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Speaker 1: Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership

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Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio. Welcome to you, Why.

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Speaker 2: Ye we get to see you?

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Flaky Biscuit podcast, where each week we

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Speaker 1: are cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia. You already know

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Speaker 1: what it is, meals and recipes that have comforted and

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Speaker 1: guided our guests to success. I'm really excited about today's

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Speaker 1: guest because he's such a special person and couldn't be

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Speaker 1: a more perfect person to talk to today in this

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Speaker 1: very very moment, because it's a very special week for

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Speaker 1: our guests. You know, he's someone that's embodied the food

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Speaker 1: nostalgias of his upbringing and melded it together. Founder of

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Speaker 1: the food blog Little Fat Boy, which one SEP wors

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Speaker 1: Blog of the Year as I was sitting right next

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Speaker 1: to you, and also won the IACP Individual Food Blog

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Speaker 1: Award and has been nominated for a webby former designer

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Speaker 1: turned food writer and photographer who creates recipes based on

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Speaker 1: his Taiwanese American upbringing. Fam Today, I'm welcoming Frankiega was good.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Thanks for having me, Yes this Man.

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Speaker 1: Twenty nineteen Blog Awards yeah, I remember being so excited

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Speaker 1: to meet you.

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Speaker 2: It was funny because I remember I don't think we

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Speaker 2: met the whole time we were there up until the

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Speaker 2: award ceremony, and I remember my mom was the one

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Speaker 2: who like picked the table and you just happened to

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Speaker 2: be sitting there and I didn't know who you were

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Speaker 2: at all. I think back to it, I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 2: that was like so serendipitous that we sat next to

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Speaker 2: each other and became friends.

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Speaker 1: From that, I agree. You know, before the award ceremony,

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Speaker 1: I was looking up all the categories and obviously the

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Speaker 1: aesthetics of your work just caught everyone's eye, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, that's what I want to do, you know,

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Speaker 1: with my Hunduran heritage. I was kind of like, yo, that,

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Speaker 1: like that was inspiration to see you winning that award.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: So I just said, it's a really big week for you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: why don't you tell our listeners what exactly is going on.

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Speaker 2: My book, Baby First Generation comes out next week on Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: So I literally just flew in last night and I

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Speaker 2: am prepping to do all the promo and go on

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Speaker 2: book tour. So oh, it feels very like I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I feel like very far removed from my typical daily life, right,

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Speaker 2: just like being New York and like doing all this

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Speaker 2: press and to even just like talk to people that

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Speaker 2: follow the work, because I feel like just the whole

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Speaker 2: journey in general has been very isolated, like it's always

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Speaker 2: been through my phone, right and through digital media. And

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Speaker 2: so to like meet real people and talk to real

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Speaker 2: people about this work and the book is it feels

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Speaker 2: very surreal.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it surreal? It's so exciting that you're on this journey.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're three days away from your book coming Saturday, Sunday,

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Speaker 1: Monday to Tuesday, four days away from First Generation, which

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Speaker 1: you know the title of this book, first Generation, so impactful.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be such a meaningful book on people's shelves.

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Speaker 1: So make sure you cop that for a generation. You

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Speaker 1: already know what it is. Another funny thing is that

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Speaker 1: the hand models in your book wasn't my brother?

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Speaker 2: Your brother's in it? Yes, his hand is literally in

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Speaker 2: the book. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember you put an ad up on socials

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Speaker 1: and because you're in Seattle, My brother was in Seattle, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you were like seeking hand models, and I was like, yo,

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Speaker 1: I think my brother has nice hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was so great man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember putting out a clock because I wanted

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Speaker 2: more diverse hands in my book because I'm just like

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Speaker 2: so used to seeing white hands in food media, and

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Speaker 2: so I wanted to have diversity in the photography.

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Speaker 1: It's very important that people see, you know, I always

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Speaker 1: talk about when you go to a restaurant, you might

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Speaker 1: see the executive chef on the billboard. Yeah, but the

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Speaker 1: hands that are touching that food. Yeah, you already know

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Speaker 1: what color. Yeah, yeah, they're usually not white, alright, But

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Speaker 1: we're going to dive into that now before we get

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Speaker 1: into the diversity of food media, which is going to

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Speaker 1: be a big, big, big part of this conversation. I

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Speaker 1: feel there's something that we talked about, something that you

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Speaker 1: asked me to make for you. I would like you

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Speaker 1: to tell the listeners what is it that is nostalgic

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Speaker 1: to you and food? What brings you back? What is

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Speaker 1: this food item that I cooked for you? And like why?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So I think a lot of people think that

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Speaker 2: this could be like dumplings, it could be you know, noodles,

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Speaker 2: But I asked you to make Kraft mac and cheese

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Speaker 2: for me or some version of it. So that was

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Speaker 2: my nostalgic item.

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Speaker 1: I you know, was so excited when you said that,

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Speaker 1: because because of that, exactly what you said, people expect.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh, well, like, you know, look at this cookbook.

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Speaker 1: Probably And it's not to say that dumplings aren't nostalgic

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Speaker 1: to you, but the fact that there's an item out

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Speaker 1: there that's commercially available that most people know that impacts

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Speaker 1: your life just as much as something more cultural, right,

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Speaker 1: Like do you feel like mac and cheese is just

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Speaker 1: as much part of your culture as Taiwanese?

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Speaker 2: I think one hundred percent. Like I feel like Taiwanese

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Speaker 2: food is just like part of me, Like I am

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Speaker 2: very much Taiwanese by heritage, but like I grew up

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Speaker 2: in the Midwest, like I grew up in Ohio, and

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Speaker 2: so I find that these commercially available things that you

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Speaker 2: find your grocery store every day, that people have all

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Speaker 2: the time, like craft mac and cheese and you know,

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Speaker 2: box cereal, like these are all things that I loved

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Speaker 2: just as much, just as I did with dumplings and

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Speaker 2: with noodles, and so to me, it has like a

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Speaker 2: sentimental and nostalgic part of my food culture.

