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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Official Yellowstone Podcast. It's

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Speaker 1: Jefferson White here. I am joined as always by my

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Speaker 1: incomparable co host Jen Landon. Hey, Hey, we are so

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Speaker 1: glad to have you with us today. We are also

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Speaker 1: very very lucky to have with us Chairman Rainwater himself

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Speaker 1: Gil Birmingham. So grab a snack, buckle, your seatbelt, depending

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Speaker 1: on where you are, We'll be right back. So, Jen,

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Speaker 1: I would be remiss if I didn't mention you are

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Speaker 1: once again in a different state than the last time

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Speaker 1: we recorded. What state are you in now? What brought

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Speaker 1: you there? Where are you in your sort of incredible

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Speaker 1: nomadic tour across the American West.

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Speaker 2: I like that you framed it as my nomadic tour

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Speaker 2: across the American West. I have made my way to

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Speaker 2: the last West before we hit the sea. I am

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Speaker 2: in California.

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Speaker 1: I am far west as it gets, as far west.

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Speaker 2: As it gets. I'm still not home. I'm in Palm

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Speaker 2: Springs visiting my grandma, who is eighty three and just

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Speaker 2: a wonderful, wonderful fun lady. And I was in Vegas

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Speaker 2: just before this. I got to see nineteen twenty three,

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Speaker 2: which I don't know if we're allowed to talk about

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Speaker 2: it all, I won't say anything about it, but what

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Speaker 2: I will say is that it is phenomenal. I had

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Speaker 2: one of the experiences in the theater where I got

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Speaker 2: emotional just because something was so good and I loved it.

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Speaker 2: It shot beautifully. I saw Helen Mirren Harrison Ford from

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Speaker 2: about fifteen feet away, and then I sort of just

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Speaker 2: blacked out, not from alcohol, to be clear, And that's

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Speaker 2: where I'm at.

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Speaker 1: What about you, Jeff, I am so excited to see it.

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Speaker 1: So many of my favorite actors are in that cast.

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Speaker 1: So many of the brilliant minds that make Yellowstone look

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Speaker 1: the way it does are behind that Ben Richardson, who

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Speaker 1: was the DP for the first season of Yellowstone. It's

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Speaker 1: so many of the ingredients that have made Yellowstone and

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighty three so spectacular just being brought to bear

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Speaker 1: on I think one of the most interesting periods in

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Speaker 1: American history.

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Speaker 2: I felt the same way in terms of the period

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Speaker 2: being something that was so rich in and of itself,

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Speaker 2: and Ben really shot the hell out of it. A

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Speaker 2: big part of my emotional reaction was the way he

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Speaker 2: shot it. There are images I usually think of. I

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Speaker 2: usually consider something art if a week later, the images

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Speaker 2: are still floating through my mind, and images from that

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Speaker 2: are floating through like painting standalone pieces. He's incredible.

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Speaker 1: I feel the same way about some of his work

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Speaker 1: on season one of Yellowstone. I feel the same way

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Speaker 1: about a lot of his work in eighteen eighty three.

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to see that. And it's such

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Speaker 1: a cool thing. You know, Like every week on Yellowstone,

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Speaker 1: there's this idea that's been a part of the show

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Speaker 1: since the beginning of this history, this culture that we're

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Speaker 1: fighting to preserve. In this week's episode of Yellowstone, we

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Speaker 1: spend some time in this graveyard, this history, these ghosts

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Speaker 1: that haunt this family, and that John Dunton's life feels,

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Speaker 1: to a certain extent like an homage to what came before.

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Speaker 1: So it's such an amazing thing to jump back in

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Speaker 1: time and be immersed in that history and see what

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Speaker 1: it is they're fighting for. So I really cannot wait

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Speaker 1: for that show. Okay, yeah, digging it. So we're clearly

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Speaker 1: we're clearly excited to jump into it and talk about

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Speaker 1: this episode of Yellowstone. Speaking of the Dutton Ranch, a

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Speaker 1: recurring theme on the show Yellowstone, believe it or not.

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Speaker 1: This episode opens up deep deep into the Dutton Ranch,

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Speaker 1: up deep in the mountains, and it starts with JD,

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Speaker 1: Beth and Rip on a gather. So at the end

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Speaker 1: of the last episode, we witnessed everybody riding out, riding

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Speaker 1: out into the wilderness, into the furthest reaches of the

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Speaker 1: Dutton Ranch to gather up all of the cows, all

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Speaker 1: these these pairs they call them right so moms and

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Speaker 1: calves and bring them back to the ranch in order

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Speaker 1: to branch and right.

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Speaker 2: What we see throughout this entire sequence is that everybody,

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Speaker 2: everybody benefits from this adventure. Everybody needs it. I think

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Speaker 2: there's a line that Casey says where he's talking about

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Speaker 2: Tate to John and he says he needed this and

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Speaker 2: John says, we all do, Son, And that sort of

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Speaker 2: need and enthusiasm continues through with the Clara character, just

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Speaker 2: like riding up and since we can cuss on this podcast,

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Speaker 2: she's like, this is fucking awesome, and that smile never ends.

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Speaker 2: And John says something to be effective, like if you

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Speaker 2: could only bottle it up and sell it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's that amazing line where John says to Casey,

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Speaker 1: you could sell it, Son, you could bottle it up

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Speaker 1: and sell it. And Casey says, there's no one to

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Speaker 1: sell it to Dad. The only people who know what

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Speaker 1: it's worth are already doing it, which I think is

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Speaker 1: so funny.

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Speaker 2: Which is funny and also so true. And I feel

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Speaker 2: like you have had this experience as an actor. I've

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Speaker 2: had this experience as an actor, which is, horses were

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Speaker 2: not a part of my life. Ranching was not a

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Speaker 2: part of my life. And I have become one of

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Speaker 2: those people who sometimes will say the difference between a

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Speaker 2: good day and a great day is riding a horse.

