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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha all Frome stuff, never

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Speaker 1: told your prediction by Her Radio.

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Speaker 2: And I'm back picking my favorite BRIDGID episode. As we

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Speaker 2: have said, there's so many to choose from, but I

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Speaker 2: feel like sometimes our episodes in Bridget's episode just sync

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Speaker 2: up so perfectly that I get really overly excited when

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Speaker 2: she brings her topics. And this one was specifically about

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Speaker 2: the publication EV Magazine, So the title is the Radical

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Speaker 2: Extremist Ideology of EV Magazine. And if you've listened to

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Speaker 2: our spiritual Trauma episodes or religious trauma episodes, you know

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Speaker 2: why because unfortunately they really missed up my algorithm. So

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Speaker 2: I had to bring that back as a classic as

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite BRIDGID episodes of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: So again, please enjoy this wonderful classic.

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Speaker 4: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff.

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Speaker 1: I never told your production by Heart Radio, and today

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Speaker 1: we are once again so happy to be joined by

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Speaker 1: the wonderful, the outstanding Bridget Todd.

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Speaker 5: Welcome Bridget, thank you for having me so excited to

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Speaker 5: be back. Before we started recording, we were reminiscing about

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Speaker 5: our local malls, and now I have like Mall or

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Speaker 5: Mall Madness.

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Speaker 6: It's like nostalgia overload.

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Speaker 3: Looks.

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Speaker 2: We actually Annie bought me that game because it was

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Speaker 2: one of my childhood games, Mall Madness, and we've talked

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Speaker 2: about we have to play this game. I realized I

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Speaker 2: do not remember a play. When we opened it, I

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Speaker 2: was like, wait, what we have to buy things? I

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Speaker 2: know that, but how do you buy things? Sometimes you

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Speaker 2: can use cash and sometimes you get declined. I don't remember, Bridget.

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Speaker 3: You should come down. We'll have a game night.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I'll bring dream Phone. That was my game, so

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Speaker 6: you have dream Home.

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Speaker 2: I have a blind date because any purchase that we

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Speaker 2: need to do that the mom. Okay, come down, sweep.

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Speaker 2: I have a Sweet Balley High game and a Babysitters game.

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Speaker 6: Come on, I'm very much the evening of my dreams.

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Speaker 4: Listen. I just have to brag, Bridget. I won our

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Speaker 4: dated game twice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we played a blind date together and I was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what's happening, but she ended up winning.

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Speaker 5: Is it a game of strategy or like skill or

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Speaker 5: sort of like luck?

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Speaker 4: Wait, Samantha, no strategy.

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Speaker 7: No.

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Speaker 1: I realized that this guy didn't like football, so maybe

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Speaker 1: he would be into this character.

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Speaker 4: I think they should update it so you can have

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Speaker 4: queer characters.

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Speaker 6: That's my I bet they.

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Speaker 2: Have an update, have we I don't know if we'd

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Speaker 2: locked by that. We talked about all of the old

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Speaker 2: games that were very gendered and the ones that we remembered,

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Speaker 2: but like us, things like mal Madness really popped up.

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Speaker 2: My brother actually really enjoyed that game too, but he

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Speaker 2: wouldn't admit it. But every time he see me pull

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Speaker 2: it out and I would play by myself, Yes I

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Speaker 2: was that kid, uh, he would ask to join me.

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Speaker 7: Sometimes.

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Speaker 1: There's something to be said about the games that were

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Speaker 1: coming out at that time that had like the very

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Speaker 1: specific technology that could be used for nothing else.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, like dream phone, like the I'm going far back

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Speaker 5: into the recesses of my memory here so might not

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Speaker 5: be totally right, but it came with like a clunky

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Speaker 5: plastic phone, yes, that you would put to your ear

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Speaker 5: and it would be like he's not wearing a hat

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Speaker 5: and he would figure out like, whoo, who had a

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Speaker 5: crush on you?

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Speaker 6: Based on like what this phone would tell you. I

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Speaker 6: think so the brand.

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Speaker 3: Girls talk who did that?

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Speaker 2: The date one, as well as truth or Dare like

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Speaker 2: that was their brand. They also had like magus I believe,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, they they made sure to capitalize on only

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Speaker 2: their games. Oh many a.

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Speaker 6: Real like gendered media empire.

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Speaker 7: Was it was.

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Speaker 2: But so you know that is that conversation we've had repeatedly,

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Speaker 2: like all the industries that if they specifically go after

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Speaker 2: women most of the times or young girls, they know

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Speaker 2: as a moneymaker. If we talked about that as like

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Speaker 2: with games, and we actually talked about that with magazines too.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's actually a perfect segue into what I

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Speaker 5: want to talk about. And by the way, like I

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Speaker 5: didn't even connect this, but I was a voracious reader

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Speaker 5: of magazine, any kind of girl magazine in the nineties

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Speaker 5: I was getting. I got all of them. I also

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Speaker 5: loved a good catalog. I still have Delia's catalogs and

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Speaker 5: I thumbed through like it was a real like time

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Speaker 5: to be a girl who liked to consume media. And

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Speaker 5: something that I find really interesting is the way that

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Speaker 5: today those same like media spaces can really be used

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Speaker 5: to expose women to ideology that you might not even

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Speaker 5: like on the face, really recognize. We talked a little

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Speaker 5: bit about this in the episode that you and I

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Speaker 5: all did with about Candice on how she is so

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Speaker 5: good at using like a political conversations about celebrity to

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Speaker 5: really radicalize women. And in that same vein we have

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Speaker 5: to talk about this magazine called EV Magazine. I think

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Speaker 5: you have you all what's what's your familiarity with EV?

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Speaker 2: Right? So when I saw this was coming to our conversations,

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Speaker 2: at first I was like, wait, why does this look familiar?

