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Speaker 1: Truth plus media.

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Speaker 2: Robinson of the front court running quick winter gard.

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Speaker 1: Quite the same puss as it used to be as.

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Speaker 3: Far as getting it in bounds because you can go

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Speaker 3: into the backcourt down.

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Speaker 4: Yell and riding passings drawn. Chis Gray. It's time at

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Speaker 4: one tenth toughbut it's a.

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Speaker 5: Twenty faces shot clock.

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Speaker 6: Busher shouts no violation, crowd body official six seconds, five seconds,

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Speaker 6: Cashel yes, Sam Cassell, grief point seven seconds, the pot

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Speaker 6: lead what six?

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Speaker 4: What tell you what?

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Speaker 6: That's close to being a flagrant too, which is an

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Speaker 6: automatic echecktion.

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Speaker 2: You just there's no place in the basketball for this

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Speaker 2: kind of play by Scott Williams.

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Speaker 1: He's too classy a guy, but that.

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Speaker 2: Was close to being a flagrant chi Scott Williams is lucky.

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Speaker 1: He's still in the game.

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Speaker 6: The year is two thousand and one, and the Bucks

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Speaker 6: had the city of Milwaukee rocking in.

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Speaker 1: The league unnotice.

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Speaker 6: After several bleak years in the nineties, the Bucks were

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Speaker 6: finally back. Ray Allen, Sam Cassell, and Glenn Robinson were

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Speaker 6: lighting up the league. This trio led them to the

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Speaker 6: number two spot in the East and the number one

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Speaker 6: offense in the league, but shortly after this season, the

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Speaker 6: Cords split and the Bucks spiraled back in the mediocrity

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Speaker 6: for almost a decade. This is Forgotten Seasons, a show

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Speaker 6: that rediscovers and relives one iconic season with former NBA greats.

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Speaker 6: I'm Dylan Dreyfus, the creator Forgotten Seasons, and on this

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Speaker 6: episode we have Sam Cassell and George Carl.

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Speaker 1: Our two guests today have a.

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Speaker 6: Profound respect for each other and a mutual love for

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Speaker 6: their time spent in Milwaukee. We relived the best moments

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Speaker 6: from this historic two thousand and one season and discuss

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Speaker 6: why things fell apart so quickly afterwards. Forgotten Seasons with

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Speaker 6: Sam Cassell and George Carl begins. Now all right, everybody, welcome,

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Speaker 6: Welcome Coach George Carl and Sam Cassell, the head coach

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Speaker 6: in the starting point guard of the two thousand and

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Speaker 6: one Bucks squad, one of the best teams in bus history.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 6: Sam was a fifteen year NBA Pro three time champ.

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Speaker 6: This was his second full season in Milwaukee, third year there.

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Speaker 6: Coach Carl's six winning his coach in NBA history his

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Speaker 6: third year in Milwaukee. Uh, George, I want to start

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Speaker 6: with you because you've speaking, You've spoken extremely highly of

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Speaker 6: Sam your entire life. Tell the people a little bit,

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Speaker 6: you know why. Sam Cassell is one of the best

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Speaker 6: leaders that you've ever came across in basketball.

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Speaker 5: Sam.

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Speaker 2: I liked him because I thought he had a yeah,

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Speaker 2: street dame, but he had a be a basketball chew

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Speaker 2: with the game that point guard's need and and he has.

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Speaker 2: I mean, coaches always like guys they're clever and kind

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Speaker 2: of cute and get get easy baskets because of their cleverness.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when we picked Sam up, it's right.

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Speaker 2: I think Drell Brandon, it was a pretty good point guards.

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Speaker 2: That's not him for Sam.

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Speaker 4: And you know, some of my staff.

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Speaker 2: Said, well, always be Drill, and I said, I kind of.

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Speaker 2: I didn't like Trill as much.

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Speaker 4: I thought I was gonna like Sam.

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Speaker 2: But Sam was so much better than I thought he was.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I thought he was more of a scorer

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Speaker 2: point guard. Sam could have been a real I mean,

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Speaker 2: he's a little bit he's a little bit like Chris Paul.

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Speaker 2: You know, when he has to score his scores when

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Speaker 2: the game's happening and he's a facilitating he passes.

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Speaker 4: But he understood the flow of the game, the rhythm

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Speaker 4: of the game. And when you have that and.

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Speaker 2: The team in Milwaukee was a total offensive game.

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Speaker 4: We weren't we weren't.

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Speaker 2: We weren't bad defensively, but we were closer to bad

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Speaker 2: than good, and we had to fabricate our defense a

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Speaker 2: little bit. But Sam, you know, when Ray was going,

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Speaker 2: he knew how to get rid of the ball, Glenn

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Speaker 2: was going, you Glenn to get the ball. Sim Thomas

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Speaker 2: come in and.

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Speaker 4: Then then it going. Sam didn't have any you didn't

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Speaker 4: have to coach, and he knew what was going on

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Speaker 4: record all the time.

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Speaker 6: Well, Sam, now that George has said a lot of

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Speaker 6: nice things about you, I'm gonna pose it to you. Uh,

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Speaker 6: you and Georgie had a great relationship. I think George

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Speaker 6: people you on the outside. George is a rough coach,

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Speaker 6: but you guys got along. Just tell the people a

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Speaker 6: little bit about you know, your relationship with George, and uh,

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Speaker 6: you know you're a coach now if you take anything,

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Speaker 6: if you took anything from him to utilize as you're

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Speaker 6: a coach now.

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Speaker 3: The one thing when I first started playing for George,

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Speaker 3: he set me down is and let me just say, Sam,

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Speaker 3: let you play your game of basketball. But you got

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Speaker 3: to keep the team first, and we admit by that.

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Speaker 5: That's Sam.

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Speaker 3: You've got a lot of great offensive players on your team.

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Speaker 3: The quicker and more you get them off, the easiest

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Speaker 3: game gonna be come for you to score. And with

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Speaker 3: Glynn like uh, with Glenn Robinson and Ray out on

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Speaker 3: my running kicks, there was a joy to play with.

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Speaker 3: The coach said, Uh, Tim Thomas coming off the bench. Uh,

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Speaker 3: them guys could fight out score the ball. So my

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Speaker 3: job was really really easy. I just had to get

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Speaker 3: them guys the ball where they could score. And that

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Speaker 3: was that wasn't hard. Like like coach said, we wasn't

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Speaker 3: a great defensive team. He came to Milwaukee as a

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Speaker 3: defensive coach, but he got the he got when he

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Speaker 3: got there. He was like, oh, we can't these guys

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Speaker 3: just do one thing great and he knew that and

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Speaker 3: he changed his whole style by just coaching us offensively

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Speaker 3: more than defensively. He was like, listen, we got a

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Speaker 3: whole team to one O five, one o three, and

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Speaker 3: we're gonna score one fourteen, one thirteen. And that was

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Speaker 3: our mind frame. Now we need to stops. We got stops.

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Speaker 3: We just s' outscore everybody win basketball games. We had

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Speaker 3: a lot of lack of defense antenicity. We George did

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Speaker 3: Georgia Vaughan Adas paid a lot of attention to the

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Speaker 3: defensive end. But George realized real quick about our ball

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Speaker 3: club that ship we can put the ball in the

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Speaker 3: basket with the best dump, and he just he used

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Speaker 3: that to our advantage most of the nights. Some nights, coach,

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Speaker 3: you could account to this. We've been down fourteen postal

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Speaker 3: segments in the ball game. You'll just clap your hands.

