Speaker 1: Hey, there are folks. In this episode, Amy Robot goes
Speaker 1: back to Catholic church. But why is it that I
Speaker 1: was the one who felt like he was burning in hell? Also,
Speaker 1: how a self proclaimed Jewish mom helped us in our
Speaker 1: hour of need. Plus, I have drinks and I party
Speaker 1: with Amy Robock's ex husband, and we are considering coming
Speaker 1: to your city. We'd like to hear if you'd like
Speaker 1: us to come by. And finally, our guest today poses
Speaker 1: a question to us, and it may be the most
Speaker 1: intriguing question we've been asked in a year and a half.
Speaker 1: And with that, everybody, welcome to this episode of Amy
Speaker 1: and TJ Robes. But first, can you call women out there? Girls?
Speaker 1: Help me out? Why is it that you all wear
Speaker 1: things that are clearly uncomfortable for the sake of being cute?
Speaker 1: Robock helped me with that because we dealt with this.
Speaker 1: We've been dealing with us for the past couple of hours.
Speaker 1: You ain't come right now.
Speaker 2: Well, I have been trained since I can remember, Oh
Speaker 2: trained you my mom and my grandmother that if it's
Speaker 2: pain for beauty, it's pain worth having. You know, if
Speaker 2: you're telling me I have to endure something because I
Speaker 2: have to have some like medical treatment to survive, then
Speaker 2: I'm going to complain. But if it's just to look better,
Speaker 2: I got this.
Speaker 1: Why is that? Why that mindset? I don't think guys.
Speaker 1: I don't think guys do that, But why, Like I
Speaker 1: think classically heels, you all will do whatever to wear
Speaker 1: some sexy heels just in pain.
Speaker 2: But your legs have never looked better in heels, so
Speaker 2: it's worth it.
Speaker 1: It's bizarre that you're no matter what I say, you're
Speaker 1: justifying like I am the idiot for questioning that you
Speaker 1: all might do this, not that you all might say.
Speaker 1: You know what, maybe we should not be sacrificing our
Speaker 1: physical comfort for the sake of looking good for whoever.
Speaker 2: It's just it's just the level of pain and what
Speaker 2: it's worth. So there's a scale. You know, I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna go be in I'm not gonna be suffering, but
Speaker 2: if it's slightly uncomfortable but I look great, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: You're telling me you've never suffered for the sake of
Speaker 1: what you how you.
Speaker 2: Looked heals one percent. I've suffered without a doubt. So
Speaker 2: you see when I walked a little slower ten maybe
Speaker 2: it was like a seven on the scale of pain.
Speaker 1: And we're talking about it now. I don't think it's pain,
Speaker 1: but it's comfort you you today ever since I came by, right,
Speaker 1: I came back by at ten am, and we were
Speaker 1: just INU just me and you and Ava, and you're
Speaker 1: adjusting your outfit. You kept, like, uncomfortably, you continued to
Speaker 1: adjust your outfit. I didn't know what was going on,
Speaker 1: and then I pieced it together, but you explained, and
Speaker 1: then we got on the train and you were still adjusting.
Speaker 1: Now you look adorable. Don't get me wrong, you are.
Speaker 1: You are summer cute. I mean, it is fantastic, y'all
Speaker 1: can't see it right now? She has this orange top
Speaker 1: on what do you call this thing? It's what it's
Speaker 1: a halter top, a halt the top. It's orange, it's bright,
Speaker 1: it's banging. She has this short little skirt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably you can't wear a bra with it, okay,
Speaker 2: So should I go here like normally? I mean, you
Speaker 2: can go into the drug store, you can go anywhere
Speaker 2: and get these little sticky things. So in lieu of
Speaker 2: a bra, you're just you know, not exposing more than
Speaker 2: you'd like. And so I left my sticky things at
Speaker 2: your place.
Speaker 1: Okay, what are those things?
Speaker 2: What they're called? They do? We know what they're called? Pedals?
Speaker 1: Pedals.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can either like buy the ones that are
Speaker 2: one and done so they just stick on to you
Speaker 2: like a band aid, or you can get the kind
Speaker 2: that have a little bit more silicone in them and
Speaker 2: they just kind of stick to your chest and they
Speaker 2: stay put. Well, I don't have them, so I use
Speaker 2: you gut. Girls are going to laugh, so everyone knows.
Speaker 2: This is also something that drives me crazy. Sports bras
Speaker 2: you need a little padding sometimes, but they have these
Speaker 2: inserts that come out constantly and you have to constantly
Speaker 2: move them around, and when you're washing them, they fall
Speaker 2: out in the dryer. I want to create a sports
Speaker 2: bra that has them in place. Okay, sorry, okay, I'm
Speaker 2: getting a preach from our producer here. Yes, uh, one
Speaker 2: hundred percent.
Speaker 3: So I took those out of a sports braud I
Speaker 3: put them Wait what, I put them in my shirt
Speaker 3: so that I have a little bit of but they're
Speaker 3: not sticking like my sticky ones do, so they're moving
Speaker 3: around a little bit.
Speaker 1: Okay, but you didn't have either of those options this morning.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I have that on right now?
Speaker 1: Oh, you have that one. This is what you're wearing.
Speaker 1: This is why you're adjusting. Folks don't know. I am
Speaker 1: holding in my hand a weird padded thing that looks
Speaker 1: like something you would use at a restaurant to even
Speaker 1: the table out underneath if the tables. Okay, that goes
Speaker 1: to the sports ra The reason I know that the
Speaker 1: sticky things were not an option because the sticky things
Speaker 1: are on my nightstand this morning.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's exactly what happened. So it's not that I'm uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: I'm just adjusting because they're moving around a little bit.
Speaker 1: But that's what I mean. You're uncomfortable, You're not. You're
Speaker 1: you're constantly adjusting something today.
Speaker 2: But thanks for sharing on my phone.
Speaker 1: But no, it's not a beauty No, no, no, I didn't.
Speaker 1: That's not a beauty secret. Every woman knows what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. Just I didn't understand why it was still
Speaker 1: worth it to you to constantly adjust or have it
Speaker 1: on your mind for the sake of being banged.
Speaker 2: I just didn't want them to be anything extra showing
Speaker 2: that shouldn't that's all.
Speaker 1: Well, you look great, hey, and yes, everybody, I didn't.
Speaker 1: We didn't plan on starting with that, but hey, that
Speaker 1: was the train ride. But we have had a heck
Speaker 1: of a week here last few days, the last few podcasts,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of no, we appreciate it. We've
Speaker 1: gotten a lot of feedback from you all, and it's
Speaker 1: resonated to some degree, or at least a degree. We
Speaker 1: were very proud of the event we had at SOHO
Speaker 1: House in which it was our first time speaking in
Speaker 1: front of a live audience. But the other episode of
Speaker 1: the podcast that really got we got a lot of
Speaker 1: feedback on and we were so proud of and happy
Speaker 1: about was the episode that had that featured your parents,
Speaker 1: who were happy, we're just coming to town because your
Speaker 1: daughter was graduating high school, and we kind of just say,
Speaker 1: you know what, let's just happen. It wasn't a plan.
Speaker 1: It really happened the day before the plan came together.