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Speaker 2: And so it's something that you don't really know until

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Speaker 2: you experience it. And we've been lucky enough to be

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Speaker 2: forced into a situation and paid handsomely to experience it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we've had the incredible privilege of getting put on

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Speaker 1: the best horses in the world and being taught by

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Speaker 1: the best trainers in the world, such that we can

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Speaker 1: sort of brush up against the grandeur of this experience.

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Speaker 1: So what was this like? So you guys are there,

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Speaker 1: You're doing this massive gather. In practical terms, that basically

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Speaker 1: means forming a huge dragnet of cowboys and combing through

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Speaker 1: miles and miles and miles of trees and ravines and

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Speaker 1: rivers and lakes to gather all these cows. Will you

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Speaker 1: just talk about the experience of riding out and doing

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Speaker 1: that gather. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We shot this whole sequence from sort of the moving

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Speaker 2: down Mount Chisholm and pushing the cattle into the Dutton ranch.

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Speaker 2: I feel like over a course of three months and

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Speaker 2: many different shoot days and trying to tie it all

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Speaker 2: together in my brain as I looked over the episode

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Speaker 2: was fascinating. My favorite days are cowdays. You oftentimes never

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Speaker 2: see your crew. You're so far away and so immersed

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Speaker 2: in the pushing of the cattle you forget cameras are there,

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Speaker 2: except that when you see one really close. Often times

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Speaker 2: you'll sort of use your horse to shield said camera

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Speaker 2: from cattle that may or may not be moving too

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Speaker 2: quickly towards it and the innocent crew standing behind it.

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Speaker 2: The fact that we got to shoot this over so

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Speaker 2: many days meant that I got to hang with the

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Speaker 2: wonderful Buck Taylor, And because we got shut down due

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Speaker 2: to air quality for many days trying to grab this

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Speaker 2: sequence because the wildfires were so bad in the valley,

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Speaker 2: meant that I got even extra time with Buck Taylor,

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Speaker 2: and we know, based on what happens in this episode

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Speaker 2: extra time with Buck Taylor is precious time because it

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Speaker 2: is the last time. So Taylor, besides bringing in these

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Speaker 2: mamas and these babies, of course for this branding the

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Speaker 2: sort of newness of life, we also come to the

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Speaker 2: end of life with the passing of Emmett Walsh, which

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Speaker 2: I know is more plot oriented than process oriented, but

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Speaker 2: it's where we landed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that duality as always, Taylor really hitting us with

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Speaker 1: that duality, as you said, the joy, the sort of

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Speaker 1: joy and kind of spark and fire of like birth youth.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's so much sort of rebirth happening in

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Speaker 1: this sequence. It feels like a bit of a rebirth

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Speaker 1: for Clara as she participates in this. It's about a

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Speaker 1: rebirth for Casey who's been grieving the loss of his son.

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Speaker 1: It feels like there's so much rebirth happening. And then

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Speaker 1: on the other side of that, always with the duality,

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Speaker 1: the dialectics, the passing of Emmett Walsh, who is a

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Speaker 1: character that's been in Yellowstone from the very beginning. He's

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Speaker 1: sort of been peppered throughout the series. He's been a

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Speaker 1: part of the backbone of the series, a huge support

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Speaker 1: structure for John. It feels like a bit of a

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Speaker 1: north star for John as he's made political decisions, he's

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Speaker 1: turned to Emmett Walsh to sort of say, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: is this right? Are we doing the right thing? Am

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Speaker 1: I doing the right thing by my constituents, by the

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Speaker 1: ranchers around me? And so for him to lose that

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Speaker 1: north stars, really it's a development.

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Speaker 2: It's a huge moment. And I love that he has

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Speaker 2: that interaction with John before they fall asleep where they

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Speaker 2: talk about how it's a perfect day. And I found

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Speaker 2: that so moving because if we could only be so

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Speaker 2: lucky to have that perfect day on our way out.

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Speaker 2: And there's also this theme that Taylor hits on in

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Speaker 2: the sort of following sequence when he's coming back with

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Speaker 2: Landy Wilson's character Abby, who's waiting for Ryan. I always

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Speaker 2: get the names confused, because I feel like we all

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Speaker 2: have our names overlapped somehow in the show and some

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Speaker 2: people but Abby is waiting there, and there's this theme

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Speaker 2: obviously of a cowboy you'll never really have them. And

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Speaker 2: I was so moved by the fact that Emmett passed

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Speaker 2: away away from his wife, and that as sad as

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Speaker 2: that might be on one level, like how poetic and

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Speaker 2: beautiful that even in death they sort of belong to

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Speaker 2: the land. The cowboy belongs to the land and belongs

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Speaker 2: to the herd. And when John delivers that news of

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Speaker 2: his passing, though she collapses in grief, there isn't a

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Speaker 2: sense that any thing bad or wrong has happened. That

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Speaker 2: it's that it is so beautiful, and even her helping

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Speaker 2: out later in the episode, she doesn't want Emmett's passing

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Speaker 2: to overshadow anything about the beauty of this branding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this cycle of life, you know, the cycle continues,

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Speaker 1: and this sort of tradition continues. Yeah, which has been

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Speaker 1: a huge motif this season, right, Like, it's also these

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Speaker 1: rippin Beth stuff in this episode, I think is incredible

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Speaker 1: because it's these quiet moments between the two of them.

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Speaker 1: So much of this season feels like it's been dominated

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Speaker 1: by Beth getting ripped away from home, getting sort of

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Speaker 1: put on the camp, well not on the campaign trail,

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Speaker 1: but into this new sort of arena. She's kind of

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Speaker 1: fighting further and further away from home. Every episode. She's

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Speaker 1: getting in a private jet or a helicopter, and flying

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Speaker 1: off somewhere else. So it's also feels so precious that

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Speaker 1: Beth goes along, you know, against perhaps her usual instincts,

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Speaker 1: she decides to go along on this gather and it

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Speaker 1: means that the two of them have this time together

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Speaker 1: in the mountains.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we get to see Beth the Beth the cowboy.

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Speaker 2: I could say cowgirl, but I'll just say cowboy, you know.