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Speaker 1: When was the first time you had it? Do you

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Speaker 1: remember the first time you saw that blue box?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was probably like second or third grade, and

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Speaker 2: I remember it because when I grabbed it on the aisle,

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Speaker 2: my parents were like, no, you're definitely not We're not

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Speaker 2: buying that at all. And so I think that made

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Speaker 2: it even more of a thing that I wanted to have,

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Speaker 2: Like I craved it. I was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: it's like the magical blue box that my parents won't

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Speaker 2: let me eat. I need to have this, And so

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Speaker 2: eventually I was able to like get it into the

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Speaker 2: house and then smug. Yeah, because like and then like

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Speaker 2: even when we had it in our pantry, like it

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Speaker 2: would make like healthy snacks or like vegetables for me,

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Speaker 2: and then they would say, you have to finish this

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Speaker 2: in order to eat the mac and cheese. So that's

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Speaker 2: how they kind of got me to eat vegetables and

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Speaker 2: like eat all the healthy food.

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Speaker 1: Seems like a smart tactic, but so it was basically

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Speaker 1: like a reward system. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What was

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Speaker 1: the aversion to bringing mac and cheese into the house?

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Speaker 1: Was it cultural or was it just health reason?

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Speaker 2: They just yeah, they were just like, wow, it's like

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Speaker 2: this thing is literally me on orange and it's powder like,

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Speaker 2: and they're just so used to like cooking, cooking, you know,

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Speaker 2: whole ingredients, and so they were just like, we're not

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Speaker 2: putting this orange powder in my kid's body. But you

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Speaker 2: don't understand it's so good.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever put chopped hot dogs in it?

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Speaker 2: I would put hot dogs sometimes, but I always put

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Speaker 2: ramen noodles.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That was like the thing that I would kind of hack.

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Speaker 2: So I would make the sauce like the powdered sauce,

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Speaker 2: and then I would boil the ramen noodles separately, and

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Speaker 2: then I would just like mix the two together. And

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Speaker 2: that was kind of like my version of making it

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Speaker 2: into my own. But yeah, I would put hotdogs. Sometimes.

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Speaker 2: I would put ham, like Deli ham. Sometimes I would

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Speaker 2: put the pepperoni from like the Lunchables boxes into the

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Speaker 2: mac and cheese. Like I would kind of just find

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Speaker 2: whatever and just like you know, spice it up.

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Speaker 1: Yo. Let me tell you something right now, man, I

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Speaker 1: wish we grew up together. We would have been eating good.

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Speaker 1: You got I got the ram you know. It's it's

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Speaker 1: just so interesting that something. It's like you said, it's

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Speaker 1: something that's just in cabinets and in pantries. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I feel like any friend from any culture that I've

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Speaker 1: been to their house growing up in high school, like Nose, Kraft,

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Speaker 1: Maga Cheese, And to our listeners, this is not a

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Speaker 1: Craft advertisement. There's no sponsorship here. Now Kraft wants to

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Speaker 1: donate somebody, that's fine. You know, we're open to that.

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Speaker 1: This is just genuine real life. You know, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about this nostalgia and the memories that come up for

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Speaker 1: us when we think about it. You know, like, do

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Speaker 1: you have specific memories, let's say, other than when you

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Speaker 1: first smuggled it in the house. Are there any other

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Speaker 1: specific moments where that mac and cheese kind of came

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Speaker 1: through in the clutch?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know if I have any big moments.

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Speaker 2: I think my Kraft Mac and cheese like memories are

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Speaker 2: always tied to like specific moments in time, Like I

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Speaker 2: always eat it, you know, right after school when I

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Speaker 2: come home. It'd be like the first thing I would make,

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Speaker 2: and then I I would make it right away, and

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Speaker 2: then I'd go straight to the TV and watch Mari.

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Speaker 2: I would just eat Craft Mac and cheese and Binge

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Speaker 2: watch mariy and then I also just remember like my

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Speaker 2: grandma watching me eat the Kraft mac and cheese, and

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Speaker 2: she'd be like like what is that? So she had

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Speaker 2: never seen anything like that, Like I don't think there's

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Speaker 2: anything in Taiwanese cooking that's like neon orange or orange

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Speaker 2: in color. So I just remember this just complete cognitive

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Speaker 2: dissonance between like what I was eating and like her

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Speaker 2: cultural context. I don't know if this is like two

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Speaker 2: worlds collide, Yeah, then somehow it was all in the

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Speaker 2: same household.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I like what you said two worlds colliding,

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Speaker 1: because I mean seeing something come out of a box

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Speaker 1: that's just like this color from a crayon box. I

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Speaker 1: could understand why a grandmother would be like tarnation is

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Speaker 1: going on here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Yeah. She's like so used to like pulling

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Speaker 2: her own noodles and like making her own sauces, and

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Speaker 2: then to just see this kid pull out about piece

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Speaker 2: of microwave and like suld be like what, so.

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Speaker 1: You know mac and cheese itself? Have you ever stepped

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Speaker 1: back to think about like who invented mac and cheese?

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Speaker 2: I mean, not specificly for craft mac and cheese. But

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Speaker 2: I think with mac and cheese in general, I mean

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming it's southern, so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh it's southern, Southern sh So a lot of

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Speaker 1: people there's like a folklore that Thomas Jefferson created mac

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Speaker 1: and cheese. People were saying, I think, I think, I

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Speaker 1: think that's what. There's like a myth about that, and

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Speaker 1: it's essentially folklore because you know, Thomas Jefferson, you know

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Speaker 1: how to cook. Because so apparently this dude, I guess

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Speaker 1: before he was present, traveled to Italy and it was like,

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Speaker 1: I like that macaroni. But he had a chef with

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Speaker 1: him that was one of his slaves. And that slave

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Speaker 1: his name was James Hemings.