Speaker 1: And what an episode is absolutely my favorite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you know what. It was sweet because
Speaker 2: it was your idea. To be specific, you said, hey,
Speaker 2: would your parents do the podcast with us? And I said,
Speaker 2: I think so, but let me ask, And then we
Speaker 2: joked and my mom wanted to know what we were
Speaker 2: going to ask her, and you assured her it was
Speaker 2: going to be nothing that she didn't already know the
Speaker 2: answer to. But I've never seen them more comfortable. I've
Speaker 2: kind of forced them over the years wherever I've worked
Speaker 2: to do certain things on camera, and of course it's
Speaker 2: not the thing you do for a living. It's a
Speaker 2: little jarring, and you kind of are overthinking what you
Speaker 2: should do or what you should say. But I saw
Speaker 2: them at their absolute most comfortable. Honest, I was impressed
Speaker 2: by them. But what I was most impressed by was
Speaker 2: not only everyone's reaction to them, but your reaction to
Speaker 2: them specifically. I appreciate everyone, by the way, who wrote
Speaker 2: in on Instagram or on social media just to say
Speaker 2: kind things about them, because everything that you wrote is true.
Speaker 2: They are a salt of the earth, wonderful, beautiful, pious,
Speaker 2: hard working, earn like beyond, and just to see other
Speaker 2: people recognize that made me so happy. But I also
Speaker 2: told you you sat yesterday and started to speak. You
Speaker 2: re listened to the podcast.
Speaker 1: That was my first times it almost a week so
Speaker 1: we recorded it. I didn't listen to it till almost
Speaker 1: a week after we did it. It had already been out
Speaker 1: there so yeah, I just as I was getting round
Speaker 1: this decided to put it on and I was blown away.
Speaker 2: And you came over really enthusiastically talking about how much
Speaker 2: you appreciated my mom's honesty and her feistiness and her
Speaker 2: humor and then my dad's quiet wisdom.
Speaker 1: He nailed it every time.
Speaker 2: And you said that, and honestly, like, I got tears
Speaker 2: in my eyes seeing how much my man, my guy,
Speaker 2: not only loves my parents but respects them and maybe
Speaker 2: even more importantly likes them. And that has been huge.
Speaker 2: But you know, that is a big deal. With potential
Speaker 2: in laws or just family members of the people you love,
Speaker 2: it doesn't always go that way.
Speaker 1: But you know, I've liked hanging out with your parents
Speaker 1: for years.
Speaker 2: You have. You've always said that, And I've hung.
Speaker 1: With your parents with you not around for years. You
Speaker 1: have and almost preferred to hang out with your parents
Speaker 1: when you're not around.
Speaker 2: You've taken it a step too far. Okay, sorry, but
Speaker 2: I genuinely felt so, Like, you know, it's like when
Speaker 2: someone tells you they love your child, when you'd say that,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like it's like an extension
Speaker 2: of you and that you have no control over to
Speaker 2: a large degree, and when you came over and just
Speaker 2: were genuinely because I let's just say this about you.
Speaker 2: I think you can be honest here. You don't necessarily
Speaker 2: like a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Does that sound so bad?
Speaker 2: It's just you are discerning, you have You're very honest,
Speaker 2: and it takes a lot, I think, for people to
Speaker 2: impress you. It does.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, I don't. I don't waste time trying
Speaker 1: to fool somebody into thinking that I like them or
Speaker 1: I want to spend time with them. This was a
Speaker 1: lot of people said was to my detriment in media
Speaker 1: and in big corporate in a big corporate world, I
Speaker 1: never I've hung out. I've had bosses and presidents of
Speaker 1: companies that I loved and hung out with as friends,
Speaker 1: but never asked them to do anything for me. But
Speaker 1: I've never been one to go kiss the ring or
Speaker 1: try to make good with the boss just because. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and to that way, discerning, I just if I like
Speaker 1: you, you know it. If I don't like you, I don't
Speaker 1: want to spend time with you. It's you might not
Speaker 1: know it, but.
Speaker 2: You probably do know it.
Speaker 1: It's not because he's mean to me. It's because he's
Speaker 1: he didn't show up, or he didn't call back, or
Speaker 1: he didn't message back, or he did it's probably more so.
Speaker 2: That I don't want that to be a negative because
Speaker 2: one of the things I love about you is that
Speaker 2: you are who you are. You don't put on airs,
Speaker 2: you don't pretend you're the opposite of being a bullshit
Speaker 2: or you are as real as they come. So in
Speaker 2: a weird way, like because we were always friends, I
Speaker 2: remember always feeling extra special because I knew you liked me,
Speaker 2: and I was like, yay, he likes me, because you
Speaker 2: know what when you do. But anyway, you came over
Speaker 2: without them ever knowing or hearing or ever imagining that
Speaker 2: I would say anything, but just I was so blown
Speaker 2: away at your reaction to them and what they had
Speaker 2: to say. So it was really it was really great.
Speaker 1: So we left that podcast recorded with your parents. They
Speaker 1: were here for the graduation now you all. We recorded
Speaker 1: that at nine thirty in the morning that Thursday, and
Speaker 1: I mean it was a rat race. After that. We
Speaker 1: left the studio and we had to get set up
Speaker 1: at your home to host about thirty people, and you
Speaker 1: all had to leave for the graduation, which was at five,
Speaker 1: but you all left plenty early. So I am left
Speaker 1: at the house. There's no ice, there's no beer. There
Speaker 1: was wine, but the food was coming. I had to
Speaker 1: receive because I didn't actually go to the graduation at St. Patris.
Speaker 2: We had a very limited number of tickets at Saint
Speaker 2: Patt's because of the seating capacity.
Speaker 1: Maybe, yes, so I am okay being the good boyfriend,
Speaker 1: which is great. That's that's fine. Okay. Now when you left.
Speaker 1: Before you left, that was a little bit of a
Speaker 1: panic because you got that many people. You need ice, yep,
Speaker 1: drinks to keep things cold. The last thing I've said
Speaker 1: to you when you were trying to order things, I said, Baby,
Speaker 1: order too much ice.
Speaker 2: You said, whatever, you do, order more ice than you
Speaker 2: think we need.
Speaker 1: Whatever you think. It's like being at the movie theater
Speaker 1: and they give you butter and you say, hey, when
Speaker 1: you think you put too much, put some more butter on.
Speaker 1: It was one of those things, Baby, order too much ice.
Speaker 1: I can let ice melt, but if I don't have
Speaker 1: enough ice, it's gonna be a problem.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So you go to church for the graduation, yep, which
Speaker 1: was at five. This was all we should look at it.
Speaker 1: I assure it was the hottest, most humid day on
Speaker 1: record in New York City this year.
Speaker 2: It was crazy. I've not felt that kind of humidity
Speaker 2: at all in maybe a year, like other than being
Speaker 2: in New Orleans. It was that human.
Speaker 1: There was that human. So they all go to the graduation.
Speaker 1: They're sitting inside was the was the cathedral air condition.
Speaker 2: It was lovely.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. So I am. I'm at the house. The
Speaker 1: food comes. Wonder if we have enough. I'm sweating, y'all.
Speaker 1: I'm literally in her home with sweatpants on and no shirt.
Speaker 1: It's hots. Also my inside outside.
Speaker 2: And my AC doesn't work so well in the back.
Speaker 1: Though, yeah, but yeah, and even one in the front
Speaker 1: unevenly does run.