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Speaker 2: And in some ways she's she was more cowboy to

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Speaker 2: me than anyone when she was like, give me whiskey

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Speaker 2: and cigarettes and the person I love and I'm good

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Speaker 2: and I loved. Like you said, she gets pulled further

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Speaker 2: away from home. I feel like she's always being forced

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Speaker 2: out into these situations where you know, she's having to

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Speaker 2: engage with big forces. But in many ways, Beth at

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Speaker 2: her core just wants that small, tiny, you know, patch

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Speaker 2: of peace to call her own with someone she loves.

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Speaker 2: And that the juxta, that dichotomy is what makes the

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Speaker 2: audience and me, it's part of what makes me love

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Speaker 2: her so much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, her philosophy we're getting, so we get so many

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Speaker 1: nice little snips of her philosophy this season, which God

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Speaker 1: bless her as it is with all of us is

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Speaker 1: sometimes a little contradictory, you know, is often sort of

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Speaker 1: whatever wins are the argument. It feels like sometimes her

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Speaker 1: philosophy is just whatever's gonna win her the argument. But

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Speaker 1: she has a great line in this episode that I

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Speaker 1: think you and I both flagged, which is she says,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're talking about how beautiful. You know, Rip

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Speaker 1: and JD are talking about how beautiful it is to

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Speaker 1: be out there in the mountains, and Beth says, this

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Speaker 1: isn't beautiful. It's too big to be beautiful. It's too

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Speaker 1: much space to comprehend. Give me a little meadow and

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Speaker 1: a creek. No one knows about that. I understand. I

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Speaker 1: have it to myself. You can see this from a

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Speaker 1: fucking airplane. I don't share the things I find beautiful,

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Speaker 1: which is such an interesting it's interesting beth philosophy. And

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Speaker 1: it also I can't help but wonder if that's a

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Speaker 1: bit of a tailor. It was just to it.

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Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, like, it's the most it's

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Speaker 2: such a sneak. It's such a reveal of tailor conscious

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Speaker 2: or not. I'm so glad you just said that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so funny, because you know, I think Taylor could

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Speaker 1: talk about this much more eloquently than we ever could.

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Speaker 1: But I think there's a little bit of tailor in

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Speaker 1: a lot of these characters. And I think there's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of tailor in Beth. And sometimes she says

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Speaker 1: something in him like I feel like that's just tailor talking.

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Speaker 1: Because as he's built this empire that we all know

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Speaker 1: are lucky to be a part of, as he kind

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Speaker 1: of builds this massive, huge thing, he also what he

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Speaker 1: loves is horses. He loves these simple moments. He loves

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Speaker 1: the little things. Some of the happiest times I've seen

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Speaker 1: him is not on set. It's when he's working at

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Speaker 1: his ranch, when he's just sort of participating in real

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Speaker 1: life on a cattle ranch.

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Speaker 2: You know, he feels so much to me like that.

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Speaker 2: And the guy loves to cook. He's an amazing cook.

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Speaker 2: The first night I ever stayed over on the ranch,

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Speaker 2: at like seven am, I had gotten in late the

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Speaker 2: night before. He's like, get up. I'm like, huh. He's like,

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Speaker 2: we gotta go move cattle. Let's go so and pushed cattle.

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Speaker 2: I feel like we've sat through a few good comedies together.

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Speaker 2: He's just a really uh He's certainly not a simple person,

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Speaker 2: but the things that soften his heart are simple.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little bit like if Jeff Bezos was

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Speaker 1: in the Amazon warehouse, like taping up boxes, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. It's a little bit of like Elon

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Speaker 1: Musk is down at the Tesla Factor, like screwing wheels

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Speaker 1: into a car. You know, Taylor, like he's really out

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Speaker 1: there living this life. Everything he's ever asked us to do,

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Speaker 1: he fucking loves doing. And if he could choose, I

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Speaker 1: know he would be you know, yes, wrestling a calf

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Speaker 1: on the ground trying to hold it down instead of

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Speaker 1: instead of writing.

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Speaker 2: There were days when he would be directing and producing

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Speaker 2: and also like writing other shows in his head, and

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Speaker 2: he'd like grab the hose to like water down the arena,

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Speaker 2: like because he just loves those things to the point

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Speaker 2: where I'm like, I think, like union wise, like someone

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Speaker 2: else has to do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, mister Bezos, do you mind I'll tape that

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Speaker 1: box up. You're gonna get a paper cut. Listen. Another

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Speaker 1: thing I can't help, but notice is you said that

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Speaker 1: while you guys were shooting this gathering sequence in the

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Speaker 1: branding with you guys were shut down by forest fires,

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Speaker 1: which has also been a sort of image that's recurred

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Speaker 1: in the show this season. In the narrative of the show,

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Speaker 1: will you talk about that a little bit?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the fires showed up in We ended up shooting

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Speaker 2: this whole sequence in bits, again, spread out over a

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Speaker 2: course of a few months. There were a few pieces

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Speaker 2: that just became impossible for us to grab because the

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Speaker 2: fire season in Montana starts usually in like in the

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Speaker 2: one hot month that Montana has, the air quality was,

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Speaker 2: I believe the worst in the country. It started in

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Speaker 2: northern Idaho and up through there, and a part of

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Speaker 2: why we can't shoot is for our health, but also

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Speaker 2: for the well being of the animals more than anything.

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Speaker 2: I do believe the horses shut us down before the

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Speaker 2: people do. But adjacent to smoke, I think, I think

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Speaker 2: it's a bit of a sidestep. But the actual flanking

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Speaker 2: and branding of these cattle, all of the actors that

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Speaker 2: you saw flank, all the does you see flank in

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Speaker 2: the episode are flanking in real life. The branding was happening.

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Speaker 2: My snot was gray brown for many many days.