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Speaker 2: And then I realized in our ten to twenty part

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Speaker 2: episode of Religious Trauma and Women that we actually used

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Speaker 2: some of their publication and it was one of those

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Speaker 2: as I was like, because I was not familiar when

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Speaker 2: I first pulled up into this article. We were talking

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Speaker 2: about you know, purity culture and sexuality and women and

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Speaker 2: all of these things within Christianity, especially Western Christianity, and

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Speaker 2: it was this whole like bed. It was twisting the

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Speaker 2: narrative a little bit about like, you know, people being

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Speaker 2: too sexualized has really really gone away from us and

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Speaker 2: made it so over the top that is no longer

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Speaker 2: enjoyable or da da da, And at first You're like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this could make sense, and then as I read more

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Speaker 2: and more, like wait, who is this publication?

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Speaker 3: And it's EVY and I went through it was like,

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Speaker 3: oh oh, this is oh wow.

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Speaker 2: They really have dug deep in this whole like relevance

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Speaker 2: culture within Christianity to bring out something that doesn't feel

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Speaker 2: like like it's preaching on you, but it has an agenda.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, wow, So we were familiar because

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Speaker 2: in that same like of course, we wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: about that conversation. So I had to give a caveat

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Speaker 2: to our listeners be like, hey, so this publication is

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Speaker 2: specifically very Christian oriented and it's published by very conservative

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Speaker 2: people and they don't you don't know that until much

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Speaker 2: later into reading things in here. So that's how I

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, so we used them before. They're an

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Speaker 2: interesting publication.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and what you just described is really part and

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Speaker 5: parcel of the experience of reading ev online.

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Speaker 6: You know, you might be like, oh, well this is

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Speaker 6: this is a reasonable take, like oh, I agree with that,

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Speaker 6: and then.

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Speaker 5: You're like, wait a minute, this is actually I'm not

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Speaker 5: so sure. Let's take a look at like who is

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Speaker 5: behind this publication and they're what they're about. So this

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Speaker 5: whole conversation comes off the heels of a really media

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Speaker 5: profile with the founder of ev magazine in the New

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Speaker 5: York Times. So a lot of what I'm going to

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Speaker 5: be talking about comes from that piece by Katie j

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Speaker 5: and Baker. If you've not seen ev Evie is a

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Speaker 5: I guess a women's media outlet. If you have seen

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Speaker 5: their content on the internet, you probably think of it

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Speaker 5: as a publication that focuses on pop culture wellness and

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Speaker 5: relationships for a female audience. But it has a distinct

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Speaker 5: conservative perspective that Samantha, as you rightly clocked, might not

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Speaker 5: be so obvious at first glance.

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Speaker 6: And this is a problem.

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Speaker 5: I'll get sort of more into why, I'm sure in

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Speaker 5: this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and this was something we were Smith and I

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Speaker 1: were just discussing about how there's all these like back

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Speaker 1: doors into getting radicalized, like content that you think, oh,

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Speaker 1: cyoga content, and then it's got this other thing it's

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Speaker 1: like lures you in.

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Speaker 4: So it's important.

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Speaker 1: To look into, Okay, what what is the agenda?

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Speaker 4: Who is behind it?

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Speaker 1: So can you tell us bridget a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about those things.

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Speaker 6: Yes.

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Speaker 5: So Evie was founded by a husband wife duo, thirty

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Speaker 5: three year old Brittany Hugo Boom with her husband Gabriel.

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Speaker 5: They describe it as a kind of anti Cosmo magazine.

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Speaker 5: They said they want to be the one stop shop

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Speaker 5: for femininity. That's from Hugo Boom, who is the public

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Speaker 5: face of the business. How the story of how EV

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Speaker 5: came to be in the world as a kind of

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Speaker 5: a familiar one for anybody who has ever shouted a

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Speaker 5: magazine or wanted to, you know, publish something. Brittany said

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Speaker 5: that she was a model for brands like Adidas, and

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Speaker 5: during that time she loved fashion and she loved pop

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Speaker 5: culture magazines like ll.

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Speaker 6: This was in the twenty tens, and that was, you.

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Speaker 5: Know, as somebody who was a voracious reader of women's media,

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Speaker 5: Like it was just a particular time for women's media,

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Speaker 5: especially online. You had sites like Jess Bell and The

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Speaker 5: Cut that were these explicitly feminist spaces that also did

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Speaker 5: a lot of coverage on like pop culture, women's health,

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Speaker 5: and politics. So like the women's media ecosystem at that

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Speaker 5: time really did a good job of blending feminism with

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Speaker 5: pop culture and politics. But Britney really felt overlooked by

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Speaker 5: this kind of coverage. She said that she had a

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Speaker 5: hard time finding positive coverage in this in this media

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Speaker 5: climate about things like traditional marriage and motherhood. I will

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Speaker 5: pause there and say, like, I don't want to discount

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Speaker 5: Britney's experience. I feel like in the twenty tens, I

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Speaker 5: read a lot of content about motherhood and marriage.

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Speaker 6: Like I don't know if.

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Speaker 5: We were coming up in the same media ecosystem, I

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Speaker 5: will just say, like my personal experiences that I do

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Speaker 5: think there's a lot of coverage about marriage out there.

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Speaker 5: I don't think that that's like a third rail topic

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Speaker 5: that is not being discussed in the culture. But that's

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Speaker 5: what Brittany says anyway. So thus the idea for ev

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Speaker 5: magazine was born. A stylish publication rooted in celebrating quote femininity.

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Speaker 6: This is from the New York Times quote.

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Speaker 5: It would be as escapist and aspirational as any other

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Speaker 5: mainstream women's magazine except Evie covers girls who would not

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Speaker 5: be politicians in power suits, but the type of women

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Speaker 5: who might compete in beauty pageants two weeks after giving

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Speaker 5: birth to their eighth child, which their most recent cover girl,

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Speaker 5: Utah influencer Hannah Nielman aka Ballerina Farm actually did.

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Speaker 6: The magazine's name is a riff.

