1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:22,276 Speaker 1: Pushkin. There's a bunch of stuff I want to ask you. 2 00:00:22,396 --> 00:00:26,276 Speaker 1: A lot of it is about the relationship between technology 3 00:00:26,316 --> 00:00:28,876 Speaker 1: and creativity, and especially given the fact that you've been 4 00:00:28,876 --> 00:00:33,636 Speaker 1: working at Pixar for a long time, respectfully, how that 5 00:00:33,756 --> 00:00:34,596 Speaker 1: changes over time? 6 00:00:34,756 --> 00:00:37,716 Speaker 2: Okay, so how creativity changes as technology changes? 7 00:00:37,876 --> 00:00:39,676 Speaker 1: Yeah? So, actually, can you just say your name and 8 00:00:39,716 --> 00:00:40,156 Speaker 1: your job? 9 00:00:40,836 --> 00:00:43,876 Speaker 2: Sure? My name is Danielle Feinberg, and I work at 10 00:00:43,876 --> 00:00:47,396 Speaker 2: Pixar Animation Studios and I am a visual effects supervisor. 11 00:00:48,076 --> 00:00:50,956 Speaker 1: So you're a visual effects supervisor. Now, if I understand correctly, 12 00:00:50,996 --> 00:00:52,876 Speaker 1: you spent a lot of your career there. You've been 13 00:00:52,916 --> 00:00:55,516 Speaker 1: at Pixar for more than what twenty five years at 14 00:00:55,516 --> 00:00:55,876 Speaker 1: this point? 15 00:00:56,116 --> 00:00:58,316 Speaker 2: So right, yeah, I hit twenty six. 16 00:00:58,556 --> 00:01:04,836 Speaker 1: Musseltov, you were director of photography for lighting for a 17 00:01:04,916 --> 00:01:06,876 Speaker 1: lot of your time there, right, And that's striking to 18 00:01:06,916 --> 00:01:10,076 Speaker 1: me because, if I understand correctly, there are in fact, 19 00:01:10,436 --> 00:01:14,796 Speaker 1: like no photographs and no actual lights in Pixar movies. Right, 20 00:01:14,836 --> 00:01:17,036 Speaker 1: So what does it mean to be the director of 21 00:01:17,036 --> 00:01:20,356 Speaker 1: photography for lighting on you know, movies like say Coco. 22 00:01:21,076 --> 00:01:25,036 Speaker 2: So picky of you, Jacob, I'm sorry, so curious, I'm curious. 23 00:01:30,156 --> 00:01:32,836 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein. And this is What's Your Problem, the 24 00:01:32,876 --> 00:01:34,996 Speaker 1: show where I talk to people who are trying to 25 00:01:35,076 --> 00:01:39,196 Speaker 1: make technological progress. My guest today, as you've already heard, 26 00:01:39,316 --> 00:01:42,196 Speaker 1: is Danielle Feinberg, and as you will hear, we did 27 00:01:42,236 --> 00:01:46,476 Speaker 1: talk about creativity and technological change. Also we talked about 28 00:01:46,516 --> 00:01:49,476 Speaker 1: the problem she's trying to solve now, and we talked 29 00:01:49,476 --> 00:01:52,196 Speaker 1: about how we can often wind up following rules that 30 00:01:52,276 --> 00:01:55,196 Speaker 1: are not particularly useful and that in a lot of 31 00:01:55,196 --> 00:01:57,516 Speaker 1: cases we don't even know we are following. 32 00:02:01,276 --> 00:02:05,036 Speaker 2: So director of photography is in a live action movie, 33 00:02:05,156 --> 00:02:07,356 Speaker 2: is the same as a cinematographer, and so they're doing 34 00:02:07,396 --> 00:02:12,516 Speaker 2: camera and lighting together essentially. And so in our world 35 00:02:12,516 --> 00:02:15,756 Speaker 2: and animation, we split that what is traditionally one role 36 00:02:15,796 --> 00:02:18,116 Speaker 2: in live action to two roles, and so we have 37 00:02:18,156 --> 00:02:20,356 Speaker 2: a director of photography for camera and a director of 38 00:02:20,356 --> 00:02:21,396 Speaker 2: photography for lighting. 39 00:02:21,916 --> 00:02:23,516 Speaker 1: And just to be clear, I mean camera is a 40 00:02:23,556 --> 00:02:27,356 Speaker 1: metaphor in this instance, right, like just so I'm thinking 41 00:02:27,396 --> 00:02:29,996 Speaker 1: about it, right, there is a camera, right. 42 00:02:30,556 --> 00:02:33,276 Speaker 2: There is a virtual camera, and so we build a 43 00:02:33,356 --> 00:02:36,196 Speaker 2: virtual three dimensional world, and we actually have a chunk 44 00:02:36,236 --> 00:02:38,836 Speaker 2: of code that is our camera that mimics a lot 45 00:02:38,836 --> 00:02:44,196 Speaker 2: of things that a real life camera does. And as 46 00:02:44,276 --> 00:02:47,236 Speaker 2: time has gone by, in fact that that camera has 47 00:02:47,236 --> 00:02:50,036 Speaker 2: gotten more and more like real life. And we even 48 00:02:50,156 --> 00:02:55,556 Speaker 2: use specific sets of lenses, sometimes modeled after certain companies 49 00:02:55,636 --> 00:02:56,756 Speaker 2: lenses and stuff, and. 50 00:02:56,676 --> 00:02:59,796 Speaker 1: So the lenses are our code basically that generate images 51 00:02:59,836 --> 00:03:02,836 Speaker 1: that look like a picture you take with a certain. 52 00:03:02,636 --> 00:03:05,556 Speaker 2: Actual yes, exactly exactly. 53 00:03:05,156 --> 00:03:09,756 Speaker 1: So similarly than presumably the lighting is sort of similarly 54 00:03:09,876 --> 00:03:12,436 Speaker 1: virtual but modeled on actual lights. 55 00:03:12,556 --> 00:03:17,396 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it's originally it was modeled on a 56 00:03:17,516 --> 00:03:21,116 Speaker 2: version of a light. It wasn't like, oh, this is 57 00:03:21,156 --> 00:03:24,756 Speaker 2: tungsten light, or this is a light bulb that I 58 00:03:24,836 --> 00:03:27,556 Speaker 2: would have in my lamp at home. It was like, 59 00:03:27,796 --> 00:03:29,836 Speaker 2: here's a light. You can do whatever you want with it. 60 00:03:29,956 --> 00:03:31,316 Speaker 2: You can make it as bright as you want, you 61 00:03:31,316 --> 00:03:32,756 Speaker 2: can make it as big as you want, you can 62 00:03:33,436 --> 00:03:35,396 Speaker 2: all kinds of things. And so in those sort of 63 00:03:35,436 --> 00:03:39,476 Speaker 2: early days, it was easy to do things that looked 64 00:03:39,516 --> 00:03:42,716 Speaker 2: sort of wrong visually because we weren't beholden too some 65 00:03:42,796 --> 00:03:45,516 Speaker 2: of the same physics in real life, huh. 66 00:03:46,276 --> 00:03:49,796 Speaker 1: And so it was almost like too much. You had 67 00:03:49,796 --> 00:03:51,916 Speaker 1: too much power, and you could just get crazy with 68 00:03:51,956 --> 00:03:54,596 Speaker 1: the light and was going on, Yeah. 69 00:03:54,436 --> 00:03:55,716 Speaker 2: We had all the power and you had to use 70 00:03:55,756 --> 00:03:56,276 Speaker 2: it wisely. 71 00:03:56,956 --> 00:04:01,836 Speaker 1: Yes, So, I mean, so there's different ways to talk 72 00:04:01,876 --> 00:04:04,596 Speaker 1: about to talk about this, and I want to try 73 00:04:04,636 --> 00:04:06,876 Speaker 1: a few. But one way that I thought might be 74 00:04:06,916 --> 00:04:10,836 Speaker 1: interesting to frame this is to talk to talk about 75 00:04:10,836 --> 00:04:13,356 Speaker 1: the way that the craft really of what you do 76 00:04:13,436 --> 00:04:16,476 Speaker 1: has changed. I know you worked on Turning Red, the 77 00:04:16,516 --> 00:04:19,836 Speaker 1: recent Pixar movie, which, like millions of other people, I 78 00:04:19,876 --> 00:04:22,596 Speaker 1: watched at home during the pandemic with my daughters. So 79 00:04:22,716 --> 00:04:25,716 Speaker 1: thank you for that. Excellent And then you also you 80 00:04:25,756 --> 00:04:28,716 Speaker 1: worked on A Bugs Life in the late nineties, right, 81 00:04:28,756 --> 00:04:31,836 Speaker 1: And so I thought it might be interesting to compare 82 00:04:32,596 --> 00:04:35,036 Speaker 1: A Bugs Life to Turning Red in terms of the 83 00:04:35,116 --> 00:04:38,956 Speaker 1: sort of technology and creativity, right, how you created in 84 00:04:38,996 --> 00:04:41,956 Speaker 1: those different really kind of technological erars. I mean, that's 85 00:04:41,996 --> 00:04:46,476 Speaker 1: a long time in the development of computer generated animation, right. 