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Speaker 1: And yes, so just for a little cowboy glossary moment

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Speaker 1: once again that the flanking is is grabbing a calf

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Speaker 1: and throwing you know, it gets dragged. A cowboy lassos

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Speaker 1: a calf's back legs drags it so sort of to

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Speaker 1: kind of make it spread eagle. Two cowboys grab them

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Speaker 1: and flip them on their back and pin their legs

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Speaker 1: down so a third cowboy can brand them. And I

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Speaker 1: think you're referring to the fact that when you brand

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Speaker 1: a cow cow that's functionally made of leather and fur,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of smoke.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of smoke that.

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Speaker 1: Just washes right over your face. So by the end

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Speaker 1: of the day of branding, Yeah, you're you're really it's

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Speaker 1: like you've been working in a coal mine all day.

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Speaker 1: But it's not. It's not coal dust, no, you know,

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Speaker 1: to say the least different.

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Speaker 2: A different kind of dust.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It anyway, shooting that entire sequence was amazing. That is

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Speaker 2: one that I'm sorry that you missed because it was

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Speaker 2: so beautiful and the locations that we got to go

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Speaker 2: to were majestic. And sometimes at the end of those days,

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Speaker 2: after you've got your last shot, but the sun is

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Speaker 2: still out and the horses need to get back to

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Speaker 2: where they go instead of just jumping off and handing

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Speaker 2: them to a wrangler and getting back in your van

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Speaker 2: and taking the twenty five minute van ride back or

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Speaker 2: thirty minute van ride back to civilization. Sometimes some of

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Speaker 2: us would just ride as the sun was going down,

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Speaker 2: after the cameras were done, and we'd just be sitting

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Speaker 2: and talking and it was like we didn't want to

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Speaker 2: let go. We didn't want to let go of the

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Speaker 2: world we had just been in.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's beautiful. It's what you said. It's the difference

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Speaker 1: between a good day and a great day.

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Speaker 2: Hm. Totally.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we're going to

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Speaker 1: dig into the rest of this episode because there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of other stuff going on.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So jumping back in here, I want to talk

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Speaker 2: a little bit about what happens with Potus coming to

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Speaker 2: the Reds and that whole sequence. There were a few

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Speaker 2: things that stuck out to me in particular, one of

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Speaker 2: them being the dogs, and I wanted to talk a

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Speaker 2: little bit about that and hear your thoughts, Jeff, and

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Speaker 2: bounce that back and forth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what an incredibly chilling image about two completely different

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Speaker 1: relationships to nature, right to nature and community. You know, So, Mo,

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Speaker 1: we love a good MO episode. This is a great

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Speaker 1: MO episode. Moe is sort of discovers these black SUVs,

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Speaker 1: these helicopters, this sort of operation going down, is trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out it's trying to get to the bottom

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Speaker 1: of whatever's going on here and ends up witnessing these

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Speaker 1: secrets service agents killing these dogs, which is such a

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Speaker 1: strange you know, you know, a stray dog, a quote

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Speaker 1: unquote stray dog that could be perceived as a threat

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Speaker 1: or just a sort of you know, it's something that

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Speaker 1: could be discarded so thoughtlessly by one person. Is somebody

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Speaker 1: else's pet, is somebody is like a beloved part of

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Speaker 1: somebody else's community. What an enduring image.

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Speaker 2: I felt like it was such a brilliant device for

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Speaker 2: that Taylor uses when he does that, because one of

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Speaker 2: the things that's irredeemable is the killing of a pet.

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Speaker 2: That's something that in movies. I can watch humans die

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Speaker 2: in movies. I'm like, yeah, whatever, but you kill a dog.

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Speaker 1: It's like that.

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Speaker 2: In Independence Day, the entire globe died, but then we

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Speaker 2: thought the Golden Retriever died in the tunnel and we

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Speaker 2: were like, fuck this, I'm out. So these dogs, though,

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Speaker 2: the things I mean for me my pets are I

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Speaker 2: don't have children. They are the things that are sort

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Speaker 2: of nearest and dearest to us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fascinating. It's this outsider's perspective on what safety

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Speaker 1: means here. It's this outside force coming in and telling Mo,

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Speaker 1: daring to tell MO what safety means or what security

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Speaker 1: means on the reservation. And it's like, oh, nice of

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Speaker 1: you to show up. You know, when was the last

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Speaker 1: time you checked in on our safety and security?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: Oh, here, we are living our lives every day, confronting

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Speaker 1: this difficult circumstance, and you're going to come in and

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Speaker 1: tell us what represents safety and security. This sort of

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Speaker 1: arrogance and tone deafness of that, I think is a

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Speaker 1: really clear image. And then you know, it's sitting up

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Speaker 1: as there's this kind of interesting political struggle going on

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Speaker 1: in John Dutton's world, this interesting political struggle fomenting between

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Speaker 1: John Dutton and Jamie and his political opponents. There's also

384
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Speaker 1: this interesting political struggle being set up on the red.

385
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Speaker 1: So there's this, for the first time, this sort of

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Speaker 1: threat from within. For five seasons, we've seen Rainwater navigate

387
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Speaker 1: threats from without, you know, outside forces coming to strip

388
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Speaker 1: away what belongs to his people. Now we're seeing this

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Speaker 1: interesting threat from within. So we're seeing angela blue thunder, yeah,

390
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Speaker 1: setting up kind of propping up a political opponent for Rainwater,

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Speaker 1: a young politician on the res named Martin kills Many.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a really interesting expression of the

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Speaker 1: fact that, hey, this is this community is not a monolith.

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Speaker 1: There is not only one idea of how this place

395
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Speaker 1: should operate, just like any other government, just like any

396
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Speaker 1: other place on Earth, there are many conflicting ideas about

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Speaker 1: how the Reds should operate and how it should be run,

398
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Speaker 1: and what their priority should be. And it's fascinating to

399
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Speaker 1: see that play out and to see Rainwater confronted with

400
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Speaker 1: that for the first time. You know, he's now got

401
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Speaker 1: an opponent from inside the house. You know.

402
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm anxious and deeply interested in how this dynamic

403
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Speaker 2: is going to play out.

404
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really excited to see that me too.

