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Speaker 1: I am thrilled tonight to join you here on the

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Speaker 1: warning with two men I admire a great deal. We

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Speaker 1: have Jonathan Wilson Pargrove, Minister Jonathan with us, and of

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Speaker 1: course we have Bishop William Barber. And both of these

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Speaker 1: men are new to Substack, where they are spreading a

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Speaker 1: gospel of not just the Good Lord's teachings, but of Americanism.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about that. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that I've been dealing with is I took my

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Speaker 1: eighty year old mother to the Normandy Landing Beaches, which

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Speaker 1: is something that she wanted to see a few weeks before.

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Speaker 1: I had the great privilege in Jackson, Mississippi to stand

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Speaker 1: in the driveway on the spot where Medgar Evers was

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Speaker 1: gone down. He was a Normandy veteran. I was at

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Speaker 1: the spot where Medgar Evers would have come ashore, where

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Speaker 1: he would have begun his duty and his journey. And

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Speaker 1: I have been dealing with an incandescent anger as I

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Speaker 1: walked amongst the gravestones the betrayal of American values and ideals.

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Speaker 1: And I know that anger is not healthy, and I

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Speaker 1: know that anger is not productive. But I know my

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Speaker 1: anger about what is happening is very real, and so

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Speaker 1: I couldn't think about two better people to talk about

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Speaker 1: three things before we talk about registering million voters. I'd

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Speaker 1: like to talk about anger, because there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: angry people in America angry about what's happening, and I'm

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Speaker 1: one of them. I'd like to talk about doubt. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like men like Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill

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Speaker 1: and Martin Luther King ever dealt with doubt, But the

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Speaker 1: record shows they all had crises of faith and they

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Speaker 1: all doubted, and we look at them as lions who

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Speaker 1: were strong when everybody else wavered. But it's more complex

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Speaker 1: about that. And then lastly, to talk about faith and

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Speaker 1: how to let go and trust that there is a

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Speaker 1: plan and that things will turn out. And so, with

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Speaker 1: no further ado for me, turn over to you, Reverend Barber,

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Speaker 1: for those of us that are wrestling with anger, with depression,

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Speaker 1: with doubt, with a crisis of faith in the country,

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Speaker 1: how should we process all of this?

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, Steve, thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: having Jonathan and I and the name of your show

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Speaker 2: is really how we should deal with the warning. My

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Speaker 2: father was also a world War two better. And he

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Speaker 2: went in when the army, and that offerses, was segregated.

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Speaker 2: But despite the segregation, and despite the fact that he

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Speaker 2: was drafted, and some say to give first class blood

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Speaker 2: for second class citizenship, he knew the deeper meaning and

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Speaker 2: the possibility and the hope of this country if she

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Speaker 2: leaned into what she had said on paper about establishing justice,

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Speaker 2: providing for the common defense, promoting the general welfare, and

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Speaker 2: ensuring domestic tranquility and equal protection under the law. And

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Speaker 2: nobody had the authority to deny or abridge the right

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Speaker 2: to vote. And so he went in the navy drafted.

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Speaker 2: By the time for the war was over, you know,

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Speaker 2: there was some desegregation of his armed forces. And he

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Speaker 2: went in angry, Steve, he went in angry. But let

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Speaker 2: me say a word theologically about anger. The scriptures, the

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Speaker 2: prophets of the Bible were all angry and injustice. They

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Speaker 2: were angry when they saw people being beaten and betrayed.

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Speaker 2: Take for listening to these words, for instance, Isaiah, woe

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Speaker 2: unto you who legislate evil and robbed the pull of

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Speaker 2: their rights. That doesn't sound like somebody is happy or

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Speaker 2: cry loud and spare not blow your chauffeur, tell the

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Speaker 2: nation of your sins. Or Jeremiah saying it owed that

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Speaker 2: my head was a fountain of tears, that I might

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Speaker 2: weep and cry on behalf of the nation. Or Jeremiah

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Speaker 2: saying I said I wasn't gonna talk anymore about the

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Speaker 2: things of God, but the word is like fire, shut

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Speaker 2: up in my bone. Or Jesus the first day of

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Speaker 2: Holy With on Monday, turns over the tables in the temple,

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Speaker 2: says there's something's wrong here when the place where people

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Speaker 2: are supposed to come for hope and piece has been

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Speaker 2: turning into a dead of beef. And Paul says to us,

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Speaker 2: be angry and sin not. Now what that means is

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Speaker 2: anger comes from and grief. If you're not greathing right

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Speaker 2: now at what you see happening, if you don't grieve

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Speaker 2: and have a sense of grief and anger. When every

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Speaker 2: day President, for instance, and a hit and the majority

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Speaker 2: in the Congress get up and say, let's figure out

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Speaker 2: how we can knock thirty six million people off of

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Speaker 2: health care, off of Medicaid, which we know will cost

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Speaker 2: people their lives. If something doesn't bother you deep down,

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Speaker 2: as doctor, the King said one time, you are to

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Speaker 2: have a a what did he call it? Anger against

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Speaker 2: the injustice? An inherent and an inexhaustible anger. You should

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Speaker 2: never be satisfied, never be satisfied. Now, what we don't

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Speaker 2: want to be is mad in the sense where we're

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Speaker 2: going mad, or we're gonna lose our minds, or we're

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Speaker 2: gonna start using violence and tang up things. But anger

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Speaker 2: at injustice, anger at wrong, anger at hate itself, hating

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Speaker 2: the sin, finding a way to love the sinner is very,

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Speaker 2: very very much a part of what morral descent is.

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Speaker 2: How can you be smiling and eight hundred people are

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Speaker 2: dying a day from posdy and we could stop it.

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Speaker 2: How can you be silent when when folk are saying

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Speaker 2: no to just raising the minimum wage and raising minimum

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Speaker 2: wage to a living wage, when and it hadn't been

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Speaker 2: done since twenty or nine, when CEOs are making three

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Speaker 2: hundred and four hundred times, well, how can you not

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Speaker 2: be angry and bothered and mal adjusted? That's King's word,

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Speaker 2: mal adjusted When you actually see the Constitution being violated,

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Speaker 2: not something but every day by the administrator, When you

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Speaker 2: see people being picked up and taken abroad and put

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Speaker 2: in other jail frustration. I'm angry, but the question is

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Speaker 2: what do you do with that anger? What do you

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Speaker 2: do with it that becomes degranded?

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Speaker 1: Question, Bishop Barber, we've lost your image.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna put it back. I just think I

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Speaker 2: think somehow it got twisted around, but you lost Stay

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Speaker 2: with it, and I'm gonna get right back.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell a quick story while he flips that around.

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Speaker 3: This is absolutely true that you know, in some ways

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Speaker 3: we would be losing our humanity if we weren't angry.

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Speaker 3: But people who aren't used to being angry have to

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Speaker 3: learn where to find the spiritual resources to deal with it.