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Speaker 2: Wow, okay, pretty much.

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Speaker 1: A master chef. He was cooking really good. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think he's the one that really created this mac and

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Speaker 1: cheese as a staple, like blending, you know, these cheeses

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Speaker 1: from Italy, that macaroni noodle. You know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people don't realize that macaroni is like it's a whole

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Speaker 1: thing in Italy. It's definitely like different there than it

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Speaker 1: is here. It's just a cut a noodle for us.

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Speaker 1: Someone says, macaroni I'm like, where that neon yellow? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you're right is southern because you know Thomas Jefferson

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Speaker 1: was not great. Now, yeah, of course it's a credit.

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Speaker 1: So we got this nostalgic meal. Yeah, and you asked

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Speaker 1: me to recreate it. So you know there's as a

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Speaker 1: cook yourself, you know there's some inherent problems here. There

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Speaker 1: is an ingredients list that is longer than you know

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Speaker 1: your book. There's a packet of dry powder. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: here's the approach I took. Okay, and I usually don't

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Speaker 1: do this, and so I want my listeners to be

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Speaker 1: uh patient with me, but I had to go get

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Speaker 1: a food dehydrator. I wasn't that. I'm so sorry it

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Speaker 1: wasn't that expensive because I didn't want to just make

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Speaker 1: a roue of cheese sauce and you know, because that's

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Speaker 1: that's not Kraft mac and geese. Okay, have you ever

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Speaker 1: tried to recreate it?

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Speaker 2: I've never tried. In my head, I'm like, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if I could, Like, I don't have the skill

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Speaker 2: set to like, so.

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Speaker 1: Well, don't give me props yet. We don't give me

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Speaker 1: props yet. But so I get this food dehydrator, I

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Speaker 1: get a big block of like Walmart great value cheddar cheese,

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Speaker 1: the good stuff. Okay, we keeping it organic, all right.

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Speaker 1: I took a stab at making ramen noodles from scratch,

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Speaker 1: but to be I was like no. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I cannot serve this to Frankie. You gonna kill me, man.

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Speaker 1: So I did opt to get the regular ramen, the

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Speaker 1: dried ones. Yeah right, but the recipe is for this

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Speaker 1: cheese is dehydrate. Sat here on the counter for like

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Speaker 1: twelve hours in this machine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I opened it up and all the oils like on

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Speaker 1: the bottom. Yeah, it like it like separates, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just like starts to separate and oil starts dripping

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Speaker 1: every gross. So I lift the thing up and like

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Speaker 1: all this cheddar is like hard, it's dehydrated. Yeah. But

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Speaker 1: then I smelled it and I was like, oh man,

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Speaker 1: low key kind of smells like yeah the craft powder. Wow. Okay,

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Speaker 1: because I went on their website and it says we

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Speaker 1: dehydrate cheese and spice and shells. All right, that's what

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. So I did it. I added a

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Speaker 1: little tumeric try to get the color maybe a little

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Speaker 1: bit too much. I'm about to give it to you

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Speaker 1: in a minute. What I thought was papriko was actually

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Speaker 1: cayenne pepper.

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Speaker 2: Nice.

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Speaker 1: So you're in for a bit of a kick. That's

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Speaker 1: the recipe process. That's how my brain. I was like, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna just dehydrate cheese, hit it in the blender,

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Speaker 1: mix it with milk and butter, and see what. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it happens. So I think it's time. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I think the time has come for me to try

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Speaker 1: to transport you back into your kitchen with your grandmother

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Speaker 1: looking at you like why are you eating it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I haven't had Kraft Mac and cheese for

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Speaker 2: the record, for like probably maybe two years. So every

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Speaker 2: year a couple of years, I'll be.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh I need to have Every two years, you

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Speaker 1: have like a moment. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like cycle between like one y'all do Kraft

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Speaker 2: mac and cheese, another y'all do like pizza rolls, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just like go through it, like I'll have phases

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Speaker 2: around I'm like, wow, I'm craving this thing.

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Speaker 1: What triggers the phase?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, honestly, I think I just like miss

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Speaker 2: home sometimes, so I'll just be like, oh, I kind

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Speaker 2: of like want to be reminded of the Midwest.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, well, I hope that this is going to

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Speaker 1: take you at least closer to the Midwest than you are.

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Speaker 1: And if I'm lucky, you'll land smack dab in the middle.

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Speaker 1: So here we go. We're in a cheers. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: clink our little glasses together. You don't have to take

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Speaker 1: more than one bite.

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Speaker 2: No, I appreciate, thank you so much for making.

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Speaker 1: So here we go. We're diving in.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing big bite. Who good, that's wild that ud

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Speaker 2: HydroD cheese. I' gonna take another bite.

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Speaker 1: Oh double bite. Double bite must mean something.

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Speaker 2: It tastes like you definitely get craft, but definitely tastes

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Speaker 2: like cheesier, like it has more cheese flavor.

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Speaker 1: Right, this is where Kraft pulls our sponsorship. But it's

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Speaker 1: probably because the ingredients and Craft are not you know,

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Speaker 1: I just use a block of cheese and that was it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what else.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: They put in a rival flame and die yellow aid

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Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. So but that's the

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Speaker 1: good stuff. That's what kind of really takes it over

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Speaker 1: to edge.

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Speaker 2: And I like the spice. This feels like elevated craft

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Speaker 2: Mac and cheese.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, baby elevation. Oh yo, you took like four bites.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I would eat more, but we're on on mylf.

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to.

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Speaker 1: Do, you know. Honestly, ASMR of Frankie eating different types

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Speaker 1: of macaroni and cheese sounds like a pretty successful YouTube channel,

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Speaker 1: so you might want to pocket that we're rolling into commercials.

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Speaker 3: Stay tuned, Welcome back to Flaky Biscuit.