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Speaker 5: I'm a first woman in the Bible quote Eve screwed

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Speaker 5: the world, Hugo Boom said, and this is a new

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Speaker 5: Eve who will save the world. So if you're talking

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Speaker 5: some like pretty deep religious vibes on that one, that

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Speaker 5: you would be right.

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Speaker 2: I I am not, okay. So I figured out finally

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Speaker 2: where that where we used it, and it was actually

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Speaker 2: for our women in magazine. We were talking about that earlier,

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Speaker 2: about how how how I'd mentioned like gender things such

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Speaker 2: as women's magazines really made a lot of money and

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Speaker 2: realizing after they started like the Housewife magazine, they jumped

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Speaker 2: into young girl magazines and teaching them how to be

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Speaker 2: wives and partners and such. But even magazine was in

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Speaker 2: that conversation because they do they talk about the whole

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Speaker 2: level of like have we over sexualized girls so much

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Speaker 2: that we are causing young girls to have complexes in

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Speaker 2: not being sexual enough like all of these things, which

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Speaker 2: is like, you know, sometimes we do need that conversation about.

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Speaker 3: Having balance in this. And then again, like I said,

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Speaker 3: I was like, wait, this sounds like a great idea, and.

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Speaker 2: Then you start looking at the ads and then you

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Speaker 2: start reading more into it, and the ads were like

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Speaker 2: return to femininity, and I was like, oh, oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: which sounds like the whole level of like, we're going

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Speaker 2: to correct the evils of women by making you real feminine.

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Speaker 3: But when we say feminine we mean submissive.

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Speaker 2: But it is something that we have to credit them

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Speaker 2: that they're making they understand what makes money.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, when I read that New York Times profile,

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Speaker 5: I was really struck by how savvy they were, how

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Speaker 5: media savvy they were, how smart they were, like in

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Speaker 5: terms of business decisions, fair right on the money. I

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Speaker 5: don't happen to like or agree with the ideology they push,

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Speaker 5: but in terms of like do they have the potential

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Speaker 5: to make a lot.

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Speaker 6: Of money, I think the answer is yes.

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Speaker 5: And Sam, you really cock something that it's even difficult

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Speaker 5: to really parse. But I think that one of the

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Speaker 5: reasons why they found some success is that they do

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Speaker 5: speak to issues that are like they like they kind

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Speaker 5: of have a point in some ways, right, Like it

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Speaker 5: is a totally valid conversation to say, like, oh, well,

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Speaker 5: you know, in a climate where women are told that

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Speaker 5: it's good to be sex positive and like it's good

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Speaker 5: to like, you know, embrace your sexuality, which is all great,

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Speaker 5: What does that what does that do to like younger

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Speaker 5: women and girls is it impacting them in a negative way.

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Speaker 5: These are great questions to ask, and I'm happy that

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Speaker 5: people are asking them, and like the kind of work

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Speaker 5: that you all do here on Sminty's is a great

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Speaker 5: example of that. But the way that EV takes this

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Speaker 5: like reasonable conversation and then like completely goes to the

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Speaker 5: extreme with it. And that's why you should really be

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Speaker 5: getting involved in like purity culture, and that's why your

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Speaker 5: real value as a woman is about like you know,

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Speaker 5: who you give yourself to. Like, like it almost kind

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Speaker 5: of swings back around this incredibly rigid understanding of women

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Speaker 5: and girls, and so the way that they're able to

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Speaker 5: really occupy that space of like, well, this is a

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Speaker 5: reasonable question, but then take it so far afield that

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Speaker 5: you're like, well, that is not a reasonable conclusion.

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Speaker 1: I think it's savvy that they did hone in on Hey,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know we can be like feminism is

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Speaker 1: bad and here's why, Like they also did that where

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Speaker 1: they're like, okay, by being feminists, what you're saying is

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Speaker 1: you're anti woman. Then it's just like a whole mind honestly.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, some of the positions that are advocated for in

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Speaker 5: EV are just like very extreme when it comes to

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Speaker 5: women and girls, right, like, you know, things.

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Speaker 6: Like women shouldn't it's not it's not.

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Speaker 5: Good for women to be working things like that, things

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Speaker 5: that are like anybody would look at that and be like, well,

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Speaker 5: that is a very extreme perspective. This is what dislikes

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Speaker 5: Glossy Poppy magazine is advocating for right and it's just

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Speaker 5: like a very very conservative and traditional perspective on gender

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Speaker 5: to the point of being, in my opinion extreme. Hears

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Speaker 5: a little bit from the piece, they say, Evie sees

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Speaker 5: themselves as an opposition to what they've called modern feminism.

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Speaker 5: Femininity does not mean feminism, which Hugo Boom doesn't define

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Speaker 5: as equal rights, but as a self hating movement that

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Speaker 5: is anti family and anti male, one that shames women

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Speaker 5: who choose conventional roles. Despite running two companies, she's particularly

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Speaker 5: critical of what she calls girl boss feminism.

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Speaker 6: Her interpretation of that.

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Speaker 5: Term, which went from broadly celebrated to roundly dismissed in

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Speaker 5: the twenty tens, is that it encourages women to be

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Speaker 5: just like men to succeed in corporate fields. Such messaging,

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Speaker 5: she says, has made women anxious, lonely, and unfulfilled.

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Speaker 6: Instead, she believes faith's.

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Speaker 5: Family and love, not casual sex, careerism ideological activism supply

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Speaker 5: the greatest satisfaction.

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Speaker 6: So exactly what you just said, Annie, Like.

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Speaker 5: It's these attitudes that say that they are meant to

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Speaker 5: celebrate women, but then what they're actually the actual conclusion

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Speaker 5: is incredibly anti women, right Like, And notice how they

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Speaker 5: put that, you know, ideological activism. No, no, no, that's not

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Speaker 5: gonna make women happy, Like okay, so I shouldn't advocate

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Speaker 5: for things I believe and got it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you can just see how quickly this turns

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Speaker 2: into anti Trians narrative that fear of being erasing women,

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Speaker 2: which is a whole kind of laughable thing is like

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Speaker 2: feminism is in itself is like embracing women, like being

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Speaker 2: acknowledged as women as a person as well as trans

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Speaker 2: women are women, so they're being women.

