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Speaker 1: Hey, there are folks. In this episode, Amy Robot goes

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Speaker 1: back to Catholic church. But why is it that I

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Speaker 1: was the one who felt like he was burning in hell? Also,

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Speaker 1: how a self proclaimed Jewish mom helped us in our

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Speaker 1: hour of need. Plus, I have drinks and I party

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Speaker 1: with Amy Robock's ex husband, and we are considering coming

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Speaker 1: to your city. We'd like to hear if you'd like

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Speaker 1: us to come by. And finally, our guest today poses

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Speaker 1: a question to us, and it may be the most

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Speaker 1: intriguing question we've been asked in a year and a half.

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Speaker 1: And with that, everybody, welcome to this episode of Amy

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Speaker 1: and TJ Robes. But first, can you call women out there? Girls?

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Speaker 1: Help me out? Why is it that you all wear

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Speaker 1: things that are clearly uncomfortable for the sake of being cute?

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Speaker 1: Robock helped me with that because we dealt with this.

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Speaker 1: We've been dealing with us for the past couple of hours.

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Speaker 1: You ain't come right now.

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Speaker 2: Well, I have been trained since I can remember, Oh

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Speaker 2: trained you my mom and my grandmother that if it's

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Speaker 2: pain for beauty, it's pain worth having. You know, if

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Speaker 2: you're telling me I have to endure something because I

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Speaker 2: have to have some like medical treatment to survive, then

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Speaker 2: I'm going to complain. But if it's just to look better,

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Speaker 2: I got this.

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Speaker 1: Why is that? Why that mindset? I don't think guys.

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Speaker 1: I don't think guys do that, But why, Like I

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Speaker 1: think classically heels, you all will do whatever to wear

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Speaker 1: some sexy heels just in pain.

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Speaker 2: But your legs have never looked better in heels, so

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Speaker 2: it's worth it.

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Speaker 1: It's bizarre that you're no matter what I say, you're

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Speaker 1: justifying like I am the idiot for questioning that you

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Speaker 1: all might do this, not that you all might say.

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Speaker 1: You know what, maybe we should not be sacrificing our

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Speaker 1: physical comfort for the sake of looking good for whoever.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's just the level of pain and what

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Speaker 2: it's worth. So there's a scale. You know, I'm not

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Speaker 2: gonna go be in I'm not gonna be suffering, but

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Speaker 2: if it's slightly uncomfortable but I look great, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: do it.

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Speaker 1: You're telling me you've never suffered for the sake of

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Speaker 1: what you how you.

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Speaker 2: Looked heals one percent. I've suffered without a doubt. So

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Speaker 2: you see when I walked a little slower ten maybe

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Speaker 2: it was like a seven on the scale of pain.

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Speaker 1: And we're talking about it now. I don't think it's pain,

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Speaker 1: but it's comfort you you today ever since I came by, right,

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Speaker 1: I came back by at ten am, and we were

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Speaker 1: just INU just me and you and Ava, and you're

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Speaker 1: adjusting your outfit. You kept, like, uncomfortably, you continued to

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Speaker 1: adjust your outfit. I didn't know what was going on,

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Speaker 1: and then I pieced it together, but you explained, and

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Speaker 1: then we got on the train and you were still adjusting.

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Speaker 1: Now you look adorable. Don't get me wrong, you are.

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Speaker 1: You are summer cute. I mean, it is fantastic, y'all

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Speaker 1: can't see it right now? She has this orange top

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Speaker 1: on what do you call this thing? It's what it's

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Speaker 1: a halter top, a halt the top. It's orange, it's bright,

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Speaker 1: it's banging. She has this short little skirt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, probably you can't wear a bra with it, okay,

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Speaker 2: So should I go here like normally? I mean, you

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Speaker 2: can go into the drug store, you can go anywhere

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Speaker 2: and get these little sticky things. So in lieu of

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Speaker 2: a bra, you're just you know, not exposing more than

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Speaker 2: you'd like. And so I left my sticky things at

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Speaker 2: your place.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what are those things?

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Speaker 2: What they're called? They do? We know what they're called? Pedals?

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Speaker 1: Pedals.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you can either like buy the ones that are

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Speaker 2: one and done so they just stick on to you

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Speaker 2: like a band aid, or you can get the kind

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Speaker 2: that have a little bit more silicone in them and

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Speaker 2: they just kind of stick to your chest and they

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Speaker 2: stay put. Well, I don't have them, so I use

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Speaker 2: you gut. Girls are going to laugh, so everyone knows.

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Speaker 2: This is also something that drives me crazy. Sports bras

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Speaker 2: you need a little padding sometimes, but they have these

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Speaker 2: inserts that come out constantly and you have to constantly

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Speaker 2: move them around, and when you're washing them, they fall

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Speaker 2: out in the dryer. I want to create a sports

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Speaker 2: bra that has them in place. Okay, sorry, okay, I'm

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Speaker 2: getting a preach from our producer here. Yes, uh, one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: So I took those out of a sports braud I

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Speaker 3: put them Wait what, I put them in my shirt

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Speaker 3: so that I have a little bit of but they're

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Speaker 3: not sticking like my sticky ones do, so they're moving

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Speaker 3: around a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but you didn't have either of those options this morning.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, I have that on right now?

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Speaker 1: Oh, you have that one. This is what you're wearing.

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Speaker 1: This is why you're adjusting. Folks don't know. I am

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Speaker 1: holding in my hand a weird padded thing that looks

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Speaker 1: like something you would use at a restaurant to even

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Speaker 1: the table out underneath if the tables. Okay, that goes

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Speaker 1: to the sports ra The reason I know that the

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Speaker 1: sticky things were not an option because the sticky things

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Speaker 1: are on my nightstand this morning.

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Speaker 2: Yep, that's exactly what happened. So it's not that I'm uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: I'm just adjusting because they're moving around a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But that's what I mean. You're uncomfortable, You're not. You're

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Speaker 1: you're constantly adjusting something today.

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Speaker 2: But thanks for sharing on my phone.

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Speaker 1: But no, it's not a beauty No, no, no, I didn't.

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Speaker 1: That's not a beauty secret. Every woman knows what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. Just I didn't understand why it was still

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Speaker 1: worth it to you to constantly adjust or have it

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Speaker 1: on your mind for the sake of being banged.

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Speaker 2: I just didn't want them to be anything extra showing

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Speaker 2: that shouldn't that's all.

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Speaker 1: Well, you look great, hey, and yes, everybody, I didn't.

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Speaker 1: We didn't plan on starting with that, but hey, that

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Speaker 1: was the train ride. But we have had a heck

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Speaker 1: of a week here last few days, the last few podcasts,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of no, we appreciate it. We've

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Speaker 1: gotten a lot of feedback from you all, and it's

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Speaker 1: resonated to some degree, or at least a degree. We

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Speaker 1: were very proud of the event we had at SOHO

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Speaker 1: House in which it was our first time speaking in

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Speaker 1: front of a live audience. But the other episode of

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Speaker 1: the podcast that really got we got a lot of

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Speaker 1: feedback on and we were so proud of and happy

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Speaker 1: about was the episode that had that featured your parents,

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Speaker 1: who were happy, we're just coming to town because your

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Speaker 1: daughter was graduating high school, and we kind of just say,

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Speaker 1: you know what, let's just happen. It wasn't a plan.

