62 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 3: and he's been dog sitting for almost three months. Now. 63 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 3: Here's the catch. This is the same woman whom he 64 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 3: cheated on his ex wife with over five years ago. 65 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 3: As I've learned more about him and their history, I 66 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 3: can't seem to get past why they still maintain a 67 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 3: close friendship, and I get annoyed at his inability to 68 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 3: return the dog. He knows how I feel. I believe 69 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 3: the dog represents a connection he subconsciously doesn't want to 70 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 3: let go of, and that he's not giving himself time 71 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 3: to heal from their break up, which was only last June, 72 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 3: with a one night stand in October. They were friends 73 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 3: before he got married and lost touch, but he described 74 00:04:56,159 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 3: the romantic relationship as toxic. It was on again, off again. 75 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: She never wanted to commit. She is someone that his 76 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 3: friends and family think is bad news. He assures me 77 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 3: this person is in his past, but I know that 78 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 3: their relationship was intense, passion, and one in which he 79 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 3: was usually hurt or dumped because he didn't want it 80 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 3: to end. Although he believes he can still be friends 81 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 3: with his ex, I'm not so sure. After many serious conversations, 82 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 3: he is clear that the dog has to go and 83 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 3: has been empathetic to my feelings, but has also asked 84 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 3: me what I think he should do regarding their friendship. 85 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 3: He knows that I don't want to tell him what 86 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 3: to do because I don't want to be the source 87 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 3: of blame later on, but I also wanted to come 88 00:05:33,719 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 3: from him. Am I reading too much into my feelings 89 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: about what this dog represents? Sincerely Amy? 90 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: So it's really interesting to me guy that this is 91 00:05:44,719 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: a letter that centers around a dog, because I don't 92 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: think people realize that dogs come up so much in 93 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: therapy because of the importance that our pets play in 94 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: our lives. And then also what happens when there's a breakup, 95 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: and like having a child with somebody, what happens to 96 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: the animals that were involved, even tangentially in that relationship. 97 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 3: Dogs are family members for most people, so it's not 98 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 3: a simple thing about return the dog. And also, if 99 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 3: it's COVID, a dog might actually be playing a important 100 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 3: role in this guy's life. So I'm not even sure 101 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 3: what the level of sacrifice that is in terms of 102 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 3: giving up the dog. And I think in this case, 103 00:06:28,159 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 3: the dog is threatening because it represents that tie that 104 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: this man still has to his ex girlfriend, and so 105 00:06:33,719 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 3: she wants that tie severed, both the dog to be 106 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 3: returned and perhaps the friendship even to be severed. So 107 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 3: this is a letter about a dog that's actually not about. 108 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: A dog, right, He says, that he's willing to not 109 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: take care of the dog, but at the same time 110 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: he's asking her if he should maintain the friendship. It's 111 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: almost like he's abdicating responsibility for making that decision himself. 112 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: Do you let dogs come into your sessions? 113 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 3: I do, and I'm not that particular about why they 114 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 3: have to bring the dog. I just love dogs, and 115 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 3: so I allow dogs. Cats not so much because they 116 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: tend to open my desk and spill things, but dogs 117 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 3: and babies by all means, bring them on. This is 118 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 3: Deo Therapists. Thanks for listening. 119 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to Dear Therapists from iHeartRadio. So let's go 120 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: talk to Amy. 121 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 3: So Hi Amy, Hi Amy, Great to meet you. 122 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,439 Speaker 4: Hi guy, Hi Laurie Amy. 123 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit 124 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: more about the relationship. 125 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 4: So we met at the gym and then we started talking. 126 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 4: So we've been seeing each other for four months now, yeah, 127 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 4: I'm going in five months. 128 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,239 Speaker 1: And starting at the beginning of the relationship, did you 129 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: know about this X and what were those conversations? 130 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 4: Like I did not know about the ex. What he 131 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 4: did make clear to me at the very beginning and 132 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 4: literally in our first conversation was he mentioned his kids, like, oh, 133 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 4: I have to go do something with my kids, and 134 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 4: so I think he wanted to make it very clear 135 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 4: that there was an ex wife in his life and 136 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 4: he had kids. But the only reason that the ex 137 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 4: came up initially was because of the dog hair in 138 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 4: his apartment and the dog I mean, sorry, never mind 139 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 4: the dog here and the dog in his apartment. I said, oh, 140 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 4: who's dog in this? And it was like one of 141 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 4: those size like, well, this is not my dog, but 142 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 4: this is a friend's dog. And then little by little 143 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 4: bits and pieces of information, this friend was actually more 144 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 4: than a friend. He's never really called her next girlfriend. 145 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 4: I think they've just had this on again, off again relationship. 