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Speaker 1: I bet that our listeners are dying to know if

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Speaker 1: I nailed it, if I brought you back, and exactly

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Speaker 1: what memories just happened? Did you get any memories? Is

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Speaker 1: it terrible?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: Honestly, it reminds me of home. It definitely reminds me

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Speaker 2: of like microwaving mac and cheese. Also, like, for some

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Speaker 2: reason reminded me of going to the Olive Garden because

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Speaker 2: we used to go to the Olive Garden a lot,

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Speaker 2: and I'd also always get their mac and cheese there,

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Speaker 2: and theirs as like a cheesier version of like a

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Speaker 2: craft mac and cheese, but they use like a white

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Speaker 2: cheese I think. But it kind of reminded me of

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Speaker 2: the Olive Garden Wow in Cincinnati where I grew up.

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Speaker 2: There was no restaurant seene whatsoever. So like the Olive

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Speaker 2: Garden was like the fancy restaurant.

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Speaker 1: Huh.

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Speaker 2: So you would always go there for like any sort

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Speaker 2: of special occasions like graduation or like if I got

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Speaker 2: an a on a test, take me there, and I

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Speaker 2: always got their mac and cheese there, So I think

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Speaker 2: that's kind of also what is reminded me.

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Speaker 1: Of, Oh wow, I feel honored. You know. Honestly, when

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Speaker 1: I dumped in the dehydrated cheese into the butter and milk,

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Speaker 1: it completely separated. It did not make it. See if

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Speaker 1: you can see like kind of the just like weird

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Speaker 1: orange chunks. Oh, I thought that was a spice agulate.

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Speaker 1: That's the hydrate cheese being like not spam. Like this

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Speaker 1: is not the vibe. You should also take a picture

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Speaker 1: of this, oh yeah, and send to your family and

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Speaker 1: be like, yeah, I think I did it. I think

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Speaker 1: I think I brought you back, which is really important

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Speaker 1: because you know, when I eat food like anywhere, the

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Speaker 1: first thing is is this, like my mouth, is this

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Speaker 1: gonna make me feel like I want to feel when

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Speaker 1: I eat it. I think it's really cool that you know,

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Speaker 1: you got that kind of feeling from it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would brought you back to the olive garden.

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Speaker 2: Oh did Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I like how you said the olive garden. By the way,

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Speaker 1: it was clearly a very important place because it was like,

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Speaker 1: are we going to the olive garden? So listen, we

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Speaker 1: are going to play a little game in a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Not yet, but I want our listeners to be aware

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Speaker 1: that the mac and Cheese adventure is not over. But

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Speaker 1: you know, look, I want to kind of talk about

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Speaker 1: Little fat Boy Frankie. Yeah, this is your blog, this

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Speaker 1: is your brand. Yeah, how did this all begin?

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Speaker 2: Honestly, it started as just a project for myself. I

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Speaker 2: was working in tech and I wanted just like a

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Speaker 2: creative outlet to do something on the side to really

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Speaker 2: express myself. And so I started the blog around twenty

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Speaker 2: I think sixteen or seventeen. It's kind of around a

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Speaker 2: time when I was look in my like mid twenties,

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Speaker 2: and I was like going through a lot of like

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Speaker 2: personal stuff. So like my dad had just passed away,

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Speaker 2: and I was trying to figure out who I was,

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Speaker 2: and like I was in tech. I was like, what

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Speaker 2: is the point of being in tech? And so I

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Speaker 2: was just doing a lot of soul searching, and I

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Speaker 2: felt like food was this comfort for me to kind

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Speaker 2: of go back to because it was kind of like

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Speaker 2: my square one. It's like, cooking these dumplings and cooking

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Speaker 2: steam buns and noodles just reminded me of home, which

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Speaker 2: is kind of what I needed at that point in time.

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Speaker 2: And so when I was cooking these dishes, I was

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Speaker 2: starting to document them because I didn't know how to

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Speaker 2: cook them at the time, but I knew the flavors

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Speaker 2: really well, and so I would fly to my grandma's

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Speaker 2: house and I would document her making steam buns and

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Speaker 2: making all these traditional dishes. And then that's when I

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Speaker 2: started posting them on to social media. And because I've

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Speaker 2: always loved design and photography, that's like always been a

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Speaker 2: passion of mine as well, I kind of was just like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it would be really cool to photograph and visualize these

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Speaker 2: dishes in the same way that food media represents typically

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Speaker 2: Eurocentric dishes, and I don't know, bringing out that same level.

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Speaker 2: And so it was almost like a challenge to me

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Speaker 2: to be like, oh, like, you know, I never see

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Speaker 2: these like home style dishes from my own heritage. It

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Speaker 2: was like a challenge should be like, oh, like I

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Speaker 2: can do this too, you know, represent my food in

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Speaker 2: a way that also celebrates it and kind of elevates

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Speaker 2: it visually so that other people can buy into it,

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Speaker 2: be like, oh, what what is this dish? And like

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Speaker 2: what are these buns and what's in them? And so

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Speaker 2: that's kind of how I started the blog, and then

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Speaker 2: eventually it started to grow up until you know, when

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Speaker 2: we met at the Civil War blogs, and that's I

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Speaker 2: feel like that was kind of like one of the

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Speaker 2: bigger turning points. That's when everything started to shift. You know,

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Speaker 2: my full time job as a designer started to be

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Speaker 2: put to the side, and then I was working on

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Speaker 2: the blog more and exploring my own identities through food.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I was starting to take these traditional

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Speaker 2: dishes and put my own creative spins on them and

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Speaker 2: kind of looking at other parts of me, so like

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Speaker 2: my Midwestern background and the dishes like you know, Kraft

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Speaker 2: mac and cheese and box cereals and all these things

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Speaker 2: that I grew up with too that are also part

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Speaker 2: of me, and started incorporating that into like my Taiwanese cooking.