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Speaker 1: It really happened the day before the plan came together.

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Speaker 1: And what an episode is absolutely my favorite.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you know what. It was sweet because

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Speaker 2: it was your idea. To be specific, you said, hey,

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Speaker 2: would your parents do the podcast with us? And I said,

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Speaker 2: I think so, but let me ask, And then we

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Speaker 2: joked and my mom wanted to know what we were

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Speaker 2: going to ask her, and you assured her it was

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Speaker 2: going to be nothing that she didn't already know the

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Speaker 2: answer to. But I've never seen them more comfortable. I've

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Speaker 2: kind of forced them over the years wherever I've worked

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Speaker 2: to do certain things on camera, and of course it's

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Speaker 2: not the thing you do for a living. It's a

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Speaker 2: little jarring, and you kind of are overthinking what you

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Speaker 2: should do or what you should say. But I saw

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Speaker 2: them at their absolute most comfortable. Honest, I was impressed

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Speaker 2: by them. But what I was most impressed by was

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Speaker 2: not only everyone's reaction to them, but your reaction to

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Speaker 2: them specifically. I appreciate everyone, by the way, who wrote

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Speaker 2: in on Instagram or on social media just to say

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Speaker 2: kind things about them, because everything that you wrote is true.

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Speaker 2: They are a salt of the earth, wonderful, beautiful, pious,

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Speaker 2: hard working, earn like beyond, and just to see other

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Speaker 2: people recognize that made me so happy. But I also

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Speaker 2: told you you sat yesterday and started to speak. You

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Speaker 2: re listened to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: That was my first times it almost a week so

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Speaker 1: we recorded it. I didn't listen to it till almost

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Speaker 1: a week after we did it. It had already been out

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Speaker 1: there so yeah, I just as I was getting round

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Speaker 1: this decided to put it on and I was blown away.

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Speaker 2: And you came over really enthusiastically talking about how much

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Speaker 2: you appreciated my mom's honesty and her feistiness and her

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Speaker 2: humor and then my dad's quiet wisdom.

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Speaker 1: He nailed it every time.

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Speaker 2: And you said that, and honestly, like, I got tears

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Speaker 2: in my eyes seeing how much my man, my guy,

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Speaker 2: not only loves my parents but respects them and maybe

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Speaker 2: even more importantly likes them. And that has been huge.

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Speaker 2: But you know, that is a big deal. With potential

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Speaker 2: in laws or just family members of the people you love,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't always go that way.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I've liked hanging out with your parents

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Speaker 1: for years.

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Speaker 2: You have. You've always said that, And I've hung.

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Speaker 1: With your parents with you not around for years. You

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Speaker 1: have and almost preferred to hang out with your parents

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Speaker 1: when you're not around.

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Speaker 2: You've taken it a step too far. Okay, sorry, but

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Speaker 2: I genuinely felt so, Like, you know, it's like when

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Speaker 2: someone tells you they love your child, when you'd say that,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like it's like an extension

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Speaker 2: of you and that you have no control over to

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Speaker 2: a large degree, and when you came over and just

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Speaker 2: were genuinely because I let's just say this about you.

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Speaker 2: I think you can be honest here. You don't necessarily

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Speaker 2: like a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Does that sound so bad?

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Speaker 2: It's just you are discerning, you have You're very honest,

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Speaker 2: and it takes a lot, I think, for people to

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Speaker 2: impress you. It does.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying, I don't. I don't waste time trying

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Speaker 1: to fool somebody into thinking that I like them or

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Speaker 1: I want to spend time with them. This was a

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Speaker 1: lot of people said was to my detriment in media

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Speaker 1: and in big corporate in a big corporate world, I

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Speaker 1: never I've hung out. I've had bosses and presidents of

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Speaker 1: companies that I loved and hung out with as friends,

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Speaker 1: but never asked them to do anything for me. But

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Speaker 1: I've never been one to go kiss the ring or

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Speaker 1: try to make good with the boss just because. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: and to that way, discerning, I just if I like

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Speaker 1: you, you know it. If I don't like you, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to spend time with you. It's you might not

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Speaker 1: know it, but.

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Speaker 2: You probably do know it.

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Speaker 1: It's not because he's mean to me. It's because he's

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Speaker 1: he didn't show up, or he didn't call back, or

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Speaker 1: he didn't message back, or he did it's probably more so.

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Speaker 2: That I don't want that to be a negative because

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Speaker 2: one of the things I love about you is that

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Speaker 2: you are who you are. You don't put on airs,

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Speaker 2: you don't pretend you're the opposite of being a bullshit

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Speaker 2: or you are as real as they come. So in

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Speaker 2: a weird way, like because we were always friends, I

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Speaker 2: remember always feeling extra special because I knew you liked me,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, yay, he likes me, because you

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Speaker 2: know what when you do. But anyway, you came over

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Speaker 2: without them ever knowing or hearing or ever imagining that

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Speaker 2: I would say anything, but just I was so blown

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Speaker 2: away at your reaction to them and what they had

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Speaker 2: to say. So it was really it was really great.

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Speaker 1: So we left that podcast recorded with your parents. They

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Speaker 1: were here for the graduation now you all. We recorded

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Speaker 1: that at nine thirty in the morning that Thursday, and

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Speaker 1: I mean it was a rat race. After that. We

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Speaker 1: left the studio and we had to get set up

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Speaker 1: at your home to host about thirty people, and you

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Speaker 1: all had to leave for the graduation, which was at five,

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Speaker 1: but you all left plenty early. So I am left

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Speaker 1: at the house. There's no ice, there's no beer. There

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Speaker 1: was wine, but the food was coming. I had to

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Speaker 1: receive because I didn't actually go to the graduation at St. Patris.

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Speaker 2: We had a very limited number of tickets at Saint

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Speaker 2: Patt's because of the seating capacity.

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Speaker 1: Maybe, yes, so I am okay being the good boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: which is great. That's that's fine. Okay. Now when you left.

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Speaker 1: Before you left, that was a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: panic because you got that many people. You need ice, yep,

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Speaker 1: drinks to keep things cold. The last thing I've said

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Speaker 1: to you when you were trying to order things, I said, Baby,

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Speaker 1: order too much ice.

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Speaker 2: You said, whatever, you do, order more ice than you

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Speaker 2: think we need.

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Speaker 1: Whatever you think. It's like being at the movie theater

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Speaker 1: and they give you butter and you say, hey, when

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Speaker 1: you think you put too much, put some more butter on.

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Speaker 1: It was one of those things, Baby, order too much ice.

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Speaker 1: I can let ice melt, but if I don't have

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Speaker 1: enough ice, it's gonna be a problem.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: So you go to church for the graduation, yep, which

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Speaker 1: was at five. This was all we should look at it.

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Speaker 1: I assure it was the hottest, most humid day on

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Speaker 1: record in New York City this year.

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Speaker 2: It was crazy. I've not felt that kind of humidity

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Speaker 2: at all in maybe a year, like other than being

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Speaker 2: in New Orleans. It was that human.

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Speaker 1: There was that human. So they all go to the graduation.

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Speaker 1: They're sitting inside was the was the cathedral air condition.