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Speaker 7: So how is that a rasure?

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Speaker 2: Like there's so many like this level of like almost irony,

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Speaker 2: but that it works. And I don't know because the

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Speaker 2: few pieces, like I said, I read, they're very like

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Speaker 2: subtle about it. They don't want to come out full

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Speaker 2: force of showing that they are very very conservative because

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Speaker 2: they are trying to bring in all those leaders kind

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Speaker 2: of that same level of like when we talk about

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Speaker 2: yoga and crunching life turning into being conservative as well

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Speaker 2: as like the chadlife, because the initial idea is the aesthetic,

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Speaker 2: which this magazine has that esthetic totally.

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Speaker 5: And I mean this is a little bit of a

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Speaker 5: non sequitur, but I personally have to be real careful

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Speaker 5: because like I am someone who cares a lot about nutrition, right,

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Speaker 5: Like I am right now trying to you know, up

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Speaker 5: my physical health through nutrition and exercise. I when you

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Speaker 5: are like searching Instagram or TikTok for that kind of content,

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Speaker 5: the way algorithms are like, oh, oh you like nutrition, huh, well,

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Speaker 5: how would you like some? And then it's just extremist rhetoric,

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Speaker 5: extremist rhetoric, extremist rhetoric. So like I have to be

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Speaker 5: really careful because like I do care about nutrition, and

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Speaker 5: it definitely these algorithms clocked it. If like that is

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Speaker 5: an interest of yours. We need to be surfacing you

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Speaker 5: up ever increasing extreme content and like next thing, you know,

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Speaker 5: it's like and then certainly you're anti vacts and then

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Speaker 5: certainly you're anti trans It's like whoa I'm just trying to,

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Speaker 5: you know, get more protein in my diet.

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Speaker 2: And relax, right, I just want to like be healthy.

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Speaker 2: I don't, I don't know what would just happened.

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Speaker 6: I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't need you to tell me that all these chemicals,

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Speaker 2: which are just nutrients are killing me.

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Speaker 3: What's happening exactly. I think they really landed.

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Speaker 2: On something with these pages, though, that they are able

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Speaker 2: to use what we kind of always have seen, Like

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Speaker 2: the magazines in general have always been about teaching girls

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Speaker 2: to be better some or that you're not good enough.

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Speaker 2: You're not if you want to hit these goals, this

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Speaker 2: is what you need to do. And EV's like that

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Speaker 2: perfect layout for that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And I think that especially, you know, it doesn't surprise

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Speaker 5: me that the founder of EV really sees herself as

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Speaker 5: in opposition to like the girl boss era of the

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Speaker 5: twenty tens, and I think was really serving women, women

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Speaker 5: like myself, who were looking for something and they and

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Speaker 5: I think this kind of girl boss feminism filled that

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Speaker 5: gap and tried to be like, well, is what you're

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Speaker 5: looking for? A corner office and lots of money, because

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Speaker 5: like here's you could have that, and I this is

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Speaker 5: where I have to say, like, I kind of agree

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Speaker 5: with what's hugo Woman a little bit. I think that

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Speaker 5: like in the twenty tens, feminism and the conversation around women,

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Speaker 5: and like our liberation really got co opted by this

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Speaker 5: kind of lean in Girl Boss Vibe, where wealthy white

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Speaker 5: women were really given the mic and they used that

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Speaker 5: Mica tell that like, liberation was having a corner office,

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Speaker 5: kicking butt at work, having the money to pay someone

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Speaker 5: else to watch.

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Speaker 6: Your kids while you slay in the boardroom.

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Speaker 5: Blah blah blah blah blah, and that was really empty.

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Speaker 6: And I think ten.

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Speaker 5: Years later, I would argue that we are still reeling

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Speaker 5: and feeling the fallout from how empty of a promise

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Speaker 5: of liberation that ended up being. But I think nothing

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Speaker 5: has really stepped in to fill that gap. And so

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Speaker 5: then you have media outlets like Evie responding to this

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Speaker 5: actual need in a marginalized community, a community of women,

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Speaker 5: saying like, Okay, well, kicking butt at work did not

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Speaker 5: really lead to liberation, so what will you know. There

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Speaker 5: is a truism about extremist content that, like they are

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Speaker 5: so good at identifying existing actual gaps that people need

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Speaker 5: filled and then filling those gaps with their ideological content.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny that when you read and see this

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Speaker 2: level of cyclical actions, like the way you've been told

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Speaker 2: so hard, it kind of is that layer of like

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Speaker 2: us not looking at what society has done to us

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Speaker 2: in general, and telling us the only way you can

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Speaker 2: succeed is you have to give one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: percent of yourself to this, and if you don't, you fail.

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Speaker 2: Your failure is on you because you didn't try hard enough.

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Speaker 2: But you can't be called successful until you get these markers.

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Speaker 2: And these markers are the standard by society and capitalism.

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Speaker 2: So this is what it is. And if you are successful,

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Speaker 2: either you're going to be penalized in one way or another,

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Speaker 2: being told that you are greedy or over the top

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Speaker 2: or two ambitious, or you're going to be penalized because

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Speaker 2: we're you're going to fail in this moment and saying

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Speaker 2: that you doing these things has made you obnoxious and

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Speaker 2: impossible be around. Like it's such a context, but it's

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Speaker 2: the setup of society in that level. But at the

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Speaker 2: same time, as you were saying, like grifters and those alike,

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Speaker 2: social media have realized, hmm, we need to come back

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Speaker 2: around because people are starting to really get frustrated because

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Speaker 2: they can't hit that mark and they're exhausted.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I in that I completely agree with everything

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Speaker 5: that you've just said. And in that climate, I can

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Speaker 5: understand why a publication like EV telling women like, listen,

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Speaker 5: aren't you exhausted? Just check out of this whole thing altogether,

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Speaker 5: Like just get married, leave your job, have kids, let

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Speaker 5: him work, let him figure it all out, and you

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Speaker 5: just rich reak from public life like that is ultimately,

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Speaker 5: what I think that EVE is telling an entire generation

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Speaker 5: of women is that you should only exist in the domestic.

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Speaker 5: And I don't want to discount the fact that there's

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Speaker 5: real power in the domestic for women like that, that

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Speaker 5: there is power in that, no shame in that at all.

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Speaker 5: But I think that what they're saying is like, women

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Speaker 5: don't belong in workplaces, women don't belong in boardrooms, women

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Speaker 5: don't belong in civic and public life.

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Speaker 6: And that's simply not true.

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Speaker 5: And so I think that EVE is setting up this

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Speaker 5: alternative of like, instead of all of those things that

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Speaker 5: exhaust us as women, why not embrace these soft things,

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Speaker 5: have a soft life, Like I'm sure you've seen that

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Speaker 5: kind of content all over your TikTok, right, And I

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Speaker 5: think google Boom says this pretty much explicitly in this piece.

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Speaker 5: She says, I think more women want to soft life,

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Speaker 5: a beautiful life than feeling all this pressure to do

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Speaker 5: all these things.

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Speaker 6: And I can't help but really see that as.

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Speaker 5: In opposition to the reality that you just laid out,

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Speaker 5: Sam that like, yeah, it does. It is hard to

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Speaker 5: deal with all of these pressures to you know, be

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Speaker 5: ambitious but not too ambitious, make money but not too

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Speaker 5: much money.

440
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 6: Work.

441
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 5: But then it's a lot I like, I'm I really

442
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 5: deeply do understand why this kind of attitude and message

443
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 5: is very enticing, especially right now in a time of

444
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 5: like uncertainty and chaos and rising costs and things like that.

445
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: Oh and you actually pulled out something that I was

446
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: trying to look into for a Monday many I don't

447
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 2: have enough information, but the whole like the soft life

448
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: transitioning into red pill and content and what that looks like.

449
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,719
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, there it is, but I like,

450
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: there's not. We're still on the cusp of understanding it.

451
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 2: Like people are recognizing that as a sign like this

452
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: is that same like trail that happened again with the

453
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 2: crunchy lifestyle slash natural lifestyle slash yoga lifestyle into red

454
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: pill content. That soft life is that same level. If

455
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 2: you start watching who is to pulling it out and

456
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: who's talking about the most, you're like, oh, but it's

457
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 2: such an interesting level because it does offer you something

458
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 2: like is it the dream for me to not have

459
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 2: to work at all and worry about things and sit

460
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 2: and watch k dramas all day and maybe go out

461
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: to do some zumba and yoga. Yeah, have maybe someone

462
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 2: cooked for me instead of me cooking myself all the

463
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 2: nasty foods that I'm like, I'm just gonna snack today,

464
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: Like that level of like comfort of like this ideal

465
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 2: that used to be the way, but which is not

466
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 2: true at all. Because again, when we have a conversation

467
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: about like the good old days when the men weren't

468
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 2: and the women got to stay at home, and women

469
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: being like, yeah, I'd rather be at home too if

470
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: everything was equal, But that's not the case. And as

471
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 2: you said before, like people who are in the domestic life,

472
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 2: who are stay at home moms, it's a hard job.

473
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 6: It's hard. That's not a soft life. That's like, have

474
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 6: you ever been.

475
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 5: Around toddlers people who are raising toddlers and not getting

476
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 5: a break from it because they don't do any wage

477
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 5: earning work outside of the house.

478
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 6: They're not living a soft life.

479
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 2: No, in God forbid they have any kind of medical

480
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 2: needs or if they have like school needs. You have

481
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 2: to be at all these activities constantly, and you have

482
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 2: to show up to do like at volunteering there what

483
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 2: dear God.

484
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 5: So this is that is exactly that is exactly my

485
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 5: main beef with Evy, Right, they are selling women a lie,

486
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 5: a fantasy where we're in retreating from public life and

487
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 5: just like existing in the domestic, is this soft, easy

488
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 5: moneyed fantasy the kind of life that women should be after.

489
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 5: But as you said, one staying at home as a

490
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 5: companion sometimes and it's not soft and glamorous at all,

491
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 5: even like the people who perform treadwife on Instagram probably

492
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 5: like like you never see those women cleaning toilets or

493
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 5: cleaning baby puke off of their shirt, which is sometimes

494
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 5: the reality of staying at home. But in addition to that,

495
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 5: not working, not making or managing your own money, not

496
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 5: participating in civic and public life is not a recipe

497
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 5: for safety and security. It is incredibly risky to the

498
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 5: people that do this. The data is incredibly clear that

499
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 5: when women stop working, whether they have a kid or

500
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 5: they're a caretaker for somebody and they leave the workforce,

501
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 5: when they re enter the workforce, they are.

502
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 6: Going to make a lot less.

503
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 5: So if and when they do go back to work,

504
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 5: the data is super clear they're going to be making

505
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 5: less right. And so if you don't work or never work,

506
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 5: and you just depend on your partner for everything, what

507
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 5: happens if your partner passes away, what happens if the

508
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,479
Speaker 5: partner becomes disabled or sick and they can't work. There

509
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 5: are so many ways that this life is incredibly risky

510
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 5: and insecure, And the content would have you believe like, Oh,

511
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 5: this is going to be soft and glamorous and lovely.

512
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 5: I wouldn't even have a problem with this kind of content.

513
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 6: So much if it told women the truth.

514
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 5: If it was like, hey, don't work, but also put

515
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 5: away a little money for yourself, or don't work, but

516
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 5: make sure that you keep an eye on your finances

517
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 5: and understand them in case something happens. Like if they

518
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 5: were more realistic and honest about the life that they

519
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 5: are selling. I wouldn't even have a big problem with them.

