WEBVTT - ‘The Points Guy’ Brian Kelly on Maximizing Travel Rewards 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:06.800 This is Master's in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.320 My special guest today is Brian Kelly, better known as 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.920 the Points Guy. Uh. The firm now gets ten million 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.040 unique visitors to their website each month. It was launched 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:23.600 in sold to bank Rate in bank Rate was bought 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:28.440 by Red Ventures in the firm now has over sixty employees. 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:30.600 Is that right? Well, the Points Guy itself is over 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.920 a hundred employees. Over a hundred. Wow. Well, Brian Kelly, 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:38.200 welcome to Blue Thanks. So I'm kind of intrigued about 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:43.640 the Points Guy site. Um, when I got a Amex 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.519 Platinum card in the office, I gave up my Amex 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:52.199 Gold card at home and ultimately wanted to replace it 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:56.480 with something which became the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. And 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.960 then I went to your site and said, turned out 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:01.680 that that was a really good decision. Tell us a 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.039 little bit about the points Guy site. Who's your audience 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.720 and who you're targeting? Absolutely? Yeah, So the Points Guy 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.840 I started this as a fun side thing in I 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.120 used to work at Morgan Stanley. I was in HR, 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.520 traveling a ton and I was just I've always been 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:18.319 really really good at points like even going back to 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:20.760 the nineties. But it started it's just a hobby site 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.440 where I would, you know, blog about one post a 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:25.520 day on how to use am X points or how 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.520 to fly to Paris. And you know, no one really 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:33.200 read it for about six months and months aware because 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.679 then it just took off somehow, you know, it started 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.200 to catch and I wrote about one deal, and you know, 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.880 it really started off with consultants. I mean, you know, 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:42.800 the consultans who are on the road four days a week. 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.040 They started reading my site and sharing it like crazy. 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:47.520 Didn't eventually make its way to a big New York 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.040 Times article fairly early on. So it was April of 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.160 eleven that Seth Coogel, the Frugal Traveler columnist of the 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.080 New York Times. He's a very cynical person, he said, 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:01.080 freaking flyer miles or pointless for budget travelers unless you 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.440 can prove me otherwise. And it was actually sitting in 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:07.160 my spam inbox for like two months, like cleaning out 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.560 one day and I'm like, what times this is crazy. 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.280 I met up with them and I said, are you crazy? 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.600 I'm like, budget travelers are the number one people who 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.000 should be maximizing points. I met up with them at 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:20.040 a bar in New York for three hours. He booked 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.400 a trip to Brazil that day and coach, but he 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.520 saved a thousand bucks. He was blown away, and a 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.000 couple of weeks later he wrote this crazy article that 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.040 was like the number one travel site everyone needs to know. 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.560 And I just remember sitting at my cubicope Morgan Stanley 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.120 being like, oh my god, my life is going to change, 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.640 you know, the New York because my site crashed with traffic. 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:42.079 Emails were coming in and I knew all along that, 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:43.960 you know, everyone has points and no one knows how 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.200 to use them. But that was when it really got 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.440 put on the map. Um, when did you come to 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.160 the conclusion that hey, this is a business? Was it 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.640 the Times article? Before the Times article helped propel it? 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:56.960 It was actually before. So if I started the blogging 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:01.880 June of it was February. A friend from college he 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.160 had kept emailing me saying, Brian, Brian, you're writing about 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.000 credit cards all day. You're a moron because you're linking 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.040 directly to American Express dot com. And he had worked 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.480 for a company called links Share, which is now Racutan. 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.040 In their affiliate marketing. And he said, if you get 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.520 into my program, I can get you in. You know, 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:22.840 you can get paid two hundred dollars per credit card approval. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:24.959 And I remember at that time, I had like fifty 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.000 thousand monthly readers, and I was like two hundred bucks. 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.399 I'm like, I only need like one percent of one 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:35.600 percent to make this thesite exactly. So he got me 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.600 in in February, and uh, and it was amazing. I 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:40.760 was just writing the same exact content, but I was 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.680 just using his links instead of directly to that. And 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:49.040 so there's like an Amazon affiliate marketing and and unbeknownst 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.720 to me, credit cards are like the uh you know, 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.440 the ace in affiliate marketing because it was actually more 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.920 than two. Some cards were paying five, but it wasn't 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.280 per click like most. They had to open account. And 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.200 my readers, my readers were bankers, lawyers, and consultants who 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.280 live in New York, l A, and Chicago. Talk about 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.280 Taylor me. So I was joking about I was blogging 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.880 on a gold mine. And you know, so I started 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.640 putting those links in, and you know, because these credit 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.800 cards are the best way to get points. It was 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:20.760 so organic. No one even said a word. I mean, 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:22.960 I put my disclosures. Hey guys, I'm gonna fill it. 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.479 And then the first I got nervous that people would 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:27.040 think I'm doing it just for money, because that's never 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.520 how it started out. But my readers, who are smart 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.400 people in business, were like sending me high five emails 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.160 like Buddy, I sent your links to my whole family, 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.479 like I want you to I want you to be successful. 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.400 And that was a really cool moment when I was like, 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.960 wait a minute, I can provide good content for freedom. 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.240 My readers. They use my link and they're just clicking 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.160 on its click here, Chase same or better offer them 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.080 what they're getting anyway. So so I love the story 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:56.600 where so now you have the affiliate marketing links running 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.599 for a couple of weeks or months, and then one 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:04.160 week ends something happens, you linked to something and suddenly 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.720 boom dollars over the weekend. It was crazy. Yeah, well 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:09.920 I mean that so it was a perfect storm. That 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:11.960 day the New York Times came out was actually the 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.320 day that Chase had launched a British Airways hundred thousand 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.920 point offer, and I knew that was gonna be really 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:19.960 popular with my readers because most of the time, you know, 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.919 back in the late two thousand, I mean late what 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:28.039 do you call them the odds two um, you know, 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.919 credit card bonuses were like twenty five thousand free flight, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.720 you know. And then you know, once the recession. Out 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:35.000 of the recession, I think a lot of the credit 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.560 card companies were like, you know, we really missed the 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.960 boat on millennials and getting this new era of consumers, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.960 so they started raising the bonuses, and it you know, 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.120 benefited my sight because I was just writing, you know, 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.600 here's how you get to get the most out of 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.919 British Airways miles. And the trick was not flying British 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.239 Airways because they have crazy high fees on their award tickets. 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.320 So I was just writing these little posts about, you know, 0:05:57.360 --> 0:05:59.839 if you want to go to Machu Picchu or Easter Island. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.719 Was amazing deals using British Airways miles back then because 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:04.800 they were a one World partner. So these things that 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.400 I had known for years, you know, the average consumer 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.520 didn't realize that, wait a minute, I've got a boatload 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.200 of miles and this is how I can go to 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.440 Hawaii or Miami. So um, and then the new York 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.120 Times article came out, which not just you know that 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.200 day traffic. But I had no idea what s c 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.480 O was. I knew Google like me because my site 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:24.960 was growing month over month, But that day that you 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:29.440 get that New York Times link, they still swing a 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.520 lot of weight. Yeah, I mean, so that's why you know, 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:35.960 we getting uh making sure using press to help you know, 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.680 buoy the site. That's what There's been a lot of 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:40.719 other bloggers in the space, none have really cracked it 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:45.000 like I have. So it's a So let's talk about 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.680 how this went from a sort of side interest to 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:52.040 a website to a business. We were speaking earlier about 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:56.560 your first big affiliation, branding thirty dollars over the weekend. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.080 You had to look at that and go, hey, this 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.360 really is a bit. Is this what happened on Monday 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.480 when you went into your day job. Well, I remember 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.840 being in the shower just crunching the numbers as as 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.280 my posts were going viral across the internet about this chase. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.120 You know, the clicks would update every hour, and I 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.240 just you know, on a normal day, I'd have like 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:16.880 twenty clicks on a you know, on a credit card link, 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:18.680 but then all of a sudden, was like two thousand. 