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Speaker 2: It was lovely.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. So I am. I'm at the house. The

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Speaker 1: food comes. Wonder if we have enough. I'm sweating, y'all.

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Speaker 1: I'm literally in her home with sweatpants on and no shirt.

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Speaker 1: It's hots. Also my inside outside.

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Speaker 2: And my AC doesn't work so well in the back.

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Speaker 1: Though, yeah, but yeah, and even one in the front

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Speaker 1: unevenly does run.

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Speaker 2: It's a really New York City.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying, y'all is it was hot. The ice comes.

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Speaker 1: We have a cooler in this little outdoor area. The

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Speaker 1: ice comes for thirty people. There are one hundred cans

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Speaker 1: of beer and stuff that came. The ice isn't enough

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Speaker 1: to even fill up a third of the cooler. Whoops,

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Speaker 1: a third.

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Speaker 2: They were five pound bags, not twenty third.

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Speaker 1: Was called the cooler. So right, they're at the graduation.

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Speaker 1: I know they're going to be back at six thirty,

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Speaker 1: and people are going to start coming at seven thirty,

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Speaker 1: so it's five fifteen, five point thirty six o'clock. I

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Speaker 1: try to order ice Instacart and it says it can

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Speaker 1: be there between six fifteen and seven forty nine. Like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's cutting it too close. I gotta go get ice, yep,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of it. So this is what happens, y'all.

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Speaker 1: I do put on a.

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Speaker 2: Shirt at least before I leave, but you with sweatpants

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Speaker 2: and dress shoes.

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Speaker 1: Else I'm walking down in through Tribeca, y'all with sweatpants

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Speaker 1: and tasseled dress shoes, it's true, and a T shirt.

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Speaker 1: And I go to a seven eleven and I say, ma'am,

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Speaker 1: I need ten bags of ice, but I can only

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Speaker 1: carry about five on my own right now. Can I

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Speaker 1: pay you for them all? And then I'll come back

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Speaker 1: and make another trip. The lady says, you poor thing,

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Speaker 1: gives me a trash bag out from behind the counter,

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Speaker 1: says try this. I walk back with six bags two blocks.

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Speaker 2: In the heat like Sandy Claus.

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Speaker 1: Literally off me. I dumped that ice. I grab some

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Speaker 1: bags you have at the house. I go back to

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Speaker 1: seven eleven fill up with another. I think it was

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Speaker 1: twelve bags.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, while you're in church yep, and air conditioning.

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Speaker 1: You should be on fire.

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Speaker 2: But you know what's so sweet? He does all of this.

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Speaker 2: I come in, I don't know what he's been through,

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Speaker 2: and he doesn't tell me until the next day. He

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Speaker 2: was like, I didn't want to make you feel bad

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Speaker 2: or to worry about it, so I just did it.

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Speaker 2: I didn't say anything about it. He didn't say one

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Speaker 2: word until the next day.

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Speaker 1: The whole party took place that night. Nothing. But the

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Speaker 1: next morning she got up and I woke her up

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Speaker 1: like this, like rattling ice in earth. Hear that ice? Baby.

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Speaker 1: I got started to see.

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Speaker 2: There's a reason why we have an ice is what

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Speaker 2: it is. I was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 2: You're like, that's why I didn't tell you. That's why

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Speaker 2: I didn't tell you.

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Speaker 1: But it's all right. The party was great. I mentioned

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Speaker 1: at the time, I was partying. Yes, I was having

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Speaker 1: drinks in the kitchen and having conversation with your ex husband.

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Speaker 2: Yep, your first, yes, my first yes.

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Speaker 1: Ye're yes. At least the name is Dad was a

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Speaker 1: part of the festivity.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, their dad Tim and his wife Jess, who

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Speaker 2: they're both lovely people. They flew in from South Carolina

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Speaker 2: and so they were there and we were all in

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Speaker 2: this apartment together with my parents and by the way,

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Speaker 2: Sabine as well came in for the festivities and it

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Speaker 2: was beautiful. It went off without a hitch. I don't

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Speaker 2: think I've ever had a party where I've had so

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Speaker 2: many people I'd never met before, because it was parents

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Speaker 2: of other young women who were all there together, and

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Speaker 2: it really just was this beautiful and you you made

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Speaker 2: it perfect, so thank you. Thank you. Had ice in

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Speaker 2: their drinks and that was very important.

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Speaker 1: Every every michaelob Ultra was cold.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was indeed.

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Speaker 1: The other part. Look, we had a series of podcasts

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Speaker 1: here that kind of got I guess got on more

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Speaker 1: of a personal note, but it was back in March

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Speaker 1: we told you all with the last couple of episodes,

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Speaker 1: we had an event at Soho House here in New

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Speaker 1: York and it it went well and we've gotten great

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Speaker 1: feedback from you all as well about the episodes. But

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Speaker 1: that only came about because of a friend of ours.

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Speaker 1: Mortin Akachuku is his name. He's the head of a

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Speaker 1: company called what Works, but a friend somebody went to

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Speaker 1: college with, but a robot we connected with here, reconnected

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Speaker 1: with I guess this year and he was the one

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Speaker 1: that sat us down and saying, you know, what you

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Speaker 1: guys should do? And it was his idea and we

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Speaker 1: said no, he said, not that sounds crazy. First of all,

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Speaker 1: nobody's going to show up. Who the hell wants to

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Speaker 1: show up and listen to us say anything was our

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Speaker 1: first thing. He just shook his head like, you don't

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Speaker 1: even know, you don't even know, so it it was

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Speaker 1: not our idea. We want to give him credit for it,

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Speaker 1: but us complaint said nobody's going to show up. There's

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Speaker 1: no way in hell. And sure enough, when tickets were

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Speaker 1: made available, he sent me a note said tickets went up,

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Speaker 1: they were going in an hour. So all the tickets were

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Speaker 1: going an hour. We had a packed house, a lot

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Speaker 1: of standing room in the house. But it was a

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Speaker 1: big deal because we hadn't faced an audience in the

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Speaker 1: year and a half.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and we talked about it when we

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Speaker 2: first started. If you all listened to the first live

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Speaker 2: episode from the SOHO House, I mean, we were saying

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Speaker 2: we were nervous. But my god, here just to explain

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Speaker 2: just how nervous we were. I mean TJ was pacing

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Speaker 2: and our hands were shaking, like if you put our

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Speaker 2: hands out, they were shaking. We had not been in

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Speaker 2: front of people other than a few select folks, so

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Speaker 2: we knew we were safe with We had never opened

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Speaker 2: ourselves up to an audience. We didn't know who said

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Speaker 2: yes to the tickets, we didn't know who was there,

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Speaker 2: we didn't know who would ask us what questions, and

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Speaker 2: we knew we were opening ourselves up to being asked anything,

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Speaker 2: and we genuinely prepared ourselves for every the worst, yeah.

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Speaker 1: The worst. We actually had a discussion about security. I said, sweetheart,

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Speaker 1: if so and so one happens, if this happens and

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Speaker 1: we need to go here, I'm gonna grab you and

381
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Speaker 1: were We actually had that discussion.

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Speaker 2: And not to be dramatic, I mean, this is the truth.