520
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 5: But they are not doing that. They're selling a very

521
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 5: enticing but dangerous lie.

522
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: Yes, and as we've been mentioning throughout, they're doing it

523
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: in a way that at first you don't realize where

524
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, I can relate to this. Yeah,

525
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: But then you start to think about it, like, okay, wait,

526
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: what what did I just read?

527
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 6: Yeah? This is from that New York Times piece.

528
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 5: At first glance, EV seems nonpartisan, publishing content about daily

529
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 5: topics such as award winning red carpets.

530
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 6: And styling skinny genes.

531
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 5: But readers who click past hot girl health trends and

532
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 5: Adam Brody appreciation posts we'll find articles that promote positions

533
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 5: that are fringed even within conservative circles, criticisms of no

534
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 5: falt divorce and in vitro fertilization, for example, package and

535
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 5: a fun and approachable format. A typical EV headline amy

536
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 5: from Love is Blind is right to be hesitant about

537
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 5: birth control. Also, they're like super they're super suss about

538
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 5: birth control. We'll talk more about that in a minute.

539
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 5: But yeah, and so this is actually part of a

540
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 5: pretty concerning trend media spaces that at first glance seem

541
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 5: a political are actually very political. That is becoming much

542
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 5: more common online media matters That an analysis that really

543
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 5: showed how right leaning spaces dominate the online ecosystem with

544
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 5: content that appears a political at first. The analysis was

545
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 5: based on three hundred and twenty online shows with a

546
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 5: right leaning or left leading ideological bent. They found that

547
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 5: right leaning shows dominate the online ecosystem with substantially larger

548
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 5: audiences on both politics and new shows, and supposedly non

549
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 5: political shows that they determined often platformed ideological content or guests.

550
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 6: And here's the kicker.

551
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 5: The analysis, which looked entirely at shows with an ideological bent,

552
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 5: found over a third self identify as non political, even

553
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 5: though seventy two percent of those shows were determined to

554
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 5: be right leaning. Instead, these shows describe themselves as comedy, entertainment, sports,

555
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 5: or put themselves in supposedly other non political categories. So basically,

556
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 5: these online spaces that are incredibly influential get to be like, oh,

557
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 5: we're not political, we're not political, we're just talking about celebrity,

558
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 5: gossip and entertainment.

559
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 6: But actually they're incredibly political.

560
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 5: In specifically seventy two percent of these cases right leaning

561
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 5: ideological bents.

562
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 4: Yes.

563
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: And one of those things that really scares me about

564
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: that in this whole compversation is like evy going back

565
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: to the name being like women were wrong and are

566
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: the source of all evil. Like when I was a kid,

567
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: I heard that like Bible story and I believed it,

568
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: and so like I feel like it's it's leaning into

569
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff many of us internalized growing up

570
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: of this is the natural way of things, right, this

571
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: is women stay home, and they're they're they're kind of

572
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: selling like the let's get back to the natural way

573
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: and it'll be easier, it'll be nicer for you. When

574
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: all this stuff was like built, it was societally made.

575
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: But they're selling it as like no, we're going against

576
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 1: the natural order and they're doing it through look at

577
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: the celebrity pop culture story.

578
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they're also that also makes sense as to

579
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 5: why they also sell milkmade style dresses. They also were like,

580
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 5: you know what traditional women might want to do, spend

581
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 5: two hundred dollars on a like frilly dairy dress that

582
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 5: The Cut describes as designed in the French countryside. It's

583
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 5: said to be inspired by the quote hard working dairy

584
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 5: maids of the seventeenth century Europe and as henmade with

585
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,479
Speaker 5: quote luxurious organic cotton and one hundred percent feminine energy.

586
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 5: So it's like, yeah, it's very much like tied up

587
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 5: in this kind of quote natural feminine.

588
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 6: Honestly, the second that I hear in any.

589
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 5: Person or online place say something like oh this has

590
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 5: like the divigne feminine, I'm like, okay, bullshit. Like as

591
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 5: soon as I hear that, I'm like, oh really okay.

592
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: From the back of my head, I'm like, so child

593
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: labor is what you're talking about. That's the little energy

594
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: where they get SI paid two cents an hour.

595
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 7: Sweet.

596
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 5: Nothing says luxurious feminine energy like unsavory labor practices.

597
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: That's what I've always wanted to get that from us anyway,

598
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: So stay at home moms who don't get paid this

599
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: is like the same life.

600
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 7: I guess that's the feminine energy.

601
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 5: So in addition to all of this, more problematically, they

602
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 5: also have a fertility app. So you're always telling you

603
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 5: how they're really not cool with birth control.

604
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 6: They have a fertility app called twenty eight.

605
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 5: The app is backed by tech billionaire and like Mega

606
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 5: Trump thunder.

607
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 6: Peter til I gotta say, like, I simply do.

608
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 5: Not advocate for anyone using apps like this, just in general,

609
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 5: but especially not won backed by somebody like Teal. I

610
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 5: could do a whole episode. This is where I will

611
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 5: talk all day. I'll just say google him. Uh he

612
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 5: is like us, Like he's like if mister Burns was

613
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 5: a real person and also gay.

614
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 6: Like that's how I would describe him. And see there's

615
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 6: so much to stay there.

616
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, less he was still better and like he

617
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: had morals. Les Luthor had morals compared to him.

618
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, he is not He's a not only is he

619
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 5: a bad dude, he's also bad in some like ways

620
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 5: that if I talked about them here you would be

621
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 5: like that sounds like something out of a comic book,

622
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 5: but it's real. Yeah. So he's one of the fund

623
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 5: the one of the funders of their fertility app. They

624
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 5: grew interested in the women's fertility app space because many women.

