WEBVTT - Is the Necronomicon real? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.600 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff You Should Know? 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:16.759 From House Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:21.599 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. We just ticked off every 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.480 HP Lovecraft fan there is with that. That was so cheesy. Um, 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.720 this is stuff you should know. I'm Josh Clark. There's 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:33.279 Charles W. Bryant, and who else is in here? I 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:35.240 was gonna wait a minute, Okay, I was going to 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:37.600 lead up to that, Well, there's no one else in here, no, 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:42.320 no one. Um. Today we are doing a special podcast 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:50.080 on Yeah, um and uh. For those of you who 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.519 don't know what the necronomicon is, it is arguably the 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.360 most famous fictional text ever created in the history of 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:02.200 American literature. It is an evil book, one might say, 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:07.360 created by are probably my favorite author, HP Lovecraft. Yeah. 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:09.000 I didn't realize this. You told me this, I didn't. 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.600 I love Lovecraft. My favorite UM stories are Dreams in 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:17.200 the Witch House, where he basically equates um physics to Witchcraft, 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:21.800 like witches have a really an advanced grasp on physics. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.640 It's awesome, it's so cool. Strange case of Charles Dexter 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.320 Award is probably the greatest one he's ever written. It's amazing. 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.280 Uh yeah, you gotta read that. And these are short stories. Well, 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.240 the next one's a novella at the Mountains of Madness. 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.000 Excellent story. And actually that one kind of factors into 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.760 what we're gonna be talking about today. Um, I don't 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.319 know if the Necronomicon makes an appearance, but what the 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:51.120 Necronomicon deals with is all over the place there. So Chuck, 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:57.120 let's despite my love of love Craft. Yes, it's painfully 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.320 obvious to both of us that we're mere full these 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.560 compared to some other people out there who are Lovecraft fans, 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.240 right the dogs. And we figured that we were going 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.280 to get nothing but angry emails for this one, and 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.400 they take it pretty seriously. I would imagine that they 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.320 don't want us to poop on their hero and their 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.240 icons now, and he's my hero too, but I just 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.400 I don't. I can do it justice, you know I can't. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.519 So instead we decided to bring in who will call 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.000 the shield, who can who can take all of the 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:29.120 angry emails, and that is our friend, colleague and fellow podcaster, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.880 Jonathan Strickland. Paramore. Yes, we have a special guest today. 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.000 Chuck wasn't lying. I was so, hey, strick how's it going? 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.520 Hey there, guys, um going pretty well. Thanks for having 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.760 me on. I I really enjoyed writing both Culhu and 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.560 the Necronomicon articles, so I'm there as very very cool. 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:48.880 You're you're kind of raised on these, weren't you. Doesn't 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:53.320 your dad write weird fiction? Yeah? Um, my father's names 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:55.280 Brad Strickland, So if you were to do a search 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.120 for that on Amazon, you would see that he's written 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.240 quite a few novels, several which fall into the horror 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.919 or weird fiction category. So yeah, I grew up around 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:08.080 the stuff. This was your life. It's pretty cool, and 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.920 you're you're dead, predicted Teddy Ruxman. That's true, but has 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.240 nothing to do with Lovecraft or Cathul or into the 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.200 necronomic right, No, it doesn't. My parents are t school teachers, 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.440 so not nearly excited it. As a mechanical engineer, I 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:22.920 didn't grow up with Cathulhu and strange beasts that would 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.160 drag him in saying just to look upon its face, right, yeah, yeahs, 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:28.800 which is something. It's a point that you make in 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:33.040 the in the articles you wrote, strict was that these 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.720 these creatures that the Necronomicon deals with, um, they'll drive 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.160 you crazy just by looking at them or by you know, 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:44.120 interacting with them. Usually terrible, terrible things happen. Right, And 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:48.800 at the center of the Necronomicon is cathulu cthulu or 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.560 there's a pronunciation um that Lovecraft wrote in a letter 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.160 to a fellow author. Right, and how how is that 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.760 one pronounced? You know, why are you hitting me with 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.120 that all all of a sudden. Okay, let's let's let's 