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Speaker 3: After the time, I'll say, you know, we got them

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Speaker 3: right where we want. Guys, we got them right where

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Speaker 3: we want. Y'all gonna start making some shots. They're gonna

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Speaker 3: start missing some shots. We had a lot of guys

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Speaker 3: in that ball club that can make shots. And he

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Speaker 3: gave us that confidence as a as a team that

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Speaker 3: you know, you can beat this for forty minutes, but

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Speaker 3: forty eight.

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Speaker 5: Minutes can be real, real hard.

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Speaker 3: When we solid one through fifteen, where our team was together,

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Speaker 3: no injuries, no suspensions, we was a tough team to

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Speaker 3: beat and we didn't fear anyone back then.

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Speaker 6: Well, you guys won fifty two games. That was a

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Speaker 6: ten year improvement from the year before. Number two seed

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Speaker 6: in the East, number one offense in the league, just

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Speaker 6: to get a little bit into the roster. So obviously

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Speaker 6: we got Sam, We got Ray Allen, superstar, big dog,

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Speaker 6: Glenn Robinson, Scott Williams, Tim Thomas, Irvin Johnson, Lindsay Hunter,

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Speaker 6: you guys picked up and a few other role guys.

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Speaker 1: So Sam, I want to kick it back to you.

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Speaker 6: It wouldn't be right unless we just started talking about

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Speaker 6: the big three, right we thinking now big three? You

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Speaker 6: got the heat, but the heat and you know with

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Speaker 6: Lebron and Wade, but you guys.

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Speaker 1: Were a true big three.

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Speaker 6: Talk a little bit about You mentioned it, but you

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Speaker 6: as the point guard, having Glenn and Ray on the

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Speaker 6: wings constantly moving off the ball, how did that make

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Speaker 6: your life just easy as a point guard to facilitate

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Speaker 6: to them and like George said, when you needed to,

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Speaker 6: you could score the ball.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was so much fun because you know, you're

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Speaker 3: talking about two guys about running bats who shot TOLF

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Speaker 3: percentage and they like you got them guys the ball

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Speaker 3: in their sweet spots. Most likely it was going there

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Speaker 3: and when they did miss it was surprising to to

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Speaker 3: all of us, and it was a joy to be

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Speaker 3: out there with them guys. Man, them guys, was I

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Speaker 3: didn't feel anyone with them guys healthy. I mean, no

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Speaker 3: team we can score with any team. Teams cauldn't stop

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Speaker 3: us from scoring. George with his uh brows of dazzle offense.

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Speaker 3: We just played the game of basketball and it was

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Speaker 3: fun to play. Everyone had the green light on our

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Speaker 3: team until the last three or four minutes of the game,

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Speaker 3: and it was gonna be myself, Ray, Allen or Glenn

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Speaker 3: who's gonna take most of the shots. And our team

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Speaker 3: understood that. Our team understood that was gonna get probably

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Speaker 3: more shots than men Ray and and sometimes Ray might

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Speaker 3: get more shots than them that night. But uh, it

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Speaker 3: was fun for me, man, it was fun just just

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Speaker 3: having all them guys out there. I think George called

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Speaker 3: the game right, you know when he felt that I

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Speaker 3: was shooting a little bit too much here. You know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes he just get the ball on my hands and say, Sam,

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Speaker 3: you go to the corner where you bring it up.

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Speaker 3: It was just just that simple. If Glenn needed a shot,

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Speaker 3: he had called thirteen high picking well, he needed most

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Speaker 3: teams going to trap me or show on me, and

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Speaker 3: that would get Glenn enough for him to slip out

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Speaker 3: and make a shot that he was fifty five to

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Speaker 3: be sent at eighteen foot jump shot and left elbow.

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Speaker 5: So he did.

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Speaker 3: Coach did a good job just you know, putting us

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Speaker 3: in situations where we could be successful. And it was fun.

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Speaker 3: It was real fun play pay for the Milwaukee Bucks

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Speaker 3: that year.

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Speaker 2: It was I think you got to give him credit

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Speaker 2: to our big guys. Our big guys respected their rule. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Irvin Scott, Darvin and Jason Caffey. They knew they weren't

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Speaker 2: gonna get a lot of touches, and they knew that

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Speaker 2: their job was to get Sam, Glenn and Ray open

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Speaker 2: as much as possible.

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Speaker 4: And you know, a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of a lot of big guys owning grown about that.

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Speaker 2: It's complaine. You know, we don't have any plays for us.

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Speaker 2: And I thought the guys once we got it rolling

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Speaker 2: in a good direction. I mean, I think we won

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Speaker 2: like twenty three thirty games at one stretch, in a

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Speaker 2: stretch right after we started off really poor. And and

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Speaker 2: I'll be honest with you that there's two things I

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Speaker 2: take from that team that I in the when I

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Speaker 2: was in my later days here in the in Denver,

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Speaker 2: and also in my last part of my.

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Speaker 4: Career is we were an offensive team.

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Speaker 2: And what we could do is we could score one

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Speaker 2: hundred and ten at that time, one hundred and ten

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Speaker 2: against anybody, which even a good even against a good

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Speaker 2: defensive team. And our goal was we watched other teams

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Speaker 2: play and and you could play bad defense and they

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Speaker 2: couldn't score one hundred and ten. And so I learned that.

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Speaker 2: You know, most of my training always been defense first.

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Speaker 2: But I think where the game has come now twenty

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Speaker 2: years later is you got to be a balanced team,

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Speaker 2: and some teams are better offensively than defensively, and that's

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Speaker 2: acceptable now in the NBA. Back at twenty in the

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Speaker 2: beginning of the two thousands, everybody thought you won my defense.

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Speaker 4: You won everything by defense first. And I really.

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Speaker 2: Respect the big guys given accepting their role at a

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Speaker 2: very very high level of intensity. I mean, Scotty Williams

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Speaker 2: had a great year for US, Darvin Ham had a

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Speaker 2: good year for US, Jason Cavey played some good basketball

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Speaker 2: for US, and Irvin Johnson was the only one defender

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Speaker 2: that we had that could win the game with some

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Speaker 2: defense and some rebounding at times. And so I give

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Speaker 2: my tip, my hat off to those guys, because I

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Speaker 2: think everybody kind of early in the season was searching

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Speaker 2: for their role and and we got and we got

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Speaker 2: them in their role. And you know, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what Sam things, but for me over my career, it's

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Speaker 2: probably the one of the lesser talented teams that we

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Speaker 2: had that plays so well that we overachieved and surprised.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people.

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Speaker 5: MM.

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Speaker 6: I want to I want to go back to the

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Speaker 6: the end of the season before this one. So ninety

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Speaker 6: nine two thousand, you guys are sort of the middle

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Speaker 6: of the pack team, but you guys rip off a

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Speaker 6: nice little run at the end of the season, like

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Speaker 6: eleven to fifteen, you win, You squeak into the playoffs

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Speaker 6: and then you're you're playing the one seed Pacers and

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Speaker 6: you're literally one point away from upsetting them. And then

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Speaker 6: going into the offseason, there's a buzz in Milwaukee, like

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Speaker 6: you know, of all places, the Bucks are the sexy

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Speaker 6: pick to win the championship.

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Speaker 1: I'm taking I'm taking a news clip. Sam.

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Speaker 6: I want to ask you, like you've been in you know, La, Boston,

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Speaker 6: Houston in your life, bigger markets, what was it like,

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Speaker 6: what was the connection like with the city of Milwaukee

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Speaker 6: going into that season where they were just ecstatic. They

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Speaker 6: hadn't had a good team in a while. The eighties

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Speaker 6: were good, but the nineties were rough. Tell us a

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Speaker 6: little bit about just what the buzz and the vibe

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Speaker 6: was like with the city of Milwaukee.

