WEBVTT - Steph Green 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.680 This is Rebecca Soulnett talking about hashtag me too, if 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.120 the right to speak, if having credibility, if being heard, 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:11.640 is a kind of wealth. That wealth is now being redistributed. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.560 There has long been an elite with audibility and credibility 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.640 and underclass of the voiceless. As the wealth is redistributed, 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:25.000 the stunned incomprehension of the elites erupts over and over again, 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.479 a fury and disbelief that this woman or child dared 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.879 to speak up, that people deigned to believe her, that 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:44.640 her voice counts for something. Our voice is a reflection 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.800 of our life experience, where we've been and who we've 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.160 listened to. But we can also own it and even 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.360 change it if we want. This is the podcast that's 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.480 all about the voice, but it's also all about power, 0:00:57.840 --> 0:00:59.920 Who has it, how we get it, and how we 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.800 sound when we have it. I'm Samrve. I'm a dialect 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.440 coach for actors in Hollywood on projects like the upcoming 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:12.200 Wonder Woman's sequel, and I'm also a speech coach for entrepreneurs, politicians, creatives, 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.240 and women everywhere who need to use their voice to 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.759 get what they want. Welcome to permission, to speak. Let's 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:30.360 do this. Today's guest is Steph Green. She is a 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.039 director for television and film. In fact, one of her 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:37.600 first films, Short in two thousand and seven, got an 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:40.920 Oscar nomination right out of the gate, and she's gone 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.640 on to direct film and many many episodes of television. 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:48.320 She did Billions, she did the Americans Man in the 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.960 High Castle, an episode of Watchmen, the L Word, which 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.840 we talked about in this interview. So she's had to 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.120 use her voice to lead, and this is why I 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.080 really wanted to have her on. The culture that she's 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.920 doing it in is totally unique, you know, hashtag set life, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.240 but there's lessons for all of us. What's crazy about 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.040 the Hollywood aspect of it is that when you're directing 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:18.079 on set, things move super fast. There are no walls 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:20.800 to your office, there's a massive amount of money on 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:24.280 the line and hundreds of people's jobs. You often have 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:26.840 to decide things on the fly based on gut instinct, 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:31.279 and there's a real but often unlabeled and like completely 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.760 nebulous hierarchy of power players whose interests you have to 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:39.400 juggle or everyone will mutiny. HR isn't a thing, and 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:43.240 it's also deeply male dominated, and within that you have 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.640 to make decisions and make art anyway. I have gotten 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:51.000 to see her work firsthand because I dialect coached on 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.240 a show that she directed, and I am very excited 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.120 to be able to bring the magic I saw then 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:09.840 to you guys. Now Here's stuff staff. It's such a 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:13.400 pleasant here pleasure to be. I remember when I was 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.160 had the honor of being a dialect coach on a 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.840 Steph Green set for the TV show Preacher, like two 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.480 years ago in New Orleans. Was great, and you called 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:28.880 me part of the mind meld tear. It was such 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.840 I mean, you know, obviously were I've been in a 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.560 lot of sets. I mean every director deals with the 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.000 dynamic of collaboration on a set differently. I have noticed, 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:43.040 almost exclusively, the women are the ones who are most 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.680 open to like turning around to the people who sit 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.800 behind them in video Village and actually using those resources. 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.280 That's interesting. Your position of that close observation of the 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:56.200 director is very I mean it's really producers, script supervisor 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.560 and a very select few that are sitting that close 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.200 to the director on set. That's a really interesting person 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.200 for anybody listening. Video Village is where the video monitors 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.680 are set up that we're watching the action happen for 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.800 every single take. And yeah, the front row is usually 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.960 the director and the script supervisor who keeps track of continuity, 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.240 you know, take if by take by take, and then 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.320 hovering around there is often a writer of from a producer, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:24.279 and then the strange other person who somehow gets gets 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.400 her way in is the dialect coach. Because really we 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.360 are working pretty intimately with the actors and with everybody, 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.080 trying to make sure that the story is being told 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:34.760 with both the sounds and also literally the words. And 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.520 I find that that's a sacred space. That's my office, 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.640 that's all of our offices on set. And though many 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.200 different crew members may come up to you as a 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.800 director and ask a question, or you may need something 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.520 and go talk to them, of the hundred people on set, 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.520 there are generally four or five people in that little 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:54.360 office looking at that screen. And what I loved about 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.680 having you there, and what I love about having that 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.800 coach there is they