1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: M h. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, 2 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all 3 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: information or to find a therapist in your area, visit 7 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, 9 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so 11 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: much for joining me for session one nine nine of 12 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: the Therapy a Black Girls Podcast. We'll dive into the 13 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: episode right after a word from our sponsors. Setting and 14 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: maintaining boundaries is something we revisit often here at Therapy 15 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: for Black Girls because I think for many of us 16 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: there's always more work to be done in this area. 17 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: And who better to join us with this conversation than 18 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: the woman who has literally written the book about boundaries. 19 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: Nedra Glover to Wabndra is a licensed therapist and sought 20 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: after relationship expert and has practiced relationship therapy for twelve years. 21 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: She's the founder and owner of the group therapy practice 22 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: Kaleidoscope Counseling, and the author of Set Boundaries, Find Peace, 23 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself. Nedra and I chatted about 24 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: the six different types of boundaries, the differences between codependency 25 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: and counter dependency, what it looks like to set boundaries 26 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: in digital spaces, and she shared some reflection questions to 27 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: help you get in touch with the boundaries you may 28 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: need to set. If there's something that resonates with you 29 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social 30 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: media using the hashtag tbg in session. Here's our conversation. 31 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: So we're so excited to have you back today, Nidro. 32 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: I am so so excited to be here. Yes, congratulations, 33 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: Happy book release week. I am sure there's tons going 34 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: on for you right now. Yes, it's such a fun 35 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: time been So you have visited with us before, talking 36 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: all about boundaries and codependency when you first came, and 37 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: we of course talked a lot about boundaries on the podcast. 38 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: Because in the book you talk about six different types 39 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: of boundaries, Can you tell us what they are? Yes? So, 40 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: in the book I talk about six types of boundaries. 41 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: And the first type of boundaries is physical boundaries, and 42 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: this has to do with your personal space, your physical touch, 43 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: and violations for that might look like physical abuse, or 44 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: we're in the grocery store and someone is sending too 45 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: close to you. The second type is sexual, and that 46 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: is touching someone's body or commenting, and of course for 47 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: that violations the number one is a sought abuse, molestation, 48 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: and inappropriate jokes about other folks body. Number three is intellectual, 49 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: and that is your thoughts and ideas, and those boundaries 50 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: are being violated when we are ridiculing other people for 51 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: having views or opinions that aren't unsafe, but just something 52 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: that we don't agree with. Number four would be your 53 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: sharing of your feelings. So when we're in relationships with people, 54 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: it's important that they hear us, that they understand us, 55 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: and we share a lot emotionally with other people, and 56 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: so violating someone's emotional boundary it looked like invalidating their feelings, 57 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: telling them that what they're saying doesn't matter, or minimizing 58 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: what their saying. Material boundaries, that's your possession. So I 59 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: remember one time in college I let someone borrow my 60 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: flatirons and they returned them back and the little plate 61 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 1: was broke, right, Like, they violated, They violated my boundary, 62 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: and they had the nerve to say that's so using 63 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,239 Speaker 1: someone's things and you know, tearing it up or taking 64 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: things without permission, those are all violations of someone's material boundaries. 65 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: And then the last one, which I think is the biggest, 66 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: that's time boundaries, and that's where we manage our time. 67 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: It's about how other people try to manage our time. 68 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: And the really big violation that we have there is 69 00:04:55,200 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: not practicing self care or over committing ourselves, or even 70 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: asking other people to do things when we know that 71 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: they may not have the capacity to do it. Those 72 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: are ways that we violate other people's times, but mostly 73 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: with the time boundary is typically us doing it to ourselves. 74 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. And you mentioned that that is a big violation. 75 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: So in the book you make the distinction between little 76 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,119 Speaker 1: B versus big B violations. Can you talk more about 77 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,679 Speaker 1: the differences between the two. How can people identify those? Yeah? 78 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: So BOOKBI is like the everyday little things that sort 79 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: of popping that don't penetrate your spirit. It's just like, 80 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I was talking to someone and they 81 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: just told me a bunch of information that I wasn't 82 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: ready for, right, So that happens occasionally. So it's like 83 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: this this little micro violation. The big bees are the 84 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: things that have eroded the relationships. So codependency, en meashment, 85 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: long term history of one sided relationships, those are those 86 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: really big boundary violations and not requires a deeper level 87 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: of work because we have to do more to repair 88 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: the boundary issues in those relationships with a little be 89 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: If it's something like you know, your coworker has asked 90 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: for your help on a project. You told them no, 91 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: and they asked again. You know, it's like it's not 92 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: a deep offense, but it might be something worth addressing 93 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: to make sure that the boundary is not continuing to 94 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: be violated after you say no. But when we have 95 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: those long histories with folks of them violating boundaries, it's 96 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: a really big violation. Yeah, and you mentioned I think 97 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: you said in meshment and codependence, And I would just 98 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: love for us to be able to have a conversation 99 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: about what these topics are because I feel like these 100 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: are things sometimes people talk about like either on social media. 