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Speaker 2: I had multiple emails that involved death threats. When the

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Speaker 2: first pictures went up, people were so angry, not just

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Speaker 2: about what they said was behind our relationship, but just

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Speaker 2: the fact that we were an interracial couple. I had

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Speaker 2: some racial fueled, you know, hateful emails that actually went

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Speaker 2: into descriptions about how they were going to kill us both.

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Speaker 2: So yes, there was genuine like, I know those are

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Speaker 2: outliers and random folks, but you just can't not take

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Speaker 2: that seriously in those moments when you first put yourself

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Speaker 2: back out there in the public.

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Speaker 1: And we were in a position we walk into the room,

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Speaker 1: we didn't essentially see the room until they Martin introduced us.

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Speaker 1: Here's Am and TJ. And we walk in and we're

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Speaker 1: seeing the room for the first time. Lights were on us.

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Speaker 1: It was we actually still couldn't really see the audience.

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Speaker 1: We didn't know who was in there. We knew we

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Speaker 1: had family members in there, the girls were in there,

400
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,760
Speaker 1: we had friends in there, but we didn't know. But

401
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Speaker 1: it I can't tell you all and thank you all

402
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 1: enough for those who attended, but for those who received

403
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Speaker 1: the last couple of episodes of The Way You Have,

404
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Speaker 1: we appreciate it was a very big deal for us.

405
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,040
Speaker 1: It was cathartic for us, and it was a It

406
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,359
Speaker 1: was a way to turn a page in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways, and we appreciate it. So thank you all

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Speaker 1: for taking the time to listen. For those of you

409
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Speaker 1: all who showed up, and one person who showed up

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Speaker 1: that night, and I mean it it was we had

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Speaker 1: We've been asked a lot of questions. We've considered a

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Speaker 1: lot of questions over the past year and a half.

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Speaker 1: This was one we hadn't even thought about and it

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Speaker 1: it jumped out at us and it threw us off

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Speaker 1: at the time. But it was such a good feeling

416
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Speaker 1: to know that the person that was asking us this

417
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Speaker 1: question is somebody we had no idea it was going

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Speaker 1: to be in the room, and who was kind of

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Speaker 1: somebody from our past to a certain degree that we

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Speaker 1: had worked with more specifically. But to know that this

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Speaker 1: person that showed up meant a lot, I think, and I

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Speaker 1: have no thing I've talked about this with you. To

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Speaker 1: know that Justice, Justice is a name showed up. It

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Speaker 1: was kind of a wow moment for me and it

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Speaker 1: actually put me at great ease when Justice stood up

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Speaker 1: and asked the question. But I have it right that

427
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Speaker 1: we felt the same. The question that Justice asked was.

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Speaker 1: It threw us like wow. I never thought about it

429
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Speaker 1: that way.

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Speaker 2: It was an amazing question and we didn't know. I

431
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Speaker 2: hadn't And it took you, I think, a second to

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Speaker 2: put two and two together. Who was asking the question

433
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Speaker 2: because again bright lights on us, we see someone stand

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Speaker 2: up and ask this question, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: you say, justice is that you justice? But it was

436
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 2: remarkable because yes, he made a parallel that I hadn't

437
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 2: even considered. Because if you all have listened to the

438
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 2: last two episodes, you'll know that our theme was shame

439
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 2: and shedding shame but acknowledging it all the same because

440
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 2: we're all in different ways go through it, but specifically

441
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 2: about relationships and then figuring out how to hold your

442
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 2: head up high, figuring out how to own your truth,

443
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 2: own your story, and not take on shame, especially when

444
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 2: it's coming from other people. And he made the parallel

445
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 2: between the LGBTQ plus community understanding exactly what that's like.

446
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 2: And I had never even thought about it from that perspective.

447
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 1: I even thought it was unfair to make a parallel sometimes,

448
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: like that's not fair. You're going into your unique thing

449
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 1: and there's no reason to find but it is there.

450
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: I think there's some solace, even in some comfort, in

451
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,959
Speaker 1: making those parallels. But Justice is at NYU grad a filmmaker,

452
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: actor writer here in New York, and I got to

453
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: know justice for the first time when we had Justice

454
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 1: on as a guest conversation between black men and something

455
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: we did at Good Morning America. Justice was a part

456
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 1: of that panel discussion. And someone who lights up a

457
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 1: room when they walk in and you call justice at

458
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 1: the end that night, you coined it, and you're one

459
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: hundred percent right. What did you call justice? At the

460
00:21:59,280 --> 00:21:59,719
Speaker 1: end of that night?

461
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: He looked to me and sounded to me like a

462
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: black angel, and that black.

463
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: Angel is with us. Now, Justice, say something. Make sure

464
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: now she sets you up. So whatever comes out of

465
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: your mouth now needs to sound very black and angelic.

466
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 4: Oh you want something that's on mute? Yeah?

467
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 2: Nothing, you know what, I love it.

468
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: I love it.

469
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 2: We all like that's just perfect. Actually, you know, we're

470
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 2: all imperfectly perfect. So there you go. Whoops, mute on

471
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 2: mute Justice.

472
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: How are you doing.

473
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 4: I'm good? How are you guys? Thank you for having me?

474
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: Oh please, this is an absolute pleasure. I think maybe

475
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: even that night at the SOHO house we talked about

476
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: like we got to get you on. I you know what,

477
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 1: it was Robot more so than anything, say we've got

478
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: to get Justice on. And I can I start first

479
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: with pronouns. Your pronouns yeah, you go want to go

480
00:22:58,840 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: by our what.

481
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 4: I think as like identity.

482
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 5: Culture has become more and more like a parent and

483
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 5: kind of more incorporated in our culture. I start to

484
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 5: feel a little bit more pressure to like pick one

485
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 5: and pick a pronoun and like.

486
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 4: Kind of hold everyone to it.

487
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 5: But for me, I kind of think of pronouns for

488
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 5: myself as a like reflection of like my relationship with people.

489
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 5: And I am always kind of in this fluid space

490
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 5: of you know, like I'm going to the gym and

491
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 5: I'm putting my snapback on and and like my sweaty pants,

492
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 5: and like, I know that I look like a guy

493
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 5: during this moment, and I'm not gonna probably like I'm

494
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 5: not gonna get mad at someone says, hey, dude, what's up,

495
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 5: because I know they're at least talking to me and

496
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 5: at least want to connect with me. One thing that

497
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 5: I also try to use for myself is like I

498
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 5: think the best thing you can always do is call

499
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,239
Speaker 5: someone by their name to like to them, you know,

500
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 5: and like people, that's people's favorite word. Also, you know,

501
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 5: like people love hearing their name, so like you could

502
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 5: never go wrong by being like hi Jacob or Hi Emily,

503
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 5: like they're always going to be fine with that, you know.

504
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 5: But also I also really I was doing a lot

505
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 5: reflecting when I was hearing your Getting Ready Today's story, Amy,

506
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 5: because I was like, oh my god, Like for me,

507
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 5: I've been learning that feminine is so much about like work.

508
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 5: There's so much work to be feminine, like being person

509
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 5: that a person that was born male. It's like, oh

510
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 5: my god, Like that is almost like what the feminine

511
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 5: essence is. It's like continue it. Like in the Western society,

512
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 5: it's like and like putting something on and keeping that together.