are scrutinizing what's happening on screen 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:02.080 with performances the same way I am. You know, I'm 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.440 looking at other things too, but I like the partnership 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.560 of someone else squinting, you know, in this focused way 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.279 at that screen, that little monitor that's that's giving us everything, 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.520 all the results of all the hard work that's happening 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.680 on that set. You know, that capturing Ultimately in the 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.000 editing room, that's what you got. So I really appreciate that, 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.840 and I appreciate all the levels of collaboration. You wanted 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.400 to talk about communication, Maybe we start with set and 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.000 we can kind of talk out from there. But that's 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:32.320 what I was thinking about on the way here. I 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:38.280 was thinking about communication on set and sort of energetically 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:43.840 how you are balancing your very careful position of power 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:48.040 and leadership with the fact that you need every single 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.360 individual on that set to be helping you at one time, 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:53.880 you know, and you're looking at them there, You're with them, 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:55.880 You're in contact with them. I can imagine in other 0:05:55.920 --> 0:06:00.800 industries someone from down in another department maybe doing something 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:02.560 for you, but you may never interact with that. I 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.119 mean literally, you just referenced video village as your office, 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.640 but it has no walls exactly exactly. So you are 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:14.599 learning daily and for me, attempting to improve communication with 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.600 such a diverse and constantly fluid group of people, a 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:20.600 lot of people, So how do you create a shorthand? 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.640 I mean that is where where prep is so important, 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.400 because prep is where you are working with heads of department, 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.120 which would be like costume design, production designer, makeup and hair, 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:36.400 and you are establishing the shared vision ahead of time, 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:38.840 you know, getting onto the same page as all your 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.440 heads of department. That's your like board meeting. I guess 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.720 that you're in for prep and then I find like 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.880 really learning who their departments are, who are their key people, 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.640 who are they being supported by? And knowing those names. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.240 I mean that's a huge thing and that names are 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.160 really hard for me, and it's something I'm really working on. 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.240 You know, being able to look at someone in the 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.840 eyes say a name and then of course they thank 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.440 you or ask your question or listen to their contribution, 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.440 like step one and learning a hundred names quickly is 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.280 a thing. And you know, we talked about it. Some 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:12.960 of the producers I work with you always are like 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.240 should we put name tags on the first couple of 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.400 weeks of working together? But and I'm for it because 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.320 I think we're moving so quickly. That's the other thing. 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.360 We're moving so fast. So I think about communication, but 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.120 I was also sort of driving here thinking I think 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:30.520 about how I listen, and then how it is a 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:34.040 demand of the job to be decisive and supportive, because 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.800 that's what I'm information. You're you're listening, but you're also 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.280 not just saying yes to everybody. You can't. You can't 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:41.640 because they have conflicting ideas. Sometimes you know, one department 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.920 thinks one way, in one department, you're not moderating as well. Yeah, 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.040 and you have your own vision eating that you're trying 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:50.200 to bring to the table, elevating, shaping the show, shaping 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.200 the storytelling. So can you talk about a moment when 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.880 you actually have to be decisive and it's going to 0:07:55.920 --> 0:08:00.280 make somebody frustrated? Right? You know? It's it's interesting because 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.280 you have to understand and anticipate and know them well 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:09.880 enough to understand how that disappointment works for them, and 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.680 because it is such compressed time. I do feel that 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.520 it's incredibly important to acknowledge what they are bringing, what 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.560 they have done, how they are guiding the decision making, 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:23.160 and that in fact there contribution, even though I may 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.640 not see it that way. Has helped me clarify how 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.640 I do see it, and I think that making sure 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.600 that you're you're gracious about that, and you're acknowledging of 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:37.640 that that that idea is really valuable. Here where people 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.640 start to collapse is when they feel their ideas aren't valuable. 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.719 And it's a really fine line because you need to 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.480 make those decisions quickly. I just snapped at the microphone. Sorry, microphone. 