101 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: You will see it in an article, but we don't 102 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: always have a good understanding of like what they are 103 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: and how each is different from the other. You identify 104 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: four types of big B boundary violations. Can you talk 105 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: more in depth about each of those. Yes, So let's 106 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: talk about codependency because I'm a content creator. I create 107 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff on Instagram, and I do feel 108 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: like codependency is a super buzz word and we apply 109 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: it to oh my gosh, you're codependent, but really, you know, 110 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: we're supposed to be in relationships with people and help 111 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: them at times and receive help from them. That behavior 112 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: is not codependent. The relationship is codependent mostly when it 113 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: is one sided. This person typically has some issues that 114 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: that are unhealthy for them, and we're supporting them and 115 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: continuing with these unhealthy issues. So for codependency, lots of 116 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: times when we're codependent, we are not allowing people to 117 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: sort of fix and work through some of the challenges 118 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: that they can on their own. Have you seen like 119 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: the reshaping of codependency on social media? Dr Joy? Oh? 120 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. I mean, and like you mentioned, people throw 121 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: it around. It feels like very casually and don't really 122 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: know like the intricacies of it. Yes, I think codependency 123 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: is becoming the new pomegranate. Like it's just it's just 124 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: like it's the cucumber melon of mental health right now, 125 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, they're codependent, and it's like, yeah, 126 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: sometimes they are, but sometimes it is also a situation 127 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: where things could be healthy or not. Codependency is a 128 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 1: really big one. I'm a bonding and that's when we 129 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: start to make excuses for people mistreating us. That typically 130 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: comes from childhood's where we've experienced some sort of unhealthy 131 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: dynamic and relationships and we start to believe it's my fault. 132 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: I must have done something to contribute to this in 133 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: some a And so when we get into our adult 134 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: relationships and we have partners and we have friends, and 135 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: all of these people who may be legitimately doing something 136 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: to us, we kind of give them a pass, you know, 137 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: when they have a bad day, you know, you just 138 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: you can't talk to them. That's what they yelled at me. 139 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: You know, all of that sort of stuff of becoming 140 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: a part of the abusive cycle. And so it's really 141 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: important to acknowledge when you're being mistreated by someone and 142 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: not to allow that to be your fault. Another really 143 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: big one is a meshment, and there is a big like, 144 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, what's the difference between enmeshment and the 145 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: difference between codependency, So a meshment, we typically we don't 146 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: know the difference between what we feel and what someone 147 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: else is feeling. We hear this a lot when it's 148 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: like I just I just take on everything, and everything 149 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: becomes our problem for other people, and we have to 150 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: allow people to abuild city to manage their lives. You know, 151 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: it's kind of like parenting, like you always want to 152 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: help your kid, but as they get a little bit older, 153 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: they want a little more freedom. And most adults are 154 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: like that, like they can do sometimes more than what 155 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: we're allowing them to do. You talked about in meshment 156 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: when you gave the definition, it sounds like this other 157 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: word that I hear people throwing around quite a lot. 158 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: In terms of being an impact, there are some people 159 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: who are naturally like attuned to people feelings and and 160 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: you know, a little more drained by them. But it's 161 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: very important to have boundaries and to have the separation 162 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: between how I feel and how someone else is feeling. 163 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: And if we're not able to do that. Yeah, that 164 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: that could be very you know, empathetic of us, but 165 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: it's also harmful to us because we're not able to 166 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: operate in these relationships in a healthy way without feeling 167 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: like this is something I have to do. So when 168 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: PO identify as impacts, I think it's a healthy term. 169 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: I think the challenge is even within that, how do 170 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: we create boundaries around the behaviors of taking on other 171 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: people's feelings. And so I'm always careful with my client 172 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: to not establish that as like a identity that limits 173 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: them from saying I can't do this for you because 174 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: they feel like, well, that's just the part of who 175 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: I am. And it's like, yeah, but you know, it 176 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: seems like you're not in a position to help this 177 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: person if you have the resources, and that's fine. So 178 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: we have to be very careful with using that term 179 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 1: and not applying it to I can't have any boundaries 180 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: because this is who I am. Now, you can be 181 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: a very empathetic person and still have boundaries, you know. 182 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: Nedraw as we're talking, I am aware that it feels 183 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: like we are doing some like education in terms of 184 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: these terms that people often see on social media, and 185 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: and I think that there's a real excitement, right, Like 186 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: I think people really want to know about themselves, they 187 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: want to understand their reactions to certain things, right, And 188 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: so I think that there's you know, just real excitement 189 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: around like learning some of these things. But I do think, 190 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: like you're saying, we have to be careful not to 191 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: like take on some of these terms as identities or 192 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: make it feel as if it's fixed and there's nothing 193 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: we can do about it, right, because most often there 194 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: are things that you can do about it. M hmmm, yeah, 195 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: Like you're not powerless over being codependent, you're not powerless 196 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: over being an impath, and so you have to remember 197 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: that there are still things you could do. Is it 198 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: going to be challenging. Absolutely, it's going to be challenging, 199 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: But you certainly can start to develop some limitations with 200 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: yourself with other people and not have those relationships so 201 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: blended and unhealthy that like it's very that way with 202 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: mental health terms too. You know a lot of times 203 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: I tell people their diagnosis, like as we're starting, we 204 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: have to do maybe some paperwork or something. But every 205 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: single session, I'm not banging up the B word of bipolar. 