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Speaker 3: So there was a young there was a young white

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Speaker 3: man who went down to ebenez Or Baptist Church to

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Speaker 3: do his ministry internship with doctor King when he was

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Speaker 3: in seminary, and he came into the church one day

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Speaker 3: after having been harassed on the street by white folks

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Speaker 3: who were who were mad at him for working with

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Speaker 3: these black folks for civil rights. And he didn't he

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Speaker 3: didn't have any experience of being attacked and harassed and

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Speaker 3: yelled at in that way. So he went into doctor

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Speaker 3: King's office and he said, how in the world do

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Speaker 3: you deal with this. And Doctor King's secretary, as the

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Speaker 3: story told, was asking at the moment for him to

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Speaker 3: take the phone for a call from the Justice Department,

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Speaker 3: but he said, no, wait a minute, I need to

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Speaker 3: talk to this young man. And he said He looked

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Speaker 3: at him, and he said, you have to reach down

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Speaker 3: on the inside and find the internal resources, the internal

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Speaker 3: resources that make it possible for you to tap in

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Speaker 3: to the deepest of who you are, because that's both

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Speaker 3: the source of the grief that Bishop Barbara is talking about,

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Speaker 3: but that's also where we're going to find the strength

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Speaker 3: to come together and to build the kind of community

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Speaker 3: that gives hope. So I think we need to remember

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Speaker 3: the lessons of folks like that too.

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Speaker 2: And Steve can I make one point. When Rosam Hawks

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Speaker 2: sat down, remember what caused to sit down on that bus?

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Speaker 2: People had sat down before her in Mountgomery. She had

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Speaker 2: gotten great hope. In nineteen fifty four, the Brown decision

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Speaker 2: had happened. Clesey versus Ferguson was overturned after nearly sixty

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Speaker 2: years of fighting. But then in the midst of that,

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Speaker 2: Emmett Till gets killed in kind of a reaction to

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Speaker 2: the Brown decision and then his killers get acquitted. And

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Speaker 2: contrary to to oftenime, we present Roses, this nice little,

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Speaker 2: sweet little lady, Rosa Parks investigated rapes black women before

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Speaker 2: she ever sat down that bus. She did not. She

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Speaker 2: was very bothered by grieving, if you will, by whatever.

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Speaker 2: And when she saw what happened to Emmett Till and

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Speaker 2: they got acquitted, she then got with some women. They

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Speaker 2: sent her to Highlander, and she knew that she had

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Speaker 2: to reach way down, as Jonathan said, to resources that

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Speaker 2: would allow her to stand up to the system that

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Speaker 2: was destroying people. And that's the difference between righteous indignation,

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Speaker 2: righteous anger, and unrighteous madness when you just lose it.

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Speaker 2: Because when you have righteous anger, the one thing you

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Speaker 2: don't want to become is if you will your adversary

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Speaker 2: or your envy. You don't want to become like them.

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Speaker 2: You want to be different. But what you don't want

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Speaker 2: to do is dismiss the anger. Lastly, when you see,

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Speaker 2: you know, people talking about in the midst of the

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Speaker 2: hard time, we're gonna take two trillion dollars and just

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Speaker 2: give it away back to at the pope called market forces,

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Speaker 2: which will never have delivered hope for everybody or we're

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Speaker 2: going to attack voting rights and lie and suggest that

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Speaker 2: that's flawging to not be angry. And I'm gonna tell

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Speaker 2: you where. For me it is when I see my mother.

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Speaker 2: One day I went home. She's ninety seven years old.

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Speaker 2: My mother helped desegregate schools down in eastern North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: And she said to me, son, I know you're sixty

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Speaker 2: some years old now, she said, but I never thought

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Speaker 2: I would have a son or a child that would

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Speaker 2: have to fight the battles. I thought we already won.

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Speaker 2: And she cried. And what I call it is the

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Speaker 2: one tear cried. In black communities, sometimes women talk about

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Speaker 2: they cried one tier out of one side. That think

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Speaker 2: that means they are greatly disturbed. If that means they

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Speaker 2: a bothered and upset and angry. And she cried that

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Speaker 2: one tier. And then she looked at me and said,

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Speaker 2: I never wanted or thought you would have to fight,

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Speaker 2: but you better fight. What you better not do in

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Speaker 2: this moment is sit down and dismiss it and act

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Speaker 2: like it's okay and say, well, I've made it, and

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Speaker 2: the other folks just gonna have to get along the

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Speaker 2: best way they can. This is the actual wrong season

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Speaker 2: not to have the kind of righteous in the nation

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Speaker 2: and anger that the Bible talks about, which is which,

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Speaker 2: which is necessary, and will force you to reach down

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Speaker 2: and say, what do I do with this? What do

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Speaker 2: I do with this to change the situation? Because if

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Speaker 2: we're anglish deed, imagine what the people are who are

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Speaker 2: losing their health care. Imagine what the people are to

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Speaker 2: the that that got to figure out the night. Do

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Speaker 2: I sleep in the car to night or do I

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Speaker 2: buy some medicine or some milk? If we're angry, imagine

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Speaker 2: where they are. And what we don't want to see

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Speaker 2: is a country that turns to madness because the energy

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Speaker 2: is going to go somewhere. It's going somewhere. And so

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Speaker 2: this is the very moment that we need a moral

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Speaker 2: movement that says the folk, we do have guidelines and

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Speaker 2: compasses for what we do in moments of history where

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Speaker 2: anger is a necessary part, just like truth and justice

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Speaker 2: and crying and tears. And this is one of those

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Speaker 2: moments that we have to transfer my anger into deep

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Speaker 2: righteous action that seeks to change what is going on.

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Speaker 1: When I'm walking these beaches in Normandy and or standing

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Speaker 1: in the Canadian cemetery, and you see the graves. I

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Speaker 1: went and stood on the spot in Dashoba County, Mississippi

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Speaker 1: where the three civil rights workers were murdered in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty three. And these people, American martyrs, all gave their lives,

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Speaker 1: people who didn't have much, not like El Musk in

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Speaker 1: the way of material things, but gave everything they had

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Speaker 1: and more for the most ephemeral concept freedom, dignity to

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Speaker 1: live life in God's image. And when you ponder that

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Speaker 1: sacrifice and you think about this moment, your sub stack

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Speaker 1: is called this moral moment, and it is a moral moment.

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Speaker 1: And I think that when we talk about politics, there's

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Speaker 1: an allergy on the part of a lot of politicians,

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Speaker 1: particularly democratic politicians, to combine politics and morality overtly. And

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Speaker 1: I don't see how we get out of this unless

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Speaker 1: it is framed as fundamentally what it is, which is

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Speaker 1: a moral crisis and a moral fight between right and wrong,

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Speaker 1: and that seeing that clearly is of the highest highest importance.