Speaker 2: It's a really New York City.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, y'all is it was hot. The ice comes.
Speaker 1: We have a cooler in this little outdoor area. The
Speaker 1: ice comes for thirty people. There are one hundred cans
Speaker 1: of beer and stuff that came. The ice isn't enough
Speaker 1: to even fill up a third of the cooler. Whoops,
Speaker 1: a third.
Speaker 2: They were five pound bags, not twenty third.
Speaker 1: Was called the cooler. So right, they're at the graduation.
Speaker 1: I know they're going to be back at six thirty,
Speaker 1: and people are going to start coming at seven thirty,
Speaker 1: so it's five fifteen, five point thirty six o'clock. I
Speaker 1: try to order ice Instacart and it says it can
Speaker 1: be there between six fifteen and seven forty nine. Like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's cutting it too close. I gotta go get ice, yep,
Speaker 1: and a lot of it. So this is what happens, y'all.
Speaker 1: I do put on a.
Speaker 2: Shirt at least before I leave, but you with sweatpants
Speaker 2: and dress shoes.
Speaker 1: Else I'm walking down in through Tribeca, y'all with sweatpants
Speaker 1: and tasseled dress shoes, it's true, and a T shirt.
Speaker 1: And I go to a seven eleven and I say, ma'am,
Speaker 1: I need ten bags of ice, but I can only
Speaker 1: carry about five on my own right now. Can I
Speaker 1: pay you for them all? And then I'll come back
Speaker 1: and make another trip. The lady says, you poor thing,
Speaker 1: gives me a trash bag out from behind the counter,
Speaker 1: says try this. I walk back with six bags two blocks.
Speaker 2: In the heat like Sandy Claus.
Speaker 1: Literally off me. I dumped that ice. I grab some
Speaker 1: bags you have at the house. I go back to
Speaker 1: seven eleven fill up with another. I think it was
Speaker 1: twelve bags.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, while you're in church yep, and air conditioning.
Speaker 1: You should be on fire.
Speaker 2: But you know what's so sweet? He does all of this.
Speaker 2: I come in, I don't know what he's been through,
Speaker 2: and he doesn't tell me until the next day. He
Speaker 2: was like, I didn't want to make you feel bad
Speaker 2: or to worry about it, so I just did it.
Speaker 2: I didn't say anything about it. He didn't say one
Speaker 2: word until the next day.
Speaker 1: The whole party took place that night. Nothing. But the
Speaker 1: next morning she got up and I woke her up
Speaker 1: like this, like rattling ice in earth. Hear that ice? Baby.
Speaker 1: I got started to see.
Speaker 2: There's a reason why we have an ice is what
Speaker 2: it is. I was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: You're like, that's why I didn't tell you. That's why
Speaker 2: I didn't tell you.
Speaker 1: But it's all right. The party was great. I mentioned
Speaker 1: at the time, I was partying. Yes, I was having
Speaker 1: drinks in the kitchen and having conversation with your ex husband.
Speaker 2: Yep, your first, yes, my first yes.
Speaker 1: Ye're yes. At least the name is Dad was a
Speaker 1: part of the festivity.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, their dad Tim and his wife Jess, who
Speaker 2: they're both lovely people. They flew in from South Carolina
Speaker 2: and so they were there and we were all in
Speaker 2: this apartment together with my parents and by the way,
Speaker 2: Sabine as well came in for the festivities and it
Speaker 2: was beautiful. It went off without a hitch. I don't
Speaker 2: think I've ever had a party where I've had so
Speaker 2: many people I'd never met before, because it was parents
Speaker 2: of other young women who were all there together, and
Speaker 2: it really just was this beautiful and you you made
Speaker 2: it perfect, so thank you. Thank you. Had ice in
Speaker 2: their drinks and that was very important.
Speaker 1: Every every michaelob Ultra was cold.
Speaker 2: It was. It was indeed.
Speaker 1: The other part. Look, we had a series of podcasts
Speaker 1: here that kind of got I guess got on more
Speaker 1: of a personal note, but it was back in March
Speaker 1: we told you all with the last couple of episodes,
Speaker 1: we had an event at Soho House here in New
Speaker 1: York and it it went well and we've gotten great
Speaker 1: feedback from you all as well about the episodes. But
Speaker 1: that only came about because of a friend of ours.
Speaker 1: Mortin Akachuku is his name. He's the head of a
Speaker 1: company called what Works, but a friend somebody went to
Speaker 1: college with, but a robot we connected with here, reconnected
Speaker 1: with I guess this year and he was the one
Speaker 1: that sat us down and saying, you know, what you
Speaker 1: guys should do? And it was his idea and we
Speaker 1: said no, he said, not that sounds crazy. First of all,
Speaker 1: nobody's going to show up. Who the hell wants to
Speaker 1: show up and listen to us say anything was our
Speaker 1: first thing. He just shook his head like, you don't
Speaker 1: even know, you don't even know, so it it was
Speaker 1: not our idea. We want to give him credit for it,
Speaker 1: but us complaint said nobody's going to show up. There's
Speaker 1: no way in hell. And sure enough, when tickets were
Speaker 1: made available, he sent me a note said tickets went up,
Speaker 1: they were going in an hour. So all the tickets were
Speaker 1: going an hour. We had a packed house, a lot
Speaker 1: of standing room in the house. But it was a
Speaker 1: big deal because we hadn't faced an audience in the
Speaker 1: year and a half.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and we talked about it when we
Speaker 2: first started. If you all listened to the first live
Speaker 2: episode from the SOHO House, I mean, we were saying
Speaker 2: we were nervous. But my god, here just to explain
Speaker 2: just how nervous we were. I mean TJ was pacing
Speaker 2: and our hands were shaking, like if you put our
Speaker 2: hands out, they were shaking. We had not been in
Speaker 2: front of people other than a few select folks, so
Speaker 2: we knew we were safe with We had never opened
Speaker 2: ourselves up to an audience. We didn't know who said
Speaker 2: yes to the tickets, we didn't know who was there,
Speaker 2: we didn't know who would ask us what questions, and
Speaker 2: we knew we were opening ourselves up to being asked anything,
Speaker 2: and we genuinely prepared ourselves for every the worst, yeah.
Speaker 1: The worst. We actually had a discussion about security. I said, sweetheart,
Speaker 1: if so and so one happens, if this happens and
Speaker 1: we need to go here, I'm gonna grab you and
Speaker 1: were We actually had that discussion.
Speaker 2: And not to be dramatic, I mean, this is the truth.
Speaker 2: I had multiple emails that involved death threats. When the
Speaker 2: first pictures went up, people were so angry, not just
Speaker 2: about what they said was behind our relationship, but just
Speaker 2: the fact that we were an interracial couple. I had
Speaker 2: some racial fueled, you know, hateful emails that actually went
Speaker 2: into descriptions about how they were going to kill us both.
Speaker 2: So yes, there was genuine like, I know those are
Speaker 2: outliers and random folks, but you just can't not take
Speaker 2: that seriously in those moments when you first put yourself
Speaker 2: back out there in the public.
Speaker 1: And we were in a position we walk into the room,
Speaker 1: we didn't essentially see the room until they Martin introduced us.