206 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: I'm not bringing up the d word of depression because 207 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: it's just a set of behaviors, and so what we're 208 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: working on is really treating behaviors. So we don't have 209 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: to create this identity around the diagnosis. We just want 210 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: to help you in these areas where you want help. 211 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: So the term of what's happening, it's relevant, but it's 212 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: not essential to you getting some change behaviors and resources. Yeah, 213 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: so you were about to dive into counter dependency. So 214 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: this is a newer one that I don't know that 215 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: we talked very often about. So what is counter dependency? Well, 216 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: counter dependency I liken it to being the strong one 217 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: mm hmmm, because so often with being the strong one 218 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: that has come from learning that people cannot be there 219 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: for you. And so you start to take on this 220 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: identity of you know, counter dependency. Other people can't help me, 221 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: You start to be uncomfortable being vulnerable with people. You 222 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: may start to not be able to accept help. One 223 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: of the exercises that I have my clients do that 224 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: are counter dependent is the silliest thing. And they'd be like, 225 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: why do I have to do this? But I say, 226 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: when you go to the grocery store and they say, 227 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: do you want me to help you to your car, 228 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: Say yes, yes, it's they whold job to help you. 229 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: But we get so in the mode of no I 230 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: could do everything myself, that we have to start very 231 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: small and saying yes I need help, please come over here. 232 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: When it's your birthday, just signed to people like you know, 233 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: I'm celebrating my birthday this year, I'm accepting gifts. So 234 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: really putting yourself out there to not have people buy 235 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: into this idea that you don't need them and you're 236 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: strong one, and reshapeing a lot of our conversations because 237 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: sometimes people believe that because we are demonstrating that we 238 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: don't need people, and sometimes they're demonstrating that because we're 239 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: not letting them in. And so we have to be 240 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: very clear that we all need people. Everyone needs people, 241 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: even a strong one, we need people. And so that 242 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: counter dependency, the boundary issues. They are usually rigid. There 243 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: are so many walls built to keep people out, to 244 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: keep you safe and not needing them, and it's just 245 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: not a healthy way to function. More from my conversation 246 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: with Nidra right after the break, Nidra, is there a 247 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: difference or any subtleties towards when someone might develop a 248 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: strategy of being codependent versus counterdependent. M P say, so, 249 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: when we look at dysfunctional families, there are certainly some 250 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: people in the family who are more comfortable being like 251 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: everyone else in the family, and then there are people 252 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: who are cycle breakers, who are like, I don't want 253 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: this thing. And I think sometimes when a person is 254 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: a cycle breaker, or they are stepping away from a 255 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: system of something, it is easier to maybe develop I 256 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: don't need people, but you have to step away and 257 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: still need people now. It may not be the system 258 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: of support in your family, but it could be a 259 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: system of support outside your family or a few people 260 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: from your family. It really depends. But I think sometimes 261 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: when you are becoming different than everyone else, it's kind 262 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: of like that black sheep. You start to develop this 263 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: identity of I have to do everything by myself and 264 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: really starting to minimize the need of support from other people, 265 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: which is an important step in being a how the 266 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: person we need other people? Mm hmmm, yeah, And I 267 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: can imagine that there are some people enjoying our conversation 268 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: right now who are like just kind of shaking at 269 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: the idea of having to ask for help, right and 270 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: we know how often this does show up for black 271 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: women specifically, right, Like, this identity of the strong one, 272 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: whether they're that is something we claim ourselves or something 273 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: other people put on us. It is very much a 274 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: narrative that is kind of, you know, prevalent among black women. 275 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: So you've already offered the idea of like letting people 276 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: help at the grocery shore, or you know, probably sharing 277 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: that's your birthday and your accepting guilts. Are there other 278 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: things that people who struggle with asking for help could 279 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: practice doing? Mmm. I's going to write people is the 280 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: biggest thing, because sometimes we developed this mindset that nobody 281 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: will help us. But that nobody we're talking about are 282 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: two people who won't help you, and they've consistently not 283 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: help you. Meanwhile, you have a hundred and fifty two 284 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: people in your life. But relying on those two people 285 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: who have even that they cannot do it will make 286 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: you think like nobody will do it, And it's typically 287 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: not nobody. But we have to figure out who can 288 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: help us, who is willing to help us, And sometimes 289 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 1: that's stepping away from the people that you think should 290 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: be helping you and moving towards some of these other 291 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: people who are more capable, because it might not be everybody, 292 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: but we have to set ourselves up for success. And 293 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: so if we go to you know, a few people 294 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: and they're consistently unavailable, perhaps just thinking of other people 295 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: and not stopping there and saying, you know, there's no 296 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: one to help me, it's not those people. So what 297 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: other people can you find to have supportive relationships with? Yeah, 298 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 1: and I think that that's important to explore because I 299 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: wonder if the same to people you're going to are 300 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: the same to people that you're always showing up for, Right, 301 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: So the idea is that of course they're going to 302 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: be there for me because I'm always there for them, 303 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: when that, of course might not be the case. Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 304 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: And sometimes in that scenario, I think that people may 305 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: be able to be supportive to us in different ways. 306 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: You know, perhaps they're a good person to talk to, 307 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: but they may not be able to babysit your kids. 308 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: Perhaps they are the person that you call for a 309 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 1: good laugh after a long day. And so we have 310 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: to be very clear about the capacity of the people 311 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: that we love because everybody doesn't have the same skill set, right, 312 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: And so if We're going to this person who doesn't 313 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: have a financial resource and asking to borrow money. Yeah, 314 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 1: that might be a note from them. So we have 315 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: to really think about capacity and not relationship, because sometimes 316 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: we really get focused on well, this is my mother, 317 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: this is my brother, So they should be able to X, 318 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: but they may not be in the situation to help 319 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: you in the way that you're needing. That is a 320 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,239 Speaker 1: great point. Thank you for sharing that. It So I 321 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: want to shift a little bit to talk more about 322 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: boundaries in terms of technology. And we know, especially this year, 323 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: it feels like technology really has just kind of taken 324 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: over our lives, right, So we are working from home, 325 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: relaxing at home, having happy I always at home, celebrating 326 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: birthday parties at home, like just all the other things 327 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: at home. And so I would love to hear your 328 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: thoughts about how we manage technology when it feels like 329 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: it really is just bleeding into all of the areas 330 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: of our lives. Well, one of my favorite things is 331 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: that do not disturb features. My ranger is literally like 332 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: never on personally because I'm a therapist and any time 333 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: I've left it on and it rings in session, I'm like, oh, 334 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: so like so so now I just keep it off 335 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: to not disturb anyone. But it's really peaceful because my 336 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: mind set is if I am on my phone, I'm 337 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: using my phone phone, and if I'm not, I'm not 338 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: using my phone. And so I like having a separation 339 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: of like phone time and PV time and you know, 340 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: I'm with my kids or those sort of things. But 341 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: I do think that with phones now, because there's email, text, messaging, 342 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: d ming and all of these things, there is this, 343 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, almost expectation that everyone is available all the time. 344 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: I don't know how many times I've heard people say, 345 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: did you see the did you see my text? And 346 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I didn't check it, like I saw it, 347 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: but I didn't look at it. Like it's an expectation 348 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: of like having to always be engaged. And so we 349 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: as the consumer of technology, we have, you know, the 350 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: power to say, I'm going to disengage. This time is 351 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: not working for me. I will only spend two hours 352 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: on social media or whatever your time frame is. I 353 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: will blame Like you have the power to make those 354 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: accommodations that sort of serve you, because twenty years ago, 355 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: it seems like I can't even imagine a world without 356 00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: the technology. Now that's why I'm like, what year was it, 357 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: I don't remember, Like in the nineteen hundreds. Yeah, in 358 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: the nineteen hundreds when people had like house phones or stuff. 359 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: You know, if you left your house, people couldn't get 360 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: in touch with you, and there was no expectation that 361 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: they would try, like they respected that when you got 362 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: back home you had a voicemail or whatnot. And now 363 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,959 Speaker 1: that we have cell phones, it's like, no, you always 364 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: have to be available. But it's a beautiful space to 365 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: say that there are some times that I'm on and 366 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: there are some times that I'm off, and I can 367 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: create those times for myself. So how do we counter that? 368 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: Because you're right, I mean, you know, previously, in another lifetime, 369 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: it feels like there was you know, you could just 370 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: leave the house there was no phone, or if you 371 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: had a phone, it was like a huge bag in 372 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: your trunk only to be used for emergencies, right, not 373 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: like the little ones that fit in our pockets. So 374 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: how do we counter this expectation from others that we 375 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: will always be available and engaged. Well, part of it 376 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: is telling people that your n you know, just simply 377 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: saying like you know, if you have someone who's calling 378 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: you during the work day, which has been a big 379 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: thing in the pandemic, where you know, people just they 380 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: just went back to, oh, your it was like a 381 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: Saturday every day where people are just contacting you all 382 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: day and you know, this sort of thing and just 383 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: having to re establish those boundaries of Hey, I am 384 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: at home, but still from pen to to four o'clock, 385 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: I'm working and I'm not able to talk on my 386 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: phone or you know, respond to text messages. So saying 387 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 1: to people that I'm not available or after eight o'clock 388 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: I have to do not disturb on my phone because 389 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: I really like to wind down and get ready for bid, 390 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: or I don't talk on the phone during the week. 391 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: Weekends are the best time for me. If you send 392 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: me a message, I will respond when I am available. 393 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: One beautiful thing that I heard about email is someone 394 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: putting like in your signature, I check emails at twelve 395 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: and four every day. It's like they just wrote the 396 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: boundary there, like these are the ties where you can 397 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: expect that I'll be responded to email, but I'm not 398 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: treating this email like an emergency and removing it from 399 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: your phone and really making that plane to other people. 