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Speaker 1: And so for example, when a democratic governor says, well,

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Speaker 1: mister Garcia, who has been sold to an al Salvador

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Speaker 1: and gulag to a dictator, is the wrong fight at

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Speaker 1: the wrong time. My response to that, not as a

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Speaker 1: spiritual leader, not as a moral leader, but as a

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Speaker 1: political strategist, is that could not be more wrong. Is

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Speaker 1: that sometimes the fights we must fight and the time

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Speaker 1: we must fight them are not chosen by us but

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Speaker 1: by others. But it does not alleviate the necessity of

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Speaker 1: the fight. And so I'd just like to hear you

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Speaker 1: both talk about this exact moment in time through that

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Speaker 1: prism of the moral moment. And let me just say

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Speaker 1: that one of the most important things we have almost

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Speaker 1: two thousand people on and many more we'll see it

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Speaker 1: in the aftermath. If you are not subscribing yet to

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Speaker 1: Reverend Barbara, Bishop Barbara and to Minister Jonathan's Moral Moment,

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Speaker 1: sub stack, please do so. These are two of the

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Speaker 1: most important voices. We'll get more into this in this country,

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Speaker 1: in this moment right now. And so one of the

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Speaker 1: things about Bishop Barber, one of the things about Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: when you think about all of the great things that

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Speaker 1: they have done, I don't have a doubt in my

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Speaker 1: mind in that book of records that chronicles what we

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Speaker 1: did in our time here, what these men will be

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Speaker 1: most remembered for is a lifetime of service to others,

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Speaker 1: but acutely in this moment of crisis. And so these

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Speaker 1: are exceptional men coming into this exceptional moment I feel,

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Speaker 1: I know in a profound way, and that's why I

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Speaker 1: want all of you to follow them. But I just

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Speaker 1: ask you, Bishop Barbara, can you talk about the moral moment?

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Speaker 2: As you said, you know Steven and said, I think

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Speaker 2: that for you to raise what a governor said, now

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Speaker 2: the democratic government said about the wrong fight actually portrays

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Speaker 2: the moral shallowness and weakness that we must overcome. Benjamin

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Speaker 2: Franklin actually said that it would be better for one

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Speaker 2: hundred guilty men to go free than for one innocent

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Speaker 2: person to be found guilty. In our system where the

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Speaker 2: constitution is designed to protect the minority in the real sense, like,

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Speaker 2: for instance, it doesn't require fifty people's constitutional right to

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Speaker 2: be violated for it to be wrong. If one person's

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Speaker 2: right is violated, they can go to court challenge the

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Speaker 2: violation on costitus the ground. Why is that because something

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Speaker 2: called president If you start allowing a president and his

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Speaker 2: gang to just lift people off the street, to admit

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Speaker 2: that they picked up somebody innocent and to send them away,

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Speaker 2: and there's no moral outcry. Then you open up the

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Speaker 2: door for that to become president, and the question becomes

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Speaker 2: who's next. What we're wrestling with, Steve, And it's not

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Speaker 2: even an issue of being political versus moral or religious.

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Speaker 2: Nobody is argued. Jonathan and I have not argued that

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Speaker 2: everybody has to be Christian or a particular faith. However,

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Speaker 2: we say in this country that money of our laws

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Speaker 2: are rooted into their Christian traditions. But when we mean

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Speaker 2: Maral movement, we mean a place even where people who

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Speaker 2: may not have a particular the religious faith, but they

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Speaker 2: believe deeply in the Morrow foundations that were written on

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Speaker 2: paper in this country, even when the men that wrote

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Speaker 2: them were not living up to them. I often say

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Speaker 2: one of the great things about those back then is

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Speaker 2: they wrote into the process amendments that you could change.

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Speaker 2: And maybe it's because they recognized that they were flawed

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Speaker 2: in the way in which they were following the very

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Speaker 2: things they wrote, but they wanted to give succeeding generations

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Speaker 2: the ability not to stay that. So, for instance, in

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Speaker 2: the Decoration of Independence, it actually said Steve that when

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Speaker 2: there's been a long train of abuses, it is the

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Speaker 2: duty ut y of of people to change that system

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Speaker 2: of government, to throw it off when there's been abuse

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Speaker 2: out and so in a real sense, when we're saying

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Speaker 2: default is when you swam, When politician, you put your

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Speaker 2: hand on that Bible and you swam the uphold the Constitution,

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Speaker 2: what you're really saying is every piece of policy that

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Speaker 2: I support will meet these basic standards. Number one would

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Speaker 2: does it establish justice or is it just for a few? Two?

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Speaker 2: Does it provide for the common defense of all? Three?

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Speaker 2: Does it promote the general welfare? Four? Does it bring

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Speaker 2: the community peace or disunity? Five? Does it represent equal

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Speaker 2: protection under the law? And if that policy doesn't meet

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Speaker 2: those basic mal principles, then it is wanting. It is

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Speaker 2: of being constitutional, it's flawed. It's a matter of right

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Speaker 2: versus wrong. When courtbook are sitting there. The other day

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Speaker 2: in his Senate speech, he actually was lifting something that

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Speaker 2: we've been saying in our movement since we since repairs

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Speaker 2: to the breach was found the all the way back

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Speaker 2: to Themorrow movement in North Carolina. When we said the folk,

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Speaker 2: they said, but you don't have the votes. It's another

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Speaker 2: group in majority said that it has nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with moral descent. Who's in the majority because if the

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Speaker 2: majority is not following its own oath, then that majority

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Speaker 2: must be challenged. I'll give you one quick example in

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Speaker 2: North Carolina, when black and white people came together in

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Speaker 2: eighteen sixty eight to rewrite the constitution in a way

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Speaker 2: that moved us away from the vestitors of slavery and

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Speaker 2: discrimination to a more just society. They guaranteed the public

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Speaker 2: education as a fundamental right in the state of North Carolina,

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Speaker 2: that every legislature had to ensure that every child, at

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Speaker 2: that time's male child, but later on every child had

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Speaker 2: had had a quality education, a sound basic So when

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Speaker 2: we assue that, we found not all one hundred counties,

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Speaker 2: but a number of counties where that was not happening.

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Speaker 2: And the courts agreed, because what they said was you

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Speaker 2: cannot swear uphold that. And then when you get in

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Speaker 2: the office, cut all the money in public education, cut

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Speaker 2: all the money. You can't do. It's contract is wrong.

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Speaker 2: And so today we have to have a moral movement.

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Speaker 2: When you have people saying in the mag of movement,

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Speaker 2: and and you've got these uh uh uh, this this

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Speaker 2: gang of billionaires they call themselves the dark Mafia, or

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Speaker 2: you've got people now talking about uh apocalyptic fascism, you know,

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Speaker 2: fascism that wants to live a form of running government

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Speaker 2: that literally wants to say things are ending and then ended.

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Speaker 2: In other words, you're self fulfilling prophecy, you say, and

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Speaker 2: you want to do this regardless of who it hurts.