146 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 4: So as time goes by, I always get little snippets 147 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 4: of information that come out for whatever reason. 148 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: Well for whatever reason is actually important, right, he said 149 00:08:58,319 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 3: he needs to heal. So how much has he said 150 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,719 Speaker 3: about the fact that he was truly heartbroken after this 151 00:09:03,839 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: on and off again thing was over. 152 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 4: You know what, He's very open, but sometimes when we're 153 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 4: in a moment, we're having a glass of wine, it 154 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 4: reflegged on our relationship and how much he enjoys our connection. 155 00:09:17,319 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 4: And I think it's always like the reference is what 156 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 4: he's experiencing now, which he has never experienced before. 157 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: You said that he hasn't experienced this before, So you're saying, 158 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: not just in that other relationship, but he didn't experience 159 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 1: this kind of whatever good feelings that he's having right 160 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: now in the level of comfort and connection, he didn't 161 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: experience that in his marriage either. 162 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 4: Correct. Correct. Yeah, he's been very very open about that. 163 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,399 Speaker 4: He's the type of person that believes in partnership. Last 164 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 4: night we were I was going to cook a dinner 165 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 4: and he had this radio show that he had to 166 00:09:50,319 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 4: go on and he's like, you know, just cancel the 167 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 4: radio show. I's like, don't cancel. You do your hour 168 00:09:55,119 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 4: show out while I start the cooking. And so after 169 00:09:57,839 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 4: he said, you know, that to me is such a 170 00:09:59,599 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 4: level of partnership, like give and take. So he always 171 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 4: reflects on things that he really likes about our relationship 172 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 4: that he never had before. 173 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 3: And yet there's this feeling that you have a trust 174 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 3: issue with him. Correct, And so tell us where that 175 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: comes from on your end with somebody who's that expressive 176 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 3: and actually saying all those reassuring things. Where that comes from? 177 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 4: For you, Yeah, so you know the trust issue. So 178 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:31,599 Speaker 4: he said that he in the past in order to 179 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 4: avoid conflict or in order to avoid an argument if 180 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 4: you were laid at work, but you don't avoid a 181 00:10:36,599 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 4: conflict you said, oh, you know, I had to pick 182 00:10:37,839 --> 00:10:40,519 Speaker 4: out something at the grocery store. Like little lies. He 183 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,119 Speaker 4: used to tell a lot of little lies. And when 184 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:49,159 Speaker 4: he with this X, he was unfaithful. So when someone 185 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 4: is open about that with you, I think you automatically 186 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 4: are like, you're telling me that you used to lie 187 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 4: a lot to avoid conflict. You were unfaithful. And he's 188 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 4: talked about openly working on that with a therapist. But 189 00:11:05,319 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 4: for me, it creates a sense of will this person 190 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 4: do it again? You know, if you I've cheated ones, 191 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,119 Speaker 4: will you cheat again? You know, if you're used to lying, 192 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 4: how easy is that habit to break? 193 00:11:16,079 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 1: Have you actually expressed to him what you just expressed 194 00:11:19,319 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: to us, which is that you wonder how that's going 195 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: to play out between the two of you, and while 196 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: he's working on it individually, how the two of you 197 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: can create a line of communication that's open around that 198 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: issue so that you're not wondering whether he's lied about 199 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: the little things and what can happen in your relationship 200 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: that can create an environment where not only does he 201 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: not feel like he has to lie, but that you 202 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: don't feel like you have to keep checking up on him. 203 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really funny that you say that, Laurie, because 204 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 4: we talk about trust a lot. Let's just start with 205 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 4: the infidelity part. I asked him openly. I said, I 206 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 4: just need to ask you. Do you believe that infidelity 207 00:11:59,879 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 4: on any level is okay? He said, He'll go out 208 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 4: with some of his friends and they all take pictures 209 00:12:05,839 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 4: of the group of them at the restaurant and send 210 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,239 Speaker 4: it to their wives so that they know that they 211 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 4: are in fact with their friends. And I said, oh, 212 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 4: that just doesn't fly with me. I want to be 213 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 4: able to trust you when you go. If you say 214 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 4: you are where you are, I don't want to check 215 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 4: up on you. I said, that is not the type 216 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 4: of dynamics that I would like to create. So his 217 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 4: answer was absolutely. I don't believe in Fidel. He that 218 00:12:27,879 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 4: he destroys a relationship. He's like, it's the absolute worst 219 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:34,759 Speaker 4: thing you can do in a relationship, he said, because 220 00:12:35,319 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 4: you never regained trust. Ever, it's out the windows. So 221 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 4: I feel like that was an important conversation to have. 222 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 4: He has also said to me that in his past 223 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 4: there were only two very significant relationships in his life. 224 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 4: One was before he was married, and the other one 225 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 4: was this ex And he said, those two people who 226 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 4: he's had a really strong bond with, he was never 227 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 4: unfaithful with. 228 00:12:58,359 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: Can you tell us a little bit about your relationship history, 229 00:13:00,879 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 3: like what your experiences have been. 230 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 4: I'm thirty eight. I've had probably four relationships and they 231 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 4: all lasted between two and three years. When I connect 232 00:13:11,839 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 4: with someone, I really give it a go or give 233 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 4: it my all, not a really casual dater type of person. 