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Speaker 2: And that's really when the blog started to take life,

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Speaker 2: and when my brand started to.

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Speaker 1: Grow so wow, Frankie. First of all, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for sharing. I can definitely relate on wanting to

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Speaker 1: bring you know, for example, Central American or hunder and

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't need to talk too much in detail,

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Speaker 1: but you know, food media today is it's an interesting place,

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Speaker 1: and I do feel like our stories have a lot

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Speaker 1: of potential to kind of continue to climb. Yeah, Whereas

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Speaker 1: maybe in twenty sixteen or seventeen, I think that's around

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Speaker 1: when I started my blog too, it felt like it

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Speaker 1: was going to be tough to break through and to

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Speaker 1: make it happen, and.

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Speaker 2: I feel like there is at that time too, there's

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Speaker 2: almost like an expectation for people of color who were

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Speaker 2: talking and cooking their food that they had to be

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Speaker 2: these historical experts of like all that type of cooking.

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Speaker 2: So like for me, for example, I always felt like

435
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 2: this pressure of oh, like, you're supposed to be an

436
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,919
Speaker 2: expert in Taiwanese cooking, whereas I think now I'm very

437
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,920
Speaker 2: much like, no, I don't necessarily have to be an

438
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,120
Speaker 2: expert of the history of Taiwanese cooking. I think it's

439
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 2: just as important to celebrate the stories of people who

440
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 2: might not feel like they belong in one culture or

441
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,400
Speaker 2: the other. So like, you know, I'm Taiwanese and American,

442
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 2: but I feel like I've never belonged to either. I've

443
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 2: only been to Taiwan maybe like two or three times

444
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 2: in my entire life. And so I still feel like

445
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 2: the food that I cook and the food that people

446
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 2: who have my type of background, those stories are still

447
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: valid because they have rich history and they have a

448
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 2: lot of context, and you can kind of see them

449
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 2: in a lot of first generation immigrant stories of like

450
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 2: people who, yeah, who just feel like almost like third culture.

451
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 2: I feel like those stories are really important to tell too,

452
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 2: And so I don't think you necessarily have to be

453
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,120
Speaker 2: like this encyclopedia of what that specific culture is supposed

454
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 2: to be, because their stories and their personal experiences are

455
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 2: still valid.

456
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think once that kind of pretentious ideology of

457
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: what we need to be has been erased, we're able

458
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 1: to flourish more. Like, you know, I got, oh, you

459
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: don't even own a bakery, so why are you a baker?

460
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 1: Or like what are you even baker? You know what

461
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 1: I mean? Like my content's a little bit different than

462
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: most bakers. You know. I struggle with that, but I

463
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 1: think when you break through that, you're like, oh, it

464
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, those opinions mean nothing. I'm totally

465
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,959
Speaker 1: a baker, right, Yeah. I actually saw I think on

466
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 1: your website you said you're not a chef, for you're not,

467
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: you know, I think you are. I mean so when

468
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: I look at your videos and you're ridiculously perfect dumplings,

469
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is definitely a chef. That's so funny.

470
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 2: In my head, I'm still a home cook. I feel

471
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: like I'm still learning and I'm still growing, and I've

472
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 2: never worked in a restaurant environment. So to me, I'm

473
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: just like, I feel like I can relate to the

474
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: home cook more because I'm still figuring it out too.

475
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: And yeah, and it's always important to maintain that relatability

476
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 1: because when you have a cookbook, you want people to

477
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: feel comfortable. You know. Oh, like he cooks at home.

478
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: He's doing this in his home kitchen. I find some

479
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: success with I'm like, hey, like I'll take a video

480
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: loading bread in this like yanky New York City oven.

481
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: People think I'm using some huge setup and I'm like,

482
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: I'm just out here with the tiny mixer, some sour

483
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: dough in a bowl and like this oven that gives

484
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 1: people the confidence to learn about new cuisines, right, and

485
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: I can learn about what it means to kind of

486
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: infuse two cultures together. Yeah. Yeah, And something else on

487
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: your blog that you said, I think it's I'm gonna

488
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: quote it for you. I'm gonna quote yourself to you.

489
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: I've always felt somewhere in between being culturally American yet

490
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: not white enough and too American to never quite fit

491
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: into my own Taiwanese roots. That is powerful, it's powerful.

492
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? Let our listeners know, Like,

493
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: what what does that really mean? Yeah?

494
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 2: I think that just stems from like when I was

495
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: growing up in Ohio, like I held these two cultures.

496
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 2: I was Taiwanese, but I was also American, and I

497
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 2: always felt like they were separate. My home life was

498
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 2: very much Taiwanese, and you know, my family surrounding me

499
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: involved me with Taiwanese culture, but I didn't really have

500
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: a full reference point to that because I had never

501
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: been to Taiwan really like as a kid, and so

502
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 2: I can only imagine things of like, you know what

503
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: it was like to grow up in Taiwan, or you

504
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 2: know what it was like to eat these foods. I

505
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 2: only had so much context, and so I never really

506
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: felt like I could fully relate to like my parents

507
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 2: or my grandparents when they spoke in Chinese and when

508
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: they would talk about their lives in the past and

509
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 2: you know, their life before America.

510
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: Right.

511
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 2: But then when I would go out the door, you know,

512
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: I kind of shed like my Tawanese version of myself

513
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 2: and I was like, Okay, I'm fully American. I'm almost

514
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: like diminishing the Asianists so I can fit in. I

515
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: still looked Asian, and so people obviously just got that.

516
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 2: And so I very much like separated those two things.

517
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 2: And so but even when I was with my friends,

518
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 2: you know, outside of my house, I still never felt

519
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: like fully like I belonged because yeah, I was Asian,

520
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: people obviously wouldn't know that. And so I think that's

521
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: what I mean when I'm like, I was kind of

522
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: in between, Like I never felt like I belonged to

523
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 2: either bucket. I just never really fully understood what my

524
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 2: identity was or like what I should be proud of.