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Speaker 3: Well, we we lost that five games the paces. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I will not forget it. Coach, you remember this, coach.

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Speaker 3: I was sitting in the locker room. I was just

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Speaker 3: disgusted because we had the league, that we had the lead,

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Speaker 3: and they won the game. They like George hid Freeze,

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Speaker 3: gave us a fast one. But hey, that's the part

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Speaker 3: of the game. And I remember sitting in the locker

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Speaker 3: room just disgusted, and everybody was on the team bus,

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Speaker 3: and you came back and got me. You got off

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Speaker 3: the bus and came back and locked one. I was

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Speaker 3: drinking a beer and you sat there next to me

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Speaker 3: and you popped the beer and you looked at me.

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Speaker 3: How hey, man, you know you took losses Ry Hall.

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Speaker 3: You took that lost heart and like you saw me

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Speaker 3: take that lot because we were the better team that night,

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Speaker 3: and we said it's gonna get better for us. We

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Speaker 3: know what it takes. Now we've been here. We got

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Speaker 3: a little scratch of it. That's the best they got.

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Speaker 3: We got to add a couple more pieces and we'll

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Speaker 3: be fine. We'll be fine. You know, we had opportunities

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Speaker 3: to win that game. I put my clothes on, took

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Speaker 3: shot my clothes and the bus, and that day I

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Speaker 3: felt so good. I told you, I said I would

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Speaker 3: never come in camp out of shape again. And our

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Speaker 3: whole team took a you know, we just knew that

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Speaker 3: going to the next year. And we got to a

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Speaker 3: slow start that next that year, and we just knew

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Speaker 3: that once we put this thing together. I got out

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Speaker 3: to a slow start. I know, I got out to

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Speaker 3: a slow start. I think Ray Allen was playing his

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Speaker 3: behind off as usual. But I got out to a

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Speaker 3: slow start. And I used to always tell me Sam,

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Speaker 3: Ray and Glenn at the coffee, but you the spoon

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Speaker 3: that stirs the coffee, yeh. And I just took that

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Speaker 3: that role in like I I got to be on

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Speaker 3: my game for this team to be up to par

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Speaker 3: where we have to be, man, and that was a great,

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Speaker 3: great run we had. I still think that we told

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Speaker 3: the one at game seven. You know, I bet my

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Speaker 3: house that Glenn Robins will never miss that shot again.

298
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Speaker 3: He took that shot right now, he would miss that

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Speaker 3: shot in the left corner on the tumbo. I bet

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Speaker 3: my house, all my houses right now that glim would

301
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Speaker 3: make that shot. But we missed it, and and it's

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Speaker 3: it's missing league and we missed and fully went on

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Speaker 3: to the finals.

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Speaker 5: And it was just that was a tough that was

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Speaker 5: tough to swallow. That was tough to swallow. I think

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Speaker 5: I need for a.

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Speaker 3: Fact that we had a chance to beat the Lakers

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Speaker 3: that year because we scored the ball.

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Speaker 5: You did well.

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Speaker 6: We'll get into all those playoffs series a little bit later.

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Speaker 6: I want to start just at the beginning of that season. Sam,

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Speaker 6: you mentioned it that you started three and nine. Uh,

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Speaker 6: maybe you guys weren't were really ready, George, after that start,

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Speaker 6: right you're berating them in the Lockerman practice, you actually

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Speaker 6: take it to the media and call your guys out,

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Speaker 6: specifically your best players, and you said, you know, you said,

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Speaker 6: there's a power in losing. Right when that happens, you

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Speaker 6: can leverage that. Can you speak a little bit about

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Speaker 6: you know, why you did publicly call out your team,

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Speaker 6: which some of them didn't appreciate naturally, But with that

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Speaker 6: power of losing.

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Speaker 1: What was going through your mind? Yeah, just walk us

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Speaker 1: through that.

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Speaker 2: Uh My feeling was, you know, coaches, you know, even

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Speaker 2: though calling a team out like that and calling out

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Speaker 2: your best players, you know, Sam, Glennon and Ray put

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Speaker 2: me in a position of hypocrisy. We have three grade scorers,

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Speaker 2: and so you have basically five guys on your team

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Speaker 2: that played fifteen or twenty minutes or more a game

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Speaker 2: that aren't going to touch them all much. And so

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Speaker 2: the hypocrisy I thought was building up that I thought

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Speaker 2: the players thought I was being too nice to Sam,

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Speaker 2: Ray and glenn.

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Speaker 4: That was my feeling.

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Speaker 2: I'm not no one ever came to me and said that,

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Speaker 2: but that was my feeling. And Sam, Ray and Glenn

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to phrase it, but they're not

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Speaker 2: the greatest practice players in the world.

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Speaker 4: And we were a team that needed some defensive.

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Speaker 2: Practice, you know, we needed because we weren't going to

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Speaker 2: be doing we didn't We.

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Speaker 4: Couldn't do it athletically.

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Speaker 2: We didn't have great defenders. It wasn't their forte it

344
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 2: wasn't their stread. But we needed everybody to do their

345
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Speaker 2: jobs a little bit better than they were doing them,

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Speaker 2: and mostly to be more demanding and pointant fingers at Sam,

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Speaker 2: Ray and Glenn, and then the hypocrisy settles down. You

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Speaker 2: win a few games, you get feeling good about life,

349
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Speaker 2: and you go on with the season. Sometimes when you

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Speaker 2: go after your best players at backfires. I didn't think

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Speaker 2: it backfired that year.

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Speaker 4: It worked. It worked that year.

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Speaker 6: Sam, do you remember those sort of series of events

354
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Speaker 6: and what the conversation was like among the players.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 3: It was easy because George he was telling the truth

357
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Speaker 3: that you know, we wasn't scoring the ball as we should.

358
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Speaker 3: We wasn't playing the defense, so our losses came more

359
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Speaker 3: often because we wasn't doing them two things. He wasn't defended.

360
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Speaker 3: Like I said, it wasn't scoring the ball the way

361
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Speaker 3: he knew that we could score. So you know, he

362
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Speaker 3: just called us out and he challenged me all the time,

363
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Speaker 3: and I never took a sense to it. I just

364
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Speaker 3: I just thought, that's with him. Then, who the great

365
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Speaker 3: coach is? He's challenging us? And it worked. It worked

366
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Speaker 3: because he said something in the immediate every day about us,

367
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Speaker 3: you know, went about the role players. It was about

368
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Speaker 3: you know, Ray, Plint and myself, which I think it

369
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Speaker 3: was a which was motivation because players always say they

370
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Speaker 3: don't look at the papers and read that stuff, but

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Speaker 3: most on the high.

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Speaker 5: Sit they really do. Was you know, and you look at.

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Speaker 3: The paper and George is going at us, you know,

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Speaker 3: just going at us, and I laughed it off.

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Speaker 5: So I knew, like, I just got to be better.

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Speaker 5: I got to be better.

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Speaker 3: Man, When I'm better, I think it'll be better, and

378
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Speaker 3: Glenn would be better. So I put the initiative to

379
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Speaker 3: just to be better in the office. And like George said,

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Speaker 3: just like hey, being the right place defensely being the

381
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,680
Speaker 3: right place deficiently, we switched a lot.

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Speaker 5: We switched one through four.

383
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Speaker 3: And if I switched on the big guy, he wanted

384
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Speaker 3: me to fight, to get in the front, and I

385
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 3: just put more effort in time and doing the things

386
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 3: that the team needed me to do to help the defense,

387
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Speaker 3: you know, become better. You know everybody, it was everybody's job.

388
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Speaker 3: It's not my job. Everybody job, I think Glenn, you know,

389
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 3: he was fronting the guys on the post ravers fronting guys.