234 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 3: Has infidelity been a part of your relationships never? 235 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 4: I told him that if you feel like you want 236 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 4: to be unfaithful, we need to have that conversation and 237 00:13:29,879 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 4: maybe we shouldn't be in a relationship. 238 00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: How long was he married? 239 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 4: Six years? And he's been divorced for just as long. 240 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: Has he had any other relationships since in the six 241 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: years but he's been divorced. 242 00:13:43,359 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 4: He's mentioned several people that he's dated, and then inevitably 243 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 4: he will say that this other person has sort of 244 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 4: been the sort of the demise of the relationship. At 245 00:13:54,599 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 4: some point, like she'll come back in the picture, she reappears, 246 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 4: and then he doesn't give that relationship a chance. I mean, 247 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 4: I'm definitely the longest relationship that he's had since he's 248 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:05,399 Speaker 4: been divorced. 249 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,399 Speaker 1: You said that in all of the other relationships that 250 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: this other woman would appear and that would be the 251 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: demise of the relationship, because she actually has appeared in 252 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: your relationship in the form of a dog. 253 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 4: Absolutely, And what I said at the beginning the first 254 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 4: few months, I said, you know, it's really funny. I 255 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 4: have never met this person, but I hate her already 256 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 4: because she is in the middle of our relationship. 257 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 3: Is the dog still there? 258 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 4: Yes, the X is going to be temporarily relocating to 259 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 4: the other part of the country, and so she has 260 00:14:40,879 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 4: to come back to the city to move out of 261 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 4: her apartment. By the end of the month, she has 262 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 4: to be out. So he has emphatically said that this 263 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 4: dog has got to go by the end of the month. 264 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 3: You are very clear with him that the dog bothers you, 265 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: that he shouldn't have this dog, But you also say 266 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 3: that you don't want to tell him what to do 267 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 3: about the friendship quote unquote correctly, this X, and I'm 268 00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 3: struggling to understand what's the difference really. In other words, 269 00:15:12,879 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 3: it's a big thing to say to someone you cannot 270 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 3: keep this dog, which he's had for several months. He's 271 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 3: basically living alone with the dog, So he might have 272 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 3: his own attachment to the dog because you can get 273 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 3: very lonely and the dog's are wonderful company. You ask, 274 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 3: you know about what the dog represents. The dog represents 275 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: the ex if you feel comfortable saying to him, this 276 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 3: dog shouldn't be here, why don't you feel comfortable saying 277 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 3: and your friendship with this woman who keeps reappearing and 278 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 3: sabotaging the dates you have, she shouldn't be in the 279 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 3: picture either. 280 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 4: You know what, I feel like the dog represents this woman, 281 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 4: But against you doubt yourself. I think, Okay, does this 282 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,999 Speaker 4: dog represent the woman? Is this dog a connection? Or 283 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 4: am I just totally over analyzing the situation. Can he 284 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 4: have a friendship with this person? I mean, he has 285 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 4: mentioned that he's known for twenty something years. But I said, 286 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 4: this is not a friend. I said, I don't have 287 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 4: snacks with my friends like this is. This is not 288 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 4: a normal friend. 289 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: You know, there are times when people are friends with 290 00:16:15,119 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: their exes and it works out just fine because it 291 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: was a relationship, it ended, they transitioned in whatever way 292 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: to friendship. But the difference here is that this woman has, 293 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: as he said, led to the demise of every one 294 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: of his relationships, and that there was also a very 295 00:16:34,359 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: unhealthy aspect to the relationship. Yeah, and you're not able 296 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,759 Speaker 1: to say to him, and I'm not comfortable with this 297 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: woman with whom you have a very complicated, unresolved sexual relationship. 298 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what, I guess. I feel like if 299 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,519 Speaker 4: I say sorry, you can't do that. I don't want 300 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 4: him to think that he has to hide it if 301 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 4: he wants to be friends with her anyway, because he 302 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 4: thinks he can be friends with her. I've tried to 303 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 4: make suggestions based on what I've read, saying things like 304 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 4: I've read that there's things that you can do, like 305 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 4: on following on social media, but Amy, that's so indirect. 