86 00:04:46,916 --> 00:04:50,596 Speaker 1: I mean one question in that context is what is 87 00:04:50,636 --> 00:04:53,636 Speaker 1: something that you wanted to do when you were making 88 00:04:53,716 --> 00:04:56,916 Speaker 1: A Bugs Life but that you couldn't that now would 89 00:04:56,916 --> 00:04:57,876 Speaker 1: be really easy to do. 90 00:04:58,716 --> 00:05:03,556 Speaker 2: Yeah, probably so many things. When you think about A 91 00:05:03,556 --> 00:05:07,196 Speaker 2: Bugs Life. That was my first film I worked on here, 92 00:05:07,276 --> 00:05:09,396 Speaker 2: and at that time in the world, there there was 93 00:05:09,476 --> 00:05:13,036 Speaker 2: one feature length computer animated film that had ever been released, 94 00:05:13,036 --> 00:05:16,436 Speaker 2: which was Toy Story. A lot of what was happening 95 00:05:16,516 --> 00:05:18,836 Speaker 2: was just being made up of how to make these 96 00:05:18,836 --> 00:05:21,796 Speaker 2: movies and so and it was a very tiny group 97 00:05:21,836 --> 00:05:24,076 Speaker 2: of people just kind of figuring out how to do 98 00:05:24,116 --> 00:05:26,956 Speaker 2: this computer animation thing as a movie. And so, you know, 99 00:05:26,996 --> 00:05:30,676 Speaker 2: back then Pixar was just this tiny little company that 100 00:05:30,796 --> 00:05:33,836 Speaker 2: like nobody knew Pixar made Toy Story, like they saw 101 00:05:34,116 --> 00:05:36,756 Speaker 2: the Disney on it, and like nobody. I used to 102 00:05:36,756 --> 00:05:38,596 Speaker 2: have to say, oh, I do computer animation. I work 103 00:05:38,596 --> 00:05:41,276 Speaker 2: out a place called Pixar. And then around the time 104 00:05:41,356 --> 00:05:43,636 Speaker 2: of maybe finding Nemo, I said that and someone was like, 105 00:05:43,716 --> 00:05:45,476 Speaker 2: we all know what Pixar is. You can stop saying, 106 00:05:48,356 --> 00:05:50,836 Speaker 2: and so it was very cool. But like on A 107 00:05:50,876 --> 00:05:53,556 Speaker 2: Bugs Life, part of the thing is it's this colony 108 00:05:53,556 --> 00:05:55,716 Speaker 2: of ants, and you know what we know of the 109 00:05:55,716 --> 00:05:57,756 Speaker 2: ants is there's a lot of them once you find 110 00:05:57,756 --> 00:06:01,196 Speaker 2: them and where they live. And doing a scene with 111 00:06:01,436 --> 00:06:03,516 Speaker 2: one hundred ants in it back on A Bug's Life 112 00:06:03,556 --> 00:06:05,876 Speaker 2: was a huge, huge deal. We had to write a 113 00:06:05,916 --> 00:06:09,916 Speaker 2: whole chunk of crowd software and figure out really how 114 00:06:09,916 --> 00:06:11,756 Speaker 2: to jam it into the system and get it to 115 00:06:11,876 --> 00:06:15,876 Speaker 2: render and meaning generate the final images, which is when 116 00:06:15,916 --> 00:06:19,516 Speaker 2: the computer is crunching all of the work you've done 117 00:06:19,556 --> 00:06:24,476 Speaker 2: and doing a million calculations to generate just one image, 118 00:06:25,036 --> 00:06:26,956 Speaker 2: and you need twenty four of those images to make 119 00:06:27,036 --> 00:06:29,556 Speaker 2: one second of film. So for a ninety minute film 120 00:06:29,596 --> 00:06:31,876 Speaker 2: you're doing, you can imagine the sort of scope of 121 00:06:31,996 --> 00:06:34,876 Speaker 2: the calculations you're doing. And doing a crowd of one 122 00:06:34,916 --> 00:06:37,156 Speaker 2: hundred was a really big deal. You know, we can 123 00:06:37,436 --> 00:06:40,236 Speaker 2: do crowds much bigger than that. Now we can give 124 00:06:40,276 --> 00:06:43,796 Speaker 2: them all kinds of sort of acting properties. Where on 125 00:06:43,836 --> 00:06:47,436 Speaker 2: a bug's life it really was someone was animating an 126 00:06:47,516 --> 00:06:51,116 Speaker 2: ant and then you could sprinkle that animation across things, 127 00:06:51,356 --> 00:06:53,396 Speaker 2: and then they'd animate another bit and you sprinkle in 128 00:06:53,436 --> 00:06:57,076 Speaker 2: some of the other ones. But like I was giving 129 00:06:57,076 --> 00:06:58,676 Speaker 2: a talk for I do a lot of talks for 130 00:06:58,796 --> 00:07:01,196 Speaker 2: girls to try and keep them interested in math and 131 00:07:01,236 --> 00:07:04,636 Speaker 2: science to get some better numbers in STEM, and I 132 00:07:04,756 --> 00:07:07,556 Speaker 2: pulled some clips from a bug's life, and I was 133 00:07:07,636 --> 00:07:09,516 Speaker 2: going through this whole thing of like, you know, what 134 00:07:09,556 --> 00:07:12,196 Speaker 2: you don't want is for some two ants to be 135 00:07:12,276 --> 00:07:14,276 Speaker 2: doing the same movement, and then you can see in 136 00:07:14,316 --> 00:07:16,316 Speaker 2: the clip I pulled, like three ants are moving their 137 00:07:16,396 --> 00:07:18,636 Speaker 2: arms like this or something. And it was very funny 138 00:07:18,636 --> 00:07:20,676 Speaker 2: because Back then it was really what we were doing 139 00:07:20,756 --> 00:07:23,276 Speaker 2: was very hard, and now it's much easier, and it 140 00:07:23,316 --> 00:07:23,716 Speaker 2: would have. 141 00:07:23,796 --> 00:07:28,156 Speaker 1: Just been too computationally intensive to have all the ants 142 00:07:28,196 --> 00:07:30,676 Speaker 1: doing different things basically, so you sort of cheated by 143 00:07:30,716 --> 00:07:32,236 Speaker 1: like having some of them do the same thing. 144 00:07:32,276 --> 00:07:34,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you did ten little animated bits and 145 00:07:34,876 --> 00:07:37,196 Speaker 2: sprinkled at a crossing, and you thought that's probably enough, 146 00:07:37,876 --> 00:07:40,196 Speaker 2: and we were probably out of time, honestly, you know, 147 00:07:40,316 --> 00:07:42,436 Speaker 2: also and the next. 148 00:07:42,196 --> 00:07:44,876 Speaker 1: Certain level it was enough, right, Like I don't know 149 00:07:44,916 --> 00:07:47,436 Speaker 1: that people watched a Bug's Life and like, oh, that's 150 00:07:47,436 --> 00:07:50,196 Speaker 1: so cheesy. Those two ants are doing the same thing. 151 00:07:50,356 --> 00:07:52,396 Speaker 2: Right, And if we're doing our job right, you're actually 152 00:07:52,436 --> 00:07:54,676 Speaker 2: looking at the characters who are doing the acting, and 153 00:07:55,516 --> 00:07:57,516 Speaker 2: the crowd is the background in a lot of ways. 154 00:07:58,076 --> 00:08:00,596 Speaker 2: But you know, there's this whole thing of back then 155 00:08:00,636 --> 00:08:02,716 Speaker 2: you were you were much closer to some of the 156 00:08:02,836 --> 00:08:04,836 Speaker 2: sort of the guts and the code, and you'd write 157 00:08:04,876 --> 00:08:07,156 Speaker 2: a little code and you'd generate a picture and you'd 158 00:08:07,236 --> 00:08:09,316 Speaker 2: kind of a lot of back and forth. I think 159 00:08:09,316 --> 00:08:11,276 Speaker 2: a lot of the development that's happened over time has 160 00:08:11,316 --> 00:08:13,716 Speaker 2: been to abstract away from that code so that people 161 00:08:13,756 --> 00:08:17,836 Speaker 2: that really are coming from maybe a pure art background, 162 00:08:17,956 --> 00:08:21,596 Speaker 2: or they're somewhat technical but they're really artistically based, could 163 00:08:21,636 --> 00:08:24,436 Speaker 2: still thrive in this area. Now, Pixar is this really 164 00:08:24,436 --> 00:08:26,316 Speaker 2: wonderful place where we have all of these people that 165 00:08:26,396 --> 00:08:29,956 Speaker 2: are really like this wonderful combo of art and technology, 166 00:08:29,996 --> 00:08:32,796 Speaker 2: and some are very technical and some are very artistic, 167 00:08:32,836 --> 00:08:35,316 Speaker 2: and a lot of people are somewhere in between. So 168 00:08:35,396 --> 00:08:38,956 Speaker 2: it makes it kind of accessible to more people in 169 00:08:39,516 --> 00:08:42,396 Speaker 2: a great way, I think. But back in the old days, 170 00:08:42,396 --> 00:08:46,116 Speaker 2: it was definitely it was just a different thing, and 171 00:08:46,156 --> 00:08:48,276 Speaker 2: you were spending a lot of your time kind of 172 00:08:48,556 --> 00:08:52,516 Speaker 2: not in a creative space. Part of it was in 173 00:08:52,556 --> 00:08:54,276 Speaker 2: a just trying to get the computer to do what 174 00:08:54,276 --> 00:08:57,476 Speaker 2: you want to do in a kind of rudimentary way. 175 00:08:57,876 --> 00:09:04,716 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, clearly Pixar movies have gotten more beautiful, right, 176 00:09:05,876 --> 00:09:15,316 Speaker 1: and certainly complex, and so the benefits of technological improvements, 177 00:09:15,356 --> 00:09:17,076 Speaker 1: I mean both. I'm sure a lot of it is 178 00:09:17,236 --> 00:09:19,756 Speaker 1: just processing speed and more's law, but also I'm sure 179 00:09:19,796 --> 00:09:22,316 Speaker 1: also on the sort of software side that you all 180 00:09:22,356 --> 00:09:24,636 Speaker 1: have developed. So it's clear the ways in which it's 181 00:09:24,636 --> 00:09:28,276 Speaker 1: gotten better, right. I'm curious though, In fact, I heard 182 00:09:28,276 --> 00:09:31,116 Speaker 1: in one of the interviews I listened to in preparing 183 00:09:31,156 --> 00:09:34,436 Speaker 1: for this interview, one of your interviews, you mentioned this 184 00:09:34,636 --> 00:09:37,556 Speaker 1: idea that when you get new tools, obviously you gain things, 185 00:09:37,756 --> 00:09:40,756 Speaker 1: but sometimes there are things that you lose as well. 186 00:09:41,196 --> 00:09:44,276 Speaker 1: And so I'm curious when you look back, you know 187 00:09:44,756 --> 00:09:47,196 Speaker 1: too much earlier in your career, when you had fewer 188 00:09:47,236 --> 00:09:52,316 Speaker 1: tools and frankly worse technology, were there things that I 189 00:09:52,356 --> 00:09:54,236 Speaker 1: don't know that you could do better or differently? Are 190 00:09:54,236 --> 00:09:58,956 Speaker 1: there things you miss about that time from a creativity standpoint. 