WEBVTT - From the Vault: Dune Biology 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:07.520 Hey, you welcome to Stuff to blow your mind. My 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.840 name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And it's Saturday. 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:13.040 The Vault is open and it is going to be 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:16.520 part two of a two part Vault series. Now. Last Saturday, 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.640 we ran part one of our Science of Dune episodes 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:24.200 from we ran the Science of Dune Technology. Today it's 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.560 going to be another foray into the planet Iraq as 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.840 part two, the Science of Dune Biology, which originally aired 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.800 on October one. Yeah, there's a lot of sand where 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.800 I'm talking this episode, as we sort of pieced together 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:42.680 the science that that Frank Herbert used to create the 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.720 idea of the sand worm, as well as scientific interpretations 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:50.199 by a couple of different commentators in the decades to follow. Now, 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.839 wait a minute, Robert, we're going to be getting another 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:57.520 Dune film, right, Yes, it's true. Bye bye Dnevillneuve. Yes, 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.600 the director of, of course, the most recent blay Runner film, 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.440 Blade Run, which I really enjoyed and it certainly is 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.240 just full of visual flare like watching that and especially 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:12.160 enjoy I especially enjoyed the slow pace of the film, 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:16.280 like like Blade Runner is what three four hours long, 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.200 it's about seven hours long, but it feels like it's 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.720 just an hour and a half. It feels far shorter 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:27.360 than any superhero movie I have ever seen. How long 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.160 was Batman v. Superman Dawn of Justice? Is that about 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.280 six and a half hours? I don't know. I only 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:37.440 saw that over other people's shoulders on an airplane. I 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.039 watched it on a flight and could not finish it 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.039 on the flight. Like it. I started it at takeoff 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.560 and we landed and the movie wasn't over. Yeah, superhero 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.000 movies are not necessarily my thing these days, unless unless 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.480 it has Wesley Snipes in it, and he's he's running vampires. 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:56.240 So yeah, I am all in on another cinematic vision 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:58.720 of Dune. I mean every element, all the old ones 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.880 we talked about here, the sand warm terms. If we 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:03.760 get to face dancers, I really want to see a 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.280 nice cinematic vision of the face dancers as well. I 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.359 think I might have said this in the original episode, 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.280 so apologies if I repeat later in our rerun what 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.480 I'm about to say now, But I think there should 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:18.440 be an HBO series adaptation of the Done universe. Oh 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.520 you think what HBO did with Game of Thrones. They 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.000 should do with Done. Yeah, there's plenty of material. They're 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.800 even just the first book. You could do a full blown, 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:32.600 drawn out, you know, cinematic treatment of the thing. Like 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.400 I'm currently watching the Netflix adaptation of Richard K. Morgan's 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:41.320 Altered Carbon, which is a not that lengthy of a novel. 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.000 It has a lot of ins and outs, and they've 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.400 done a really great job of of giving it the 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.320 multi episode treatment. Whereas I like watching their treatment of it, 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.680 I can't imagine crushing it all down into even a 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.320 lengthy film, so Done is perfect for that that sort 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.960 of treatment. But I guess we're getting another movie. Hopefully 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.200 it'll be four to five hours long. That's that's that's 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.519 what I'm looking for. Hud percent agree, And I hope 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.040 it has a little intermission break in it. It just 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:09.960 runs for thirty seconds or so, but not a werewolf 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:14.040 break because there are no there are no werewolves. That's 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.480 a callback, folks, all right, with without further ado, let's 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:24.320 enter the vault. Welcome to Stuff to Blow your mind 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:41.280 from how Stuff Works dot Com. Disembarkation disembarkation notice to 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:46.000 all passengers arriving on Station Aracus, the June Planetary Tourism 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.240 Consortium funded by the great generosity of the most noble 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:52.720 House Hardconed would like to welcome you to planet Aracus. 