306 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: One of the things that I think he really appreciates 307 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: about this relationship, and I think you do too, is 308 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: how open you're able to be with each other, even 309 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: though there is this underlying trust issue. Why not ask 310 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: him what this friendship means to him and why he 311 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: wants to continue this friendship and how he imagines it 312 00:17:31,879 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: will impact this relationship. Have you ever had that conversation 313 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: with him. 314 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 4: I have. His answer has been, I am friendly with 315 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,239 Speaker 4: all of my exes in the sense that I can 316 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,999 Speaker 4: wish I'm a happy birthday, but I'm friends with all 317 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 4: of my exes. I said, here's a difference. I don't 318 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 4: write them on a weekly basis. I don't keep their 319 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 4: animals for them when they leave on a trip. 320 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 3: The problem with this specific X is she comes across 321 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 3: like the bad friends you don't and your kids hanging 322 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 3: around with, because she's a bad influence. She's the one 323 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 3: that all of his friends think is no good. She's 324 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 3: the ones that whenever she comes back, he's not able 325 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,559 Speaker 3: to stand for some reason her charms and ends up 326 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 3: sleeping with her again, even after they supposedly break up 327 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 3: from what wasn't a relationship. Then in October they sleep 328 00:18:20,159 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: with each other again. In other words, he seems to 329 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,799 Speaker 3: not have a great line of defense with this lady. 330 00:18:26,159 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 3: And I think that's the concern that you have about her. 331 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 3: What happens the next time she circles around to see 332 00:18:32,679 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 3: what's what this is? Not about staying in touch with 333 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 3: an ex a next that keeps its on and it's off, 334 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 3: and it's on and it's off. And it sounds like 335 00:18:39,439 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 3: at her bidding a reflection on his feelings or his 336 00:18:44,639 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 3: inability to say no to her. Have you expressed that 337 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 3: to him? 338 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 4: You know, I don't think I have expresses what you 339 00:18:53,359 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 4: just said. That maybe you're vulnerable when she comes around, 340 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 4: because you I know, but this sounds so funny. You 341 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 4: just can't control yourself. Okay, So this is something important 342 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,999 Speaker 4: that I did share with him. My most significant ex, 343 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,759 Speaker 4: who is the person that I thought I was going 344 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 4: to marry. We dated for three years, then he ended 345 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 4: up ending a relationship and he would keep in touch 346 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 4: and if we were traveling in the same city or 347 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 4: something like that, we would hook up. And it started 348 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 4: getting unhealthy because I always wanted to be with him, 349 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 4: so I started being hopeful and I would always get hurt. 350 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 4: So this went on for several years, and I realized 351 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 4: that this person was keeping me from meeting other people. 352 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,519 Speaker 4: Mister dreamman whatever could have walked right in front of 353 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 4: me and I wouldn't have even seen him. So I 354 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 4: shared that story with him, and I told him I 355 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 4: need to tell you how I handled this situation because 356 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 4: it was one of the most difficult things that I 357 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 4: have ever done. The last time we saw each other, 358 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 4: which was a couple of years ago, we had a 359 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 4: great time, but then he started giving me the cold shoulder. 360 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 4: I wanted more, and I texted him and I said, 361 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,999 Speaker 4: please do not ever come duck me again. And not 362 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 4: even five minutes had passed when I said that, and 363 00:20:15,679 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 4: I started texting him. What I meant by what I 364 00:20:20,399 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 4: meant by please do not was please do not write 365 00:20:24,919 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 4: to me in a sexual way anymore. And I started 366 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 4: making excuses for myself and it was like, oh, because 367 00:20:30,159 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 4: you didn't. 368 00:20:30,639 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: It was like, you said, I'm going to quit the drug. Yes, wait, 369 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: just give me a little fixed to keep in my closet. 370 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 4: Just didn't care. 371 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: Justin get. 372 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, this this is like 373 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 4: a drug. I said, I'm done. I am done. And 374 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 4: we never spoke again. And I said, you have no 375 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,239 Speaker 4: idea how difficult that was for me to do and 376 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 4: how empowering. But also I didn't realize how much it 377 00:20:53,679 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 4: was really hurting me. 378 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 3: So how did he respond any Because yes, you like 379 00:20:58,760 --> 00:20:59,559 Speaker 3: teat it right up? 380 00:20:59,679 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 4: He was like someone that wasn't over, like get over 381 00:21:02,399 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 4: the end with a bat. He was like, Okay, I 382 00:21:04,679 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 4: get it, and he'll say things like that. I guess 383 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 4: I want him to say, I've unfollowed her, I've deleted her, 384 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 4: I've done it without me giving an ultimam. 385 00:21:15,639 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 3: Because I think you're also afraid that he will resort 386 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 3: to the white nying about it, and she'll text him 387 00:21:21,439 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 3: and then he'll just know it's just at the grocery 388 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 3: store and here's a picture of me with my friends 389 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 3: in the restaurant. 390 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 4: Right right exactly. 