405
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Speaker 2: Speaking of interesting dynamics that we saw play out in

406
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Speaker 2: the shower, Uh, whoa, let's jump to our like Jamie

407
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: Sarah that that.

408
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Speaker 1: Weird little rom com here, right.

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Speaker 2: There's this amazing thing where she's that she's you know, saying,

410
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Speaker 2: I'm I have no ulterior motives, like I am into you,

411
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Speaker 2: and being into you made me want to like fight

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Speaker 2: for you. And what I love is that he basically

413
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Speaker 2: is like, no, our ulterior motives are not separate from

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Speaker 2: our foreplay. They are integral and crucial. He like goes

415
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Speaker 2: in and is like make me, make me powerful, and

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Speaker 2: then it's just game on. As messed up as it

417
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Speaker 2: might be, I really feel like it's sort of a

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Speaker 2: relationship model for acceptance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all on the table. At least at least

420
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Speaker 1: they're not deceiving each other. There's a big like Macbeth

421
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Speaker 1: Lady Macbeth thing going on. There will to power and

422
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: these two people sort of enabling each other and pushing

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Speaker 1: each other deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. It's

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Speaker 1: also it's such a demonstration of like, you know, nobody

425
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Speaker 1: has really approached Jamie with the carrot for like five seasons.

426
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Speaker 1: Everybody's just kind of chased Jamie around with the stick.

427
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Speaker 1: So I think it makes a lot of sense that

428
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Speaker 1: he's susceptible to a charm offensive and now he's really

429
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Speaker 1: in over his head. But it's maybe he wants to

430
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Speaker 1: be in over his head. It does seem like it

431
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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like he doesn't know what he's getting into.

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Speaker 1: It seems like he knows what he's getting into, and

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Speaker 1: he's forgive me going deeper and deeper into it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I feel like he is an There's only so

435
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 2: long If you are treated like the bad one for

436
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: so long, there at some point you must become the thing.

437
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 2: And there's actually like a line at the end of

438
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 2: that scene which was stage direction and not dialogue, but

439
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 2: I sort of loved it, which Taylor says, his meaning

440
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: Jamie's his passion gives way to something more frantic, and

441
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: I was I like, my mind went dot dot dot

442
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 2: Daddy issues question Mark, Like what like, what is this

443
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: more frantic?

444
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,959
Speaker 1: That is so funny. There's a lot of it. It's

445
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: also like it's sweet. There's all these sort of blossoming,

446
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: beautiful romances. There's all these kind of spring romances happening

447
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: on the show this year. There's Abby and Ryan, there's

448
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: an amazing new romance introduced this episode, a little love

449
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: interest for Carter, which is very exciting. So there's all

450
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: these kind of spring romances, and then it's interesting to

451
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: see this kind of mature machiavellian kind of you know

452
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: fall romance happening between Jamie and Sarah. Kind of on

453
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: the opposite end of the spectrum, there's these kind of sweet,

454
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: almost naive kind of young love sequences.

455
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: Nobody makes it pass first base in that love.

456
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: Whereas Jamie and Sarah, you get the sense that they

457
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: are running laps, you know, you get the sense that

458
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: they're just they're just running laps around the basis. It

459
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: really is wild. Every week when I when I think

460
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 1: it can't get any better, they do it again. They

461
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: blow the roof off again. I really I cannot wait

462
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: for next week's episode. We're gonna take a quick breather.

463
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: When we come back. We're gonna chat with a man

464
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: that I'm proud to call my friend. He plays Chairman

465
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: Thomas Rainwater, the incomparable Gil Birmingham, So stand by. We

466
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: feel so lucky to be joined today by an actor

467
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: that has been teaching us a lot for five years now.

468
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: We feel lucky enough to call him our friend. Thank

469
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: you so much for being here, Gil.

470
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 4: So a real pleasure. Thank you for having me.

471
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 2: Gil knows this. Jeff, I don't know if you know this,

472
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 2: but my family doesn't really talk to me about anybody

473
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: on the show. But I get weekly calls from my

474
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 2: mother and my younger brother about seeing Gil in one

475
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: of the eight hundred projects he's working on, and how

476
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: he's the best actor in the world and they're obsessed

477
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: with him and they want to sit down and have

478
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: dinner with him and be his friend.

479
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 4: Let's let's make that happen. I'd love to sit and

480
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:04,959
Speaker 4: dine with your family.

481
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 2: Gil. Was your first interaction with Taylor around Hell or

482
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 2: High Water? Was that your first crossing with him? It was, yeah,

483
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: And I feel like you guys have not just so

484
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: work partnership, but a friendship that sort of that transcends

485
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 2: the workplace as well. Did you guys have that friendship

486
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: from the get go?

487
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 4: Well, I think it developed. You know, it's funny because

488
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 4: my biggest my biggest advocate for Hell or High Water

489
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 4: was David McKenzie, the director, because we had a number

490
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 4: of of talented actors that were really campaigning for that role,

491
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 4: and Taylor wasn't familiar with me really to speak of,

492
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 4: and he was really simply the writer. He didn't direct either,

493
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 4: But David McKenzie really really pitched for me. And then

494
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 4: once Taylor saw the work and I think what was

495
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 4: his words? You know, I didn't know your work before,

496
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 4: but from now on, you'll never have to audition for me.

497
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 4: And when Murder came after that, and of course then

498
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 4: it was just being integrated into the family with Nicole

499
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 4: and Gus and being invited out to the rant, spending

500
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 4: Christmas with them time to time, and yeah, it's been

501
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 4: both a professional and a personal collaboration. You know, just

502
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 4: a lot of love, man.

503
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: I just because the people listening won't know this. One

504
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 2: of the things that Gil that I love about working

505
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: with you, and I feel like I've had scenes with

506
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 2: you and I haven't is because Gil loves coming to

507
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: set on days that he's not working and just hanging out,

508
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 2: and oftentimes you have been a presence on set that

509
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: may makes me feel like everything in the day is

510
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: going to go much better. And I love that I

511
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 2: get to hang out with you because otherwise I'd probably

512
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: I would have seen you at a bellator fight and

513
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: maybe run into you in a restaurant in Darby. But

514
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: because you're such a team player, I feel like I've

515
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: had all these interactions with you.