400 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 1: So technology is not the problem. It's not Instagram, Facebook, 401 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: these things are not the problem. It is us using 402 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: these things in a way that could be harmful to us, 403 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: and those restrictions or you know, expectations, limitations we set 404 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: around social media. It's really going to be based on 405 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: our lifestyles what we need to do. There are some 406 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: people who can text off day would network, so it's 407 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: not a clear cut you cannot do this, but really 408 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: figuring out what works for your life. Something else that 409 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: of course has happened during the pandemic is that people 410 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: want to stay informed right and in a primary way 411 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: where people are doing that, it's through news on social 412 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: media are kind of check in out new sites. But 413 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: I do think that there is a point at which 414 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: you become overloaded by information. Can you talk a little 415 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: bit about how you might set boundaries around things that 416 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: you do need to know, but of course there still 417 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: needs to be a boundary. Mm hmm. Well, Instagram has 418 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: some wonderful features like mute blocks that we need to 419 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: utilize more. I get a lot of questions from people 420 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: who say, my friend keeps posting news stories, how do 421 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: I stop them? And it's always how do you mute them? 422 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: How do you unfollow them? Because it's not always getting 423 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: people to change their content because other people might really 424 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: like it they want the news. But if you don't 425 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: want the news, you can mute it, or even at 426 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: a particular time, like when things happen in the world. 427 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: I noticed that there are some people who will just 428 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: post post posts and it's like, wow, like I only 429 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,239 Speaker 1: need one story about this. I don't need like up 430 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 1: to the minute, like you know, updates and that sort 431 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: of thing. And so for those times I may mute 432 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: people just because it feels better for me. Not following 433 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: some news accounts could be good for you as well, 434 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: or just going to a resource like you know, New 435 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: York Times, Huffington Post or wherever you find your news 436 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: and checking out for ten minutes a day and not 437 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: relying on social media for the news portion. So I 438 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: think there are a lot of controls that we can 439 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 1: put in place without saying people need to stop posting 440 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: these things on social media. But how do I manage 441 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: the people that I follow and engage with online? You know, 442 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: you made the comment about you know, the social media 443 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: platforms are not the problem. You know, we are the 444 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: ones that need to look at our own behavior. But 445 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: I do think it is important to talk about how 446 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: these platforms are set up right, you know, so we 447 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: know they have huge teams of researchers that the entire 448 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: job is to like make sure that we are on 449 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: there as much as possible, and we know how the 450 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: algorithm work straight and so the algorithms typically are kind 451 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: of designed to kind of take you through a wave 452 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: of emotions. Can you talk about why it's important for 453 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: us to remember this and how we can do a 454 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: better job of like regulating our own emotions as we 455 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: kind of serve. Yes, So you're absolutely right, like they 456 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: are appealing to your senses. They're trying to get you 457 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: emotionally attached, and for most of us it works. And 458 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: I think at some point social media is not completely 459 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: bad for us, and we have to think about how 460 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: much can we be in this space. And so if 461 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: we know that they're setting it up, so when we 462 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: get a life or we get a comment, we're more like, 463 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Like they say, likes is like you know, 464 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: it's almost like a drug, like another person like who 465 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: another person life it like that sort of thing. So 466 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: if you notice that that's keeping you in that space 467 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: for longer than you want to be in that space. 468 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,239 Speaker 1: Set a timer, you know, they have it within you know, 469 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: most of the social media apply patforms. And then I 470 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: have an iPhone, you can the Apple just shut off. 471 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: And it was so funny the other day I was 472 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: doing Alive with someone and the app just shut off 473 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: and we were talking about boundaries and I said, okay, okay, 474 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: I'm back, and she was like, what happened? I said, 475 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: I have a time around here, So my app just 476 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: cut off. So boundaries, right, I'm practicing them like you 477 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: can see, it's just it's shut off Instagram. So, you know, 478 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: just being really mindful of how you feel, because that's 479 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: why we know we need boundaries with stuff. When we 480 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: start to look at social media and we're anxious, we're 481 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: getting upset at people we don't know, We're getting upset 482 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: at people we do know because they're posting certain types 483 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: of content. We're upset that people are demanding that we 484 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: text them back. Those are indicators that boundaries are necessary. 485 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: And it's not that you should never feel like that 486 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: about anything, but if you're chronically feeling that way about 487 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: a relationship, about social media and technology about work. I've 488 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: been into why and then really considering what a boundary 489 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: could be in that situation that might make you feel 490 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: a little bit better. Mm hmmm. More from Nindra after 491 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: the break. You know, Nandra, you mentioned like messages in 492 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: your d M s and I think that if this 493 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: is something else I'd like to talk about. So we 494 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: know that a lot of people like make their living 495 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: kind of doing internetwork, right, whether that be influencer marketing 496 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: or you know, content creation, and so there is a 497 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: certain piece of you that you are sharing with the 498 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: world right through your social media channels. But I think 499 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: that that also then becomes difficult when you see people 500 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: wanting to set boundaries. Right. So maybe I'm comfortable sharing, 501 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, some information about my kids, but not a 502 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: of information, But then the audience is requesting more information. 