390
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Speaker 3: And once we got that momentum man, like George said,

391
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Speaker 3: one of a few games, we felt good about ourselves.

392
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Speaker 3: We was doing We was following the game plan. And

393
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Speaker 3: once we followed the game plan, we knew our team

394
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Speaker 3: to beat us had to score a lot of points,

395
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Speaker 3: you know, but we eliminated some of that points and

396
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,680
Speaker 3: our jump shot started going. We were a jumpy shooting team,

397
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Speaker 3: the three of Us with Tim Thomas, Lindsey Hunter. Scott

398
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,159
Speaker 3: Williams was a rain shooting big who hit the elbow

399
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 3: jump shot, which you know was really was my lifeline.

400
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,119
Speaker 3: When we started certain Scott Williams in the lineup, I

401
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,640
Speaker 3: think that's when our season took off because Scott gave

402
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 3: us to mention that we didn't have We didn't have

403
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,439
Speaker 3: a five that can stress the court and make a

404
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 3: fifteenth for a jump shot, you know. And once he

405
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,479
Speaker 3: started making that jump shot consistently, you know, I know

406
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 3: for a fact, he opened my game up totally. Because

407
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,679
Speaker 3: now when the guys the big guy showed on me,

408
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,159
Speaker 3: I knew Scott Williams is gonna make that shot. And

409
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 3: I had so much confidence in him, and our team

410
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 3: has so much confidence in him to take big shots

411
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 3: and make big shot. Scott was a smart ball player.

412
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 3: He took charges. You know, he went to some terrible university. Uh,

413
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 3: I need to get a spark out of the Carolina

414
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 3: went to Carolina, Carolina to Carolina. That's why, That's why

415
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 3: George said something. But no, Scott was my Scott. I

416
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 3: think Scott George sertain Scott in the rotation. I think

417
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 3: our changes took off like that. So I give a

418
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 3: lot of credit to Scott Wins. Scott Widgs was one

419
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 3: guy who would voiced his opinion because he you know,

420
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 3: I won championships, but he also won championships. So he

421
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 3: was one guy of the big who would really voiced

422
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,640
Speaker 3: his opinion about how we play. If I missed him

423
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 3: a couple of times, he would come to the bench

424
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 3: and say something to me. If Glenn or Ray missed,

425
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 3: he would say something because realistically he was doing the

426
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 3: dirty work, you know, taking charges, rebound and getting us

427
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 3: the ball. So I think he was a big part

428
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 3: of that that the Big three, and we we really

429
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 3: missed in one particular game.

430
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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

431
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 2: Well, Dylan, we were three and nine, yep, and we

432
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 2: went on the road and we were playing Orlando on

433
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 2: I don't know, Tuesday or Wednesday night, and then the

434
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 2: next night in Miami, and it looked like we could

435
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 2: go three in the left You know we could be

436
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 2: three in e left. We beat Orlando, and I don't know, Sam,

437
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 2: if you remember we go to Miami, We're not like

438
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 2: eighteen points, We're not like fifteen or eighteen points, and

439
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 2: Lindsay Hunter goes crazy.

440
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: Then I was going to ask you that.

441
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 6: Lindsay Hunter, he actually came up when I was talking

442
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 6: to Metalworld Peace. He said he was like one of

443
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 6: the best defenders he'd ever came across, and he was

444
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 6: new on this team. You guys picked him up in

445
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 6: the offseason, So I wanted to just say that.

446
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: Go ahead with what you're gonna say.

447
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, Lindsay was one of our better dark defenders, but

448
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,360
Speaker 2: in that game he made like four or five threes.

449
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 4: I don't know, Sam, if you remember the game, it's

450
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 4: like a tie.

451
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 2: I think we're like down one with like fifty seconds ago,

452
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 2: and you and Anthony Mason jump ball and Sam jumps

453
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 2: up and grabs Anthony Mason's arm, and when you win

454
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: the jump ball, and when then Sam goes down in

455
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: pump fakes ac and he just filed and makes two

456
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 2: three throws and we win the game that we have

457
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: no right winning, no right winning. And I really think

458
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 2: that road trip spiraled us back into a good place.

459
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:37,479
Speaker 6: Mm hmm, well yeah, you guys rebound again fifty two wins.

460
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 6: I want to sort of talk about the the other

461
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 6: top guards in the league with you, Sam. It's something

462
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 6: that we do. Uh, A lot of guys say that

463
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 6: you were somebody that sort of busted their ass when

464
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 6: they first got into the league. Unorthodox style post up

465
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 6: in that time early two thousands.

466
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: Who were the point guards.

467
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 6: That maybe gave you a little bit of trouble on

468
00:23:58,400 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 6: the defensive end.

469
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 3: Gary Payton was one guy that you know, got me

470
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 3: pretty well. And Ron Strickland was another guy because he

471
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 3: put more offensive threat on me, made me play more

472
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 3: defense than offense because I had to try to stop him.

473
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 3: But uh, them two, them two guys really gave me

474
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 3: a lot of Brian Davis was a young guy who.

475
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 5: Was just proof six four sixty.

476
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 3: Five and just you know, got fast and big, had

477
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 3: a three points shot, had a good drive game that

478
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 3: didn't have a mid range. So just trying to figure

479
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 3: him out was a you know, it was a task

480
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 3: a loan. But Luke Van next, who was the guy

481
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 3: who came some problems because he could score the basketball.

482
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 3: But I just knew without team, no matter who he

483
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 3: was playing against. You, I had the ball in my

484
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 3: hand and I had just two great scores beside me.

485
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 3: So if I to them first, it's over, it's over.

486
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 3: And I got them my two guys, part of my

487
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 3: two guys raising big dog on the wings, make him

488
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 3: jump shots. You know, it's gonna be hard for any

489
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 3: team to beat us, hard for any teen to beat us.

490
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 3: And sometimes we lost with you know, Glenn having twenty eight.

491
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 3: I got twenty six and Ray got thirty one. You know,

492
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 3: we lost some games like that too. But most times

493
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 3: when he's scoring big and Ray's going big, Glenn's scoring

494
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 3: big and I'm scoring big, it was tough.

495
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 5: It was tough to beat us. It was real tough

496
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:25,959
Speaker 5: to beat us.

497
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 3: Because Scott Wills gonna sprinkle in his fourteen or twelve

498
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: or thirteen points. Tim Thom's gonna have his sixteen points,

499
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 3: thirteen points, Nice Lindsey might put in nine to eleven,

500
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 3: nine to ten points.

501
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 5: You know.

502
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 3: So we have so many weapons any given night that

503
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: you know, a certain guy can go out like Darwin

504
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 3: ham Might, you know, have a great offense rebound to night,

505
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 3: you know, and you know George had the rules. You

506
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: get an offense rebound and kick it off for three

507
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: and we make it and we win. It's one hundred dollars,

508
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. So darwth Ham got to

509
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 3: kick her doing that all the time, you know. And

510
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 3: one thing about George he did on time, He paid

511
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 3: on time.

512
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 6: I want to I want to pose to both of you.

513
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 6: You mentioned Ray not a forgotten guy at all. Everyone

514
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 6: knows he was great.

515
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: Sam.

516
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 6: You played with him later in Boston too. What's something

517
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 6: about Ray that you guys think might be forgotten or

518
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 6: that people don't don't really know about his game or

519
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 6: or personality.

520
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 3: You know what I'm Sam, I go, well, I think

521
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: Ray is one of the bad shot take a form

522
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 3: making making guys. I was saying, make him take some

523
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 3: off balanced shots, and for me it was like wow,

524
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 3: this shot go in. And he had a knack scoring

525
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 3: the ball off the dribble spot shooting. He was athletic,

526
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: He had a great jepard ability, He could finish layups

527
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: in huge hands. He was He was definitely one of

528
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: my all time best team makes to play with.