Speaker 1: Here's Am and TJ. And we walk in and we're
Speaker 1: seeing the room for the first time. Lights were on us.
Speaker 1: It was we actually still couldn't really see the audience.
Speaker 1: We didn't know who was in there. We knew we
Speaker 1: had family members in there, the girls were in there,
Speaker 1: we had friends in there, but we didn't know. But
Speaker 1: it I can't tell you all and thank you all
Speaker 1: enough for those who attended, but for those who received
Speaker 1: the last couple of episodes of The Way You Have,
Speaker 1: we appreciate it was a very big deal for us.
Speaker 1: It was cathartic for us, and it was a It
Speaker 1: was a way to turn a page in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways, and we appreciate it. So thank you all
Speaker 1: for taking the time to listen. For those of you
Speaker 1: all who showed up, and one person who showed up
Speaker 1: that night, and I mean it it was we had
Speaker 1: We've been asked a lot of questions. We've considered a
Speaker 1: lot of questions over the past year and a half.
Speaker 1: This was one we hadn't even thought about and it
Speaker 1: it jumped out at us and it threw us off
Speaker 1: at the time. But it was such a good feeling
Speaker 1: to know that the person that was asking us this
Speaker 1: question is somebody we had no idea it was going
Speaker 1: to be in the room, and who was kind of
Speaker 1: somebody from our past to a certain degree that we
Speaker 1: had worked with more specifically. But to know that this
Speaker 1: person that showed up meant a lot, I think, and I
Speaker 1: have no thing I've talked about this with you. To
Speaker 1: know that Justice, Justice is a name showed up. It
Speaker 1: was kind of a wow moment for me and it
Speaker 1: actually put me at great ease when Justice stood up
Speaker 1: and asked the question. But I have it right that
Speaker 1: we felt the same. The question that Justice asked was.
Speaker 1: It threw us like wow. I never thought about it
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 2: It was an amazing question and we didn't know. I
Speaker 2: hadn't And it took you, I think, a second to
Speaker 2: put two and two together. Who was asking the question
Speaker 2: because again bright lights on us, we see someone stand
Speaker 2: up and ask this question, and all of a sudden
Speaker 2: you say, justice is that you justice? But it was
Speaker 2: remarkable because yes, he made a parallel that I hadn't
Speaker 2: even considered. Because if you all have listened to the
Speaker 2: last two episodes, you'll know that our theme was shame
Speaker 2: and shedding shame but acknowledging it all the same because
Speaker 2: we're all in different ways go through it, but specifically
Speaker 2: about relationships and then figuring out how to hold your
Speaker 2: head up high, figuring out how to own your truth,
Speaker 2: own your story, and not take on shame, especially when
Speaker 2: it's coming from other people. And he made the parallel
Speaker 2: between the LGBTQ plus community understanding exactly what that's like.
Speaker 2: And I had never even thought about it from that perspective.
Speaker 1: I even thought it was unfair to make a parallel sometimes,
Speaker 1: like that's not fair. You're going into your unique thing
Speaker 1: and there's no reason to find but it is there.
Speaker 1: I think there's some solace, even in some comfort, in
Speaker 1: making those parallels. But Justice is at NYU grad a filmmaker,
Speaker 1: actor writer here in New York, and I got to
Speaker 1: know justice for the first time when we had Justice
Speaker 1: on as a guest conversation between black men and something
Speaker 1: we did at Good Morning America. Justice was a part
Speaker 1: of that panel discussion. And someone who lights up a
Speaker 1: room when they walk in and you call justice at
Speaker 1: the end that night, you coined it, and you're one
Speaker 1: hundred percent right. What did you call justice? At the
Speaker 1: end of that night?
Speaker 2: He looked to me and sounded to me like a
Speaker 2: black angel, and that black.
Speaker 1: Angel is with us. Now, Justice, say something. Make sure
Speaker 1: now she sets you up. So whatever comes out of
Speaker 1: your mouth now needs to sound very black and angelic.
Speaker 4: Oh you want something that's on mute? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Nothing, you know what, I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: We all like that's just perfect. Actually, you know, we're
Speaker 2: all imperfectly perfect. So there you go. Whoops, mute on
Speaker 2: mute Justice.
Speaker 1: How are you doing.
Speaker 4: I'm good? How are you guys? Thank you for having me?
Speaker 1: Oh please, this is an absolute pleasure. I think maybe
Speaker 1: even that night at the SOHO house we talked about
Speaker 1: like we got to get you on. I you know what,
Speaker 1: it was Robot more so than anything, say we've got
Speaker 1: to get Justice on. And I can I start first
Speaker 1: with pronouns. Your pronouns yeah, you go want to go
Speaker 1: by our what.
Speaker 4: I think as like identity.
Speaker 5: Culture has become more and more like a parent and
Speaker 5: kind of more incorporated in our culture. I start to
Speaker 5: feel a little bit more pressure to like pick one
Speaker 5: and pick a pronoun and like.
Speaker 4: Kind of hold everyone to it.
Speaker 5: But for me, I kind of think of pronouns for
Speaker 5: myself as a like reflection of like my relationship with people.
Speaker 5: And I am always kind of in this fluid space
Speaker 5: of you know, like I'm going to the gym and
Speaker 5: I'm putting my snapback on and and like my sweaty pants,
Speaker 5: and like, I know that I look like a guy
Speaker 5: during this moment, and I'm not gonna probably like I'm
Speaker 5: not gonna get mad at someone says, hey, dude, what's up,
Speaker 5: because I know they're at least talking to me and
Speaker 5: at least want to connect with me. One thing that
Speaker 5: I also try to use for myself is like I
Speaker 5: think the best thing you can always do is call
Speaker 5: someone by their name to like to them, you know,
Speaker 5: and like people, that's people's favorite word. Also, you know,
Speaker 5: like people love hearing their name, so like you could
Speaker 5: never go wrong by being like hi Jacob or Hi Emily,
Speaker 5: like they're always going to be fine with that, you know.
Speaker 5: But also I also really I was doing a lot
Speaker 5: reflecting when I was hearing your Getting Ready Today's story, Amy,
Speaker 5: because I was like, oh my god, Like for me,
Speaker 5: I've been learning that feminine is so much about like work.
Speaker 5: There's so much work to be feminine, like being person
Speaker 5: that a person that was born male. It's like, oh
Speaker 5: my god, Like that is almost like what the feminine
Speaker 5: essence is. It's like continue it. Like in the Western society,
Speaker 5: it's like and like putting something on and keeping that together.
Speaker 5: And you know, like even today it's like the minimal
Speaker 5: amount of makeup I have on and YadA YadA is
Speaker 5: like it still has to be placed right.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: And I thought about it, you know, and even when
Speaker 5: I like go out and people might think, oh, that
Speaker 5: could be a girl, like that took a lot of work.
Speaker 4: And I think all women are doing that, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean. I feel like all women are doing it.
Speaker 4: Like yes, we act like it's just.
Speaker 5: Like trans people or queer people getting themselves up. I'm like, no,
Speaker 5: everyone is doing this.
Speaker 2: Yes, we None of us walk up like this, none of.
Speaker 5: Us, none of us looked like this. You know, and
Speaker 5: so we're all putting it on.
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy you can relate to that. That's just
Speaker 2: many stories. I know.
Speaker 4: I'm like the amount of like I don't know, just
Speaker 4: like shirts.