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.880 be clear here. Lovecraft actually makes a point to say 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.760 that these otherworldly creatures have their own language which humans 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:12.840 are incapable of repeating. That makes it very mysterious and 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:14.840 creepy to me. Yeah, it's the same sort of nature 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.640 as as they. They have this appearance that we are 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:20.440 we cannot comprehend. If we were to look upon it 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.599 as you say, we would go crazy. So it actually 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.159 takes a lot of pressure off because you can name 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.479 things whatever you like. You can put as many consonants 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.560 and little apostrophes in there, and so you can call 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:33.320 it whatever you like. And when people say, how do 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.280 you pronounce it? You just respond you can't. But Coutulu 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:42.360 is one that I think most Lovecraft um scholars would 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.400 argue as the appropriate pronunciation. But the way I've always 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.320 said it, in the way that most of the fans 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.800 that I've talked to have always said it as Cathulu, 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:52.960 right was it wasn't there a rumor early on that 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:57.479 the clover filled movie was the monster was the Yeah, 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:01.080 that was very early on when that that preview first hit, 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.640 and there was not even a title for the movie yet. 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.120 In fact, there was no title internally for the movie. 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.440 People could only get little glimpses of what was going on, 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:11.680 and a lot of people said, Hey, maybe this is 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.280 the Cathulu movie we've all been waiting for. This is 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.600 actually the monster. I wonder I haven't made that yet. 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.560 I think, Well, there have been several movies that have 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:23.200 tried to tap into the Lovecraft universe, and only a 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.120 few have been really successful. I think part of the 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.760 problem is that how do you portray a monster that 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.800 is so horrible that you'd go crazy looking? That was 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:33.880 what I was thinking was, it's probably pretty intimidating for 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.080 a filmmaker to try and tackle this. Well, there there 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:40.599 are descriptions of Cthulhu. What's right? So he basically he 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:46.680 has wings. Um, he resembles just by looking at this. Yeah, 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.279 you think about this, do you think do you think 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:54.839 feminine when you hear this? Wings? Huge leathery wings, part octopus, 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:59.200 part dragon woman, part part man. Now I wouldn't say, 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.400 I just seem so with Lovecraft thing he would say 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.920 it is agenda that cannot be defined. Yeah, unnamable. Okay, 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:08.600 so we'll call him he. Okay, so we will call 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:13.159 Cthulu he Okay, So um, Cthulhu in the whole reason 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.400 we're talking about him is the he figures at the 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:22.760 center of the Cthulhu mythos that that Lovecraft created during 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:24.919 the course of his writing in Strickland. When was he 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.320 most prolific, It was it during the twenties. Yeah, we're 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:32.400 talking about just right around that era, late twenties. Um, 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.080 pretty much. What what's really interesting to me is that 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.880 Cthulhu became the central of this the center figure of 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:43.000 this mythos. But it's not the creature that Lovecraft wrote 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:47.320 about the most. Cathula really only factors into a couple 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.880 of stories, and in fact is described in some as 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.560 being a priest kind of figure for the Old Ones, 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.880 which is this race of creatures Lovecraft created. Yeah, but 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.640 he never said whether he was a priest that led 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.159 the worship of the Old Ones or whether he was 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.200 the priest to the Old Ones. That's that's correct. So 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.440 that's you know, I'm just gonna leave the rim. You 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:12.320 guys are nerd and out all. Well, the point I'm 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.480 trying to make here is that it's really the fans 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.400 of Lovecraft who kind of latched onto Cathulu and made 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.480 it the central figure of his mythology. Uh, if you 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.360 were to read all the stories, you would say why. 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.080 I mean, it is a very striking kind of image, 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.360 but why this over any other particular like why not? 