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:20.720 I'm like, oh my god, if this is even the 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:25.080 tiniest conversion rate, I'm doing well. And every other day, 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.520 you know, sales would load into the system and so 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.400 on paper. I remember when I hit the first hundred thousand, 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:32.360 it was like roughly within a month of getting into 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:34.560 affiliate sales because of that New York Times piece that 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.360 made it go viral and uh and I remember just thinking, 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.720 on paper, I'm kind of rich, you know, like that 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.240 was more than my annual salary at that point. And 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.800 my parents were like, Brian, you know, I was twenty seven, 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:47.880 I was about to get VP, and you know, human 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:54.280 resources at Morgan Stanley that you shouldn't be well back, 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.480 you know, I was. You know, that was you know, 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.320 when you're in your late twenties about to get VP, 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.040 it's like, you know, you're it's better to take a 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.040 risk than when you're young, and you could bounce back. 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.760 Of course, of course now you know, not knowing what 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:07.600 I know now, but you know, being a blog a 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:11.000 professional blogger just wasn't really a thing inn But my 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.720 parents actually loaned me money because even though in the 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.160 affiliate portal, I said I had all this money coming 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:17.960 to me, but it was on like a net ninety 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.960 pay plus plus plus. It was actually months before I 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:22.800 saw any of that money. But so you didn't use 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.880 venture capital. I never used family money, friends and family. 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:29.320 How much did you? I borrowed five thousand or ten 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.320 thousand from my parents just to pay my rent. But 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.200 it was already profitable up to that point, so, I 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.360 mean it was from getting affiliate links. Uh. It was 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.320 six months. It was that August that I made my 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.240 first million. It was crazy. It just kept growing and 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.640 growing and then I started hiring. So I never I 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:46.440 owned a hundred percent of the company when I sold 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.040 it to Great inelve So that worked out. Well. Is 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.160 that a public figure? Can we just it's not a 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.239 public figure? Um, I don't think it was ever really disclosed, 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.720 but it was, you know, life changing amount of money 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:58.360 for me at the time. Of course, they gave me 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:00.040 a three and a half year earn out because that 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:01.959 was twenty eight They're like, we're not going to give 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.800 you everything, but um, but you stayed with him for 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:07.960 almost a decade. Yeah, I mean I even after that 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.000 three and a half years. I Uh, I renegotiated my 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.960 deal to get a you know, I was a salaried employee. 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.360 I didn't I don't own the points guy, but they 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.679 saw how passionate I was about it um and so 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:21.960 you are the points guy, and so I guess it helps. 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.040 You know, people even when Red Ventures bought Bank great 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.520 people like you know most founders, you know, when you sell, 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.280 you get you know, but they take the money and run, 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.160 take the money and run. But I and I just 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:32.880 you know, signed out with Red Ventures. I'm gonna be 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.400 there for years to come. I mean, I passionately love 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.360 doing what we do and uh yeah, it's the coolest 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:39.880 job in the world. Why would I give it up? So, 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:43.839 so you started as a as a blogger, when did 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.760 you hire your first employee? So my first employee was 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:48.840 actually part time. It was my sister in law. She 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.120 was a stay at home mom. She started doing email 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:53.439 got because the emails were coming in, and I actually 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:57.000 had a side business where I would charge people fifty 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.040 bucks and I would book their award tickets for them. 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.560 So you'd be able to email me and say, hey, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:03.920 I want to take my family to Italy four people 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.560 in June, and I would say, pay me ch under 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.199 bucks and I'll tell you exactly how to do it. 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:10.600 So I had that business and then I would blog. 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.680 So my my sister in law was my first part 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.400 time employee. And then it was actually right after I 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:18.079 sold the bank. Right then I was like, I gotta 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.160 I gotta hire people. And now people would want to 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:21.960 work for me, because before people were like, I'm not 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:26.000 gonna work for some guy blogging out of his living room. Yeah. So, 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.319 once I sold, you know, bank rate was a publicly 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.319 traded company pretty um, you know, they had banquet dot 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.240 com was a huge site, and the credit cards dot Com. So, 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.160 you know, once I and that was great because I 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.640 could just focus on the content and um, you know, 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.080 their HR and legal and all that stuff took took 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:43.960 away all that stuff that I really never enjoyed doing. 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.200 And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.800 for a site that spends so much time and effort 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.560 analyzing credit cards to bring in totally the ultimate credit card. 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:55.400 And I didn't realize it at the time. I mean 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.920 when they because I only had like roughly fifteen months 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.360 of revenue. Granted it was all profit for the most 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:02.440 part because I didn't really have that many expenses, but 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.199 you know, to me, It was astounding that credit cards 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:07.880 dot Com, the behemouth site, you know, um would want 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:11.680 this little niche travel premium, you know, credit card site. 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.920 But premium is a good niche. It is and and 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:18.240 it it was. It was. It's been a wild ride since. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:19.760 You know, I remember when when I sold the bank 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:24.440 rate in May, fifty thousand monthly uniques um, which is 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.560 really nothing, but it was pretty pretty profitable. Um, but 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.720 the real you know, but it's a platform that you 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:34.360 could build on. It was a good and the platform 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.240 kept growing year every year. But sixteen was the year 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.400 we actually launched the Sapphire Reserve card with Chase. So 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.480 tell us a little bit about that. They reached out 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.959 to you guys to say, hey, we have an idea 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:48.040 for a new credit card to challenge AMEX. Well they 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:49.600 didn't even in the beginning, we didn't even know what 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.000 it was. Um. We had to you know, come up. 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.040 You know, we had been working with Chase since the beginning, 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.480 so they knew we were good partners. We had the 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:00.240 ability to create content that resonated, especially with millennials. I mean, 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.920 and to this day, you know, we have a huge audience. 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.760 We now are in the UK, we we serviced all 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.559 types of you know readers. We've got a whole military section, 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.680 We've got our family vertical. Today we're actually launching our 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.959 TPG Women vertical for women and travel small business. But 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.000 but really the points guy, we can speak to millennials. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.959 We put credit cards and financial products in a way 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:26.920 that I think successful people in general, especially millennials, can understand, 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:28.360 like I need to get this car because I will 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.360 live a better life through travel and you know, be 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:33.880 able to to get ahead. So so yeah, they approached 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.560 us in sen We were under strict NDA for months 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:38.520 and months. So it was months until I even knew 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.920 what the Sapphire Reserve was. And when I heard the product, 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.920 I literally got like faint in the knees. I was like, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:48.840 this is gonna be huge, like monstrous, and it was. 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.320 It was out of control. They literally sold out and 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.640 they ran out of the medal used to make the car. 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.480 So we were their launch partner, and you know, word 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.680 was getting out and leaking and we uh uh they 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.880 and you know we basically hell, they wanted to launch 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.480 it right after Labor Day in sixteen. The words started 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:07.760 to get out because you know, they've got all these 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.520 bank branches, so they because we were partners with them, 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.240 they actually announced that the Sapphire Reserve is coming. I 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.240 still remember where I was in Italy on summer vacation 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.080 and they actually said it's coming and the Points Guy 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.840 has all the information. And on a tweet they announced 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:24.960 the best credit card to ever hit the market in 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.160 a tweet with the link to the points guy dot 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.679 com and our inside scoop on so which made all 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:32.679 of our competitors had the link to us. I mean, 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.200 traffic was who needs s e O with that stuff? 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.480 So that raises a really interesting question. In my wallet, 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.200 I have a Chase Sapphire Reserve card and an Amex 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:47.120 Platinum card. You do business with all these other credit 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.880 card companies, did anyone say, hey, you guys are partnering 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.320 with Chase. We're a little concerned about that. You know, 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:55.520 my mom was so worried about that. She goes, You're 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.080 going to be known as the Chase guy. And you know, 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:01.640 you know, first what, second you think, okay, so are 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.120 we doing too much with one partner? But I think 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.280 you know, Chase came to us and said, we believe 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.079 in you two. Do we We did a ton more 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.520 than just blog posts, we did events. We did uh 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:14.200 Facebook live on the day of the launch with pamcottas body, 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:15.920 who was their head of credit cards at the time, 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.600 and we were answering reader questions live on social media, 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.080 which your credit card company had never done before. And 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.680 I think that launch with them well, I know because 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.200 since then we've launched credit cards for City, their Prestige card. 