1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Christian Sager. Robert, 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: what is the worst pain you have ever felt? Oh, 5 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: this is a good question. Um, well, this is a 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: tough one, you know, because I'm pretty lucky in that 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: I haven't had any major injuries thus far, any major, 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: major lye painful life experiences. Um. I guess the the 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: one moment that comes to mind the most just when 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: I had an ingrown toenail. Okay, this is years and 11 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: years ago, and I tried to address it myself with 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 1: some sort of which I do not advise anyone to do, 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: with some sort of bathroom surgery and imagining you with 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: like a bowie knife in the bathroom, basically like tweezers 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: and whatnot. And I should not have been doing this, 16 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: but there was a moment there where I almost blacked out. 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: Oh wow, And you know, this is just a tonnail. 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: But I guess everything is just so um you know 19 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: tight in their yeah, the the nerve endings at all, 20 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: but that that stands out as a moment of rather 21 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: intense pain. But it was just such a fleeting moment too. 22 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: There was no it was immediately back out of it. 23 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, flying and then dipping down into 24 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: a canyon and then saying, oh, that's a little bit 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: too much and then coming back out. See the fact 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: that it's your toneail is interesting to me because today's 27 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: topic is connected to something I think about a lot 28 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: when I watched action movies, which is like, inevitably somebody's 29 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: getting tortured, and in the back of my head, I'm 30 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: kind of like, how would I do in these scenarios? 31 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: And I think I could probably deal with a fingernail 32 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: getting ripped out, But I don't know. When you say that, 33 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: it makes me think like they're so tied in to 34 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: your nervous system that that's just something I don't have 35 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: any qualification of understanding for. You know, well, it's those 36 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: all pains we can certainly understand a little a little better. 37 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: You know, when we're watching a movie, if we have 38 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: a character that gets their arm blown off, most of 39 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: us have no frame of reference for that sort of thing. 40 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: But if the character breaks a finger, or their fingernail rips, 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,119 Speaker 1: or there's a there's a moment in raising Arizona where 42 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: it is a fight between John Goodman's character Nicholas Cage's 43 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: character and one goes to do a double axe handle 44 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: on the other and they scraped their knuckles across the 45 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: ceiling of the the popcorn ceiling of the trailer, and like, 46 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: that's a moment where we can feel it because yeah, 47 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: because we can relate, we can maybe have not helped 48 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: that exact sensation, but we we have a better idea 49 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: of what that consists. Off. Yeah, I'm like you in 50 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: that I am lucky knock on wood that I have 51 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: not had any you know, I've never broken any bones 52 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: to my knowledge. I've had major surgery once and I 53 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: was pretty well under with anesthetic. But the worst I 54 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: can think of, like when when somebody first asks me this, 55 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: I always think of um sometimes. So I have two 56 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: different types of contact solution. One is just like your 57 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: daily cleaning solution is one. One is the overnight storage 58 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: and it's got some kind of acidic thing in it 59 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: that you're not supposed to put directly in your eye, 60 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: and I maybe once a year make the mistake of 61 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: accidentally putting it in my eye and it burns so bad, 62 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: it really hurts but every time I do it, I 63 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: start thinking like God, this is this is super painful, 64 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: but it starts leaning into a point of not pleasure, 65 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: but just sort of meditative transcendence of like everything just 66 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: evens out and the pain is still there, but I 67 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: but I'm just kind of it's flatline isn't the right word, 68 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, Like it's just everything else, 69 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: all other senses sort of level out all of a 70 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: sudden and there's no longer like any kind of overstimulation 71 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: and it's just the pain. And there's something kind of 72 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: nice about that. Well, this reminds me a lot of 73 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: doing yoga and what I sometimes think about like young 74 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: really and literally fit people who are doing yoga. I 75 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: kind of want to say, look, if you if you 76 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: don't have injuries, if you don't have soreness, then you 77 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: can't get how much can you possibly be getting out 78 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: of this? Because for me, like sometimes it's working with 79 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: a part of your body that's sore where you get 80 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: into these um these sensations that are difficult to categorize. 81 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: Like a few years back, I had to some risk 82 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: injury minor risk injury, but it made it difficult to 83 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: put a lot of direct pressure down, but there were 84 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: some poses where I'm like where I'm bending my risk 85 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: in the other way and putting like subtle pressure there, 86 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: and the resulting sensation was it was difficult to categorize 87 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: because it certainly it wasn't really pleasurable, but it wasn't 88 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: pain either. It was it was a very soothing, you know, 89 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: sense of relief that I felt, and I and it 90 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 1: and it was in somewhere in that gray area betwixt 91 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: the I knew this woman once who was she was 92 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: in my yoga class, but she was also some day 93 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: I knew outside of yoga who was nine months pregnant, 94 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: and she was like really good at yoga, and she 95 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: got into scorpion pose like a week before she gave 96 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: birth to her daughter, and I was just like a 97 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: completely stunned, like like not only like what must that 98 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: feel like, because you know, you're you're carrying this extra weight, 99 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: it's a completely different body dimension, but also just like 100 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: the discipline that she must have in her yoga practice 101 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: to be able to pull that off. Oh man, Yeah, 102 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: scorpion is a tough one. Super I can't do scorpion, 103 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: And yeah, I've never been par oh and by the way, 104 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: I don't mightn't mean to imply that young fit people 105 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: can't get something out of yoga. Everybody can get something 106 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: out of yoga. But I'm just saying if you have 107 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: if you have an injury or a soreness, depending on 108 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: the degree of the injury, UH, yoga can open up 109 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: sort of new pathwayte of understanding what do Yeah, well, 110 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: here's a if you're young and fit and you're not 111 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: getting anything out of yoga, maybe you should consider body suspension. 