525
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 2: And it's I think taking me like up until my

526
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 2: twenties to really embrace the fact that like I don't

527
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: have to keep those two things separate, like they can

528
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 2: very much be together. So I feel like the cookbook

529
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: is very much about like celebrating that journey of like

530
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 2: shame of not wanting to bring attention to my heritage,

531
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 2: but then also like figuring it out as I went

532
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: along and eventually being able to be like, Okay, i

533
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: am Taiwanese and I'm American. I might not feel like

534
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: I fit in both, that's okay, and that should still

535
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: be celebrated and there could be good, delicious food that

536
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 2: comes from that.

537
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: Right, It's unfortunate that struggle has to happen, Right, I mean,

538
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: you're explaining a lot of things that listeners that are

539
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: going to hear what you just said and know exactly

540
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Me being one of them. Yeah,

541
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: you know when I listen to what you're saying, that's

542
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: giving me goosebumps and making me go back to trying

543
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: to figure out if I should hang out with the

544
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: black kids or white kids. Neither of them fully accepts me,

545
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: but like I had enough pull with them to kind

546
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: of hang out a little bit, but there would always

547
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: be this like cageness around me, Like, Okay, you know

548
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: he's in the smart classes, like he talked too good,

549
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 1: or he had his hair is a little bit different.

550
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 1: And then around the white people, they'd just be like,

551
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: you're articulate, you're so well spoken. I don't know if

552
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: you've ever gotten that one where oh yeah, so well spoken,

553
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: and what am I supposed to sound?

554
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, oh, you don't have an accent? And it's like, well, no,

555
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 2: I was born here American.

556
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, your name is Brian Ford. He must be white.

557
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: Like you know, there's a lot that goes into this

558
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 1: first generation life. It's interesting the title of your book again,

559
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 1: I bring it back to that because it just it's

560
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: gonna be very impactful in people's hands, the fact that

561
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: you're sharing what you're sharing. Honestly, I read what you

562
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: wrote about your dad and it made me cry. Legit.

563
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah you could ask Bridget. We were on the couch

564
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: and I read this post and I can't even imagine

565
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: how that must have been for you to write that

566
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: and to publish that.

567
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's basically this essay that is in the

568
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 2: form of a letter to my dad. I put an

569
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 2: excerpt on social media that was from the book. So

570
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 2: and it basically starts out as you know, I haven't

571
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: talked to you in seven years, and I go through

572
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: all the things that I'm thinking about as I'm making

573
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 2: scallion pancakes. So scallion pancakes was this dish that my

574
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 2: dad always made me on the weekends. And it's like

575
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: a flaky, crispy flatbread and there's like scallions in between.

576
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 2: It's salty and it's layered, and so I just talk

577
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 2: about how that dish just reminds me of him, and

578
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 2: how it ties into my Asian identity in a sense

579
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: that like the smell, it would always like get onto

580
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 2: my clothes, and so my mom used to always be like, dude,

581
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: like stop making these pancakes, so you're gonna make them

582
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 2: so Asian And my dad was always like, yeah, we

583
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: are Asian, Like duh, it's so fine. And so the

584
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 2: essay is very much about me speaking to that struggle between,

585
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: you know, loving this dish but also feeling like it

586
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: makes me stand out as an Asian and then also

587
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: kind of navigating my identity trying to figure out my

588
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: own queerness. And so you know, I talk about dating

589
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 2: the last girl and how she told me that I

590
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: was going to be reincarnated into like a watermelon, and

591
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: like I was like, that is crazy, and so I

592
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 2: talk about it in the letter. How you know, it's

593
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 2: funny how food just like is this nostalgic and sentimental

594
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 2: thing that can like remind you of specific memories. So

595
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: like anytime I eat watermelon, I always think of that date.

596
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: How awful? That well, not awful, but it was just

597
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 2: like like a revelatory date and that it really made

598
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: me think, Oh wow, like I really need to think

599
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: about who I am and who I want to date

600
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: and like who do I want to be? Because I

601
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: was like, I don't know if this is this is

602
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: for me?

603
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not the vibe.

604
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that the letter is about how food can be.

605
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: It's almost like time travel. You eat something and it

606
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: takes you back to a very specific moment in time.

607
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: And for me, that was when I was struggling with

608
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: my identity and so that's what the letter was about.

609
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: And I kind of talked through all the things that

610
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,719
Speaker 2: have happened to me since and how I'm trying to

611
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: live my life now.

612
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: So it's incredibly moving. I can't I can't stress enough.

613
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: It's funny because originally when I was first starting the book,

614
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: I wasn't planning on sharing anything like I was, because

615
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: I'm very much like an introvert. I even in real life,

616
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: I'm not much of a sharer. Like all my friends say, oh, like,

617
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: you're really good at deflecting, like you always put walls up.

618
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: I thought my book was going to be more or

619
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: less like my Instagram, but like in book form. So

620
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: I would like have these beautiful photos and I would

621
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: have these descriptions that are like, oh, this is a

622
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: dumpling and it has you know, xyz ingredients and it

623
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 2: tastes like this. And when I wrote the early drafts

624
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: and gave it to my friends to kind of give

625
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 2: me feedback, They're like, this doesn't sound like you at all,

626
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: Like none of your personality or your stories in here.

627
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: And so it kind of made me step back, and

628
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: I was just like, Okay, Like, if I'm going to

629
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: write a book about Taiwanese American food, like I have

630
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 2: to talk about the context that comes with that. So

631
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: you know, the stuff that I dealt with with my identity,

632
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 2: the stuff with grief, with my dad coming out and

633
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: like finding myself in that process too, Like all that

634
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 2: was connected. So I was just like, I guess I

635
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: have to just write it all in this book, like

636
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: I have no choice for it to like feel like

637
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 2: a complete book, and for this food to make sense,

638
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 2: like I need to put something like a letter to

639
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 2: my dad into a cookbook. So that's how I ended

640
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: up in there.