503 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: And I've seen lots of people who you know, have 504 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: like larger social media followings talk about like the difficulties 505 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: setting boundaries. Can you speak to that, yes, And I 506 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: think that's another space where you really have to own 507 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: your boundaries, and it may be uncomfortable to let people 508 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: know that you know, there are just certain parts of 509 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: you that you're not sharing, but it's your choice to 510 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: share certain things. It's self interesting because I'm a mother 511 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: of two and I never share my kids on social media. 512 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: It's not my thing. And problem of it is because 513 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: I know people will start asking me more questions about it, 514 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: like I don't want to answer. I don't want to answer, 515 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: And so you know, there are certain parts of your 516 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: life that you can share more ordinary like it's my choice. 517 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: And so people can show you what they want you 518 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: to see. It's like when you see these influencers and 519 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: they're on the jet and you know, all this sort 520 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: of stuff. They're showing you what they want you to see. 521 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: They're not showing videos of tripping or you know, a 522 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: hole in near pain. They're showing you exactly what they 523 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: want you to see. And as a mental health person, 524 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: I understand the impact of people creating a story about you. 525 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: You know, as a therapist, you get that where people 526 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: have this like transference and they'll say like, oh, Dr Joy, 527 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: you must be such a great friend or you're a 528 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: great mother, and it's really based on you having a 529 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: picture of your kid up in your office and you 530 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: being nice to them. And so I know, I can't 531 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: control how people perceive that, but I certainly don't want 532 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: to give people something else to be worried and concerned 533 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: about it. So I'm very careful about what I share 534 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: and how I share it for myself, for my family, 535 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you know people who engage in some 536 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: ways I'll hurt people say like, oh my gosh, they 537 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: said this about my kids, or people have have asked 538 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: me to, you know, do things I'm not comfortable with, 539 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: And we really have to come up with those boundaries. 540 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: And it's it's tough because some of us are you know, 541 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: comfortable sharing more than others, and I think we have 542 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,959 Speaker 1: to determine what that is. Yeah, And to know, I 543 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: think overall, not even with just this conversation, to know 544 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: that our boundaries can always change, right, you know, So 545 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: maybe at one point you were, you know, like maybe 546 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: before you had children, you were more comfortable sharing more 547 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: about yourself, and maybe after children you decide that you 548 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: don't want to, right, So that it is always up 549 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: to us to renegotiate our boundaries in any area of 550 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: our lives. Absolutely, And you know, furthermore, with the MS, 551 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: you can answer any question you want to, and you 552 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: don't have to answer questions that you don't want to. 553 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: That's a really powerful thing that I've learned, because people 554 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: will ask you questions and it's up to me to 555 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: respond or not. And I've even gotten where people will 556 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: be like, hey, I actually this in your comment and 557 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: I see you didn't respond, and I'm like, oh gosh, 558 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: like wow, they're really pushing for that answer. And sometimes 559 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: it's something I'm just not comfortable answering, and so I 560 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: have the power to determine my comfort level. Yeah, And 561 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: you know, I think we didn't talk about this as 562 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: much today Niger, but I'm pretty sure we talked about 563 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: it last time. Just the discomfort that sometimes comes with 564 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: you feeling like you're like letting somebody down or disappointing someone, 565 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: And that is I think where people often mess up 566 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: with the boundaries, right, is that they feel like they 567 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: get this pushback and then it's like, Okay, well maybe 568 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: I'm being too harsh, are too critical? Yeah, I think 569 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: the number one reason we don't set boundaries is guilt. 570 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: We feel really bad for having boundaries with people. I 571 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: don't enjoy or receive any pleasure from having to set boundaries, 572 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: and it's still a challenging practice, right, But what's more 573 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: challenging is feeling uncomfortable, feeling taking advantage of being disrespected. 574 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: In some instances, you know, people may be abused, Like 575 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: I think that's more challenging than the discomfort of setting 576 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: that boundary. And it doesn't have to be perfect, but 577 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: just saying something to someone can really change the course 578 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: of your relationship or how you're feeling in a certain situation. 579 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: It really does just make you feel a little bit better. 580 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but there's been some times 581 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: where I set some boundaries and I have a call 582 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: of read afterwards just to like, you'll never believe what 583 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: I said, you know, just like it just go so 584 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 1: it's well, you know, just like I feel good when 585 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,399 Speaker 1: I avocate for myself, and I think we all do. 586 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: Even if leading up to what we say or do 587 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: is uncomfortable, it still feels really good to do it 588 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,839 Speaker 1: because we know that we are taking care of ourselves. 589 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: M Yeah, you're right about that. So the question we 590 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: get asked all the time, Andrew, is like, how do 591 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: you manage that guilt? Because I think for some people 592 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: that guilt feels so overwhelming and that's why they you know, 593 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: really struggle with setting the boundaries like you mentioned, So 594 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: do you have any tips or strategies for managing the 595 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: guilt that comes up with boundary setting? Absolutely want is 596 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: check your mindset. The thing about guilty is we typically 597 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: feel it for two reasons. One, we are actually doing 598 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: something bad. We're still in we're taking advantage of something 599 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: we hurt and somebody. We're doing something bad, and then 600 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: you know, you may feel a little guilty. The other reason, 601 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: which is the majority of why we feel guilty, it's 602 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: just we have been told that doing this thing is 603 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: not nice. We feel bad about taking care of ourselves. 