112 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: Y Yeah, move on up to the next level. That's 113 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: what our topic is today. This is why we're talking 114 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: about pain and pleasure at the top is that we've 115 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: actually had I think multiple listeners right into us because 116 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: we've just sort of brought it up casually in the past, 117 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: the idea of body suspension, and we've had people send 118 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: us photos and write to us about their experiences with it, 119 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: and we decided, you know what, let's take a deep 120 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: look at like how this works. There's there is a 121 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: lot of science behind it, a lot of math. Yeah, 122 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: there's certainly physics and UH and in medicine that are 123 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: involved in approaching it. And then in terms of understanding 124 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: what's happening with pain and interpreting the sensations that are 125 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: going on. There's of course a lot of research into 126 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: just the human experience totally. Yeah. Now, a number of 127 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: you may remember from our Listener mail episode we heard 128 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: from a listener by the name of Ainsley and she 129 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: wrote in and she shared her own experience with the 130 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: with hook suspension, and she says, quote, I fell in love. 131 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: I was allowed to feel and bleed and openly respect 132 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: the process of each It was a whole new world 133 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: for me. Suspension became my life. And when I read 134 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: those words, it made me think back to a book 135 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: that I read a while back titled The Body and 136 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: Pain by E. Laine Scary, and it's a This is 137 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,679 Speaker 1: a one of these deep, deep considerations of the idea 138 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: of pain, not only in terms of just physical experience, 139 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: but what it means philosophically and politically socially. Um. It 140 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: is a it is a deep read, but but one 141 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: of the things that she talks about in it, so 142 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: I pret pretty much. Her main statement in the book 143 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: is that an individual's physical pain has no voice, but 144 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: when it finds a voice, it begins to tell a story, 145 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: a story of of of the vast distances between your 146 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: experience of pain and my own. Uh. She even describes 147 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: this distance as being interstellar, like, that's the that's the 148 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: space between my understanding of pain and another person's experience 149 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,239 Speaker 1: of pain. This is a really good example of how 150 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: lonely humanity can be in a way, and that like 151 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: there's no way for us to possibly understand what another 152 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: person's level of pain is. Yeah, the either the limits 153 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: or at least the challenges of of human empathy, right. Uh. 154 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: And then on top of that, we have the complications 155 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: that are inherent in that distance, our an ability to 156 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,119 Speaker 1: to understand each other's pains, and in the very nature 157 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: of human creation. So she ties all of that up. 158 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: And of course authors and artists often cite pain is 159 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: a necessary part of creation, some more than others. But 160 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, it makes it makes you think, you know, 161 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: if we're if we're pretty much okay with that idea 162 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: that that that out of pain, out of personal suffering, 163 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: we can create these these great things. And how how 164 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: weird is it really for someone to engage in some 165 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: careful manipulation of pain sensation. Yeah, I've I've got to say, 166 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: like this is something like I'm constantly coming to terms 167 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: within the real life. Is that like things that I 168 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: think of as being like not normal but not being abnormal, 169 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: like body suspension. I'm constantly surprised when other people around 170 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: me are like, whoa, that's so weird, or what is 171 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: wrong with you? Or that kind of thing. Not that 172 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: I've done body suspension, and I'm not particularly into body 173 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: modification in any way, but I understand it, like I 174 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: I can identify with what people seem to be getting 175 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: out of this experience. It's I think, in a similar way, 176 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up yoga, like it's similar to 177 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: what I've gotten out of yoga before. But it's also like, um, 178 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: you and I have talked about sensory deprivation tanks on 179 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: the show before. I can imagine that they're similar experiences. 180 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: It's just that the pain part isn't there. Yeah, and 181 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: and it's certainly not for everyone, to say the least, 182 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: there's very much in an outsider enterprise. But but of 183 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: course here's the thing. It's it's still something that emerges 184 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: from the human experience and merges in and at least 185 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: a few different human cultures. So it's worth exploring. Like 186 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: we can't just it's it's easy to look at it, 187 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: and especially if you look at say a media representation 188 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: of it, be it you know, dateline denied or whatever, 189 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: or or the cell. The cell is the go to 190 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: I mean the minute, Uh, anybody brings this up, I 191 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: always think of Vincent din Afrio in The Cell. And 192 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: it's really, especially after doing the research, I think it's 193 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: like a kind of horrible negative depiction of this process. 194 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: And probably I would imagine people in this suspension community 195 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: probably don't feel great about how they're portrayed in that movie. Yeah, 196 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: because he's a he's a serial killer character in it, 197 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: and he's you know, he's using it to sort of 198 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: hurt himself while hurting others, and he only does it 199 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: to himself by himself. Yeah, Whereas in as we're going 200 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: to discuss, actual hook suspensions tend to be more of 201 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: a like a seemingly communal experience where they're the people 202 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: facilitating the suspension and those observing it. And you see 203 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: that not only in sort of the the modern primitive 204 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: industrial uh you know, subculture of hook suspension, but even 205 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: some of the traditional users of hook suspension that will 206 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: discuss as well from from Native American and uh In 207 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: Indian traditions. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean this goes back a 208 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: long ways, like five thousand years. But still it's difficult 209 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: for I think most people to get past the idea 210 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: that this is somebody that is intentionally suffering, intentionally doing 211 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: harm to their body and it and we just we 212 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: we tend to just say, oh well then just must 213 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 1: be a complete whackadoodle and you just put up this wall. 214 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: I'm not getting like, I'm just like walls up, shields up. 215 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: I'm not going to attempt to interact with that or 216 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: empathize with that in any other form. Well, you know, 217 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: like I guess because of like the people that I've 218 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: spent time with that things like other body modification practices 219 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: like tattooing, piercing, even scarification or or gauging like seem 220 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: like totally normal things that like people in my everyday 221 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: life have gone through. So it's like, what is the 222 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: line that is drawn where you go like, well, tattooing 223 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: is totally normal and that's okay, but putting hooks through 224 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: yourself and suspending is not. You know, I don't know, 225 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: like I see that there's different levels again, like there's 226 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 1: variations and pain thresholds too. But like, I get it. 227 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not in any rush to go hook 228 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: myself up and do it. Um. But I but I 229 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: feel like I understand. Why don't we actually give the 230 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: audience like a very basic definition of what we mean 231 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 1: when we say body suspension. So this is a form 232 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 1: of body modification that involves hanging the human body by 233 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: hooks that are attached to ropes. So I think a 234 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: lot of us have various ideas of what it means 235 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: that we're going to go through it into deeper detail. Um. 236 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: The other form of body modification that I that I 237 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: am unfamiliar with that we've talked about here at How 238 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: Stuff Works before. I don't think we've done a show 239 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: on it is subdermal implantation. Uh. And that's something I'm 240 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: also really interested in. We have a pretty good article 241 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: with some excellent infographics on subdermal implantation on the site. Yeah, 242 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: I may have done something. I think I've touched on 243 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: it a little bit on the blogs before. Some forms 244 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: of subdermal implants um, notably I think the bagel head things, 245 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: which ultimately was not a very big thing at all. Right, Yeah, 246 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: what if it's sailing and the forehead and then sort 247 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: of make an intention that was kind of like a bagel, 248 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: but it was this was hard. It was hardly a trend. 