Speaker 5: Sometimes I'm just like, I don't know why I decided
Speaker 5: to wear this because I can barely move, you know,
Speaker 5: like I like I can't move in this dress or whatever.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh, like you.
Speaker 2: Basically walk out each day saying how much discomfort can
Speaker 2: I tolerate to look like this? And then that's the
Speaker 2: decision exactly exactly, And guys are like, then what?
Speaker 4: And then sometimes I.
Speaker 5: Think that about it, like you look so good and
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh my god, yeah.
Speaker 4: It was worth it.
Speaker 2: But I was totally worth it.
Speaker 5: I Like it's a word that I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 5: I've been pain pain, had to toe pains.
Speaker 2: What was it like being you growing up in Nebraska?
Speaker 2: Did you see other people like you? Did you feel
Speaker 2: out of place? Did you feel like you were able
Speaker 2: to become the full version of you there?
Speaker 5: I think I became a full version of myself Part one.
Speaker 5: I think about that a lot, and I've learned to
Speaker 5: not necessarily resent Nebraska because it does give me peace
Speaker 5: and solace in times where like, you know, I've been
Speaker 5: in New York for.
Speaker 4: Almost eight years now, I think it's seven.
Speaker 5: But like when you're in the middle of everything, it's
Speaker 5: time sometimes nice to be in.
Speaker 4: The middle of nowhere.
Speaker 5: And with growing up in Boystown and growing up in Omaha,
Speaker 5: I think I learned something that is really important, Like
Speaker 5: I learned the importance of like brotherly love and as
Speaker 5: a person that loves men and has queer relationships. I
Speaker 5: feel very lucky that I felt that I had like
Speaker 5: a community as a child, and now that community has
Speaker 5: shifted and change. But I was never I always felt protected,
Speaker 5: you know, because I had like eight older brothers, you know,
Speaker 5: who were like, well, if you talk about justice, we're
Speaker 5: ready to fight you.
Speaker 1: You know. So but when was that for you? What
Speaker 1: age was it for you that you knew something that
Speaker 1: you were starting to realize and recognize how you felt
Speaker 1: it might have been different from some of the other boys.
Speaker 1: And then what is your we always ask, right, what
Speaker 1: was your coming out story with your family and friends?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: So I think for me, like I've always been who
Speaker 5: I am, and I think actually more and more now
Speaker 5: I'm getting back to that person. My mom tells the
Speaker 5: story of me watching like Glenn closes one hundred and
Speaker 5: whatever Dalmatians and me like getting like a blanket and
Speaker 5: like doing the whole performance as Crello Deville.
Speaker 4: You know, I was like full performance, foul drag.
Speaker 5: Crello Deville, like three and it was just like and
Speaker 5: I was just like, that's it.
Speaker 2: So you started your villain earrow way back.
Speaker 5: Then, oh, way back then. Like I knew, I knew
Speaker 5: who I was meant to be. I knew I was
Speaker 5: meant to be a villainous woman and that and that
Speaker 5: is you know, I'm working towards that every.
Speaker 4: Day, you know.
Speaker 5: So, but yeah, I think my coming out story was
Speaker 5: I'm it's always evolving. Like I came out as gay
Speaker 5: my freshman year of college. There was this boy that
Speaker 5: I had like this really cute summer romance with that
Speaker 5: was also from Omaha, and I just like was like, well,
Speaker 5: I'm actually doing gay things, so I should.
Speaker 4: Come out as gay.
Speaker 5: Like you know, like at first, I was like, I'm
Speaker 5: I don't know if I'm gay because I didn't do
Speaker 5: gay things.
Speaker 4: When I was like, I'm doing.
Speaker 5: Gay things now, so that I'm gay, you know, and
Speaker 5: then over my time in Nebra, I mean in New York,
Speaker 5: I started understand gender and kind of understanding that sexuality
Speaker 5: is different than gender, and you know, kind of opening
Speaker 5: that range up and now kind of like continuously coming
Speaker 5: now in different ways. I guess, you know, it's like
Speaker 5: I'm always I feel like I'm always shifting, I'm always changing,
Speaker 5: and uh, but why is that?
Speaker 1: What's the shift and change? You seem so the whole
Speaker 1: time I've known you. It's only been a couple of
Speaker 1: years now, but you always seem to be comfortable in
Speaker 1: your own skin with who you are, never hiding anything. Again,
Speaker 1: maybe it was the relationship we had, maybe it was
Speaker 1: the environment that we had, but you sound like you're
Speaker 1: still there's still some evolution of justice that's taking place.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, you know, I think it is the comfortability.
Speaker 5: I think like when we always connect, I feel like safe,
Speaker 5: you know, And I appreciate that from you. But I
Speaker 5: think I also grow. I'm also want to And I
Speaker 5: moved to New York at seventeen. I went to a
Speaker 5: space that I went to, a bubble that like allowed
Speaker 5: me to be comfortable. I like went to NYU and
Speaker 5: like it was like, oh yeah, like everyone's gay. Like
Speaker 5: it was just like like it was just like, so
Speaker 5: what are you gonna do? Like do you want to
Speaker 5: go to Brooklyn? Do you want to see this drag show?
Speaker 5: Do you want to go to I mean, you want
Speaker 5: to go to this party?
Speaker 4: Like it was just like.
Speaker 2: Just as it's so funny. So you know, my daughter
Speaker 2: is about to be a senior at NYU, and she
Speaker 2: was actually just telling us about the drag and Playhouse.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've been there, but she was
Speaker 2: at playhouse last night and with telling me all about
Speaker 2: the drag show and how she got pulled up on stage.
Speaker 2: And so when you said everybody's like this at NYU,
Speaker 2: I'm laughing because you're not wrong.
Speaker 5: No, I'm like like and then there's the bubble, but
Speaker 5: then you know, like you have to leave the bubble
Speaker 5: and like something to come back here. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 5: like I am different and you have to just I
Speaker 5: don't know, maybe I'm also delusional or like I sometimes
Speaker 5: have that feel like I actually live in a little
Speaker 5: bit of delusion where like if I don't have like
Speaker 5: this radical optimism around, like self confidence and believing in
Speaker 5: myself and believing in other marginalized people like I would
Speaker 5: just have like crippling anxiety and just fall apart.
Speaker 4: So it's like I have to choose it.
Speaker 2: To the point, Justice, I have a question, are there places?
Speaker 2: Have there been places where you don't feel safe being you?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Of course, like I've felt unsafe in I think
Speaker 5: my high school. I remember my high school right before
Speaker 5: I left for college was twenty sixteen, and like the
Speaker 5: whole like beginning of the Trump thing, and I was
Speaker 5: just like friends were turning on me and family, friends
Speaker 5: were turning on my family, and it was more honestly
Speaker 5: racial than anything. This is just my my my life.
Speaker 5: I felt more optracized race wise than queer wise, because
Speaker 5: even within the queer community, like we can't deny like
Speaker 5: there's like rampant racism, you know, like the queer community has,
Speaker 5: especially with like white gay men, they have this very
Speaker 5: fascist perspectives. They have their own kind of like like
Speaker 5: you have to look like this and you will like it.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of dynamics and that can review apart.