529
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 5: He was.

530
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 3: It was a good ball player. He was a good

531
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 3: good ball player. He never shot away from the moment.

532
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 3: He didn't mind taking the big shot. He made a

533
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 3: lot of big shots. Ray was just you to me.

534
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 3: He was a good teammate for me. I never had

535
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 3: a problem. His lock was next to my lock for

536
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 3: four years in Milwaukee. So just watching him pass for

537
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 3: games was was awesome because he you know, he put

538
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 3: a lot of time in his shooting. I put a

539
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 3: lot of time and his body just getting hmself ready

540
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 3: to play the game of basketball. So you know, I

541
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 3: had no never had a problem with Ray.

542
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 5: You know, Ray was was you know, he's a Hall

543
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 5: of Famer for a reason.

544
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 2: I think Ray was probably one of my most talented

545
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 2: players I've ever coached. Then I didn't get the most

546
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 2: out of a lot of players that I've coached, I

547
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: felt had maybe their best years under me. Ray would

548
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: go on to that have better years than he had

549
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 2: in Milwaukee. Even though I thought he had a major

550
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 2: All Star team. I think the year that we're talking about,

551
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: and I think that that catapulted him into being I'm

552
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: more of an All Star every year.

553
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 5: Ray.

554
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: People don't understand that Ray had some ball handling skill,

555
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 2: was a better passer than people think he is. We

556
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: would play, hit the ball in it, raising hands sometimes.

557
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: But to be honest with you, Reggie and Ray were

558
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: the first two guys that as a coach I wanted

559
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 2: ready to take ten.

560
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 4: Threes in a game because I know he's going to

561
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 4: make him.

562
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 5: And so.

563
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: Even though we weren't a big three point shooting team

564
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: back then, I thought Ray was one of the first

565
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: guys along with Reggie that kind of was that brought

566
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: the coaching saying, Hey, we gotta get this guy threes.

567
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 6: So you're you're encouraging him to just keep shooting three specifically.

568
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, when Ray.

569
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: When Ray got into the game, and it's usually because

570
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: he was making shots and and he also couldn't you

571
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: know of all the guys in the back court defensively

572
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: that I was yelling at. Sam has limitations, Glenn wasn't.

573
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: Glenn has some limitations, But Ray could have been could

574
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: have been a really good defender, and at times was

575
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: a really good defender.

576
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 4: Not as consistent as I, as a coach, would want,

577
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 4: but I really Ray was, and that we had Dale

578
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 4: Curry and Ray were the two best stump shooters I've

579
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 4: ever coached.

580
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: By far from the three point line. Now, Sam, Sam

581
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: inside the three point line. I guess Ray, I might

582
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: take Sam, hmm.

583
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 6: Interesting. So I want to get into the playoffs. Now,

584
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 6: you guys are going as the two seed. You go

585
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 6: up against an Orlando team with t Mac. The guy

586
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 6: who was also supposed to be with him was Grand Hill,

587
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 6: who was injured.

588
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 5: Right.

589
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 6: That was sort of the beginning of his unfortunate string

590
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 6: of injury. But it's a fun hypothetical to think about, right,

591
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 6: Grant Hill and t Mac at that time, you know,

592
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 6: to play the hypothetical game.

593
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: You know, Sam, what does that duo look like?

594
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 5: You know, Oh, it's been fantastic, you know.

595
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: I think Grant Hill was one of the best transition

596
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 3: players during that time of basketball. He was tough to

597
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: stop and transition. It was a great layup Mega had

598
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 3: a great pull up jump shot. It wasn't a great

599
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 3: three point shoot, it but his pull up jump shot

600
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 3: six foot eight fans.

601
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 5: T Mac was a guy who has flat.

602
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 3: Out scored of basketball and three point shot, post game,

603
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 3: mid range layups, athletics.

604
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 5: That's been It's been a nice matchup.

605
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: But I, you know, with Grant Hill out there, I

606
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 3: still think that you know, our team that year we

607
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: was were knocking on all cylinders man we had you know,

608
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: you know GLIM was getting twenty something, twenty three, twenty

609
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 3: four at night, but it was getting twenty two or

610
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: twenty three at night.

611
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 5: I was getting eighteen nineteen at night.

612
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 3: So you know, we still had time to do a

613
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 3: lot more with that ball club. I think being scared

614
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 3: of that matchup with Grant Hill and t Mac, it

615
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: has been tough, but uh, I think we still could

616
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 3: have won.

617
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 5: I think we still could.

618
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: Have won absolutely because we had our team is so

619
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 3: so deeper and we knew where the ball was going

620
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: hands the ball was gonna be in Grant Hill and

621
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 3: t Max. But like you said, Grant wasn't there. And

622
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 3: we've seen a lot of t Mac that seris a

623
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 3: lot of.

624
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 6: Well that that's that you just got to worry about

625
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 6: taking him out, which is hard, but they don't have

626
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 6: many other guys that.

627
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: Can beat you.

628
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 6: But then that that that guys, that gave you guys confidence. Georgie,

629
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 6: I remember you saying that it was a nice start.

630
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 6: You win in four pretty pretty handily, and then it

631
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 6: leads you into the Charlotte series, which you've said multiple

632
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 6: times might be your favorite playoff series.

633
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: That that you ever coached.

634
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 6: You guys go up to two to oh, then down

635
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 6: three to two and end up winning in seven. Walk

636
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 6: me through and just tell us a little bit about

637
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 6: why that was maybe your favorite series that you've ever

638
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:25,239
Speaker 6: been a part of.

639
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 4: Well, they, I mean every NBA series has momentum swings,

640
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 4: and you know, we we say the first two and

641
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 4: I think we did a little arrogant when you're a

642
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 4: little fed up with ourselves a little bit too much.

643
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 4: And the next three games the style of the game

644
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 4: changed back to kind of a low possession power game,

645
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 4: big man game, Jamal Mashburn kicking our ass game, Brad

646
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 4: Baron Davis getting more Baron. I think Baron was somewhat

647
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 4: of a young player then, but all suddenly he was

648
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 4: realizing he was a damn good player.

649
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: The second year, I think.

650
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was the guy I was scared of

651
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: in game seven, to be honest with you, when we

652
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: got to game seven.

653
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 4: But Game six and Charlotte was one of my.

654
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: Favorite games I've ever coached. We got down seventeen or

655
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: eighteen points early in the first half, and you know,

656
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 2: we could have we could have broken apart, but we came.

657
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 4: Together and I think Ray had the big game.

658
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that my recollection as Ray had a

659
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: big time fourth quarter, and you know.

660
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 4: We fought back, got the lead in the fourth quarter

661
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 4: or went home.

662
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: Sam also he had thirty three in that game six.

663
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 5: Sam or Ray Sam?

664
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 2: Okay, Sam might have been the guy got going, But

665
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: I mean it was a very close series with a

666
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: lot of momentum swings in Game seven was old school,

667
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: low scoring, defensive minded game, and I think we went

668
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 2: it basically with it because we had the home court

669
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: and at that time to Milwaukee and the streets of

670
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 2: Milwaukee were going crazy crazy. I mean, there was one

671
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: of the wildest cities I've ever been in. It's kind

672
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: of like, I think, what's happening in Phoenix and Milwaukee

673
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 2: right now. They're so hungry for a championship. But Milwaukee

674
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 2: got behind us. There was a street party every game,

675
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: people walking around the city and it's always fun playing

676
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 2: at the end of May early.

677
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 6: June, Sam, I know, you guys were a confident group.