249 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: But it's kind of an interesting study in what happens 250 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: when a few people do something that is kind of 251 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: weird or rather weird, and then it gets blown out 252 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: of proportion by the media. Right, It's not like the 253 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: people who give themselves like horns. Yeah, but it's also 254 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: worth noting again that you know, what's normal within one 255 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: community is not normal in another, and even major supporters 256 00:13:55,480 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: of suspension, such as suspension artist Alan Faulkner, he points out, quote, 257 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 1: hanging from hooks is hardly seen as a normal activity. 258 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: That's from an artical eroded safe piercing dot org. So 259 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's like any like really niche thing 260 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: one maybe into you know, you admit that it's not 261 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,599 Speaker 1: the mainstream thing, and you really you don't want it 262 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: to be the mainstream thing. I haven't seen anybody that 263 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: engages in in hook suspension that's saying, hey, we really 264 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: need to get this everybody. You know, we shouldn't be 265 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: doing this in public schools. Yeah, nobody's making that argument. 266 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: Everyone is seems to be rather cool with the fact 267 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: that this is a very specialist interest. But at one time, 268 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: for some cultures, it was I don't know, I don't 269 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: want to say normal, but it was a part of 270 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: their ritualistic behavior. So let's take a look at the 271 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: history of it for a minute. And we're going to 272 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: start in North America. Actually, uh, I don't think we 273 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: have records of how far back this practice goes in 274 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: North America. But this is the O keepaw hooks suspension ceremony, right, 275 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: and it's it's a much larger ceremony than just the 276 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: hook suspension. Yeah. And and before we get into that, 277 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: I do want to also point out that pain, of course, 278 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: is a very normal, everyday aspect of human lives. And 279 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: so you see uh, rituals of pain and just about 280 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: every culture, and then that includes Christian culture, Islamic culture, 281 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: Hindu culture, pretty much anywhere you go, there's gonna be 282 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: some sort of right of passage, some sort of of 283 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: of self inflicting um ritual that pops up as at 284 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: some point or another. Yeah, maybe we should do an 285 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: episode on self flagellation at something. Yeah, that's it's a 286 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: fascinating topic onto itself. But here in in North America, Yeah, 287 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: we had the the Okipa hook suspension ceremony, and this 288 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: was practiced by the North what's now North Dakotan uh 289 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: Mandan tribe. So it was a ride of passage and 290 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: the ceremony saw hook suspended warriors twist and swing until 291 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: the inner ed a transcendent state. And for you, film 292 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: buffs out there. Uh. The nineteen seventy film starring Richard Harris, 293 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: A man called Horse, depicted the right in a rather 294 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: memorable scene. I remember seeing the scene, or at least 295 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: a trailer for it on like KBS or something back 296 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: in the day, and it really confused me. I had 297 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: no idea what was going on. I thought, Oh, they're 298 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: torturing that guy. That's horrible what they're doing to him. 299 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: But I had no idea. I've never seen this movie, 300 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: but I am picturing older Richard Harris. I'm picturing like 301 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: Dumbledore Richard Harris instead of you know, I imagine in 302 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: the seventies he was probably what like a man in 303 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: his forties or something like that. He was I'm not 304 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: sure what his age was, but he was definitely like 305 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: leathery but still handsome Richard Harris. Yeah, well, this particular ceremony, 306 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: as I said, it's a four day ceremony, and suspension 307 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: is just one part of it. They also have a 308 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: long vigil, there's dancing, and then trials of endurance, of 309 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: which the suspension is part of it. So what they 310 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: would do is they suspend young warriors from the roof 311 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: of the tribe's lodge by ropes that were attached to 312 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: skewers in their chest, back or shoulders. And sometimes they 313 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: would add weights as well that were attached to their 314 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: legs to increase the pain. Now here's the thing in 315 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: this culture, if you cried out in pain, you were 316 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: considered cowardly. So the ceremony itself didn't end until they 317 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: were lowered, and then they had their left pinky finger 318 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: removed with a hatchet, and then there was a run 319 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: around the village with the skewers and weights all still 320 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: in place. Uh. This was first documented by white men 321 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: in eighteen thirty five by a guy named George Catlin, 322 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: and he was a painter apparently, I think he was 323 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: just like visiting this community. He witnessed it and then 324 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: brought it back. The last ceremony of this nature. Well, 325 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: the public I think that took place was in eighteen 326 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: eighty nine. And and in public again is as an 327 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: or at least semi public. Is the is an important 328 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: thing to drive home because again these are communal experiences. Right, 329 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: It's not just somebody hanging alone in a tent. Uh. 330 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: They're being suspended as part of this right. And as 331 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: we'll find out later, the modern suspension practice has its 332 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: roots in the Okipa ceremony. Now, if we travel all 333 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: the way around the world, we get to Hinduism and 334 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: at least two additional suspension rights. Uh, probably more, I think, 335 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: as we'll discussed. But just to drive the nail into 336 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: a couple of them. Here, there's no Yeah, there's a 337 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: there's Shahrak Puja. This is a Hindu folk festival in 338 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: southern Bangladesh. And here the faithful believe that the festival 339 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: will satisfy Lord Shiva and generate prosperity through the elimination 340 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: of the previous year's sorrows and sufferings. You know. So 341 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: there's a catharsis here. So sometimes a human Shahrak as 342 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: they're called, takes part in the festivities, tied with a 343 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: hook on his back and then moved around a bar 344 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: with a long rope. And then we have Sri Lanka's 345 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: vel Hinduism festival named for the divine javelin val of 346 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: the war god Morrigan, also known as uh Kardi Kaya, 347 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: and this entails public suspension as well as with so 348 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:07,959 Speaker 1: many religious rites of pain, including those in Christianity and flatullation, etcetera. Uh, 349 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: these traditions seem rooted in religious penance and the expression 350 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: of devotion. Yeah. So, as I said earlier, this practice 351 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: has been going on for five thousand years. So if 352 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: you look at body suspension today and you go oh weird, 353 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: you know, you think about the larger human experience. This 354 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: has been going on for a long time, large far 355 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: longer than many of us can imagine. Back to UH, 356 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: there's also the Hindu festival of Tai Posam that still 357 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: happens in Southeast Asia. And one of our listeners actually 358 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: wrote into us about this a year and a half ago, 359 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: maybe for a Listener Male episode. We talked about it 360 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: and he sent us pictures of it. Um he was living. 