513
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 5: And you know, like even today it's like the minimal

514
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 5: amount of makeup I have on and YadA YadA is

515
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 5: like it still has to be placed right.

516
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 2: You know.

517
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 5: And I thought about it, you know, and even when

518
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 5: I like go out and people might think, oh, that

519
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 5: could be a girl, like that took a lot of work.

520
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 4: And I think all women are doing that, you know

521
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 4: what I mean. I feel like all women are doing it.

522
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 4: Like yes, we act like it's just.

523
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 5: Like trans people or queer people getting themselves up. I'm like, no,

524
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 5: everyone is doing this.

525
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 2: Yes, we None of us walk up like this, none of.

526
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 5: Us, none of us looked like this. You know, and

527
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 5: so we're all putting it on.

528
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's funny.

529
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 2: I'm so happy you can relate to that. That's just

530
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 2: many stories. I know.

531
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 4: I'm like the amount of like I don't know, just

532
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 4: like shirts.

533
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 5: Sometimes I'm just like, I don't know why I decided

534
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 5: to wear this because I can barely move, you know,

535
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 5: like I like I can't move in this dress or whatever.

536
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh, like you.

537
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: Basically walk out each day saying how much discomfort can

538
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 2: I tolerate to look like this? And then that's the

539
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: decision exactly exactly, And guys are like, then what?

540
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 4: And then sometimes I.

541
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 5: Think that about it, like you look so good and

542
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh my god, yeah.

543
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 4: It was worth it.

544
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: But I was totally worth it.

545
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 5: I Like it's a word that I'm like, oh my god,

546
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 5: I've been pain pain, had to toe pains.

547
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 2: What was it like being you growing up in Nebraska?

548
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: Did you see other people like you? Did you feel

549
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 2: out of place? Did you feel like you were able

550
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: to become the full version of you there?

551
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 5: I think I became a full version of myself Part one.

552
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 5: I think about that a lot, and I've learned to

553
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 5: not necessarily resent Nebraska because it does give me peace

554
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,479
Speaker 5: and solace in times where like, you know, I've been

555
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 5: in New York for.

556
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 4: Almost eight years now, I think it's seven.

557
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 5: But like when you're in the middle of everything, it's

558
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 5: time sometimes nice to be in.

559
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 4: The middle of nowhere.

560
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 5: And with growing up in Boystown and growing up in Omaha,

561
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 5: I think I learned something that is really important, Like

562
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 5: I learned the importance of like brotherly love and as

563
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 5: a person that loves men and has queer relationships. I

564
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 5: feel very lucky that I felt that I had like

565
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,239
Speaker 5: a community as a child, and now that community has

566
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 5: shifted and change. But I was never I always felt protected,

567
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 5: you know, because I had like eight older brothers, you know,

568
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 5: who were like, well, if you talk about justice, we're

569
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 5: ready to fight you.

570
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: You know. So but when was that for you? What

571
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: age was it for you that you knew something that

572
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: you were starting to realize and recognize how you felt

573
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: it might have been different from some of the other boys.

574
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: And then what is your we always ask, right, what

575
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: was your coming out story with your family and friends?

576
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 4: Yeah?

577
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 5: So I think for me, like I've always been who

578
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 5: I am, and I think actually more and more now

579
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 5: I'm getting back to that person. My mom tells the

580
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 5: story of me watching like Glenn closes one hundred and

581
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 5: whatever Dalmatians and me like getting like a blanket and

582
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 5: like doing the whole performance as Crello Deville.

583
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 4: You know, I was like full performance, foul drag.

584
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 5: Crello Deville, like three and it was just like and

585
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 5: I was just like, that's it.

586
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: So you started your villain earrow way back.

587
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 5: Then, oh, way back then. Like I knew, I knew

588
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 5: who I was meant to be. I knew I was

589
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 5: meant to be a villainous woman and that and that

590
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 5: is you know, I'm working towards that every.

591
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 4: Day, you know.

592
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 5: So, but yeah, I think my coming out story was

593
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 5: I'm it's always evolving. Like I came out as gay

594
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 5: my freshman year of college. There was this boy that

595
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 5: I had like this really cute summer romance with that

596
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 5: was also from Omaha, and I just like was like, well,

597
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 5: I'm actually doing gay things, so I should.

598
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 4: Come out as gay.

599
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 5: Like you know, like at first, I was like, I'm

600
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 5: I don't know if I'm gay because I didn't do

601
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 5: gay things.

602
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 4: When I was like, I'm doing.

603
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 5: Gay things now, so that I'm gay, you know, and

604
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 5: then over my time in Nebra, I mean in New York,

605
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 5: I started understand gender and kind of understanding that sexuality

606
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 5: is different than gender, and you know, kind of opening

607
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 5: that range up and now kind of like continuously coming

608
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 5: now in different ways. I guess, you know, it's like

609
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 5: I'm always I feel like I'm always shifting, I'm always changing,

610
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 5: and uh, but why is that?

611
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: What's the shift and change? You seem so the whole

612
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: time I've known you. It's only been a couple of

613
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: years now, but you always seem to be comfortable in

614
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: your own skin with who you are, never hiding anything. Again,

615
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: maybe it was the relationship we had, maybe it was

616
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: the environment that we had, but you sound like you're

617
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: still there's still some evolution of justice that's taking place.

618
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, you know, I think it is the comfortability.

619
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 5: I think like when we always connect, I feel like safe,

620
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 5: you know, And I appreciate that from you. But I

621
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 5: think I also grow. I'm also want to And I

622
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 5: moved to New York at seventeen. I went to a

623
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 5: space that I went to, a bubble that like allowed

624
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 5: me to be comfortable. I like went to NYU and

625
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 5: like it was like, oh yeah, like everyone's gay. Like

626
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 5: it was just like like it was just like, so

627
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 5: what are you gonna do? Like do you want to

628
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 5: go to Brooklyn? Do you want to see this drag show?

629
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 5: Do you want to go to I mean, you want

630
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 5: to go to this party?

631
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 4: Like it was just like.

632
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 2: Just as it's so funny. So you know, my daughter

633
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: is about to be a senior at NYU, and she

634
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: was actually just telling us about the drag and Playhouse.

635
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've been there, but she was

636
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: at playhouse last night and with telling me all about

637
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: the drag show and how she got pulled up on stage.

638
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 2: And so when you said everybody's like this at NYU,

639
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: I'm laughing because you're not wrong.

640
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 5: No, I'm like like and then there's the bubble, but

641
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 5: then you know, like you have to leave the bubble

642
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 5: and like something to come back here. I'm like, oh,

643
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 5: like I am different and you have to just I

644
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 5: don't know, maybe I'm also delusional or like I sometimes

645
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 5: have that feel like I actually live in a little

646
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 5: bit of delusion where like if I don't have like

647
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 5: this radical optimism around, like self confidence and believing in

648
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 5: myself and believing in other marginalized people like I would

649
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 5: just have like crippling anxiety and just fall apart.

650
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 4: So it's like I have to choose it.

651
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 2: To the point, Justice, I have a question, are there places?

652
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: Have there been places where you don't feel safe being you?