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.760 Aracus is a dry place. Please remember to conserve water 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.960 whenever possible. It is recommended that you do not venture 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.760 outside without a properly fitted steel suit to recycle your sweat, 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.920 urine and fecal moisture. When traveling beyond the shield ball, 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.160 remember always to watchful worms. Signed by keeping in mind 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:16.280 the three ages, hissing, heaving, and high energy discharge. A 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.800 hissing sound in the sand, heaving up of displaced sediment, 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.000 and high energy study discharge from the dunes may all 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.839 indicate that the sand worm is near and the event 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.600 of worm sign do not activate shields and proceed immediately 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.560 to the nearest cave building or evacuation or in a 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:36.800 thought or local vendors and kiosks gone throughout station. Iraqets 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.760 are the best place to purchase steel suits, frim hits, 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:44.400 and individually packaged worm thumbers and duty free prices. Please 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:49.760 remember also the spice must blow. Anyone suspected of sabotaging, inhibiting, 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.080 or interfering with spice production may be subject to penalties 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:57.600 up to and including gladiatorial remuneration on gating prime or 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:06.000 personal evaporation. Please enjoy your stay among the dunes. Hey, 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:07.800 welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.600 Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And this is episode 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.400 two in our exploration of the science of doone, the 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:19.599 science of Frank Herbert's sci fi classic Dune, which is 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.760 celebrating its fifty the anniversary this year. Yeah, so if 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.440 you missed the first part, you should go back and 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.720 listen to that first part one where we talk about 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:29.840 the technology of doing and we we talked about some 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.000 important sort of introductory materials to the universe of doone. 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:36.240 If you're not familiar with it, we highly recommend that 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.800 you check out that part first before you listen to 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.359 this one. But if you just want to get thrown 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.920 right into the middle, here we are. Yeah. Last time 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.080 we talked about but Larry and Johad, we talked about 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:49.120 still suits, We talked about orna thoptors, and a little 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:54.560 bit about the Holtzman effect whatever that is. But yeah, 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.000 this time we're going to talk more about the the 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:01.840 living science of done, about the biology an ecology of 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:07.159 the planet Iracus, and one of the coolest things about 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.520 the Dune universe has got to be the sandworms. Yes, 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.359 I imagine that is one of, if not the key 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.040 aspects of the franchise that come to people's minds when 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.240 they think of do Yeah. I So, I just finished 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.400 reading this book a few weeks ago, and I loved it. 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.400 I absolutely adored this book. As I said in the 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:31.480 last podcast, it frequently struck me as just amazingly fresh 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.880 for a fifty year old book. It's full of ideas 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.680 that you don't encounter elsewhere. It just felt very original 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.640 and unique and different. But the moment where the book 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:45.640 really kicked into gear for me was the first sandworm attack. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:50.039 And this is when they're going out to observe spice harvests. Correct. Yeah, 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.440 So I want to kind of put you the listener 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:57.080 into the moment of the sandworm attack. So imagine you're 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.400 one of a group of twenty six spice sminers working 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.680 on a patch of spice in the deep desert. So 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:07.240 you're out there among the dunes. The heat is high, 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.560 the sun's bearing down on you. You've got your protective 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.880 still suit on, You're working the harvester machine trying desperately 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.640 to get this spice going, and you've you've been at 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.880 it for several minutes, and overhead there's this enormous cargo aircraft. 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.440 I suppose it would be some type of ornithopter with 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:27.720 flapping wings, which, as we discussed in the last last episode, 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.120 doesn't make a lot of aerodynamic sense, but okay, uh, 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.280 And it's called a carryall. It hovers nearby, waiting to 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:38.520 lift you off at a moment's notice, and preferably at 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.920 the last possible minute, to maximize the profits, because you've 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.040 got to get as much spice as you can. The 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:48.040 spice is important. The spice must flow, the universe needs it. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:53.440 But a worm will come. The worm always comes it. 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.680 Here's the harvester. It knows where you are and the 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.720 moment you start working, it's on its way now. With 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.320 for precautions, you'll lift off at just the right moment, 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:07.200 you'll get the maximum spice and you'll avoid the worm. 