191 00:09:59,076 --> 00:10:03,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. So as an example of things, I'll start 192 00:10:03,876 --> 00:10:06,556 Speaker 2: with the things that we couldn't do and now can. 193 00:10:06,796 --> 00:10:10,596 Speaker 2: So bugs life, I mentioned the crowd, and then when 194 00:10:10,636 --> 00:10:13,916 Speaker 2: we got to Monsters Incorporated, we needed a monster that 195 00:10:13,956 --> 00:10:15,996 Speaker 2: had hair. We couldn't We had no idea how to 196 00:10:15,996 --> 00:10:18,476 Speaker 2: do hair. That was a huge R and D project. 197 00:10:19,036 --> 00:10:20,836 Speaker 2: The next was finding Nemo. We didn't know how to 198 00:10:20,836 --> 00:10:22,996 Speaker 2: do underwater, and so we had to figure out how 199 00:10:22,996 --> 00:10:25,596 Speaker 2: to do underwater and what the elements were, and then 200 00:10:25,636 --> 00:10:28,196 Speaker 2: sort of developed the technology so that instead of just 201 00:10:28,236 --> 00:10:30,996 Speaker 2: in a test shot, all the people across the show 202 00:10:31,116 --> 00:10:35,156 Speaker 2: could could do underwater in this sort of easy way, 203 00:10:35,196 --> 00:10:37,476 Speaker 2: from the most technical person down to the most junior 204 00:10:37,516 --> 00:10:39,716 Speaker 2: that they could still sort of API, so you. 205 00:10:39,676 --> 00:10:41,836 Speaker 1: Didn't just have to sort of render water, you had 206 00:10:41,836 --> 00:10:44,116 Speaker 1: to build kind of a toolkit so that people could 207 00:10:44,396 --> 00:10:45,556 Speaker 1: create in water. 208 00:10:45,956 --> 00:10:47,636 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so that's one of the really fun things 209 00:10:47,716 --> 00:10:50,116 Speaker 2: is you take some we took some live action footage 210 00:10:50,636 --> 00:10:53,516 Speaker 2: of water and tried to recreate it, and then you 211 00:10:53,556 --> 00:10:56,676 Speaker 2: start breaking down all of that messy looks development work 212 00:10:56,716 --> 00:10:58,596 Speaker 2: you did, and it turned out there were five or 213 00:10:58,636 --> 00:11:00,476 Speaker 2: six elements that when you put them together, we can 214 00:11:00,516 --> 00:11:02,196 Speaker 2: make it look like underwater. And then you take each 215 00:11:02,236 --> 00:11:04,356 Speaker 2: of those elements and turn it into a more pathge 216 00:11:04,476 --> 00:11:07,276 Speaker 2: that's right. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's really fun. It's kind 217 00:11:07,276 --> 00:11:08,636 Speaker 2: of scary while you're doing it because you don't know 218 00:11:08,636 --> 00:11:12,036 Speaker 2: if you're ever going to get anywhere good. But and 219 00:11:12,116 --> 00:11:14,676 Speaker 2: so then you go to a movie like The Incredibles 220 00:11:14,836 --> 00:11:17,676 Speaker 2: and the daughter Violet has long hair, and that was 221 00:11:17,716 --> 00:11:20,676 Speaker 2: a completely unsolved problem in computer graphics, and it was 222 00:11:20,716 --> 00:11:22,596 Speaker 2: all the way up kind of to the last minute 223 00:11:23,116 --> 00:11:25,156 Speaker 2: that it wasn't it got solved. 224 00:11:25,396 --> 00:11:27,716 Speaker 1: Uh, she might have had short hair if if somebody 225 00:11:27,716 --> 00:11:28,916 Speaker 1: had something out. 226 00:11:29,156 --> 00:11:30,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is one of the fun things about 227 00:11:30,916 --> 00:11:33,356 Speaker 2: Pixar is sort of if a director says, well, that's 228 00:11:33,356 --> 00:11:35,676 Speaker 2: a story point which is what Bradbird, the director said. 229 00:11:35,716 --> 00:11:39,556 Speaker 2: He's said, well, this is how we're telling the audience 230 00:11:39,596 --> 00:11:42,036 Speaker 2: who Violet is. So she hides behind her long hair 231 00:11:42,076 --> 00:11:44,916 Speaker 2: and it's this big sort of story moment, and he says, 232 00:11:44,956 --> 00:11:47,076 Speaker 2: it's a story point and that is sort of good 233 00:11:47,076 --> 00:11:48,756 Speaker 2: as gold here, and it doesn't mean you spend a 234 00:11:48,756 --> 00:11:50,556 Speaker 2: lot of time talking about whether you're going to do it. 235 00:11:50,556 --> 00:11:52,036 Speaker 2: You just go figure out how to do it. And 236 00:11:52,076 --> 00:11:54,876 Speaker 2: so it's this creativity driving technology and I think this 237 00:11:55,036 --> 00:11:59,716 Speaker 2: really wonderful way and a very fun and scary way. 238 00:11:59,796 --> 00:12:02,756 Speaker 2: But it's like we're doing this. There was quite a 239 00:12:02,756 --> 00:12:07,276 Speaker 2: while where Violet's hair looked like kind of March Simpson's beehive, 240 00:12:07,316 --> 00:12:09,716 Speaker 2: because when the computer doesn't do it right, it does 241 00:12:09,716 --> 00:12:11,956 Speaker 2: something pretty spectacular with hair and cloth, so. 242 00:12:12,036 --> 00:12:12,956 Speaker 1: It goes way wrong. 243 00:12:13,076 --> 00:12:16,156 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. So so those are all things. Those 244 00:12:16,156 --> 00:12:19,196 Speaker 2: are examples of sort of things we literally couldn't do 245 00:12:19,276 --> 00:12:21,876 Speaker 2: that then the movie and the story spirit so that 246 00:12:21,916 --> 00:12:24,716 Speaker 2: we then know how to do it. One of the 247 00:12:24,756 --> 00:12:26,796 Speaker 2: things is there was kind of a push to get 248 00:12:26,836 --> 00:12:30,076 Speaker 2: more and more real life mimicking real life more and more. 249 00:12:30,876 --> 00:12:33,836 Speaker 2: So as we push, say lighting and materials more towards 250 00:12:33,836 --> 00:12:37,756 Speaker 2: what sort of real life light responses. Say, suddenly, what 251 00:12:37,876 --> 00:12:39,916 Speaker 2: started to happen is that we could get to something 252 00:12:39,956 --> 00:12:42,756 Speaker 2: that looked better much faster. So you can start to 253 00:12:42,756 --> 00:12:45,156 Speaker 2: put the sun in. In the olden days, we'd put 254 00:12:45,156 --> 00:12:46,916 Speaker 2: the sun in and then you'd put another light that 255 00:12:47,036 --> 00:12:48,876 Speaker 2: was the light bouncing off the ground, and you put 256 00:12:48,916 --> 00:12:50,876 Speaker 2: another light in that the light coming from the sky, 257 00:12:50,956 --> 00:12:53,596 Speaker 2: a bounce light, a fill light, a key light. And 258 00:12:53,636 --> 00:12:55,156 Speaker 2: now what we could do is you put the sun 259 00:12:55,196 --> 00:12:57,516 Speaker 2: in and the computer is calculating how that light is 260 00:12:57,556 --> 00:12:59,436 Speaker 2: bouncing around, and then you can start aug. 261 00:12:59,596 --> 00:13:02,196 Speaker 1: The computer is just figuring out what the world would 262 00:13:02,196 --> 00:13:03,636 Speaker 1: look like if the sun were in that. 263 00:13:03,556 --> 00:13:04,956 Speaker 2: Spot in the stit if the sun were in that 264 00:13:04,996 --> 00:13:07,596 Speaker 2: spot and the light was bouncing off of things. And 265 00:13:07,676 --> 00:13:10,196 Speaker 2: these materials are more real life than they were before. 