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.480 You know. We've worked really a lot with Capital One 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.520 last year they added all these transfer partners And I 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.800 think our credibility comes from the fact that a we 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.720 never recommend products we don't like period full stuff. I've 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.600 turned down offers all the time. We're not doing you know, 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.760 crappy little partnerships with brands, just trying to get a 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.360 buck from our readers, you know. And we're mathematical. We've 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.920 got a team of really smart experts where people like 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.120 you you can read through the bs like you. We 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.560 put it in terms of these points, you know, and 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.760 and how they will actually do it um you know, 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.720 how you can actually get value from it. So so yeah, 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.680 so the Sapphire Reserve, it was very Chase centric. But 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.120 when that offer ended, it was actually one of our 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.600 worst business months ever because we had focused so much 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.400 on that offer nothing else was happening, and in scraping 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.280 our knees. A month after it ended, we were like, 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.960 oh my god, we had our worst month in like 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.840 eight years. But it was a great wake up called hey, 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.680 wait a minute. And then that's when we really retrenched 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:28.760 with Amex and City and those partnerships, so totally I mean, 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.200 and and everyone wins in the end. Let's talk a 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.880 little bit about how you use various media to promote 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.800 the business. We talked about the New York Times, we 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.600 talked about the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. Let's talk a 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:46.080 little bit about YouTube, Instagram and TikTok. How does that 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.840 impact your business, your traffic and who your audiences. So, 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.440 you know, we leaned heavily into social media. You know, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.040 Twitter was actually my first I thought Facebook was going 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.520 to be a you know, a one lime thing and 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:02.600 it wasn't going to really be a big business driver, 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.640 which actually ended up being the opposite, because you know, 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:10.160 in fourteen fifteen, we were investing heavily in Facebook. We 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.840 wanted to build our likes up. And even though you know, 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.480 Facebook likes today don't mean anything, you know, we were 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.520 the first real travel blog to get over a million likes, 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.600 and that was right before Chase engaged us to help 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.120 with the launch of the Sapphire Reserve. So are you 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:29.600 tracking traffic from from those channels? Yes, so we still 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:34.040 get a about of our traffic, uh from social media 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.080 from all the different channels. It's funny you mentioned TikTok 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.960 because it's one of our new platforms that were just 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.640 testing around within the powers wild. You know, we we 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.160 had one of our edit giants. But it's excuse very 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:48.600 it's interesting and it's just like Snapchat. I'm a little 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.040 wary because Snapchat I used to love doing but then 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.320 there was no there was no follow up, you know, 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.960 there's no tracking, there was you know, the campaigns are 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.760 all very high funnel, like oh awareness amongst a really 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.080 young group about credit I'm like, meanwhile, I can go 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.840 on Facebook and target the exact people I want with 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.000 the right content and serve them different experiences. But yes, 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.800 we you know Facebook, you know social media marketing, Yes 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.080 we actually you know, we spent a ton of money 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:15.600 every month and getting our content in front of the 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.240 right people and those people get credit cards. But a 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.320 large portion of it is also just building out our 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:22.840 brand and and we send people around the world. I 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:27.320 did a vlog this year on YouTube. Uh I never 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.320 look at the dates when I look at your videos, 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.320 so I really enjoy the Air Emirates experience you did. Um. 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.359 I was lucky enough to fly that some years ago. 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.680 Air India is another one that I thought was was spectacular. 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.000 What what vlog did you do this year that really 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.680 stands out? So we so it's called being the points guy. 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.480 We I went to Israel for the first time and 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:53.679 it was amazing. So we flew United's new seven seven. 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.640 It's great, great way to fly. Um. They actually fly 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.119 from New York to San Francisco, which is awesome, and 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.960 I flew l L back and l AL has a 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:09.920 sketchy history as an airline. It's a security so their 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:11.800 new plane. They have seven eight sevens as well, which 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.840 are really nice and get great reviews. But I loved, 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.120 you know, the seven forty seven, the Queen of the Sky. 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.520 So I flew one of their last seven forty seven 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:21.760 and this thing was like flying in the eighties. I 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.560 mean they were astrays in the seats and uh so 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:29.320 that screens, no, no, no screens. Uh it was and 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.080 the food for some reason. I think I was in 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.600 first class, and I think the food. The food was rancid. 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:35.520 I mean I I'll eat anything on a plane, I 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.439 mean even an economy. This food was truly bad. So 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:41.800 we my friend who's a comedian, we filmed the vlog episode, 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.639 you know, flying from from Tel Aviv to JFK on 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.159 the seven forty seven, and it actually went viral and 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.600 it actually made the news in Israel. I kept getting 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.040 all these Google alerts for like weeks later that popular 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.000 travel blogger flies, you know, Israel's flag carrier, and it's 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.960 a hot mess. You know, Like, but what what else 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:04.000 stands out to you amongst airlines? So the other day 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:08.399 you mentioned Norway. Norwegian Airlines, which I've flown business class 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.720 and it's amazing for the for what you get for 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.120 the price, but the food is town The food is terrible. Yeah, 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.679 I mean Norwegians seven. You get a big, big, comfy reclients. 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:21.120 This is not quite a flatbed technically premium. It's one 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:25.000 of the best premium economies out there. Oh, it's much bigger. Yeah. 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.840 The pricing is fantastic too, I mean last minute seven 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.080 bucks more Europe round round trip under a thousand dollars 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.000 to pass and you know, and especially when you're going 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.600 to Europe, it's just under six hours these days, you 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.840 know to spend you know, well from New Year JFK 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.640 to Paris is just about eight hours if you include 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:47.520 coming home time on the ground in London, I've done 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.639 under six hours. Yeah, but anyway, so so but yes, 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:54.240 so Norwegian Premium is a great product. But I'm actually 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.679 about to uh et the Middle Eastern carriers are still so. 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:02.560 Qatar Airlines their q Sweets business classes top notch. Those 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:07.040 are like literally private rooms. It's it's crazy. And do 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.639 they are they the ones with this the shower you 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.760 can lay down in? Was that Emirates? So there's two 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:16.480 airlines with showers commercially, it's Emirates. Uh and then Etti 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:18.800 had so Etty Had not only has the showers, they 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:20.720 have what's called the residents. And I flew it. It 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.960 was my first vlog that I was their first passenger 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.080 to fly JFK to Abu Dhabi. It was thirty three 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.240 thou dollars of course zero because I expensed it to 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.080 bankreat at the time. But you didn't you paid actually cash, 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.359 you didn't use points, no, because with the residents, it 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:38.720 would be millions and millions of points. So we paid cash, 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.560 I earned points, expensed it to the parent company, UM 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:44.720 and it must have been thrilled. But you know what 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.080 the video got millions of people still come up to 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:48.919 me today. So back to the whole point about how 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.240 we use social media. Yes, we do it for conversions, 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.680 but also the brand awareness that as we speak right now, 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:56.920 people are viewing our videos being like, wow, I want 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.879 to fly Emirates or this airline. They come to this 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.040 I they get hooked in and so we're now you know, 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:05.720 our our parent company, read Ventures is all about analytics 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:10.320 and UM using data science to serve different experiences to people. 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.720 So UM, yes we get a bunch of millions of 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:17.080 visitors to the website, but we are now using social media, podcasts, 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.439 um to reach all different audiences that come back to 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.280 the site. And the big thing will be the app. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.919 The app. You're gonna launch a points guy app. So 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.480 we have if you could, if you could make people's 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.960 life easier showing them what their points could do. Well, 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:35.800 just you wait that the home screen of the app 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.240 is going to be your net worth and points really 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:40.000 and then you're gonna be able to set trip goals. 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.399 We're gonna be able to get live award availability to 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:46.000 tell you, hey, you've got a mix points and Delta miles, 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.000 you should actually use these points on these days. You're 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:53.159 gonna pushing your target audience. I can have Delta. I 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.919 have a hundred and twenty five thou Delta points. I 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:59.560 have six hundred thousand Chase Reserve points. UM, I have 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.320 the office am X points, which we then recycle into 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.920 office travel. But it's always you know, when you travel 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:10.040 for work, it's always either economy or comfort. Plus you're 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:13.800 try and be responsible, um, when you're traveling for work, 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:16.480 when you travel on your own. All right, you could 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:21.320 you could indulge a little bit that said, it's all 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:23.600 over the place, I don't know how to best this 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:26.360 use that this app is gonna track your points. It's 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:28.959 gonna we'll be able to instantly. We're building these algorithms 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:31.080 and tools that look at what you're spending in the 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:34.639 different categories, and then we'll actually slap your wrists and say, Barry, 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:36.560 you should have been using this card for that purchase, 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:38.600 because you actually would have gotten a ton more value 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:40.959 back based on where you want to use your points. 