653
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 5: Yeah? Of course, like I've felt unsafe in I think

654
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 5: my high school. I remember my high school right before

655
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 5: I left for college was twenty sixteen, and like the

656
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 5: whole like beginning of the Trump thing, and I was

657
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 5: just like friends were turning on me and family, friends

658
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 5: were turning on my family, and it was more honestly

659
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 5: racial than anything. This is just my my my life.

660
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 5: I felt more optracized race wise than queer wise, because

661
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 5: even within the queer community, like we can't deny like

662
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 5: there's like rampant racism, you know, like the queer community has,

663
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 5: especially with like white gay men, they have this very

664
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 5: fascist perspectives. They have their own kind of like like

665
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 5: you have to look like this and you will like it.

666
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 5: There's a lot of dynamics and that can review apart.

667
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: So wait, did that right, Justice, that you you you

668
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: feel more racism within the LGBTQ plus community than you

669
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: do as essentially in the community as a whole, do

670
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: you feel more racism? No, okay, not as a.

671
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 4: Whole, but I feel like it's equal.

672
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 5: I wouldn't pay that it's more, but I do feel

673
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 5: like it's definitely equal. And the thing is, is that

674
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 5: also the scary. One of my mentors last night this

675
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 5: to me, who was actually one of my professors, is

676
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 5: that it's really scary when people who have power or

677
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 5: privileged think they're innocent. And I thought about that and

678
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, yeah, you're right, and like I

679
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 5: think specifically with like white gayness, it creates this like, oh,

680
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 5: but I'm not a white straight man.

681
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 4: You know, I'm innocent.

682
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 5: And then it's like, so I can fetishize black men,

683
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 5: I can adopt these these like ideals around like beauty

684
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 5: and that is, but I am innocent because I'm also marginalized.

685
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask, I want to go back to

686
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: the SOHO House event again. We didn't know you were

687
00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: going to be there, and I hadn't talked to you

688
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: since I don't think I had since you come on

689
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,479
Speaker 1: for again conversations with black men special that we did.

690
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: You though, got up at the SOHO House event and

691
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: there were two moments that night. Yours was one of

692
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: them that put us at ease in such a way

693
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: that we couldn't ever have planned. But the first moment

694
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: was when I had actually told a friend of mine

695
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: who was a big time producer we love and respect

696
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: about the event, and she said, at the end of

697
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: that event, whatever you guys do, you need to make

698
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: sure those people just want to get up and embrace you,

699
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: like put just hug you. You got to make sure

700
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: how have you come across. Make sure you don't say, oh,

701
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: we were done wrong, and make sure you don't go

702
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: out there and do all that hooton and holland you

703
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: go out there and you explain yourselves and you talk

704
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: and you be sincere and they should want to put

705
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: their arms around you. And sure enough, when we got

706
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: done with our talk and we opened it up to questions,

707
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: one of the first things that happened is you said.

708
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: She announced herself as a.

709
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 2: I'm a Jewish mom, Yeah, Jewish mom, and she said,

710
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: the first thing I want to do right now to

711
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 2: both of you is give you a hug. And I

712
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 2: looked at TJ because he had told me. I was like,

713
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: oh my god, that was amazing, Like that's exactly what

714
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,959
Speaker 2: you know. We were hoping there would be some level

715
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 2: of connectivity. And we're not playing the victim card. We're

716
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 2: not saying poor us. We're just all sharing an experience

717
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 2: that everyone can understand, which is that feeling of shame.

718
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 2: And that was what we were hoping to do, just

719
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 2: to connect. So anyway, yes, she stood up, Tej, you

720
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,919
Speaker 2: got off the stage and you gave her a big

721
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: old hug, and I just thought, oh my goodness, this

722
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: is this is perfect the moment, but.

723
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: Then moment too, just this was when you stood up

724
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: and we didn't couldn't lay eyes on you because again

725
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: the audience was dark. We had the lights on us.

726
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: I still couldn't see you. But when you said, you

727
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: gotta be fucking kidding me, he's in here, and you

728
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: asked the question that we had not considered. He said,

729
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: do you all feel some kind of connection parallels with

730
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: the lgbt Q plus community with the idea of your love,

731
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: your relationship not being accepted. Do you feel some kind

732
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: of shame because it's for some reason your relationship is

733
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: looked at as one that is not accepted, And we

734
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: had never considered that before. So if you can help

735
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: us here for a moment. We haven't talked about it

736
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: that much, but that question, where did that question come from?

737
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: And what did you see? Again, we hadn't talked, but

738
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: I guess you'd seen the past year and a half

739
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: what she and I had been going through. But where

740
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: did that question come from?

741
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 5: I think it came from really just like I think

742
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 5: seeing what had happened over the past year and a

743
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:55,439
Speaker 5: half and feeling solidarity there and feeling that frustration and

744
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 5: feeling frustration that kind of I have with my own

745
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 5: relationships and not feeling that they're validated. I just really

746
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 5: felt you guys, And I was like, oh, this is

747
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 5: kind of that. I was like, oh, there's there's like

748
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 5: in that moment. I was like, Oh, that's the connection.

749
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 5: Like I didn't know why I was so un I

750
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 5: was like, so I felt so weird about it, but

751
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 5: I was like, Oh, that's the connection because queer people

752
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 5: are constantly like attacked for the way that they love

753
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 5: and there's so many like stigmas around that, and uh.

754
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

755
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 5: And I was also there on a date too, and

756
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 5: my date was like kept like whispering to me and

757
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 5: saying like, oh, I think this this feels like very

758
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 5: queer in a weird way, and I was like, yeah,

759
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 5: I think so. Like They're like, yeah, like we this

760
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 5: is like what we do all the time. And I

761
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 5: was like, yeah, you're right, like that is the feeling

762
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 5: that there's like a continuous fight, you know, for love,

763
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 5: and and they were there, Lido shout out to you

764
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 5: was like was like.

765
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: Or as he was known that night, the white Man.

766
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 2: My white Day, but nobody. It was so incredible because

767
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 2: I started thinking about it. You know, I know in

768
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 2: New York it probably mostly feels like a safe space

769
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: to hold hands with the person you're with, or just

770
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 2: to walk down the street in a loving way with

771
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 2: someone who you're with proudly with your head held up high.

772
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 2: That isn't something that just comes naturally or easily, I

773
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 2: would imagine, because you're thinking, everyone walking down the street

774
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: is judging me, Everyone walking down the street is thinking

775
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 2: I'm not okay with that. And so it a light

776
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 2: bulb went off for both of us when you put

777
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 2: it like that, because I never imagined I had never

778
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 2: known what that felt like, and yet suddenly we felt like,

779
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: you know, should we hold hands, should we walk down

780
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 2: the street together? Is it okay? If we give each

781
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 2: other a peck or you know, a loving kiss or whatever,

782
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: because it's I say, as he kisses my shoulder. But

783
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 2: there was a dilemma that I had never felt that

784
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: you all live with. I'm assuming most days, yes.

785
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 5: And I think it's also surveillance, right, It's like two

786
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 5: different types of surveillance. Like queer people are continuously surveiled,

787
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 5: and there is this like all these different viewpoints trying

788
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 5: to find the thing that is out of place, right,

789
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 5: And you guys also came from a different kind of

790
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 5: form of surveillance that had to do with you guys

791
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 5: being actually on like media and on camera, and so

792
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 5: you were already being surveiled and then you guys decided

793
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 5: to like live authentically within that surveillance and surveillance don't

794
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 5: like that like that like like surveillance does not like

795
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 5: you stepping out of place. It's kind of like that

796
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 5: big brother thing, you know, it's like, oh, what are

797
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 5: they doing? You know, like we did to go for them,

798
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 5: And yeah, it's very interesting.