266 00:13:10,196 --> 00:13:13,276 Speaker 2: They have a better material response, and like, oh, doesn't 267 00:13:13,316 --> 00:13:15,156 Speaker 2: that look nice? It used to take me longer to 268 00:13:15,236 --> 00:13:17,476 Speaker 2: get to something that looked nice like that, And there's 269 00:13:17,516 --> 00:13:19,756 Speaker 2: complexity to it that we just couldn't get before. So 270 00:13:19,916 --> 00:13:24,076 Speaker 2: isn't that lovely? And so all of that is fantastic 271 00:13:25,036 --> 00:13:29,316 Speaker 2: until you want to do something that is maybe not 272 00:13:29,396 --> 00:13:32,316 Speaker 2: real life, say you want to stylize it, or even 273 00:13:32,396 --> 00:13:35,036 Speaker 2: say the director wants you to get the shadow off 274 00:13:35,036 --> 00:13:38,836 Speaker 2: the face. Suddenly that you can't do that anymore because 275 00:13:38,876 --> 00:13:41,436 Speaker 2: as you push more and more towards real life, those 276 00:13:41,476 --> 00:13:43,916 Speaker 2: are things you can't do very well in real life. 277 00:13:45,236 --> 00:13:49,196 Speaker 1: And so and you can't and because you've built essentially 278 00:13:50,116 --> 00:13:53,036 Speaker 1: a piece of software where you've said make it real life, 279 00:13:53,676 --> 00:13:55,396 Speaker 1: the software is like, no, you can't take the light 280 00:13:55,436 --> 00:13:57,436 Speaker 1: off the face because I'm making it real life and 281 00:13:57,476 --> 00:13:59,316 Speaker 1: there would be light on their face in real life. 282 00:13:59,516 --> 00:14:03,076 Speaker 2: Yeah. And so suddenly it was really funny. I'm talking 283 00:14:03,116 --> 00:14:06,676 Speaker 2: to one of the sort of scientific engineering people who's 284 00:14:06,796 --> 00:14:11,236 Speaker 2: who's engineering the system, and he's really brilliant guy, and 285 00:14:11,276 --> 00:14:13,156 Speaker 2: I said, well, what if the director asked me to 286 00:14:13,196 --> 00:14:15,236 Speaker 2: take a reflection off of something or move a shadow 287 00:14:15,276 --> 00:14:17,156 Speaker 2: like that stuff we do all the time for the 288 00:14:17,196 --> 00:14:20,476 Speaker 2: storytelling of it. And he said, oh, you just tell 289 00:14:20,476 --> 00:14:23,396 Speaker 2: the director they can't do that. And you know it 290 00:14:23,596 --> 00:14:26,156 Speaker 2: is I don't know what it's like anywhere else, but 291 00:14:26,196 --> 00:14:28,916 Speaker 2: you don't really usually tell the director they can't do something, 292 00:14:28,956 --> 00:14:32,116 Speaker 2: and especially not because we took that capability away, you know, 293 00:14:32,196 --> 00:14:34,156 Speaker 2: like it was really hard, and he was coming from 294 00:14:34,156 --> 00:14:36,876 Speaker 2: this purist he doesn't ever talk to the director. He's 295 00:14:36,916 --> 00:14:38,956 Speaker 2: coming from this purists, like this is what the real 296 00:14:38,996 --> 00:14:41,956 Speaker 2: world does. So there was sort of this time period 297 00:14:41,956 --> 00:14:45,076 Speaker 2: where as they're getting the system up and running, the 298 00:14:45,076 --> 00:14:47,036 Speaker 2: thing is they'd say, well, you could do that, but 299 00:14:47,116 --> 00:14:49,276 Speaker 2: like it's going to slow everything down, and there were 300 00:14:49,276 --> 00:14:51,916 Speaker 2: so many more calculations happening that slowing it down felt 301 00:14:51,916 --> 00:14:53,516 Speaker 2: really like the ideal world. 302 00:14:53,596 --> 00:14:57,036 Speaker 1: And people are like spending all days solving optimization problems, right, 303 00:14:57,076 --> 00:14:59,476 Speaker 1: trying to speed it up so that the ants aren't 304 00:14:59,516 --> 00:15:01,636 Speaker 1: all doing the same thing in the background or whatever. 305 00:15:01,716 --> 00:15:03,636 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and they're like, why do you idiots need 306 00:15:03,636 --> 00:15:05,436 Speaker 2: to move a shadow that doesn't happen in real life, 307 00:15:05,476 --> 00:15:07,756 Speaker 2: you know sort of thing, and so yah. So the 308 00:15:07,876 --> 00:15:10,276 Speaker 2: interesting thing that's had that sort of an era, And 309 00:15:10,316 --> 00:15:13,196 Speaker 2: then the interesting thing that happened is now we're in 310 00:15:13,196 --> 00:15:15,916 Speaker 2: an era where we're getting some of both I think 311 00:15:15,956 --> 00:15:19,876 Speaker 2: where you get this sort of harness the power of 312 00:15:19,916 --> 00:15:21,836 Speaker 2: the computer in a lot of ways where it's mimicking 313 00:15:21,876 --> 00:15:24,836 Speaker 2: real life, but now we have more ability to kind 314 00:15:24,836 --> 00:15:27,596 Speaker 2: of break out into that. And I think that's. 315 00:15:27,316 --> 00:15:29,996 Speaker 1: Because in terms of realism versus kind of. 316 00:15:30,156 --> 00:15:34,516 Speaker 2: Just scilistic flavor and stylization and what a director wants 317 00:15:34,636 --> 00:15:36,796 Speaker 2: and sort of guiding the audience in lighting. We spent 318 00:15:36,876 --> 00:15:38,716 Speaker 2: a lot of time guiding the audience's eyes so that 319 00:15:39,476 --> 00:15:42,036 Speaker 2: they're looking at the right thing. You imagine a film 320 00:15:42,116 --> 00:15:44,556 Speaker 2: like Wally where there's no dialogue for the first thirty 321 00:15:44,596 --> 00:15:47,316 Speaker 2: minutes if you're distracted bold. 322 00:15:47,716 --> 00:15:49,756 Speaker 1: Old I couldn't believe it what I thought. 323 00:15:49,956 --> 00:15:51,476 Speaker 2: It was very scary. When we were working on it. 324 00:15:51,516 --> 00:15:53,796 Speaker 2: We're like, oh, it's going to go see this movie. 325 00:15:53,996 --> 00:15:55,636 Speaker 2: But you know, if we leave some shiny thing off 326 00:15:55,676 --> 00:15:57,276 Speaker 2: in the corner and you're looking over there, you might 327 00:15:57,316 --> 00:16:00,116 Speaker 2: miss an entire chunk of the setup of the movie 328 00:16:00,156 --> 00:16:02,876 Speaker 2: because that was all visual storytelling for thirty minutes and 329 00:16:02,956 --> 00:16:07,276 Speaker 2: so so so there's a lot of just compositional things 330 00:16:07,276 --> 00:16:08,676 Speaker 2: that we need to be able to do that aren't 331 00:16:08,716 --> 00:16:12,036 Speaker 2: necessary early real world things, but we still need to 332 00:16:12,076 --> 00:16:15,396 Speaker 2: do them. And you know, it also kind of invites 333 00:16:15,436 --> 00:16:19,316 Speaker 2: the like we have these conversations sometimes that are like, well, 334 00:16:19,676 --> 00:16:22,036 Speaker 2: why are we making this movie as an animated film, 335 00:16:22,116 --> 00:16:23,836 Speaker 2: Like you could just go make this a live action movie, 336 00:16:23,916 --> 00:16:26,556 Speaker 2: and like why we're not taking advantage of the medium, 337 00:16:26,596 --> 00:16:28,836 Speaker 2: Like they're just different art forms, and like how do 338 00:16:28,876 --> 00:16:31,516 Speaker 2: you make animations sing in an animation like you can 339 00:16:31,596 --> 00:16:33,836 Speaker 2: do anything and so take advantage of it sort of. 340 00:16:33,876 --> 00:16:36,196 Speaker 2: And so so I think we're in a better place 341 00:16:36,236 --> 00:16:39,636 Speaker 2: now in terms of like there's all this like visual 342 00:16:39,676 --> 00:16:42,276 Speaker 2: gain and speed gains by mimicking some of real life, 343 00:16:42,276 --> 00:16:44,836 Speaker 2: but we've started to roll back in a lot of 344 00:16:44,876 --> 00:16:48,796 Speaker 2: the ability to sort of maneuver it artistically too. We're 345 00:16:48,796 --> 00:16:50,916 Speaker 2: not I don't know that we're totally there. Sometimes it's 346 00:16:50,916 --> 00:16:53,316 Speaker 2: still really hard, but I think we're getting to a 347 00:16:53,316 --> 00:16:55,116 Speaker 2: place that at least makes me happy. It might not 348 00:16:55,156 --> 00:16:58,956 Speaker 2: make that engineer happy at all, but it makes me happy. 349 00:16:58,996 --> 00:17:01,596 Speaker 1: So well, well that's the like you're telling the sort 350 00:17:01,636 --> 00:17:05,436 Speaker 1: of Goldilocks story where like at first just you were 351 00:17:05,476 --> 00:17:08,516 Speaker 1: limited by computing power and the lack of sophistication of 352 00:17:08,516 --> 00:17:10,156 Speaker 1: the suffware because we're just figuring ou how to do this, 353 00:17:10,196 --> 00:17:11,636 Speaker 1: And then there was a moment when you had sort 354 00:17:11,676 --> 00:17:15,996 Speaker 1: of gone too far into just mimicking reality. And now 355 00:17:16,036 --> 00:17:18,156 Speaker 1: you're in this sort of just right phase. 