678
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 6: You go down three to two, who's the guy in

679
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 6: the locker roomors, it's sort of all of you that

680
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,959
Speaker 6: are just banding people together, keeping everybody's head straight and

681
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 6: reminding people that you know, it's no problem down three two.

682
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: It was so crazy that I'm getting my pregame net

683
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 3: just watching the news and the Charlotte news, and they

684
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 3: they got the parade going, they got the balloons, Ray.

685
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 5: Fall out, the sailing, they got everything.

686
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 3: Like the game was like, we haven't even played the

687
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 3: game yet.

688
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 5: Played the game and.

689
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 3: George came to the locker room and say, hey, yes,

690
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 3: it's like they count watching the news in Charlotte. They

691
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 3: didn't won the game already, like wow, it just walked

692
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 3: off the locker room. Another sitting there with Glenn and

693
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,439
Speaker 3: I said, man, come on, I need you to be Glenn.

694
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 3: I need to be the big dog today. He said

695
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: to me, I need you to be Sam Man. I

696
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 3: need you to be Sam I am and I said,

697
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 3: I told Ray. Ray came to locker whom you know,

698
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 3: reading the book or something. I said, Ray, you gotta

699
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 3: be special to night. And we got down, Like George said,

700
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 3: we got down.

701
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 5: We got down.

702
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 3: And one of the best speeches I've had a coach

703
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 3: give me was George Card told us album he was

704
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 3: there like eleven points of like nine minutes to go,

705
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 3: nine minutes to go in the game, so time out,

706
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 3: and he just sat down in his chair and he

707
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: went down every player.

708
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 5: He said, Glenn, I need you to be who you

709
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 5: are right now. I don't need you second guess yourself.

710
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 3: Needs to be who you are. Sam, run your team.

711
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 3: This is your team. Run your team.

712
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 5: Be who you are. This is the moment you live for.

713
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 5: He just went down a whole line, right, be that shooting.

714
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 3: We need you to be Scott rebound the ball, Earvon Johnson,

715
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 3: defend the basket.

716
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 4: He just read it.

717
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 3: Just went down the whole line and uh in two

718
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 3: minutes and he made a very very great point, like, guys,

719
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: be who you're are. This game is not over, you know.

720
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: And we just rebounded and just and just came and

721
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 3: won that game. And I just remember going in the

722
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 3: locker room, walking to the locker room and telling Dark

723
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 3: Coleman because a good friend of mine said, bring your

724
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,760
Speaker 3: ass back to Milwaukee. Now, come on back down to Milwaukee.

725
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 3: He just shook his head, said, boy, I don't want

726
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 3: to go down there. And he knew that Game seven

727
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: was be hard for them to win. And we went

728
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 3: down there and like George said that, the fans was unbelievable,

729
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 3: just like it is now, but I think there was

730
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 3: more fans now, you know, in Milwaukee right now.

731
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 5: But the streets in Milwaukee, you know, Dave was we

732
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 5: got home, they was. It was crazy. It was I

733
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 5: think it was an afternoon game he beat.

734
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 3: It was like a three o'clock, two o'clock game. And man,

735
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 3: the streets was going crazy just driving to the game,

736
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 3: seeing like six or seven hundred people outside the rain are.

737
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 5: Just waiting, you know, having a little block party. It was.

738
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 5: It was. It was a good moment for the city

739
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 5: of Milwaukee for foul Ball.

740
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 1: Club, no doubt, no doubt.

741
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 6: And then so you guys wining seven heroically, and then

742
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 6: we go to the Philly series. I'm not going to

743
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 6: sit here and ask you guys, was that series rigged.

744
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 6: I mean you can, you can. You can look at

745
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 6: the stats. They shot like sixty five more free throws

746
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 6: than you guys. Technicals, flagrants all went to you guys.

747
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 6: But what I want to talk about is, like, you know,

748
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 6: you guys losing, and after you lose a game or

749
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 6: a series, there's usually things that you can look back

750
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 6: on and say, you know, maybe we didn't attack this

751
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 6: guy enough, Maybe our our defensive schemes weren't up to par.

752
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 6: But with that series, like, is there anything that you

753
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 6: know schematically or like from a game plan perspective that

754
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 6: you could have done better? Because Iverson averages thirty but

755
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 6: he shoots like thirty five percent from the floor, Ray

756
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 6: torches it, Sam and Glenn play well too. So if

757
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 6: you look from the outside, like you guys do your job,

758
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 6: the star players show up and you handle their star

759
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 6: So like, looking back on it now, like, is there

760
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 6: anything that you guys think you could have done differently

761
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 6: to change the outcome of that series?

762
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: Well, and on my part, you know I was dismissing.

763
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 3: You know, I've dismissed our team is missing Scott Williams.

764
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 3: We've belied during that time of the year.

765
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, we really.

766
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 3: Belied on Scott Williams. Scott Williams gave us outlet we had.

767
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 3: We had three guys technically pick a row basketball and

768
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 3: if you didn't trap us or put two bodies in

769
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 3: front of us, most likely we're gonna score.

770
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 5: Losing.

771
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 3: Scott Williams gave us, gave me my I'm talking about

772
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 3: me personally, gave you like they took my lifeline a

773
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 3: way because I knew Scott Wisdom make a fifteen foot

774
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 3: jump shot all around the basketball called elbows wings. So

775
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 3: not having them out there, you know, and limited l

776
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 3: office output. And they just packed they just they just

777
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 3: packed the paint on it. They just packed the paint.

778
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 3: They trapped us. We didn't have We had Irvin john

779
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 3: stout there at Jason Caffey who made who played pretty well,

780
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 3: pretty good that game, but he wasn't Scott Williams. You know,

781
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 3: Scott Williams was automatically from fifteen foot jump shot to

782
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 3: the elbow. He was automatic, you know, for a big

783
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 3: guy to make that jump shot. And losing him, really,

784
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 3: I think that was the part of how we lost

785
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 3: the game. We still had chances to win the game,

786
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 3: but losing Scott was really and the guy we missed.

787
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 3: And I think if he was out there, so I

788
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 3: think we had good.

789
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 5: Chances to getting to the May Finals.

790
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: I think the big thing in the series that it

791
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: was just how the karma of the series turned against

792
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 2: us between Game six and seven. We blow them out

793
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 2: in Game six, uh, and I might have made a

794
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 2: coaching mistake and Larry Brown did something I thought that

795
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 2: I always remember. He played ai in the fourth quarter

796
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: of that game, and AI found some rhythm in the

797
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 2: fourth quarter of that game, were I think we're up

798
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 2: like thirty points, and they and AI played and got

799
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 2: some rhythm. Then they suspense Scott Williams on the airplane

800
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: flight like a Ford airplane flight. On the airplane flight

801
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 2: to Philadelphia.

802
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 6: Just to give a brief little bit of context, he

803
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 6: gets a flagrant just for the people. He gets a

804
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 6: flagrant in game six that they call flagrant one, and

805
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 6: then when you guys are on the airplane they change

806
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 6: it to a flagrant two, which is over the limit,

807
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 6: which is crazy.

808
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,959
Speaker 5: But just the credit.

809
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a little bit of contract.

810
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: And and and Scott Williams was kind of our intimidator

811
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: the Matombo and ad Tyron Hill and they might have

812
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: had another bully in there.

813
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 4: Too, and Scott was the guy was standing up to

814
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 4: those guys.

815
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 5: And so.

816
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: You know, you took our size out of the game

817
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: with Scott plus our guy, as Sam says, a guy

818
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 2: can make a jumper.

819
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 4: But he was kind of our angry guy.

820
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 2: He was the guy that going there and and and

821
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: and did in the elbow and asshole game with no

822
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 2: problem with all.