391 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: I think the difficulty hear is that you're asking somebody 392 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,799 Speaker 1: to basically get off his drug and what I think 393 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 1: you're struggling with is that you feel like, well, I 394 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: can tell him to you quit the drugs, but if 395 00:21:45,159 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: he's not ready, it's still an addiction, and he's still 396 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,999 Speaker 1: going to find a way to you know. And so 397 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: that's the conversation. It's nice that you told him about 398 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: your experience because it's very relatable, but at the same time, 399 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: it wasn't a direct request. You're almost trying to be 400 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: his therapist, like, let me give you all these resources, 401 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: I mean to all these ways. 402 00:22:06,399 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 4: To do it. 403 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: But but like you said in your letter, he has 404 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: to want to do it. When people are addicted to something, 405 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: there's a whole process, these stages of change and readiness, 406 00:22:16,439 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: and he may really really enjoy your relationship, but he 407 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: may also still be tied to this addiction. 408 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 4: It's easy to give up the dog. 409 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: By the way, I'm not saying that he's not going 410 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,759 Speaker 1: to experience some loss giving up the dog, but she 411 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: will find a way to insinuate herself into his life. 412 00:22:37,159 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 4: That's a dog or no dog. 413 00:22:38,679 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: So I don't think he's worried that she's going to 414 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: disappear if he gives back the dog. Oh no, it's 415 00:22:43,879 --> 00:22:47,799 Speaker 1: the friendship and friendship we're using that term very loosely. 416 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, Amy, how close has he come to admitting, one 417 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 3: way or the other that it is a drug, that 418 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 3: she is addictive, that he is vulnerable to her. 419 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 4: Never, I mean, I just associate the pattern the behavior. 420 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 4: I feel like we have these cathartic experience. Like I've said, 421 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 4: he does this all the time. He'll he'll really reflect 422 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 4: on a moment, He's like, Wow, something I love about 423 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 4: us and what we do. But a lot of times 424 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 4: he'll he'll compliment it with an explanation or comparison of 425 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 4: why that wasn't working in the other relationship. And I'm 426 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 4: really kind of tired of hearing it. I need this 427 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 4: person to just not be mentioned in this relationship again. 428 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 3: No, but that is that that is the thing, right, 429 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 3: because if he just said, Wow, it's so great with you, 430 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 3: I have such a great time, I feel so great 431 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 3: with you. But I feel so great with you, and 432 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,559 Speaker 3: I didn't feel that way with the drug. And you know, 433 00:23:50,679 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 3: you also are conversations, so this and this and that 434 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 3: conversations with the drug weren't like that. It's not nice 435 00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 3: that I'm called into the drug, but just through reference, 436 00:23:59,919 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 3: I love it. But I can certainly understand, like, can 437 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 3: we just keep it about me? Please? And you say 438 00:24:05,399 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 3: she keeps insinuating herself, but she does. But he's doing 439 00:24:09,919 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 3: the insinuating of her. And I'm not sure that he's 440 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 3: aware of how much this is embedded in so much 441 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,959 Speaker 3: text and subtext. 442 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: But she lives inside him in so many ways. So 443 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: if he's making those comparisons, that means that a lot 444 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: of the time she's sitting there on his shoulder and 445 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: he's making those comparisons. There's so many parallels between your 446 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: relationship with your ex, your recurrent relationship with this boyfriend, 447 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: and his relationship with his drug. I think at the 448 00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 1: heart of all of this is that we think that 449 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: if we give an ultimatum that somehow right, that that's 450 00:24:50,879 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: going to change the way the person feels, it might 451 00:24:52,439 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: change the way they behave. But I think the big 452 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: question is what does it mean to be loved and 453 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: what does it mean to love? And I think there's 454 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: a lot of confusion when there's that addictive aspect to 455 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: a relationship. 456 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,959 Speaker 3: Have you thought through how the handoff goes because he 457 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 3: will have to see her, had any conversations with him, 458 00:25:16,399 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 3: or have you thought through how that handoff of the 459 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:20,999 Speaker 3: dog should go? 460 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 4: You know, I've thought about whether I should be there, 461 00:25:26,679 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 4: whether I shouldn't be there. Some days I want to 462 00:25:30,439 --> 00:25:34,479 Speaker 4: be there because I want her to see me, and 463 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 4: then other days I think, you know what, You're a 464 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 4: mature adult, and if you want to be in this relationship, 465 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 4: I trust that you're going to handle this correctly. Yeah. Yeah, 466 00:25:43,879 --> 00:25:45,719 Speaker 4: I'm not really sure. To be honest with you. 467 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: When we talk about that question of his friendship with her, 468 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,959 Speaker 1: does he always default to you and say what do 469 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: you think I should do or does he have any 470 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: thoughts of his own? 471 00:25:55,399 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 4: What's funny is he separates the two. He says, we 472 00:25:59,679 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 4: didn't work as a relationship, so now we're friends. But 473 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 4: then when maybe if we have a discussion over the dog, 474 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 4: he'll say, yeah, okay, I see that is coming in 475 00:26:10,399 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 4: between us. 476 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: So he's never said I see this makes you really uncomfortable, 477 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: and so I'll set a boundary with this woman. 