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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Taught mom Casey Anthony, did you really think she was

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Speaker 2: going away?

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Speaker 1: No way, tot Mom.

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Speaker 2: Casey Anthony finds love with a married man blowing up

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Speaker 2: here's twenty year marriage and guess what. He apparently is

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Speaker 2: convinced she's innocent, just like the jury in Florida. Good evening,

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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: The infamous mother charged and acquitted in her two year

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Speaker 3: old daughter's death. Is she's stirring up trouble again?

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Speaker 2: Well that's an easy answer. Yes, she's stirring up trouble.

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Speaker 2: I wonder what this guy's wife has to say about it.

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Speaker 2: A married man twenty years in two boys. But it

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Speaker 2: didn't all start here. It didn't all start with her

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Speaker 2: convincing another since she's innocent, finding somebody else to foot

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Speaker 2: the bill for her lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: This is where it started. Listen, there's something wrong.

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Speaker 4: I found my daughter's carts today and it's not like

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Speaker 4: there's been a dead body.

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Speaker 5: Okay, what is the three year old's name?

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Speaker 4: Kaylee c A Y L E. E.

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Speaker 5: Anthony, Kaylee Anthony, Yeah, okay, she white, black, her Hispanics

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Speaker 5: It's like, how long has she been missing for?

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Speaker 6: I have not seen her since the seventh of June?

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Speaker 7: What is her data?

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Speaker 4: Verse eight nine, two thousand, Oh God, you're free two

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Speaker 4: thousand and five.

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Speaker 5: True. Listen what true?

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Speaker 2: I still hate to hear that part of the Night

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Speaker 2: on One call where the grandmother Kelly's grandmother breaks down

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Speaker 2: and screams, George Kelly's missing. Okay, So what's top line

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Speaker 2: Casey Anthony doing during all this?

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Speaker 1: Listen?

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Speaker 5: Ago, Okay, I need I understand? Can you just can

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Speaker 5: you calm down for me for this cemitute? And so

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Speaker 5: I need even know what's going on. Okay, I'm gonna

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Speaker 5: chime out.

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Speaker 1: And it goes on. It goes on. Now you hear

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Speaker 1: the grandmother.

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Speaker 2: That's Cindy Anthony, and she and her husband, George, who

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Speaker 2: are very fine people. I'd like to report I've met

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Speaker 2: them and spoken to them in depth, and the world

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Speaker 2: saw them at their very worst.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how they're responding to their daughter.

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Speaker 2: She trash her dad like crazy because he had an affair,

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Speaker 2: and now she's shocked up with a married man twenty

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Speaker 2: years in the marriage.

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Speaker 1: That's that's gone.

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Speaker 2: That said, back to where the starter you heard Cindy

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Speaker 2: Anthony and his Derek's But listen when taught mom Casey

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Speaker 2: Anthony gets on the nine one one?

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Speaker 5: Is your Is your daughter there? Have song with them?

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Speaker 7: Is your daughter there?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Can I speak with her? Do you mind if

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Speaker 5: I step with her? Thank you?

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Speaker 4: I called them two hours ago.

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Speaker 6: They haven't taught here. Finally, there is a very.

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Speaker 5: Problem, ma'am, ma'am.

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Speaker 6: Okay, they want to talk to you.

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Speaker 7: Question Hello, Hello, yes, hi, Well can you can you

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Speaker 7: tell me.

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Speaker 5: What's going on a little bit?

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Speaker 7: I'm sorry, can you tell me a little what's going on?

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Speaker 6: And my daughter's been received for the last thirty one

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Speaker 6: days and you know who has her? I know who

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Speaker 6: asked her. I've tried to contact her. I actually received

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Speaker 6: a phone call today now from a number that is

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Speaker 6: no wronger in service. I didn't get to speak to

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Speaker 6: my daughter for about a moment, about a minute.

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Speaker 5: Okay, did you guys call an important.

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Speaker 6: And yes, my mom did.

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Speaker 1: Got to speak to my daughter for about a minute.

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Speaker 1: What did you have a seance? Because Kelly, baby Kelly

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Speaker 1: is dead.

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Speaker 2: Do you hear taught mom lying through her teeth? Uh? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just got to speak to my daughter for about

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Speaker 2: a minute, and now this guy blows up a twenty

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Speaker 2: year marriage.

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Speaker 1: For what a piece of that?

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Speaker 2: Okay, joining me an all star panel to make sense

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Speaker 2: of what we are hearing.

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Speaker 1: It's just, you know, I wonder what the jury's thinking

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Speaker 1: right now. Steve Heiling.

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Speaker 2: Steve Helling joining me, Senior national news reporter at New

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Speaker 2: York Post. Author of Outrage, the Casey Anthony Story, author

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Speaker 2: of Tiger the Real Story.

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Speaker 1: It goes on and on and on.

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Speaker 2: But Steve Heling, it's I wonder what the jury's thinking

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Speaker 2: right now, because this is not just a flame with

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Speaker 2: a married man. It's the same modus operandi, method of operation.

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Speaker 2: You lie, lie, lie, lie, lie to another person. I

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Speaker 2: mean analyze at Helling. First, she lied to her parents

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Speaker 2: that she had a job while she sit on the

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Speaker 2: sofa eating chips all day, while they pay for everything

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Speaker 2: for Kelly. She lies about the father of Kelly. People

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Speaker 2: still don't know who the father is. She lies to

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Speaker 2: her employers and coworkers. She lies to her friends, she

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Speaker 2: lies to her living she's living with him in a

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Speaker 2: bunch of roommates. That's a romantic situation to everyone. Then

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Speaker 2: lies to a jury. And remember this, Steve Helling, she

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Speaker 2: even lied to police, and everybody's believing her until she's

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Speaker 2: taking them to her job.

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Speaker 1: And all this time she's been.

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Speaker 2: Wearing the uniform and wearing the id and going to work,

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Speaker 2: or the parents think so. She's even dressing up like

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Speaker 2: she's going to work at the theme park. They get

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Speaker 2: all the way there with her in the car. She

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Speaker 2: gets all the way to the door, she goes, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you got me. I haven't worked here in a long time,

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Speaker 2: and now she's lying to this guy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's the same mo. The jury's got to

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Speaker 1: feel like a big idiot.

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Speaker 8: Steve, Nothing that Casey pass can ever be taken at

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Speaker 8: faith value. You know, she doesn't care that he has

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Speaker 8: a wife, she doesn't care that he has kids. She

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Speaker 8: doesn't care any of that. It's all about her. It's

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Speaker 8: all about what she wants, It's all about what she needs.

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Speaker 8: That's how it's been for her entire life.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Steve Hawling, I appreciate you going into that psychological analysis.

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Speaker 1: I have doctor Bethany Marshall for that. I'm asking you.

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Speaker 2: About m oh method of operation, modus operandi. That is

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Speaker 2: how todd Mom escaped justice, that is how she lived

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Speaker 2: rent free, for so long.

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Speaker 1: That is how she had her parents taking care of Kelly.

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Speaker 1: All this.

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Speaker 2: This is herm to just squeeze everything she can out

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Speaker 2: of people, lie her way through, and fake it till

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Speaker 2: she makes it.

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Speaker 8: That just shows you that she's able to say things

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Speaker 8: and just kind of worm her way in there, no

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Speaker 8: matter who it hurts, no matter who's in the way,

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Speaker 8: no matter what. And you know, she's very very good

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Speaker 8: at it. She just has those the words that she

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Speaker 8: needs to say.

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Speaker 9: You know.

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Speaker 8: He says that she has an intoxicating aura, which I

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Speaker 8: don't even know what that is.

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Speaker 1: Oh, please stop, please stop, please stop.

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Speaker 2: This guy is blowing up a twenty year marriage because

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Speaker 2: tot Mom has an intoxicating aura.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you just said?

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Speaker 8: That is exactly what I just said, Nancy, And that's

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Speaker 8: what That's what everybody around him says.

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Speaker 1: Intoxicating.

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Speaker 2: Now that's an interesting choice of words, because whenever I

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Speaker 2: want to find tot Mom, I just put out the

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Speaker 2: APB to all the local bars because she will be

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Speaker 2: there in a pair of hotpants.

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Speaker 1: Having a shot. And I'm not judging. I'm not the

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Speaker 1: church lady. I don't care.

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Speaker 2: But after her daughter was murdered, rephrase after she killed

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Speaker 2: her daughter. I would have thought escaping life behind bars

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Speaker 2: would have made her out there she is on a

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Speaker 2: stripper pole at Fusion Bar for the hot body contest.

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Speaker 2: I would think that she would dedicate her life to

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Speaker 2: good works. Well that ain't happening, guys.

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Speaker 1: Where did it all start? Well, as far as we know,

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Speaker 1: right here?

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Speaker 6: List Okay, So I've been a vehicle so on too, No,

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Speaker 6: this was my vehicle?

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Speaker 5: What a vehicle was?

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Speaker 3: So on?

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Speaker 6: You need ploniac sunfire?

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Speaker 5: Who have her?

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Speaker 10: Do?

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Speaker 5: A name?

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Speaker 6: Her name is Janevas Fernando's Doodallas.

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Speaker 5: Who is that?

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Speaker 6: Maybe she's been my nanny for about a year and

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Speaker 6: a half, for almost two years?

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Speaker 5: Why why are you calling now? Why didn't you call

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Speaker 5: it any one days ago?

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Speaker 6: I've been looking for her and have gone through other

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Speaker 6: resources to try to find her, which is stupid.

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Speaker 5: Okay, can you can you give me the name of

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Speaker 5: the the nanny again?

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Speaker 6: Like spell it out for me, wineva V n A

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Speaker 6: I E A last name Fernandez, Fernandez hyphen Gonzales.

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Speaker 1: I love the way that she lies through this. She's

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Speaker 1: so calm.

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Speaker 2: Her mother, Kelly Anthony's grandmother, Sandy, who supported her and

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Speaker 2: took care of her and.

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Speaker 1: Treated her like her own child.

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Speaker 2: The grandma's is hysterical and she is lying so well

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Speaker 2: she can spell this fake person. This person does not

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Speaker 2: even exist. Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez.

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Speaker 1: And she actually says, yes, that's with a hyphen. It's

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Speaker 1: Zenaida z and I d a.

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Speaker 2: Her daughter is quote missing last name Fernandez hyphen Gonzales.

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Speaker 2: You know, Raymond Judice with me, renowned criminal defense attorney

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Speaker 2: located in the Atlanta jurisdiction, but practices everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Judice, It's just the criminals do.

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Speaker 2: The same thing over and over and over. How many

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Speaker 2: times were you in court with me and somebody had

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Speaker 2: have a bond, fourth tour and I'd say, just go

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Speaker 2: home to his mom's house.

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Speaker 1: He's under the bed.

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Speaker 2: If you go, we'll be able to plead him not

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Speaker 2: guilty and go to trio in about two hours. Same thing,

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Speaker 2: same thing. Here, she's doing the same thing using another man.

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Speaker 2: I might add another man. Just milk them till they're dry.

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Speaker 2: It's happening all over again. Does the jury ever stop

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Speaker 2: and think, wow, I aft up.

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Speaker 11: Look at the bottom of that form that the jury

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Speaker 11: handed back many years ago. It said, we the jury

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Speaker 11: find casey Anthony not guilty. And if this guy wants

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Speaker 11: to believe that that's the true, he's entitled to do so.

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Speaker 11: He's a grown man.

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Speaker 1: Did I not just say it's men. It's like somehow

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Speaker 1: she gets them of the hook and they believe everything.

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Speaker 2: And her mother, of course, you know Raymonds, you to Jay,

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Speaker 2: I believe everything my children tell me, but I trust

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Speaker 2: and then confirm.

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Speaker 1: Remember that. But here she has this unique ability.

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Speaker 2: And I know doctor Bethany Marshall is chomping at the bit.

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Speaker 1: But let me go to Rob Dick.

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Speaker 2: This is Top Mom Casey Anthony's former bodyguard, a bounty hunter,

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Speaker 2: private investigator. An interesting observation was made when Top Mom

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Speaker 2: Casey Anthony first got out of jail. And now this

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Speaker 2: is when she was charged with some minor offense obstructing

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Speaker 2: justice or welfare of a.

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Speaker 1: Child something like that.

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Speaker 2: She got out on bond and then was later arrested

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Speaker 2: from her her but the first the things she said

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Speaker 2: when she got on on bond, the first time she

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Speaker 2: went home, okay, remember her daughter still missing. Her parents

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Speaker 2: have like cement blocks in their stomach. They're so upset,

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Speaker 2: walks in the door and says was for supper?

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Speaker 1: Really?

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Speaker 2: Because you know, Rob Dick, but my fiance was murdered.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't eat. I lost down to eighty nine pounds.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't think. I couldn't hear music. I could hear

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Speaker 1: the clock tick in our home.

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Speaker 2: My mother had to stop all the clocks because they're ticking.

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Speaker 2: Just drove me crazy because Keith was dead and nothing

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Speaker 2: should go forward.

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Speaker 1: That's what it felt like.

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Speaker 2: And she waltzes in and says, hey, hey, mom, what's

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Speaker 2: for supper?

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Speaker 1: Supper my rear end? What were your observations, robbed Dick.

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Speaker 10: Well, that was a critical moment because that was the

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Speaker 10: exact moment.

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Speaker 12: That we knew it was bad.

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Speaker 10: I mean, you have to understand the timing of that.

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Speaker 10: She had been missing for thirty one days and then

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Speaker 10: been in custody for thirty days, so she's out of

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Speaker 10: the public eye, she's in the jail, she has no

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Speaker 10: way to look for her daughter or do anything. And

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Speaker 10: the second she's out and in front of her parents,

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Speaker 10: I mean, it should have been you know, where are

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Speaker 10: we at, what's the latest tip? Where can we find something?

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Speaker 10: You know, what are we doing? Screaming and nothing? It

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Speaker 10: was like, hey, I'm here, let's get the party started.

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Speaker 10: It was bad at that point.

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Speaker 2: Joining me also in addition to Rob Dick, Girardo Bloise,

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Speaker 2: former forensic investigator in the Casey Anthony case, testified in

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Speaker 2: the murder trial, president of G and JAY Forensics and

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Speaker 2: author of CSI, the Casey Anthony child murder Case.

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Speaker 1: Girardo, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: I know that you focus on the forensics, but I'd

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Speaker 2: like to hear your analysis of what's happening right now.

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Speaker 1: Girardo, Well, it.

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Speaker 13: Is said that happened at this time, and thank you

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Speaker 13: for having me in your program. In relationship with this

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Speaker 13: new relationship that Casey has. Well, Casey is a pathological liar,

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Speaker 13: and she's a selfish person, and she always thinks about herself,

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Speaker 13: and she wants to leave the crazy life without responsibility.

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Speaker 13: And right now I believe that Casey is one of

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Speaker 13: those cold blood human beings as well as a sociopath,

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Speaker 13: and it's a sick liar.

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Speaker 14: I remember being asked about this at the very beginning,

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Speaker 14: when I talked about walking up to that car and

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Speaker 14: getting about three feet away from it, and the smell

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Speaker 14: that emanated from that car. I could smell it three

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Speaker 14: feet away on the passenger side when I opened up

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Speaker 14: that card tour. Yeah, it smelled like decomposition, human decomposition.

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Speaker 4: Something wrong. My dad's car would go not a bad

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Speaker 4: day the clock.

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Speaker 5: Okay, what is the three year old's name?

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Speaker 4: Cayley c A Y l E E Anthony.

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Speaker 5: Hailey Anthony? Yes, okay, she white? Black? Her Hispanics? Who's white?

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Speaker 7: How long has she been missing for?

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Speaker 5: I have not seen her.

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Speaker 6: Since the seventh of June.

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Speaker 4: True listen, True listen a month ago.

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Speaker 3: More bad behavior from the party mom who was out

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Speaker 3: on the town while her toddler daughter was missing.

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Speaker 1: Todd Mom back in the headlines again, surprised.

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Speaker 2: No, this guy blown up a twenty year marriage to

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Speaker 2: be with top mom Casey Anthony because of her quote

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Speaker 2: intoxicating aura. But this isn't the first man that fail

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Speaker 2: for her b s. Listen our friends A and A.

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Speaker 7: Did you knowingly conceal Killy's wearing?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 10: Okay, so you're struggling with that one a little bit.

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Speaker 7: Tell me why?

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Speaker 14: Mean it's because I was so close to our house?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as she was pound right.

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Speaker 2: Steve Helling joining US senior national needs reporter in New

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Speaker 2: York Post, author of outrage the Casey Anthony story Steve Helling.

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Speaker 2: From what I've learned, this guy, this married man, really

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Speaker 2: believes she's innocent because they're at a bar, her natural habitat,

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Speaker 2: not judging, don't care. But it just reminds me that

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Speaker 2: right before it all came out that Kelly was actually dead,

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Speaker 2: I've observed surveillance video at a store where top Mom's

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Speaker 2: in there getting case after case after case of beer.

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Speaker 2: Oh Anson, push up, bras, got to have that to

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Speaker 2: go your beer. But that said, has he not seen

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Speaker 2: this a and he special? Does he not see any

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Speaker 2: of the testimony at trial?

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Speaker 11: Hiling?

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Speaker 8: I don't know if he thought or not, but he

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Speaker 8: sure didn't pay attention to it if he watched it,

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Speaker 8: because you don't have to watch very much about Casey

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Speaker 8: Anthony to know what she did. And if he thinks

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Speaker 8: that she's innocent of everything and she was just you know,

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Speaker 8: this poor innocent girl back then, then he hasn't been

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Speaker 8: paying attention. But I don't think he cares Nancy. He

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Speaker 8: doesn't care. He does not care if she's innocent, He

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Speaker 8: does not care if she's guilty. He doesn't care. He

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Speaker 8: just wants to get with Casey Anthony.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you know what.

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Speaker 2: George Anthony is hyperventilating and getting close to vomiting during

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Speaker 2: a polygraph because he's visualizing Cally's burial site.

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Speaker 3: Listen, how did you can seal her whereabouts that I

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Speaker 3: conceal her wearabouts?

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Speaker 15: I do not know where she was at?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 15: So why are you struggling with that?

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Speaker 2: From our friends at A and A and George Anthony,

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Speaker 2: who she threw under the bus, isn't the only one

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Speaker 2: that suffered.

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Speaker 15: Listen, I'm sorry, I take my hand till I'm sorry

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Speaker 15: to depress. Please, I'll take on with you.

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Speaker 1: We're going to get through this.

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Speaker 14: You want to go to the hospital, need to breathe.

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Speaker 1: From our friends at A and E. And it just

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Speaker 1: goes on and on and on.

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Speaker 2: You think George and Cindy are over this, They'll never

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Speaker 2: be over what happened to little Kelly? Read you to

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Speaker 2: Jay renown criminal defense attorney. You've tried a lot of cases.

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Speaker 2: Did you notice that Cindy Anthony says, I'm one per

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Speaker 2: convinced she tot mom knows what happened. Even now, even now,

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Speaker 2: they can't bring themselves to say.

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Speaker 1: She killed her.

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Speaker 2: I know she killed her. Now they still can't say it.

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Speaker 2: They just say, she knows what happened.

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Speaker 11: It's hard to fault parents who loved their daughter at

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Speaker 11: some level. For those words to come out of their mouth.

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Speaker 11: Would just, I can imagine, be so painful, and I

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Speaker 11: would assume and doctor Marshall can obviously address this better.

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Speaker 11: But they've had to live with this for all these years,

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Speaker 11: and they've had to develop their coping mechanisms and their

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Speaker 11: language and their message to allow them to get by.

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Speaker 11: But again, this guy in Tennessee, he ought to look

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Speaker 11: at what Casey put her own parents through, let alone

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Speaker 11: what she did to her child before he goes any further.

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Speaker 1: And joining us.

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Speaker 2: Renowned psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills, author of deal Breaker.

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Speaker 2: You can see her now on Peacock Dr Bethany Marshall.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany, Look, I'm just a late person. I'm just

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Speaker 2: a trial lawyer. Just hit me because I don't even

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Speaker 2: know where to start with this.

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Speaker 9: And Nancy, this whole situation is so tragic. Let's remember

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Speaker 9: that this whole saga with Casey and Kaylee began when

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Speaker 9: Cindy Anthony went to see a therapist about her daughter's

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Speaker 9: lack of maternal bonding towards the granddaughter, and the therapist said,

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Speaker 9: I think you need to get Casey to take more responsibility.

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Speaker 9: It's when Cindy encouraged Casey or forced Casey to take

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Speaker 9: responsibility that Casey just killed her daughter. So let's put

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Speaker 9: that in context and hold on to the fact that

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Speaker 9: Casey is not likely to have responsibility in any relationship

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Speaker 9: if she didn't have it with her own daughter.

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Speaker 4: I need to find you.

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Speaker 5: Your daughter admitted that your the baby is where, but you.

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Speaker 4: Kind of took a month together that my daughter's been

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Speaker 4: looking for. I told you my daughter was no since

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Speaker 4: for a month. I just found her together. But I

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Speaker 4: can't find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me, but

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Speaker 4: she's been trying to find for her herself. There's something wrong.

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Speaker 4: I found my daughter's car today and it's not like

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Speaker 4: theirs been a bread battery and the car.

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Speaker 5: Okay, what is the three year old's name?

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Speaker 4: Kaylee?

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Speaker 5: C A Y L E E.

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Speaker 6: Anthony?

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Speaker 5: Is your Is your daughter there? I wind have phe

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Speaker 5: with them? Is your daughter there? Yeah? Can I speak

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Speaker 5: with her? Do you wind it my secret her? Thank you?

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Speaker 6: I called them two hours ago. May I haven't gotten here?

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Speaker 7: Hey, finally and there is a very month ago, ma'am, ma'am.

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Speaker 5: They want to.

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Speaker 7: Watch Hello, Hello, yes, hi, we can you? Can you

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Speaker 7: tell you a phone on a little bit?

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Speaker 5: I'm so, can you tell me a little bit? What's

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Speaker 5: going on?

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Speaker 6: My daughter's been received for the last thirty one days

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Speaker 6: and you know who has her? I know who answer

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00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 6: I've tried to contact her. I actually received the phone

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Speaker 6: call today now from a number of the business wronger

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Speaker 6: in service. I did get to speak to my daughter

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Speaker 6: for a bottom moments about a minute.

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Speaker 5: Okay, did you guys call and report a vehicle?

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Speaker 15: So on?

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Speaker 6: And yes, my mom did.

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Speaker 2: Joining us Steve Helling and senior national needs reporter with

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Speaker 2: a New York Post and author of Outrage to Casey

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Speaker 2: Anthony's story, what twiggered your story?

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Speaker 1: Why do you care if tom mom's sleeping with a

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Speaker 1: married guy?

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Speaker 8: Well, you know, I got to give certainly a lot

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Speaker 8: of credit to Rob Dick, who's on our panel today.

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Speaker 8: He knew about it. And you know the thing is

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Speaker 8: that when you start hearing all these things that she

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Speaker 8: does and this wake of destruction that she's been leaving

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Speaker 8: behind her now for fifteen years or sixteen years, you know,

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Speaker 8: you start, you start feeling. It's newsworthy, it's something that

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Speaker 8: is interesting if nothing else. You know, I heard from

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Speaker 8: a couple women who have been talking to this guy

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Speaker 8: to Tyson and now don't want to date him anymore

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Speaker 8: because he's dating Casey Anthony. It's a public service at

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Speaker 8: this point. You need to know what she's up to.

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Speaker 8: You need to know what she's doing.

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Speaker 2: So you're basically in it for altruistic reasons and you

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Speaker 2: consider it a psa public service announcement.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't see that coming.

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Speaker 2: I give you all the credit for pulling that one

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Speaker 2: out of your well pocket.

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Speaker 1: Rob Dick joining me Casey Anthony's former.

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Speaker 2: Bodyguard, bounty hunter, private investigator, extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: How did you find her?

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Speaker 10: Well, I'd gotten a tip that she was in Tennessee

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Speaker 10: when I was actually there at a conference, and somebody

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Speaker 10: could give me a tip and watch your back.

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Speaker 1: What conference?

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Speaker 10: It was Crime Con twenty twenty four. I was there.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea that I was just so close

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Speaker 2: to top Mom Anthony.

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Speaker 1: So you get a tip and then what happens.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I just happened to look her up to see

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Speaker 10: and then it just kind of all came out from

443
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 10: there and unfolded with you know, her living with this

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00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 10: tyson and looked at that and tried to figure out, well,

445
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Speaker 10: who's this guy? And then they had both come from

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Speaker 10: West Palm so I just kind of all fell together

447
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 10: with him and his wife moving to Murphy's Bruro and

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00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 10: then her following him out there, and then next thing

449
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 10: you know, they both have an apartment together.

450
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 2: So she basically followed this guy from Florida. Okay, speaking

451
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 2: of a quiet life, listen.

452
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 16: A recent article on the life of Casey Anthony claims

453
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 16: the infamous tot Mom leads a solitary life these days.

454
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,959
Speaker 16: In the Peacock series, Anthony reveals she is working as

455
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 16: a research assistant for Patrick McKenna, the lead investigator for

456
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 16: her defense team at trial, and has been on the

457
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 16: job for the last ten plus years, leading a quiet

458
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 16: life in West Palm Beach, Florida. But now news is

459
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 16: breaking that Casey Anthony is having an affair with a

460
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 16: married man and is relocating to Tennessee.

461
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, a solitary life, it doesn't look solitary to me.

462
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 3: The notorious top Mom is dating a father of two.

463
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: She allegedly blew up a twenty two year old marriage

464
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 3: to get him.

465
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, very very curious.

466
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: Gerardo Bloise joining me, former forensic investigator in the murder case,

467
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 2: I'm curious about the forensic evidence you found in top

468
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 2: mom casey Anthony's car explained.

469
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 13: Yeah, in July sixteen, two thousand eight, I was working

470
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 13: at the sheriff's office and one of the detective called

471
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 13: me that they have a vehicle to be processed for

472
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 13: forensics analysis, and they only say to me that was

473
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 13: related to a missing child. So I focused my investigation

474
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 13: of the vehicle, and I'm always looking for for DNA,

475
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 13: any kind of blood, body fluids, and especially heirs. And

476
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 13: also when I start to photograph the vehicle, of the

477
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 13: seal of the vehicle and they went open the driver's side,

478
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 13: a smell immediately decomposition of a human. Decomposition's author. So

479
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 13: I immediately called the detective say hey, look, I have

480
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 13: suspicions of out playing this case. And after that, I

481
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 13: recovered some thirteen years from the trunk. One of them

482
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 13: was positive for mitochondry DNA. That the micro contate DNA

483
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 13: came from the mother's side. So those two species of

484
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 13: evidence are the early examples that we call it the

485
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 13: front the trunk. Because we have two questions in order

486
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 13: to prove that that smele came from a decomposed body.

487
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 13: That was a challenge. The second challenge was that the

488
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 13: one of those hair came from Kayley and the key

489
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 13: was in the trunk, and both analysis from the Tennessee

490
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 13: lab came with the chemicals compound of a decomposed smell,

491
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 13: and the FBI lab came with a positive DNA microconduct

492
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 13: from the mother's side, which is Q twelve that came

493
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 13: positive for DNA.

494
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: Of yeah, you're right, all right, erardau Bloise.

495
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: Because the hair could have only come from three people.

496
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: That would be Cindy Anthony, top Mom, Casey Anthony, or

497
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: baby Kelly. It wasn't Cindy's because Cindy's hair was treated blonde.

498
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: It wasn't top Mom's because her hair also is chemically treated,

499
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 2: which means it could only be one person in the world,

500
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: and that is Kelly Anthony. So top Mom's car smelled

501
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 2: like a dead body in the trunk, and in the

502
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 2: trunk from where the smell emanated.

503
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Is her child's hair. She had her child in the

504
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: trunk of her car.

505
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: So doctor Bethany Marshall we have Gerardo Bloise on today

506
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 2: for a very special reason as a reality check to

507
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: what really happened. And this guy he wants to be

508
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 2: with todt Mont Casey Anthony.

509
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 9: Oh, Nancy, you know he has as serious a corruption

510
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 9: of conscience as she does. Tyson moved his wife out

511
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 9: to Tennessee while he was already having an affair with Casey.

512
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 9: What does that tell you about him? It tells you

513
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 9: that he's evil too. He is not detached, He doesn't

514
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 9: care about his loved ones. He is willing to blow

515
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 9: things up. As you said earlier, Again, people have affairs

516
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 9: not because they're in love with the other person, but

517
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 9: because they're in love with how that other person makes

518
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 9: them feel, I mean, think about it. So she paths

519
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 9: like Casey Anthony. They come across as charming, outgoing, at

520
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 9: the center of things, and so they charm people into thinking,

521
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 9: lull people into thinking that they're sort of at the

522
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 9: pinnacle of things, at the center of things. So he

523
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 9: finds that very gratifying. He's not really putting together in

524
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 9: his mind the gravity of the crime with who he's

525
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 9: sleeping next to. And we've seen this in prison studies

526
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 9: with women who visit men in jail. They'll be in

527
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 9: love with a man, but they'll claim not to know

528
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 9: the nature of the crime, so they refuse to put

529
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 9: their thoughts together about it.

530
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 12: In a recent BuzzFeed News article, the showrunner for Where

531
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 12: the Truth Lies, Alexandra Dean, is quoted as saying Casey

532
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 12: Anthony has a small life with a small circle of

533
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 12: friends and loved ones. Dean says Casey still talks to

534
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 12: her brother and her mother, but not that often. Dean says,

535
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 12: they communicate, but I wouldn't call the relationship close. After

536
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 12: accusing her father, George, of sexually abusing her in her

537
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 12: youth and claiming he killed Kaylee to cover up his

538
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 12: abuse of her, Casey and George Anthony don't communicate with

539
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 12: one another.

540
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,959
Speaker 3: She doesn't care if he's married or not, says a

541
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 3: friend of Casey Anthony. The top Mom saying she's quote

542
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 3: living the life I want.

543
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: And again, I'm not the church lady.

544
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: I don't care who sleeps with who, who does what,

545
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: as long as it's not a felony. Herm is the same,

546
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: her modus operandi, method of operation, same thing all over again.

547
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 2: Go from one man to the next to the next

548
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: to the next exclusion her mother.

549
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: She did to her mother.

550
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 2: Too, Squeeze everything you can out of them, lie through

551
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: your teeth to get what you want, and then move

552
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: on with me.

553
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: An all star panel.

554
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: To make sense of what we know right now, first,

555
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: take a listen to Holden Zapple crime online dot Com.

556
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 16: In her most recent move Casey Anthony has uprooted her

557
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 16: life in Florida to be with her new man in Tennessee,

558
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 16: who is married for twenty two years and has two

559
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 16: young adult sons. One of Anthony's friends tells the New

560
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 16: York Posts once accused murderer doesn't care if he's married

561
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 16: or not, saying all she knows is that he makes

562
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 16: her feel good and she likes that. She was willing

563
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 16: to follow him to Tennessee. She sees a future with him.

564
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, ronoun psychoalyst, did I just hear the

565
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 2: words she uprooted her life?

566
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: What life? I mean? The no job, no anything up route?

567
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: What this is?

568
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 9: One of the core features of sociopathy is that the

569
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 9: person wants to suck the life out of everyone around them.

570
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 9: That's her only most She doesn't have time to go

571
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 9: to the library, get a degree, read a book, make friends.

572
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 9: She is taking advantage of everyone around her. She will

573
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 9: take advantage of Tyson too, probably as much as he

574
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 9: is taking advantage of her.

575
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: You know, Raymond Judice, did you hear earlier that she's

576
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: portrayed of having a quote small life and a quote

577
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: solitary life. What this sounds like a bond or a

578
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 2: sentencing hearing where the lawyer just drones on and on

579
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 2: and on about how awesome their client.

580
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: You'd think it was a nun appraised or a virgin.

581
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: It ain't.

582
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: Okay, she is not at home tonight where the doors

583
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: locked and the shades pull sipping hot co co, reading

584
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 2: more and peace. Okay, that's not what's happening. So the

585
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: way that criminal defendants can change, they're like chameleons, and

586
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: they can't present in a way.

587
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: That is entirely different than what they really are.

588
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 11: They're like water flowing down the side of a mountain.

589
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 13: Nancy.

590
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 11: If they hit a rock, they go around it. When

591
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 11: they come to the tree route, they go under it.

592
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 11: They adapt, they learn. I've had many clients that I

593
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 11: would say to them, you know, if you've just taken

594
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 11: the time to apply all of your scheming and your

595
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 11: manipulation and your energy to getting a college degree or

596
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 11: opening a business, you'd probably be very successful in their

597
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:04,959
Speaker 11: own weird way. Some criminals are absolutely brilliant, and I

598
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 11: think she is convinced Casey Anthony is convinced that she is.

599
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 11: But she is consistently rewarded. She never pays the consequences

600
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 11: as everybody's pointed out for her manipulative behavior. I want

601
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 11: to one quick legal thing. Should there be a divorce

602
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 11: in a state of Tennessee, the infidelity of this gentleman,

603
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 11: his wife is going to be compensated with alimony and

604
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 11: any resources from the family assets that he uses to

605
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 11: party with Kathy Antony, take her out, vacations, hotels, gifts

606
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 11: that can be given to the wife in a proportionate

607
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 11: financial manner. Unfortunately, Tennessee does not have the old alienation

608
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 11: of affections lawsuit. A handful of states still have that

609
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 11: that allow a spouse to sue the intervening boyfriend girlfriends alienation.

610
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: Does Florida have it? Alienation of effections?

611
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 7: It?

612
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: Does Florida have that?

613
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 11: No Florida North Tennessee have it. Very few states have anymore.

614
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 17: I just looked it goes back because there have been

615
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 17: major cases where the mistress or the lover was sued

616
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 17: and had actions brought against them for alienation of affections.

617
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 2: You know, I'm just thinking, you know a lot of

618
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 2: people put irreconcilable differences.

619
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: She's just gonna write tot mom, blew up my life.

620
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this.

621
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 12: The now thirty eight year old tot mom meets her

622
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 12: latest conquest at the South Florida gym where they both

623
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 12: work out. Tyson Ray Rhoads, an engineer for an aerospace company,

624
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 12: and his wife of twenty two years, moved from South

625
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 12: Florida to Tennessee at the beginning of the year. Casey,

626
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 12: Anthony and Rhodes have been spotted together at n upscale

627
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 12: Tennessee apartment complex getting into roads truck, each wearing workout clothes.

628
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 3: The infamous mother charged and acquitted in her year old

629
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 3: daughter's death. Is she's stirring up trouble again?

630
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: Steve Helling joining us from the New York Post. I

631
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 2: understand that she's living in a luxury apartment near the family.

632
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: Home where I guess the wife is still living. Who's

633
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: paying for that?

634
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 8: Well, you know, we don't see the records, but I

635
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 8: can tell you that he was part of her finding

636
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 8: this place and knowing that she doesn't make a whole

637
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 8: lot of money. I don't know how she can afford

638
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 8: it without his help. It doesn't make any sense.

639
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: Are you telling me Tonom has a job?

640
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 8: Well, okay, we'll put job in quotation marks. She she

641
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 8: does research work remotely for her for her former private investigator.

642
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: Why are you actually saying that with a straight face?

643
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: She does what remotely?

644
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 8: I'm trying, experiency, I'm trying. That's what she has always

645
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 8: said is what she does for a living. I don't

646
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 8: know how she's made.

647
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:58,959
Speaker 1: She was a photographer.

648
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, well she had case photography in South Florida

649
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 8: that you know. She never even filed the paperwork to

650
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 8: keep it going for a second.

651
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry, you're making my head hurt.

652
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: So all right, all right, okay, working remotely taking pictures?

653
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: So no job, got it. You know what.

654
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: Amazes me about this, It's just the same thing over

655
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: and over. And you know, Raymond again, you know, I

656
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 2: don't give a flying fig who sleeps with who or

657
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: what they do.

658
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: Don't care.

659
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: But what disturbs me is that over and over we

660
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 2: see criminal defense in this case of killer have the

661
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 2: same pattern. And at some point you'd think it would

662
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 2: break right, that the enablers would fall away, but they don't.

663
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 18: People just keep getting used and used and used. And

664
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 18: it's what happened then and it's what's happening now. And

665
00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 18: I find it incredibly curious. It's like I'm looking at,

666
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 18: you know, a tarantula or a poisonous snake in a

667
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 18: glass box.

668
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: I don't understand how it works. How does she keep

669
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 1: doing it right?

670
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 11: And not only does she find the weak link, but

671
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 11: here's a fellow that marriage, healthy children, assumably a good job,

672
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 11: a family, reputation in his community, and no offense to Steve.

673
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 11: But this gentleman is now in the New York Post

674
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 11: link to Casey Anthony. I mean, there's got to be

675
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 11: somebody else to date, you know, go to the church,

676
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 11: join a club. There are other nice people out there

677
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 11: that But you know, I worked for an old country

678
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 11: lawyer when I was a baby lawyer, and he had

679
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 11: a great expression and it went like this water finds

680
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 11: its own level.

681
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: Doctor Anthony Marshall helped me out here. Again. I'm not

682
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: worried about this guy.

683
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: He's old enough to know better and what judu Ja

684
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: just said about water seeking its own level. But I

685
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 2: somehow doubt that he has ever been charged with murder.

686
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: I still don't understand the fascination.

687
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: I mean, ladies out there, men out there, when you

688
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 2: find somebody's been charged with even if they escaped murder charges,

689
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 2: please run. The other way is if you had seen

690
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 2: a monster.

691
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: I still don't understand this attraction.

692
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: And the whole reason that we're discussing this today is

693
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: not because she's sleeping with a married man who cares.

694
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: That's his problem and his wife's problem, but it's the

695
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: fact that criminals continue.

696
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 2: They're like vampire or sucking the blood out of innocent victims.

697
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: And I just don't get the attraction.

698
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 9: Yes they do, Nancy, but sometimes they find somebody just

699
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 9: like them. And I think we're being too easy on

700
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 9: this guy. I mean, he has blown up a twenty

701
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 9: two your marriage. He is with the very infamous person

702
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 9: who's going to have an impact on his two sons lives.

703
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 9: They're going to read about it in the news. He

704
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 9: has to ignore that in order to be with her.

705
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 9: And I don't think she's powerful enough to manipulate a

706
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 9: man with a wife and two children into thinking something

707
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 9: that he already doesn't want to think. And at the

708
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 9: beginning of a relationship, Nancy, two people usually idealize each

709
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 9: other for the first six or seven months. That's how

710
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 9: relationships get started. They don't see the flaw in the

711
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 9: other person. In fact, they see the other person as

712
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 9: having the potential to meet the unmet needs that they

713
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 9: had from the relationship before. So let's say, if he

714
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 9: feels that his relationship is devitalized or not that exciting

715
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 9: or blah blah blah, he's going to see Casey of

716
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 9: Anthony as having the potential to fill that need for him. However,

717
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 9: within six or seven months, all the idealization will drop

718
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 9: away and he'll have to see her for who she

719
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 9: truly is.

720
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: I don't care about their moral issues.

721
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: I'm interested in this from a criminal law point of view.

722
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: And another thing you mentioned is two children their adult sons.

723
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: Once you have children, I think part of your duty

724
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 2: is that you behave in a way you want them

725
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 2: to behave. I mean, the people that I want to

726
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: impress the most are John, David and Lucy, and that's

727
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: who I want to impress. And I just wonder how

728
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 2: this affects his adult children. I mean, I already know

729
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: how it's affected his wife. But second first same as

730
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 2: the first. Top mom Kasey n added acid. Nancy Gray

731
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 2: signing off goodbye friend,