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:43.520 So it's gonna be I already have, I have the 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.560 it's gonna be coming out in early but it's going 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:49.080 to change the game because as of today, it's too confused. 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:52.000 I mean, it is very confusing. It's challenging, and what 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:55.520 ends up happening is you just end up accumulate what 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:59.840 you describe as points hoarders. Um you. Now, I will 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.880 use my Chase points for what for what I call 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:08.639 um marriage counseling purchases. Meaning when our Weber grill that 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:11.560 was twelve years old caught fire and I decided I 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:14.879 want the big four burner grill that was twelve hundred 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:20.520 bucks on sale at Amazon, delivered and installed, my wife's 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.320 had exploded. She's like, just go replace the grill you 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.680 bought for five hundred dollars twelve years ago. Well, twelve 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:28.959 years ago is five hundred dollars. Now it's seven hundred 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:31.639 dollars and I want the bigger one, and she's like, 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:33.440 I don't want to spend thousand dollars on it. You're 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:35.359 giving me a little bit of anxiety here though, because 0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:38.000 using Chase points for like merchandise, like there are all 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:40.440 these different currencies like if you want, if you want 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:43.080 to buy grills and merchandise and gift cards, there are 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:46.360 cards for that, you know City double Cash that gives 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:49.280 you two percent back. But to use those chase points 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:51.760 where you're getting less than a center lesson value when 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:55.240 you're three exit, can I tell you I'm dying a 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:58.840 little bit. And it's a marriage. So whatever it costs, 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:01.760 I wanted my damn grill. But but we'll talk more 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:04.879 about that in a bit. So you get to travel 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:08.719 a lot for work, and not just you know, the 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:13.760 red Eye to Houston, but really fun places on on 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:16.760 fun airlines. I have a whole bunch of questions. Let's 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:19.840 start with what's your favorite place you've been to this year? 0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:27.560 This year, I um really enjoyed going to Well does 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:30.000 it have to be a new place because Cape Town, 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:33.400 South Africa. Really I've been seven times South. I saw 0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:36.119 the boxing Grandma's video. Yeah, that was really cool. We 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:38.720 did that a couple of years ago. Those grannies don't 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:43.800 fool around. I was blown away. But I love South Africa. 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:45.440 We we do a ton of charity work. A lot 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.639 of my travel is for the organizations we support, and 0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.840 but South Africa is just so beautiful. If you've never 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:56.560 been Nevine Country, it's a it's a long fight. But 0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:01.119 starting in December of twenty nine, Team we Are United 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:06.679 Airlines is gonna start finding Newark Cape Town NonStop. You 0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:09.280 know what I used to hate Newark. I live downtown Newark. 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:11.679 I can get to in twenty minutes. JFK took me 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:14.600 two hours the other day. And Newark now has clear 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:17.879 The terminals are nice. I would I would push you 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:19.640 to give it a give it a second thought. I 0:25:19.720 --> 0:25:22.440 have been giving away my clear you know, you get 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:24.560 to five and I've been giving it to people, and 0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:26.920 you get a note when someone signs up. I am 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:30.719 shocked that everybody isn't using that, although I was shocked 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:33.080 that everybody wasn't using TSA PreCheck, And you still go 0:25:33.119 --> 0:25:35.679 to airports in the pre check lane, I mean empty 0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:38.040 two minutes max most of the time, and I see 0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:41.200 people waiting hours in line and normally how do people 0:25:41.240 --> 0:25:43.240 not value their time? Five years of pre check for 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:47.159 eighty five dollars, it's the greatest deal in travel. So 0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:49.400 let's let's talk a bit. So you like Cape Town 0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:52.720 this year? What what's one of the most memorable trips 0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:55.720 you've taken well. I love my parents are just retired. 0:25:55.760 --> 0:25:58.119 They you know, my parents are like my best friends. 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:02.640 I took them to Ghana. Um I do a good 0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:04.520 amount of charity work with phjam there. So we went 0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:07.240 to Ghana and then I took him to Tanzania on 0:26:07.320 --> 0:26:11.720 a Serengetti safari and we you know the image people 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:13.480 people come back and talk about it for the most 0:26:13.480 --> 0:26:16.760 Safari if you've I mean, I love animals and mother nature. 0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.200 Safari is just spectacular. You you really only need three 0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:22.480 days of safari because you go out and you know, 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:24.200 if you go in a real African safari, you're out 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:26.119 for like five hours in the morning, five hours and 0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:27.800 they have a lot. By the end of like two 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:30.960 to three days, you know you've seen it all. But 0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:32.760 that's why I like South Africa because you can do 0:26:32.840 --> 0:26:36.000 Cape Town and the stunning coastlines and the animals and 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:38.919 wine country and safari. So that to me is like 0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:42.960 the ultimate trip. So so you're effectively a professional traveler. 0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:46.040 Tell us about some of your packing secrets and what 0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:48.679 gadgets do you like to travel? Yeah, I really so. 0:26:48.720 --> 0:26:51.520 I do the the stack in full method, which so 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:53.679 you're not you don't roll don't roll. Nope, So I 0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:55.720 will take and I start with the heaviest item first, 0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:57.959 I'll take like a blaze. I'll do my two blazers, 0:26:58.000 --> 0:26:59.760 and then I'll do long sleeve shirts and then some 0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:04.239 T shirts. Fold the arms on and then fold them 0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:06.359 in half, smooth it out. I tell you what I 0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:08.879 can't tell you never know. I can't tell you the 0:27:08.960 --> 0:27:12.719 last time I've used a hotel, and the same thing 0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:15.920 with the hotel, I stack all the pants folded in half, 0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:18.560 folded in half again. You know if and the more 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:20.320 you have, the less wrinkled it will be. If you've 0:27:20.359 --> 0:27:23.080 got two pants, they'll wrinkle. So and you have videos 0:27:23.119 --> 0:27:25.919 about this. Yes, So let's talk about gadgets. What what 0:27:25.960 --> 0:27:28.600 do you travel with? I see you also have the 0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:31.240 eleven Yes, I always have the best iPhone with the 0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:33.720 most storage. Um, I actually have this. They now have 0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:36.400 the dual sims, so I have a Google five card. 0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:38.639 Swap it out. So if I'm in some you know, 0:27:38.720 --> 0:27:41.639 because I've Verizon International, but sometimes they'll limit your data, 0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:44.359 so I always haven't hit that yet. It depends in 0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:46.080 certain areas and now they allow you to up it 0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:50.320 more or whatever. It's very cheap, so now in the 0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:55.080 United States, all the wireless services suck. Verizon Wireless is 0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:57.919 the least dirty shirt in the hampers. The way I 0:27:58.000 --> 0:28:00.720 describe it in general, I think, you know, T Mobile 0:28:00.760 --> 0:28:03.200 is great with their certain plans, but it's slow. I'm 0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:05.199 you know, I need some quick I'll pay whatever it 0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:07.840 takes to fast WiFi, so I'm a junkie I must have. 0:28:07.960 --> 0:28:10.440 The Google five is also really good too, as as 0:28:10.480 --> 0:28:12.639 the backup so Google fire works around the world. I 0:28:12.680 --> 0:28:16.159 forget what's it's not very expensive to have. You know, 0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:18.600 the iPhone that has dual SIMS so and then you 0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:22.840 can also click to SIM cards in that so you 0:28:22.880 --> 0:28:24.399 can flip back and forth. Do you land in a 0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:26.679 certain cards? You tell me? Yeah? What else you have? 0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:30.320 You travel with the duel SIM iPhone? I always have, 0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:33.720 you know, I've got my MacBook Air and always bring 0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:36.479 my own TV shows and movies on planes because you can. 0:28:36.520 --> 0:28:38.560 I tell you, I'm I'm so glad you say that 0:28:38.640 --> 0:28:43.320 I got the biggest, baddest iPad because I how often 0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:45.960 you stuck on a six hour flight when either you're 0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:48.240 halfway in the movie and it craps out or the 0:28:48.240 --> 0:28:52.040 whole for everyone else on the plane thirty minutes and 0:28:52.120 --> 0:28:57.080 like it's a two hour flight. So basically between between 0:28:57.560 --> 0:29:02.280 Netflix download and Dish anywhere, always have ours. That's a 0:29:02.320 --> 0:29:04.800 big thing with travel, control your own destiny. Same thing 0:29:04.800 --> 0:29:07.560 with noise canceling headphones. Yes, there will always be babies. 0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:10.479 Babies exist, They're not going anywhere people, And guess what, 0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:12.360 we all were crying babies once. So get your own 0:29:12.360 --> 0:29:15.200 bows headphones, you know, get get ones that you know, 0:29:15.240 --> 0:29:17.080 and of course sometimes you can still hear through the 0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:19.680 bow's headphone. But even then, I tell you it's really 0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:22.680 not bad. We had we had a babies behind us 0:29:22.720 --> 0:29:26.160 to and from Chicago for Thanksgiving, and um you pop 0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:28.680 in the headphones and everything in life, it's just your mindset. 0:29:29.040 --> 0:29:32.080 You know, if you walk into the airport aggrieved and mad, 0:29:32.280 --> 0:29:34.680 guess what your travel experience is gonna suck? Like just 0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:38.800 at you, I am so aren't you always angry and agreed? 0:29:39.240 --> 0:29:41.400 That part of our mindset, you know, I think in 0:29:41.480 --> 0:29:43.400 traveling and just being able to see the world and 0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:46.280 seeing how most people live, even a bad flight, you know, 0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:48.000 only one percent of the world will ever be on 0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:50.680 a plane or some crazy statistics like that, So you 0:29:50.720 --> 0:29:52.600 got to learn to roll with it. Go roll with it. 0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:54.480 Even when the in flight wifi's out. I know, I 0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:56.719 get all mad, but you know, sometimes I'll sit there. 0:29:56.720 --> 0:29:59.120 I just started doing meditations on plane. Planes are a 0:29:59.120 --> 0:30:01.800 great place to medic putting your headphones on. I do 0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:05.160 these guided meditations. That insight timer is the one that 0:30:05.160 --> 0:30:07.640 I have a friend who likes that one also and 0:30:07.680 --> 0:30:10.080 another friend who likes clean is a great time to 0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:14.120 meditate because you're sitting up right usually. Um, there's a 0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:17.280 lot of outside distractions that you can get. If that ball, 0:30:17.360 --> 0:30:20.720 if that derails you, it's a little bit of that's 0:30:20.760 --> 0:30:23.920 that's really interesting. So now let's play. Tell me what's 0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:28.840 wrong with my UM credit cards? And UM, I don't 0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:31.800 call this is what we call a wallet audit, that's right. 0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:35.840 So I I have my iPhone case, which is my 0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:40.520 new that's right, that's right, instead of a full blown wallet. 