Speaker 1: So wait, did that right, Justice, that you you you
Speaker 1: feel more racism within the LGBTQ plus community than you
Speaker 1: do as essentially in the community as a whole, do
Speaker 1: you feel more racism? No, okay, not as a.
Speaker 4: Whole, but I feel like it's equal.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't pay that it's more, but I do feel
Speaker 5: like it's definitely equal. And the thing is, is that
Speaker 5: also the scary. One of my mentors last night this
Speaker 5: to me, who was actually one of my professors, is
Speaker 5: that it's really scary when people who have power or
Speaker 5: privileged think they're innocent. And I thought about that and
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, yeah, you're right, and like I
Speaker 5: think specifically with like white gayness, it creates this like, oh,
Speaker 5: but I'm not a white straight man.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm innocent.
Speaker 5: And then it's like, so I can fetishize black men,
Speaker 5: I can adopt these these like ideals around like beauty
Speaker 5: and that is, but I am innocent because I'm also marginalized.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask, I want to go back to
Speaker 1: the SOHO House event again. We didn't know you were
Speaker 1: going to be there, and I hadn't talked to you
Speaker 1: since I don't think I had since you come on
Speaker 1: for again conversations with black men special that we did.
Speaker 1: You though, got up at the SOHO House event and
Speaker 1: there were two moments that night. Yours was one of
Speaker 1: them that put us at ease in such a way
Speaker 1: that we couldn't ever have planned. But the first moment
Speaker 1: was when I had actually told a friend of mine
Speaker 1: who was a big time producer we love and respect
Speaker 1: about the event, and she said, at the end of
Speaker 1: that event, whatever you guys do, you need to make
Speaker 1: sure those people just want to get up and embrace you,
Speaker 1: like put just hug you. You got to make sure
Speaker 1: how have you come across. Make sure you don't say, oh,
Speaker 1: we were done wrong, and make sure you don't go
Speaker 1: out there and do all that hooton and holland you
Speaker 1: go out there and you explain yourselves and you talk
Speaker 1: and you be sincere and they should want to put
Speaker 1: their arms around you. And sure enough, when we got
Speaker 1: done with our talk and we opened it up to questions,
Speaker 1: one of the first things that happened is you said.
Speaker 1: She announced herself as a.
Speaker 2: I'm a Jewish mom, Yeah, Jewish mom, and she said,
Speaker 2: the first thing I want to do right now to
Speaker 2: both of you is give you a hug. And I
Speaker 2: looked at TJ because he had told me. I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, that was amazing, Like that's exactly what
Speaker 2: you know. We were hoping there would be some level
Speaker 2: of connectivity. And we're not playing the victim card. We're
Speaker 2: not saying poor us. We're just all sharing an experience
Speaker 2: that everyone can understand, which is that feeling of shame.
Speaker 2: And that was what we were hoping to do, just
Speaker 2: to connect. So anyway, yes, she stood up, Tej, you
Speaker 2: got off the stage and you gave her a big
Speaker 2: old hug, and I just thought, oh my goodness, this
Speaker 2: is this is perfect the moment, but.
Speaker 1: Then moment too, just this was when you stood up
Speaker 1: and we didn't couldn't lay eyes on you because again
Speaker 1: the audience was dark. We had the lights on us.
Speaker 1: I still couldn't see you. But when you said, you
Speaker 1: gotta be fucking kidding me, he's in here, and you
Speaker 1: asked the question that we had not considered. He said,
Speaker 1: do you all feel some kind of connection parallels with
Speaker 1: the lgbt Q plus community with the idea of your love,
Speaker 1: your relationship not being accepted. Do you feel some kind
Speaker 1: of shame because it's for some reason your relationship is
Speaker 1: looked at as one that is not accepted, And we
Speaker 1: had never considered that before. So if you can help
Speaker 1: us here for a moment. We haven't talked about it
Speaker 1: that much, but that question, where did that question come from?
Speaker 1: And what did you see? Again, we hadn't talked, but
Speaker 1: I guess you'd seen the past year and a half
Speaker 1: what she and I had been going through. But where
Speaker 1: did that question come from?
Speaker 5: I think it came from really just like I think
Speaker 5: seeing what had happened over the past year and a
Speaker 5: half and feeling solidarity there and feeling that frustration and
Speaker 5: feeling frustration that kind of I have with my own
Speaker 5: relationships and not feeling that they're validated. I just really
Speaker 5: felt you guys, And I was like, oh, this is
Speaker 5: kind of that. I was like, oh, there's there's like
Speaker 5: in that moment. I was like, Oh, that's the connection.
Speaker 5: Like I didn't know why I was so un I
Speaker 5: was like, so I felt so weird about it, but
Speaker 5: I was like, Oh, that's the connection because queer people
Speaker 5: are constantly like attacked for the way that they love
Speaker 5: and there's so many like stigmas around that, and uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I was also there on a date too, and
Speaker 5: my date was like kept like whispering to me and
Speaker 5: saying like, oh, I think this this feels like very
Speaker 5: queer in a weird way, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I think so. Like They're like, yeah, like we this
Speaker 5: is like what we do all the time. And I
Speaker 5: was like, yeah, you're right, like that is the feeling
Speaker 5: that there's like a continuous fight, you know, for love,
Speaker 5: and and they were there, Lido shout out to you
Speaker 5: was like was like.
Speaker 1: Or as he was known that night, the white Man.
Speaker 2: My white Day, but nobody. It was so incredible because
Speaker 2: I started thinking about it. You know, I know in
Speaker 2: New York it probably mostly feels like a safe space
Speaker 2: to hold hands with the person you're with, or just
Speaker 2: to walk down the street in a loving way with
Speaker 2: someone who you're with proudly with your head held up high.
Speaker 2: That isn't something that just comes naturally or easily, I
Speaker 2: would imagine, because you're thinking, everyone walking down the street
Speaker 2: is judging me, Everyone walking down the street is thinking
Speaker 2: I'm not okay with that. And so it a light
Speaker 2: bulb went off for both of us when you put
Speaker 2: it like that, because I never imagined I had never
Speaker 2: known what that felt like, and yet suddenly we felt like,
Speaker 2: you know, should we hold hands, should we walk down
Speaker 2: the street together? Is it okay? If we give each
Speaker 2: other a peck or you know, a loving kiss or whatever,
Speaker 2: because it's I say, as he kisses my shoulder. But
Speaker 2: there was a dilemma that I had never felt that
Speaker 2: you all live with. I'm assuming most days, yes.
Speaker 5: And I think it's also surveillance, right, It's like two
Speaker 5: different types of surveillance. Like queer people are continuously surveiled,
Speaker 5: and there is this like all these different viewpoints trying
Speaker 5: to find the thing that is out of place, right,
Speaker 5: And you guys also came from a different kind of
Speaker 5: form of surveillance that had to do with you guys
Speaker 5: being actually on like media and on camera, and so
Speaker 5: you were already being surveiled and then you guys decided
Speaker 5: to like live authentically within that surveillance and surveillance don't
Speaker 5: like that like that like like surveillance does not like
Speaker 5: you stepping out of place. It's kind of like that
Speaker 5: big brother thing, you know, it's like, oh, what are
Speaker 5: they doing? You know, like we did to go for them,
Speaker 5: And yeah, it's very interesting.