604 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: We feel bad for not being there for so and so, 605 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: we feel bad for not saying yes to taking on 606 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: one more project. But you haven't actually done anything wrong. 607 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: No one has been harmed, there is no crime being committed. 608 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: So it's really the mindset of am I being a 609 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: nice person and nice people say no, they do it 610 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: in a pleasant way. Um, I'll tell you when I 611 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: was writing this book, I said the way my editor said, 612 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,720 Speaker 1: oh have you thought about this? It was so nice. 613 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: She was disagreeing with me, so kind, but it was 614 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: just like, I mean, she didn't yell at me. You know, 615 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: it was just I wonder if this portion would look 616 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,240 Speaker 1: better in this part of the book. It was so gentle. 617 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: I wasn't offended. It was just like, wow, she has 618 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: a way of saying this doesn't work. You need to 619 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: move it, you know. But it's so delicate that you 620 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: can't help but respect it. And so I think sometimes 621 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,319 Speaker 1: we think just saying a simple sentence or making a 622 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,879 Speaker 1: request of someone is going to break them down so 623 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: much they won't be able to recover. But really setting 624 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 1: the boundary is a carrying out because I'll tell you, 625 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: in relationships we don't care anymore. We don't set boundaries, 626 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: we leave them. And so me setting a boundary in 627 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: a relationship is really an indicator that I'm trying to 628 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: be in the relationship. And so you can respect the boundary, 629 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: that would be great for the relationship. And if not, 630 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: I might stop caring about the boundaries and not have 631 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: the relationship. And so the boundary piece is just a 632 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: really wonderful way of trying to stay in a relationship 633 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: with someone. I think that that's a good reminder for people, 634 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: right like the work of boundary setting is an indication 635 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 1: that they're still health in the relationship, right, like there's 636 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: still time for something to be done. M h. Yeah. 637 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: So we've talked about parenting a little bit, and I 638 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: want to get some information because we do have lots 639 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: of parents who listen to the podcast around working and 640 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: helping our kids set boundaries around technology. Do you have 641 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: any chips for that, yes, So I think one of 642 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: the things is just setting some parameters like no tablets 643 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: at the dinner table, or when you're with your friends 644 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: you cannot bring out iPad, or I've seen a lot 645 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: of parents say, you know, Monday through Friday, no electronics 646 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: and on Saturday Sunday you can use them. And so 647 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 1: really figuring out what works for you and your family 648 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: is really hopeful and not letting the kid determine that, 649 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: because some kids will just do endless tablet, endless endless TV. 650 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: But giving them some other options. And I know in 651 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: the pandemic that has been a really tough one for 652 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: parents because you know, at the beginning, so many of 653 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: us ran ran out and we bought all of the 654 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: outdoor stuff, we bought all of the Plato's and all 655 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,319 Speaker 1: of the and then you know, after a few months 656 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: was like, go get your tablet. It's like, go get 657 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 1: your tablet. You know, I am. I've been on seventy 658 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: two walks and you know, Blade Barbie, I've done all 659 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: the things, and now I just just get your tablet. 660 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: And so I get it. And I think you have 661 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: to figure out what works for your family and really 662 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 1: pull your kids away from, you know, those areas that 663 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: you don't want them to be in. So just mixing 664 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: it up some you know, having some individual playtime, some 665 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: tablet time, and modeling that behavior because now we as adults, 666 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: we on the opportunity or we may not be on 667 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: a tablet, but maybe we're on our phones and so 668 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, kids are seeing like I always have to 669 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: be engaged and a little bit of mornument is good 670 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,919 Speaker 1: for you. That's how we get readers and we get 671 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: you know, dancers. You just come up with a little 672 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: something when you bore. So just giving them a little 673 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: space to get creative and what they can do, giving 674 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,919 Speaker 1: them some time to do it, some really dedicated time 675 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: from this time and this time you just need to 676 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: go outside and you know, figure it out for an 677 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,439 Speaker 1: hour or two. Just helping them to stay away from 678 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: it and really modeling from them that look, I'm doing 679 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,280 Speaker 1: this thing and I'm not using my device. Really modeling 680 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: you know, some behaviors so that they can pick up 681 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: on it, and not allowing them to just use the tablet. 682 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: Always went bored because there are so many things to 683 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: do outside of technology that have advanced. I mean, there 684 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: are all sorts of toys and books and all sorts 685 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: of things kids could be doing. So definitely just giving 686 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 1: them some time to do that. And I don't have 687 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: like you know, some people I know it's like, you know, 688 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 1: no more than two hours, and that's fine, But I 689 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: would say what works for you and what works for 690 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 1: your family, because there are some kids where they could 691 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:42,719 Speaker 1: do four hours and they don't have a difference in 692 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: their behavior. They're still able to do everything that they're 693 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: supposed to do. And then there are others where, you know, 694 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: even two hours might be too much. So it's really 695 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: important to take a look at your family. You know. 696 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: The conversation around modeling, I think it's particularly timely. So 697 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: of course, there's a new social media app that has 698 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: come out called Clubhouse. Are you familiar with it? Yeah, 699 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: So a lot of people, I think, especially right now, 700 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: have found real interest in using Clubhouse, because you know, 701 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: it is like a great way to spend some time 702 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,760 Speaker 1: really interesting conversations. And I have heard lots of parents 703 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: on the app talk about you know, like just looking 704 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: up and like they've been on there for four hours, right, 705 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: And so it feels like there's this emerging technology like Clubhouse, 706 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: like other things that we probably don't even know about 707 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: yet that have the potential to kind of, you know, 708 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 1: really suck you in. Do you have any ideas or 709 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: thoughts about, you know, how people can kind of pay 710 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: attention to their boundaries around technology that might be emerging. Yeah, 711 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: when anything new comes out, it is like this, oh 712 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,280 Speaker 1: my gosh, I really like it, and you have to 713 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: start all over with with Clubhouse. I I did download 714 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: Clubhouse and I use it for a little bit, but 715 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: I too realize I'm like, wow, like this is listening 716 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: to like podcast for like all day and no pause. 