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.559 But if you're not able to lift off in time, 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.560 you may notice a hissing sound in the sand sliding. 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:18.160 You know, it's sand sliding against sand. In the background, 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.480 you might see a static discharge in the air and 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.240 Eventually you're gonna notice an upheaval of sand as the 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.360 worm rises to the shallows of the desert. And then 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.240 finally you see, and it's probably the last thing you see, 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:35.320 a great gaping circular mouth, maybe up to eighty meters wide, 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.679 emerging from the dunes, spreading open, closing over you, and 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.120 swallowing you and your friends and your mining vehicle all 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.360 in one bite. It's quite a site. And as far 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.040 as sound goes, we do want to give a quick 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:52.200 thanks to Chris Knife double O seven. Uh. He's on 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.600 band camp as Cheesy Nervosa. Will include a link to 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.280 his account on the landing bait for this episode. But 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.960 he does a lot of cool and it tracks where 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.520 he gets the the ambience from from various sci fi properties. 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.360 And so this was the track that we used to 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:12.199 was Dune Sandworm Ride. Yeah, so I love the sandworms. 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.160 I love the sandworms scenes in the book. When we 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.520 first encounter sandworms in the book, it's there merely as 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.319 a threat. You know, this this huge, terrifying beast that 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.880 lives in the desert. It's you know, it's a gigantic 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.719 snake eel worm type creature that it's sort of like 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.960 the monsters and tremors. You know, it lays under Yeah, 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.800 it lives under the ground. It can hear where you are. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.640 You know, it might be hundreds of meters long. They're 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.520 so huge you can't fight them off. There's no way 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.000 to avoid them except to run. Yeah, and I've I've 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:48.160 seen it describe that that the Frank Herbert sandworms are 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.360 are kind of like dragons, and but but not merely 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.120 in just the threat aspect. Not just a monstrous dragon, 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.440 but a celestial dragon, because there ultimately the gateway to wisdom. Yeah, 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:00.959 that's true, because I do want to spoil too much. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:02.920 But then later on in the book, we learned that 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.760 the desert dwellers of the planet Iraq is the Fremen, 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.720 have a more complex relationship with the sand worms. It's 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.000 not just you know, here's this huge, threatening creature that 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.680 we have to avoid. They have a sort of a 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:18.559 bit of a back and forth. I don't want to 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:22.360 say too much more, but it's really interesting, and so 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:24.680 I thought we should talk about the sand worm. What 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.800 is this organism as it's imagined in the Dune universe, 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:31.240 and how has this changed the way we think about 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.520 aliens and science fiction? And what what analogies can we 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:38.320 make to real world life forms? Yeah, and for starters, 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.840 let's just go ahead and roll through what we know 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.760 from from Frank Herbert's books. And again it's one of 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.560 those cases where Herbert, there's a lot of information at 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.760 you about how sand worms work, but then when you 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.120 add it all up right, you realize you don't know 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.880 key things. Um, here's what we know. The sand worm 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.000 or shy hallud I believe that is the fremin term 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.400 a creature. Again, you utterly unique to iraq Us, totally 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.079 tied to a complex life cycle on the desert planet. 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.640 Links exceed four hundred meters width of a hundred meters 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.600 at the thickest point, perhaps as long as the thousand meters. 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.720 In the deep isolated parts of the desert mouth, diameter 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.440 is probably about eighty meters, so when it's open and 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:23.320 lined with a thousand or more cargo silica crystal teeth um. 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.680 A typical worm consists of one to four hundred segments, 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:31.319 and each segment possessed its own nervous system. Something to 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.839 keep in mind for later. Now, what Herbert didn't tell us. 