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:50.400 You need to make those decisions so quickly that people 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.440 can get it can get very personal very quickly, and 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:56.440 then you know, you find yourself going, I think somebody 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:58.640 might be offended there, and then I and then I'm 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.120 trying to fix that, but we don't. We don't always 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.120 have time, you know. So it's it's that's why it's 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.040 a tough industry, totally tough to create trust, tough to 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.840 not take things personally. And everybody in every department, from 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:12.680 you know, the set to the makeup to the dialect 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.760 coach like, we're there because we're obsessed with the thing 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.959 that we're there for and ideally also have a sense 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.160 of the whole, but not always, you know, Well, it's 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.480 kind of to be weirdly obsessed with the one thing 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:27.440 that we're there for. Absolutely and then I think the 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.920 director's job in many situations is the inclusivity of all, right, 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:37.520 so bringing your particular passion to the whole. And I 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.199 enjoy that. I like that because I'm surrounded by creative 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.360 artists who are passionate. What you're painting the picture of 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.920 is leadership, right, I mean, that's what we're really talking 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.480 about here, And leadership in I don't know, I guess 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.560 a more stereotypically female way entails that there is a 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.839 sense of empowering other people, that they're making them feel appreciated, 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:58.720 that you're making sure that they feel like they have 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.760 a voice. And then ultimately decisions have to be made. 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.040 And so you know, you can't obviously make everybody happy 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.280 in every moment, but hopefully you're making them happy overall 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.600 because they feel like they're part of something bigger, exactly. 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.040 And I've I've been fortunate to work for men who 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.000 operated exactly that way too, you know, and those have 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:17.679 been guides for me as well. And you know, I've 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.480 been working in television for four years straight. That is 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.079 crazy because it seems like longer, and also because you're 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.959 doing amazing or thank you the majority of of who 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.840 I've worked for and with our men and on great 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:34.840 projects the Americans, Watchmen, Billions, I mean, just robust, fantastic 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.880 storytelling of late There are more women to work for 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.360 in drama, which is exciting, And these last two pilots 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.040 were with women, with Jana Fattory Megan Abbott on Deremy 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.480 and then Marja Lewis Ryan on Hellwards. So it's very 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:51.400 exciting and it is interesting to be working with women 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.720 who I think do have in general, and I towards 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:59.400 hiring more women and diversifying and then working with you know, 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.520 tradition really or I'm generalizing, but you know, more feminine traits. Sure, 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.520 I think they do show up. What do you mean, well, 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:09.839 nurturing and I think there's all sides to that that 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.280 can mean. You know, like you said, ultimately, you can't 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.480 make everyone happy, right, and women have to really I 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.520 think stick to our guns in a way that in 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.960 a way that's still challenging because we we haven't always 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.680 been given the opportunity to be the final word on things, 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.360 the absolutely final word. The buck stops here. This woman 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.800 is fully in charge of this project. So I feel 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.720 like a lot of skills that we've by, We like 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:40.240 the ancestors of us. Yeah, have developed our persuasion skills 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.560 because we're not the final say that's right, and you know, 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.360 and maybe and I'm still working with all of these ideas. 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.880 This is all just part of, you know, kind of 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:55.480 a learning curve. And you know, I guess watching how 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.760 women work with emotion differently because it's been a different 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.400 kind of tool for us. I guess you could say 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.720 the way you're saying persuasion is different. Really it's about power. 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.640 Where do we find our power in a landscape that 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.480 has not doesn't entitle us too much power? In certain environments, 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:14.920 there's no assumption that we're going to have power, So 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:16.679 how do we sit in our power? So how do 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.319 you sit in your power? Stuff? Well, I'm working on that, 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.600 you know, I'm watching women around me and I'm getting 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:26.000 inspired and I'm what do you notice? Ease to be 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:30.960 at ease with oneself and one's level of knowledge and experience, 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.520 accepting there's of course room to grow, but sort of 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.679 owning the hard work that one has done up until 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.439 this point. And you know, really, I guess it's a 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.880 it's a cliche less fear of failure, you know, sort 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.319 of like this is who I am, Take me or 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.520 leave me. I think that's been a scary thing for 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:55.600 me because you know also that I mean, I guess 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.160 this town can make you feel like, well, what do 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.680 you need me to be right now? Albeit give me 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:01.480 this up tunity, I'll be what you need me to be, 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.720 you know. And I'm just getting older and working more 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.679 you start to think, well, you know, what can this 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.200 do for me as an experience, and what can I 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.920 do for them? And like it's not just what projects 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.040 are looking that I can fit myself into, but also 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.360 what type of projects do I want to be exactly. 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:25.160 That's a constant conversation internally and with with my peers. 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.960 I think we're all figuring that out. And also, like 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:32.320 the times continue to change absolutely, and it's so inspiring. 