516
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 4: I you know, I love the way Jeff Bridges put

517
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 4: it one day, he said, you know, we do the work,

518
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 4: but the best part of any job is the hang,

519
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 4: you know, And on Hell or High Water, we would

520
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 4: look at the dailies at the end of the week

521
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 4: and then we'd party a little bit, play some music,

522
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 4: and you know, just to get to know each other personally.

523
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 4: But you know, that interview carries on to the set

524
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 4: and the dynamics of the characters. And I think that's

525
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 4: what I love about coming down the set because I

526
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 4: don't I don't want to interfere, you know, with people's work,

527
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 4: workspace and process. I know that their focus is on that.

528
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 4: I do want to be there to kind of absorb

529
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 4: it and support it and just be part of the family,

530
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 4: you know, And.

531
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: That's You're so right that I think it actually, rather

532
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: than distracting from the work, in many ways, it is

533
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: the work, because you know, in this show, your character,

534
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: for instance, your character and most character have a lifelong relationship,

535
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: and what supports that lifelong relationship is the work you

536
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: do on set. But it's also the time you spend

537
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: together offset. It's sort of building a familiarity and an

538
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: intimacy that transcends what we see on screen such that

539
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: when we see you on screen we feel a shared history.

540
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's the authenticity, you know, of

541
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 4: the dynamics of the characters that I feel most connected with,

542
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 4: and that's what we want to, you know, kind of

543
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 4: engage in in the craft as a whole. That it

544
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 4: makes it so much easier and believable. I think when

545
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 4: you have a personal connection, if that works, if you're

546
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 4: lucky enough to have that kind of relationship and opportunity,

547
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 4: and it really does transfer in a real way on

548
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 4: the screen.

549
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: I would say it does because I would put you

550
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: on the list of the five actors most likely to

551
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: make me cry while watching their performance. Do you feel

552
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: like you can get that authenticity into any part that

553
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 2: is written that you read or do you feel like

554
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: some parts And it's probably part of your decision making

555
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: where you go, this isn't there isn't something interesting or

556
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: three dimensional here and I'm going to set this one out.

557
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 4: Sometimes you just have to step into a scary place

558
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 4: and trust you know. I mean, it's your team. The

559
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 4: show that I did that your family was so complimentary about.

560
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 4: Under the banner of every there's a number of times

561
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 4: I had some questions and some doubts about always going

562
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 4: to make this believable and would this be a situation

563
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 4: that would happen between these these two characters. So that's

564
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,959
Speaker 4: that's a good director. You know that you can trust

565
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 4: and guide you and then your own internal mechanisms that

566
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 4: tell you whether it feels true or not, and just

567
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 4: jumping off the board sometimes and hope that it works.

568
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really it's interesting when you really kind of

569
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: take that same internal process, like your personal internal, rich

570
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: internal life, and you apply it to characters that are

571
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: in dramatically different circumstances. So even just in your work

572
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: with Taylor, right in Taylor's writing, You've played three characters

573
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: that I know of that all of which come from

574
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: very different socioeconomic backgrounds and have very different experiences. So

575
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: your character and when River versus you know, rain Water

576
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: on Yellowstone have completely different experiences, while you yourself have

577
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: the same sort of internal emotional oulu can me? So

578
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: will you just talk about your process specifically of working

579
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: on rain Water, how you approach that somebody whose real

580
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: life circumstances are quite different than your own.

581
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 4: Well, you know, uh, you know, I've had a lot

582
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 4: of a lot of interaction with you know, the chairman

583
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 4: of my own my own tribe. You know that the

584
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 4: commanche down there, and I've basically modeled rainwater after him,

585
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 4: you know, and I see the you know, the how

586
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 4: would I say, I know, the strength and the difficulty

587
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 4: of trying to manage through all the all the elements

588
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 4: that are involved in trying to be a leader and

589
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 4: serve the people. I think it got quite quite a

590
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 4: bit more expanded on Yellowstone because he's he's really feeling

591
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 4: responsible for for the whole tribe in a larger sense

592
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 4: as it relates to land. But that's really about creating,

593
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 4: you know, that space where they have their own sovereignty,

594
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 4: where they are not subjugated to any of the other devices,

595
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 4: as John Dutton is as well, you know, of outside

596
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 4: interest trying to corrupt it. But there's four of us,

597
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 4: I want to say almost you know, it's hard to

598
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 4: relate to spiritual in native worlds, you know, because it's

599
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 4: such a trope. But it really is the essence of

600
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 4: the with the ancestral the ancestral heritage and legacy that

601
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 4: we feel responsible to carry on because we're always standing

602
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 4: on the shoulders of all those ancestors before us, and

603
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 4: Rainwater really lives in a split world, you know, because

604
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 4: he wasn't raised on the reservation, so he wasn't exposed

605
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 4: the culture nearly as in depth to say most character.

606
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 4: But he's found a mission and a purpose to utilize

607
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 4: what it is that he was given to be able

608
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 4: to capture what the justice is and an necessity what

609
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 4: with the things that are necessary to be a provide

610
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 4: for its people.

611
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: And as you mentioned, it's this complicated relationship and it's

612
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: something that JD struggles with too, this relationship between the history,

613
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: the present, and the future and this kind of simultaneous

614
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: you know, obligation and simultaneous responsibility and duty to preserve

615
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: the history, to take care of the people that you're

616
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: serving right now, and also try to project into the

617
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: future and try to make decisions that are going to

618
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: ensure a sort of stable and secure future. It's an

619
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: incredibly complicated job. It's an incredibly I don't envy, you know,

620
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: being the head that wears the crown because it feels

621
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: like he's been hold in so many different directions by

622
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of people, most of whom are right, you know,

623
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: like almost everybody's right.