625
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 5: Hugo Boom said, uh, or that she knew we're having

626
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 5: trouble getting pregnant, and she said that she wanted to

627
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 5: develop a product that would quote empower women to understand

628
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 5: our bodies through some fortuitous networking. They ended up having

629
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 5: a meeting with Peter Teal and they asked him to

630
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 5: invest in a wellness app based on the typical twenty

631
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 5: eighth day menstruation cycle. And Teal was like, is no

632
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 5: one else doing this? And it was like, no, no

633
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 5: one else and he was like, Okay, well sounds like

634
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 5: a good idea. A spokesperson for tel confirmed that he

635
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 5: invested two million dollars in the app and they raised

636
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,280
Speaker 5: three point two million dollars in total. The app pushes

637
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 5: a message that hormonal birth control is bad for you,

638
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 5: Goodbye toxicity. One advertisement read for the birth control detoc

639
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 5: supplements it sells through the app. I'm gonna say on

640
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 5: my tech podcast.

641
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 6: There are no girls on the Internet.

642
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 5: I work with the producer who has a lot of

643
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 5: experience directly writing and reviewing privacy policies for digital health app.

644
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 5: So I asked him to take a look at twenty

645
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 5: eight's privacy policy.

646
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 6: And it wasn't great. Here's a go a rundown of

647
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 6: what he told me.

648
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 5: He said the privacy policy doesn't emphasize going out of

649
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 5: their way to protect users at privacy. Their section on

650
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 5: third party tracking basically says that third parties will have

651
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 5: access to your personal data, but disavows any responsibility for

652
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 5: what those third parties do.

653
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 6: With that personal data, so doesn't fill them with confidence.

654
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 5: They put a lot of responsibility on the end user,

655
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 5: for example, set your browser to refuse all or some

656
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 5: browser cookies, or alert you and cookies are being sent.

657
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 5: He says, if they sincerely wanted to respect users right

658
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 5: to privacy rather than capture the value of their data

659
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 5: while disavowing any risk, twenty eight would describe strong, proactive

660
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 5: steps that they're taking to protect users personal data. Instead,

661
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 5: this privacy policy is all about mitigating their risk by

662
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 5: shifting it on to unspecified third parties and by shifting

663
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 5: it on to the user themselves. So, especially in a

664
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 5: climate where people are being criminalized for information like this,

665
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 5: I would not recommend anybody trust any of their sensitive

666
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 5: intimate data to an app without a very robust privacy

667
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 5: policy in place. I especially would not recommend that anybody

668
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 5: give that data to somebody that's connected to Peter Teel,

669
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 5: who is connected to Donald Trump Like that is just

670
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 5: not something I would recommend.

671
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 4: No signs off on that.

672
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: So that's concerning We've got a lot of concerning things

673
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: we've gone over. But just to bring the point home,

674
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: Bridget is, what is the big deal with ev and

675
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: why is it so problematic?

676
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 6: Yeah?

677
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 5: I mean I think it's very problematic because listen, there

678
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 5: is nothing wrong with like online content that speaks to

679
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 5: all different kinds of women, all different kinds of women's

680
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 5: experiences and perspectives. To me, the whole point of being

681
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 5: a feminist is that it allows for women to choose

682
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 5: paths and perspectives that.

683
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 6: Work for them. Right.

684
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 5: However, EV I find problematic because it is designed to

685
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 5: sell that lie I was talking about earlier, that lie

686
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 5: that makes women not being in the public and civic

687
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 5: sphere look glossy and glamorous, which isn't just wrong.

688
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 6: It can be dangerous. It can be hurtful.

689
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 5: And even though that is dangerous, it's also very enticing.

690
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 5: Very I can understand why that's appealing, especially in a

691
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 5: climate right now where everything.

692
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:09,720
Speaker 6: Is confusing, everything is chaotic.

693
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 5: I can understand the desire for women to be like,

694
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 5: I just want my soft life at home. From that

695
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 5: piece quote. Even critics of evy acknowledged the appeal of

696
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 5: its messaging. It's a perfectly pretty gateway drug to ideologies

697
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 5: which exist to protect the privilege and further disenfranchise the marginalized.

698
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 6: That's from Sarah Peterson, the author.

699
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 5: Of the book Influenced, And I would say something that

700
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 5: makes it even more concerning to me is that when

701
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 5: something is happening, and it's happening in a space that

702
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 5: has sort of been relegated to women people, there's not

703
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 5: really a lot of.

704
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 6: Eyes on it.

705
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 5: There's an automatic assumption that it's like just a fluffy,

706
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 5: poppy space and what happens there doesn't really matter to

707
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 5: anybody or is not of any consequence to anybody.

708
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,439
Speaker 6: It's And so I think that.

709
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 5: Because the kind of people who care about extremism and

710
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 5: media and all of that might not be looking at

711
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 5: a space like ev online too hard, precisely because it

712
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 5: speaks to women. That means that EV can advocate for

713
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 5: positions that even even conservatives would say are extreme and

714
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 5: not really have a lot of people pushing back, right,

715
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 5: and so I think it's a really really effective way

716
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 5: of potentially radicalizing women into a pretty extreme ideology. So

717
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 5: we absolutely need to be paying attention to what is

718
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 5: happening in these online spaces. And probably my biggest personal

719
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 5: beef is that.

720
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 6: She's lying to us, She is lying to women.

721
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 5: She has a very a very belittling attitude about women,

722
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 5: and that comes through so clearly in this piece.

723
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 6: So the founder that I've been talking.

724
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 5: About, Brittany Hugo Boom, she runs a media and tech

725
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 5: company that she says gets half a million eyeballs across

726
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 5: social media, while also saying, well, also telling you other

727
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 5: women that oh, you don't have we don't have the

728
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 5: aptitude to do exactly what it is that she is

729
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 5: doing successful and making money from. When asked about women

730
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 5: running businesses and the piece, she said quote, I think

731
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 5: when most women try to do that, they fail, then

732
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 5: they feel upset about it when it's not really in

733
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 5: their nature. This is how she feels about women. And like,

734
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 5: I know that to be a lie. The reason why

735
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 5: I know it to be a lie is because she's

736
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 5: doing it so like she knows it's a lie too.