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Speaker 2: As long as a few peoples of our people are

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Speaker 2: talking about they want free cities where a certain it's

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Speaker 2: not we the people is us few, us few, not

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Speaker 2: we just us few. Those are dangerous im moral categories.

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Speaker 2: It's dangerous in all ways of talking about leading a country,

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Speaker 2: and they must be challenged. This is a moment. Lastly,

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Speaker 2: whether whether you believe in the molarc of the universe

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Speaker 2: bes toward justice that you need to be a part

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Speaker 2: of bending it. If you're a person of faith and

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Speaker 2: your faith tells you that those empowered politicians. As my

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Speaker 2: book tells me and Matthew twenty five, it says that

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Speaker 2: every nation steed not individual, It's not by individual piety.

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Speaker 2: Every nation will be judged by these four critiques. When

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Speaker 2: I was hungry, did you feed when I was naked?

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Speaker 2: Did you clothe me? When I was an immigrant? Did

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Speaker 2: you welcome me when I was in prison? Did you

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Speaker 2: come to see and when I was sick, did you

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Speaker 2: visit me? And that up he'll me. How you treat

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Speaker 2: the least of these is a judgment on the nation.

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Speaker 2: And and and and we've had these battles in America before,

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Speaker 2: time and time again. And there are moments like ending slavery.

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Speaker 2: There are moments like women's suffrage. There are moments like

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Speaker 2: when you need a new deal. There are moments throughout

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Speaker 2: the American process when the only thing that got us

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Speaker 2: out was when say, for instance, Kennedy or Johnson would

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Speaker 2: give a speech and say, fundamentally, this is a moral issue.

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Speaker 2: Or Roosevelt would say something like, uh, we only have

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Speaker 2: to see the only thing we have to fee and

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Speaker 2: fear itself. Or any court operation that doesn't pay people

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Speaker 2: of basic living wad has no right to really exist

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Speaker 2: and work in America. Or Teddy Roosevelt when he broke

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Speaker 2: with both parties in nineteen twelve and gave his bull

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Speaker 2: speech and said that they are just some fundamental things,

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Speaker 2: protecting the environment, long term care for our senior citizen,

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Speaker 2: paying a basic minimum wave He said those issues were

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Speaker 2: not Democrat or Republican. It really was about right versus wrong.

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Speaker 2: We must have a massive movement of people, clergy, rabbis,

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Speaker 2: im mobs, people of faith, people not of faith, who

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Speaker 2: believe in tomorrow universe. To say what we are seeing

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Speaker 2: right now is just wrong. It's just wrong. And it's

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Speaker 2: not just wrong in terms of feeling wrong. It's wrong

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Speaker 2: because it's deadly, it's hurting people. It's political violence, it's

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Speaker 2: social balance, it is policy. And I feel like Frederick

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Speaker 2: Douglas when he said something because this critique has to

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Speaker 2: be rooted in love. And this is what Frederick Douglas

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Speaker 2: said when he was asked one time, what did he

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Speaker 2: think about slaveholding religion that justified slavery, tried to make

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Speaker 2: that which is wrong right, which we see happening today

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Speaker 2: with the so called religious nationalism. Frederick Douglas said, because

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Speaker 2: I love the peaceable, pure, just and truth telling religion

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Speaker 2: of Jesus, I must hate the lying man, stealing, destructive

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Speaker 2: religion of the slave master. You cannot love one without

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Speaker 2: hating the other. There are ideals. It's not about being

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Speaker 2: against one person, it's about what's being promoted. And you

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Speaker 2: cannot be for freedom at liberty on the one hand,

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Speaker 2: and then be for tyrancy and abuse of the law

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Speaker 2: on the other, the two can't exist equal. They're not

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Speaker 2: too equal existing moral positions one is wrong and one

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Speaker 2: is right.

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Speaker 3: One of the gifts of one of the gifts of

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Speaker 3: our life is that we get to teach public theology

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Speaker 3: to our students at Yell Divinity School. And when we do,

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Speaker 3: we look at these moral movements in the history of

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Speaker 3: the United States, and Reverend Barber mentioned a few of them.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there was the fight against the claim that

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Speaker 3: you could own other human beings. There was the fight

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Speaker 3: for labor rights, fight for women's suffrage, the civil and

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Speaker 3: human rights of the mid twentieth century. And in all

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Speaker 3: of these movements, when we look closely at where the

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Speaker 3: moral authority came from, at the heart of it, it's

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Speaker 3: that people who were directly impacted by these injustices stood

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Speaker 3: up right. I mean, we always need all kinds of leaders,

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Speaker 3: but the moral authority at the root of these movements

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Speaker 3: are you know, women like Fanny lou Hamer who says,

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Speaker 3: I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. You know,

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Speaker 3: I know this from my own experience, and so in

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Speaker 3: this moment, I think it's critical in the movement building

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Speaker 3: that we're trying to do that. We listen closely to

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Speaker 3: you know, who are the people who are the people

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Speaker 3: who are being directly impacted. I mean the moral voice

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Speaker 3: that's ringing out about this neighbor of ours who has

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Speaker 3: been disappeared to the prison you mentioned in Ol Salvador

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Speaker 3: is his wife and kids and their neighbors who are

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Speaker 3: crying out and say, we know that God hears our cry.

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Speaker 3: We know that this is wrong, and we're inviting our

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Speaker 3: neighbors to join us in this. I think that's the

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Speaker 3: kind of voices we need at the heart of a

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Speaker 3: moral movement.

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Speaker 2: Steep I mentioned one peace just cross. There is this

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Speaker 2: scripture in the ancient Hebrew text, and I want your

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Speaker 2: listeners today to hear the sound of it because it

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Speaker 2: is applicable. The prophet is looks at the nation and

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Speaker 2: he sees how people are using He says, he says,

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Speaker 2: we must loose the bands of wickedness. That's the language,

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Speaker 2: but in Hebrew, when you translate that, it means pay

433
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 2: people what they deserve. In other words, to refuse to

434
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: pay people what they deserved in the ancient prophet's mind

435
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: was a form of wickedness. To be the greed was

436
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: a form of wickedness, and and and then but then

437
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 2: earlier he's looking at the unholy uh alliance of some people,

438
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: from corruptive people in the in the religious order, and

439
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: the politicians or the princes, if you will, that they say,

440
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: and he says this word whoa? Now, whoa we? Anytime

441
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: you see that I come from the country steed. Well,

442
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: well that's what you said to a stubborn me.

443
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: Whoa stop.