478 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 4: He has, And the boundary is he doesn't reach out, 479 00:26:22,879 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 4: he doesn't send her photos of the dog. 480 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,719 Speaker 1: That's a boundary that she doesn't know about. 481 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 4: Correct, Okay, so you know what I don't know. I 482 00:26:32,679 --> 00:26:34,959 Speaker 4: know that he told her he's seen someone. 483 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: Do you know what her reaction was to his telling 484 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: her that he's sing someone? 485 00:26:39,159 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 4: He said that she was happy for him, and he 486 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 4: has said he's like, you know what, if she met someone, 487 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,039 Speaker 4: I would be happy for her. 488 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: I think part of the reason that it's hard to 489 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: trust him is because I don't know that he tells 490 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: himself the truth, because he makes these comparisons constantly around 491 00:26:57,879 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: what this relationship is like compared to what wasn't working 492 00:27:00,879 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: at the other relationship, almost as a way to help 493 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: him not go back to the drug, like to almost 494 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: talk himself through, Wait, this is really good, don't screw 495 00:27:09,399 --> 00:27:09,799 Speaker 1: this up. 496 00:27:09,879 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 4: I'm really enjoying this. Yeah, he spoke to a sister 497 00:27:13,399 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 4: about me and she was really excited, really happy, and 498 00:27:16,639 --> 00:27:19,519 Speaker 4: that was her reaction, like, don't mess this up, and 499 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 4: he got a little annoyed. 500 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: So I think the problem with this question of honesty 501 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: is that I don't know that he's ready to be 502 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: honest with himself. So it's going to be hard to 503 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: be honest with you too. 504 00:27:38,879 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 3: So we have some advice for you haven't yet taken 505 00:27:42,159 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 3: a clear stand, And in part we think because it 506 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 3: puts him to the test, puts his intentions and his 507 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 3: love for you to the test, and there's something scary 508 00:27:52,679 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 3: about that, and so you're hoping it will happen spontaneously. 509 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 3: So you're hinting you're talking about the dog rather than 510 00:27:58,639 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 3: about her, And we think we should put it to 511 00:28:02,639 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 3: the test in that way. You have all kinds of 512 00:28:04,879 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 3: good reasons for it to bother you in your history, 513 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 3: in terms of his history, what's going on, and so 514 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:17,759 Speaker 3: you're fully justified in actually addressing it directly and head on. 515 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 3: And we also think that there's a very natural opportunity 516 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 3: for you to do so. So I'm going to pass 517 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 3: it on to Laurie and she'll tell you exactly what 518 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 3: we're suggesting. 519 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 4: Okay, Amy. 520 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,519 Speaker 1: One of the things that I was thinking about was 521 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: that you're thirty eight and you've been in several long 522 00:28:37,679 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: term relationships that have not worked out, and you actually 523 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: talked about almost as a positive thing, that you stay 524 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: the course you stay in there in these relationships, Right, 525 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: it's a lot of time. 526 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 4: It's a lot of time, and. 527 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: So we want to make sure that you're not going 528 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: to spend two or three years in a relationship with 529 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: something that doesn't work, so that you can find out 530 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,759 Speaker 1: more about that now earlier on, and if it's not 531 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: going to work, then you can find somebody who's more 532 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,959 Speaker 1: pro bre it for you. And if it is going 533 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: to work, then great. 534 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. 535 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: And so instead of talking about it in terms of 536 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,559 Speaker 1: an ultimatum, we're talking more about what would happen if 537 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: you went to him and said, if you've had a 538 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: very on again, off again, volatile, complicated relationship with this person. 539 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: She comes up a lot in our conversations. I get 540 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: compared to her a lot. I know you have a 541 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: lot of feelings there still. I know you say you're friends, 542 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: but it just makes me feel like you're not as 543 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: present with me and it brings up some trust issues 544 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: with me as well. And so what I would like 545 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: for me in this relationship is for you to write 546 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: to her before the dog is returned and to let 547 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: her know that you're in a new relationship. You really 548 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,799 Speaker 1: want to focus on that new relationship and that you 549 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: can't be in contact with her, so that she knows 550 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: that before she sees you to return the dog. And 551 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: then when the dog is returned, I would like to 552 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: be there so that I feel comfortable with whatever that 553 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: interaction is, because I do want to trust you, but 554 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: the truth is I don't totally trust you yet. That's 555 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: just because of your history and because I know what 556 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,519 Speaker 1: it's like to have this kind of addiction to a person, 557 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: and so I would feel more comfortable being there. Now 558 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: you're not saying to him and then I will break 559 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: up with you if you don't do this. You're saying, 560 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: this is what I need, and I'm letting you know 561 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: what I need, and you're going to see how responsive 562 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: he is to your needs, and you'll say to him 563 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,719 Speaker 1: I want you to let me know before the dog 564 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,999 Speaker 1: is returned whether this is something that you've decided to 565 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: do or you've decided not to do. 566 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 3: Or rather, I want you to let me know before 567 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 3: the dog is returned whether you're willing to write that 568 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 3: letter and whether you can do it before the dog 569 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 3: is returned. Okay, so that she has the heads up, 570 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 3: so she understands that the receiving of her dog back 571 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 3: is also the ending of the friendship. 572 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: And then Amy, the important part is you're not saying 573 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: and then I will leave. What you're saying is this 574 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: is what I need and I'm being very clear about 575 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: my needs in this relationship. 576 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 4: Then it is not. 577 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,239 Speaker 1: His decision, but it is your decision, Amy, about what 578 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,519 Speaker 1: to do if he chooses to ignore your needs, and 579 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: you can make whatever choice you want, but I hope 580 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: that it's not going to take two years or three 581 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: years for you to make that choice. 582 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 3: You would love for you to tell us about how 583 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,759 Speaker 3: that conversation went, how and when he told you what 584 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 3: his decision was, whether he did see the letter, and 585 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 3: what that was like, and how the handoff of the 586 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 3: dog went. So a lot of different elements that we 587 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 3: would love to hear about all of them. 588 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 4: Got it? Okay? 589 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: Well, thank you Amy, thank you, thank you. Guess we're 590 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: very excited to hear how it goes, so am I okay, 591 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: we look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks so much, 592 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: Guy and Laurie appreciate it. Take care, Bye, bye bye. 593 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,519 Speaker 1: So I really like talking to Amy, and I'm excited 594 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: to hear what she does. I think the one thing 595 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: that she's going to have to grapple with is getting 596 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: over the hump of and what if I lose the relationship, 597 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: which is hard to do, especially during COVID. But I'm 598 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: very excited to hear how that conversation goes and what 599 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: that shows her not so much about him, but about 600 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: herself and her ability to really speak up in a relationship. 601 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 3: And I think having the experience of doing that will 602 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 3: really surf are going forward, whether it's with this guy 603 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 3: or not. 604 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: This is dear Therapist, and we'll be back after a 605 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: short break. 606 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,239 Speaker 3: I'm Laurie Gottlieb and I'm Guy Wench, and you're listening 607 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 3: to deotherapists. 608 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: So, Guy, we heard back from Amy. 609 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 3: Oh, let's hear what you had to say, because she 610 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 3: had a lot to do. 611 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 4: Hi, Laurie Guy. I just wanted to follow up with 612 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 4: my homework. My plan was to talk with him in 613 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 4: person about the letter and why I felt he needed 614 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 4: to write it and why it was important. But I 615 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 4: hadn't had the opportunity to see him because of work. 616 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 4: And on Monday evening, the ex wrote and said, Hey, 617 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 4: I'm coming into town and I'm leaving Wednesday. He said, perfect, 618 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 4: will you come and get the dog on Tuesday. I'll 619 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 4: leave all of the dog's things by the door, and 620 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 4: he said, let yourself in. I didn't know that she 621 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 4: still had a key. I knew nothing about this yet, 622 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 4: but we had plans to see each other Tuesday evening. 623 00:33:54,280 --> 00:34:00,759 Speaker 4: So on Tuesday evening, when he came to see me, 624 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 4: that's when this all came to. Like Wednesday morning, I 625 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 4: received a text message from him and said the dog 626 00:34:09,720 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 4: is gone. But you're not going to believe what happened. 627 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 4: I thought to myself, Oh, try me, so he said. 628 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 4: Tuesday evening he went home, the dog was still there. 629 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 4: He contacted her and said, what happened? Why didn't you 630 00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 4: come and get the dog? She made an excuse and said, listen, 631 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 4: I'm really busy. I'm trying to pack up the apartment, 632 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 4: and I'm leaving tomorrow morning, so I really don't have 633 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 4: time to come and get the dog. By now. It 634 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 4: was eleven o'clock at night. He said, I'm coming to 635 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 4: drop off the dog. He got in his car, went 636 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 4: and dropped off the dog. She basically had no plans 637 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 4: to come and get it. He did tell me that 638 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 4: he was a little concerned because he cares for the dog, 639 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 4: so he said, hey, what are you going to do 640 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,760 Speaker 4: with the dog. She just seemed to be very disinterested 641 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 4: in who kept the dog or the dog's well being. 