624
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 4: At the same time, well, he's pulled by a very

625
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 4: dysfunctional family, so he's got that going for him and

626
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 4: I and I you know, as I my sense is

627
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 4: rain Water is that it's an even bigger a bigger

628
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 4: world that he's trying to provide because it's not just

629
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 4: for an immediate family. It's for his people right now,

630
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 4: but it's very interrelated to the ancestry of all the

631
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 4: people that came before him. And then the philosophy and

632
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 4: the belief that we have to maintain and sustain this

633
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 4: for another seven generations. You know, that's that's the principle

634
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 4: of the native the native culture, that we we stewart

635
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 4: the land and we keep it the way it is,

636
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 4: so seven generations will we'll have We're borrowing the land

637
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 4: from our future, you know, from from our children. It's

638
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 4: not owning it from the past. But that process has

639
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 4: been going on ever since the beginning of colonization here

640
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 4: in this country.

641
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: That's so beautiful. I was not aware of that. The

642
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 2: preserving for seven generations down the line that the land

643
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: belongs to them. That's a pretty fantastic way to sort

644
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 2: of move through the world thinking that way.

645
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the conflicts that arises this

646
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 1: season over and over is that, you know, JD finds

647
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: himself at odds sometimes with Rainwater. Sometimes Rainwater and JD's

648
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: political goals lineup, and sometimes they don't, And we see

649
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: JD sort of like fighting a lot of battles about

650
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: with different people who have different ideas of what the

651
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: land should look like in seven generations. And Rainwater has

652
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: found himself in a sort of uneasy truce with JD

653
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: for a couple of seasons now, but it feels like

654
00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: this season we're really starting to test the limits of

655
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: that truce, you know, so they've been working in tandem,

656
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: but now especially as as Rainwater faces these threats from within,

657
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: as he faces this kind of insurgent political campaign from

658
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: within the reservation with Martin Kills, Minnie and Angela Blue

659
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: Thunder sort of mounting this campaign against him. Will you

660
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 1: talk about that, Will you talk a little bit about

661
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: this idea of simultaneously facing threats from without and from within.

662
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a really interesting twist. That's that Taylor

663
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 4: is incorporated it, but it also exists in the native world.

664
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 4: You know, on reservations, there's always power struggles within the

665
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 4: tribes and and that's you know, I guess we kind

666
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 4: of attribute that to the level of colonization and the

667
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 4: assimilation that the settlers have really kind of instigated from

668
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 4: the beginning. You know, if you can keep keep a

669
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 4: people in fighting, then they're easier to control, to manipulate.

670
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 4: And so it's a hard thing, you know, from the

671
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 4: time that you know, children were stolen from their parents,

672
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 4: put in residential schools and doctrinated, you know, and forced

673
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 4: to be able to uh assimilate within the white culture.

674
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 4: So it's so ingrained to the level that to get

675
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 4: back to the essence of the culture, man, you got

676
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 4: to you have to debrief all that, and it's it's

677
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 4: a lot of in the DNA conflict of what the

678
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 4: natural origin of the culture was and of the people

679
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 4: that have been here since millennia and then to encounter

680
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 4: another outside force that try to change them. I mean,

681
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 4: it's gone on obviously globally, you know, since the Europeans

682
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 4: have left, but our show deals with specifically the dynamics

683
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 4: in America and the indigenous people here. But yeah, I

684
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 4: know that, I don't know if you're from that with

685
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 4: Russell Means, he was talking about the years ago. He

686
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 4: was a member and founder of the American Indian Movement

687
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 4: back in the seventies, but it became a more militant

688
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 4: group in terms of fighting the forces that were trying

689
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 4: to subjugate us. Basically a peaceful people, but that extension

690
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 4: of control or the nature of human beings or government,

691
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 4: well eventually touched everyone, you know. And he had a

692
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 4: great line where and I think Taylor even name called

693
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 4: one of his episodes that you're the Indian now, so

694
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 4: I have a bit of irony there, and I think

695
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 4: that's what John Dutton's John Dutton's experiencing, you know, from

696
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 4: his point of view.

697
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is fascinating. And there's been so many times

698
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: throughout the series that it's echoed. Like there's been so

699
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: many moments where John Dutton says, somebody's trying to take

700
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: my land, and then Rainwater turns to him and says, hey,

701
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: wait a second, what do you mean your land? Since

702
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: when buddy, it's such a fact. Yeah, those echoes, and

703
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: it's such a speaking of those echoes. As you know,

704
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: the Yellowstone Universe expands, as we have had, you know,

705
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: the opportunity to see eighteen eighty three, nineteen twenty three

706
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: is coming out soon. It's an amazing thing to delve

707
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: back into and come into often painful confrontation with this history.

708
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that's the beauty of Taylor's you know,

709
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 4: spin offs, is that you know, you're getting a sense

710
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 4: of where all this originated from, you know, for generations

711
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 4: and of course for rainwater. You know, like I spoke

712
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 4: of before, this is really in our DNA. This is

713
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 4: you know, centuries, centuries, you know, so the depth of

714
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 4: that connection and how it's evolved and developed to the

715
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 4: place where we are in present day is a very

716
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 4: visceral experience. And boys, it's ever changing, you know. It's

717
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 4: it's the society itself has changed as you know, as

718
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 4: we're waiting to see now, you know, the polarization and

719
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 4: the politicalization and John becoming a politician, you know, and

720
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 4: that being injected into it. But it's it's extremely challenging.

721
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 4: Uh makes for good TV, you know. But at the

722
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 4: same time, we want we want to we want to

723
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 4: tell stories that kind of reflect back to us about

724
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 4: what how are we acting as human beings? You know,

725
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 4: this this is real, a real reflection of our society

726
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 4: and is this the kind of people we want to

727
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 4: be and isn't there a better way to do it?

728
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: Uh?

729
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 4: Specific for for the Debton and his ranch and the family,

730
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 4: but I think they're kind of two coins, or two

731
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 4: sides of the same same coin. For for Rainwater and John.