823
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 4: And uh, then we took him.

824
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 2: Out and then Ray all in the second quarter I think,

825
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: gets hurt, sprays his actle yep, and he's out, and

826
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: Sam and I have a little discussion, and Sam, I

827
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: thought tried to do it a little bit too much

828
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: at the end in the in the seventh game, you

829
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 2: try to you try to take it.

830
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 5: On his on his shoulder.

831
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: I respect that, but instead of trying to figure out

832
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 2: the flow, I think when we lost Ray, we kind

833
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 2: of broke apart.

834
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 4: A little bit trying to find the answer.

835
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: You know, we knew the answer was going to be

836
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: difficult to find, and I thought sometimes, you know, you know,

837
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 2: that's where I think Sam and I could have been

838
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 2: maybe tighter with. But it's a very difficult situation because

839
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: that's the one game where AI played pretty well.

840
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 5: M h.

841
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 6: M. Well, so you guys lose right seven games, and

842
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 6: it's sort of a fascinating study, right the team, Like

843
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 6: the next year you missed the playoffs, and then the

844
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 6: year after that pretty much all broken up. And it

845
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 6: happens like that, I guess, just like what happened, Like,

846
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 6: you know, you bring in Mason, that's one thing. Rey

847
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 6: gets traded into two thousand and two, two thousand and three,

848
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 6: But like you know, it all happens in the blink

849
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 6: of the eye. I guess oppose it to both of

850
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 6: you saying maybe you start like you know what happened there.

851
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,479
Speaker 3: I just think we've been to gathers for so long

852
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 3: and we reached the level of success that we thought

853
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 3: that we could reach, and it became Oh, basketball was

854
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 3: always fun for me because George always challenged me. So

855
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 3: we made the trade for Gary Payton. George called me

856
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: to his taught me to the to his.

857
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 5: Room and he was in Portland, in Portland putting us see,

858
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 5: I know.

859
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 3: He's going to Seattle, and he told me that he's

860
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 3: gonna make a move and oh, how do I like playing?

861
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 3: How can I can man carry? Peyton co exists? So

862
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 3: I thought he was coming to the room that he's

863
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 3: gonna trade me, and he's asked me how.

864
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 5: Came in Gary Payton? Is this? I said, I have

865
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 5: to play with anybody?

866
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 3: And I think it was like five six games out

867
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 3: of the playoffs at this particular time, because we was

868
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 3: not gonna make the playoff with the team we had,

869
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 3: you know, because it's just the.

870
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 5: The matrix of the team wasn't good.

871
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 3: And we got Gary Payton and Desmin Mason from Seattle

872
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 3: and placed Seattle that night and they blew us out.

873
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 5: They beat the Brakes off of us.

874
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 3: So Gary Payton joined the team in Portland, and George

875
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 3: started me and Gary at the one and two and

876
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 3: we just played well and just this emergence of Michael Rigg.

877
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 3: So Michael rid was our third guard. George, I'm gonna

878
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 3: play three guards, three guard rotations. Sometimes we might add

879
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 3: another fourth guard, but three guard rotation between me, Michael

880
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 3: Ridd and Gary Payton. You know, Gary Payton was the

881
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 3: first one to come out. Mike Ridd come in getting

882
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 3: the second quarter. Gary Payton came in for.

883
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 5: Me and it worked. We want some games. We got

884
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 5: on the road.

885
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 3: The team knew that this is gonna be Gary and

886
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 3: Sam show, and we just you know, made it to

887
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 3: the playoff. I think, yeah, we used to ain't see

888
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 3: against the next you know, being like six games out

889
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 3: of the playoffs, with like fourteen games to go. We

890
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,879
Speaker 3: put together a good run and I'm gp I gained

891
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 3: some suspective by knowing how much of a winner Gary

892
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 3: Payton is.

893
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 5: Man.

894
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 3: He just you know, some times when you know, it

895
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 3: got tough for me on the basketball court and he say, man,

896
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 3: come on, now to do Now, come on, I'm here right,

897
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 3: I'm here right along with you.

898
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 5: Let's go. And he just he forced me to become

899
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 5: a better basketball player. You know.

900
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 3: He forced me to get more, get more, you know,

901
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 3: shoot more. He told me one day, if you're going

902
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 3: to be I'll score down a stretch. You gotta shoot more.

903
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 3: You know, before the game. You got to get to

904
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 3: proper work and you gotta start, you know, thinking like

905
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 3: you're close it. And he sometimes he closed games a lot,

906
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 3: but he depended on me to be the guy who closed.

907
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 3: I had, like George said, I had a unique ability

908
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 3: to getting fouled.

909
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 5: I had.

910
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: I had a devastating pump fate to get guys in

911
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: the air. And I was an eight eighty five pree

912
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 3: throw shooters. Most likely I was gonna make the free throws.

913
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 3: Guary just gave us that toughness that that you're not

914
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 3: gonna know, you're not gonna mess with us, you know,

915
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 3: Gary Payton and the Mason out there. You know it

916
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 3: was and we had Earvin Johnson, we had Big Joe

917
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 3: Prince Billa. Yeah, it was a rookie who well, George

918
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: started who George don't know, George don't like too many rookies,

919
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 3: but George like this one rookie.

920
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 5: You know, you know, we like but he started. But

921
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 5: it was good. It was good. We made play off.

922
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 5: You know, we lost six games to the Nets, but

923
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 5: it was good. It was good, George.

924
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 6: I mean, I think a lot of Milwaukee fans unfortunately

925
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 6: blame you for Ray leaving, right, But you guys had

926
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 6: a good relationship and then maybe something went down. Walk

927
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,959
Speaker 6: us through what happened there, because everything was I mean.

928
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to jump on anybody, but

929
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 2: you know, the trade did hurt. I mean, the thing

930
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: that hurt our team was we got rid of Scott.

931
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 2: We thought we got a better player and Anthony Mason,

932
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: and it just didn't work. I mean, it was there

933
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 2: was just a negative energy.

934
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 4: It was.

935
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 2: It became a confront confrontational team. Uh, you know, I

936
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 2: mean against them a little bit too much.

937
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 6: Uh.

938
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 2: And then we don't make the playoffs. And you know,

939
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 2: in the summertime, I went to Senator Cole and I

940
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 2: I said to him.

941
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 4: Myself, I think we gotta get rid of Anthony Mason.

942
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 4: And he said, it was your choice. You got to

943
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 4: live with him. You gotta make it work with him.

944
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: And and Anthony Mason's a hell of a basketball player,

945
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: but he's a negative energy.

946
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 5: You got.

947
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 4: He likes to point.

948
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 2: Fingers, he likes to call people out, and that was

949
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 2: not the We didn't have that type of team. I mean, I,

950
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 2: oh my god, I called guys out and having another

951
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 2: guy do that was just a little bit, probably too much,

952
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:13,240
Speaker 2: too much. And I mean, Sam, Sam, I remember sometimes

953
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 2: he'd be mumbling things. You wore a mouthpiece. I never

954
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 2: understood what he said. But I think if the one

955
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: thing I would I would say that we made a

956
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: trade thing and we were going to get better, and

957
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 2: we didn't get better. And at that time, Milwaukee's small

958
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: market team didn't want to trade contract. You know, everything

959
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 2: was had to be financially reasonably acceptable, and getting rid

960
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: of or just eating Anthony Mason's contract just wasn't in

961
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 2: the cards.

962
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 6: Sam, I know we're gonna wrap up soon, but sort

963
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 6: of as a coach now an in philiate team that

964
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 6: has a superstar and has a real window, does this

965
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 6: experience that window closing so quickly in the blink of

966
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 6: an eye, Like, does that stick with you and make

967
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 6: you think if you have a window like it's got

968
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 6: to be.