0:30:40.840 --> 0:30:43.520 So I'm showing you will pretend this is my Chase 0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:47.760 Sapphire Reserve home. Um, because I just the only problem 0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:50.680 with the iPhone wallets is you have three slots and 0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:53.600 I have a lot more jumped. So these are my 0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:58.840 two main credit cards. Memorize that number. UM, so I 0:30:58.920 --> 0:31:01.680 got the fire reserve of and the Business Gold Card, 0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:04.719 Business Platinum, this Business platinfum. Oh my god, I'm like that. 0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:09.400 And I got the Platinum specifically because if you travel 0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:14.800 domestically not first class, that will get me into most lounges. Yes. Yeah, 0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:16.760 so the Platinum is the best card and the Business 0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:19.480 Platinum actually last yeart Our TPG awards one best business 0:31:19.480 --> 0:31:22.080 credit card. This card is good to any purchase over 0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:24.520 fifty or five thousand dollars. You get a fifty percent 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:28.720 bonus that either UM and the Business Platinum gives you 0:31:28.800 --> 0:31:31.240 thirty five. So if you want to buy a thousand 0:31:31.280 --> 0:31:34.200 dollar flight Amex and most cards, it's a hundred thousand points. 0:31:34.240 --> 0:31:36.560 The Business Platinum gives you thirty five percent back, so 0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:40.040 it's only sixty five thousand points. Essentially, when you when 0:31:40.080 --> 0:31:42.320 you book through a flight through AMEX, are you're getting 0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:44.440 the same prices and a few get directly. Yeah, you 0:31:44.440 --> 0:31:46.560 mostly get the same prices once in a while. Actually 0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:49.200 a lot of times AMEX has cheaper prices and more 0:31:49.200 --> 0:31:51.520 flexible fares. Yeah, we book all of our travel at 0:31:51.520 --> 0:31:55.280 the points got through Amicx Travel. They have special especially 0:31:55.280 --> 0:31:58.520 with American Airlines and some others. They've got mostly Delta 0:31:58.720 --> 0:32:00.480 and a little bit of Jet. Pil is the other 0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:04.000 airline to Jeff blue Man, and even Jeff, I'm six seven, 0:32:04.040 --> 0:32:07.600 so even flying jeflue regular flu into coast to recave 0:32:07.680 --> 0:32:09.840 Jeff blue and I have to tell you Delta used 0:32:09.840 --> 0:32:13.520 to be twenty years ago. Delta was no fun. Yeah, 0:32:13.640 --> 0:32:16.080 don't they give my vote for the most improved airline 0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:21.000 the one they are consistently. I don't normally blow kisses 0:32:21.040 --> 0:32:24.640 to airlines. So so this is what I like about 0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:27.920 your strategy. So you've got the Sapphire Reserve, which is 0:32:27.920 --> 0:32:30.160 great for points that three x on travel and dining. 0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:31.720 So that's what you put all your travel and dining 0:32:31.760 --> 0:32:35.440 on the Sapphire Reserve. I mean yeah, because that's three 0:32:35.600 --> 0:32:38.760 x and that travel also includes tolls, parking, subways. It's 0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:43.280 a really broad travel plus no currency fee over on either, 0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:45.640 no foreign transaction fee, So yeah, you're good. The one 0:32:45.680 --> 0:32:48.000 area where I might recommend is this. This is like 0:32:48.040 --> 0:32:51.880 an advance. You could get a Chase or Freedom Unlimited 0:32:51.920 --> 0:32:54.680 card which is no annual fee, and that card gives 0:32:54.720 --> 0:32:57.200 one and a half points on everything you spend. So 0:32:57.280 --> 0:32:59.680 both of these cards only give you one point per dollar. 0:33:00.320 --> 0:33:02.160 So this is this is how you pair up to 0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:04.720 a power combo. So if you got the free Chase 0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:08.480 Freedom Unlimited, you would use that for for every day spend, 0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:11.800 you'd be earning one point five points, you'd be earning more, 0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:15.720 and then on travel and dining is what you put 0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:18.760 on your reserve and you can combine those points, so 0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:21.920 we call it um. So you just cherry picking where 0:33:21.920 --> 0:33:23.960 to spend. And this is what the tv G app 0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:26.360 is gonna help people is put you know, every day spend, 0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:28.040 like if you're gonna go to a store and buy 0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:31.480 a sweater, go to the supermarket, which which caused Supermarket. 0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:34.320 There are some cards that give pretty pretty good spend, 0:33:34.320 --> 0:33:37.080 but in general, I think you've got your AMEX for 0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:40.880 the perks, you've got the reserve for the points, and 0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:43.040 then if you've got like a Freedom Unlimited for every 0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:45.320 day spence, you're earning that one and a half points 0:33:45.320 --> 0:33:47.680 per dollar. That's a pretty big difference. And it's free, 0:33:47.680 --> 0:33:50.280 no annual fee card. How do you argue with that? 0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:52.840 It's a no brainer. So so I also noticed on 0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:56.479 your site you mentions I don't remember which card it was, 0:33:56.880 --> 0:33:59.920 but they're really good for hotels. So I normally will 0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:03.200 used the Sapphire Reserve for a hotel, especially if I'm 0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:06.560 going to You mentioned the Grand Cayman trip. We're in 0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:09.320 the Grand cam In a couple of times. Really enjoy 0:34:09.680 --> 0:34:13.360 enjoy that um anytime every February of March, you have 0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:15.359 to get to the Caribbean, get out of New York weather. 0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:19.480 What card do you use to I mean, so I used. 0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:22.440 So it's it's sad though, because so Capital one Ventures 0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:25.960 is an awesome all around card because they team up 0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:27.840 with Hotels dot Com. So Hotels dot Com is a 0:34:27.840 --> 0:34:29.880 pretty cool program, and that if you're not loyal to 0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:32.640 want any one chain, like getting low level hotel Elite 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:35.680 settus isn't really that verty Hotels dot Com is great, 0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:37.279 and that it gives you one free night for every 0:34:37.320 --> 0:34:39.040 ten so they take the price of your the ten 0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:41.440 nights that you stayed and they give you the average 0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:45.120 price non consecutive trips, any multiple trips, so that you're 0:34:45.120 --> 0:34:47.640 basical getting ten percent back through the Hotels dot Com program. 0:34:47.680 --> 0:34:50.960 It's a solid return. With the Capital one Venture card, 0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:53.680 they give you a ten points per dollar on all 0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:56.000 Hotels dot Com, so that's another ten percent, so you're 0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:59.200 basically getting back on hotels and this is pretty much 0:34:59.200 --> 0:35:02.680 any hotel in the world. So. Um the sad thing 0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:07.320 about that that that partnership ends in January. Um, so 0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:10.160 Capital one Venture and Hotels dot Com has been my 0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:13.600 go to. The partnership ends in January. Wait, this is 0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:16.200 this is done. This is pretty much and they may 0:35:16.239 --> 0:35:18.399 extend it. I haven't heard yet, but that has been 0:35:18.440 --> 0:35:20.480 to go to. The other card I'll say is if 0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:23.600 you're actually know what City Prestige used to be the 0:35:23.640 --> 0:35:26.000 card for. They give you fourth night free and they 0:35:26.080 --> 0:35:30.919 just fourth night free hotel in the world. Over the years, 0:35:30.960 --> 0:35:33.600 I've gotten thousands and thousands. Did they still do that? They? 0:35:33.719 --> 0:35:35.520 You know, City has been pulling back a lot of 0:35:35.560 --> 0:35:37.400 the perks and so now they limited to two a 0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:40.759 year and the rates are not as low as they 0:35:40.760 --> 0:35:43.760 watered it down. That's too. Now that raises another question. 0:35:44.920 --> 0:35:48.919 People have been saying that people who I normally think 0:35:48.960 --> 0:35:53.520 of as astute travelers and points people that it's gotten 0:35:53.600 --> 0:35:58.040 much harder of late Chase Sapphire Reserve change the landscape 0:35:58.080 --> 0:36:01.400 for everybody, and some people will decided. Some companies decided 0:36:01.440 --> 0:36:03.880 to compete. Another companies said no, We're gonna make it 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:07.080 more difficult. Well, I think all of them. I think so. 0:36:07.360 --> 0:36:09.440 My contrarian view to that is that things are actually 0:36:09.440 --> 0:36:11.359 way better than they've ever been because there are more 0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:14.719 wastearing credit cards today. You know, even the Amex Gold 0:36:14.760 --> 0:36:17.080 now offers four X on dining. They one up the 0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:19.680 Sapphire Reserve, so the Amex Gold is four X on 0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:23.359 dining and in several other categories. There's actually so many 0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:25.800 categories to earn. You just got to pick and choose, 0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:27.680 and choose the ones that you know give you the 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:30.399 most value. Back now on the flip side, because there's 0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:33.000 so many miles in the ecosystem, you know, the airlines 0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:35.000 have been raising the amount of miles needed for flight. 0:36:35.400 --> 0:36:38.080 But considering you can still get eight hundred thousand points 0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:40.879 for sign up bonuses, then you're earning two, three, four, five, 0:36:40.960 --> 0:36:45.120 ten X on spend. The smart points maximizers are still 0:36:45.160 --> 0:36:47.719 coming out ahead. You just have to put the work 0:36:47.719 --> 0:36:49.320 in and you stick around a little bit. I have 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:52.120 a ton of lush. Absolutely. We have been speaking with 0:36:52.200 --> 0:36:55.040 Brian Kelly, better known as the Points Guy. If you 0:36:55.239 --> 0:36:57.480 enjoy this conversation, we'll be shut and come back for 0:36:57.480 --> 0:37:00.200 the podcast extras. Will you keep the tape rolling and 0:37:00.280 --> 0:37:04.840 continue discussing all things travel. We love your comments, feedback 0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:08.680 in suggestions right to us at m IB podcast at 0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:12.239 Bloomberg dot net. Check out my weekly column on Bloomberg 0:37:12.280 --> 0:37:15.640 dot com. Follow me on Twitter at Rid Halts. I'm 0:37:15.680 --> 0:37:19.880 Barry Hults. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. 0:37:21.760 --> 0:37:24.440 Welcome to the podcast, Brian. Thank you so much for 0:37:24.480 --> 0:37:26.919 doing this. I don't I don't know what inspired me 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:29.919 to reach out to you guys, but I'm a fan 0:37:30.000 --> 0:37:34.400 of the site. I really like what you're doing. Um. 0:37:34.480 --> 0:37:38.560 We were talking earlier about the YouTube stuff. I love 0:37:38.760 --> 0:37:43.440 the passenger shaming videos. They're so good. It's if you 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:46.000 fly regularly. And I don't fly nearly as much as 0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:49.480 you do, but I fly enough. The behavior of people 0:37:49.560 --> 0:37:52.239 on airplanes, I mean it used to be bad on 0:37:52.280 --> 0:37:57.200 the commuter rail lines. People have kinda settled into a routine. 0:37:57.680 --> 0:38:00.520 But I don't think people fly enough to your stand 0:38:01.320 --> 0:38:06.160 um or we're reared by actual adult humans to understand that. 0:38:06.800 --> 0:38:09.200 Don't take off your shoes and socks and start clipping 0:38:09.200 --> 0:38:12.440 your toenails on the plane and you wegs your foot 0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:14.759 in between a seat and kind of creep around. How 0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:16.959 do you not just pull out a machete and chop 0:38:17.040 --> 0:38:21.440 that guy's foot off. It's it's imagine having a barefoot comprise. 0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:24.080 There's not more of that on on planes, you know, 0:38:24.160 --> 0:38:27.719 like all out assaults. I get I get bent out 0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:31.680 of shape when people don't think and are inefficient. So 0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:35.080 leaving the leaving the plane, we we got to we 0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:38.960 got to um LaGuardia early. There was a gate by 0:38:38.960 --> 0:38:42.600 some miracle ready for us in the new Delta D terminal, 0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:45.799 so it was all good. There's a couple I don't 0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:50.520 know why. She's sitting in ten D and she's in 0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:54.400 twelve B and they're having a conversation like that was crazy. 0:38:54.560 --> 0:38:56.400 When it's time to get off the plane, he decides 0:38:56.440 --> 0:38:59.800 he has to organize his Sunday New York Times. This 0:39:00.160 --> 0:39:04.400 I was like an arterial plaque and the entire plane 0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:07.239 is blocked up behind him, and I wanted to pull 0:39:07.239 --> 0:39:09.319 out the phone and videotape him, but I was like, 0:39:10.480 --> 0:39:12.799 I gotta roll with it. You gotta be Yeah, that's true, 0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:15.120 you can get upset by it, but I think in general, 0:39:15.200 --> 0:39:17.160 you just gotta let it, let it go. Some of 0:39:17.239 --> 0:39:20.720 the behavior is a little over the top. I love 0:39:21.280 --> 0:39:25.960 this little segment about the um stewardess call button, the 0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:28.319 things people use that for. Well, I've looked a little 0:39:28.360 --> 0:39:30.440 bit bad because I've been in first class before, and 0:39:30.520 --> 0:39:32.279 you know, sometimes the flight attendants go, M I A, 0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:34.719 and You're right, come on, and a lot of times 0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:36.520 I do pay for my ticket and I'm like, okay, 0:39:36.520 --> 0:39:38.640 I kind of want a cocktail. I had no idea. 0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:41.560 And then and then well, Don Cathleen's like, never used 0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:45.879 the overhead for cocktails. I'm like, really you can. If 0:39:45.920 --> 0:39:48.680 you pay full boat, you could use that for cocktails. 