Speaker 1: I just have a couple of more things here for you,
Speaker 1: one of them having to do with something you said
Speaker 1: and you talk about surveillance, and you talked about we've
Speaker 1: been talking about shame here, and I was embarrassed. You
Speaker 1: explained it at the event, the so Who Else event,
Speaker 1: But I had no idea that when you were brought
Speaker 1: on and when the producers brought on as a guests,
Speaker 1: I had no idea that you were asked to kind
Speaker 1: of uh and you know, I will, I'll let you
Speaker 1: say it the right way, but kind of tamp down,
Speaker 1: to dumb down, to not be sow this or sow
Speaker 1: that for the camera and for the sake of the
Speaker 1: of the conversation. I had no idea about that until
Speaker 1: you told me at the SOHO House event, and I
Speaker 1: was embarrassed and hurt that that even came your way.
Speaker 1: I guess that's maybe not It wasn't a surprise to you,
Speaker 1: But can you explain you're you're asked to come on
Speaker 1: and again to everybody? It was called Conversations with Black Men.
Speaker 1: I was hosting this roundtable. I had one guy who
Speaker 1: was kind of an entertainment guy had an activist, and
Speaker 1: I had we had Justice and Justice was supposed to
Speaker 1: represent a certain segment of black manhood and you came
Speaker 1: on Justice. What was it you were trying to explain
Speaker 1: to us that the producers were explaining to you how
Speaker 1: to be when you got on the air.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, thank you so much. I think with going
Speaker 5: on conversation with the Black with Black Men, I knew
Speaker 5: that I had to be fought.
Speaker 4: For to be there.
Speaker 5: I knew that my perspective was like being like, I
Speaker 5: knew that people were fighting for me to be there
Speaker 5: because I don't think it was like a normal thought.
Speaker 4: To have someone like me on that panel. And also
Speaker 4: I did feel pressure to.
Speaker 5: Like conform, and I think it was just like this
Speaker 5: double surveillance again that happened, where like the surveillance of
Speaker 5: knowing I'm a queer person here, but then there's also
Speaker 5: the surveillance of like Disney and ABC and knowing like, oh,
Speaker 5: like I am, I'm not Disney. I have to create
Speaker 5: this version of me that is palpable and like stays
Speaker 5: close to the status WHOA. It was just like hey,
Speaker 5: like stay, don't go too far, you know, And that is.
Speaker 2: You were told not to be too much of yourself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't go too far. Yeah, but I think.
Speaker 2: How did you feel? How did you feel when the
Speaker 2: producer said that to you?
Speaker 5: The truth is I'm also like kind of used to
Speaker 5: it though, Like I know that sounds wild, but like
Speaker 5: I'm kind of used to it, and I kind of
Speaker 5: already like read between the lines and figure out like,
Speaker 5: oh yeah, like I am probably one of the first
Speaker 5: people like me to be here sometimes like I understand that,
Speaker 5: like I'm already kind of creeping into something that is.
Speaker 4: Uh like uncharted territory for someone like me.
Speaker 2: I'm actually surprised, is it someone said don't be yourself?
Speaker 2: Because you know, we're always talking to people, were saying, hey,
Speaker 2: be yourself, like for you know, answer questions honestly. But
Speaker 2: to know that you're telling someone don't be too much
Speaker 2: of yourself or don't be it's almost like saying, don't
Speaker 2: be too queer, don't be too black, don't haven't you
Speaker 2: been told? Know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: No, No, you just you nailed it. I'm good by
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. Get it soon as you said that.
Speaker 1: That does everything else. I get it now. But I
Speaker 1: felt bad and I apologize because I obviously missed something.
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure you were comfortable. I remember
Speaker 1: you came in. You were a little shy. I mean,
Speaker 1: you were the one that didn't have as much I
Speaker 1: guess on camera experience or TV experience, certainly new experience
Speaker 1: like that. I was actually making an argument that I
Speaker 1: wanted you to sit closer to me on set because
Speaker 1: you were kind of more of the quiet. I say,
Speaker 1: I need good physical proximity to maybe be able to
Speaker 1: talk to justice, make sure justice is open and comfortable.
Speaker 1: You were on the end, which ended up working, and
Speaker 1: you were great for that panel discussion. But I was
Speaker 1: good going out of my way to try to make
Speaker 1: sure you were comfortable, not realizing that I was battling
Speaker 1: my own show team that was trying to get you
Speaker 1: to be something else. So for that I missed and
Speaker 1: I apologized, but it was just it was so I mean,
Speaker 1: it was so wonderful to hear you at the Sawhouse event.
Speaker 1: You stood up and said you remembered, and you recalled
Speaker 1: how I tried to make you feel comfortable. I had
Speaker 1: no idea if I'd ever see you again the rest
Speaker 1: of my life, and I'm just sometimes we get it right,
Speaker 1: and maybe Mama Rays is right. And I was trying
Speaker 1: to make you as comfortable as possible. So that meant
Speaker 1: a lot that you stood up and said.
Speaker 5: That, yeah, it was great, like it might be things
Speaker 5: that are kind of going out of styles like the
Speaker 5: media training.
Speaker 2: Thing or like yeah, that's help, you know.
Speaker 4: It's like.
Speaker 5: And I feel lucky that I'm kind of in that
Speaker 5: space where those things are falling apart because people want
Speaker 5: to see the real versions of people within media, like
Speaker 5: as an artist, like I don't have to always bite
Speaker 5: my tongue. But the truth is is that, like I
Speaker 5: do know that there will be moments in the future
Speaker 5: that I will have to weigh those two things like, hey,
Speaker 5: do you want to be Do you want to really
Speaker 5: say that right now?
Speaker 4: Or do you want to plan to seed and.
Speaker 5: Grow and move forward within your own career and things
Speaker 5: that you want and then you can come back and
Speaker 5: be like all right here.
Speaker 2: It is just it's so interesting hearing you say that,
Speaker 2: because yes, TJ just said, that's very mature of you
Speaker 2: to not be immediately offended and say this is me,
Speaker 2: take it or leave it, because you actually have a
Speaker 2: goal to win the hearts and minds of folks who
Speaker 2: want to put people in certain categories and say, ah, see,
Speaker 2: that's why I don't like them because they say this,
Speaker 2: that or the other. But I wonder, after having had
Speaker 2: the experience you had and getting a little bit older.
Speaker 2: If approached and told to do the same thing, would
Speaker 2: you comply or would you say I appreciate what you're saying,
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna be me, Like do you feel like
Speaker 2: now you might be more willing to say what you
Speaker 2: really feel versus let someone tell you to water yourself down.
Speaker 5: I think what I would have done is I would
Speaker 5: have been like, okay, cool, like I get it, but
Speaker 5: then I would have just done it anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I like that, do you.
Speaker 5: Know what I mean? I think that's kind of what
Speaker 5: I would have done. I would have been like okay, cool, yeah, but.
Speaker 4: Like just done it anyway.
Speaker 5: Like personally, for me, I am still learning to be more.
Speaker 4: Steady within myself.
Speaker 5: I am still learning to like take up space and
Speaker 5: not always be you know, like sunshine and rainbows. You know,
Speaker 5: like even the thing you're like, oh, justice like lights
Speaker 5: up a room, and I think that is also a
Speaker 5: defense mechanism.