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.480 A reason that I think it's mainly because when you 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.840 do read the descriptions, Uh, they are very compelling, and 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:41.880 I think that I think it's also probably one of 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.160 the ones that are that's easier to imagine than some 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.040 of the other A lot of the other ones end 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.720 up being shapeless. Well that's kind of hard to imagine 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:55.320 or mindless um being cosmic being who ruled at the 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:58.680 center of chaos, that's kind of difficult to um to 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.480 conceive of. I think so it's it's very hard to 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:06.440 make a plush toy of that, right. I think the 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.880 other reason that Cathulum has become such a prominent figure 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:13.520 in love crafty and lore is that he's still here 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.520 on Earth. He was, um, he was one of the 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:18.680 rulers of Earth along with the great old Ones, right, 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.880 that's correct. And then he had a city that was 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:27.320 called really a actually still is that sunk under the waters. 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:32.360 And what's interesting is that depending on which story you're reading, 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.760 you can kind of locate where really is. It's off 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:38.800 the coast of South America, and uh, there have been 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.760 some interesting, weird things that have gone on in in 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:47.320 that general area that people jokingly attribute to Cathulhu, uh, saying, hey, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.200 you know it's Cathulu snoring, right, Like I know you 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.079 put a little sidebar that was pretty interesting that they 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:59.920 detected with underwater microphones what a very loud, low rip 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.600 eating sound somewhere out in the middle of the ocean 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.160 out there, right, and that they said, oh, well, that's 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.720 just a whale song. But then marine biologists came in 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.360 and say, oh, that's not a whale, and that's unless 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.720 that's the biggest whale in the history of the universe. Right, 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.040 it was such a loud and prolonged sound that it 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:17.880 would be it would have to be made by a 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:23.400 creature larger than anything that we currently know of, right, So, hey, Cathula, 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:25.320 it's got to be him. It's interesting if you listen 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:29.200 to the sound unaltered, it's just this really low rumble 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.120 and it goes on for ages. But if you speed 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.720 it up really fast, it goes really which is why 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.560 they call it the bloop. There you have it, which 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.000 is also why a lot of people thought the clover 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.800 Field Monster was Cathulu because apparently on the on the 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.760 official website, there was a bloop, was there? Yeah, they 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:55.480 tied it into a a fictional um slushy maker Japanese company, 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.920 and so that had something to do with it as well. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.760 Once people started seeing the supplemental material, they started draw 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.280 their own conclusions, and of course they turned out to 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.479 be wrong. But it just shows how imaginative and passionate 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.400 the Lovecraft failure, and it shows how smart J. J. 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.559 Abrams is, the marketing genius, master marketer. So let's talk 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:22.559 a little bit more about the sure um. So the 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:26.280 text Strickland is often considered a book of spells. Most 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.160 of the people who get their hands on the Necronomicon 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:33.680 in lovecraft stories um end up using it to conjure 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.360 some of the Great Old Ones. Remember Cathulus, the priests 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:41.720 of the Great Old Ones. Um, and terrible, terrible things 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:46.120 happened this guy's open up. People tend to disappear in 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:50.880 in under terrible circumstances. And um the author. Let's talk 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.720 about the author of the Necronomicon. He himself, the mad 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.839 arab abdul al has read. That's correct, the mad arab 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:02.040 abdul l has read A fiend. Yes, the eighth century 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:06.280 Opium fiend from supposed to be supposedly a poet who 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:11.160 at some point gets this um. Well, I suppose he 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:16.840 gets some strange inspiration, possibly fueled by drugs, and writes 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:22.920 down this book called the Necronomicon, right, originally called al right, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.760 and that that refers to a sound made by night 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.480 insects in the desert or demons howling, depending on who 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.360 you ask. Right, that's correct. And so we have this 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.120 this text that's supposed to be very rambling and crazy, 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:41.160 and uh. Interesting thing is that Lovecraft never wrote the 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:45.560 full Necronomicon. He actually wanted to create it, and and 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.120 dabbled on a shorter versions at one point, right, right, 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:51.079 he wrote a couple of passages from an abridged version, 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.040 and there are there are a few passages that are 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:58.160 that are fairly famous in lovecraft lore. But he wanted 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:02.480 to create this mythology where scholars in his world would 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:04.959 have certain books they would refer to whenever they needed 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.920 to study these creatures. Okay, and some of those books 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.600 actually were real, right, that's correct. Some of the books 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:15.160 were in fact real books that have a historical background. 