732
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, this responsibility to a history, to this responsibility to

733
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: a history to a culture. They both feel that, and

734
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,280
Speaker 1: then and then diving into that history and that culture

735
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: in these prequels. I can't help it, you know, like

736
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: it feels very vindicating for Rainwater for this other side

737
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: of the conversation. As JD's relationship to Rainwater sort of

738
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: grows and shifts and changes over time, I think it

739
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: becomes clearer and clearer that from the beginning of this thing,

740
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: Rainwater was right and JD is slowly coming around to

741
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: That's That's sort of how I'm interpreting it.

742
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 4: Well. The one thing that they have in common, I

743
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 4: think is the respect of the way they're connecting to

744
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 4: the land. I mean, that's where that's that's their connecting element,

745
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 4: because the land is what's is the essence of where

746
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 4: their identity is, their existence is, and the land is

747
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 4: is the nurture. The land is ultimately the life force

748
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 4: of all humanity and how we conduct ourselves into how

749
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 4: we sustain it is really going to do determine what

750
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 4: our lives are going to be. And I think the

751
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 4: sense of just kind of roughshot and over development, you know,

752
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 4: for corporations and everything, is just a death sentence. So

753
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 4: we're trying to rent that and try to save as

754
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 4: much of it as we can, maybe for our own

755
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 4: individual purposes or our own different philosophies, but it's about

756
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 4: the land and it's about the people.

757
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Gail, I can't thank you enough for joining us.

758
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: I'm such a huge fan. I'm so excited to see

759
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: what comes next for Rainwater, but also just for you.

760
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: I feel like anybody who's looking for something good to

761
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: watch just go look at Gill's IMDb and pick anything,

762
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: just because it really is spectacular filmography.

763
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: I think you can just search his name in a

764
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 2: Netflix box or a Paramount box.

765
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 4: Oh thank you guys so much. Man. I always a

766
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 4: joy to see your faces and to speak with you,

767
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 4: and just a ton and ton of love to you both.

768
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: As always, it's amazing to speak with Gil, it's amazing

769
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: to learn from Gil. Before we go, we want to

770
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 1: call out a really important podcast from our friends at

771
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 1: CBS News. Missing Justice investigates the missing and murdered Indigenous

772
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: person's crisis through the story of one woman who lost

773
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: her life on a reservation in Montana. Christy Wooden Thigh's

774
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: family rushed to her home on the Northern Cheyenne Reservation

775
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: when they got the shocking news that the thirty three

776
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: year old mother was dead. They arrived to find no

777
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: police officers, no approaching sirens, and no sign of Christy.

778
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: Missing Justice takes you inside what really happened that night

779
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: and the federal investigation that followed. Here's a first listen.

780
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: Be sure to check out the full series.

781
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 5: Christy Wooden Thigh died two years ago on the Northern

782
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 5: Cheyenne Reservation in lam Dear, Montana. When her family arrived

783
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 5: at the scene of her death in a neighborhood just

784
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 5: a few miles from the police station, they were shock

785
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 5: that officers hadn't secured the scene.

786
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 2: Where's the cops? First of all, why is it no

787
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 2: cops here?

788
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 6: Because it's a crime scene, you know, like there should

789
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 6: have been yellow tape.

790
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 5: The tragedy of Christie's death turned into a two year

791
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 5: ordeal for her family and most of all. It left

792
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 5: them in search of what they felt their sister deserved.

793
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: Justice.

794
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 3: No, I don't feel like justice was served. I feel

795
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 3: like we have to serve justice ourselves. It affected the

796
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 3: whole community.

797
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,919
Speaker 6: I'm Kara Cordy and I'm Bo Erickson, and we cover

798
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 6: the federal government for CBS News, and together we've been

799
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 6: investigating how federal authorities respond to emergencies, investigate crimes, and

800
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 6: prosecute suspects across Native American reservations. And that's how we

801
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 6: found out about Christie.

802
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 3: We kind of had confidence in the police, hoping they'd

803
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 3: arrest him, and then it was just silence, like nobody

804
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 3: came in and let us know anything.

805
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 5: Her family and community demanded and arrest for Christie's death.

806
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 5: That's Lenda got pissed off. That's Lenda's like raisen, how like,

807
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 5: why the hell is this guy not in Still a

808
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 5: dramatic trial revealed shocking mistakes made by investigators.

809
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 2: They just dropped the boss so much, over and over

810
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 2: and over.

811
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 5: Through all of this, the Northern China community was outraged,

812
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 5: but also not surprised because tensions with law enforcement had

813
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 5: long existed.

814
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 3: There's a lot of families around here that deserve a

815
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 3: lot better than what they've got from our law enforcement system.

816
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 3: People need to work more with the police force to

817
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 3: get things done, but they don't trust them.

818
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 5: But the issues in this community are not unique. They

819
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 5: consider Christy one of the stolen sisters of the Missing

820
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 5: and Murdered Indigenous People's Crisis. Follow along as CBS News

821
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 5: examines how well the federal government upholds its responsibility to

822
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 5: keep Native Americans safe.

823
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 2: These families need justice.

824
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 5: That's like this shouldn't be happening, and when it does,

825
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 5: it's really shocked because we've lost so many young women

826
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 5: in the short time. Listen to Missing Justice from CBS

827
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 5: News wherever you get your podcasts.

828
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: Wow, count me in. I'm excited and also a little

829
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: afraid to hear more. Don't forget to subscribe so you

830
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: never miss an episode of the only Official Yellowstone Podcast.

831
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: We have new episodes every Sunday following the show. Listen

832
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: to the Official Yellowstone Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever

833
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. The Official Yellowstone Podcast is a

834
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 1: production of one oh one Studios and Paramount. This episode

835
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: was produced by Scott Stone. Brandon Getchis is the head

836
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: of audio for one oh one Studios. Steve Rasis is

837
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: the executive vice president of the Paramount Global Podcast Group.

838
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Megan Marcus, Jeremy Westfall, Ainsley Rosito, Andrew Sarnow,

839
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: Jason Reid, and Keney Baxter from Paramount, and of course

840
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: David Glasser, David Huckin and Michelle Newman from One to

841
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: one Studios