Speaker 2: Wow, toxic positivity is that what it's called. I think
Speaker 2: that's what my daughter told me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like it's like, oh, like I half light
Speaker 5: up the room or I'm gonna be the villain or
Speaker 5: they're gonna find out I'm the villain lady.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean. You know what I mean.
Speaker 5: They're gonna find out that I'm plenty somewhere or like
Speaker 5: I am you know, I have like I am stressed,
Speaker 5: and I'm not always happy, and I have anxiety, and
Speaker 5: I am depressed and all these different things. We're gonna
Speaker 5: find that out if I don't beam. So I need
Speaker 5: to beam being beam.
Speaker 1: You know, And sorry, man, we need you to. I
Speaker 1: was like, I can't wait to talk to Justice. Justice
Speaker 1: got so much good great. We don't want to hear
Speaker 1: justice for us.
Speaker 5: I know, I know, but it's true, you know what
Speaker 5: I think. But I think that is often a thing
Speaker 5: with marginalized people.
Speaker 1: It's like we have to you know, excellent time and
Speaker 1: have a bad dame. Yeah, yeah, well, Tila, you you
Speaker 1: meant and I mentioned at the top here, but you
Speaker 1: are You're a You're a filmmaker. You're on film. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think it's two maybe three. Notes on a Siren
Speaker 1: is your latest that came out this year. But this
Speaker 1: is the second of the third helped.
Speaker 5: Me of my films. Yeah, this is kind of this
Speaker 5: is like kind of my second. But I've done some
Speaker 5: like commissioned films, for like between like for like Calvin
Speaker 5: Klein and MTV.
Speaker 1: But Notes on a Siren is the latest one and
Speaker 1: it keeps everywhere I read it calls it a video essay.
Speaker 1: Is that an accurate accurate description of it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a video essay. It's uh.
Speaker 5: Me really like turning the camera back on myself again.
Speaker 5: Like I also went to school tiss for acting for
Speaker 5: two years and I was like, I need to I
Speaker 5: want to see more stories that incorporate me in the
Speaker 5: ways that I want to be incorporated. And I was like,
Speaker 5: I guess I have to do that for myself, and
Speaker 5: so I kind of got swooped away in the filmmaking
Speaker 5: of it all, and Notes on a Siren is my
Speaker 5: reintroduction into being on camera and looking at actually how
Speaker 5: the camera does transform us and like what does that
Speaker 5: surveillance make us into? And like for me, I found
Speaker 5: I with the mockumentary and kind of this whole thing
Speaker 5: we've created with that film is it made me into
Speaker 5: this possessed siren creature.
Speaker 4: By the end of the.
Speaker 1: Movie, Well you gotta watch it. I mean, whatever you're doing,
Speaker 1: you take it. It's fourteen minutes or something, a short film, right, Yeah, Okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I watched it, and I saw more of Justice than I.
Speaker 2: Than I.
Speaker 1: Yes, I watched You said you watched it, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: You know, and it was bold, you know. It was
Speaker 4: my first movie was like literally like Black Disney.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: It was like Patter.
Speaker 5: Raise a black Boy, Little Boys in the Woods, everything
Speaker 5: so beautiful. But this is just like, I don't know,
Speaker 5: it's like, you know what, I want to be a
Speaker 5: bit more honest and push myself and have and not
Speaker 5: be confined, you know, and like that's really it.
Speaker 1: Like I was like, all right, you were not confined
Speaker 1: in this, uh, this film at all. It's called Notes
Speaker 1: on a Siren. It might as well be called notes
Speaker 1: on My Naked Black ass' it's it's.
Speaker 4: My naked black ass.
Speaker 1: Play with that title, would you want?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I think I'm also like, I'm like, what else am
Speaker 5: I going to be able to be naked on screen
Speaker 5: like that?
Speaker 2: I mean, definitely do it in your twenty So I
Speaker 2: think that's a really that was a good call on
Speaker 2: your part. Go ahead and do it when you're at
Speaker 2: your finest.
Speaker 5: Yes, I was like, we're gonna preserve this on tell you, Lloyd,
Speaker 5: it's gonna be there, and you know that's that.
Speaker 1: On that and again I'm laughing that we joke about it.
Speaker 1: That is not what the film is. Yes, there's a
Speaker 1: moment of expression in the front, the mirror and the
Speaker 1: whole thing you're going through, but it is kind of
Speaker 1: a trip, a journey you take people on, and it
Speaker 1: is artistic and it is really cool. It's not something
Speaker 1: that I would have naturally probably gravitated towards if somebody
Speaker 1: just randomly told me about it, but obviously I checked
Speaker 1: it out because of you. But it clearly shows talent
Speaker 1: and it's cool and it's it's fun to watch, and
Speaker 1: I think everybody should check it out. It's called Notes.
Speaker 2: On a Siren Well Justice, Thank you so much. I
Speaker 2: can't wait to see what's to come, because you are
Speaker 2: just beginning and you are finding your voice and through
Speaker 2: art and it's just beautiful. And just the fact that
Speaker 2: you were able to stand up you touched us, You
Speaker 2: touched everyone in that room, and you're going to continue
Speaker 2: to do that in so many ways, I know, through
Speaker 2: your art and through just being you and feeling that freedom,
Speaker 2: that shameless freedom to be yourself. So thank you. You inspire us,
Speaker 2: and we hope everyone listening was inspired by you as well.
Speaker 5: Thank you, you guys inspire me as well. I'm so
Speaker 5: thankful and yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Justine, love you, brother Bankes. You tell you, folks,
Speaker 1: we said hello, the family said hello, and we will
Speaker 1: see you back here in New York.
Speaker 4: All right, Okay, love you guys too.
Speaker 1: All right, folks, that is absolutely one of our favorite
Speaker 1: people that we've got the chance to spend time with
Speaker 1: over the past a year and a half for a
Speaker 1: lot of reasons. But we will be seeing justice here
Speaker 1: in studio, and folks, we again appreciate you so much,
Speaker 1: those of you showed up at the Soho House event
Speaker 1: and those of you who were hearing from and it
Speaker 1: has sparked an idea in US, and we give our
Speaker 1: friend Martin credit for coming up with the idea of
Speaker 1: the Soho House event. But we are getting request and
Speaker 1: we are putting together a potential plan to maybe come
Speaker 1: to a city near you, not a city near you,
Speaker 1: your cities. A lot of people says city.
Speaker 2: Or year you. I guess it's maybe saying that we're
Speaker 2: going to go to some of the bigger cities. And
Speaker 2: so yes, we are kind of putting a list together
Speaker 2: of the cities that we would like to maybe initially
Speaker 2: start with see what the receptionist see. If you all
Speaker 2: are enjoying coming to see us live on stage, it's fun,
Speaker 2: it's exciting. Anything can happen. You can ask us anything.
Speaker 2: That's the other cool part. We love the idea of
Speaker 2: opening it up to questions. It worked out well in
Speaker 2: New York, so we hope the same would be said.
Speaker 2: But I know we already have a few cities in mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's something else that we are considering it again.
Speaker 1: And we appreciate you all for embracing us, and we
Speaker 1: might be in a city right around the corner from
Speaker 1: you very very soon, So folks, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Of course, you can always find us on our Instagram
Speaker 1: at Amy and TJ Podcast. Now we'll see you soon.