361 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: I think he was an expatriate in Singapore, as many 362 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: of our listeners know. I went to high school in Singapore, 363 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: and UH was totally unaware of this ceremony, so when 364 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: he sent us the pictures, it was really interesting. And UH, 365 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: one of our colleagues, Ramsey and coincidentally went to the 366 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: same high school in Singapore, and I was talking to 367 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: him about this, and he went several times with his 368 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: family to the Tai Pusan festival, so he was able 369 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: to tell me a little bit more about this. I 370 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: guess the basic idea here is similar to some of 371 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: the ones that you just mentioned. Uh. It's a practice 372 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: called vel cavati where worshippers undergo what's sort of referred 373 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: to as a debt bondage to Murragon, that same war 374 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: god and val is the again the divine javelin that's 375 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: used as a weapon against against the against evil. Yeah, 376 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: so these skewers are representative of the spear or javelin 377 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: that Povarty gave Murragon to kill the demon Sura pad 378 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: Um Uh. And so what happens is actually during this festival, 379 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: the worshippers are sometimes suspended in the air with the 380 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: levels of pains correlating to their actual devotion, you know, Um, 381 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: and it's not My understanding is it's not like what 382 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: we think of his body suspension and that it's vertical. 383 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: I think they're that. I think from the pictures we 384 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: were shown, starts off on the ground and they're lifted 385 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: up by people horizontal to them. Yeah, I believe that 386 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: sounds right. Yeah, those of you out there who have 387 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: maybe partaken in this and seen it, let us know 388 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: in looking at any of these religious or semi religious 389 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 1: modes of of hook suspension. It's it. It reminds me 390 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: again of Scary's writings which she talks about pain becoming 391 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: a sort of proof, an argument that the quote act 392 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: of wounding is explicitly presented as a sign the human 393 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: body is in each the site for the analogical verification 394 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: of the existence and authority of God. And of course, 395 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: a modern suspension is often a secular affair, rooted in 396 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: traditions of personal exploration and performance art. But you still 397 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: see some aspects of this, this idea that that the 398 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: pain is there as a as a proof of something. 399 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: You know, why don't we take a quick break and 400 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: when we get back, we're going to get into the 401 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: modern suspension practices and how it's done. Thank, okay, we're back, 402 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: So One of the big sources that we use for 403 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: this episode was a fantastic article written for The Atlantic 404 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: called the Therapeutic Experience of being Suspended by your Skin. 405 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: And this is by a guy named Wyatt Marshall. Yeah, 406 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: this is a great article. Will include a link to 407 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: it on the landing page for this episode. It's stuff 408 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: to blow your mind dot com. Um. He goes through 409 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: a lot of what we're gonna be talking about here, 410 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: and he points out that the modern suspension movement traces 411 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: back to the nineteen sixties when a man by the 412 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: name of Fakir Mussafar who's born Roland Loomis, reintroduced and 413 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: adapted various forms of suspension and coined the term modern primitives, 414 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: and in his wake suspension enthusis is such as Mussafar, 415 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: protege Alan Faulkner, who already quoted, and performance artist Steelark, 416 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: who've talked about on the show before. They've continued and 417 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: others have continued to advance the culture and the public 418 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: understanding of this these of these sort of rights. Yeah, 419 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: so this isn't necessarily religious today, but people do see 420 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: it as a spiritual experience or as a way to 421 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: test themselves. Now. Fakir Mussafar was born on an Indian 422 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: reservation in South Dakota, and then he developed forms of 423 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: modern suspension based on kapa. He performed one of these 424 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty three. So so for instance, you know, 425 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: we read earlier that the last time this was was 426 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: performed was in the like late nineteenth century. I don't 427 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: think he did the full four day ceremony. I think 428 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: he just died the suspension part and he saw it 429 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: as being about self expression or spiritual exploration. And you know, 430 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: as you mentioned that, Alan Faulkner goes on and sort 431 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: of brings it out to the world at law Arge. 432 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 1: So Faulkner actually I read up on him. He's a 433 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: laser technician from Dallas, uh and he has a tattoo 434 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: removal shop. And so he met Musa far when he 435 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: dropped out of school and moved to California and he 436 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: tried to do his first suspension with a fishing line 437 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: and it ripped. So I think, like you know, they 438 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: eventually take on the practices the knowledge of the Ukapa ceremony, 439 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: which involves math and physics in one way or another, 440 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: figuring out you know what weight will bear on a 441 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: particular pulley or rope things like that. Yeah, and then 442 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: of course you have where to connect them on the body. 443 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: How you're their additional concerns to come into into play 444 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, I mean, if this isn't obvious, I 445 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: think we should put a disclaimer out there, like, don't 446 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,239 Speaker 1: just go do this to yourself, Like you want to 447 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: sit down with experts for a lot of reasons that 448 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: we'll talk about, but you don't want to just put 449 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: fishing line in your skin and hang yourself up from something. Uh. 450 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: I'm also a little confused about Musafar's origins story. I 451 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: could not, for the life of me, find more about him. 452 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,239 Speaker 1: It sounds like he was not Native American, but he 453 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: was born on this reservation and learned about the practice 454 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: and then appropriated it. So I'm kind of curious how 455 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: these local tribes feel about modern body suspension culture. Yeah. Yeah, 456 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear more about that. He of course, 457 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: is it's still alive as of this recording. Yeah, And 458 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of people that do suspension too. That's 459 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: another thing I think we should put out there to 460 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: sort of dispel the idea that this is just like 461 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: circus performers or something right like lawyers, wrestlers, doctors, acrobats 462 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: and even politicians have done this. Now, I mentioned Steve 463 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: Lark already, the Australian performance artists, and he's usualized suspension 464 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: at several different points and and continues to do so 465 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: in his exploration of sort of the trans humanist body 466 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: and the ide of our body beyond our body via technology. Uh. 467 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: And some pret actitioners also take hook suspension in a 468 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: more industrial or even erotic direction. And I think all 469 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,239 Speaker 1: this is quite understandable as well. After all, pain and 470 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: pleasure are more closely linked than we typically realize in 471 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: modern hook suspension, you know, to think industrially, it's a 472 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: union not of human and God, but of human and 473 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: medical slash industrial paraphernalia. Yeah, and all of this is 474 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: connected to previous episodes that Robert and I have done 475 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: about cyborgism, and we did an episode about body modification 476 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: engineering as well, and steel Ark came up in there. 