642 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 4: She was angry that he returned the dog, so she 643 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 4: said to him, well, you were Plan A, so now 644 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 4: I'm moving to Plan B. My ex husband has decided 645 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 4: to take the dog, and then Plan C was to 646 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 4: have another ex partner take the dog. I think it 647 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 4: was what he needed to hear to be like, I've 648 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 4: just been used. I felt like he had just a 649 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 4: moment of clarity. He looked relieved, like this weight was 650 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 4: lifted off his shoulders. I felt relieved about how everything transpired, 651 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 4: but I still felt like I had to talk about 652 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 4: the letter, and things got a little bit uncomfortable. 653 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 3: I'm not going to lie. 654 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 4: It was a really difficult conversation. He said, well, I 655 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 4: never expected this from you. I never thought that you 656 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,760 Speaker 4: would be the person that would ask me to end 657 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 4: a friendship. I said, look, I need you to understand 658 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 4: why this is important to me. I feel like this 659 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 4: is a risk for me if you're not clear in 660 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 4: that this person is no longer a part of your life, 661 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 4: because I don't want to find out six months down 662 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 4: the road that you do, in fact want to be 663 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 4: with this person. He listened, he heard me out, He understood, 664 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 4: and he said, I understand. I'm going to write the letter. 665 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 4: He wrote a letter, He did it, he sent it, 666 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,320 Speaker 4: and he told me that he didn't hear back from her, 667 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,760 Speaker 4: and he said that if he did hear back from her, 668 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 4: he would he would let me know. So that's what happened. 669 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 4: So I guess we will see where this takes us. 670 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: I think this really bodes well for them because when 671 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: she went to him and told him how she felt, 672 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: even if the sequence of events didn't happen as she 673 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: had planned, when the ex girlfriend did not pick up 674 00:36:57,240 --> 00:37:00,280 Speaker 1: the dog, he made a bold move. He went and 675 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: drove the dog to her. He said, I'm not going 676 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: to take care of your dog anymore. And I thought 677 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 1: that was a real show of support for how she 678 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: was feeling. And then, of course when she asked for 679 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: the letter, he ended up sending that letter. And so 680 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: I think this is a really good start to establishing 681 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: trust around this issue. 682 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 3: I agree. I think this was great for Amy because 683 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 3: this was clearly uncomfortable for her to do. I hope 684 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 3: she told him that she appreciated what he did, that 685 00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 3: it was meaningful to her because he did quite a 686 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 3: bunch of stuff, and she really advocated for herself. She 687 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,760 Speaker 3: stood up for herself. She was clear with herself and 688 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 3: with him about what she needed. 689 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: And I think that he got something out of this too, 690 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: which is he got some clarity when he saw when 691 00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:47,720 Speaker 1: he wasn't going to take the dog, that he was 692 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: just one of many who was being asked to. 693 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 4: Do this thing for her. 694 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: So I think there was a moment of clarity for 695 00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: him that maybe he harbored this fantasy that he was 696 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: still special to her and now he was saying, wait 697 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: a minute, I'm seeing who I am to her much 698 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: more clearly. 699 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 3: And how loyal she is to people, including dogs. 700 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they're both going to benefit It really 701 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 1: bodes well for a couple when you can go to 702 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: somebody and say here's something that I'm uncomfortable with and 703 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: that the person is responsive to you. 704 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 3: It also establishes a precedent for them that when something 705 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 3: is uncomfortable, we're going to raise it, we're going to 706 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 3: talk about it, and we're going to resolve It. Is 707 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 3: a great precedent to take forward into a relationship. That 708 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 3: brings us to the end of our show for this week. 709 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening. 710 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 1: You can follow us both online. I'm at Lorigottlieb dot 711 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: com and you can follow me on Twitter at Lorigottlieb 712 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: one or on Instagram at Lorigottlieb Underscore Author. 713 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 3: And I'm at Guywinch dot com. I'm on Twitter and 714 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 3: on Instagram at Guywinch. If you have a dilemma you'd 715 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,760 Speaker 3: like to discuss with us, big or small, email us 716 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 3: at Lorianguy at iHeartMedia dot com. 717 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis. We're produced and edited 718 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: by Mike Johns. Special thanks to Samuel Benefield and to 719 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Couric and Next Time on 720 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: Dear Therapists An adopted woman forms a close relationship with 721 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 1: her biological father, but then a DNA test reveals a 722 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: shocking surprise. 723 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 5: Growing up, it was super important to me to have 724 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 5: the answers as to who my logical parents were, so 725 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,720 Speaker 5: it was pretty devastating when the person who was supposed 726 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 5: to be my father wasn't my father and I had 727 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 5: another father there somewhere. 728 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio.