Speaker 1: It's one thing if you show up to a party
Speaker 1: and there's a few people there who were awful. It
Speaker 1: is quite another if you show up to the party
Speaker 1: and the host is awful. There are no girls on
Speaker 1: the Internet. As a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative,
Speaker 1: I'm Bridge Tad and this is there are no girls
Speaker 1: on the Internet. Okay, So Mike. For folks who listen
Speaker 1: to the newscast, they might recall that we do a
Speaker 1: little segment from time to time all about Elon Musk
Speaker 1: and Twitter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: Were doing it like every week for a while because
Speaker 3: it was just like one dumb thing after another, NonStop.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've kind of been, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've noticed, kind of been lessening the amount of times
Speaker 1: I talk about Elon Musk or trying to, I guess
Speaker 1: if I'm going to be keep it really real, trying
Speaker 1: to lessen the amount of times I talk about Elon
Speaker 1: Musk on the podcast.
Speaker 3: It has been a while since we've I've heard about
Speaker 3: Elon on here. What's the deal, Bridget, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think it just got to be a little bit
Speaker 3: too much, you know. I still plan on doing those
Speaker 3: segments on the newscast, But it just felt like every
Speaker 3: day he was doing something infuriating and it was taking
Speaker 3: up a lot of room from other things that we
Speaker 3: could be diving into. Honestly, I think if I talked
Speaker 3: about every instance of Elon Musk doing something infuriating or objectionable,
Speaker 3: it would be all we talked about on this podcast.
Speaker 3: And listen, there are many good tech podcasts out there
Speaker 3: that are dedicated to solely covering Elon Musk and solely
Speaker 3: covering his tenure at Twitter. Their good podcasts recommend them.
Speaker 3: That is not my ministry. I do not want to.
Speaker 1: Publish an Elon Musk themed podcast, but if I were
Speaker 1: to cover everything that he says and does, I absolutely
Speaker 1: would find myself doing that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, he's somebody who is
Speaker 3: in the news a lot, doing stupid things a lotten
Speaker 3: Those stupid things have implications and harm for the sorts
Speaker 3: of people that we try to elevate on this podcast.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it would just take up all of the
Speaker 3: damn space.
Speaker 1: But there's actually a lot going on with Elon and
Speaker 1: Twitter right now, so I thought we might be overdue
Speaker 1: on an update. So consider this a super sized version
Speaker 1: of our news roundup segment.
Speaker 2: What's Elon done? Now?
Speaker 4: Okay, so here's what's going on.
Speaker 1: First of all, I have to start by sort of
Speaker 1: giving you a bit of context, which is that Elon
Speaker 1: Musk has been trafficking in hate for a very long time.
Speaker 4: This is not new for him.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily feel like it got enough attention when
Speaker 1: he was first and talks to buy Twitter way back when.
Speaker 1: But the whole reason that he said that he wanted
Speaker 1: to buy Twitter in the first place was rooted in transphobia.
Speaker 1: According to his own text messages revealed in court, he
Speaker 1: didn't like that Twitter had rules against dead naming and
Speaker 1: misgendering trans people, and it prompted his interest in buying
Speaker 1: the platform initially to turn it into some kind of
Speaker 1: so called quote free speech utopia.
Speaker 4: So let's be.
Speaker 1: Really really clear about who he is and who he
Speaker 1: has always been. I feel like a lot of folks,
Speaker 1: even folks that I respect, in tech journalism tech media,
Speaker 1: really kind of sold this false narrative that, oh, Elon
Speaker 1: is a genius. If he's doing these hateful things, if
Speaker 1: he's tweeting sexist, transphobic, racist things, he must be playing
Speaker 1: three dimensional chests this must be some genius move. We
Speaker 1: don't understand either that or they did not cover this
Speaker 1: aspect of who he is at all. Only now do
Speaker 1: I think we're starting to see, Please places really catch
Speaker 1: up and cover him thoughtfully and accurately to who he is,
Speaker 1: what he says, and the things that he does. But
Speaker 1: for a long time, I don't think that was the case.
Speaker 1: So I just want to root this whole conversation in
Speaker 1: that reality that this is.
Speaker 4: None of this is new. This is who he is.
Speaker 1: This is who he's always been, and he's always shown
Speaker 1: himself to be this kind of person, and we ought
Speaker 1: to believe him.
Speaker 4: That this is who he is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he does a very good job acting the role
Speaker 3: of a fun party boy genius who's trying to do
Speaker 3: good in the world. And I think that's like really
Speaker 3: appealing and captivating to people. And maybe that's why so
Speaker 3: many people are like not only eager to take him
Speaker 3: at his word, but almost like trying to actively erase
Speaker 3: these things that he says with his words, you know,
Speaker 3: like trying to wanting to buy Twitter because he didn't
Speaker 3: like its policies against trans people as just like one example.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean the word that I would use
Speaker 4: is launder.
Speaker 1: I have to say that a lot of my colleagues
Speaker 1: who make content about technology have done the dirty business
Speaker 1: of laundering his bad behavior and making it more palatable.
Speaker 1: And I have a lot of suspen as to why
Speaker 1: that was. But I think that one a lot of
Speaker 1: these places just don't have the range, right Like, if
Speaker 1: you don't have the range to dive into the way
Speaker 1: that things like transphobia, sexism, racism are impacting not just
Speaker 1: who he is as a person, but his business and
Speaker 1: financial moves, moves that impact all of us, you might
Speaker 1: be less inclined to have that inform your reporting about him,
Speaker 1: even though it is absolutely unequivocally part of the story
Speaker 1: of how he runs businesses. You know, this is someone
Speaker 1: who has been accused of mistreating his workers along racial lines,
Speaker 1: around along gender lines, right Like, this is absolutely part
Speaker 1: and parcel to how he runs businesses. So if you're
Speaker 1: somebody who makes media or writes or covers about technology
Speaker 1: and you're leaving that out, well you're leaving out a
Speaker 1: huge relevant part of the story.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think the idea that people don't have the range
Speaker 3: to cover the implications of his hateful statements is really
Speaker 3: interesting because I think he counts on a similar thing
Speaker 3: regarding his a lot of his technical statements.
Speaker 2: I feel it's.
Speaker 3: Almost a meme at this point that it's easy to
Speaker 3: think Elon Musk is a genius until he says something
Speaker 3: about a domain that you happen to know something about,
Speaker 3: and I feel it feels like there's a lot of
Speaker 3: parallels with what you were just talking about, where journalists
Speaker 3: maybe don't have the range to really contextualize the impact
Speaker 3: of his transphobic or racist or anti semitic statements. Similarly,
Speaker 3: people just take him at his word that he's a
Speaker 3: tech genius who will revolutionize social media and create the
Speaker 3: new everything app that users have been clamoring for, which
Speaker 3: doesn't seem to be working out super great.
Speaker 1: I think never underestimate how much people will believe you
Speaker 1: when you are a wealthy white guy who says you're
Speaker 1: a genius and Mike to your point about buying Twitter
Speaker 1: and like revolutionizing it, if I were to get into
Speaker 1: the depths of it, we would be here for hours.
Speaker 1: But let me just say this as somebody who has
Speaker 1: studied social media worked at social media companies ben in
Speaker 1: the space for a long time. Ben In rooms with
Speaker 1: people who are way smarter than I am, who have
Speaker 1: been working at this for many, many years, longer than
Speaker 1: I have, and we all cannot agree on how to
Speaker 1: do this right. Like the what we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about today, content moderation and how you keep hate off
Speaker 1: of platforms is very complicated. It's very complex. There's not
Speaker 1: like one simple answer. Smart people learned, people accomplished. People
Speaker 1: have been arguing about it since there was social media.
Speaker 4: The hubris that.
Speaker 1: It takes to walk in and be like, well, I
Speaker 1: can do this, it like it fills me with such
Speaker 1: a deep rage and to.
Speaker 4: Have people be like, maybe he can do it.
Speaker 1: He has never done this before, and there's no background
Speaker 1: in it, and people who have been doing it for
Speaker 1: like decades haven't been able to figure it out. And
Speaker 1: it's not really an easy thing. But I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe he's a genius and he can figure it out.
Speaker 3: He's so obviously not up to the task of figuring
Speaker 3: out social media these like really difficult, abstract, high level problems.
Speaker 3: I remember one of the first things he did when
Speaker 3: he took over Twitter was, uh, you know, fire a
Speaker 3: bunch of people, and then the engineers who were left.
Speaker 3: I forget the exact details, but it was like they
Speaker 3: had to meet with him and show him like how
Speaker 3: many lines of code they were writing each week, which
Speaker 3: is the craziest metric by which to judge engineers.
Speaker 1: Yes, but that's the thinking of someone who doesn't know
Speaker 1: what they're doing of like, well, just obviously more equals good, right,
Speaker 1: Like that's the only that's the only way my brain
Speaker 1: can understand this is.
Speaker 4: Like, like that has to be the way it works, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, more code equals better, right, Like obviously, Yeah,
Speaker 3: That's that's always what engineers are saying.
Speaker 1: It's like if a caveman was run in Twitter.
Speaker 4: Okay, so Elon Musk.
Speaker 1: He tweets and does misogynistic things, racist things, transphobic things,
Speaker 1: and has trafficked in anti semitism before too a lot
Speaker 1: of times. In the past it's been this brand of
Speaker 1: kind of wink wink nod nod anti semitism, like dog whistles,
Speaker 1: but last week he engaged in pretty overt anti semitism.
Speaker 1: Musk posted to Twitter, you have said the actual truth
Speaker 1: in response to a post that claimed that Jewish people
Speaker 1: support quote dialectical hatred against whites.
Speaker 3: I feel like the word dialectical is having a renaissance.
Speaker 3: Maybe people have been talking about dialecticals this whole time
Speaker 3: and I've just been laid to the party.
Speaker 4: Well, I kind of get what you mean that.
Speaker 1: It might be one of those words that people who
Speaker 1: are trying to make their terrible, messed up opinions sound
Speaker 1: like high art and like high falutin. There are a
Speaker 1: couple of words like that that I've definitely heard in
Speaker 1: college classes where it's like, oh, you are just trying
Speaker 1: to make your horrible opinion sound refined?
Speaker 4: Is that sort of what you mean?
Speaker 2: That is kind of what I mean.
Speaker 3: It feels like one of these words that like you
Speaker 3: just kind of sprinkle it in and it adds an
Speaker 3: air of authority or learnedness. It's like I'm referencing nineteenth
Speaker 3: century philosophers. Clearly what I'm saying isn't dumb, but like,
Speaker 3: what is it actually adding?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: Like my flavor of anti Semitism is actually very learned?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Like you know, he in this quote that you just read,
Speaker 3: he said that they were supporting dialectical hatred against whites.
Speaker 3: What is the word dialectical really adding in that sentence
Speaker 3: other than connotations of you know, I'm someone who's read philosophy.
Speaker 3: This is a learned take, not just hate.
Speaker 4: Totally agree.
Speaker 1: So this kind of feels like yet another tipping point
Speaker 1: for the platform. I think I've said that before on
Speaker 1: the podcast, that like, oh, this is a new low,
Speaker 1: this is a new low. But no, this is a
Speaker 1: really this is a real new low. I think it
Speaker 1: feels like a new low in a situation that was
Speaker 1: already not so great. Elon Musk's remarks drew widespread condemnation.
Speaker 1: The White House even weighed in saying it is unacceptable
Speaker 1: to repeat the hideous lie behind the most fatal act
Speaker 1: of anti Semitism in American history at any time, let
Speaker 1: alone one month after the deadliest day for the Jewish
Speaker 1: people since the Holocaust. This is from White House spokesperson
Speaker 1: Andrew Bates in a statement. A little side note here,
Speaker 1: which is that the White House putting out this statement
Speaker 1: is one thing. But you know, the reality is that
Speaker 1: the American government is pretty deeply entangled with Elon Musk
Speaker 1: right now to communications and technology infrastructure. In addition to
Speaker 1: owning and tanking Twitter and also Tesla, Musk runs the
Speaker 1: high speed satellite internet provider Starlink. That's been a major
Speaker 1: factor in both the war and Ukraine and the conflict
Speaker 1: in Gaza. And right now there's over a billion dollars
Speaker 1: worth of Elon Musk's SpaceX technology about to launch Pentagon
Speaker 1: tech into space, and so, you know, I agree with
Speaker 1: this statement. However, the reality is that American civic infrastructure
Speaker 1: and public infrastructure remains pretty entangled with and reliant on
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways Elon Musk, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: it sounds great, but what can they really do when
Speaker 1: that is the case.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and not just our civic infrastructure are military infrastructure, right,
Speaker 3: Like we should definitely link to Ronan Pharaoh's piece in
Speaker 3: the show notes about how star Link has been kind
Speaker 3: of instrumental in Ukraine's war against Russia and how awkward
Speaker 3: a position that has put the Pentagon into of you
Speaker 3: know this this military ally in a life and death
Speaker 3: conflict being so dependent on Starlink, which is a private
Speaker 3: company owned by this mercurial.
Speaker 2: Guy.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing, like at the very
Speaker 1: like base level, do you really want like if you
Speaker 1: see the way that Elon Musk tweets if you've ever
Speaker 1: seen him on the Joe Rogan Show, which it needs
Speaker 1: to be part of my job to watch Joe Rogan podcasts,
Speaker 1: and I have seen him on those podcasts. You would say, like,
Speaker 1: this is not somebody that we want deeply entangled in
Speaker 1: like life or deay military operations, right, Like, it's just
Speaker 1: that simple. And I think that it really does mirror
Speaker 1: the relationship that a lot of us myself unfortunately very
Speaker 1: much included, have with Elon Musk's Twitter, right, Like, we
Speaker 1: hate it for lots of really valid reasons, but in
Speaker 1: other ways, you know, leaving Twitter outright can feel really hard,
Speaker 1: especially given that it doesn't really feel like there's one
Speaker 1: place that has a merge to replace it necessarily. It's
Speaker 1: certainly the way that I feel. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: like Elon Musk. I don't like the idea that every
Speaker 1: day that I'm showing up on this platform, I am
Speaker 1: essentially complicit in his reign over this technology. Like, I
Speaker 1: don't like that. I don't like my personal individual role
Speaker 1: in that dynamic. I want to stop using it. However,
Speaker 1: it has also become such a big part of my
Speaker 1: own media diet, right It's it's how I collect stories
Speaker 1: for the podcasts and perspective for the podcast and it's
Speaker 1: also just hard to give up on those days where
Speaker 1: I felt like Twitter was the place that you could
Speaker 1: find legitimate community and build real political power and social
Speaker 1: power and like lead to actual change. But these days, no,
Speaker 1: I don't feel that way on the platform at all.
Speaker 1: I think I shared this on the Patreon episode that
Speaker 1: we did a while back about my decision whether to
Speaker 1: stay on Twitter or leave Twitter. But not that long ago,
Speaker 1: I was called a straight up racial slur on Twitter
Speaker 1: and it's been a while since that kind of thing
Speaker 1: has happened, And it was a racial slur that I
Speaker 1: had never heard before in my thirty out of years
Speaker 1: as a black woman on this planet.
Speaker 4: I had to look it up on Urban Dictionaire.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, they're like coming out with
Speaker 1: new racial slurs on Twitter now, who knew? But like, so,
Speaker 1: like the vibes are not good, right, I'll be the
Speaker 1: first person to admit that, But where would we go, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think that we have anything right now that
Speaker 1: would actually be a replacement for it.
Speaker 3: And it's a real catch twenty two because I think
Speaker 3: exactly that feeling is what keeps people there and perpetuates
Speaker 3: its status as like the place that people are.
Speaker 1: Absolutely and I won't need to say, like, that's not
Speaker 1: unique to Twitter. I think Facebook did the same thing,
Speaker 1: where it's like this is where my friends are, this
Speaker 1: is how I remember my friend's birthdays, Like this is
Speaker 1: how I go to events, That's how I find out
Speaker 1: about events. Platforms intentionally make you feel like your entire
Speaker 1: world is on their platforms. What's that much easier for
Speaker 1: you to be like, I'm out. I don't want this,
Speaker 1: because it means that breaking up with that platform is
Speaker 1: going to feel like breaking up with your friends, your community,
Speaker 1: how you remember birthdays, how you keep track of people
Speaker 1: in your that you went to school with, how you
Speaker 1: keep track of events happening in your local community, all
Speaker 1: of that right, and so that's by design. However, the
Speaker 1: White House actually announced today that they were joining the
Speaker 1: Twitter alternative Threads, which we talked about on the podcast before.
Speaker 1: I think you and I both tried it briefly. I
Speaker 1: haven't logged it in a while. Maybe it's pop it
Speaker 1: over there, or I need to like dip back in.
Speaker 1: Maybe I will. And I do think that Biden's campaign
Speaker 1: being on threads will cause a lot of journalists and
Speaker 1: media makers. The folks who made up a big contingent
Speaker 1: of like what kept Twitter moving to be spending more
Speaker 1: time on thread. So that's I thought that was kind
Speaker 1: of an interesting kind of We'll see about this whole situation.
Speaker 5: Let's take a quick break.
Speaker 4: And are back.
Speaker 1: So the White House was not the only place fed
Speaker 1: up with Elon Musk's antics. On November eighth, Media Matters
Speaker 1: staffer Eric Hananok published a report showing Nazi content on
Speaker 1: Twitter alongside advertisements for major brands. Hananochi rights as ex
Speaker 1: owner Elon Musk continues his descent into white nationalists and
Speaker 1: anti Semitic conspiracy theories. His social media platform has been
Speaker 1: placing ads for major brands like Apple, Bravo, IBM, Oracle,
Speaker 1: Exfinity next to content that house Adolf Hitler and his
Speaker 1: Nazi party. The company's placements come after CEO Linda Yakarino
Speaker 1: claimed that brands are protected from the risk of being
Speaker 1: next to toxic posts on the platform. We also saw
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy one rabbis, leaders of Jewish organizations, artists, activists,
Speaker 1: and academics publish a letter pressuring brands to stop advertising
Speaker 1: on Twitter, saying Elon Musk is spreading the kind of
Speaker 1: antisemitism that leads to massacres, and advertisers are funding the
Speaker 1: platform that allows him to spread his ideology to hundreds
Speaker 1: of millions of people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can imagine that that group of Rabbis didn't
Speaker 3: love seeing all that Nazi content, you know.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, And so these companies actually did start suspending
Speaker 1: their advertising from Twitter, first IBM, then Apple, Warner Brothers, Lionsgate, Discovery, Paramount,
Speaker 1: and Sony have all left too. Now, this is kind
Speaker 1: of a huge deal. According to The Washington Post, Apple
Speaker 1: was Twitter's biggest ad buyer during the first quarter of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, an ad by amounting to forty eight
Speaker 1: million dollars in Q one meant that Apple accounted for
Speaker 1: a whopping four percent of Twitter's total revenue for the quarter.
Speaker 1: So that's like a non trivial amount of revenue. So
Speaker 1: if they lose Apple, they could be losing a big
Speaker 1: chunk of their money.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a big chunk. It's interesting that Apple spent
Speaker 3: forty eight million dollars in a single quarter advertising on Twitter.
Speaker 2: That's kind of mind blowing.
Speaker 1: And as the Media Matters piece points out, this comes
Speaker 1: after Twitter's maybe kind of sort of question mark CEO
Speaker 1: Linda Yacarino had been talking a very big game about
Speaker 1: wooling back advertisers and brands, promising them that their ads
Speaker 1: will not be showing up next to Nazi content, which
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest, that's like such a sad promise.
Speaker 1: First of all, it's not like there's not Nazi content.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, we all know there's Nazi content on
Speaker 1: this platform, but we can let's.
Speaker 4: Just start from there.
Speaker 1: We all know that it's not your ads will be
Speaker 1: seen by lots of people, or your ads will perform well,
Speaker 1: it's just there will not be a literal picture of
Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler next to it. And they can't even deliver
Speaker 1: on that.
Speaker 3: Like very sad When you say it like that, it's
Speaker 3: it is very sad. It's such a such a low
Speaker 3: bar that they're still failing to hit.
Speaker 1: Another thing to note here is that one of the
Speaker 1: brands that is pulling their advertising is Comcast. Comcast owns
Speaker 1: Bravo and NBC, and Linda Yakarino was formerly in a
Speaker 1: high up advertising executive at NBC, So if she's not
Speaker 1: even able to confidently woo back her where she worked
Speaker 1: most recently before she was at Twitter. She's not even
Speaker 1: able to woo back them as an advertiser. That is
Speaker 1: really telling me something that like something is deeply wrong
Speaker 1: and advertisers are not happy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, understandably so, and it's I mean, it's bad.
Speaker 1: The Media Matters report, which will put in the show notes,
Speaker 1: is pretty damning. It has all of these screenshots of
Speaker 1: brand tweets like advertisements next to like to roll over
Speaker 1: Nazi posts, like actual pictures end quotes of Hitler. So
Speaker 1: but that'll be next to like an ad for an
Speaker 1: Apple product or like an ad inviting you to hang
Speaker 1: out with the Real Housewives at bravocon right, Like, it's
Speaker 1: a very weird switch.
Speaker 4: We'll throw it in the show notes. Very damning.
Speaker 1: So this is not really anything new for social media platforms,
Speaker 1: especially ones that rely on user generated content. I used
Speaker 1: to work for a platform called Medium, and when we
Speaker 1: were be hyping up the platform to potential people to
Speaker 1: partner with us, we've been one of the ways that
Speaker 1: we would do it is by showing people how like
Speaker 1: if they had a serious op ed and they ran
Speaker 1: it at like a traditional media website, it might be
Speaker 1: running alongside those awful like sponsor those scammy sponsored ads
Speaker 1: that you see at the bottom of websites. It will
Speaker 1: be like, you won't believe how terrible the actress that
Speaker 1: played Jam on The Brady Bunch looks now with like
Speaker 1: an unflattering picture of her, or like, here's what your
Speaker 1: doctor doesn't want you to know about belly fat next
Speaker 1: to like a picture of like a stomach spilling out
Speaker 1: over some tight jeans.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 3: Those ass Oh those ads are so terrible and they're
Speaker 3: so obvious, but they're also so good at like enticing
Speaker 3: me to want to click on them, Like I don't
Speaker 3: I never click on them because I try to never
Speaker 3: click on I don't know shit that people are trying
Speaker 3: to like pay money to get me to click on
Speaker 3: It just feels wrong. But there's some of them are
Speaker 3: so good at like appealing to my basest interest of
Speaker 3: like what does jan from the Brady Bunch look like?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: Like that short is an unflattering picture of her? What
Speaker 1: a terrible angle her mouth is open? Let's just see
Speaker 1: So ads showing up to this kind of problematic content
Speaker 1: online is not new, and brands have always had to
Speaker 1: navigate that for like as long as they've been advertising online.
Speaker 1: But what is new and specific and unique to Twitter
Speaker 1: is that you don't usually have the owner who has
Speaker 1: made himself this like very visible person and on the
Speaker 1: platform endorsing those same kind of problematic views.
Speaker 4: Like it's one thing if you show up.
Speaker 1: To a party and there's a few people there who
Speaker 1: are awful. It is quite another if you show up
Speaker 1: to the party and the host is awful, and that
Speaker 1: awful host is also high fiving and like hyping up
Speaker 1: all of the awful people at the party. It's a
Speaker 1: totally different thing. And I think that that's what brands
Speaker 1: are responding to in this moment.
Speaker 3: That is such a good analogy. Why would a person
Speaker 3: want to stay at this party?
Speaker 4: You would leave?
Speaker 1: You would be like, oh, I have to get out
Speaker 1: of here, right. I've been at parties like that, not
Speaker 1: with Nazis, but with other like other less objectionable forces,
Speaker 1: and you know what you do?
Speaker 4: You leave.
Speaker 1: That's what these brands are doing. These big companies like
Speaker 1: your ibms and your apples can really set the tone
Speaker 1: for the space, and so if they're pausing will it
Speaker 1: can create a domino effect where other companies will get
Speaker 1: the idea and pause as well. So after these advertisers left.
Speaker 1: Elon Musk took responsibility for his tweets and the way
Speaker 1: that they had normalized hate on the platform. Oh wait, sorry,
Speaker 1: I misreading that. What he actually did is what he
Speaker 1: always does, which was tweet a million tweets and then
Speaker 1: threaten a lawsuit. He tweeted the split second the court
Speaker 1: opens on Monday, X Corp will be filing a thermonuclear
Speaker 1: lawsuit against Media Matters and all those who colluded in
Speaker 1: this fraudulent attack on our company.
Speaker 3: I'm sure they're terrified a thermonuclear lawsuit.
Speaker 1: Also, a second note, does this not sound like something
Speaker 1: a supervillain would tweet? Like this is giving lex Luthor,
Speaker 1: it's giving supervillain?
Speaker 4: Am I am?
Speaker 5: I wrong?
Speaker 3: It's definitely giving supervillain threatening a lawsuit thermonuclear. It's intense,
Speaker 3: and it's X Corp. Who's gonna do this? Like that's
Speaker 3: the name of a super villain's company.
Speaker 2: X Corp.
Speaker 3: Yes, it doesn't even have like a like a real name.
Speaker 4: It's just X a normal name.
Speaker 2: It's like such a not normal name.
Speaker 4: Okay, So I actually have.
Speaker 1: To give Elon a little bit of credit here because
Speaker 1: he actually tweeted something and then followed through on it,
Speaker 1: which for him, you know, you never know. He tweets
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff and like it doesn't come to fruition.
Speaker 1: But here he tweeted that there was going to be
Speaker 1: a lawsuit, and there is a lawsuit because earlier today
Speaker 1: we're recording this. On Monday, he actually did file the lawsuit.
Speaker 1: In it, he accused Media Matters of defaming Twitter, saying
Speaker 1: that they quote manufactured or contrived the screenshots in their report,
Speaker 1: and that Media Matters had not found the ads as claimed,
Speaker 1: but rather quote created these pairings in secrecy. The suit
Speaker 1: specifically names the individual Media Matter staffer who wrote the report,
Speaker 1: Eric Hananok. In the lawsuit, Twitter's again maybe CEO Linda
Speaker 1: Yakermino responded to the Media Matters support confirming that the
Speaker 1: screenshots were real, like in a literal sense. She tweeted,
Speaker 1: if you know me, you know I'm committed to truth
Speaker 1: and fairness.
Speaker 4: So here's the truth.
Speaker 1: Not a single author and tick user on x saw
Speaker 1: IBM's Comcasts or Oracles ads next to the content and
Speaker 1: Media Matters article. Only two users saw Apple's ad next
Speaker 1: to the content, at least one of which was Media Matters.
Speaker 1: Data wins over manipulation and allegations, don't be manipulated. Stand
Speaker 1: with X, which, first of all, I feel like that
Speaker 1: is the tweet of somebody who is perhaps a little
Speaker 1: bit unaware of how little goodwill people have for Twitter.
Speaker 1: And also Elon Musk right now, like other than the
Speaker 1: deepest Elon Musk fanboys who out there is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: X is part of my identity, Like I need to
Speaker 1: align with them. I need to like that is part
Speaker 1: of who I am aligning with this platform.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with X, I'm part of X. It's like such
Speaker 3: an uninspiring name.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 1: I just don't think it's how most people feel about
Speaker 1: social media platforms. Even when we were having conversations about
Speaker 1: potentially banning TikTok, people who were, you know, prolific TikTokers,
Speaker 1: they weren't saying like, I stand with TikTok like they was.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a you know, thing that they were
Speaker 1: making part of their identity. A lot of those folks
Speaker 1: that I talked to were like, oh, I'll be the
Speaker 1: first person to tell.
Speaker 4: You about the problems on TikTok. Oh, I've been talking
Speaker 4: about X y Z issues with TikTok.
Speaker 1: I think this idea of like you need Like, I
Speaker 1: don't know a lot of people who would have this
Speaker 1: level of brand loyalty to a social media platform that
Speaker 1: she is like conjuring up in this tweet.
Speaker 3: That's actually a really interesting observation because yeah, I don't either.
Speaker 3: It seems nuts, but that's absolutely what she's doing, you know,
Speaker 3: like promoting Twitter or X as like an identity thing,
Speaker 3: like you're either with us or against us, stand with X.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just don't think that's how social media platforms fit.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's how people think about social media platforms.
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, not that long ago, Elon
Speaker 1: Musk was behaving in an incredibly hostile manner toward people
Speaker 1: who use Twitter, and now to turn around and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we want you to stand with us. It's like, it's
Speaker 1: not really how it works. And even if that wasn't
Speaker 1: the case, I don't think. I don't think that's how
Speaker 1: people think about social media platforms in general.
Speaker 4: Full stap.
Speaker 3: It's really interesting that that's how she phrased it, Like
Speaker 3: it kind of suggested that's how they think about it,
Speaker 3: that maybe they're not thinking about X as a social
Speaker 3: media platform. Maybe they're thinking about it as like an
Speaker 3: in group or a club of their people who want
Speaker 3: to be there, reading Elon's in name tweets, entering their
Speaker 3: banking information so they can bank there, using it for
Speaker 3: video calls, all the stuff that they talk about wanting
Speaker 3: to do with it.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's how they view it.
Speaker 1: I think there are a small faction of people for
Speaker 1: whom that is the case, Like I think it's Elon
Speaker 1: Musk fanboys, probably some like aspiring tech thought leader types
Speaker 1: who have kind of bought in. But listen, you need
Speaker 1: more than that small faction of people to run a
Speaker 1: successful company. You can't just like build out this like
Speaker 1: small in group of people who will always agree with
Speaker 1: what you say to build your company a company like Twitter,
Speaker 1: that's just like knocking. It's not going to be a
Speaker 1: fruitful and sustainable way to build a.
Speaker 3: Platform, certainly not financially sustainable. But maybe that's not what
Speaker 3: they care about. Maybe Elon just wants his fanboys to
Speaker 3: stand with X. Stand with X is the craziest thing
Speaker 3: that I've heard all week long. It's like patriotic sounding
Speaker 3: incitement for people to stand with X, Like come on,
Speaker 3: get over yourself.
Speaker 1: I mean, we are talking about Elon Musk, the same
Speaker 1: person who launched an AI chatbot to tell him how
Speaker 1: funny he is and how much everybody likes him, how
Speaker 1: much everybody thinks he's so funny on social media.
Speaker 4: That's what we're talking about, So keep that in mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Also, the same guy who had Twitter's engineers changed the
Speaker 3: algorithm to boost his tweets, like specifically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the same guy who thinks that his genetics are
Speaker 1: like superior to other people's genetics, and so he has
Speaker 1: as many children as he can to spread his super
Speaker 1: genetics to as many people as he can to repopulate
Speaker 1: the earth within his image.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, that's we got to bring it back. We
Speaker 3: could be here all night and it's going from bad
Speaker 3: to worse. You were talking about his lawsuit against Media Matters.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So here's my thing about this lawsuit. Musk's
Speaker 1: suit is saying that Media Matters has manufactured those images
Speaker 1: in the report, but Yacharino has already confirmed in her
Speaker 1: tweet that they are real in a literal sense. The
Speaker 1: only thing that makes sense that they could be arguing
Speaker 1: is that they're saying that Media Matters is like using
Speaker 1: a dummy Twitter account that they have where they have
Speaker 1: followed or engaged with accounts that post Nazi stuff on
Speaker 1: the platform, and that is why they are seeing those
Speaker 1: kinds of tweets in their Twitter feeds next to ads
Speaker 1: for Apple and IBM, Like they followed a bunch of
Speaker 1: Nazi accounts, they followed, they followed our advertisers, and now
Speaker 1: they're just like getting those images. So like manufactured, I
Speaker 1: think is a bit strong, but what they're arguing is
Speaker 1: that the typical Twitter user probably would not be seeing
Speaker 1: those tweets next to those brands advertisings. But as a
Speaker 1: really good piece for tech Crunch points out, Twitter, by
Speaker 1: their own admission in the suit, was aware that these
Speaker 1: accounts posted Nazi content and allowed them to do that
Speaker 1: and allowed them to continue making money through Twitter's revenue
Speaker 1: program until Media Matters pointed it out with the report.
Speaker 1: The piece reads, the lawsuit says that these accounts were
Speaker 1: no to produce extreme fringe content, yet they were not
Speaker 1: demonetized until after Media Matters pointed them out. So x
Speaker 1: knew they were extreme, but did not demonetize them. That
Speaker 1: is what the lawsuit expressly states.
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, so two things here.
Speaker 3: Their defense was the only reason that those ads had
Speaker 3: Nazi imagery next to them was because we thought the
Speaker 3: account wanted to see Nazi imagery, right, Like that's their
Speaker 3: defense there, Yeah more or less. Yeah, yeah, okay, cool,
Speaker 3: probably not a great So again.
Speaker 1: No dispute that Nazi imagery is like available for people
Speaker 1: to see.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're disputing that non Nazis would see it.
Speaker 3: They're like, no, no, we only show Nazi stuff to Nazis.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Basically they're saying like you would have to be a
Speaker 1: Nazi who also follows like IBM and Apple to see
Speaker 1: this content, which, like.
Speaker 4: That's probably not a ton of people. But I don't
Speaker 4: think that's.
Speaker 1: Some like wild scenario that like media matters quote manufactured.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The whole idea here is that people who believe in
Speaker 3: a free society should be actively trying the thwart Nazis,
Speaker 3: not serve content to them that they want to see.
Speaker 3: That seems to be a point that is missed. But
Speaker 3: the other thing that you just said, these accounts that
Speaker 3: were producing the Nazi material in question in the report,
Speaker 3: they were monetized. They were like getting paid to produce
Speaker 3: this material for Twitter.
Speaker 1: Well that all depends, do you think Elon is actually
Speaker 1: mailing out checks. But yes, they were, Like they were
Speaker 1: monetized according to this report.
Speaker 4: They were.
Speaker 1: They via Twitter's revenue starting program. They were eligible to
Speaker 1: make money. Whether not Elon pays up or not or
Speaker 1: is doing funny math on that, I cannot say, but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they were able until this report was published, they were monetized.
Speaker 1: It was not until Media Matters published this report that
Speaker 1: Twitter demonetized them.
Speaker 2: How is that not the top line of this report?
Speaker 5: Like, ugh, more after a quick break, let's get right
Speaker 5: back into it.
Speaker 1: So we're talking about the thermonuclear lawsuit that Elon Musk
Speaker 1: filed against Media Matters for their report showing ads next
Speaker 1: to Nazi content on Twitter. Musk and Twitter CEO Lindia
Speaker 1: Parrino are saying that no actual users saw ads next
Speaker 1: to the content, which they do not dispute is on
Speaker 1: the platform notably, but they say that Media Matters is
Speaker 1: only seeing it because they followed or searched a bunch
Speaker 1: of Nazi content themselves. They're arguing that this is Media
Speaker 1: Matters quote manufacturing the content, which they say is fraud
Speaker 1: pretty dubious disinformation. Researcher doctor Carolyn Orbueno actually made a
Speaker 1: really good point about all of this on Twitter, saying
Speaker 1: that what Media Matters has actually done is reveal what's
Speaker 1: known as a data void on Twitter. She said the
Speaker 1: issue at the heart of Elon Musk's lawsuit against Media
Speaker 1: Matters is who is responsible for data voids when they're discovered.
Speaker 1: Media Matters identified a bunch of many data voids on
Speaker 1: Twitter where problematic content lives, and then reported on it
Speaker 1: rather than exploiting them. When you search for an obscure
Speaker 1: or rarely used hashtag or set of keywords like what
Speaker 1: Media Matters did and what a lot of people are
Speaker 1: doing now on Twitter, you will often stumble upon data
Speaker 1: voids or informational dark spaces. That is not fraud. This
Speaker 1: is a well known phenomena. Data voids or informational dark
Speaker 1: spaces are extremely vulnerable to manipulation and exploitation, often by extremists.
Speaker 1: It's not fraud when someone searches for and identifies a
Speaker 1: data void. In this case, Media Matters use the platform's
Speaker 1: own search function to identify ads that Twitter itself placed
Speaker 1: on the platforms. Twitter could have removed ads from these
Speaker 1: search terms, but they didn't listen. As somebody who has
Speaker 1: done the kind of work that Media Matters is doing
Speaker 1: with the support in a kind of way, like gathering
Speaker 1: content that breaks social media platforms as stated terms of
Speaker 1: service and user agreements. Twitter really ought to be thanking
Speaker 1: Media Matters for doing what should be their jobs or
Speaker 1: the jobs of their trust and safety teams. I'm sure
Speaker 1: it's like one person, if they have anybody there at all,
Speaker 1: and doing that unpaid. Might I add right, like being like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is your terms of service. Here's a bunch of
Speaker 1: content that you are monetized that, per your terms of service,
Speaker 1: should not be monetized. That is actually a favor that
Speaker 1: Media Matters is doing to Twitter. They honestly should be
Speaker 1: doing it themselves, but they're not doing it. So like
Speaker 1: it's just such thankless work. And I feel like in
Speaker 1: a different world that work would not be punished by
Speaker 1: a lawsuit. It would actually be you would be thanked
Speaker 1: for it, and in another world thanks for it by
Speaker 1: being given fucking money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be a different world for sure.
Speaker 1: As ridiculous as all of this is, even more ridiculously
Speaker 1: Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, do you remember Ken Paxton?
Speaker 2: I do? Yeah, He's like, what do you remember about him.
Speaker 3: Uh, he's risen to national clown prominence as the attorney
Speaker 3: general in Texas who was indicted by his own party,
Speaker 3: that party being Republicans in Texas for corruption. He was
Speaker 3: it's not a party known for I don't know, throwing
Speaker 3: out its own like his party was in control of
Speaker 3: the legislature in Congress and they indicted him for corruption
Speaker 3: and somehow he beat it. And we were talking about
Speaker 3: his some previous little stunt of his right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: His last the last time that we talked about him
Speaker 1: on the podcast, he was doing a little stunt where
Speaker 1: he was suing the platform YELP because YELP was accurately,
Speaker 1: per his own office, accurately describing crisis pregnancy centers on
Speaker 1: their platform. And so he was like, I'm gonna sue
Speaker 1: them because this is Texas. So Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton,
Speaker 1: don't worry because he is on the case. He is
Speaker 1: going to open up an investigation into media matters for
Speaker 1: potential fraudulent activity himself only having been recently as in
Speaker 1: like a few months ago, cleared up corruption and problem
Speaker 1: activity himself.
Speaker 4: Keep that in mind, he.
Speaker 3: Says he's just the guy to go after them. He
Speaker 3: if there's one thing he knows. It's fraudulent activity.
Speaker 1: He was like, oh, oh, frauds and scams. That's my
Speaker 1: forte baby, I'm on it.
Speaker 4: He said.
Speaker 1: We are examining the issue closely to ensure that the
Speaker 1: public has not been deceived by the schemes of radical
Speaker 1: left being organizations who would like nothing more than to
Speaker 1: limit freedom by reducing participation in the public square.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, so yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, it doesn't surprise me that he's pulling
Speaker 1: a little stunt sticking up for Elon Musk game, Reckon,
Speaker 1: that's game. Like He's like, oh, scams and stunts, scams
Speaker 1: and stunts, right or right, right, let's do this.
Speaker 3: Is there some sort of like Texas connection here that
Speaker 3: I don't know about. I don't know, like I'm giving
Speaker 3: him too much credit. I guess it's not like that
Speaker 3: kind of legitimate thing. It's it's a little stunt.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a little stunt.
Speaker 1: So Twitter assuming Media Matters for defamation, saying that they
Speaker 1: lost revenue when the brands left the platform. However, most
Speaker 1: of these brands did not say it was media matters
Speaker 1: as report as the reason why they left. Lionsgate specifically
Speaker 1: said that it was Elon Musk's anti Semitic tweet was
Speaker 1: the reason why they left. So this is really just
Speaker 1: like classic Elon blaming everyone else for his own behavior
Speaker 1: when that behavior causes a problem. He did the same
Speaker 1: thing earlier this year when he launched a lawsuit against
Speaker 1: the Center for Countering Digital Hey for publishing a report
Speaker 1: about how hate speech was flourishing on the platform since
Speaker 1: Musk took over. Like, this is just not how good
Speaker 1: leaders lead, Like blaming everyone and passing the buck to
Speaker 1: avoid responsibility.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, just continuously suing every organization that talks
Speaker 3: about rampant hate speech on Twitter kind of gives the
Speaker 3: impression that he's not really that concerned with hate speech
Speaker 3: on Twitter.
Speaker 1: No, And I think that's what bugs me so much
Speaker 1: about it. When Linda Yakarino is talking about like, oh, brands,
Speaker 1: like it's safe to be here, your content won't be
Speaker 1: next to Nazi pictures, It's like that's the only way
Speaker 1: they can conceptualize how a platform can be can feel
Speaker 1: healthy is that if brands feel good to show up there.
Speaker 1: I just think it's like the wrong metric, and it
Speaker 1: really makes me wonder if they meaningfully care what the
Speaker 1: platform is like, do they really care that hate speeches there?
Speaker 1: Do they really care that, like, you know, there are
Speaker 1: slurs and conspiracy theories and anti semitism, Like I would argue, no,
Speaker 1: I think the only thing they care about is our
Speaker 1: brands there, because they're ninety percent of our revenue. And
Speaker 1: speaking of Linda Yakarno, you know, we've talked about her
Speaker 1: a lot on the podcast. I'm kind of fascinated by
Speaker 1: her in a lot of ways. I see her as
Speaker 1: this sort of very intriguing figure. Forbes actually reported that
Speaker 1: Lindiakrino's advertising colleagues have been texting her trying to be like, honey,
Speaker 1: you need to get out of Twitter to save her
Speaker 1: own reputation, because they are worried that she's going to
Speaker 1: tank her own personal brand by being associated with an
Speaker 1: anti Semite, racist, misogynist like Elon Musk.
Speaker 4: Marketing industry veteran.
Speaker 1: Luke Pascalis said that he texted Linda Yakrino, and he
Speaker 1: told CNN she thinks quitting is failing. She believes that
Speaker 1: she can mother Elon Musk into someone who could be
Speaker 1: respected by the advertising community, and that chip has definitely sailed,
Speaker 1: But she's not going to come off the mechanical bull
Speaker 1: without all of us telling her it's time to go.
Speaker 1: And I believe that there's been a ground swell of
Speaker 1: a lot of people, such as myself, saying save yourself.
Speaker 3: So I'm curious, like, did you know who Linda Yakarino
Speaker 3: was before she became CEO of Twitter? Was she like
Speaker 3: a known person that people knew about?
Speaker 4: I knew who she was.
Speaker 1: I think that she was definitely a known high level
Speaker 1: figure in media advertising, like she was a big wig
Speaker 1: at NBC, But I don't know that like your average
Speaker 1: person and be like, oh, Linda Yakarino, of course. Also,
Speaker 1: she's someone who is like speaks publicly a lot, Like
Speaker 1: That's how I knew of her. Was like, she's someone
Speaker 1: who like would go to conferences and like in public
Speaker 1: speaking a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 3: I had never heard of her before she took over
Speaker 3: as CEO at Twitter, And I'm continuously puzzled by I
Speaker 3: guess the benefit of doubt that people give her, or
Speaker 3: like the good will that people seem to have towards her,
Speaker 3: because like I only knew her as coming in to
Speaker 3: try to whitewash the tanking Twitter brand as Elon like
Speaker 3: rode the sinking ship down. Every statement she makes just
Speaker 3: seems like sad, like, oh there's you know, don't worry,
Speaker 3: there's ninety percent less Nazi stuff now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I give Linda Yacharino no goodwill.
Speaker 4: We said this when when she first was announced. If
Speaker 4: in this day and age, you.
Speaker 1: Are willingly deciding to leave your job and to sign
Speaker 1: up to work alongside Elon Muskat Twitter, you know exactly
Speaker 1: what you're getting into you like, there is no world
Speaker 1: where you can be like.
Speaker 4: I didn't know or I thought I could fix him.
Speaker 4: You knew, we all saw you made a choice.
Speaker 1: I'm just really curious what her inner monologue is like
Speaker 1: and how she feels about how it's going. Her tweets
Speaker 1: are absurd, like when Elon Musk is like tweeting anti
Speaker 1: Semitic stuff and it's like making headlines. She'll literally be
Speaker 1: tweeting like does anyone like beverages? I love beverages, not that,
Speaker 1: but basically that, you know what I mean, Like the
Speaker 1: most inane stuff, And it's it's just like it's hard
Speaker 1: to not I don't know, maybe it's maybe I'm alone
Speaker 1: in this. It's hard for me to not be fascinated
Speaker 1: by her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're you're not alone there, I guess, I guess
Speaker 3: I get it. You know, I also find her interesting.
Speaker 3: I don't really know why though to that.
Speaker 1: Point, you know, lawsuit, don't no lawsuit. This is all
Speaker 1: bad for Twitter's economic outlook, all of the verification in
Speaker 1: Twitter Blue subscriptions are not really paying off. Advertising is
Speaker 1: still ninety percent of Twitter's revenue model. According to tech Crunch.
Speaker 1: Before any of this even happened, Twitter's ad revenues were
Speaker 1: already forecasted to be declining by fifty four point four
Speaker 1: percent from twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three, a
Speaker 1: pretty sizeable drop. But I wanted to add that for context.
Speaker 1: But I actually don't think that like how much money
Speaker 1: Twitter is making for how or whether it can wo
Speaker 1: brands and keep brands like is the ultimate sign of
Speaker 1: health for the platform. And I really want to caution
Speaker 1: folks about making it seem like those are the only
Speaker 1: metrics that matter, because the real marker of the health
Speaker 1: of a platform, in my book, is whether or not
Speaker 1: people who can actually show up there and whether it
Speaker 1: feels good when they do, right, Like, are you able
Speaker 1: to use the platform to find accurate and timely relevant
Speaker 1: information about what's going on in the world. Can you
Speaker 1: find community there? Like do you feel relatively safe showing
Speaker 1: up there? These are things that make an online space
Speaker 1: worth showing up to. And it feels like more and
Speaker 1: more that space in Twitter is gone and perhaps not
Speaker 1: coming back. But we all deserve to have healthy digital platforms,
Speaker 1: Like I truly believe that this is something that we
Speaker 1: deserve and should be able to expect from our digital
Speaker 1: media landscape.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's what people want, you know, community information,
Speaker 3: not to see a bunch of Hitler stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, baseline not Hitler stuff like that's like, can we
Speaker 1: get that?
Speaker 4: That would be great, that would be good, Like we.
Speaker 2: Joked, but you were saying.
Speaker 3: A couple of weeks ago, somebody like called you a
Speaker 3: racial slur, like not cool, not.
Speaker 1: Just a racial slur, a brand new racial slur that
Speaker 1: I had never heard before. I was like, I think
Speaker 1: this is a racial slur. I had to google it
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh wow, I got a new one.
Speaker 3: Who knew it was a new one, not an antiquated one.
Speaker 3: They're coming up with new ones now.
Speaker 1: They're coming up with new ones and they're doing it
Speaker 1: on Twitter, so I want to know, like, how are
Speaker 1: you feeling about being on Twitter?
Speaker 4: I did a whole kind of like.
Speaker 1: Emotional deep dive about my wrestling with my choice to
Speaker 1: stay or leave the platform. But tell me how you're feeling,
Speaker 1: Like are you on Twitter?
Speaker 4: Have you left Twitter? Are you still on? But like
Speaker 4: using it? Last? Let us know? I really want to know.
Speaker 1: You can hit us up at hello at tangoity dot
Speaker 1: com and thanks so much for listening. Got a story
Speaker 1: about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to
Speaker 1: say hi. You can reach us at hello at tangody
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode
Speaker 1: at tengody dot com. There Are No Girls on the
Speaker 1: Internet was created by me Bridget Todd. It's a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed.
Speaker 5: Creative.
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our
Speaker 1: producer and sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help
Speaker 1: us grow, rate and review us on Apple podcasts. For
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