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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff? Mom? Never told you?

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Speaker 1: From how Stuff Works dot Com? Hello Molly, Hello Kristen.

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Speaker 1: Well I've got I've got a question for you. Well,

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Speaker 1: I do you think that we work and you and

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Speaker 1: I we work in a male dominated industry? What do

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Speaker 1: you define our industry? Asked? While we work for a website? Um,

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Speaker 1: so I'm thinking more like tech web internet interesting because

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Speaker 1: I would think more that I worked in communications, journalism,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. And what I think is sort of interesting

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Speaker 1: about how stuff works is Yes, I would agree with

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Speaker 1: you that web tech seems a little more male dominant,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like communications is a little more female dominated. True.

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Speaker 1: So I think we're at like a crossroads. Yeah, well

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Speaker 1: would you be would you be nervous about working in

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Speaker 1: a male dominant industry? You know, I've never really had

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Speaker 1: that experience, have you? No? I mean my last job,

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Speaker 1: there were only four guys on the staff. It was

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Speaker 1: a staff of sixty four guys. Four guys. That's it. Yea,

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Speaker 1: So it was it was a breeze. Huh, No, it

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Speaker 1: was not. Why was it? Was it a catty off

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Speaker 1: it was kind of well, I don't know now, I'm

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Speaker 1: scared someone's going to hear it from my last office.

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Speaker 1: But I mean I would say that there were times when, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that it was fairly catty. And I think that when

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Speaker 1: women compete against each other in some ways it almost

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Speaker 1: felt more personal than like business. Yeah, I could see

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Speaker 1: how office politics and uh in an all female office

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Speaker 1: could get you know, a little a little testy, a

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Speaker 1: little testy, but also sometimes you kind of be resentful

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Speaker 1: that when you were actually you know, trying to do

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Speaker 1: something to get ahead and it you know, didn't go

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Speaker 1: well and people were moody and upset, that people would

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Speaker 1: just say, oh, this whole office is having their period

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Speaker 1: at the same time, yeah, which I find that insulting exactly.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was just like, no, how how could

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Speaker 1: all of us be having our period at the same time?

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Speaker 1: The kind of gross. But thankfully we are not working

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Speaker 1: in all female office. We uh, you know, we I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say that we're in necessarily a male dominated office

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Speaker 1: or anything like that, but we, you know, we have

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Speaker 1: male bosses, and um, there's definitely a lot of I

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Speaker 1: think office politics that you have to play, whether you

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Speaker 1: live and work in a male dominated or female dominated office. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean everyone needs to play office politics at some point.

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Speaker 1: I think the bad thing is, though, is that just

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Speaker 1: the term office politics is such a turn off. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I never think of myself as some

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Speaker 1: kind of office politician. Well, Kristen, you're an office politician,

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Speaker 1: whether you want to be one or not. Basically because

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Speaker 1: everyone is involved in office politics. I mean it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a dirty term, but it's simply refers to like

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Speaker 1: the dynamics of power that are going on in any office.

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Speaker 1: Right And even though we think that what we can

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Speaker 1: do is just stay in our cubicle and do the

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Speaker 1: job the best we can do, office politics affects you.

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Speaker 1: Office politics definitely affects you, um, and it affects you

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Speaker 1: more than you would actually think. Experts have found that

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Speaker 1: office politics is the number one indicator of how far

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Speaker 1: you'll succeed in your job, more so than brains or

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Speaker 1: your personality. And when I read that, I was kind

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Speaker 1: of astounded because it was a female. I was definitely

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Speaker 1: at this time, you know, in you know, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight, as a female where I am now, I

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Speaker 1: was definitely raised to think that as a woman, my

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Speaker 1: brains could take me, you know, as far as I needed.