477 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: I actually read an article for this episode that was 478 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: all about steel Arcs just sort of general project, and 479 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: showed that he really uses the suspension thing as a 480 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: way to highlight his other experiments like for instance, when 481 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: he put the ear on his armed ear, like the 482 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: suspension was a way to get people to like sit 483 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: and look at that ear for a long period of 484 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: time rather than just like you know, sit around and 485 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: do a photo shoot or something like that. And of 486 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: course he's done some other interesting perform and start bits 487 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: with like a mechanical arms, mechanical and want to say, 488 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: spider legs, uh, fascinating body of work. So there are 489 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: different types of suspension positions too. That's one thing you 490 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: should know if you're if you're thinking about this or 491 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: you're interested in it. Hooks when they're inserted into the 492 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: upper back, this is known as suicide suspension because it 493 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: looks like you you've hanged yourself. There's also a pose 494 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: called the Superman suspension, which is what it sounds like. 495 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: It it looks like you're hanging in the air as 496 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: if you're flying Superman style. Um. Now, Dallas, Texas has 497 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: an annual body suspension convention called Suscon that was founded 498 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: in two thousand and one, and this is because Alan 499 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: Faulkner is from Dallas. There's apparently also one that's in Oslo. 500 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: I was also running across pictures from one in Medadine, Columbia. Okay, okay, 501 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: uh And now Faulkner himself, and as we'll get into 502 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: when we're sort of going through this, describes even a 503 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: small suspension practice requires a crew of like two to 504 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: six people. So en don't buy the whole, you know, 505 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: if you've seen the cell, don't buy that like one person. 506 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: I guess they could, but that's not usually how this 507 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: is done. Like there, in fact, like doing it with 508 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: a community of people seems to be part of the 509 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: transcended experience. Yeah, I mean, in a sense, it has 510 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: to be witnessed to take place. So let's get into 511 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: the safety a little bit. Is it safe? Now? Now 512 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: I realize safe and safety? And it might seem weird 513 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 1: to talk about this in light of putting hooks in 514 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: your back and hanging from from the ceiling. Uh. And 515 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: you know we're talking about something that's intrinsically endorphin releasing. 516 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: But safety is a prime concern for modern enthusiasts. After all, 517 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: It's it's one thing to to pierce the skin and 518 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: hanging from specially prepared to hooks quite another to suffer 519 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: tearing or a fall. Yeah. So the basic idea here 520 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: at least as it was portrayed by one of the 521 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: I guess experts in this in that Atlantic article was 522 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: that there's two aspects for planning. There's there's medical aspect 523 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: and there's a rigging aspect. Now, the medical aspect has 524 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: to do with the insertion of the hooks, cleaning them, 525 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: the blood that comes out, cleaning up that blood, and 526 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: then of course maintaining the skin. Rigging, Uh, they use 527 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: methods that are borrowed from construction, rock climbing and stage rigs. 528 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: For example, you need to know what a ceiling is 529 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: made of before you rig something up, and what's above 530 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: that ceiling because you need to know how much stress 531 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: is already being placed upon that single fracture point. And 532 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: also to easily hoist a human body, you have to 533 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: make use of the mechanical advantage that you get through 534 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: pulley systems. Right. So there's a certain amount of engineering 535 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: that's required here. Uh. And like we said earlier, math 536 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: and physics. Although the guy in that Atlantic article was like, yeah, 537 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: I basically do all the math in my head. That 538 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: scared me a little. Now in that article by Whyatt Marshall, Uh, 539 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: he talks to a pair of physicians, and they testify 540 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: to an important basic fact of human anatomy here, and 541 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: one that I think comes up when when any of 542 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: us look at hook suspension, especially in light of say 543 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: the hell Raiser movies, where the Silent Hill movies, uh, 544 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: you know, both of which I can think of moments 545 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: where an individual skin skin is cleanly ripped off and 546 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: like the blinking of an eye, and in a reality 547 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: outside of the Hell Raiser in Silent Hill universe is, 548 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: unless they're shared universe, maybe they are some Hollywood executive 549 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: just heard that it is like running to the bank. Well, 550 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: in reality, our hides are incredibly durable. Uh. If skin 551 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: tearing begins to occur, it's a gradual process and quote 552 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: almost never the sort of dramatic freefall that someone watching 553 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: a suspension for the first time might imagine. So it's infection, 554 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: not accidental flaying that poses the greatest health risk. And 555 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: that's where the importance of sterilized hooks, needles, and gods 556 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: comes into play. And of course, to your point on 557 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: rigging though, that, if course, is another huge area of 558 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: concern and and and generally so much care is put 559 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: into that that it's not going to be an issue. 560 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: But obviously if you're thirty ft fifty feet off of 561 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: the ground, off of a concrete floor, the potential for 562 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: injury there is great if care it's not taken in 563 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: the rigging which you did read about an example of that. 564 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: But for the most part, people don't just rip and 565 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: free fall in these things. Uh. It may look like 566 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: it's about to rip, but like Robert said, skin is 567 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: pretty strong. Think of leather, you know, and and all 568 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: the products that we use leather in and the amount 569 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: of tension that it can sustain. So there's an aspect 570 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: of physics to where you place the hooks and how 571 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: big the actual hooks are to this whole practice, as 572 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: much as there is with rigging. Now tearing is actually 573 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: more likely on your knees and on your chest, but 574 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: usually there's more than enough time to begin lowering a 575 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: person if tearing starts to happen, like the crew of 576 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: people will start seeing it before it just rips, and 577 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: they will say, hey, you know, it looks like you're 578 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: starting to rip a little bit here. Do you want 579 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: me to lower you or do you want to keep going? Uh. 580 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:15,959 Speaker 1: Now falls are usually do actually to improper insertion of hooks. 581 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: And any high degree of motion that happens when you're 582 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: up there. So it's not necessarily about the skin as 583 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: much as it is about again the science the physics 584 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: of where things are placed and how you're moving. Many 585 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: of the people who offer this service to they seem 586 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: to be trained in medical emergencies and first aid care. 587 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: A lot of the people that were interviewed for that 588 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: Atlantic piece where like nurses or paramedics. Uh, and they 589 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: will consult your doctor if you have a medical condition 590 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: that you're concerned about before doing this. Like Robert said, 591 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: infection is a huge risk as well, but also nerve 592 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: and tendon damage tend to be things that can happen 593 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: if you have improper hook placement. So again, hook placement 594 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: is huge on this. It's not like you just take 595 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: a hook and just put it anywhere you please, you know. Yeah. 596 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: I also read that while scarring, you know, inevitable is 597 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: going to occur to some um some level, it's not 598 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 1: quite as bad as one might expect expect, you know, 599 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: but yeah, they were talking about um one of the 600 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: guys had a tattoo and there was like a little 601 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: bit of white flesh where where he had been scarred. 