0:39:48.680 --> 0:39:51.680 What you can't do is push the button and ask 0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:54.959 the stewardess to have the plane fly to lower altitude 0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:57.360 so you could get a picture of the Grand Canyon. 0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:00.920 And I'm assuming all the other examples stuff from life. 0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:03.440 She has stories, she espe she flew on a regional carrier. 0:40:03.520 --> 0:40:06.520 She has stories for days. But uh, it kind of 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:10.200 reminds me. I flew with Madonna once and she we're 0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:12.719 delayed leaving JFK and the pilot comes out I'm so 0:40:12.719 --> 0:40:15.440 sorry it's raining, and she just goes step on it. 0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:17.040 While we're in the air. I need to make up 0:40:17.120 --> 0:40:19.759 time and the pilot was like okay. I was like, 0:40:20.000 --> 0:40:23.360 so really yeah, it was like I think she was 0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:26.279 kind of joking. Okay. I also, here's some one tip 0:40:26.320 --> 0:40:28.400 you should never do. I took my sleeping but this 0:40:28.440 --> 0:40:30.080 is my rookie days. This is like, you never take 0:40:30.160 --> 0:40:33.319 the pill. And I partner to do the same thing 0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:36.719 in a hilarious series of disasters. I took my I 0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:38.560 took it my pill, and then of course I'm putting 0:40:38.560 --> 0:40:40.279 my overhead bag and I'm starting to get woozy and 0:40:40.320 --> 0:40:42.760 I turned around and it's freaking Madonna boarding the plane. 0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:45.040 So then I'm trying to stay awake. We're delayed on 0:40:45.080 --> 0:40:47.759 the tarmac. She's doing all these antics. I'm like, why 0:40:47.760 --> 0:40:49.360 did I take this pill? And then I woke up 0:40:49.400 --> 0:40:52.880 the next morning like did that happen? Don't flying private 0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:56.280 well because of a lot of celebrities. Now most celebrities 0:40:56.280 --> 0:40:58.759 are now flying commercial because of the you know environment, 0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:03.680 and you can't be crusader for all right. I see 0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:07.120 tons of a list celebrities, royals, people, you know, there's 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.080 people watching on planes. Wow, So I had I had 0:41:10.120 --> 0:41:14.160 the greatest experience yesterday with the pilot. I can't I 0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:17.320 don't ever recall seeing this. So there's all this weather 0:41:17.400 --> 0:41:20.280 going on Thanksgiving weekend, most of it to the west, 0:41:20.400 --> 0:41:23.839 but there's gonna be some potential issues on the flight back. 0:41:24.239 --> 0:41:27.360 He comes out and makes an announcement in the waiting 0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:30.000 area before people board. Hey, just want to let you 0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:32.400 know we're gonna hit a bunch of weather. The first 0:41:32.400 --> 0:41:34.640 half hour will be fine, but it will be bumpy 0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:38.560 and problematic for the second half. We'll do our best 0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:40.840 to work our way around the weather and get you 0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:45.840 there smoothly and safely. And and it was just like, wow, 0:41:45.880 --> 0:41:50.080 that's such a great and throughout the throughout the flight, 0:41:50.600 --> 0:41:54.480 like they're not great about communicating what really is going on. 0:41:54.840 --> 0:41:58.279 It always feels like they're reading a script like this guy, like, Wow, 0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:00.560 what approach. I've had pilots like that. I love that 0:42:00.600 --> 0:42:04.040 preflight brief, like some of them really. I mean, I 0:42:04.080 --> 0:42:06.000 think most pilots enjoy their job. I know they're all, 0:42:06.160 --> 0:42:09.200 you know, overworked and whatever, but yeah, I love Please 0:42:09.200 --> 0:42:11.640 don't tell me they're overworked overtired. You don't want to 0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:14.319 hear that, right, Although the planes can land themselves these 0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:17.080 days theoretically, so so let me get to some of 0:42:17.120 --> 0:42:24.319 the questions we missed. Um during the broadcast broadcast portion, Um, 0:42:24.400 --> 0:42:27.560 you you mentioned peace Jam. Let's so let's talk a 0:42:27.600 --> 0:42:31.040 little bit about inclusivity and giving back. Tell us what 0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:33.400 peace Jam is. So peace Jam is awesome. I you know, 0:42:33.520 --> 0:42:35.760 when when the business really took off, I really wanted 0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:38.279 to you know, there were tons of charities reaching out 0:42:38.320 --> 0:42:41.080 for right checks, right checks, and you know that's never 0:42:41.120 --> 0:42:42.880 anything you know, I wanted to get involved with an 0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:45.200 organization that was going to use travel to help change 0:42:45.360 --> 0:42:47.200 you know, the world, so to speak, even though that's 0:42:47.200 --> 0:42:49.279 a pretty wide thing. And a friend of mine said, 0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.359 you know, I love kids. I was almost a teach 0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:53.640 for America teacher out of college. And I think even 0:42:53.719 --> 0:42:57.439 being the Points Guy teach education or like a great 0:42:57.520 --> 0:43:00.960 joy from like watching people learn. And you know, so, 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:04.560 um So peace Jam is fifteen of the world's best 0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:07.160 Nobel Peace Prize winner, So the Dalai Lama Desmond to 0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:10.239 to Lama Bowie. So they are the board members and 0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:12.680 it's their organization to take their learnings and their life 0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:15.080 story to kids around the world. So it's so peace 0:43:15.120 --> 0:43:18.080 Jam itself is in a bunch of different countries. At 0:43:18.080 --> 0:43:21.960 the Points Guy, we sponsor it in Guatemala, Ghana, Liberia, 0:43:22.200 --> 0:43:24.480 South Africa and East Team War. Do you sponsor it 0:43:24.520 --> 0:43:26.759 with points? So we do. So it started out we 0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:29.200 were we were giving points to the Nobel Laureates to 0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:31.760 you know, because even the Fly Ghana is our biggest chapter. 0:43:31.840 --> 0:43:35.480 Now to fly a Nobel Laureate and their assistant, it's expensive. 0:43:35.760 --> 0:43:38.280 How do you transfer your points to a Nobel Laureate 0:43:38.400 --> 0:43:41.120 so you can transfer to my loyalty account my Amex. 0:43:41.200 --> 0:43:44.640 Let's say a Fly Delta. They fly JFK to Acra Ghana, 0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:47.719 so we would transfer my Amex to my Delta and 0:43:47.719 --> 0:43:49.279 then I can you know, and once you have points, 0:43:49.320 --> 0:43:52.080 you can book it when you want. So that's how 0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:54.279 it started. We called Points for Peace. So basically we 0:43:54.360 --> 0:43:58.920 bring these Nobel Laureates about talk about perfect branding. So 0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:01.720 we so we've able to bring these Nobel Peace Prize winners. 0:44:01.719 --> 0:44:03.640 You know, we've got six hundred kids in in gone 0:44:03.640 --> 0:44:06.400 to high school kids. They study about the laureate all 0:44:06.440 --> 0:44:08.120 year long and then we bring the lor like the 0:44:08.200 --> 0:44:10.640 Nobel Peace Prize winner, they spend all weekend. We have 0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:12.960 this unbelievable you know, they learned how to fix the 0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:16.640 problems in their community. Start small, small actions then lead 0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:18.839 to bigger change. I mean, by the end of a week, 0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:20.840 I get chilse even thinking about it's spending time with 0:44:20.960 --> 0:44:22.879 you know, these Nobel Peace Prize winners who have helped 0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:25.359 end civil wars. Who are you know, we work with 0:44:25.680 --> 0:44:28.240 Jody Williams who and you know helped in land mines 0:44:28.440 --> 0:44:30.720 and should we bring her to kids around the world 0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:34.239 and it really empowers them to make their communities better. 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:37.200 So that's been a I get to travel all around 0:44:37.239 --> 0:44:39.440 the world with you know, these amazing Nobel Peace Prize 0:44:39.440 --> 0:44:42.640 winners and bringing that message to kids. And let's talk 0:44:42.680 --> 0:44:45.480 a little bit about you're an out CEO and business founder. 0:44:45.880 --> 0:44:48.680 You also like to give back to the LGBT community. 0:44:48.680 --> 0:44:50.840 Tell us a little bit about what you do with that. Yeah, so, 0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:53.040 I mean, look, I'm so lucky, I'm I'm my parents 0:44:53.080 --> 0:44:55.360 love me, I've got a great partner. I'm out in 0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:58.360 business even you know, it's nervous racking when your business 0:44:58.360 --> 0:45:00.279 gets taken over? Are the are the new owners of 0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:03.000 the company going to be? You know? Allow me today, 0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:07.880 even today, I'm a Jewish white guy working in finance, 0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:09.799 so I know what it's like in New York so 0:45:09.920 --> 0:45:12.600 I know what it's like to be oppressed. Um, and 0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:16.240 I say that, you know, only half joking or fully joking. 0:45:16.280 --> 0:45:19.960 But let me say that again. It's hard to imagine 0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:26.560 in that that's still an issue in my little New York. Well, 0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:28.960 red Ventures, my parent company, they you know, all I 0:45:29.000 --> 0:45:31.440 heard was they're taking their Red Ventures is buying banquet 0:45:31.520 --> 0:45:33.960 and they're Charlotte based, and you know, in Charlotte, in 0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:36.440 North Carolina, there were some pretty nasty you know, the 0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:40.600 we had the whole HB two. Luckily I googled and 0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:43.319 and Rick Elias, who's our CEO. He's a staunch you know, 0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:45.640 you know, he's born in Puerto Rico. We do all 0:45:45.680 --> 0:45:48.480 this crazy social giving back and everything's fine. But there 0:45:48.480 --> 0:45:50.280 are a lot of friends, and I know, soul businesses 0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:53.160 they clash personally with you know, you're not a part 0:45:53.160 --> 0:45:56.560 of that inner click of boys or whatever. So so anyway, 0:45:56.600 --> 0:45:58.920 so I've been very fortunate. And I remember reading the 0:45:58.920 --> 0:46:01.040 New York Times two years go and it was about 0:46:01.440 --> 0:46:05.879 gay concentration camps in Czechnia. And I remember reading going, 0:46:05.880 --> 0:46:09.000 this is crazy. In twenty seventeen or eighteen, there cannot 0:46:09.080 --> 0:46:13.719 be concentration And in Chechnya. The leader that it was 0:46:13.840 --> 0:46:16.240 rounding up gay people and they were taking their phones 0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:19.320 and it was this they were actually in camps. Many 0:46:19.320 --> 0:46:22.640 people have been killed. So d Rainbow Railroad we we 0:46:22.680 --> 0:46:25.480 started donating our miles, so we actually booked flights for 0:46:25.480 --> 0:46:28.640 people who are in places like Czechnia. Jamaica is actually 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:30.120 the one of the worst places in the world for 0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:34.120 LGBT people. Jamaica. I just went there was sixty minutes 0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:36.359 this year and we did a whole expose on if 0:46:36.400 --> 0:46:38.879 you're gay in Jamaica, there's a huge chance you'll get 0:46:38.880 --> 0:46:42.920 tossed in the street. They trans people are killed almost weekly. 0:46:42.960 --> 0:46:46.360 There's what that happens in the US. Also what happens everywhere. 0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:49.400 Luckily in the US, I think we've definitely made steps 0:46:49.440 --> 0:46:52.560 since the Matthew Shepard days in the nineties, but you know, 0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:55.399 uh and a lot of countries Egypt even you get 0:46:55.480 --> 0:46:58.359 kicked out at least is not especially gay friendly. So 0:46:58.400 --> 0:47:00.839 we so we used fregam flyer myse we donate our 0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:03.560 money and so we now bring Rainbow Railroad gets people 0:47:03.920 --> 0:47:07.279 asylum in countries like Canada and Argentina. So it's been 0:47:07.320 --> 0:47:10.920 really I've gotten a chance to meet last summer in Toronto. 0:47:10.960 --> 0:47:15.359 They were about thirty uh people from Czechnia that we 0:47:15.400 --> 0:47:18.680 actually have helped through our campaign. Our readers donated millions 0:47:18.680 --> 0:47:20.200 of miles and they looked me in the eyes and 0:47:20.239 --> 0:47:22.040 are like the minute that that plane took off from 0:47:22.120 --> 0:47:23.640 Moscow and I knew that I was on my way 0:47:23.680 --> 0:47:26.120 to freedom, they just started bawling. And so it's kind 0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:27.919 of cool. So my whole thing on a giving back 0:47:28.000 --> 0:47:30.839 is like the power of travel can change lives, and 0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:32.640 I know I've changed as a person. I believe the 0:47:32.680 --> 0:47:37.239 more people travel in general, you know, barriers breakdown. So uh, 0:47:37.280 --> 0:47:39.600 it's really cool to be able to uh, you know, 0:47:39.760 --> 0:47:43.560 to help others. Quite interesting. So I have to ask 0:47:43.560 --> 0:47:48.280 you a couple of more business questions because, um, everything 0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:52.120 that's going on these days with Google and Facebook, traditional 0:47:52.120 --> 0:47:55.600 web advertising as a business not so great these days. 0:47:55.960 --> 0:47:59.560 So how are you balancing that? Um? Are you more 0:47:59.640 --> 0:48:02.480 driven by advertising? Is it more affiliate? How do you 0:48:02.600 --> 0:48:06.040 how do you deal with the declining um CPMs? And 0:48:06.280 --> 0:48:09.799 just essentially the web is infinite, well funny enough, you know, 0:48:09.800 --> 0:48:11.920 when I started, I thought, oh my god, this affiliate 0:48:11.920 --> 0:48:15.719 thing seems shady, you know, And It's funny now all 0:48:15.760 --> 0:48:18.120 the major publications are going affiliate. You know, New York 0:48:18.120 --> 0:48:21.560 Times has Wirecutter and um so affiliates where it's at 0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:24.600 because if if you truly have good content that helps 0:48:24.880 --> 0:48:27.600 your reader get a product they want, you know, it's 0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:30.239 it's the perfect but balance. So our our revenue has 0:48:30.239 --> 0:48:33.319 been wildly growing over the last several years. We also 0:48:33.320 --> 0:48:36.960 want to diversify so uh so we've never sold CPMs. 