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.360 Most of them were just figments of his imagination. He 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.160 created the Lovecrafts, I should say, a Lovecraft's imagination, not 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.160 the mad Arab. No, not the mad Arab. So yeah, 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.920 it's interesting. You're talking about an author Lovecraft who creates 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:34.640 this fictional author, the mad Arab, who in turn creates 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.080 a fictional book called the Necronomicon, parts of which Lovecraft 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.319 actually wrote outright, So that is the that is the 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.640 spoiler for those of you who weren't familiar with this 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:49.880 at all. Necronomicon completely fictional, mad Arab, completely fictional. And actually, 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.240 what's cool about um Strickland in the in the article 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.520 you make the point that the uh, the Necronomicon has 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.960 not only survived lovecraft death, it's thrived. You can find 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:05.760 um versions of it on Amazon. Um there's actual cults, 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.719 whether they realized that the Necronomic con or except that 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:14.480 the Necronomicon is fictitious, they still um this this philosophy 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.760 of the necronomic and still figures very much into their outlook. 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:22.240 Then there's other maybe I got the impression slightly nutt 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.400 of your cults that actually don't believe the Necronomicon. It 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:31.440 is fictional, right, but it's it's pervaded into reality. Correct. Yeah, 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.440 all of that is right. The uh it's it is 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:38.679 fascinating because since Lovecraft left such huge gaps with the Necronomicon, 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.000 you know, he only wrote little bits and pieces, it's 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.720 allowed other people to swoop in and fill in those 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.880 gaps and make money and make money. Yeah, I'll never forget. 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.720 I was in a bookstore. Um, I was in uh, 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.320 I think it was South Carolina. I was in a bookstore. 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:55.560 This is when I was a teenager, and I'm looking 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.480 through the books. I'm just trying to find something to read, 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:00.480 and I come across a copy of the Neck Anomicon, 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.040 and I had to stop and look again because I thought, 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:07.800 wait a minute, what why would I find a fictional 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.760 book in a bookstore? And so I took it down 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.520 and started reading it, and it was filled with lots 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:19.600 of of tortured kind of prose. No, it was terrible. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.240 Did bite your hand when you try to grab it? 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:25.120 It did not? Reference will come back to that later. No, No, 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:26.720 it was. It was a terrible book. It was a 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.000 terrible attempt at trying to make a book sound really 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.400 dangerous and spooky. But it was transparent. I mean, it 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.880 was obvious that it was someone trying to be funny. 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.760 All Right, you guys, this reality parts boring. Let's go 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:44.200 back into the fictional world of Lovecraft in the Necronomicon. Okay, 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.440 where are we actually We're no, we're in no particular place. 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.360 We're just in this version of reality that Lovecraft created. 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.240 How about that? Oy? Alright, So within this world you 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.360 have various creatures, you have various books that all of 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.680 all of which are bad. I mean, that's just there 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.760 are people who think they can take advantage of them 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.160 and gain either power or knowledge or some combination thereof. 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:10.760 But it always turns out badly for them. In fact, 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.840 you kind of wonder why people keep bothering. Yeah, that's 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.320 really I mean, that's really what weird fiction is all about. 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.840 You're talking. When you use the word weird, you don't 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:23.160 just mean unusual, you mean incomprehensible to the human mind. Yeah. 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.560 I think Josh told me off Mike that. A lot 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.400 of other authors kind of have said that's a bit 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.840 of a cop out on lovecraft part because a lot 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:33.760 of times he doesn't have to end up being real 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.040 creative with his descriptions of things, and he can just say, well, 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.920 trust me, look upon it, and you shall go and 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:45.080 see or or unnamable. Yeah, and and I think it's brilliant. 