444
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 2: So the fact that the prophet says whoa to the

445
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: whole nation who't? And then he says, to those who

446
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: legislate evil, Now that's not my word, these are words

447
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 2: straight out of scripture. Who legislate evil and rob the

448
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: poor poo r of their rights and make women and

449
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: children p r a e y pray. If you listen

450
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 2: at that imagery, it is saying whenever politicians use their

451
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: power not to uplift people, but they get caught up

452
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: in some kind of mythology that convinces now the right

453
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: use of power is to get up every morning they

454
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: figure out who you can hurt, particular only those on

455
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: the margins. That that is a form of wickedness, It

456
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 2: is a form of evil, and it must be challenged

457
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: both in hopes that the people doing it will be

458
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: redeemed and changed and see the error of their way,

459
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 2: but to stop what is going on. And so in

460
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: our movement we think there are four movements. First, in

461
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: a moment like this, you must have what we call

462
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 2: moral analysis, what's really going on, So we get the

463
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 2: best think tanks and people to exam. Right now, we

464
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: have a piece called the High moraw calling of this budget,

465
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: the high moral cost of this budget, And we went

466
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: inside of it and looked at these numbers and how

467
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: devastating it will be. One number one of the footnotes

468
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: is twenty four million children, not black children, but white,

469
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: twenty four million children losing access to free and reduced lunch.

470
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: We looked at if you cut medical k the way

471
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: it's going to have to be cut, what it would

472
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: do the rural hospital, what it will do in Appalachia

473
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 2: and in the delta of Mississippi. Then you but you

474
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: have to have Marlin. Now, then if you have Marral analysis,

475
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: you have to have what we call marl articulation. How

476
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: do you get how do you make that persons understand

477
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: what's going on Because a lot of times so much

478
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: is done with so much cover up. You know, the

479
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: Pope before he died said, isn't it strange that if

480
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: Wall Street goes down, it's a headline story. But if

481
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 2: somebody is sleeping in their car having to decide how

482
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: they're going to feed their family, but they also work

483
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 2: every day, but they work at such a low wage

484
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: they can't afford a basic two bedroom apartment, how is

485
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: that not a headline story? These are the contradictions. So

486
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: how do we articulate, how do we get the voice

487
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: not of people speaking for people? But people are young

488
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: and said themselves, which is the greatest marbles. Then the

489
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: third thing is maral agenda. No anger at injustice is

490
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 2: sufficient if you don't offer a replacement. If you don't offer,

491
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 2: you can't just curse the darkness. You have to say

492
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: there is something better, there's a way better, and this

493
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 2: is what the better way would look like. But then

494
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: finally you have to take mall action. Now your listeners

495
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: may not know this, but on ass Wednesday, we took

496
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 2: about four hundred clergy and impact the people into the rotunda,

497
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: I mean into the capitol. Now there's an insurrection, was

498
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: a resurrection, and delivered to them this study called the

499
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: High bar car. Do you all really realize what you're doing?

500
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 2: Remember all five hundred some of them, and we delivered

501
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: it to both the Speaker of the House and opposition

502
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: parties leaders so far, and then we get they gathered

503
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 2: in the retunda. I didn't go in deliberately on last Wednesday?

504
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: Do you know Steve that when they got in the

505
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 2: rotunda and they were asked by one of the officers

506
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 2: what do y' all planned to do? And they said,

507
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 2: we plan to buy our heads in pray. The officer

508
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: told them the new rules are. If you buy your

509
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 2: head in prayer, it will be seen as an act

510
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: of violation and aggression in a country that says we

511
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: have the freedom of religion and the freedom of speak.

512
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 2: You tell clergy who were in full vestments by the way,

513
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: Steve roads crossing, you know, to let people know press

514
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: all for our Jewish brothers and sisters, if you just

515
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: buy it. When we have gone to that left and

516
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 2: that depth, we cannot refuse to take action, non violent action,

517
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: whatever it takes to put our bodies on the line

518
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 2: in such a way that our bodies speak and say

519
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 2: the folk this is wrong and it doesn't have to

520
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 2: be and it will only be if we be quiet

521
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: and we don't say anything, because the only way a

522
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 2: king gets to be a king is if the people

523
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: about it.

524
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: Right, Ron, Barbara, do you plan to go back to Washington,

525
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: to the Capitol rotunda and bow your head and face

526
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: possible arrest.

527
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: Well, I tell you what I'm living to do. On

528
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 2: this coming Monday. We have called for clergy all over

529
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: the country and impacted people to join us for the

530
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: beginning of Marrow Monday in DC. We're going on this

531
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: fourth Monday and then every first Monday of the month,

532
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: and it may escalate bigger, but we're gonna start with

533
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 2: the first Monday. It will happen. We were on the

534
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 2: call last night with hundreds of clergy and impact the people,

535
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 2: and we're going, and we're going this particular Monday to

536
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: deliver to every member of the Congress what the budget

537
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 2: will do to workers and children. Because the process of

538
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: nourvice is you have to make sure that the persons

539
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: you're standing against know exactly why you're doing it. We

540
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: do intend to go in full investment. We do intend

541
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 2: to go in the rech under like any other visitor,

542
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 2: and I will have to for as reasons leave that

543
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: we never go to get arrested. We never do anything

544
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 2: and get arrested. But what we will do at times

545
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 2: is we cannot say yes to something that is contrary

546
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 2: to both our promises of our faith and promises of

547
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: our democracy. So I'm going with others who are coming

548
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 2: and we and but we're not. It's not a spectacle

549
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 2: one time, Steed. We're launching smorrow Monday in DC. Folk

550
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: can go to Breach Repairs dot org and learn all

551
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: about it. And we've got a lot of other partners

552
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: and denominational leaders that are joining us in impact the

553
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 2: people that are joining.

554
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: Does the clergy that you're going with generally agree that

555
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: it is important to be able to if they choose

556
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: bow their head and pray under the rotunda in the

557
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: United States Capital as is their first amendment?

558
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 2: Right? Oh yeah, they all agree with that. And people

559
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 2: have to make decisions because you know, we've been told

560
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: some things about even what the new penalty is, but

561
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: it points out how far we've gone. Some say that

562
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,479
Speaker 2: that penalty can be up there now five hundred dollars

563
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 2: six months in jail. But of course all this stuff

564
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 2: has to be challenged in court. But the reason they're

565
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 2: bow it is because of John. I hope you'll tell

566
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 2: us or about another person who used to beg people

567
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: to come to pray here. But why are we that?

568
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 2: Why are we going investments because the situation is so bad,

569
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 2: you know, we want to see Republicans and Democrats turned.

570
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,959
Speaker 2: I'm like used to Steve. I got very bothered three

571
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 2: years ago when all Republicans and a group of eight

572
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: Democrats voted against thirty five million Americans and saying no,

573
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 2: they're raising the minimum wage at fifteen dollars an hour.

574
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 2: It was just ridiculous considering the hurt and the pain

575
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 2: that people are in. So why would clergy put on

576
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 2: their investments to make sure people know we're not there

577
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: just as individuals, but we're doing ministry. We're giving the

578
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: nation the pastoral care that it needs at this moment

579
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 2: and the prophetic challenge that it needs at this moment.

580
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: Why would they do that? Why would they Because to

581
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: do less than that, to say nothing, would be a

582
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: form of religious malpractice. Democracy democratic malpractice. I don't mean

583
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,959
Speaker 2: Democrats of the party because right now, I think Steve,

584
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: you and I have talked about this. We're not just

585
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 2: in a this is not just a crisis of political parties.