602 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: From doing it previously, But the writer said I wouldn't 603 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: have noticed otherwise if he hadn't pointed it out to me. 604 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: There's also something and I could not find a lot 605 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: more about this, called suspension shock syndrome. And this apparently 606 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: happens if you hang vertically for too long. So I 607 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: guess that's if you're in the suicide suspension pose. Um, 608 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,959 Speaker 1: there's there's something related to that that I guess put 609 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: your body into shock. Okay, like blood flow? I think probably. Yeah. 610 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: Now there's a there's another article out there. There's pretty 611 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: good two Guardian article titled body suspension Why would anyone 612 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: hang from hooks for fun? Uh? The article is better 613 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: than the headline on that one, but it provides an 614 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: even handed discussion of the health issues involved in health 615 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: concerns and in the article Emergency Medical Technicians, Scott Dubor 616 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: points out that hook suspension is not something that you 617 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: have a lot of medical journal articles about, you know, 618 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: it hasn't received that much serious attention in these circles. 619 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: Uh So, so we don't have like perfect data on 620 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: on how to handle all of this. But he says 621 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: that again, experienced practitioners taken individual's health history, you know, 622 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:28,439 Speaker 1: very seriously when considering a suspension event, I can see 623 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: why it's not right, Like, especially in the world of 624 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 1: publisher perish, if you're sending out articles to peer reviewed journals, 625 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: they might frown at something that's about body suspension. On 626 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: the other hand, this seems like it has really big 627 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: potential for just the broader human knowledge about like what 628 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: our bodies can take and what they can't, and just 629 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: general like physics of lifting things. Plus I totally read 630 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: that journal article. If we had been able to access 631 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: something like this for this episode, I would have been thrilled. 632 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: So if anybody out there is researching the physics or 633 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: the the health issues related to hook suspension, let us know. 634 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: We'd love to take a peek of that research. Alright. 635 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: So that leaves us with the next and final question, 636 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: what does an individual feel in a hook suspension? What's 637 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: going on with pain and pleasure? Yeah, I'm so back 638 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: to our previous examples, which many listeners are probably going, 639 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: you guys don't know pain. Pain. You don't know the 640 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: meaning of the word, you know, like uh, me putting 641 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: the wrong sailine in my eye and Robert taking out 642 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: an and grown tonail is probably nothing compared to this, right, 643 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's a purpose to this 644 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: that in you know, involves sort of again transcending becoming 645 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 1: something else. All Right, we're gonna take a quick break 646 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: and when we come back, we will jump right into 647 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 1: this area. All right, we're back, you know. I I 648 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: what you just said prior to our break made me 649 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: think of hell Razor again because you kind of did 650 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: a pinhead voice there that was my not not a 651 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: very good piure, But it does remind me that in 652 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: the especially in the first hell Raiser movie and definitely 653 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: in Clive Barker's original The hell Bound Heart, it's less 654 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: about pain and more that these uh, the Centobytes are 655 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: are you know since uh Cincinnats, I guess, and they 656 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: have been just exploring the limits of human sensation in 657 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: ways that go beyond pleasure or pain. And I always 658 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: found that that the better read it becomes more about 659 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: pain and just sort of torturous demons as monsters that 660 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: are one. But early on it's like, like the the Centobytes, 661 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: you can't really say they're evil because they're not. It's 662 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: not like they want to hurt somebody. It's just that 663 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: they're understanding of mortal sensation is so far beyond anything 664 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: that a human could could understand. This is a brief aside, 665 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: but I think a lot of people forget that about 666 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: the original Hell Raiser, that Pinhead and the Centobytes aren't 667 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: really like the villains per se, and that they're the 668 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: villain is like it was his name, Uncle Frank, the 669 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: guy who who's like skinless and growing up in the attic. 670 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: Like you know that that's a movie that actually has 671 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: some really interesting themes because of Barker, uh, specifically about pain, 672 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: pleasure and just like the human experience, which I think 673 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: is what makes it such a classic. Yeah. I mean, 674 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: the cinembytes are essentially just a very inhuman bureaucratic organization. 675 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: It gets wound up in a in a in a 676 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: family dispute. Yeah, it gets bad when they start like 677 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: putting CD players inside their faces and stuff like that. Yeah, 678 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: But by the third Hell Raiser it's gone an entirely 679 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,720 Speaker 1: different direction. All right. But but back to the real 680 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 1: world of hook suspension. So it is h it is 681 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: again a consensual exercise. If we haven't been clear on that, 682 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: Let me just drive at home no matter what you 683 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,280 Speaker 1: saw in the cell. Uh, it's, it's it's It's definitely 684 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: a choice that one makes, and it's far from an 685 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 1: impulsive activity. So matters of health and physics are carefully calculate, 686 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: calculated for the purely physical aspects of the event. But 687 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: then on top of that, the participant is gonna be 688 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: weighing in on the inner complexities of the experience. So 689 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:09,240 Speaker 1: anticipation priming, uh, it all accentuates the already complex interplay 690 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: of nerve response in psychology, It's like anything, you're building 691 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: up your anticipation for it. You have certain expectations that 692 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,760 Speaker 1: are going to be met or aren't going to be met, 693 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: and also expectations and understandings of what's going to take 694 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,399 Speaker 1: place that they're going to color your experience and then 695 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: how you reflect on that experience. Yeah, and you can 696 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: see how that played into ceremonial practices, right. There was 697 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: build up before the ceremony. There's the act of it itself, 698 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: there's the communal aspect, and then there's sort of like 699 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 1: the calm down of your you're lowered in your you're 700 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: still around your community, right, like you're around like a 701 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: supportive group of people. Um, and then the actual like 702 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 1: hanging part, the feeling of shock that's involved in that. 703 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: We got all kinds of chemicals involved there, right, there's endorphins, serotonin, etcetera. 704 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: And those are obviously producing a sort of high like 705 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: we talked about. But again, I think the key to 706 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,320 Speaker 1: this seems to be about being part of a group. 