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:39.800 Really we do some small packages, but in general, I 0:48:39.800 --> 0:48:41.520 mean the bulk of our sales are affiliate and the 0:48:41.520 --> 0:48:44.359 credit card markets are strong. My biggest concern isn't as 0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:47.799 much Google and um you know, the privacy is a 0:48:47.800 --> 0:48:50.319 bigger concern, and especially as we create this app where 0:48:50.360 --> 0:48:52.200 people are going to share where they want to go 0:48:52.680 --> 0:48:55.640 and the airlines they want to fly and sharing, you know, 0:48:56.120 --> 0:48:58.560 so that to me, you know, we're getting ready for 0:48:58.600 --> 0:49:01.640 the California privacy laws are about to go into effect 0:49:01.640 --> 0:49:04.520 in January, which changes the game. So that space is 0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:08.399 really challenging, um even how you target consumers and and look, 0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:10.760 I believe we should have more privacy on the Internet. 0:49:11.440 --> 0:49:13.279 Europe is not so far off with what they're doing 0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:16.120 of all the way I mean, California is arguably more 0:49:16.239 --> 0:49:20.120 um more strict than GDPR, So it's a it's a 0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:22.960 challenging landscape, but I think what we focused on is 0:49:22.960 --> 0:49:25.680 just continuing to build out content for people that they love. 0:49:26.080 --> 0:49:29.760 Ad Blockers don't work when the advertisement is the content 0:49:29.840 --> 0:49:34.200 that people want to read. So although ad blocker extensions 0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:36.680 for Chrome and things like that, they stop working. Now 0:49:36.760 --> 0:49:39.400 it's easy enough to detect them and blur the content 0:49:39.800 --> 0:49:42.280 and say, if you want to access the content for free, 0:49:42.640 --> 0:49:45.279 you have to disable your ad blocker. So so that 0:49:45.480 --> 0:49:48.920 arms races ended. I think you guys have the right balance, 0:49:48.960 --> 0:49:52.520 the idea that if you have the right audience and 0:49:52.560 --> 0:49:56.680 the right demographic and they're consuming the content because they 0:49:56.719 --> 0:49:59.520 want to, not because you trick them into a click, 0:50:00.120 --> 0:50:03.319 that's got exactly. And the thing we've doubled down onto 0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:05.759 is community. So we've got this huge Facebook. You know, 0:50:05.800 --> 0:50:09.840 so Facebook stopped showing publishers in the news feed. Oh crap, 0:50:09.880 --> 0:50:11.680 what do you do? So what we've been doing for 0:50:11.760 --> 0:50:14.360 years we have a community. But people come to our events. 0:50:14.480 --> 0:50:17.040 Uh So on Facebook, we've got a TPG lounge it 0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:19.400 as I think over eighty thousand members. We just launched 0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:23.160 a small business community, a family community. We just launch 0:50:23.200 --> 0:50:25.600 our women's community, so now, I mean, and that's what 0:50:25.640 --> 0:50:27.719 Facebook's all about. So you just as a publisher, you've 0:50:27.719 --> 0:50:29.840 got to just keep evolving with the time. And that's 0:50:29.880 --> 0:50:32.200 that's I think My job is CEO Now it's I 0:50:32.239 --> 0:50:34.799 don't write posts as much anymore, although I am very 0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:38.759 very much uh involved in our total editorial process and 0:50:38.800 --> 0:50:40.760 pushing the team to be better and how we review 0:50:40.800 --> 0:50:44.520 flights and you know, creating higher quality content. But now 0:50:44.560 --> 0:50:47.279 it's shifting the landscape and I do I mean, our 0:50:47.320 --> 0:50:50.680 app is going to be the uh, the next generation 0:50:50.719 --> 0:50:53.200 of our company and how we'll be able to target 0:50:53.320 --> 0:50:56.839 content to people exactly for what they want. Today it's 0:50:56.880 --> 0:50:59.040 one size fits all. It can be very confusing to 0:50:59.040 --> 0:51:01.120 go to the points guy and be like, it's a lot, 0:51:01.160 --> 0:51:03.600 where do I start watch card? I just want to 0:51:03.640 --> 0:51:06.640 go here, And these tools that we're building are gonna 0:51:07.080 --> 0:51:10.120 save people time and tons of money. So I'm really excited. 0:51:10.320 --> 0:51:15.200 I'm I'm I'm looking forward to the app because the 0:51:15.320 --> 0:51:19.200 thing that you chastise me for before I have to 0:51:19.239 --> 0:51:23.359 ask about. So I will occasionally spend some money with 0:51:23.400 --> 0:51:28.000 Mike Chase Reserve card not on travel, spend some points 0:51:28.520 --> 0:51:32.640 on stuff, and often it's Amazon, because just drop it 0:51:32.680 --> 0:51:36.440 off on your front door. Um, you're telling me that's 0:51:36.480 --> 0:51:38.400 not the right way to do it. I'm much better 0:51:38.480 --> 0:51:45.279 off transferring those points to Delta. Well point, you can't 0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:47.600 transfer to Delta, But like Chase, points are super valuable 0:51:47.600 --> 0:51:50.680 when you transferred to United or high It or if 0:51:50.680 --> 0:51:52.959 you redeem for travel because you're getting one point five 0:51:52.960 --> 0:51:55.400 cents a point when when you say redeem for travel. 0:51:55.640 --> 0:51:57.759 So so Chase gives you two main options when it 0:51:57.800 --> 0:52:00.120 comes time to book travel. You can transfer United IT 0:52:00.320 --> 0:52:04.319 or Southwest or you know, Hiatt several other partners, or 0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:07.600 you can just use those points to buy tickets. Now 0:52:07.760 --> 0:52:10.080 with the Sapphire Reserve, what they will say is you 0:52:10.120 --> 0:52:12.400 get one point five cents a point, So a hundred 0:52:12.400 --> 0:52:17.040 thousand points is in travel. A hundred thousand points when 0:52:17.160 --> 0:52:20.439 used for gift cards is usually a thousand or less. 0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:23.600 So that's why I say where I cringe, use your 0:52:23.680 --> 0:52:25.879 Chase points for travel. And then if you truly want 0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:29.920 Amazon or merchandise, there are better cards that will give 0:52:29.920 --> 0:52:33.040 you more bang for your buck. So like a City 0:52:33.080 --> 0:52:36.160 double cash card, no annual fee, two percent back when 0:52:36.200 --> 0:52:38.200 you paid off each month. So if you spend a 0:52:38.280 --> 0:52:40.800 hundred thousand bucks on that, you're gonna get two thousand 0:52:40.800 --> 0:52:43.200 dollars to buy whatever you want. So you strike me 0:52:43.239 --> 0:52:45.160 as a guy who's got a dozen cards in as 0:52:45.200 --> 0:52:48.239 wallet probably double that. Really Yeah, well, I mean, isn't 0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:51.200 that kind of confusing to say I'm buying this? So 0:52:51.280 --> 0:52:53.360 let me figure out which? In our new app, it 0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:55.840 will literally say but you know, pay with this feature, 0:52:55.840 --> 0:52:58.239 so we'll tell you where you are. What you can say, 0:52:58.280 --> 0:53:00.880 I'm at Starbucks. We can actually say this this you know, 0:53:00.960 --> 0:53:03.680 this quarter put your Starbucks not on the sapphire, but 0:53:04.239 --> 0:53:07.680 you know, on your you know, Freedom card because Starbucks 0:53:07.680 --> 0:53:10.840 is the quarterly category. It's really really it changes. But 0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:13.120 that's the technology that we're building. And then we'll also, 0:53:13.280 --> 0:53:14.719 you know, a lot of credit cards these days will 0:53:14.719 --> 0:53:17.279 give you bonuses, you know, especially the airline cards. If 0:53:17.280 --> 0:53:20.280 you're if you're chasing elite status, you know, you spend 0:53:20.560 --> 0:53:22.880 on an American Airlines card, you'll get a bump, you know, 0:53:22.920 --> 0:53:25.680 an elite mile. So our app is going to track 0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:28.120 all of that and to make sure that not only 0:53:28.160 --> 0:53:31.239 the points, but that you're getting the maximum perks as well. 0:53:31.760 --> 0:53:33.839 You know there's master cards now that will give you 0:53:34.000 --> 0:53:36.319 five dollars off every lift ride, which most people don't 0:53:36.320 --> 0:53:42.160 even realize. That's a big that this new world master 0:53:42.200 --> 0:53:46.560 card gives you five dollars off every ride. So most 0:53:46.600 --> 0:53:49.920 it's really confusing to keep track of When will I 0:53:49.960 --> 0:53:52.040 be able to use your app to just swipe that 0:53:52.200 --> 0:53:54.000 and never have to think about it. It's coming out, 0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:56.520 and I would say, March of we're still we're in 0:53:56.560 --> 0:53:59.440 testing right now, we're breaking it. Um, it's gonna be 0:53:59.680 --> 0:54:03.880 worth a wait though, So March I'm excited about all right, 0:54:03.920 --> 0:54:05.880 So let's say we'll kill me for saying that. But 0:54:05.920 --> 0:54:08.600 early now they know when they have to all of 0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:10.680 a sudden, you just gave them a deadline, all right, 0:54:10.719 --> 0:54:12.799 so let's do our speed round. We'll we'll blow through 0:54:12.840 --> 0:54:15.839 this pretty quickly. Um. The ideas to kind of get 0:54:15.840 --> 0:54:18.839 to know a little bit more about Brian Kelly than 0:54:19.080 --> 0:54:22.480 than we know already. So so tell us what you're streaming, 0:54:22.520 --> 0:54:26.120 listening to, downloading, watching what what which got your attention 0:54:26.120 --> 0:54:28.720 these I am into the Morning show on Apple Plus 0:54:29.040 --> 0:54:33.200 the Morning I really you know, going on morning shows 0:54:33.280 --> 0:54:35.359 quite a bit. It's actually you know, I always see 0:54:35.400 --> 0:54:37.040 you know, I'm only there from my segment and leave, 0:54:37.080 --> 0:54:38.880 but you can always sense that there's like these power 0:54:38.920 --> 0:54:42.160 struggles on set, and so it's it's a fascinating watch 0:54:42.239 --> 0:54:44.080 and it's also a microcosm of like what's going on 0:54:44.080 --> 0:54:45.400 in our world today. So I think they've done a 0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:48.800 good job with that. Anything else you're you're downloading any podcast? 0:54:48.840 --> 0:54:51.359 What are you listening to podcast? You know my friend 0:54:51.440 --> 0:54:57.160 Heather McMahon, she's really hysterical comedian, uh McMahon, Heather McMahon. 0:54:57.160 --> 0:54:59.640 Her her podcast is called Absolutely Not and she just 0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:02.799 rail is on everything and travel in life. So I 0:55:02.840 --> 0:55:06.600 like a I like to feel good laughing podcast. And also, 0:55:06.680 --> 0:55:08.800 you know, I have to plug my podcast talking Points. 0:55:08.800 --> 0:55:10.360 Not that I listened to my own podcast because I 0:55:10.360 --> 0:55:14.440 get to experience it, but so I sometimes just as 0:55:14.320 --> 0:55:17.560 an aside, I find like on a shorter flight, sometimes 0:55:17.600 --> 0:55:19.720 I'm not going to watch a movie and I could 0:55:19.760 --> 0:55:24.239 just pop in a freaking omics or a Mark and 0:55:24.320 --> 0:55:27.359 it's a right, it's a perfect hour, and like, oh 0:55:27.400 --> 0:55:29.880 I'm here already. That's it really does help pass the time. 0:55:29.920 --> 0:55:31.560 I don't I live a block away from work, so 0:55:31.600 --> 0:55:34.239 I don't luckily to walk to work. So yeah, it's 0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:36.520 on planes. When I do listen to podcasts, now I 0:55:36.560 --> 0:55:39.399 get sometimes you're too tired to read. You don't even 0:55:39.440 --> 0:55:42.759 you don't even want to watch something energy to listen, 0:55:43.000 --> 0:55:45.839 but just to close your eyes, just like take take 0:55:45.880 --> 0:55:49.840 me away, caln absolutely. Um. So what's the most important 0:55:49.880 --> 0:55:52.680 thing people don't know about you? So interesting? I don't 0:55:52.680 --> 0:55:56.879 think many people know that. But I'm actually a development 0:55:57.000 --> 0:56:01.200 chief in a tribe in Ghana about an hour and 0:56:01.239 --> 0:56:05.240 a half outside of Akras. My name is nen Quescy 0:56:05.480 --> 0:56:08.200 matt te Chu the first and about four years ago, 0:56:08.400 --> 0:56:10.719 through the charity work I do there, the uh, the 0:56:10.760 --> 0:56:13.520 guy who's my partner in crime there, we've kind of 0:56:13.520 --> 0:56:16.400 elevated him as our head of peace movement in Africa 0:56:16.920 --> 0:56:18.560 as a way of saying thank you to everything I've 0:56:18.600 --> 0:56:22.400 done for him. Um, he made me. He bequeathed his 0:56:22.840 --> 0:56:26.160 title to me, um as a as a way of 0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:28.200 saying thank you for helping elevate his life with all 0:56:28.200 --> 0:56:30.200 these nobel peace Probably you grew up in poverty and 0:56:30.239 --> 0:56:32.960 now he's on the global stage with these Nobel laureates. 0:56:33.000 --> 0:56:35.200 So he made me a development chief and I go 0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:38.360 back at least once or twice a year, and um, 0:56:38.400 --> 0:56:41.840 it's really amazing. I've got all my robes and they, 0:56:42.120 --> 0:56:44.680 uh it's a it's a very unique. I took my 0:56:44.760 --> 0:56:46.839 parents there and they were just like, you know, they're 0:56:47.320 --> 0:56:48.799 they're like, how did you how did you go from 0:56:48.800 --> 0:56:50.919 just growing up in the Philly suburbs to now being 0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:54.360 a chief in in Ghana? You know that's you mentioned 0:56:54.360 --> 0:56:57.080 your parents. Um, who are some of your early mentors? 0:56:57.080 --> 0:56:59.680 And I suspect your your parents might be one of them. Yeah. 0:56:59.719 --> 0:57:01.799 My had I call him the original points guy. He's 0:57:01.840 --> 0:57:04.640 actually named Brian Kelly. He's the third boy of three 0:57:04.680 --> 0:57:07.680 boys and a girl. Um, and I always admired him. 0:57:07.719 --> 0:57:11.239 He was a business traveler and healthcare and um he 0:57:11.320 --> 0:57:13.720 taught me. And that was in the nineties is uh. 0:57:13.800 --> 0:57:15.400 He had points and he said, Brian, if you can 0:57:15.520 --> 0:57:16.720 I was twelve years old. He said, if you can 0:57:16.720 --> 0:57:18.480 figure out how to use these, will go on vacation. 0:57:18.600 --> 0:57:20.720 You know, family of six, we didn't have a ton 0:57:20.800 --> 0:57:23.840 of money to just blow on fancy vacations. And that 0:57:23.880 --> 0:57:25.080 was when I figured out how to go to the 0:57:25.120 --> 0:57:28.680 Cayman Islands and uh so, and he also started he 0:57:28.720 --> 0:57:31.000 gave me my first job. I started booking travel for him. 0:57:31.200 --> 0:57:34.160 Um because he so. My dad for sure is one 0:57:34.200 --> 0:57:36.840 of my earliest mentors. Now, did you ever tell him 0:57:36.840 --> 0:57:40.040 you were cheating and using Travelocity? I did, and and 0:57:40.120 --> 0:57:42.280 he's been at speaking gigs with me now and he 0:57:43.160 --> 0:57:44.880 laughed at me because I make it seem like he was. 0:57:45.080 --> 0:57:47.400 He was computer illiterate. That's why he paid me to do. 0:57:48.000 --> 0:57:50.040 He's like, you make me sound so stupid not knowing 0:57:50.040 --> 0:57:52.160 how to use a computer. I'm like, well, you kind 0:57:52.160 --> 0:57:57.680 of word that was information arbitrox. Um. So who influenced 0:57:57.680 --> 0:58:02.240 your approach to travel, to points to credit cards? Obviously 0:58:02.280 --> 0:58:05.600 your father? Who else? I mean Richard Branson in terms 0:58:05.640 --> 0:58:10.880 of travel and entrepreneurship and uh like he's just taught 0:58:10.880 --> 0:58:12.360 me a lot and I got got a chance to 0:58:12.440 --> 0:58:14.960 interview him on my podcast, and and just having fun 0:58:15.000 --> 0:58:16.960 in business. I think that was something I've lost along 0:58:16.960 --> 0:58:20.600 the way sometimes is it's not always fun, but too 0:58:20.640 --> 0:58:22.400 you do as a CEO of a business, you can 0:58:22.440 --> 0:58:25.080 set the tone, you know, and you can help hire 0:58:25.120 --> 0:58:27.360 people and motivate people to have fun. And I do 0:58:27.440 --> 0:58:31.240 believe businesses are more successful when people are really invested. Um. 0:58:31.240 --> 0:58:33.160 But in terms of traveling, I didn't grow. I didn't 0:58:33.160 --> 0:58:36.040 go to abroad until I was in college, really well 0:58:36.080 --> 0:58:38.840 besides the Cayman Islands. So I've learned to kind of 0:58:38.880 --> 0:58:40.640 be a traveler on my own in a certain way. 0:58:40.640 --> 0:58:43.280 But that's been kind of fun, um, I can imagine. 