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:38.160 He didn't tell us whether sand Mouran's lay eggs. They 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.440 He didn't tell us if they're male and female, how 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.400 reproduction occurs at all. He didn't tell us if it's 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.440 a definitively if it's a vertebrate or an invertebrate. He 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.920 didn't explain the physics of how it moves, and he 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.720 didn't tell us what it eats. I would be surprised 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.719 if it's vertebrate, simply because I think of vertebrate as 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.760 a category belonging to Earth life. I mean, I think 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.520 it might have some kind of internal, you know, rigid structure. 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.720 But it's weird to think about those, you know, those 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.319 peculiarities of evolution that seems so ubiquitous on Earth. We 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.960 just assume their natural categories. But I mean, who knows 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.559 if a alien life form is likely to have a backbone, right, 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.240 And I think that ultimately, the like the segmented nature 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.560 and the independence of the segments tends to imply something 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.559 that is inherently invertebrate. But but again, he doesn't draw 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.920 a distinct line in the sand. Well, then to learn 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:30.680 more about the sand worm, I think we're gonna have 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.120 to turn back to our old friends that we mentioned 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.160 in the last episode. A couple of books that we 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.920 used as resources. So one of these is going to 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.600 be The Science of Dune, edited by Kevin R. Grazier, 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.520 and then the other one is the Dune Encyclopedia right right. 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.880 That one's compiled by Dr Willis E. McNelly, and that 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.240 came out in eighty five. It's out of print, but 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:55.319 you can still find used copies in various places. Uh 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.120 I got mine online for like, you know, fifteen or 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.000 twenty bucks, so it's it's still out there and it's 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.360 not like an out of your reach collector's item. In 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.800 particular that the explanations for sandworms from these two books. 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.040 From Doune Encyclopedia, we have an explanation by marine a shifflet, 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:15.400 and in the Science of Doune we have a sybil 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.960 hetchel pH D's explanation from her piece the Biology of 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:24.520 the sand Worm. Now I'm actually gonna start with the 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:30.920 Doune Encyclopedia explanation from Marine shifflet. Um shifflet goes ahead 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:36.240 and defines both male and female sandworms, the ladder somewhat 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:41.160 smaller than the males, with the secondary segment um of 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:45.480 each worm containing its reproductive system, and she posits that 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.240 at age one thousand, because these are long living creatures, 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.040 the female develops an egg sact in her reproductive system, 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.440 constructs a deep, massive nest, and then a tracts a 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.880 male with rhythmic thumping. Now this is key because in 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:04.480 the in doone we see people attracting or distracting a 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.679 worm by using a mechanical thumper. Right, yeah, that's one 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.559 of the technologies we could have talked about in the 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:11.480 last episode, but I guess we just didn't have time. 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.800 The thumper is a sort of you might think of 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.600 it as a defensive decoy mechanism out in the desert 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.040 where if you want to draw off a sandworm, or 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.680 perhaps even attract a sandworm, you put this thing down 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.320 in the ground and it starts beating on the sand 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.480 to say come on over, Yeah, with a rhythmic pattern, 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.120 because if you you know, there's like this thing, if 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.600 you you got to walk without rhythm, yeah, you know, 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.040 unless you want to attract the worm. So yeah, one 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:40.640 of the things that's frequently mentioned in the book is 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.240 that if you want to walk across the sand and 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.320 not attract the worm, you have to walk without rhythm. 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.080 You have to walk without any kind of uh cadence 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.200 to your walk. And I love how they bring up 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.320 the fact that this is so much harder to do 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.400 than it sounds like, like the characters are just exhausted 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.480 from trying to walk without maintaining a rhythm of their gait. Right. 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.720 And so she ties this into the into the life 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.840 cycle the worm by saying that it's that kind of 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:12.560 rhythmic um thumping that not only indicates something unnatural on 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.120 the desert surface, but perhaps the mating cry, the mating 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.880 call of the female worm. So she says that then 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.760 the male would arrive, consumes the smaller female, just straight 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.680 up eats the female and then goes into a dormant state. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.160 And it's during the state that the heavy duty spice 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:35.360 fiber egg sac remains intact and it's fertilized by the 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.640 male's reproductive system. And then when he wakes up, he's 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:43.080 gonna spit that fertilized egg sac out. What yeah, I mean, 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:47.440 I've heard of reproductive cannibalism, but what yeah, this is 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.040 it's an interesting uh uh. And again this is you know, 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:55.560 her taking Herbert's world and extrapolating on it and trying 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.800 to come with a scientific explanation for how it might work. 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.960 It's not. This is not cannon by any means, but 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.920 it is interesting because we don't see sexual cannibalism occur 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.240 in nature that I can think of where the male 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.000 eats the female, because generally the female is the species 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:13.920 and she may or may not eat the male after 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.640 he's served his purpose. But here we have the male 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:21.040 consuming the female. Yeah, okay, I mean that just makes 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:24.120 me wonder if this almost would start to play with 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.840 the definitions of what counts as male and what counts 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.480 as female in a species. Yeah, I would. I feel 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.360 like I would feel more comfortable with this example if 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:35.880 the genders were reversed and the primary primarily the sandworms 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.720 are are female. But but you know, either way, the 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:43.480 the best example that comes to mind of something close 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:48.440 to this in the natural world would be um anglerfish, 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.000 where you have, oh those great things, so you've probably 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.240 seen pictures of this from the deep ocean. They look 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.560 like movie monsters. Uh, they've got the crazy faces and 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.680 that they've got a little a little lit up fishing pole, right, 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.200 And those are the females. The females are the ones 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:06.040 we see pictures of the males. Um are essentially a tiny, 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.800 heat seeking sexual missile equipped with gigantic nostrils. Uh. All 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.560 they do is they swim out in search of a 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.840 female and if he's lucky, and most are not, they 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.760 find one and they bite onto her abdomen and hang on. Again. 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.680 These are the angler fish, real world organisms, nothing from 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.440 sci fi. And then there I'm looking. I just sorry, 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.399 I looked. I just googled pictures of the male angler 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.280 fish attaching to the female angler fish. And it's pathetic. 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:35.480 It's could go with that interpretation because what happens is 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.480 not only does he bite on and hold on, but 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.879 their flesh grows together, their blood vessels connect, and the 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.040 male becomes a mere part of the female's body, sustained 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.600 by her systems. His eyes, fins, and some internal organs 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.080 all atrophy h and just leave him as just this 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.400 fat flap of skin, this just mindless thing on the female. 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.800 And this way, the male and his reproductive systems are 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.800 always there when she needs them, which is a necessary 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.960 adaptation in the a dark, lonely world of the deep ocean. 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.080 That's fascinating. I've never read about this before. I was 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.120 really I ran across in the past year or two 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.240 and was pretty amazed by it. But that's certainly it's 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.560 the case where the male and female fuse into one. 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.639 And I guess you could interpret this consumption of the 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.160 of the female sand worm is more of emerging than 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.320 a consumption, since there's not, according to her model anyway, 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.560 there's not really any nourishment to be gained from the 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.960 worm eating the other worm. So this is where we 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.639 start getting into a more complex life cycle. So bear 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.520 with me, everyone, Um, when the male sum so, the 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.959 male sandword comes to vomits up that egg case, and 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.880 he takes off the egg case. Eventually hatch catches into 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:45.080 a legion of sand trout sand trout sand trout. Yes, 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.120 and now these these this is where we're getting back 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:51.320 into um, into the actual canon of of of Frank 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.320 Herbert's sandworm biology, because these are very much a part 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:58.439 of the series. Yeah, there are sequences in Dune where character, well, 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:00.639 at least one character I can think of, the planetary 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.080 scientist kinds Uh. There may be other characters, but not 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.480 that I recall. At least Kinds thinks about down under 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:12.359 the the dunes of sand there are these massive patches 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.560 of life. Then there's moisture down there too, which is 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.680 sort of hidden from the surface, which is I guess 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.280 being trapped or used by these unicellular life forms. And 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:26.159 in this case we're talking twenty by six centimeter unicellular organisms. 