356 00:17:18,076 --> 00:17:20,556 Speaker 2: Although you know it's never going to be just right, yeah, 357 00:17:20,556 --> 00:17:22,796 Speaker 2: because you're always I mean, I'm sitting on a movie 358 00:17:22,836 --> 00:17:25,036 Speaker 2: right now where it's like, how on earth are we 359 00:17:25,116 --> 00:17:27,916 Speaker 2: going to do that? Like it's not clear, and our 360 00:17:27,956 --> 00:17:29,676 Speaker 2: system isn't made to do that. So what are we 361 00:17:29,756 --> 00:17:31,756 Speaker 2: going to do? You know? And so well, let's talk 362 00:17:31,756 --> 00:17:32,876 Speaker 2: about this like this. 363 00:17:33,036 --> 00:17:36,036 Speaker 1: So the sort of frontier questions that you're bringing up, 364 00:17:36,196 --> 00:17:37,716 Speaker 1: First of all, can you talk about the movie that 365 00:17:37,716 --> 00:17:38,276 Speaker 1: you're working on? 366 00:17:38,476 --> 00:17:40,036 Speaker 2: I can't. It's totally secret. 367 00:17:40,236 --> 00:17:43,956 Speaker 1: I love secret. So you're working on a secret Pixar movie. Yeah, Like, 368 00:17:43,996 --> 00:17:46,556 Speaker 1: what's the thing that you're working on right now that 369 00:17:46,596 --> 00:17:47,756 Speaker 1: you haven't figured out. 370 00:17:48,236 --> 00:17:51,116 Speaker 2: In a general way? So there's this great thing happening 371 00:17:51,796 --> 00:17:54,276 Speaker 2: within computer animation right now, I would say, which is 372 00:17:54,356 --> 00:17:57,196 Speaker 2: the original Spider Verse came out. 373 00:17:58,156 --> 00:17:59,796 Speaker 1: The Spider Verse that came out a couple of years ago. 374 00:17:59,916 --> 00:18:01,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was loved it, respectfully. 375 00:18:01,876 --> 00:18:04,036 Speaker 1: I know it's not a Pixar movie. Blew my mind. 376 00:18:04,356 --> 00:18:06,356 Speaker 1: I loved the New one. Went to the New One 377 00:18:06,396 --> 00:18:08,716 Speaker 1: a couple of years, a couple of weeks ago at 378 00:18:08,716 --> 00:18:10,276 Speaker 1: the theater in the old school style. 379 00:18:10,916 --> 00:18:17,116 Speaker 2: Awesome, like high art right, totally Yeah, incredible, incredible movie. 380 00:18:17,276 --> 00:18:19,556 Speaker 2: And I think both of those movies, the first one 381 00:18:19,556 --> 00:18:24,356 Speaker 2: and now the second one again really inspired almost the 382 00:18:24,516 --> 00:18:25,356 Speaker 2: entire industry. 383 00:18:25,716 --> 00:18:26,036 Speaker 1: Huh. 384 00:18:26,076 --> 00:18:27,396 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even know if it's almost I 385 00:18:27,436 --> 00:18:29,716 Speaker 2: think inspired the entire industry because as you look at 386 00:18:29,716 --> 00:18:34,036 Speaker 2: the films that have come out since then, everybody, there's 387 00:18:34,156 --> 00:18:37,516 Speaker 2: so many instances of stylization that were not there before. 388 00:18:37,836 --> 00:18:39,436 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean, let's be clear when you say 389 00:18:39,476 --> 00:18:42,276 Speaker 1: stylization for people who haven't seen the Spider Verse movies. Yeah, 390 00:18:42,316 --> 00:18:46,276 Speaker 1: like they don't look anything like real life. They're not 391 00:18:46,316 --> 00:18:48,716 Speaker 1: trying to look like real life. They look really interesting. 392 00:18:48,756 --> 00:18:51,036 Speaker 1: They look kind of like comic books. In the case 393 00:18:51,076 --> 00:18:53,636 Speaker 1: of the new movie, it's like pastiche. Sometimes there's like 394 00:18:53,676 --> 00:18:56,396 Speaker 1: six different styles on the screen and it sort of 395 00:18:56,436 --> 00:18:58,636 Speaker 1: goes to this thing you're talking about about moving away 396 00:18:58,676 --> 00:19:02,996 Speaker 1: from just trying to represent reality, so go on, sorry. 397 00:19:02,876 --> 00:19:07,236 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, So it's that first one, I think, 398 00:19:07,316 --> 00:19:12,796 Speaker 2: because it was like anything anyone had seen in the 399 00:19:12,876 --> 00:19:15,436 Speaker 2: same way. Maybe that Toy Story was when I went 400 00:19:15,476 --> 00:19:17,076 Speaker 2: and saw it when I was in college of just 401 00:19:17,116 --> 00:19:19,556 Speaker 2: like what is this and this is amazing? And then 402 00:19:19,636 --> 00:19:22,236 Speaker 2: Spider Verse did that, and I'm not sure any of 403 00:19:22,316 --> 00:19:26,196 Speaker 2: us at that point realized that we could do something 404 00:19:26,236 --> 00:19:28,356 Speaker 2: that was that different and that new, and so it 405 00:19:28,436 --> 00:19:31,476 Speaker 2: was really exciting because we're working in this art form 406 00:19:32,036 --> 00:19:36,916 Speaker 2: and suddenly it's like, uh, Oh, that's amazing, someone did that. 407 00:19:37,116 --> 00:19:39,196 Speaker 2: We want to do that, you know, and so and 408 00:19:39,356 --> 00:19:39,996 Speaker 2: was part. 409 00:19:39,796 --> 00:19:41,996 Speaker 1: Of it that like, oh, we're Pixar, and there's this 410 00:19:42,076 --> 00:19:45,276 Speaker 1: thing that a Pixar movie is, and it's a particular thing, 411 00:19:45,596 --> 00:19:50,196 Speaker 1: you know. I feel like, in a much smaller way, 412 00:19:50,276 --> 00:19:52,716 Speaker 1: I have felt that on smaller projects I've worked on, 413 00:19:52,716 --> 00:19:55,156 Speaker 1: where you sort of have this kind of internal grammar 414 00:19:55,196 --> 00:19:57,556 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this is a whatever, this is a 415 00:19:57,596 --> 00:20:01,116 Speaker 1: plant money story, but nobody who's listening actually cares or 416 00:20:01,156 --> 00:20:03,676 Speaker 1: even knows. Right, It's like you're just creating these rules 417 00:20:03,956 --> 00:20:06,316 Speaker 1: that are binding yourself for no reason, right. 418 00:20:07,196 --> 00:20:10,156 Speaker 2: I think the thing is that when I got onto 419 00:20:10,236 --> 00:20:14,156 Speaker 2: Turning Read, the director was like the word in the 420 00:20:14,156 --> 00:20:16,116 Speaker 2: hallway before I got on, It was the director wanted 421 00:20:16,116 --> 00:20:18,036 Speaker 2: to do a different look, which was exciting to everyone 422 00:20:18,076 --> 00:20:20,836 Speaker 2: here because it's just doing different things is always exciting. 423 00:20:20,956 --> 00:20:24,956 Speaker 2: And she's at the time was twenty nine maybe, and 424 00:20:25,036 --> 00:20:27,756 Speaker 2: so younger than some of the sort of old school 425 00:20:27,756 --> 00:20:29,836 Speaker 2: directors that have been here, and so coming in with 426 00:20:29,916 --> 00:20:32,396 Speaker 2: just sort of different references, and she grew up with 427 00:20:32,476 --> 00:20:35,036 Speaker 2: anime and so was really inspired by anime and wanted 428 00:20:35,076 --> 00:20:38,436 Speaker 2: it to have some reference to that and so there's okay, 429 00:20:38,436 --> 00:20:41,876 Speaker 2: it's going to have a different look, and she said, 430 00:20:42,076 --> 00:20:43,716 Speaker 2: I don't want it to have the Pixar look. And 431 00:20:43,796 --> 00:20:47,076 Speaker 2: I had to ad this moment of like, what do 432 00:20:47,076 --> 00:20:48,996 Speaker 2: you mean the Pixar look. We try so hard on 433 00:20:49,036 --> 00:20:50,996 Speaker 2: every film to do whatever's right for the film, and 434 00:20:51,036 --> 00:20:53,276 Speaker 2: then you sort of go, well, yeah, I mean, I 435 00:20:53,316 --> 00:20:55,076 Speaker 2: guess we do sort of have a Pixar look, but 436 00:20:55,076 --> 00:20:57,436 Speaker 2: it's not intentional. It's sort of like we all just 437 00:20:57,516 --> 00:21:00,636 Speaker 2: grew up here figuring out how to make movies together 438 00:21:01,076 --> 00:21:03,996 Speaker 2: a lot in this sort of core group of folks, 439 00:21:04,036 --> 00:21:07,236 Speaker 2: and we use our own rendering system and half our 440 00:21:07,356 --> 00:21:10,316 Speaker 2: software is our own software, and so like there's something 441 00:21:10,356 --> 00:21:12,556 Speaker 2: that comes from that. And I think we were just 442 00:21:12,636 --> 00:21:15,956 Speaker 2: always pushing to be able to do sort of bigger 443 00:21:15,996 --> 00:21:18,756 Speaker 2: and better things depending on whatever the story was, and 444 00:21:18,836 --> 00:21:23,676 Speaker 2: not so much thinking about stylizing stuff. And so here's 445 00:21:23,676 --> 00:21:25,396 Speaker 2: this director saying I want to, I want to, I 446 00:21:25,396 --> 00:21:26,916 Speaker 2: don't want to do the Pixar look, and I'm like, 447 00:21:26,996 --> 00:21:28,596 Speaker 2: oh my god, I don't even know what the Pixar 448 00:21:28,636 --> 00:21:30,236 Speaker 2: look is. Let me think about this. I've been in 449 00:21:30,276 --> 00:21:31,596 Speaker 2: the middle of it for so long that I didn't 450 00:21:31,596 --> 00:21:35,596 Speaker 2: even realize it sort of and so kind of looking 451 00:21:35,636 --> 00:21:39,796 Speaker 2: at