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.240 But yeah, there's definitely an argument on either side. You 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.160 could argue that, well, the human imagination is so powerful 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.520 that if you leave it up to the individual reader, 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.240 it's that person is going to make his or her 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:59.520 own most horrifying creature. And there's nothing that you, as 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.800 the writer could describe because you don't know that person. 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.600 I don't know what would horrify that person exactly. But 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.880 by leaving it up to the to the reader's imagination, Uh, 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.520 suddenly you've made a much more effective monster, which is 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.360 kind of what they did with clover Field. Actually, they 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.640 did kind of tap into that because they didn't show 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:16.320 the monster very much at all, and I thought it 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:18.280 was effective. I like the movie. No, I I really 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.320 enjoyed that as well. I haven't seen it yet both 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.720 of you showed up. Oh sorry, spoiler alert, there's a monster. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:27.600 Another thing I thought was cool was that Lovecraft at 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.720 one point said that there are um only a uh 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:35.360 several official copies of the Necronomicon located in I think 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.320 you listed five different libraries, and uh, two of them 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:44.000 don't even exist. So he he dabbled. Yes, he dabbled 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.360 so much between reality and fiction that I think it worked. 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.440 It ended up being like, you don't know what's real 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:53.440 and what isn't. Dude, we're back in Lovecraft's world. Okay, sorry, 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:58.600 so strickling. The Necronomicon was written by al has red Right, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:03.360 and um he I believe he died fairly horribly. Either 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.720 he was swallowed up after conjuring somebody using the Necronomicon. 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.440 I think I remember another story where Lovecraft writes about 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.840 how he was beheaded but his head was still able 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.240 to speak. Um, there there's several different ways that he 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.680 supposedly died, but either way he died, but his book 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.920 survived and it stayed in Arabic, which actually I believe 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:29.600 none of the Arabic original copies in Arabic exist today. 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.280 But the UM in nine fifties, somebody else found it 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.760 and it was translated into Greek. Right, Yes, that's right. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:40.359 There are actually several different translations UM that are mentioned 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:44.480 in Lovecraft's stories. Uh, there's Greek, there's there's Hebrew, there's 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.560 a few others. There's Latin. I think he said Alias 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.880 Wormings was a priest that translated into Latin, and then 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.680 it was banned by Pope Gregory nine. But in reality, 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:56.960 this is what I love the fiction. Again, you're not Catholic? 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:01.480 Was that not Pope Gregory nine? The nine? Okay, yeah, 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:05.639 but Gregory the Night? Uh? In reality that Elias Warmius 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.200 was actually a Dutch physician, so there was no tide 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.920 there whatsoever. Yeah, that was the mixture of reality and fantasy. Um. Now, 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.280 the the really cool stuff, as far as I'm concerned 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:20.440 here is that that he's he's built up a believable 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.439 enough base that if you were to just read the 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.919 story without without any other background information, you could totally 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.040 buy into this mythology. He's really made it very rich 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:35.480 and believable. He's he's he's anchored it in reality and um. 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.840 And there are lovecraft Ian scholars and fans who will 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.720 talk of this as if it were all real, as 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.920 if these Greek and and other translations of the Necronomicon 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.879 do in fact exist and are in fact in these libraries. Right. Well, 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:50.720 I know what earlier we were talking and I thought 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.200 it was odd that he would use people like Elias 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.040 warmis their name, which you know was a physician, and 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:01.119 then in six Dr John D was an Englishman and 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.239 a magician, when in fact he was really just an 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.679 adviser to Queen Elizabeth. And I thought, well, how strange 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.040 to use these real people like wouldn't he be found out? 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.240 But you said that, you know, this is the nine twenties, 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.520 and there weren't You couldn't go up on the internet 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.360 and look up who John D was, right, And now 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.320 you had people who those names would sound familiar, and 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.040 they think, hey, that does lead leads some credence to 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.600 this and I and I also compared it to Bram Stoker, 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.359 who did base Dracula off of the real person Vlad Tepish. 