737
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 5: She is lying to you to make a buck, and

738
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 5: that is ultimately my big beef with this publication.

739
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 2: I think the conversation is always kind of funny. It's

740
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: that whole level of when marginalized communities have to compete

741
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: with each other, and so they're gonna do everything they

742
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 2: can to get out their competition instead of realizing that

743
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 2: the supremacy of men and white men are the actual competition.

744
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 2: And she's like, yeah, don't do this because you're not

745
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: gonna be as good as I am.

746
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 3: Obviously, because I'm.

747
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 6: White, I can't run a business.

748
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 3: I'm white, I'm Christian, and I got a Christian husband.

749
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 6: He knows well.

750
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 2: Like, it's really fascinating because the again, when we had

751
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: that conversation about women in magazines, the influence of magazines

752
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 2: is deep, is deep, and it runs for years and

753
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 2: years and years and years.

754
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 3: When we talk about a.

755
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 2: Good housewife, we talked about Southern living like that those

756
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: are core memories for me, specifically about my mother and

757
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 2: then from my mother's generation that to them was the

758
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 2: perfect life. So kind again that cyclical point of being like,

759
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 2: we need to go back to the Southern living standard

760
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 2: of housekeeping, which means that women stay home and that

761
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,959
Speaker 2: is their full achievement is how they maintain their home.

762
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because Evie is kind of bringing that

763
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 2: back and understanding how to indoctrinate young women, just like

764
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 2: we've talked about young men and podcasts. This is one

765
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: of those forms of understanding that, Okay, in order to

766
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 2: radicalize young women, we're going to do this, and we're

767
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: going to do this in the way of like reminding

768
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: them of the good old days that they don't know

769
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 2: anything about. They have a fantasy of, whether it's watching

770
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: Little House on the Prairie or hearing about Little House

771
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 2: on the Prairie, whatever what not, and we're going to

772
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: use that to tell them they're going to fail, so

773
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 2: why not try it this way?

774
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 5: And you could see why that would be a really

775
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 5: compelling story. Like again, like I have to be at

776
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 5: somebody who a lot of my I mean, I'm not

777
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 5: a tradwife, but I have a lot of tradwife interests

778
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 5: and hobbies. Like I like preserving things, I like cooking

779
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 5: from scratch, I like gardening, I like all of that.

780
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 6: Like I can understand.

781
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 5: I just really see the ways that, especially right now,

782
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 5: we are selling women this very enticing lie that if

783
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 5: they actually by like by that, it is incredibly dangerous.

784
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 5: Like there was a whole trend of like real treadwives,

785
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 5: women who really like left their left the working world

786
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 5: and got married and had kids and then like you know,

787
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 5: really relied on their their spouse for everything, talking about

788
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 5: how damaging it was for them and their children, Like

789
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 5: there are real stakes when women do this, And so

790
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 5: I don't think there's nothing wrong with being a stay

791
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 5: at home mom, a stay at home parent. Absolutely nothing

792
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 5: wrong with that, But we should not be glamorizing that

793
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 5: without also telling the truth about the reality of what

794
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 5: that looks like and the ways that that can put

795
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 5: you at risk and what you should be doing to

796
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 5: mitigate those risks.

797
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 2: Right especially when we know right now lawmakers are really

798
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: trying to turn back that clock in that level of

799
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: taking rights away from women, making sure they can't vote,

800
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: taking their financial abilities as well, Like we're seeing that

801
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 2: is happening right now as they're trying to introduce this

802
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 2: intossentate to in order to go back to that in

803
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 2: order to take away rights from women.

804
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 3: And when we were like okay, cool, some women obvious

805
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 3: like well, like they're like.

806
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 6: This this could be a self life. Yeah, I mean

807
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 6: we have to talk about it.

808
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 5: I have seen this, like threads of this attitude picking

809
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 5: up steam online with like younger and younger women. There's

810
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 5: that whole trend of like young girls wearing shirts that

811
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 5: are like oh too pretty to work and things like that,

812
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 5: Like that might seem cute, but really, like really take

813
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 5: a step back and think, like, what is it that

814
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 5: we're advocating for. Are we advocating for systems that are

815
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 5: actually going to protect like like put us at risk

816
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 5: or protect us? Like I think that we you know,

817
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 5: we we rightly talk a lot about the radicalization of

818
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 5: men and boys, we should also be talking about the

819
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 5: radicalization of women and girls through online content, because yeah,

820
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 5: I just think that we're setting up women, a generation

821
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 5: of women and girls to really put themselves at risk

822
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 5: and maybe not even realize the ways in which they're

823
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 5: doing that.

824
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and that's something Samantha and I have been

825
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: talking about a lot lately.

826
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 4: So as always, Richie, every time you come on, we're like,

827
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 4: we have a million other things where you have to

828
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 4: talk about.

829
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for taking the time and

830
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: bringing these topics to us.

831
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 4: We really appreciate it. Where can the good listeners find you?

832
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 6: You can listen to my podcast There are Our Girls

833
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 6: on the Internet.

834
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 5: New season is dropping on May fourteenth, so please check

835
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:11,479
Speaker 5: it out.

836
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, they can follow me on Instagram at bridget Marie

837
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 6: and DC.

838
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 4: Yes, and can't wait to can't wait to do this again?

839
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: Listeners, go check bridget out on the podcast Excited for

840
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: the New Season, on social media or on other episodes

841
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: of Stuff We Never Told You And Yes, if you

842
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: would like to contact us you can. You can email

843
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: us Hello a Stuffnever Told You dot com. You can

844
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: find us on Blue skyte Mom Stuff Podcast or on

845
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok at Stuff We Never Told You for

846
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: also on YouTube. We have tepipoot store and we have

847
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: a book you can get wherever you get your books.

848
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: Thanks as always start a super producer Christina and executive

849
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 1: producer My and a contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks

850
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stuff on Over Told You is

851
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: production of by Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio,

852
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,760
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853
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