0:58:43.720 --> 0:58:46.600 So so let's talk about everybody's favorite question. Tell us 0:58:46.640 --> 0:58:49.520 about some of the books you enjoy reading. What What 0:58:49.560 --> 0:58:51.640 are some of your favorites? What are you reading now? So? 0:58:51.840 --> 0:58:55.120 I just finished Bob Iger's book The Ride of My Life, 0:58:55.120 --> 0:58:57.600 which I found really fascinating. And also, you know, I've 0:58:57.640 --> 0:59:01.240 been running the Points Guy for going on ten years now, 0:59:01.360 --> 0:59:03.320 and he had a similar thing where he no one 0:59:03.320 --> 0:59:05.200 wanted him to keep running Disney because he was the 0:59:05.240 --> 0:59:08.680 old guy, you know, fresh new leadership, and of course 0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:10.480 that always goes, you know, even though the Points Guy, 0:59:10.520 --> 0:59:12.720 frankly as a big business is only you know for 0:59:12.720 --> 0:59:15.400 the last several years. But I do worry about myself 0:59:15.480 --> 0:59:17.920 and staying and how do I be creative? How do 0:59:17.960 --> 0:59:20.960 we push and innovate? So I thought his book was 0:59:21.040 --> 0:59:22.880 really really I didn't know a lot of it behind 0:59:22.920 --> 0:59:26.680 the scenes stuff. I also read Travis the book Uh 0:59:26.720 --> 0:59:30.120 Super Pumped, which is the about I mean that have 0:59:30.160 --> 0:59:34.720 you read. It is insane, it's it's a page turner, 0:59:34.760 --> 0:59:37.200 and it's also a perfect model of how to not 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:40.560 run a business. I mean the stories, I mean, and 0:59:40.600 --> 0:59:42.840 they're all sourced too. I mean, this is not just 0:59:42.880 --> 0:59:44.720 like a gossip, even though they want you to think that, 0:59:44.800 --> 0:59:48.360 like what was going on in the that bro culture. 0:59:49.120 --> 0:59:52.120 And so those two books I've read recently and I 0:59:52.160 --> 0:59:55.760 really liked. And then in terms of inspiration, Layma Bowie. 0:59:55.840 --> 0:59:59.840 She's a Nobel Peace Prize winner from Liberia. She brought 1:00:00.040 --> 1:00:02.479 hmen together to help end the bloody civil war there, 1:00:02.640 --> 1:00:04.920 and she wrote this book, Mighty Be Our Powers, and 1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:07.040 it's just the story. She was on the floor of 1:00:07.040 --> 1:00:11.320 a refugee camp, had no degree, had three kids and 1:00:11.400 --> 1:00:14.640 alcoholic husband, and it was her whole story and rising 1:00:14.720 --> 1:00:16.600 up being a community leader. And now she's, you know, 1:00:17.000 --> 1:00:19.440 on the floor of the u N opening up sessions 1:00:19.480 --> 1:00:22.040 and she is this world leader and it's like it 1:00:22.080 --> 1:00:24.520 really gives you that inspiration that you know, even on 1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:28.280 our worst days, we've got it pretty good, to say 1:00:28.320 --> 1:00:31.560 the least. By the way, if you liked the Uber book, 1:00:31.600 --> 1:00:35.040 did you read Bad Blood? I did not, so I 1:00:35.120 --> 1:00:37.160 haven't read the Uber book, but it's the top of 1:00:37.200 --> 1:00:41.440 my list, and it sounds very much like John Carrirew's 1:00:41.480 --> 1:00:44.640 book Bad Blood about Sarah Knows. Oh yeah, so I'm 1:00:44.680 --> 1:00:48.000 gonna make that I'm gonna do on Netflix, which we're 1:00:48.280 --> 1:00:52.120 not sane. It's insane. The book goes into so much detail. 1:00:53.280 --> 1:00:56.040 I I know, I'm going to really like the Uber book. 1:00:56.400 --> 1:00:58.960 And based on you really like Uber book, this is 1:00:59.000 --> 1:01:02.080 you should for your next flight. You'll plow through it. 1:01:02.080 --> 1:01:05.040 It was really a fast read. Um tell us about 1:01:05.040 --> 1:01:07.800 a time you failed and what you learned from the experience. 1:01:08.240 --> 1:01:12.000 I would actually say so in college in general, I failed, 1:01:12.000 --> 1:01:15.040 Like I'm a smart guy, but I just, I mean, 1:01:15.040 --> 1:01:18.040 I think I do have a certain level of a 1:01:18.160 --> 1:01:20.360 d D. And going to lecture, I mean, I just 1:01:20.440 --> 1:01:23.600 I couldn't care less. I mean, I failed astronomy. I 1:01:23.640 --> 1:01:27.480 went to University of Pittsburgh and it wasn't But what 1:01:27.520 --> 1:01:30.880 I learned was I think I think I learned. So 1:01:30.880 --> 1:01:32.680 I was student body president, I was ahead of my 1:01:32.720 --> 1:01:35.080 fraternity recruitment. I was like, I really put all my 1:01:35.160 --> 1:01:38.840 energy into people and what I really like doing and 1:01:39.040 --> 1:01:42.400 I think, you know, and I got rejected from m 1:01:42.520 --> 1:01:45.440 y U in high school and it's always it crushed me, 1:01:46.000 --> 1:01:47.800 and now it's kind of cool that you know. I 1:01:48.000 --> 1:01:50.880 uh So, the lesson kids is don't worry about academics. 1:01:50.920 --> 1:01:53.000 It's the an extent. I mean, you look at so 1:01:53.000 --> 1:01:56.320 many successful people in business and now many academics are 1:01:56.400 --> 1:01:59.320 very successful. But I don't know, just throw yourself into 1:01:59.400 --> 1:02:01.520 something that you like that's going to get you further. 1:02:02.160 --> 1:02:04.600 And what I learned being student body president was more 1:02:04.640 --> 1:02:09.040 than any you know, intro to you know, economics one 1:02:09.040 --> 1:02:11.160 on one. So I was gonna ask you what you 1:02:11.200 --> 1:02:14.400 do for fun? But it seems travel right, Well, you know, 1:02:14.560 --> 1:02:16.440 if I could teleport, I would I true, I mean 1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:17.880 I have look, I have a good time. I have 1:02:17.920 --> 1:02:19.600 a good time on playing well, let me let me 1:02:19.640 --> 1:02:22.560 interrupt you. Are you a star Trek fan? I am 1:02:22.640 --> 1:02:24.720 not at all right, so you should be aware of 1:02:24.720 --> 1:02:29.720 the fact. The problem with teleportation is hold the hold 1:02:29.760 --> 1:02:34.920 the physics issues asside. Essentially, we take you apart molecule 1:02:34.920 --> 1:02:38.160 by molecule, make a map of exactly what you are, 1:02:39.040 --> 1:02:43.840 and transport you send energy to another location where the 1:02:43.960 --> 1:02:49.120 rebuild you molecule by molecule. So effectively, we've killed you 1:02:49.680 --> 1:02:53.040 and rebuilt a new one of you. Not the greatest 1:02:53.040 --> 1:02:55.840 thing in the world. What what is it like? Is 1:02:55.880 --> 1:02:58.760 it like jet lag times at thousand? Whenever you teleport? 1:02:59.200 --> 1:03:02.320 Well from the strange trek version is you're fine, You're 1:03:02.320 --> 1:03:05.760 just stopping going so and you are limited in distance, 1:03:05.920 --> 1:03:09.800 but you can teleport from space to wherever. But when 1:03:09.880 --> 1:03:13.320 you actually think about the way it works. What was 1:03:13.400 --> 1:03:17.160 the recent Netflix show or maybe it was the Amazon 1:03:17.200 --> 1:03:22.480 Prime show? Um, I'm drawing a blank on it where 1:03:22.520 --> 1:03:26.600 effectively someone goes to get clones and they killed the 1:03:26.640 --> 1:03:28.960 clone to kill the original and keep the clone. The 1:03:29.000 --> 1:03:32.720 clone is updated and healthier, and I'm drawing a blank 1:03:32.800 --> 1:03:36.680 on the name. But so, okay, maybe I won't time travel, 1:03:36.720 --> 1:03:40.000 but for fun, I do like exploring, not other universes, 1:03:40.000 --> 1:03:42.760 but the underwater world. I'm a huge scuba dive, So 1:03:42.760 --> 1:03:44.760 what do you like to go? So you mentioned the Caymans, 1:03:44.800 --> 1:03:46.360 which is great. I'm actually one of my best size 1:03:46.400 --> 1:03:48.240 was cams. I do Maldive, so I'm actually going there 1:03:48.280 --> 1:03:54.840 this holiday seasons. Um. I had a disappointing dive in 1:03:54.920 --> 1:03:58.320 the Great Barrier Reef. It was bad conditions. But one 1:03:58.360 --> 1:04:00.200 of my big trips I want to take that I 1:04:00.240 --> 1:04:05.160 haven't really done is Palau, South Pacific little because all 1:04:05.200 --> 1:04:08.080 those reefs are going away, right, It's crazy down there, 1:04:08.160 --> 1:04:10.960 the barrier reef is dying. It's I mean it's visible 1:04:11.000 --> 1:04:16.720 from face space. Yes, actually, uh you could see the 1:04:16.800 --> 1:04:20.480 in the in the some of the satellite photos. Huge 1:04:20.640 --> 1:04:24.040 miles and miles have died also. It's crazy. Um, So 1:04:24.120 --> 1:04:26.960 what are you most optimistic about relative to travel today? 1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:29.200 And what do you most pessimists. I think we just 1:04:29.240 --> 1:04:32.240 start touched on. The most pessimistic is the climate. You know, 1:04:32.280 --> 1:04:35.040 I live in Miami too, I split split my time there, 1:04:35.040 --> 1:04:37.080 and just seeing that, you know, reading the article, is 1:04:37.120 --> 1:04:39.680 that in thirty years Miami could be underwater. And now 1:04:39.680 --> 1:04:42.640 that they may, they may stop. You know, the whole 1:04:42.720 --> 1:04:46.200 state may go under soon. Because you know, let's be honest, though, 1:04:46.280 --> 1:04:50.560 that wouldn't be the worst, right right, No, No, I'm 1:04:50.560 --> 1:04:52.560 not New Yorker. And you know you look at Florida. 1:04:52.640 --> 1:04:56.320 It's like, all right, if Florida goes underwater, they're a 1:04:56.360 --> 1:04:59.440 worse environment. So yeah, so the climate chain stuff and 1:04:59.440 --> 1:05:01.280 and you know, Fran the guilt from you know, even 1:05:01.320 --> 1:05:04.320 though we carbon offset all of our employees travel, you know, 1:05:04.400 --> 1:05:07.120 it's you know, I'm in a business that's encouraging millions 1:05:07.120 --> 1:05:10.640 of people to travel more so that now I still believe, 1:05:10.720 --> 1:05:13.680 you know, travels ten percent of global GDP. It lifts 1:05:13.720 --> 1:05:16.840 people up, it changes people. So but it isn't you know, 1:05:16.920 --> 1:05:22.160 seeing what's happening on Earth is pretty It isn't Airline 1:05:22.160 --> 1:05:24.320 travel much more efficient than getting in the car and 1:05:24.440 --> 1:05:26.680 driving cross country. I mean, I think there's a lot 1:05:26.760 --> 1:05:28.760 of ways to slice and dice it. I mean, for 1:05:28.840 --> 1:05:31.800 frequent flyers, your carbon footprint is much more than anyone 1:05:31.800 --> 1:05:35.880 in a car um But optimistically speaking, I mean, I 1:05:35.880 --> 1:05:37.760 think this is a golden age of travel in terms 1:05:37.840 --> 1:05:41.040 of you know, these new planes that are more carbon efficient, safer, 1:05:41.120 --> 1:05:42.960 you can now travel. I just sent one of my 1:05:43.000 --> 1:05:45.800 employees on that quantist flight from JFK to Sydney NonStop. 1:05:46.680 --> 1:05:50.680 N I think it might have even crossed twenty But 1:05:50.720 --> 1:05:53.240 even you know, New Ork to Singapore's eighteen and a 1:05:53.320 --> 1:05:55.160 half now, So the fact that you can fly on 1:05:55.320 --> 1:05:57.720 safe safer than ever, it's still cheap. You can still 1:05:57.760 --> 1:06:00.920 go to Europe from under five bucks. We had Asia 1:06:00.960 --> 1:06:04.880 deals this class. You know recently that we're to go 1:06:04.920 --> 1:06:10.040 to Asia round trip, but you can't. Really, it's crazy 1:06:10.080 --> 1:06:13.000 and even business class. So I think I'm optimistic. In general, 1:06:13.040 --> 1:06:16.680 travel is connecting the world more than ever, Um, But 1:06:16.840 --> 1:06:19.120 we just gotta we gotta treat mother Earth a little 1:06:19.160 --> 1:06:21.439 bit better. And what sort of advice would you give 1:06:21.480 --> 1:06:24.360 to a recent college grad just starting their career who 1:06:24.400 --> 1:06:29.800 was interested in in either travel or points or even website. 1:06:29.880 --> 1:06:31.680 The biggest thing is, you know, first of all, treat 1:06:31.720 --> 1:06:34.840 your credit score like an asset. I was dumb in college. 1:06:34.840 --> 1:06:37.280 I didn't pay I didn't pay a Verizon bill. I 1:06:37.360 --> 1:06:39.520 moved down to my frat house. Three years later, I'm 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:41.640 living in New York and it's two thousand dollars or 1:06:41.720 --> 1:06:44.240 docking my pay. It was like the biggest pain I've 1:06:44.240 --> 1:06:46.600 ever dealt with. So never stick your head in your 1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:48.880 sand with your finances, even if you can't handle it, 1:06:48.920 --> 1:06:50.800 there's so many ways, and even if you just pay 1:06:51.000 --> 1:06:54.480 the minimum to and then you know, but never mess 1:06:54.560 --> 1:06:57.000 up your credit score. It takes years. And then in 1:06:57.080 --> 1:06:59.680 terms of UH in general, I see. So you know, 1:06:59.720 --> 1:07:02.840 college grads, um, take the opportunity has given you. At work, 1:07:02.880 --> 1:07:05.120 I've I've even you know, most of my employees are millennials. 1:07:05.640 --> 1:07:08.160 Take the take the job that may not seem to 1:07:08.240 --> 1:07:09.840 you at the time to make a lot of sense. 1:07:09.840 --> 1:07:12.600 But when people give you an opportunity, jump on it. Um. 1:07:12.720 --> 1:07:14.560 You know, I think the millennials always so worried about 1:07:14.560 --> 1:07:15.840 I don't want to get stuck in doing this for 1:07:15.840 --> 1:07:18.560 the rest of my life. Like, take this project, you're 1:07:18.600 --> 1:07:20.760 not going to you know, if you're a good employee, 1:07:20.800 --> 1:07:22.400 if you you bring a lot to the table, and 1:07:22.440 --> 1:07:24.520 if you're a team player, that's what's going to propel 1:07:24.560 --> 1:07:26.560 you more so than staying on this. Oh, I like 1:07:26.720 --> 1:07:29.120 this specific thing that I'm doing now, and I want to, 1:07:29.560 --> 1:07:32.200 you know, make yourself uncomfortable. That's how you become valuable 1:07:32.200 --> 1:07:34.439 for the company and they'll find the place to put 1:07:34.440 --> 1:07:37.080 you totally. And our final question, what do you know 1:07:37.120 --> 1:07:40.160 about the worlds of Points and travel today that you 1:07:40.240 --> 1:07:42.880 wish you knew ten or twenty years ago when you 1:07:42.920 --> 1:07:48.360 first started playing the Points game? You know, I learn 1:07:48.560 --> 1:07:51.120 every day. You know. Actually, when I launched it, I 1:07:52.120 --> 1:07:54.080 there were other and there so are other travel blockers 1:07:54.080 --> 1:07:55.640 who are way smarter than me in terms of the 1:07:55.680 --> 1:08:03.600 points and miles, and um, I think in general, um, 1:08:03.640 --> 1:08:05.880 it's not about being the smartest. I still learned stuff 1:08:05.880 --> 1:08:09.040 every single day from our community and emails. It's it's 1:08:09.080 --> 1:08:10.720 you know, we always peg ourselves as this going to 1:08:10.800 --> 1:08:13.720 be am I the best at this? Uh. I think 1:08:13.720 --> 1:08:16.280 in general points, I mean, and anything you learn, it's 1:08:16.280 --> 1:08:19.920 going to constantly evolve and change. So UM, I would 1:08:19.960 --> 1:08:23.320 just say this industry will keep changing. It's not over 1:08:23.439 --> 1:08:25.960 and it's been changing for time as well. So instead 1:08:25.960 --> 1:08:29.040 of uh, you know, just be optimistic in general about 1:08:29.080 --> 1:08:32.360 everything and go with the flow. Quite fascinating. We have 1:08:32.479 --> 1:08:35.880 been speaking with Brian Kelly, better known as the Points Guy. 1:08:36.160 --> 1:08:38.439 If you enjoy this conversation, well look up an Inch 1:08:38.520 --> 1:08:40.680 or Down an Inch on Apple iTunes, where you can 1:08:40.720 --> 1:08:44.120 see any of the three hundred previous such conversations we've 1:08:44.120 --> 1:08:47.400 had over the past five years. We love your comments, 1:08:47.400 --> 1:08:51.480 feedback and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast 1:08:51.479 --> 1:08:54.280 at Bloomberg dot net, Go to Apple iTunes, Please give 1:08:54.360 --> 1:08:56.880 us a review, share your thoughts with us. Check out 1:08:56.960 --> 1:08:59.880 my weekly column on Bloomberg dot com. Sign up for 1:09:00.000 --> 1:09:04.439 our daily reads at dalts dot com. I'm Barry Rihalts. 1:09:04.880 --> 1:09:08.559 You've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio 1:09:14.240 --> 1:09:14.280 m