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.199 But if you were to look into Vlad tepish Is life, 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.040 you would see that it doesn't really parallel Dracula at all. 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.120 You could just see where the inspiration came from. But 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.119 because you have laud Dre Cool, you have this whole 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:46.280 persona there, it lends your story a stronger base in reality. Yeah, 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.719 like you guys said, the Lovecraft is a master at 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:53.680 mixing reality and fiction, like with the libraries where you 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:57.479 could supposedly find the Necronomicon, but also he would pepper 0:19:57.880 --> 0:19:59.840 um some of the books like on the shelves ire 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.159 were in the strange case of Charles dexter Ward his 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:07.160 ancestor what was his ancestors name, I don't remember either, um, 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.879 but he there was there were tons of books of 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:12.760 magic and the occult, and some of them were real, 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.320 like the Rs Magna at Ultima uh, and they would 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:20.520 be sitting alongside the Necronomicon. So there were some that 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.280 were real and some that weren't. Um. And not only 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.280 did Lovecraft write about that, he would use books that 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:30.200 some of his contemporaries had made upright in his books, 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.160 and they would do just the same, right, they would 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.879 mention the Necronomicon in their books. Yeah, there was a 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.280 lot of cross pollination going on at this time, where 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:44.160 you would. Lovecraft loved having friends who were also authors. 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:48.879 He was prolific letter writer, and he encouraged his friends 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.679 to write stories set in his mythology, and then he 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:54.639 would write stories there's as well. So you started to 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:58.880 get this really rich background that didn't exist in other 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.680 authors works. Because I mean, in a way, it's almost 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.520 like writing fan fiction, except in this case, the people 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.560 who are writing fan fiction are really well known authors, right, right, 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.720 But that continues today. You still have people writing within 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.439 Lovecraft's mythology, and of course, you know, it's expanded beyond 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:20.240 just writing books. It's also in movies and television. Right. 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:25.640 There's some pretty pretty noteworthy cameos that the Necronomicon has made, 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.840 most notably in the Evil Dead series. Yes that was 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.480 it an Evil Dead or just Evil Dead too, No, 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:34.760 it's in It's an Evil Dead, Evil Dead to an 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:38.240 Army of Darkness. Army of Darkness actually was my favorite 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.800 scene with the Necronomicon because he has to approach it 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.960 on the hill and repeat the Klatu varata and then 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.119 which the last word isn't that from the day the 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:50.639 Earth still? Yeah, that's actually that was the one of 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.080 the things about Yes, Sam Raimi just loves to quote 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.919 from other movies and and and science fiction, horror everything. 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.080 I mean, he's he's one of those guys who just 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:04.320 has like that huge Labrintheian Library of of Trivia instead 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:05.920 and so yeah, he brought a lot of that out 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.480 into those movies. But the interesting thing about the Necronomicon 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:11.760 and those and those movies is that it doesn't really 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:15.080 resemble the one in Lovecraft stories. Right. It's the Book 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.119 of the Dead is what they call it, and evil 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.119 dead and it's a or at least an army of darkness. 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:22.560 It was like this, uh had an evil face. It 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:24.639 was like leather bound, but had a mouth and eyes, 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:26.720 and that's why it bit him when he tried to 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.920 pick it up, which is what I was referencing right right. 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.760 It's actually bound in flesh and written in blood. Yeah, yeah, 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.480 and it's uh, it's a little different from the Necronomicon 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.400 and Lovecraft stories. But the Necronomicon, you gotta admit, that's 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:41.600 an awesome name for an evil book. So it totally 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.600 made sense to to reference it, you know, and a 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.040 lot of people I think have sort of a passing 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:53.000 familiarity with Lovecraft stories stuff, so if you mentioned it, 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.119 they get the idea, oh, that's an evil book. They 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.000