how that look comes about and then what do 452 00:21:39,876 --> 00:21:41,836 Speaker 2: you need to do to break out of that and 453 00:21:41,876 --> 00:21:44,556 Speaker 2: what It was this really interesting thing for me since 454 00:21:44,556 --> 00:21:46,796 Speaker 2: I've been here so long, of like what are the 455 00:21:46,916 --> 00:21:50,716 Speaker 2: rules that you're following that you don't even realize are 456 00:21:50,756 --> 00:21:52,956 Speaker 2: out of date because some of them were based on 457 00:21:53,396 --> 00:21:57,156 Speaker 2: old technology, Like, oh, we never do that, and then. 458 00:21:58,316 --> 00:22:01,956 Speaker 1: We never do that because you had because previously the 459 00:22:02,036 --> 00:22:03,916 Speaker 1: technology had not allowed that. 460 00:22:03,996 --> 00:22:07,156 Speaker 2: Yeah, it looked terrible, but maybe now with the technology 461 00:22:07,156 --> 00:22:09,836 Speaker 2: it wouldn't look terrible. Or I'll give example. So I 462 00:22:09,876 --> 00:22:12,036 Speaker 2: was doing some looks tests early on before a lot 463 00:22:12,076 --> 00:22:14,396 Speaker 2: of people were on, and we were trying to get 464 00:22:15,076 --> 00:22:17,756 Speaker 2: this this really this the lighting look in there, the 465 00:22:17,916 --> 00:22:20,996 Speaker 2: sort of if you think about light to dark, there's 466 00:22:21,076 --> 00:22:23,116 Speaker 2: not a lot of dark stuff in that movie. In 467 00:22:23,156 --> 00:22:26,596 Speaker 2: the first act of it or something. It's very the 468 00:22:26,676 --> 00:22:29,236 Speaker 2: mids are very lifted kind of. So I'm trying to 469 00:22:29,236 --> 00:22:31,076 Speaker 2: figure out how to do that without doing a lot 470 00:22:31,076 --> 00:22:35,196 Speaker 2: of like you know, photoshop type work on it. 471 00:22:36,156 --> 00:22:39,116 Speaker 1: And that was like a particular creative sort of storytelling 472 00:22:39,196 --> 00:22:41,276 Speaker 1: desire is to have the color palette be in a 473 00:22:41,276 --> 00:22:41,836 Speaker 1: certain way. 474 00:22:42,316 --> 00:22:45,996 Speaker 2: Yeah, to mimic sort of the main character May's sort 475 00:22:46,036 --> 00:22:49,996 Speaker 2: of world, and then it changing to be much more saturated, 476 00:22:50,116 --> 00:22:53,196 Speaker 2: much more contrasting, and getting kind of crazy when kind of. 477 00:22:53,276 --> 00:22:56,716 Speaker 1: Like Kansas being black and white, but in a more 478 00:22:56,756 --> 00:22:57,556 Speaker 1: subtle way. Yeah. 479 00:22:57,676 --> 00:23:01,996 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I I did some stuff, but the 480 00:23:01,996 --> 00:23:03,956 Speaker 2: way I was doing it was like not working. I'm 481 00:23:03,956 --> 00:23:05,756 Speaker 2: doing ten other things while I'm doing it. And then 482 00:23:05,836 --> 00:23:09,636 Speaker 2: we got our director of photography for lighting. He comes 483 00:23:09,636 --> 00:23:12,636 Speaker 2: on and he sits down, he's doing some tests and 484 00:23:12,636 --> 00:23:14,716 Speaker 2: he shows something. I was like, that's awesome. What did 485 00:23:14,756 --> 00:23:16,556 Speaker 2: you do. He's like, oh, I put a light from 486 00:23:16,636 --> 00:23:20,516 Speaker 2: camera on everything. So a light blasting straight into camera, 487 00:23:20,556 --> 00:23:24,276 Speaker 2: which we would never do because it looks flat, it 488 00:23:24,316 --> 00:23:26,596 Speaker 2: flattens everything out, looks kind of stupid. But in this 489 00:23:26,676 --> 00:23:29,836 Speaker 2: world and in this way, he totally made it work. 490 00:23:29,876 --> 00:23:31,636 Speaker 2: And it isn't how we ended up doing it for 491 00:23:31,676 --> 00:23:33,556 Speaker 2: the movie, but it was that was the moment where 492 00:23:33,596 --> 00:23:35,756 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I think I'm going to have 493 00:23:35,756 --> 00:23:38,036 Speaker 2: to let go much more than I thought I did 494 00:23:38,156 --> 00:23:40,436 Speaker 2: in order to like really find the ways that we 495 00:23:40,436 --> 00:23:41,996 Speaker 2: can push stuff to find a new look. 496 00:23:42,876 --> 00:23:44,836 Speaker 1: As you realize that in fact, there were a bunch 497 00:23:44,876 --> 00:23:46,876 Speaker 1: of things that you did the same without thinking about 498 00:23:46,916 --> 00:23:48,316 Speaker 1: and there were other ways to do it that didn't 499 00:23:48,316 --> 00:23:49,556 Speaker 1: even cross one hundred. 500 00:23:49,276 --> 00:23:51,836 Speaker 2: Percent, And so then it was that really was the 501 00:23:51,876 --> 00:23:54,996 Speaker 2: sort of pivotal moment where I then was like, Okay, 502 00:23:55,276 --> 00:23:57,476 Speaker 2: anytime your reaction is like, yeah, we don't do it 503 00:23:57,476 --> 00:24:00,716 Speaker 2: that way, or there's good reason, you have to reconsider 504 00:24:00,796 --> 00:24:04,916 Speaker 2: that and decide whether that's actually still relevant. Ory just 505 00:24:05,076 --> 00:24:06,676 Speaker 2: it's just sort of this long held thing. 506 00:24:09,716 --> 00:24:12,996 Speaker 1: In a minute, with video games getting better and movies 507 00:24:13,116 --> 00:24:15,556 Speaker 1: using more and more CGI, are we heading to a 508 00:24:15,596 --> 00:24:27,276 Speaker 1: world where more or less everything is computer animation? Now 509 00:24:27,436 --> 00:24:29,916 Speaker 1: back to the show. You know, you've talked about all 510 00:24:29,956 --> 00:24:35,516 Speaker 1: these ways over time in which you, Slash Pixar have 511 00:24:35,676 --> 00:24:39,596 Speaker 1: solved technological problems to allow you to do more things creatively. 512 00:24:40,076 --> 00:24:44,596 Speaker 1: And I'm curious now about that particular dynamic, whether it 513 00:24:44,676 --> 00:24:47,516 Speaker 1: is for purposes of stylization or for purposes of just 514 00:24:48,276 --> 00:24:52,276 Speaker 1: going into a world where computer animated films have not gone. 515 00:24:52,436 --> 00:24:57,476 Speaker 1: Are there things where you all you Pixar are trying 516 00:24:57,516 --> 00:25:00,716 Speaker 1: to figure out to solve technological problems so that you 517 00:25:00,796 --> 00:25:03,116 Speaker 1: can do new creative things. 518 00:25:04,316 --> 00:25:06,596 Speaker 2: You know, right now we have conversations about like, well, 519 00:25:07,356 --> 00:25:09,076 Speaker 2: that's a lot of hair, that's going to be hard 520 00:25:09,236 --> 00:25:12,636 Speaker 2: general final image, or oh glass is expensive, or that 521 00:25:12,756 --> 00:25:17,036 Speaker 2: translucent thing could be hard, or that animation is going 522 00:25:17,116 --> 00:25:21,556 Speaker 2: to be really tricky, like Hank the octopus in Finding 523 00:25:21,556 --> 00:25:24,836 Speaker 2: Dory very hard. Eight Tentacles turns out very hard doing 524 00:25:25,596 --> 00:25:29,836 Speaker 2: a room challenge. Yeah, and so so there's these things 525 00:25:29,836 --> 00:25:32,196 Speaker 2: where they're like, it's not like you couldn't do it, 526 00:25:32,236 --> 00:25:34,476 Speaker 2: but they're annoying to do, so you don't see them 527 00:25:34,556 --> 00:25:35,756 Speaker 2: very often, and so at a. 528 00:25:35,676 --> 00:25:38,316 Speaker 1: Certain and expensive basically. 529 00:25:38,316 --> 00:25:41,036 Speaker 2: And kind of tedious and like. And so at some 530 00:25:41,116 --> 00:25:44,956 Speaker 2: point a lot of that hopefully is not tedious anymore, 531 00:25:45,036 --> 00:25:49,036 Speaker 2: and so that opens up different stories in different worlds, 532 00:25:49,316 --> 00:25:52,476 Speaker 2: and maybe it opens up that, you know, like now 533 00:25:52,556 --> 00:25:55,116 Speaker 2: everyone has a camera, they could shoot anyone can shoot videos. 