641
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: Man, let me tell you, you're an inspiration. Honestly, it's so real.

642
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: And it's not just the heavy stuff like that. There's

643
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: some really funny stuff that you've been posting. Yeah, what

644
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: was it you've been dreaming about? Antony? Explain?

645
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: So the last essay, this is the second last but

646
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 2: to me, it's like the climax of the book. It's

647
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: an entire dream sequence featuring Antony as.

648
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: God wow, Anthony from Queer Eye right.

649
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: Queer Eye. Yeah, And it was literally a dream I had.

650
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: So I had this dream and then I went to

651
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: the coffee shop the next day and wrote it into

652
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: an entire essay. And then that was like the final

653
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: big part of the book.

654
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: We got to get him to sponsor your book, do

655
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: you know have you reached out?

656
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 2: So he wrote a blurb for the book. Yeah, it

657
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 2: was full circle. I was like, very wild. Yeah, So

658
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: it's cool that he has a blur if he else

659
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 2: is an essay in there.

660
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: Man, Yo, you're on cloud nine. You know. I want

661
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: to circle back just briefly about your cookbook, like the process.

662
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: You know, you're clearly an artist. You photograph your own book,

663
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: you styled it, you know, walk me through how that

664
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: even works in your brain.

665
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, I'm much more loosey goosey when

666
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: it comes to like my blog, but with the book,

667
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 2: because there was like a deadline, and so I basically

668
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: at the beginning of the year, when I was first

669
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: starting to write, I mapped out every single recipe and

670
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: mapped it to a day of the week, and then

671
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: I just followed that schedule. So I had, like I

672
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: made an eight month schedule, and eventually I realized that

673
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: it was not sustainable to rescue develop and photographed, so

674
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,959
Speaker 2: around halfway point, I switched to only recipe developing, and

675
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: then I would recook all of them at the end,

676
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: towards the end of the deadline, and I photographed them all.

677
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 2: So I was running around a lot, yeah, and I

678
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: was styling everything too. So I'd be like putting something

679
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 2: in the oven, and I'd like run to the salvage

680
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: jar to get like backgrounds and like random utensils and

681
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 2: then come back and then like finish the thing in

682
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: the oven. This just like it's chaos. Wow, I don't

683
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: recommend it.

684
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, you know, I think I went through a phase.

685
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: I think I even DMD. Yeah I did. I was like,

686
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to photograph this cock book because I you know,

687
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to learn how to use this camera. And

688
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: Frank you can do it. I think you told me

689
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: spray and pray right basically, just like pick up the

690
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: camera and just click the money.

691
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, just take as many photos you can and then

692
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: you and post look like okay.

693
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: Which and then they'll look like you're dumpling pictures. Psych

694
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: you don't want to see my pictures? Oh? Man, is

695
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: it wild for you to think that all of this,

696
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: all of this is happening now because you decided to

697
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: accept that crap mac and cheese and those dumplings at

698
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: the same time. Does that ever just make you feel crazy? Yeah?

699
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: I still can't believe, like I have a cookbook that

700
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: exists in like this whole even like the blog and

701
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: like people who care it all stems from for me

702
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 2: or like everyday things, you know, like dumplings that my

703
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: grandma made when I was a kid that I feel

704
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: like a lot of other Asian immigrants enjoy just in

705
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: the comfort of their own homes. It's just like a

706
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: very everyday thing. Or you know, Kraft mac and cheese

707
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 2: or simintos corpt like these are just things that I

708
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: feel like so many people have had in their lives

709
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: and so to me, like it is crazy that there

710
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: is a whole career that's come from a love of

711
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: these two very just like homye Like, yeah, foods.

712
00:33:46,360 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this. Yo, Yo,

713
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: it's Brian. You don't like what comes next, Let's get

714
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 1: back into it. It's actually the perfect time to play

715
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: our flaky game today because you know, you're talking about

716
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: how many people out there are getting nostalgic feelings from

717
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: mac and cheese. But did you know that it's not

718
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: just in the US that people eat mac and cheese.

719
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: I don't know how familiar you are with other cultures

720
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: mac and cheese, but we've got a little bit of

721
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: mac and cheese trivia for you. Okay, So I'm going

722
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: to say the name of a type of mac and cheese,

723
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: and I'm going to give you some options, because if

724
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: I didn't give you options, you would you know. My

725
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,919
Speaker 1: partner here right we're bouncing the ideas is like, he's

726
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: not going to know that. So I was like, fine,

727
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: we'll do like who wants to be a millionaire style?

728
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: We'll give you a little ABC. So the first one

729
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: I think is kind of easy. So gotcha at Pepe?

730
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:00,240
Speaker 1: All right?

731
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah?

732
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: Is this German, Mexican, Italian or Japanese.

733
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: I'd like to go see Italians?

734
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: Gotcha is not usually thought of as mac and cheese,

735
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: but when you think about it, it feels like literally geese. Yeah,

736
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: but you know they like to elevate themselves above the

737
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:18,959
Speaker 1: rest of us.

738
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: The way it goes downhill.

739
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: So for the listeners out there, please, as you listen

740
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: to this, help my pronunciation. And if you know any

741
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: of these recipes, let me know as well. This one

742
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: is macaroni chote Okay, all right? Is that Filipino, Danish,

743
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: Indonesian or from Iceland?

744
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 2: Oh I'm gonna go with Uh, I'm gonna go with

745
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 2: the Iceland.

746
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: Macaroni chtel is Indonesian?

747
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: Oh cool, Okay, I'll have to check that out.