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Speaker 1: But really it's it's politics. It's still politics, um and

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Speaker 1: so you still have to kind of go out and

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Speaker 1: kind of market yourself and kind of get around everyone

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Speaker 1: and be like, you know, here's what I'm doing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So when you first get a job, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: when your first day politics starts, and the first thing

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Speaker 1: that you want to do is sort of get the

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Speaker 1: lay of the land. You want to listen before you speak. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you get the lay of the land. Because office politics

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Speaker 1: just starts with getting a lot with your coworkers. It

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Speaker 1: sounds really simple, but that's the heart of it. That

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Speaker 1: is the heart of it. And um. As females though,

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Speaker 1: when when you are building those first relationships, I think

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Speaker 1: that it's very easy, especially if you're getting to know

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Speaker 1: other female coworkers, to dive into gossip exactly because you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean it sounds really clich you know, oh women

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Speaker 1: like to gossip, but let's face it, Molly, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you're getting to know another girl, the easiest way,

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Speaker 1: whether it's celebrity gossip or people you know, whoever, the

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Speaker 1: easiest way to you know, to forge that new relationship

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Speaker 1: is to you know, just dish, dish the dirt, dish

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Speaker 1: the dirt. And I think it starts off. Um. I

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Speaker 1: think we don't even realize we're sliding into that slippery

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Speaker 1: slope because it might just start, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: bathroom after meeting going like, gosh, it was awkward when

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Speaker 1: that guy went off on that tangent. Yeah, or maybe

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Speaker 1: like you think it's something funny to say about somebody,

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Speaker 1: But really, once you start getting into office gossip, you

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Speaker 1: are sailing at politics. You're failing, and you probably unknowingly

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Speaker 1: have it's sort of a click or a faction within

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Speaker 1: the office, and then you kind of become known by it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you really you want to stay away from getting

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Speaker 1: pigeoned holed into one group of people. Obviously you're going

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Speaker 1: to have some people who are going to get along

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Speaker 1: better with than others, but at the same time, you

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Speaker 1: need to in order to be a successful politician, you

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Speaker 1: need to try to diversify your friends as much as

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Speaker 1: possible so that if you get stuck in a hard place,

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Speaker 1: you have multiple resources that you can go to for help. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's the exact opposite of a reality show. Not

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Speaker 1: just want alliance. No alliances is this This is not survivor,

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Speaker 1: although you are looking out just for yourself. But so

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Speaker 1: that's where I think office politics get so dirty for people,

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Speaker 1: as you have to both get along with people and

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Speaker 1: yet compete with them. Well, one thing that might make

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Speaker 1: it easier is kind of having a guide. Um uh.

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Speaker 1: People recommend finding a mentor or some type of role model.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't have to be a female male or female, but

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Speaker 1: just someone who's been in your office long enough to

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Speaker 1: really know how things work, makes the decisions things that

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Speaker 1: you might not be able to initially pick up on,

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Speaker 1: you know, just having some casual you know, lunches or

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Speaker 1: break room encounters with people. Yeah, I think they can

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Speaker 1: guide you the power infrastructure. But it's also someone just

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Speaker 1: to go to when you do run into that caddy

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Speaker 1: coworker who insists on always kind of putting you down.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's gonna happen at some point, so it's

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Speaker 1: probably good to have someone in your corner who's going

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Speaker 1: to have an ear to the ground and be able

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Speaker 1: to help you in that situation comes up. And you

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Speaker 1: also need to learn to self advocate. Um you know,

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Speaker 1: as you work someplace for a while, hopefully you're you're

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Speaker 1: doing some good things, getting some good accomplishments, and um,

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Speaker 1: when the time comes, you know, maybe you're taking an

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Speaker 1: elevator ride with a boss. You know, figure out a

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Speaker 1: way to sort of self promote, you know, talk about

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Speaker 1: the awesome things that you've been doing. Like Molly, maybe

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Speaker 1: you just wrote a stellar article that got like two

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Speaker 1: million hits or something, you know, or maybe you know,

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Speaker 1: we can talk about, oh, we just had a great

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Speaker 1: day podcast. We just had a wonderful podcast. Yes, give

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Speaker 1: me a race. It wouldn't be that easy. Um, I wish,

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Speaker 1: I wish, but but yeah, I think that it just

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Speaker 1: all goes into diversifying, diversitying your friends. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I think we can admit, Kristin that we have it easy.