534 00:25:55,156 --> 00:25:58,596 Speaker 2: I mean TikTok is proof of that, right, maybe anyone 535 00:25:58,596 --> 00:26:02,396 Speaker 2: can make you know, animated films in a totally different way. 536 00:26:03,516 --> 00:26:06,116 Speaker 2: I don't know. You still have to tell great stories 537 00:26:06,156 --> 00:26:09,716 Speaker 2: and so that's that's still going to always be the 538 00:26:09,756 --> 00:26:14,956 Speaker 2: main building block of it. But faster and easier is 539 00:26:15,036 --> 00:26:18,156 Speaker 2: always the thing we are always sort of going after that. 540 00:26:19,636 --> 00:26:21,956 Speaker 1: So that's this sort of there's this sort of bottom 541 00:26:22,076 --> 00:26:27,676 Speaker 1: up convergence, right, I mean, there's another convergence that's interesting 542 00:26:27,716 --> 00:26:31,236 Speaker 1: to me when you're talking about, like, you know, this 543 00:26:31,316 --> 00:26:34,956 Speaker 1: sort of arc of first trying to make films that 544 00:26:34,996 --> 00:26:36,916 Speaker 1: look more like reality and saying, oh wait, wait, that's 545 00:26:36,956 --> 00:26:39,516 Speaker 1: not actually the business we're in. Let's make things that 546 00:26:39,556 --> 00:26:42,076 Speaker 1: are you know, beautiful and interesting and look like nothing 547 00:26:42,116 --> 00:26:47,356 Speaker 1: you've ever seen. I feel like, to some significant degree, 548 00:26:48,076 --> 00:26:50,716 Speaker 1: over the decades you've been working at Pixar, live action 549 00:26:50,876 --> 00:26:54,436 Speaker 1: films have started to look more like animated films, right Like, 550 00:26:54,716 --> 00:26:56,876 Speaker 1: I mean, if you think of Marvel, which is probably 551 00:26:56,876 --> 00:26:59,356 Speaker 1: the most important thing to happen in movies, at least 552 00:26:59,356 --> 00:27:01,836 Speaker 1: on a commercial level and in some ways on a 553 00:27:01,836 --> 00:27:05,316 Speaker 1: creative level over the last whatever ten years, Like you know, 554 00:27:05,796 --> 00:27:10,436 Speaker 1: there's like whatever, a talking raccoon and a person, right Like, 555 00:27:10,796 --> 00:27:13,676 Speaker 1: they are not going for reality and they are live 556 00:27:13,716 --> 00:27:18,596 Speaker 1: action films, but they are you know, CGI is basically 557 00:27:18,596 --> 00:27:21,716 Speaker 1: computer animation, and so right like, maybe there is some 558 00:27:21,756 --> 00:27:25,276 Speaker 1: convergence where it's everything's made with a computer. So whether 559 00:27:25,316 --> 00:27:28,836 Speaker 1: we're calling it animation or like live action, like Marvel 560 00:27:28,836 --> 00:27:31,396 Speaker 1: movies aren't exactly live action, right It's like a dude 561 00:27:31,436 --> 00:27:33,476 Speaker 1: doing motion capture in front of a green screen. 562 00:27:33,836 --> 00:27:38,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's everything is overlapping and that, you know, 563 00:27:38,916 --> 00:27:41,036 Speaker 2: and a lot of the live action stuff they're using 564 00:27:42,316 --> 00:27:43,996 Speaker 2: all of the same stuff we do. There is no 565 00:27:44,076 --> 00:27:46,836 Speaker 2: difference except that they're shooting some live action plates that 566 00:27:46,876 --> 00:27:48,756 Speaker 2: they're matching it to, you know, in a lot of ways, 567 00:27:48,836 --> 00:27:50,716 Speaker 2: or they're doing virtual production. 568 00:27:51,076 --> 00:27:56,116 Speaker 1: Avatar maybe even more so, right, Yeah, Avatar is kind 569 00:27:56,116 --> 00:27:58,236 Speaker 1: of a computer animation movie. Yeah. 570 00:27:58,356 --> 00:28:02,396 Speaker 2: Yeah. And so you think about things like the Academy Awards, 571 00:28:02,396 --> 00:28:07,636 Speaker 2: the animation category that's getting hazier and hazier, like what 572 00:28:07,756 --> 00:28:11,636 Speaker 2: is animation and what is live action? And you know, 573 00:28:11,756 --> 00:28:15,156 Speaker 2: especially with some of the things like live action Lion 574 00:28:15,236 --> 00:28:19,596 Speaker 2: King or Jungle Book or different things like that where 575 00:28:19,596 --> 00:28:22,876 Speaker 2: there is really a huge mix. And you talk about 576 00:28:22,876 --> 00:28:26,756 Speaker 2: games and that same thing and those the visual level 577 00:28:26,796 --> 00:28:30,836 Speaker 2: of games has increased coming towards us. It used to 578 00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:33,596 Speaker 2: always be that we were we would spend a lot 579 00:28:33,636 --> 00:28:35,756 Speaker 2: of time on our renders to make them look beautiful. 580 00:28:35,796 --> 00:28:37,876 Speaker 2: Games had to be so fast that there's no way 581 00:28:37,916 --> 00:28:39,796 Speaker 2: that they could approach sort of the look we had. 582 00:28:39,836 --> 00:28:42,476 Speaker 2: And that's coming together and live actions coming together, and 583 00:28:42,516 --> 00:28:46,396 Speaker 2: so everything's becoming much more possible, I think, on all 584 00:28:46,436 --> 00:28:49,676 Speaker 2: those fronts. And so maybe at some point it all 585 00:28:49,756 --> 00:28:53,516 Speaker 2: is just one one pie that everyone's pulling from. 586 00:28:54,916 --> 00:28:57,196 Speaker 1: Does it make you sad? Is that a sad ending 587 00:28:57,276 --> 00:28:57,516 Speaker 1: for you? 588 00:28:59,276 --> 00:29:02,796 Speaker 2: It's not sad to be able to think about being 589 00:29:02,836 --> 00:29:06,396 Speaker 2: able to work, being able to try anything and have 590 00:29:06,516 --> 00:29:08,276 Speaker 2: no cost to it, so that you could try this, 591 00:29:08,356 --> 00:29:09,996 Speaker 2: you could try that, and try this and throw it 592 00:29:09,996 --> 00:29:12,956 Speaker 2: out and do a different thing and not feel precious 593 00:29:13,036 --> 00:29:15,676 Speaker 2: or worried about it. That's very exciting. 594 00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:21,876 Speaker 1: Uh huh. Yeah, the cost constraint. I mean it's funny. 595 00:29:22,036 --> 00:29:24,396 Speaker 1: The editor of this show was like, yeah, ask about 596 00:29:24,436 --> 00:29:26,476 Speaker 1: cost constraints. I was like, no, let's not do cost coinstints. 597 00:29:26,476 --> 00:29:28,356 Speaker 1: So then you've brought it up, so points to her. 598 00:29:29,516 --> 00:29:32,596 Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting, right because there is one of 599 00:29:32,636 --> 00:29:37,196 Speaker 1: the simple and I think underrated things technology does. Maybe 600 00:29:37,236 --> 00:29:41,676 Speaker 1: the fundamental thing is make things cheaper, right, And you're 601 00:29:42,036 --> 00:29:44,236 Speaker 1: talking about that from the creative point of view, Right, 602 00:29:44,276 --> 00:29:47,436 Speaker 1: If it's cheaper to just try seven different things, or 603 00:29:47,516 --> 00:29:49,836 Speaker 1: cheaper to make an octopus or whatever, then you can 604 00:29:49,836 --> 00:29:51,476 Speaker 1: try more stuff and make more stuff. 605 00:29:51,836 --> 00:29:54,236 Speaker 2: Yeah. So on every movie you look at a thing 606 00:29:54,276 --> 00:29:57,396 Speaker 2: and you go, okay, am I going to build a 607 00:29:57,516 --> 00:29:59,916 Speaker 2: system for that that makes it easier to do in 608 00:29:59,956 --> 00:30:01,836 Speaker 2: a bunch of shots or are we just going to 609 00:30:01,956 --> 00:30:03,956 Speaker 2: like kind of force it through, right, and we'll just 610 00:30:04,036 --> 00:30:06,236 Speaker 2: hodgepodge it in every shot to get it through. And 611 00:30:06,316 --> 00:30:08,556 Speaker 2: so in something like if it's a little bit tricky 612 00:30:08,556 --> 00:30:11,276 Speaker 2: and it's intense shots, you're just going to kind of 613 00:30:11,276 --> 00:30:14,476 Speaker 2: make it happen and force it through, you know, kind of. 614 00:30:14,476 --> 00:30:16,876 Speaker 1: If it's water for finding Nemo, you're going to build 615 00:30:16,876 --> 00:30:17,196 Speaker 1: a water. 616 00:30:17,396 --> 00:30:20,156 Speaker 2: You're going to build something that is really usable that 617 00:30:20,196 --> 00:30:23,076 Speaker 2: people can make it look great. And so there's there's 618 00:30:23,156 --> 00:30:27,276 Speaker 2: sort of always that trade off and consideration of how 619 00:30:27,276 --> 00:30:29,836 Speaker 2: you're investing your sort of time and money. 620 00:30:29,876 --> 00:30:33,396 Speaker 1: And Pixar started as a tool company, right, basically a 621 00:30:33,436 --> 00:30:36,396 Speaker 1: hard company, and there's this software render Man that is 622 00:30:36,436 --> 00:30:38,836 Speaker 1: still like there's like a website and you can like 623 00:30:38,916 --> 00:30:41,996 Speaker 1: pay and use the software that picks our users to 624 00:30:42,036 --> 00:30:44,916 Speaker 1: make movies. Right, it is at some level a tools company. 625 00:30:44,836 --> 00:30:46,996 Speaker 2: It is. Yeah, it's we're a funny place in that 626 00:30:47,036 --> 00:30:51,036 Speaker 2: where where we have our own studio tools group that 627 00:30:51,076 --> 00:30:52,996 Speaker 2: write are a bunch of software that we use. We 628 00:30:53,076 --> 00:30:55,556 Speaker 2: have the RenderMan group that writes rendering software that's used 629 00:30:55,556 --> 00:31:01,596 Speaker 2: throughout the industry. We make movies, but we're not totally Hollywood. 