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:31.639 But that's a big cell. You know, Alien world, different laws, right, um. 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.880 But but yeah, their water scavengers. So the idea here 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.359 is that they're traveling out, they're collecting water, they're bringing 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:41.280 them back, according to um to this model, anyway, to 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.560 the nest site and there sequestering the water. And here 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:49.040 the water mixes with excretions from the pre spice mass. Uh. 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.199 And here the c t U c O two builds 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.600 up as a byproduct, and this eventually results in a 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.239 spice blow explosion. And this is very much a part 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:00.480 of the books, where eventually the pressure builds up and 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:05.120 it blasts that precious spice melange that's produced uh somehow 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:09.800 by this sand trout nesting water sequestering action blows it 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:11.640 up to the surface where people can say, hey, there's 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:15.160 some spice there, let's go get it, all right, all right, 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:16.800 So but it's not only people that want to come 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.760 and get the spice that also attracts the sand worms, 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.600 which we'll get into. Um. And at this point, according 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:25.560 to Schifflet, the sand worms enter a pre metamorphic stage 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.840 during which surviving sand trout joined bodies, and as metamorphosis 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.960 sets in properly, each sand trout also known as a 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:36.639 little maker among the fremen, becomes a segment of a 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.720 conjoined body that becomes a small sandworm. So again we 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.560 see conjoined bodies coming into play. Uh. And this is 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:48.199 this is certainly part of of Herbert's original model for 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.720 the sand worm. So this is fascinating because the sand 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:54.600 worm and that sense it's is sort of a composite organism. Yes, 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.480 very much so. Um and this this play I don't 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.240 want to give any spoilers, but this also plays out 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.200 and rather unique and mind blowing ways in the sequels. Okay, 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.399 so how long does it take for little sand trout 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:10.080 joining together to become the gigantic shihlud like we see 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.320 in the book? You know, before they're they're a big 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.320 sandworm out in the desert over over a thousand years, 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.280 because it's going to take that long, corner and Chifflet 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.760 here to segment for the segments to take on. Uh, 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.200 you know, the different properties such as the tooth head, 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:28.640 the reproductive system. If you're going by her model and 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.520 h during this time of environmental conditions are not met, 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.960 then the underdifferentiated segments can revert to sand trout. So 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.440 it's kind of like those jellyfish that can that can 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:42.840 reverse age, right, they can revert to the earlier life 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:45.439 form stage if things aren't going well. Yeah, I like 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.679 that detail. If she throws in and finally the a 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:52.480 sexual juvenile warm develops and it's twenty to thirty long, 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:56.080 and this is the form that fremen eventually capture and 0:21:56.200 --> 0:22:00.199 drown to produce spice essence. More about spice in this 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:04.000 episode later that's coming up. Uh, most juveniles, according to Shifflet, 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:07.919 would become females, but it's possible that it's possible that 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:11.000 the environmental absence of a male is what results in 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.320 male development. In the book itself, we're told that each 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.840 male has a three four hundred kilometer territory that it 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:22.640 defends against other worms, and she has a really interesting 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:27.280 bit about how that combat would work. Yeah, how do 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.159 the worms fight each other if they're just they're huge 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:33.960 worms with big circular mouths. Well, she draws on a 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.159 on a on a detail that will discuss in a minute. 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.480 Um or I guess, let's go ahead and hit it. 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:42.719 How does someone ride a sandworm? Ah, yes, well this 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:44.399 is something we learned about later in the book and 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:47.560 it's very interesting. So the sandworm, like the sandworms like 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.240