748
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: You have to check these recipes out. Maybe you'll get

749
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: this forgive again pronunciation macahau gone recteal, macau goricas. How

750
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get destroyed for this? Is it? Is it

751
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 1: from Portugal, Italy, Brazil or Uruguay?

752
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 2: Oh? I want to say a Portugal.

753
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: You're close. It's Brazili, but it is in Portuguese, so

754
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: you're I probably should have only put one Portuguese after

755
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: I feel like that was really rude. Okay, Oh yeah,

756
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this one. Okay, this will be the

757
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: last one. I don't know if I can pronounce this.

758
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,919
Speaker 1: Macarooney lai tico. Oh, okay, macarooney lai tico? All right?

759
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: Is that from Sweden, Honduras, Tunisia or Finland.

760
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to say Tunisia?

761
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: Is it is Finish? Oh? Macarooney tko is a Finnish

762
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: version of my All these recipes, I know they look incredible. Honestly,

763
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be fun for our listeners

764
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: to hear this and ether me for all of my pronunciations,

765
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: which I am taking ownership of right now.

766
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I apologize for getting all of this wrong.

767
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, please help us out with some you know, if

768
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: your Grandma's out there. If you're from Finland and you're like, yo,

769
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: my grandma knows how to make macarooney. Latko hit us

770
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: with that recipe, man, let's make it. Me and Frankie

771
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: want to start a mac and cheese revolution.

772
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

773
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: But Frankie, it's been an honor to have you here.

774
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: And I think when it comes to the success that

775
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: we're achieving as we navigate our careers, it's always important,

776
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: you know, for me to find ways to to re

777
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: engage with different communities. And I know something that's very

778
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 1: important to you is the Asian Counseling and Referral Service

779
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: as well as the Lyrics Center for LGBTQ plus youth. Yes,

780
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: talk to me about what it is about these communities

781
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: and these organizations that you think about.

782
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean these two organizations I pick because, yeah,

783
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: they kind of straddle two identities that I care a

784
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: lot about. I feel like those were the two things

785
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: that I feel like I hid the most as a child.

786
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: I never really stood up for my own Asian culture

787
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 2: and I definitely was not going around saying I was

788
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: gay as a kid, like I kept that hidden. So

789
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 2: one is for LGBT youth, the other is for I

790
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 2: believe they just helped the Asian community in the Pacific

791
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,479
Speaker 2: Northwest area in general. But they have specific programs for

792
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 2: the elderly or for people who just like need support

793
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: financially or need to learn specific work skills, and so

794
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 2: I'm very happy to bring attention.

795
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: To those two. That's amazing. Yeah, like I said, and

796
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: I'll say again, you are going to be making a

797
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: difference in people's lives. People struggling with their idea. I

798
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: mean people who are going to school in high school

799
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: and having to hide things or figure out how to assimilate.

800
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: It's very important that these conversations are open because if

801
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: they're not open, then that same pattern is going to perpetuate.

802
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: So Frankiega First Generation is the cookbook. It's out now.

803
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: If you're listening to this, if you're streaming this, if

804
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: you're in your car and the way to work, pull out,

805
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 1: go be late to work, go to the bookstore, get

806
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: First Generation, skip work, que your job and make every recipe.

807
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: Maybe not qu your job, Queen your job and make

808
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: every single recipe in this book, and then go find

809
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 1: a new job. Thank you so much for coming. It's

810
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: a flaky biscuit. It's really great to see you here

811
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: in my kitchen. Frankie, thank you so much. Brother. Yeah,

812
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 1: all right, all right, thank y'all so much for listening

813
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: to this one, fam that was just so beautiful and heartfelt.

814
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: If you want to make my artist in craft mac

815
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: and cheese recipe for yourself, find that recipe on shondaland

816
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 1: dot com. I mean, you know I'm making these recipes,

817
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: so you make them, so please make them so I

818
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: can see how you're doing. Tag at Artis and Brian,

819
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: that's me, tag my friend Frankie at Little Fat Boy Frankie,

820
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: and of course tag at shondaland shondaland post a photo.

821
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 1: Let us know how y'all did. Get into the discord

822
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: and chat about it. We got to start conversations. I mean,

823
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: this is a if you ain't have no crab mag

824
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: and geese growing up. Tell me why you know what

825
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like I'm Hispanic. You know what I'm saying.

826
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: He come in Taiwanese roots and we both had it,

827
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: So let's talk about it. A little advice I can

828
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: give you. It's hard to dehydrate cheese and make this

829
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: powder taste exactly like it's coming out the box, so

830
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: just be patient with yourself. Add the spices that you want,

831
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: maybe a little paprika or something, a little smoke paprika

832
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: into that dehydrated cheese powder. Just kind of make it

833
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: your own and use whatever noodles you feel comfortable with.

834
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: It could be the macaroni elbows, it could be the

835
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: dry ramen. Also, don't forget to check out the Asian

836
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 1: Counseling and Referral Service at ACRS dot org and Lyric Center.

837
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 3: For LGBTQ Youth at lyric dot org.

838
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: You can find links to those sites and all the

839
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: handles I mentioned in the show notes for this episode.

840
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: So if you like Flaky Biscuit, you already know what

841
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: to do. Make sure that we are the number one

842
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: food podcast to have ever existed.

843
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 3: Leave us to reviews, leave us some ratings.

844
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Ten stars, twenty stars, thirty

845
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: six thousand stars like subscribe, you know what I'm saying.

846
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: Hit the discord, check out the YouTube content, check out

847
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: all the social media content. Thank you for your support.

848
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: Flaky Biscuit is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja,

849
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: Lauren Homan Tyler Klang and Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer

850
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: is Bridget Kenna and our editor and producer is Nicholas Harder,

851
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: with music by Crucial. Recipes from Flaky Biscuit can be

852
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: found each week on Shondaland dot com. Subscribe to the

853
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: sho Shondaland YouTube channel for more Flaky Biscuit content. Flaky

854
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.

855
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

856
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.