586
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: This is a crisis of civilization, This is a crisis

587
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 2: of humanity. If we claim that America has the greatest

588
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 2: economic power in this world, the greatest military power, and

589
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: the greatest imprint on the CLNT, this country goes that

590
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 2: direction where the main decision about policies we make is

591
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 2: how a few will get more and how those who

592
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 2: are trying to make it will get less. If that's

593
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: the way that we go, without any regret, without any resistance,

594
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: what happens to the rest of civilization and society itself.

595
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 2: This is a borrow moment. This is a gut check

596
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 2: moment for this country.

597
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 3: I'm just going to say quickly, in any movement, the

598
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 3: point of direct action is to expose right, to shine

599
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 3: a light and help people see what's really happening. And

600
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 3: for far too long a political movement in this country

601
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 3: has actually used Christianity. Sociologists call this Christian nationalism these days,

602
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 3: but has tried to use Christianity to really prop up

603
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 3: extremism in politics. And what Bishop Barber was referencing is

604
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 3: that you know, the folks who were leading the Congress

605
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 3: right now, many of them are tied to these Christian

606
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 3: nationalist organizations that for years have invited their supporters to

607
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 3: come to the rotunda, and a guy named David Barton

608
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,760
Speaker 3: has stood in there and told them stories he's largely

609
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 3: made up about how this has been a kind of

610
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 3: sacred space and that you know, they need to be

611
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 3: able to worship there and pray. But when people who

612
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 3: disagree with them, people who challenge their abuse of power,

613
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 3: want to come and pray, then all of a sudden,

614
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 3: religious freedom is out the window and there's a threat

615
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 3: of the rest. So that's why we have to pray.

616
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 3: Because of course the prayers of the cries of people

617
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 3: are being heard by pastors, they have to lift those

618
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 3: to God. But we have to pray in public because

619
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 3: it's an important part of our vocation to make those

620
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 3: prayers known not only to God but to the people

621
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: in power.

622
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: I had a conversation with you, Jonathan that left an impression,

623
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: and you talked about your devotion to the doctrine of

624
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: nonviolence and talked about your commitment to it, talked about

625
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: if necessary, and it was not a frivolous comment about

626
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: laying down your life. And I see some of the

627
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: comments rolling below, and there will be a moment that

628
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: comes later this summer, I feel for sure, but it's coming.

629
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what day of the week, but

630
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: there's going to be a moment when a massive Americans

631
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: are facing a massive uniforms and those uniforms will lower

632
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: weapons at peaceful protesters on the orders of the state.

633
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: I don't have a doubt in my mind about that.

634
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: And the question is for those who will be in

635
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: the front row, close to the barrels of the rifle,

636
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: and I know that you will, proverbially, in any instance

637
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: be one of those people. I think about Lewis, and

638
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: we think about the Edmund Pettis Bridge, and go to

639
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: the Edmund Pettis Bridge and walk across it in a

640
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: group or walk across it alone. When John Lewis did

641
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: it with peaceful people, they were walking into the devil's teeth.

642
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: They were walking into death, and they faced it. And

643
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: John Lewis almost lost his life there that day.

644
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: He did not.

645
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: But when we think about what's coming, how do you

646
00:45:46,440 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: model courage for people? Arc of the that is that minor.

647
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: Yours is saying it's mine that the moral arc of

648
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: the universe is long. We would have agreed with that right,

649
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: and it bends towards it, It bends towards justice. You know,

650
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: to what Bishop Barber's mom said, to what Bishop Barber's

651
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: mom said about h I understand that I was frozen.

652
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: So I'll try to I'll try to get this, to

653
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: get this out clearly what Bishop Barber's mom said at

654
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: ninety one, which is that I just never thought that

655
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: you'd have to refight this fight right, this idea that

656
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: the moral arc of the universe is long, but it

657
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: bends towards justice, and now all of that is in doubt.

658
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: What do you say to peopleeople who are afraid, who

659
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: sense the the stakes are high, who are looking to

660
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: find their courage in this moment. And what I tell

661
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 1: people is that, you know, there's an old definition of courage.

662
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: It's not about not being afraid. It's about recognizing there's

663
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: something more important than your fear right that helps you

664
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: take that step off the first line.

665
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 3: You know, John John Lewis, who you mentioned, was a

666
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 3: student of Jim Lawson. Bishop Berber and I are also

667
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 3: students of Jim Lawson. Many people who who've learned the

668
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 3: tradition of non violence in this country know that the

669
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 3: commitment to meet violence with non violence is ultimately.

670
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: We have frozen ass here that I am not frozen

671
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 1: right now.

672
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 2: You're coming through a mind and hear me.

673
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: Okay, I got you back, Jonathan, can you dear me?

674
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 1: I got you Bishop. There we go.

675
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 2: I was.

676
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 3: I was saying that the conviction that that nonviolence is

677
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 3: the right response to violence is is is a conviction

678
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 3: that it's actually more powerful, that it taps into, uh

679
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 3: the fundamental reality of who we are and what truth

680
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 3: is in the world, and what people who practice that

681
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 3: know is that there is inside you know, all of us,

682
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 3: you know, things that will won't make us want to

683
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 3: turn away, And so we have to train ourselves. Then

684
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 3: we have to be part of a community that's committed

685
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 3: to this kind of It's not that you know, individuals

686
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 3: are going to rise up in some sort of you know,

687
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 3: heroic effort. The sit in movement was led by people

688
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 3: who had practiced, who had you know, with people who

689
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 3: they knew and trusted, had practiced playing the roles of

690
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 3: you know, the people who would knock you off the stool,

691
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 3: and rather than get up and fight back, who would

692
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 3: sit back and continue to focus on the goal, not

693
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 3: just of staying there, but of ultimately transforming the people

694
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 3: who were committing the violence against them. And I think

695
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 3: that hope that even people who have been deeply twisted

696
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 3: and really removed from their humanity by evil and by

697
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: evil systems can in fact be redeemed because at the

698
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 3: route and part of every one of us is the

699
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 3: humanity that was stamped on to us by our creator,

700
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 3: and no matter how depraved we might be, we don't

701
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 3: lose that. I think that's the core conviction of non violence,

702
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 3: and so we need to be in communities where we're

703
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 3: spending time getting to know that humanity of one another

704
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 3: and practicing how we might use the power of nonviolence

705
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 3: to resist the evil that's going to happen. Because I'll

706
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 3: say this, the administration and autocratic regimes like the one

707
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 3: we're dealing with right now, they want violence. They want

708
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 3: there to be a violent response in public so that

709
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 3: they can use that to justify the militarization of police

710
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 3: and even you know, putting troops on the ground. In

711
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 3: the United States, they would very much like that. And

712
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 3: it's it's our job as a movement to prepare the

713
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 3: kind of discipline that will be needed in order to

714
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 3: use nonviolence to expose their violence so that everyone can

715
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 3: see it for what it is.