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.640 I see things changing rapidly, you know, the type of 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.520 artists that are being appreciated, the women coming into their 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.720 power and starting to lead and support other women artists. 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.280 And you know, I think of Lena Wave like immediately, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.280 that's who's producing the show that I'm on right now? 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:52.520 Really yeah, right, I mean, she took her success and 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:56.920 now she is really making things happen. It's just incredibly 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.720 inspiring and I get really buzzed about that. Yeah. Yeah, 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.679 it feels like we're like, oh, there's a paradigm that 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.199 could be shifting. Let's just um, not just to shift, 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.120 let's shift it. Let's just do it, and let's do 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.480 it consciously. And there's still a real problem. But I 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:14.480 will say on the L word, Marjah was incredibly adamant 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:19.200 about diversity hiring the show runner and showrunner for people 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.720 listening means the person who's in charge of the writer's room, 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.320 yes and more, and really the overall kind of boss 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.680 of the series at large. And I'd be coming up 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:30.240 with and we can talk about prep and you know 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:31.880 what we're doing in prep, but I'd be coming up 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.320 with sort of the visual you know, participation in casting, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:39.280 participation in everything that launches the world that we're gonna 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.120 put this show in. But we were so interested in 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.400 diversity as we were hiring, and we really confronted the 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:49.880 lack everywhere, just of lists that would come to us 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.200 from different you know, it's that internal kind of Hollywood 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.520 conversation like where and then we but we found people 0:14:55.320 --> 0:15:00.320 and I saw it at work, you know, truly sifting 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.000 the balance. And uh, I'm starting to see that more 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.200 and more. I was reading from Lyndy West's new book 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.480 called The Witches Are Coming, and she has an essay 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.400 about sort of the responsibility that Hollywood might or might 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.920 not have after Weinstein, And what I love about it 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.240 is that she's not actually just talking about in terms 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:19.440 of hiring, but she's actually talking about the stories that 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:23.120 we tell. Yes, um, and so I'm going to read 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.960 this quote of hers and maybe we can talk about it. 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.160 She says. To make that reckoning stick, the reckoning of 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.360 the me too movement, we have to look ahead and 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.120 ask ourselves what we want of this new Hollywood, and 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.160 look back to avoid repeating the past. Show Business could 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:38.960 very well help us get out of this mess, but 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.120 not if we fail to examine how it helped us 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.640 get into it. Hollywood is both a perfect and a 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:48.200 bizarre vanguard in the war for culture change. Perfect because 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:52.440 its reaches so vast, it's influenced so potent. Bizarre because 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.160 television movies are how a great many toxic ideas embed 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.280 themselves inside us in the first place, No matter how 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.480 much lips are as we pay tweet quality and progress, 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.760 how many mantras about loving ourselves and one another. How 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:09.520 many inspirational memes we churn out to counteract the message. 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.840 The basist culture, the culture that sells, the culture we're 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.880 used to, is still there on screen, showing us how 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.400 people are supposed to look and talk and fuck. Mm hmm. 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.200 That's great, right. And I thought of you when I 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.120 was reading that, because of the projects that you're working 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.240 on now. I mean, you just did watch Man, you 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.080 just did the L word. It feels like this is 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.600 the new vanguard. I mean, this is the attempt to 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.560 say we can't just tell the same stories and make 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:41.600 hiring different. I hope and must believe that that's the case, 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.360 and I am choosing projects with that in mind. What 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.960 are we really saying here? And when I write somewhat 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.200 and when I think about what I want to write, 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:55.080 I think about that I've always thought about message And 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:00.240 this denial that we do internalize these messages is is 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.440 like denying climate change. We do internalize what we see 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.919 on these screens. This is our campfire now, this is 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.000 the wisdom that has passed to us from these screens. 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.200 And I do feel responsibility. I also feel like when 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.000 I give, I give a d and of myself I 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.359 want to believe that I'm putting something into the world 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:22.080 that is good for humanity, is for positive growth in 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.720 some way. You're not always right. You do your best 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.000 to feel that out, you know, but um, yeah, I 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.320 really hope. So I hope that's right. And I mean, 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.720 we still have a long way to go to kind 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:38.320 of recognize our shadow as a race, as a as humans. 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.560 Watchman is really asking questions, and l Ward is really 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.280 looking at shame, and you know, Daremy is looking at 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.359 you know, sort of. I mean, Megan Abbot is brilliant 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.960 in so many ways. But the feminism isn't just about 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.240 heroic women. It's about all women. It's about flaw, it's 0:17:55.240 --> 0:18:01.200 about intent, it's about friendship and the flip side of friendship, 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.960 how women treat each other, and you know, it's it's everything. 