799
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: I just have a couple of more things here for you,

800
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: one of them having to do with something you said

801
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: and you talk about surveillance, and you talked about we've

802
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: been talking about shame here, and I was embarrassed. You

803
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: explained it at the event, the so Who Else event,

804
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: But I had no idea that when you were brought

805
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: on and when the producers brought on as a guests,

806
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: I had no idea that you were asked to kind

807
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: of uh and you know, I will, I'll let you

808
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: say it the right way, but kind of tamp down,

809
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: to dumb down, to not be sow this or sow

810
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: that for the camera and for the sake of the

811
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: of the conversation. I had no idea about that until

812
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: you told me at the SOHO House event, and I

813
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: was embarrassed and hurt that that even came your way.

814
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: I guess that's maybe not It wasn't a surprise to you,

815
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: But can you explain you're you're asked to come on

816
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: and again to everybody? It was called Conversations with Black Men.

817
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: I was hosting this roundtable. I had one guy who

818
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: was kind of an entertainment guy had an activist, and

819
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: I had we had Justice and Justice was supposed to

820
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: represent a certain segment of black manhood and you came

821
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: on Justice. What was it you were trying to explain

822
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: to us that the producers were explaining to you how

823
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: to be when you got on the air.

824
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, thank you so much. I think with going

825
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 5: on conversation with the Black with Black Men, I knew

826
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 5: that I had to be fought.

827
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 4: For to be there.

828
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 5: I knew that my perspective was like being like, I

829
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 5: knew that people were fighting for me to be there

830
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 5: because I don't think it was like a normal thought.

831
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 4: To have someone like me on that panel. And also

832
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 4: I did feel pressure to.

833
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 5: Like conform, and I think it was just like this

834
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 5: double surveillance again that happened, where like the surveillance of

835
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 5: knowing I'm a queer person here, but then there's also

836
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 5: the surveillance of like Disney and ABC and knowing like, oh,

837
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 5: like I am, I'm not Disney. I have to create

838
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 5: this version of me that is palpable and like stays

839
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 5: close to the status WHOA. It was just like hey,

840
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 5: like stay, don't go too far, you know, And that is.

841
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 2: You were told not to be too much of yourself.

842
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't go too far. Yeah, but I think.

843
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 2: How did you feel? How did you feel when the

844
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: producer said that to you?

845
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 5: The truth is I'm also like kind of used to

846
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 5: it though, Like I know that sounds wild, but like

847
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 5: I'm kind of used to it, and I kind of

848
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 5: already like read between the lines and figure out like,

849
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 5: oh yeah, like I am probably one of the first

850
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 5: people like me to be here sometimes like I understand that,

851
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 5: like I'm already kind of creeping into something that is.

852
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 4: Uh like uncharted territory for someone like me.

853
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: I'm actually surprised, is it someone said don't be yourself?

854
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 2: Because you know, we're always talking to people, were saying, hey,

855
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: be yourself, like for you know, answer questions honestly. But

856
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 2: to know that you're telling someone don't be too much

857
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: of yourself or don't be it's almost like saying, don't

858
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: be too queer, don't be too black, don't haven't you

859
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 2: been told? Know what I'm saying.

860
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: No, No, you just you nailed it. I'm good by

861
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. Get it soon as you said that.

862
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: That does everything else. I get it now. But I

863
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 1: felt bad and I apologize because I obviously missed something.

864
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure you were comfortable. I remember

865
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 1: you came in. You were a little shy. I mean,

866
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: you were the one that didn't have as much I

867
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: guess on camera experience or TV experience, certainly new experience

868
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: like that. I was actually making an argument that I

869
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 1: wanted you to sit closer to me on set because

870
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: you were kind of more of the quiet. I say,

871
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: I need good physical proximity to maybe be able to

872
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: talk to justice, make sure justice is open and comfortable.

873
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: You were on the end, which ended up working, and

874
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: you were great for that panel discussion. But I was

875
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 1: good going out of my way to try to make

876
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: sure you were comfortable, not realizing that I was battling

877
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: my own show team that was trying to get you

878
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: to be something else. So for that I missed and

879
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: I apologized, but it was just it was so I mean,

880
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 1: it was so wonderful to hear you at the Sawhouse event.

881
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: You stood up and said you remembered, and you recalled

882
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: how I tried to make you feel comfortable. I had

883
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: no idea if I'd ever see you again the rest

884
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: of my life, and I'm just sometimes we get it right,

885
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: and maybe Mama Rays is right. And I was trying

886
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: to make you as comfortable as possible. So that meant

887
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: a lot that you stood up and said.

888
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 5: That, yeah, it was great, like it might be things

889
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 5: that are kind of going out of styles like the

890
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 5: media training.

891
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 2: Thing or like yeah, that's help, you know.

892
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 4: It's like.

893
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 5: And I feel lucky that I'm kind of in that

894
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 5: space where those things are falling apart because people want

895
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 5: to see the real versions of people within media, like

896
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 5: as an artist, like I don't have to always bite

897
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 5: my tongue. But the truth is is that, like I

898
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 5: do know that there will be moments in the future

899
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 5: that I will have to weigh those two things like, hey,

900
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 5: do you want to be Do you want to really

901
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 5: say that right now?

902
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 4: Or do you want to plan to seed and.

903
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:38,439
Speaker 5: Grow and move forward within your own career and things

904
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 5: that you want and then you can come back and

905
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 5: be like all right here.

906
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: It is just it's so interesting hearing you say that,

907
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 2: because yes, TJ just said, that's very mature of you

908
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 2: to not be immediately offended and say this is me,

909
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: take it or leave it, because you actually have a

910
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 2: goal to win the hearts and minds of folks who

911
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 2: want to put people in certain categories and say, ah, see,

912
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: that's why I don't like them because they say this,

913
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 2: that or the other. But I wonder, after having had

914
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: the experience you had and getting a little bit older.

915
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 2: If approached and told to do the same thing, would

916
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: you comply or would you say I appreciate what you're saying,

917
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna be me, Like do you feel like

918
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 2: now you might be more willing to say what you

919
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 2: really feel versus let someone tell you to water yourself down.

920
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:29,439
Speaker 5: I think what I would have done is I would

921
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 5: have been like, okay, cool, like I get it, but

922
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 5: then I would have just done it anyway.

923
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I like that, do you.

924
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 5: Know what I mean? I think that's kind of what

925
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 5: I would have done. I would have been like okay, cool, yeah, but.

926
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 4: Like just done it anyway.

927
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 5: Like personally, for me, I am still learning to be more.

928
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 4: Steady within myself.

929
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 5: I am still learning to like take up space and

930
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 5: not always be you know, like sunshine and rainbows. You know,

931
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 5: like even the thing you're like, oh, justice like lights

932
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 5: up a room, and I think that is also a

933
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 5: defense mechanism.

934
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 2: Wow, toxic positivity is that what it's called. I think

935
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 2: that's what my daughter told me.