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Speaker 1: Like we like we said, we don't really work in

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Speaker 1: a male dominated office. Um. You know, we sit beside

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Speaker 1: each other in our cubicles, we work together, podcast together.

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Speaker 1: But it's not like we've ever been in competition with

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Speaker 1: a ton of other males, their males. Right. But you know,

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Speaker 1: if that were the case, there are definitely some ways that, um,

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Speaker 1: that women can hold their own in a male dominated office. Um,

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Speaker 1: And we got a little help from Wall Street Journal

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Speaker 1: that just published an article, um offering some tips for women,

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Speaker 1: especially in you know, like jobs like engineering, computer science,

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Speaker 1: things like that, when you might be one of just

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Speaker 1: a handful of females. So, with our very limited experience

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Speaker 1: being in a male dominated workplace, we're going to try

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Speaker 1: and see if we can decipher the value of these tips. Yeah. One, uh, Molly.

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Speaker 1: The one that I found I think the most interesting

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Speaker 1: was differentiating between alpha and beta males. You know, you

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Speaker 1: think about like the wolf pack. You get the alpha

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Speaker 1: wolf who is the leader of the pack and sort

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Speaker 1: of gives the orders. Um, it's you know, it's snow brainer.

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Speaker 1: It's the same thing in the office. Your alpha males

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Speaker 1: are going to be your get it done. The go

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Speaker 1: getters always have like a new idea on the horizon,

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Speaker 1: and when you're talking to them, you want to use

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Speaker 1: very goal oriented, succinct, powerful language, um, you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of like put yourself a little more on their level.

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Speaker 1: But when you're talking to beta mails, who are going

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Speaker 1: to be more interested in collaborating in partnership, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: want to use a little more of that like open

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Speaker 1: networking type of um, you know, conversation right. You don't

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Speaker 1: hear about beta males quite as much, but it sounds

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Speaker 1: like they'd be great partners for when you do have

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Speaker 1: sort of a group project you can bring people in on.

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Speaker 1: They'll help you kind of shine, I think. Yeah, or

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Speaker 1: if you just need you know, if you're you're stuck

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Speaker 1: on a topic, you know, it's somebody you can go

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Speaker 1: to to kind of kind of help you out a

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Speaker 1: little a bit. But when you're dealing with any mail

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Speaker 1: alpha or beta, there are some things you can do

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Speaker 1: to kind of adjust your language. And I think this

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Speaker 1: these whole true whether you're in a male domino world

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Speaker 1: or not. But I know that we always sort of

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Speaker 1: start sentences with I think, well, I think or maybe

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Speaker 1: we could try yeah, very kind of Oh, I'm not

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Speaker 1: so sure. Get rid of it. You need to use

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Speaker 1: declarative sentences, you know, walk up to John the alpha male,

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Speaker 1: and say, John, this new podcast of Mine and Molly

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Speaker 1: is is fantastic and I think you should listen to it. Right,

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Speaker 1: be confident, be assertive. Yeah, And it sounds like something

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Speaker 1: that's really easy and obvious, but women still just don't

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Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, I say, I use the phrase I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry all the time. And I mean, he's sorry. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why I say it, but yeah, women, I

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Speaker 1: think they just use it sort of like is a

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Speaker 1: verbal crush, Like oh, I'm so sorry. I know, I

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Speaker 1: know you're busy right now, but I just had this thing. No,

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Speaker 1: they need to make time for you. Make time for

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Speaker 1: it and be like, hey, do it, do it um.

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Speaker 1: And also the work is done, and you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: it's time for a happy hour socialize with the boys, right,

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Speaker 1: just invite yourself along if you have to. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it might seem kind of awkward, but it will benefit

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Speaker 1: you because when Molly and I were talking about that,

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Speaker 1: you know, stereotypical caddy female office gossip. The fact of

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Speaker 1: the matter is men gossip too. I know for a

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Speaker 1: fact that men gossip. Yeah, And you just think about

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Speaker 1: like how many deals are probably made at the sports

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Speaker 1: bar and not in the office, Like you need to

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Speaker 1: be there for that, and you need to be able

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Speaker 1: to kind of see the dynamics between the different men,

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Speaker 1: going back to the that alpha beta um male differentiation

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Speaker 1: UM just kind of help you get the lay of

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Speaker 1: the land. And also the next day at work when

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Speaker 1: you've after you've been out had some beers, enjoyed some laughs.