630 00:31:01,596 --> 00:31:04,436 Speaker 2: We're not totally a tech company. We're some weird combination 631 00:31:04,516 --> 00:31:06,156 Speaker 2: in between. And then we're in the Bay Area, so 632 00:31:06,196 --> 00:31:08,356 Speaker 2: we're not even like down in Hollywood or down in 633 00:31:08,396 --> 00:31:12,116 Speaker 2: Silicon Valley. And so it's an interesting place that I 634 00:31:12,196 --> 00:31:14,596 Speaker 2: think has bread a lot of interesting things in terms 635 00:31:14,596 --> 00:31:16,956 Speaker 2: of the combination of sort of art and technology here, 636 00:31:17,276 --> 00:31:20,676 Speaker 2: and the interest in driving computer graphics to make our 637 00:31:20,716 --> 00:31:23,996 Speaker 2: movies to suit the story, and then being inspired by 638 00:31:24,156 --> 00:31:27,236 Speaker 2: technology to then change the story to take advantage of it. 639 00:31:27,316 --> 00:31:30,476 Speaker 2: And so there's this really cool kind of feeding back 640 00:31:30,516 --> 00:31:34,116 Speaker 2: and forth and advancement of technology because we don't put 641 00:31:34,156 --> 00:31:37,916 Speaker 2: limits on story in the way you might otherwise. So 642 00:31:38,036 --> 00:31:40,676 Speaker 2: when you know they storyboard a character with long hair 643 00:31:40,716 --> 00:31:42,916 Speaker 2: and we don't know how to do that, we still 644 00:31:43,076 --> 00:31:47,356 Speaker 2: go after it and do it. And that's that's an 645 00:31:47,396 --> 00:31:49,116 Speaker 2: amazing place to be, I think. 646 00:31:49,756 --> 00:31:52,236 Speaker 1: And then you not only have that character presumably in 647 00:31:52,276 --> 00:31:54,756 Speaker 1: that instance, you have now a way that, oh, great, 648 00:31:54,796 --> 00:31:57,036 Speaker 1: people in these worlds we create can now have long hair. 649 00:31:57,076 --> 00:31:58,116 Speaker 1: That's another thing we can do. 650 00:31:58,236 --> 00:32:01,236 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, until we got to Brave, and then long 651 00:32:01,316 --> 00:32:03,636 Speaker 2: curly hair was its whole own problem. We have to 652 00:32:03,636 --> 00:32:05,116 Speaker 2: rewrite the simulator, So. 653 00:32:07,396 --> 00:32:08,956 Speaker 1: Does it have to be curly? 654 00:32:09,236 --> 00:32:10,156 Speaker 2: It's always something. 655 00:32:11,036 --> 00:32:16,996 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in a minute with a lighting 656 00:32:17,116 --> 00:32:31,636 Speaker 1: focused lightning ground. Back to the show. Okay, I'm gonna 657 00:32:31,636 --> 00:32:33,636 Speaker 1: ask you a bunch of questions. Edith said, you listened 658 00:32:33,676 --> 00:32:35,196 Speaker 1: to some episodes of the show, so I don't even 659 00:32:35,196 --> 00:32:38,996 Speaker 1: need to explain that this is the lightning round. 660 00:32:40,196 --> 00:32:40,956 Speaker 2: But I didn't prepare it. 661 00:32:41,036 --> 00:32:44,476 Speaker 1: Also, Okay, there's no way to prepare the best part 662 00:32:44,516 --> 00:32:47,156 Speaker 1: of the show. For that reason, I'll start with an 663 00:32:47,196 --> 00:32:51,516 Speaker 1: easy one that you were totally prepared for. I know 664 00:32:51,596 --> 00:32:54,956 Speaker 1: from listening to some other interviews you've done that you 665 00:32:55,076 --> 00:32:57,876 Speaker 1: have often been the only woman in a room full 666 00:32:57,876 --> 00:33:02,076 Speaker 1: of men at work. What is one tip you'd give 667 00:33:02,116 --> 00:33:05,356 Speaker 1: to somebody who is in that setting, you know, the 668 00:33:05,396 --> 00:33:07,796 Speaker 1: only woman in a room full of men at work. 669 00:33:12,396 --> 00:33:15,796 Speaker 2: I found when I became a director of photography for 670 00:33:15,916 --> 00:33:22,756 Speaker 2: lighting for Wally that I was I was generating my 671 00:33:22,876 --> 00:33:25,676 Speaker 2: own imposter syndrome. So I was getting quieter and quieter 672 00:33:25,676 --> 00:33:27,636 Speaker 2: because I was suddenly in a room with sort of 673 00:33:27,636 --> 00:33:30,036 Speaker 2: a new level of people, and I kept thinking, well, 674 00:33:30,356 --> 00:33:32,556 Speaker 2: would I have known that? Would I have been able 675 00:33:32,556 --> 00:33:35,436 Speaker 2: to answer that? And there was this moment where I 676 00:33:35,516 --> 00:33:40,476 Speaker 2: realized that my boss was particularly outspoken, and he suddenly 677 00:33:40,556 --> 00:33:43,196 Speaker 2: was talking about something about lighting, and I actually knew 678 00:33:43,196 --> 00:33:44,956 Speaker 2: he was wrong, but he was saying it as if 679 00:33:44,996 --> 00:33:47,836 Speaker 2: it was fact, and I sort of suddenly realized that 680 00:33:48,116 --> 00:33:52,836 Speaker 2: just because someone is presenting something as fact doesn't necessarily 681 00:33:52,916 --> 00:33:55,036 Speaker 2: mean that that's what that is, and that I was 682 00:33:55,076 --> 00:33:58,916 Speaker 2: sort of like sidelining myself over something that was completely false. 683 00:33:59,796 --> 00:34:01,476 Speaker 1: So what did you do? What did you do? 684 00:34:02,276 --> 00:34:05,316 Speaker 2: My jaw dropped, and then I spoke up because I 685 00:34:05,356 --> 00:34:08,276 Speaker 2: knew he was wrong, right, And so I was emboldened 686 00:34:08,436 --> 00:34:11,516 Speaker 2: in that way to say, wait, wait, wait, that's that's 687 00:34:11,556 --> 00:34:14,236 Speaker 2: not true, and or I'm sure I probably found some 688 00:34:14,396 --> 00:34:16,716 Speaker 2: nice way to say it, so I wasn't poking the bear. 689 00:34:16,796 --> 00:34:20,556 Speaker 1: But yes, and yeah, yeah, yeah yes. And what's your 690 00:34:20,556 --> 00:34:26,276 Speaker 1: favorite non Pixar movie? Mm hmm, I'm gonna do another one. 691 00:34:26,276 --> 00:34:28,276 Speaker 1: I got a better one. Okay, what's the best lighting 692 00:34:28,316 --> 00:34:30,236 Speaker 1: you've ever seen in a non Pixar movie? 693 00:34:30,676 --> 00:34:40,876 Speaker 2: Oh? Uh, you know what? The original Blade Runner I 694 00:34:40,916 --> 00:34:45,476 Speaker 2: love so so much for many reasons. Lighting is wonderful. 695 00:34:45,876 --> 00:34:48,836 Speaker 2: The newer Blade Runner is fabulous. 696 00:34:49,196 --> 00:34:51,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting when you mentioned Blade Runner, I think 697 00:34:51,996 --> 00:34:57,556 Speaker 1: of the that relationship between live action and animation. And 698 00:34:57,596 --> 00:34:59,756 Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to like be warm and 699 00:34:59,796 --> 00:35:01,716 Speaker 1: fuzzy about it. This is the relationship between like what's 700 00:35:01,716 --> 00:35:03,516 Speaker 1: real and what's not real, what's made by a computer 701 00:35:03,636 --> 00:35:08,956 Speaker 1: and what's yeah, yeah, thematically nice. What's one tip for 702 00:35:09,436 --> 00:35:10,036 Speaker 1: my living room? 703 00:35:11,396 --> 00:35:15,316 Speaker 2: Oh? I like that? No bear bulbs? 704 00:35:16,996 --> 00:35:17,396 Speaker 1: Thank you? 705 00:35:17,676 --> 00:35:18,796 Speaker 2: Yeah? 706 00:35:19,036 --> 00:35:20,236 Speaker 1: Am I getting interrogated? 707 00:35:20,356 --> 00:35:26,436 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, warm light to me always? 708 00:35:26,876 --> 00:35:29,396 Speaker 1: Yeah. You think you'll ever leave Pixar? 709 00:35:30,596 --> 00:35:33,996 Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine. It feels like it's my other family. Uh. 710 00:35:34,036 --> 00:35:37,876 Speaker 2: And I have so much sort of knowledge invested here, 711 00:35:37,916 --> 00:35:41,436 Speaker 2: and I love this place, and I love getting to 712 00:35:41,436 --> 00:35:42,996 Speaker 2: work on our films and I love what we do. 713 00:35:48,596 --> 00:35:53,316 Speaker 1: Danielle Feinberg is a visual effects supervisor at Pixar. Today's 714 00:35:53,316 --> 00:35:56,796 Speaker 1: show was produced by Gabriel Hunter Chang and Edith Russolo. 715 00:35:56,996 --> 00:36:01,156 Speaker 1: It was edited by Sarah Nix and engineered by Amanda K. Wong. 716 00:36:01,636 --> 00:36:05,156 Speaker 1: You can email us at problem at Pushkin dot fm. 717 00:36:05,516 --> 00:36:08,276 Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Jacob Goldstein. I'm 718 00:36:08,356 --> 00:36:10,796 Speaker 1: Jacob Goldstein and we'll be back next week with another 719 00:36:10,836 --> 00:36:18,116 Speaker 1: episode of What's Your Problem? MHM.