936
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like it's like, oh, like I half light

937
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 5: up the room or I'm gonna be the villain or

938
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 5: they're gonna find out I'm the villain lady.

939
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 4: You know what I mean. You know what I mean.

940
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 5: They're gonna find out that I'm plenty somewhere or like

941
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 5: I am you know, I have like I am stressed,

942
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 5: and I'm not always happy, and I have anxiety, and

943
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,479
Speaker 5: I am depressed and all these different things. We're gonna

944
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 5: find that out if I don't beam. So I need

945
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 5: to beam being beam.

946
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: You know, And sorry, man, we need you to. I

947
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: was like, I can't wait to talk to Justice. Justice

948
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: got so much good great. We don't want to hear

949
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 1: justice for us.

950
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 5: I know, I know, but it's true, you know what

951
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 5: I think. But I think that is often a thing

952
00:49:58,280 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 5: with marginalized people.

953
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: It's like we have to you know, excellent time and

954
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: have a bad dame. Yeah, yeah, well, Tila, you you

955
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: meant and I mentioned at the top here, but you

956
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: are You're a You're a filmmaker. You're on film. Okay,

957
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 1: I think it's two maybe three. Notes on a Siren

958
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: is your latest that came out this year. But this

959
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: is the second of the third helped.

960
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 5: Me of my films. Yeah, this is kind of this

961
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 5: is like kind of my second. But I've done some

962
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 5: like commissioned films, for like between like for like Calvin

963
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 5: Klein and MTV.

964
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: But Notes on a Siren is the latest one and

965
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: it keeps everywhere I read it calls it a video essay.

966
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: Is that an accurate accurate description of it?

967
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a video essay. It's uh.

968
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:56,280
Speaker 5: Me really like turning the camera back on myself again.

969
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 5: Like I also went to school tiss for acting for

970
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 5: two years and I was like, I need to I

971
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 5: want to see more stories that incorporate me in the

972
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 5: ways that I want to be incorporated. And I was like,

973
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 5: I guess I have to do that for myself, and

974
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 5: so I kind of got swooped away in the filmmaking

975
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 5: of it all, and Notes on a Siren is my

976
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 5: reintroduction into being on camera and looking at actually how

977
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 5: the camera does transform us and like what does that

978
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:36,240
Speaker 5: surveillance make us into? And like for me, I found

979
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 5: I with the mockumentary and kind of this whole thing

980
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 5: we've created with that film is it made me into

981
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 5: this possessed siren creature.

982
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 4: By the end of the.

983
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,439
Speaker 1: Movie, Well you gotta watch it. I mean, whatever you're doing,

984
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: you take it. It's fourteen minutes or something, a short film, right, Yeah, Okay, yeah, yeah,

985
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: I watched it, and I saw more of Justice than I.

986
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 2: Than I.

987
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: Yes, I watched You said you watched it, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

988
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 4: You know, and it was bold, you know. It was

989
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 4: my first movie was like literally like Black Disney.

990
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 2: You know.

991
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 4: It was like Patter.

992
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 5: Raise a black Boy, Little Boys in the Woods, everything

993
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 5: so beautiful. But this is just like, I don't know,

994
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 5: it's like, you know what, I want to be a

995
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 5: bit more honest and push myself and have and not

996
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 5: be confined, you know, and like that's really it.

997
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: Like I was like, all right, you were not confined

998
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 1: in this, uh, this film at all. It's called Notes

999
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: on a Siren. It might as well be called notes

1000
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: on My Naked Black ass' it's it's.

1001
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 4: My naked black ass.

1002
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: Play with that title, would you want?

1003
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1004
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 5: I think I'm also like, I'm like, what else am

1005
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 5: I going to be able to be naked on screen

1006
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 5: like that?

1007
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: I mean, definitely do it in your twenty So I

1008
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 2: think that's a really that was a good call on

1009
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 2: your part. Go ahead and do it when you're at

1010
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 2: your finest.

1011
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 5: Yes, I was like, we're gonna preserve this on tell you, Lloyd,

1012
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:24,479
Speaker 5: it's gonna be there, and you know that's that.

1013
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: On that and again I'm laughing that we joke about it.

1014
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: That is not what the film is. Yes, there's a

1015
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: moment of expression in the front, the mirror and the

1016
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: whole thing you're going through, but it is kind of

1017
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: a trip, a journey you take people on, and it

1018
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 1: is artistic and it is really cool. It's not something

1019
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: that I would have naturally probably gravitated towards if somebody

1020
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: just randomly told me about it, but obviously I checked

1021
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 1: it out because of you. But it clearly shows talent

1022
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: and it's cool and it's it's fun to watch, and

1023
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: I think everybody should check it out. It's called Notes.

1024
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 2: On a Siren Well Justice, Thank you so much. I

1025
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 2: can't wait to see what's to come, because you are

1026
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 2: just beginning and you are finding your voice and through

1027
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: art and it's just beautiful. And just the fact that

1028
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 2: you were able to stand up you touched us, You

1029
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 2: touched everyone in that room, and you're going to continue

1030
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 2: to do that in so many ways, I know, through

1031
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 2: your art and through just being you and feeling that freedom,

1032
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 2: that shameless freedom to be yourself. So thank you. You inspire us,

1033
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 2: and we hope everyone listening was inspired by you as well.

1034
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 5: Thank you, you guys inspire me as well. I'm so

1035
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 5: thankful and yeah, thanks for having me.

1036
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, Justine, love you, brother Bankes. You tell you, folks,

1037
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: we said hello, the family said hello, and we will

1038
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 1: see you back here in New York.

1039
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 4: All right, Okay, love you guys too.

1040
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: All right, folks, that is absolutely one of our favorite

1041
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 1: people that we've got the chance to spend time with

1042
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 1: over the past a year and a half for a

1043
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: lot of reasons. But we will be seeing justice here

1044
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 1: in studio, and folks, we again appreciate you so much,

1045
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 1: those of you showed up at the Soho House event

1046
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: and those of you who were hearing from and it

1047
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 1: has sparked an idea in US, and we give our

1048
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: friend Martin credit for coming up with the idea of

1049
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: the Soho House event. But we are getting request and

1050
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 1: we are putting together a potential plan to maybe come

1051
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: to a city near you, not a city near you,

1052
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 1: your cities. A lot of people says city.

1053
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 2: Or year you. I guess it's maybe saying that we're

1054
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 2: going to go to some of the bigger cities. And

1055
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 2: so yes, we are kind of putting a list together

1056
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 2: of the cities that we would like to maybe initially

1057
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: start with see what the receptionist see. If you all

1058
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 2: are enjoying coming to see us live on stage, it's fun,

1059
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 2: it's exciting. Anything can happen. You can ask us anything.

1060
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 2: That's the other cool part. We love the idea of

1061
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 2: opening it up to questions. It worked out well in

1062
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 2: New York, so we hope the same would be said.

1063
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 2: But I know we already have a few cities in mind.

1064
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's something else that we are considering it again.

1065
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: And we appreciate you all for embracing us, and we

1066
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: might be in a city right around the corner from

1067
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: you very very soon, So folks, thank you so much.

1068
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,280
Speaker 1: Of course, you can always find us on our Instagram

1069
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: at Amy and TJ Podcast. Now we'll see you soon.