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Speaker 1: I think it kind of, you know, kind of makes

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Speaker 1: you one of them, a little bit more getting getting

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Speaker 1: with the thing. And this is you know, earlier we're

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Speaker 1: talking about getting the lay of the land, listening to

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Speaker 1: gossip and not participating in it. But that's how I

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Speaker 1: can find out where the boys are going. Basically, I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not suggesting anyone should get in there. Aren't follows,

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Speaker 1: don't be a stalker, but you know, you hear things,

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Speaker 1: you should follow up on them. Yeah, but the next day,

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Speaker 1: all right, so let's say Wednesday you go out to

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Speaker 1: Wednesday Happy Hour Thursday morning. What you should not do?

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Speaker 1: Molly his prank avion donuts for the guys. Yeah, wouldn't

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Speaker 1: that be fun? No mother hens stay at home. You

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Speaker 1: want to avoid all stereotypical female subservient roles, specifically subservient.

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Speaker 1: But I guess the only thing that bothers me about

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Speaker 1: this male dominant workplace is that you can't actually be

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Speaker 1: sort of female within it. What I'm saying, because you know, yes,

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't be the mother, hen, but let's say you

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Speaker 1: know you still want to be a female, don't you. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that you can be you can be a

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Speaker 1: female without you know, cleaning up after after board meetings

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Speaker 1: or having to always be the donut the donut. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But basically what we want to avoid, I guess, is

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Speaker 1: a stereotype that all female ceo is are you know,

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Speaker 1: cold and hard and words that rhyme with witches, yes,

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Speaker 1: being witches. As Molly said, Um, it's kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: pitfall once you do hit that career ladder. Because there

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Speaker 1: have been multiple studies that I've run across just you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of researching on this topic that have found that, um,

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Speaker 1: once women do assume leadership roles, they're perceived more negatively

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Speaker 1: than men, and it's a reaction to that violation of

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Speaker 1: those you know, stereotypical female roles. So I think that

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Speaker 1: it's definitely a tight line that we have to walk

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Speaker 1: right now. But I think it also has to do

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Speaker 1: with the fact that, um, we are socially in a

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Speaker 1: shift right now. You know, fortune companies look at the CEOs,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be older, white males. But I think

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Speaker 1: that the tide is shifting, you know, to maybe a

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Speaker 1: few more females in those higher positions. And I think

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Speaker 1: until we get to that point where it is a

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Speaker 1: little more equal across the board. I think that we

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Speaker 1: do have to sort of abandon, um know, that stereotypical

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Speaker 1: female that might want to eke out every every now

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Speaker 1: and then. Yeah, but I think that this is you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe where we can come back and circle around. Is

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Speaker 1: you know, this is where you can use your brains

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Speaker 1: to get ahead. And yes, we're gonna have to work

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Speaker 1: harder and be smarter in terms of how we're gonna

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Speaker 1: gelong with the boys. Um, but that's you know, no

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Speaker 1: less achievement than working hard and just doing good work. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you got just work hard, play hard. I

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Speaker 1: guess work hard, play hard, and definitely keep in mind

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Speaker 1: the networking. I think it's just so easy to get

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Speaker 1: to get stuck into a work click and and not

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Speaker 1: even realize it until you get, you know, in a

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Speaker 1: rough spot and you have nowhere to term. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: stay on your toes, stay on your toes, build alliances. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and don't forget it, and don't forget its politics. It

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Speaker 1: is politics, you know, with smart politics. Don't think about

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Speaker 1: it is dirty politics. Just think about it as smart politics. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: if you need more tips on how to play office politics,

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Speaker 1: male or female, We have an article called how office

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Speaker 1: politics Works at how stuff works dot com. Moral, this,

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Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Visit how staff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready, are you