707 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd love to hear from people out 708 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: there who have different experiences, but it seems to me like, 709 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: I guess you could just like rig yourself up in 710 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: a closet or something like that. Have to be a 711 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: big closet, but uh, and you would get something out 712 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: of it, but I don't think it would be the 713 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: same as what you're getting when you're like you're working 714 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: together with people, they're thinking about your well being and 715 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: it's it's all about you sort of clearing your mind. Yeah, 716 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: And on the communal aspect here, it's also to keep 717 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: in mind that this applies to not only the individual 718 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: that's suspended, but those who are facilitating it in those 719 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: who are observing it. This ties in with a Neil 720 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: Durkheim's collective effervescence theory, and this is the idea that 721 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 1: a communal ritual generates a kind of shared electricity. Uh. 722 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 1: It makes me think of like, I mean, this is 723 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: why I like going to yoga class more than I 724 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: like doing yoga home. I do yoga at home, and 725 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: I it feels good and I'm able to kind of 726 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: like work the kinks out. But when I go to class, 727 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: it's a communal thing. I'm out, I'm in public. I'm 728 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: not a particularly like social person to begin with, so 729 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: this is a good experience to get me out and 730 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: like engaging with other people. I went to a really 731 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: crowded yoga class at a local um Asheram recently and uh, 732 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: and at first I was like, oh, I'm I got 733 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: a way over my head and this way too crowded. 734 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: I'm just packed in like sardines with everyone. But then 735 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: it was a a good yoga class, and then be 736 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 1: there was something about being there was so many people 737 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: that we it was a very communal experience. I felt 738 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: like I was in that movie Society where I'll just 739 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: kind of like moving together. Yeah, I've had that to 740 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: My local UM studio does classes on holidays like on 741 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving and New Year's Day, and there jam packed when 742 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: they do them on those holidays. So you're like, I 743 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: think you've you've got enough room for maybe like forty 744 00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: or fifty people in this room, and you're just literally 745 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: need a knee, like you know, full on doing like 746 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: some pretty difficult poses. Although there's not a lot of 747 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: inversions in a class like right. And of course this 748 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 1: kind of scenario applies to any kind of communal, secular, 749 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 1: or religious event that's taken place in a certain amount 750 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: of ritual to it. But as part of the human 751 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: experience just in general, you know, I mean, like I 752 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: would imagine that, like there is the same sort of 753 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: just general good feeling that comes out of going to 754 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: church on Sunday morning that you and I get out 755 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: of going to a yoga class or somebody else gets 756 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: out of body suspension. Yeah, and but you have this 757 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: added level of physical exertion that is involved here. And 758 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 1: and this can actually play into one's connection to a group. 759 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: Having having completed a suspension, one may feel more connected 760 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,320 Speaker 1: with the group for having experienced a painful ride of passage. 761 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: This is a process that was actually explored in in 762 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: a nineteen nine United States Army psychology study, not really suspension, 763 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,240 Speaker 1: but just as far as pain and how it a 764 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 1: relates to your experience as being part of a group. 765 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: Psychologist Elliott Aronsen of Stanford and Judson Mills. They used 766 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: electric shocks and found that individuals who received severe electric 767 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: shocks before entering a group value their membership more than 768 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: those who received mild shocks. It's almost kind of a 769 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: hazing scenario. But this is another like part of like 770 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: it reminds me of like the classic Milgram study too. 771 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: It's like that period of time what Milgram was earlier 772 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: than I believe, but you know that idea that like 773 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,799 Speaker 1: you could get away was something then, you know. All right, 774 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: So let's come back to just pain itself for a 775 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: little bit. I know that we've talked about the communal 776 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,800 Speaker 1: aspects here obviously, as as we've discussed. Pain itself is 777 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,919 Speaker 1: kind of hard to tag down, you know. Um, it's 778 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: a it's a very distressing feeling that involves regions of 779 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 1: the brain that are also associated associated with the enjoyment 780 00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,959 Speaker 1: of food, drugs, and sex. So you have some shared 781 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,399 Speaker 1: pathways there for sure. And uh, and then what else 782 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 1: is going on? Well, let's look at a few a 783 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: few tidbits here. So a two thousand six University of 784 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 1: Michigan study revealed that the brain's dopamine system is highly 785 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: active while someone experiences pain, and that this response varies 786 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: between individuals in a way that relates directly to how 787 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: the pain makes them feel. And when spiritual or secular 788 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,799 Speaker 1: ritual is involved, the ritual in and of itself can 789 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,800 Speaker 1: arouse the participant and trigger hormones that stimulate the reward 790 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 1: systems of the brain. And this, according to anthropologists Dmitries Zagalates, 791 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,959 Speaker 1: can cause sensations such as pain or fear to transform 792 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: into pleasurable experiences through a dopamine spike uh so, an 793 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: increase in the New York peptides that we call endorphins. 794 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: Uh This binds to the brains opiate receptors, producing the 795 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,800 Speaker 1: same soothing euphoria that is felt to a certain extent 796 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: by marathon runners during a runner's high. So this is 797 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:04,160 Speaker 1: base sickly the same thing. Well, I'm I'm really generalizing here, 798 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: but the same effect that we get when we take 799 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 1: various kinds of drugs, whether they're legal or illegal. Right Like, 800 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: they're influencing the amount of certain chemicals and proteins in 801 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,919 Speaker 1: our system that makes us feel a certain way. There's 802 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 1: something about this. That seems better to me than just 803 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 1: like popping a pill in that like, again, you're engaging 804 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: in the human activity of community. Yeah, well, and I 805 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 1: definitely agree that. One of the things to keep in 806 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,320 Speaker 1: mind here is that someone who's engaging in hook suspension 807 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 1: does not have an alien biology or an alien psychology. 808 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,800 Speaker 1: It's like they have the same their their body and 809 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 1: their experience is the same mix of chemicals, that the 810 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: same biomachinery. They're just interacting with it in a way 811 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: that you were not. But they're not producing feelings that 812 00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,399 Speaker 1: are necessarily like like that different than something you've experienced, right, Yeah, which, 813 00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,399 Speaker 1: god man, the more we talk about this, the more 814 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: the cel but comes ridiculous. I mean that movie was 815 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: silly already, but like when you think about it, that 816 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,800 Speaker 1: like the premise where it's like, oh, somebody who's into 817 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: this body suspension practice, of course they would be a 818 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,360 Speaker 1: serial killer, you know, like it's just it's poor writing, Hollywood. 