716
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 1: Well, that's a that's a powerful word. You just said

717
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:56,720
Speaker 1: there that I'm going to steal from you and repeat back.

718
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: But a disciplined movement, a disciplined opposition, a fierce opposition,

719
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:12,919
Speaker 1: a moral opposition that is fierce and disciplined. An American

720
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: is something to be reckoned with and.

721
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 2: Steve A discipline movement that's rooted in the greatest power

722
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 2: in the universe. Scripture says, perfect love cast out fear.

723
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: So the opposite of courage is not fear is the

724
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 2: absence of what do you really love? What's worse? What?

725
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 2: In other words, when you consider your life and while

726
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 2: you're here with others, what is it that you love

727
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 2: so much that's so important not just to you but

728
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 2: to those around you, that you're willing to stand up for.

729
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 2: So the discipline of the movement, you know, people didn't

730
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 2: just go out and just thought doing nonviolence. That there's

731
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 2: processes to it. And not only that they knew what

732
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: they were fighting for, right they also looked backwards to

733
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 2: go forward. The Sanko fo bird flies forward looking backwards. So,

734
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 2: for instance, right now, and this may sound to some

735
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 2: people strained, but we have to stop saying this is

736
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: the worst moment we've ever seen, because it's insulting to people.

737
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: That comes from people who stayed hopeful through two hundred

738
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 2: and fifty years of slavery and the indigenous people in

739
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 2: this country who who saw their lands and things robbed

740
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 2: and taken away. It is banned, but in a real

741
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 2: sense we need right now to people need to be

742
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 2: looking at those who had to make decisions, whether it's

743
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: we have Lord Garrison, who was an abolitionist, white abolition

744
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 2: who said when he was in jail on one occasion,

745
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 2: William Lord Garrison was placed in this jail for preaching

746
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: the damnable gospel that all men are creating equal I

747
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,760
Speaker 2: mean he wrote on So there's a sense in which

748
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 2: we have to know who we are. We talked about Lewis,

749
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: but we have to remember that forty years before John

750
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 2: Lewis ever came to Selma, black and white and Jewish

751
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 2: people in Selma had been standing and fighting for voting rights.

752
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 2: And one of the reasons John Lewis got hit so

753
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: hard to dance because he was helping Ms. Boyington, who

754
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 2: lived to be some ninety here, ninety nine years old,

755
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 2: who was a teacher and all, but she was hit

756
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 2: on that day what we call bloody Sunday. And what

757
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 2: also made Bloody Sunday so powerful is that the movement

758
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 2: operated in such a way that Bloody Sunday didn't happen

759
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: outside of the eyes of the camera. One of my

760
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:07,919
Speaker 2: professors said to me in history, he said, asked us

761
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 2: why did the segregation sides come down, and we were young.

762
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 2: We all say because people martials to them. He said no,

763
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 2: we said, yesterd is No, That's not the only reason.

764
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 2: He said. Part of the strategy was to embarrass the

765
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 2: leadership of the greedy means spirit of leadership of America

766
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 2: on the world stage, because America would often go to

767
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: other countries and chastise them. But when those when the

768
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 2: world saw in America people having dogs turned on there

769
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: and their rights being violated, it caused a form of

770
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 2: global embarrassment and forced a new conversation and consideration about

771
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: who we are and what we're doing, and why things

772
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 2: have to shift. So I believe, like you, I think

773
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 2: there are two possibilities. The one possibility is that folk

774
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 2: can just get angry and go off and just just

775
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 2: do any and everything, which could be very, very detrimental,

776
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 2: and as Jonathan said, is what they want Trump wants.

777
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 2: The other is discipline, strong, courageous, fears studied movement with

778
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: the clear demands, clear articulation, letting people know we're not

779
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 2: just fighting an individual, because in a sense, if one individual,

780
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: let's just say, was in peace and put out of office,

781
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 2: I know that that would not stop what's happening now,

782
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 2: it would not stop the level in witch Maga and

783
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 2: the extremist forces. So we have to be very clear

784
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 2: about what is going on and what we're fighting. But

785
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 2: I do agree with you and that that the constant

786
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 2: what they called one hundred days of under and attacking

787
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 2: of people is not going to serve to discourage people.

788
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 2: It's actually going to serve to embolden people. And one

789
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: of the things Howard Thurmann said that we need to

790
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 2: hear right now, he said, study very clearly the tools

791
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 2: and the energy and the effort and the strategies that

792
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 2: your adversary has to use or they think they have

793
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 2: to use to defeat you, and therein you'll find your strength.

794
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 2: In other words, if you have to do all of this,

795
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 2: you got to chieat in elections, you have to shut

796
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 2: down justice departments, you have to try to take over

797
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 2: the now. If you think about all the things they're

798
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:58,320
Speaker 2: attempting to do, that also says how strong the forces

799
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,720
Speaker 2: of justice if we come together, if we mold together.

800
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 2: You know right now in this country. The interesting than

801
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 2: Steve is that the very people that will be hurt

802
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 2: the most by say, the economic policies of extremism, which

803
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 2: are poor and lowell, is actually the same group where

804
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: you have the greatest possibility to expand the electric that

805
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: could fundamentally shift outcomes of election.

806
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: Bishop, we got we're coming up on the hour, and

807
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 1: I do want to before I let you go. I

808
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: cannot let you go before you tell three thousand, three

809
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: hundred people with us, and many more who will watch

810
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 1: later the story that I have shared a couple times now,

811
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: but I heard it from you, and it's the story

812
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 1: of Frederick Douglas and Harriet Tubman in the aftermath of

813
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas's depression, in the math the dread Scott decision,

814
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: and when Harriet Tubman sees the depression in her friend

815
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: and she says, Frederick is God dead. I would love

816
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: for you to share that. Before I do turn it

817
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: over to Bishop Barbara, I want to thank Jonathan, Minister Jonathan,

818
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: I want to thank Bishop Barber, and I want to

819
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: thank all of you for joining us. One of the

820
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: things I want to say about Bishop Barber and Jonathan,

821
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: they're also brilliant political strategists who are deeply in touch

822
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: with the people in the country. And when we next

823
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: get together, we're going to talk about the strategy of

824
00:58:52,920 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: building a black white coalition in all fifty these states

825
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: of Americans of good faith, people of deep faith, people

826
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: of no faith at all, in a great moral moment,

827
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: into a force that is going to make this country better.