717 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, next show, next show, next show. 718 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: And so anytime we step into these new places, we 719 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 1: have to think about the boundaries. And again it comes 720 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: from us like having really like chorus boundaries with something 721 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: where they're just like we and we do this thing, 722 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: you know, Oh my gosh, I use that thing for 723 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: ten hours and it's don't do it again, you know, Like, 724 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,840 Speaker 1: how do you correct that behavior? How do you step 725 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,280 Speaker 1: back and say, you know, I do have a break 726 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: in my day between six and eight am, and that 727 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: could be in the clubhouse time or at nighttime. I 728 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,359 Speaker 1: can do clubhouse from you know, eight until bed time, 729 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 1: whatever that is. But it is an ongoing platform, and 730 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,720 Speaker 1: so we have to be okay with missing out on stuff. 731 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: We have to be okay with not having all of 732 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: the information. Most information is repeated in some place that 733 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: some time, and we may have to get it later 734 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 1: at a time where we can really dig into it. Now, 735 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: if you have a job where you're typing all day 736 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: and you literally can listen to you know, a lot 737 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: of things happening throughout the day, okay. But if you 738 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: have a job where you you know, you can't do that, 739 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: you do have to create those boundaries to keep you employed. 740 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yes, absolutely, yeah. And I think even if 741 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: it is something that you can kind of have it 742 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 1: on in the background all day, that is still something 743 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: to be mindful of, right because it is still like noise, 744 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,360 Speaker 1: so to speak. I think it is just also important 745 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,360 Speaker 1: to pay attention to like, is there something wrong with silence? 746 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 1: You know, like do you need to have something like clubhouse, 747 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: like a podcast or whatever running all day, you know, 748 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 1: to kind of help you avoid something like what's the 749 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 1: purpose of it? Mm hmmm, Yeah, that's really good to 750 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 1: really be tuned into why you're using this thing in 751 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,880 Speaker 1: this way for such a long period of time. Absolutely, 752 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 1: just being mindful of that is so so important. Yeah, 753 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: m hmmm. So when we can that, you're we like 754 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: to have a press pause moment to share with the community. 755 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: And this could be an exercise or you know, additional 756 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,600 Speaker 1: strategies or some kind of challenge you'd like to offer 757 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: based on our conversation to kind of help them take 758 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: it a little further. Is there anything you'd like to 759 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: share for that. Yes. So, as we're setting boundaries, I 760 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: think one of the biggest things to consider is what 761 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 1: is your biggest fear around setting boundaries in your relationships 762 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,240 Speaker 1: with people? And as you think about that, think about 763 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: the way you're thinking it might go. Is that something 764 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 1: that you are referencing from the past, or is that 765 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: something that you've sort of made up in your head 766 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,839 Speaker 1: as the worst case scenario? And then I think it's 767 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 1: really important to consider how might having some boundaries in 768 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: this relationship improve the relationship. Thank you so much for that. 769 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,000 Speaker 1: I think that a lot of people will appreciate being 770 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: able to reflect on that and perhaps journal on that. 771 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,480 Speaker 1: I think that could be a good one to take 772 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,800 Speaker 1: to your journal this week to kind of reflect on. So, Nia, 773 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,239 Speaker 1: tell us where we can find you, Where can we 774 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: find the book? How can people be in touch? Yes? So, 775 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: I am most present on Instagram Because of my boundaries, 776 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,359 Speaker 1: I cannot use multiple social media platform I can't keep up. 777 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,560 Speaker 1: I'm like what okay? So Instagram and on Instagram, I 778 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 1: am natural to wob I have a website that has 779 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: some wonderful resources, and my website is www dot natural 780 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:40,840 Speaker 1: to dot com. My book that Boundaries Find Piece is 781 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,720 Speaker 1: available everywhere books are sold. So I hope you enjoyed 782 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,280 Speaker 1: the book and I hope that you become more boundary. 783 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for that. Natural. We really appreciate 784 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 1: you sharing with us again. You're welcome. I'm so glad 785 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 1: Nature was able to join us for today's conversation. To 786 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 1: learn more about her, or to grab a copy of 787 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: her book, visit the show notes at Therapy for Black 788 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 1: girls dot com slash session and please text two sisters 789 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: right now and tell them to check out the episode. 790 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 1: Don't forget that. If you're looking for a therapist in 791 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 1: your area, be sure to check out our therapist directory 792 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. And 793 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: if you want to continue digging into this topic or 794 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,839 Speaker 1: just be in community with other sisters, come on over 795 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 1: and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy 796 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,040 Speaker 1: corner of the Internet design just for black women. You 797 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,160 Speaker 1: can join us at community dot Therapy for black girls 798 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,799 Speaker 1: dot com. Thank you all so much for joining me 799 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 1: again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation 800 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 1: with you all real soon. Take it care