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.919 And also, like, what even is female heroism? Like it 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.119 doesn't require that it's sort of that masculine sense of 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:13.440 heroism where like one person is in charge of some revolution. 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.440 That's right, that's right. What is female power? What does 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.120 it look like? So? What does it look like? Stuff? 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.760 Obviously it's sort of it's it's comically too big of 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.080 a question, but it is also literally the point of 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.680 this podcast is what does female power look and sound like? 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.360 I feel like we don't have um, it's not that there. 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.760 It isn't there, right we we we all have people 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.280 in our own lives and people certainly that we can 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.359 look at in Congress right now who are who are 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.520 lighting the way, but we don't necessarily have like the 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:47.679 language to sort of talk about it in the place 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.920 to collect the stories. And there is this sort of 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.640 modern notion. And I would love to ask that question 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:58.000 to a twenty year old you know, really speak it please, 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.080 because I know from me there was a there was 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:05.320 a notion of I guess the powerful woman that was 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.280 kind of the having it all, like a little bit 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:14.760 of the capitalist dream that we had with men in 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:16.840 the fifties, right that you would kind of come back 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.159 from the war and get a house and get a 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.600 wife and get two kids and have a great job 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.439 and you know, great vacations and for my generations, like 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:27.720 you as a woman can have all that too. You 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.240 can have the kids and the job and the and 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.720 as I've worked in a career that is fourteen hours 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.560 a day, and I know you know the same. You know, 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.439 you just start to go, well, actually it's not all 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.600 quite possible in the way I idealized it, and I 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:46.640 actually feel exhausted and depleted and I feel less empowered 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.520 by all these things I'm trying to accomplish. So in 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.359 a way, for me, it's self realization, whatever that looks 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.120 like for you, and getting away from a sort of 0:19:55.760 --> 0:20:01.639 social pressure normalized, you know, heteronormal ideal that we have 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.120 to realize we kind of inherited it was you can 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:09.439 have it too, what's it for you? And what was 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:13.240 a response to, like sort of elbowing our way in 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.480 so that we could have the same dream the men 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:20.119 were sold right, Although you know, having a family and 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:22.520 having a good job is sort of a general desire 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:24.960 of course, but I think, I think, I think a 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.480 lot about that, and women I admire are sort of 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.520 seem to be structuring all that for themselves, truly, for 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:35.720 themselves to self realize what they really want, which could 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.680 be not having it all or what or total definition 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.280 of what it all is. There's a woman I grew 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:46.760 up with who you know, I think she volunteered abroad, 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.560 like she stayed abroad, she still works in like, you know, 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.919 just defining success for yourself and power. This feels like 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.800 it's really about giving ourselves permission to look at what 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.479 the rules are that we were handed down and say, like, 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:02.159 who you to these rules? What if we break them? A? 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:04.919 What do we want? But be can we get it 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.639 by like putting a critical eye on those things that 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:09.680 seemed like they were hard and fast rules. I mean 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.560 from the vast like you're talking about in terms of 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.359 how we structure our lives and whether or not we 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:18.000 go for you know, trying to buy a house in 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.639 this amazing l a climate um and having children and 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.240 all these massive questions, but also just the tiny, the 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.399 tiny things like literally how much emotion are we allowed 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:29.440 to bring into work? I was just gonna say, I 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:31.920 think we got kind of macro there, but ultimately, yeah, 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.280 it's like there's almost like I feel like sometimes we 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:37.359 feel trip wires, right, Like I can be powerful in 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:39.040 this way, but I can't be powerful in this way. 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:43.840 For example, anger like anger just we don't really get 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.160 to be angry, or at least that's again I don't 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.040 give myself permission to be angry. That cuts off a 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.880 whole range of feelings and then we're sort of we're 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:56.960 just perpetuating that a woman can be a great leader, 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.119 but if she gets angry once, she's crazy. But I 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:03.080 think using anger for focus, for fire, for passion, directing 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:10.080 different emotional range to your purpose. You know, we were 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:13.760 encouraged in some ways and we're discouraged. And we've been 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:16.719 discouraged in so many ways from young ages. I mean 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.480