828
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: And so when you think about why things happen and

829
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: the links of events that none of us can see

830
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 1: clearly because they haven't happened yet, and where we have

831
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: to wrestle with our doubt and our faith and confront

832
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: our fear, we have to appreciate that we're not alone,

833
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: and that the greatest people that we revere through history

834
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: walked in that doubt and walked in that fear, and

835
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: walked in in those moments, just like we are in

836
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: their own time and in their own way. And so

837
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: if I could get you to tell that story, Bishop Barber,

838
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 1: I know it will inspire many thousands of people tonight

839
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: like it did me. And then we'll have you all

840
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: back soon, and we're working on some things together that

841
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: we'll share with all of you soon. But understand, the

842
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: aggressor always has the advantage of the first mover in

843
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: any type of fight. The moral side of the fight

844
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 1: is always the peaceful side of the fight, and so

845
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: that side always has to react off of its backfoot

846
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: to aggression. But now that the fight is joined, and

847
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: you take full stock everybody the destruction of Elon Musk's

848
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: companies that have resulted from his aggressions, the cowtow that

849
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has made this night in defeat to the

850
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 1: Chinese with his trade war. It is not the case

851
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump is winning. No clear Eide analysis would

852
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 1: support that conclusion. The clear Eyd analysis supports the conclusion

853
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: that suffering in damage and a morality that was all

854
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: necessary is coming, and we're gonna have to lift up

855
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people. But I feel that the overall

856
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: outcome of this fight has never been in doubt. The

857
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: consequences of it are in doubt. But if I could

858
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: turn it over to you, Bishop, and what an honor

859
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: it is to be with both of you tonight, two

860
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,919
Speaker 1: of the finest men this country has in it. Thank

861
01:01:58,960 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 1: you both.

862
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 2: Thank you, Steve, and thank you for your tremendous voice

863
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 2: and clarity. I'm going to do like you and steal

864
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: that last part from you about it. The outcome is

865
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 2: never in doubt, but the consequences, and we must work

866
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 2: to make sure that the consequences are less than they

867
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 2: would be if we don't stand up and challenge yeah,

868
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 2: or less because we stood up, because the consequences will

869
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 2: be deep. We're not just trying to get back to normally,

870
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 2: to just get back to what we were before this election,

871
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 2: because even going into this, eighty seven million people are

872
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 2: uninsured or uninsured. One hundred and forty million people were

873
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 2: poor and or lower age in this country. I won't

874
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 2: go through all the numbers, but they are numbers that

875
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 2: say to us we have work to do, not just

876
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 2: to stop what is happening, but to also to climb

877
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 2: hot to a higher and a deeper, higher place, and

878
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 2: to lift all humanity not just something. This is not

879
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 2: just about stopping a moment in history and then leaving

880
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 2: things that Traderick Douglas knew that born a slave escaped

881
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 2: from slavery, and in and around the eighteen fifties, a

882
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 2: decision was made to challenge the rights, the fundamental rights

883
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 2: of black people, just the right itself there was a

884
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 2: black person to even having the right under the law

885
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 2: for him to be respected, and there was a situation

886
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 2: as it related to where people sat in the cars

887
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 2: of trains. Dred Scott, a very bright skinned man, chose

888
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 2: to challenge what was happening and the separation that was

889
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 2: happening to a black people. And they went to court,

890
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 2: and the Supreme Court justice was an advocate of slavery,

891
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 2: and so were most of the Supreme Court justice at

892
01:03:55,800 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 2: that moment, and they decided basically that a black man

893
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 2: had no rights that the country or a white man

894
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 2: ever had to respect. When Frederick Douglas got wind of this,

895
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 2: along with the abolition movement, they were floored. This is

896
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 2: this is eleven years, twelve years before the Civil War,

897
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 2: I mean, excuse me, nine years. They were floored. They

898
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 2: basically said this, that's this Supreme Court has said, we

899
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 2: have no legs, no legsis stand on. And he went

900
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 2: into a funk, a crisis of existence, what would have

901
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 2: happened to all of his work? What would have happened,

902
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 2: What would happen to the abolitionist's work? And the story

903
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 2: is told that he's in Pennsylvania, I think Philadelphia, and

904
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 2: so journal Truth actually sees him sitting somewhere with his

905
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 2: head in his hand, this great orator, this lion, this man.

906
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: Who learned.

907
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 2: How to read, and was talked by some of the

908
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 2: best people up in New Bedford, up in the near

909
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 2: up in Massachusetts and New Boston, and she screamed the

910
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 2: story that says across that room, Frederick is God dead?

911
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 2: Just a question? But she knew that for Frederick, God

912
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 2: was the God of justice, of freedom, of transformation, of redemtion,

913
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 2: of resurrection. And the traderic was having a crisis of faith, morality,

914
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 2: and consciousness. He had to answer that question, and they

915
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 2: asked up to that question would determine what he would do.

916
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 2: And Frederick knew at that moment that what he believed

917
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: the divine source of the universe was eternal, could not die,

918
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 2: and that source was on the side of justice and

919
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 2: love and truth and freedom. And it is said that

920
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 2: he got up and contact the Diabolition Society, one of

921
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 2: them and said, I need to speak in two or

922
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 2: three weeks. Give me time, and he went and began

923
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 2: to write and prepare a disciplined, fierce response to the

924
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 2: Dredge God decision. The story concludes by saying that when

925
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 2: Frederick got up to do that teacher, it was about

926
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 2: an hour long, and interestingly, Steve he takes the first

927
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 2: thirty to forty minutes and talked about how bad things are.

928
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 2: He owns people's fear and people struggles, and then tore

929
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 2: the end. Predi Decta says, but as monstrous as this

930
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 2: decision is, and with all of the government seemingly against us,

931
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 2: the judicial, the legislative executive against us, I we can

932
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 2: receive this decision with a cheerful spirit because history is

933
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 2: studied with studied with proof that all the efforts to

934
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 2: alli the abolition and freedom movement in this country has

935
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 2: only served to embolden and intensify its agitation. Could it

936
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 2: be that the actions of this court is a necessary

937
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 2: link in the chain of events to lead to the

938
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 2: downfall of slavery itself? He reshaped, reshaped his narrative, and

939
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 2: and re committed himself to the work of abolitionists along

940
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:29,639
Speaker 2: with other black and white abolitionists throughout the country. Could

941
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 2: it be, Steve, could it be that this moment that

942
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 2: we're seeing all this gut check moment is a necessary

943
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 2: link because it's been there under the surface. But could

944
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 2: it be that it's now all brought to the surface.

945
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 2: So and it may be a necessary link in a

946
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 2: chain of events to wake everybody up. To wake everybody up,

947
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:57,719
Speaker 2: because this could be the moment that is the chain

948
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 2: of events to bring down this kind of extremism, set

949
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 2: people free from it, redeem people from it, and give

950
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 2: America a fresh opportunity to seek to be a more

951
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 2: perfect union and to have the third reconstruction that we

952
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 2: so badly needed for so long.

953
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: Bishop Barber, Minister Jonathan, and all of you. Thank you.

954
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 1: I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning. I invite you

955
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 1: to join this community where I promise to be honest,

956
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 1: blunt and direct about what is happening in this country.

957
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: America is in crisis. Follow and subscribe to this channel

958
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,640
Speaker 1: and on substack. Thank you.