819 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: Come on, now, remember we talked about priming earlier. What's 820 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,440 Speaker 1: going on in your mind is you're preparing to to 821 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 1: go into this what people were telling you, what you're expecting. Well, 822 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 1: many descriptions of first time hook suspensions. They speak to 823 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,799 Speaker 1: this anticipation of extreme sensation, and according to a two 824 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: thousand thirteen study from the University of Oslo, pain that 825 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,760 Speaker 1: hits less severely than expected may give us a rush 826 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: of release or even something like pleasure on top of 827 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: the endorphins. You know, what this made me think of 828 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: is just and I think almost everybody can identify with this, 829 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 1: going to the doctor and getting a shot or getting 830 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: your blood drawn. Like for me, like I go and 831 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,879 Speaker 1: I just go, okay, Like I anticipate that the pain 832 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 1: is going to come. I prepare my mind for it. 833 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,239 Speaker 1: The needle is inserted, my blood is being drawn, and uh, 834 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,959 Speaker 1: you know, after like two or three seconds, I'm don't 835 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,319 Speaker 1: don't feel it anymore other than the blood draining out 836 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,920 Speaker 1: of my body. You know. Uh. That's I think, like 837 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:17,240 Speaker 1: a relatable thing that most people can think of, similar 838 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,319 Speaker 1: to body suspension, just on a like micro level. Indeed. Yeah, 839 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: and you know, on top of that too, we we 840 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 1: talked about transcendence and sort of altered states with individuals 841 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,279 Speaker 1: that are undergoing a hook suspension, and there's a there's 842 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,319 Speaker 1: an interesting study that lines up with that as well. 843 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: A two thousand fourteen study from Northern Illinois University, and 844 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,360 Speaker 1: they linked various like B D S, M, S and 845 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,880 Speaker 1: M type activities to altered states of mind in keeping 846 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,239 Speaker 1: with those achieved through yoga or meditation. So basically what 847 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 1: happened here was the researchers administered to cognitive test to 848 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,440 Speaker 1: S and M participants following a A A switching scene, 849 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,360 Speaker 1: and based on the findings, they suspect that pain altered 850 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,320 Speaker 1: blood flow in the brain, particularly to the dorso lateral 851 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,680 Speaker 1: prefrontal cortex, which plays into our ability to distinguish self 852 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,359 Speaker 1: from other. Yeah, so this is where you get into 853 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,919 Speaker 1: things that are like a little bit more dangerous like cutting. Yeah. 854 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: But but also it's where we can easily see some 855 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 1: of the science behind the idea that someone could suspend 856 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 1: from hooks totally have have this physical pain experience and 857 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 1: lose some sense of themselves, to have this this experience 858 00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,080 Speaker 1: of of lifting, of flying above their worries and concerns 859 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,360 Speaker 1: and their anxieties and their baggage and and finding this 860 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,240 Speaker 1: place of release. And in fact, I found a quote 861 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,880 Speaker 1: from Alan Faulkner, who's talked about here, and he said, quote, 862 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 1: if life had a dial to adjust the volume, suspension 863 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 1: has a way of accessing this invisible knob and turning 864 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,360 Speaker 1: it down again, like totally in line with my experience 865 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: of both yoga and uh uh, sensory deprivation takes like 866 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,360 Speaker 1: it's just it takes for for me, like I I 867 00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,520 Speaker 1: have a a particularly sensitive of nervous system, right, Like 868 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,399 Speaker 1: I take in a lot of sensory information, I think 869 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,959 Speaker 1: more than most people. But again it's hard to tell 870 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,560 Speaker 1: when I do yoga or when I'm laying in the 871 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,799 Speaker 1: float tank or whatever. Again, that's a perfect metaphor just 872 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 1: turning the volume down just it calms everything down. It's nice. Yeah, 873 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 1: So that's yeah, that's basically what's happen going on with 874 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:25,319 Speaker 1: hook suspension here. So obviously we again we're not saying 875 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,560 Speaker 1: go try this. We are not. We're certainly saying not 876 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,160 Speaker 1: trying to tell you to go try it yourself on 877 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,040 Speaker 1: your own. But hopefully what we've done here is we've 878 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,320 Speaker 1: been able to take something that is that is often 879 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,839 Speaker 1: seen is just this outsider weirdo thing and putting it 880 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: framing it in a way that lines up with with 881 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 1: with more relatable modes of human experience. Yeah, so I 882 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: would love to hear from you the audience, if you 883 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: have experienced with this. Obviously we've heard from a couple 884 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 1: of you already, but uh, please tell us what we 885 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 1: got right and maybe what we got wrong about this. 886 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,239 Speaker 1: Also let us know about your own experience it is 887 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: with it, or maybe you've witnessed one of these ceremonies 888 00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,840 Speaker 1: that we talked about. Uh, it's It's a fascinating line 889 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 1: of inquiry and I'm curious to see where it goes next, 890 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: especially like we were mentioning, if academics actually get involved 891 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 1: and start doing research studies on it. Indeed, and you know, 892 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 1: I think get involved in ways that are not just 893 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: simply becoming cinabytes that we had it was it Dr Kleinard. 894 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,719 Speaker 1: I believe in the second movie he's the oh yeah, yeah, 895 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,000 Speaker 1: British doctor who ends up getting turned into this crazy 896 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,279 Speaker 1: cinebyte with a big worm attached to This is true. Yeah, 897 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,880 Speaker 1: I thought for a minute you're going to reference the 898 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,799 Speaker 1: monster science episode that you did on centobytes. Oh yes, yes, 899 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:39,799 Speaker 1: we did do one on sinovites. It actually touches on 900 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,960 Speaker 1: some of the some of the pain related details that 901 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,120 Speaker 1: that we covered here. So this is a link to that. 902 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,600 Speaker 1: This is a good segue to our website stuff to 903 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,280 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com, where all of our videos 904 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,120 Speaker 1: are at, along with all of our podcasts. So if 905 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 1: you've never seen Monster Science before you want to see 906 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,839 Speaker 1: this particular one, you're in for a treat. Go look 907 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 1: at it on stuff to Blow your Mind and dot com. 908 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,239 Speaker 1: There's also a blog post galore. In fact, Robert just 909 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,279 Speaker 1: posted a pretty lengthy I wouldn't even call it a 910 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,560 Speaker 1: blog post. You did a full on article about this 911 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,640 Speaker 1: topic on our site. Uh. We've also got links up 912 00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:16,480 Speaker 1: to our social media accounts Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, and Instagram. Yeah, 913 00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,279 Speaker 1: and I think there's a YouTube button on there too, 914 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,240 Speaker 1: because we're doing this Facebook series these days called Trailer Talk, 915 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,600 Speaker 1: where we we we spin off from these podcast episodes 916 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: we look at some movie trailers talk about sometimes be 917 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,720 Speaker 1: a lot of times it's be movies or other horror 918 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,520 Speaker 1: sci fi genre films and how they tie into the 919 00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 1: topics of the week. And I'm not sure there's I 920 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,400 Speaker 1: think there's a strong chance we'll have something tied in 921 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,880 Speaker 1: with these episodes. We'll see how it comes together. I 922 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: think so a lot of movie just came up in 923 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,200 Speaker 1: this episode. So yeah, I mean so I would expect 924 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,240 Speaker 1: this let's see if this episode publishes the week after 925 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,200 Speaker 1: recording it, then a couple of days later. They're usually 926 00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: on Fridays when we do these Facebook lives, and they 927 00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,680 Speaker 1: then are both on our Facebook page for watching and 928 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,719 Speaker 1: on YouTube. Yeah, you can find archives on YouTube for sure. 929 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:03,520 Speaker 1: And if you want to get in touch with us 930 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,720 Speaker 1: the old fashioned way, we'll just send us an email 931 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:19,080 Speaker 1: at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com 932 00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,520 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 933 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: that how stuff works dot com