969
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 5: Now.

970
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 6: There's a lot of talk about, oh, you know you

971
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 6: can get some younger players get draft picks, but does

972
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 6: that Does this season sort of teach you that windows

973
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 6: in the NBA can open and close in the blink.

974
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 5: Of an eye. It happens that way sometimes. I've been

975
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 5: to see twenty eight years and.

976
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 3: You have to take advantage of opportunities when it was

977
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 3: ined to you because you never know what may happen.

978
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 3: You know, injuries, guys may just have a bad Yeah,

979
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 3: but I think out team, you know there's a lost opportunity.

980
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 3: I think can this team get back to the standard? Yes,

981
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 3: definitely get back. You know, you got a great group

982
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 3: of guys. Everybody just got to do their part better,

983
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 3: you know, just as simple, I think we coach these

984
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 3: guys hard, uh, very very enjoyable group of guys to

985
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 3: be around.

986
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 5: Its canational better. But I think this team learns something.

987
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 3: About themselves about how and why you got to take

988
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 3: advantage of opportunities and you know, next year we just

989
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 3: got to do.

990
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 5: Things better, more harder. What do win in mind frame,

991
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 5: I think that's not a hard task. This team.

992
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 3: This team does like each other. This team, you know,

993
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 3: don't point the fings at each other. This team is

994
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 3: coach hard. This team, you know, understand like nothing is

995
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 3: given to you in the playoffs, So you got to

996
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 3: take advantage. She's got to take advantage of me. And

997
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 3: I think that's our job as coaches. Could our guys

998
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 3: understand that more? And I think, you know, with doctor,

999
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 3: you know, be in our group, we will do it.

1000
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 4: I think the one thing about that team back in Milwaukee.

1001
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 2: That you know, the holding game, you know, the power

1002
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: of the NBA that fans don't understand is sixteen teams

1003
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: make the playoffs. Fourteen don't. Those fourteen were working their

1004
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: tail off to get into the playoffs. And I think

1005
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 2: sometimes when you get into the playoffs and you have success,

1006
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 2: you get a little complacent, You get a little happy

1007
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: with yourself. And I think the combination of the Mason

1008
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:43,439
Speaker 2: trade and a couple other things probably along the way,

1009
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 2: instead of coming together, that team separated and their management

1010
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 2: had to make a decision on what to do, and

1011
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 2: sometimes they backed me.

1012
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 4: I think that.

1013
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 2: I mean, I never wanted to trade ray Allen, but

1014
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 2: I think Ray Allen wanted to be traded. That never

1015
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 2: comes out even though he might deny that.

1016
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 4: I know he had meetings with.

1017
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 2: Senator Cole about that, So I I mean, I wish

1018
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 2: there are that I might I honestly, Ray Allen's a

1019
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: hell of a player and a good person, and for

1020
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 2: whatever reason, the decisions of NBA basketball, it just didn't

1021
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 2: work out.

1022
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 5: M M.

1023
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 6: Well, I think, like we all said, you know, throughout

1024
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 6: the episode, it was a special team. It was short lived,

1025
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 6: but unique, the Big Three. Uh, Pete, ray Allen, you

1026
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:42,720
Speaker 6: got Sam at the at the height of his powers.

1027
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 6: I guess just you know, both you and any last words,

1028
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,439
Speaker 6: just as he watched the Bucks and the Milwaukee fans

1029
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 6: go crazy right now in the finals, any of these

1030
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 6: last thoughts or last words before we go.

1031
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 3: Just two there's two cities to stop, like Coast earlier,

1032
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 3: there's just two cities just starving to win the NBA championship.

1033
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 3: You know, Milwaukee has did it before, but it's been

1034
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight. It's been a long time.

1035
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 5: Seventies, a long time.

1036
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 3: Kareem Oskar, Yeah, but I played for both organizations. No,

1037
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 3: not long in Phoenix, you know, but one of my

1038
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 3: best stops. So you know, I think Marti Done is

1039
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 3: doing a great job coaching that ball club. That team

1040
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 3: comes out and play hard every night, win and lose.

1041
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 3: You know, you got to compete against the Phoenix Suns.

1042
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 3: I think Milwaukee has that work cutout from him. But

1043
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 3: this is gonna be a good serious you know, you

1044
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 3: got to win four, not three, not two, not one,

1045
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 3: get the four. I think I think Milwaukee got a

1046
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 3: great chance. But Chris Paul is hungry man. He's hungry.

1047
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 3: He's hungry, and I'm just just sitting. Can just watch

1048
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 3: them always good for me. I feel good when I

1049
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 3: watched Frons. I know that city that goes into it.

1050
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 3: I've been a part of three of them before, and

1051
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 3: I understand, like, wow, this is what it's all about.

1052
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 3: Everybody's watching you. The game comes on at nine o'clock Eastern,

1053
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 3: so so you're the only thing on TV. You know,

1054
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 3: if you're not a crazy baseball fans at nine o'clock,

1055
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 3: so you know, you you're playing your parties, you're playing everything.

1056
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 3: You're playing your day around being in front of a

1057
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 3: TV somewhere a ball lounge and confinement at your house.

1058
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 3: But it's it's it's fun man to see both cities,

1059
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 3: the fans just walking up to the Rainers and getting excited.

1060
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. I've been a part of

1061
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 3: the Milwaukee atmosphere. I saw playing in Houston the Phoenix atmosphere.

1062
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 3: When Phoenix the Suns have good basketball teams, it gets

1063
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 3: kind of crazy in that desert boy. But because the

1064
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 3: Suns fans are definitely out, Butlwaukee fans are united and

1065
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 3: they they starving for this. They want this just like

1066
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 3: the Suns fans. So it's it's fun to watch it,

1067
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 3: serious to watching them.

1068
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 5: No that will come of it. It can be whoever

1069
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 5: win it deserves it.

1070
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 4: I'll just piggyback off it.

1071
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 2: You know, two or three weeks ago, I sweet it

1072
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 2: out and I thought I thought Phoenix found the magic.

1073
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 2: I just the way they're playing away, Chris Paul's possessed

1074
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 2: Bookers growing up is playing unbelievably well, and the bench

1075
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 2: guys are really playing with confidence. There's so many things

1076
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 2: they have going that Milwaukee's going to have a tough challenge.

1077
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 2: But for me, I would probably want Milwaukee to win.

1078
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: I think the city of Milwaukee deserves a championship. And

1079
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: do I think it's going to happen.

1080
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 5: No.

1081
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 2: I think Phoenix is a better team, but in the

1082
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 2: same sense. I love the energy is back in Milwaukee

1083
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 2: and I hopefully they can keep.

1084
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:58,760
Speaker 4: It back in Milwaukee.

1085
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 6: Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens. And thank

1086
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 6: you both for joining Forgotten Seasons today. This was a pleasure,

1087
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 6: Sam George, Thank you guys for coming on. Thank you

1088
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 6: Forgotten Seasons with Sam Cassel and George Carl on the

1089
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 6: two thousand and one Bucks That was a really special one.

1090
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 6: Thank you guys for listening and for your continued support.

1091
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:24,399
Speaker 6: We have a ton of Forgotten Seasons on the way

1092
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 6: with some amazing guests, so be sure to subscribe and

1093
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 6: review if you haven't already. You can find Forgotten Seasons

1094
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 6: on Instagram and Twitter, and visit truth plus media dot

1095
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 6: com for more in depth looks at these amazing stories

1096
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 6: from NBA history and stay tuned there are more Forgotten

1097
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Speaker 6: Seasons on the way.